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rynnthefangirl · 4 months ago

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In regard to JL&J vs. A&V, I wonder if the fandom animosity has anything to do with Viserys II being the absolute worst.

He forces his daughter to marry his rapist son and then steals his niece’s throne, using Rhaenyra as evidence to why women shouldn’t rule.

In contrast we have dashing Prince Jace who dies fighting for his mother’s claim and goes down in history as one of the greatest kings Westeros never had. George’s own words btw.

No one can say Westeros was better off with Daemyra’s son on the throne instead of Jace and most of us can agree that Rhaenyra’s definitely cursing Viserys II from the grave.

The ideal ending was King Jacaerys I Targaryen, the tragedy is that we end up with King Viserys II Targaryen.

Boy oh boy, you activated my Viserys II and Aegon III defense protocol.

First, to be clear I 100% agree King Jacaerys I would have been amazing, and (along with Queen Baela) one of the best monarchs Westeros would have ever seen. Westeros was robbed, and FUCK the Greens for that.

But Viserys II the absolute worst? Not even close.

First, the Daena issue. Viserys gets a lot of shit for this, but let’s look at the reality. He has just spent 14 years trying to protect the realm from the follies of his nephews, Daeron the Warmonger and Baelor the Religious Zealot. Now he has two options. Option 1. Let Daena take the throne. Daena was said to idolize her brother Daeron (the violent war monger who got 50,000 men killed to stroke his ego), and likely sympathized with the anti-Dornish (read: racist) faction at court forming since Daeron’s failed conquest. Viserys’ own great grandchild is half Dornish, and the peace with Dorne was hard won — does Westeros need a Queen who may threaten to break that peace? How many more will die if Daena decides to avenge her brother? Daena also has been locked in isolation for 10 years— while obviously she should not be punished for that (and I cannot stress this enough, FUCK Baelor), you do have to wonder what kind of effect that may have on her psychology. Now I love Daena, I truly truly do, but there were a lot of red flags as to what kind of Queen she would be. Had Elaena been next in line (and her competence that we later see been known to Viserys), I think it could have been a different story.

Option 2. Take the throne himself. Viserys II is arguably the most competent statesman House Targaryen ever produced. He has buckets of experience running the realm, and truly put the good and prosperity of westeros above all else: above his ego, above his vanity, above his ambition. I don’t believe for one second that Viserys is some devoted male primogeniture advocate that believes women shouldn’t rule: but I think he (correctly) saw that he was more suited to the throne than Daena was. The major downside of Viserys is that his son and heir is awful. BUT Aegon’s flaws would have appeared to be excess lust and gluttony, something he was already indulging in as a prince, and theoretically would not have been so bad for the Realm as a whole if he had just sat back and let the council do the ruling for him, as Viserys likely expected he would. Like Robert Baratheon. And after Aegon, the next in line is Daeron, who at the point of Viserys’ ascension had already been shown to be smart, kind, capable, honorable, wise— all the makings of a great king. Viserys probably figured the realm could tolerate a decade or so of Aegon fucking around while the small council and Hand ruled, to be followed up by an ideal heir, Daeron. This is also all assuming that Viserys was not planning to disinherit Aegon and make Daeron his immediate heir; he may have simply died (or been poisoned) before he had the chance. By contrast, Daena has no true born children yet, so there is no telling how good or bad her heir might be. Would Viserys flip the coin on if her son would be Maegor come again, or go the way he knew had a competent heir one generation down?

I hate to see another Targaryen woman screwed out of her birth right, but please understand how vastly different this was to what Aegon II and the Greens did. This was not just “oh women shouldn’t rule, male primogeniture is great, fuck my mother Rhaenyra” or “oh I’m a greedy asshole who wants the throne and will screw over my own family to get it”. Viserys is simply a practical man who deals with reality the way that it is, not the way that he wishes it to be.

I also think it is worth considering another thing— from what we know about Viserys II, he deeply loved and was utterly loyal to his brother Aegon. I think it’s fair to say his love would extend to his brothers children. He served Daeron and Baelor faithfully… and they both died young, struck down after their personal follies were amplified to a horrifying extent by the absolute power they wielded. Perhaps Viserys worried that power would drive Daena to a similar fate as her brothers, and felt that he was protecting Aegon’s beloved daughter from herself. Now is that incredibly patronizing? Yes. But it may not have been entirely incorrect, and would be coming from a place of love and good intentions.

At the end of the day, Jace is amazing, but he never had to face the same difficult choices that Viserys II and Aegon III did. He was in a war where the goal was simple : win, and protect your family. But what do you do when forced to choose between your mother’s legacy (not her life, her legacy) and peace for your people? When the choice is ego and pride over safety and stability? When to preserve the future, you must let go of the past? Jace died at 15, before he ever had to face such decisions. At age 13, Viserys stood his ground against the Kingsguard, holding out against a secret seige for 18 days and using his courage and wit to undo all of Unwin Peake’s schemes. No part of me doubts that 15 year old Viserys would have jumped on his dragon and rushed to save a little sibling from the the Battle of the Gullet, dying for his family. Jace and Viserys simply cannot he compared. Jace is forever 15, forever flawless and forever brave and forever our perfect would be king. He will never make a mistake. Viserys had to grow up and realize that not everything is as black and white as sending Sandoq the Shadow to protect your lady wife. It’s kind of like what Maekar said to Duncan after Baelor Breakspear died: anytime anything went wrong, people would say “Baelor would not have let this happen, but the Hedge Knight killed him”. Would Baelor have been a phenomenal king? Absolutely. But it’s hardly fair to assume he could and would have fixed any issue that ever went wrong in Valarr’s (or as it would be, Aerys’) reign.

Now— the Naerys issue. I am not going to defend this one as I defended him ascending the throne over Daena. I love Viserys as a character, and rarely do I love characters because I think they are wholly good. Viserys doomed his own goddamn daughter to life of misery and endless marital rape. That cannot be denied. In truth, Viserys II is much the same as Jaehaerys I. Both great men, great kings… and absolutely godawful fathers.

I will offer some context about it though. Because Viserys did not marry 36 year old Aegon to 33 year old Naerys. He married 18 year old Aegon to 15 year old Naerys (and as to the age thing, this was a normal time for Westerosi women to marry, and Viserys in particular is going to have a messed up view on the matter considering that he was married at 12 and seemed to have developed a kind of fucked up Stockholm-esque love for 19 year old Larra). Now, the accounts make it seem like the extent of Aegon’s awfulness did not become truly apparent until he got a bit older, and the mistakes he made were written off by court and realm as the follies of youth. I think one of Viserys’ biggest mistakes and worst characteristics is that he allowed himself to get so caught up in his duty to his brother and realm, that he utterly neglected his own children. They weren’t living in a massive war as he and his brother did in their childhood, so what guidance did they truly need? I think he felt that Aegon had the lust and gluttony that many spoiled rich kids would have, and that time and stern discipline would set him straight. I don’t think he was paying enough attention to see that Aegon was a burgeoning sociopath. Viserys probably thought that sweet, dutiful Naerys would be a good influence on Aegon, and help shape him into a better person. I think it also was a politically motivated match, some classic oldest son-oldest daughter incest to show the realm that the loss of the dragons did not mean House Targaryen was abandoning its ancient customs.

Again, I truly am not trying to say Viserys was in the right here. He should have cared for his children enough to see how fucked up Aegon was and that he was putting his daughter in an incredibly dangerous situation. If Naerys hated her father and cursed his name and never forgave him, she would be so fucking right to do so. But Viserys in truth reminds me a bit of Maekar— I think he was (either through negligence or stubborn willfullness) ignorant (at that point) to his sons true depravity. Maekar thought Aerion (clear born psychopath, broke Tanselle’s fingers, tried to kill Duncan, threatened to castrate his little brother, threw a cat down a well, drank wildfire, Aerion) was a promising young man who just needed a shove in the right direction— until Aerion’s monstrosity got his Uncle Baelor killed. In the same way, I think Viserys saw Aegon as lazy and gluttonous and lustful… but someone who could still be put on the right path. Then by the time it became clear that that wasn’t the case, and he doomed his daughter to marriage to a rapist sociopath, it was too late. Divorce does not exist in Westeros.

The tragedy was not King Viserys II. The tragedy was King Daeron I, King Baelor I, and King Aegon IV. The worst thing Aegon III and Viserys II did was fathering these absolute fuckfaces. But their sons being the absolute worst does not make them the absolute worst. Even the best most noble and amazing person can be cursed with a psycho as a son. Aegon V, lord protector of smallfolk, had none other than Mad King Aerys himself as a grandson. Had Jace ascended the throne, I promise at some point that corruption and rot will rear its ugly head— whether in his sons, grandsons, great-grandsons, etc. Not because it’s endemic to House Targaryen, but because it’s endemic to humanity and having absolute power be inherited to every first born son no matter what is a terrible idea.

At the end of the day, I stan and love ALL of Rhaenrya’s children. Jace, Luke, Joff, Aegon, Viserys— every single one. I won’t deny Viserys is the worst of them, but he also lived the longest, and as such of course is going to have more fucked up shit to his name than literal children who died fighting a war. My original post was calling out Aegon and Viserys “fans” who shit on the Velaryon boys, and I stand by that. I’ll go to war for the Velaryon boys. But I’ll go to war for Daemyra’s boys too, the broken kids who had to pick up the pieces of their broken realm in the wake of the most catastrophic war westeros ever saw, who never asked or wanted any of it. They did their best.

Edit: I’m now realizing this may have come across as aggressive overkill considering that it is genuinely very fair to criticize Viserys. Apologies Anon😅 I’m just really passionate about him and Aegon III (they are my favorite Targs) and this gave me an excuse to talk about a lot of the thoughts I’ve been meaning to make posts about.

#aegon iii targaryen #viserys ii targaryen #donning my armor grabbing my sword whenever anyone talks shit about any of Rhaenrya’s boys #that being said yes fuck Viserys for doing that to naerys #she cried on their wedding day and he still made her go through it #like ignorance is not an excuse pay attention to your fucking kids #but context is important and he is not the ‘absolute worst’#like said that when Aegon II Daeron I Baelor I Aegon IV Aerys II Maegor all exist???#he was low key right about Daena though

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