#izuku midoriya - criticism

[vivika-ka]

@achillesmonochrome putting the response to your comments here 🙏

Adding some additional thoughts/explanation here in response to the comments, since I think I probably didn’t express myself properly. That’s on me, of course.

Again, I understand that Izuku is coming from a place where he doesn’t know the full scope of the corruption and hypocrisy underlying the hero culture and is blinded by his obsession. Let me reiterate again that I’m not expecting him to immediately drop his dream and doubt every single aspect of it but to simply have a tiny bit of either doubt/disillusionment or at least anger at the #2 hero being what he is. He doesn’t care about it, though.

It is weird for his character to simply brush it off when he is established to be sensitive & empathetic. (What happened to the tiny Izuku defending other kids from bullies? Where is that righteousness and care?) Him brushing it off comes across as him discarding empathy because it gets in the way of rising to the top. And that’s…weird. We start with a character who is different from the other heroes, a character that understands the underdog and empathizes quickly with others.

I’m not saying Deku has to be perfect, but his actions contradict what he is set out to be. And if he is set out to just become a second All Might, accepting and conforming to their society’s flawed system, then yeah, I might just drop MHA.

If we consider the way their society classifies heroes, which is shown to matter to Izuku, Endeavor being #2 is huge. He isn’t just some man in Izuku’s eyes. Yet when he is confronted with Endeavor’s abusive ways, then Endeavor becomes some other hero? For Endeavor to be #2, he must be a good hero, right? Him being able to hide his abusive ways begs the question of how many heroes are supposedly good yet engaging in nefarious acts hidden from the public.

Yes, Izuku witnesses first hand his teachers saving him and his classmates during the USJ attack. He has witnessed countless other heroes saving civilians. How many times has society, Izuku included, witnessed Endeavor saving others? Did that stop him from being an abuser? What guarantees Endeavor, the #2 hero, is just an exception?

How is Izuku not questioning any of this? His age isn’t that low that he isn’t capable of comprehending these types of issues.

They could’ve spared 5 seconds to have him ask, “How is that man even a hero?” And perhaps be propelled to change that by reaffirming he and Shouto will eventually surpass Endeavor, since being at the top matters to Izuku.

But, as I said before, my main gripe is the direction of the scene as something inspiring. (The music swelling, most of all). Since this is clearly one of Izuku’s flaws surfacing to the viewer, why am I being expected to see it as an inspiration? To find it “cool” that he is too lost and desperate to conform to their society that he fails to act like an actual hero? It renders his character as insincere, and fails to compel me to root for him (the protagonist).

And it isn’t as though the direction hasn’t highlighted the flaws of other characters, mainly Katsuki but also Shouto, with proper music and “camera shots.” I don’t see why they can’t apply the same treatment to Izuku, regardless of him being the protagonist.

I suppose given the response I’m getting to this post, perhaps this is subjective. Also, I hope my tone isn’t coming off as confrontational! I’m legitimately just having a discussion & appreciate the insight!

There are some aspects of MHA that I find enjoyable and that possess great potential, especially when it comes to the apathy and entitlement of society being part of what fuels systemic discrimination and corruption.

However, I wish the author knew how to balance these major issues with the main characters’ goals and purpose.

I won’t be able to explain it in depth since I’m rushing to write this, but as I watched episode 19 (S2 EP 6), it’s kind of crazy that we get Shouto’s backstory and a major reveal that his father, the number 2 hero (an extremely influential and powerful figure in their society), is an abuser.

Yet Izuku doesn’t demonstrate the slightest bit of disillusionment to the fact that the hero culture he has been obsessed with since he was a baby is nothing but a sham that shields a man like Endeavor.

His response is to declare he wants to be like All Might, and essentially reignites his rivalry with Shouto. The scene is meant to be interpreted as inspiring and iconic. But I just find it a bit delusional…? If that makes sense.

Shouto: My father has committed a number of illegal acts and essentially manipulated my mother into having me. He project his failures on me and molded me into some child soldier to achieve his dreams. My mother hated and feared my father to the point of throwing boiling water at my face because I resemble my father.

Izuku: That’s scary, but since All Might isn’t like your father, I still want to be a hero.

Like???????

Shouto’s lack of disillusionment is also bewildering to me. You mean to tell me he grew up with a father like Endeavor and never questioned the validity of what it means to be a hero in their society?

I don’t know. I’m reluctant to keep watching. I feel like everything I’ve heard and seen about MHA has been super fanon oriented, because so far the canon story hasn’t been as good lol.

[nagitosstolenhand]

i don't like the growing opinion that people are being 'too hard' on deku for his failing to save shigaraki.

i've seen quite a few people complaining that a lot of the bnha-critical crowd are being too mean to deku for getting tomura killed, arguing that it isn't really his fault, and that hes a 16 year old child soldier who's been failed by almost every adult in his life, why should we be putting all of this on his shoulders? hes just a kid after all?

and the truth is, they're right. deku IS a 16 year old boy whos had the fate of the world thrust on his shoulders. but the story itself just plainly refuses to acknowledge this.

the narrative doesn't acknowledge how fucked up having a school that trains literal children how to be combo cop-celebrities is. it only tentatively acknowledges the fact that a universe having combo cop-celebrities is fucked up, and even then the only people who ever point this out are antagonists, who are portrayed and treated in-universe as untrustworthy. the narrative doesn't care how fucked up dekus circumstances are. the narrative treats deku like hes a fucking messiah here to touch the hearts of the evil depressed villains with his magical empathetic heart of gold before they get blown up or just sent to fucking superhell for daring to challenge the status quote.

deku isn't a person. he's barely even a fucking character at this point. he's a plot device, and a mouth piece for the objectively shitty themes bnha is trying to spout. the themes that tell you that if you're mistreated by society and want to do something about it, you're a villain. that disrupting the status quote and refusing to repent to some random teenage boy spouting empty platitudes at you means you deserve to get sent to fucking superhell. the themes that portray people fighting for civil change as mass murdering supervillains. the themes that look the audience dead in the eye and can call deku the greatest hero to ever live.

deku, who barely spared a second thought to lady nagant telling him the truth about the hero commission. who spouts meaningless platitudes about heroism and morality at nagant, and aoyama, and toga and shigaraki, when even the thought that he should question the world around him comes up. who's constantly talked about as this truly kind, empathetic person, but hasn't spared an empathetic thought to literally anyone who is classified as a villain. who listened to every authority figure around him except the ones who asked him to question his worldview. who saw la bravas tears, shigarakis various breakdowns, himikos plead for understanding, chisakis catatonic state, lady nagants truth, and barley batted a fucking eye. deku, who killed tomura shigaraki.

people don't criticize deku for failing shigaraki because they just hate deku. people criticize deku because of what he represents. because hes a mouthpiece for the atrocious morals and themes of this ideologically rotten manga. because any character he had was chopped up to bits in favor of the incomplete husk we have now. people criticize deku because hes the main character of my hero academia. theres nothing more damning then that.

[cryiling]

i see a lot of people headcanon that bakugo loves horror movies, meanwhile deku is a huge scaredycat/crybaby towards them. BUT actually i think it would be very funny if it was the other way around

SO. headcanoning that bakugo really fucking hates horror movies. NOT because he's. scared or anything what r u talking about. haha definitely not. but do not turn that shit on anywhere near him or he will fucking kill u

meanwhile deku USED to be afraid of horror movies. but then he decided that in order to get over his fear of them, he was gonna watch a bunch of behind the scenes for them to see how the movies were actually made and to be less scared when watching them. and then he became a HUGE horror movie nerd. he LOVES breaking down how the practical effects work and identifying them on screen when watching. jumpscares don't bother him anymore, he's too busy nerding out about the behind the scenes stuff and analyzing how all the different effects are working seamlessly together to make the horror movie effective

deku loves dragging bakugo to see new horror movies or forcing him to sit and watch them at home together, he's always really excited to analyze the effects and camerawork of the movies. bakugo only (barely) tolerates it because he just looks away during all the "scary" parts and concentrates on deku's mumbling to distract himself from the movie

deku: no kacchan it's actually so cool how they did this shot!! they only had one take so they had to position all the camera equipment perfectly and there's a whole bunch of hidden triggers and the visual perspective makes the intensity of the shot SO much more effective and blah blah blah-

bakugo, face buried in deku's shoulder and very much avoiding looking at the screen: turn this off immediately or i will explode ur face

[ilovereadingandstuff]

I'm sorry but THIS IS SO TRUE!!

Izuku, darling, you're my favorite and all media basically and i love you so much...but this is true.

[jp---v]

Weird how the class could barely ever see each other when Midoriya was just a teacher, but as soon as he gets this suit and can be a hero again, all twenty-one of them are all conveniently in the same place to answer a single call about a road being blocked by a landslide.

Just saying... eight years.

[v0id-clawz]

I don't think the mha fandom understands how truly mortifying the sludge guy scene with Izuku is tbh

Like. Izuku was 14. FOURTEEN, and nearly died ALONE

Sure, the scene with Bakugo was horrible for him, but there were a LOT of people there, he would've been on the news, he would've died a hero

Izuku didn't have that. He was alone, no one was there for him. Also, no one beside his mother really cared for him, given how he's treated in the episode, probably no one would've cared when he disappeared

Also, he might’ve not been on the news at all! The show has said that there's discrimination against those with different Quirks, so it might not have been just the class being jerks to Izuku

[donkeys-waffles]

Just as a warning to those that may be concerned, this is a Bakugo bashing post. If you love Bakugo as a character, then more power to you. He's my least favorite character across the board. And this is me venting my distaste for him, so be warned. Thank you :)

As I'm rewatching MHA, I've gotten to season 6 when Bakugo apologizes to Izuku. And there's something that really bothers me about it.

I feel like Bakugo had potential as a character. Like he really did, even though I don't like his character. I feel like there was potential for him to be an important figure in Izuku's development and growth. And the apology scene wasn't too bad for me. But I feel like it fell short in two major points.

Izuku rarely addresses and monologues about his own trauma/childhood. He expresses very little justified rage and the only real proof of the impact of his childhood lies within his body language and the subtext. His fear of Bakugo, borderline suicidal hero complex, every single scar on his body from overworking himself, constantly undervaluing himself and his efforts/improvements, and much more.

And the last point is Bakugo, I can understand wanting to keep core aspects of his character, but he has to change a little more to have it be considered character growth. The reason he bullied Izuku is because he felt that when Izuku reached out to him, Izuku viewed him as weak (delusional but go off. Literally harassed and assaulted someone for a decade because they tried to help you up when you fell.) His entire character arch was centered around the idea of not just winning, but also saving. He was supposed to understand the importance of both. But not only that, he was supposed understand and accept that help is needed, and you can't always win. I mean, if Izuku were to help him in a pinch now he needs to learn to set aside his arrogance, pride, and inferiority complex to accept help, and not explode into an overgrown toddler because he lost. With learning the importance of saving, he's supposed to not center his ENTIRE objective around strength and being the best all the time. And this could be done, while also still keeping his character true to himself. I always hear about his character development as a reason to like Bakugo, which... I don't completely agree. The only two changes are he doesn't physically attack people (Izuku) and doesn't call him Deku anymore, which GOOD I would hope that'd at least change. But his focus is still completely centered around winning. He says as much after the apology, in the baths, he's still fighting Izuku to become number 1. And that's not a bad thing entirely. I understand that's his character, what I want to see change is how he handles losing, how he handles not being the best and failing especially to Izuku. And what I get is an OVA with Bakugo having a temper tantrum because of a tie with Izuku, he used his quirk and was screaming about it too. It doesn't help that every chance he gets he talks about winning and out-besting Izuku in something, even with his fight with AFO he talks about it. Like he doesn't care that AFO is finally dead, and he saved the world, doesn't even offer a small sense of relief that he helped a lot of people, no, he beat Izuku and is clearly better and that's all that matters.

It's just, that entire mentality is what caused Izuku his problems, this mentality caused Bakugo to abuse him for a decade. I feel like the apology could've been done better, but it was just added to give Bakugo good boy points and then completely brushed aside. He's changed in some ways, but he hasn't changed enough to warrant forgiveness. Not when his competitiveness is still seen as somewhat mean spirited. Even when he found out about Izuku losing OFA, I just sat as he cried and thought "WOW, if I had my childhood bully that abused me for a decade for being quirkless, cried because I was quirkless again and couldn't compete with them anymore. I'd punch them so hard in the face." Like the audacity. Excuse me, I'm the one lying broken and battered in this hospital bed, with my dreams crushed again, and YOU'RE crying because you can't have an opponent for being the number 1 hero.

It's like Izuku is never seen as a person to Bakugo for most of the show, just something to kick aside, something to squash so he doesn't have to face his own inadequacy, and now just something to beat. Something with a power strong enough to rival the great Bakugo. And I feel like the narrative is trying to push that they were fighting for this dream together, since childhood up until this point in canon. That the bullying never happened, like that whole decade didn't exist. They do this through the scene of Bakugo crying and the All Might cards, but like how can you forget the last 5 seasons of the show and what 300+ chapters of Bakugo doing his upmost to crush Izuku under his boot. They most definitely DID NOT fight for that goal together their whole childhood, Bakugo has been crushing that boy's dreams of being a hero for years, instilling in him deep rooted self-hatred and a fat imposter syndrome.

[sapphic-agent]

Why I Hate Izuku Losing OFA

A lot of people defend this, saying everything's come around full circle. But in my opinion, him losing OFA was just a horrible decision.

I've already talked about how if Horikoshi was going to go the "he never needed a quirk to be a hero" route, he should have done that from the beginning. So I'm not going to go anymore into that. I also won't talk about how fucking stupid and contradictory the Iron-Man suit is. I also won't talk about how it's actually pretty fucked to take away the only power that the abused powerless kid ever had.

Why I hate this is because it's a conclusion to a non-existent arc.

Izuku, as a child, has been told all his life that he couldn't be a hero because of how he was born. And we almost never see him confront that or come to terms with it. We never get his feelings about his past or even reflection on why he was treated the way he was. He's never able to look upon the injustice, hypocrisy, and corruption of not only the society he lives in, the society that he himself is a victim of.

Izuku, for some odd reason, is never allowed to interact with the fact that he was quirkless.

All of his major feats were because of OFA. Not once did he get to beat a major villain without using his quirk. If Horikoshi had managed to have him beat Shigaraki without his quirk. Even though at this point Izuku had lost his quirk, he still used the last of it to defeat Tomura.

At the very end, Izuku still needed his quirk. Him being a hero without it means absolutely nothing

[bibibbon]

Someone, please save Izuku. FandomWire released an article about how Horikoshi enjoyed working on Bakugou more than Izuku. 🥲🥲🥲

The only way we can save izuku now is if the fanfic writers team up and give him justice (some are already doing so!!!!).

I tried to find the article and the best I have gotten is to this 👇

I haven't fully read it but from what I have read I have to agree. We see Izuku a lot in the manga but dam it's just like we see him. We don't get to actually see inside him or what he is thinking and all like we used to.

Izuku in the beginning Vs izuku in the end are two different characters and a lot of people have described Izuku in the beginning as Izuku and the character in the end as deku (the hollow shell of izuku).

Izuku in the beginning would shout and rebuttal if he heard what spinner called shoji (he literally got all twisted up when shinsou called ojiro a monkey) but in the end we get nothing.

Izuku in the beginning would shout and be able to have negative feelings about people like bakugo and enji but in the end he defends enjis actions Infront of touya and doesn't even get any intropsection towards bakugos horrible apology.

Izuku in the beginning would do anything he can to be useful and be a hero but Izuku in the end gives up and doesn't do anything until he is given the tools to do so 8 years later

Izuku in the beginning and end still worships heroes and hasn't developed a well rounded world view even with the sliver of foreshadowing that he would from the begining of "not all are created equal"

Izuku in the beginning cried and prayed to have a quirk but in the end when he loses his quirk he is simply indifferent and it's bakugo whose doing the crying instead.

Dam too many of my favourite characters are going through character assassinations first Izuku now five whose next ?!?!?!

[angy-grrr]

spoilers for chapter 429

idk if you guys remember but ochako does have parallels with All Might, specifically as the side who saves. It’s not that he feels the same for them both or something like that, they serve to represent the type of heroism he naturally goes to; his friend is not his love interest, from his perspective she’s out there having a crisis over not being able to save her, and Izuku reminds her that she is a hero bc she is his hero -she saved him multiple times, and she should be able to feel like a proper hero.

This conversation is not about the nature of their relationship, is about heroism; Izuku relates to a conflict between being a hero who saves and failing to save someone, and doesn’t want to see Ochako ending spiraling because she couldn’t also fulfill that role as expected. She’s his hero not because he loves her romantically -he’s a nerd I’m sure he would be way more nervous and blushing if he was confessing anything he thought was romantic- but because she’s able to go and do what All Might does to Izuku, save him physically and emotionally.

He knows she hides her feelings in order to not be a burden, yet he doesn’t talk about his own feelings outside of his guilt in heroics -what does he feel about losing OFA? About his own failures? About the people he personally lost? He can’t talk for others and claim Ochako is everyone’s hero, but he can speak for himself, and that’s his personal perspective -she is a hero to him, she’s his hero. And then the class appears to make sure she’s able to get support and understand she’s not alone, and she’s important to them too.

but Izuku doesn’t get support. Izuku cries a little and talks a little about himself, but he doesn’t get supported. If this was meant to be romantic, I don’t understand why he would hold back what’s inside of him.

the end of the chapter reveals that boy is going to be helped by that woman who regretfully ignored Tenko, and they both witness it and are happy about it while hearing izuku inspired that change, and iida wonders what’s up with them -this is the conclusion to their relationship. In their hearts these two are saviors who struggle to be heroes who save others, and they are happy there are appearing more people who want to be heroes like them. Heroes who save. Save like All Might.

That grandma for example, interpreting the narrative as what I think is intended, would be that boy’s All Might; she’s his hero.

Izuku and Ochako are heroes who save, and Deku is here to remind her at least she did save him many times, that she is still a hero because she is his hero. I don’t believe is meant to be interpreted as romantic, not that Izuku sees that phrase as it neither -after all, he said he does want to be like All Might and feels good to imitate him, but he doesn’t love him.

Ochako’s All Might hair moment, the parallels with Toshinori telling him he can be a hero, the trying to save from black suffocating quirks, the we can do it and do your best…

Do I need to remind you heroes arent a romantic thing for Izuku Midoriya?

[mauradersdaughter]

The lack of emotional connection between Midoriya and Shigaraki jeopardized the 'Save the Villain' trope.

In the last season of 'My Hero Academia', we come face to face with the trope of 'Save the Villain', having a certain hero have a certain villain they can relate to. In Deku's case, that's Shigaraki. The two of them have a lot in common, as we see through out the show, but in the beginning, their main one is that one is the sucessor of the greatest hero and the other, the sucessor of the greatest villain. After time passes we see more and more similarities, some subtle, others not. All of that leads to the last season where Midoriya decides he's going to save Shigaraki (somehow) and tries to get him to stop.

Now, this is the thing, that line of "I want to save that little boy" felt cheap to me. Let me explain: That line is supposed to be impactful, it's supposed to mean something coming out of Izuku's lips; however, it doesn't. It doesn't, because it lacks emotional depth. -> It lacks emotional depth, because we didn't have scenes that showed why Midoriya would like to save Shigaraki (specifically), what made him connect to him.

We have no scenes of the two of them just talking, either about beliefs or any topic that they could other relate to each other. The only scene that comes close to that (and it's pretty much the only scene where they're not trying to punch each other) is the mall scene. And even that scene goes nowhere, it is just so that Shigaraki can blame All Might again. It could be a scene where the two of them discuss more and it could be the start of their connection, which doesn't include One for All or All for One. This beginning could grow by having them have more moments, expanding their relationship. It also would be good for later in the story when Midoriya tries to save Tenko, because then it would have a solid base that had grown into that point.

So, when you have the last chapters of Midoriya trying to save Shigaraki, it feels empty, because why would the main antagonist accept the offer? It's like having a random stranger ask you to trust them, why would you? you don't know them. They have no connection, no deep conversations and their relationship has been very poorly written. (also, how is beating the crap out of Shigaraki going to save him?) Not to mention, that in order for Midoriya to create a bond with Shigaraki, he'd need to understand his side; which seems impossible, since Izuku is never allowed to have "bad", ugly feelings or be anything more than the 'good boy that loves heroes and never critices hero society'. (this whole topic deserves a whole post on it's own).

Therefore, to have a 'Villain gets saved by the Hero' trope, it needs to have a reason why the villain would trust the hero, an emotional connection that would make the hero want to save the villain and a well developed relationship. All of which, BNHA didn't have, which is why it's no surprise that trope flopped with our main hero and villain.

[arceus-insanity]

With the Series Ending

I decided to do this solely based on canon, except for F which are so bad that they transcend the rule. I also put this in the lens of do I enjoy watching them, or do they infuriate me. Most of the ones in G are there because I can't tell who they are from the picture, or are so minor I don't get why they were on the list to begin with

Hawks was the hardest to place because as I've mentioned before I love villain fanon Hawks, and hate Canon for all the missed potential and the guy being shit.

Before the last arc, Deku would have been in C, and I felt most criticisms of him were undeserved. I still feel a lot of them are dumb, however, he's canonically a hypocritical, suck-up to labels, abuse apologist, idiot, etc. As much as it feels like character assassination it's canon, same with Shoji. I also just don't care to read fanfiction of him, and feel he takes a lot of roles where other characters would make more sense. If I'm not already following someone I'm not going to read fanfiction with him in it

Most of E I hate as much if not more than F but the fandom either doesn't write about, or treat them like the pieces of crap they are, looking at Mineta of course.

Fun fact Edgeshot is in E for bringing Bakugo back, and causing me both meta and dramatic issues for me. What the fuck was the point of killing Bakugo to immediately bring him back. How the fuck did Edgeshot know he could do this? How the fuck did he know how to do this? Why the fuck is he doing this for some random teenager he has never interacted with before, in the middle of a war? And now why the fuck does this fucker get to live, no one gave a single fuck about Edgeshot but he gets to live!

Centipeder would have been in E if not for the fact I know what my ringtone for him would be, Red Flags by Tom Cardy

Uraraka owes her rank in B for her arc with Toga, otherwise, she would have been in D. For the plot forgoing her original motivations so they could turn her into a generic love interest. Toga tried talking crushes with her 'twice' everything else regarding that shit, which started before they ever met, is on her

I actually love Endeavor fanfics as most of them either a treat his abuse for what it is, or b I view them as an own on canon Endeavor and his incredible laziness and selfishness. But Twitter exists and they flock to him and his bullshit so to F with him.

Speaking of Fs, Bakugo is a whiney spoiled rotten brat with a silver spoon shoved into his mouth since birth. I hope he never breeds. Damn near every shit thing that has happened to him, was either brought on by himself, literally applied to everyone, he literally doesn't care, and even with the two exceptions I'd give this, the Sludge guy, and being chained up at the sports fest (he should have been disqualified), do not justify his shit

Congrats to Dark Shadow and Tokoyami for being the only hero (student) to make it past B

Needless to say I love villains, Dabi is by far my favourite, followed by Himiko, they are way more engaging and convincing than the heroes. And by convincing I mean it actually feels like they are going to put in effort to make their goals happen, not just wish really hard. I truly wish we could have seen how Shigaraki's goals shifted during his reign over the PLF. We had already seen how he wanted the League to be happy and an exception to his goal of destruction

[whateverthought]

I think, the craziest thing to me, about how people genuinely believe you can't be a Quirkless Pro-Hero in MHA/BNHA, is that having a Quirk doesn't mean you're invulnerable?

Eraserhead's Quirk only allows him to stop other people's powers, but the fighting? Thats him. The giant jump he does over the stairs? The way he throws people around with his capture weapon?

Endeavor makes hot flames, how did that help when Hood the Nomu bit through his arm? We see that his skin cuts like everyone else's, he gets his scar right before that. Hawks stabbing him in the back to make him go faster? Embedded enough to give him speed but not enough to pierce right through him? He goes toe to toe with the Nomu in the Stain Arc, that's all normal strength!

Stain's Paralysis doesn't make him faster, how was he dodging Iida's speed? How were his reflexes so good he moved past AfO Izuku's strikes?

Mandalay's telepathy, how did that help her agility? Sir Nighteye's Foresight, did it make him strong enough to throw those weights? Did Mirio's Permeation make him stronger even when he lost it and was still beating Overhaul's face in? Rock Lock's stop-motion? Ragdoll's Search?

How did Thirteen's Quirk help when almost murdered? Shouldn't she, as someone with a very strong ability just be faster? Bakugo's Explosion did jack when his heart exploded, right? Why wasn't his body just sturdier? Or do they have normal bodies, like a Quirkless person would have?

[bicheetopuff]

I just saw the worst takes about bnha’s ending on Instagram (three days ago now, as of posting this). So, today we’re gonna talk about Izuocha, shonen homoeroticism, and fandom… not in that order though…

I: Fandom

Fandom culture for all media has basically always been a war zone that you have to actively avoid, usually with two defining sides: people who try to enjoy media the way they want to enjoy it, and the people who say that everyone is wrong and attack others who they don’t agree with. There are shades of gray on both sides, but in general this is usually the case. It’s never been “‘alphabet mafia’ vs ‘normal’” or “fanon vs canon” or “right vs wrong”… I almost always see people having fun being attacked unwarranted (I am not saying that people being legitimately problematic shouldn’t be called out, pls don’t get me wrong. I’m talking about innocent fun!). And I’m not just talking about dudebros attacking shippers, I’ve seen a lot of shippers attack non-shippers/other shippers of a different ship, and it’s almost always people just saying “you’re wrong, I’m right, and your take ruins this media piece of media for everyone else.” That being said, I wanna talk about the highlighted parts of these comments, okay? But first I need to explain the video that these comments were on.

It was a video by @/d_rich7 on Instagram, a big anime creator, talking about this tweet:

To summarize the video, he went on to say that he’s not surprised because bnha has the worst shipping community since Naruto and how Horikoshi probably felt forced into not confirming any ships because of “threats and hate mail” that he got from his fandom. I’ll come back to that but first I’ll talk about some of the comments:

“At least, they can say they weren’t the reason for the downfall of their anime.”

I've seen this take from different parts of the fandom, whether it was in regard to ships, todofam, or the villains. Just because the narrative of a story ends up matching the theories of people you disagree with, doesn't mean the story is going through a downfall. Just accept that you were wrong and move on. It is okay to not like certain aspects of the story and it's okay to discuss and criticize it, but pinning the blame on people who just happened to be right, no matter how much you hate it, is not okay.

“People need to stop demanding the literal CREATOR of a series to do things how they want it done…They to learn it’s not their story to tell…”

“…like I don’t get how people who have no impact on the writing of a story get mad because the CREATORS don’t wanna use their personal ideas.”

“…from now on imma blame the fandom for fucking up the anime/manga, we could’ve had a better ending if it wasn’t for them…”

Outside of the context, I actually agree with the sentiment that fans shouldn't feel so entitled that they think they have any control over the media they're consuming. But, the commenters don't realize that they're doing the exact thing that they’re talking about. They're convinced that the queer shipping community is the reason the creator decided not to confirm any relationship and are pissed off that the ship they were rooting for, didn't happen. Why are they exempt from this rule? Because straight ships are supposed to happen and queer ships aren't? Because the boy is supposed to win the girl at the end in order to develop a good shonen? I'll go into the misogynistic implications of that later.

Other than that, I have seen a lot of people on tumblr get mad about other things, like before, regarding to the villains and todofam drama to the point that they started insulting Hori. Like I said, it's okay to be mad. Being mad about something doesn't make you a bad person but it was never our story to tell. Criticism and hate, are two different things and come off very differently.

“MHA’s fandom is filled to the brim with toxic, no shower taking, furry loving, lgbtq idiots…”

Honestly I added this one because he's right. We're here, we're queer, and we're idiots in the best way possible. However, I think this also says the quiet part out loud when it comes to the hatred towards bnha and it's fandom.

Shipping communities in other fandoms don't get anywhere near as harassed as often as the shipping communities in the bnha fandom despite not being much different. The difference is, a lot of us identify as and are recognized as queer and Hori himself even recognized that the LGBT community especially took a liking to his manga. But, in other fandoms, it's only okay to consider queer ships if they're recognized by the cishet audience.

Most people in the aot fandom don't have an issue with eremin because it was something recognized and memed by straight men, even if it was mostly as a joke. The kny fandom doesn't care about inotan because it was also recognized and memed by straight men. Narusasu doesn't get much hate anymore because the straight men of their fandom also started to recognize the characters weird obsession with each other and it became more difficult to ignore the ship since there was literally multiple accidental kiss scenes--one of the few times where the source material actively encourages shipping. I can keep going too.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, non-shonen animes with majority cishet women as their audience, no one bats an eye at their ships either, because there's not enough men in their communities to tell them they should feel ashamed for their fanon content and their words hold no weight… and there’s a lot less queer people in those fandoms. You see the trend, right? It's almost like queer shipping is perfectly okay and mostly accepted as long as the community is either majority cishet men, or those men grant permission/approval for the specific ships or the piece of media wasn’t “meant for men.” Otherwise, it's seen as gross and cringe.

There was one other community that was kind of similar to bnha in a sense that it was mostly consumed by queer people and cishet men, where there was a lot of discourse on whether the two main characters were queer or not… which is the Buddy Daddies fandom. When the show was airing, those two sides that I talked about earlier were pretty apparent, with people having heated arguments about whether there were queer undertones or not. The cishet men of the fandom didn't give their approval to ship Rei and Kazuki, so it became an issue. Same with JJK now, more so with itafushi though. SatoSugu was given a somewhat stamp of approval but itafushi is still seen as taboo.

However, for some reason, every queer ship and character (even if it's canon) in bnha is seen as something shameful to recognize which I think is very telling considering how large the queer and disabled part of the fandom is. Minorities are being punished for relating to a manga with discrimination as one of it's core themes. Do what you want with that...

“…hate-mail just pushed him over the edge so he just scrapped everything just as punishment to spite them…”

This kind of references rumors from a few years ago about the shipping community sending hate mail and death threats towards Horikoshi and everyone just running with it without doing their research.

Horikoshi did receive death threats but it was about Dr.Garaki's original name which you can read about here. It was mostly the eastern side of the fandom being aggressive, even going as far as posting videos of them burning the volume where Garaki's name was revealed which isn't okay. However, everyone blamed it on the western shipping community... for whatever reason...

There was another instance where people in the western fandom started sending Horikoshi death threats on his twitter because of a chapter about Endeavor getting attacked by Dabi and an Nomu and the Todo family being worried about him, people claiming that Hori "deserved to die" for romanticizing and glorifying abuse (when that wasn't at all the case, I'm genuinely confused on how they interpreted that...). This came out six years ago but somehow is still narrowed down to the queer community and women being toxic... like what? Do you see my point now of it feeling like we need to be granted permission to do certain things in fandom if we don't want to be punished?

Also who was Hori punishing by not confirming any ships? If anything, I’ve seen most shippers appreciative than not…

II: Ochako Uraraka and her relationship with Izuku Midoriya

Back to that point about misogyny that I mentioned earlier...

"...I would have lowkey wish we got to see deku and ochaco end up together since their relationship was hinted from the beginning..."

Quick warning... this is gonna be a long point.

Yes, they were attracted to each other at the beginning, no one is denying that. No one is denying Ochako’s crush either. Izuku’s nervous around her for the first like 50-ish chapters because he's still used to having friends (especially a girl. If you think about it, if his childhood friends were the only friends he had ever had before getting shunned by his community, then he had never had a girl as a friend before... ever) but their relationship eventually mellows out into a normal friendship. Given Ochako and Toga's arc, I don't think Izuocha was ever destined to end romantically.

Toga was desperate to be loved by someone who accepted her for who she was while Ochako was desperate to be able to show love to someone who she truly admired. Ochako wanted to be like Deku and tried for a while until she realized that she couldn’t and shouldn’t want to be like Deku. She thinks he’s amazing but she realizes that she can’t strive to be like him because she’s already like him but wants to change.

(this is kind of off topic but I just want to point out what Ochako said about Toga being sad about not being able to totally become Jin. Correct me if I'm remembering wrong but, Toga was only able to ever transform into Ochako completely, quirk and all. I think there's an analogy there, where her being able to be just like someone possibly means she's in love with them but she convinces herself that she loves everyone equally. I think it's supposed to be saying that "even though you can't be him completely, doesn't mean you don't love him, you just don't love him in the way you thought you did" and I think Ochako realizes that because she possibly had the same realization with Izuku. Becoming him didn't work out for her because she didn't love him the way others told her she did... I guess it wasn't off topic... oh well.)

The highlighted parts can apply to Ochako too if you replace “bloodlust” with “envy”. She suffered the same issue that Toga did with other people telling her how and who to love which made her feel like she was supposed to be jealous.

She didn't like these feelings of jealousy, so she began to unintentionally be like Deku and hide them. I don't think she ever had an issue with loving Deku but she had an issue with the way she convinced herself of how she loved Deku made her feel. It made her feel like she was hiding something because I think she felt conflicted for not loving him the way everyone expected her to. All the way up to her final fight with Toga, we were only getting intel about her crush from other characters. Not her.

There's a lot of Mina just telling her what her feelings are despite Mina canonically not knowing much about love. Her crush has always been projected onto her which is why she's able to relate to Toga so well and wants to be more like her since Toga is able to live as herself so comfortably and broke away from conformity and what's expected of her.

Ochako's crush is only there because it's expected to be and her arc is meant to prove that she can be more than just the MCs love interest. Ochako's projected crush is Horikoshi trying to prove a point about basic shonen tropes which he's done time and time again throughout the story. SHE WANTS TO LIVE AND LOVE HOW SHE PLEASES WITHOUT SOCIETY TELLING HER HOW TO JUST LIKE TOGA WAS ABLE TO DO! I WILL KEEP SAYING IT UNTIL MY THROAT IS RAW AND DUDEBROS BEGIN TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND AND NOT VIEW FEMALE CHARACTERS AS NOTHING MORE THAN EYE CANDY FOR THE MALE CHARACTERS!!!

In the epilogue. she hides her feelings with a smile because she doesn't want to worry anyone (sound familiar?) so it only makes sense that it was Deku who pushed her to let out her feelings despite not practicing what he preaches. So, she embraced her inner Himiko and let out her feelings with her whole face. Those feeling just weren't for Deku... and they shouldn't have to be.

I genuinely feel like (especially with the way dudebros hate queer ships in this fandom) if Ochako was a boy, her arc wouldn't have been so widely misinterpreted. Because if he had talked about how amazing Izuku was and Mina came in and still said "It's love!" most fans would've taken it as a joke and/or even going as far as pointing out that the crush wasn't real because he didn't actually admit to it and it was projected onto him by other characters. But, the world ain't ready for that conversation.

"...I saw it as the fandom tryn to force their ships into the story 100% ruining key moments..."

I mainly added this quote because I thought it was so absurd. How do you see class-a coming to support Ochako as "omg it's the fandom forcing their agenda and controlling Hori through mind control to force their ships into the story and ruin this key moment,"??? Like, is it really so unthinkable that Horikoshi can have creative freedom outside the norm of treating girl characters as a trophy for the MC? You expected Izuku to marry her on the spot while she's having a mental breakdown? It's just... anyways...

III: Old-Gen Shonen Homoeroticism and it's Relation with Internalized Misogyny and how New-Gen is Changing That

The Shonen genre - especially old gen - is notorious for it's accidental misogyny, queerphobia, and racism. It got to the point where it's just kind of expected at this point.

The main one is usually misogyny. A lot of shonen mangaka like to write women as nothing more than eye candy and when they are actually given a personality and power, their character arcs are suddenly ignored/neglected and turned back into eye candy. Take Tsunade and Nezuko for example. We're told that they're important and powerful and yet they rarely do anything and almost never get important speaking lines and when we get to see them in action, the author makes sure to highlight certain parts of their bodies. Nezuko I think is an especially obvious one, being literally muzzled for most of the story, and when she powers up, she grows up and is suddenly given huge boobs...

Almost every shonen girls' character arcs revolves around a man and if not, then their existence is for the sake of a male character. I will say, I havent watched much shonen because of this aspect that's always apparent, but almost every older shonen I've watched, read, or seen other people talk about, it rears its ugly head at least once.

Because of that, most love interests weren’t given enough personality to actually form a meaningful relationship with the MC that the audience - especially female and queer audiences - can connect to. More often than not, it’s “I like her cuz she’s pretty” or “I like her cuz she likes me” and it’s irritating. And since these relationships are so shallow, authors are forced to create an interesting bond between the MC and a different character which usually ends up being the deuteragonist who is usually another boy more often than not. And boys in media written “for boys” are almost never neglected the way a girl would be, which is a sad truth.

These relationships almost always end up feeling like they’re passed the point of friendship and because of that, a lot of women and queer people end up shipping them instead of the canon love interest. Because their relationship being romantic actually makes sense most of the time.

BakuDeku, Eremin, KilluaGon, NaruSasu, ItaFushi, SatoSugu, IsaBachi, HideKan, GenoSai, LawLight, the list can go on for fucking ever.

However, in bnha and BakuDeku’s case, especially when the “canon” relationship with the “canon” love interest wasn’t really developed at all, and we never got a hint from Deku that he liked her, I don’t think this homoeroticism wasn’t intentional. Like with a lot of new-gen, there wasn’t really blatant misogyny towards the “love interest” present to explain away the closeness between the two male leads.

All of the roles a love interest would usually have, were given to Katsuki. He was damseled for Deku to save, he was Deku’s biggest cheerleader, he risked his life to save Deku, he died in Izuku’s honor, he showed up for Izuku when no one else thought to, he showed up to his hospital room and cried over the condition he was in, and then he devoted nearly a decade of his life trying to bring Izuku’s dream back into fruition… He cares so fucking much and Izuku cares right back. And no one can convince me that it was accidentally gay, because Horikoshi literally felt the need to tell AND remind us that Katsuki doesn’t like girls. Plus, like I said before, all of that was done without neglecting Uraraka’s character arc.

But even though all of that is in text, I think shonen bros just expect it while also expecting the main girl and boy to be together… because that’s how it always used to be. It wasn’t until new-gen - starting with mha - started to purposely parody dated shonen tropes and twisting them into their own stories that shonen bros began to feel threatened by queer ships. Because they know that there’s actually a chance of them happening now, and I feel like IzuOcha not being canonized is the beginning of a new trend. And misogynistic anime fans already hate it.

Conclusion - TLDR

uh idk what to say here.

In conclusion, fandom culture kinda sucks because of unexpected reasons, Ochako’s character arc is ignored for the sake of men wanting her to be Izuku’s prize and it’s irritating as fuck, and I think previously accidental homoeroticism in old-gen shonen is becoming purposeful in new-gen shonen as new-gen slowly becomes more progressive and less misogynistic. Oh and bkdk canon ig (I don’t think I’ve ever said that before, strangely enough…)

[jp---v]

Chapter 1 Midoriya(Post Sludge Villain) vs Chapter 430 Midoriya

Wanna talk about lack of character growth? How about regression? As a teacher, I'm pretty sure Midoriya could've used the UA facilities to stay fit. Instead, he's practically the same scrawny, quirkless boy who wants to be a hero he was at the start of the series.

His suit is loose on him. There's nothing filling it up. His muscle is gone.

He gave up.

Hero=Quirk

Nothing changed. All the fighting, the pain he went through, and it did nothing. Society as a whole is relying on heroes more than ever, despite leading a movement for acceptance of heteromorphs Shoji still hides his face with his mask, and you can't be a hero without a quirk.

[delawaredetroit]

Exhibit A of how Aizawa's decision to pair Izuku and Bakugou was only intended for Bakugou's growth. There is no mention or concern about how Bakugou's presence stunts Izuku's growth as well. He was only concerned about Bakugou's personal stagnation.

The dadzawa characterization seems to have poisoned a lot of the fandom to Aizawa's actual earlier characterization. At least early on, Aizawa primarily treats Izuku as a burden, a strawman to tear down about All Might's brand of heroics, or as an obstacle to Bakugou's character development.