#jon snow asos i

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

We need to talk more often about how clever was Jon on his first meeting with Mance at ASOS. The boy knew that despite the guest right protecting him ( since he had already eaten at Mance's table) he was still in a dangerous position so he had to choose his words carefully in order to survive. So what did he do once Mance asked him why he deserted?

First, he brought some extra time to himself - so he could think more carefully what to answer - by taking a long drought of mead. Then his great observation skills paid off, as he correctly had observed that Mance was a man who liked to talk about himself. So when Jon asked him to reveal first his reasons for his own desertion of the Night's Watch, Mance gladly took the bait. And by doing so, he learned more about his opponent and his values. That made Jon more prepared to give an answer which would satisfy Mance once his turn of talking came.

They say that the best lies are based on truth, and that's what Jon does with his answer to Mance. He's not lying when he implies that he was jealous because he wasn't allowed to attend on the central table along with his family and the royal family. Back on his first chapter in AGOT, where that feast took place, it was crystal clear that Jon was jealous and he was drinking too much trying to forget. However, what he didn't tell Mance there was that his love for his family, his brothers at the Wall and the North in general is so much bigger than any negative feelings he had.

[greywoe]

"The she-wolf laid into the squires with a tourney sword, scattering them all. The crannogman was bruised and bloodied, so she took him back to her lair to clean his cuts and bind them up with linen."

[buildoblivionthenwewilltalk]

“Robb will rule, you will serve. Men will call you a crow. Him they'll call Your Grace. Singers will praise every little thing he does, while your greatest deeds all go unsung." - ACOK

“Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice” - ASOS

[aregebidan]

agot-acok recap aka someone please let the exhausted middle schoolers out of here

ID in alt

[long-claw]

there's a very small but distinct change from book to show in s3e9 that i think is fascinating. right before the red wedding, catelyn and roose bolton are discussing edmure and roslin's bedding ceremony, and when bolton references catelyn's own bedding, she says this:

"Oh, Ned forbade it. He said it wouldn't be right if he broke a man's jaw on our wedding night."

whereas in the book, not only does this conversation not happen, but catelyn specifically recounts her bedding happening and makes no mention of ned being opposed at all.

i don't know for sure why this change was made but if i had to guess i'd say it was at least partly to make ned more likable to a modern audience. it's almost as if they were trying to make ned fit his reputation "better" but i actually think it misunderstands it completely.

ned is known throughout westoros as being "honourable", within westoros culture. the bedding ceremony isn't seen as being "dishonourable", it's tradition. ned going against that wouldn't add to his honourable reputation, it would make him some weird progressive guy that shuns tradition.

but the one time he does shun tradition is by bringing jon home and giving him a place in his family, and i think the change in the show takes away from just how strange that was for ned to do. ned stark conforms to tradition perfectly, except for that one smudge.

[sare11aa11eras]

Like I DO like to make the joke that “Jon was the better brother who supported his younger sisters’ claims to Winterfell lolz” but like Actually:

That choice wasn’t about them. Either of them.

It wasn’t about feminism either.

He very much DID want Winterfell and is kind of bitter about everything

He ultimately decides that, although he might be an oathbreaker already so maybe it wouldn’t be worse to go full hog and take Stannis’s offer, he DEFINITELY can’t hand over the Godswood to be burned by Melisandre bc that would DEFINITELY go against his religion. So he’s not doing that.

It takes him like a loooooooonnnnggggg while, a dip in a hot tub, and a reunion with the beating heart of his soul via Ghost in order to come to this conclusion

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

random but it struck me that age is just another parallel/anti-parallel that Jon and Jaime will share. Jaime was 16/17(?) when he made the fateful choice to kill Aerys, which forever besmirched his honor and caused him to be “the Kingslayer” (deragatory). Jon was about the same age, 17/18, when he made the fateful decision to march south against the Boltons, something that will undoubtedly dent his already shaky reputation and could cause him to be “the deserter” (also deragatory).

We always talk about how Jaime stagnated and wallowed in his nihilism after Aerys’ death, never growing or maturing past that point; in a way, he was always mentally stuck at 17. Jon could very well die given the wounds he received during the mutiny, and though he will be revived, he will be always be physically stuck at 17, never maturing past that point. But I think Jon has been more successful in a way that Jaime never was in that he figured out quite early (when he was 15) that though he may lose his honor, he must keep pushing for the greater good. He understood the concept of “a bastard’s honor”, and is even more fortunate to receive Tyrion’s lesson of using one’s lowly position/lack of honor to his advantage, which he has been doing to enact what he considers to be the moral goods (ref “bastard” “guilty of that, at least”). P.S: I also think it’s funny given Aemon’s advice to kill the boy in order for the man to be born. Ironic that Jon will always be a boy physically.

Jaime grew physically but not so much mentally. Jon grows mentally (it’s actually his strong suit as a character how much he matures with each book) but he will have sacrificed the ability to age normally as a boy would. Jaime lost his honor at ~17 and is characterized but years of (mental) inaction. I think Jon, on the other hand, will lose his honor but will be more and more prone to making decisions, because to hell with it all.

[catofoldstones]

Something also has to be said about Robb being the first person to tell Jon that he can’t be the lord of Winterfell because he’s bastard-born and then actively advocating for Jon inheriting after Robb and naming him the successor to Winterfell in his will.

[mummersblade]

Jon (AGOT) and Arya (ASOS) doubting if Robb will take them as they are, a deserter of the Night's Watch and a young girl forced to kill to survive

Jon (AGOT) and Arya (ASOS) knowing they would be unconditionally accepted by one another

Jon (ADWD) and Arya (AFFC) seeing each other as home

[rosaluxembae]

It wasn't until I read the chapter where Jon mentions that he might have been a lord in the resettled gift for the second time, that I realised that if he reversed Stark colours, as is customary for bastards, it'd be a white direwolf like Ghost.

Like obviously I knew he got the albino one because it's like the misfit and he's the bastard, and they talk about it but I hadn't realised that it was the same as the Stark sigil reversed, or the significance of it.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

The concept of freedom on ASOS JON I:

The first chapter of Jon Snow on ASOS is an important one in terms of world building as we finally get to visit the Free folk camp and witness their way of life. It's also a chapter where the subject of freedom and what it means to be free is heavily featured and that is something I wanted to share my views on.

Ygritte informs Jon that he's a free man. Jon very much doubts it and question whether he's free to leave the free folks. To which Ygritte replies that he's free to do so but her people are also free to kill him for his choice.

This conversation proves what Jon already knew; that despite what Ygritte or any other from the free folk might say, he's far from being a free man. He's still being watched closely and on the first mistake he makes he's gonna lose his head.

Ygritte believes that all brothers of the night's watch secretly want to abandon their order " in your hearts you all want to fly free" but since we read Jon's pov chapter we know that this ain't true for the boy.

In a way, Jon is like Orell's eagle. On this chapter the bird is shown to fly free:

Somewhere above an eagle soared on great blue-grey wings, while below came men and dogs and one white direwolf.

The reality is sadder thought, since the bird is controlled by its new warg master. Similarly, Jon while being told he's "free" is anything but that.

Later on Mance shares his own reasons for abandoning his post on the Night's Watch and -you guessed it - it has lots to do with freedom or the lack of it. When he was attacked by a shadowcat beyond the Wall, he was healed by a woman belonging to the free folk who mended his torn cloak with red silk. For Mance, this cloak was important but for the Night's Watch it was unacceptable to let him keep a cloak that wasn't totally black. This lack of freedom was what lead him to abandon the order.

Before his first appearance on page, it was easy to imagine Mance as the antagonist to the Night's Watch who was a traitor at his core. But this chapter with his introduction and his backstory did a great job humanising him. It also gives food for thought, about what is freedom and how important is (or isn't) to each individual compared to other virtues.

[alaynestcnes]

finally finished my asos reread. i forgot how diabolical the last chapters are like what do you mean we get deeply introspective jon admitting to his desires for winterfell and lordship and children and comparing ghost to a weirwood and ‘he belonged to the old gods, this one’ and then denying all his desires bc winterfell belongs to the old gods too and he chooses to deny his claim bc his love for the starks supersedes everything and then thinks of val up in her tower ‘i am not the man to steal you out of there’ and then immediately he’s raised up to lord commander and then next chapter we get sansa as a bastard abruptly waking up to snowfall and being drawn to the yard that was meant to be a godswood but no weirwood can take root and ‘the eyrie was no home’ and ‘a godswood without gods, as empty as me’ and ‘she stepped out all the same’ and then the snow is like lovers kisses and like innocence and dreams and she literally rebuilds winterfell out of snow but her momentary peace is shattered by ‘dawn stealing into her garden like a thief’ and men who only want her for her beauty and claim and then she’s almost thrown out of a tower. like oh my goddddd

[babybells123]

I recently posted about Sansa Stark on TikTok particularly concerning themes of beauty, love and romanticism (Jonsa if you SQUINT)!! It’s gotten over 2000 likes so far, and the comments have all been positive, but I just received a comment saying “Aegon VI will save her” and had to resist the urge to scratch my eyes out …

Look, I for one want nothing more than for Sansa to be with a man who loves her undoubtedly (and chooses her over her claim, countering all the previous men who have been betrothed to/married to/attempted to abuse Sansa). But I find it incredibly ironic that this is likely an individual who is aware of the Ashford Tourney (hell, maybe they’re even aware of the really subtle Targaryen imagery in Sansa’a chapters - but only if they’re in conjunction with Aegon VI, certainly not the secret cousin who just so happens to also be a Targaryen)… but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are an alt shift x fan who has watched his brief Ashford Tourney video which barely scratches the surface of the theory (and I too, enjoy Alt’s videos so don’t get me wrong here) but here’s what bothers me - why is the fandom so incredibly intent on ‘proving’ that it is Aegon?

He could be the loveliest, kindest man alive and I still wouldn’t budge on my stance of this marriage doing absolutely nothing to progress Sansa’s narrative arc organically.

How does it challenge her belief of conventionality? Particularly concerning southern ideals of beauty? What is the whole point of Sansa retracting from her current journey, travelling South yet again to marry a man whom she’s never met before? We’ve already been made privy to how wary Sansa is of Harry the Heir, for he could be a “comely monster,” she knows that beauty is deceptive - so already she’d be experiencing those similar feelings of despair … What purpose would it serve to send Sansa back to King’s Landing? A place where she was abused and married against her will? The place where her father was murdered in front of her eyes? The place where she was hostage with no true friends and no family to trust or rely on? Walking on eggshells every day of her life? These are all negative associations. Anyone with eyes and a brain can see that Sansa’a arc is pointing North.

This is the same girl who spends hours building a scale model of her home, Winterfell - in the snow. This is the same girl who refers to herself as the blood of Winterfell, the daughter of Lord Eddard and Lady Catelyn - who derives strength from that in the face of her abuser. This is the same girl who at the age of 11, manages to dissociate when faced with the head of her father on a spike, looking North and North until she can see Winterfell in her mind’s eye, whose direwolf - part of her soul, is buried in the North ; who to quote Ned “belongs in the North.” This is the same girl who has been passed around like a vessel of politics since her very first betrothal. Who has been viewed as nothing more than a claim to a vast Kingdom, who is not allowed to exercise that claim in her own right. Who has been denied her inheritance on the basis of her marriage to Tyrion - not just by Stannis , but also by the brother she has loved and idolised (and isn’t that just heartbreaking for Sansa?) - need I remind you of the one single person in this entire series who has not overhauled Sansa’s claim ? Despite it being the one thing he’s ever truly wanted? His hearts most intrinsic desire??

“By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa." (Jon I ADWD)

“Jon said, "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa." (Jon IV ADWD).

I mean, those two phrases in conjunction with;

“It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love.” (Sansa VI ASOS) - which as we know, is followed by a Jon chapter just a page later.

Jon has already unknowingly refuted half of Sansa’s despairing words, as well as silently fulfilling those knightly ideals she believes no longer exist.

So yeah, it annoys me beyond belief when people “theorise” that Sansa will marry Aegon VI/Young Griff. Because it removes her agency yet again, it pushes her further away from her identity and her home that she has slowly but surely been reclaiming - she goes five steps backwards, and regardless of whether you like her character or not, from a writing perspective and how character arcs are meant to unfold - it really doesn’t make sense for her to go back to the place where she has been tormented for most of the series - but then, who am I kidding - these are the same people who don’t believe sansa is an important character and that her arc will either remain stagnant or she’ll just be pushed out of the way whilst other characters are allowed narratively conclusive endings.

But even with all this, even with Valarr Targaryen being a non-Targaryen looking prince with brown hair described as a black prince with a white guardian (gee, I wonder whose image THAT invokes), even with GRRM sitting down and writing a family tree where a Jonnel ‘One Eye’ Stark marries a half niece called Sansa Stark to solve a succession crisis. Quite literally spelling it out on paper for people this fandom just cannot come to any logical conclusions that would make sense narratively, thematically, politically and on a character level. It truly blows my mind.

*sigh.* I’m very tired.

Anyway, to quote GRRM; resolve to be Sansa Stark and take the North. ✌️

[thesunsethour]

jon snow and sansa stark / honourable lies

samwell iv ASOS

sansa i, AFFC

[acertifiedmoron]

lots of disappointing interpretations of asoiaf character arcs just seem to be taking their adwd end points as their final states, so bran currently living in the cave of wonders/horrors -> bran turns into a tree forever and never returns to winterfell; dany hallucinated jorah saying, "dragons plant no trees" -> she's doomed to repeat her (fore)father's mistakes; tyrion post-asos is suicidally depressed and having a richard iii winter of our discontent moment -> he's evil now and will retroactively justify every vile, dehumanising remark ever made about him. which is why i want to know. where are the jon snow understanders who think jon's dead for real and not being resurrected. where are they. i would like their opinions.

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

Everyone arguing about Stannis, JonCon, Jaime, god forbid Jorah being the 1000th commander of the NW….when it will be Jon again 🌚