#jude theory

[shatcey]

I'm always an awe when you refer to so many resources… Amazing… I have a terrible memory, and when I see the ability of others not just to remember, but also to use this information makes me slightly envious. Just slightly.

I see it a little differently. And since we're just talking about possibilities, so I'll add my drop of poison...

Most likely, he really studied at the church and now subconsciously afraid of being punished for everything he had done. I feel a contradiction in him… between the desire to punish the bad guys and the desire not to become one of them in the process. Doing bad is bad, but I'm not bad, because I'm doing bad for the good. Does it make sense? I wonder how far I am from the truth… and if I'm close, will it be at his route?

I think that, in Ellis's route, he didn't come in to church for one of two reasons. Either he has some memories related to the church or a teacher which he doesn't like to remember. Or… which is more likely… he doesn't wanna find out more about Ellis. It's not because he doesn't care, quite the opposite. He cares too much about him and doesn't want to know more about his dark past. So as not to feel sorry for him or not get attached to him even more. The reason? Who knows… But that's how it feels to me.

Actually the combination of orphans and the church immediately makes me think of Johann (Faust of IkeVamp). And this immediately leads to a story from his route. I doubt the devs will use the same story twice, but who knows.

I should probably clarify for those of you who haven't read this or have already forgotten. It's under the spoiler anyway. Johann lived in an orphanage at the church, and a very trusting mother, who took care of the children, unknowingly gave them into slavery. It doesn't exactly match Jude's character… he has to grow up on something very malicious and truly cruel. Perhaps it was not out of ignorance, but out of desperation… Just a theory...

Okay… I'm done.

Here's a thought that I've had for a while and have decided to randomly share, but remember the post I mentioned about ragged schools?

Well, a part of their education was also prayer and religious instruction. I've thought this for a while now, but Jude doesn't seem to be very comfy with religion, and I've also noticed that some settings take place in the church.

Kind of going into spoilers here, so I'll add a cut. There’s no point to this post, it’s just an observation.

For example, in the first wedding event, Jude calls the chapel cursed amongst other things. Perhaps because that's where marriage vows are made and he believes love is a curse, but it could be other reasons.

In his first BD story, Kate is found unconscious in a church. I thought that was an odd random setting, but let's just say it could be significant?

In his bond level 7, he uses the term "root of all evil," when referring to love, but is usually reserved for money. (Which we know Jude needs a lot of.) The fact that he is using a play on words in a scriptural sense doesn't surprise me because back then religion was everything. I listen to a historical podcast, where it discussed how even during job interviews you'd be asked what church you were affiliated with.

Moving on, in Ellis' route, Jude refused to enter a church. I'm sure his reasoning for not being interested in going inside was valid somewhat, but I don't think that was the whole reason. I could be wrong though.

Now, in the second wedding event, he does go to a church to be wed, but that is to make Kate's dream to come true. (Awwww). In any case, he has the pastor escorted out right out so he can sign a contract with his wife.

Finally, from what I could tell, out of all the IkeVil suitors I think Jude mentions going to hell the most. Not that the others don’t, but it’s something he says quite a bit. I wonder if it’ll be a part of his lore at all?

[st1tch-p0p]

IMPORTANT MANDELA THEORY.

The intruders name (Six) means *OR* is supposed to parallele the Sixth Dimension. Im going to refrain from calling The Intruder "Six" because Im gonna talk alot about the Sixth Dimension, Yada-Yada and I dont wanna cause confusion.

On Alex's insta, someone asks a question about The intruder and the meaning of his name/ its meaning in general, to this Alex says "stay tuned".

Now I have a screenshot from and old video that Im pretty sure was unlisted from Alex's videos *OR* privated, this video is a "Trailer" for Mandela catalouge and features quite a bit of stuff that we havent seen in actual videos created, but what caught my attention was this frame from the video. It says '4th Dimension" and shows a cube inside a cube.

We know that Alternates themselves are "On different spectrums" which implies they can live in different planes and *POSSIBLY* different Dimensions of existance. So, that cube or the "4th Dimension" could mean that, Alternates live and/or are from the "4th Dimension".

We also know that Alex has stated that the Intruder isnt an alternate himself, and that he is something else entirely that *works* with Alternates.

This means that he is different in some way from Alternates that for some reason makes him special.

The Difference that divides Alternates from The intruder is that The intruder is on a *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT* spectrum, plane, or Dimension of existance *entirely*

Which is maybe why his name is literally Six. Its because he is on/in the Sixth Dimension We also know that this series isnt over yet so things can change, or we could get New information. Hold on to the idea of New information because im gonna take a LEAP stay with me.

The last screenshot says that Six-dimensional space is any space that has *six dimensions, six degrees of freedom, and that needs six pieces of data, or coordinates, to specify a location in this space.* There are an infinite number of these, but those of most interest are simpler ones that model some aspect of the environment. We have seen The intruder *SO FAR* in 4 different spectrums

1. Inside TVs ANALOG]

2. Physically [He has been called "the man in the corner"

which implies hes quite literally *HERE* in the moment

physically to be seen]

3. Inside dreams/nightmares [Adam says that The intruder

comes to him in a dream]

4. Inside Mirrors [Hes seen inside the girls mirror in the

newest Mandela catalouge video]

This all points to the fact that The intruder can appear on completely different spectrums. While we have only seen alternates appear physically and/or torment people mentally (inside dreams, nighmares, and hallucinations.)

So, the intruders name SIX paralleles the Dimension he exists inside.

[azrielsshadows42]

YOU GUYS!!!!

I've been re-reading the cruel prince and in chapter 1, it mentions three of Judes favorite toys when she was a child. The ones that she couldn't find it in her heart to throw them away

A koala, a black cat and most importantly...

A SNAKE.

This is why you always have to reread a good book at least once

[ryuutchi]

Wanting to theorize about the specific intersection of transmasculinity and oppression will make me sad and lonely and is wallowing my pain. I want to "wallow uncritically" by being interested in what we can learn by centering the experiences of misogyny-applicable ppl who take on masculine characteristics, roles, and gender. I'm certainly not feeling lonely, sad and alienated bc when transmascs even half-wave at a transmasc-focused theory of gendered oppression, ppl respond angrily and with insults,, There's no way that my alienation is bc I am constantly told that my pain is not worth discussing, and anyone who does must be sad, lonely, and wallowing.

[clockworkbee]

Jude's dress for Dain’s Coronation

I think it’s important that we note how Cardan had seen Jude in Liriope’s dress at Locke’s gathering, and according to Jude, he had spotted her while saving Sophie as well, even though she’d thought he hadn’t actually seen her, but come on? Faerie sight and Cardan always recognizing Jude?

So, I think it’s safe to say that he was mesmerized by the sight of her, both, in that dress, and in the dark, the woods behind her and the moonlight and whatnot, and that he’d decided he’d like to see her in the same style as the dress she wore at Locke’s, but in the colors he’d seen her (or envisioned her) in that night. I like to think that the seamstress incorporated both Dain’s and Cardan’s wishes, btw. It’s very likely, too, since Jude got to see her dress’s final look after the aforementioned two events. I know she thinks/says,

Over that is stitched the stark outlines of trees, the way I see them from my window as dusk is falling.

But can’t it be that her view of the trees from her window was similar to Cardan’s view of her, while she was helping the mortal girl?

[errethebunny]

Before the timer goes out, I'd like to share some theories about what's about to come in ikevil

possible spoilers ahead

Usually, it is on act 2 that the ikemen team usually announces the new characters of the season.

As we experienced in Ikemen Vampire, and Ikemen Prince, the new characters usually come to antagonize some of the previous suitors.

Which makes me believe the characters that would be antagonized by the new bunch, will be the characters that didn't have their routes out yet: Roger, Jude and Victor. In that order.

Maybe in Roger's route, we will learn about some other cursed person Roger tried to cure and wasn't successful (hence why he's very adamant about NOT being a doctor anymore). Maybe he thought his friend died, and now surprise! Guess who's back?

As for their curse, my thoughts go to The Big Bad Wolf from Red Riding Hood.

Pretty cliche, I know, but like Snow White, Red Riding Hood also has a Hunter, which would be perfect to explain their relation to one another, as well as determining their dynamic as the two big bad guys hunting Mc.

Now for Jude, I don't really think the new guy will necessarily be related to Briar Rose. But I definitely can see some money related curse. Maybe Robin Wood? Maybe. Definitely something thief related I think

It could be interesting, a character that hates rich people like Jude, however since Jude is rich himself, the character could steal some of Jude's stuff. It could be funny lol

I could keep going, but I think Victor deserves his own post.

[cromulentreader]

I always wondered who had hired Bryern to take care of Grima Mog - low-key insulted on Grima's behalf.

We know Cardan got word of the meeting. I assumed maybe he heard it from spies but it didn't make sense they would be staging an encounter. It is possible Cardan meant someone from the Living Council, since calling the spies councilors does sound overcomplicated when he was alone with Jude.

A couple guesses on the hirer:

- a member of the Living Council who believed Jude's claim before her exile or that Cardan would bring her back at some point (Randalin, most likely) and decided to throw Grima her way in hopes she got herself killed. This makes sense because they would have means to find Jude's employer. And they could tell Cardan about it easily enough.

- Asha, who knew for sure Jude was High Queen and wanted Cardan to get over her or something. I don't know if she had how to find the phoka, but she did have ways to intercepted the high king's correspondence - maybe she was working with someone in the living council and then she would have motive and means to relay the message to Cardan.

If you have the answer or theories let me know, I'd love to read your thoughts.

[mxqeme]

wish jude could help me with my math rn i know he'd be a real one

[littlefoxandthearcher]

saw a post that said Taryn (cruel prince) wasn’t a girls girl…

And ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS that Marisol is ALSO not a girls girl

Exhibit a-z

[thunder-bringer25]

Ok but important question, if we are right and Helen is Helen Distortion and not Helen Richardson, what if all the avatars directly killed by Jon came to tmagp?? Bc i don't think this Trevor is the same Trevor especially since he is a minister, of all things, and he's one of the ones that didn't get killed by Jon

[shatcey]

First of all, I wanna thank you for all your theories. You've spent a lot of time, read a lot of resources, and thought through every detail to come up with all this. It's really a lot of work, and I want to thank you for all of us who enjoy your theories so much.

But...

As usual...

I cannot say that I disagree with you, your arguments are very logical, but I look at it from a slightly different angle. Perhaps because my thoughts are based on another story. The last event. For obvious reasons, it's the most vivid in my memory.

Spoilers for the events "Dark IF". And the main routes of Will, Harry and Elbert. But I suppose everyone has already read them.

After I finished reading William's story in Dark IF event, I thought that maybe the story of this event is like a mirror image of the main route. After all, Will's story was very close to that. (Did you see I added Ally here?)

But...

Harrison's story has nothing to do with his main route. So my idea shattered to pieces. I can't say I'm upset about this. Actually, I'm very pleased, it would be very sad if they did so.

But since I've read two stories, I've noticed a certain tendency. I can't be sure, I haven't read all the stories, but I guess it must be the same for the others. Correct me if I'm wrong. The devs used the main theme of their routes in this story event.

Will's story is about how he behaves in the arrogant and self righteous way, as if everyone is beneath him and he is being judged for it. The same thing happens on his route. His destiny is to be judged by ordinary people whom he has been protecting all this time.

Harrison's story is about loneliness and isolation. And sometimes about despair. I don't wanna spoil too much before my summary, so I won't go into details. Harry is acting alone on his route, and he is destined to stay alone. Basically, it's about the same thing.

And what do we see in Jude's "Dark If"? I read it a long time ago and I remember it very vaguely. If I'm wrong, correct me.

Everyone hates and fears Jude. He basically lock himself in his library in order to achieve his goal, and seemed to not interested in anything else. Fixation, obsession… He doesn't seem to mind any of this. And there is no one who could really harm him (perhaps because he is not really alone, there is Ellis). So… this is isolation and hatred on the part of society. It can be very difficult for a sensitive person… this can be considered as a punishment. So this could lead to Harrison's loneliness or Ellis' punishment by justice (as you mentioned). And obsession with a goal can lead to Elbert's achieving nothing. But they've already used it… so I doubt it very much.

There is one more thing. I cannot get this thought out of my mind… The concept "Love is a curse". Perhaps its meaning is very simple. Love will kill him. So that's why it's easier for him to be hated than to be loved. That would explain why he's pushing Kate away so abruptly, why he is harsh with everyone. Because he is NOT ready to die before reaching his goal.

But I'm probably wrong. That's fine with me. I guess I like made-up ideas way too much. Thanks again. It was a lot of fun.

Jude Jazza Route Theories Pt. 4 - His Fated End ☾.

My theory posts include future major route spoilers for Ellis and Roger, please do not read if you don't wish to be spoiled.

This is my final theory post for Jude, and you know, for some reason I’m quite emotional about this. In any case, this is just for fun, and I'd love for you to share what you think his cursed fate is! ☾.

To be frank, I feel like his fated end could go several ways. Most of you know that most of my theories are formed around in-game lore, and more “realistic” approaches. And, yes I am going to do the same thing with this post of sorts, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have an imagination either.

For example, I’ve always thought (and still do think) it would be amazing if Jude’s fate was that he suffered not from immortality, but longevity. A sort of play off his Dark IF lore, and it's not something he could control himself. However, while a tiny part of hopes that this may still be the case, I feel like it won't be. So, onto the "realistic" theories??

What do we know? It seems that Jude can die. He almost dies all the time. Additionally, the prologue alludes to (as many other events do) that Jude wants to die, and he is potentially instigating his death by making enemies.

What could we base his demise on? While, I think the original fairytales are simply lovely, I don’t think they will be the basis. Still, they are what brought Jude to us by extension, so I feel like the following fates of the fairies, wise-woman, and other antagonists are worth an honorable mention. Very quickly, in the order they were written, their fates are:

Basile’s “Sun, Moon, & Talia”: The Queen is the antagonist and she ends up being cast into a fire that she had intend to cast Talia into.

Sentence: Death by immolation.

Perrault’s “The Sleeping Beauty In The Wood”: There are in fact two antagonists in this story. The 8th old fairy who curses the princess, and the ogre queen mother of the prince whom married the princess.

Sentence: There is no outcome written about 8th old fairy, this means her fate is open for interpretation. However, the ogress offs herself by jumping into a tub of vipers and toads.

Grimm Bro’s “Little Brier-Rose”: The shortest of the tales, in which the 13th wise woman (or fairy) curses the princess as well. It is implied that the old spinner the princess meets when she pricks her finger is the 13th fairy.

Sentence: There is no outcome written for the 13th fairy, this means her fate is left open for interpretation.

See why I don’t think they are going to be inspiration for Jude’s fate? I doubt that Jude will be thrown into a large cauldron to be eaten by serpents and toads. Although, it wouldn’t be too difficult for them to implement a death by fire of sorts. All in all, one of the good things about the obscurity regarding the fates of the other faeries is that it allows you for your own interpretation as to what happened to them.

Which leads me to Disney…..

For all intents and purposes, Disney did not create Sleeping Beauty as we’ve discussed, but Cybird has taken a lot of inspiration from it’s adaptions, and that’s because Disney has fleshed out the the villain Maleficent unlike majority of the fairytales. For example, even with Jude’s costume color design: Purple, black, and green are all odes to the 1959 Disney adaption. Even Dark If, where it’s mentioned that the humans and the faeries fought with one another, is a nod towards the 2014 Maleficent adaption.

So, what do I think Jude’s fate will be?

Main Theory: Jude is destined to die by the “sword of truth,”. It’s highly possible that Cybird may opt to use Disney’s destruction of Maleficent in the 1959 movie as inspiration for Jude’s fate. Why? Because they did the same thing for Ellis.

In his BLE Chapter 22, Roger tells Kate that Ellis is fated to die at the hands of justice, just like the the prince who hacked away the briar hedge with his sword - which is Disney’s version. Ellis’ predecessor was gunned down by the police, and therefore died by the “hands of justice.” In a similar vein, I feel that Cybird will follow a similar path somehow.

Perhaps, if Crown no longer protects him (or betrays him) and his sins become public knowledge, or if his enemies were to find out the truth of how Jude got the best of them, I think “death” will await him. In his route, I feel like the Privy Council will try to do something to frame Jude related to the drug/human-trafficking industry, when they themselves are the ones to blame.

Any in game lore to support this? Jude gets stabbed all the time. And… Roger’s route alludes to the drug industry (medicinal from our current understanding), as being Jude’s territory, so the Privy Council trying to oust Jude by involving him with illegal drugs is on the table, I think.

My other theory: And this is just something that I’m throwing out there, but I feel like Jude may be destined to be abandoned, or for lack of a better word, betrayed by everyone he loves.

I think that if he’s had a hard life (a parent/s left him behind), or suffered a loss of a loved one in death, or perhaps experienced the pain of seeing someone he was in love with leave him for another, would be the pinnacle of angst.

It would explain why he doesn’t want to curse or be cursed, because in the end, Kate would abandon or leave him too. Not saying she’d maliciously do it, but something might happen where she feels he’s acting in his best interest, but isn’t. Well, it’s just a thought I had from a bunch of random little things I felt I noticed in game, but I won’t even try to explain that. You could say that this is a more emotional theory of mine, but I don't think it holds much weight.

Naturally, Cybird can do something completely different, and honestly, as much as it would be cool to say, “I called it!” It would be nice if they did something completely unexpected, and maybe they will? I’d love to say, “I didn’t see that coming,” and cry my eyes out.

Whatever his fate is, it will be heartbreaking I’m sure, but I look forward to finally peering into his heart and watch him as he let’s Kate into his so he doesn’t have to share his burdens on his own.

Thanks to everyone whose read my theories and shared their theories with me, it's been a lot of fun! In any case, I’d love to hear what you all think his fate is about!

[st1tch-p0p]

IMPORTANT LORE!

When Thatcher is inside the Murray home. In the clip, he is being taunted by an alternate (whether its Six or N or whatever else) its clearly singing a Childs lullaby in a low, masculine voice. The lullaby that is being sung is called "Amazing grace". It was written by John Newton, and it's a common lullaby to sing to fussy or worried children.

This particular lullaby is also VERY biblical! (Explanation Later). Also,

I have brightened the video as much as possible, and as you can see, a hand reaches around the corner and flips the light switch out as, whatever it is, sings.

Looking at the arm, I will say that this might not be Six, the arm lacks, yknow, a characteristic hoodie sleeve and there is no discernible face or features that would point to Six. But, listening to the voice, it sounds an AWFUL lot like Six himself/ something he would do and say. In the speech to Adam, he refers to Adam as his "sweet boy", and says that "he kept him safe".

Going out on a limb here, but Jude and Lynn are divorced right? Which leaves just Lynn to watch Adam most of the time. But just maybe when she wasn't looking or paying attention, or doing something else (sleeping, out of the room etc) and Adam was being fussy or upset, Six would probably "fill the role" as dad and sooth Adam back to sleep via lullabies or whatever he could do. This might be why Six has such a "bond" with Adam, because Jude wasn't there at the house to be "dad". Yet most of this goes down the drain, as whatever it is, it doesn't look much, if at all, like the Six we know and love.

So this is maybe N OR some other Alternate. We also know N had some part in tormenting the murrays. This is seen when N follows Jude to the safe house and corners him in the closet. Jude proceeds to yell at the Alternate saying, "IT'S YOU! ITS FUCKING YOU. YOU TOOK EVERYTHING FROM ME- MY WIFE, MY CHILD." This implies N might not only have been the one singing the lullaby at the house, but this also might just mean N plays a way bigger role than we think, ESPECIALLY in the death and torment of the murrays.

Then again, this could all fall flat because we don't know FOR SURE, it is N, it could be another alternate, or it could just be a hoodie-less Six being really, really weird.

[EXPLAINATIONS]

Newton's view of redemption and divine grace formed his perspective that he considered himself a sinner so vile that he was unable to change his life or be redeemed without God's help.

The song is ALSO said to represent the ability of humanity to transform itself instead of a transformation taking place at the hands of God.

So do whatever you want with this information, but I think it holds some importance to Gabriels plan, or some kind of lore with the murrays.

[mary-mythos]

And since we're on the subject of MC theories, wtf was up with the whole "You followed the shepherd" thing????

Like, we know thanks to the new volume that the Shepherd is Jude Murray, so like... in what way is Adam following his dad??????

[mkmas]

maybe crack theory before the new event (that would hopefully give some new info) but

ellis in the halloween event said jude needs a lot of money and people to fulfill his promise.. is it to build something? if we connect this to the moonlight bond story, could it be that he wants to build a rocket or something that can go into the moon as a promise to someone??? he also said he doesn’t like that moon book he lent kate but it seems that he lied, it’s definitely important to him.

- in the hobbies story where he was reading books about physics and astronomy, he told kate he wanted ellis to look for the authors on the list. maybe he wanted to hire them? gather knowledge from them?

- i know rockets weren’t invented yet back then (maybe why he thinks it’s 99.9% impossible) BUT i think the book he mentioned was from the earth to the moon by jules verne and in that story, they made some kind of bullet to shoot to the moon. I might be extra reaching here but what if he said that part about the pictures in the book being enough to make you feel like you’re not crazy is like the inspiration for him since it’s impossible but at least he has a vision to go with

- i just think it’s odd how he randomly told kate that fact about the speed of going to the moon

- could be someone very important to him loved the moon so much

- or that short scene from his birthday story where he’s in an attic.. I can picture it as him seeing the moon as the only beautiful thing he can see (from his window) with his living condition being very bad so the moon served as a motivation ??

- again a random comment about the moon with him saying he doesn’t think it’s beautiful even if it’s not that night… whatever it is, there’s definitely smth going on with him and the moon

hoping the new event will give more hints or crumbs even the tiniest bits🫶 this was in my drafts from last year idk

[botanikos]

Crazy theory, Ok NOT to post if it's too much. You and doublejango will get married one day.

Weird Mun Theories !!

Oh boy, are there bells? Sirens? Kazoo? Does this theory make me look charming? Sksjsjs.

Not a bad theory, and I think it would be a happy ending! Though, admittedly, to some extent, I feel much the same way my Stolas does in regard to thinking marriage with myself is a bit of a lightly cursed thing.

That being said, I adore and love and cherish @doublejango and hope our sillt fairytale romantasy may possibly potentially come true! Who knows? Only us and the fates. ☆ The future is unpredictable, but no matter what, I will be there, unwavering, as a friend, a partner in crime, a support, an adventurer, and everything in-between!

[clockworkbee]

The Cruel Prince, chapter 15

The Queen of Nothing spoilers!

I do still wonder, though. If this particular instruction was from Dain or Cardan. Seems to me that it was from Dain and that Cardan later on instructed to have it sown in a different fabric, and based on the result, the seamstress probably indulged both the princes.

I also wonder what exactly was the reason while also holding on to the theory that he did so because Locke had planned to ask for Taryn’s hand in marriage and since Cardan was the only one who could really tell which twin was which, he probably told his circle of friends that they’d be able to tell by the dresses the twins would be wearing.