#just tell me if ud like me to change this!

[strangeswift]

.

[conflictofthemind]

Take Me To Church-Gate

A few weeks back, I received a tip that Noah and Finn came into Atlanta for a couple of days to rehearse a scene alone together that never ended up being filmed. This was around the time of the convention that Finn ended up missing in early June (and we initially theorized was for the playground scenes).

I since received confirmation of not only this, but that the rehearsal in question was for a scene at the UD church set. The filming never went through because Noah got an eye infection / sty, so the shoot was rescheduled for early August. If you've seen me mentioning looking forward to August, this is what that was about.

The Eye Infection:

Let me link this post to begin with, barring the 'James' stuff who has proven to be false. I heard about the eye infection and my alarm bells rang immediately - I have a friend myself who wears contacts occasionally and whenever they get sties, they're always caused by the contacts. When has Noah worn contacts before in the show? When Will is being possessed by the mindflayer in Season 2.

The church is an interesting location, because it most definitely has to do with Henry as well. When the original countdown for TFS was being posted, there were images of a church - a location that may have been changed during development. The characters most likely go there as part of the continuing Henry investigation.

And we know Henry was exorcised at some point, but it failed. The sign going into the church is also a likely clue to this, referencing Mark 9:29 - a verse about a failed exorcism.

Conclusion for this part: Will very likely becomes possessed again while in this church. My source tells me they usually only do big rehearsals like this for scenes involving action, too.

My opinion is that Will was never fully exorcised either. I mean, he still has a clear connection to the mindflayer with all the tingles on his neck and the possible literal psychic connection he has to Vecna as well.

It's Byler, Too:

I suspect that Jamie has some part in the scene as well (given they scheduled it during his latest block on set), but the focus is on Will and Mike - being the only two other main characters on set at the time, and the only two rehearsing.

But going back to the church thing.... I wonder what kind of symbolism is created by bringing two gay characters who both have a lot of internalized shame into a location that is honestly the source of said shame? It's honestly not even symbolism. It might just be referenced in plain text. Looking back at that church sign:

"This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer"

"This kind" really evokes the dehumanising language used by homophobes to refer to gay people. And the driven out by prayer part, well that really evokes conversion 'therapy' practices of praying the gay away. So what if this is where Will and Mike finally admit their love for each other, and kiss. And what if that is actually what's able to drive the 'demon' away - gay love.

Especially during the Satanic Panic arc we are sure to see come full circle with the reckoning of the Hellfire Club in Season 5.

An arc which Mike is surely at the centre of as well, being not only a Hellfire Member in the past, but being family to the new disappeared child in town.

And it's not like Mike's love is what's been shown to us time and time again as the way to break Will out of his mindflayer trance. Oh, wait.

Consider it incredibly fanfic-y, but it's on the table now. An action scene at the church involving Byler where Noah is wearing contacts - Will becoming possessed just like Henry again and being made to fight Mike as not only part of the plan to get all of the Wheelers, but also as something that would break Will's spirit permanently. They're all alone with nobody to help save Mike. But the plan is thwarted through the power of love, and in a place that represents a lot of shame for gay men (especially in the 80s) - they finally come together. And it is love that frees Will from his trance. Whether through a confession or true love's kiss. It would be so dramatic and atmospheric.

Additional evidence:

Jopper's Season 4 reunion and kiss inside the Russian church, of which this would be a parallel.

The whole idea of "we kissed, as though nothing could fall. And the shame was on the other side" from David Bowie's Heroes - the shame being in the actual church from the rightside up, but they're alone together on the other side / in the Upside Down.

It is also very likely that this scene is from Episode 5 or 6. I've asked and nobody seems to know which episode it is from, but following the logic of Episode 4 being when the characters enter in groups into the Upside Down, and here Byler are all alone, it is definitely after some time has passed and groups have split further. They're definitely not having any kind of confession in the first half of the season, so this timing sounds positive.

Multiple rehearsals. Noah contacting his acting coach recently for advice. Them even having to cancel an entire shoot because of a sty indicates close-up shots for sure.

Anyway. I'd really love to see people's thoughts on this. I feel like there's even more I could get into in follow-up posts, especially if other people chime in with their thoughts. I have been buzzing about this scene for weeks now. I want to start another gate for old time's sake, so please use #churchgate if you want to make your own posts about this!

[alexging]

dating sean diaz hcs pt 2

- before esteban fixed up a car for sean, u guys would always take the public bus around seattle

- his favorite dates r the ones where u guys go into random small stores and thrift shops

- both of u guys cackle REALLY LOUD at tacky shirts with stupid sayings and get looks from people 😭

- ur fav thing is to go “i found something ud like” and watch sean look up from the racks in excitement to see an overly patriotic shirt that says “don’t touch my truck”

- his face drops into a frown and he picks out something 10x uglier and say it looks like something ud wear

- sean secretly buys what u say is cute but u cant afford bc thrifting is so expensive for no reason these days

- “guess what i got” and he slithers it out of his bag with an evil smile 😭 suddenly him dissing u for an hour straight doesnt even matter anymore

- once esteban texts sean for dinner u guys hop on the bus back home. he never asks sean to come home for dinner alone though! common courtesy to invite the gf

- sharing wired earbuds on the bus ride home always. sean plays little love songs bc he only listens to music that he relates to in that specific moment 😭 corny but cute. he def has songs in his head that he thinks are ur guys’ songs and plays them every chance he gets

- when u first started eating with the diaz family it was so painfully awkward

- though he kind of likes it now, he did not want his girlfriend to get to know esteban or daniel too well LMAO he didnt want to be embarrassed by anything they possibly could say

- still, even when he tried so hard to avoid it, daniel and esteban still found their ways

- estebans the kind of dad to bring up embarrassing stories about sean when he was a kid bc he KNOWS how much his son would hate it

- “y’know (y/n), im surprised seanie boy over here even managed to get a girlfriend in the first place”

- “why is that, mr. diaz?”

- “i remember he thought girls couldn’t poop until he was in middle school! i had to break the news for him—he was in denial for weeks. his voice was shaking when i told him and everything!” u can see sean pause mid-chew in the corner of his eye 😭 “and please, call me esteban”

- you just awkwardly nodded and tried to not bust out laughing. sean notices and kicks u under the table which makes u ACTUALLY bust out laughing

- esteban and daniel knew from there u were one to be trusted

- “i bet (y/n) doesn’t poop” daniel randomly said when u left that night. seans immediately swiveled his head around 😭

- just like with lyla, daniel seemed to have a crush on u as well. the only difference is that sean tries to shut it down REALLY quick.

- “she shits all the time. sometimes i wipe her ass for her bc she shits so much”

- daniel’s “eww…” is like music to his ears

- u always playfully punch him when he does this in front of u and ask why he makes u look bad in front of him

- sean never admits its bc hes jealous of a little kid 😭 he just changes the subject and kisses u bc he thinks hes sneaky

- over the summer he randomly got a buzz and didnt say anything to anybody

- he just opened his front door standing there bald as if nothing happened and ur eyes wld just kind of widen

- u wld eventually tell him it looks good tho bc it DOES he pulls it off so well

- that summer u wld always randomly start feeling his head because the texture is so interesting

- it got to the point where hed just sit on the floor in front of wherever u were so ud get to feel his freshly mowed head

- he always ends up dozing off bc its so comforting and u wld feel his head pressed on ur inner leg.

- u also get the privilege of cutting/buzzing his hair 😋

- sean doesnt trust himself so u guys sit for 40 mins watching a brad mondo video before u start going ape on his hair

- he gets kind of nervous when u get close to his face and does that thing where u switch between a persons right eye and left eye while smiling awkwardly 😭

- surprisingly it turns out good!

- i feel like ud be super nit-picky on ur work, thinking its total ass. he wld just say its perfect over and over again

- he always stares at any reflective surface and smiles like a dork in front of it. even if u did do a shit job, he probably wouldnt notice or care all that much bc he loves blindly ❤️

im on winter break so i get to be cringe and free for endless hours thank u to like the 3 other people who also like sean diaz. u r all real ones

[henrysglock]

Finally, More NINA Puzzle Pieces

DISTRESSED NOISES!! WE GOT NINA CRUMBS!! AND IT'S DRIVING ME INSANE!!

IT HAS THE CAMERA!!! AT LEAST ONE VERSION OF REALITY HAS THE CAMERA!!!!!

Okay so remember when I pointed this out about the NINA discrepancies in El's 4.05 entrance, and how there were at least 22 different iterations of events?

Specifically this glaring difference between reality (tapes) and the rest of the 4.05 entrance (labeled 3 and 8)?

The presence of a camera in a UD-ified version of HNL tells us that the bottom row of images straight up cannot physically exist in one cohesive reality.

Which is to say—Anything that does not have the camera is 100%, definitely, concretely not based in the UD's reality/those versions without the camera are either fake or set in a different reality.

If you've been following along this past year and a half, this is not news to you; it's just confirmation of what we already knew.

It does, however, means that none of this was based in reality:

We already kind of knew that, based on the props changing so much within the Rainbow Room each time/Henry's changing hair/etc, but the confirmation goes crazy insane. We love to see it.

After the first entrance to NINA/after we see the footage of the version with the camera, we don't see a non-camera version again. Any non-camera versions seem to disappear. This means whatever simulation El's stuck in, it's adaptive. It learns, with a propensity for making itself immersive by molding itself to to the subject's understanding of reality.

However, what fucks me up is that all of these are, then, set in the same "reality":

Which means the new ST5 UD-ified HNL, the physical camera footage of 1979, Henry's electrocution, Blood Hands El, El running to the Rainbow Room, and Brenner running to the Rainbow Room are all supposedly set in "reality".

That's not possible, though. The electrocution scene cannot have existed in reality/could not possibly be a memory, because 14 year old El is barely tall enough to see in. 1979 El would not have been tall enough to have seen interaction:

This means that none of NINA is reliable. Period. Even the things that appear to be set in reality are unreliable re: what actually happened in 1979.

Whatever NINA runs on, it's adaptive and manipulative. It's like c.ai, if c.ai was actually AI. Whatever it is, it takes El's experiences both in the lab and outside the lab and combines them to form entirely new scenarios that never really happened (see: Blade Runner 2049 and the manipulated/mash-up memories shenanigans). El has been told she's reliving memories. That is not the case. None of what she's seeing is reliable. It's like when a movie says it's based on a true story.

This fits with what I said about the monologue never having existed at all and NINA being an immersive empathogenic drug trip that pulls from El's outside memories. It also fits with my draft about the Mindflayer ties between Shadow-NINA in the VR, TFS, and NINA in ST4, and my speculation in that same draft about a) NINA specifically running on the Mindflayer, and b) the Mindflayer using familiar humanoid avatars to gain sympathy and coerce its target into joining it.

We see this kind of behavior in Patty in her garnering sympathy from Henry and then insisting that she and Henry run away together to find her mother in the Stardust Casino...regardless of the fact that Henry is still flayed. We see it again in our "Couldn't Possibly Exist" Henry as he garners sympathy from El and then tells El to join him. And then we see it again in Shadow Brenner using the NINA-like maze to learn about Henry as a means to try and coerce him into joining him. It's a continuing theme.

Both Patty and "Henry" want Henry and El, respectively, to accept their offer and leave with them. Both Henry and El reject that offer in exactly the same way:

In my speculative opinion, we see a resurgence of this particular dual-yeeting in Billy and Heather.

Henry in the VR, as we know, has a dubious ending re: escaping the simulation.

This exists in contrast to the other version of NINA Henry, who, much like TFS Henry with Patty, is insistent that El run away without him.

When I say that we have multiple guys, this is what I mean. Their motivations are entirely different. One of these men in NINA is not Henry. It's someone or something masquerading as him. If I had to speculate, I would say that it stems from the Mindflayer and its possible presence in NINA...Especially given the similarities between NINA and the Russian prison, wherein they have a trapped form of the Mindflayer:

In short—Every day it seems more likely that whatever El fought in the massacre was not Henry. It's like I said way way back last year: there's someone else in there with her. Multiple someone-elses, even.

It also seems, if I had to speculate, that rejecting the Mindflayer avatar is what gives El her powers back. This means it may also be what "changed" about One, as mentioned in the plinko scene.

This all also backs what I speculated way back in the day about the blood transfusions being related to immunity against the Mindflayer, either finding it, triggering it, or building it. It seems to function like getting a live vaccine: you're given dose of the live virus, and your body fights it off. In fighting off the Mindflayer, it's entirely possible that the process triggers latent powers in those who have them. Those who don't have the basis for latent powers eventually succumb (see: Will, Billy, the Flayed). Brenner, with NINA, may have been giving El the equivalent of a booster shot.

[carigm]

A BREAKDOWN OF THE POTENTIAL S5 EPISODE TITLES!!

Okay, so today entertainment journalist Jeff Sneider shared some alleged insider info about S5 of ST, mainly directors and titles of the first 6 episodes.

Here’s a screenshot

It’s important to keep in mind that this guy isn’t always the most reliable, and considering he also said he believes S5 could come out before the end of this year, let’s not take any of this too seriously. (Many cast members have mentioned they’re filming until December of this year so that’s literally impossible). The information about the possible directors I believe is correct, because it’s been circulating around from other sources too.

The episode titles I’m less convinced about because it’s also possible the Duffers could’ve put out fake episode titles in case they leaked. I remember for S2 all the episodes titles they announced were changed later on lol. But for the sake of fun, here’s an analysis of all of them:

1. The crawl (only confirmed title) is a very broad, open title. It personally makes me think of the UD and vines, or maybe even the idea of Vecna crawling back to life. Could also be an allusion to the military.

2. The Vanishing of ___ Wheeler is arguably the most insane one. The journalist said he wasn’t revealing the actual name of the person because it’s a spoiler ofc. My gut tells me it’s gonna be Holly, mainly because of the recast and her supposedly being involved in the hospital plot, which we have guessed takes place in episode 2. Could explain why she’s suddenly “more important” this season, especially if she’s used as a plot device of sorts. Could also tie into what Ted’s actor said in a podcast back in February about the first episodes being a rollercoaster of emotions, and that comment he made about Ted having a soft spot for Holly. It would be a perfect tie in for Karen to find out about the UD as well. The implications of naming the episode the same as the first episode, which is so intrinsically tied to Will, is very interesting. It’s also a new connection/tie between the Byers/Wheelers that I assume will bring the families closer together. I don’t think it’s about Mike because I doubt he’ll go missing in ep.2, or be dragged to the UD just like Will was. It would be an interesting concept but I doubt it. I also don’t think Nancy’s gonna go missing. Karen could be interesting but I doubt it as well. Ted would be an incredibly funny choice. Imagine he just goes missing while at the house 😭 Nonetheless, I think Holly is the clear choice here, and I do very much worry for her if she goes missing. Mainly because while Will survived this, I’m not sure they’ll do the same for Holly :(

It also ties into Vecna’s threat to Nancy against her and her family.

Here’s an interesting leak from the same anon that leaked the hospital stuff (which seems to be correct)

I think this could be the very same scene Holly goes missing.

3. Turbow Trap 😭 This one is utter nonsense. I have no idea what a Turbow is, so I assume it’s gonna be a code or nickname for something. Absolutely clueless here.

4. Sorcerer is incredibly interesting, and imo a clear allusion to Will. His D&D character being a cleric, basically a wizard. Could also be a reference to Vecna imo. Or both 😉

5. Shock Jock is clearly tied to the radio station plotline. Imo the title could be a reference to Steve, Jonathan, or even Murray (he fits that eccentric, somewhat annoying personality quite well) In case you guys don’t know a shock jock is like a very eccentric radio host.

6. Escape from Camazotz is another crazy title. He’s a figure from Mayan mythology who’s a bat spirit. That immediately makes me think of Eddie, but also Steve ofc. However, camazotz has a larger meaning that goes beyond “bat spirit”, it’s also a representation of death and night. So the title seems to be alluding to someone escaping from death or a perilous situation.

Even more interesting perhaps is that kamazotz is a name of a planet in A Wrinkle Time. It’s the planet where IT resides, the mind controlling antagonist of the narrative. So I guess in this comparison Kamazotz is the UD, and IT is Henry.

[just-my-latest-hyperfixation]

Sleep with one eye open

Written for the @steddiemicrofic challenge, February 2024 edition

Prompt: egde, 509 words

Rated: M

Tags: Post S4; sleep paralysis; monsters, nightmares; canon character death; monster Eddie Munson; Kas!Eddie Munson; body horror; blood and gore; biting; open ending

It starts as always, on the edge between sleeping and waking. 

One moment, Steve drifts on the first tendrils of dreams. The next, he plummets back into his body, eyes wide open in the dark of his bedroom. Every fiber of his being is on alert, every instinct screaming, but he can't move. 

Another one, then. 

He's had them for as long as he can remember, these waking nightmares. The only thing that keeps changing is the monster.

When he was a kid, it was a gangly shadow with no face and too many limbs. As he learned about the horrors lurking under Hawkins, it became a hulking beast with claws and a flowered maw. 

He's understood long ago that it's all in his head. The best thing he can do is keep calm, even as his heart tries to crawl out of his heaving chest. It will keep its distance then, just lurking in the corner of the room.

He's good at it. 

And then spring break happened and the monster morphed into something else again.

Ever since the day he stumbled through the portal, dragging a wailing Dustin behind him, his monster has taken a new shape. 

He was only a figure at the far end of the room at first. Steve still recognized him, even with the changes. 

Dark curls matted with blood haloing a sickly pale face. Clothes torn to shreds. Graying skin hanging from the festering hole in his jaw. 

Steve kept calm, drawing and releasing one breath at a time, telling himself that this wasn't real. He wasn't really here, just a figment of his grief and guilt. He fell back asleep to glinting black eyes watching him. 

He has been back almost every night since then. 

And he's been coming closer. 

This time, when Steve's eyes fly open, he is perched directly on top of him. Clawed hands bracketing his face, too-long legs straddling his thighs. The smell of the other place hits him like a bucket of rot and decay. 

Breathe. 

Relax.

The monster tilts its head, lips peeling back in a bizarre mockery of the smile he knew. Its hair falls around him like a curtain as it leans in. 

Relax, it's not real. 

One of those hands reaches out to run down his face, along the curve of his jaw. Its touch is cold and clammy and almost tender. 

It's not him. 

Except, he can pretend, if he wants to … right? 

Pretend those eyes are just a shade lighter, dark brown and warm instead of dead, black pits. 

Pretend the noise bubbling from that throat is a rumbly chuckle rather than a snarl. 

Pretend he doesn't see the fangs in that mouth as it leans down to nuzzle at his pulse. 

He's good at pretending. 

So good that the growl it lets out as it sinks its fangs into his flesh sounds a bit like words, even. 

“Miss me, big boy?” 

As Steve's world turns red, he begins to suspect that this may be no dream after all.

Listen, he doesn’t kill him. He just takes him to the UD and keeps him as his personal chew toy or whatever, it's fiiiine!

[pizzaqueen]

Steve Harrington time stamps

For when you just want to watch Steve’s scenes

I had the idea to do this during my current rewatch thanks to @harmonictechnicality (who was very happy for me to post this) and then @al-ghoul sent me his timestamps so a HUGE thank you there!

Oh, and @faequeentitania has a supercut of all of Eddie's scenes (link is in their bio) so I didn’t add Eddie’s time stamps to this post

My original intention was to not post this until it was completely done, but I honestly don't have much energy right now, so there are only time stamps up to S04E05. But I do intend to finish it one day! (If anyone wants to help out with the remaining ones, that would be great.) You can also see where the formatting changes and that's where I stopped typing up my notes and just used what @al-ghoul sent me, but I do want to reformat it so it's uniform, and add in songs used for his scenes, but I just wanted to get this out there

And I want to say sorry if someone has already done something like this in the meantime! I tried searching but Tumblr search isn't great

SEASON ONE

Chapter One: The Vanishing of Will Byers

14:54 - 16:07 Steve’s first appearance in his rendezvous with Nancy in the bathroom

37:59 - 38:42 Mike sees Steve trying to climb through Nancy’s window

41:04 - 43:12 helping Nancy study

Chapter Two: The Weirdo on Maple Street

12:26 - 14:04 asking Nancy to the party at his house (mention of his parents); the scene cuts to Nancy and Jonathan at 13:20 but you can still see Steve in the background until 14:04

38:17 - 38:37 opening the door for Nancy and Barb (song: Raise a Little Hell by Trooper*)

43:06 - 45:39 pool scene with the drinking, etc., with Tommy H, Carol, Nancy and Barb (song: I Melt With You by Modern English)

49:18 - 49:40 drying off and going upstairs

50:22 - 51:18 we see Steve and Nancy through the window from Jonathan’s POV then it cuts to inside Steve’s room

52:36 - 52:50 getting hot and heavy with Nancy (song: tiniest snippet of the opening strains of Hazy Shade of Winter by The Bangles)

*seems to be playing inside Steve’s house because it’s muffled and gets louder when he opens the doors

Chapter Three: Holly, Jolly

00:40 - 1:50 sleeping with Nancy, intercut with Barb being killed (song: Waiting for a Girl Like You by Foreigner)

3:03 - 3:50 Nancy tries to wake Steve, then leaves

10:16 - 11:11 at Nancy’s locker

20:48 - 21:56 cafeteria with Tommy H, Carol and Nancy

30:07 - 32:16 confronting Jonathan about photos

36:01 - 36:43 waiting for the game in the hallway with Tommy H, Carol and Nancy; Nancy leaves

Chapter Four: The Body

13:16 - 14:30 meeting Nancy between buildings; asks her not to tell the cops about the beer (mention of parents)

Chapter Five: The Flea and the Acrobat

25:47 - 27:51 Steve shows up at Nancy’s to say sorry and invite her to the movies (mention of parents; song: Steve singing a bit of Old Time Rock and Roll)

Chapter Six: The Monster

3:29 - 4:45 driving to Nancy’s with Tommy H and Carol; sees Jonathan and Nancy on bed through window (song: Sunglasses at Night by Corey Hart*)

30:46 - 33:18 alley fight with Jonathan

* playing on the car stereo

Chapter Seven: The Bathtub

14:21 - 16:00 Tommy brings Steve a can of Coke and painkillers; Steve has fight with Tommy and Carol then drives off

18:40 - 19:21 offers to help scrub graffiti off cinema marquee

Chapter Eight: The Upside Down

14:42 - 17:03 comes to Jonathan’s to say sorry; gets introduced to the upside down shenanigans

18:53 - 22:00 Nancy gives Steve an out; he runs, then he comes back (it cuts to Hopper and Joyce at 21:18 for a couple of seconds)

22:27 - 23:50 following the lights with Nancy and Jonathan that Joyce and Hopper are lighting up as they go through the UD version (intercut with scenes of Joyce and Hopper)

48:01 - 48:24 epilogue snuggling on couch with Nancy in Christmas sweater

SEASON TWO

Chapter One: Madmax

12:13 - 14:02 Nancy looking over Steve’s essay in the car outside the school (song: Talking in Your Sleep by The Romantics)

20:09 - 20:38 waiting by the corner in the hallway to pick Nancy up and twirl her around by the lockers

31:38 - 33:50 dinner with Nancy at Barb’s parents

Chapter Two: Trick or Treat, Freak

15:58 - 19:22 studying in the library with Nancy/Steve is worried about the government if they talk too much about what happened and suggests going to party and pretend everything is normal (between 17:15 to 17:36 it cuts to Nancy thinking she sees Barb)

31:23 - 32:17 Tommy H and Billy come over while Steve is with Nancy at the party; Tommy H: “We’ve got a new keg king, Harrington.” (Song: Shout at the Devil by Mötley Crüe)

42:03 - 44:14 dancing with Nancy (song Girls on Film by Duran Duran)/spills drink on her/bathroom ‘bullshit’ scene

Chapter Three: The Pollywog

19:11 - 21:14 playing basketball against Billy (Song: Go! By Tones on Tail) and talking with Nancy between the buildings

Chapter Four: Will the Wise

16:23 - 17:53 basketball again (Song: Scarface (Push it to the Limit) from Scarface) and the shower scene with Tommy H and Billy

Chapter Five: Dig Dug

35:17 - 35:52 shows up to Nancy’s with flowers and is waylaid by Dustin

Chapter Six: The Spy

00:51 - 3:43 In car with Dustin (song: Hammer to Fall by Queen*) going to kill Dart with bat

12:39 - 13:06 bringing meat with Dustin

24:51 - 27:34 laying trap for Dart with Dustin (meat on the railroad tracks) and talking about girls

31:48 - 32:37 at the junkyard with Dustin

33:10 - 33:21 at the junkyard with Dustin, Lucas and Max

35:27 - 35:38 fortifying the bus/setting stuff up at the junkyard

35:49 - 36:02 pouring gasoline

36:48 - 37:01 going into the bus

37:44 - 38:24 inside the bus; flicking the lighter

40:46 - 45:06 demodogs appear; Steve goes out as bait/to fight them

* playing on the car stereo

Chapter Seven: The Lost Sister

Doesn’t appear in this episode

Chapter Eight: The Mind Flayer

08:35 - 10:33 walking from the junk yard with kids at night, looking for Dart on the train tracks

13:27 - 13:56 in front of Hawkins lab; meet up with Nancy and Jonathan

15:15 - 15:45 in front of the lab

16:15 - 16:21 gate opens

21:58 - 22:22 waiting at gate; Hopper picks them up

23:06 - 23:42 at the Byers’

24:43 - 29:03 in Byers’ kitchen; Steve is in and out of the frame/sometimes in the background

29:23 - 29:55 duct-taping the shed with Nancy

31:51 - 32:07 finishing the shed with everyone

33:05 - 33:10 practicing with a bat at Byers'

34:32 - 34:35 blinking lights at Byers’

38:52 - 39:16 morse code

40:31 - 40:56 “close gate”

41:31 - 41:37 hearing demodogs

42:15 - 44:34 preparing to fight/El arrives

S02E09:

00:07:23 Steve (at Byers with everyone) (00:08:03)

00:09:08 Steve (at Byers backyard with Nancy) (00:10:02)

00:10:50 Steve (on the Byers porch with kids) (00:11:06)

00:15:22 Steve (putting demodog in the fridge) (00:15:57)

00:16:17 Steve (at the Byers with the kids / Billy arrives) (00:19:09)

00:19:47 Steve (fighting Billy) (00:21:02)

00:24:41 Steve (waking up in the car with Max) (00:25:54)

00:26:43 Steve (arriving to the tunnels) (00:28:17)

00:30:00 Steve (at the tunnels) (00:31:42)

00:33:40 Steve (torching the tunnels while Will burns) (00:34:43)

00:36:52 Steve (running through the tunnels) (00:36:59)

00:38:00 Steve (freeing Mike / meeting Dart) (00:39:38)

00:40:16 Steve (running out of the tunnels) (00:41:19)

00:43:40 Steve (gate closed) (00:43:44)

00:45:19 Steve (at the Barb's funeral) (00:45:27)

00:48:51 Steve (driving Dustin to the Snow Ball) (songs: Love is a Battlefield by Pat Benatar and Twist of Fate by Olivia Newton-John*) (00:50:10)

*both are playing inside the Snow Ball Edit: actually the Pat Benatar song seems to be coming from his car on re-watching 😅 it definitely sounded like from inside the building to me before but now it doesn’t

--------------------------------------------------------

S03E01:

00:09:15 Steve (letting the kids through Scoops Ahoy back door) (00:09:40)

00:10:46 Steve (lights go out) (00:11:01)

00:12:12 Steve (lights go back) (00:12:18)

00:24:42 Steve (Scoops Ahoy with Robin, hitting on ladies) (00:26:46)

S03E02:

00:10:15 Steve (Scoops Ahoy with Dustin) (00:12:34)

00:17:52 Steve (translating Russian with Dustin) (00:19:24)

00:35:27 Steve (Robin translated first Russian) (00:35:54)

00:41:26 Steve (mall after hours with Robin and Dustin) (00:43:37)

S03E03:

00:17:23 Steve (spying for spies in the mall with Dustin) (00:19:19)

00:27:12 Steve (found a sport fitness "spy" with Dustin) song: Wake Me Up Before you Go-Go by Wham!* (00:28:32)

00:29:20 Steve (with Dustin returning to Scoop Ahoy) (00:29:26)

00:30:03 Steve (Robin cracked the code) (00:30:12)

00:39:20 Steve (in the rain looking at delivery) (00:40:30)

*playing in the jazzercise class

S03E04:

00:09:04 Steve (Scoops Ahoy, devising a plan) 00:10:08

00:21:14 Steve (Robin brings Starcourt blueprints) (00:22:58)

00:24:32 Steve (bringing Erica into the plan) (00:25:11)

00:34:51 Steve (Erica goes into the vent) (00:35:05)

00:36:22 Steve (Erica got to the room) (00:37:00)

00:40:28 Steve (opening the boxes with the team Scoops) (00:42:08)

S03E05:

00:00:07 Steve (the elevator room falling) (00:01:58)

00:16:25 Steve (stuck in / getting out of the elevator room) (00:19:46)

00:25:19 Steve (walking the tunnel) (00:27:16)

00:34:40 Steve (finding the russian base / fighting the guard) (00:37:01)

00:37:21 Steve (Robin found The Machine) (00:38:21)

S03E06:

00:00:14 Steve (being apprehended by russians) (00:01:48)

00:17:12 Steve (being beaten up / questioned by the russians) (00:20:21)

00:31:06 Steve (tied to a chair with Robin) (00:35:58)

00:45:25 Steve (truth serum kicks in / Dustin saves them) (00:48:50)

S03E07:

00:06:31 Steve (Dustin is driving away through the tunnel / elevator) (00:08:45)

00:13:13 Steve (running from the mall guards into the cinema) (00:14:04)

00:14:30-32 / 00:14:41-44 (tweedldee and tweedledum in the cinema)

00:23:19 Steve (drunk with Robin in the cinema hallway) (00:25:08)

00:28:27 Steve (confesses Robin in the cinema restroom) (00:35:02)

00:39:07 Steve (sneaking out of the restroom) (00:40:03)

00:48:50 Steve (hiding from mall guards under the counter) (00:49:16)

00:49:41 Steve (El defeated the guards) (00:50:51)

00:51:09-14 Steve (El collapses)

S03E08:

00:00:36 Steve (Eleven's fucked up leg) 00:01:25

00:02:50 Steve (El pulls the Flayer out of the leg) (00:03:16)

00:04:28 Steve (everyone is catching up on things) (00:05:11)

00:06:34 Steve (hanging around while everyone prepares) (00:06:43)

00:07:40 Steve (driving away from the mall) (00:08:10)

00:13:32 Steve (driving kids to the radio hill) (00:14:42)

00:17:50 Steve (on the radio hill) (00:18:19)

00:24:19 Steve (on the radio hill, Flayer attacks Starcourt) (00:25:12)

00:26:03 Steve (on the radio hill running back to the car) (00:26:14)

00:32:54 Steve (hitting Billy's car at Starcourt, Nancy's driving away) 00:33:35

00:34:39 Steve (Flayer pursues the car, Suzie appears) (00:34:50)

00:35:49-53 Steve (in the car while Dustin sings over the radio)

00:36:28-31 Steve (in the car while Dustin and Suzie both singing)

00:38:04 Steve (in the car while Flayer goes back to Starcourt)

00:42:29-34 Steve (throwing fireworks at the Flayer in the mall)

00:43:03-04 Steve (keeps throwing)

00:44:16-22 Steve (on the radio with Dustin)

00:50:33 Steve (Flayer disassembles) (00:50:43)

00:54:58-01 Steve (at the ER car in the background)

00:56:44 Steve (arriving with Robin at the Family Video for a job) (00:58:04)

00:58:55 Steve (bumping into the cardboard figure) (00:59:12)

--------------------------------------------------------

S04E01:

00:15:24 Steve (in car with Robin) (00:16:58)

00:54:43 Steve (with Brenda at basketball game) (00:56:24)

S04E02:

00:07:56 Steve (at Family Video with Robin) (00:09:49)

00:28:13 Steve (at Family Video with Max & Dustin) (00:29:06)

00:44:58 Steve (at Family Video flirting / searching for Rick) (00:47:43)

01:01:45 Steve/Eddie (at Reefer Rick's) (01:06:14)

01:07:22 Eddie, Steve (talks about Chrissy / Vecna revealed) (01:12:30)

S04E03:

00:12:28 Eddie, Steve (receiving supplies at Rick's) (00:14:23)

00:15:14 Steve (at Fred's crime scene) (00:15:29)

00:25:29 Steve (with kids and Nancy discussing Vecna) (00:28:12)

00:38:21 Steve (outside shrink's house in the car) (00:39:28)

00:41:22 Steve (driving away from the shrink) (00:41:33)

00:42:00 Steve (driving the car while Lucas radioes) (00:42:43)

00:50:53 Steve (breaking into school shrink's office at night) (00:51:38)

00:55:54 Steve (at the shrink's office) (00:56:53)

S04E04:

00:02:09 Steve (school after Max's episode, Nancy and Robin arrive) (00:04:50)

00:07:29 Steve (the Wheeler's house - Max writes letters, Nancy and Robin arrive) (00:10:44)

00:17:35 Steve (Max finished the letters, wants to go) (00:20:04)

00:31:33 Steve (driving Max to the trailer park) (00:31:53)

00:34:35-49 Steve (Max returns to the car)

00:48:17 Steve (driving Max to the cemetery) (00:49:00)

01:02:32 Steve (going for Max at the cemetery) (01:03:04)

01:03:17 Steve (trying to wake Max up) (01:03:35)

01:04:58-07 Steve (with Dustin and Lucas trying to wake Max up)

01:09:01-12 Steve (Dustin brings music to Max)

01:10:45 Steve (everyone searching for the tape) (01:11:06)

01:11:50-00 Steve (Max flies)

01:13:43 Steve (Max is out) (01:14:14)

S04E05:

00:14:32 Steve (sleeping in Wheeler's basement) (00:14:38)

00:36:19 Steve (arriving at Creel's house with everyone) (00:40:06)

00:49:55 Steve (checking Creel's house with DNR) (00:52:36)

[pinkeoni]

Peter Pan Parallels: Is The Upside Down Neverland?

Lately I've been thinking about Petergate and I came up with what possibly could be another angle to the already complicated Peter situation— what if the name Peter is a reference to Peter Pan?

I don't think this is the only reason that the name Peter becomes prominent, although the show itself does seem to contain other references to Peter Pan, and even creates a correlation between the Upside Down and Neverland.

Peter Pan as a character has origins in early works from author J.M. Barrie, and the Peter Pan story as known today originated in a play written by Barrie before being adapted into a book and subsequently several film adaptations. The story of course being about a young boy named Peter who brings some kids to a magical land where they can never grow old.

It's written very small, but Peter Pan is on the season 4 DNA board!

There are a few instances about never growing old in the show, and they usually come from Will or involve Will.

The first instance is from season 3 during the rain fight, where Mike exclaims that they "aren't kids anymore" and they can't "play games for the rest of their lives." This is then brought up again by Will in season 4, but in a much more hopeful lens.

And then we have the Upside Down, a magical land that appears to be somewhat stuck in time.

I say "somewhat" because I'm honestly unsure if the UD actually frozen in time, or if there is just an impression of Hawkins the night that Will was taken. However, the emphasis this season on clocks as well as Nancy's mention of being in the past does at least allude to the idea of being frozen in time.

Does the UD actually function like Neverland and keep someone from aging? Will was only trapped in there for a week, not enough time to see if there was any anti-aging going on. Henry was in there for a few years, however since he changed so much physically it's hard to tell if he aged at all (and given that he was in his 30s, any aging wouldn't have been very apparent)

ALTHOUGH there could be a point to be made about the fact that Will and Henry were both able to survive in the Upside Down for as long as they did in the first place, maybe it has to do with both of their powers, but perhaps the UD was preventing them from dying?

Starting with Will, we know that he was in the UD for a week without any food or water. The body can survive that long without food, but water is another thing. The show makes a point to have Erica say this in season 3:

—which leads me to believe that they want to draw attention to the fact that Will was miraculously able to survive for so long in a place without any water. Perhaps the UD was able to keep him alive?

Something similar happens with Henry, too. It seems like his body was adapting to the new environment overtime, but still the details of his survival are vague and his ability to stay alive after all that time is still rather anomalous to say the least.

There's an indirect reference to the UD as Neverland in season one, when Troy states that "Will is in fairyland now with all the other little fairies." and while YES he means this in a derogatory way, the dialogue is still a way to point at the fact that Will really is in a magical land, and possibly even a hint at his powers.

Notice as well how Will's light magic bares a resemblance to pixie dust from the Disney movie.

Between Henry and Will, we can see both of them as being Peter Pan-like. Henry as Peter as in the one who lures children into his magical fantasy land, or Will as Peter the boy who doesn't want to/has trouble growing up.

Another aspect of Peter Pan is his shadow, which is detachable and seems to have a mind of its own. Which reminds me a lot of this:

Barrie's intentions behind what the shadow represents is pretty vague, although it has been tied to the idea of wholeness, Peter's attachment to the human world as well as duality, wholeness, and lightness within dark and darkness within light. (more to come later)

[castleclerics]

winning, losing, timelines, and tying these ideas into the end of the show.

first this is insane:

both lucas and el waking up to someone telling them the same thing

and lucas coming out of the "WINNERS ONLY" door literally

and lucas and el both being "benchwarmers" then winning big out of nowhere. but then they don't really "win" bc el is still in the "circle" that brenner drew for her and doesn't want her to leave (making el go through a simulation of what didn't actually happen etc.) and lucas walks out and is disappointed to see the party after a dnd match instead of his game.

and then lucas being the imposter with the basketball team by pretending to be one of them the whole time/being the only one dressed differently. like el in nina pretending everything happened the way it did/her in lenora lying about what's happening and pretending everything is fine.

lucas here is similar to el wanting to fit in in the lab/lenora

?????? things to be different ???? now we have that chance ???? oh like el in nina ??? in a timeline that isn't the one the current el we are watching is from???? or like just shifting timelines in general in this show maybe in s5???? also i already was thinking about the possibility that brenner put el in nina to literally change the past/to combine timelines like maybe el doing what she did in nina had an effect on reality itself like i think that would be super interesting.

also "skip tonight" ?? "how much time did you skip?" like

also erica says "i'm 11" and she's a sub for her sibling so it seems like to me they're further hinting that el is a sub in nina ?? el taking place of her "twinner" and experiencing what that version of her experienced in a different timeline .

also have a post here about how el is a twin according to continuity that i think we should talk about more bc it's right there.

and the whole swapping places concept is so huge in this whole show and they include it in so many dynamics.

fred says about the game when he sees the tigers starting to fall behind: "looks like my headline has a shot" (different outcome/timeline) like the nina project failing/ending the way it did possibly changed the timelines in reality or something similar ?

there's also so much talk about moving dates or getting them like

like brenner with his whole arsenal of videotapes with so many dates and he captured "every success and every failure." like there's a specific tape or date of significance. and like i said here, maybe this date or tape didn't exist yet or something ?? and they have to obtain it in a way ?? birthdaygate or something of the sort methinks.......

also brenner telling el how superheroes and monsters are a thing of myth and fairytale and "reality, truth, is rarely so simple. people are not so easily defined."

(even though it's ironic bc it's coming from the true "monster" of the show) but it's true, reality is based somewhere in the middle of those two definitions. just like succeeding or failing at something. sometimes you don't fail or succeed but a secret third thing !!!!! and i'm betting that this:

is also in the same vein. but the interesting part is that hopper with this compromise still gets home late. it's like even a compromise/half win isn't always the case either. sometimes it's completely out of your control what happens.

ANYWAYS so this whole concept of someone "winning" but then not "truly" winning all reminds me of heroes. i'm starting to think the "we could be heroes just for one day" is more about being heroes in one timeline at the end of the show or something, bc obviously an ending where everything is perfect and they defeat the evil is not where it's going.

and how joyce closes the door in the last shot of s3 with the song playing, to me it feels like a representation of the end of the show, but also of the UD because i believe the UD is a once alive timeline that got cut off from continuing. maybe at the end they say goodbye to the place they lived their whole lives (their own timeline) and move on to a different one together where things are different but they're all alive and with e/o. they will be heroes and win but just literally for one day/momentarily because it's not going to be a normal win.

(i also have had this fucked up thought for a while that the UD is what remains after them losing the s5 battle and their battle takes place in the past but also the future somehow idk ignore me lmao)

anyways and the first time heroes plays in 1x03 is when you as a viewer see undeniable evidence that will is alive since joyce talked to him, but then you see his body and get confused. you don't know yet if will is really alive or not, you don't know what timeline you're in.

and joyce knows she just talked to will and saw a monster coming out of the wall, and mike knows he saw will's body. it's like two things are true at once.

"the shame was on the other side" and they cut from mike and karen's hug to jonathan and joyce's hug. i wonder if they'll realize theres nothing they can do to like. stop the parallel universes/outcomes and some characters will end up in different timelines than the others or something like either way the ending is going to be oh so bittersweet.

something that's always always caught my attention though is in 1x03 it cuts to black on the last word "day". but in 3x09 the line ends and then it fades to black from the empty byer's house. almost like slowly unveiling something/letting us see a tiny bit more. pulling back the curtain a teeeny tiny bit.

hopefully this was comprehensible since it's a little all over the place but this is my fav type of stuff to think about about this show heheh

[itsjustbyler]

Who is Mike Wheeler for you and his top 5 moments in your opinion?

Hiii!! This is going to be big because it's been a while since I posted anything focused on this guy.

For me, Mike Wheeler is a complex character. Like love him or hate him. Unfortunately, many hate him. I'm on the love him almost always, hate him sometimes team. He is a character with flaws, which makes him very human. But I love him despite all his flaws, even though sometimes he makes me want to pull out my hair.

Mike is loyal, kind, fair and not afraid to fight for the people he loves. He is extremely smart and has an impressive ability to connect facts. The best plans of the first seasons came from him and I'm sure that if he had been in Hawkins in season 4, he and Nancy would have made a strong team against Vecna. (looking forward to this duo in season 5).

His biggest flaws for me are not thinking before speaking and sometimes not owning up to his own mistakes, placing responsibility on other people. Of course, many of his actions come from trauma, depression, the pressure he suffers as a child in the middle of all the chaos in the Upside Down. But, you can't justify everything with trauma. Mike has flaws like all the other characters and that's normal.

Unfortunately, he has very low self-esteem. He believes he's just a random nerd while all his friends are special in some way. In the first season he associates the fact that Dustin can contort his arms as a form of super power. In the second season he believes that Will's connection to the UD makes him a super spy. And of course, he sees El, the person who actually has powers as superman a superhero.

What Mike fails to see, and thanks Will to actually point it to him, it's that Mike is especial. The heart, as Will says. The other members of the party needs him. He is a leader by nature. He is so smart and so important to everyone. especially Will hehe.

As the seasons go on, we notice Mike trying to conform. In the first seasons, Mike is a proud nerd. Despite being bullied, he continues to play DnD and continues to embrace the things he enjoys, like dressing up as Ghostbusters on Halloween. The change actually occurs in the third season.

It's clear that Mike associates growing up with putting his interests aside and finding a girlfriend. We see Mike pulling away from his friends, especially Will, because he wants to spend as much time as possible making out with El. He even lies to his friends, something that Mike from the first seasons would never (I'm talking about him saying that he needs to take El home because of the time and his friends themselves know that it's too early for that and even called him out on it).

I think season three is where Mike is trying to force conformity the most. He stops playing DnD, starts wearing the clothes his mother picks for him (confirmed by Eddie at the beginning of season 4) and starts focusing on the relationship with El in an exaggerated way. Looking at reddit a while ago, there were people saying that Mike was turning into his father and I think the third season is the one that gives that impression the most.. I mean...

In the fourth season we see that Mike is returning to who we knew. He joined Hellfire, started playing DnD again, he's dressing like Eddie. I think Eddie is very important to Mike because Mike sees him as a cool guy who is not afraid to show what he likes, who don't care about what people thinks of him and is proud do be a freak. That's all Mike was scared to show on S3. It's sad because Mike never had it at home.

While Will had Jonathan, Dustin had Mike himself and Lucas had his family to tell them that's okay to be different and that what makes people think they are freaks is actually what makes them special, Mike had no one. His father doesn't care, he can't connect with his mother and Nancy is focused on herself and her own things. While Eddie hadn't say that directly to him, he inspires Mike to try. He even voices to Lucas that they are nerds and freaks and they don't want to be popular.

But of course something happened when he was going to Cali. Suddenly he is wearing outfits that reminded us of S3, he has a huge change of behavior that wasn't there on episode one and clearly something is off. There is something wrong with his relationship with El and worse with his relationship with Will. He even made that comment to El about Angela at dinner and thats clearly a parallel to his father behavior. So yeah, it was a very S3 Mike, having both the rain fight from S3 and clothes to parallel with.

Again, we are seeing Mike pushing Will away to focus on El. Except... we are shown that Mike was actually hyper aware of Will... "You were moping, rolling your eyes, barely talking". That's the first change. We found out that Will and Mike only talked a couple of times during that six months (for some reason a whole year for both of them) and while we can assume why Will had not tried to contact, we don't know why Mike didn't try to, only finding out that he did try and whined about it all the time with Dustin later. Miscommunication trope. After the whole fiasco at Rink o Mania we see what's wrong with him and El too, El is lying to him and he can't say ily.

Now with the part that many will disagree with, but that's okay. Mike's sexuality. Mike does not have a confirmed sexuality and has been placed in the middle of a love triangle where he is the center.

Mike can't seem to balance his relationship with both of them at once. If he fights with El, he get closer to Will. If he gets closer to El, he leaves his friendship with Will aside. Since the first season we have NEVER seen the three of them together with Mike completely fine with both of them. At the end of the third season, when he finally resolves things with both of them, they both leave Hawkins and S4 starts with everything different.

People like to justify this with "Mike noticed Will's feelings or that he's gay and is uncomfortable around him" which isn't true. Both the duffers and Finn have already confirmed that Mike has no idea. He is oblivious. People also say that this is normal, that real teenagers act like this. The thing is... Mike isn't a real teenager. His motivations, actions, thoughts must be in accordance with that character's narrative and with the way the writers want us to see him.

I had said that one of Mike's flaws is that he sometimes blames others for his attitude. We see this clearly in his relationship with El and how different this is in his relationship with Will. Mike lies to El in the third season and when El gets angry (rightly so), he blames Hopper and Max as if she had corrupted El. Mike has a big fight with Will in the third season after him and Lucas made fun of Will and ends up saying things that made Will sad. He immediately goes to Will's house to apologize and his words are "I was being a total asshole, could you please step outside so we can talk?".

In the fourth season Mike fights with El because he can't tell her he loves her and his words are "Who said that I didn't?" and "You can't let this mouth breakers ruin this, ruin us". In his mind, the people who bullied El are to blame for El not feeling loved by him. Also in the fourth season he fights with Will about Will not telling with him that El was being bullied, to which Will responds that there would be no way for him to tell him since Mike didn't even try to talk to him, they argue and once again Mike goes to Will to apologize and when Will tries to take the blame, Mike says "No, you don't deserve anything. The truth is the last year has been weird. Max, Lucas and Dustin are great but it's Hawkins and it's not the same without YOU (not Will and El, just Will) and I was worrying so much about El and feel like I lost you". Again he takes the blame, even if it wasn't just his fault in this situation. I love Will, I understand why he didn't try to contact Mike, but he can't just blame Mike when he didn't try either.

When El leaves, Mike is stuck with Will. Everything goes to shit and they share a lot of heart to hearts. For some reason, Mike hides Will what the real issue is. His words are "I should had said something (?) and if I just said that thing (?) I think she would be here with us". Well, he knows damn well what he should have said. El cries to him for it and he didn't say it.

Another heart to heart with Will in the desert and here goes Mike "I should have explained myself because maybe she would have take me with her and things would be different, but I didn't know what to say". Well... What's there to explain, Mike? You could just have said that you love her. In fact, I think she would fell really loved without Mike even saying it if Mike said the same thing he said to Will to her instead.

And then before the van scene, Mike's words are "I'm scared that she doesn't need me anymore. The truth is: when I stumble her in the woods, it's not fate, it's not destiny, it's just simple dumb luck and one day she is going to realize that I'm just a random nerd that got lucky that superman landed on his doorstep".

That again shows Mike's low self esteem. He thinks that people around him are close to him because they need him. Also, Mike is moving backwards here. While on episode one he says he doesn't want to be popular and that he proudly is a nerd and freak, now he thinks that he is a just a random nerd that is lucky that people needed him and if they don't, he is going to be left behind. The way he says that breaks my heart, he really believes that.

Will gives Mike the painting and his speech about Mike being the heart and Mike absolutely melts into it. Mike is finally seeing how other people (Will) sees him. Except that Will is lying and everything he said are his feelings, not El's. El does not feel that way, in fact, we don't know how El feels. It's sad, but it's the truth, El never said anything to Mike about what she likes about him and we never see her saying it to other people too. When El is talking about Mike with Max we just find out that she doesn't know if Mike is a good kisser and that Mike is just her first boyfriend.

That's one of the reasons Mike is so insecure about his relationship. I've seen some people saying that Will's speech is how El feels even after the confirmation that it was Will's and his speech has nothing to do with her.

Well, this is not a byler analysis and I'm here to talk about Mike, but I need to say the last thing about it. It's such a interesting writing choice to instead of making Mike monologue to El on his own without hesitation, they decided to have Will telling Mike to do it and making not only Mike but us to remember of his van speech and Will's feelings for him.

We will have to wait and see where they are going with it and how Mike will react to this information, but Finn's word are "the duffers said it will pay off" and "I think there is going to be a mutual understanding and acceptance". So, I'm sorry for people who wants Mike to be homophobic toward Will and seriously, if you do believe that Mike would be something like that, even after he pushing Troy for being homophobic with Will, you don't know Mike at all.

My interpretation for it is: Mike is a gay boy trying to conform. He witnessed how Will was bullied bc of his sexuality and he knows how bad Lonnie was with Will because of it. His father watch the news everyday and he sees how the propaganda against queer people are. He is not purposeful using El and I hate when people says that. He is figuring out himself. He loves El, he loves her so much. What he is starting figure out is that the love he feels for her is platonic and that doesn't mean that this love is less strong as a romantic one. He is scared of losing her. He lost her once and he doesn't want to lose her again. And that's maybe what he wants to explain so much. That's maybe "the thing" he has to say that it's scary to him. If Mike thinks that El is dating him because she needs him, what is going to happen when she finds out he can't love her the way she wants to be loved? He is going to lose her. Mike is not ready for this conversation and that's why he agrees when Will said that's scary to open up to people you care about the most because they could not like the truth right after he said that he needs to explain himself.

I really really wish people would go read about internalized homophobia and how far it can go before calling us delusional for recognizing it on Mike's attitudes, not only going to Google and reading "internalized homophobia is when someone is gay and doesn't accept it" and closing it right after. He is starting to realize that the way he feels about Will is the way he is supposed to feel about El and this is scary as f*ck... I've been there... Mike is lost in the middle of what he really wants and what people wants for him and he doesn't know how to proceed. Everything being worse with him being in the middle of the supernatural shit happening and he watching over and over again both Will and El as a target of it. Just like Nancy on s1, Mike will have to chose if he stays in a loveless relationship like his parents because that's what people expects from him and it's "normal" or follow his own path and stop trying to conform.

Mike has depression and PTSD. His relationships are not the only part of his character. We can see that he barely eats anything in the fourth season, with shots of Will watching him messing with his food instead of eating it. There is also a shot of Will reacting concerned about Nancy's comment about the mess in Mike's basement because he knows that this is not normal, Max also comment on it so it's really something they want us to notice. We haven't been in Mike's POV for a while and it worries me a lot that the duffers decide to make Mike Vecna'd so that we can finally find out everything that's going on in his head.

Mike has the most overlooked trauma in the show imo. Everyone just act like he is just being difficult instead of actually pay attention to WHY Mike behaves like he does sometimes. Unfortunately, this happens with the audience too. People who hate him and write whole essays about how he is not the same just see the surface level of his actions and instead of trying to understand his reasons, they just hate on him.

He had to see El "dying" right in front of him. He had to witness his best friends body presumedly dead being pulled out the water. He witnessed everything that happened with Will throughout his possession. He had to fight the mind flayer, saw his friends struggling without knowing who would survive, saw someone (Billy) dying right in front of him, saw his sister almost dying because of the mind flayer too. He had already seen Will being targeted by the Mind Flayer and then had to see El being targeted by it too, without her powers. He had to come up with a lot of plans to save their friends that could have gone so much wrong and he would blame himself for everything. He has to deal with being queer in the 80s, were the AIDS was at its peak and associated exclusively with queer people.

I think this is to big already so I will just finish saying that I want to see more Mike in S5, not only related to that unresolved love triangle but also the Mike we love, that come up with crazy plans and the leader that he aways was, the one that is going to jump in on every change he has to protect his friends and will fight for what's right.

Now finally, my fav moments:

Mike and his reaction to Will's body being pulled out the water

From the moment Heroes starts playing, I see Hoppers reaction and Mike vocalizes "It's not Will, it can't be" to the moment he comes home and hugs his mom I'm destroyed. No matter how many times I watch this scene, if I'm rewatching the whole season or just watching it though a reel. I cry hard on this one. All the damn time.

Mike pushing Troy for being homophobic to Will

This shows how brave Mike Wheeler is and how he stands up for his friends. He was the target of Troy and his bullying for years. Still, he defended Will when Troy made homophobic comments about him and he doesn't even thought to much about it.

Mike's monologue to Will

It's one that also makes me cry a lot. He is being so genuine here, so vulnerable. It's like while he is talking he himself is realizing that asking Will to be his best friends is the best thing he was ever done.

Mike and his break down to Hopper when he found out he was hiding El

This is so sad. Mike had to see El "dying" right in front of him. He thought he lost her. He blamed himself, thought he was going crazy but them he finds out that Hopper knew where she was all the time. Mike breaks down not only because of this, but I feel like it was about everything that happened that season. It was too much for that kid.

Mike and his cute and flirty apologize to Will after their fight

I mean... this is so cute. Both of them were tearing up. Mike using his Will Voice TM. He apologizing for everything that happened between them and promising that whatever comes next, they will be a team no matter what. The interruption trope and the fact that if Jonathan hadn't entered the room, they would keep staring lovingly at each other 😭

honorable mentions to: Mike jumping off the quarry to protect Dustin, Mike and his sassy face to Steve at their movie date, Mike and his theatrical speech as a DM and Mike's reaction to Will's painting. but you told me to pick just 5 and this is already too long LOL

Ty for the ask!

[queenofbaws]

hi hello it's me again, still deeply entrenched in the brainrot, thanks for asking

anyway i know we've all come to the consensus (correctly) that the ud kids could survive tq but tq kids would have just. the worst time in blackwood, but now i'm.............i have a new* hypothetical to pose to the class and that's just........picture......any of the duos from ud

any of them

not even talking ships, just. just any duo.

you look me in the eye and you tell me travis survives 2 months of them the way he survived 2 months of max and laura - HE WOULD NOT

i will not be using this space to list every permutation of travis nightmare scenarios, but here are the ones that come to MY mind immediately:

emily and jess - he's super stoked about this arrangement for about a week. that week gives them just enough time to find his worst emotional vulnerabilities, flashing like giant final boss weak points, and then they tear his already fragile self-esteem to bloody ribbons until he just fucking gives up and lets them out

matt and mike - they dig their way through the cell walls and take turns punching him until all the change falls out of his pockets, next question

chris and ashley - this is the one where i'll grant you travis's time probably wouldn't be MUCH worse than it was with max and laura, but you look me in my eyes and tell me ashley brown can't slip through those bars and go sleuthing. you tell me that!!!!!!! she weighs like 90lbs soaked in pig's blood, sHE'S GETTING THROUGH THOSE BARS AND FINDING CLUES BY GOD

josh and chris - 5 minutes of them and he just shoots them. just. just does the damn thing. chapter 7 ends almost as soon as it starts

the possibilities are endless.

[spicybylerpolls]

Well, unknown hero agent man / pen symbolism anon, i hope you're reading this, cos you hit the nail on the head! this kind of symbolic storytelling is not only a fine art of cinema (being lost these days a little sadly, what with the whole netflix speedy turnover etc), but exactly what (good) films of the horror genre aim to do.

horror has long been a way to creatively tell 'normal' dramatic stories through subtext and symbolism. not sure if this is still a way around traditional censorship but im sure it began that way. films like the exorcist, the shining, rosemary's baby... all classics that are filled with subtext. its also an exciting way to talk about things that might seem trite or too bleak when portrayed as a 'straight' drama (this is the term meaning 'non-genre based' or 'non-musical' lmao). So you could say that ST is NOT straight, in more ways than one 😉

but much of this will go over casual viewers heads, so its finding the balance between making a story believable on the surface (another dimension exists! scary government men trying to kill us!) and subtextually (the UD as a metaphor for trauma/AIDS/closeted homosexuality/abuse etc) if viewers are clever enough to see/feel it. i say feel because much of storyviewing is instinctive instead of analytical.

so ST incorporates both - not just metaphorical, vague storytelling, but also real issues too. but it goes one step further, and actually has characters talk explicitly about reading deeper into stuff (murray's behind the curtain speech). it's a very meta show, even for a genre piece, which is why it astounds me that some people think it's not that deep lol. and some people think that only literature can be deep, but never tv or movies - which is an insult to anyone who has ever been passionate about cinema tbh. It's a statement that would probably rip the heart out of the duffers' chests and stomp on it. these guys are super nerds who have dedicated their adult lives to this passion project. as finn said, 'most people make it then just cash in - im so glad they still care'.

I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable talking about the beauty of this storytelling on your main. it really does surprise me that the fandom is so censorship obsessed because sexual metaphors have long existed in visual media, and especially in horror films. there used to be a long post about byler and a potential sex scene at lover's lake on here, but the user disappeared and the post went missing. it was about all the sexual imagery in ST, with a focus on byler in s4. i especially loved how they mentioned mike's introduction, where he was just in underwear: it is both appropriate for the setting, but also gets the audience used to him as a growing lad with a body and draws attention to those uncomfortable, potentially sexual aspects of being a teen. i mean, he was in tiny pants for god's sake. did we need to see that? why did we see it? etc etc

hilariously, they also referenced the always sunny in philadelphia scene where a character is in a therapist office talking about a pen being a dick. he then puts it in his mouth and chews the pen lmoao

i think you'd enjoy @therainscene's rod symbolism post too. I'm personally hoping for some explicit sex scenes with byler, because the show so far has arguably been telling that story metaphorically already for 4 seasons, and bringing it out of the subtext could be a storytelling device in itself. bringing byler's secrets into the light. after all, this is a period piece that aims to shed light on a bygone era. its not a propaganda piece that needs to remain coded; the reasons for staying secretive still exist for mike and will in the 80s, but times have changed since then for us as a global audience, and more importantly, the aspirational message has changed. what message would the duffs want to send to viewers that are still bigoted? clearly one of the beauty of homosexuality, seeing as will, our fav gay boy, has been the darling sympathetic victim of the show since s1e1. the show needs to remain true to both the 80s while also having a strong message for this decade in order for modern audiences to be able to gain something from watching this story; in order for there to be a reason the show exists at all.

so to answer your question, i had never picked up on the pen symbolism until now, but i immediately agree, not least because 1) it must have a meaning that connects to byler's conversation otherwise why does it just interrupt them with no reason? (from a storytelling pov), and 2) because of the always sunny scene lolllll

thanks for the discourse! if you stick around into s5, im sure we will be able to start discussing this on our mains. it'll be a new era and there might even be gifs/pics of byler to accompany our 'spicy' discourse haha!

Amazing/fascinating points! Thanks for adding to the discussion!

[timetobeaghost]

So do we all agree at this point that Eddie is coming back for ST5? With Joseph Quinn revealing he has insider information about it and all...

It seems completely obvious to me, I can't even understand anymore why it wasn't when ST4 ended. I mean Max went somewhere when she died and didn't come back into her body. (Probably into Vecna's mind as he told El "They are all still in here") So obviously others did too. It doesn't change zilch that Max heart was restarted, that's only her chance to come back into this world and live on after she is freed.

Eddie's body might be preserved in the UD as time stands still, so I guess it would be possible to relive him story telling -wise, but it's probably a bit more likely his body is dead and he will just die when freed from wherever he is now, but for now he is probably stuck.

Honestly as much as I love and grieve Alexei, Eddie is not like him. He was build up so much and more seemed to be promised with his character, which is why so many people were annoyed with his not totally arc-fulfilling and satisfying death. Alexei's death was sad but perfect, Eddie's not so much. There must be more to come, right? I'm pretty sure .

[bugsbenefit]

to this day i'm stuck on the s1 scene where the party is in the woods looking for Will and we get a fake out finding-El moment that's the most bizarre thing they could have gone for

they're walking, Dustin is complaining, then leaf rustling starts and Mike keeps telling the others to shut up and asking if they heard that. then he whips around and almost shoves Dustin over (lmao)

and then we get the shot to show us what made the sound Mike and we heard which is... (drumroll please)

NOTHING !

great. the boys aren't impressed either

maybe Mike's craziness just set in earlier than we thought- but no wait there's the sound again

and it's Mike again who turns to it first, doing a full 180 and now almost knocking Lucas over this time (lmao again, poor guy), who even puts his hands up when he stumbles back

but we get another reaction shot and this time it is... EL!

just. this whole scene. it's never explained but has some weird implications. it's not like this was an easy mix up. the original noise didn't come from somewhere *near* El it was in the completely opposite direction

the leaves rustle once. it stops when we're looking in the general area. and then we hear leaves rustling for a second time it's now coming from behind them

not only would it obviously be ridiculous for El to run circles around them or use her powers to make some leaves rustle somewhere else since she's clearly not trying to hide from the party, she also wouldn't have time to change the direction she came at them from since they're whipping around so fast. so that's for sure not what's going on here

and it's also not like this is just establishing that Mike has incredibly poor directional hearing since he's the one to respond to both the rustlings. very surely turning in the first direction before then switching it around and turning in the other one to see El. neither are hesitant. and both turns are also shot in a way where we the viewer expects something to be shown. the fact that there's empty forest the first time is WEIRD

so to me there's two possible things that could be going on here:

1.) it's somehow Will in the UD causing this. Joyce waking up having a vision of Will still has the possible implication that it could really have been Will reaching out to her, and Mike is able to pick up on El's presence in the void in s2 without her touching him or speaking a word. so some overlap between the different "dimensions"? "worlds"? whatever seems to be possible for sure

or 2.) it somehow relates to the time theme ST has going on that we still haven't gotten insight into. be it some alternate timeline, timeloop, etc concept. but i find it hard to theorize about the actual execution of the time theme since there really isn't much to tell us how it could eventually play into the story besides having Henry's ongoing plotline with the grandfather clock and various references to time and clocks

the overall implication of that shot sequence is that there is or should have been something there, it's not at all shot like a normal character reveal fake out. it doesn't build El's arrival, even the boys seem confused when they're checking out the empty forest. but there's also no way an actual person was there since the boys would have seen them

i just wanna know what they're implying here so bad

[cyberkiss2uu]

good morning pokemon community umm. gymsona w other gym leaders i think match their vibe ^_^ do nottt ask me what gen any of these ppl are from dude i play pokemon pearl and cant even tell u who the gym leaders are in that. i opned the pokemon wiki and scrolled

anywho more info and stuff below break hehehehehehehhehehe

> this is all copypasted from when i talked ab it in a server LOL

ermm okie side note my only pkmn knowledge is like. pearl. so my bad :3 but the way i made the gym it kinda pushes how gyms traditionally work ... its more like a game show [because i always loved doing the little interviews thru pearl and the contests n stuff] where theres 8 contestants and they just bracket their way down to the final battle against the gym leader/host who is. me technically. but jamie crown is their name ^_^

one fun thing i thought of was because its a live show u wouldnt rlly be able to .. leave and go to the pokecenter and heal or buy items.. so ud have an option to heal between rounds at ur little podium :3 all with pokecenter certified tech or whatev of course !!

because its not gym members i realize it doesnt rlly lend itself towards being a typical gym since it would be ppl from all over coming to compete thinking emoji.. but it kinda works as a like. elite four minigame LOL idk :3 i didnt think ab it too hard

and then in terms of the team i chose

> starmie to fit a celestial theme i have going on w my friends hehe i originally had jirachi but that seems. unfair

> luxray .. my fav pokemon and i originally was going to do an electric gym

> meloetta coz her earpiece thing is vry similar to the og design's earpiece and semi inspired the earpiece now

> and tinkaton for being super cute and also like wat if she helped build and repair stuff... ik the dex entries mention tinkaton being a thief usually but . thats ok i support womens wrongs

and then real nerd alert ☝️ the outfit i just redesigned i think comes together sooo well im so happy w it. the collar being mirrored on the top of the boots, the vaguely sci-fi aesthetic taht i love w the wavy patterning kinda veering towards like 80s and that retro-futuristic look that i love.. the capelet kinda looking jester-y [i looove a good jester aesthetic] plus theyre very 80s. gameshow host personality LOL.. the star tie is super cute i think and the little luxray star shapes around and even in the eyes <333 idfk im just so happy w it its so cute and awesomeee

also the visual of jamie tellinf starmie to use surf in a densely packed room with a high concentration of electrical components on live television is sending me into a FIT because they ARE bimbo enough to do that

and also the design alt and the old outfit :3 the last one is just an outfit i found looking at rhythmic gymnastic leotards n went OH THATS SO JAMIE hehe.. the old design is so dear to me and i still rlly like it but i love this new one a lot ^_^ idk i think their design will change a lot regardless because being a game show host i think they would have lots of diff outfits as opposed to a uniform but.. pokemon logic u wear the same outfit for the rest of ur life

[erikiara80]

Some thoughts about the leaks

I'm going to use different colors, so it's not confusing: Brenner and Henry, Joyce and Hopper, Henry and Patty

Brenner's father was captain of a ship, subject of government Project Rainbow that "disappeared at sea" in 1943 (they were trying to make it invisible) It actually wound up in Dimension X and all crew members except Brenner's father perished

Ship, rainbow, other dimension -> Will and his rainbowship that might be a parallel with Olivia drawing a Zeppelin when she travels to the other universe in Fringe.

I read two different names for the ship tho. Eldritch (that would be cool, lol) and Aldgate. And there's also the ship of the Philadelphia Experiment, the Eldridge. Hope someone can clarify what the actual name is.

If it's Eldritch, it could be a reference to Eldtrich horrors or the dnd campaign in '79, when Nancy joined the party. 1979, (Will's) sister, El.

If the name is Aldgate, it could be a reference to the Aldgate Pump in London, where Kali was abducted.

The pump has a gruesome past that gained it the nickname 'Pump of Death' after it caused a cholera outbreak in 1876. It was discovered that the pump's water supply contained sediment including calcium that was leached from human bones in nearby cemeteries.

Bacteria, infection, death. Yeah, makes sense.

Patty and Henry's secret journal

This is cool. So Henry has a secret journal written in code and the key to decoding it is the clock chimes or the clock face. Thinking again about Will's connection to time. His Marty McFly outfit, Dustin giving him the Forever Clock, and his name on the grandfather clock. I'm glad that Patty survived. If she's the only one who knows about the journal, she must come back in S5, right? Maybe they've already introduced her character in S4. Just speculation! I love clocks and secret codes, I'm happy they'll be important in the last season.

Henry disappeared in Nevada for twelve hours, close to where Brenner was conducting experiments to try to find Dimension X. When he returned he was completely changed. Alice mentions it is not the same person

This is a huge parallel with Will. Will vanishes and in S2 Jon says that he's not the same. Also, 12! I don't know if they show Henry in Dimension X or they just say that he wound up there. But anyway. They mention 12 hours when Owens takes El to Nina, so that's about Henry, but it's also about Will. Before that scene, we get a close up of the light bulb in El's closet (like the one in the shed) and Owens even mentions working out of a shed.

EDIT: Someone on Reddit says that when Henry disappears Brenner finds Henry's spyglass. He begins searching for him and that's what leads him to Hawkins.

But the whole thing is sus. I need more info about the Mind Flayer and Henry's powers. Also, what a coincidence that Henry disappeared in Nevada where Brenner was conducting experiments, and then moved to the town where Brenner's lab is. Tell me there's a scene that shows that Brenner helped the Creels relocate. It would be a cool parallel with Owens helping the Byers to relocate in California.

Brenner's father returned seriously ill from Dimension X and unable to take blood transfusion. Henry's blood, like Brenner's father, is unlike any other humans. He developed a connection to the UD (and presumably with his powers) when he went missing. It's also explained that the lab kids were created through blood transfusion from Henry to pregnant women

Interesting that they mention that Brenner's father was unable to take blood transfusion and then Brenner uses Henry's blood. But I'm sure this is not the whole story.

Henry, El and the other lab kids

I read that they show a photo of the other nine lab kids, including Kali. That would explain why they kidnapped a girl in England. They knew who Kali was and that she had Henry's blood and powers. But now I have a new question lol: why was Kali in London? Did her mother run away, or the women could leave the lab with their babies? But if the mothers knew about the experiments, how is that possible that nobody knew about the abduction of nine babies?

Henry holding El in the last scene: 'I'm excited to see you, Eleven. I have something new for us'

This reminds me of Brenner saying Let's try something more challenging, after Ten mentions red blocks and Six, twice (12). And Henry says the same thing to El in the RR, before he tells her about Brenner's plan to kill her. So, something new for Eleven and 12?

The problem is, Henry says that he has something new for El when she was born, but then nothing happens for eight years. Strange. But. IF Kali wasn't raised in the lab, maybe it means that El wasn't either. This could support my car crash theory. We'll see!

Joyce and Hopper's romantic tension, and their goodbye before Hopper ships off to war

Love that Joyce asks him to meet her at midnight for drinks. Another 12 mention in Jopper's last scene. Sweet. But did they say why Joyce doesn't leave Hawkins? Why does Hopper feel cursed? Why is she still with Lonnie if he's an asshole?

EDIT: It appears that Joyce is stuck in Hawkins because she wanted to win a scholarship with the play, but she didn't because Henry hurt Patty and everybody thought she was dead.

Oh, I'm also very curious to know who the member of Brenner's staff who runs away with some equipment is...

I have so many questions about Henry's story, and certain inconsistencies, but I'll wait for more spoilers

One last thing.

This intrigues me. Two experiments, two doctors, two keys, two kids, Will and Eleven (and Henry/Edward 10->01). A ship disappears and then, maybe, an entire town? Hmm