#intermediate plateau

[tokidokitokyo]

Language Learning Plateau

Recently I have found myself on a Japanese learning plateau and I just feel stuck. I have felt stuck for a long time, like I will never get off of this plateau. Have you ever felt stuck in your learning?

I decided that I wanted to make a real effort to escape from the plateau and to see some real improvement in my Japanese language ability. So here are my collected notes and advice on the process of overcoming the language learning plateau.

What is a Language Learning Plateau?

Your language acquisition was moving along smoothly, and then suddenly everything ground to a snail's pace. The most popular textbooks are too easy, native materials that suit your level and aren't too hard are challenging to find, and making your own study plan seems daunting.

Apparently this plateau is inevitable, because when you first start learning a language you make progress quickly with new vocabulary and grammar and writing systems, but as you learn more and acquire more skills, you naturally slow down. The language learning plateau is most common when learners reach an intermediate level of language proficiency.

The good news is, there are ways to get over this plateau. The challenge is that it will take some work on your part.

Why I have trouble finding resources

To try to overcome my learning plateau and feel like I was moving forward, I started looking for new resources. The trouble is that there are so many resources available online and in print, but the number is so vast that it feels difficult to pick one, and I worry that I will pick the Wrong One.

Reviews: Reading reviews of language learning materials can be endless, or it can be difficult to find a review of a particular book or online resource for anything other than beginner materials. There may also be a plethora of suggested materials, but you might waffle on which ones to pick.

Level: I am not entirely sure of what my level is since it is difficult to measure without an exam, but I think I have an idea of my general level (lower advanced - N3/N2). I have outgrown most early textbooks, and I often pick out JLPT workbooks because it is easier to judge their level. However, JLPT resources tend to be geared toward test taking and therefore sometimes they can be a bit limited. Non-JLPT materials are more difficult to determine the level for, so some may be too advanced and some may be a bit too low level.

Money: I don't have an unlimited budget, so I have to read reviews and try to gauge if I think the resource is worth the investment. Sometimes I purchase a resource and then I don't touch it because I don't have the time to sit down and work through it. I also download lots of apps but I often don't sit down to get used to them and figure out the best way to use them. Free materials are very useful, but I also find myself downloading too much and then I don't touch more than half of them.

Time: I am busy and don't have much time to dedicate to studying, so reviewing resources can be a huge time sink for time that I'd rather spend studying. I can spend so much time looking up resources that I don't actually pick one to use. I also don't have unlimited time to study, so while the JLPT workbooks or non-JLPT textbooks are good resources, I have to break each section into very small chunks to fit them into my schedule and it takes a long time to finish a resource.

How to overcome the Language Learning Plateau

Here are some tips on how to overcome the language learning plateau:

Set clear goals If you don't have a clear goal on what you want to work toward, your studying will be less focused and you might become frustrated with your lack of progress. Set clear goals that are based on what you want to achieve with the language to provide focus. Be realistic with your goals and your current level, and set a specific timeline for them.

Try new methods If you've been relying on textbooks thus far and are burnt out or don't find them useful, try something else. Get creative, and look to see what approach others take. Try immersion, finding a tutor, playing a game in your target language, or downloading a new app.

Focus on problem areas This aligns with setting specific goals. Where do you struggle the most with the language? At the language plateau, bad habits or mistakes become more ingrained, so it's time to correct them. Figure out where you are the weakest and find creative ways to practice those weaknesses. Reading books, finding conversation partners on HelloTalk, and writing a diary could address those weaknesses. If you aren't sure where you are struggling, review things you already know and see where you get stuck. Try a mock JLPT exam near your level and see how you score. Focus on those weak points and strengthen your knowledge. You'll also be moving ahead as you discover new words, grammar points, etc.

Learn more vocabulary Limited vocabulary is one thing that can prevent you from overcoming your language plateau. Try reading books, articles, websites, etc. or find vocabulary flashcard sets that challenge you. Building up your vocabulary will help you to communicate more clearly and concisely in your target language.

Interact with native speakers This may be difficult where you live, but you can always look online for people who want to exchange languages with you. Writing messages or talking via voice calls are both great ways to improve how you think and form sentences in your target language, and you can get feedback from native speakers to help you fix mistakes and improve. Mimicking native speakers is a great way to sound more natural, so you could also try shadowing podcasts or videos.

Don't give up! Most importantly, don't get discouraged. You've come a very long way, and the plateau is a sign that great things are ahead for you. Be confident and make time for language learning in your daily life. Your journey is what you make of it, and with confidence and practice, you can achieve your goals.

[xsilentthoughtsxlouddreamsx]

[vibinwiththefrogs]

For some reason a couple years ago I stopped formally studying languages, I think because I got too busy and burnt out, and I think it's why my Korean has just been stagnate for years. Going through this TOPIK vocab book I know about 1/3 of the words from TV or books, but there's a lot of words that I feel like it's almost embarrassing that I don't know despite studying Korean for 5 years. Vocabulary has always been one of the more difficult things for me to learn but the only way to get better is to keep working on it. I think in the future no matter what language I'm learning I need to get vocab books and lists to avoid hitting this kind of slump again.

[haru-dipthong]

Has your brain ever gone “oh yep, I understand that” after reading or hearing a sentence in your target language, only for you to realise several sentences later that you have no idea what the content is talking about?

I don’t know if this is common or just my experience, but when I was studying japanese during my intermediate plateau, I noticed it was very easy for me to trick myself into thinking I understood a sentence/paragraph/spoken phrase and moving onto the next one, when I did not in fact understand it.

I think a part of your brain wants to pretend learning a language is easier than it really is. But it’s not easy. Learning a language requires constant active listening, which is really hard! You can’t just switch your brain off and watch content like you can in your native language. You need to be listening or reading with purpose. Earlier in my language journey, while watching or reading something, I paused the video or stopped reading after every sentence and made sure I understood each sentence as it was spoken, but once I hit that midpoint I started overestimating myself and the pauses became less frequent.

Another part of it is that it was hard for me to admit to myself that I didn’t understand. I felt like I wasn’t improving as fast as I wanted, and for me to not be able to understand a sentence even when I recognised most of the words/grammar in it was a hard truth to face. But every time I did face it, and chucked the sentence into DeepL, or looked up the grammar, or checked the meaning of a word that seemed out of place, I learned something that leveled me up in a meaningful way. It’s these moments that yield the most impactful growth imo.

I guess this is advice for anyone who’s trying to self-immerse and has experienced what I’m describing: You gotta fight your lizard brain. Your lizard brain wants shit to be easy, but if you’re serious about reaching fluency, you can’t let it win. You need to recognise when you didn’t understand something and admit it to yourself, because that’s when you do your best learning.

[etirabys]

I've spent the past several days in the kind of art hole where it's been hard to focus on my day job, so here's a blog post about painting.

I had a four month painting hiatus that I decided to exit by making something really easy ("I'm going to make a simple shitty painting by slapping together some geometric shapes"), which produced the square painting on the right (explanation here). It turned out to be a combination of easy and hard – laying down the outlines was easy, since this is the kind of doodling I always do anyway. Putting down the colors was easy. Refining and swapping those colors was hard. In that last step, I realized that the variance in outcome was wider than expected – in particular, that the right combination of colors could probably make this something I truly loved. So that refinement step ended up being ~50% of the work by time, ~70% by mental energy.

This was surprising. This is a child's coloring exercise. On the other hand, I don't remember doing those coloring exercises while growing up, and they turn out to have a lot to teach me. They feel like exactly the right intermediate exercise for me to refine my sense of what colors and shapes look good together.

I've always been bad at colors-and-shapes – and since those are the basics of artistic composition, I considered myself kind of a fundamentally untalented painter. ("Okay, 'fundamentally untalented' is a fake and unhelpful label and I try not to think about it, but in my heart of hearts I know it's a meaningful concept and it's obvious that I'm fundamentally untalented...") It's been a surprise to fuck around in a genre that makes this static fact about myself buckle.

The painting on the left (still in progress) was harder than the first, because I decided most of it would be monochrome except for the top right circle, because the abstract concept I'm trying to convey demands it. (To me, that abstract concept is having a promising fiction synopsis or outline that I may not be able to breathe life into – "breathing life" being something that perseverance and intelligence alone seem to be incapable of promising – and gibbering and sweating and praying hoping it's just going to happen.) I don't want the colorful part to be garish or the monochrome part to be boring, but I don't want to dilute the dichotomy by colorizing the monochrome part too much or vice versa. After a few false starts it's exceeded my expectations, and I know it's going to get even better by my lights. I'm iterating much faster than usual, and I can feel the gravity of the local optimum pulling me in.

There have been multiple points in my life where I suddenly left some plateau of technical skill and bumped up to a new level. I think I'm in one of those phases again. When I close my eyes I see my painting the same way I see Tetris blocks when I'm in a Tetris phase. Cores that are unused for even ten seconds get reallocated to art. It feels amazing.

[chemicahs]

Anyone know if we got the intermediate plateau today

[german-enthusiast]

what is your target language? :)

Spanish and French!

I know a good deal of french but am quite at that intermediate plateau of i can understand fine enough with enough time but producing writing or speaking?? hahahahelp but in August I'll probably be spending a couple weeks immersing myself in the south of France!

Spanish I just started out and am struggling to find the time for. I have a venezuelan friend who's helping me but I'm at that weird struggle of "i know lots of and about romance languages and can understand a bunch but barely have any vocab or grammar to produce with" :')

[viveinquietude]

13.06.24

🕖 8am French class (talking about EU elections, politic scene in France, Poland and UK)

❄️ Made progress in Les fiancés de l'hiver

🪶 Read a French article about differentiating swallows and swifts (and implemented that knowledge while walking the dog later on)

🎓 Made progress in the Étudier en France course on coursera

🦉 quick studies with duolingo (fr & kr) and anki (de)

Total: 3 hours 21 minutes

I've started a challenge for myself to actively work on my weak areas in French during the summer, so I'd love to keep track here of all the things I did for extra motivation :) I'm done with this intermediate plateau.

[crunchycrystals]

good news: i made enough progress in my target language that im like probably b1 level. unfortunately this does mean i am stuck in the hell that is the intermediate plateau

[tensleepkite]

FILL IN WITH DETAILS ABOUT YOUR MUSE AS IF THEY WERE A CHARACTER IN A DATING SIM.

NAME: Holland Cassius May.

PROFESSION: Booking agent.

WHERE THEY CAN BE FOUND: The player can initially find Holland at the nightclub and bar when there's live entertainment, scouting for new talent, or running at the local gym. As his affection for the player grows, the likelihood of random encounters outside his programmed locations increases; he begins showing up wherever the player goes.

FAVORITE FOOD TYPE: Las Vegas-style buffets and steakhouses with exotic cuts of meat.

FAVORITE ALCOHOLIC DRINK(S): Espresso martini and sazerac.

WHERE THEY WOULD GO ON A DATE: During early dates the player and Holland will go sightseeing around the city, go for drinks, and dance. Intermediate dates, the player will be invited as a +1 to a red carpet premiere for one of his clients, and join him at his annual rager house party. Advanced dates, the player and Holland enjoy more privacy and intimacy – romantic home-cooked dinners, serenades, spending the night.

IDEAL GIFT: Eclectic jewelry, occult artifacts, personal mementos belonging to the player such as jackets, hair ties, scarves, etc.

HOW MANY DATES BEFORE THEY KISS: If the player utilizes a conventional technique to earn his favor (i.e. flattering dialogue options, gifts he likes, etc.), the first kiss can be achieved in three dates, but his level of affection towards the player plateaus as he grows bored. If the player takes a more hostile approach, it maxes out Holland’s affection quickly, and the option to have their first kiss appears from the fifth date onwards, to be selected at the player’s discretion. The only way to max out his affection and therefore complete his storyline is by taking the hostile approach, whether the player begins with it or switches to it later in the game. There is a 50/50 chance he will eat the player when they accept his kiss after maxing out his affection.

TAGGED BY: @alonggoodbye — ty bb! TAGGING: If you read all of this then you absolutely contractually have to tell me how to woo your chara, it's only fair!

[tokidokitokyo]

Learning Japanese with ChatGPT

I was reading up on how to overcome the intermediate plateau (dun, dun, dun) and I was reading about how to use ChatGPT to progress your learning. So I asked ChatGPT how to get better at Japanese.

You:

日本語を勉強してて、もっと上手になりたいけど、どうすればいい？今は日本語能力試験のN3ぐらいのレベルだと思います。

I am studying Japanese, and I want to get better, so what should I do? Now I am about level JLPT N3.

ChatGPT:

日本語能力試験（JLPT）のN3レベルに到達されているのは素晴らしいですね！日本語をさらに上達させるためには、いくつかの方法があります：

It's amazing that you have reached the N3 Level of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT)! [Flattery will get you nowhere, AI]. In order to further improve your Japanese, there are several methods:

毎日日本語を使う: 日常生活で日本語を積極的に使うことで、語彙や表現力が向上します。日本語のメディアやウェブサイトを読んだり、日本語でメモを取ったりする習慣をつけると効果的です。 Use Japanese every day: By actively using Japanese in your daily life, you will improve your vocabulary and ability to express yourself. It is effective to get into the habit of reading Japanese media and websites, and taking notes in Japanese.

会話を積極的に練習する: 日本語を話す機会を増やすことで、リスニングスキルや会話力を伸ばすことができます。日本語を話す友達やグループに参加する、または日本語を話す練習をするためのオンラインコミュニティに参加すると良いでしょう。 Actively practice conversation: By increasing your opportunities to speak Japanese, you can improve your listening and conversation skills. You might want to join a Japanese-speaking friend or group, or also join an online community to practice speaking Japanese.

日本語の本や映画を楽しむ: 日本語で書かれた本や映画を読んだり観たりすることで、楽しみながら語彙や表現力を増やすことができます。また、日本語のニュースやポッドキャストを聞くこともおすすめです。 Enjoy Japanese books and movies: By reading and watching books and movies written in Japanese, you can increase your vocabulary and ability to express yourself while having fun. I would also recommend listening to Japanese news and podcasts.

文法を復習する: 文法のルールや表現方法を定期的に復習し、理解を深めることが重要です。教科書やオンラインの文法リソースを活用して、自分の弱点や理解が不十分な部分を補強することができます。 Review grammar: It is important to regularly review grammar rules and expressions, to deepen your understanding. You can use textbooks and online grammar resources, to reinforce your weaknesses and areas of understanding.

日本語能力試験の勉強: もしN3をクリアしたいと思っているなら、試験対策の教材や問題集を使��て勉強することが大切です。定期的に模擬試験を受けることで、自分の進歩や弱点を把握し、効果的な勉強計画を立てることができます。 Study for the Japanese Language Proficiency Test: If you want to pass N3, it is important to study using test preparation materials and problem sets. By taking mock exams regularly, you can monitor your progress and weaknesses and create an effective study plan.

これらの方法を組み合わせて、日本語能力をさらに向上させることができます。毎日少しずつ努力を重ねて、目標を達成するために頑張ってください！

By combining these methods, you can further improve your Japanese skills. Every day make a little bit of effort, and please do your best to achieve your goals!

[languagelvlup]

Something unexpected that happened when I reached the "intermediate plateau" of Japanese is that my strengths in the language changed. I used to always think I was better at listening than speaking, but now I speak "fluently" despite not understanding 100% of ANY given piece of media.

I guess what happened is that I now have the vocabulary and grammar knowledge to say whatever I want to say. Of course, I speak simply with a lot of unnatural work-arounds when I'm missing the proper word...but generally, I can get my point across.

But when native speakers talk, they have a much wider range of vocabulary than me, so I end up getting lost.

[vibinwiththefrogs]

So you’ve been studying Japanese for awhile now, and I would guess with that a lot of resources have passed your door. What would you say have been your favorite resources to use? I have some things that I’m using, and they’re working well for me, but I’m always on the look out for other things to add to my studying regiment. 🥸

Hey, thanks for the ask!

So I made a majority of my progress in Japanese between 2013-2016 and I've mostly been maintaining since using TV shows and novels. Though back when I was studying there were a few resources I feel like really pushed me ahead.

One of the first books I used when I was around A1-A2 level that I remember enjoying is Japanese for Busy People by AJALT, though I haven't seen that book around in years. I found it at a public library.

Two that really helped get me through the intermediate plateau was Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese and Tuttle's Elementary Japanese volume two. Both structurally are very similar with lots of grammar and examples, though Tuttle has a lot of practice problems. The Genki series is very similar as well but I personally liked how Tuttle has more dense textbooks.

I also really enjoyed watching Chibi Maruko Chan and Nintama Rantarou when I was a low intermediate. Both are children's shows and there's episodes on YouTube (some with Japanese subtitles, some without).

Finally one that I don't particularly enjoy but helps a lot is writing journal entries and posting them to Lang-8 or Hinative. I haven't done it much recently (I really need to for Korean tbh), but I think working through writing sentences helps internalize grammar patterns more and makes speaking easier. I was planning to get back into that and start making random blog posts on Note which is a Japanese blogging app.

Hope this helps some! I unfortunately don't have any resources for kanji because I mostly learned kanji along with vocabulary rather than using a resource specifically aimed at kanji.

[synopiss]

my English is so shitty i need to talk to an italki teacher or sth to correct me and help me improve i hate the intermediate plateau or whatever shitty stage of learning ive been on for the past 2 years how can it be so bad that i feel nooo progress like😭😭😭😭 what the fuck

[deforest]

ok so got all my 1RMs for the next cycle of my training, going to back to work on basic power moves to bulk up my foundational strength—and hopefully break my plateaus for cleans, snatches, and jerks.

back squat: 185lb

front squat: 175lb

strict/overhead press: 80lb

pendlay row: 95lb

deadlift: 215lb

bench press: 100lb

most of these are just past or just about Intermediate level-ish for female lifters, so, as i’m always saying, it could be worse.

i’ll make note of these again at the end of the 9 weeks training cycle. go team

[hindisoup]

I've done some Googling and I've self-diagnosed having reached the feared, the infamous Language Learning Plateau.

Some signs I've noticed:

I get fewer spontaneous ideas for language learning. I still get them but less frequently and feel less inspired by them. Before, my mind was often bombarded with "Oh, let's do a vocab challenge! Let's read a book! Let's try to watch something without subtitles!" and now it's more like "Meh, I guess I can do that".

Language learning routines I used to enjoy a lot feel more like a task than enjoyable me-time. Stuff like organizing and tinkering with my Anki decks, vocabulary lists, grammar notes, etc.

I cannot see a clear goal in my learning. I mean, I say it's that I can enjoy media and arts in my target language quite fluently - but what does that mean?

And based on the stuff I read about this, it's pretty simple. Our learning slows down once we reach the intermediate level and become somewhat comfortable with the language in everyday contexts. Our brain is not getting that positive learning brain rush as frequently anymore, or the feeling is not as strong.

And I guess the risk is here that once we have enough vocabulary and grammar to work around the difficult parts (like explaining a word we don't know instead of, you know, looking it up and learning the actual word, or using just the three tenses we know and avoiding the more difficult ones) we fall in the danger of becoming stagnant.

The cures suggested that I found and am willing to try

1. Identify problem areas and define my goal

My biggest hurdles in Hindi, as of now, are remembering the genders of nouns and using word endings consistently (I can easily say or write मेरी नाम है even if I know very well that नाम is masculine just because I happen to be a female), and learning the more complex verbal structures, especially the nuances between past tenses. And even if I enjoy reading prose, I very much want to develop my skills in understanding the everyday spoken language of native speakers.

My goal is to be able to pick up a novel or short story and read a chapter comfortably - I can grasp its main characters and the way the story is developing even if I cannot understand every word. Or that I can listen to a news broadcast and understand the main points of the story - who, what, where, why - accurately.

2. Reframe my thinking

I've said that I'm happy to make slow progress. I am enjoying the journey. But now I need to own up to those words - up to this point, I've sometimes felt like sprinting. Once I learned certain prefixes and suffixes, I felt like I was gathering new vocabulary like a sponge. Slowing down is okay, it doesn't mean I've lost anything. It means I've come quite far already. There are probably more things I know (grammar wise that is, let's not bring the immensity of Hindi vocabulary in to this, please) than don't know by this point. There's still a brain rush to be experienced in learning more advanced stuff, I just need to find the right methods.

3. Try something new

I have a good routine, but I've been doing similar things for too long. I plan to find some new podcasts (recommendations welcome!), series and reading materials. So far I've used stuff that I've found available, but maybe at this point, I can try finding material on topics that interest me. Why watch a romcom if that's not my thing? I've got new pen pals now, which is a start.

Ok, I'm off to update my to-do list. I kind of feel inspired now!

Sources: x, x