#javert/eponine parallels

[secretmellowblog]

Feeling normal about Javert and Eponine today

[i-ideate]

javert according to mr hugo

[fluentisonus]

chiens-loups

[pallases]

idk what to do here folks im out of colors

[secretmellowblog]

AH YES ALL OF THIS :_:

I think @everyonewasabird once described their relationship as.... Eponine is like the shadow of Cosette, and Javert is like the shadow of Valjean. But while Cosette and Valjean end up finding each other and having this deep loving father-daughter relationship that changes both of their lives....to me there's this feeling that something was supposed to happen between Eponine and Javert, but it never actually formed. Largely because Javert sucks and is a cop. What I mean is: Valjean and Javert both come across their younger narrative foil being abused by the Thenardiers. Valjean's forced labor in the galleys is mirrored in Cosette's forced labor for the Thenardiers. Javert's childhood in prison is mirrored in Eponine's childhood in a prison-like environment with criminal parents. But when Valjean comes across Cosette, his heart breaks for her, and he prevents her from continuing to endure the trauma he had to endure. But when Javert comes across Eponine after the Gorbeau House raid-- he only notices her to decide she's an Accomplice of the Thenardiers, then indifferently "nabs" her and sends her to prison. His entire worldview is so warped by his mindless worship of Authority and Law that he literally just, ARRESTS the girl who could've been his Cosette. It's like he arrests his Cosette! Because he just...doesn't see her as a person, in the same way he doesn't even see himself as a person. And he's utterly unaware of what he's missed. Valjean comes across a child enduring the trauma he suffered and sees someone he desperately needs to protect; Javert comes across a child enduring the trauma he suffered and only sees someone he can violently punish.

y’ know Victor Hugo is indeed an entire attic of problems, in terms of gender theory etc 

and yet atm I don’t see that we’re ever going to get an adaptation that has the guts to go in on the parallels between Fantine and Enjolras, or Eponine and Javert, or even to examine the way Valjean’s parenting of Cosette challenges the gendered roles assigned to parenting 

and that’s …well it’s not great and people making adaptations should feel Not Great about it 

[alicedrawslesmis]

I know I just said I didn't want to just be complaining about everything so I'll try to word this in a more constructive way asdfghjkl

It's hard to be an Eponine fan in a world where the musical -and On My Own specifically- is sooooo mainstream. Because imo as much as On My Own itself is kind of a half-decent, if simplified, encapsulation of Eponine's struggle with her love for Marius if you analise the lyrics in isolation, the musical as a whole, her role in the narrative as the unrequited love diva (I'm also simplifying here. I don't think this is super fair to the anglo musical, but compared to the book there's no question of how they reworked her into a glamorous 80s diva contralto because musical theatre has usually very strict gender roles), did her so dirty. So dirty. And imo often her character is reduced to her pining in fandom as a result. And I don't like that, personally.

I love that girl so much. I love that she is just young enough to still be a child but adult enough to be aware of her social role. She has one foot in the gamin life and one foot in the adult world. I love the tragedy that is the fact that she likes the beauty and pomp of high society girls and wish she could have silk shoes but knowing she can't.

And also being super resigned to her class despite it, she doesn't believe she ever will have any of that. She resents that too, somewhat. The tragedy of her knowing that she couldn't be with Marius because of his social class and her accepting that (angrily? sadly?). I love her self-banishment as his guard dog because of this. I love her drunk sailor voice. I love how manipulative she is and that she isn't Marius's friend at all. He's just her one neighbor who wasn't a total asshole one time. He was, later. But not at first. And she can't be in his head and know he thinks she's kinda despicable because crime because Marius is a judgemental little shithead.

And Eponine isn't an idealist, she's resigned to her position. I understand why she gets paired with grantaire in fics but her canon narrative parallel is Javert, they both believe they are excluded from society from their outcast position and so become the watchdogs for it. Eponine a kind of guardian (in her own words a devil, not an angel) and Javert the same. That's why he's the one person who sees her in the barricade, he's the same as her. Marius saw her but that's only cause he had a use for her in that moment, as soon as she didn't he forgot all about it.

I think also Gavroche, with his ability to be kind of a figure above the narrative, with his gamin skills of being almost omnipresent is something Eponine used to have, but with her age she's starting to lose that. She's starting to grown old enough that she's required to be IN the world and not supercede it. Gavroche is also almost there, if he had been allowed to grow up he would've lost that ability too. They both inhabit this sort of magical surreal world superimposed on our own.

A lot of Les Mis and Notre Dame de Paris can be kinda described as magical realism, I would go so far as calling them urban fantasy. And characters like Babet, Thenardier sometimes, Gavroche, Eponine (and Javert sometimes as well) are inhabiting this magically charged layer. This reality that's imposed Over the real world.

Talking about that One Series Of Wizard Books is a bit passé rn so uh. Doctor Who. Particularly the initial New Who seasons before they got that huge budget. That's a good parallel to what I'm getting at. The real world is still the same but there are certain characters that inhabit this mystical overlayer and are able to transverse from one to the other (Javert can't really because he is stuck forever outside and the second he understands that you CAN'T be an unbiased outsider who only enforces the norm without participating he freaks out and literally dies about it). Eponine is right in the eye of the storm tho. She manipulates reality to get her way, to die with Marius, because that's as close as she can get to being with him. And she manipulates reality to protect him too. Contradictions be damned. She has many contradictory feelings that make her complex and cool and an awesome character whom I love and wish would stop being reduced to the glamurous mysical theatre role with a single black stain on her face and a beautiful actor and a big unrequited love song about a random boy (whose personality was also changed for the musical and I argue is probably the character that was most fucked up by it in the public perception because he's such an weird little self-insert of an even weirder guy. But I get it, the musical is long enough as it is).

Anyway, I wish eponine could be more of a mongrel, a little gremlin. A little rat child that's just beginning to grow into an adult and is self aware of her role in the narrative society. She's a teenage girl which already sucks to go through when you're not constantly starving and cold and being forced by your father to work and do con jobs. Marius is the object she attaches herself to, but it could've been literally anything. Javert did that with the social order, he protects and guards it. She just chose Some Guy instead. Which, we all have that one friend who does that too. Like girl you're too good for him. Come on let's get you sone ice cream. And clean clothes and a roof. Literally anything. Bread.

I think if Eponine had a roof over her head and like, food on the regular she would forget Marius exists. Same as Cosette if she had moved to England. Like he'd be that one intense crush they had as teenagers. Can't say the same for him tho. He would hold onto that for the rest of time.

[granhairdo]

thinking about the parallels between eponine and javert 😭😭😭

[tjjamess]

the parallels and shared lines between Eponine and Valjean in the two different ‘a heart full of love’s

the parallels between Eponine and Javert’s expected deaths vs their actual deaths

Overall….someone get Eponine a happier life

[lifewillalwaysbe-lavieenrose]

GUYS!! I saw Les Mis! In Munich!!!

Let's recap!

The Cast:

Daniel Gutmann as Javert. He was incredible. Definitely my personal highlight. Everytime he sang his voice just ROARED. And he was menacing holy shit. Aggggggh I'm normal about him

Barbara Obermeier as Eponine. When I first heard her sing in Act 1, I knew she was gonna kill it in Act 2. And she did.

Merlin Farcel aka Enjolras. His voice was so perfect I LOVED all the high notes, BUT:

The beard. Sorry, but in my world Enjolras doesn't have a beard. Plus, it makes him look like Peter Maffay

Madame Thenardier was PERFECT (I don't remember who played her that night😭) She was so funny and the audience really loved her.

The Music:

At first, I felt a bit underwhelmed by the orchestra. To be fair, I listened to the 10th anniversary recording SO much, that I really got used to that grand orchestra sound.

There was an electric guitar and at one point an electric bass when Javert sang, which I really loved.

During Master of the House/ Beggars at the Feast you could really see the orchestra bopping their heads and having fun and that made me very happy

I really loved the brass section, they really stood out (That French Hurn during On My Own????!)

The Costumes:

I don't know why, but the Les Amis were wearing these caps all the time. I have never seen a production with them in it. Is this a historically accurate thing?? I didn't really like them, they looked very plastic/shiny and fell out of place

I cannot find a picture but in the beginning of Act 1 Valjean wore a pink vest and then a purple coat which both looked very cheap and which I both didn't like (maybe it was because of the light? The colors felt very unnatural)

Eponine's outfit. At first I thought it didn't look shabby enough. But it looks so badass I'll let it pass

Why don't you let Enjolras wear his red vest??

What is Marius wearing? Goofy boy

Big Mad Hatter vibes from Thenardier. I loved his and the Patron Minettes outifits, they looked very edgy

This is perfect. Perfect. I only wished he had undone his hair for Javert's Suicide (he did, but only for the last 10 seconds)

The Stage:

The stage had a turning middle and stairs that could be moved around, similar like in Hamilton.

They did a cool transition with young Cosette walking up the stairs and old Cosette walking down

Also, they had some cool staging with buildings moving around for Stars. But I feel like there was almost a bit too much happening in the background for this song.

I don't know why they didn't have the Barricades turn and show Enjolras hang upside down. It's such a cool/tragic moment!

During the Barricade scenes, the stage sometimes felt a bit empty. I mean, there were always like 15 people standing around. Maybe the Barricades were to small/not high enough

Empty chairs at empty tables. Where were the empty chairs and empty tables??

In Everyday/A Heart Full of Love Reprise single leaves started falling down on the stage (Like Valjean entering the Fall/Winter of his life) I loved that.

Also, the parallel of Marius learning to walk again using a cane, and Valjean loosing his ability to walk using a cane. I never noticed this before!

There are SO many cool things about the staging I could talk about here. But I want to mention some other topics as well:

The "Spirit" of the Show:

There wasn't a single French flag to be seen. Some red ones, but no French flags.

In the trailer, the director said he wanted to create a more universal setting, speaking to everyone in the audience

I think that's a great sentiment but like. Everyone has French names. There were titles above the stage telling us the year and locations (Places in France) of the events. The title of the show is French.

So I think adding the flags (aka a bit more French nationalism?) would have seemed a lot more convincing for the cause of the students and the whole spirit of the show

But maybe this also has to do with the show being in German? I don't know and I'd really like to discuss it. Maybe someone here made a similar experience seeing it in another language

And last, but MOST importantly:

What about Valvert and Enjoltaire?

In the Confrontation, Javert and Valjean got really close to each other. And I mean fighting each other and then stopping just to sing directly into each other's faces.

Instead of running infront of the court in Who Am I, Valjean just goes to Javert and rips his shirt open? Okay, go off I guess

In Drink with Me, we have a platonic forehead touch between Enjolras and Grantaire. Sadly, that's all I noticed between them 😔

Also, the fact that Grantaire is supposed to be ugly/shabby/a drinker/a sceptic got totally lost, which really takes away from his character.

Conclusion:

All the actors were good, some of them were FANTASTIC. I'd watch it again just for the guy playing Javert, if I could. God, he was SO GOOD

The music was all it should be, maybe a bit too reserved (but again, this might be because I am so used to the 10th anniversary concert)

I really loved some costumes and I also really disliked some

The staging was great, some choices confused me (flags, barricades etc.)

Would I watch it again?

Absolutely!

To be clear, some of the things here might sound more negative than I actually mean. It's just that I have watched SO many different productions online, that I fixated on all the great performances and how I think they should be done. Of course everyone has different opinions here.

Okay thanks for reading if you made it here. Have a great day!

[genderfeel]

honestly crazy to me how much analytical mileage you can get out of directly comparing javert to sooo many characters, either as a parallel or foil. javert and valjean. javert and eponine. javert and enjolras. javert and grantaire. are you seeing the visions

[secretmellowblog]

For me the ‘canon homoerotic subtext’ between brick!Valjean and Javert is really more about the parallels between Javert and Eponine, who are explicitly set up as character foils.

Brick!Javert isn’t obsessed with Valjean like he is in adaptations. He’s not psychosexually obsessed with hunting him down; he really doesn’t seem to think of him as being any different than any other criminal—- he doesn’t think about Jean Valjean much at all until after Jean Valjean saves his life.

But after the barricades, Javert’s sudden weird desperate emotions about Jean Valjean are like a twisted mirror of his character foil Eponine’s weird desperate emotions for Marius.

Some guy takes pity on them, and extends them a bit of basic impersonal kindness— and they react by descending into this violently self-destructive suicidal admiration built on self-loathing. They’re both described as making themselves the “dogs” of Marius/Valjean, the dogs of people who barely remember they exist.

And anyway! I think there is potential to explore things there in analysis and fanfiction

[willowmaidsworld]

One day I'll write an essay on parallels between Jean Valjean and Javert and how Eponine is Javert's Cosette he fails to rescue (still breaks my heart)

But it is not this day!

[angstics]

thinking about how in lesmis paris parallels with montreuil sur mer. javert hunting valjean / thenardier hunting valjean (“he thought that man was me without a second glance” vs “these men who seem to know my crime will surely come a second time”). fantine dying in valjean’s embrace / eponine dying in marius’s (two platonic m/f relationships ooof) (among other parallels: “… / then i shall keep you warm / … / take shelter from the storm” vs “shelter me, comfort me”)

[euphraisette]

Èponine with bangs and jaw-length hair that she tucks behind her ears except for two locks that hang in such a way that they vaguely resemble sideburns (making the Javert parallels visual)

EPONINE WITH AMELIE HAIR????

[a-la-sante-du-progres]

A list of Les Mis headcanons I have because of adaptations, without any hint in the novel as far as I remember:

-Grantaire has dark curly hair (Les Mis 2012)

-Often in my mind R has Bladgen's face, just a bit rougher. Sometimes I can picture BBC's Grantaire (who was a very good one) but only in modern AUs, strangely.

-Grantaire has green eyes (Les Mis 2012 but it's a Mandela effect, Bladgen is blue eyed), I support also brown eyed R btw

-Grantaire wears green, even if the red waistcoat always features and has a great importance in my interpretation of the character (musical)

-Courfeyrac has brown curly hair (Les Mis 2012), but I support blonde!Courfeyrac as well because of his parallel to Tholomyes in the brick. His hair has to be curly anyway.

-Enjolras wears red (musical) but I support as well Enjolras who wears green, green is complementary to Grantaire's red + once I read green was the color of French Revolution. Anyway in canon era, mod it's a waistcoat or a vest, in modern AUs it's a long red coat (projection of my own coat?) or a red leather jacket.

-Javert has blue eyes. This one may be in the brick I can't remember. Javert is linked with the color blue in general, in my mind. IDK if it's especially from the 2012 movie.

-Courfeyrac and Combeferre are super close. This looks like born from the fandom but actually the idea is from the 2012 movie I think.

-I see Marius with Redmaine's face, bless him.

-Blonde Cosette but I also hate it, Hugo avoided the dark/light color scheme for Eponine and Cosette for a reason. So lately I'm trying to picture Cosette with brown hair.

-Joly has dark hair (Les Mis 2012), it's so weird to see him blond in the Arai manga

[pilferingapples]

this is an invitation to infodump. i would LOVE to hear the thoughts you have on beggars at the feast, should you want to talk about them

AUGH ok ok let's see how well I can articulate...anything

OK so first: In the Letters server lately we've been talking a bit about how , in the book, Thenardier is WAY more the Human Nemesis than Javert is. He shows up earlier than Javert does; he's able to be a threat in ways Javert can't be, and to people Javert can't and wouldn't even try to touch ; he shares a TON of paralleling symbolism and class-blurring roles with JVJ; he's the last Personal Threat remaining in the novel, and the last thing we hear about him is that he's not only thriving , he's committing worse atrocities on a grander scale than anything we saw in the book, and getting nothing but social approval for it.

Thenardier is a nightmare, and he's triumphant, and as such he's a condemnation of society in an equal and opposing way to Jean Valjean. Valjean's story (and Fantine's , and the Thenardier siblings' ,. and the Amis , etc) says "look what we're destroying, look at the actions we punish". Thenardier's ultimate triumph as a literal slave trader flips it around and says "look what we support, look at what we endorse, look at what we elevate and approve." (now within the book I could take this farther , I could point out that the only thing within the novel that breaks any of the miserables free of their oppression to any degree is crime of some kind, be it revolution or theft or Being an Accomplice or exploitation, and the only thing that costs the (relatively) privileged their security and power is to truly ally with the miserables, but !! I'm talking about the musical)

In the musical Thenardier is softened a lot. Like... a LOT. The Thenardiers' exploitation of Fantine is barely mentioned ; their violent abuse of Cosette is turned into a joke; their abuse of Eponine is minimized (and their other kids are either Not Appearing in this Play or not obviously connected to them) ; and that final doomstrike epilogue, Thenardier becoming a slave trader, is gone. He's no longer the primary and most dangerous human antagonist; as in many other adaptations, that's now Javert.

So there's a different arc but it's there : From Master of the House and the Robbery , when he largely comes across as a gross but funny Comic Villain ; to the Attack on the Rue Plumet, where we finally see a bit of danger to him; to Dog Eats Dog, where he is really just acting on the same philosophy we saw in MotH but now doing something most people have a more immediate revulsion to, and the mask is really off; to , finally, Beggars at the Feast. If Beggars at the Feast is done RIGHT, This is Where The Villains Win.

They've gotten knocked around, sure, but they've also just gotten a ton of money, and, if done right, they are either blending in with the society party or, in the best staging * , they end up leading the dance. It's Master of the House all over again, only this time we're not being invited to laugh along with Thenardier's "band of soaks" ; this isn't the dregs of society, an easily stigmatized lower-class punchline.

This is Society, capital S Society, and they're just as ready to go along with him-- MORE ready to go along with him, even, because at least some of his inn customers usually get to be affronted and argue a little, but arguing with him risks some Unpleasantness, and isn't everything in Society so pleasant? Isn't it nice here, at the party? Let's not argue with the openly hateful people singing about how they want to destroy us all; look, they're dancing and singing! Let's just follow their lead. Won't that be nice.

And without getting into modern politics just because it's ALWAYS so current and I could never update the references frantically enough, I'll say that this is where Stage!Thenardier most echoes those Book!Thenardier Napoleon III vibes. Hugo knew what this dance looked like. He fell for it at one point.

(and hey, maybe it even raises some unease in audience members who laughed at MoTH and the child abuse and the Robbery without thinking about it-- maybe some people realize Oh Shit, We Fell For It Too. Not necessarily, but maybe?? ) And so it's fitting that it's this scene that has IMO a very clear sense of the book's incredibly specific political message ("Parisians, France, Please Overthrow Napoleon III, Probably With Barricades" ) , albeit in reverse. The Thenardiers gloat "Clear away the barricades and we're still here!" -- to them, a brag on how they endure all the changes around them.

But also implying: don't clear away the damn barricades. If you don't want the Thenardiers to run the show , help shore up that furniture wall and fight (for a modern international audience, this is probably going to be Not AS Specifically Involving Barricades).

So yeah. I'm not gonna say it's the most important song in the whole show , but it's important in ways I rarely see critics or commenters notice.

...Or it's just a funny musical reprise and you can have the Thenardiers be immediately thrown out of the wedding as frauds bc hahaha the poors thought they could play with their betters, good thing we're all so much smarter and cooler than that in the upper crust. That's fine too.

yes I have opinions; also I'm Correct