#it's good omen actually trust me

[chappellrroan]

I sent you this on the other blog and you didn’t see this but I need you to see this now cause this is eery but hilarious

THAT NUMBER IS ALMOST HAUNTING ME LMAO EVERYWHERE I GO ITS ALWAYS JUST 17

I’ve got to accept the fact that I’m in this 17 shit for life

it's called being blessed with the carat life

[spoonmoment69420]

i hate gay people man wtf is this shit

[tyetyetyetyetyetye]

I'm having a great time with my gay little shows about gay people falling into gay little love but it is making me want to fall into gay little love but no one wants to love me

[charcubed]

I NEEEED people—especially those with unfathomably large platforms???—to start doing just a tiny bit of internal evaluation before they log onto a blue website and say “I don’t want these queer characters to fuck in canon” or “I’d be fine if these characters never kissed again” or whatever.

This is a post about Good Omens and the prospect of Aziraphale and Crowley potentially having sex in season 3. It's a response to a tweet that I'm crossposting, but let it be known the above statement and this topic applies broadly across multiple fandoms too.

But anyway, in regards to Good Omens specifically:

I am seeing this take that essentially boils down to "Canon has now made it clear that these characters want to have sex with each other through subtext (i.e. Aziraphale and the ox), but I don’t want that to reach narrative completion because the idea of them having sex makes me uncomfortable or isn’t my personal preference” and it is, to put it mildly and delicately, A Very Bad Take.

This is rhetorical (and I do not expect or particularly want an answer), but: explain to me how and why queer characters who are unavoidably visibly queer (aka 2 "man-shaped beings") fucking on screen wouldn’t be a net positive, especially when you can indicate how canon has set it up.

Presumably, some people say things like this because ~they want to see them as visibly ace.~ Okay. But by some of these people’s own admission, there IS more evidence in canon now to indicate these characters crave sex with each other (vs arguing otherwise)... yet people would rather that be ignored/erased all for the sake of them feeling comfortable or feeling better about what canon shows or doesn’t show explicitly??

I’m sorry, but—speaking as an ace person, to be clear—your personal preferences for the story shouldn’t / don’t affect anything here. There’s too much in this.

Yeah, I understand on a personal level not having “representation.” I almost never see myself or my unique experiences and identity reflected in stories. And yet, I also understand that that doesn’t change any story or the world in which we live. Things like this are not said in a vacuum.

Any queer characters having sex on screen IS a net positive. It is rare and impactful, and openly calling for or hoping for otherwise when canon points to its potential is a detrimental alliance with purity culture, whether intentionally or accidentally. Because we live in a Goddamn society!

Who knows (other than Neil Gaiman) whether Aziraphale and Crowley ARE going to fuck on international TV. None of us do! But the subtext right now blatantly says they’re starving for it. And you don’t have to like the prospect of that, but honestly? We SHOULD get to see it play out. There’s no truly legitimate reason we shouldn’t ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Whether you "prefer" it or not.

And my ultimate hot take is… if someone balks at the idea of that or doesn’t understand the importance of it, despite even seeing the subtext… then they should perhaps unpack that? Just a thought.

Truly the way fandoms are managing to hit either “subtext doesn’t count :/ ” or “let’s keep it to subtext so it’s ‘open to interpretation’ :) ” nowadays depending on what corner one visits is MADDENING. Whiplash-inducing. Surreal. And so much nonsense you can’t pick where to start.

So! I do genuinely hope I'm not kicking off discourse but I felt this Needed To Be Said (and on more than one site). Because posts like “even if they never kiss again, we’ve won <3 “ make me want to be like…

These characters are YEARNING. Do not doom them and us to it. For once, we can reach for the stars and maybe–against all odds–pull them down. Embrace it!

---

[Update: after more discourse has occurred, I have somewhat elaborated on this further, from the POV of the significance of the queer themes in Good Omens and more specifically how they center illicit pleasure/desire]

[fleething]

Thinking about the fact that Aziraphale feels like guns give weight to a moral argument when they’re “in the right hands”. Now who’s the first person he gives an actual rifle to, without even the slightest moment of hesitation? Crowley.

[inkybinkyboink]

hi ok unpopular thought but you can tell when a cis/het person is playing a queer character because they always prioritize the queerness of their character over anything else

[freshbaked-bread]

girls

[alex51324]

Bildad the Shuhite

Here's another thing I figured out today. You know the Bildad the Shuhite gag? The one where Crowley goes "Need any shoes?" and Michael is like, "Shuhite means from Shua, dumbass," and Crowley is like, "Duh, they wear shoes in Shua?"

Sure, yeah, you know the one.

And you also know the big main theme of the show, about shades of grey, and how Good and Evil aren't completely separate boxes that you can put people (and angels, and demons) in, and they're not even like a simple Venn diagram with two big circles and a little tiny bit of overlap; it's actually a huge & complicated one with like 37 circles that overlap and cut through each other in all kinds of weird ways, and probably some of the circles are actually doughnuts?

Sure, you know that, too.

What if I told you that the "shoemaker from Shua" joke is about that theme?

Michael, the archangel, knows what a Shuhite is: it's someone from Shua. That's what the label on the box labeled "Shuhite" means.

But Crowley--the demon, the Fallen, the asker of questions, the resident of Earth--knows that nobody ever stays in just one box. Of course there are Shuhites, from Shua, who make shoes--just like there are demons who, IDK, play the ukulele, or like flash cars, and angels who like, IDK, association football or sushi. (There's maybe even a demon, from Hell, or an angel, from Heaven, who makes shoes.)

Everybody's got more than one thing about them--and that's why, and how, there's also an angel who has just enough doubt, and a demon who has just enough love for the world, to team up and thwart the will of God give an old couple their children back.

And that's the secret Heaven doesn't know.

(Jemimah, who made this pot and is a daughter of Job, probably does, though.)

[itsanauxine]

Me in the bathroom at work hyping myself up in the mirror: Don’t talk about your hyperfixations, don’t talk about your hyperfixations, don’t talk about your hyperfixations-

Co-worker: Hey did you see Cocaine Be-

Me: DID YOU SEE RENFIELD

[mommyashtoreth]

At what level of unforgivable clout poisoning does it become okay for me to post abt crossover shite. Mine are very funny and clever and not lame I promise. In unrelated news goomenheads have any of youse ever heard of The Last Temptation

[tenok]

The point (one of them) is that both Aziraphale and Crowley actually think they the smartest one in any given situation. And since I relate to Aziraphale much more today I get fixated on his brand of superiority. He starts his journey with rebellion from pretty tame "I don't get why they makes this desisions and it's look horrible on surface evel but I'm sure that they get best ineterests of everyone involved in their hearts and it's probably me the one that didn't get some oblivious detail" to "oh okay I'm sure it's some kind of misundestanding and we can all talk it out as adults because we there work on same goals" to frustrated "they won't ever listen to me and I will get in trouble for arguing and it will be better for everyone if I will make my desisions in secret and go behind their backs because I just can't let THEM make desisions that will destroy everything". It's not straightforward, I'm 30 and still circulate sometimes between "what if it's me the one that wrong aout everything" and "god HOW people can be THAT stupid", but I remember going throught this stages first as good and obedient kid with really stupid parents making stupid desisions and later with school, govermnet, activist spaces etc.

And the problem is, I was the smartest person in the room enough time to develop issues, and Aziraphale lives like his for 6000 years at least. I can only imagine how many times he thought "if only Starmaker listen to me and didn't Fall", "if only God listened to me and didn't make an Apocalypse happen", "if only Heavens listened to me and didn't did this or that that thing", "if only Crowley listen to me and understand in what kind of danger we can get", "if only that human listened to me and haven't dig the body", etc etc. It's awful, to be the one who always gets to say "I told you so", especially when there's such awful consequenses you can't even feel satisfaction, and you will be the one to clen this mess up (and Aziraphae will clean, or better try to prevent). Now, it's of course leads to issues. BIG issues.

1) It's really hard to stop being plotting and maciavellian and communicate things properly when you expect that person will at best argue with you, at worst punish you and double down on their stupid desisons and you will clean this mess up. It also really hard to stop trying to control everything because you already accepted that everything is your responsibility and everyone else would just make things worse. (as someone that relates to Aziraphale I think he did so much progress there, the levels or trust he shows Crowley are amazing for two beings that probably last time heard of psychotherapy when Freud was alive. but such trust is fragile thing, one misstep and you back on your "it will be better if I do everything alone" bullshit. I'm not saying it's good. I'm also not saying that it's bad. it's just how things work)

2) It makes you overstep other people authonomy, because, again, it would be better for everyone if they did what you think best for them. It works funny wih Aziraphale because yes he's all for free choices for humanity!! NOW GO AND DO SMART CHOICES DAMN YOU!!! WHY YOU DON'T PICK THE THING THAT WOULD BE SMART TO PICK I HATE YOU ALL. That's where me and Aziraphale difer a little because at least I somewhat good at stepping into other people shoes and understand why they do what they do. But angel there is autistic (or bad at this specific thing for other reasons), so I think when people he consider reasonable doesn't agree with him for their own reasons he ge's really baffled, like, there arE correct opinion and it's mine, WHY are you being difficult?? to spite me?? And I'm sure that half of the reason why Aziraphale's so comfortable with Crowley is that he perfectly happy to let him buly or manipulate him into doing things Aziraphale picks as right. Usually Crowley know where pick his battles and how to play long game to make Aziraphale agree for really important stuff he wants from him, but otherwise? Sure he will complain how he hates Hamlet but they will watch Hamlet, and Aziraphale will be very pleased with himself. (and than there goes final fifteen and we back at "but WHY won't ypu agree with thing I pick or us IT'S GOOD AND RESONABLE THING" and we should be happy that consent is something that imporant for our angel ok? he would be angry with Crowley for picking wrong but he won't make him do what he doesn't want. they respect each other like that.)

3) It makes you really really tired and tense. You control everything, unfortunately the longer you do it the more things starts really depedend on you, you can't let go, you don't know anyone that can share this burden with you because first they should prove that they won't blow his up and for this you should share at least something with them, but what is they would blow it up? Better be safe than sorry. And look when it's my problems it's credit cards and doctor appointmens and with Aziraphale we talk about people dying. Crowley dying. Now, as I said, he actually shows Crowley so. much. trust. for someone with such issues. Because Crowley was there for 6000 years, and he proved himself capable enough times. But still there's areas where let go and not worry would be impossible for Aziraphale, Crowley's safety being one of such things (you see, you can risk with your life when you deal with your problems because whatever you will clean shit up if needed, but if someone close to you hurt themself?? it's YOUR problem too but it will be SO MUCH HARDER to clean. I think when Aziraphale points to Crowley that hell would be harder on him than he can expect heavens to punish him, it's partially because he believes it's true and partially because he knows how to minimize harm when heavens angry with him but HOW can he do this for Crowley??). Anyway. Lol. The more I think about it the more I sure that Crowley without Aziraphale would be a miserable angry dick, and Aziraphale wihout Crowley would be dead, because it was the one person that kept him one tiny slip away from total burn out.

So yeah there's a lot of posts about how angry heartbroken etc Crowley will be with Aziraphale (I don't agree but that's for other post), less posts about how sad and heartbroken will be Aziraphale, but I hope to see Azyraphale being angry too (it they will be angry with each other at all). Not only for not picking him or leaving or making everything messy and emotional and wasting their first kiss at their fight etc, but also because Aziraphale was trusting him! Trusting that he get another resonable adult in team with him! Someone who he can trust to make resonable desisions and see his ideas as clever and him as capable and being willing to go to the end of the world with him with mild complaints and than!! When he did trust him to understand!! He was like everyone else!! Unresonable and emotional and angry with him and why he asked him at all he should've do it secretly and alone as always and it would've be as usual and it wouldn't hurt but it was Crowley that taught him to trust and to ask him for help!! Breaking his perfectly fine coping mechanisms!! It's all his faut if you think about it huh?? (but of course he's already forgiven. but also Aziraphale would do what he needs to do alone this time, as one and only capable adult in the world.)

Anyway it's not a meta it's just some late night thoughts. And it's in no way whole analizis there's so much more problems inside this angel. It's just something in particular that resonated with me today. Also it's not in any way critisizm of him, mind you, because a) he does really the smartest person in the room most of the time and b) I LOVE how fucked up in the head he is!!! I think he needs to become even more fucked up actually!!! and Crowley should love him for that and I will cheer for him from sidelines!!!

[littlemisswhimprone]

hozier dropped this at the worst fucking time because the way good omens is consuming my brain is not healthy BUT OH MY GOD ???

[iskierka]

sorry I’m just sitting here like. holy shit they actually like. went thought with hem being queer. what the fuck. The twelve year old inside me is too emotional

[keineahnung-ichhalt]

Okay here is my hot take about Good Omens: I don't want Crowley and Aziraphale to explicitly end up together romantically in the end of season 3. Please stay with me, I can explain.

One of the things I and many others love about their relationship is the ambiguity. You could say that they have known about each others feelings for hundreds, if not thousands of years, or that they only realised in season 2, that they never kissed before or that they made out after Eden. And canon doesn't directly contradict any of that. See, my point is that a lot about their relationship is ambiguous, and I like it this way. This is the reason this show speaks to so many people. This is so rare and what makes it so special.

Also, one of the themes of season 2 is them trying to figure out what kind of relationship they want, and also not really fitting into a classic human romantic relationship. And it would be shame if all of that would just end in them having a classic romantic ending. The entire point is that they don't fit into any categories, why try to put them in one?

We also need to consider that they don't really have a framework for relationships except what they know from romance novels and movies. So even if they are acting like in these kinds of media, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's exactly what they want, that just means that they have discovered that they have feelings they don't know and are trying to figure them out. And while that process involves these things, that doesn't mean that it's the end result.

What I'm not saying is that I don't want them happy, of course I do. I need them to find to each other again and hug it out and maybe even have a kiss that is not a goodbye if they want. I want them to be happy too. All I'm saying is that I hope that the ending won't be overly romance coded and still allow for other interpretations, because in the end, this is what they are all about.

[dragonstoned]

not just ‘to’ the world in s3

ngl as much as i want to see the boys be bigshots in s3 (like fine tv version crowley was probably Someone Important, am willing to accept this and see where they go with it!! i unreservedly want fully self-actualized aziraphale using his position to gut heaven from the inside!! the shit they can do together at max levels of love wow ok let it rip!!!!)

but. i like that the first armageddon’t featured a group effort of mostly random humans. the theme of plucky kids taking down personifications of humanities’ major ills etc etc. ‘ordinary’ citizens coming together to save their big beautiful messed up world -- two of which happen to be crowley and aziraphale -- because this is their home, these are the people, that they love

and so i want humanity to truly contribute to s3, to be written well, to not just be cameos or foils for epic a/c romance, to not just exist unknowingly as doom approaches

the big one: all of us versus all of them, the book said -- tbh i can take or leave the versus part, but i do want to keep all of us, our myriad humanness, having a conscious hand to play in shaping the upcoming events instead of the boys handing earth salvation on a platter

i truly get that tv gomens is different and ngl even from the book a/c were by far the most compelling characters to me but the Celebration of Humanity of it all was just..... the intent was very lovely and very important and i really want to see it done WELL in this presumably the grand finale actually

[ghoulytheghost]

the way phil dunphy from modern family does magic reminds me of aziraphale