#jet redemption

[coralpaperthoughts]

I will never understand ppl who hate/anti ANY of the members of the Gaang, or even any of the other kids. coz they are just kids. in the middle of a fucking war. of course they're gonna fuck up and make mistakes and be little shits, THEY ARE 12-16 !! ALL OF THE GAANG (including Zuko but excluding Suki) HAVEN'T HAD PROPER SOCIALISATION WITH OTHER KIDS THEIR AGE UNTIL THEY MET EACH OTHER !!

and yes, you could argue that Katara and Sokka had each other, but that's siblings and siblings are not the same as friends, and also Sokka was the only teen boy left in the tribe and I think Katara was the only teen girl too (might be wrong there tho)

you could also argue that Aang had friends before he got stuck in the iceberg so he did actually have that socialisation, but bro is fucking 12 and he was stuck in an iceberg for a hundred fucking years and had the whole avatar thing weighing down on his shoulders, cut the boy some slack ???

Toph and Zuko were both Rich Noble Kids™ so they automatically did not get proper socialisation with other kids their age. Toph was sheltered from the outside world because she's blind and a young girl, but yes she did go to that underground boxing ring but that was mainly adults, I highly doubt she was hanging about with kids there and definitely not in normal circumstances.

And although Mai and Ty Lee were there, they were Azula's "companions" (not originally meant to be friends but may have ended up as so after the war) and they weren't there for Zuko, they were there for Azula only. I'm pretty sure Zuko spent most of his time with tutors or with his mother before she left, he didn't get any socialisation with normal kids and he definitely did not get a normal childhood.

None of them got a normal childhood, so can you really blame any of them for being manipulative or assholes or doing dumb shit, whilst still being a kid/teen !!! and then being bad parents too, when they literally have no good role model to go off of (love Hakoda but bro was not there for his kids for a good couple of years and that does a lot to a kid)

edit: also Azula deserved a redemption/healing arc because she was a victim of abuse as much as Zuko was. she was in fact just a child, as much as the rest of them were, and deserved better. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk 🙏

edit 2: Jet also deserved a chance at healing. like bro watched his village burn and was the sole survivor, he probably has mega survivor's guilt that isn't touched upon in the show, like his hate for the fire nation is pretty rational and his actions (to an extent) are justified. all I'm saying is that if he had anybody else in his corner, that wasn't more angsty, out-for-revenge teens or kids, he could have had a much nicer life. one that didn't lead him to his downfall.

[the-magnificent-otaku-draws]

The boys come back from the Boiling Rock

[five-flavor-soup]

This is technically in response/as an addition to a post on the supposed ‘double standard’ in the fandom between Zuko and Jet as Katara’s love interests, but it’s been so long since it was posted and I figured the OP would be entirely uninterested in my word vomit, especially after like one and half years—so, separate post. I added a link for those interested. There's a cut because this got quite long lmao.

In short, the post supposes the argument that though Jet would’ve made Katara kill people (something Zuko very much Did Not Do, no matter what you think about The Southern Raiders), he cleaned up his act after this. Zuko, on the other hand, did lots of Really Bad Things to Katara & Co. with far more frequency than Jet did and got redeemed after a multitude of episodes doing Various Things Moste Evile. To then slap Jet with The Toxic Ex-label and see Zuko as the ‘healthier’ and ‘better’ option creates a Double Standard(™) within the fandom, which is supposedly bad and not an arguably incorrect reading. 

But the differences in fandom perception between Jet and Zuko as Love Interests for Katara (one of which canonically, and the other potentially and apparently talked about in the writer’s room) are easily explained, as can the Supposed Double Standard—just by thinking about it from Katara’s viewpoint, or even the audience’s. Because, well, the worst things Jet ‘almost’ ended up doing didn’t happen because of outside interference only. 

That’s the important bit here. He 100% would’ve drowned an entire village just to get rid of a handful of Fire Nation soldiers, had Sokka not managed to evacuate everybody. He 100% would’ve grievously injured two people who, as far as Jet and everybody else were aware, were refugees who might not even be firebenders — considering nobody else saw Iroh heat up his tea, he could’ve been wrong — in an attempt to prove his own hunch. Had the guards not been there, had Zuko not been able to fight back with swords, Jet would’ve genuinely attempted to wound them for as much as a puff of smoke. And Jet consistently involves bystanders (innocent or not) in his desperate quest to harm and defeat the Fire Nation: the Gaang (and particularly Katara, through explicitly manipulative means) and the villagers in Jet; Zuko, Iroh, and the people in the teashop in City of Walls and Secrets. Additionally, we don’t see more violence from him because he’s not a main character like Zuko is—though it’s implied that Jet beats up villagers who are supposedly in cahoots with the Fire Nation often, only agreeing to turn over a new leaf when he, Smellerbee, and Longshot decide to move to Ba Sing Se. 

Zuko explicitly and frequently doesn’t harm people: that, or it isn’t important to the plot. He doesn’t burn down the village on Kyoshi, he literally only manages to lightly singe it. He threatens people with violence frequently but never actually goes in for the kill. I’d argue that the most explicitly violent thing he does in Book 1 is breaking Aang out of the Pouhai Stronghold—for his own ends obviously, but if it’s spelled like treason and sounds like treason, it’s probably treason. When he thinks of robbing the pregnant couple while he’s on the run, he stops himself of his own volition; when he considers using Appa to catch Aang (this was a point made against Zuko in the post), he’s unaware of what Appa’s been through prior to that point and sees him as no more than an animal used for travel, much like the ostrich horse he stole earlier in the season. 

Zuko’s schtick throughout Book 1 and 2 is that he doesn’t want to think of the consequences of his actions. His plans are never fully complete. He doesn’t think of how he’s going to get a chained, notoriously slippery little eel of an Avatar to the Fire Nation, and he doesn’t think about what would happen to twelve-year-old Aang after they got there—which is horrible of him, but it also shows an odd, ignorant kind of innocence that you’d associate with a kid who’s got a hard time telling right from wrong. Like, I love Zuko dearly, adore him even, but kiddo doesn’t think ahead until the Book 2 finale and even that’s debatable. He’ll eventually start thinking ahead a little bit but for the most part, he doesn’t. Not saying that takes away responsibility, because it absolutely doesn’t, but it is telling of Zuko’s character: he’s an ‘act first, think later’-kind of guy, all ‘fuck around; find out; maybe success’. His sole goal throughout Book 1 and 2 is going home, without even thinking on how to get there beyond like, Avatar in my custody => back in Fire Nation with Avatar => dad loves me again. And he says that his only intention is to go home too, in Ep 2 of Book 1:

Aang: If I go with you, [He holds his staff in front of him as an offer, making sure Zuko understands that he does not wish to continue fighting.] will you promise to leave everyone alone? [The camera cuts to a side-view of the area, Zuko's men still surrounding him, spears poised. After a brief moment of hesitation, Zuko erects himself and nods in agreement. Aang is apprehended by Zuko's men, who take his staff . . . ] Zuko: [Boarding the ship up the walkway. Determined.] Head a course for the Fire Nation. I'm going home.

(Added emphasis for my point)

Zuko is not the Big Bad. He’s not The Largest Threat. He never is. In Book 1 it’s Zhao, in Book 2 it’s Azula, and in Book 3 it’s Ozai. Zuko is a consistent threat, yes, but not a particularly large one no matter how good of a fighter he is. Because he’s presented to us as a disastrously hurt and traumatised little brat who we, the audience, are supposed to feel sorry for, and slowly grow fond of. Because we learn in The Storm that the notion of “caring for others is weak” has literally been branded into him. Because he keeps getting back up to fight, but consistently holds back. We are shown that he knows, on some level, that what he’s doing is wrong: the text suggests that Zuko is actively suppressing his morals. And by the time Zuko hires an assassin to ensure the Avatar is dead, we know that Zuko is incredibly unhappy with his choice(s) and is desperate to be safe; that he’s uncomfortable but wants to be comfortable; that he’s incorrect about the source of his fear while he’s back in the palace. The audience is shown this explicitly. 

By contrast, we’re shown that Jet is fully aware that those villagers will die. He’s fully aware that, if he manages to prove the two refugees are firebenders, they’ll be arrested and probably mutilated (if the hand-crushing is any indication). I love Jet and his character, but he’s supposed to be the example of poisoning yourself with your hatred, anger, and hurt. He’s revenge that goes too far, because he doesn’t allow himself closure. He knows the consequences and isn’t shown to care for them, as long as his goal is furthered.

And there is the small, but significant, difference between the two characters: Zuko initially just wants to capture the Avatar, is purposefully remaining unaware of what will happen when he does so, and is clearly shown to change, while Jet just wants to punish firebenders and is very aware of what will be necessary for him to do so, with a handful of lines of how he ‘stopped being like that’. And honestly, Jet is far more mature than Zuko is for quite some time, regarding the violence of war—basically as mature as Zuko eventually becomes at the tail-end of his redemption arc. But Zuko’s maturity is at that point healthier, because he doesn’t want to genuinely do harm. 

In regards to their separate relationships with Katara, there’s these fantastic points that @sokkastyles made in reply to the post:

The fact that Zuko actually did change and Katara actually forgave him makes ALL the difference. [ . . . ] The thing about Jet is how manipulative he was with Katara. He not only almost made her kill innocents, but he lied to her about the man he attacked having a knife when he was called out, so that Katara would see her as righteous. Someone who is willing to lie in order to make themselves seem good and someone who says they are going to change but then does the same things doesn’t have a good track record, and that’s a more troubling relationship dynamic than someone who acts as an upfront enemy but then sincerely changes.

And: 

I do think it makes sense to focus on manipulation being worse than being a cartoon villain when we're talking about personal relationships. I think many people can relate to having someone like Jet in their lives who seems nice but who lies and manipulates to justify their own bad behavior despite repeatedly claiming that they will change. Not that many people will experience being tied to a tree by someone who wants you to tell them where the Avatar is, and it is completely reasonable for people to be more forgivable of things Zuko did as a villain than things Jet did to Katara when he claimed to be a friend.

I actually don’t have anything to add to this, lol. It’s succinct and well-worded.

Lastly, in addition the relatability and the relationships being different (the manipulative, emotionally hurt, and self-proclaimed anti-hero versus the initially childish, explicitly confused and desperate cartoon villain, plus the girl they hurt horribly), there’s also the problem of Jet not being a main character. Jet is a relatively well-written side character, whilst Zuko is very quickly established as a main-ish character with his own POV (as the writers decided during the conceptualisation that he’d be joining Team Avatar eventually). Zuko’s troubling, self-destructive nature that has been forced upon him and his Tragic Childhood is shown in high definition. The audience is supposed to eventually be okay with Zuko and hopefully like him, slowly adding puzzle pieces to complete the picture of a horrific earlier youth and treatment by nearly everybody he knows except Iroh. Something like this isn’t necessary with Jet, not just because he was already incredibly likeable and understandable from his introduction and onwards, but also because he’s neither a villain nor a main character. 

There’s multiple reasons as to why Zuko is often seen as the ‘better’ option, just like there are multiple reasons why Jet and Zuko are compared so frequently—they’re both traumatised teenage boys who ‘rebel’ to get some semblance of control back, but we see Zuko change into a kid anyone would be a little bit proud and fond of and that doesn’t happen with Jet. Double standard or not, Zuko and Jet are different characters who the writers also treated very differently, on purpose. It makes sense to me that the audience would think Zutara is the ‘less bad’ or far better option. We know far more about Zuko than we know about Jet; and Jet’s redemption arc, if we can even call it that, halts permanently when Zuko’s is reaching the height it for him to go into a freefall, ultimately culminating in a genuine redemption. We, the audience, know this. So does Katara.

[omgwhatchloe]

when i see other peoples rdr2 modern aus like working at mcdonald’s and thanksgiving and trick or treating and old fishing photographs…i realise my modern au vision of getaway drivers, night clubs, helicopters, bank robberys, explosions, heists, secret hideouts, flashy cars, prison breakouts, alcohol shots and other stuff must’ve gone really wrong somewhere…

[wereh0gz]

Most important part of the newest issue

[atwas-gaming]

Sonic gets a speedy green rival that's totally full of himself and, IMO, kinda ugly.

Why does this sound so familiar?

Ok, maybe the rest of these guys aren't so ugly, but they're still speedy and green and totally full of themselves, and rivals for Sonic.

I sense a pattern emerging...

[innocentimouto]

Do you think the show/franchise should acknowledge that Jet Is one of Iroh’s victims?

Do you mean because the Rough Rhinos were under Iroh's command (or at least their leader was)?

At first I thought no, just because the show moved on from Iroh's flaws and never gave us anything in terms of his victims. I don't see them doing it, let alone doing it right. Also Jet would get even more hate.

But say they could do it right. Then yes, it would be incredible. Even if Jet still died, so long as it was made clear to characters like the Gaang or Zuko and Iroh that he was one of Iroh's victims, I would be happy.

Whatever opinions there are about Jet's actions in war, he did something. He was resourceful and strong; he could have fled somewhere else or survived on his own (however long that would last considering the war). But he chose to help others.

Iroh never did that. I don't think Iroh helped Zuko either, but say he did. One, that's not great when Zuko was invading Sokka and Katara's home or when capturing the avatar. Two, Iroh still never helped anyone in the war against the Fire Nation until the very end.

It makes sense for a character like Jet to be the one to hate Iroh and make it clear that just because the man is elderly and kind doesn't mean he didn't do horrible things in war and then became content with doing nothing to fix it.

It even fits within the storyline. They met on the way to BSS. Zuko's arc needs to go somewhere. Iroh's arc has been stagnant for a while. Jet's trauma hasn't been properly conveyed. Having Jet bring up what Iroh has done, in detail, possibly with victims from Iroh's siege against BSS, would be a great way to force Iroh to be confronted with his actions and forced to give his thoughts on it.

Does he care? Does he care beyond feeling remorse? Has he ever thought about helping people against the Fire Nation?

It also helps Zuko's arc. He's still on the Fire Nation's side, but he's seen the other nations are just regular people. Would having Iroh state whatever his views are on this affect Zuko? If Iroh just brushed it all away with a small shake of the head and some words about letting anger go, would that make Zuko uncomfortable? Because now he has faces to possible victims. And Jet is great with words and can definitely hurt people with them, so I doubt he would stay quiet at whatever Iroh would say.

Or would Zuko simply not care and side with Iroh because he's always known what Iroh had done? Zuko burned a village down himself. Only thing he's done lately is complain about poverty.

It could go either way for them, but I think things would be clear with the Gaang. If confronted with Jet's words, and neither Zuko nor Iroh care or offer much in return, I don't think the Gaang would be that receptive to accepting Zuko later.

The Gaang has never heard Zuko say the Fire Nation propaganda he was fed all his life. I doubt they would forget it if he somehow justified the Air Nomads being massacred. I doubt Sokka, Aang, or Katara would be okay if he justified waterbenders being killed.

Calling someone a peasant or trying to kill them is one thing, but hearing someone explain to you why your people were wiped out and that it was right is not something most people will forget.

(Also we can get development with Toph and her thoughts on the war. And Suki wouldn't get her words about her village being destroyed turned into a joke. Also Haru, because fellow earth kingdom kid who most likely heard terrifying tales of the Dragon of the West.)

And seeing their reactions---horror, grief, rage, pain---no matter how behind Zuko could be on his arc, that would stay with him. He's a teenager. He's hotheaded and selfish and entitled. But he's not a monster. He feels emotions. And while I disagree strongly that he had a good redemption arc, by BSS, he at least had some doubts about some things.

It's an established way to bring Iroh's character back to morally flawed, which is good. Too many things are canon for Iroh to be anything better than that. He learned firebending from the dragons, but still continued killing innocent people? He stood by while Zuko got burned? He let Ozai take the throne without ever challenging him despite being the rightful heir and supposedly realizing the war was wrong?

Iroh had the best chance to at least slow the Fire Nation before Aang appeared. The thing about Iroh is that he's always been content to sit back and not do anything. He wanted Zuko to make tea with him within the walls while the war was coming to a close and we're expected to believe he cares about the wellbeing of other nations? About the war itself? Iroh was one of the strongest firebenders in the world. He had a responsibility to at least atone for the deaths he caused, if not outright confront Ozai.

If you meant that Jet got brainwashed because of Iroh and then eventually killed?

I don't really blame Iroh for Jet's death. I strongly side-eye Iroh for acting completely innocent about what Jet was rightfully saying despite Iroh supposedly regretful for his actions in the war and yet not caring at all that he got an innocent kid arrested by police that everyone knew were capable of making people disappear.

[ssreeder]

Hi ssreeder, this isn't really a question, and I have never used tumblr before, so I'm still getting used to it... but I made an account because I wanted to let you know that I've been reading the LIAB series. I'm finishing the last chapter in book 2 tonight, and I'm so excited to start the final book. I've laughed, I've cried, I've yelled at my phone when Ara and Jet made me want to rip out my hair (*sighs* good times). But, seriously, thank you for putting this series out for us to enjoy. I believe this is one the longest stories I've read ( the longest would probably be Crimson Rivers). And I'm excited to see to where you take us with your story.

Again, thank you

*pretend I'm doing the Fire Nation gesture of bowing to say 'Thank you'*

~Dr. S.L~

OHH HEY THERE!!! I have seen your comments coming through I’m sorry I haven’t been able to respond to them I’ve been slacking! But yeah usually I’m faster at answering on tumblr (at least I try!!) so I’m happy you made one!!

YOU FINISHED RIA?! WOW that’s awesome! ITF starts rough but it calms down before ramping back up again lol. I’m so glad you’re enjoying & it’s so nice of you to come to tumblr to share your kind words!! I APPRECIATE YOU!!!

I look forward to reading more comments from you (if you keep leaving them no pressure!)

warning though! My tumblr space is not spoiler free but if you block the tag ITF it’ll keep everything from the last book hidden! At least it SHOULD (tumblrs janky)

THANKS FOR THE KIND ASK!!!

[eowynneigh]

Also the Armand trauma thoughts are COOKING (bc I’m reading The Vampire Armand) and they will continue to cook post whatever goes on in the end of season 2 because no matter what he does it’ll only serve to spice the soup that is his whole way of being which SCREAMS unprocessed trauma + unhealthy trauma-induced coping mechanisms like someone get that boy into EMDR therapy!!!!

[karlyuchka]

Twitter is calling Jet from ATLA Hitler, I fucking can't. Calling fictional characters actual terrible historical figures is already fucked up. But Jet is Hitler and not Ozai or goddamn Sozin? Sozin, who actually ordered an actual genocide? Crazy stuff.

All of the quotes are crazy actually. That's just the most crazy one. Literally one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented characters in ATLA.

[lechugapagana]

The disappointment of entering the Jet/Katara tag on Ao3 and seeing that 90% of the fics published correspond to Suko/Katara or Aang/Katara and Jet is just the undesirable ex.... 😑

[sokkastyles]

You know, what I find funny about the argument that we can't criticize Azula for being horrible if we don't equally criticize Zuko, even though one stopped being a violent fascist and the other didn't, is that this argument also seems to run current with the insistence that Azula deserves redemption because Zuko was redeemed.

But this argument inherently contradicts itself, because if Zuko's redemption doesn't matter, if we should treat theoretical redemption as the same as the real thing, if Zuko should still be condemned despite his redemption, why would Azula's theoretical redemption make her exempt from criticism? If Zuko is still just as bad as Azula after being redeemed, then why would Azula being redeemed even matter?

These people just talk in word circles and think they're actually saying something, but they're telling on themselves. They don't want Azula to be redeemed, they want her to never have to face consequences.

[the-magnificent-otaku-draws]

Jetko but Jet is part of the gaang

[nerice]

recovery day 46: i don't think i am in active (inflammation) pain. it's hard to tell bc exercises will cause muscle pain (as they do) and ive started to also work out the rest of my upper body bc there are limits to wrist buffness + all my physio guys keep telling me i have perfect range of motion etc it probably rly rly is just a matter of waiting for the body recovery process to catch up..... obv not gonna stop doing the stretches n massages. also should take more time to do progressive muscle relaxation etc just to be safe. i don't think i should've jumped into typing quite that quickly again im just not rdy yet (or keep it to smaller increments of like 10-30mins a day). pining for japan mostly just bc i will be too busy to be on my phone or laptop all the time. it has to fix me it will be my holy grail

[p2ii]

Genuinely think this is going to end up being my joker moment.

[jimmawww]

Fave Pause Menus

Ocarina of Time

Jet Force Gemini

Viewtiful Joe

The Witness

Red Dead Redemption

Persona 5

Fallout 3