#it’s always about casting people of that ethnicity to play characters of the same ethnicity

[a-very-tired-jew]

The irony of anti-Zionists being upset by an Israeli Jew portraying Mary in the upcoming Netflix movie, but not by Anthony Hopkins portraying Herod is quite telling.

[kianamaiart]

how do you feel about people who aren't of the same race as that character voicing that character? Also since you work in the cartoon industry and have gone through the voice acting hiring process yourself, is there some sort of code that says its discrimination if you say "only people who fit into this group/all these groups should apply"? (asking this in good faith i hope it is clear. This is really hard to phrase. To make where I'm coming from more clear, while I doubt i would ever get the chance to do what you're doing, if this one comic I make was ever turned into a cartoon, its very important to me for example that the main character who is a non-binary Chinese-American Jew be portrayed by someone as close to that identity as possible. Because to me, there are limited chances for some people to portray themselves wholly on the screen, let alone at all, and to take that opportunity away would be wrong. And I just remember as a(n older) kid it made me even happier when i'd find out people voicing the rare characters who share parts of my identity actually WERE of that identity. But on the other hand, putting more and more restrictions means less and less people can audition and there is such a small chance the perfect person will even find the role. And also I'm not sure if this counts as discrimination in hiring legal code.

it's tricky for sure! in a perfect world, it shouldn't matter, but there's a history of marginalized people being, well, marginalized and denied work for usually white voice actors who can do an impression.

i think there should be a push to get more marginalized voice actors to voice characters like them but also characters that aren't! let actors be actors

You're right in that the more specific the identity, the smaller the pool of actors. and in that case, i think it's good to put in the effort to find people who identify with the role as closely as possible, even if it's not 100%. aika's black/japanese ethnicity, for example, is based off of my own heritage but she's played by anairis quinones, a black/puerto rican voice actor. i felt comfortable casting this way because i feel like at least on my end, i can write aika accurate to my own experience and make sure anything having to do with her identity is handled with care. and i very much trust anairis to understand! and although they're not japanese, they do have an understanding of what it means to be black and queer, which aika also is.

it's a case by case thing for sure but i'm always down to uplift marginalized actors!

[olderthannetfic]

Does the way people talk about this new Snow White live action make anyone else uncomfortable? It's making me uncomfortable. I watched it, didn't like it. There are many things you can criticize, like the CGI but people have a weird fixation on the main actress. Is Snow White being played by a poc that much of an issue? I would like a new show about fairytales that are less known and are related to poc but this is what we are getting. And it's not like anyone is being forced to watch. I see people who like whitewashed artworks of poc characters getting mad about this. Like at least don't be a hypocrite (it's the acotar fandom :/)

Disney live actions are not good in general but it seems people still don't know the difference between criticizing and insulting.

--

This kind of thing is always a flashpoint for bigoted lunacy stemming from "But that was my wish fulfillment self insert!!!"

TBH, I find it pretty tedious how girls are encouraged to need a wish fulfillment character with their same hair and eye color, never mind ethnicity, but in that environment, it's hardly surprising that people are titanically invested in the casting of such movies. The racist flavor is just a particularly gross expression of a larger pattern.

And then there's the general culture war, bawwww, it's hard being white these days types who fixate on fairy tales and Disney as ~traditional culture~ that's being eroded by wokeism.

[scarlet--wiccan]

Hello, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the TV show "Interview with the Vampire," but there's a character named Armand, portrayed by a South Asian actor. I'm curious if Armand's character could have been Romani in the series. His character was called G(slur), and I can't recall any other details that suggest he was Romani. I watched the show a long time ago, so my memory is hazy.

I have watched Interview with the Vampire. I'm actually a really big fan of the series, and Armand is one my favorite characters.

In the TV series, Armand is played Assad Zaman, who is an English actor of Bangladeshi descent. In the Vampire Chronicle books, Armand was born in the 15th century near Kyiv, and was trafficked to Venice as a child and sold into slavery. In the TV series, his birthplace is changed to Delhi, but the rest of his backstory is mostly the same. In season 2, episode 3, Armand meets Lestat and his former lover, Nicolas, for the first time in 16th century Paris, and Nicolas refers to him, in a derogatory tone, as a gypsy.

Neither the actor nor the character are actually Romani, and I want to emphasize, again, that Roma are not interchangeable with South Asian peoples. Our ethnic and cultural identities are distinct. Casting non-Roma Asian actors to play Romani roles would still not be appropriate, nor is it appropriate to headcanon or interpret a character as Romani just because they are played by an Asian actor.

Many Romani viewers have noted that Armand's history and the circumstances of his life do parallel aspects of Romani history-- the diaspora arrived in Europe around the same time and were subjected to slavery and trafficking in many of the same regions. This experience is not unique to the Roma, but by having a character specifically profile Armand as a "gypsy", the show is asking the viewer to consider those parallels, and use them to infer what kinds of racism and violence Armand would have experienced during that time. If nothing else, I think it makes sense for Nicolas-- as a white and, presumably, ignorant or prejudiced French person in that time period-- to use the word "gypsy" in that way towards someone who looks like Armand.

There is a lot of orientalism to how Anne Rice depicts Armand, even as a textually white character, in the original books. I think that, similar to how Louis and Claudia were reimagined as Black characters, making Armand Asian allows the show to recontextualize those fraught racial and cultural themes in a way that is more incisive, and hopefully, insightful. It's not always perfect, but it's a big part of what makes this adaptation fresh and powerful.

As a gay Romani person, I do find Armand's history to be particularly resonant, especially when it comes to his experiences as an art model and apprentice, which go hand-in-hand with his experiences as a victim of sex trafficking. There is a long history of exploitative Romani depictions in the Western fine arts canon, particularly during the Renaissance, when Armand was in Venice. Given that context, the way that Armand talks about his identity being erased by history while his image is immortalized in paint brought up a lot of really powerful feelings for me.

That's just one, but I think that the character can, and does, reflect Romani experiences, particularly for this place and time in history-- and again, the show is directly inviting viewers to consider that fact. Still, that does not equate actual representation, and I don't think that we should position this character as a literal Romani depiction.

[lottieswidow]

I wanna discuss something in regards to the cultural identity of Travis because of some comments that I’ve gotten on my posts that refer to Travis speaking Spanish. In no way do I wanna disregard anyone’s opinions and I would love to hear what yall would like to say about this! (And maybe I’m bringing up something tiny but I rly need some clarification especially from the other Latinos within this fandom)

We all know that Kevin Alves is Brazilian and speaks Portuguese and many people take that as Travis Martinez also being Brazilian and can speak Portuguese as well, but (and maybe I’m biased as a Mexican with the last name Martinez) I have always seen Travis as Mexican.

And I guess what I’m really trying to get at is why didn’t the show runners cast a Mexican actor or make the character’s family Brazilian if they knew from the beginning Travis/Kevin was going to be an integral part of the show?

They put effort into casting a Māori woman and a white man to play Lottie’s parents to honor Courtney’s heritage and the same with casting black and white parents for Jasmine. But Kevin is Brazilian, Carlos Sanz (Coach Martinez) is Chilean, Andres Soto (adult Travis) is Costa Rican, while I couldn’t figure out an exact ethnicity for Luciano I do know that Portuguese is not a language he speaks, and according to IMDb Erika Hau (Mrs Martinez) is Mexican.

It really irks me that the casting department threw in a bunch of people from LATAM and decided they could play a family or different version of the same character. Yellowjackets is definitely not the first show/movie to do this and it most definitely will not be the last but because I have so much love for these characters and for the cast it makes me want to respect both of them in the best way possible.

Again this probably isn’t that big of a deal but this discussion is important to me and it would rly mean a lot if yall would share your own thoughts on it!

So for my fellow YJ fans:

[noodles-doodles01]

I want to give my two cents about the Louella and Lou Lou casting.

I, like many others, imagined Louella to have the same darker features that are described for those who live in the Seam (tanned skin, dark hair, gray eyes), and in turn, also believed Lou Lou to have these features, since not only does she look like Louella (made to) but she’s said to be initially from 11.

Of course, I do believe that characters from the Seam having darker features (I always imagined them to be indigenous, esp Katniss and her father) plays a major role in the story, especially when portraying the obsession that oppressive forces have with indigenous or any ethnic population and the violence that is imposed upon them. However, the casting of Louella isn’t an issue for the movies now, but rather one that started with the original trilogy.

Katniss is described to have deeper olive skin and grey eyes with deep brown hair, and although I think Jennifer Lawrence did a phenomenal job with her portrayal, she doesn’t look like book Katniss. Same with Haymitch and Gale. And since SoTR is a prequel film, they have to keep things up. So Haymitch is still a blonde white guy bc he grows up to be Woody Harrelson in a wig.

“But Louella wasn’t seen before!” Good point, but the epilogue specifically notes that Katniss looks a hell of a lot like Louella, hence why he calls her sweetheart. The actress for Louella is almost a spitting image of a mini Jennifer Lawrence.

I get it, believe me I do. I truly do want a representation of resistance from people of colour on an oppressive system that is taken directly from current world events, since it would normalize the image in peoples minds that just because a non white person does it, doesn’t make it a crime (morally speaking). But that isn’t the actress’ fault, but a Hollywood fault.

[margaretkart]

I pray that one day you will learn that race and ethnicity are two entirely different socially constructed concepts. They are not equivalents. They are not interchangeable. They are two entirely separate distinct words with very different definitions.

Using these words, incorrectly on top of it all, to code what you really want to say ("Greek people are white") just reveals you to be even more ignorant.

Oh, I’m very aware that race and ethnicity are different. The issue is that a lot of people conveniently ignore that when it comes to Greeks. And this isn’t just about semantics—it’s about representation and how Greeks are erased or misrepresented in media.

Race is a broad social construct based on physical traits. It’s vague, inconsistent, and changes based on society.

Ethnicity is about culture, language, history, and shared ancestry. It’s more specific and grounded in identity.

Greeks are an ethnic group. In racial terms, we’re often classified as white (by Western standards), but historically, Greeks haven’t always been viewed that way. It fluctuates depending on who’s making the judgment.

Why it matters?

Because when it comes to representation, people suddenly swap ethnicity for race, when it suits them. This leads to two issues:

Greek characters—when they exist—are often played by actors who aren’t Greek or don’t resemble actual Greeks. When people argue that “Greek gods can be anyone” but also never cast Greek actors in major roles, it’s clear there’s a bias. We barely get any modern Greek stories, and when we do, they’re usually played by British or American actors who don’t represent Greek culture.

Example: In Christopher Nolan’s upcoming Odyssey, how many actors will actually be Greek? Based on Hollywood’s track record, probably none. This is a movie about a Greek epic, yet casting directors rarely think actual Greeks fit the part.

Percy Jackson (movies and series) ,has gods played by everyone except Greeks —which oddly, that only seems to happen when it comes to Greek gods.

This is where the double standard comes in. If race doesn’t matter, why do people get upset when you suggest casting an poc actor to play, say, a Norse god? It’s always Greek figures that get changed, while others remain “accurate.”

When Achilles was cast as Black in Troy: Fall of a City, any Greek pushback was dismissed as racism—yet if someone cast a Greek actor as Thor, people would demand “authenticity.”

Percy Jackson again—because it deserves repeating. The gods are based on Greek mythology, yet casting Greek actors wasn’t even a consideration. (Casting only ONE actor of Greek descent is the bare minimum)

Greek figures are uniquely disconnected from their own ethnicity, while others are protected. If race doesn’t matter, why does it only not matter for Greeks? The same people who defend “diverse” casting for Greek mythology would throw a fit if it happened to their own culture’s figures.

It’s not about gatekeeping mythology—it’s about equal treatment. Greeks don’t even get to represent themselves in their own stories. If representation matters, then Greeks should also matter.

[janeways-coffees]

Ok ngl the lack of understanding of the word "diversity" by the wheel of time casting director is starting to piss me off. It's actually important to mutliple plots that there are different ethnic groups that look different and are indentifiable by those looks.

Rant/criticism below the cut

Rand needed to stand out like a sore thumb in the first few episodes. Just like? Its a plot point that the two rivers is so inbred its one of the few places there hasnt been complete breeding out of channeling- so why the fuck is cenn buie white??? Why was there a random east asian extra?? Like im sorry all the two rivers folk should be played by austrialian aboriginal or black people like madeleine madden or zoë robbins because the PLOT POINT is that theyre inbred.

The fact that you have characters from the same ethnic group played by actors from different groups diminishes the importance of that ethnicity.

I think this bothers me so much because first of all, robert jordan clearly understood that ethnicity and ethnic groups matter. When in Dumai's wells they bring together the Aiel and Cairhien and Tairens and Two Rivers Folk, perrin comments that they cant tell the Aiel on their side apart from the shaido aiel. This, im willing to bet, mirror's Jordan's experience in Vietnam. He was white and ignorant and couldn't tell his south vietnamese allies from the north vietnamese enemies. Its an important acknowledgement that this shit happens in warfare. You need uniforms because in real life you can't always tell friends from enemies on sight.

Additionaly, as someone who isn't in the in-group it matters that I can recognize my people. Growing up in a realtively white blue collar area in the states I was always quizzed on my ethnicity (they could tell I wasnt white-like-them) and then when I entered spaces with my own people I could always find them and I didnt look different.

And this is something I've seen a lot in progressive spaces. People treat ethnicity as though it's something that is a shell- that beneath your different skin tone, were all the same! (White) this isn't just a wheel of time issue, but it's an excellent case study of casting a number of actors of color while erasing the actual diversity of the story.

EDIT: i had a note in here about alanna and leave being played by very different actors despite both being from Arad Doman. Turns out Alanna is Arafellen. Oops!

[chevelleneech]

I hope non-Black and non-Asian fans who might also ship Reylo quickly come to understand that while Reylo did get a lot of push back for both valid and bullshit reasons… Oshamir shippers do in fact get to celebrate some of the hypocritical arguments working on our favor, because Black/bi-racial femme presenting and Asian male actors are almost never the leads in popular television and film.

They are either paired off with a white partner or they themselves are the sidekick to a white lead, and usually only date people within their ethnicity. The latter of which is neither bad nor wrong, but adds to the misguided belief that Black women and femmes and Asian men are not bankable or attractive outside their own demographic.

So I’m sorry to say, but if you are a Reylo shipper who feels slighted or even frustrated, that’s fine. Feel how you feel, I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t make posts about it, but white people being in corruption arc romances or etl is not a rare occasion. Meaning, when yet another one exhibits traits that are toxic or not so great, it is fine for people to not like it. It’s fine for people to call it annoying or repetitive, because it is. When it comes to non-white characters who either match ethnicities or are in an interracial relationship without a white partner, it automatically becomes something new.

Why? Because we do not often see it play out that way on screen. And no, Osha won’t be dealing with anti-Blackness or misogynoir on screen nor will Qimir deal with Asian stereotyping, because race and ethnicity aren’t played the same in Star Wars as far as I know, but that doesn’t mean their casting matters less in reality. At the end of the day, it’s all fiction, but that doesn’t change the fact that Black people and Asian (Filipino men to be exact) people shouldn’t be allowed this opportunity to seem ourselves reflected back on screen in the same genre based shows white people get.

Star Wars, science fiction, and fantasy in general is so overwhelmingly white and creatured/alien, that people don’t even realize how uncommon the tropes and cliches they’re tired of seeing, really are. Osha and Qimir would kikeky still work yet not be as thrilling if either one of them were white, because a white woman being corrupted by the evil man of color has very racist connotations, and a woman of color being corrupted by a misunderstood white man is very common on screen. And if they’re both white… then it’s just a Reylo do over, isn’t it?

So like I said, I understand people will be frustrated and want to know how Oshamir is different regarding the character journeys themselves, but it’s not always just about what’s on the written page. The Acolyte needs fine tuning in terms of the writing, but it’s not the worst show on tv by far. And the fact that Oshamir is interracial and non-white in the classic sense, is a huge part of why they work and why people are more interested than what may have been for Reylo.

[davekat-sucks]

yeah pretty much what you said also, as i saw someone else say, people give hussie WAY too much credit for racial coding. hes not the most politically correct guy and the only reason he became that way is because he was forced to cater to his new type of fanbase once the story became more popular with those types of people. the ONLY reason he even made racial coding happen in the first place was just because he thought putting stereotypes on trolls to be funny. condesce/meenah speaks aave because funny and damara speaks japanese because woah horny weaboo! even the progressive side of the fanbase is split on how black coded the makaras are. plus given the whole retcon-y nature of homestuck maybe its just me but i feel when it came to what races the characters were meant to be coded as were inconsistent. i get trolls are like an alternate reality equivalent of humans and have a lot of human traits clearly but i dont think hussie was consistent on those traits either. 

like the beta counterparts feferi and aradia show no signs of culture and coding. the ancestors/dancestors were a later idea and were inspired by fanfcition. it is divisive if damara is even meant to be truly japanese or a weeb. nitram family might be spaniards and so on. heck even the condy is based on nicki minaj thing was a rumor that seems to be slowly more contested these days. we only have evidence she was partially based on a white character aka betty crocker but people dont use this to argue that she is white coded despite that playing a way bigger role than *potentially* being inspired by a black woman. personally i think race coding for trolls is there but not because of genuine diversity but for the sake of references and lols but also i dont think the races were consistent in the first place. i think hussie would swap things whenever he feels like it. like yeah things like troll will smith exist but we have absolutely no proof condy is troll nicki minaj.

plus there IS the whole thing of how hussie clearly early on saw the humans as all white until he retconned them to be aracial which only works because ectobiology. caucasian incident anyone? and if the human kids are aracial because they are actually revealed to be biologically different paradox space clones why wouldnt the same apply to the beta and alpha trolls who arent truly biologically trolls either because they are made the same way? more to why i think the coding was an inconsistency and he just added coding as an excuse for making jokes and pop culture references. the more you think about it, and while yes homestuck is filled with nonsense, if we are gonna have serious debates about it then if humans who were once racially coded are now accepted as aracial because of ectobiology then it makes less sense why the same wouldnt apply to aliens who yes are meant to be an alternate universe stand in for humans but they are not part of that alien race either because they were made through ectobiology too. food for thought.

I wouldn't mind if he had put in racial coding as a joke. I mean, this is the same guy who made Team Special Olympics. He has done racist humor and wouldn't put it pass him if he does it in Homestuck but now with trolls being used as jokes about racism. I bet that's what he had in mind when stuff like Eastern Alternia was introduced. I wouldn't be surprised if there was something equivalent to other ethnicity in Alternia, they would play up the stereotype to the extreme and it would be seen as normal to the trolls.

If people had thought Meenah and by extension, The Condesce, was black coded, doesn't that mean it was a POC that placed the racist hemospectrum caste system in the first place? Doesn't that give a worse implication? But then again, nobody makes Eridan black for that reason and they always depict him as white or light skinned. People pick and choose who gets to be light or dark based on if the fandom likes or hates them. Because making a character that is hated or problematic a POC means that person thinks x race is bad, when it's never the case. Despite even now aracial being canon, people still get upset if you depict some as white. Even if it's on-model. So then everybody is POC, including problematic characters like Bro, Caliborn, Eridan, and Cronus? Or are they the exception because they are abusers, toxic masculinity, incels, etc?

[back-alley-bardblog]

RANDOM FACTS ABOUT THE CAST GO /nf

OIUHHHHH FUCK ok i'll do FOUR EACH!! FOUR PER CHARACTER LETS GO!! (ALL UNDER THE CUT!! \/\/\/)

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CEDAR!

He's from Singapore! He moved to the US to study abroad and ended up sticking around due to enjoying his time there... mostly (Also! Cedar is not his real name. His full name is Wen Liang Yan, he chose an English name because he was sick of people either butchering it or just generally reacting weirdly to it.)

He's Trilingual, English being his 3rd language specifically. He's still fluent but does often find himself slipping up here and there (you can actually see it in his original introduction ask! him forgetting the word for choir was subtle character building,,,)

His default username/gamertag is W_Pickl. It was originally the name of his reddit account, it was supposed to be Pickle but he unfortunately didn't notice the typo until he'd confirmed the username. It's too iconic to change now.

Tobi is his favourite bandmate. Jasper is his least favourite. He makes both opinions fairly known to both parties.

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JASPER!

If you ask him why he started playing his instrument he will always respond with "I wanted people to know I'm good with my hands" and then not elaborate further. It's definitely not his actual reason but Jasper would honestly rather kill himself than give a genuine response to that question.

Tends to smoke whenever he's bored and can't think of anything better to do... or he's just loitering around not doing anything in particular. Doesn't mind sharing though, which is nice of him... (he is definitely addicted though

Incredibly particular about his hair and his bass, both things seeming to have a lot of value to him as a person. He always does the maintenance for both by himself, if you were to ask to do his hair or ask to lend his bass he'd look at you like you just stabbed him.

He has an intense unexplained hatred for one specific 90's rockstar and will go to extreme lengths to avoid listening to any of his music

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KALEI!

He's really into fitness and eating well, he often pesters his bandmates into eating properly. Especially Tobi. He's gained a habit of waking up early before the lil guy heads off to work to leave some eggs out so he doesn't go his whole day on a can of red bull and prayers.

Kalei was in a metal band when he was 18, making him the only person in the band who's been in an actual band before. If it weren't for Claire (we will talk about her soon trust) he'd definitely be the one wrangling them around the motions of everything.

The fella was born and raised in Hawaii (bonus fact! ethnically speaking he's half native!), eventually moving to the states with his dad when he was 17, leaving his adult sisters behind. It wasn't a choice he made willingly and he didn't have the best experience finishing up high school there...

The guy likes to powerlift! Being strong gives him confidence in himself, being a bigger guy his whole life didn't garner him the best treatment from others so what started as a way to end the bullying eventually became a way for Kalei to love his own body (also i think he could lift tobi and cedar at the same time. tobi regularly abuses this at crowded gigs where everyone else is tall.)

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TOBI!

Tobi has the worst diet humanly possible, often neglecting to eat correctly out of sheer forgetfulness and trying to go entire days on just a singular red bull to avoid being late for something he promised to be on time to. The lad is definitely deficient in SOMETHING but its not clear what that is...

Cuddly thing they are. Tobi's love language is physical contact and his loved ones are DEEPLY aware of this, while Tobi definitely does adjust based on comfort levels he always tends to be somewhat clung to someone whenever he's out and about. Usually Cedar, he uses the guy as a seat way too often...

Tobi LOVES horror stuff. Slashers being a massive favourite of theirs. He has an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of every major slasher character and all of their kills, his ao3 history is absolutely vile x reader fics of the ones he thinks are hot. If he played dead by daylight he'd intentionally get mori'd by Ghostface and that's all I have to say on the matter (if anyone asks what his username would be i will give you my honest answer) (also yes this is an autism thing tobi is written to be an AUDHDer and the horror stuff is likely a special interest of theirs)

He doesn't like having his arms out, often either wearing long sleeved shirts or arm warmers. The latter usually coming out when the weather is too hot for him to use his typical shirts.

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ok that concludes the funny little trivia post :3 yet again i'm always open to answer any questions people may have for the lads, I'll drop the intro post ASAP trust!!

[princesssarisa]

I’m starting to think that in The Lion King, the characters' balance between animal and human traits is a slightly uneasy one.

First and foremost, there’s the core concept that every creature has its own “place in the circle of life,” which can’t be violated or else the delicate balance of nature will be upset. Now, if we think of this in animal terms, it’s just fine. In the wild, every animal does have a role to play in the ecosystem, which does exist in a delicate balance that shouldn’t be tampered with. But many critics over the years have looked at it from a human perspective and complained about the movie's "conservative" or "social Darwinist" message. They feel as if it advocates confining people to specific castes and roles in society, whether they like it or not.

The choice in Mufasa: The Lion King to reveal that Mufasa wasn't of royal birth is obviously an attempt by Disney to address this complaint, which has been heard again and again since 1994. But it's not just about the lions: it especially applies to the hyenas.

Even though the hyenas' own land is bleak, barren, and lacking in food, the lions refuse to share the Pride Lands' lush bounty with them, and when Scar changes the status quo and brings them to Pride Rock, their greed leads to famine. Now, there's nothing wrong with this concept from an animal perspective: lions and hyenas are natural enemies and the Pride Lands' ecosystem can't support two apex predator groups. But from a human perspective, it's all too easy to view them as an impoverished "underclass," or worse, as a symbolic ethnic minority group, who are oppressed by the majestic, light-colored, ruling class lions, yet whom we're supposed to view as dangerous parasites. Countless critics have accused the movie of "racism" for that reason.

It's tempting to respond to those complaints by saying "It's not about race or social class, these characters are animals." But does that argument hold up when the characters are sapient like humans? Or when the plot hinges on very human behaviors and concepts? Real lions don't have hereditary rule: a male lion doesn't become the pride's new leader after his father dies, he takes over another pride with brute force. Yet not only does the movie's plot revolve around hereditary rule, but it ties that concept intrinsically to nature's "circle of life." Death is followed by rebirth, everyone has a role to play in the ecosystem... and therefore it's Simba's duty to take his place as king because he's Mufasa's son and heir. Then there are Timon and Pumbaa, who raise a lion cub despite being lions' natural prey, and end up living among the lions at Pride Rock. In real life, animal instinct wouldn't let this happen; they'd be eaten. If these lions are sapient enough to befriend animals they would normally eat, then why can't they treat the hyenas more fairly?

I suppose it works best just to think of the story as being like a myth: about growing up, the cycles of life and nature, coming to terms with death, etc. It shouldn't be viewed as either a realistic portrayal of animals or an allegory for human socio-political issues. But all the same, the way the characters combine "animal" and "human" qualities hasn't always sat easily with the critics.

[fels-fantasy-hoard]

One of my friends and players just brought something up to me that I think is a discussion that should be had and that is:

Should white people make ocs that are poc in ttrpgs

She sent me two ticktocks here and here where two poc talk about how it makes them uncomfortable when white people play as poc in ttrpgs and she was freaking out because her oc from the last 3-4 years in our campaign is mix raced. My friend is also mix raced but white passing and she was afraid she was offending people.

So, I just wanna give my perspective from observing this same discussion in other writing communities - because it is essentially the same discussion of whether or not white people can write poc in novels, video game, movies, etc because it all comes down to aesthetic appropriation.

Now, if any poc would like to add their own thoughts and experiences with this please do, your voices are much more important than mine - a white person - so I'm going to put my thoughts under a cut. I'm basically going to talk about my own observations within the fantasy genre as a whole when it comes to ethnicity and race and the patterns I've seen and how that translates into the ttrpg medium. Cheers :D

So, the main problem I've seen brought up when white people try to be inclusive by adding poc in their stories is that their inclusion stops at aesthetics. A poc is still written with the mindset of a white person. Changing the ethnicity of a character changes nothing about them and - many times - their ethnicity isn't even clear. They are south Asian but of which country? Which region? South Asians are an incredibly diverse ethnic group just like Afrians or Central/South Americans. If you can swap the ethnicity of a character without changing anything about them, then you aren't actually making good representation, you are doing the bare minimum of preventing an all white cast. It's 2023, we should hold ourselves and each other to higher standards.

Now, when it comes to fantasy stories, there is a bit of a problem. The worlds within fantasy settings become so much smaller because humans often share the setting with nonhumans such as elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. This means humans are often turned into a european monolith - or something very close to it - while other real world ethnicities are shoved onto fantasy lineages (often times still flavors of european).

I dont think I need to point out why this is a problem. Humans continue using the aesthetics of nonwhite ethnicities but completely divorced of their culture and context. This is the definition of appropriation. I can think of dozens of fantasy stories from various mediums where there would be no change if a poc was white because their ethnicity has no impact on their characterization - as seen with various video game characters who's skin becomes lighter and lighter through every installment or has dark skinned concept art and a light skinned final product.

You want your fantasy setting to be a mixing pot of cultures and ethnicities? Ok, look at the US and how all of these different cultures remain intact even after generations. Yes, there is a level of assimilation but even fourth gen Mexican immigrants are still influenced their culture. Mix raced people have their own unique struggles and cultural experiences. Every country in the world has their own unique mixing pot of cultures and ethnicities. No country is a monolith as that would require committing cultural and/or ethnic genocide to everyone who does not fit the predestined mold.

A setting can have a mixing pot of cultures without racism or prejudice. You can have a human civilization that isn't a monolith. Don't be afraid to research different cultures to represent them with respect. Not only will it make your setting feel more immersive, it will give you a deeper understanding and respect for people irl.

It's always boggled my mind when people say irl race doesn't matter in fantasy then immediately turn around with fantasy racism like... seriously? The beauty of humanity is how diverse our cultures are and yet you'd rather dismiss this beauty over using the violence of prejudice and racism as cheap conflict in your story.

If you actually want to be inclusive in your fantasy stories, do research. Talk to poc of the ethnicity you are trying to represent.

If you are a player wanting to make an oc that is a different ethnicity than you - consider why? Does the character's physical appearance actually matter to their story? Are you willing to put in the work to represent this character's culture and respect the irl culture and people you are drawing from? Is this even your story to tell? If your answer to any of these questions is no, then maybe you should rethink some things.

I don't have the answer on whether or not white people should be allowed to make their oc a person of color but I think this question is indicative of a much larger problem within the fantasy genre of aesthetic appropriation and surface level representation of poc. I don't have any answers - other than put more effort into representing different ethnicities and cultures which its whole own can of worms- but its a conversation that should be had.

I would love to hear other people's thoughts and feel free to correct me or add your own experiences with this. I want to learn so I can write better representation in my stories and understand different perspectives better. Cheers :D

[neikikardartv]

Superhero Roundtable

Gen V (2023)

The series Gen V is a spin-off of The Boys series on Prime, it aired very recently with the season only wrapping up on November 3rd of this year. The show takes place in the same universe as The Boys and its timeline is meant to align and intersect a bit with the new season. Instead of focusing on the main adult superheros of the universe, Gen V chooses to center its narrative on the younger victims of compound V (Which is the drug people can take to potentially get powers). The show is set in a college that only ‘Supes’ can attend (think Sky High). There they are ranked and all aim for the number one spot and to be a part of the famous ‘7’ supe group. The show is similar to what I talked about in my Buffy roundtable but here demons are swapped with superpowers for adolescent woes metaphors.

How do structural mythology, cultural studies, and cultural history reflect the series?

As the show came out this year it's cultural studies and history is all very recent, and it specifically caters toward Gen Z. In doing so the cast is much more diverse than The Boys and earlier superhero shows. The main character is a young Black woman named Marie who’s love interest is a bigender Korean American who can shapeshift between two different genders of masculine and feminine. The friend group she also meets up with also consists of others diverse in background and ethnicity. The call for more diverse superheroes is definitely a product of more recent cultural values and changes, especially with younger people being the target demographic. The politics of the show also represent the recent political timeline with our generation's disappointment in the actions and lack of actions the government has taken on corruption with capitalism, climate change, etc . This can be seen with Vought International, the multibillion dollar conglomerate that founded the famous 7 and manages ‘supes’. The company also does entertainment, news, weapons, fast food chains etc. The corruption of the company and its supes, most notably its most powerful supe Homelander who’s villain arc mirrors Trump, really fits the current post Trump political climate. The structural mythology of supes in the show is interesting as well. Instead of the show having the classic Hero’s journey with its superheroes and their gaining of powers. The main characters of the show got their powers from their parents injecting them with Compund V so they could profit off of their abilities. The superpowers they have are often the root of their trauma. The main character, Marie,  has blood controlling powers that manifested on her first period and led her to accidentally kill her parents in front of her sister. Overall, this pessimistic view of superheroes and their powers is really reflective of our current political and cultural landscape.

In what ways are the superheroes and their abilities informed by their racial, gender, sexual, and cultural identities?

One superhero that exemplifies the concept of their abilities being informed by their identities—specifically gender—is Jordan Li, the bigender Korean American who can shapeshift between two different genders of masculine and feminine that I previously mentioned. Through Jordan Li’s super powers the show is able to mythologize gender fluidity and identity struggles. In this clip, Jordan is talking to their parents who are upset that their developing powers gave them the ability to shift from a boy to a girl. Jordan has to explain that they are still themselves in both forms and have always been the same, but their father still disapproves.

In what ways do costumes and concealing identities further separate the superheroes from normal society? How necessary is it for the superheroes to hide their true identities to successfully achieve their goals?

In the Gen V the superheroes identities aren’t concealed from the public but they do have superhero personas that they are more known by in the public and media sphere. The celebrity-like status they have with their super personas is used to other them and commodify their powers to entertain others as a spectacle. One example of this is with the character Emma whose superpower is her ability to make herself change size. At school she is majoring in becoming a super influencer basically and goes by the persona ‘Little Cricket’ for her popular youtube channel. While her channel is popular we learn that it really is her mother wanting to profit off of her abilities and doesn’t care that she has to throw up and purge in order to change herself. Her power is also fetishized by a male classmate who wants her to get small while they are intimate. So in Gen V the creation of separate identities is not used to achieve their own personal goals but is instead taken advantage of by non-supes to capitalize off of.

How do the economic, political, and social events that occurred during the series’ creation and broadcast cultivate and inform the superheroes’ decisions and actions? 

In the series there is a very ‘us vs. them’ mentality between the supes and non-supes that is reminiscent of the current political climate. In episode 7 a senator comes to the school for an interview and it ends in a riot. The senator runs the Federal Bureau of Superhuman Affairs which seeks to monitor and investigate Supes and stop them from harming others. In the panel Senator Neuman is trying to pander to both sides, with boos and applause for each statement as the students are split between wanting to punish Supes like Homelander for killing innocent people or for thinking that not supporting him is Anti-super.  As the episode description shows, 

Calling all God U #Hometeamers! Today we’re protesting Socialist Victoria Neuman’s town hall on campus! Let’s show Neuman and her Supe-hating woke mob that we won’t put up with their anti-Superhero agenda! THEY WILL NOT CONTROL US! #MakeAmericaSuperAgain #SupeLivesMatter

The supe vs non-supe divide is very politicized with it mirroring liberal and conservative ideals of the spectrum. The situation is very polarizing and the “Supelivesmatter” crowd ends up disrupting the panel and it becomes very violent. The show is not very subtle with its mirroring of Blue Lives Matter and MAGA, especially with Homelander being a stand in for Trump. This is the central conflict between America’s general super population and their actions demonstrating the impact of our own political news cycle on the show.

How do the superheroes question themselves, each other, and their obligations and duties to the people around them?

In the show characters are constantly questioning intentions, who to trust, and what is right and wrong–especially within the supes and non supes dichotomy. The main characters are grappling with if the pain and violence that their powers have inflicted on others unintentionally are actually their fault and dealing with their guilt and self hatred for it at the same time.

This really leads to the central conflict of if their obligations are to use their powers to protect themselves or the non-supes that put them in the position of having these powers in the first place. The show is really complex in its portrayal of this as in the final scene of the show you are really left wondering what is the right thing to do alongside the characters as they decide who they should side with. Gen V is unique because while in The Boys the superheroes are more villainized but in Gen V it’s more unclear as we are able to see through following the adolescent super perspective it wasn't their fault. It is only at university that Marie and other students are able to begin to realize that the violence and trauma their powers have inflicted on their families and other non-supes is not their own but their parents' fault for injecting them with compound V in the first place.

The fact that their parents did in want of fame and fortune promised by Vought International,  really shows that capitalism has been the real villain all along.

“Your parents shot you up with a dangerous drսg when you were a baby to make a buck off you. Don't spend a fսcking minute crying over them”

@theuncannyprofessoro

[alarrytale]

Have you seen the new Men’s Health mag interview with TZP? He was asked about queer representation and he said that when Nick was asked about his sexuality last week in an interview it was rude because it’s personal. Smart. He headed the interviewer off at the pass before he could ask if he was straight and taking a queer role away from a queer actor. I thought it was a really good interview overall. He was pretty inspiring.

Hi, anon!

I saw the quotes on my tl. I wasn't as impressed as you were about his interview. Does this quote remind you of anything said by another closeted actor/singer/boyfriend of Louis Tomlinson, playing a queer character on film?

TZP: I've seen a lot of poorly focused and not well executed queer films. And I watched more and more after I got cast in this and there was a clear distinction of what kind of movie I didn't want to make.

Source

They are both not out as queer and are out here talking down other queer movies, while being percieved by the general public as "straight people". Don't they know they're not allowed to do that, when they're not giving the queer community representation, at least without getting critisism and backlash from the queer community? It seems to me that TZP, much like H forget that he's supposed to be straight. He's speaking as a member of the community about the community he's not representing. It won't be recieved well.

Anyway, here is the quote about Nick and sexuality;

MH: The conversation around queer men being the ones deserving to play queer characters is ongoing. But that conversation seems to get muted when the actors do it right. What do you think was right about Red, White & Royal Blue? TZP: Cate Blanchett said something, 'We must fight to the death to suspend disbelief.' And that just always stuck with me, because if you're watching a film and there's nothing outside the room that matters, the actors are doing their jobs. Nicholas was just asked the other day about his sexuality, and I just find it so rude. It’s unprofessional and no one's business. That's someone's personal life. And so I'm grateful to be part of a project where, yes, it is a love story, but again, it's not the sole focus. These people have robust, full lives. They're educated. Alex is in law school. Henry is crazy smart and he's a prince, and his sense of duty is unparalleled. The less people focus on sexuality and see what these people are capable of, that's when we've created real change.

First of all, lol, the conversation about queer actors playing queer roles get's muted when the queer community is convinced the one's playing the queer roles are closeted, but queer. If the queer community is convinced said person is straight, then the conversation starts up again. It's not about the convincing performance. Many straight actors have won awards for playing queer people. It's still not okay.

Second of all, TZP starting to talk about Nick and being asked about his sexuality does indeed sound like TZP is going on defence and warning the interviewer to not ask him the same question. Sexuality can be a sensitive subject, but when you're an actor and a public figure playing a queer role, you will get asked questions like this. It's not rude nor unprofessional. Queer people want queer representation. If you're closeted you say you're straight or you don’t answer and let people speculate. If you're that concerned about people wanting to know if you represent them by identifying as queer, and you're that protective of your privacy, you shouldn't take a queer acting role. You should probably not be a celebrity at all. It's all a very "don't ask, don't tell" attitude and i don't care for it.

TZP also want less focus on sexuality and if people don't focus on it we've created change. That's the goal, but that's not how the world works at all. We all want a world where sexuality, race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, ability, social status and affluence doesn’t matter in how we are percieved by others. That's not how the world works. You can’t say it doesn’t matter that black people are cast in movies. You can’t say it doesn’t matter that people with dwarfism are cast to play people with dwarfism. All marginalised and minority groups wants representation and to be seen and validated by mainstream media. Same goes for queer people. So sexuality does matter. It matters very much for queer people, that queer people get to play queer people in order to normalise being queer.

So until we live in a world where sexuality isn't a hindrance whatsoever, and queer people enjoy the same success as straight people, and being queer is normalised, sexuality matters.

[papirouge]

I’m pretty sure Matt Walsh is one of those American conservatives who were a failed entertainer/musician turned to conservative media for a paycheck. Someone posted a video about a girl who used to work for those far right spaces and she would say that these personalities online were failed actors and musicians and went to the right of politics for a check since all they need to do is talk. They don’t believe what they say and will ignore the power of the tongue constantly. It doesn’t matter how hypocritical or backwards the message is. If they say it, they get paid. So I take nothing they say to heart. Walsh and his kind had bashed Halle and the little mermaid remake so much, but when someone decides to make it an Asian girl, Native girl, gay girl or trans (or someone else they don’t like), then they’ll come back to Halle’s Ariel and praise it for being accurate. These type of people I find to be lost souls without a higher purpose no matter how much they praise Christian beliefs. I don’t feel Christ is in their hearts as much as the love of money and power and influence. The things that Satan temped Jesus with in the desert.

Yeah, there's nothing more dangerous than people with failed dreams because they are so bitter and hateful against everyone. I think Ben Shapiro is a failed screenwriter and Candace Owen tried to create an app to signal hate crime when she was still a liberal 💀 oh and let's not forget Andrew Tate and his career as an MMA player (heard he was not bad at it but it was kinda nipped into the bud). Miles Cheong (an infamous Musk bootlicker) was a video game reviews and got splashed by the gamergate scandal. I remember when Musk started beefing against Rockstar game/GTA VI (probably tweaking on ketamine) on xitter, Miles went to his defense saying he never played a GTA game, and he got fact-checked with a community note explaining that since he was a game reviewer, he most likely already played that game 😭💀

And conservatives seething at Ariel being Black over the "she's looking like Ariel" really show they hypocrite selves because when Margot Robbie (who was a perfect barbie lookalike) got casted in Barbie, they still had a problem with that cast because she was too old (which is INSANE because barbie can literally be any age), or ugly (which is peak delusion), etc etc... They will always find excuses....

That being said, I don't think conservatives would have have much a problem with an Asian barbie bc Asians (at least easterners) are still pale, Asians don't have the same history as they do with black Americans so rightoids don't have the same deep seated guilt(?) that breeds that resentment & defensiveness whenever they see black people represented in media. I'll never forget how gamerbro got mad at Jade being Black in the new Mortal Kombat game, but didn't have much of a reject reaction when a significant part of the cast got turned into Asians (Syndel, Raiden, Smoke, etc.).. of course you had idiots asking why ninjas were Asians (???) and how they would rather be "Mediterranean" LMAO As if Mediterranean was an ethnicity (Italians and Egyptians are technically both "Mediterranean" - they still are different ethnicities). But it was a failed attempt to act sleek and not straight up say "I prefer those characters to White" ....a mEdiTeRrAneAn ninja wouldn't still make anysense anyway 💀

And yeah, none of these conservatives are Christians. They are modern day pharisees or zealots. It's not coincidence that Jesus rebuked both of these sides. In the desert, satan tempted Jesus with 3 leverage : materialism/desire of the flesh (asking him to turn stone into bread), greediness (asking him to bow before him to have all the glory in the world), and prideful recklessness (asking him to self harm/throw himself over a cliff arguing nothing will happen to him anyway bc he's the son of God). When you think of everything happening in the world, it HAS to fall in either of those category. Satan keeps using those tricks cause they work.