#it’s because of odysseus’s love for penelope

[onlymimiwastaken]

Warrior Penelope stuff cause I've been listening to too many EPIC genderbent covers, and I wanted to give my take on it (also cuz I kinda want to draw it one day)

- Ares as Penelope's patron, absolutely! But Ares was never too worshipped in Greece, not even in Sparta (no one kinda gave a shit about him except for during war and thought he was kinda gross). So my lore take version thing is that ATHENA wanted to be Penelope's patron (she had already an eye on Ody kinda) but Ares saw his chance, got to it first and became attached to Penelope without wanting to admit it, also because she saw the good and useful in him. Athena still watches over Penelope (especially after her and Ares platonically break up, which she finds really stupid) and is the one who does her best to protect Ithaca while she's gone. She's by Ody's side while he misses his wife and is mostly the reason why the Suitors hadn't taken over yet.

- To get Ares to realize his mistake, Athena tricks him into helping Telemachus defeat Antinous in Little Wolf because free bloodshed, only to end up sensitized by Telemachus because holy shit, my friend's son is here almost dying to this ASSHOLE who thinks he's so much stronger than MY friend the queen and even me like who tf does he think he is. Athena makes Ares fucking rational for once. And maybe even Aphrodite, as well, gets some damn sense in his mind like "they love each other like you and I and my girl is doing her best to get home you're going to apologize rn"

- ctimene holds a claymore double her height with no problems

- penelope is more "cold ruthless" than Odysseus, in a way that she's still poised (until the end or when she's really brought to her knees which is disturbing) while doing merciless stuff. She's emotionless a lot more (just on the surface)

- Ares was the one to give Penelope the idea of going to war instead of Odysseus, for obvious reasons. And Pen is really a mastermind among the Greeks ofc

- Ares and Pen fought in their My Goodbye version because she "held back her power while her friends got devoured" "she didn't even fight Polyphemus, didn't even TRY to kill him" "hid behind her wits to get things done". Because when fighting Polyphemus, she knew that if she tried to kill Polyphemus while he was asleep, they'd be stuck in that cave forever (like in the real Odyssey). And knew that fighting while her friends got killed would slow them down and probably get more people dead. And when they ran away, she didn't go back to kill the Cyclops even if she could've because of yes, mercy, but also because she would've awakened all the other Cyclops and sailing away was faster, better. Ares deemed this cowardice. Crazy thing, since one of the most important things to him is courage.

- Ares overstimates Penelope's power. Like, yes, she's exceptional, but still HUMAN. With her limits. He hasn't dealt with a human personally in years so he doesn't understand this, so his expectations are ridiculously high, which ends up breaking Penelope.

- During 600 strike, Penelope can actually breathe underwater and not hold her breath for such a long time and be fine because she's half naiad (yes, they are fresh water nymphs but still). Also this may make her even stronger around water (to a certain degree, she's still very mortal)

- calypso is pansexual

this is already a lot, ill add more when i think about it lol (also if i realize any of these ideas don't make sense)

[just-my-life365]

Do you think in Suffering when the siren mistakes Telemachus for Odysseus’s daughter instead of his son it’s because when she peeks into his mind, she sees Telemachus as Ody last saw him, and he was a baby that looked just like Penelope? And the siren went yup, baby’s basically a mini of its mom, must be a girl.

And then as he matures, Telemachus begins to look more and more like his dad. So when Odysseus gets back its total whiplash because what happened to his mini Penelope?

In Odysseus’s mind, when he thinks of how his son must look he has his mothers face, her eyes and her smile, her gentleness and strength.

And Penelope gets to watch her son grow up to be the spitting image of his dad and it’s so wonderful and so heartbreaking because it makes her miss him even more

It’s a little bit torturous for both of them but they also treasure him because they always so wanted their son to be a little version of the one they love most

[eddwardharrison]

Tell us... Which Tsams characters do you think, would fit in the Epic the Musical: God Games?

Heh…you utter FOOL..

THERE IS A BIAS HERE THAT CAN BE SWAPPED OUT— I’LL EXPLAIN IT AT THE END PORTION.

KEEP IN MIND, THESE ARE ONLY FOR THIS SONG. THEY CAN CHANGE ROLES IN OTHER SONGS.

Sun as Odysseus

struggling at the island by Miku Calypso while trying to get back home to Ithica. Penelope may just be Roxanne… BUT SUN IS OUR ABSENT CHARACTER BEING SPOKEN UPON

Athena as ECLIPSE

(VINEBOOM.)

due to their war and independency similarities. I believe the backstory for Athena, splitting Zues’ head open, and then losing to a sewing contest and turning a girlie into the first Arachnid is also pretty Eclipse core. But for the song specifically, his constant fighting, persuasion, logical reasoning, and lazy dancing fits his personality as he goes through each god, trying to convince him that “Hey, that guy I already gave up on…I kinda stopped giving up on. And I’d hate to see the training I gave him wasted.” Athena’s near-death-then-revival at the end also plays in to his involuntary immortality and ignorant persistence. He’d be in so much pain by the end that— YEAH, HE /WOULD/ BE BEGGING ZUES TO LET SUN GO.

Zues as KILLCODE

Killcode, known as Eclipse’s father in canon lore, being the most intimidating and “superior” claiming, a man who gives birth to gods, etc. Also it would fit the rage at the end of the song, with Killcode using his strength and size and above all else, a short fuse, to beat the snot out of Eclipse. YIKES!!

Apollo as RUIN

Ruin…his silly little self would absolutely LOVE songs. The kindness and consideration Apollo sings with in this song just SCREAMS Ruin. He would absolutely ADORE the Sirens too, murdering them off like Odysseus/Sun did would be a big frown for him.

Hephaestus as DARK SUN

SOLSTICE AKA DARK SUN. There’s a joke that goes around where Hephaestus’ name call was to get his attention off his work, I think that idea really fits with this song. I’d like to imagine he also forgot his name was “Dark Sun” when they announce it, so it takes him a second to react. (Because he’s just…y’know, “Sun”.) Dark Sun is not one for sacrificing close friends, so that would be right to the character.

Aphrodite as PUPPET

Puppet. Puppet would certainly hold grudges against those who let others get harmed and the harm is not justified…sorry guys…mama in Epic would…be…Earth…for the song “The Underworld” in The Underworld Saga…She would be one to make her mind up immediately, but after some persuasion and bargaining, she would listen.

Ares as MONTGOMERY GATOR

Ares brute force and immediate attack with Eclipse in the song, duking it out before Eclipse makes him eat his words AND his fists. The yelling and need for justice fits perfectly into Monty’s revenge thirsty self. He would also love to get the chance to beat Eclipse to a pulp…this is his opportunity.

Hera as EVIL EARTH

(Evil) Earth. She’d just be so silly! She’d be dancing around on the dance floor, absolutely pleased with herself while waiting for a rational and understandable reason to let Sun go. Eclipse would…definitely struggle. He doesn’t like Sun too much anyways, but eventually pulls out a damn good reason to which Evil Earth dives for instantly. Eclipse would also be so poorly dancing in the background…just like rocking side to side and calling that “dancing”

OPTION 2’S

• Eclipse and Dark Sun can switch roles. Dark Sun is #1 Sun defender… (This was my bias, I just wanted Eclipse to be Athena <\3)

• Lunar could be Apollo, but I believed Ruin fit better.

• You could technically assign all the Stars to them, but I thought this would be more fun. However, if you did…Taurus as Zues (swappable with Leo), Nebula as Aphrodite, Pollux as Apollo, Castor as Hephaestus, Leo as Ares (swappable with Taurus), I don’t remember (if there are) the other star signs. BWOMPPP!!

• Ares as NEXUS?? Maybe…

⬇️

NONE OF THESE GOD’S MYTH RELATIONSHIPS ARE TIED IN WITH THE CHARACTERS I’VE ASSIGNED. THIS IS JUST FOR SILLY DAYDREAMING IDEAS!! :]]

If these get used…please tag me or like..mention me or something..i…i wanna see……..🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺

[tamaruaart]

I get people think it's cute that in the underworld Polites could hold the infant Astyanax. But hmm I don't know. I think it's much better and holds so much more weight if either hector or andromache, specifically andromache held Astyanax. Firstly, because that's his mother. Second, because andromache is ALSO a character Odysseus screwed over. who knows maybe he even saw a glimpse of Penelope holding infant Telemachus in that visage. I just don't see polites as someone who's worth holding the infant, and I DON'T mean that as an insult but polites is a complete stranger that Astyanax never even got the chance to meet. Whereas Andromache is his literal mother. And also I would love it as a kind of Trojan war reference

[fairytale-luka]

More on Aphrodite as Odysseus mentor( The Warrior of The Heart AU) / (sorry if anything is missed spelled or the grammar is wrong)

This is about God Games, there was some changes that I mentioned but I’m going to expand on it more

Apollos trial is still mostly the same about the sirens. But Aphrodite fights back that the siren were using Penelope face to trick Odysseus

Hephaestus is replaced by Hermes, there is actually not much of a trial here. Hermes is just making pointless arguments and it’s quite easy for Aphrodite to counteract

Next, would be Circe since it couldn’t be Aphrodite. Circe argument is about Odysseus sacrificing his men despite fighting her to get them back(during the Circe Saga).

Aphrodite tries to counteract that he was forced to choose between himself and his men.(She’s used her Instant Love on Circe like Athena did with Aphrodite with her ‘Quick Thought)

That’s when Athena, who takes Ares place comes in. Athena argues about Odysseus failing to make smart decisions and that his son is just as foolish as he is.

Aphrodite is angered by this, she mangers to fight back and wins. Athena is impressed by Aphrodite winning and agrees for Odysseus release

(Also would like to mention that Athena and Circe have something going in. They may or may not be queerplatonic partners)

Hera is the same, nothing changed because I love this part too much to change it

The showed down Zeus is mostly the same for Aphrodite(sorry girlie :/). Aphrodite will does get injured like Athena did in the canon animatics.

But you may be asking, where is Ares in all this? Well, he was off doing something and comes back to find his wife injured by his father

(These are just some ideas, feel fair to change or add anything. Also once again, if you would like to create anything about this, please credit me)

[autumnmobile12]

Epic the Musical: Not Sorry For Loving You

Regarding the debate about Rivera-Herrans' choice in writing Odysseus as sympathetic to Calypso and telling her he loves her even though she trapped him on her island for seven years...I may have some context.

And I’m really hesitant in posting this because I know the ‘Calypso was Odysseus’ lover or abuser’ debate is a volatile subject. I guess what I’m saying is please be kind.  I don’t want to fight about this, but I do want to provide some insight with what I know about Greek mythology.

...

My guess is the song was largely inspired by this conversation between Calypso and Odysseus in the original Odyssey. (Abridged because the full text is too long to be concise):

“…Kalypso the goddess thus began: ‘Son of Laertes, subtle Odysseus--so then, your mind is firmly set on returning now without delay to your home and country? Go then, and joy go with you, in spite of all. Yet if you knew--if you fully knew--what miseries are fated to fill your cup before you attain your own land, you would choose to stay here, to join with me in calm possession of this domain, to be beyond reach of death…”

Subtle Odysseus answered her: ‘Goddess and queen, do not make this a cause of anger with me. I know the truth of everything you say; …. Yet, not withstanding, my desire and longing day by day is still to reach my own home and see the day of my return. And if this or that divinity should shatter my craft on the wine-dark ocean, I will bear it and keep a bold heart within me. Often enough before this time have war and wave oppressed and plagued me; let new tribulations join the old.’ -The Odyssey, Homer, trans. by Shewring.

…

In this conversation, we see Calypso asking Odysseus if he’s sure he wants to leave her and return to Ithaka, and that he would have an easier life if he remained with her forever immortal. And he asks her not to be angry/hurt and that whatever lies ahead on his journey, he’ll face it bravely. (Choosing a simple life but a life of obscurity as opposed to returning to hardship and being remembered as a stalwart hero.)

Giving this the context of the Ancient Greek cultural lens, Odysseus and Calypso were lovers.  The above conversation is immediately followed up with this:

So he spoke; and the sun sank and darkness came; then the pair withdrew, and in a recess of the arching cavern they took their pleasure in love, and did not leave one another's side.  -The Odyssey, Homer, trans. by Shewring.

Yes, Calypso trapped Odysseus on her island for seven years and by today’s standards, that's gonna be a huge yikes.  But their ‘lovers’ dynamic becomes easier to understand when you look at the wider collection of Greek myth stories and remember that what we consider a lovers’ relationship by today’s standards is practically nonexistent in this genre and if there is 'love,' it’s probably closer to what we’d recognize as Stockholm Syndrome and so on.

Look at Hera and Zeus’ eternal marital problems.

Jason the Argonaut just setting aside his wife Medea so he can marry another princess.

Helen of Sparta either willingly left Menelaus or Paris kidnapped her, depending on which version you hear.

Theseus abandoning Ariadne and then she marries Dionysus almost immediately after he stumbles across her.

Hades kidnapping Persephone, even in modern retellings where they form a mutual love.

I think the closest we can get to a romantic love story in Greek mythology is possibly Perseus’ rescuing of Princess Andromeda because that has more of the classic ‘hero saves princess from monster, they get married, happily ever after’ trope we're familiar with in fairy tales.

Even Odysseus’ marriage to Penelope calls consent into question because he technically demanded her as payment for helping her uncle, King Tyndareus, out of a difficult situation.

Getting back to the song and Epic: The Musical, the tone of the original text does give the impression that Odysseus is sympathetic for leaving, and I think Rivera-Herrans is trying to reconcile that because he portrays Odysseus as a faithful husband and that clashes with the Greek portrayal where Odysseus and Calypso were lovers in the poem, hence Odysseus giving a more heartfelt goodbye than Calypso may deserve. I go into the original story a bit more with this post.

It’s not a bad portrayal of Odysseus and I do like that Rivera-Herrans chose to resolve the toxic masculinity of the original story. Women in Greek mythology, especially if they’re mortal, are more often than not little more than a plot device while the men get the glory. That said, I think if Rivera-Herrans really wanted Calypso to be a sympathetic figure to his audience, it might have been better suited if he'd referred to the poet Hesiod’s version of events where she held Odysseus prisoner because Poseidon commanded her do it.  He could have easily spun her story as,

“Forgive me, I can’t disobey the sea god.”

That option would have robbed her of free will as much as Odysseus and we could have gotten more on board with pitying her for her loneliness when he leaves, and it would have still preserved Poseidon's role as the villain of the musical. As it stands, the ‘playful but socially clueless’ demeanor he gave Calypso only works if she detained Odysseus a day or two. Seven years of drawing that out is a little much and portrays Calypso as a foolish girl and not as the ‘mighty and beautiful’ goddess she’s described as, by Odysseus himself, in the original.

But that's me.

[thesafireartist]

WHAT IF: Polites didn’t die?

An EPIC angst fic by my little brother

“What do we do, captain?” A crew mate shouted. “Captain?!”

SPLAT!

The crew ran frantically different directions. One by one, they got smashed by the cyclop’s spiked club.

A blood bath.

Polyphemus headed towards Polites.

His eyes shaken with fear.

“NOOOO!” Someone shouted as Polyphemus raised his club.

He sprinted and dove into the club.

The person stabbed the club into Polyphemus’s chest while inpaling himself in the process. A midnight black gooey substance oozed out of his heart.

The cyclop’s evil yellow eye dimmed. Polites was alive but at what cost.

“Odysseus? Was that you?!” Polites screamed.

“No,” Odysseus replied.

“Then WHO?!” Polites shouted.“Perimedes? Ajax?! Diamedes?”

All the crew answered in unison.

“No.”

But the last name was called.

“Eurylochus?”

No one answered.

Polites ran over to the body. Eurylochus, lying on the cave’s floor. Polites’ eyes lit up in horror.

…

“Guys, Circe told me the only way to find home is in the Underworld,” Odysseus told the crew. “Some sort of prophet that will tell us the way home or something.”

“Who’s Circe?” Polites asked Odysseus.

“Just a witch.”

“She didn’t try to make any moves right?”

“She did, but she didn’t know my secret power: The Power of Resisting And Being Unlike Other Greeks Because I Actually Care For My Wife!”

“Man I wish more Greeks had that ability,” Polites said.

Polites walked down to the bottom floor.

“Dude I will never eat bacon again.” One of the crewmates shivered.

He chuckled.

…

“You’re Odysseus, King of Ithaca,” the prophet said.

“And you’re a dead prophet,” Ajax laughed.

Polites jabbed him in the shoulder.

“Dude.”

“I was joking!” Ajax attempted to defend himself.

“I just need to inform you guys, there’s a world where I don’t help you get home.” The prophet warned the group.

“Everyone shut up,” Odysseus demanded.

The crew went silent.

“The trip home is no easy task…” the prophet began.

…

A ship docked at the Kingdom of Ithaca.

Queen Penelope ran towards the ship, crying tears of joy.

Little did she know only one person came out.

Polites.

“Polites, where’s Ody?” She asked.

His expression while talking was bland and dull.

“In the Lair of Scylla... ‘This is your only way home.’” Polites whimpered. “He told me to give you this letter.”

He handed a rugged letter.

Dear Penelope,

I wrote this letter just in case I don’t think it back home.

The road has been a long journey and I wouldn’t be surprised if something turned out wrong.

The good news this letter is we won the war. But I will always think of that victory as a mistake in my life because I never got to spend time with my family.

I just wanted to say that I truly love you. Even in the underworld. Always and forever.

Show this letter to Telemachus once he’s of age. Tell him his dad is alright. Tell him he shouldn’t worry. And tell him his dad is proud of him.

Love, Odysseus

Penelope finished reading and bursted into floods of tears. The dark night sky grew darker.

@your-ne1ghbor @the-tech-turn @spectator-zee @theboredasexual @morallydeadlizard

Do ya'll want to see a piece of EPIC angst my little brother wrote

[ghostvibesonly]

THERE ARE OTHER WAYS DID NOT GO WHERE I WAS EXPECTING IT TO OH MY GOD /POS

PENELOPE’S THEME AND INSTRUMENT?? ODYSSEUS BEING QUITE LITERALLY BACKED INTO A CORNER AND HAVING SEEMINGLY NO OTHER WAY TO SAVE HIS MEN BUT STILL NOT BEING ABLE TO BRING HIMSELF TO GO THROUGH WITH THE ACT (EVEN THO IT WOULDN’T BE A TRUE ACT OF BETRAYAL BECAUSE THERE’S NO ACTUAL CONSENT ON HIS SIDE AND IT WAS SOMETHING HE WAS ABOUT TO BE COERCED INTO)??? CIRCE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BEFORE AND BELIEVING THAT “BECOMING THE PUPPETEER” IS THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP HERSELF AND HER NYMPHS SAFE SO SHE OFFERS THIS “ACT OF PASSION” TO STILL HAVE A FORM OF CONTROL, AND THEN SEEING ODYSSEUS IS NOT LIKE THOSE BEFORE BECAUSE HE’S SO IN LOVE WITH PENELOPE (WHO HE HASN’T SEEN IN 12 YEARS) THAT HE REFUSES HER OFFER AND PLEADS BECAUSE IT’S NOT WORTH IT EVEN THO THATS THE ONLY OPTION HE’S BEEN GIVEN??? HIM CALLING HIMSELF A PUPPET MAKING HER REALIZE THAT THIS CYCLE OF ABUSE AND CONTROL ISN’T WORTH IT ONLY TO COME TO A MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE SHE KNOWS WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE TRULY IN LOVE AND TO BE HURT, SO SHE OFFERS HIM AN ACT OF KINDNESS INSTEAD???

“Maybe showing one act of kindness leads to kinder souls down the road”

[artiquar]

my dear penelope, we've twenty lost years of love to make up for.

[wolfythewitch]

To add onto to what I mentioned about aroace stuff, I think it's just in general. sometimes I look at ships and I don't get why they like each other? Like I think it's cute but when I think about it a little bit, I don't really understand it fundamentally. That could either be a product of being aroace, raised heavily religious and conservative, or a weird concoction of all three lmao

I think this is part of the reason why my favorite pairings are usually already established/married. Otherwise I just! Don't understand

[australet789]

How many times do i have to say Odysseus is my babygirl, meaning he is a pathetic wet man who fucked around and found out so hard he made himself a name out of it

[haze-of-hyperfixations]

a concept. to consider. what if. what if there was a Remember Them reprise after the Thunder Saga. "We are not to let them die in vain" except he's the only one left so it's "I am not to let them die in vain." and there's no backing chorus of his men. because. they're all dead.

and the line takes on a whole new meaning now that he's the one who chose to let them die.

(not in vain. it can't have been in vain, it can't have been for nothing. i have to see her. i have to see her, because if i don't make it home, those men died for nothing. the ends always justify the means. i can justify anything as long as it ends with Penelope and Telemachus both in my arms again. but if it doesn't-

but it will. it will. it has to.)

and our- ... -and my comrades will not die in vain...

[dootznbootz]

Hi. I'm cyberbullying a long dead poet because of his shitty fanfic. Enjoy. I'd love it if you joined me.

(Before you get mad at me, yes, I know Eugammon of Cyrene is an important figure and all that. I'm sick with some sort of flu. Let me cyberbully an ancient dead fanfic writer in peace.)

[idiotwhotalkstoomuch]

Ngl I'm pretty weirded out by depictions of Circe that make her characterization as motherly when her myths are *reads notes on hand*

Turning Scylla into a monster because she was jealous her lover liked her.

Making Odysseus sleep with her after turning his men to swine and discovering he took moly.

Turned Picus, a married man, into a woodpecker because he said no to her sexual advances.

[zarnzarn]

(check the tags for more and also the tag for other fics in the story!)

athena, scowling as she gets bullied into marrying the people she pined over for the last 1000 years, suddenly realising something: wait a minute

odysseus: what?

athena, frozen: wait a damn minute you know what this gives me rights to do

penelope, also realising: oh fuck yes

odysseus: I don't like the sound of whatever's happening here what are you two fucking talking about?

athena, grabbing the marriage wine and tossing it back, then kissing her new wife and husband and handing penelope a spear as she picks up a mace: we'll be back shortly, you can start celebrations without us.

penelope: do u have anything that can start a fire

athena, pulling out an old contract and scanning it before throwing it over her shoulder: yes. are you scared of heights or can we fly.

penelope: fucking bring it I've waited years for this moment

zeus: where are they going

hermes, picking up the contract: they're going to... Ogygia? Oh fucking shit they're going to fucking kill Calypso- hey, hello, WAIT-

[backpackingspace]

I am once again thinking about how odysseus who witnessed the horrors that the captured women went through (one of his main duties in the iliad was taking the women back home and making sure they were as comfortable as possible and safe because he was the only one trusted not to violate them further due to his devotion to penelope. And in the odyssey part of the reason circe sent him to the underworld was so that he'd have to listen to all these women's stories (before he could talk to the prophet) ). Who was one of the few that saw women as people and respected their space and opinions. And was then put in those exact same situations. I don't have the motivation right now to do a full literary analysis of this (I'll site the sources too) but oh man one day I'm going to write a full essay on this.