#its like what people think shadowclan is

[lifesteallord]

GOOD GOD STOP GIVING US THUNDERCLAN POVS LET ME OUT THIS BITCH !!! SHOW ME WINDCLAN IN MODERN DAY PLEAAAASEEEEEEEEE

[clashingcolorsss]

ASC STAR SPOILERS!!!

Regarding Frostpaw’s name:

I saw some people didn’t like her full name but I think it’s so good, if slightly unexpected (I was anticipating Frostcurl/Frostfeather, Frostriver, Frostshine, even her becoming leader and skipping straight to Froststar in some bizarro timeline).

First off, now she matches the other two protagonists with day/night themed names:

Nightheart = Night or Midnight (the “heart” of night)

Sunbeam = Daybreak or Noon (when the sun comes out or when it’s at its highest)

Frostdawn = Dawn (self explanatory)

Which is fun when you consider how their respective times of day match their arcs.

Nightheart is this angsty guy who lives in the shadow of his Grandfather, but finds peace in that darkness.

Sunbeam leaves ShadowClan and grows more confident in herself (similar to how the sun rises from where it started to midday).

And Frostdawn leads RiverClan into a new day, similar to what Curlfeather spoke of in the prologue.

It’s not the golden dawn Curlfeather planned for her, but rather her own cold morning in the wake of Splashstar’s bloody sunset.

[snailstep-and-her-clan]

So how did Tuliptail die and how did her parents react? Also do they have anymore kids?

This has been in my inbox for a while because I needed to figure out how to approach it.

I know the people who follow blogs like mine are mainly here for the pretty pictures, but a comic seemed like such a difficult undertaking for this particular part of the story.

And even though I am a writer, I haven't had a lot of energy to write these days even though I know exactly how this would play out...

So lets try a very bare bones script like how I would format the dialogue in my comics !

Here goes:

The Carrion Place

*Snail and Tulip are on a hunt together as new warriors. they pause at the top of a steep hill overlooking the carrion place (dump/scrapyard)*

Snailstep: Do you remember the scary stories Magpieleap would tell during leafbare when we were little?

Tuliptail: You mean about the rat king?

Snailstep: That's the one. Do you think it's real?

*the two of them stare down in silence for a moment before Tuliptail starts to climb her way down the hill.

Tuliptail: Well, only one way to find out!

Snailstep: Huh? wait- what are you doing?! We've been told to never go in there!

Tuliptail: Yeah, when we were apprentices! but we're warriors now.

Snailstep: So what? not even the senior warriors go in there! you can get cut up by twoleg rubbish and you can't even hunt the rats because they just make everyone sick, remember?

Tuliptail: who said anything about hunting them? I just want to have a look around. You don't have to come if you're going to be a mouseheart. *passes the threshold of the wide open chain link gate*

*snailstep hesitates, looking anxious and frustrated, before following after her sister, ears flat and tail bristling*

*as the two girlies vanish into the junkyard, the ghost of Firebright follows after them*

*Tuliptail is curiously sniffing and messing around with random scrapped items, meanwhile Snail is looking tense and glancing around*

*A rat skitters past, knocking several things down a huge pile of junk and Snail jumps back, arching her back*

Snail: That rat was the size of an apprentice!

Tuliptail: really? I must have missed it.

Snailstep: Look, we've had a look, can we go now? this place stinks of rats and twoleg filth, and it's giving me the creeps!

Tuliptail: The creeps? come on, its smells but it's not like there's anything to really be scared of so far.

Snailstep: It just feels like we're being watched, and I don't-

*more twoleg junk crashes and clatters, making both cats jump. there is a dark hollow in the rubbish, and Tuliptail slowly approaches it. Snailstep hesitates, but takes a few steps forward*

*the ghost of Firebright suddenly appears beside her (Nelly's ghost in the car in haunting of hill house style), screaming* RUN!!!

*the rat kind emerges, a great swarming pile of rats that descends upon the two cats, overwhelming them*

*fighting off any rats that attack them, the two she-cats flee blindly into the dump, pursued by a mod of large rats, Firebrights ghost running alongside Snailstep*

*as snailstep runs, she passes a dog house, and the junkyard dog lunges from the darkness, snapping at her. Tuliptail launches herself onto the dogs face before it can do anything. a two leg sitting on the porch drinking a can of beer stands up, shouting as the two cats keep running. The dog is chained and cannot follow, straining at its chain and snapping. The two leg grabs a shotgun and aims at the fleeing cats*

*there's a loud explosion sound, and Snailstep keeps running and running until she's far into shadowclan territory unable to run anymore. she looks around and realizes that Tuliptail is no where to be seen. Snailstep yells for her, frantically searching (think Bambi when his mom died)*

*back at the carrion place, the twoleg grabs the lifeless body of a cat and throws it into the piles of filth. when he's gone, the rats begin to creep out from hiding to inspect it*

How did the parents react?

Something like this:

But also have some actual writing:

Duskheart sat at the gnarled roots of the great oak, his stiff shape blocking the entrance to Cherrystar's den like a heavy stone. He greeted her approach with one terse sentence.

"Cherrystar doesn't wish to see anybody."

Not even me? The words died in Snailstep's throat. Duskheart's hard, unreadable face told her the answer.

"Oh. Ok." As Snailstep turned away in defeat, tail dragging in the dust, she felt Duskheart's cold blue eyes fixed on her back.

He wishes it had been me instead. The thought pricked her like thorns, and she flinched. Duskheart may not be a demonstrative mate or father, but Tuliptail had been his kit. He must resent Cherryspeckle's adopted kit for surviving when his own blood had not.

***

"Have you eaten?" Duskheart's voice pulled Snailstep from the deep dark hole that had been steadily swallowing her up. Her former mentor stood over her, glaring down at her.

"I- I'm not hungry."

"I didn't ask if you were hungry, I asked if you'd eaten."

"no." Snailstep scored her claws into the dark soil, looking away.

Duskheart turned and padded away without another word. Snailstep curled back into a tight ball and closed her eyes.

The feel of fur pressed against her back and the scent of sparrow made her look up. Duskheart was laying beside her, shoving the bird under her nose with a paw. "Eat."

She shoved it away irritably. what was his problem? "I said I wasn't hungry."

"Mousefang told me you've not had a meal in almost two days. Eat."

Why does anyone care?

"Just give it to the queens or something." Snailstep turned her back on him, rolling back into a ball like a pillbug.

"Are you ill?" Duskheart asked curtly. "Do you need Mousefang to check on you?" She could hear the vaguest hint of sarcasm in his mew.

"Leave me alone Duskheart." She growled. "You're not my mentor anymore."

"But I'm your father."

His words made her sit up and stare at him. To her even further confusion and amazement, Duskheart leaned forward, awkwardly licking her between the ears.

"Cherryspeckle and I have already lost one daughter." He murmured in his low, cold voice. "I have no intention to sit idly by while our other one starves herself to death."

Snailstep tried to choke back a sob but failed. Duskheart continued to silently groom her as the tears welled up and spilled out onto her paws.

[hadescabin]

TW// GROOMING, MANIPULATION breaking down tigerheartstar and dovewing and why i think its awful ik I said that I dont really like warrior cats anymore but recently i've been thinking about some stuff regarding the series and its fandom and there's one thing that's been particularly bothering me. dovewing and tigerheart. it's just crazy to see the shift of support for tigerdove considering early 2010s warriors fandom seemed mixed on them. now there seems to be this equivocal support for them, probably because most of the fandom's exposure to the couple has been the recent books which frames them as man who loves his wife x burnt out prophecy kid who will do anything for her malewife. which theres nothing wrong with that dynamic, i think it's cute, but people really seem to forget about how tigerheart straight up groomed and treated dovewing awfully throughout oots and even in tigerheart's shadow. it seems to be a forgotten fact that tigerheart was a full grown warrior by the time he was pursuing dovepaw, who was a newly made apprentice. for perspective, this was a 6-7 moon teenager with someone almost the age of her mentor (a little younger). people try to use the excuse "oh but they're cats" and "the age gap isnt that bad" but even the recent books acknowledge with frostpaw and splashtail, that a warrior and apprentice dating is WEIRD. tbf oots was released in the early 2000s, but the fact that canonically speaking the age gap is seen as a teenager and adult relationship gives me the ick. it really puzzles me to see people get on ships like dustfern and bramblesquirrel (both of which i hate btw) for their age gaps but come up with every excuse in the books to defend tigerdove. its not even just the age gap too, again, their relationship has consisted of tigerheart manipulating and grooming dovepaw to do what he wants. in the first two books (esp the second book of oots) dovepaw is presented as someone who got attached to the cats from the journey and doesnt necessarily understand why they must act like they shouldnt exist anymore due to the borders. this is something that tigerheart LEARNS and actively takes advantage of when dovepaw questions why hes at their borders (tldr its dark forest stuff). he shifts the topic and then goes on about the journey and how he felt that they almost became friends, and that if they were in the same clan things would be easier. this may not seem like a big deal, but this goes on for the rest of their interactions whenever tiger needs to pressure her to do something she doesnt want (meeting up, trusting him, etc.) He realizes that the subject of different borders resonates with her and uses it to his advantage whenever he wants something out of her. This can especially be seen in the next book, “Night Whispers”, which kickstarted their relationship. Dovepaw accidentally ran into ShadowClan territory while hunting, and Tigerheart happens to find her there. Once again, he gives her a speech about borders being meaningless, before asking her to meet up with him before the ShadowClan patrol catches them. There’s also other examples in later books where he coerces her into meeting up or trusting him since “that’s what friends are for” or even later in that book, where he manipulates her into using Ivypaw as a captive for herbs. 

When you take this into account, plus him as a full grown warrior, starting a romantic relationship with a barely apprenticed Dovepaw who is shown as having a childish/ immature perception on romance/mates (such as her argument with Ivypaw and claiming that she should “find her own mate”), Tigerdove feels very much like grooming to me. According to the dictionary definition grooming is, “the action of attempting to form a relationship with a child or young person, with the intention of sexually assaulting them”. Of course, in this case, since it’s a young adult book, it’s to form a romantic relationship, which could also be another goal of grooming. Groomers tend to display manipulative behaviors towards the victims in order to coerce them into trusting them more. Whether that be through compliments, gifts, trying to resonate with them or make them feel special. They tend to try to get them to keep and “share�� secrets, which is another tactic they utilize both to isolate the victim and to get them to feel more comfortable. 

A lot of behaviors that Tigerheart displays towards Dovepaw falls under this, including the examples I mentioned. There are a couple of other comments that he makes which come off as creepy such as Dovepaw “being his favorite sister”, which as I established, is something a groomer would say in order to make the victim feel as though they’re special and garner their trust. Which is especially the case when you note that he makes that comment in reference to Dovepaw asking about his ties to Ivypaw, which he actively lies about, and quickly reassures her that there’s nothing going on. 

This tactic of manipulation, where he either makes her feel special, or even love bombs and dissuade her from standing up for herself, doesn’t stop when she’s an apprentice. It continues when she’s a warrior, and is constantly used throughout OOTS and “Tigerheart’s Shadow”. At one point in the series, Dovewing and Tigerheart get into an argument about Dawnpelt wrongfully accusing Jayfeather of murder. When Tigerheart defends his sister, Dovewing stands up for Jayfeather, which prompts Tigerheart to try and manipulate her out of the conversation. He jumps straight to talking about how much he loved and missed her, and guilts her by asking why they had to argue like this, and why they couldn’t just “meet like before”. As for Tigerheart's Shadow, he actively goes against what she wants (to raise her kits outside the clan) and actively pressures and guilts her into coming back, before she finally relents. He doesn't care about what SHE wants, it's always about him. Whether it be secretly meeting up, or in The Last Hope, he tries to pressure her to date him again (which she FINALLY refuses and scolds him for thinking about his own needs when they're right before a final battle. as she should). It's especially upsetting in the newest book that tigerheart seems to be the only think at the center of her character. when she argues with ivypool, it's less about the two sister's interpersonal conflicts and more about her and tigerheart's relationship. which...feels like a lot of missed potential to me? i want them to argue, i want dovewing to stand up to herself against ivypool, but why does the entire conflict have to revolve around him? why can't dovewing have her own thoughts and feelings without it tying back to her awful husband?

[bonefall]

Question about Tiger- what WAS his end goal? We know that he wanted to be TC leader but he really quickly pivoted to "world forest domination" after that failed, which is one of those things that feels like thistle's law would oppose. Also why did he start going after half clan cats while also preaching for the clans uniting under him and him alone one leader? Other than kitty racism of course.

(Gently) If you think that Thistle Law would oppose total forest takeover, then I really recommend you head over to the masterpost on Thistle Law as a concept. Nothing about Thistle Law is isolationist, never has been

The ideology sets itself apart from Hard Traditionalism because it becomes willing to enforce some standard of xenophobic purity. That's what Tigerstar wanted to do. There is no "other than kitty racism." That's it. Stonefur, Mistyfoot, Stormpaw, and Featherpaw's lives are the result of codebreaking and that makes them lesser than other cats.

There is no logical reason for bigotry. It's not a principle. It doesn't make sense. It's reactionary discomfort and cruelty given form.

Tigerstar wanted to decide who was pure enough to live and who was filthy enough to die. These categories are arbitrary.

(Under the cut TW: speaking frankly about miscegenation, segregation, and genocide.)

"But if they all united under one Clan, then they'd just start mixing in the end, wouldn't they?"

No. They wouldn't. The steps go like this;

The groups live together and mingle too closely. To prevent them from interbreeding, the code is emphasized.

Someone breaks the code. They are punished.

The kits are dealt with; either eliminated or considered lesser.

But every birth of mixed children poses an "existential" threat. "Purity" is a concept that has to be protected, if a Pure parent mixes with the wrong parent, ALL of the resulting children are dirty. It is a threat to the concept of purity.

And this continues to happen, and "purity" must be protected, so... the groups need to be kept separate.

There is no such thing as "separate but equal." One group is an underclass, prevented from moving freely. This would have been RiverClan.

But the groups continue to mingle, people won't stay put in a ghetto. More extreme measures are taken. Sterilization, kidnapping, execution...

But that still doesn't work. There's only one solution; Genocide.

The logical conclusion of this ideology is genocide. That's where it ends. It doesn't matter if the fascist believes this at the stage he's at or not; that is the built-in conclusion.

Fascism is a death cult.

Tigerstar's goal was to take over the forest and arbitrarily decide which cats would be "True" cats of TigerClan. He would have weeded out cats seemingly at random, but heavily favored ShadowClan. Eventually, the Clans would shift into various classes, before each one is systemically eliminated.

IF he went unopposed. Fascism is unstable. Hyperemotional, self-obsessed, frothing egotists are REALLY bad at organizing government and its very structure is prone to infighting.

The enemy is everywhere, both strong and weak. You live in a constant state of paranoia. You waste all your money on ridiculous vanity weapon projects and overestimate your abilities to absurdity. You kill off all the intellectuals because you're too fragile to be told no. The biggest liar in history is the person who equated any kind of fascism with "evil genius," spite is blinding and insecurity makes you do stupid things.

Turns out, that's really bad for holding onto power. These regimes crumble like a shitty jenga tower eventually; problem is, they're deadly before that point and drag down thousands of innocent people on the way down.

[aroaceleovaldez]

I’ve seen quite a few people discuss TSATS specifically in the manner that it’s supposed to be a middle-grade book, and I’d like to throw my two cents into the hat.

Particularly, I don’t think it’s reasonable to excuse the failings of TSATS just because it’s supposed a middle-grade book. The failings of the book are primarily structural, both narratively and just in basic writing structure, neither of which are excusable of a middle-grade novel - Especially given this is Mark Oshiro’s first major foray into middle-grade, as they typically write YA. It also seems that TSATS’ rating is actually upper middle-grade, so there’s even less excuse for the quality of the book. The problem isn’t that the book is bad to a non-middle-grade reader, or even bad as a middle-grade book, the problem is that the book is bad in general. So much of the book’s quality and execution feels just so poor in ways that you would typically expect to get caught very early on by the editorial team. Being middle-grade doesn’t excuse it being structurally bad for any reading level. It feels like the editorial team didn’t care about the quality of the book at all. There’s an unreasonable amount of places where the sentence and paragraph structures are poor, the writing is unclear, there’s basic continuity errors within the same sentence, the pacing is bad, and an overall lack of grammatical consistency (you can actually tell which portions of the book are written by Rick Riordan versus Mark Oshiro based purely on the use of s’ or s’s - if you see something like “Hades’s palace“ then it’s Riordan, and if it’s something like “Hades’ palace” then it’s Oshiro - this type of inconsistency should have been made consistent by the editing team).

The book also completely fumbles its attempts at handling its intended themes with any kind of grace or respect to the reader. TSATS being middle-grade (particularly upper middle-grade) doesn’t mean it can’t feature heavy themes, or that it has to dumb them down for a younger audience! I speak as someone who is extremely familiar with the Animorphs series - which is actually lower middle-grade. It’s basically like the poster-child for presenting complex themes and ideas appropriately in a middle-grade series. The way middle-grade is formatted is it’s about the writing structure (how simplified vs complex it is and so how easy is it for a middle-grade reader to understand) and how the concepts are presented, not about the actual concepts themselves. Animorphs is a really good example of this in that most of the books are less than 300 pages and the language is very simple. However, it doesn’t shy away from strong topics or dumb concepts down for the audience. It balances heavy topics with jokes in stride (see: The entire book about psychochemical warfare and the ethics of that, but the psychochemical warfare in question is dumping instant maple and ginger oatmeal on space slugs). And a lot of Animorphs books are actually ghostwritten! I would also argue the Warrior Cats books are another good example, particularly the novellas. They’re a similar length to TSATS, again written by a team of authors, are middle-grade rated, and don’t shy away from some pretty graphic stuff. They’re not the best books in the world, I mean, they’re rapidly churned out cat books for middle-schoolers. And they also tend to be full of errors. But at the very least most of the errors in the Warrior cat novellas aren’t basic structural stuff that you’d expect an editor to comb out within the first couple of passes or major basic details for a very prominent character or worldbuilding. Something equivalent to the types of errors in TSATS would be like a warrior cats novella about Brightheart not remembering how she got her scars or who Swiftpaw was or what Shadowclan is called, and every three chapters you read the jankiest sentence you’ve ever seen.

There are absolutely ways for the types of themes they were trying to handle in TSATS to be presented to a middle-grade audience appropriately, effectively, and with respect. TSATS was not even close to that. Again, I point to Animorphs! You wanna talk about writing PTSD for a middle-grade audience? Animorphs is your series. Animorphs gets into some heavy shit. But the way it’s presented is always appropriate for a middle-grade audience. Middle schoolers can handle more than people give them credit for (have you ever read middle-schoolers roleplaying warrior cats? I have. they do not hold back.) - they’re at the exact age where that type of stuff is not only interesting to them and they want to read about it, but that it’s important for them to begin to be introduced to those types of concepts in a way that’s appropriate for their age so that they’re prepared for when they encounter those topics or themes when they’re older.

The first Percy Jackson series actually does this really well! Percy has PTSD in the first book from Gabe! This is very clearly acknowledged and referenced throughout the first series (and even into Son of Neptune!) - and it’s specifically from Gabe, not being a demigod. We see characters grapple with grief and witnessing death and being in shock from that (the “dam” scene post-Bianca’s death, and the explicit acknowledgement that all the characters are so emotionally exhausted and harrowed from witnessing Bianca sacrifice herself for them that they get all giggly over stupid “dam” jokes). TSATS refuses to allow any emotional pay-off from the scenes. The Gorgyra interludes are the only thing keeping the pacing from being absolutely abhorred for half the book. There’s tons of narrative set-up that goes nowhere. There’s sentences that are so disjointed you wonder how they got written in the first place. This book shouldn’t have gotten past the editors, honestly.

[fan-clan-fun]

This isn't fan clan related, but I'm curious. If you were to take the four clans (excluding SkyClan) and make them more unique, how would you do it? What I mean is what physique would you give ThunderClan? What distinctive skill would you give RiverClan? Will you give WindClan special customs? What about ShadowClan?

Gosh this is gonna be a long one. It's entirely possible I have answered something like this in the past, and if I have, and this answer is changed from that... well people grow and change too. So let's see what my thoughts are on the clan today. First off, I would focus on what miniscule stuff we get in the books and expand on it. Thunderclan - A very martial society, your rank is earned primarily based on your physical abilities, fighting, hunting, etc. I imagine their ceremonies and expectations revolve around that. They are loud, proud, obnoxious in some ways. They are... almost like Americans with how patriotic they are. Only partially kidding. They are the ones most likely to uphold the strictest niceties of the code, or pretend to anyway. Culturally, they are very into the mythos of heros, telling grand stories of cats who came before, and their exploits, and they value their lineage greatly. Oh, this hero was my sire's great great grandfather, and he did this. It also shows up in their naming conventions, as many kits are named after past heros, or cats the parents respected or want their kits to be like. Aside from attitude, they have skills primarily geared towards their forest environment. They should be able to climb trees, navigate through dense underbrush, and fight off the more abundant predators. As a result, bigger, tougher cats have thrived, whereas the smaller slimmer body types are not considered as attractive and are not as well represented. Scars are considered the height of beauty, as they show off the strength and prowess of a cat. It means they fought something and survived. Windclan - With the introduction of the tunnelers in the special edition, I feel like there's an interesting dichotomy to be found in Windclan. Ultimately, as much as I like it, and even would like to explore it, I feel like there was good reasoning for the tunnelers to be done away with. That said, those skills could be repurposed. To me, what marks Windclan is its ability to be adaptable.

With all its open spaces, I think Windclan would be well served as a semi-nomadic group, that has one or two different camps that it moves between based on the weather and prey density. For the winter, I imagine they shelter in a system of caves, which are maintained and cared for by a small group of tunnelers. In summer, they have an above ground camp, set at a somewhat high point in the territory, where they wouldnt get flooded out during a storm. As a result, cats are taught a wide set of skills. The clan works together at every step of the way, and a take down larger and faster pray like rabbits as a result. Windclan cats are used to traveling long distances, and being friendly with outsiders for a variety of reasons, information on movements of other cats or groups of them and food sources for example. I see Windclan as having the biggest territory, but also the sparsest when it comes to prey and population. Windclan is a very collaborative clan, they sing and tell stories to pass the time as they travel, building on one another for fantastical tales that bring hope and excitement during the bleaker times. They revere the stars, and the wind, and use the sky as their guide to travel. Their spirituality is focused on Starclan as a group, rather than individuals. There are many intricate stories and rituals that the clan performs under the stars, each season and each moon. Names hold great meaning, but are also often ethereal and based on feeling, rather than any particular meaning.

Because of the need to be agile, and survive long distances of travel, sleeker, smaller cats have thrived in the clan, as they require less food and are quick on their paws. Windclan cats rarely meet an enemy head on or one on one, using their agility to ambush and confuse any source of danger. Shadowclan - An ever practical clan, I see Shadowclan as having the smallest and least desirable territory, meaning this clan does what must be done. They are willing to bend the code if they need, in order to get what they want. At the same time, they are fiercely loyal to friends and family. Not necessarily the clan as an image, but the ones they care about. If you are looking for innovation, clever resolutions to problems, and independence of thought, Shadowclan is where you will find it. They'll propose puzzles to solve around the fresh kill pile to keep their minds sharp. There's little fear in this clan, nor much room for being picky. If something is edible, you take it, you bring it back.

Shadowclan often find themselves being called sneaky or duplicitous because they are willing to compromise the code, or use others to get what is needed for the clan to thrive, but really, its about survival. No hard feelings. They've learned to hide, to watch, to learn, that ambush and guerilla tactics are far more effective, and less likely to lose a clan member, than head on confrontation. As such, dark pelts are preferred, but otherwise, if it helps you survive? Thats all that matters.

To some of the other clans they appear irreverent, but to Shadowclan, its just common sense. Starclan isnt alive right now, they are gone. Sure they might be able to help, but might not. Cant rely on them and wait for them to help. Its better to do it yourself. The same can be said for names. Prefixes arent given much value, based only on material things, but your suffix? Thats what defines you, as it shows the skills and challenges you went through to get your name. There's often a fierce competition amongst apprentices to not end up with the same suffix, to be the best in the group at certain things. Riverclan - Riverclan are the epitome of work smarter, not harder. They have the most prosperous territory of the four, with a mostly guaranteed food source throughout the majority of the year, aside from the coldest winter months when things freeze over. The clan makes it its business to know everything there is to know about water, how it flows and pools, how to swim, how to manipulate its direction for the clan's benefit. All kits are taught how to swim from as young as possible. It's said that Riverclan apprenticeships are the hardest of the clans, as apprentices are expected to learn a lot, and take on a lot of responsibility. But once you become a warrior, you are much more prepared and settled, confident in your abilities. And by being aware of their skills and limitations, it allows warriors to know what they have to do, and how long it takes, and allows them the time to relax after. Many warriors seem lazy or childish, because they are reliving the childhood they never had, now that they are old enough to do so. But having the most prosperous food source, also makes Riverclan targets. They have developed a reputation of silver tongues, but also of being pushovers. At the same time, while other clan war far more frequently, Riverclan find themselves the peace makers and neutral arbiters. They are generous with their food and their resources in times of need, leaving other clans often in debt to them.

The physical traits that make a Riverclan cat effective, are thick fur to protect the body from cold water, and an ability to store fat easily. When Riverclan cats do end up in a fight, they don't back down or hide, they take others on directly, their fur and extra padding a layer of protection.

Their worship of starclan is rather traditional, but also not fanatic. They invoke Starclan for blessings regarding the weather, ask them to intercede about rain and storms. There is a belief that Starclan, like the stars reflecting on water, are reflecting in the living cats. Some Riverclan cats even whisper about reincarnations, that just like water comes from the sky, and returns to it, so do cats and their spirits. This means that like Thunderclan, many cats are named for cats from before, or names that have to do with water in its many forms. Well, I said it was gonna be a long one, and boy howdy it is. I havent written on canon clans for a hot minute, but I could probably expand and think on this more, I might never stop if I started though. Maybe this will give others some inspiration!

[sillspore]

im in my warrior cats era BUT BUT BUT !!!

i have some Ideas for kitty cat holidays bc i saw multiple people post abt how holidays would just Help with tension and also??? holidays and traditions are just my FAVORITE part of worldbuilding like theyre so cool an interesting and ajgsjdhfkfbdkfmgng

so first i definitely want a daylight gathering time kitty olympics, yearly on the summer solstice >:)

daylight gathering just makes SO MUCH SENSE, and definitely would help as an outlet for all the clan brand nationalism and violent urges

as motive to compete/to give the winner a reward i’d prob say like three days rest :33 here you go winner kitty sleep in for three days no work for you yes eat all the food you want

making it on the summer solstice is just bc i love solstice holidays + it’s the longest day of the year, more time to compete duh!!!

next, to parallel, something on the winter solstice for sure. maybe like every cat is forbidden from sleeping — on the longest night of the year, starclan honors them by staying visible for so long, the clans must honor them im return by honoring and celebrating them where they can see!

so feasts, kitty dancing, praying, cats burying prey to offer to starclan, and the next day is a day of rest :) every tired cat sleeps all day and no one works, eating from the feast’s leftovers

i think after a cat dies, each clan should have a specific way of putting them to rest. in general, the elders and family bury them, yes, but MORE. maybe after a cat dies, their family and closest companions are given seven days away from work to honor the dead cat and do the rituals to make sure the dead cat can make their way to starclan — perhaps the explanation for ghosts that uuuhhh the fuckin tree guy (i have no read recent arcs leave me Alone) can see is because no one did their rites :( so they couldnt find starclan/the afterlife

riverclan’s definitely has to do with water, perhaps covering the cat with willow or long flowing herbs before burial, and taking one whisker and herb before covering the cat up. these could be tied together, put in the river, and followed by family on the bank until the herb is past riverclan territory. or maybe riverclan don’t bury their dead at all, but float them into the river, and follow THAT until it’s passed territory, something like that idk

i think thunderclan would include rites of planting flowers and herbs representing the dead cat above their resting place, so that their body becomes one with the forest and their spirit can go to starclan :)

shadowclan, windclan, and skyclan are left with nothing bc i have no ideas :(

BRING BACK APPRENTICES VISITING THE MOONSTONE/POOL !!!! it was so interesting and a neat cultural thing for the battle cats :(

i understand it was boring to write about but ughhhhhh cmoonnnnn it was coooooool

maybe after the dark forest Fiasco, there’s a holiday of remembrance for the dead / the cats who fought and protected the clans from Certain Doom

idea: mothers don’t name their kits until they’re a moon old, bc its bad if they’re named and die young. currently workshopping but what if named kits who die are forced to go to starclan and stay eternally as a kit, but unnamed kits have no identity so they can “recycle” like kinda try again and be born again to a new queen and have a new chance at life??? anyway not being named until 1 moon helps ensure that a name will not be wasted and lets parents know their kits personalities and traits before naming so names can realistically reflect a cat’s character instead of JUST appearance

aaaaa okay that’s all for now but maybe more will come !

[firestarishomophobic]

just finished the 4th avos book i literally don’t even remember what it’s called but i have thoughts so. (its darkest night) AVOS SPOILERS

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still not sure how i feel about twigpaw but i LOVE violetshine. i LOVE that she’s shy and not so sure of herself but genuinely a great warrior and brave cat. she’s smart she’s kind and she’s a bit shy. very nice. ily violetshine u are a female character though so the erins r probably gonna slaughter your character.

rowanclaw is another character i absolutely adore. like OMG i think this is such an interesting plot point to think about. interesting questions about clan life and structure. what happens if a leader isn’t fit for the role? what happens if they step down? even if he doesn’t feel fit to lead the clan, he was such a good leader and cared so deeply for his clan that he stepped down. because that’s what was best. i also love how tawnypelt defends him! i love tawny she should be leading shadowclan.

bramblestar is so useless like he is doing absolutely nothing. at least firestar jumped into the lake to save jay’s stick. like he was doing shit. bramble just sits there all fucking day doing jack shit.

i also think tc has too many cats and the flood should have killed more of them i don’t even know who half these ppl are. who tf is rosepetal. who is stormcloud. who are these people. they also need to get better or more creative with names because why do we have leafstar, leafshade, leafpool, and leaftail? i do miss when names were more characteristic like fucking runningwind or tigerclaw. talltail, runningnose, etc. lame o. there are currently 2 mintfurs.

also ily tree i love violet x tree. autism to autism communication

[sirenemale]

I think an early example of warriors being weird about how they consider abuse victims (outside of dawn of the clans) is with violet and twig in avos. Having the pov of two sisters growing up in radically different places, one with love and multiple parent figures, and the other in an unstable violent home with no protection. Having that really inform how they make decisions as adults is really ambitious and I think they pull it off really well in the first 3 books.

I remember a scene where Twig sneaks into shadowclan to see Violet and Violet gets really upset at her for it. It could be used to show that Twig doesn't expect punishment, it's less of a concept to her outside of maybe a soft scolding because of her upbringing and maybe even bc of Thunderclan's culture in general since a lot of its cats tend to go out of their way like this (it's bc they're the pov clan but i like considering it as a characteristic of thunderclan at this point too). Violet however is frantic and unsure, she's literally felt like she was on thin ice since she was a toddler, she knows punishment in shadowclan right now is often pure violence or being kicked out entirely.

Like that's a good conflict, in twig's pov violet is just being unfair or mean. When twig does stay with her for a couple days and then says she's going back home, Violet gets upset, and angry because yeah she thought maybe she'd finally have one safe person back here. That's all fine, and it makes sense that Twig can't conceptualize how bad violet's position actually is. But I think on a meta level it's bizarre that they never feel the need to have twig learn that either, it's just accepted that violet needs to apologize for her behavior when she's being parried between multiple violent homes with flaky caregivers who actively tell her they don't want her yknow.

She ends up living under a violent cult, she watches people die. She watches her older sister figure who she had a problematic, complicated relationship with die for her and it Haunts her for the next 3 books even when the authors stop acknowledging her overall ptsd. And ik ppl rag on needletail as a bad caregiver, to me that's why it's interesting. Violet and needle both didn't have a choice in who was around for them, they were both traumatized and in their own heads, trying to find safety, trying to learn about how to be a person at all. They kept leaving eachother, letting eachother down, hurting eachother, almost none of it was good but they were still the most consistent thing eachother had at all.

And twig's conflict is she has too many parent figures but not her Real parents (read author's weird dismissal of adoption coming back) and she doesn't know what clan she wants to live in lmao. Yknow and then they fix violetshine's ptsd by giving her a boyfriend and her birth parents back.

[bonebabbles]

imo the concept of nightheart? good. the execution? arc isn’t over yet but… bleh. i think Nightheart/Sunbeam is annoying - that’s not even his fault, it’s the writers fault. i wish they let pairings build up a bit more in the recent arcs instead of “male cat meets female cat! instant love!” & I wish he stayed in ShadowClan because I’m tired of Protagonist Clan TM fhahdhsd. I think Nightheart hate is from ppl who don’t understand what having neglectful parents feels like and/or not liking NightSun. big agree on it being a pink flag

transmasc nightheart headcanons though? *chefs kiss*

ABSOLUTELY fair. Like I 100% agree there's valid reasons to dislike him, his romance, or the metatextual problematic elements of his arc (namely Sparkpelt's mishanding. She really has gotten a dirty deal).

It's more that there's a specific type of Nightheart Hater who is like... frothing at the mouth at the mention of him. With every release of the books. And then their hatred of him overpowers what's really interesting about the arc, which is its political tension

The same sorts of people who like, praise Frostpaw and say it should only be Frostpaw as a POV, but then write 10k words about Nightheart without ever mentioning Frost's plot once. Like... god. Reading the same discourse every 6 months gets so tiring to me

Which is why it's not a RED flag it's a pink one, y'know? Yes yes, the time knife/WC misogynistic writing, we've all seen it, what about it this time.

As for the transmasc headcanons I'm actually a lot more partial to Orange Nightheart ones. I love it when he gets annoyed. Make that man look like Firestar Dark Mode. Turn him orange in the sun. You are morally required to get as much orange on him as possible. Hit his ass with a paintball gun if you must.

[sycamorality]

Kind of a weird question but what’s the relation between rain world and warrior cats? I see so many people in the rw community bring up warrior cats but I’ve never read the books so I’m curious (although writing this somehow unlocked a vivid memory of me reading the prologue(?) to ice and fire when I was like 8). Is it just the cats? I feel like its more than that, is WC just really popular and this is a regular thing everywhere? I haven’t interacted with any communities before now so my experience is extremely limited, plus even I know about WC and I live under a rock so it wouldn’t surprise me

warrior cats is like four* clans - thunderclan, windclan, shadowclan and riverclan [river and wind are the better ones fight me /hj] and then later skyclan and they're all different groups of cats. thunder, wind, shadow and river originate from a tribe of cats that come from the mountains iirc but this wasnt original worldbuilding and came way later. our protagonist firestar [rusty or firepaw at the time of the first book] has dreams of hunting a mouse and goes out hunting and gets caught by graypaw [later graystripe] and fights him a little and then they stop and bluestar shows up, offering him to join thunderclan, and he has to take some time to decide and does decide to join the next day.

anyway thats like the one bit i recall from the first book. basically: four/five groups of cats living in the same territory each with their own customs [don't expect too much though]. riverclan cats can swim better than other cats, thunderclan are better fighters iirc, shadowclan, windclan can run faster and i don't know about skyclan. there's rules against having kits with a cat from another clan, and kittypets are treated as if they're inferior. there's also other groups of cats [evilclan[tm] and Other Group Of Cats] but they're not too important? sometimes the clans fight eachother. this happens in the first book where thunderclan and riverclan fight over sunningrocks.

anyway basically they're all cats and i think the overlap comes from slugcats so some people draw them more cat-like? i used to be in the wc community and i just thought the designs were fun, and it's also really fun making designs for the slugcats. some of my designs definently have inspirations from the sparklecat era... i'm not sure why exactly the overlap is there, but considering it's a big fandom, i'm not all that surprised. i assume it's the story elements of rain world that can be interesting [especially considering that uh. personal opinion. rain world's worldbuilding is much better and much less lackluster [downpour slightly excluded sorry]], and how we see the slugcats living in a colony. after downpour rain world had an [relative to pre-dp] explosion of popularity which could've definently lead more people to finding it.

personally! i really like the slugcats and the story parts of rain world, i'm just a general sucker for the lore, but my favorite part of rain world is definently the general worldbuilding and the scavengers, of course. i love how mysterious everything of rain world's world history is, and how little we really get to know about everything :p

[cryptidclaw]

Some people don't seem to understand that Bramble wasn't upset at the three, he took it out on them (wrongly) because he was upset he had been lied to by the cat he was supposed to be able to trust (by which she proved she didn't trust him.) People also seem to forget Bramble himself had adopted 'siblings' in Feathertail and Stormfur! I'm a psychology major (I'm graduating with my BA this summer so I'd like to think I'm a little qualified to profile and diagnose these fictional meow meows,) in the situation with Squirrel, Leaf and the three, Bramble didn't know who to take his frustrations and anger out on, hence it manifesting on the three, and him being a not-so-great husband to Squirrel. They should have split up, but the Erin's don't understand divorce is a thing ig, it would have been a) much better for them both mentally, and b) it would have provided a new narrative for the story (even if it was a b plot.) Both Squirrel and Bramble (and subsequently Leaf as well but she's a different story I'm not going to get in to rn) are in the wrong. They both did things they shouldn't, I wish people would stop assuming Bramble is just an abuser because he can be (honestly I don't think he even qualifies as an abuser, not even mentally. He and Squirrel fall into the same category of not being able to properly express their emotions without getting angry. Take a look at some of the things Squirrel says to Bramble during TNP and vice versa. These two, in my own opinion, should never have become mates, they fit more as siblings.) And they need to stop calling Squirrelflight petty and childish. These two went through hell as children, Bramble via Tigerstar and that drama (along with likely having PTSD from TNP) and Squirrel dealing with the TNP stuff (again PTSD likely) and then having the burden of others comparing her to Firestar. They both have issues. No one is innocent in this situation, and I just wish people would realize that.

Yes, Bramble absolutely was mad at Squirrel not the 3, and he took his anger out on the three because he is terrible with emotions (and a terrible dad). 

I think that Bramble had every right to be mad at Squirrel for not telling him, he was lied to about his own children, by his mate. That being said, I 100% understand why Squirrel didn’t tell him, Bramble has shown no reason for why Squirrel should trust him, and he has shown to be an easily angered cat who will greatly punish Squirrel for the smallest offences. Squirrel had no reason to believe that Bramble would help her and Leaf if he knew, and since Bramble is in a place of power, telling him could endanger Leaf and Squirrel. Also! Squirrel didn’t even want to take the kits because she didn’t want to lie to Bramble, but Starclan literally told/tricked her into doing it. That doesn’t change that Bramble is allowed to be mad, and hurt by what happened, I really think they should have just stayed divorced after this. 

This is like the one time I can understand, and validate Bramble’s anger toward Squirrel for something, every singe other time they fight he is in the wrong. I hate him sm.

I also want to say that even though its understandable for Bramble to be mad at Squirrel, his actions as a result of his anger are in no way okay. He is terrible to his children, and he is terrible to Squirrel. Even if he is mad at her, he has no right to make her life hell, he is deputy (aka. her boss) and he is shown to use his power to take his anger out on Squirrel many many times. 

I also want to point out that it literally took Bramble wanting to help Shadowclan out of love for Tawnypelt to realize that Squirrelflight did what she did because she loves her sister.... Like BRO why did you think she did it??? out of just feeling like fucking with you??? He’s so stupid, and is so bad at empathy. 

Anywho I do really think that Bramblestar shows some serious signs of being an abuser, and to anyone who wants a good explanation for why a lot of ppl think this watch Moonkitti’s vid Bramblestar is Worse! It gives a really good summary of the Bramble is an abuser argument.

[everybody-loves-purdy]

Even besides the age gap thing tigerdove is pretty awful. People just compare it favourably to bramblesquilf cause they arent constantly ripping each others throats out. He really only cares about her because she gave up her clan to be with him, but he is very blatantly characterized as not being willing to do the same. He cares more about his clan than her until she becomes a part of it and she only doesn't fight with him when they disagree because she's so self-sacrificial he has to redirect his anger at everyone else instead (i.e. when she banished herself). His affection for her and his family is highly conditional but also he weilds it like a weapon against even his own clan. He's not an i love my wife guy where its his one redeeming quality, he's a karen who thinks his family is the special exception and plays open favourites.

(Also I honestly don't see him as morally grey, he only ever does the right thing by pure coincidence, stumbling ass backwards into it for completely unrelated, selfish, often hateful reasons.)

I completely agree, although I just call him morally grey because in his own way he does think he’s trying to do the right thing and hasn’t done anything irredeemably horrendous yet. His intentions appear to be at least somewhat genuine to “help” RiverClan, despite the fact he literally threatened their lives unless they conformed. I personally feel he’s teetering on the edge but currently he’s still grey. He is potentially one bad day away from villainy though I feel. And he did help with the codebreaker situation, I’ll give him that. That whole providing shelter and a base for resistance thing is the main reason I don’t want to call him morally bad currently.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Dovewing stopped being exactly the way he wants (in ShadowClan raising his children and not significantly opposing things he does) then he would turn nasty.

The books are trying to make it clear his family favouritism is an in-universe problem that is causing significant issues in his clan but people just seem to ignore this aspect the books are trying to make clear and only connect it to him being a good father. For once the Erins actually seem to know a character better than a significant portion of the fandom does. Asc has repeatedly pointed out his faults and what kind of person he is but it’s just getting ignored.

As I’m doing my reread I currently feel like just making a list of this guys various crimes/morally questionable or bad actions.

[hadescabin]

tw// grooming i dont go there anymore but finding out how tigerheartstar fans are harassing ppl for pointing out how he groomed dovewing is so hilariously pathetic because it reminds me of how this one person vagued me in response to my tigerdove is grooming post and kept using the craziest possible ways to excuse it. "tigerheart was immature for his age because he grew up during a fucked up period of ShadowClan so its okay that he was dating dovepaw because they had the same maturity levels as each other!" this is going to sound crazy but an adult going after a young teenager is going to be inherently grooming no matter how "immature" the adult is. an immature adult is still going to hold more life experiences than a child and that'll put them in a significantly higher position of power every time no matter how you look at it. its the same vein of how groomers will use "you're mature for your age!" to excuse going after younger kids. due to this him mistreating dovewing isnt an example of "relationships having their ups and downs" but rather an adult preying on a teenager to pressure/manipulate them into doing what they want. (you cant even call this an oots thing, he still does that in their relationship. she has little to no autonomy outside of tigerheart since he pressured her into coming back to the clans LOL). "well the cat years to human years calculator dont show them as having as much of an age gap! (yes this really happened)" this is going to sound crazy but the cat to human years arent going to represent the cats on a 1:1 scale. we know how old these characters are based off of how theyre written and what the story presents them as. like how kits are typically meant to represent young children, apprentices are typically supposed to be teenagers going through middle/highschool. though i wouldnt entirely call this a strong source, kate cary had (or still has) a thing called blogclan and you can apply to be put on the allegiances. what rank you get is determined by what age/grade youre in and if i remember correctly apprentices are middle and highschool aged. i feel like this should be considered a bit of proof that the writers view apprentices as teenagers and write them as such. (its also important to note that apprentices are consistently written as being immature). tldr: fuck your cat year calculators apprentices are teenagers and warriors are adults. he went after her when she was newly apprenticed leaving her the equivalent of 13 years old AT BEST.

now does this mean i think people who like tigerheart support grooming? absolutely not. coming from someone who likes crowfeather (who is also a shitty person in canon) who you like doesnt determine your viewpoints. its the way you go about them does. acknowledge that theyre terrible people and get used to the fact that people will not like them because of it LOL.

[bonefall]

I NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT MARSHSCAR????

Sure! He's a supporting character in Ripplestar's Rot, and becomes leader of ShadowClan after the Great Pancakening at the Battle of the Gathering.

I wrote about him and every leader post-Ripplestar over here

Marshpaw was a little older than Ripplekit when he was brought to the Clan, just newly apprenticed. Their apprenticeships overlapped and they were teenage friends.

Marsh has always been a sort of quiet dude, he's never been a go-getter. More of a steady, practical guy.

He was friends with Spottedpelt and Gorseclaw too, him and Gorse were the more "level headed" people in the group.

His first name was Marshtail. "Scar" is an Honor Title.

Him and Ripplemoon were young warriors when they became mates. Marshtail could tell you that he liked his passion and drive, but, it would be a half truth. He can't really pick anything in particular that is his favorite trait

He could spend a day stuck in a tree hole with him and it would be enjoyable. He just likes his vibe, he likes to be with him.

There's not much to say about him before the ending of Ripplestar's Rot, because he's a mild guy. His ideal life would have been being a background character who goes on patrol a lot lmao

But at the death of Ripplestar and Spottedpelt, suddenly he was thrust into power he NEVER wanted, in the middle of mourning the loss of his mate and his extended family, and the end of a war he'd given everything to.

His heart broken, he had to clean up what Ripplestar left behind. The other three leaders blamed ShadowClan for everything, and the war had taken a chunk out of the population.

Especially in ShadowClan, with a ton of their warriors being slaughtered at the Gathering. Because of Gorseclaw, they'd seen the attack coming and prepared by only bringing their strongest warriors.

In fury, Dalestar of WindClan and Birchstar of RiverClan exiled many of the outed rebels within their ranks

So, Marshstar was dealing with the other Clans baying for a severe punishment of ShadowClan, adding a flood of new commandments to the code, and also a political refugee crisis

This was a mess. An exhausting, painful mess

It didn't get better, either. No matter what Marshstar did, someone was going to be furious. He couldn't appease the other Clans while maintaining ShadowClan, so, they started exacting revenge by attacking constantly.

(And, mind you, this was the age of Kit Stealing and pillaging. These attacks were high-stakes)

Eventually he stopped apologizing or even negotiating at all. ShadowClan became a sort of secluded, defensive nut that shared very little news, and even skipped Gatherings a few times.

But even that didn't please his warriors. They wanted the Gatherings. They wanted their own revenge. Even as the population recovered, Marshstar refused to do anything else.

The rest of his life felt like he was just biding time. 9 long lives without Ripplestar felt like a curse.

He did do one thing though-- when Houndfang was young, she was a goddamn punk. Little rebel without a cause, the Clan used to be frustrated that she was given such a ferocious name; she could have used a name to calm her down instead :/

She reminded Marshstar of a casual discussion about warrior names he had with Ripplestar, once. About how he liked names that simply made sense, and didn't need to be defended with prose. A Hound and its Fangs

He took a shining to Houndkit, in his melancholic way. She liked bothering him, he wouldn't snap at her or push her away. He would even sometimes enable her-- telling her little tricks for sneaking past the big warriors or giving her advice on how to persuade them to do what she wanted.

So the habit only got "worse." She had absolutely no fear of him as an apprentice and would just announce her opinion to his face.

thinking about it, Marshstar probably took her as an apprentice towards the end of her time as Houndpaw, after getting in too many fights with her mentor and the mentor trying to appeal for a delay of her assessment until she learned respect.

"Hm. No. I don't want her spirit broken. I think the other Clans deserve some hell, actually."

Houndfang didn't have ambition as a kid, she didn't know what she wanted. Marshstar gave her an outlet and it became electricity in her veins.

She quickly took over the Clan when she became deputy, and was more of a leader than he ever was. He just let her start running it.

I feel like he cast his name off, just before he died. He did not want to be Marshstar, he wanted to return to Marshscar, so he held a renaming ceremony for himself and passed on leadership officially.

ShadowClan was reignited in a way it hadn't been in years when Houndstar took power. In the passionate cheering of the crowd, Marshscar slipped away.

No one ever saw him again after that. He was probably sick and went somewhere he could pass away in solitude. Cat behavior

His heart remained with Ripplestar for the entirety of his long life, and for him, it was a relief when it was finally over.

When he got to StarClan, they tried to put him on trial. He got frustrated shortly into it. Ripplestar and Spottedpelt are not here so Literally Why Should I Care?

And they're going to throw this big bombastic ballyhoo, why? To posture? For who? This is pointless and quite frankly embarassing.

He actually interrupted the court proceedings with an Excuse Me. I Don't Want This.

"Thank you for your time. This has been a waste of mine."

It's kind of funny to think that if Houndstar knew about what her mentor did here she would flip her shit at him lmao.

Honestly, he does not mind being in Hell. Like, at all. He'll follow Ripplestar wherever, but in Skypelt I can imagine him making occasional statements about missing the taste of bloodsap or something.