#just a pet peeve of mine with Norse Marvel

[lokiinmediasideblog]

If I examine how I personally interpret Marvel!Loki, at its core is my extreme hatred of the "Evil Adoptee" and "Good King/Good Kingdom" tropes. And there's decades of this in print...

The "Evil Adoptee" trope seems very victim-blamey , to me at least. And the latter very false and hard to buy.

[storiesofwildfire]

{ outofmagic }

Okay, as I already said, I saw Thor Ragnarok today and I have a lot of things to say about it. I’m trying to get all of my thoughts out in the open, both to give my honest opinion of the movie, and to help me organize everything I’m thinking right now so I can, hopefully, develop some sort of verse for this or figure out how to incorporate it for people who would want to interact in a post-Ragnarok setting. 

I already know the verse will be slightly AU. There are too many things about the movie that I don’t want to incorporate into my blog for it to be completely canon, but I’m going to try.

Anyway, my thoughts will be beneath the cut. If you don’t want to see any spoilers, please don’t open the post. I will tag this post appropriately for those who have blacklisted spoilers.

First off, I want to say that I’m extremely conflicted about this film. I’ve had a lot of complaints about MCU as of late. I absolutely hated Age of Ultron and Civil War. This movie was a massive improvement over some of the movies that MCU has been dishing out lately. I enjoyed watching this movie. It was fun and it was funny and all-in-all, it was a decent film. I’d see it again, but it’s definitely not my favorite. 

First off, I hate that they made Ragnarok funny. This movie was borderline a comedy and Ragnarok is literally the end of everything. I think it should have been taken way more seriously, but alas, they did not want to go with a serious tone. Instead, they made everything as funny as they could while death loomed in the waiting.

I. HELA’S BACKSTORY & PARENTAGE

I hate how they portrayed Hela. As most of you probably know, Sleipnir, Hel, Fenrir, and Jormungandr are all Loki’s children. Of course, MCU decided to edit that so none of these children are actually children of Loki. This really bothers me. If they didn’t want to have Loki be a parent to any of these characters, they shouldn’t have included them at all. Okay, the shoutout to Sleipnir in Thor 1 was cute. The horse Odin rode having eight legs was a nice little shoutout, but they never actually named the stallion and it was more of an Easter egg, but to put Hela front and center in a movie and destroy her parentage? I hated it. I knew I was going to hate it right off the bat, but I feel it’s worth mentioning.

The story that they decided to go with made about as much sense as just having Loki be Hela’s parent. They created an unnecessary relationship to the House of Odin that was never established or mentioned or hinted to in earlier movies and if they were just going to throw something like Hela being Odin’s eldest child in there, why not just go ahead and actually make her Loki’s daughter? 

The choice they made still makes her a member of the House of Odin, but it just felt cheap and easy and, honestly, very lazy. It was a band-aid solution for how to introduce her without actually making her Loki’s daughter.

We all knew this was coming so I won’t harp on it too much, but I’m just disappointed with how they chose to handle her. If they weren’t going to make her Loki’s daughter, they should have just had her completely unrelated whatsoever.

They didn’t explain who Hela’s mother was, either, so that was all up in the air.

And, to be honest, Marvel’s continuing down the path of under-developed villains. They did not develop Hela enough. MCU really needs to work on their development of their antagonists because they rarely get the time or backstory they deserve and they’re usually killed off in the film they debut in. 

II. THE WARRIORS THREE

Now, I’ve always been upset with how little screentime The Warriors Three (and Sif) got and how underdeveloped they were. These are supposed to be Thor and Loki’s friends. They’re important and they’re famous warriors. For fuck’s sake, Sif if the Goddess of War!

So what do they do? Waste all potential these characters had by killing them off straight away.

This was the thing that hurt me the most, to be honest.

Fandral is one of my favorite characters in the Thor universe. He and the others have so much potential to be fleshed out and developed into strong secondary characters that everyone wants to see. But what did Ragnarok do? Killed Volstagg and Fandral within a couple seconds of Hela arriving on Asgard and then Hogun a little while later. They completely disregarded these characters completely, as if they were disposable and they didn’t actually matter at all. I wanted them to do more with The Warriors Three and Sif, not just gut them so they weren’t there at all.

They didn’t even bother to give Volstagg or Fandral a decent death. They didn’t go out fighting. They were just Hela’s first victims and they never even bothered to have anyone react to their deaths.

Remember at the end of Thor The Dark World when Thor decided he didn’t want to be king, so he just left a battle-torn Asgard alone to rebuild without him? And he just completely forgot about his friends and the fact that Sif, Fandral, and Volstagg all committed treason for him? And Thor just didn’t even bother to care that they could be imprisoned or executed for treason? He just left them behind without even saying goodbye so he could go back to Midgard? 

Yeah, it’s basically like that all over again, except their deaths didn’t mean anything at all.

Oh, and Sif wasn’t even in the movie at all? What the fuck kind of shit is that?

III. NOT ENOUGH TIME ON ASGARD

This movie is... about Ragnarok, which is the end of the world, right? So why did the movie still not focus very much on Asgard? This has been a constant complaint with Thor movies. They spent too much time on Midgard or too much time on anywhere that isn’t Asgard. Yes, they spent almost all of the movie off of Midgard, much to my pleasure, but they still spent way too much time away from Asgard.

Considering what this story was, I think they needed to focus more on Asgard and Hela’s development as she invaded and took over the realm. 

IV. TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON THOR AND THE HULK

This kind of piggybacks off of the last comment. Because the time spent on Asgard was so minimal, I think the time they spent with the whole Hulk vs. Thor thing went on for way too long. That took up a huge portion of the movie and it just took away from what the story was supposed to be about. I enjoyed that sequence, but I think it needed to be cut down a lot. They could have spent that time elsewhere to develop Hela more, to develop Loki more, to develop Valkyrie more, and yet... So much time went to this thing that just took up way too much of the movie. It was fun, but it almost felt like they were getting way off topic by dragging it out. They put so much emphasis on this that it felt like the actual threat of Ragnarok was not even that serious.

V. GRANDMASTER

Not everything I have to say about this movie is negative and honestly? I loved the Grandmaster. He was hilarious and ridiculous but he was just a really fun inclusion. And he totally wanted to get into Loki’s pants, let me tell you. A+ on the Grandmaster, Marvel. He was pretty fucking cool and I’d love to roleplay with one.

VI. VALKYRIE

FUCKING LOVED HER. They went into a bit of her backstory (not as much as I would have liked, but I digress) and I just? Really fucking liked her a lot? And I’d love to see more of her. She and the Grandmaster were definitely two highlights of the movie for me.

VII. ODIN’S DEATH

I think we all knew this was coming. Odin dies early on in the film. He speaks with Thor and Loki one last time. I enjoyed their talk. It was like Odin finally understood the wrongs that he’d done to Loki and he wanted Loki to truly understand that he was his son and he loved him. He even mentioned how Frigga would have been proud of the spell he put on him to keep him unaware of his relocation and removal from Asgard. He wasn’t angry or spiteful and it was a genuinely touching moment.

His death, however, made very little sense. It was like he just decided to stop living and went to join Frigga in Valhalla. It seemed very forced, like Anthony Hopkins wanted out of the franchise and his contract was up, so they wrote this half-arsed death scene that didn’t really make a whole lot of sense.

I would have liked to see a more logical end to the All-father. All-in-all, not the worst thing the movie did, but it could have been handled a little better.

VIII. GOD-TITLE INCONSISTENCIES

I’ve talked about this a lot. My pet peeve that MCU tries to take away the fact that these characters are actual deities in Norse Mythology and, instead, writes them as “really powerful aliens”. 

So why is it, that in this movie, they keep referring to themselves and one another as Gods? Thor’s title, Hela’s title, and Loki’s title are all mentioned as the God/Goddess of ___. 

Now, I’ve always portrayed Loki as a god. He’s always been a mix of Marvel and Myth and I refuse to take away his godhood because of some “really powerful alien” bullshit, but the movies seem to have a hard time making up their minds on the issue? 

This wasn’t a huge issue for me, but the inconsistency did annoy me. 

IX. SPECIAL EFFECTS & MUSIC

The movie was just really beautiful. Even if the movie had been absolute crap, the visuals and the music were entertaining and it just made for watching something very visually stunning. The work that went into all the details of the movie were top notch and they really stepped it up from the original Thor film and The Dark World.

X. LOKI’S PORTRAYAL

Okay, here’s where things get really rough for me.

As someone who has been roleplaying Loki for over five years now, I’ve developed him so much that I feel like I have a truly unique version of Loki that is purely mine and I am very protective of him in both mythology and Marvel.

Every time a movie comes out that has Loki as a main character, I get horrible anxiety, worrying that they’re going to ruin him or fuck him over so much that there’s nothing left for him. 

This movie... Well, Loki was fun to watch. He was funny and he had a lot of great moments. However, I don’t think they took Loki’s role, his importance, his development, or his character seriously enough.

The way he was written almost made it feel like he was Thor’s silly sidekick who was there to make Thor look better. Loki made a few extremely stupid mistakes and decisions in the film that just didn’t seem to fit his level of intelligence. Loki is supposed to be incredibly intelligent, light on his feet, and quick with his words. He’s no one’s fool, but this movie kind of made me think that they were knocking Loki down a few pegs so they could build Thor up even more. 

I enjoyed watching Loki (I mean, I love Tom Hiddleston and his Loki and he did the best he could with the material he was given), but I don’t think they were very good at doing his character justice. Yes, he’s the God of Mischief. He’s a prankster. He does silly things, usually with a purpose, but this movie just stuck him in the role of borderline-goofy sidekick and I really did not enjoy that. 

Loki did some foolish things that I just truly and honestly believe he’s far too intelligent for and it’s really bothering me that they seemed to take his role and make a joke of it. Even when it was revealed that he was parading around as Odin since the end of The Dark World, no one actually seemed to care?

Loki did go through even more of a redemption arc, which was nice, but it generally felt far too easy and lazy. Yes, he ended up being the one to save the day, but his and Thor’s emotional baggage seemed to just disappear at the end of the movie. All of the turmoil and animosity just faded away and they didn’t even really have a chance to forgive one another or anything. Loki seemed to tip towards being a hero, but what they did to show that transition just felt lazy, like they didn’t want to dig deep into the rawness of it all.

They did not showcase Loki’s magic enough. Tom Hiddleston himself said that Loki is unimpressed by people like Dr. Strange because his sorcery is so beneath what Loki can do, so why did Dr. Strange so easily pull one over on Loki? Why can’t they let Loki showcase everything that he can do? Or at least more of what he can do? And really validate him as the intelligent, cunning-yet-charming, deadly sorcerer that he is? It seems like if they give that to him, they think they’ll overshadow other characters like Thor and other heroes.

I did, however, like that Loki was able to give his side of the story to the people of Asgard while he was parading around as Odin. People seemed to genuinely take well to Loki’s memory. Loki even admitted to the entire realm that he was not only adopted but that he was also a Frost Giant. He’s finally accepted his heritage.

And you know what? While Loki was pretending to be Odin, he rebuilt Asgard. They didn’t elaborate on it, but Asgard was whole again after the Dark Elves invasion. People were happy and healthy and the realm flourished under his rule. He might not have been presenting himself as himself (something I still really, really hate), but he was a good king while pretending to be Odin and he put forth the effort to show that he could be a good king, even if he partook in a bit too much self-indulgence. 

Loki is also the only reason that there were any survivors from Asgard, I’m just saying.

XI. THE FINAL PLAN TO DEFEAT HELA

Ragnarok was not instigated by Hela. She came to Asgard to conquer it. She killed a lot of people to accomplish this, yes, but she didn’t actually destroy Asgard. Ragnarok was instigated by Loki. He summoned Sutar in order to destroy what was left of Asgard (as well as Hela) once the survivors of Asgard were evacuated. 

I liked this idea. I’ve actually written AUs just like this already where Loki purposefully enacts Ragnarok in order to save those he can and destroy their oppressors (like Thanos). For Loki to bring about Ragnarok for a good purpose is one of my favorite ideas. It’s the end of everything, but it’s also the beginning. It’s rebirth. It’s new hope. It’s one of Loki’s biggest roles.

But the idea wasn’t Loki’s and that really pissed me off. Instead of letting Loki come to the conclusion on his own, they had Thor instigate the idea instead. 

I think Loki’s entire story would have been so much more whole and complete if they just let Loki deliver the final blow on his own. It shouldn’t have been Thor’s idea. That just looked like another desperate attempt to have Thor outshine Loki.

Loki got to be the hero, but only because Thor gave him the idea. No, Marvel. That’s completely unnecessary. Ragnarok is Loki’s. Loki is intelligent enough and clever enough to come up with this plan on his own without any help from his brother. Period. He should have come up with the idea long before Thor ever even conceived it.

XII. THOR AND LOKI

I actually really did love seeing the brotherly bond between them. I think this is the first movie that really highlighted the fact that they are, indeed, brothers. While I didn’t like the dynamic of Loki being kind of like a sidekick or Thor constantly HAVING to be better than Loki, I did really enjoy them together as siblings. I felt like they had a lot more to discuss and dissect considering how much they were at odds with one another for so long, but there were genuine moments of brotherly bond that I absolutely adored.

I want more of that. I love Loki and Thor as brothers that struggle so much and often do stupid things to outdo one another but are brothers nonetheless. 

I loved seeing the unspoken love between them, however, I do think they needed to hash out more of their hatred and aggression towards one another. That seemed to be completely glossed over for the sake of... I don’t know what, to be honest.

XIII. SHOWCASING OTHER WARRIORS

The movie focused far too much on Thor’s battle and powers. During the final showdown between Team Thor and Hela’s undead army, Thor took out what looked like 90% of the army. The rest of the warriors, like Loki, Hulk, Valkyrie, and Heimdall only got a few seconds of screentime each to show them battling and that sucked. They are ALL powerful warriors. They should have been showcased a bit more.

[thevikingwoman]

Opinions on Loki? Marvel or Norse? Or both?

Hello Anon! 

Oh, boy. 

Norse Loki - so Norse Loki is very interesting. 

In Norse mythology is interesting because he is not good or evil. Look at the myth of Sleipnir. He - for some reason - convinced the other gods to make a deal, which they did not want to lose, and in their arrogance they thought they wouldn’t. Once it became clear they would, the told Loki to ‘fix it’, threatening to kill him if he didn’t. Not very nice, hmm? As we know, Loki did fix it, and gave birth to Sleipnir. In other tales he is a much clearer antagonist, such as the story of Hoder - again though, he serves to remind us of the gods pride/hybris, and how dangerous it is. 

I am sure someone who studied tales and mythology could give a much better answer, but in short I find him interesting because he is not good, he is not evil, and it is unclear why he does the things he does. An agent of chaos. 

Then let me just inject here - a pet peeve of mine is when people in the fandom calls Solas a ‘trickster god’ - he is not a trickster archetype at all, except maybe in a few (probably incorrect) Dalish stories. He is either a pure antagonist - The Great Betrayal is not ‘tricking’, or not mischievous at all (his own presentation of himself).

I don’t really want to start fandom discourse about it, but if anyone is Native American and/or have good knowledge of the subject and have thoughts about how Solas compares to a character like Coyote I would be all ears. Also any other trickster gods, like Anansi - I know very little here. 

Marvel… I never read the comics, but I did see the movies. I mean I love the movie portrayal, but I think he is much more evil than I think he is in Norse mythology. He is a great ‘grey moral’ antagonist, and of course brilliantly acted. 

TMI Tuesday