#it's an exploration of an extrapolated scenario

[gigglemugger]

I'm posting the first chapter of my Welsey (Megan Halsey and Herbert West, idk if there's another ship name, probably, but I'm going going this one) fanfic today. It's the only chapter I am sure of, but I'll try to get more out. So far I have 7 of them written, forty three pages in total, so yeah I went far. I'm almost done with it and I'm just gonna begin.

[verecunda]

I personally see that "torture" conversation again as gaslighting from Annatars side, to be honest. Because (I double checked again to make sure i am not mistaken) "Never in Tolkien's lore does Morgoth torture Sauron. Some moments could imply such an act, such as in The Silmarillion where it is mentioned that Morgoth would have, if victorious, destroyed even the beings that followed him" - So to me it has that even ... Crueler twist of Annatar just trying to gaslight Celebrimbor again. Maybe that is just me though! And maybe in the series Morgoth really did unimaginable to Mairon. WHO KNOWS

Hi, Anon! This got long-winded, so bear with me here. XD

That is certainly a viable reading of the scene, and I definitely think we should never take Sauron at his word because, well, he’s Sauron. But honestly, I think it’s much more interesting, much more horrifying, if he is being honest here.

First, to get the lore stuff out of the way: agreed, nowhere in the books are we told Morgoth ever tortured him. But at the same time, we’re never told he didn’t. Sauron was obviously his most valuable and trusted servant, but he still was that - a servant, an underling, subject to his master’s caprices. And we don’t have any scenes of them interacting directly that allow us to gauge their relationship; we just have a handful of references that can be extrapolated in multiple ways. (For full disclosure: I’m an enthusiastic Angbang shipper, and I tend to view their relationship as more or less positive, one of the only good things they have going for them, but I try to keep an open mind on what canon does/doesn’t tell me.)

Most notably, take the scene where Sauron is defeated by Lúthien and Huan. She tells him she’ll send his spirit back to Angband : “There everlastingly thy naked self shall endure the torment of his scorn, pierced by his eyes.” Whereupon Sauron flees, and we hear nothing more of him till after the War of Wrath. We don’t know anything that he does in the meantime; we don’t even know if he returns to Morgoth’s service (the Lay of Leithian does suggest it, but the published Silmarillion gives us nothing either way). Whether or not Morgoth would actually punish him for his failure is probably beside the point: the point is that Sauron clearly believes punishment is a likely outcome. There are other ways you could parse this bit (and I do have Feelings about it!!) but the most obvious reading is that it’s terror of his master’s likely response that sends Sauron into hiding. So overall, it’s an ambiguous scenario, but there is certainly room to interpret a darker take on their relationship, and even allowing for deliberate ambiguity, it does seem to me that the show creators have chosen to explore that darker take.

To return to this particular scene, I don’t think he’s trying to deceive Celebrimbor any more - now that his true identity is revealed, outright deception is no longer going to work, because why would Celebrimbor believe anything else he says? Better to reel him back in with the truth. In that scene, I think Sauron is actually trying to make him understand his grand vision for the “healing” of Middle-earth. We already know he believes that's what he's doing. I don’t think he views Celebrimbor as an equal, no way, but I think he does consider that Celebrimbor’s ambitions chime with his own.

But crucially, his failure here is that in baring his soul and talking about the genuine suffering he’s gone through, he inadvertently reveals just how warped and ultimately irredeemable his own mindset has become. We actually saw this first with Galadriel at the end of s1: Sauron reveals his relief at Morgoth’s defeat, his feeling that a “great, clenched fist” had been released from about his neck - yet just a couple of minutes after that, he repels her because he admits that he sees saving Middle-earth and ruling it as the same thing.

It’s the same in the tower scene. Revealing his torture by Morgoth does engage Celebrimbor’s sympathy, but he loses it almost at once when he starts talking about his pain being a triumph of his own willpower, then especially when he breaks out all the textbook abuser lines about how Celebrimbor has “forced” him to hurt and deceive him. I don't think he would have said all that if he was just lying. All that self-justification strikes me as the response of someone who has suffered, but has never found a healthy way to process any of it, and who has ultimately gone on to continue the cycle of abuse. And when Celebrimbor demolishes all these self-justifications - “You can deceive even yourself” - I think Sauron's expression there speaks volumes. That’s the look of a Maia who has just been hit where it hurts, because rather than being taken in, Celebrimbor has just confronted him with exactly how damaged and fucked up he really is.

[karamell-sweetz]

if i WERE to vote in this poll i would have to agree with you tbh. realistically the only non-n25 person i can see getting involved is rui and even then idk if that’s enough to constitute an entire eight-chapter substantial mixed event

unless they stuff it with past mzri flashbacks which i would be VERY pleased with. they did it sort of with mizu3 (kimi no yoru/ribbon) they can probably do it again

for archival/research/copium purposes

[dionysus-complex]

you mentioned you specialize in roman violence. can you rec any good works on the subject, especially during the late antique period? how much (or little) time/writing did latin authors spend on the question of the necessity/morality/glory of violence, especially when bound up with empire and borders? did rhetoric around domestic violence evolve?

It's obviously a massive topic, so it's difficult to know where to begin! For looking at violence in Late Antiquity, I highly recommend the work of Maijastina Kahlos as a starting point - most of her scholarship deals with tensions between religious communities in the Roman Empire in Late Antiquity, and I've found it extremely clear and illuminating. For Late Antique slavery, I'd look at Jennifer Trimble's work, especially "The Zoninus Collar and the Archaeology of Roman Slavery" (2016, JSTOR link here). On the intersections of violence and the legal system, I'd recommend Sarah Bond's 2014 article "Altering Infamy: Status, Violence, and Civic Exclusion in Late Antiquity" (JSTOR link here) as well as Julia Hillner's 2015 book Prison, Punishment and Penance in Late Antiquity. Amy Richlin is essential reading on Roman violence in general, and I'd highly highly recommend her piece "Cicero's Head" in Constructions of the Classical Body (ed. James Porter, 1999) if you have access to an academic library and can get a hold of it; it's explicitly framed as a Jewish, post-Holocaust reflection on the violence of the Roman proscriptions and civil wars and has been profoundly influential on my own thinking.

In general, Imperial-era Latin authors spend a lot of time thinking about the necessity/morality/glory of violence, to the point that I'd say violence is the key theme in Imperial Latin literature. It's often bound up with Stoic philosophy (in the 1st-2nd c. CE; Seneca's De Ira is a key text - you might take a look at sections 3.18-19 on torture under Caligula), and given the bias of our sources which skew toward the elite/senatorial-class perspective, it can be harder to track down texts that explicitly make the link between violence and Roman imperium. One famous example is the speech of Calgacus in Tacitus' Agricola 29-32 (link to a translation here), which purports to be the speech of a Celtic general in Britain rousing his troops to battle against the Romans in the 80s CE. Given that speeches in Roman historiography are generally regarded as being compositions by the historian, it's important to ask why exactly Tacitus of all people gives a prominent place to a scathing critique of Roman imperium - there are lots of ideas on this and few definitive answers, but it's a startling passage to say the least.

Imperial Latin epic poetry (e.g. Lucan's Bellum Civile; Statius' Thebaid) is well known for being graphically violent in the extreme (as in brutal torture, dismemberment, and one infamous instance of brain-eating in Thebaid 8), and there's a lot of work on how and why violence becomes highly aestheticized for Imperial Latin poets. There's also the genre of Roman declamation (difficult to explain, but essentially something like mock trial cases that were used for rhetorical education and showmanship), which frequently explores extremely violent scenarios involving torture, kin-killing, etc. Most scholars these days tend to read declamation as a space where (elite, male) Romans worked out and interrogated various cultural anxieties and taboos. Because of this, you get some of the strongest condemnations of violence found anywhere in Latin literature in the declamatory corpus, but it's difficult to extrapolate from that because again it's something like mock trial and rhetorical showmanship that does not necessarily map on to real-life Roman attitudes.

I've barely scratched the surface and there's a lot more I could say but I'll cut myself off here - I might be able to offer more specific recs if you're interested in e.g. violence as spectacle, aesthetics and artistic representations of violence, etc.

[bharv]

I'm learning the more I engage with fandom that the way I approach writing is different to some people, and that's why they often really uh disagree with how I approach things?

For me, I'm driven towards complexity in storytelling and places where there's space to extrapolate on themes. I look to what's in canon and what can be teased out more and that's where I sit myself down! It means that sometimes I'm not writing my interests or my personal views or anything like that, I'm looking at the complexity in canon and expanding this to the themes I see being explored. Quite often what I'm writing the characters doing, or being into, is very far outside of my own interests, but it makes sense to the character and their psychology to me!

Whereas I am learning that a lot of people go for characters they like, and then bring in storytelling to the character - be that taking that character and putting them across an AU, or putting on existing tropes to see how that character is in those established tropes. They like to put their favourite into a lens and see what occurs!

And then there are people who are story-style first! They love certain tropes, or circumstances, or kinks or scenarios, and they will put their faves into that and see what happens as a priority - it doesn't really matter to them if they would be into it in canon, they want to see how they are in that circumstance as a priority.

So out of interest for your own work are you...

[raychleadele]

When Lup asks Taako for The Best Day Ever, she tells him that “Barry already gave me a day.” In canon that’s never extrapolated upon, which makes sense since Lup and Barry are NPCs and it wouldn’t make sense in a game to have a private NPC only scene - but I don’t think I have ever seen anyone address this in fanfic either, which surprises me. Maybe it’s out there and I’ve missed it (a likely enough scenario, such a fic probably wouldn’t ping on most of my AO3 searches tbh) but if it’s not? Why haven’t we explored that more?

[everwalldigan]

Anon is just misconstruing people taking the fact that dick wasn’t around a lot during Jason’s run as robin and extrapolating that jason had a reason to be bitter about it as maligning dick. NeverMind the way dick fans love to give him angst with the “my mom gave me robin” thing even though that’s like a thing that got added one time, and dick gave Jason robin in a box their first interaction post-crisis. And that that box was deliberately drawn exactly like and intended to evoke when dick gave Jason robin in a box pre-crisis, when Jason was about to debut his own costume and persona and dick went out of his way to ask Jason to be robin. Like okay either dick didn’t have any resentment that could be picked up on, voiced or not, about his mom giving him robin and Jason stealing it, or you’re making your fave a boring 20something who beatifically suffered in perfect silence while a teen trampled on the memory of their dead mom. Which is it.

Like there are out of universe reasons dick wasn’t around when Jason was robin, Jason only existed as robin so that dick could spend all his time with the Teen Titans and Batman could still have a robin, so Nw didn’t cross over into Batman and Robin much, he did it quite a few times after Jason died before Tim came, and Jason’s post crisis robin run was pretty short so there wasn’t time because a lot of the time happened in time skips, but it doesn’t change the fact that dick mentored Tim and wasn’t there for Jason, and that Jason was kept by Batmans side so usually in Gotham, occasionally with Batman when he was doing justice league stuff, joining the Teen Titans once to help when dick was in trouble, doesn’t compare to Tim’s heavy involvement with YJ and TT. Dick fans are just soooo sensitive they can’t handle someone looking at those canon dynamics and considering their possible emotional impact, justified or not, and they especially can’t handle a what-if that explores how it would be if dick were mean. Like if there people hate fandom and alternate characterizations so much they should just log off or stay out of the tag, and never read else-worlds either 🙄🙄🙄

Tbh (as a dick fan myself, I came into the fandom and imprinted on him like a baby duck) I think dick had all the reason to be a bitch to Bruce and by extension cold/standoffish to Jason. Is it a shitty thing to do that to a kid who just wanted to have a home? Yes it is but 1. I don’t think dick was really intending to hurt Jason, I think he was so hurt and angry by Bruce’s actions that he didn’t really think about the position Jason was in. And 2. I think he’s allowed to be flawed and that doesn’t take away from his character at all

This is exactly why I feel intimidated when trying to delve into the comics cause it’s like, whatever iteration you pick you’re never right and there’s always someone who’s gonna say “well I think that iteration is bad, the one I like is more true to the character” if that makes sense. Like I like the concept of Robin being smth dick created with the memories of his parents to help people while making his family’s colours a symbol of hope. And with that concept comes the hurt of being essentially fired from the position you created and then finding out your mentor had just handed over that symbol to someone he basically just met. Like I think dick obviously does have regrets with the way he treated Jason and I think that guilt would manifest into him investing more into a relationship with Tim and not letting history repeat itself.

But then again, I’m still quite new to the fandom which is why I mostly keep out of discussions and stay with silly parodies/scenarios so if I misconstrued any of the characters in a major way… my bad

[mixelation]

I think it’s fairly common for people to headcanon Naruto as good at stealth/infiltration/“blending in” but in general I personally find this largely incongruent with canon. Here’s why (disclaimer that ofc you may have your own opinion or prefer this headcanon; I am simply teasing out my own thoughts here):

I think the logic of this headcanon comes from three things. First, from the way a lot of people conceptualize how Naruto’s childhood isolation went. The idea is that he was forced to learn to keep his head down and blend in and maybe even sneak around in order to get people to sell him food and clothes, to avoid an ongoing threat of violence, etc. My thing is that I don’t feel this is what canon actually implied was happening: what we mostly see is Naruto being alone while people off in the distance whisper about him. There is no implication of violence or that he had a hard time obtaining things for himself, like food. Naruto is so desperate for attention, to not be ignored and forgotten, that he is as loud and in your face as possible because even negative attention is better than nothing. There is ofc room for a character to be both desperate for attention but need to have a stealth mode for their own health/safety, but this requires a lot of nuance and complexity of character that I find a lot of people just like. Forget? Or exploring this new headcanon and narrative of having to go to the grocery store in disguise is more important to them than preserving his canon motivation/personality. (Absolutely nothing wrong with that, btw, but I am the type of person who gets annoyed by the attitude a headcanon is based on canon/“correct” when it’s noooot really.)

The second basis for the headcanon comes from people wanting to explore Naruto’s sexy no jutsu as more than what it is in canon, where it is basically used entirely for the shock value (barring some filler shenanigans and that bizarre but with Jiraiya). And I do like playing with and fleshing out new uses for the jutsu, and also it’s a fun canon compliant way to do some Gendery Shenanigans. But people often want to have Naruto be like… a seduction shinobi? Because boobs, I guess? And I think my annoyance with this take is that I just… dont think Naruto has the personality. He is not subtle. His entire personality would probably be considered unflattering/gross/even bitchy by the types of marks generally imagined up by these scenarios, even with the boobs. Even for the non-sex seduction-type stuff (like chatting someone up at a bar for intel), it just doesn’t really work with like… his approach to life. Like I think older Naruto could be good at buddying up to certain types of personalities, but this is entirely unlinked to any specific propensity for seduction/undercover work/etc.

(Insert long aside here about how the fandom’s obsession with sex work as a kunoichi skill is really fucking weird, and also not even how people behave.)

Anyway the third idea is that Naruto has a lot of skills developed via pranking, particularly stealth. This also isn’t really canon, although I feel it’s a reasonable extrapolation because we DO see him successfully execute pranks that must have required these skills. My only thing is that, given his attitude toward ninja training in canon, I don’t think twelve year old Naruto ever like. Consciously made the connection that his prank skills would transfer to being a ninja. I think you would have to actually tell him “pretend this is a prank” or else do sone character work to get him to this epiphany.

Anyway, those are my thoughts! 💃🏻

[writingquestionsanswered]

Fan-Fiction: "What If" Based on Canon

Anonymous asked: I'm planning on writing a fanfic that explores a what-if scenario of something in canon. Any tips or suggestions for a character revived years after his death only to discover his older brother made a robot made in his image to cope with his grief?

[Ask edited for length]

It's hard for me to give specific tips without knowing which parts are canon and which parts are the "what if" scenario, but ultimately, my advice is to just have fun with it. When you're exploring a "what if" scenario, the sky is the limit really. The important thing is to keep it as close to canon as possible within the framework of what you're changing. "What if" scenarios often allow us to explore aspects of character that aren't explored in the show, but you still want to keep it as "in character" as you possibly can under the circumstances. Even if a character hasn't gone through the exact thing you're depicting, you can still use canon to extrapolate how they might behave. Just look for canon situations that are reasonably close to what you're depicting or which offer clues as to how a character might behave. For example, maybe this character has never before been confronted by a robot made in their image by a loved one, but maybe there have been clues in canon that this character doesn't like robots and finds them to be creepy. From this we can guess they would probably find a robot made in their image--especially under those circumstances--to be especially creepy. Or, maybe this character (or any other character) has never been revived from death in canon, but perhaps there was a canon event where a character returned after a long absence, which can provide us clues for how these characters would behave in this event. Again, your goal is to just do the best you can to be faithful to the foundation canon has laid out while also taking reasonable liberties to explore the "What If" scenario.

Happy writing!

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

I’ve been writing seriously for over 30 years and love to share what I’ve learned. Have a writing question? My inbox is always open!

♦ Questions that violate my ask policies will be deleted! ♦ Please see my master list of top posts before asking ♦ Learn more about WQA here

[wishing-stones]

OH MY HOD i just thought of something

so im like, tearing up right now. and someone might come to my room and ask me ‘oh no what happened are you okay :(((’

well, point is: i am okay. im just crying because of made up scenarios i just created in my head LMAO

so i was thinking, how would the boys react to like, someone whos used to crying because of made up stories and sometimes doesnt even notice theyre crying? maybe the stars too, if thats possible?

Oh my god LMAO

Don't worry anon, you're in good company.

Killer asks you what's wrong, and then, depending on the scenario, will laugh about it (and encourage you to do the same,) or kind of laughingly croon and hold you and pat your back. He's always going to think it's funny, but won't ever make fun of you for it. Dust also prompts you for what's wrong, but if he laughs, it's out of good nature and because he thinks it's cute. He'll pat your back and rub your shoulders and tell you that maybe you should write these down, if they're such tearjerkers. Axe is on you like stink on shit if you start crying. He's worried something real is wrong, but once you tell him the story, he wibbles, too, and tells you that it's okay, and you have a right to cry about it. He might make you both hot cocoa or tea Cross gets very concerned until you tell him that it's a story. He listens with rapt attention and also gets emotional. He doesn't cry, but you can tell that he's really feeling it. Baggs is very concerned that you're crying out of the blue, but once he realizes it's over a story, he'll gently laugh it off and wipe your tears, asking you if you'd like to tell him. He listens (probably while doing something else) and offers his congratulations that you have such a vivid imagination. He also suggests you write it down. Nightmare is there before you start crying, and figures you may have hurt your own feelings. Tell him it's a story, though, and his attention is completely yours as he asks you to recite it. He doesn't... visibly react to it, but tells you that it's a wonderfully emotional story, and would welcome a continuation or extrapolation-- he'd love to read it.

Dream is concerned that something is deeply wrong, but when you tell him, he coos and cuddles you and asks that you tell him all about it. He might get leaky, too, but he tells you that you are a wonderful storyteller and encourages you to explore that talent. Ink will wonder what's up and ask, but his attention is completely yours when you start telling him. He's taking notes for you, and excitedly encourages you to continue it! He loves a good story, and he's more than happy to help with plot points or beta reading if you want! Blue is extremely concerned over your crying. He visibly is relieved when he finds out it's a story, and might... kind of shyly ask if you'd feel like sharing it, if you don't mind? It must be good to get you like that.

[fangswbenefits]

I'm sorry if this is stupid, but I have a question. So, for the asks talking about virgin tav and astarion finding out during, you mentioned him realizing because of how tight she is. Is that a thing? Like inherently better than a virgin who has done some self exploration?

I'm gonna be honest. This is absolutely stemming from catholic guilt. But it made me worried that if you've ever done self exploration with penetration, you're less of a virgin somehow and they can tell and it's not as appealing.

Which, not to say that's what you meant. To be clear this is my brain going into overdrive because I was taught to be ashamed of having a body as a woman. You didn't imply that or anything. This is pure extrapolation of thin air and guilt. But I think this is the only way to properly get an answer because if you google that, you'll find... not nice people. And I trust you far, far more.

Again, I'm so sorry if this is stupid.

I want to preface this by saying that non every woman who is a virgin has their hymen intact. Horseriding, gymnastics and so on, can tear the hymen before their first vaginal penetrative act. In this scenario, Tav would have hers intact, hence why Astarion would find this 'barrier' so to speak when trying to slide it in for the first time... it wouldn't be related to Tav's tightness.

And your ask isn't stupid at all, friend 🩷 I am more than happy to give shed some light 🫂

[snickerdoodlles]

things i would change in lita if i were in charge:

put Rain in a dorm room instead of living at home

a large part of why Phayu/Rain doesn't work for me is because we don't get to see Rain develop on his own...ever, really. he's in college, but he's living at home, living off his parents' money, still updating his mom on his where abouts like he's in high school. he goes from being closely entwined with/dependent on them to being highly dependent on Phayu. Phayu/Rain didn't come off as "Rain's making stupid and risky decisions but that's part of growing up," which i would've enjoyed, it comes off as ".....no, seriously Rain, can you make this decision?"

moving Rain into a dorm would've given him some much needed independence. even if though he would've still been reliant on his parents financially, there's still the growth that comes from being away from your parents' daily influence, managing your own space, managing your own personal well-being, etc. that would've been Rain's starting point for independent growth. vs canon, where Rain's start in independent growth was an intensely sexual relationship with a highly independent guy (nooot really anything i'm comfortable with myself). Rain can enjoy being coddled/spoiled/etc (which i like! good for him!), but the writers never gave him a chance to figure out who he was on his own, so the relationship as is doesn't land for me :/

more Phayu interacting with the garage family

i really like the glimpses of Phayu's character that we get. he has a lot of contradictions that look like so much fun to explore, but his characterization often gets shuffled to the side in favor of kink. the most interesting Phayu scenes are always the ones where it's not just him and Rain which......really sucks. the Prapai/Sky sex scenes reveal a lot about them as individual characters as well as how they interact with each other. Phayu/Rain sex scenes kinda touch on how they act together, but the main thing they do is tell me more than i want to know about the writers' personal kinks. hell, most of what Rain learns about Phayu as a person is discovered through other people--which is really annoying! i want to be learning more about this guy through his interactions with Rain, not primarily the gossip other people tell Rain. that doesn't happen until like, ep6-7, which is the literal end of their personal arc and mostly spent away from each other. sighs.

more Saifah

quality character, highly underutilized. i love his eyerolls, but the writers never really did much with him to bring him past that point :( i can extrapolate a lot, but canon developed Sig in the second half of the show more than they did Saifah for all of it. Saifah is Phayu's literal twin brother and business partner, and some random architect student got more of a character than him. this is not a complaint on Sig, i fucking adore that guy, but it's a bizarre writing choice.

more kidnapping aftermath

seriously. what the fuck. TWO kidnapping scenarios, the entire reason why i watched this show, and you guys couldn't cut out any of the 1905t59488993e repeated scenes to give me more than 2 minutes of kidnapping aftermath? who the fuck even cares about trucks driving on roads

things i would not change in lita if i were in charge:

Chai showing up to rescue Phayu and Rain wearing a zebra print shirt. sensational. 10/10, no notes

[alexhwriting]

Bloodborne: A Study of Environmental Narratives and Ludonarrative Harmony.

VI. Synthesizing Theory and Practice

To refer back to the discussion of immersion and ludonarrative harmony, Bloodborne frequently blends the contextual elements of item descriptions with the content of the game, comprised of the enemies that the player must defeat. For example, several of the names that pop up in item descriptions are available to fight as enemies, those being Laurence and Ludwig, both of whom are referenced in item descriptions and brief cutscenes within the main game. In the narrative they are treated as prominent historical figures, which adds to the impact of the player’s encounter with them. Having these important characters appear within the game properly potentially deepens the sense of immersion and ludonarrative harmony of players by blending the line between context and content. They exist as distant characters in the broader story and history of the world, adding context to what the player must do to complete the game, as well as direct obstacles to the players progression as part of the content of the gameplay.

Returning to environmental storytelling and extrapolating the concepts out of Krzywinska’s discussion of World of Warcraft, we can see the emphasis on elements within the game world that convey meaning through our understanding of them as real-world objects. Bloodborne relies heavily on these environmental objects, embedding the story of the collapsing city of Yharnam. We can see this most clearly as the player investigates the ruins of the Old Yharnam area of the game, where there are fires burning and smoke everywhere to show the desolation of the place. The colors change to have more oranges and reds, with patches of smoke blocking the player’s view around corners. The architecture looks older, and the layout involves a lot more vertical movement on stairs and ladders compared to the earlier game areas. The door to Old Yharnam is marked with a sign that tells the player they are not wanted there, and the warning follows an NPC shouting at the player that they should leave. Ultimately that NPC follows the player around the area, shooting a stream of bullets from a gatling gun.  We can see this environmental storytelling of signage and desolation turn to ludonarrative harmony with the engagement of the NPC and the gameplay of avoiding the bullets of his gatling gun.

The harmony of themes and gameplay is most obvious in the Cathedral ward, where the player faces a descent into a dark pit to progress, the light of the area only dimly showing the platforms that can be landed on to make it to the bottom of the pit. In the best-case scenario, the player will land at the bottom having taken most of their health bar in damage if they are not killed by the fall. Since this area must be traversed to progress to the rest of the area, it emphasizes the theme of the game, that progress is painful and that the characters do not always know where progress will lead them. In this case, progress is represented by the fall, with landings obscured by darkness. This area in particular stands out for its use of ludonarrative harmony, the gameplay of exploration and taking damage reinforces the themes of the game. Progress, in the world of Bloodborne, is always painful, and knowledge always comes at a cost. In this area, that is unavoidably true.

Through all of these examples, these elements work in cohesion to produce feelings of immersion and ludonarrative harmony by blending the storytelling done through items and the environment with the active elements of playing the game and defeating enemies. This matters as it is part of the draw of Bloodborne, a game that does not outright tell the player a story but remains an immersive and compelling experience. It is also important to the concept of ludonarrative harmony that it can be achieved without an ever-present textual element in the form of dialogue. Rather than a phenomenon with precise contributing factors, ludonarrative harmony acts as a sweet spot of intersection that gives the player an immersive experience.

[nemaliwrites]

So I wanted to ask about the new Big Bang fic you're coming out with, "In Pursuit of the Uneatable". I've really liked most of your other ML fics (as you well know), so I was thinking of checking it out, but well… the premise makes me wary, since it's one of those "Lila manages to isolate Marinette using her lies" premises. But I did notice that instead of talking about Marinette's friends "turning on her" or otherwise trying to hurt her in some way, you're just talking about them becoming distant, which is something I could feasibly see happening if Lila managed to sow enough doubt about Marinette's motives and actions. They'd never hurt her (everyone thinks of Chloe as a bully and they don't try to hurt HER, and I don't think that's just because of the potential of her father retaliating), but being a little more leery of her is possible if they aren't as certain of her moral character as they used to be.

And I also saw that you didn't mention anything about like, Marinette trying to get revenge of any sort against other people or leaving them to rot or anything, which makes me think it might not be that sort of fic? The vibe I'm getting from the synopsis you gave is that the main reason you went with the "Lila's lies manage to isolate Marinette" thing is to explore how she copes with not having a very stable support network (since in the show she has a huge, solid one, even with Lila's best efforts at sabotaging it), and to have Adrien serve as her main support until Lila's beaten, rather than to specifically demonize everyone in Marinette's orbit and have her take sadistic pleasure in hurting them in revenge.

That's really the crux of my question and my fear, I guess. Nothing in your previous works made it look like you'd be likely to go this route, but I really need to know before I chance glancing at your fic: are Marinette's friends, the class more generally, gonna be made to be awful people beyond anything that could be reasonably extrapolated out about them? Is Marinette gonna seek revenge or punishment for them for believing Lila's lies? Basically, are they gonna get "Ron the Death Eatered", if you're familiar with that tvtropes term? I've gotten pretty traumatized from running into that over and over in the ML fandom (and no, I'm not kidding about the trauma here, it's gotten really bad at times), so while I see lots of signs that this is gonna be a lot more reasonable than say, the "Alya strangles Marinette for being mean to Lila" or "Marinette intentionally arranges for Lila to be in a position to sexually harass Adrien as revenge for him advising her to take the high road" scenarios that I've seen in the past, I still want to check since I instinctively flinch when I see anything anything even remotely in the ballpark of a saltfic premise due to seeing those sorts of things incessantly for years.

Totally get your hesitation! As someone who generally isn't a fan of saltfics/bashing either, I understand being wary.

I will say that your read of the summary is an accurate one. This fic definitely will focus more on Marinette's mental state than anything else, and it is more of a "Marinette isolates herself from everyone on purpose" rather than Lila shoving her out.

I don't want to be like "oh i wrote all the characters perfectly" because....obvious reasons LOL but I made sure to give the other characters reasons for acting as they do. I know you're an Alya fan, so I will say that nothing bad happens to Alya and even Marinette never really blames her for believing Lila's lies - and the same for their other classmates as well. It's a lot more of Marinette blaming herself, I think, hence the unreliable narrator tag, but she does have a charitable view of her classmates. Instead of blaming them for listening to Lila, she'll still acknowledge the fact that they're her friends too, and them caring about Lila doesn't mean they still don't care about her.

More than the bullying/lying, I think this fic also explores ideas that are a bit different. Not to get too into spoiler territory, but it deals pretty heavily with sentimonter-esque creation, and the biggest thing for Marinette is understanding what it means to be human - and in that process, realizing that Lila, too, is just as human as she is. So more introspection/character study territory than "oh Lila sucks and she's going down'.

But yes, to answer your question: no revenge on her classmates, and no bashing/saltfics here!

[thrandilf]

I'm willing to read most shadowpeach fics even if they are pretty ooc (I have a limit of ooc, but it's pretty wide) but fics I can't read are ones where macaque is just now in modern times meeting wukong. Like I'm sorry, but macaque would be a completely different person if he never met wukong. So wildly different that a macaque acting like macaque breaks my suspension of belief, and a macaque acting like he should in that scenario isn't my macaque anymore by any metric (might as well be an OC)

I sat here for a bit wondering how to say that I haven't actually found any Shadowpeach fics I like that I haven't written myself without sounding horridly self absorbed/picky but it's where I'm at

To be clear, I've only been in fandom for a few months and I haven't looked all that hard, I'm sure out of the 8k or so on ao3 there are absolute gems, just haven't found em. I'm open to recs! but I'm in fandom for characterization and specific dynamics which drew me to the characters in the first place, so you've got the biggest lead on me for not being picky/coming off as judgy, anon hahaha

In that circumstance you laid out I'd also wonder who Wukong would even be. He's influenced by his past relationships just as much, even if he isn't as overt about it as Macaque/he's had a wider range of influence since Macaque is more Wukong centered than vice versa, it would still be Different.

Fic of them in early or pre brotherhood would be really interesting! Or in this AU- a Macaque full out reincarnation would be fascinating if LBD hadn't brought him back. Like, that could be interesting, but their history is such a core part, even as obscured as some of it is to us right now, that I'd have a hard time trying to untangle it and make it feel like them. It would still have to be History on Wukong's end for me or too many pieces are gone from the jenga tower yfm

I'm also someone who writes canon compliant or adjacent stuff Most of the time, where I like to extrapolate and kind of take the edges of the picture and expand, like a degree removed from canon/plausible, but not putting people in totally different worlds or altering major canon events. Hell, I don't even make OCs for fics unless my arm is twisted by necessity (my novel length tdp fic has some OCs because I needed more characters for the mains to meet in the world/filling in vacuums left by foreign leaders being killed, said OCs are still as minor as I can make them while being hopefully interesting and serving their purpose)

However, I know that a majority of fandom really loves totally new AUs in other worlds/making OCs (LMK fandom is especially OC heavy which was a surprise to me) and that's its own writing exercise/source of fun, it's just one I've never had a desire to read or write. Canon for me is fun to explore more of canon potential, not to fuel something seemingly unrelated

As I said, I'm picky. I typically don't even read modern AUs for fantasy characters, it just so happens that LMK works so well that I love the futuristic world and get my magic meets technology kicks in canon, otherwise I wouldn't have anything written in remotely modern day within the past few years. LMK got me back into it

So I hear you about characterization/I probably sound like I live a stifled existence but I just thrive by being as close to canon as I can while playing with it, my most fun is different from others on the fan spectrum

And all this isn't to say that I feel like an expert in characterizing Macaque and Wukong- they're tough cases to crack. They're challenging. They both have their facades and levels of jadedness and sincerity. LMK requires flat out studying to really nail anyone I've found, even characters I feel more confident in writing- and that challenge is part of the draw for me too!

[incandescentflower]

I have started writing a Wandee Goodday fic but every time I work on it a little more I think - oh tomorrow's gonna give me more info - and then I click away from the doc.

There's so many things I want to explore in terms of character motivations and what they could be thinking. I personally think what we have been given is lacking a little in both of their povs.

But it might come! and soon! and ugh I can't wait. gib.

Worst case scenario I'll just fill in all the smut like I did with Up the Ante alkfsjdasl;da They are already clearly a little kinky and deserve some good smut.

I think I'm a little impatient since the last fandom I wrote was Cherry Magic and I had been so familiar with those characters it was easy to extrapolate how the Thai version might be a little different and then write fic early on.

I miss the comfort of feeling like those characters are *mine,* but I also immensely enjoy getting to know new ones.