#is angel/angelus one in the same?

[layer-of-slayers]

My main issue with Angelus as the Big Bad is that he was built up as one of the worst, scariest, most sadistic vampires in history and this whole Buffy and Drusilla parallel was set up with the way he stalked Drusilla and killed everyone she loved only for him to do stuff like... use his invite to Willow’s house to kill Willow’s fish, and use his access to Buffy’s house to leave her handdrawn portraits instead of trying to kill Joyce or attack Buffy in her sleep, and only go after Jenny Calendar when she found a way to re-ensoul him.

So: imagine if Angelus did start to go after Buffy’s loved ones and managed to kill at least one person, Imagine if Buffy and Joyce and the Scoobies had that to deal with when a re-ensouled Angel came back in season 3 (Giles was already dealing with that in canon because Angelus killed Jenny, but i wonder if Buffy.would have reacted differently to him in season 3 if it had been someone she was closer to and didn’t have mixed feelings about, considering she partially blamed Jenny for Angel losing his soul in the first place). 

Basically what i’m thinking is: AU where Angelus kills Hank Summers

[abadbadbrujah]

Jane Espenson writing the majority of Spike episodes where he shows positive character growth, the fact that Spike is the antithsis of Angel and that Joss Wheadon hated his popularity can not be by coincidence.

I know I'm connecting a lot of dots with this one (that have probably been connected before), but she quiet literally wrote the episode where he is reintroduced in season 4 with "Harsh Light of Day", where he becomes part of the Scoobies with "Pangs", "Doomed" and "A New Man".

Then later on in Season 5 saved his character with the masterful "Intervention" where in the same episode she writes Spike creating the sexbot he also shows his worth by being tortured (where we see him being penetrated) and not breaking.

In the season 6 episode she wrote "After Life" where we see Spike's trauma of Buffy dying and how he is literally the only Scoobie to be able to look after her after being resurrected, as he himself has gone through the trauma of dying then digging out of his own grave. Also in this episode we see that he has now taken the mantel of Dawn's supernatural protector, out of surviors guilt from the events of the season 5 finale, and then later on how those events have haunted him every night. Jane then wrote Spike to be the only person in Doublemeat Palace to offer Buffy a way out of working there.

Season 7 Jane co-wrote the highly acclaimed "Conversations with Dead People" then "Sleeper" and "First Date" where we see Spike's fall to The First and where he killed people, but also where we see how he has risen in Buffy's eye's to being trustworthy in "First Date".

With all this being said you can probably understand now why I'd say a lot of Spike nuance is credited to Jane Espenson. To quote James in the SDCC 2012 Buffy panel "Joss would come up to me about 3 episodes in to every season and say he has no idea what to do with me", so this meant the other writers (mostly Jane) to take over with writing Spike. So you can see why it's not too far fethced to say she is the reason behind his popularity as she set a lot of the ground work after s2, outside of James's himself giving a masterful preformance. Later on in the SDCC 2012 Buffy Panel she says "we knew we had this amazingly verstial character largely because we had this amazingly verstial actor, we knew whatever we put infront of James he could do..." this shows that she felt comfortable making Spike into whatever she wanted.

For my last point, there's a lot of examples here that the fandom loves to highlight Spike's being Angel's opposite, like how Spike's treament of a Minor having a crush on him compared to the soul having Angel's. Spike's complete polar opposite on how he see's love as something postive to protect, where as Angelus's use of love as a tool to torture someone with. William loved and respected women where as Liam only used the ones around him.

This all leads me to the conclusion that Spike was more popular than Angel mostly because of Jane's input and groundwork on the character after season 2, and we all know how Joss felt about Spike's popularity and there's no way Jane didn't make all his postive traits the opposite of Angel by coincidence.

Thank you Jane for creating what I believe to be one of the best characters in media history and for being the original Spike girlie.

[instant-star-59]

i actually refuse to buy into the “Angel and Angelus are completely different” propaganda. i’m not sure if that’s unpopular or not, so i’ll say that i refuse to believe that Spike buys into that.

like, he’s the one person in the world who understands the whole soul thing and also one of two people who knew Angelus well enough to know that he had a personality outside of murder. he had motivations and thoughts other than hurting people, i’m absolutely sure of that.

anyway i think Angel and Angelus are very similar. Angelus is just Angel without a conscience. like Liam was a bar brawler before he was sired; if someone upset him, his instinct was to fight. i think that translated very easily into Angelus’ sadistic tendencies. i think Angelus was based on Liam’s personality and Angel’s just. grown up since then. so he’s less of an instigator, but he’s still a very abrasive person.

they act differently but they’re as much the same person as a 70 year old man is to the guy he was at 26

in my head, Spike believes that too. he talks about “when we were evil”, not “when you were Angelus”. he blames Angel for making him a monster. he (like i mentioned in a prev post) still calls Angel “Angel” when he doesn’t have his soul. hell, he calls Angel “Liam” once! i think he categorises them as the same person, which is why he hates Angel so much. not in a “you’re a different person now” way but in a “you made me and then you changed your mind” way

[eyothings]

So out of nowhere this december, i've been hit with nostalgia and decided it was time to rewatch Buffy The Vampire Slayer's entire series after the last time it aired on tv, meaning 20 years ago.

Not only it shaped a whole side of my lil sister personality, it is also the favorite show of one of my cousin and closest friends.

And considering the state i'm in after finishing season 7, i know for sure Spike is the origin of my utter love for anti-heros, England and ennemies-to-lovers trope.

He is one of those characters that stay with you forever.

C'mon look at him, LO_OK.

I had very few memories of the show, only some big moments: Angel leaving for a spinoff, Spike ♥, Dark Willow, Spuffy - Basically I remembered almost nothing.

The first season set the tone for me, i forgot the serie was very funny, and what worked right away was the simple fact that they didn't act seriously either, the actors looked like they just had fun. On top of that, even if i already knew that, the show is very feminist and advanced for its time.

I also forgot how much of an asshole Xander is. lol

The worst season for me is clearly season 4, and between you and me, and me and you, it's unsurprisingly because of Riley and the army.

The best season is obviously season 6, and not only for Spike and Spuffy but for Buffy's whole personality.

I have so much to say about the show really, but I'll stay focused and talk about the two ships: Bangel and Spuffy (and a bit of Riley). Note that it is purely my point of view, based on what i like to see and read in fiction and how I perceive the characters, there is clearly a big difference compared to real life. As well as any "bitch" mentioned here is only affectionate. And if you're crazy enough to read the entire post, I apologise in advance for the many mistakes in my writing, as English is not my mother tongue.

The moment i'm writing this VERY long ass post, I've only just started to watch Angel the series for the first time and I've only seen the first season, so my thoughts on him may change in the future, but I don't think my pov on the ships will. I am also aware of some events in seasons 8 to 12 (comics).

• Bangel:

To be honest I liked their love story more when Angel was Angelus.

First, them falling in love never really clicked, I guess they played the love at first sight trope, but she was 15 and he was 200; at that age, any man who was pretty enough and a bit dark would've worked for her. (I won't talk about a 26 y/o man falling in love with a 15 y/o teenager, the man is from 1727, at this point it's not even the same culture okay??)

I thought I'd still give it a chance and root for them, even if I was fully aware of him leaving and Spike would be the new romance (I FORGOT THE WASTE OF TIME WITH RILEY), because they actually talked about all the issues, they knew something was off with their love story but they couldn't stop.

I have not much to say about the nature of their love, it was a cute romance at best, but the more they went further the cringier it'd get, I still have trauma about their kiss noises, no kidding.

They slept together and Angel becomes Angelus, which is supposed to be sad and add some angst, but Angelus was so charismatic, I didn't care about Angel anymore.

And what can I say? I think the soul vs no soul aspect played kinda badly, they all said that Angelus was incapable of love since he had no soul, but we had the concrete proof that love was possible thanks to Spike & Drusilla to begin with ??

I was hoping that, since they sold us their love as super powerful and intense, Angelus would end up falling in love with Buffy, especially after the episode in which both are possessed by ghosts in season 2 episode 19 - I Only Have Eyes for You - which is my favorite moment between them:

but NO, Angelus cannot love, and only Angel can:

It's either we get the flavored guy but no romance or the bland one with a half romance.

Talk about the greatest love story there.

And the whole season 3 is Angel and Buffy having a teen romance:

"Let's just hold hands and kiss but nothing else"

Of course I guess this kind of love story is possible, but it is made clear they both feel the sexual tension each time they kiss, they even dream of doing it. So the only thing that comes of it, is frustrating feelings, for Buffy, for Angel and for us watching them going nowhere.

The hottest moment they have is when Angel bites her to survive.

Surely for a love story that is sold to be so grand, I expected Angel to find a cure for the curse? And fight for his love or something?

♫ Nope, he just leaves. ♫

♫ Bitch talks about fighting for what is worth and bails out at the first difficulty. ♫

i cannot even blame Joyce here, she made the right call, for real. Mother knows best, but he had the chance to prove her wrong.

And in parallel to that we are introduced to Spike, a vampire with no soul who is one hundred times worth Angel, just by existing.

And there is so much to say, whether or not Spuffy was intended, whether or not Angel is supposed to be the love of Buffy's life; After reaching seven seasons, I can guarantee without any hesitation, that Spike is the one, there is no contest.

I can't, for the life of me, believe one second that Joss Whedon and the rest of the team wrote the enemies to lovers story of the last two decades without doing it on purpose? They were so much into Angel, to realize what was happening?

They sold me Angel and Buffy being the "forever love", and, in a way, they are, but only because they cling to the "what could've been".

Of course they will always be attracted to each other until they really try. They'll always idealise their love story and fill the plotholes with their imagination. But it is dramatically bound to end in disaster.

And no, Buffy, I cannot take you seriously when you say "I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life" ; You were a teenager, it is normal to feel more deeply when you're 16, but that doesn't mean anything, and you know it too well.

Angel left her broken, unable to trust anyone, unable to trust herself and alone: If the love of her life doesn't want to be with her, then who will? (♫ We have an idea ♫ )

Soul or not, he has been a coward, with no intent to get to know Buffy, her family, her friends. He decided what was best for her without asking her.

All he does after that, is coming back into Buffy's life at the worst moments to be jealous.

♫ He is that toxic boyfriend who comes back with puppy eyes each time you try to move on. ♫

Every time he appears in an episode it's to disappoint even more: I was rooting for him, I even missed him A LOT in season 4 !

And, sure, meanwhile, the dance between Spike and Buffy was already ongoing since season 2, but we really didn't have any concrete scenes between them that could seal the ship for good (them under Willow's spell in season 4 doesn't count). So the best option at that moment was the hope for Angel to come back.

Buffy never really had the chance to move on from Angel because of Riley and his insecurities, but also because Angel cannot seem to move on, while moving on at the same time ? ! ? ♫ Bitch has a child ♫

The moment Angel left the show, it should have been for good. (Note aside, I'm still having a hard time believing the character had his own spinoff because of his popularity, when we barely saw him hanging around in the first 3 seasons, wouldn't have it been simpler for him to stay and have more scenes, like Spike?) • Riley & Buffy (Briley??)

And so Angel never came back, and we got Riley instead. He was the perfect choice to make the bridge between Bangel and Spuffy. She needed to experience a "normal" romance, with a "normal guy" to know what it's like and to understand what she really wants, but one season and a half was way too much. ♫ I ended up googling " WHEN is Riley LEAVING? "♫ The moment Buffy said she held back her strength when training with him, was enough to see what was coming.

Riley was nothing else than just an army guy under steroids who couldn't even handle his girlfriend being stronger than him.

Him blaming Buffy for not really being around when her mother was dying was the cherry on top of the loser's behavior.

Buffy needed someone with whom she could be 100% herself, an equal, and Riley knew he wasn't half of that; so he made her pay? By cheating on her and leaving? Then coming back a year later to brag about his wedding? Lmao give me a break Riloser.

So now Buffy is alone AGAIN, both men she thought she loved, left without looking back. ♫ Over my shouuulder ♫

And from those two relationships, we can already see what she needs in a romance:

- An emotionally available man - That can be there for her without pushing her - Someone who doesn't flee the second he encounters the smallest difficulty - A man strong enough for her to unleash the full force without being afraid of hurting him ♫ yes i'm talking about sex ♫ - Someone who understands her role as the slayer and her crazy life - Someone selfless capable of protecting her family and friends - Someone she can trust.

♫ And now, ladies and gentlemen, lets welcome ♫

• Spuffy:

Ok first a bit of context here: I disagree about people criticizing Buffy season 6 Lets just understand whats going on: Bitch sacrifices herself to save the world and her sister; at that moment, she feels peace for the first time in her life, for the first time she is not afraid to die and fulfill her destiny by choice. She has an heroic death, ends up resting in paradise...

♫ Then her friends who can't handle to live without her, decide to bring her back to life. ♫

Not only she comes back to life in her fucking coffin, she also: - Has to crawl to the surface (almost dying stupidly) - Has to act as if nothing happened - Has to be the slayer again - Cannot even go back to university - Has even less prospect for a normal life - She is poor - She needs to find money (ends up working in a fast food) - Has to thanks her friends for bringing her back to the life she never wanted - Is being blamed for not really being around.

♫ I WOULD HAVE BEEN SO FUCKING PISSED YOU CANNOT EVEN IMAGINE ♫

So what? She comes back, feels different, depressed, alone AGAIN and figuratively chained to a life she still doesn't want, and the only person who does understand what she is going through is Spike. Spike who has been here for her family and friends the whole time she was dead, meaning, he did it because he wanted to, because he felt genuine pleasure in hanging out with them while keeping his promise to protect Dawn.

He could have left, but never did, even though his love was one-sided, he loved her so much he stayed.

♫ Death couldn't do them apart ♫

He has been a father figure for Dawn, but not only that, Spike was also the only vampire Joyce liked and trusted, a presence she didn't mind in her home without Buffy around.

And Spike did love Joyce very much ♥

And I have so much to say about Spike, he is that multi-flavored character with so many layers, who stays interesting with or without a soul. He is a slayer's killer, seen as one of the most dangerous vampires, that anyone should be scared to be around, he has so much confidence in himself, he doesn't even mind being so freaking pathetic when it comes to love.

He is not even afraid nor ashamed to show his affection, to be vulnerable, to be open about it, and most of it, he just embraces it without a care of the outcome, he is just living by the day, knowing perfectly that everything could stop at any moment. Though, that being said, i'm still well aware Spike has also MANY flaws, all he does is mainly driven by love but it is still extreme and twisted due to his soulless condition. I really don't know where to start, because i feel like Buffy and Spike's destinies are intertwined - They are a mirror to each other. Buffy's behavior has anything to do with Spike, as Spike's behavior has anything to do with Buffy - it is really like watching a dance.

Spike allows her to embrace and explore the darkest part of herself - She was always the perfect girl everyone expected her to be.

She needed to do good, to BE good, but what if she, for once, chose the other side? Of course she never went as far as Faith did, but she allowed herself to fall into a forbidden romance, and to go against everyone's expectations, because she only felt something when she was with him. And i loved this part of her, because to me, she finally has flaws! I mean, she always had some but not to that extent. And maybe, maybe being like this, was a way for her to never fall completely into the darkness nor into Spike's influence.

Maybe she was in an inner battle between good and bad.

Maybe it was an unconscious way to either push him away, or test him to see if he will ever leave her. Abusive or not towards Spike, let's not forget that he is still William the bloody, and the only thing that stops him from killing anyone is the chip in his brain. We're still talking about the guy who would have easily killed Willow if he had the chance, the one Buffy wouldn't trust at all without that said chip.

Even though Spike has done TREMENDOUS good deeds with the scoobies, he is still a slave to his primary emotions.

Don't get me wrong, this is why i love Spike SO MUCH, his duality as a soulless vampire is everything. The man can talk to you about his favorite romantic show and a minute later kill someone in cold blood and find a great pleasure in both.

♫ Anyway ♫

Above all things, they are in love, and this love is extremely intense, deep, powerful, unbearable and terrible.

Thanks to Tara, Buffy realizes she did not come back as any different as before she died and realizes the horrors she has committed to Spike by treating him like a monster he never trully was.

Buffy ends up admitting her wrongs and grows out of her darkness and chooses to be good and to end her relationship with Spike. And she is glowing and glimming, and she's not his anymore.

Which leads Spike to end up doing something awful.

And what does he do after that??

He leaves the city...

♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ TO FIX HIMSELF ♫ ♫ ♫

Ladies and Gentlemen, we are in the year 2002, and yes you read me well:

THE BAD GUY GOES TO FIX HIMSELF TO BE WORTHY OF THE GIRL

♫ William the bloody risked his fucking life in a trial to get back his soul ♫

She doesn't fix him, he does it on his own because he knows something must be done to repair his wrongs, that his love needs to be purified of his monstrous side to be a better man and stand at her side.

And even though she doesn't know that, she is still looking for him, even after what he has done, she is always drawn to him, she always wants to be around him.

Then she learns he got his spark back for her and she does everything in her power to keep him by her side.

Because now it is time for Spike to embrace the brightest part of himself thanks to Buffy.

I love them so much, especially in season 7 because they don't even have to act romantically to show how deep their love is for each other. How simple it has become, how instinctive their complicity is. They know how to complement each other, it is almost symbiotic.

They are clearly not ready to be together again until they really sort things out but Spike has seen the best and the worst parts of her, and is still hers entirely, and will always be.

As much as Buffy has seen the best and worst parts of him, and she still trusts and loves him to the point of asking the initiative to remove the chip in his brain. ♫ On top of desperately not wanting him to die ♫ Also, without knowing it yet, she is entirely his and will always be.

Buffy sees Spike’s worth, and Spike sees Buffy’s, even when neither of them can see their own.

They lift each other up, and become an unbreakable force, to the point that no one can split them.

And this is one of my favorite parts of Spuffy, in season 7:

Before, she would never have let Spike kill a human, not even out of revenge. But now, she’s willing to let his shadow take over if it means keeping him alive, just as he learns to hold it back. To me, episode 17 - Lies My Parents Told Me - marks how far their connection has grown: Buffy running as fast as she can to save Spike Spike's past with his mother, helping him make peace with some of it, as part of his ongoing redemption arc ♫ it broke my heart ♫ Spike coming back to his senses to beat the shit out of Robin, and giving him a last chance Buffy telling Robin she'll let Spike kill him next time he even tries to harm Spike Buffy choosing Spike over Giles Buffy choosing Spike over the "common sense" Buffy choosing love over her duty (even if she pretends otherwise) ♫ Buffy, you cannot fool Spike, but you cannot fool us either! ♫

And i love this parallel with the end of season 2 when she had to choose duty over love and kill Angel. This is Buffy allowing herself to be a bit more selfish while Spike is allowing himself to be a bit more selfless.

And then in the middle of the biggest battle of her life, she is overthrown over shitty excuses ♫ i have a LOT to say about the Scoobies but that post is insanely long to add some salt ♫ and who is the one that still has her back? Spike. Spike has always been unconditionally here for her and never let her down, which even the Scoobies didn't always do.

Spike is the one who delivers the most selfless and beautiful love declaration of the whole show, to her. When she needs it the most, because he is the only one who can see her.

And his love is what gives strength to Buffy to trust herself and pursue her goal. He is the one who brings back the light in Buffy, who pushes her to live and accept her fate as being the one.

And talking about light,

♫ What a freakin' poetry to have centered Spike's whole redemption arc around it ♫

He was always pursuing that light, whether in Cecily when he was a human or Buffy as a vampire. All he had to do was bring the light into him and embrace his humanity to fulfill his redemption. And so he makes the ultimate sacrifice, And he glows. Not only he saves the world willingly and selflessly but he also gives back the fire inside Buffy, frees her from Sunnydale and her role as the sole slayer.

♫ "I love you" - "Spike" are the last words Buffy says in the show ♫ • Conclusion A freaking long ass post only to say that to me, Spuffy is very well written as enemies to lovers, thanks to Jane Espenson, Douglas Petrie & Marti Noxon. Though i think Spike still suffers some injustices, but I'm glad he got the respect he deserves in the comics, (which i consider canon) : Not only does Spike end up as part of the Scoobies but also with Buffy, and he is the only one with whom she fights for their relationship to last. ♫ And they're endgame in season 12 ♫ (Thank you Christos Gage)

I also think JW made many mistakes for Bangel to work: I know he was kinda annoyed by Spike's popularity at first and wanted Angel to be seen as the main vampire of the franchise, which led him to give Angel his own spinoff, but by doing that, he also broke the link between Buffy and Angel. Which ultimately led Spike to have a more organic evolution with her instead of Angel. They both had their own paths in their own separate worlds, which forced JW to accept Spuffy as being the logical conclusion. Just as Cordelia was also the best choice for Angel to grow and be more open about his emotions. Claiming in interviews that Angel is the love of Buffy's life without ever demonstrating it concretely in any of the media itself makes this statement fall flat. I do not hate Bangel, I think the ship was necessary for Buffy to grow, but i do see more Angel as her first idealised and tragic love, while with Spike, it is more grounded, mature and based on mutual respect, trust, acceptation and stability.

♫ Angel should have stayed and Spike and Drusilla should have had their own spinoff, and i'd have paid to see that. ♫ • My pov on Sprusilla?

Literally nothing to say about them, they match each other freak to a level no one can ever comprehend.

♫ They are a perfect match and untouchable. ♫ ♫ May they end up together again and last for eternity. ♫

♫ With animals. ♫ (alive)

[paperpuzzles]

I can’t stop thinking about what Buffy the Vampire Slayer would have been like if season 3 had a Buffy/Faith/Angel love triangle. Not the heteronormative one. The one where Buffy is in love with both Angel and Faith.

Think about it. As Buffy secretly nurses Angel back to health when he comes back from hell, Faith is introduced. Buffy knows her relationship with Angel is doomed/trouble trusting him after what he did to her as Angelus/guilt for killing him. Between helping Angel and her “normal” life, slaying with Faith is ironically the only time she can relax. Faith is newer to the scoobies, so Buffy opens up to her about everything and confides in her. Their bond deepens and feelings develop. They start secretly hooking up during their patrols. At the same time, Angel is getting better and things might be starting to happen between him and Buffy again. Faith finds out and gets understandably upset. Buffy is torn between them, and comes to the painful conclusion that while she loves Angel, their relationship is impossible. She realizes she also loves Faith and wants to see where that goes. But as she’s about to tell Faith she chose her, they are attacked which is what leads to Faith accidentally killing the deputy mayor. Faith’s reaction to killing him alarms Buffy so she pulls away from Faith instead of confessing her feelings. Then Buffy finds out Faith slept with Xander, which hurts and confuses her even more. There would also be a very real and sweet moment where she admits everything to Giles, who validates and supports her as she comes to terms with her bisexuality.

Angel and Buffy grow back together. Faith, in cahoots with the mayor now, is hurt and wants to get back at Buffy. This leads to the episode where Faith tries to get with Angel and Angel pretends to be Angelus to find out what she and the mayor are up to.

In their final fight of the season, Buffy confesses her love to Faith and that she would’ve chosen her over Angel. This catches Faith off guard long enough for Buffy to get the upper hand and tearfully stab her. Thinking she’s killed Faith, Buffy laments that Faith died thinking Buffy only said what she said to throw her off, when Buffy meant every word.

Angel would witness this, which would be part of what triggers him breaking up with Buffy since he wants her to have a real relationship like the one she could’ve had with Faith. In the final battle against the mayor, Buffy says something about the mayor corrupting the girl she loved.

THEN SEASON 4 Faith is EXTRA pissed when she wakes from the coma bc not only did Buffy try to kill her Faith thinks their whole relationship was a lie and ON TOP OF ALL THAT BUFFY HAS A NEW BF and even later Faith and Angel REALLY have to sort thru their personal issues with each other along with Faith’s redemption arc then SEASON 7 Buffy and Faith FINALLY have an honest and heartbreaking conversation about their relationship and their love was real but there’s too much broken trust between them to start back up romantically though they will always love each other WHAT THESE SHOWS COULD HAVE BEEN

[camellcat]

y'all I used to be normal about xander harris. I used to go yeah y'know I like him he's just a totally normal guy. I think he's really sweet actually, but hey I completely understand why some people may not like him

but the way the fandom treats him has pushed me SO far into defense it's like rewired my brain or something. actually he's done nothing wrong ever. I don't even care anymore. I take back every critique I've ever made of him. you don't Get Him like I do. he's written as terribly inconceivably ooc sometimes and you're all treating it like it's NORMAL!!!! when other characters are NOT subject to the same bullshit even when they're sometimes written even worse. we can wave away SO much shit for others, but xander? no, no, no. and when he IS in character, does ANYONE care to perhaps I dunno EXAMINE WHY HE'S ACTING LIKE THAT? oh? no? we're just gonna take it at face value, when we would not do that for any other character??? when he's written off and sometimes even intentionally off, then that's perfectly in line and just Who He Is Actually

I need to talk about the pack specifically because I have GRIEVANCES with the fandom here. what in the actual hell is going on. why are we acting like the possession was who he really is deep down??? it's clear that the hyena spirit is simply taking him at his base sort of thoughts I suppose (e.g., him having a hard crush on buffy, being jealous of angel, secretly knowing about willow but not requiting) and amplifying them to be HORRIBLE. at the end, he's visibly guilty over what he's done despite it being out of his control. he doesn't say anything because how COULD he? what would he even say? these are the most important people in his life, and he was forced to hurt them. and they obviously forgive him and don't blame him for what happened, because he's not exactly subtle about remembering, and I sincerely doubt they'd just let what he did slide if they thought he truly was responsible. these guys are all with the silent communication, and it's not always good, but it's how they roll. also, GUYS. THINK OF SPIKE'S MOTHER!!!! THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMILAR SITUATION!!!!! he has never in the entire time we've known him actively go out of his way to hurt people the way he does in this episode. because that's not who he is or who he ever wants to be

I also want to talk about how brave he is. I keep seeing people calling him a coward and it genuinely baffles me. are we watching the same show? what are you ON about?? even the show points it out: he's completely and utterly human, and standing up to fight evil on the front lines with everyone else anyways. there two absolute standout moments I especially adore and want to point out. and there ARE more moments, but these are my favourite. the first is when xander decides that if no one else will, he'll go help buffy fight the master, and alone if he has to. and he saves buffy, because he TRIED. I honestly don't think anyone else would've tried to save her once they saw she'd died like they were all told she would, but he did. because that's who he is. and the second is one my friend pointed out to me that is just so good, where xander stands up to angelus in the hospital. angelus could snap him in half within a blink of an eye, and xander tells him to leave. he's terrified, because he KNOWS if angelus wanted to then he'd be dead without being able to fight back, but he guards buffy like a little dog facing up against a lion. he wouldn't win, but maybe he could buy her just a little more time, maybe someone would notice and help her, maybe angelus will decide it's too much effort and leave like he desperately hopes, maybe maybe maybe. he's gambling with his life here, just like before by walking into the master's nest, and he'd do it again without a second thought to protect his loved ones. he DOES do it, again and again and again over the course of the show

this isn't to say xander doesn't have his flaws. he's not the best boyfriend for sure, and while those are mostly out of his own insecurities and trauma, it's still not a great. I don't give any of the other characters that excuse to let bad relationship behaviour slide and I won't give him it either, but it is at the least an explanation. that is just a real flaw that he struggles with throughout the whole show outside of anything else. he can also be very snippy and mean when he's feeling defensive, and he's got a bit of a possessive, jealous streak that isn't fantastic, but he's the heart for a reason. in fact I honestly think those traits work really well as cons for the heart

the xander we see in the show is someone who wants to be good and do good. he cares so, so immensely for everyone. EVERYONE who sticks around in this show, does xander latch onto to as one of his own people to look out for. he tries and tries and tries to do the right thing, to protect and take care of the ones he loves in any way he can, and he kind of sucks at it sometimes. he makes the wrong choices even when he means well, and sometimes when he doesn't. but god is he trying harder than almost anyone else on that show to just be A Good Friend. I'm going to go so far as to say I think he is actually a better person than almost every other character on this show (other than buffy and tara of course)

why isn't he enough when there are other characters who are SO much worse than him in this show?

[madameisaacpereire]

cheerily, francis.

❝The last time you set eyes on Francis Abernathy was Henry’s funeral, eight years ago. Why you haven't kept in touch better, you don’t know. But then again, maybe you do.❞

The first person to visit Francis after his attempt is you.

been sitting on this one a long time, unsure how to end it. have fun crying

read on ao3 + the guardian angel collection

   The moment you open the letter, the envelope falls to the ground. Your hands tremble, and you barely remember to grab your purse or coat as you rush back out onto the streets of New York, front door gaping open behind you. You wave a hand in the air, gaze never wavering from the stationary in hand. A cab to the train station. A train to Boston. You read and re-read the letter your entire way, trying to make sense of those neat swirls of pen ink.

  “Dearest Angelus:

    I wish I could say something that might make you feel better. My life has been in a process of dissolution for a good deal of time now, the details of which I don’t intend to bore you with. You need not know each sordid detail, only that I’ve considered you so dear to me since the moment we met that I cannot depart without leaving you a few words.

   I’ve thought a lot about what I’d like to say to you as my time on this plane wraps up. It occurs to me this may be much harder for you to accept than anyone else, due to the way things ended with Henry, and more than anything I’d like your forgiveness for that.

   I have done more than you know, yet it is, perhaps, what I haven’t done you’d find most disappointing. I wish I could say more. But I promised Henry. If I run into him on the other side, we’ll wait for you. I swear we’ll tell you everything. Don’t rush it.

   I saw your engagement announcement in the paper. Give my love to the lucky old sod, though I’m certain he’s undeserving. Take care of yourself. Be as happy as you can. Remember me as I was at the country house that first summer. When it was just the four of us.

    And don’t be too disheartened by any of this, darling. Please.

     Cheerily,

                  Francis”

   The last time you set eyes on Francis Abernathy was Henry’s funeral, eight years ago. Why you haven't kept in touch better, you don’t know. But then again, maybe you do. It would be too difficult to see each other regularly, now, Henry’s absence a dazzling reflection in each-other’s company. You aren’t meant to smoke on the train car. You do anyway. Heavy, bitter, walnut flavored smoke dulls your senses. Nobody complains, though you’re certain you receive more than your fair share of dirty looks.

  Ash swings back and forth through the air gently, dropping from your cigarette, and streaks gray across your beige slacks. You hardly notice. You don’t hear the stops, or watch the watercolor East Coast towns and cities whirl by. Every now and again you hear murmured prayers in a voice weak and feminine and unrecognizable; you haven’t considered yourself a practicing Catholic in years- not since Henry’s death- but desperate people always seem to find faith, don’t they? And in this moment, you’re desperate. 

   It takes you no time at all to turn up at the hospital, once you’re off the train. Your shoes click against the linoleum floor. Your voice cracks, but the nurses don’t, of course, no matter how much you plead. A pretty blue eyed blonde rests a delicate hand on your elbow, engagement ring glinting in the garish hospital light. Her hair is tied back by baby blue ribbon, a matching cardigan buttoned tight. She reminds you of Marion, dimly. 

    “I’m Priscilla,” She introduces herself brightly, even through the traces of worry creasing her face, “Which of Frankie’s friends are you?”

   Hearing him called something so domestic and sickeningly adorable is jarring. You’d used that same nickname once, as a joke, and Francis had ignored you for two weeks as penance. You can’t detect any thoughts behind Priscilla’s crystal eyes. An ache presses deeper into your chest. She guides you to the waiting room and brings you a paper mug of hot coffee. You tip two sugar packets into it absently, though you haven’t taken sugar in your coffee in years.

   You wait for what feels like hours before you’re allowed into Francis’s room. They’ve settled him someplace private, at least, so he won’t have to endure the humiliation of having a roommate. He looks frail and microscopic in that bed, wrists wrapped tight in white bandages. He looks pained, then settled once he notices you behind Priscilla- who he sends to fetch an array of meaningless items as soon as she lets him get a word in edgewise. 

   “Tell me you have a cigarette, angelus.” He reaches a shaking hand out. 

   You tap one out of your pack and light it for him, happy to supply comfort while you can. He smokes greedily, like at any moment it’ll be taken from him, and tips his head back against the thin hospital pillow in rapture. You sit in the chair beside his bed, but he motions you over as though such distance is preposterous, so you sit gingerly on the edge of the hospital bed. He clutches your hand in his like a lifeline and there’s so much you’d like to say. None of it feels right. Francis must know this. He helps himself to another cigarette the moment he finishes this one, working the pack from your pocket.

   “She has this idea in her head that I ought to quit.” He says after a moment, disdain and despair dripping from his words. 

   “Are you really engaged?” You ask, lighting a cigarette for yourself.

  “Oh, yes,” He sits up a little more, wincing when he tries to put weight on his wrist, “I have to. My grandfather’s going to cut me off if I don’t.”

   “Melodramatic.”

  “Quite. I was seeing a lawyer before. A bit of a drunk. Harvard graduate, anyway, but my grandfather found out about it. He wasn’t pleased, to say the least.”

  You squeeze his hand gently.

   “My cousins call her The Black Hole.” He rifles around in his bedside drawer, retrieves a framed photo of Priscilla, and ashes his cigarette on it. He holds it out for you to do the same.

  “Why is that?” You ask, amusement curling up the corners of your words like burning parchment.

   “She sucks all the conversation out of the room the moment she steps foot in it.” 

   You laugh. It’s the first time you’ve really laughed at something in a long time, at least, in this carefree way. Francis laughs too, though it comes out more pained than yours as he twists the engagement ring on your finger.

   “I was dreadfully disappointed when I saw you were engaged.” He says after a moment, all traces of humor gone. 

   “Mark’s perfectly nice.” The words come out jagged and defensive by mistake. You never told him where you were off to, you realize guiltily.

   “I’m sure he is, darling, of course. But we would have had considerably more fun with this whole marriage deal, I’d like to think. I’d much rather have asked you.” He’s trying to mask his misery, but you pick it out anyway. 

   You lean down and kiss his forehead softly. You’d have married Francis in a heartbeat, honestly, had he asked first. There’s nothing you won’t do for a friend so dear to your heart, and the two of you have always gotten along so well. Spending years in his company would be a treat. All the time you'd have to read, discuss, how you'd orbit each-other in that well worn, comfortable way. 

Even so, you would have missed the romance. Perhaps it’s for the best.

   “I’m sorry I couldn’t help.” You murmur against his forehead before you sit back up. 

   He smiles. It’s wan and awful, but it’s a start.

   “As am I, darling. As am I,” His eyes are glassy with something he blinks away, clearing his throat, “Now tell me all about this Mark. I’m desperate for distraction.” 

    You squeeze his hand and move closer, until you’re lying side by side. It’s reminiscent of all those nights that first summer, spent talking late into the night. He’d kissed you once, back when he still hoped he might like women in some capacity, and it had been dreadful. Not even the smallest spark. You had both laughed, then, and sworn never to speak of it. The memory warms your heart; you were young adults together, however short lived, and this you will always share.

   “These pillows are ghastly, aren’t they?” You muse as you settle in.

   “I’m being very brave, not complaining about them.” Francis says gravely.

   “I should say you are! They should give you a purple heart or something, just for that.” 

   “The Nobel Peace Prize.”

   “That too.” You laugh softly, bringing your cigarette to your mouth.

      You’re both quiet a moment. Thoughtful. Then:

    “He doesn’t take sugar in his coffee,” You start, “He likes cream better. But he’s tall, incredibly so, with this beautiful dark hair and attracts attention just by existing. He works for Henry’s father.”

   Francis listens as you talk, absorbing each word with equal importance. 

   “I think today is the first time in months that I’ve lit my own cigarette more than once- he’s really rather gentlemanly, you know. Blue eyes- like sleet or ocean fog. A very… very slim sort of frame. He isn’t home very much, he’s incredibly dedicated to his work and all, but he’s always bringing me things. Little presents and such. And he’s okay with being…”

   “Second best to a dead man?” He supplies.  

    “Yes.” You don’t know that you’ve said it aloud before this moment. Tears prick at your eyes and nose.

   The hospital bed digs into your bones, you now notice, and the room is rather chilly. Hospital rooms always seem to be, at least in your experience. You wonder how long until Priscilla gets back. Perhaps it’d seem indecent, the way you’re lying, if she walked in on it, and yet you aren’t certain you care. Not really. This is Francis and you, as you’ve always been. A clock ticks in the background. Monitors beep and nurses stroll by, scrubs bright blue and unflattering. You much prefer the uniforms nurses wore when you were a girl- those soft blue dresses and plastic aprons- but times have a way of changing, whether you’d like them to or not. 

    “There really are so many things I wish I could tell you. About Henry and… well, everything that happened after you left.” 

    “I could piece it all together, I imagine, if I wanted to,” You cross your ankles, “But I like things how they are. Nice and neat. Clean, if you will.”

   Francis nods.

    “More for myself than you, I suppose.”

    “Isn’t every confession?”

     “I do think he loved you, too. In his own way.”

      This surprises you a bit. Not Francis saying Henry loved you, this feels obvious even if it never occurred to you in words, but the ‘too’ he tacks on. The admission that Francis has known, perhaps for years, how you feel for Henry. The fact that he’s had the decency not to say. 

   “I know.” 

   You’ve known all along. He loved you, or believed to, in a way you’ll never understand. A way you never really trusted him with. A way you aren’t sure you would have enjoyed or survived. 

   “Perhaps everything happened for the best.” You sigh and lean your head on Francis’ shoulder.

    “In some ways.” Francis agrees.

    You’ll have to return home tonight. And you should call Mark, so he knows you’re alright and doesn't make himself sick with worry. But that’s something to think about later. Right now it’s just you and a dear friend, staring at a crack in the wall without words. It’s sorrowful and relieving and nice, too, that you’ve gotten one last trip to the past. Perhaps you'll all meet up on the other side, as Francis said, and maybe then you’ll have answers. But you don’t want to rush it. You have time.

[spiderjellys]

i love you wendy the werewolf stalker

awesome guide, etc, etc

yj98 #33 & #34 / wtws textual & visual refs

what is it? :°

wendy the werewolf stalker is a dc comics tv show parody of buffy the vampire slayer, appearing mainly in young justice (1998). the tv show centers around a girl named wendy who hunts werewolves and assumedly follows the same basic concept as btvs, where she is the one girl chosen with powers to fight werewolves and assorted monsters. the first mention of it is in yj98 #8, when kon complains about potentially missing the new episode (which would've likely been doppelgangland equivalent based on the date). best issues to read are yj98 #33 & #34, which is where it appears as an actual tv show. it's referenced frequently in dialogue and visual appearances.

characters

wendy the werewolf stalker - played by: terri jewel jackson (t.j.). the wtws equivalent to buffy summers. she is an experienced hunter and fighter, who stalks and kills werewolves. she fights with a crossbow (loaded with red-fletched arrows, which i assume is for her visibility as well as wolves not seeing red) and a silver stake as well as hand-to-hand. shown to be physically strong enough to grapple with a werewolf. likely has preternatural powers giving her enhanced strength, speed, and reflexes.

paulo - played by: javier sanchez. the wtws equivalent to xander harris. a close friend of wendy. shown to help wendy seemingly unarmed, is physically strong enough to partially restrain a werewolf.

unknown name - played by: melody [last name unknown] (mel). the wtws equivalent to willow rosenberg. a close friend of wendy. there's like no character information at all, but she might be a witch like willow? shown hanging onto luella after a fight and has a "romantic fixation" on luella.

cherub - played by: unknown. the wtws equivalent to angel. star of his new spinoff, cherub. one of the love interests for wendy. the character is described by t.j. as a "brooding hunk". (since he's based off angel what would his ""evil name"" like angelus be. cherubic?? cherubim?? lmfao).

luella - played by: cissie king-jones. the wtws equivalent (very very vaguely) to tara maclay based on her romance with melody's character and the shift from guest star to recurring character. shown to be proficient with a bow (looks like a recurve bow?), seems to have some experience with the supernatural based on her easy acceptance of wendy being the werewolf stalker. melody's character has a "romantic fixation" on her, which is likely requited.

lupus - played by: rover [full name unknown]. a recurring (i'm guessing that the wolf shown in filming is the same one every time based on his design) werewolf antagonist who fights with wendy several times, once seemingly after escaping captivity based on his broken chain.

unknown - (will be) played by: jake ketchum. the wtws equivalent of spike (i think. it makes sense with the whole werewolf love interest thing and spike. broods? sometimes? i guess. but i like spike so i miiiight be biased! he also seems like riley finn with the "hiding a big secret about who they are" plot and the season 4 equivalency). a non-antagonistic werewolf who is one of wendy's love interests, who she discovers is secretly a werewolf. the character is described as a "serious, brooding hunk".

the creator of wtws appears as (a vampire) joe/josh westin, the equivalent to joss whedon (barf)

btvs equivalency sort of i guess

even though season 5 of btvs had fully aired by the time of yj98 #33 & #34 it seems like the season taking place that cissie guest stars in is btvs season 4. the cherub spinoff places it after btvs season 3, while luella's introduction aligns with tara's introduction in season 4. joe westin also makes a reference to the ratings being down, and season 4 was pretty badly received comparatively.

[raisedbythetv89]

I've been thinking about the invisible string of it all as it relates to spuffy for the last 48 hours and I'm still going INSANE about it 😹😭

So Liam/Angel/Angelus who uses young girls at best or abuses, psychologically torments and kills them at worst does the worst of the worst to Drusilla and once she's completely broken and hopelessly devoted to him and and only him he immediately loses interest which of course leads to the creation of Spike

Spike who is obsessed with slayers because instead of running from what is designed to destroy him he seeks it out and sees it as a fun and exciting challenge he learns from. Spike who killed two slayers, one who lost her weapon and the other who wished for death. Who's deaths are obviously instrumental in what brings about Buffy the Vampire Slayer being called (Spike also later both preventing the fulfillment of Buffy's death wish and helping her secure THE slayer weapon by giving her the strength she needs??? THE POETRY!!!!)

So Buffy is called when she's called because of all the slayer deaths that came before her and Angel's predatory selfishness and obsession with breaking young innocent girls leads to him eventually losing his soul. Which in combination with his need to constantly belittle Spike for genuinely loving for and caring for Dru aka being feminine and sensitive by taking Drusilla from him and constantly rubbing it in his face and making fun of him for being stuck in a wheelchair aka being weak and helpless (which only happened because he was trying to save Dru and heal her! Demonstrating how rooted in misogyny all of angel's behavior is soul or no soul) is what prompts the origins of Spuffy! Misogyny and cruelty at the hands of Angel combined with Spike and Buffy's determination to never give up no matter how hopeless the circumstances and never back down even if that means teaming up with your enemy is the birth of their relationship!!! They both would literally do anything for love!!! Be it an evil vampire saving the world or the Slayer teaming up with the Slayer of Slayers!!!! Which of course the truce is what causes Spike and Dru to break up which leads to Spike confronting Buffy with the reality about her relationship to angel and the true nature of it. Which of course angel is a manipulative monster who doesn't accept her breaking up with him and moving on so he threatens suicide and then they're back together and THEN once she's comfortable and secure around him, supported by joyce who both institutionalized and kicked buffy out for being the slayer - is like oop it's time to GO girl and breaks up with her in the dumbest most traumatic unresolved way possible and is what leads to her giving "normal" aka Riley a chance because Angel calls their relationship a freak-show and that she, the slayer.... should be normal.....

Which then in s4 Riley and the initiative try and tame and control both Spike and Buffy and when they can't they want them destroyed (the chip, the attempt on Buffy's life and her constantly feeling guilty for being stronger than him and being the slayer, Riley fake staking Spike for outing his betrayal to Buffy and literally blowing up their safe haven in s6) again pushing them together onto the same side, united against a common enemy in s4/5 or propelling them into growth in s6 when the goal was just destruction of Spike/Buffy's comfort in his presence and instead it starts the chain of events that leads to him getting his soul which allows Buffy to love him and let him back into her life and this time her own home without guilt or shame!!!

Then in season 7 both the chip (everything Riley represents) angel and even faith (with the most uncomfortable try hard flirting attempt I've ever seen the second hand embarrassment I get watching her try and hit on Spike is SO strong 🤢😭) try to come between them and pull them apart, create doubt or put them at odds, all fail as now they are an unshakable team that cannot be divided

Where before they were forced onto the same sides by outside forces they're now choosing each other again and again even in the face of outward hostility, disapproval and outright sabatoge from everyone in her life.

Spike and Buffy's relationship is the story of a young girl and a sensitive more feminine man turned vampire who were taught to hate their softness, their femininity, their big hearts, their otherness and were literally designed to destroy each other. Who when the universe kept forcing them together instead of destruction they alchemized the misogyny, abuse and homophobia (as the supernatural is used many times as a metaphor for queerness) they endured both individually and together into liberation for young girls (in the show but for the audience it's representative of liberation for all victims of abuse or oppression no matter your gender identity) everywhere while breaking all the ties that sought to control them and it was all started with Angel's destruction and subsequent abandonment of Drusilla! An abusive predatory man's actions unwittingly lead to the empowerment of THOUSANDS of super-powered young girls who are now able to fight back against monsters like him. Showcasing how abusers and tyrants always create their own downfall because of people like Spike and Buffy who in the face of adversity and pain grow better and stronger out of sheer determination.

There is also a fan theory that Dru was a potential who was about to be called and that's why she was plagued with visions so if all of this is like the ULTIMATE slayer's line revenge on both the council and the original cowardly men who used a young girl to fight their battles for them and on men like angel who lost his control over Buffy and had to watch her chose Spike over him both in s7 when she sends him away and in the comics that makes all of this even more iconic like the ultimate long game revenge but even if it's not and Dru wasn't a potential - an abusive monster who loves to target the weak and helpless tormenting and killing a young innocent girl starting the chain reaction of events that leads to the largest liberation of young girls who would have been exploited and controlled by the council and doomed to short lives full of nothing but fighting and isolation is just fucking incredible 😭 and that is what spuffy represents and what that relationship means to me and why no matter what shit joss tried to throw at us through the narrative or what the anti's say to this day - none of it ever sticks because spuffy is literally about dealing with abusive people just like him and overcoming the pain they cause and turning it into personal growth and healing.

[coraniaid]

I'm imagining an alternate take on Becoming where Jenny Calendar survived Passion -- let's say that Kendra came back to Sunnydale much earlier than in canon and managed to save her, perhaps -- and so she gets to be involved in the big group argument about whether or not restore Angel's soul (which now happens a lot sooner, of course).

I think the other Scoobies fall into much the same camp as in canon. Xander, Cordelia and Kendra are still against doing it while Buffy and Willow are drawn to the idea that Angel might somehow be saved (and if Oz has an opinion that isn't in complete agreement with Willow he doesn't offer it). The only character I think who might change sides here is Giles. In canon he's in favor of the plan, at least in part because "curing Angel seems to have been Jenny's last wish". But in a world where Jenny didn't die (but Angel still tried his best to kill her), I think he's probably a lot less forgiving.

Not wanting to risk giving Angel another opportunity to hurt the people Giles cares about -- and thinking that Buffy herself has a tendency to be too willing to give people second chances, especially when said people are attractive and occasionally soulless vampires -- just seems a lot closer to the way Giles is written in most of his appearances.

Giles has always, up to this point, been one of the biggest advocates for the idea that vampires are nothing like people ("a vampire isn't a person at all ... it's still a demon at the core"). He knows more than anyone (except possibly Jenny) the details of what Angelus has done, and (from his own youthful experiments) how magic can go wrong if improperly used. He murdered Ben behind Buffy's back, and tried to have Spike killed against Buffy's express wishes, because he thought both of them were dangerous and didn't think Buffy was right to show them mercy.

Of course you can make the argument that the Giles we see on the show post-Passion acts the way he does precisely because he's lost Jenny, and that he wouldn't possibly have done any of that if she'd been alive. But, well, the version on screen is the only version of Giles we actually get to see: anything else is just speculation. And it really feels to me that, without that sense of honoring Jenny's dying wish, Giles is probably a lot more willing to agree with Kendra when she makes the case that "Angel is a vampire ... he should die".

In this AU I imagine, Jenny herself is the one to bring the idea of restoring Angel's soul to the group, and she's mostly quiet during the ensuing arguments. Maybe she looks a bit nonplussed when Buffy talks about "curing" Angel, but I think she only speaks up when Xander tries to directly appeal to her instead of shouting at Buffy and Willow. Maybe he says something about being surprised she'd take Angel's side after he tried to kill her. Giles shoots an apologetic look at Buffy and starts to say something about it not being so simple as taking sides.

Then Jenny interrupts and says matter-of-factly "oh, of course it's about taking sides, Rupert. I'm on the side that wants Angel to pay for what he's done. My family sent me to Sunnydale to make sure he was still in pain, and maybe if I'd done a better job none of this would have happened. I felt sorry for Angel once, and I'm glad he saved my life last year, but I'll never forgive him for what he did to my uncle and I don't think he should ever stop feeling bad about it either. That's why I'm going to curse him again. I want him to suffer."

And then when there's a slightly uncomfortable pause she looks around the room and says "... you do all remember how he murdered my uncle last month, right? Why did you think I was doing this?"

[acciofictionalmen]

bait - ANGELUS (btvs)

(angelus x female!reader one-shot)

summary : in a desperate attempt to catch angelus, the scoobies send you in as bait.

a/n: i don't usually write darker pieces of writing such as this, so lmk what you think ! :)

warnings : gets a bit spicy, sexual references, strong language used, angelus hurts reader, mention of blood, a sprinkle of yandere, kinda angsty?? 14+

"Angel?" You said uncertainly, pushing open the door to his apartment. It was unlocked.

The silence felt consuming, and you swallowed anxiously as you took small steps inside.

His bed was untidy, duvet strewn across the floor, "I came to ask for help, there's a demon-"

"(Y/n)? You're back?" He walked in after you. You forced yourself not to wonder whether he had been following you or not.

His voice startled you and you failed to suppress a flinch. You hadn't seen him like this yet, had only heard the chilling stories that Giles and the others had told you full of the details of what he was capable of. Buffy had been determined to keep you far away from Sunnydale, from the soulless demon, to hide you and ensure your safety. You had been face to face with Angelus before, and it hadn't turned out well. But things had changed, your situation had changed, and your friends needed help to defeat him. No matter the cost.

He looked almost exactly the same as always, except his brown eyes were filled with faux concern. "Are you okay?"

Angelus advanced towards you as your eyes flitted to the clock on the wall opposite. Seven and a half minutes. Then Buffy would be here, and Angelus would be caught and restrained. A couple of minutes. You could do that.

Yet you hadn't entirely been sure of your friends' plan- luring Angelus into one place would surely be something the two-and-a- half century old demon would expect. But your friends - Buffy especially - were desperate, and it seemed that the vampire couldn't resist an opportunity to spend time with you. To kill you, was your assumption. He had made it clear from the start that he delighted in these small games that you all played. What worried you was that he always left as the winner.

"Yeah, I have to write an article on Sunnydale's history; I'm an intern now at the Sunnydale Press." You explained, your confidence increasing, "I figured you could help. I arrived this morning and the others weren't home so.." You trailed off, uncertain if he'd bought it. You were doing a terrible job at pretending and you knew it, but the others insisted that it should be you who stalled Angelus. In the past he had always been slightly more lenient in a situation where you were involved.

"I thought you needed help with a demon?" He jested, and your heart dropped. He knew, and you were fucked. But there was nothing left to do except play along.

The vampire slowly advanced and you moved backwards, "Yes, uh, an article on the history of demons in Sunnydale."

Your back hit Angel's wardrobe, and the man opposite you smiled.

"I've never liked liars." He said absentmindedly, finger lifting your chin as he observed you. The fear in your eyes was evident and he inhaled your scent, distress seeping from your pores. "Tell me, (Y/n)," He began, closing what little distance was left between you. If he had been human, you would've been able to feel his breath hitting your face. You shivered. "-and don't lie," he continued, "do you ever think about me?"

You struggled against him, "Angel I-"

"Don't say his name," Angelus spat through gritted teeth as his hands harshly grabbed your wrists, keeping you firmly in place. "And feel free to keep struggling, precious, but just do it a little more to the left." He groaned.

You didn't respond, breathless and feeling nauseous. The both of you knew that you could easily resist him more if you tried, but Angelus knew that despite what you told yourself you didn't want to.

"At night, when you're in your small double bed, cushions propped up around you, hair down, head leant against the headboard, heart racing, in your thin, thin silk dress," He paused as though he were imagining it right then and there, imagining the fabric, imagining how when it hit the moonlight it was practically see-through, "the one in that pretty shade of periwinkle," his eyes found yours again, and you swore they darkened. You were shaking under his touch, terrified at the prospect of this, monster watching you when you were most vulnerable. During moments you had thought you were alone. Private moments. And how had he even known where your friends had hidden you? "-do you ever think about me?" He repeated, pressing into you as a warning that if you dared to lie, to even consider it, he would know. The frail, wooden wardrobe shook at the movement.

"Yes." You whispered, barely audible, eyes focused on anything but his face.

He removed his hand from your left wrist and tilted your jaw so that your eyes were forced to look into his brown ones. Angel's eyes, yet lacking Angel's warmth.

"Good, good." He dragged the words out as his tongue darted out to lick his lips.

Your eyes fell to his mouth, then hurriedly went back to his eyes. He was smirking, he'd noticed.

"And how," his face morphed into a vampire's, "does it make you feel?"

Tears brimmed in your eyes as he grinned, revealing his fanged teeth. A warning. It was pointless- his teeth would end up buried in your neck no matter what you said.

"Good." A salty tear fell onto your cheek, which he instantly swiped away with his thumb. "And I hate myself for it." You mumbled, voice breaking. You had always had an attraction to Angel, even during his relationship with Buffy, and the shame of it was suffocating. She had never been anything but good to you, and you had repaid her by stealing glances at Angel whenever you thought no one was looking.

However now it became clear that someone had been.

"What was that?" Angelus lowered his fangs towards your neck at a tantalisingly slow rate. As though he meant to drag out the pain, to burn this memory into your brain.

Your eyes fluttered closed in preparation as you whispered, "I hate myself for it every, day."

A small scream left your mouth as the door to Angel's apartment was broken off its hinges, clattering onto the floor only inches away from where the two of you were. Buffy.

Angelus slowly pulled himself off of you. As a result of the interruption, his fangs had only managed to puncture the top layer of skin, leaving behind two red dots that quickly began to pool with blood. Angelus licked the smudge of red off of his fangs, making a show of savouring the taste.

Your best friend and mentor, the slayer, began to fight the vampire as you tried to help at every possible opening, but it was no use. He easily escaped.

Your neck on fire, you gently brushed the tips of your fingers against it, pulling your hand away to see them coated in crimson blood. Something told you that Angelus would be back for more.

thank you for reading!! lmk your thoughts <33

[professeurm]

it confuses me ngl on ppl debate on the whole soul thing with angel

this is btw not a hate post angel. i love the brooding dumbass and like any character i would talk trash affectionately lol

obv im team spuffy. if u seen my post, u would know. i love the loser, great character development and story. plus the swag and wet cat vibes

but my little bro is team bangel. he hasnt gotten to the part where spike and buffy got together yet, he's by the ep with joyce died

one argument he makes is the whole soul thing. obv he doesnt know spike got a soul, not sure what he will say about that

and i feel like this is common from what i see in the fandom and it gets me confused cuz like even if u have a soul, u are still capable of making bad decisions and being a bad person in general

and we have seen angel make a ton of bad decisions, including in the relationships he has (not only love wise). im not saying angel is bad, but bro does have an evil twin and can tune in to his killer side if needed. plus he's a vamp, thats like so normal of them to be evil. he just got a more guilty conscience now

spike has done the same with or without a soul. he's aware of what he's doing, he has made some pretty fucked up decisions. does he regert? eh, that depends on what he did

the thing with spike and angel is that spike is more laid back when he does bad things. even when he has a soul. he's a vamp, he's a monster. he knows that and accepts it. he doesn't punish himself as hard as angel does. and i feel like because of that or at least one of the reasons, ppl shit on him

but like... thats so human. like not everyone punishes themselves when they do something bad. some think about it and move on. learn from it maybe. others just like "oops i did that. anyway"

and even spike has said it in his speech to buffy (s7):

"I don’t exactly have a reputation for being a thinker; I follow my blood, which doesn’t exactly rush in the direction of my brain."

which again is completely human. not everyone is smart, or able to sympathise with others, or able to pick up "normal" social cues, or able to pick up on things quick. ppl are different. angel and spike are different.

the way they communicate, the way they interact with folks, the way they think. its not because of their soul, its who they are as a person. well dead person lol

im just saying that the whole "angel is better cuz he has a soul" agrument is completely stupid

cuz angel is a tight ass, no offence. his ass is trying to be better and punish his ass harder than he should cuz of what he did as angelus. he doesn't want to be that person again and honestly its great he's trying his best

and spike is... he's just spike. he's a dumbass rebel who is trying to do right for once. This had nothing to do with the soul. simply that he saw buffy and got inspired to be a good man. and good for him but he's still the same. difference is that he's allowing his soft side open up more, allowing himself to grow and all

[sexcromancy]

the thing about bangel. stop me if youve heard this one before. but the thing is it would be SO much more interesting for the show to treat him as one whole person, rather than so specifically delineating between angel and angelus. and i think in the world of the show that is largely the case - the characters, as much as they want to, cannot separate them, which is what the episode amends is all about. but in all external discussions there is so much falling back on "no, that was angelus, he can't be accountable for that." well if you want to have your boyfriend turning on you after you sleep together metaphor it cant be both ways!!! the whole freaking point of whats so scary about the morning after scene in innocence is HE IS THE SAME PERSON. that scene does not hit the same way if you read it as some brain parasite taking him over. its so annoying to me to take such a potent and disturbing metaphor and undermine it completely by insisting that Angelus Is Different. give me a break. i dont even think anything needs to change about the show to use this lens - i am perfectly happy to ignore this kind of word of god stuff and/or interpret it as cope in-narrative - but its still ANNOYING.

[evvyyypeters-fics]

S3 E07 ot BTVS is one of the many episodes where Buffy’s friend piss me off SOOOOO BAD. Even Giles.

Buffy didn’t necessarily hide Angel being alive. She just didn’t tell them because it wasn’t important at the moment and it wouldn’t have made a difference other than them getting upset like they did. Not to mention she was more embarrassed about her relationship with Angel, them struggling with staying apart while he’s back and them trying to help each other.

I am by no means a Bangel shipper (as is obvious from my multiple other BTVS posts) but this episode just makes me so mad. I feel for Buffy in this scene, and me personally I would have chewed them out.

Coming at her about being with Angel. She literally told them that he got his soul back at the last moment before she killed him, and he’s had a soul since they met him—and despite knowing his crimes—they were fine with him. But as soon as he loses his soul and acts cruel towards THEM well NOW it’s an issue.

Them attacking her about “lying” but they won’t even let her speak and explain what happened. Acting as if she has some sort of “addiction” and isn’t idk…just a TEENAGER IN LOVE? If they had just actually let her speak and tell them what was going on instead of trying to tell HER what SHE is going through…And Giles teaming up with them. Like bro you’re an adult, you should understand Buffy isn’t “addicted” or has a “problem” with Angel, she’s just a girl in love. And you of all people know what Angel did before he had a soul and didn’t care to protect Buffy or her friends until he turned his back on yall. Honestly, if Angel didn’t kill Jenny, I don’t think he would have agreed with them. I think he would have defended Buffy. But because Angelus’s evil affected him, now Angel, with or without a soul is deemed “dangerous” and “reprehensible”

And this is not the only time Giles does something like this. I’ve seen people say that Giles wouldn’t let Buffy get kicked out of her house if he was there, BUT HE LITERALLY WAS! There was a single moment where he was in the room and he didn’t stand up for her. If anything, he was doing the same passive agreement where he tries to team with both sides but instead he ends up betraying Buffy. EEEUURRGHHHRNFJDNSJ

I wish Buffy would have actually gotten a moment to fully crash out and clock them and just list all of their bullshit they did to her and how much she did to carry their asses. We get a few small moments like that, but they’re never cathartic enough. Like let my girl CHEW. THEM. UP!!!!!

[ravelqueen]

One thing that is actually super interesting - character wise is how stark the difference between Angel and Angelus is when compared to Spike and be-souled Spike.

Angelus and Angel might as well be two completely different people - the way they act, react and conceptualise the world around them is honestly completely opposite.

Meanwhile, besouled Spike is a lot more aware of his past actions and isn't interested in killing humans for sport etc, but in the way he interacts with the world around him, he's actually still very similar - he's snarky and sarcastic, romantic yet cynical etc.

It's extra funny when you consider that probably this was never supposed to be a Deep Philosophical Ponderance Of The Nature Of A Soul

In my opinion this came out of happenstance: a writing choice forced on the Buffy team, based on when in the narrative it happened.

Angelus was always set up to be this enormous threat, this absolute monster tormenting Buffy, while Angel was supposed to be this fairytale first romance of a wonderful older boyfriend - the dichotomy was probably decided upon before /in season 1.

Spike on the other hand was never planned to get a soul - he wasn't even supposed to stick around longer than the 2nd season! However, the ensoulment made sense with the progression of the story/character if the writers wanted to adhere to the rules of the universe they set up namely:

Vampires are Evil Demons, inhabiting the body of the human before them, and most importantly they are irredeemable and incapable of true human affection. This is extremely important lore in that universe, because Buffy kills a lot of vampires - in the later seasons they aren't even really a major threat and more background ash. If you suddenly introduce the idea that Actually vampires can be fully redeemed, your main characters has been just murdering Possibly Good People willy-nilly for several seasons

Unfortunately, at this point in the narrative, Spike might as well have been ensouled already - he was acting altruistically, out of love (self-reported) and was mostly just helping our heroes, with motivations unrelated to villainous impulses

So really the writers had to give him a motivation to go and get his soul (the writing choices on how he gets there Being Bad notwithstanding).

HOWEVER, they really really couldn't pull the same move with Spike that they did with Angel re: his 180 degree personality switch simply because the audience liked non-soul Spike. They enjoyed the personality and character that had been crafted for the last 5 seasons, so changing him too much would have with almost complete certainty been met with negative reactions .

Which is why I assume they decided to simply soften parts of his personality, make him stop wanting to kill humans and called it a day on his other less-than-cuddly personality traits.

Which leads us to question on why two people in the same circumstances turned out so wildly different ESPECIALLY since William seemed Basically Alright when he's human.

Does that mean that Angel is fundamentally a worse person, only held back by the morality of his soul? Or that he was fundamentally a much more virtuous man and therefore the loss of his goodness had a larger impact, as removing those parts took away more of what he used to be?

That William was a lot more acerbic and mean deep down and therefore not too different? Or that actually William lost way less of his morality/capacity for empathy when he turned because Something and that led him to doing less awful things that would lead to a personality change??

Those are such interesting questions that somehow the show never addresses (as far as I know? comics people?) aside from Angel Being Mad that Spike got over his angst so quickly and it's just hilarious to me that if I'm right this basically was never meant to be that deep and simply just a byproduct of What The Fuck To Do With Spike

[autumnknight]

Angelus is back.

It's so funny that they take all the precautions to keep him restrained and whatnot because he's so very evil and vampires can never ever be trusted and at the same time Spike is chilling with the Scoobies.

He was the one person Buffy trusted to keep Dawn and Joyce safe and even with what Spike does at the end of season 6, Buffy still trusts him to keep Dawn safe.

Back to Angel.

Is Wesley the only one capable of anything in season 4. He keeps stepping up to actually provide intel and gets stuff done.