#its feels heteronormative

[orionsangel86]

You know sometimes when fandoms twinkify the twink? Like they make him even twinkier than he already is so that suddenly he is portrayed as really small and fragile with delicate bones and feminine features?

You know sometimes when fandom will take the character they ship the twink with, and they make him taller, and broader, and hairier, and suddenly he's this beast of a macho man who completely dominates and overpowers the twink?

Then you see a picture of the two characters in canon and they are basically nothing like that?

Yeah. That's annoying.

[galactic-rhea]

I haven't read The Queen's trilogy yet, so most of my knowledge of Sabé comes from Wookiepedia and fanfics, and I know the fandom consensus is that she and Anakin can't stand each other for Obvious Reasons, or at the very least in a "I hate my best friend's boyfriend" way, but as someone that always found the last trope kind of annoying and boring, I actually think they would bond very well while waiting at the ER.

Like they will just sit there trying to be normal while Padme gets checked by the doctors, like they are just quiet angrily looking at the wall as someone that was bitten by a radioactive tooka passes first and as a whole man-size tank of water for a mon calamari gets pushed, and then Anakin just off-handely passes Sabé a nutritive bar thing, and Sabé just passes Anakin a bottle of water because they will be hours there, then he brings caff, and then she brings him one of these books with puzzles and find space -waldo because she knows that guy absolutely has ADHD, like that's camaderie buddy.

"I told her to not try that"

"I also told her to not try that"

And they just nod because of course they did. And that's it, they bonded over bitching about "She never listens to me but I kinda into that tbh, but also it's bad for my blood pressure".

They probably would enjoy to share a space beer and talk about the most strange and random yet normal thing ever like "did you know the Crafuxeratus billis is so acid it can effectively melt away wood and enough of it some metals, so its stomach tissue has been used in armor wear" And then never share a word again for like a year.

[rinbylin]

friendships as marital ties (and other notes on relational ties) in mlc

this is sort of a third installment in the series of meta on 'mlc as an exemplar of constructing queer narratives out of chinese ideological frameworks' (1. jianghu as queer space and 2. how it manifests in li xiangyi) - focusing on the nature of relationships in it. (which I've briefly mentioned in the first one and finally actually getting to it!!)

-

I would like to first call attention to chinese ideological frameworks as a premise of queer reading in mlc. the goal of chinese philosophy is to explore the becoming of human, taking two broad paths of the (mainstream) secular vs. escaping the secular. (these two paths are not a strict dichotomy, and rather, are ever in flux and in conversation with each other.) as said by @markiafc too, chineseness is so much about the rigidity of structures, and in equal part, a desire to break out of them. thus, chinese ideological frameworks can very much offer a rich reading of queerness - that mlc, a story very deliberately structured based on chinese ideologies (more accurately, with good reasons for me to believe that it is as such), has managed to materialise.

if the conceptualisation of queerness is premised on a defiance against mainstream norms, then a reliable way to read queerness in chinese ideological frameworks can be to deconstruct it by the mainstream confucian frameworks.

in mlc, this is implicitly set up with its stage of wulin/martial jianghu. then it is further broken down by asking, hey wulin jianghu is still closely related to the hegemonic values and the mainstream structure of authority (historically, 侠 xia being politically involved says a lot about this), so what is the true meaning of jianghu? what does it then really take for jianghu to be a queer space offering comfort and freedom to those who have escaped to it - to be the space that allow the transcendence of rigid roles and labels? mlc took a step further to resist the proxy to mainstream values that wulin jianghu has become.

this is why there can be a very strong buddhism reading of mlc (suggested here, expounded in the A+++ meta by @markiafc here and here, and also what I've seen discussed by cnet as well), given that buddhism is one of the 'extra-secular' ideologies, alongside (philosophical) taoism. I've also touched on a taoist angle in this meta. both schools are articulated in different sets of languages, but ultimately convey a same ideal of what it means to be human and how to live well - that is, to resist the roles and labels defined by the norms.

so, back to confucian frameworks.

a lot can be discussed about mlc with it. but in the context of this meta about relationships in mlc, it's specifically drawing on how confucianism conceptualises social relationships with familial ties as a cornerstone, and how these relational ties are inextricable from the conceptualisation of the 'self'.

as such, one of the things about mlc that has fascinated me is how deliberately it seems to ignore and reject the conventional familial ties (the kind by blood and marital ties). I've joked about how it is a miracle for me to love mlc as much as I do, as a prime dysfunctional family story enjoyer, despite none of its main characters struggling with any complicated feelings about their (biological) parents. but on closer examination, mlc is also making a comment on the model of familial-based relationships that dominates mainstream society - but through the absence of it.

with this, I want to talk about 1) how mlc rejects the conventional ties; and then 2) how it repurposes these ties in its own ways.

-

the five relational ties in confucianism:

father and son 父子有亲 - (natural) affection between father and son

ruler and subject 君臣有义 - righteous relationship between ruler and subject

older and younger brothers 兄弟 (长幼有序) - this is actually about seniority within the family; the order between older vs younger family members

husband and wife 夫妇有别 - differentiation between husband and wife (demarcated by the 内外 spectrum of gendered inner-external spheres)

friends 朋友有信 - trust between friends

logically inferred, all these ties are hierarchical and familial-based except for the last one: friends. ruler-subject is sort of an extension of the natural familial ties, while friendship is the inverse space of 1-4 (ie. you fall back on 5 to define a social relationship outside of the familial sphere that cannot be qualified as 1-4). while all are premised on mutuality, it is only no. 5 that is defined by a sense of choice and equality.

on the surface, 1-4 don't quite exist in mlc in particularly meaningful ways to the narrative or are even outright overlooked, and friendship is the relational tie most valued by mlc. we can tell it's true just by looking at the most meaningful relationships in mlc of difanghua. but at the same time, it is more nuanced. we can take a closer look at how the story plays around with most of the ties as part of a broader queer narrative.

-

1) how mlc rejects the conventional ties

mlc's rejection of mainstream relational ties can be best seen in fdb escaping from marriage. and it was not just any engagement with anybody but an engagement with the imperial family. he struggles with the prospect of being married to princess zhaoling, but generally, it's about the idea of complying to mainstream conventions and expectations that includes compulsory heterosexuality. all these point not only to a defiance against amatonormativity - the resistance of the traditional husband-wife tie, but also an irreverence for the ties of ruler-subject (the engagement being an imperial decree) and father-son (matters of marriage being sole decisions made by parents).

of course this is on top of how fdb's own biological father is a p-o-s, and the narrative gives fdb minimal struggles in this aspect, allowing him to sever this tie without looking back (I love it, yeap). along the same line is how lxy is an orphan, who came to gain important relationships that are built on natural compassion among people rather than innate, blood-based ties - even as llh. the sense of defiance from the narrative is especially stark to me considering that he could have a completely different familial-based life - as a son, brother, and ruler, if his biological family was still around. the narrative also deliberately treats his biological brother as a phantom, replaced with an older brother who he was bonded with neither by blood nor marital ties. on dfs's front, absolutely nothing is to be known about his biological family. his childhood history with the toxic patriarch of his life - who is not even his biological father - was afforded a clean break and closure.

we can keep going on, but that's pretty much the point.

ritualisation is one of the most important things of the confucianism school, especially to the honoring of these social relationships (and the officiating of social roles). the one ceremony/ritual we saw in mlc involving the main characters - or more accurately speaking, came closest to seeing - was the imminent wedding ceremony of dfs and jlq. even in that case, it was premised on non-mutuality with dfs being the unwilling, passive party. (fem-coded dfs? 25 marks.)

and that brings us to the next part.

-

2) how mlc repurposes these ties

that particular wedding ceremony gets hijacked by dfs and lxy/llh, and gets turned into an important milestone in their relationship. they consummate - what is on text - their friendship after a long time being more enemies and rivals than friends. it is a clear establishment of the trust they have for each other. and here it is where I circle back to the subject of this post: friendships as marital ties.

in this article, as a part of a feminist, egalitarian reframing of confucianism, there is a proposal for spousal relationships to be reframed as a friendship tie. (this aligns with the interrelatedness of the five ties eg. the ruler-subject mirrors father-son dynamic, with the confucian belief that rulers have an obligation to their subjects alike parents to their own children.) by doing so, it removes the functional, gendered differentiation assigned to marital ties, and shifts it to something equal, and independent of gender. you exalt the value of trust between spouses, instead of basing marital relationships on gendered roles. as such, spouses become more like friends, and conversely, friends can also become more like spouses. (romance not a prerequisite. it has never been about romance anyway.)

given that mlc has repeatedly applied marital motifs to llh and dfs's characters in their joint narratives, this opens up a reading friendships as a marital tie. seeing marriage as a bridge for strangers to become family, marriage in mlc becomes a metaphor for the chosen commitment and mutual trust put in by strangers/friends (non-familial ties) into the becoming of family. the blurring of lines between marital ties and friendship encourages a genuine space of queer experience that goes beyond any pressure for strict labels - of sexuality, and relationships as romantic, sexual, etc etc.

(note: despite the borrowing of a feminist concept, I strongly hesitate to call mlc a feminist story. it's a whole discussion - or debate - on its own. nevertheless, it is definitely a gender-conscious story that lays foundation for a strong queer and egalitarian reading.)

-

it is to be noted that it is intended - and also beneficial to take the confucian framework of relational ties beyond face value. the framework offers what it believed to be the most fundamental social relationship dynamics, and sees room for extension and matching to other kinds of relationships (all if not, most). a relationship such as teacher-student, which is outside of the five ties stated, can also mirror the affection of father-son ties, albeit not in a literal and identical way.

speaking of which. fdb and lxy/llh.

indeed they're known by others to be good friends. fdb thinks they're good friends too - insists on it, and puts his best efforts in keeping it that way. but does it really go both ways? if it does not, then can it really still be friendship? my humble take is that, ultimately - weighing in with llh's perspective - this is a relationship that is not so much based on trust, and rather, based on an innate affection that is only unique to family. (in this case, not blood/marital-based but one that was chosen and built aka lxy's relationship with sgd.) in other words, less of a friendship, more of a familial one.

it is a lot clearer considering their relationship from llh's point of view: some brat you never wanted in your life came barging in, and whether he was going to bring any positive effect to your life was secondary to the tranquility - which you have carved for yourself in the past decade - that is so integral to your personhood. no way. but the moment you hear that he's family? well, that changes the game completely. even before learning about fdb being sgd's son (then beginning to take initiative in showing greater acceptance), it is apparent in llh that there was an instinctive resonance with fdb as his shixiong's nephew. (eg. he remarked to his shifu's grave about how alike fdb is to himself.) this is unlike with dfs whom he had taken a much longer time to build trust with. you do not apply trust - aka the quality of friendships - to family. family is something deeper, more instinctive than that. if fdb was never family, I find it hard to imagine given llh's personality, that he would have let some brazen, bratty stranger intrude for that long. (boy invited himself to llh's home, sat himself down eating the owner's dinner and nosing in his cooking abilities!!! ily bb but that was uncalled for 😭)

of course there are many more layers in their relationship. there is a substantial degree of their history as (unwitting) teacher-disciple: fdb is still healthy and alive all thanks to the existence of lxy as a spiritual teacher role model in his life, regardless it being one-sided or not. there is also indeed some part of friendship in it, especially from fdb's point of view. he sees llh as a kindred spirit who he could enjoy a life of freedom with for life. but llh never reciprocates. he knew this was short-lived. and so ultimately, the hierarchical layer of their relationship overpowers the equal one, where llh's treatment of fdb as a nephew/小辈 younger family member and a disciple is the one that sealed the fate of their relationship.

if (blood-based) familial ties are irrelevant in jianghu, then the closest proxy to a father-son relationship in the martial world would be a teacher-disciple relationship. lxy and his shifu are a clear, indisputable example. for fdb and llh, their teacher-disciple tie is murkier and not consistently applied. they were also never ritualised as teacher-disciple, and thus are not teacher-disciple in any official capacity as far as confucian ideas are concerned. yet in crucial moments, it is invoked by llh as a card of authority over fdb to get out of sticky situations with fdb. and there was their final scene together: in a moment of sincerity, llh gives the approval to fdb as his disciple - then entrusting fdb with the secret manual of his techniques, up until his final letter in which fdb was recommended to dfs as a successor to his martial abilities.

in an imperial setting, this would have been the relationship of an emperor and his crown prince that straddles both ruler-subject and father-son ties aka a tag-team of disaster. the teacher has an obligation to nurture his disciple as a successor to himself, and love him like a son too. on the flipside, he holds the final power in their relationship - withholding knowledge and feelings from the younger one. they are only equals in a way a parent-child can be. they are only equals as much as the parent allows. and this is how fdb got left behind in the dust of llh's departure. he was the child treating his parent like a friend, supporting him emotionally and begging to be loved back the same way he loves his parent - but the parent had a lifetime way ahead of him and stayed out of his reach, physically and emotionally.

llh and fdb operate with the trapping of a friendship but have always been family in the core. llh had known that way before fdb did, just like everything else he had known and put out of fdb's reach. because. fdb did not have to know. fdb is different and will forge his own path. and that's a kind of love llh has for him that nobody understands (in fact not even fdb himself) - one that is on a different plane from friendships.

by repurposing the framework of relational ties, mlc showed that the essence of familial relationships aka its intimacy and closeness can be independent from biology and formalised rituals. and it is important to myself for stories to say that people can build close ties and deeply meaningful relationships even without being born or ritualised into any.

-

then back to how these relational ties are inextricable from the conceptualisation of the 'self' in confucian worldview: the roles you play in these relationships are intended to define you. there is no 'self' independent from it. while the concept of a social, relational self is fully rooted in reality, being locked into social roles can be a painful way to live - a way that llh has experienced as lxy the sigu sect leader. so, in order for lxy/llh to realise a sense of self that exists outside the norms, it inevitably points to another way that requires a cut from these relationships. that is then the buddhist (or taoist) answer of looking past attachments to the world such as the confucian idea of relationships defining your being. only with a dissolution of a sense of 'self', can there be true liberation.

[quietwingsinthesky]

see my brain just doesn’t register the idea of anyone having a ‘one true love’ which is why the common fandom tropes of making canonical love interests terrible in order to justify why your ship is better always bugs the shit out of me. it feels like the only reason you would do that is if the idea of the characters in your ship having any other sort of romantic relationship that was important to them, even in the past, is a threat to their current one, therefore all their past relationships need to be demonized in order to make them ‘not real love’ so that they remain pure and chaste and ready for the True Love of the endgame ship.

[aliusfrater]

the thing about supernatural is that it's patriarchy porn

[cosettegf]

i love the penumbra podcast and i love second citadel and i really enjoyed listening to the finale but i feel. weird about the way this show treats its female characters???

[warden-melli]

I kind of wonder if we’ll see a character that references Irida’s design in Legends Z-A? It’s a bit of a reach, but here me out

Perrin with her connection to the Diamond clan appeared in scarvi, a game with a time theme

Purely speculation on my part but could it be possible Z-A could be similarly tied to the concept of space, being set in a single location, and also with whatever “urban redevelopment” ends up being? I mean, redevelopment implies the alteration of an already established location/space in some way?

If so then it would make sense for a character that references Irida’s design to appear in a game like that considering the Pearl clan, and their connection Palkia/the concept of space

[nerdyqueerr]

sometimes i think a little bit about how the Wyrm's ultimate Evil Ploy on Elora was to grant her heterosexual marriage and then not only does she turn that down but she and two lesbian knights defeat the evil AND THEN the Power Of Love comes in to save the heterosexual marriage guy but its literally just the power of his sister saying hey come back i miss you. and, dear readers, i find myself going insane a little

[aggressionbread]

the problem with competitive gaming spaces is i want to be treated like a person, not a woman, and unfortunately there is a distinction that i've been made to feel

[xylophone888]

(this is a repost because i think i accidentally deleted the original post :/)

fun (actually quite sad and not fun whatsoever) fact: when rincewind described what he thought was a crush on conina to himself he only listed physical "symptoms" such as fast heartbeat, feeling too hot to a "molten iron" extent and sweaty palms; he never brought up or even tried to bring up psychological stuff like being drawn to the person you have a crush on or finding some of their features or interests attractive or even something like wanting to get to know them better

he only found physical symptoms that could correspond to many different things other than infatuation and i personally think he just said to himself "well she's a woman and im a man and men are attracted to women right? therefore all this i feel must mean that im attracted to her, can't imagine anything else" but actually if you look at the aforementioned symptoms a little closer....i honestly am of the opinion he was just constantly stressed and anxious and scared on such a deep level already that he couldn't understand why was he feeling all that so he went for the only explanation available; he got so used to fear and anxiety he stopped noticing it and when it expectedly produced bad physical symptoms he already stopped even thinking about the fact that he's afraid and anxious because it became the default state of being to him; he forgot that feeling the way he feels all the time isn't normal

[fujosh33p]

I detest how seemingly everyone describes their ideal top as tall, strong, muscular, and has a dick, and describes bottoms as small, weak, and effeminate. I thought you guys were gay.

[andthetapeworms]

somebody spewing bullshit aroacephobia and they felt the need to tag me in it for some reason so now that shit is gonna show up when ppl search my name imm gonna KMS!!

[possumteeths]

ok we all know like diehard astarion girlies are exhausting and plentiful but like one fandom opinion that literally makes me block ppl is saying that he’s like secretly really hurt or offended by the prospect of poly or shared partners or casual sex like …… k

[ukyou-kuonji]

Short rant-

I love reading fics about romance but I mainly pick them due to the presence of my favorite characters. Characterization is the most important to me, and while I don't need it to be accurate to the canon (the fan culture has brought some aspects I enjoy) it needs to be roughly believable with the canon. While I enjoy Ukyo/Ryoga the most, aside from the reasons I think they'd make a good pair, this is primarily because the two of them are my two faves. Hence why I enjoy the odd Ranma/Akane fic (tho I dont seek it out) or Ukyo/Ranma. Plenty of Ukyo centric fics, Ryoga centric fics, Pantyhose Taro centric fics, the odd Konatsu centric fic.

Anyway this is my way of saying I'm finally getting into Ranma/Ryoga. I've always loved both of them, and they have so much potential, but the way most of the authors write them put me too far off the ship for years. However, I'm finally finding some good fucking fics, and I'm really enjoying them

[thecomet-and-themeteor]

The more I think about Lance being transgender the funnier it gets. The entirety of Shape of My Heart is a miscommunication. Frankie thinks Lance wouldn't like May because they're an enby and Lance is apologizing because he thinks Frankie was hiding May being non-noblety/royalty because he made it seem like something Frankie should be ashamed of and he wouldn't approve of until he gave him the speech about fighting for Angelique.

[ennaih]

Every Film I Watch In 2023:

279. Our Son (2023)