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nyerusnova · 1 year ago

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Glad to see that Tim being a giant Dick Grayson fanboy is finally being highlighted again, and sparking more discussion especially on their early relationship! (Please gimme more!!! I love them so much, augh!)

Probably as a result of that surge, there seems to be reciprocal chatter on the topic of how young Tim actually felt towards Jason, too. It's honestly pretty interesting, because it's more nuanced than it appears at first glance.

Which means it's very fun to dissect! ✨

There's a degree of subjectivity to keep in mind, because readers are going to have different interpretations of the same scenes, or will pull from entirely different scenes than one another to form their individual view on this topic. That's just how it is in comic book fandom, for many things! Regardless, in this case... if the scale ranges from the extreme of "Jason was Tim's Robin" to the other extreme of "Tim actually hated Jason [as Robin] or thought he was a loser that got himself killed" — the actual truth is closer to the middle, as is often the case.

At least, in my opinion.

Mainly I want to focus on those relatively early days with this post, to highlight Tim's initial(-ish) feelings towards his heroes, and touch on the point at which they really begin to change. This turned into a very long post, though. Brevity is beyond my skill, so grab snacks and water lol. Transcripts for each image will be posted at the very end under the cut.

So, the two storylines I want to cover are "Rite of Passage," which is rolls into "Identity Crisis." (NOT to be confused with the major crossover event "Identity Crisis™" which came years later, and is where Jack Drake dies.... But it sure is an interesting coincidence that Tim deals with the loss of each parent in two similarly named stories!) These take place before Tim is even Robin, and I'll be considering them as one arc for this post.

Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 (July, 1990) -- Pages 1 & 2

"When Gotham needed him, he was there. When the Batman needed him, he was there. He was a hero."

"One day, I'll be as good as Jason. One day I'll wear the suit."

To start off, we have this opening from "Rite of Passage." Tim is still in training here, mainly helping Bruce with minor stuff from the cave. His parents are off traveling, alive and well as of these next few pages. He's still bright-eyed and full of wonder. An extraordinarily weird but ultimately innocent kid.

So his view on Jason is positive and fairly simple: a hero, and someone to look up to as Robin. Clearly, Tim here doesn't think Jason was deficient in his role, either as a protector of Gotham or as Batman's trusted partner.

Moreover, Tim already held Dick in very high regard because he was amazingly skilled before he became Robin. To Tim, that's not something he'll ever be able to achieve. Meanwhile, Jason wasn't like that. He was a regular kid without crazy acrobatic training since practically birth. Yet he still went on to be a hero—which is obviously motivational for Tim who finds himself in similar shoes.

It's true that Tim only ever knew or thought of Jason as Robin, and idolized him in that regard. But that's kind of all that mattered to him at that point, because he was this kid who was utterly star-struck by his heroes. Even if he's technically aware of their shortcomings as people, it's overshadowed by the hero-worship.

It was kind of the same with Bruce as Batman at first. (Which was still enough for Tim to risk life and limb to help his beloved hero, before Bruce even knew his name.) Dick was the only one Tim had any sort of "personal" relationship with beforehand, so there is an extra level of attachment—and hence why it was the nidus for his obsession with Batman. Yet even then, it wasn't like he actually knew anything about Dick as a person until later. Until then, Tim's ideas of him were all he had, too. With Jason, Tim just didn't get to know him at any point before his return (oof), apart from what he heard over the years secondhand (also oof).

Ultimately, it's the loss of innocence—along with the ricocheting bullet that is the unresolved guilt of those around him—that begins to change Tim's perception. Not just of Jason, but of things in general.

Batman vol. 1 #455 (Oct., 1990) -- Page 13

"I know why they do it now. Why they put on the suits, and the masks, and go out into the night. They're angry, they're full of rage. They want to hit back."

Losing his mother was a major shift for Tim, obviously. This is right after the previous storyline, and Tim's had the worst week or two of his life (so far). His monologue here is a reference to what happened to both Dick and Jason. The unbearable pain of loss, the rage masking the grief underneath. And importantly, that he feels both of them were justified in their anger. (And Bruce too, indirectly.)

The major theme of the aptly named "Identity Crisis" is to mirror aspects of Dick and Jason and Tim's lives—to show how they converged onto the same tragic road. It's something that Tim notices early in the story, and was frightened by. Now, horrifically, it's become a part of him as well. His parents are gone, and he was entirely helpless to do anything about it. Dick was the same way, Jason was the same way. The cycle is repeated.

In particular, the part about him wanting to go to Haiti for revenge—for his mother—sort of struck me as being an intentional parallel to Jason and Ethiopia. It's a bit of a stretch, especially in isolation, so others may see it differently (e.g. the angry ramblings of a grieving child that does sound like something anyone might say). But it always stuck out to me because of how much Tim is compared directly to Jason in this arc. More on that below.

It's not something I can really give an accurate feel of because it's a lot of subtle things that begin to add up, so I'd encourage folks to read this arc themselves to see what I mean. (Or maybe you'll still disagree which is fine too lol.) Again, many things are in reference to both Dick and Jason in relation to Tim, but it's weighted more on Jason's side.

Batman vol. 1 #455 (Oct., 1990) -- Page 18

"You think my anger will boil over, the way Jason's did. I can assure you, it won't!"

Tim's grief has begun to pull away the veil of idealism that enshrouded his heroes in his mind. It doesn't apply only to Jason, but to the rest of them. Plus add the fact that Tim's keenly aware that he's being managed, even if the adults around him are careful to not outright say certain things. He still knows.

Bruce, Dick, and Alfred are all worried about Tim potentially turning into "another Jason." They (and mainly Bruce) caution Tim to not ignore his emotions, but they're still concerned that he may be overly eager to prove himself in order to cope, and could get hurt or killed as a result. While they aren't wrong for their caution—especially at how unsettlingly similar all the circumstances are—they aren't very subtle about the elephant in the room.

Imagine how that would affect Tim's perception of his predecessor, especially when he's in the midst of a traumatic event he hasn't had time to fully process. The negative association is pretty much inevitable.

Tim's known from day one that he's walking in Jason's shadow, and now it's become inescapable. Tim went from seeing Jason as a goal to reach, to feeling that unless he surpasses him, he wasn't going to be taken seriously by anyone. However, as of this arc, Tim doesn't even fully come to that point yet.

Batman vol. 1 #456 (Nov., 1990) -- Pages 14 & 15

"Drop-outs don't make it. And dead heroes are no use to anyone!"

It's really easy to take away "Tim totally thought Jason got himself killed" as the main thing here, but I think that's missing the forest for the trees.

First some context: Bruce has gone out on a mission to get Scarecrow, and expressly forbade Tim from doing any shenanigans. Meanwhile, Tim is grappling with wanting to prove himself and trying to help Bruce from the cave, all while trying to deal with his emotions. At some point, he falls asleep and ends up having like... exhaustion-grief hallucinations of Dick!Robin and Jason!Robin who confusingly caution yet encourage him. The main theme of this part is facing your fears.

Depending on how you want to interpret the intent of Jason's dialogue here, you could go several ways with it. Ranging from "writer's feelings towards Jason" to "a peek into Tim's mind as his fears manifest as visions of his heroes" or some mixture thereof.

Though Tim argues with Bruce that Batman needs a Robin, we're shown that Tim is understandably scared of joining Batman's "war." He's still not willing to let Bruce go it alone, though, and that's something he feels more strongly than his fear.

Meanwhile, hallucination!Jason's warnings are a lamentation of what happened to him in a way, but it actually exactly describes Tim's current situation even more so. Unlike Jason, Tim is under-trained, under-experienced, doesn't even have a suit of his own yet. But like Jason, he can't sit by and do nothing while someone he cares about is in danger. Tim knows that if he goes out there, he will probably get himself killed, and it will be his own fault. So he's about to disobey Batman's orders, and fly right into danger. If that got Jason killed, then Tim—who is in a way worse position experience-wise—has every chance of ending up the same.

Like... it's about Jason, but it's also about Tim. It's Tim's worst fears made manifest, via the representation of why he is even here in the first place (Jason's death).

That's my theory anyway, but perhaps this is an overly charitable reading of this scene on my end. (Not that I think that makes me wrong lol.) However given that Grant wrote both parts of this arc, and the beginning of which is especially favorable towards Jason, it certainly is something to ponder. I have a lot of thoughts on it I can't expand on here tbh but perhaps that'll be another post.

Anyway, returning to the point of the similarities vs differences between Tim and Jason: since this is the arc that solidified Tim as the next Robin in comic continuity, it makes sense that the writers really pushed the comparisons between the two of them, specifically. (Even though Dick was pretty similar, as going against Batman's orders is the Robin thing to do, it's not his shoes Tim is directly filling.) So making Tim's "debut" story arc mirror Jason's "swansong" is an obvious narrative choice.

To drive home the parallels, I wanted to include this panel from just a few pages prior to the "daydream":

Batman vol. 1 #456 (Nov., 1990) -- Page 9

"The suit is magic."

That so distressingly close to Jason's famous "being Robin gives me magic" line (Batman #385, page 6). Given all the previous context, it's hard for me to just dismiss it as pure coincidence. Even if it is, the point still stands. Tim is shown having the some of the same heartbreakingly naive views as Jason once did, right in front of Jason's memorial, just as he's about to go and run off into the night against orders.

I think that speaks for itself. There's a lot to take away from it, if you so choose. Especially given the context of that specific Jason arc.

Alright, back to the main course:

So in the end, Tim actually goes out in civvies and a ski mask because if he fails, then at least he wouldn't bring shame to Robin's legacy™. When he gets fear gassed saving Batman, it's once again both Dick and Jason that he hallucinates encouraging him to push past his fear. (Shout out to the fact that he's literally more afraid of tarnishing the legacy of Batman & Robin than he is of dying.... I'm sure this will not be a recurring thing for him in the future.)

Tim's ideology is shown to be similar to Jason's, and the actions Tim ultimately takes are similar to Jason's... but the outcome is different. And it really isn't just "Tim succeeded where Jason failed." At least, that's not what I took away from this. Rather, Tim had no reason to succeed any more than he had to fail, just that he did. Luck combined with caution because he knew what happened to his predecessor, and the fact that Batman was there to finish the job all made the difference.

You could say (and I know some will) that it's just classic Jason character assassination and the writers trying to implore readers that this new kid is different we promise pls don't hate us look how much better he is! But in this case, that feels like it undermines the whole point of this story. It doesn't fit with what the characters actually say.

Thus, we return to the question of how Tim felt towards his predecessor. And the answer is different from where we started, because Tim is different. Not that different though. Because even though at this point Tim—like all the adults around him—has probably attributed Jason "going off on his own" being what led to his death, Tim still thought of him as a hero to look up to. It's about Robin, first and foremost, yes. But Tim is fully aware of the people who made that suit mean what it does, because it's all intertwined.

Batman vol. 1 #457 (Dec., 1990) -- Page 20

"I mean--Dick made it into a symbol the whole world knows. Jason gave his life for it."

Even further, Tim thinks of it in terms of Jason having given his life for what he believed in, for the legacy that now falls to Tim. There's a sense of gravitas there. He's afraid of failing both the Robins who came before him.

Ultimately do I think Tim adored and loved Jason on the same level as Dick or something? No. It's not comparable. (Dick was like part of some of Tim's earliest memories and everything! They have a really unique bond ok.) Yet Tim was also far from thinking poorly of Jason so early on. Frankly, it seems that Tim thought of Jason as a noble hero and a cautionary tale. Yes he took risks and sometimes went too far, generally stuff that Tim doesn't want to repeat and all that. At the same time, Tim still saw him as someone whose legacy and memory was worth honoring.

It's complicated, which is why I like it so much—because it feels real. Having conflicting feelings towards someone is... so human. Especially someone you never got to know, yet who plays such an integral role in your life via the shadow of their death. How can you feel anything but complicated towards them?

It has to be said that, yes, Tim's views—even before Jason's return—change over the years. He becomes more jaded as a person and is surrounded by people who are even more jaded than him... and who often mention Jason as the "failed Robin." It's something that's hung over Tim's head all the damn time. The curse of the Robin mantle.

So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Tim's idea of him becomes more akin to "sounds like a skill issue" as the years go by. All bets are off after Jason's return, and the Titans Tower Incident™. At that point it's firmly "I am better than you, loser" lmao.

And... that's all without getting too into things like authorial intent and general "moods" of different DC writers towards Jason at a given point. Or retcons that played a role in his characterization and how other characters talk about him, depending on what "era" you're reading. That's way beyond the scope of this post though!

TLDR; even though young Tim Drake was obsessed with Dick Grayson as Robin, he still looked up to Jason Todd as well. He didn't think of Jason as a cringefail loser until later. :)

(image dialogue transcripts under cut ↓)

Dialogue Transcript for Image 1 (Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 -- Page 1):

Narration box (Tim): When Gotham needed him, he was there. When the Batman needed him, he was there. He was a hero.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 2 (Detective Comics vol. 1 #618 -- Page 2):

(Scene continued from previous page)

Narration box: But he was nothing special, really. Just a boy, who was taught--trained--brought to his full potential by someone who knew how. Just a boy... like me. I know I can do it. I know I can. One day I'll be as good as Jason. One day I'll wear the suit. One day I'll be a hero.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 3 (Batman vol. 1 #455 -- Page 13):

Tim: I hate him! I hate him! I know why they do it now. Why they put on the suits, and the masks, and go out into the night. They're angry. Full of rage. They want to hit back. They want to fill the hole that's burning inside them.

Bruce: There's more to it than that, son. Much more.

Tim: I know. It's just--I feel--like going to Haiti myself and strangling that creep with my bare hands!

Bruce: The Obeah Man will spend the rest of his life in a prison hospital. He's history. Forget him! But don't fight against your anger. It's natural. Accept it. Live with it. One day it'll be your friend.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 4 (Batman vol. 1 #455 -- Panels from page 18):

Tim: Because you think my mother's death has upset me too much. Well, it did. But I've taken your words to heart. I can cope. You think my anger will boil over, the way Jason's did. I can assure you, it won't. But that doesn't make any difference, does it? Why can't you have a little faith in me?

Dialogue Transcript for Image 5 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Page 14):

Narration box (Tim): Blast it! My head's starting to swim. I'm about ready to give up. I almost wish I'd never heard of Batman and Robin!

Vision Dick: Heroes never give up, Tim.

Vision Jason: You know that.

Tim: Dick--! Jason Todd!

Vision Dick: You're training to fight in a war, Tim. It'll last all your life. No matter what, you have to go on fighting.

Vision Jason: Drop-outs don't make it. And dead heroes are no use to anyone! I thought I knew better than Batman. I thought I could run before I could walk. I killed myself, Tim. Because I couldn't wait. Because I couldn't think it through.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 6 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Page 15):

(Scene continued from previous page)

Vision Dick: Think, Tim. Concentrate!

Vision Jason: You can do it.

Both: You can do it!

Tim, waking up: What--? Robin...?

Narration box (Tim): I must have been daydreaming. They're right, though. There's a solution to everything. I can find it! So here I go again... Whim. Caprice. Doing something without forethought.

Dialogue Transcript for Image 7 (Batman vol. 1 #456 -- Panel from page 9):

Narration box (Tim): The suit is magic. It gives you power. It hides your weakness. It makes you give it everything you've got. It makes you a hero. If only I could!

Dialogue Transcript for Image 8 (Batman vol. 1 #457 -- Page 20):

Bruce: Are you afraid of it?

Tim: No. It isn't fear. It's more... the suit carries so much history. I mean--Dick made it into a symbol the whole world knows. Jason gave his life for it. Failing them--what they fought so hard to build--that's what worries me!

Bruce: I appreciate that, Tim. That costume weighs a whole lot more than any symbol should... and I'd be failing you if I expected you to bear that weight. So... let me know what you think.

Narration box: A mask has a double edged, he said. It hides your own anxiety as it strikes fear into your enemy.

#tim drake #jason todd #dcu #dc comcis #batfamily #meta #I'm so sorry this post got out of hand fr #it was meant to be a quick drabble with some comic panels and instead i just...... kept going #this post is specifically for my one (1) bestie who cares and the like 2 ppl who might be as insane as me about Timmy #idk why I'm like this im just obsessed with Tim's relationship with early Batfam & co lately???#late 80 and early 90s comics my beloveds......#anyway if this gets more than 5 notes i'll be shocked and scared lol #nyerus.txt #text post #long post

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thecoolerliauditore · 2 months ago

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This is kinda hard to articulate, but i was thinking about scott and his teams throughout the seasons and team dynamics in general. and i just wanted to ask your thoughts on which players you think tend to 'take point' in their alliances over the seasons?

Also to preface this the last time i watched everybody’s series of the previous life seasons was like four months ago and this is all from memory, so like take it all with a grain of salt. Also also sorry for the block of text i won’t be hurt if you skim it lol

There are three main factors which I feel dictates whether a person assumes a leadership role or not: whether they naturally are inclined to act that way, who they’re teaming with, and how big the alliance is (partnership vs 3+).

If it’s a partnership, it’s more likely the role is more evenly spread out between the two people (although it seems like the opposite is true for some people). It’s also sort of hard to determine where somebody falls if they’ve been alone or missing for a season or two (ie Scar or Lizzie). I feel like there’s something to note about how differently winners of previous series tend to play in future seasons, which thereby kinda alters whether they lead the convo or not.

It does feel a bit arbitrary to try and isolate specific people who take up a leadership position because the vibe of the life series alliances are mostly a group of friends working together rather than an actual organized group, and members of the group tend to split up mid-episode, but I do feel like there are some people who noticeably conduits their alliances throughout the series. This does overlap a lot with cc territory since it has to do with where the natural dynamics of a group fall to.

Scott's alliances have mostly been partnerships, but even with that in mind, i've always felt like Scott tends to control the direction of where his typical group meetings flow. He likes to have control. In terms of partnerships, there really is big difference in whether he leads more if you look at Jimmy vs Cleo, or even with Martyn, at least from what I can remember. Martyn’s and Cleo’s partnerships are alike in a lot of ways, but I can’t help but also see them as distinctly different.

If I had to put my finger on it, it felt like Scott stuck a lot more with Cleo throughout the episodes compared to Martyn. If I had to put my finger on the partnership where Scott feels the most ‘equal’ to his partner, it would probably be Cleo. Martyn is somebody who I think Scott also respects, but I always felt there was a degree of… distance? Scott’s and Martyn’s are really both clever/witty and smart at surviving, and they both Know that, so I felt like they always let each other act mostly independently, even with Martyn being really protective over Scott. Either way, with those two, there’s definitely more of a distribution of leadership compared to Jimmy, but in different flavors.

Then, there’s Pearl, which… yeah. You Know. I’d feel a little like a peasant lecturing to a professor of physics about blackholes if I were to try and explain the Scott-Pearl dynamic to you. The difference between the dynamic between solely Scott-Pearl VS Scott-and-somebody-else-and-Pearl is something that I felt like could definitely be talked about. Overlapping a bit with that, the only group alliances Scott’s ever had are in Secret Life and Wild Life. It still does feel like he makes or suggests a lot of decisions for the group, but to a much lesser extent. Gem & the Scotts mostly had Gem make the major decisions, which I feel like was a bit predestined from the point they picked that name, but also because it was Gem’s first time in the series and he wanted to make sure she had fun. It feels weird to say Gem also has a bit of a strong personality, especially since she tends to handle any social situation first with niceness (except Pearl this season lol) , but I do feel like Gem always makes sure to have her voice heard out, especially among people she’s comfortably with. When she’s determined or unimpressed about something, she isn’t afraid to say it, which I feel like is also why she was able to take a leadership role so easily in Secret Life. Scott more acted like her evil advisor or something, but in the end, he was the one to make her kill him. I wonder if there’s a noticeable difference in how much Scott dictated parts of the Gem & the Scotts conversation before and after Gem ‘betrayed’ him?

There’s also the layer of Scott being a winner, which means after Last Life, the way he plays the game is different from other players. I wish there were more winners so I could say this definitely, but after they’ve won, winners tend to take on an ‘advisor’ role in their alliances. If I had to extrapolate from what I’ve seen, Scott plays pretty much the same between Third Life/Last Life and Double Life/etc, but only in the early-mid episodes of each series. He’s still very much focused on surviving himself, but during the latter part of each series, you can tell it’s only so he can set up somebody else to win. I feel like he had more sway in the decisions in Gem & the Scotts compared to the GGGGimpluse (do. Do they have a name), and I’d say that, apart from the fact he’s in a group with more people making it that way, it’s because he’s also sorta deferring/sharing with Cleo. Kinda. To summarize, Scott takes point a lot in his alliances, a bit noticeably less so in 3+ groups.

Scott also probably has the best record for teaming with different people each season (Jimmy-Pearl-Cleo/Pearlkinda-Martyn-Gem/Impulse). If we’re going by official teaming, this season is the only actual season where he’s had duplicates. It does speak to his irl role of knowing So Many Dang people, which is actually why I was thinking about this in the first place — if the fact that Scott is the one who organizes a lot of people together for games is noticeable in the Life series, apart from the fact he’s good at manipulating and the overall social game.

The person who I feel like automatically assumes a leadership role the most out of everyone, even more than Scott, is definitely Grian. Throughout the seasons you can very much see he’s a Manager, starting each episode with a group meeting and dictating what the goals are for that day. You can definitely see this in the Southlands and the Bad Boys (Joel sometimes too), but it is noticeably toned down in Secret Life w/ Cleo and Etho. This is probably because of his comparatively less familiarity with both of them and the obvious heightened respect he has for Etho, but even despite all of that, there were also a few moments where he did dictate what the Roomies were gonna do. Regardless, in contrast to Scott, it seems he becomes more like a leader in larger groups. It didn’t really dawn on me before, but Grian’s only partnership alliance has really only been with Scar, unless you count Secret Soulmates with BigB. This lack of partnership alliances with other people is really interesting to me, especially since it feels like a lot of other people have had a couple different sole partnership alliances. However, it is tough to say how exactly Grian acts in partnerships because Scar has been his only partner. Scar is interesting because, if he is in an alliance, he tends to turn/need one or more of the people in his alliance into his ‘vetoer’ or facilitator. The dynamic a lot of the time is Scar proposes an off-the-walls idea while the other person/people modifies it or denies it. Who would you say is more of the leader — the person who proposes the ideas or the person who makes the final decision/veto on whether the alliance does it? It’s hard to say, and again arbitrary to strictly define the positions in the alliances as strictly leader/follower compared to partners, but I’d say the vetoer who facilitates Scar does come off as becoming the person who tends to take point in his group. You can see this with Cleo in the Family and sorta even with Joel. As such, Grian falling into this role of facilitator does partly have to do with that Scar effect. However, he definitely takes a big proactive approach to leading the partnership, like with making plans to help Scar kill people, which indicates he would do the same for partnerships with different people. Going back to that thing where I said previous winners tend to become advisors for other people after their win, Grian definitely doesn’t fall under that generalization. It’s probably also due to the fact he’s hasn’t made it as close to the end in future series compared to some of the other winners, so he’s never had really the choice on who he wants to support to win. Still, I can’t think of a time where he’s assumed a more supportive role for another player, always aiming to either get himself or all of his alliance to the end, and creating kinda crazy plans while he’s at it. Whereas winners Scott and Pearl tend to accept their deaths well, Grian dies fighting and screaming to reach the end (Not to say that Scott/Pearl don’t try to reach the end, but Grian feels a little more vicious about it compared to how Scott/Pearl are after their season.). This is probably due to Grian’s competitive nature and bringing entertainment to his series. Grian tends to continually team with people he’s already pretty close to (Scar-Mumbo/Martyn/Jimmy/BigB-Scarkinda/BigB-Joel/Jimmy-Etho/Cleo-Mumbo/Skizz). They’re pretty much all in the same group of people, with Secret Life probably being his biggest divergence from his usual circle. As said earlier, this probably makes him more comfortable to lead the people in his alliance, since his brand of leadership can be a bit jokingly-mean/demanding sometimes. In fact, you can kind of tell he gets quiet when he’s in a group of people he doesn’t really know.

uhhh this is getting too long so i’ll hold off on an entire paragraph for the entire cast but here’s quick thoughts:

Cleo plays middle-ground with taking point a lot? She’s kinda like Scott in that you can tell a difference between her Etho/Scott/BigB and Scar/Bdubs alliances. Scar and Bdubs facilitator, while being on more ‘equal grounds’ with the former people.

Pearlito is. Gosh. It’s interesting how the way she played the game is so starkly different from before she won is so different after. at least from what i remember when I watched her? How she acts in the Nosy Neighbors & the Mounders is just. Aaaaaaaaa. She also spent one her seasons as a ‘loner’, a status she earned alongside other people like Scar, Lizzie, and BigB. Obviously those people did have alliances with individual people, but none that was main. I definitely feel like when players spend one or more of their seasons alone, it kinda changes how they play and how they drive a conversation.

Martyn!!! Loves to act on his own, but does play a huge role in whatever alliance he’s in usually, probably cause he spends a lot of creative juices trying to make everything entertaining. Made a lot of rules in Southlands, right hand and planner for Ren, etc etc.

Speaking of Lizzie, I wish she were in more seasons, but I noticed that it seemed like she was the one kinda took point and made goals in the BAM alliance. This might be her thing about I haven’t seen her Last Life series in a hot minute, but it makes me want to go back and check if she did the same thing for the Fairy Fort.

Skizz also feels like a notable person who leads the group talks sometimes, like with BEST or TIES or even this season, with Grian even deferring to him to make goals during the group meetings sometimes. In fact, I’d probably put him on the same level as Scott/Grian. Skizz's brand of leadership is very distinct to me, he does it in a way where it's obvious he must have had to take a lot of company leadership seminars in the past.

I feel like Bdubs tends to... not quite lead, but moreover set a lot of the dynamic for a group he's in? It's strange. Like this season with the Tuff Guys, or with Last Life, his inflated personality and jokes guide a lot of the actual alliance discussions.

Etho and Tango are in groups of lot, but tend to do their own thing or listen to other people. (Tango/Cleo alliance save me… that like five minute alliance they had and never brought up again…). When Etho does talk, though, people are really likely to listen to him.

Impulse… my brain isn’t working to Articulate, but his history of playing multiple sides and mostly taking a listener role during group discussion.

Insert all the other players here, running outta brain room but i’m feral about all of them

i also can't claim to be a pearlboy or scottgirl or really be a super analyzer or any of them, so i'm really sorry if i mischaracterized somebody's favorite lil guy

Anyhow yeah. Sorry for the incoherentness i just love thinking about the general trends and patterns these guys fall into. What do you think? Who do you think naturally gravitates towards being a leader in their alliances, and why? It also makes me wonder how players like Grian and Scott would work together if they were in a strict partnership alliance.

I don't really know what to add I think this is just a rlly good post. I almost feel a little bad posting this like I'm stealing your good take for myself rn but this is good this is good

(also please don't feel threatened by my supposed knowledge on scott/pearl or ethubs or any other character or ship for that matter. My view often fluctuates with rewatches as new context is added, I read my own old writing and think to myself "this guy is insane" all the time. And by my own admission it's been a long time since I've watched LL despite that being my favourite season and where a lot of my takes form. I'd also feel like the number one hypocrite in the world if someone told me what they saw in a ship and I went nuh uh incorrect buzzer when like a good quarter of my posts are analysing analysis and interpretation as concepts in this fandom in of themselves)

Actually I lied I do have stuff to add. Although this is literally like. already a really good post just on its own this is more for flavour

Right on with Grian's leadership-oriented personality, I think it's really cool how that's literally the thing Skizz applauds him on in LimL with affirmation station.

There's several things interesting to me about that scene, mostly in regard to Skizz's surprising social awareness and ability to read people, but also the fact that it's one of the few (if not only? Someone fact check me) Skizz affirmations that gets cut in the receiver's POV.

Which I think, following meta analysis rules, implies some fun things! From my perspective, it's implications are:

Grian's just a dick and didn't really care about Skizz's affirmation, it just wasn't important enough to him to show up in his POV.

Grian didn't feel deserving of the affirmation, which I think would go very well with how all of the people he leads (Scar included) tend to go towards disaster sooner or later.

Evil option which I will talk more about with other characters. Grian might have complicated feelings about the position of "leader" because while leaders are respected, they are also more visible and therefore vulnerable to becoming a target.

That third one leading to my next point about how I think it's interesting with Scott/Martyn how they are both people who could in theory be very effective leaders and seem to want power/control yet shy away from those roles. You're so right about Scott being Gem's evil advisor he's definitely the more subtle out of the two in terms of putting himself in control, whereas Martyn is pretty much always a little bit blatant with wanting to lead and protect his teammates but never actually adopts a "leader" role. He actually more co-leads than anything else with the bigger groups he's been in, with Ren in 3L and Grian in LL which is fun especially when you consider his complete lack of loyalty in either. The one person both seem completely comfortable holding power over is Jimmy which I think is. Fun.

To make yourself a leader is to make yourself a target, and I think both Scott and Martyn are smart enough to know that and manipulate it to fit their needs. As such they both adopt "puppet leaders" (Gem for Scott and Ren for Martyn) to give themselves to while finding ways to pull strings. I think that's what made their duo work so well, they both understand what the other one is about with this whole "alliance" business.

I think there also might be something really fun you could get from this when considering Ren and Lizzie's dynamic the next season, but like you anon I haven't watched the Fairy Fort POV in awhile and don't really feel confident saying anything. However I do remember Ren being the one who establishes the Shadow Alliance through his bond with Martyn, as well as the one who comes up with the whole "Queen of Shadows" thing, so take that as you will.

But people who pursue leadership in this setting aren't just stupid or naive, it takes a certain level of courage and confidence and mayhaps belief in your allies to be able to do that. Something that someone like Gem is perfect for, since she pretty much hits all the notes.

Skizz is what you get, I think, when you have the confidence and the love and trust in your teammates, but not the ability to hold onto your own authority (or even see that your teammates are disregarding it). BEST you lovely, lovely mess you. TIES is pretty much BEST but more stable but even then I don't think TIES so much respected Skizz as authority as much as they saw him as a friend who needed to be protected. With every season he seems to become more and more aware that he isn't taken seriously, I know he dropped it almost immediately but his "no more mr nice guy!" routine at the start of WL reads as acknowledgement of that to me.

I think you could make an alignment chart out of this. But just off the top of my head:

players who are happy to play leader:

Ren

Lizzie

Skizz

Gem

Grian who will act as leader, but avoid gaining a reputation for it

Cleo kind of falls somewhere around here too with the mother clocker stuff, I don't think she really thinks of herself as a leader though.

players who are shrewd enough to avoid the risk of being leader, but still want some level of control:

Martyn

Scott

Bdubs kindaaa? I haven't quite figured out what his deal is in WL yet, but I think he's aware Tango and Etho won't take him seriously as leader and he also literally said their alliance operated by every man for himself, so I don't really take his assertions of leadership seriously. Either way he is more manipulative than most people realize and I think if you wanted to bring HC into this, his thing with Mayor Scar and King Ren is pretty much as evil advisor as you can get.

players who are shrewd enough to avoid leadership But Also don't really desire control of their teams as a whole, they value their own survival as individuals more and while they don't necessarily see their teams as expendable, they're playing with the idea that they're gonna disband or leave eventually in mind:

Etho

Impulse

Bigb kinda because he really just seems to want to vibe but keeps getting pulled into these big ass alliances

players who don't really go in with any agenda and usually just end up being followers:

Jimmy (<- kind of complicated because he's frustrated about the Ecosystem and Will backstab his teammates if he's desperate but at the same time it's not because he's manipulative it's because he's desperate)

Tango

Mumbo

wild cards

Pearl, who you already summed up very well. She very much would rather vibe before DL, and after DL seems more willing to be a sword than a companion for whoever her chosen guy is. I think you could say more about Pearl's sense of agency here but. Yeah weird girl.

Joel, who is actually very passionate and loyal to his teammates, but will also maul Jimmy to death when he gets mad. He's also had like. No friends so this is harder to judge. I will say he kind of took on leadership amongst the reds in LL though, with Lizzie acting as his Martyn.

Scar. Who is Scar

Anyway. interesting interesting. group dynamics yay

#asks #long post

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ihopesocomic · 2 months ago

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hi hello, been following the comic for quite a while now, decided to give it a read after discovering your MP review (i was still a MP fan when i first watched it LOL, pretty embarrassing.) and ive been in love with the comic ever since, i absolutely LOVE how everyone is written, but i really want to talk about the difference between vicious and powerstrike.

both showed the mothers being nice (to some degree) to their daughters, but powerstrike's sudden abusive behavior towards nothing never made sense because, frankly, theres no reason for her to be acting like this other than that shes an ableist turd, and she has a perfectly normal relationship with said person that hurt her daughter... vicious' relationship with jasper on the other hand has been shown to be abusive, and even though vicious is horrible, shes is a victim of jasper's abuse, and her repeating the abuse onto her children comes off as her trying to maintain control over things.

i hate powerstrike, its not even like a love hate thing, shes horribly written and doesnt deserve redemption. on the other hand, i love and hate vicious, she has so much more depths and UGHH the writing in IHS really tugs at my heart, its just so good.

apologies for the ramble, im really looking forward to see where this story goes <3

Thank you so so much, anon!

And yeah, even though Powerstrike was "nice" to Nothing for all but five seconds, we just had to have the insinuation that having a dead kid is better than having a disabled one.

And then there's a whole damned speech in Episode 5, which would absolutely be indefensible in any other circumstance but, for whatever reason, MP fans seem to somehow think Powerstrike's speech somehow translates to her being a victim as well, even though whatever victimhood she has is never explored. She's only shown being quite content with the so-called 'cult' she's stuck in, having positive interactions with Quickmane and so on.

She never defends her disabled daughter (because if she truly cared about Nothing, why didn't she defend her from Quickmane in Episode 5?) nor her remaining son. She also never mentions her dead mate and son once, even though she's shown mourning for her mother, who had not only lived a full life but treated her family as ruthlessly as she did by being a religious zealot.

While the show also portrays Sharptongue as being loving and supportive to the point it completely slips under the viewer's radar, including those who say they don't like the show. Honestly, fuck both Powerstrike and Sharptongue. I can't express that enough. lol

But I feel that's purely a consequence of My Pride trying to make its characters complex and two-dimensional but thinking that a way to do that is to have character motivations that cancel each other out be present at the same time. You can't have a character be an abusive parent and be portrayed as somebody automatically worthy of redemption and 'aww, she loves her punchbag really!'.

You can't have a religious zealot who was cool with a murderer strolling into the family home and kill several members of said family "bc Pride Law lol" while also being portrayed as supportive and kind. It's not only poor writing, it's just weird as all hell.

Instead of being insecure about having 'deep' characters and trying to cram so many things into a character so that your audience doesn't 'miss the memo' (which a lot of them won't because they're not unintelligent), a lot of things can just be left unsaid and the audience can figure it out from there. Like Vicious being an abuse victim. Abuse causes a lot of psychological issues and can warp a person over time. This is very well documented. Boom. We don't really need to say or show anymore.

So, thank you very much for taking a notice, anon. It's always appreciated when these methods we use in the writing pay off! c: - RJ

#ask #ask us stuff #rj answers #my pride mention #vicious #golden grove

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aihoshiino · 1 year ago

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chapter 133 thoughts!

Right off the bat, I'm really glad to see OnK looping back around to address something that was largely left hanging from the first half of the movie arc - the idea that Ruby simply lacks the acting chops to properly portray Ai in the movie. This was hammered in to such a degree that I actually had a theory back before shooting started that Ruby was going to end up backing out of playing Ai and that Kana, Akane or even Frill would end up taking her place. Obviously it's not that I want Ruby to fail here or that she doesn't deserve a big W after everything she's been through but it felt really weird for the story to correctly make the point that Ruby's acting was going to make or break this movie and then not properly bring that point home. So I'm glad to see we're actually digging into it this chapter.

That said, it does feel a little... abrupt, I guess? Or rather, I totally understand Ruby cracking under the pressure and having a bit of a meltdown off the back of Nino's words last chapter - that obviously cut really deep - but suddenly jumping back to this idea that Ruby is Just Not Getting Ai after we hadn't touched on that since filming started and we've had no indication it's still an ongoing issue is weird. Especially since Mengo has literally just been flat out drawing Ai any time she's portraying her on panel lol. Maybe holding off on showing her with the double hoshigan would've been a better choice in conveying that...

Again, I guess it just comes back to what I've been saying lately about the movie arc feeling really weirdly structured. Things feel kind of jumbled, or necessarily out of order persay but the way arcs, emotional beats and development is happening in fits and spurts gives everything this stuttering rhythm where all the major beats feel like they're landing in really strange places.

All that aside... man, poor Ruby. We haven't really gotten as good a look into her head as I would've liked during the movie's production but the amount of pressure she feels must be immense. Strawberry Productions have put all their money into this movie and Ruby is telling the story of one of the people she loves more than anyone else in the world. It's no wonder she's in tears by the end of it.

The story also addresses something I'm really glad to see on the page - Kana acknowledging that Ai was the way she was largely because of her negative experiences. I've had a bit of unease lately with the idea of OnK portraying Ai as an aspirational figure or that Ruby 'becoming' or 'surpassing' Ai is a positive step for her. Ai of B-Komachi existed because Hoshino Ai experienced such an abnormally cruel life that was so utterly lacking in warmth or love that she had to make up a perfect version of herself just to feel like she had permission to be alive. It's not that Ruby has never experienced hardship - god knows she has - but she simply does not have experience with the exact nature of the despair, the loneliness and the self hate that Ai struggled with her entire life. Without opening herself up to that, she might never be able to fully understand Ai.

Kana's description of Nino is also really fascinating and it lines up with how I personally was reading her off the back of that chapter combined with the foundation laid by 45510. Her feelings for Ai are a life-altering obsession that has ripped down the boundary between 'love' and 'hate'. It's both at the same time which is an emotional state you can probably conclude is not going to lead someone to grieve in a healthy or productive way.

<3 nino is such a gay little freak i love her so much

Ruby and Kana's talk in general in this chapter is sooooo fucking good, dudes. It's hard not to want to go over it line by line lol but it's the kind of talk I've wanted them to have for a really long time. Their earnest concern for each other and their attempts to reach out and protect the other as clumsily as they end up doing it are so sweet and it makes the end of this chapter such a gut punch... but we'll get there.

I will say it's uh incredibly fucking bizarre to see Akane sorted in alongside the people Ruby considers her family??? Like, I get that Ruby had the whole 'can I call you oneechan' thing with her back while she and Aqua were dating but they've never been portrayed as being that close or really on friendly terms at all after the Private arc. Not only that, but this is specifically in a context where Ruby is talking about how the movie is going to help her family, who are still stuck in their grief over Ai's death move forward - so why the fuck is Akane there?? Akane has no personal relationship to Ai! She was not remotely affected by her death! I can only assume this was some kind of art mistake because I otherwise have absolutely no fucking clue what this is supposed to mean. EDIT: Taking a closer look at the art, I'm pretty certain this is in fact an art mistake and that's Ruby accidentally given Akane's hair screening: her eyes are dark and she seems to have Ruby's hoshigan. Mystery solved!

Ruby's face as she cries looks sooooooo much like Miyako's expression as she cried back in 125. I even noticed then how much she looked like both Ai and Ruby in that moment and it was so sad and lovely to see that similarity mirrored in Ruby. Miyako is their mom!!! Ai and Ruby are her daughters!!!

And finally... Kana just lets it all out.

Honestly, seeing Kana finally express all this stuff was so cathartic. She didn't want to be in B-Komachi to start with, she was bullied into being the center and then watched Ruby absolutely leave her in the dirt. Knowing what we do about Kana's own history of abandonment and her absolute terror at the prospect of being left behind and made irrelevant, it would be naive to assume she didn't feel some jealousy or bitterness in the wake of Ruby's meteoric rise to fame. She's only human, after all and I can't help but wonder if this is one of the 'cracks' left in black hoshigan Ruby's wake that Aqua ominously alluded to a while back.

Even as she pours out all this bile, though - Kana is still, in a twisted way, doing this out of pure love for Ruby. As she herself puts it, she is at risk of permanently destroying their relationship here even though Ruby is her closest and dearest friend. But that's why she feels she had to do it. Like always, Kana sacrifices herself, desecrates herself and throws herself under the bus to support the people she loves and to play the coordinator - to ensure her costars can give the best possible performance. Arima Kana? Don't worry about her. She's fine off in the shadows by herself, right?

I also can't help but wonder if Kana is doing this at least in part for herself, too. We saw that she, too, was struck deeply and unsettled by Nino's words last week and by how deeply Nino was poisoned by her hate and feelings of inferiority towards Ai. Maybe this is Kana's way of trying to purge herself of those feelings so she can look her inner Nino in the eye and confidently say "I am not like you".

No break next week...!

#oshi no ko #onk spoilers #oshi no posting

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nebulacollege · 2 months ago

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Are any of them close to their parents?

I planned on this ask to be a part of the short ones, but something went wrong lol

I imagine all of them being on rather neutral terms with their parents, with some closer to them than others. The boys right now are more concerned about their future, so any family relationship is not their priority, but they do differ.

Ned and Liam have better relationships with their parents, nothing unusual.

Ned is concerned about not following the path they imagined for him, so for now he keeps his distance to keep it a secret, as he’s too scared to tell them the truth. It’s not like they would judge him, but what if they’ll be against it? He’s not ready to face that.

Liam just has a neutrally friendly relationship with his parents and they hope he would inherit their business, but while the father’s just concerned about that, for some reason I imagine his mother’s already noticed that their boy is a little bit different and special. She doesn’t have much to work with, but there’s something slightly off about him. He’s very independent, has been very ~perfect~ as a child, and she can’t really say what he’s thinking despite knowing him for so long – he’s her son, after all. He’s unpredictable and it worries her, but Liam hasn’t done anything weird at all. He doesn’t have friends, but that’s not a crime, and he behaves very well... it’s just a gut feeling. She thinks that the answer is right there, she just can’t pinpoint it.

Edmund and Niall have more problems with their relationships with parents, but nothing very extreme.

I plan on touching Edmund’s situation in the game, so I won’t go into details. I’ll just say that his parents love him dearly and spoil him, but they’re not close to Edmund. There’re some events that have made Edmund distance himself from them, and they love him too much to pressure him into doing anything he doesn’t want to. He, of course, knows that they love him, and he loves them as well, but certain complications force all of them to let go. Not to say they’re saints, though, since it’s kinda (?) their fault that Edmund did that in the first place, but in their situation there’s no one to blame, at least from my point of view.

Niall’s situation is also going to be addressed to some degree, but he has the worst relationship out of the bunch. Not bad, he can’t even complain about being compared to his siblings all the time (it happened sometimes, of course, but there was no pressure (!) on him to match someone despite his personality). But when there’re so many people in your family and it’s so important, everyone’s constantly busy with something, so nobody really had time for Niall. He’s not the only one in that position in his family, and he hasn’t been extremely neglected or anything, but that’s why his relationship with his parents is the coldest one out of the four of them.

#nc replies

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shootingstarrfish · 9 months ago

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Hi I wanted to ask one of my fav obey me artists this question: Least favorite to favorite characters? If you wanna say why, that'd be cool. If anything! Please have a nice day!

hii there!!! dearest anon stop being so nice you're going to make me cry AHSHDHD thank you,,, <33333

but what a fun question! for anyone who doesn't want to read my stupid long explanation for each character i will leave this tierlist here! all tiers (except the first tier) are organised by most to least liked within the tier from left to right

no i dont hate lucifer, it's just facebook relationship status (aka complicated <3)

i have plenty of opinions though so i'll go ahead and give some explanations too!! >:D under the cut because there's a lot of rambling here LOL

some of the list is a bit boring because i cant really say i hate or even dislike any characters, and i don't wanna be mean about any characters just cause they're not necessarily my favourites so!

that being said lucifer pisses me off to a comical degree and he absolutely doesn't belong at the bottom but my feelings about him are so ridiculously complicated i don't know where else he belongs? i wish so badly that i could hate him in an uncomplicated way and move on but as an eldest sibling he's such a personal attack on me and i hate it. he's me, i'm him it's horrible. every time i start to think "ahh he's not that bad" he opens his mouth and makes me regret thinking that. i still think about the time i chose to kiss him on the ferris wheel and he held his hand out after and i took it and he said it reminded him of his dead sister, i will never stop holding it against him. he deserves to be loved and taken care of and he also should be thrown off a cliff. im quite certain if i had to assign myself a sin i would pick pride and i hate it >:( (this is all very lighthearted lol)

diavolo used to viscerally annoy me for no good reason when i first started the game, but over time he's grown on me and i'd say now i'm neutral-positive on him!! no idea why i hated him, i was just very salty for no reason hahaha i've recently come to appreciate his character a lot more, im very :( about how lonely he must be and i want him to have more genuine friends please solmare

i think mephisto really is just the kind of character i need to see more of to like, he's very interesting to read character analyses of (and kinda relatable tbh?) but i just need more in game is all! i love his silly lil poses those are real fun, and he is pretty

levi is another i also used to hate out of nowhere? i was neutral on him initially and then i suddenly hated him with a burning passion until one of my friends told me she really loved him and im physically incapable of hating a character my friends love so we're chill again HAHA slowly beginning to like him though! what a pathetic sopping wet cat of a man, it's GREAT

OUUGHH i so badly wanna be able to love beel more, it hurts me to have to put him here but unfortunately this is the way it is... i think it's more accurate to say i love the idea of beel? and ive noticed i really like him everywhere that isnt the game, which again is unfortunate :,)))

LUKE IS MY SON he is babyyyyyyy that's all i have to say <333 my precious lil sonboy he deserves the whole entire world

everyone loves mammon, and i am no exception :D he's not necessarily my type hence why he's neatly placed right in the middle but ugh i love a guy who tries and fails miserably to act tough but is super sweet inside, what a guy <3 ok i flip flopped between putting satan and simeon in the love tier because i am so very fond of both of them, but that's too many characters up there so imagine they're both in a weird tier purgatory between the 2 LOL

i am in fact going to marry simeon and then we will raise luke together it's a fact simeon is everything he's pretty and beautiful and a very complex and interesting character ahhh

SATAN MY LOVE he's a very interesting case to me in that i feel on paper he should be the kind of character who would be on the top of the list! he's smart and kind and unhinged and would kill for you and he likes cats!!! truly husband material i adore him

im going to marry thirteen, thanks for listening to my ted talk <3 my darling beautiful wife who would laugh hysterically if i fell down the stairs i love u thirteen <3333333 we will be wed tomorrow and we will live the dream in her silly lil cave of pranks and curses

i dont know what it is about raphael but i adore him??? is it the wet kitten swag? the done with life expression? his ridiculous outfit? i couldnt tell you but i saw him for the first time and i was immediately obsessed everything i learn about him just makes me more obsessed, i love the fact that he enjoys solomons cooking, the way he's good at sewing and is kind but kinda scary, what a fun character

i could talk endlessly about solomon oh how i love this silly househusband wizard guy i was pretty neutral on him in the og game, and then he swiftly stole my heart in nightbringer and now i would eat his terrible cooking any day of the week just to see him smile <3 if i die seeing him happy that's probably the best way to go out all his calls and messages are sooo cute and they make me melt im in love please just one chance...

barbatos and solomon are typically equal on the list i'd say? but the barbatos brainrot is hitting harder now so he gets to be ever so slightly higher this once hahaha barbs is another that took a while to grow on me, not that i ever disliked him or anything but i definitely overlooked him at first! design wise i absolutely LOVE him, his demon form is definitely one of my absolute favourites. the unique but still put together suit?? the ruffles?? the bone wing horns?? ugh he's just very pretty, and SO interesting as well love a calm collected guy who totally has the potential to destroy you if he so wishes but has a soft spot for you

and of course, real shocker im sure, at the tippy top of the list would be asmo and belphie my beloveds <333 i love them both equally and i could never put one above the other i actually started playing obey me for belphie because one of my favourite character tropes is The Tired One TM, and im absolutely not immune to a cute emo boy either. i've grown to really love his sass and the way he hides his manipulative nature behind his sweet and innocent appearance hehe i also do love how ridiculously forward and blunt he is at times, what a silly guy while belphie was very predictable, asmo was a very out of nowhere character for me! i distinctly remember seeing him initially and thinking "avatar of lust?? i guess he's pretty but he'll probably just be the fuckboy character who makes nonstop innuendos and has no character beyond that, and i'm too asexual for this" so i avoided him a lot at first, but i'm very weak for how kind and gentle and charismatic he is, and the way he puts his all into everything and everyone <333 it didnt take long for me to realise that he's almost exactly the kind of person i aspire to be more like

also miura ayme gives me so much gender envy its not fair send tweet

#if u read all this.... thank u sdfhjhd i am high fiving u right now <333 #AND THANK U FOR ASKING ANON this was fun to consider #i like overthinking categories and lists so this was delightful for me #ask box #obey me

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wishcamper · 11 months ago

Text

All in the Family: ACOTAR PART II

Welcome back to our multi-part lesson on ACOTAR and Family Systems! Today’s topic is family roles, the interplay between them, and their combination’s influence on the nuclear family emotional process in the Inner Circle.

Pre-requisites: Part I

Creds: license and mf master's degree in counseling babyyy. and unhinged enough to write it all down.

No content warnings, just garden variety family dysfunction.

oh my god what the fuck does that mean

Let's back up and start with the structure of the IC pre-Archeron invasion. We have Rhysand, Cassian, Azriel, Morrigan, and Amren in a found family. This is where we have to suspend our disbelief a bit, because you’ll notice there are no parents in this family. However that doesn’t mean no one functions as a parent, because in any system there is a hierarchy, at least in an emotional sense, and the power vacuum will always get filled.

When a parent is missing from a nuclear family, very often one of the children will step in to fill the role and rebalance the system. Older siblings caring for younger ones, female children picking up housework, even phrases like calling someone the “man of the house” confer symbolic authority and responsibility to someone theoretically on the same level as the others. The dark end of this road is emotional incest, when parents rely on a child emotionally in the same way they would a spouse, a dynamic that is deeply inappropriate and incredibly damaging for a child.

Okay, so let’s talk about sibling position to see who is most likely to step up. This is a found family, so obviously none of these are based in biology, but if we look at the core four, they have a pretty clear birth order layout in terms of both power and personality.

Rhys: A textbook oldest child - responsibility-seeking, serious, tending toward leadership roles. Oldest children often feel the burden of setting a good example for others. Prone to relieving anxiety via control.

Az and Cas: Classic ends of the middle child spectrum (invisible to hyper-visible). Middle children are flexible, adaptable, and competitive, and often struggle with questions identity. They may seek to meet needs for connection and validation in unhealthy ways.

Mor: Baby of the family energy through and through. Youngest children are more likely to be outgoing, creative, and rebellious, and struggle with inferiority and self-centeredness. Interestingly, they’re also more likely to abuse alcohol and are overrepresented in psychiatric populations.

Amren, hilariously, comes across as an only child - they tend to be wise, independent, and private, struggling with social skills and receiving criticism. (1)

So who’s filling our parental roles here in the IC? Who has power over the others? Rhysand is an obvious choice - he regularly makes decisions for the group as well as individual members on the basis of his feelings and his political position. I think you could even argue Rhys sees the people of Velaris as his children, too, though he definitely plays favorites lol. Amren also emerges as a person with power, given everyone is afraid of her and she has influence over Rhys. Amren has some authority over the others, though she is less invested in their personal lives and so functions differently in the system than Daddy Rhys.

So Rhys is one parent, and Amren is like a weird aunt. It’s very normal in systems with a parentified child (PC) that the other children feel resentful - they’re all supposed to be on the same level, and yet one of them has been exalted above the rest. The PC can respond to this so many ways - force, charm, control, bribes, threats, ignoring them - it’ll depend on the person and the individual system. But the PC will also feel that counter-resentment and leverage the power position to create balance in the family (Cassian, Azriel, stop trying to kiss your sisters). The irony is that, in this system, no one asked Rhys to be in power over his friends - he decided he wanted them in his court and blurred those lines himself. I suspect this was intentional, though likely unconscious, because it gives him a nuclear option if he ever needs to reestablish order and control in his family. We see him pull rank in tense personal moments that have literally nothing to do with politics despite his excuse they do.

(I do think, though, that there’s an argument to be made here that, for people in certain positions of prominence and influence, all your choices are political. Your image is part of your power and so, by extension, the parts of your personal life that become public have an effect on your ability to rule. Rhys and Feyre use this rationale with Nesta in ACOSF, though my babe isn’t exactly a Hunter Biden. More of a Claudia Conway, I’d say.)

Let's go back to our scary image from the beginning.

Bowen believed in the importance of visualizing this structure, so he advocates for family mapping or construction of a genogram (2). Given what we’ve unpacked so far, we can roughly plot the individual connections and hierachy. I’ve created this one to show the basics of the relationships and power structure in the IC, and we’ll get more specific from here.

Solid lines=connectedness

Dashed lines=conflict

Arrow=direction of energy

Squiggles=ambivalence/fluctuation

Line thickness=emotional closeness

Amren’s special line to Rhys=whatever ulterior motive she has

If you remember from my last post, one of the most important forces in a family is the triangle. Take another look at the triangles above, and see which ones seem unstable to you. The one that immediately stands out to me, even just visually, is the Cas/Az/Mor triangle. Each individual relationship has a different tenor, which creates a lot of instability. You can see how Mor needs that closeness with Cas to balance the tension with Az, but in order to keep their relationship stable, Cas and Az have Rhys as a moderating presence. Because what is the one thing they all have in common? A close relationship with Rhys. And Rhys has Amren to reinforce his power and responsibility, keeping the whole system in balance.

In this way, the IC’s system, while dysfunctional, is relatively stable pre-Archerons.

To understand how that’s possible, we have to talk about anxiety. Anxiety is the main energy that moves conflict through the family and sets off the nuclear family emotional process (NFEP). Anxiety must go somewhere. In enmeshed systems like this one (members’ emotions and security are highly dependent on one another), members relieve their anxiety through the system instead of resolving it individually or in dyads. In cut off, emotionally distant systems, anxiety gets internalized or displaced outside the family.

Given the sheer variety of relationships in the system, the most likely source of anxiety is Morrigan. She has a different relationship to every person in the system. She’s in the middle of the power hierarchy between the “parents” and the “kids”, and floats around inside the relatively stable triangle of the bat boys, with individual connections to each one . She also has a pattern of internal conflict that she moderates externally via alcohol and relationships. Despite not having the most power externally, Mor’s actions and reactions often cause the rest of the system to shuffle around her, giving her a great deal of power.

But don’t just take my word for it - let’s look at this in action.

Say Mor, Cas, and Az go out together bc apparently that is something they do regularly. Mor feels Azriel getting too close, which triggers her anxiety because she does not want to talk about whatever is between them. In response, she communicates her displeasure by leveraging the triangle and focusing her intimate attention on Cassian. But this creates conflict for Cassian, who wants to moderate Mor’s anxiety without rupturing his relationship with Azriel. Hence, we get the weird overfamiliar platonic besties routine, threading the needling of giving Mor the protection she’s asking for without out-and-out antagonizing his brother. Azriel buries his hurt feelings and retracts emotionally, despite wanting to be connected, and they go back to how they were.

So we can see how Mor has generated the anxiety, and it follows down the chain: she passes it off to the boys, who deal with it through emotional cutoff (Az) and enmeshment (Cas). Cassian steps in between the conflict at Mor’s unconscious request and takes inappropriate responsibility for Azriel’s feelings of rejection and Mor’s anxiety, while Az puts his feelings away and reestablishes emotional distance. This is the NFEP in action.

And yet Cassian and Azriel are still shown to be close, so where do these feelings go? I mean, they do physically fight each other all the time lol. Azriel banks a lot of repressed resentment he has to discharge elsewhere. Cassian feels the burden of peacemaking and internalizes the unresolved conflict as his own fault, doubling down on his commitment to making it better. Mor avoids contending with her own feelings because everyone else is doing it for her.

And here’s where Rhys becomes a moderating presence for all of them. Rhys has ultimate decision-making power over who is in and who’s out of the family, and sets the rules of engagement. He decides who gets respect, who’s allowed to initiate conflict. Rhys hold’s the power in the bat boys triangle, the strongest alliance in the system, incentivizing Cas and Az to get along with each other. He also incentivizes Mor/Cas/Az to keep their shit together because Amren has influence over him, and they need their alliance to leverage power against her. Rhys doesn’t have a problem with the buffer, so they rest of them “don’t” either.

The best question to ask when it comes to dysfunction is this: who benefits? We can see this in larger systems, too: who benefits for housing disparity, patriarchy, systemic racism, ableism, homophobia and transphobia? People in power. If a system is balanced via dysfunction, it’s because whoever is in power wants it that way. With families, this is often more unconscious - perhaps Rhys is just as afraid of family disintegration as Mor, and believes addressing their issues will cause them to split. Perhaps there is a more generational pattern at play. I think it’s worth considering not just how this family functions, but what conscious and unconscious choices are being made given their individual families of origin.

And then the Archeron’s come, and all these cracks will be exposed and the system will get blown to shit. See you next time, class dismissed!

Sources:

Eckstein, D., & Kaufman, J. A. (2012). The role of birth order in personality: An enduring intellectual legacy of Alfred Adler. The Journal of Individual Psychology, 68(1), 60–61.

Brown, J. (1999). Bowen family systems theory and practice: Illustration and critique. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 20(2), 94-103.

Genogram made with Canva, art by @artworks_by_rokii, rosalynnart on deviant art, @sallteas

#prythian university #acotar #morrigan #cassian #rhysand #azriel #amren #family dysfunction #family systems #the buffer #sjm critical

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manias-wordcount · 2 years ago

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Hi! Can I get Edward Elric (Fullmetal Alchemist), Tamaki Suoh (OHSHC), and Illumi Zoldyck with a hypermobile fem s/o with knee problems?

Here’s where the insight comes: now, because of my flexible joints, I can do all sorts of weird things. I can twist my arms like 360 degrees or so (sometimes, I hear the joints popping; it doesn’t hurt most of the time, but I do feel a minor squeeze at worst), I can bend my thumb to my forearm (though it hurts somewhat if I hold it too long, but that goes away quickly; for some reason, my left is more flexible than my right), and I’ve been known to be able to touch my shoulder or even my face with my foot if I stretch it enough. Also, my skin is stretchier than most people’s, and it’s to the point where I can kind of cover my thumb in my hand (and it freaks people out). Also, I can do this thing where I turn my hands inward and my elbows poke out (I legit once had a girl come to me saying, “That’s not normal,” bless her heart. I even do what’s called the W position on a daily basis, which is comfortable to sit in but takes a bit to get up from. Conveniently, it allows me to scratch my own back without a backscratcher or even give myself a massage if I want. On the downside, I have a history of kneecap dislocations (I’ve had a total of 4: 3 times in the left kneecap and once in the right, all on separate occasions and it’s been happening since I was 13). As such, I’m best off with low-impact exercises like swimming or cycling because they’re easier on my joints than, say, soccer. Thankfully, I’ve found things like hot baths and basically being in hot water is very soothing for my joints. Also, I remember I was once recommended mustard paste for my kneecaps but I have yet to test it. I don’t know the exact cause of my hypermobility because I haven’t been diagnosed yet but that’s ok.

Note: I don’t know if you write for Meliodas from Seven Deadly Sins or Snake from Black Butler, but if you do, are you ok with adding them too? If not, would another character of your choice from those fandoms be ok?

Hypermobile S/o with knee problems HCs (Edward Elric, Tamaki Suoh, Illumi Zoldyck, Meliodas, Snake)

𝗔/𝗡: 𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗴𝗼 !!!!

𝙒𝙖𝙣𝙩 𝙩𝙤 𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙙 𝙢𝙤𝙧𝙚? ⇒ 𝙈𝙖𝙨𝙩𝙚𝙧𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩

𝙟𝙤𝙞𝙣 𝙢𝙮 𝙙𝙞𝙨𝙘𝙤𝙧𝙙 𝙨𝙚𝙧𝙫𝙚𝙧?

Edward Elric

Out of everyone?

He’s probably the one who knows the most about hypermobility

Though he was extremely surprised the first time he saw it in action

It’s something he definitely read about when doing all kinds of studies about the human body

And when he was just finding out about hypermobility, he was probably surprised at first about just how much more complex it is

Though now that he’s older, he’s prepared to help with any potential problems that may arise for you

However, he’s still Ed

He’ll be the one to help you to the infirmary when your knee dislocates

But you know he’ll panic and he’ll yell about it first before he gains enough sense to get you the help you need

So at least he isn’t totally useless…he’s just Ed!

Tamaki Suoh

10000% will scream “WHAT DID YOU DO TO YOUR BODY” the first time he saw your hypermobility

But don’t worry

A quick dumbed-down explanation (by Haruhi or even Karou) will have Tamaki singing a different tune in a second

In fact, he’d probably start asking if you could do a bunch of tricks

And if you could show it to him too LOL

Out of everyone, it’ll probably be Honey to ask if it ever hurts doing all the things your body is able to do

And the second you mention your knee problems? Oh boy

Tama-chan is going to be all over you

Researching about all the things that could ever go wrong, looking up what he can ever do to help, finding out if there's stuff he can buy you to make things better- the works

But hey! At least he’s supportive!

Illumi Zoldyck

He knows

No need to tell you anything

In fact, knowing him and his family?

It’s entirely possible he knew before YOU did

If you ever do anything to showcase your hypermobility, he won’t comment much on it

He’s just content watching you do your own thing

He will tell you to be careful though

But you don’t have to worry much

The household knows your medical history- all of it

Illumi (and literally anyone on the Zoldyck payroll) are here to assist you if ever the need arises

Meliodas

Genuinely does think it’s cool

But he’ll be super nonchalant about it as he usually is with the weirdest things

Though you know he’ll be bragging about how cool he thinks you are when he gets drunk to the other guys

Of course, it’s probably Gowther that points out how your hypermobility has been the source of a few instances of pain for you

And suddenly it starts to make sense why you’re the first to move far away from a fight

Aside from Hawks after someone gives him a swift kick to belly

And your general avoidance for anything high impact

Naturally, he’s going to start consulting the all-knowing Merlin if there’s anything she can do to help you

And even though it’s disappointing to hear that she currently has nothing in her arsenal, you at least have a very powerful demon now looking out for you in case of a problem!

(…As if you didn’t have that all along LOL)

Snake

As a (former) member of Noah’s Ark circus, you’re not the first person he’s met with hypermobility

Compared to others, finding out about this aspect of your life isn’t so surprising given his upbringing

Though he can’t say he expected it

Something like this isn’t so obvious until it is

Of course, that doesn’t mean he knows anything about it

He’s not the most sociable (or knowledgeable) for that matter

It was through getting close to you and hearing you speak about yourself that he was able to learn about hypermobility and how it affects you in particular

Finding out about your knee problems and your other sources of pain definitely made him a little more protective

Not like he was doing anything that would end up bad for you in the first place but still!

Snake is a good boy at heart! He’ll look out for you <3

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dayisfading · 5 months ago

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lol just gonna vent about work for a second:

i'm realizing why (aside from the bullshit accommodation situation) i have been feeling so demoralized at work lately. our newest team member is about 8 months in now, so he is taking on more and more responsibilities, which includes data visualization bc he knows tableau. blah blah blah, i won't go into the details of what's gone on the last two months but i had a very frustrating experience with a project i was working with him on.

anyway, what's bugging me is this: this huge initiative that we compile/analyze/report the data for has been central for my entire time in this role; when i got here, we had hardly any data. i was central to compiling basically all of it, providing descriptive analytics and some basic visualizations (so. many. excel. charts.) there's not many people on my team, so truly, i think it's fair to say i have the most thorough understanding of this data, not just in terms of what it represents for this initiative, but also what it takes to compile it.

so it frustrates me for someone to come in who has significant experience with data analysis tools but less experience (seemingly) with like, being in the trenches with data. i don't know how else to explain it, but like, we're talking merging, compiling, analyzing and visualizing data all with excel! versus running code on a dataset that you were just given & not actually spending a lot of time in the data. (this is how a bunch of errors almost ended up in a pretty big presentation!)

also, on a related note, i am frustrated with my position because i do have to spend so much time mired in data, i don't have a whole lot of time to learn and implement new skills, but i have all of this analytic understanding courtesy of my two soc degrees that i never get to use! it's not about not liking what i do, it's just feeling like i'm slightly being pushed out of things i was central to building and simultaneously feeling like i'm lowest on the totem pole.

and i'm also like, slightly jaded in this weird backwards way because i don't understand why i was promoted in the context of all this lmao. it sucks to feel like i need more education to be able to advance in my field because the only skills i'm developing rn are with antiquated tools.

#blech.#just wanna take 6 months off and get a certificate.#job posting

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bittrlys · 1 year ago

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THE GOOD

Viren and Harrow scene

CRAB SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Young Viren

Viren selfcest (<- stream of consciousness note that I stand by, he needs to learn to love himself)

Aaravos and Viren had a baby <3 (I like that this twist about the child to save him only works for people who weren't already joking about this being their lovechild all last season)

The heavyhanded diaogue is lol but its nice to see Viren's internal journey ("DAD I'M FOLLOWING IN YOUR FOOTSTEPS" guys you really could have just shown that. But I guess Viren is literal even with his metaphors. I forgive him.)

Viren zoned the fuck out half the season still the best part of the show. But like I love the sense of crushing realization and weight of his thoughts. King of thinking <3

Nice to see Claudia also getting to do cool complicated things

Viren and Claudia literally carry the dramatic weight of the series on their shoulders -tm my friend

I appreciate that Terry continues to be down to clown

This blood elf assassin is hot ♥

I like the water elf design the coral horns are cool (and he looks like a Critical Role character)

I always love pirate towns so that's cool! And some brief actual intense stakes with the pirate captain.

Aaravos. FULL STOP. Like 10 lines of dialogue and he served with them all!

"If you see Claudia again tell her I said ..... hi" hahaa

THE BAD

The Rayllum (what was Callum even apologizing for?? Rayla just genuinely does not seem to like him.)

Janai immediately pivots in her belief because only villains are allowed to stick by their reasonable positions which oppose the desires of the main characters

Again, what changed Tidebound Tina's perspective and made her help them??? Characters will truly just change perspectives in a second if they're meant to be 'good' and not defy the main characters

Ezran is so entitled. Rayla is like oh this boat is a bad idea he's immediately like "WE NEED THAT ONE!" and then proceeds to get them all nearly murdered by pirates for some tadpoles and does not apologize at all.

That being said it seems the show just isn't that interested in Ezran or Rayla

Would it have killed them to include a scene showing why Rayla decides to show up and save the day in finale? She has no arc.

I understand the conclusion that Callum came to with ocean magic but I don't believe his process of getting there.

Can Janai do her damn job all she's ever shown doing is hanging out in her pyjamas pining and being in love. Tied with Zubeia who just hangs about talking about her husband and son all day.

THE UGLY

STOP WITH THIS DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS SHIT (why would the Archdragon of the Ocean give a damn about a human ruler? But like Oh! We Have To Respect A King!)

They show up to the library with only FIVE HOURS TO SUNSET instead of idk camping outside the city until the next dawn and coming in then. And then leave directly at sunset instead of giving themselves like an hour of wiggle room. Unreal!

They can't even let these entitled main characters even THINK Amaya died for their arrogance Like they can't even feel guilt about it for five seconds.

What's the point of having a deus ex machina dragon you insert in every scene to save their asses (god I need Zubeia dead) if she's just going to stand there and do literally nothing while Amaya is attacked. Rewatch that scene camera never cuts to Zubeia's face to even show her idk considering it? Being unable to help? Just get rid of this dragon already she weakens the plot to an absurd degree.

Zubeia surviving. Full stop.

Thunder killed off this group of elves for the crime of uhhhh doing weird blood rituals? Moonshadow elves (Thunder's personal hit squad) do blood rituals. Thunder just loves massacring any group of people who defy his tyranny.

It's surreal that Xadians NEVER comment on the humans in their midst like the show will not draw attention to the fact that humans are othered + marginalized. It perpetually feels like the writers are backtracking on lore they previously established because they don't want to make Xadians look bad.

Like I can believe a criminal port is full of all elements but this happens elsewhere in Xadia. Even the Archdragon of Ocean doesn't address the fact that Ezran is a human.

But it's not like the differences between humans and Xadians aren't noted because humans (like Amaya) still have to constantly grovel for Xadian approval + forgiveness. Like for WHAT. Should Amaya have to apologize to Rayla anymore than Rayla should apologize for coming to assassinate a 10-year-old Ezran in season 1?

for fucking tadpoles?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Callum, Rayla, and Ezran are UNSYMPATHETIC protagonists they literally will never face any consequences for any of their actions. Nothing really goes wrong for them -- they're always saved from trouble and they get everything ultimately handed them. They are supremely privileged, entitled people. Meanwhile Viren and Claudia go through 19 layers of hell just trying to get 1 thing done.

Overall I'd say it was better than season 4! 👍👍👍

#tdp critical #*

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transmutationisms · 1 year ago

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Do you have any further thoughts on the word twink and how it’s somewhat evolved into a pejorative term used to denote any kind of stereotypically gay man because it drives me insane since its original definition referred to a body type (or a porn category. to be real. 10 years ago this is what it meant) and not really about behavior or whatever “twink culture” is supposed to mean now and how people use it to talk about fat phobia/gay desirability politics as you mentioned. I understand language evolves but I feel like this word specifically has evolved in an extremely insane way and now every time I hear a straight person call someone a twink as a socially acceptable way to call them a homo but not in a nice way it drives me crazy and when I saw people doing discourse about Troye Sivan’s rush music video because it celebrated “twink culture” I really felt like I was trapped in some kind of endless mirror hallway hell

i guess my twink hot take is that gay people, no less than straight people, are prone to ascribe personality traits and moral status to appearance, including body type, and as far as i can tell this has always been part of what "twink" meant. like i agree that the way straight people have picked it up as just being, like, a socially acceptable way to basically imply homophobic slurs is bizarre lol, but i think twink has always had some element of negative judgment baked in. like a certain degree of superficiality or insubstantiality always seems to have been ascribed along with any pronouncement of twinkhood.

anyway yeah what i was thinking wrt desirability politics is that it seems to me that a lot of weird discussions occur where someone uses the word "twink" to stand in for "gay man who has access to certain social privileges", often specifically thinness and whiteness. and it's a frustrating use of this term because, while fatphobia and white supremacy are manifest in gay subcultures no less than in straight overcultures, they extend beyond and around 'twinks' and framing a discussion this way tends to just lead into really pointless and weird asides about 'twink culture' or whatever rather than naming the actual terms on the table.

i also think "twink" is complicated by the fact that, while it's not synonymous with "effeminate", it has pretty much always included an element of femininity, partly because femininity is often inherently read into the thin / hairless / young body. i think this speaks to the dual position of 'twinks' as objects of both desire and derogation; many such cases wrt femininity and specifically trans-femininity. anyone trying to talk about 'twinks' as though this is some kind of universal gay beauty standard is, i think, really failing to grapple with this element of gender deviation and how it's received by both straight and gay people. again i think this is an outcome of trying to use the word "twink" as a shortcut to discuss things like fatphobia and white supremacy in gay beauty standards, rather than naming those things and then interrogating their role in the construction of the 'twink'.

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longitudinalwaveme · 10 months ago

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Captain Cold and the Blizzard Battle: The Kid's Book of Never-Ending Cold Puns

I was looking through some of the older posts on @gorogues's blog, and I was reminded that there was a kid's book that featured Captain Cold and the Top called Captain Cold and the Blizzard Battle. Since it was selling for six bucks on Amazon, I bought a copy, and I am now going to share my thoughts on it with everyone:

Captain Cold's stats (6'2", 196 lbs, brown hair, brown eyes) are taken directly from all those DC guidebooks.

The puns begin almost immediately. Len terrorized Central City with "cold-hearted crimes", the Flash "put him on ice", he has "nerves of ice", and "his cold heart lets him remain calm and collected even when the heat is on". The book also identifies the yellow capsule-looking things on his belt as cold grenades, though I don't think that those are what they actually are.

Captain Cold makes an entire blizzard just to rob an armored car. Seems a bit excessive. He also does it in May, because of course he does.

The blizzard also gets some kids out of school early, much to the kids' delight.

LOL, Len looks so proud of himself as he walks away with his loot.

Icicle (who is also in Central City, and is showing up Len), is stealing some "cold hard cash". Because cold puns!

Len gets away with his loot, since the Flash is more interested in stopping the Icicle (who's trying to get away with a hundred times as much money as Len) than he is in stopping Len. However, because Icicle is threatening his position as the best cold-themed criminal, Len can't even feel happy about his success.

Apparently Captain Cold's hideout is in an indoor tanning salon/steam sauna. He bought it with stolen money just so he could shut it down, because he just hates tanning salons/saunas that much. (I imagine that Mick was disappointed when he learned about that.) The fact that it's an excellent hiding spot for him is just a bonus.

And then Roscoe shows up! He's Len's pal in this story (which is hilarious, since they usually hate each other), and, even though Len invited him over, he still freaks out when Roscoe shows up (allegedly because he might have been the Flash).

"Aww, even you aren't cold enough to freeze a friend." And then Roscoe is instantly proven wrong when Len freezes his nose for no reason.

Roscoe has had "so many run-ins with the law today that my head is spinning".

Anyway, Len is bitter about the fact that Icicle seems to be better at his own game than he is, and tells Roscoe that he's lucky to be the only "spins-around-fast villain in the world."

Roscoe: "Thanks! But don't sell yourself short! What would we do without a guy like you?" Cheerful friendly Roscoe is both endearing and weird.

Len: "You'd call the Icicle. Or Mr. Freeze. Or any one of the other villains who have cold powers. Nowadays, it seems like there are dozens of them!" Len has a point. DC is full of ice-themed villains.

We then learn that, while Len got away with $10,000, the Icicle managed to get away with a million dollars (meaning that he also beat the Flash), and that at some point in the past, Len froze the Eiffel Tower. Why? Who knows!

Unfortunately, the Top then points out that Icicle froze all of Germany at the same time Len was freezing the Eiffel Tower, which I guess makes this version of Icicle the most powerful version ever.

Roscoe: "I hate to say it, but I know when a guy's been topped!" All these horrible puns make me smile.

Len wants to put the Icicle in his place for showing him up all the time, and, after Roscoe starts sneezing, he gets the idea to spread the common cold to the entire city. No, really. His evil plan is to spread the common cold to the entire city, and then rob some banks while everyone is too busy being sick to stop him.

In order to do this, he alters his cold gun so it can lower the temperature by about 20 degrees (instead of its usual, much lower temperatures), breaks into Bosh Labs to steal an experimental hypothermic rhinovirus (rhinovirus is the scientific name for the common cold, which I surprisingly actually did not know!), releases the virus into the air, and then makes the weather chilly so that the virus will spread really fast and get everybody sick.

Len won't be affected by the virus, however, because he also took the antidote from the labs (and also drank some orange juice, just in case.)

"He was about to conquer the entire city with a super-powerful cold! That had to be the greatest "cold crime" in history!" PUNS!

The plan works immediately, and everybody gets sick....but when Len goes to rob a bank, he learns that the Icicle has taken the credit for releasing the virus on live TV, and predictably gets angry.

"After all the years he had spent stealing from Central City, Captain Cold finally knew what it felt like to be robbed." This line is amazing and I love it.

Captain Cold goes to a coffee shop to get his favorite drink, iced coffee. Unfortunately for him, there's a very long line of people (all of whom are ordering tea, apparently), so he uses his cold gun to cut to the front of the line in a manner reminiscent of Gru in the Despicable Me movies.

The clerk gives Len regular coffee, so he freezes the poor clerk too and ices the drink himself...only to see the Flash fighting the Icicle through the window. And because of the cold Len gave him the Flash is losing!

Len goes back to his hideout, and Roscoe promptly shows up two seconds later, noting that it looks like the Icicle is going to "put the Flash on ice----permanently!"

For some reason, Roscoe always spins inside Len's hideout instead of just walking inside like a normal person. Which actually makes sense for Roscoe.

Roscoe has come down with the cold alongside everyone else in Central City. He thinks that the Icicle is responsible until he notices that Len isn't sneezing, at which point Len explains that he was the one who created the virus, and thus knew to take the antidote. Icicle wasn't affected because his entire body is made of ice, and thus can't catch a cold.

Len also reiterates that his cold gun can't affect Icicle...right before informing the Top that he's planning to go help Flash fight the Icicle anyway.

Roscoe's reaction: "That would mean saving your worst enemy---and mine! If you could, that is. No offense, but you said it yourself. You're just a guy with a cold gun. The icicle is made of ice. Your cold blasts can't hurt him, but..."

Len: "The Icicle can hurt me."

"The Top nodded, and then sneezed. "That doesn't sound like a fight you can win." " Len and Roscoe hanging out together is the best part of this book.

Len, being Len, is determined to fight Icicle anyway, and goes out to do just that. He saves the Flash from the Icicle, which prompts the Icicle to realize that Len's probably mad about him taking the credit for his crimes. The Icicle kind-of sort-of apologizes before telling Len to get out of his way so that "the better cold villain" can "finish off the Flash".

Shockingly, Len doesn't react well to this, and tells Icicle that if he wants the Flash, he'll have to go through Len first. Icicle replies with a title drop: "You just made a big mistake....You and I do the same thing. Only I do it better! But if you want a blizzard battle---you've got it!"

The two start fighting, and, while they're pretty evenly matched in terms of output, Len has a massive problem: as was underscored earlier, he doesn't have any real defense against Icicle's powers.

As the fight starts to turn against him, Len runs away and heads for his hideout. Icicle follows him, boasting about how dumb Len was to lead him to his hideout...and then Len promptly turns on all the saunas and indoor tanning beds, increasing the temperature in the room along with them.

This drains Icicle's powers, and Len promptly kicks the crap out of the powerless Icicle. "It takes more than ice powers to make a man cold. I always knew I was colder than you!" Oh, Len.

After he's sure he's defeated the Icicle, Len makes some more puns. "They say revenge is a dish best served cold....But it also tastes pretty good hot!"

Then the Flash shows up, immediately disarms Len, and knocks him to the ground with one super-speed punch. He's still suffering from the effects of the cold, but the fight between Icicle and Len gave him enough time to recover from his fight with Icicle.

Flash: "I just don't understand supervillains. It was so easy to follow the icy path of destruction that led here. So now I know where your hideout is, which means it isn't good for anything anymore. And with the Icicle out cold and your gun out of your hands, I won't have any problem taking you to jail...Was all of that really worth it? Just so everyone would know you were the one who unleashed this sickness on the city?"

In Len's mind, of course, it was totally worth it. Now that the Flash knows he unleashed the virus, everyone will know "that Captain Cold was the villain responsible for the greatest cold crime ever committed in the city!" So...happy end for Len, I guess.

No mention of what happened to Roscoe. Maybe he decided to go on a date with Lisa.

Anyway, this story was delightful and I loved it to bits. Having a story narrated entirely by Len was great, and I enjoyed that he felt in-character throughout. I could totally see Silver Age comic Len pulling a scheme like this, and Cold's strategic cleverness and grouchy possessiveness of Central City seems to come straight from Johns' Len. I also loved how hilariously petty he was throughout the story, from using his cold gun to cut in line for coffee to saving the Flash from Icicle just so he could prove that he was the better criminal.

The never-ending puns were likewise great, and I enjoyed that Roscoe got to be an important character in the book. Even though the role of Len's cheerful but slightly dimwitted pal would have worked better for Mick than for him, there's something extremely funny about having Roscoe in that role given how much he and Len hate each other in the main comics. And hey, he's still an endearing dork who makes top puns, so there are still some aspects of him that are recognizably Roscoe.

Finally, I enjoyed the art and the characters' slightly goofy facial expressions. I will probably do a separate post of the art at some point so that everyone else can enjoy it.

This is a great little book, and it was definitely worth the six dollars I paid for it.

#flash rogues #flash comics #captain cold #the top #the flash #the ridiculous things I buy as part of my Flash collection #book review

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