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charles-simmons · 1 year ago

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My "small" essays on why Sootcest has actual interesting ships, except I'm only writing this to piss off a friend who hates selfcest. I'll send it to her later

Episode 1: Ghostbur x Revivebur

This is probably the most famous Sootcest ship, which makes sense. They have almost opposite personalities and even opposite colors schemes (blue vs red). These are common characteristics in ships, because people love seeing character that could never get along together being together.

But besides from that, what makes the ship specially interesting is the fact they're technically the same person. Now, some people might disagree with that. They have different memories, opinions, and act differently from each other. There are multiple theories on why the ghosts don't act like their alive version, which is something I can talk about on a different analysis. The point is, they're kind of the same person, but not quite the same person.

There's one thing that needs to be clear for this analysis and that is: Wilbur wasn't murdered, his death was assisted suicide. He begged for his father to kill him and it was his decision to die.

With that in mind, it's hard to believe someone who wanted his own life to end would fall in love with himself, or, in this case, a version of himself.

Ghostbur is a version of Wilbur who (supposedly) has no bad memories. Our experiences and everything we went through is what shapes who we are. Since Ghostbur doesn't have many of Wilbur's bad memories, It's like he didn't even live these things, therefore, didn't became the person Wilbur did. So, to a level, Ghostbur is the person Wilbur could've been if it wasn't for all the trauma he went through - trauma that led to him losing his mind.

Let's talk about Revivebur specifically now, the man who wanted to end his existence, but had to endure 13 years in limbo. Canonically, for him to be revived, Dream had to kill Ghostbur. In the few moments where Ghostbur was mentioned to him, he expressed dislike towards him or avoided the subject, which is understandable. For some it must feel violating to have someone who looks like you walking around and interacting with the people you knew. Someone as proud as Wilbur would probably hate the idea of being impersonated (not that that was what Ghostbur did, but it seemed to have felt like it). There's also the fact that people seemed to like Ghostbur better than him.

With all of that I think I can say that neither of them seem to have a positive opinion about each other. Revivebur has shown discomfort when it comes to Ghostbur, and Ghostbur is simply too different from Wilbur to even aprove or understand some of his actions.

Even if it was possible for them to coexist and for Wilbur to be revived without Ghostbur dying, there's a high chance they would simply avoid each other and actually live their lifes as different people. The idea of them actually actually falling in love is unlikely, which is what makes it interesting. They would have to face a lot of discomfort to even be around each other, let alone start liking each other. There's too much guilt and self hatred coming from both of them, which makes me wonder how toxic a relationship like that would be. Ghostbur would probably have a "I can fix him" mindset, while Wilbur would probably be dry and cold most of times, then "compensate" by giving him attention every now and then. Maybe with time they would actually do some good to each other, or maybe not and it would end up being a bad thing.

Regardless of all of this, Ghostbur and Revivebur are both very complex characters, so we don't know for sure what or how it would happen. The fact this ship is even a thing is funny, but it does have potential to be an actual chance to understand more about these two characters and how they perceive themselves and their own worth, which is why I genuinely think this ship is interesting. And with that, I conclude this essay.

Thank you if you read all of this by the way. My next one will probably be about Argbur and Incelbur. This is way too fun to write, so even if no one reads it I'll probably write it anyway.

#i wrote this a while ago and my view on Ghostbur has changed a little but I'm gonna keep it like this #i had decided not to post this but honestly why not?#sootcest #ghostbur #revivebur #bursonas #dream smp #dsmp #charles simmons speaks

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id-rather-be-home · 8 months ago

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do you think a lot of bylers try to force will into “the girl role” and mike into “the boy role”?

now obviously will is sensitive and gnc and more feminine in that regard, and mike is a leader and protective so he’s more “masculine” in that regard, but some bylers take that to mean will would always be submissive/passive in the bedroom too. what are your thoughts on this?

ooooof i feel like i may step on some toes with this one because top/bottom discourse gets on my nerves

(no hate at all to you anon though!!! just wanna make that clear first; this is a very good question!)

i think that a lot of bylers do tend to put will into "the girl role" and mike into "the boy role" subconsciously because it is fairly easy to do so! like you pointed out, will has some "feminine" characteristics while mike has quite a few "masculine" ones which makes it very easy to sort them into pre-existing gendered roles. it also probably doesn't help that mike is usually always the one to take care of and protect will and it hasn't really been seen the other way around (which i think is going to change in s5 but that's besides the point)

i think that we tend to sort homosexual couples into heterosexual roles even though i believe most of us who ship byler are queer ourselves; it's just such an easy thing to fall into because of how gender is treated in our society. if a boy is seen as "girly" then it's assumed he'd be on the bottom in the bedroom even though that isn't necessarily the case! it also doesn't help that will has, uhhh, certain Assets that make him more appealing to be on the bottom in a sexual relationship

however, i don't like when people treat sexual relationships as if they're so black and white; even when it comes to heterosexual ones where the sexual roles are pretty well defined.

do i think that will bottoms? yes.

do i think that mike bottoms? also yes.

their relationship is so... balanced and they treat one another as equals in such a way that i can't imagine they have sex only one type of way (whether that's bottom will or bottom mike). i think they would be very versatile and switch things up depending on how they're feeling that day or maybe who needs a little more reassurance and attention, things like that

that doesn't mean that neither of them have a preference for topping or bottoming. but we do not know enough about the characters in a sexual light to be able to determinedly say what their preference is - it's entirely up to an individual's perception based on what we know about them as is! i ended up in the camp that believes mike doesn't have a preference for either bottoming or topping (though he does play a bit more of a submissive role either way) because all he wants to do is make will feel good

will, on the other hand... honestly, it's something i'm still trying to decide. in my fic right now (which is where i'm exploring a lot of these concepts) he has a preference for topping BUT i can see that changing as the fic goes on and they get to experiment more with switching their roles up a little bit

however, whether or not will prefers to bottom i can't really imagine him taking a passive role in the bedroom?? even if he gets a little more submissive from time to time, he would never be passive about it

at the end of the day, nobody actually knows what these characters would prefer because we don't know their sexual preferences aside from what gender they like (confirmed in will's case, highly suspected in mike's obviously). so i think that people should be able to put them in whatever roles they want as long as they don't get mad at other people for not thinking the same as them which is... bizarre behavior if i'm to be honest

like, why would somebody get mad at me if i believe mike wheeler has a preference for bottoming instead of the other way around?

this has gotten pretty long so i'm gonna cut it off here but if you or anyone else has more questions about it, feel free to shoot them my way!

#byler #spicy byler #when we touch we are caressing stars fic #answered 💌

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nocturnal-phantoms-fandoms · 7 months ago

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No no wait, delete my previous ask 😄 You've already answered

BDK

Hi!! :D

Thank you for the ask!!!

B - A pairing–platonic, romantic or sexual–that you initially didn’t consider, but someone changed your mind.

well if we arent strict on the someone part (one person i could pinpoint) changing my mind - ill say wolfstar. i wasnt shipping them initially when i first entered the fandom (tho it wasnt the english speaking fandom on tumblr or ff.net) and now its my whole personality. i had no idea it exists, or that its even a possibility to ship 2 men together (I was 12 with no critical thinking skills. i knew gay ppl exist but i didnt know its something that can exist in fiction too i guess?) and all the fics there were included sirius x marlene or sirius x dorcas. and one day i completely randomly stumbled upon this ship. and now, after all this time, im here.

aside from that - probably most ships that im into now that arent wolfstar - wolfstarbucks, wolfbucks, prongsfoot, lilypad and jilypad. I cant pinpoint who exactly introduced me to which ship tho - I just know that people in the fandom that I follow talk about those ships and i was like, i see the vision. similar thing in the case of non-marauders ships like Cedric, Fleur/Bill/Tonks or Fleur/Tonks - but here its more like, i dont really care about anyone thats not S or R and thats why i didnt consider any of those ships initially (but I've always liked Tonks).

idk if that counts but somebody (i wont say who. but in this case i can tell who that was) said they canNOT see remus x lily (or they could but it would be disaster for everyone) and that made me realise I could get into that ship too. so ill put it on the list <3

D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t.

I mentioned a couple times I ship prongsfoot, but what I meant is I see why people ship them, and I ship them when in polyships I mentioned, and I do consider Sirius being in love with James (so, unrequired prongsfoot) in most concepts/storylines - but i wish I could get fully into the actual ship bc i feel like this part of the fandom writes them more in characters, and is generally a nice place to be. But I also saw some ppl talk about prongsfoot and james cheating on lily or sth and i know i wont get into that (cheating just squicks me out i guess?)

(this kinda goes for most of my ships that arent my OTP, I think? I like them, but im not into them enought to consider them my OTPs and sometimes I wish I did)

Also femslash ships. I wish I was more into them, and I dont want to excuse or justify why i dont like many femslash ships (there is so much discourse in many fandoms about it and i really dont want to do that). Im just not into them that much - i like them, but i dont read or write just about them, and I wish I did (maybe I will someday). In the case of the marauders fandom - Im not into dorlene or marylily bc those characters (sans Lily) are basically fandom's OCs (and I love that the fandom looked at those characters that were mentioned once in the books and made them quite interesting too. but I dont really care about them bc they are neither S or R and also there is no canon of them for me to fall back to)

K - What character has your favorite development arc/the best development arc?

Why are you making me think critically about my blorbos on saturday afternoon </3

I cant pick a fav but im also not going to write an essay on each one

When I did a presentation about my fav ships I mentioned that I loved Steve Roger's arc in his first movie bc he went from "I dont want to kill anyone. I want to fight nazis bc I dont like bullies - I dont care where they come from" to "I'm not going to stop till all of Hydra is dead or captured" after he lost Bucky </3 (but thats just the first movie. and i still pretend endgame didnt happen. so) (also ive read metas that steve's arc was tied to saving/loosing bucky, and i love that from the shipping perspective)

Everyone in the Stranger Things fandom loves Steve Harrington's arc - he went from a background asshole jock to a heroic babysitter working minimum wage whose best friend is a lesbian - and now that he's a fan's favourite he's also most likely to die in the last season

I also read some posts/metas about Remus's arc and his nonlinear healing and learning to take on responsibility and I dont like most elements that his arc consists off but I do find it very interesting.

ask game

#ask game #thanks again!!#i feel like there is something i left out but this post is already so long 😅

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sailforvalinor · 2 years ago

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You know, I’ve said for a really long time that I dislike enemies-to-lovers, but I’ve realized this isn’t actually the case—I just dislike badly executed enemies-to-lovers. And, because this is possibly the most popular romance trope in YA (and most other literature, if we’re being honest), we’re seeing a lot of bad enemies-to-lovers right now.

I think what really irritates me about it most of the time is that authors want the "enemies-to-lovers" dynamic but don't really want to put in the work involved to make it convincing. Characters have to have some reason to hate each other to this degree, have to have some foundation for their relationship to stand on, but sometimes authors just want to skip to the witty banter in the ballroom or the intense rapier duel on the roof with underlying romantic tension without justifying to me why all this drama is happening in the first place.

Also, a lot of authors, especially in the YA fantasy genre, seem to default to "we are on opposite sides of a political conflict" or "you said something rude to me the first day we met" as a format to copy-and-paste their protagonists into and then leave it at that. And to be clear, there isn't anything wrong with these formats--plenty of good stories exist with these used as their basic structure! But it becomes a problem when you plug in a trope like this and assume it will do all the heavy lifting for you. It can easily come across as boring or lazy writing, just like with any poorly-employed cliche or trope.

However, cliches and tropes are not bad! The reason that an idea becomes a cliche or a trope is because it is so generally well-liked that authors are motivated to use it over and over again. These ideas naturally become cliches when they are used so much that the audience gets worn out on them, or it is used as a shortcut by less experienced authors to hide poor writing. But this does not mean you have to avoid any and all cliches at all times. One of the best skills to build as a writer is recognizing when you are using a cliche, and how you can best work that cliche to your advantage—giving the cliche a fun twist, adding layers and details (and-then-isms), subverting the cliche entirely, or just committing to the bit and writing the cliche straight as best as you possibly can.

All of this to say, here are a few variants, subversions, and fun employments of the enemies-to-lovers trope that I just personally think work really well:

Both people strongly and vocally dislike each other, but there deliberately doesn’t seem to be any logical reason as to why, at least to the audience—and it doesn’t really matter (Benedick and Beatrice from Much Ado About Nothing. Also I realize that there is a line that suggests that they may have possibly been engaged at some point before the play, but I would argue that since we never find out why they fell out, and this is never brought up as a major plot point, it doesn’t really matter.)

Person A is a part of a group or regime that actively harmed Person B or someone close to them, but Person A was not actually directly involved—however, Person B still holds Person A responsible (Zutara, I still think Kataang is superior, but I won’t deny that this ship works. This one can be a bit cringy if played up too much or if it goes on for too long, but it works as a short-term stint)

Both people make snap judgements on the other’s character upon their first meeting—judgements that are incorrect—and go on to wrongly villainize each other’s character (Lizzie and Darcy from Pride and Prejudice, of course)

Person A did some grievous wrong to Person B in a past life, but one or neither of them remembers until they’re already in love (Reaper and Sunny from Goblin, I realize this is a little specific but my gosh does it slap and people should do it more often)

Similarly, Person A and Person B communicate via indirect means under aliases (i.e. letters, emails, chat rooms) and are falling in love, but hate each other in real life (You’ve Got Mail/She Loves Me)

Person A is sent to assassinate or otherwise harm Person B by the organization that they work for, but when Person B kills them with kindness it makes them spiral into a huge identity crisis (Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade from Star Wars Legends. I really need to do a complete breakdown of this ship sometime because it goes so much deeper than this, but there is way too much to talk about with them on this post—suffice it to say that they are very underrated and absolutely fantastic)

Classic enemies-to-lovers except it’s only one-sided—Person A hates Person B but Person B is absolutely clueless. I can’t think of a good example of this right now but I know I love it when I see it

Neither of them really actively dislikes each other, but they’ve gained such a reputation for their bickering that to admit that they might like each other would be too embarrassing and a blow to their public image (again, can’t think of an example but I know I’ve seen it done...I guess the latter half of Much Ado counts)

Classic enemies-to-lovers but instead of transitioning directly to lovers they become friends, leading into a enemies-to-friends-to-lovers pipeline—the best of both worlds! (Again, Luke and Mara. Also dare I say Raven and Beast Boy in Teen Titans kinda-sorta?)

#please add more if you have any other suggestions #I’ve always had problems with this trope #I’ve come to terms with it now but friends-to-lovers is still superior I’m sorry #I enjoy subtlety you know #writing #tropes #writing tropes #enemies to lovers #writing advice #ships #ship dynamics

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fratboykate · 3 years ago

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yelena is aroace, why is it so hard for you to admit it???

I’ve been staying away from this because it feels like such a pointless thing to argue about. Despite me having my own tagging system that keeps me out of the show, character, and ship tags a seemingly endless amount of you have been ceaselessly hounding me for days, trying to police what I say and do on my blog. I've finally reached my breaking point so…here we go I guess.

Let’s start with the basics since it appears that most of you fail to grasp even that. There’s two distinctly different concepts that fandom conflates and/or tries to use interchangeably because evidently only a handful of us took a literature class in school. Time for a lesson.

CANON: Canon are the elements of a fictional story that are officially a part of it. Canon is IRREFUTABLE information provided directly from the media to the audience. In movies and TV this would mean things like action or dialogue that happen ON SCREEN. In a book or comic it would be things EXPLICITLY said or shown on the page. Canon isn’t fan interpretation/speculation, fix-its, headcanons, what-ifs, something an actor said at a con in front of 200 people or that they “thought maybe that’s a thing their character would do” at an interview in a press junket. Canon is what is IN THE TEXT. End of story.

AUTHORIAL INTENT & DEATH OF THE AUTHOR:

-Authorial Intent: An author can have an “intention” with a piece but that ends the moment the story is out of their hands and the reader/viewer takes ownership of it. Why? Because none of us see the world the same way. Literally. The author simply cannot control how an individual will read their work, cannot dictate how we embrace what they supposedly wrote, and cannot force us to throw out our own takeaway of the text. It is entirely possible that my experience with the text or the characters is vastly different than what they “intended” that to be and there is nothing wrong with that. Once art is out in the world it is going to take a life of its own. That is how subjectivity works.

-Death Of The Author: TV Tropes defines Death Of The Author as follows: “It holds that an author's intentions and background (including their politics and religion) should hold no special weight in determining how to interpret their work. This is usually understood to mean that a writer's views about their own work are no more or less valid than the interpretation of the reader.”

Now that we’ve established both those things let’s break down Yelena’s case in particular.

Let’s start with the “Ace” part. It is more than obvious that you guys are taking AUTHORIAL INTENT and confusing it with CANON. One of the authors wrote an obscure blog post where they expressed some thoughts. Let’s highlight key quotes from the post:

“Most scholars agree that the first official use of “aromantic” was documented in 2005. That’s thirty-five years after I was born, six years after Yelena was invented, and—fictionally--approximately ten years after Yelena would have come into being (in the version of events where she was born rather than cloned).”

Oh well...right off the bat, Authorial Intent seems to be out the window. The term didn’t even exist when they created Yelena ergo it is impossible that they set out to write her as “ace”. Next.

“But now, let’s talk a bit about Yelena. When I first invented her, I didn’t give much thought to her romantic life or sexuality because neither factored into the story I was telling at the time. Later, when I had lived with her a little longer and someone asked me if she might be ACE, I thought that actually made a lot of sense for her.”

This is an "afterthought" situation. I’m not saying this to undermine the writer as a person, saying they have ill will, or calling them a liar. But this is - as clearly stated BY THEM - an afterthought. Yelena was not created as an "ace" character. Next.

These are going to be two quotes:

“I like the idea of her being ACE and hope they go with that, but despite my 20+ years writing comics, there isn’t even anyone there I can mention that to. That’s not how comics work. Even if I said she’s X or Y or X and Y, Marvel might be a day away from releasing something that takes her in a totally different direction. Ultimately, my ideas about how Yelena identifies are no more right or wrong than yours.

I have a lot to say about how unfairly creative IP is handled in this industry, but that’s not what we’re here to discuss. What I do want to impart is that it’s a bad idea to trust multibillion-dollar corporations to represent you and your community.”

and

“I am a fan-fic writer and RPer, though, and I firmly believe that when you write or play or draw a character, you get to decide what is and isn’t true about them. No one can tell you you’re wrong (except, perhaps, your GM) – that’s the entire point. So if your question is really, “do you think it’s okay if I write/play Yelena as X or Y or interested in Z,” I am always going to support your choices. 100%. Do what you think feels right and makes sense. FWIW, you have my blessing."

The writer is LITERALLY TELLING YOU, in black and white, to headcanon Yelena as whatever you want because...

Their own ideas of Yelena are basically headcanons at this point.

They understand the inherent importance of representation and they agree that it would be cool that she could be this one thing but that they do not make and cannot make any creative decisions about what the character is or isn’t.

They are making it clear to you - the fan - that they do not get to dictate canon because they do not own the character. Disney/Marvel does. They are telling you that “you as an individual decide what her truth is and how you want her to represent to YOU” and yet somehow you guys turned that open invitation into “I must hound everyone who disagrees with my personal interpretation of how I want her to represent ME”.

Now, relevant quotes excerpted…beyond this one blog post there is no other actual canon evidence in any of the comics of Yelena verbalizing anything about her sexuality. At all. Anywhere. If you have it, please make me eat crow. Correct me. But I’ve been doing vast research on it for a couple of days now and have even asked people to provide it and no one can which is pretty strong evidence that there isn’t. All that anyone can come up with is the author's blog post and another interview where they have yet another throwaway sentence of Authorial Intent. This is it:

"PROBABLY MORE LIKELY". That is an opinion, my friends. This is all you have. Intent and Opinions does not canon make.

Now, onto my absolute fucking favorite part of this whole thing...

You want to know what IS canon? You want to know what you all conveniently and willingly choose to gloss over and never mention because it doesn't serve your narrative?

1) The fact that CANONICALLY Yelena is a lingerie model and a sex worker who owns a soft-core porn empire. [x]

2) The fact that in this scene she has an entire conversation with Natasha about how she chooses to use her body to sexually manipulate targets to get what she wants:

Interesting how I had to start doing research into Yelena to learn that because in this entire conversation about “representation” sex workers and sex positive, feminist women had never once come up. Funny how apparently sex workers don’t deserve a superhero then? Hmmmm...

I’m not saying one is more worthy than the other, just a point I figured was worth flagging because it just seems oh so very curious to me.

Let’s move onto the “Aro” part because this is the real doozy. This is the one y’all truly bent yourselves into a pretzel to come up with. At least there is some sort of something you can cling to on the "ace" front but on this one you really just went for the mountain of straws and started to grasp.

The "proof" you guys use of her being "aro" is a single panel of her saying "I'm not...anything". Here's the entire scene instead of just the one frame you guys use out of context:

I'm going to use two different sources here to debunk this one.

- This person had already read the whole series the panel you guys chose to extract that ONE frame from and completely misconstrue to support your point. Here are a couple of excerpts of the ask they answered:

“…It’s more people seeing that one panel and misunderstanding it.[…] The panel where she says "I’m not anything" is a reoccurring theme throughout this series specifically about her not seeing herself as the Black Widow and her dehumanization of herself. The full page itself is about the woman she was talking to goading Yelena by asking if she was into BDSM.”

I then had a DM conversation with the person to find out more because I wanted to get further context about the series as a whole since they had the full picture. I specifically asked them questions about this part. They said the following:

“The way she [the woman] degrades her [Yelena] and calls her worthless is supposed to be feeding into Yelena thinking she isn’t as good as Natasha and how she’s not truly the Black Widow. The "I Am Nothing" is the writers very badly trying to ham fist their way into having Yelena saying she is nothing as she is not the Black Widow, which is the main point of the comic."

Without having read the rest of the comic, if I were to see these panels in isolation, I would have a slightly different interpretation of the scene, because...again...no one digests texts the same way. This is a prime example of that. What I would gather from it is that Yelena would be saying “I am nothing” as in “I don’t label myself as anything” rather than literally just jumping straight to “I am aromantic”. Like…that is such a giant stretch that it’s almost laughable.

The second person I'm quoting is an AROACE person who made a whole thread on twitter agreeing that Yelena is NOT canon aroace and sharing pretty solid (and similar) factual evidence as to why.

[Full disclosure: I was sent this link as I was in the process of finishing this post by someone who knew I was writing it and I figured it was worth adding an Aro/Ace voice to the mix as well].

Here are some good excerpts:

"...in said interview grayson talks about yelena being asexual then proceeds to describe yelena as aromatic instead, making it clear that she doesn't know the difference between the two orientations..."

The writer then proceeds to break down and analyze the same misconstrued panels I was quoting above. She runs through several possible scenarios of what that scene could mean, all just as likely as the other. All valid interpretations. All different versions of Yelena as an LGBT character. This is the most important part to me tho:

"...once again think about the time and place yelena grew up in. you're going to try and tell me yelena knows what asexual is and what it means? muchless aromantic? she grew up in approximately 70s russia... expecting her to know her sexuality at that point is kinda weird?

now with all this in mind (especially the last three!) it pretty much completely erases any chance that those panels are meant to be her saying shes aroace. as far as im aware these are the only two pieces of evidence people try to use to confirm yelena as canonically aroace. both are very easily debunked.

i am by no means here to tell anyone not to write yelena as aroace, she's your character do what you want! i'm only here to educate people on this topic. and as someone who is BOTH aro and ace its absolutely my place to speak on this. [...] all i want is for this non-existent canon to stop being continuously shoved down everyone's throats."

And finally:

"i'd also just like to add the way a lot of people tend to handle this topic of conversation is very weird. if your first instinct when you see an aroace character is to say they cant be shipped or cant have sex... that's weird! aroace is a spectrum! not all aroaces are repulsed by sex and relationships! yes, some aroaces are! but not all of them. to immediately force her into that box with no evidence is extremely stereotypical! a very good majority of conversation based around aroace yelena is riddled with stereotypes."

I'm going to revisit the opening lesson for a beat because it has to do with my final point. Let me quote myself in case we already forgot:

"Canon is IRREFUTABLE information provided directly from the media to the audience. In movies and TV this would mean things like action or dialogue that happen ON SCREEN."

Why am I circling back? Because with this new wave of IP and adaptations that we're living in. So many pieces of IP are getting adapted from podcasts, comics, books, etc into TV/Film. Changes are always going to be made from the original to the screen. Always. ALWAYS. What is canon in one is not necessarily going to be canon in the other. They're two completely separate pieces of media. Every single time. They immediately become divorced and stand-alone from each other as soon as a derivative is created.

It's why you see things like couples being "endgame" in books but not in shows/movies. Or people being alive or dead in books but not in TV/films. Or major story points being changed. Or new characters being introduced or omitted from adaptations at all. They are not the same thing. Canon on text is one thing. CANON ON SCREEN IS ANOTHER. Shut up already about "what's canon here must be canon here" and learn the difference.

Do you want to know how much characters/relationships have changed from Marvel comics to the MCU? Let me list a few things that are canon in the comics just for quick references.

Black Widow had romances with Bucky, Hawkeye, and Daredevil.

Hela is Loki’s daughter not his sister.

Pepper was never married to Tony.

Black Window and the Hulk have never been on the Avengers together.

Natasha and Yelena are rivals not sisters.

I could keep going but I think you get the point. Marvel Comics are not the MCU. I'll repeat:

MARVEL COMICS ARE NOT THE MCU.

Simply because something happens or is true is one does not mean it must be true in the other. It is especially important to drive that point home in this case because "Yelena is aroace" isn't even a canon fact in the comics. It's farfetched at best. At best.

My goal with this is not to tell you to not headcanon Yelena as aroace. If that is important to you, dear god fucking do it to your heart's content. No one is trying to fucking take that from you. Matter of fact, if you want to string two whispers of a stretch together and pretend in your delusional little head that it’s “canon” be my guest. Where the issue begins is that you are now trying to militaristically enforce this “canon” myth when it is nothing more than that…A MYTH. And you are trying to force it on people who weren't fighting you on it to begin with. People like me who were just over here in my own corner of the internet minding my own business. I wasn’t invading your spaces, arguing with any of you, or trying to debunk any of your beliefs until you all insisted on coming to me with this bullshit over and over and over again.

All I - a casual viewer who had zero knowledge of the comics or the backstory - wanted to do was calmly enjoy and interpret these two characters and their relationship however the show had established them which was...AS A BLANK SLATE. Right now in the MCU they are non-denominational. They have never said Kate is [XYZ] and Yelena is [ABC] therefore I am free to construe them and pair them however I see fit. It is not up to you to tell me otherwise.

Now, with all that settled, leave me the fuck alone.

#i dont want to hear it again i dont #im even going to put something in the yelena tag for the first time so you see it read it and know to leave me alone #for the rest of fucking time #yelena belova #kate x yelena #hawkeye #ybelova #answers #anonymous #i said i wasnt going to have time today but....i made it #hawkeye meta

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shinidamachu · 2 years ago

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Sid, I know you’re mostly an InuKag blog and this probably isn’t your area of expertise, but as a POC the discourse surrounding Kikyo - and by extension InuKik as a ship - really bothers me.

Seems like all anyone can focus on about Kikyo as a character is stupid Iove triangle shipping discourse, if she is hated or called out it’s generally only for that reason and that reason alone. Otherwise if people aren’t hating her because “she gets in the way of InuKag,” she’s treated as this cool girlboss who’s a tragic figure and simply misunderstood, now this is not to erase the complexities and nuance that is inherent to her character, but it kinda bothers me that she’s not called out more for her actual crime in actually being really low-key racist? Like personally she’s one of the most problematic characters in the franchise to me.

The way she treats Inuyasha throughout the anime and manga she acts like she’s doing him a favor and gives off strong “I can’t be racist, I have a black friend/bf!” vibes. She treats him as one of the “good demons” constantly comparing him to the full-blooded ones saying how he’s not like *that* because he has human blood. She straight out just asks him if he ever just thought of stopping being biracial essentially, telling him to throw half of his identity and race away and get rid of his problematic “ethnic features.” She is literally Microaggressions: The Character.

And I know IY is fiction and demons aren’t an actual race that exists in real life, but I’m of the belief that fiction does not exist in a vacuum, it influences and informs reality just like reality informs it. The whole “demons vs humans” conflict that is at the center of the narrative and a hanyou’s place in it feels like it’s meant to be a direct allegory/metaphor for racism between different ethnic groups out in the real world and how mixed people are often caught in the middle. Inuyasha to me reads as a very POC-coded character with very distinct physical features alien to the dominant human society that he is judged for constantly. And maybe I’m just being overly sensitive but it feels really wrong that shipping drama is people’s biggest issue with Kikyo when they’re kinda ignoring this big 5ft pink elephant in the room? I mean tons of other fandoms are always ready to decry and call out the racism inherent to their franchises so why doesn’t the IY fandom? (Though the callouts of Sunrise over whitewashing Shiori in Yashahime was a good start)

InuKik’s whole relationship in general is just really uncomfortable and has these weird racial power undertones to it, I mean Kikyo is a respected village authority who is a Miko in charge of protecting the village in demons, so literally in the position of a “cop,” while Inuyasha himself is a poor, disenfranchised minority youth who’s discriminated against day in and day out and Kikyo basically takes it as her task to play white savior and try to “rehabilitate/civilize” him society, all while she clearly has the upper hand and holds all the privilege between the two and yet she wants to play little miss “woe is me” and pretends or even dismisses the fact that she has any privilege at all? That her and Inuyasha “are in the exact same position???”

And sure we could talk about misogynist double standards and how it’s unfair I’m suddenly interested in “cancelling” her character when Sesshomaru himself is also a big ass racist, but see the difference is is that at least Sesshomaru is an upfront, out-and out open racist. Neither he nor the narrative ever attempt to paint him in the right and openly criticize and give him comeuppance for his racist attitude in life which he has to actively learn from. Kikyo on the other hand is imo the much more dangerous type of racist, she’s the insidious “covert” racist, who might not even realize they’re being racist but has internalized a lot of toxic societal messaging regarding certain skin colors (Or I guess in IY’s case, supernatural powers and animal-like physical features) and so overtly looks down on POC and does a lot more institutional harm to them than a KKK-style racist like Sesshomaru could ever do. She’s not a self-aware racist, which imo is the much more dangerous type.

Anyways sorry for going off on this long rant to you like this, it’s just always bugged me that the fandom seems to overlook this major flaw and problematic connotations surrounding Kikyo’s character when this is an an extremely important issue that deserves to be talked about more and has much more serious implications than any petty shipping debates.

I'm gonna preface this by saying I'm not white either. However, this doesn't necessarily make me an expert on the subject by any means. It's definitely not my intention to speak for every people of color in the fandom. I'm simply sharing a personal opinion.

Of course Inuyasha is fiction and demons aren't an actual race, but as you so pertinently put it: fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. It influences and informs reality and, in return, reality equally influences and informes fiction.

Inuyasha's predicament is a very clear representation of racism. Just because it doesn't get called out by name, it doesn't mean it's not there. The prejudice, the discrimination and the ostracizing he went through certainly are.

The unfair way in which he has been treated might have nothing to do with his skin tone, but it's deeply associated with his status as a half demon, something he can't nor should naturally change. For an allegory, it can't get more explicit than this.

In that sense, it matters little which real life minority we think Inuyasha was coded after. What's really important is recognizing that his half demon heritage carries an undeserved stigma. It shaped who he is and how he's perceived by others. As a result, everything concerning his demonic blood will inevitably rise very real racial issues. That's why Kikyo comes off in a bad light.

She initially spared Inuyasha's life because she didn't see him as a half demon, but as a half human. And then she got into her head that, due to their shared loneliness, they were not so different — completely neglecting the fact that said loneliness came from totally different places.

Like I've said before: Inuyasha didn’t choose loneliness. Everyone else chose to isolate him. Kikyo, on the other hand, isolated herself. Both Kaede – as the village priestess – and Kagome – as the new guardian of the Jewel – proved that it's more than possible to fulfil their duties while still mantaining deep, meaningful connections to other people. Kagome in particular relied on those connections for her power to grow.

And so Kikyo had the option to simply drop everything if she so desired: pass the Jewel on, stop using her powers and start fresh somewhere. She had the option to ask for help, to let people in.

At the same time, all the reasons why she doesn't are completely understandable. It makes perfect sense for her character, fleshs out her personality and it makes her interesting from a storytelling perspective. What she didn't have was the right to compare her situation to Inuyasha's, who didn't have the luxury of choosing.

Of course, having a little sister who loved her to death and an entire village worshipping the ground she walked on aren't impediments to feeling lonely or depressed, but it's still way more than what Inuyasha ever had at the time.

Kikyo's sorrow doesn't take away from the fact that she was privileged and therefore, could never speack to Inuyasha from a place of parity. Presenting herself as his equal is a false equivalence and the way the scene was framed made it look like Kikyo was asking Inuyasha for sympathy when the goal was — or at least should have been — showing him compassion and understanding.

In that sense, suggesting to use the Jewel to turn him into human is just awful. Not only would it be a selfish wish, but also there's no way for us to know exactly how it would backfire, only that it would. Inuyasha was being used to test a theory that would have failed. Spectacularly.

Sure you can. You're half human, after all. But if it was used to turn you into a human... the Jewel would be purified and would probably cease to exist.

The repetition of the word "human" emphasizes said circumstance. Also, notice how it gets confidently associated with "purity", while such certaninty is not applied to what could happen to the Jewel, which would only "probably" cease to exist.

Not to mention Inuyasha canonically hates being human. It's bad if Kikyo doesn't know that fact, because it shows just how little they actually knew about each other for two people who are supposed to be in love, but for obvious reasons, it's even worse if she does know.

One might argue that her intentions here were good. Adopting the "we're not so different" approach was her way of reaching up to Inuyasha and turning him into human was mutually beneficial in theory. Regardless of what her reasoning was, though, the point is that she never should have done it in the first place. It was highly insensitive at best.

And even if you believe that Kikyo didn't have an actual issue with Inuyasha's demonic features — which is as valid an interpretation as any — there's no denying she wasn't too fond of them either, otherwise she wouldn't have jumped at the chance to get rid of them. She liked Inuyasha despite of who he was, not because of it.

The situation gets even worse when you realize that this arrangement isn't mutually beneficial at all. Hypothetically, Kikyo would be free of her duty, becoming an ordinary woman with a human Inuyasha by her side, which was already everything she wanted. But what about him?

Inuyasha is the one making all the compromising. He was the one putting his life — the one his demon father died to save — on the line. He was the one sacrificing his powers, his physical appearance and his father's legacy (because he wouldn't be able to wield Tessaiga as a human, even if he didn't know about its existence yet). Inuyasha being a half demon was the living proof of his parents tragic love story and he was turning his back on that not because he thought was what he wanted — like becoming a full demon, for instance — but because someone else suggested it to him.

What was Inuyasha getting out of it? "Acceptance" from villagers he didn't really care about and who would only be friendly to him because he wouldn't look like himself anymore, while still being racist to other demons? An "official" relationship with Kikyo, even though there isn't really a good reason as to why he couldn't have that without forsaking a part of who he was, since relationships between demons and humans, though rare, already existed and he eventually got that with Kagome?

Unless, of course, Kikyo's offer to live together was conditional. Which raises the question: what was Kikyo giving up, apart from things she wanted gone anyway? And what would have happened if Inuyasha refused to go with her plan?

Because it was one thing to kiss him in secret — like the anime-only scene in the docks — or after she was technically dead and had nothing to lose, but it's a totally different thing to own up to that relationship without the prospect of using the Jewel to change him. Unfortunatelly, her character isn't written well enough for us to draw our own conclusions based solely on canon material.

The point I'm trying to make is that despite the narrative portraying Kikyo's suggestion as a selfless act on her part, she would be the only one actually benefiting from this deal long run. In the end of the day, it was more about her needs than his, because the kind of acceptance she was offering Inuyasha wasn't the one he needed, which Kikyo should've known.

Inuyasha going for it isn't the proof of love Takahashi — and part of the fandom — tend to paint it as. It's a proof of desperation: desperation that Kikyo would walk away if he told her no. Desperation to belong somewhere. Anywhere. Remember: Inuyasha had his mind set on becoming a full demon literally a few days prior.

That's why this ship was build to wreck, with or without Naraku. There were no trust, no intimacy, no honesty. They barely knew each other. Inuyasha put Kikyo on a pedestal and was constantly trying to act like someone he wasn't to please her (restrained, apathetic and unsure). Their whole relationship was based on loneliness and idealization.

All of this is to say that the way Kikyo treated Inuyasha's heritage is a defining trait of her character and, by extension, of Inukik as a pairing. And although it is possible — even preferable — to call out her behavior outside the shipping discourse, it's also perfectly understandable that both things will blend together because Kagome and Inukag are direct paralells to Kikyo's actions in this regard.

Trust and acceptance are recurring themes in Inukag's relationship and the lack thereof, in my carefully curated fandom experience, is the biggest source of Kikyo and Inukik criticism and it circles right back to those racial issues. Sadly, the closer we ever got from the narrative challenging Kikyo's perspectie on the matter was having Inuyasha end up with Kagome, who had an opposite worldview.

Obviously, there are still people who will make this solely about the love triangle and there will always be, but as far as I can tell, they're mostly casual anime watchers nowadays, not at all comparable to how it used to be back when the ship war was still raging on.

I dislike Inukik and Kikyo is one of my least favorite characters not because I'm an Inukag shipper or a Kagome stan, but because as an Inuyasha stan and someone who appreciates themes and character growth, I can't get behind it even if Kagome never became a part of the equation.

And I believe a considerable amount of people who share this feeling think the same, we just don't express it more often because... Well... You said it yourself: I'm mostly an Inukag blog. And I'd much rather focus on the things I love instead of the ones I dislike.

You see, the Inuyasha fandom is old and the Inuyasha material is older. Inevitably, some part of its content did not age well and inevitably, someone has already pointed that out. It's understandable, though, that some people would chose not to engage the discussion in exchange of peace of mind. Especially with the "let people enjoy things" trend going on.

I think your frustration is completely valid and strongly encourage that you keep the discussion going on your blog if voicing your opinions and experiences will make you feel better. Particularly, I'll be avoiding the topic unless prompted by asks such as this one, in which case I'm fine talking about it.

Fandom is my escape from reality and using my recreative time explaining to the white people in it why certain dynamics portrayed in the show can be considered problematic in a racial level feels exhausting and it's not really my — or any other people of color's —obligation to do so if we don't feel up to it. Especially when there's a huge chance of backlash and of people reducing valid points to ship wars.

It's funny you shall mention the Shiori incident because, unlike Inuyasha, the sequel doesn't have the "test of time" to blame for its poor "creative" choices, since it's from 2020. I distinctly remember calling out the blatant white washing her character suffered, along with the sane part of the fandom and either got ignored because people thought we were overreacting or straight up got told that we were only speaking up because we didn't like a specific ship the show portrayed and that what Sunrise did was fine because Shiori's dark skin is, and I quote: actually orange. So yeah.

That being said, I have reservations about comparing Kikyo to a cop because, personally, I've always thought the priestess occupation — at least as it was originally portrayed in the series — had more to do with medical and spiritual care than with mantaining law and order. Plus, cops tend to do everything in their power to keep their authority and privilege intact, while Kikyo was willing to give that up to become an ordinary woman, but I do see where you're coming from.

As for the double standards, Kikyo isn't the first female character to fall victim to rooted misogyny and unfortunately won't be the last. Kagome herself gets hate for sexist reasons, often from the very people who reprove it when the same thing happens to Kikyo. However, I feel like claiming misogyny is the only reason Kikyo gets hate is not a completely honest statement.

I'd say this argument would hold a lot more water if Kikyo hadn't constantly belittle and actively tried to kill the female protagonist — who had been nothing but kind and understanding towards her — over jealousy, or if her post death existence wasn't literally based on feeding off of miserable women's souls.

The double standards regarding Sesshomaru are real, but it had little to do with gender and everything to do with context. Kikyo was a fallen priestess. One the narrative asks me to believe is in love — or at least loved — a half demon. Sesshomaru is a racist demon who despised his half demon brother and humans alike.

So when Sesshomaru takes a little human girl under his wings and acts somewhat respectfully towards Inuyasha, that's a huge deal to me. But when Kikyo, who is already dead, gives up her "life" to save the child she was planning to sacrifice for the greater good and treats Inuyasha with dignity, my reaction will naturally be "alright, what else is new?" Swap or even their genders and my feelings will remain the same.

It's not a crime having higher expectations for her than for an actual antagonist when the narrative insists on sweeping the bad things she has done under the rug and focusing on how she is still as good as she has always been because, in that case, doing good deeds is not some extraordinary feature, but rather the bare minimum.

Sesshomaru's bad actions were openly and correctly portrayed as bad. He was forced to face his limitations, his weakness and his loses. That made him grow as a character. And if I criticize Sesshomaru, people will most likely ignore me or agree instead of try and justify his actions with his daddy issues. Kikyo being armored by the plot didn't do her any favors in this regard.

Besides, if we're talking double standards, I frankly don't think some people would be as willing to look past Kikyo's mistakes — Sesshomaru's too, for that matter — and ship her with Inuyasha if she wasn't so pretty. And honestly? That's fine. No one needs an actual reason to love or hate a character.

Lastly, it's not like I don't get Kikyo's tragic backstory, it's just that a huge part of why it's tragic in the first place is because of the choices she made. Naraku was detrimental to her fate, yes. But Kikyo's appeal is that she wasn't a passive person to whom things just happened to. She had agency to make decisions for herself.

People like Inuyasha, Sango and Kohaku had way worse than her and definitely not by their choice, but they never used their traumas as an excuse to be cruel. And I'm not saying this is a competition. Kikyo's pain it's just as valid. I'm just saying that, given these circumstances, in a fictional level, it's way harder to relate and empathize with her character.

And it's not like I didn't want to stan Kikyo. On the contrary. She's beautiful, cunning and interesting. I have a long list of powerful, unapologetic, morally grey female characters that I love and most of them were a bigger treat to my ships than Kikyo ever was to Inukag. The difference is that they were well written.

Kikyo's entire concept is fantastic, but the execution was abysmal. It's very clear to me that Takahashi didn't know what to do with her and it's a shame to see so much potential get wasted. I don't mind her characterization at all. She should be flawed and controversial. It's the lack of character development and satisfying redemption arc that I take issue with, if the narrative is gonna sell her as a changed woman worthy of our sympathy.

Anyway... if you want her complexities and nuances done justice, I've heart the Sesskik fandom is the place to be. They actually acknowledge her flaws, hold her accountable for the things she's done and explore very interesting sides of her personality.

I didn't mourn Kikyo's death for a second. But I mourn the character she could have been every single day.

#Holy fuck I feel like I owe you a new keyboard #Thank you for passing by #And thank you for your patience as well #This has been sitting in my inbox for a while #But I felt like your question deserved a more complex answer #Also don't feel sorry for ranting to me #I actually enjoy when people go off over a topic they have strong feelings about #Especially when they put it as respectfully and politely as you did #Sidmailing #Also please you guys don't use this post to start anything alright?#I won't answer #This is just my opinion not an invite to debate

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myheartticks · 2 years ago

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I’ve been thinking about about how Evie sort of exhibits the darker side of the team mom personality trope.

I agree. Evie is treated like garbage by Mal and is still expected to drop everything and be there for the person who traumatized, bullied, assaulted, and attempted to physically torture and curse her. Evie and her story show how easy it is for characters (especially women of color) who are shoved into the “mom friend” category to have unrealistic expectations forced upon them (both in canon and by the fandom), and thus be exploited by an (often racist) narrative to cater to their psuedo “child” (usually the white protagonist).

Everyone thinks she’s a Mrs Weasley. But sometimes she can come off more like a well intentioned mother gothel.

I KNOW you did not just compare Evie to Mother freaking Gothel- a woman who kidnapped and imprisoned an infant and went on to emotionally manipulate that child to completely control her in order to further her selfish goal of staying young and beautiful forever. On what plane of existence are you living on my guy??? (And, no, adding “can come off more like” and “well-intentioned” does not negate that you just compared an emotionally abused, traumatized teenager who did not choose or ask to be Mal’s emotional support punching bag, to an emotionally manipulative, neglectful, narcissistic full-grown woman who both chose to raise a child and used that child for her own selfish gain. To clarify, Evie is not any of these things, nor has she ever done anything on par with the crimes Mother Gothel has committed.)

And Mal suffers from it most often.

How??? Where??? When does Mal suffer by Evie’s hand in the series at a point where the real issue was not caused by external factors, or by Mal herself? Evie does the best that she can. She is not a therapist, nor is she actually Mal’s mother, and she cannot possibly solve every single one of Mal’s problems. However, that does not stop her from trying. The fact that Evie does so much and gets no credit from Mal stans simply because she cannot stop Mal from having negative emotions really frustrates me. Even from a story-telling standpoint, the only possible way for Evie to save Mal from any pain whatsoever was if she was more powerful than Mal and/or she was the main protagonist instead of her. And I’m pretty sure that neither you nor other Mal fans would like that too much.

But a lot of the fandom have their bloody shipping goggles on so they think Evie being Mal’s beloved smother is romantic chemistry instead of fully unhealthy.

YES ^^^^^ THIS!!!!!! I fully agree with everything you just said here. Hit the nail right on the head, my friend.

At least once in each movie she doesn’t really think of what Mal herself wants before she acts.

Oh. My. Goodness. You. Are so right. Evie doesn’t put Mal's needs over everything in her own life, or considers the needs/safety of a group over the emotional needs of an individual (Mal) at least once in every movie. I don't know how I didn't see it before, she's a horrible friend. -_- /sar dude seriously what are you on? (can i get some???)

Film one. Tried to put make up on her when she’s plotting

Okay, I usually hate it when people say this, but in this case: I don’t think it’s that deep. (with all due respect, sounds like you pulled this one straight out of your ass). The VKs are all obviously on edge, and I think Evie is just trying to calm herself down by doing something that’s familiar to her as well as comfort Mal in a way that isn’t explicitly touchy-feely, seeing as that isn’t really allowed on the Isle. We see that Mal was simply glowering off into space before Evie does this, something that is very characteristic that Mal would do all the time. Maybe Evie could have been a bit more considerate of Mal’s personal space, but it’s not like she knew that Mal was “plotting”. I think she was genuinely trying to help/make the situation better, and that this really doesn’t count as a “failure in friendship” on her part.

Film two. The entirety of their talk after she pulled her away from Ben after the paps got thrown out

Again, I truly don’t think that Evie had selfish intentions. We know that Mal tried to spell Ben with no reservations, hesitations, etc later in the movie, so I assume that she has done so consistently before. Therefore, I believe that Evie pulling Mal away from Ben was genuine concern for him on her part, as she could see that Mal was stressed and might have been about to cast a spell, likely on Ben. As for what you will agree with me about, Evie knows that Mal is stressed, and she’s stressed too. Evie probably hopes that knocking at least one thing off the list as soon as possible will help both of them.

As for their “talk”: While Mal seems a bit more vulnerable in this scene rather than the one with Carlos, mainly she's just whining to Evie about how she doesn't like being a "princess" (something that she inflicted upon herself, by the way). What Evie basically says is, "You should take responsibility, stop using magic, and appreciate what you have. All you have to do is read, it's not that hard." From Evie's reaction to Mal using the spell book, it’s easy to tell that Mal has used magic before, probably a lot. Many people try to argue that Evie was controlling and dismissive of Mal's problems in this scene, but it's pretty clear that she and Mal have been through this before. They only show us the one time that Evie is tired of listening to Mal's bullshit and trying to be empathetic. With all that said, none of it negates the fact that Evie was still coddling Mal. Their whole conversation was still framed to make Mal the victim and undeserving of the consequences of her actions. Everything Evie says in the scene is phrased so that Mal doesn’t have to take any blame for her actions. Evie says the line, “Haven't you and Ben had enough secrets between you?”, implying that both Mal and Ben have been mutually keeping secrets, when the truth is the only one who ever has been deceitful in their relationship is Mal. (Not to mention that she is continuing to deceive him.) After Evie doesn’t immediately give Mal validation of her victim mindset and assure her that she's completely in the right, she uses Evie’s trauma from the Isle against her. She "asks" Evie about being evil again after Evie confronts her about using magic. Evie experienced so much trauma at the hands of “being evil,” a lot of it inflicted by Mal herself. Using this against Evie to avoid blame is beyond cruel, and I don't care how overwhelmed or upset she was, it wasn’t okay.

Film three. Accidental guilt trip after she got manipulated by the in laws.

Oh no no no no no don’t you EVEN GO THERE. FIRST of all, FIRST of all, Mal was not manipulated by anyone. She made the decision to close the barrier completely on her own and in fact had to corner Ben into agreeing with her. She did that all by choice and with no prompting or even external suggestion from anyone else. SECONDLY, what Evie did was not a “guilt trip”. Evie was genuinely worried for the safety and well-being of CHILDREN on the Isle that Mal was threatening (not that Evie knew that part, since Mal went on to LIE ABOUT IT TO HER FACE).

I love Evie. She’s my seventh favorite after Mal and before their cousin.

Not to be rude, but it doesn’t actually sound like you like her all that much.

But the fact remains. She isn’t as in tune with other people’s feelings as many would like to believe. It’s not a bad thing. It’s a very realistic flaw given who her mother is.

I agree. However, I think that she is held to unrealistic expectations, despite many aspects of her character that would make it even more impossible for her to meet those expectations. So, yes, this is a realistic “flaw” for Evie to have, but I think that even in this context, that “flaw” is being blown out of proportion simply because it does some minor disservice to Mal.

However, treating her like the ultimate example of a care bear isn’t really doing her justice.

^^^ Yes, absolutely.

Because like I keep pointing out. If you don’t acknowledge the flaws of the characters you like then you’re not liking every aspect of them.

You make some good points about how harmful it is to reduce Evie to nothing but the “mom friend.” It's demeaning to her very complex character and forces her (a character of color) to be nothing but an accessory and a “make-friend-happy machine” to the main white protagonist. However: you seem to think that the reason Evie shouldn’t be reduced to “mom friend” is because she's bad at it. And that she’s bad at it specifically with Mal. First of all: she’s a teenager. She shouldn’t have to be good at parenting anyone, especially not her friends who are her age and (should be at her) general level of maturity. Second: what has she done wrong? Especially in her relationship with Mal? She’s always there for Mal no matter how much trauma/distress that it causes for her during the entire series. Even just being around Mal probably stirs up trauma for Evie, who was exiled for ten years because of, and then ruthlessly tormented, harassed, and even physically assaulted by Mal. The fact that she is still Mal’s friend is most likely due to fear on Evie’s part (fear of Mal hurting her again, fear of losing other friends by cutting off Mal, etc). Although that’s obviously not healthy for either of them, it’s disproportionately worse for Evie, who is basically trapped in endless uncomfortable situations where she is forced to interact with, constantly cater to the emotions of, and coddle her abuser. Basically, Mal has never made amends or even bothered to stop emotionally abusing/using Evie, at least not in any substantial way. The reason that Evie is sometimes subpar at her very, very demanding role in this toxic, abusive relationship that she was forced into is not her fault in any way shape or form, nor is it due to any character or personality “flaw” of hers. Evie is not comfortable around Mal, and probably never will be. Mal does not treat Evie as an equal or a friend, she treats her like a mother or a servant. They have never had a healthy relationship, and they probably never will, and that is not due to any mistakes or shortcomings on Evie’s part. It is due to the fact that Mal was a bully to Evie only to eventually force her into a toxic friendship from which she benefits and Evie suffers.

Unpopular Evie opinion

I’ve been thinking about about how Evie sort of exhibits the darker side of the team mom personality trope. Everyone thinks she’s a Mrs Weasley. But sometimes she can come off more like a well intentioned mother gothel. And Mal suffers from it most often. But a lot of the fandom have their bloody shipping goggles on so they think Evie being Mal’s beloved smother is romantic chemistry instead of fully unhealthy. At least once in each movie she doesn’t really think of what Mal herself wants before she acts.

Film one. Tried to put make up on her when she’s plotting

Film two. The entirety of their talk after she pulled her away from Ben after the paps got thrown out

Film three. Accidental guilt trip after she got manipulated by the in laws.

I love Evie. She’s my seventh favourite after Mal and before their cousin. But the fact remains. She isn’t as in tune with other people’s feelings as many would like to believe. It’s not a bad thing. It’s a very realistic flaw given who her mother is. However. Treating her like the ultimate example of a care bear isn’t really doing her justice. Because like I keep pointing out. If you don’t acknowledge the flaws of the characters you like then you’re not liking every aspect of them.

#descendants #evie descendants #descendants critical #descendants 2 #anti malvie #descendants 3 #disney descendants #anti mal bertha #mal descendants #ben descendants #ben deserves better #evie deserves better #evie grimhilde

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y0d00p · 2 years ago

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36 :3

Do you have OC pairs where the other part belongs to someone else (siblings, lovers, friends etc)?

My oldest cases of pairing my OCs with other people's OCs were all with VR. I don't remember if Kitty or the Trio of Terror came first because they were very close, but...

When I was like 14 and @pukad0n was like, 11, we shipped VR with her (at the time) persona/self insert/oc Kitty (on the right). On the left is @teenydragator 's OC Javari who was like crack shipped with VR like a year or two after? idk. Lainie and Teeny probably do not want their 15+ year old art put on blast so I won't be sharing old pics from then, this doodle is from a VR anniversary pic I did like 8 years ago.

Both pairs only lasted like a couple years and disappeared for a long time but have returned in recent times in different forms. Now Kitty is a horror youtuber that talks about VR along with other cryptids and VR has adopted Javs as his son.

(by @dimzymicrobe)

(left by me, right by @prodigalbeem)

On the other side of the coin is the 𝓣𝓻𝓲𝓸 𝓸𝓯 𝓣𝓮𝓻𝓻𝓸𝓻 which consisted of VR, Paradox (red pigtails, belonging to Beem) and PETE (monitor head, belonging to Person I Don't Associate With Anymore). They popped up around VR/Kitty time and persisted for many years. Their whole shtick was that they all killed people so they just became a group of freaks that caused havoc and mayhem together. It was a whole Thing with my friend group at the time. Nowadays it's just VR and Para, but the shtick is still the same lmao.

Then for like 8 years I shipped all my OCs with the OCs of a bigoted weirdo that I'm not going to talk about.

For a short time I shipped Lad with a couple OCs from 2 other people I don't really talk to anymore, including one that self shipped themself with Lad. I'm on ok terms with that one these days but this makes me sad to talk about so moving on!

Nowadays I mostly just ship my OCs with Teeny. The major one is CEO with their OCs Mik and Lumi. In most cases it was Mik and is now Lumi but in some AUs Mik has persisted instead... Mik also gets shipped with Irst and Lumi with VP. :3

Lad often acts as a guardian/father figure to Mik, and gets regularly harassed by Teeny's OCs Arty and Ophie and is shipped with their computer OC Archie...

DMK and Morpho (my OCs) are shipped with MK and Galacta (Teeny's OCs) respectively, as well as Drasko and Nari with Insu and Kilian, the actual OC expies of those characters lmao.

There's a couple others (Lil and Tilsi, Tro and Wamasu, etc) but the rest have very little development. Sorry for no pics, neither of us draws anymore and most of the pics that exist are porn HAHA.

#long post

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bughead-in-the-comics · 3 years ago

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Why did you call this bughead in the comics? Betty and Jughead are just friends and Jughead is ace in the comics. It completely removes an underrepresented identity in the LGBTQ community.

Archie Comics has been around for 80 plus years. It is constantly being handled by different writers and artists who have their own visions and versions, so like most comic books, its stories and characters are bound to face issues when it comes to continuity and consistency. Basically, what I'm really trying to say is that every story and every version of the characters in the Archie Comics catalog is canon and valid.

So... is Jughead ace or not? The answer is that he is both. There are versions of the comics where he shows signs that he is ace and there is one where he is actually confirmed to be ace (Zdarsky and Henderson's Jughead #4, 2016), but there are also some stories where Jughead is neither asexual nor aromantic. Besides, whether we like it or not, the Riverdale tie-in comics also count as canon now.

What baffles me is that a lot of people use Jughead’s asexuality to invalidate Bughead. I’m not an expert about these things, but I’m pretty sure asexual people are allowed to date. Even aromantic people can date if they want to. In fact, even during those times when he has proclaimed that he has no interest in women whatsoever, Jughead has dated a long list of girls in the comics even without being bribed with food (to the anon who requested Jughead’s dating history, I’m sorry it’s taking a while, but I can assure you that I’m making a lot of progress and I’ve compiled a LOT of material so please don’t worry because I will fulfill my promise). There are even stories where Jughead either engages in consensual displays of affection or admits that he enjoys them. So yeah. The Jughead who chased after Betty asking for kisses (like in Kiss Me, You Fool! from Betty #151, 2006 and in Switch Witch from Archie’s Pal Jughead #123, 1965) and the Jughead who stole Betty from Reggie during a movie date in Conform and Reform (Archie’s Pal Jughead #75, 1961) are just as canon and just as valid as the Jughead who loathes any form of skinship and goes around telling people that he is a woman-hater.

Dear Anon, I think it’s unfair to accuse us of erasing LGBTQ representation just because we like Bughead. Now, I can’t speak for everyone and I will never dare to, but personally, I have liked Betty and Jughead even before the term “Bughead” was even created. I've been an avid reader of the comics since I was a child and the stories that highlight the friendship between the two of them have always been my favorites. Did I think they’d make a cute couple? I sure did. Did I think I was offending the asexual community and erasing LGBTQ representation when I “shipped” Bughead then? No. Of course not. Anon, you have to understand, I was a kid then and I was already reading about Betty and Jughead in the comics way before I even knew or understood the spectrum of gender and sexuality. It was a simple case of just wanting to see two characters interact a lot because I think they make sense together. At the end of the day, anon, it’s just shipping. There are no set rules on who should be partnered with who (that’s why crack ships exist!), so if you chance upon some Bughead content and you’re not into it, just scroll past and move on. Seriously. Why waste your energy on something you hate when you can just spend it on something you love?

While I do agree with you that asexuality in underrepresented in mainstream media, I also don’t think it’s right to pour your frustration on a fandom that supports constantly-evolving characters. Especially characters from comic books. I’ve been bombarded with accusations of being anti-LGBTQ since I’ve started this blog ever since it became public knowledge that Kevin Keller mentioned that Jughead was asexual in the Zdarsky comics. The comments I get sometimes are so bad that I just delete them immediately. You prefer asexual Jughead? That’s alright, anon. Go ahead and support asexual Jughead. Asexual Jughead is great. But please, please, please let me appreciate my Betty-loving Jughead too. You may not be fond of him, but that’s the Jughead that I like, so please let me ship him with Betty in peace. Your Jughead and my Jughead are equally important, anon. We shouldn’t be arguing about which one is correct or superior. They’re the same character and they’re both awesome.

...as for the name of the blog, well, I think it’s pretty self-explanatory. Have a lovely day, pals ‘n’ gals! ♥

#bughead #ask

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reidyoulikeabook · 4 years ago

Text

Sometimes You Just Don’t Know the Answer

4 times you don’t know the answer, and the 1 time you do

This is the 2nd part to Personal Google! (You don’t have to read it to understand this, but it exists if you want to).

Ship: BAU!reader x Spencer Reid

Summary: You’d call yourself a pretty educated individual, and most people wouldn’t argue with that, given that you’re a member of the BAU at Quantico. There’s just something about your best friend Spencer Reid that gets you all tongue tied.

Warnings: Mentions of cases and case-typical violence, mentions of alcohol, Spencer and Reader being idiots again.

Word count: 3k

A/N: The feedback (in asks and the tag reblogs) for Personal Google was so lovely and encouraging and I am very grateful for it! I only made this account a few days ago and I’m already so glad I did :) I hope this is a satisfactory second part and, requests are open!

(This is the Reid I’m imagining here)

“What is up with you and Reid?” Emily’s volume is unmoderated at the best of times but right now it’s like she’s trying to alert the entirety of Virginia to your dating woes.

Dating woes might be a stretch, actually. Somehow, just her implication that something is happening between you and Spencer (even though it isn’t, unless you count two exhausted idiots falling asleep on each other and being too bashful to ever mention it again), is enough to get you feeling uncharacteristically shy.

“Nothing,” you shrug, “Well. I don’t know, honestly, nothing I guess? We haven’t spoken about that night.”

Emily’s eyes rake over you, and you can tell she’s waiting for you to continue.

“There’s nothing!” you object, “We just, it was accidental, we fell asleep because we were watching a documentary and we were tired and neither of us fell asleep on purpose.”

She laughs, dry and amused, “At this rate, you’ll be lucky to have sorted things out before you’re 50.”

You scowl, but it’s only because you know she’s right.

***

You don’t have much time to think about your situation with Spencer for a few weeks, considering the rate at which the cases come rolling in. This newest one arrives within about two days of the last one you’d just wrapped up. It’s actually kind of rude, you’ve decided, that the serial killers of America have decided to deny you two weekends in a row.

You’re briefed on the case quickly: four women have gone missing over the past 7 months from a small town in Ohio. There’s no distinct pattern that can be discerned among the victims, the oldest is 60 and white, the youngest is 23 and Asian-American. However, the first three have been found dead in the past two weeks, all within a mile of each other and all killed with the same MO: ligature strangulation.

“So we have no idea how he’s choosing them,” you say.

“No,” Hotch replies, with a sigh.

Meaning that this is probably going to take a while. Spencer senses the way you tense up a little as you absorb that fact. So he goes out of his way to sit next to you on the plane. Once the discussion about the case is done, he nudges you gently, “Did you bring a book?”

You shake your head, “I finished the one in my go-bag. Didn’t have a chance to replace it.”

“Would you like to read this with me?”

You place your hand on his wrist, gently turning it so you can see the cover, “Spencer this is written in Greek.”

“I can translate,” he says.

You move closer to him then, your head resting just against his plane seat and your chin almost jutting against his shoulder.

“Is this okay?”

He nods. The remaining 45 minutes of the flight are spent with him reading to you softly, adding in his own thoughts as he translates and sometimes going off on little tangents. By the time you land you’ve entirely forgotten about your ire with the case. You’re focused only on the characters he introduces you to, who are clearly in love even if they’re too stupid to see it, and the way his nose crinkles a little when he reaches a word with no direct English translation.

Whhat you don’t realise, is that you end up folding into him: head pressed against his chest. Somehow, neither of you notice how you naturally gravitate towards each other. Some pair of profilers.

Hotch sends you in different cars to the precinct, and you’re soon reminded of your frustration as you’re caught up in the hub-a-bub of the case. It’s not until you’re leaving the station, after a long and relatively fruitless briefing with the medical examiners and local PD, that you even have time to acknowledge Spencer properly again.

And even then, it’s only when Hotch says.

"You'll be sharing a room with Reid, alright?"

He’s only really asking as a formality. Nobody questions Hotch’s assignments for them. So why, then, do you feel yourself flush a little.

Why then, do you feel so embarassed replying, “Alright.”

***

There was nothing much to be nervous about with sharing a room, as it so happened. The past day and a half had been a whirlwind since the unsub had snatched a fifth victim. You’d been sleeping in shifts, making sure that some of you were awake at all times to keep working.

You were working on the geographical profile with Spencer, and had taken to driving around to look for landmarks at night, when there was nothing much else to do. There were maps but sometimes it helped just to get things embedded in your brain. And now, at 4am, you’re bursting into the conference room occupied by Spencer and Rossi, because you might just have got something.

"I have an idea,” you say, and before anybody can even respond you’re scribbling hurriedly on the whiteboard.

“Slow down kiddo,” Rossi laughs.

“Sorry I’m just,” you cut yourself off, slightly flustered and tapping your foot with frustration as you try to put the last pieces of it together, “Diana Matthews.”

“Yeah?” Spencer responds.

“She was the one who lived on Lakefield right?” Rossi asks.

Annoyingly, you can’t remember off rote. Spencer sees the pinch of frustration in your brow. He senses that you’re heading for the case file.

So, he answers, “Yeah 38 Lakefield Drive.”

Smiling gratefully at him, you breathe a sigh of relief, “There’s three different stores in the area for this local electronic repair company, Gladston Digital, in this area. Two of them aren’t accounted for on the maps because these are from last year, and one of the ones on Google is pinned to the wrong street, there are two Minister Avenues and one’s on the complete opposite side of town.”

Denoting the map with annotations as you go, you continue, “All of the victims had residences within a mile of one of the three stores. And we interviewed the area manager, Paul something, he manages all three stores. He came to speak to me and Hotch while we were scoping the area.”

“Inserting himself into the investigation,” Rossi notes, “Fits the profile. A stalker like that would want to remain an illusion of control.”

“I just need to get Garcia on the phone to see if it checks out.”

Spencer just watches, slightly in awe, as you make the phone call to Garcia. She manages to cross-reference bank statements and emails, showing that all five of the victims had taken something of theirs in for repair sometime in the year before their disappearance. And he feels something in his gut. Pride? Maybe. That’s certainly a part of it.

But there’s something else in there too. Your eyes meet his, with a flicker of recognition. He realises what it is then: marvel. Your brain works so fast, and that’s not novel to him, he knows you’re intelligent but there’s just something about how fast you manage to put it all together. You conjure something out of nothing, a link that he’d missed. And he’s reminded, again, that he has to try and keep up with you sometimes. He wonders if you know that.

Probably not, he thinks. You’re rambling down the phone and gesturing with your hands, in a way you may or may not have picked up from him, and all he can think is how you look so in your element. And beautiful.

He’s a little embarassed about how normal it feels for that last observation to pop into his head.

***

“To _____!” Prentiss cheers.

8pm has rolled around. Since your revelation 16 hours earlier, you managed to confirm your thinking, apprehend Paul Bader, and save the fifth victim. All in all, a pretty good days work. It’s not just down to you, but everyone’s singing your praises so loudly it’s making you a little embarassed.

Even Hotch sets a drink down in front of you, squeezing your shoulder, “Really good work today ____.”

Fair to say you’ve probably peaked there.

Spencer is sat to your left, sipping at a Mai Tai that you know is going to have him giggly in about an hours time.

“I wasn’t trying to keep you out before,” you tell him, “I was going to come and wake you up when I got back but you were in the conference room.”

He smiles, “I know. It was my shift to sleep.”

“Bet you’re paying for that now.”

“A little,” he chuckles, “It’s worth it.”

"I just didn’t want you to think I was hanging you out to dry. You know, to make myself look good,” you decide to press further: mostly just because the team has sung your praises and that kind of attention makes you shirk at the best of times. Let alone when you’re sat with the guy responsible for creating half the damn profile.

His eyebrows furrow. You worry for a minute about what he’s going to say, but then, “I would never think that about you. We’re a team.”

He squeezes your hand. Maybe that’s your favourite thing about Spencer, really. More than the fact he remembers to get your caffeine just how you like it, more than how gentle he is with just about everybody he encounters, more than his relentless enthusiasm for your questions about whatever pops into your mind. No, it’s his modesty. The way he doesn’t even think for a moment to be prideful or arrogant about his intelligence. He genuinely roots for you in every moment, you think.

“Are you okay?” he asks, “You seem a little..quiet.”

It wasn’t until he mentioned it that you realise you’d let your thoughts run away with you, “No. I’m good. Just thinking about how good of a teacher you are.”

“You think so?”

“Of course I think so. You’ve taught me. I didn’t know the first thing about geographical profiling when I got here two years ago. I could barely read a map,” you laugh, keeping your tone sincere, “You’re a really good teacher Spence. I feel like I learn so much from just being around you.”

“I often don’t give you much choice.”

You smile, “I wouldn’t want you to. Really. I’m always interested in everything you have to say. I think you know that. But I wanted to tell you anyway. So you’re sure.”

He’s incredibly grateful you get pulled into a conversation by Morgan, giving him a moment to process.

A lifetime of being insecure. Of feeling like nobody was interested in what he had to say but not being able to really control whether he said it anyway. All this time being insecure in himself, and you liked it. Complimented him on it, even. Considered him a teacher. He doesn’t think he could articulate, in any of the languages he speaks, the sense of peace that brings him.

-----

The Mai Tai’s do make him sleepy. Buzzed, but sleepy. After being bought rounds by Hotch, Morgan, and Spencer, you’re feeling exactly the same. It’s only 10:30pm by the time you decide to make your departure for the night. This is much to the chagrin of Emily, who lolls against Rossi’s side demanding that you stay.

“Some of us have been up since 4 this morning, breaking their backs to keep this country safe,” You tease, putting on a melodramatic air just for affect, “Besides, you’re going to regret this when you have to be up and back on the jet in the morning.”

“You will, especially since you still owe me that report,” Hotch teases, with a smile.

Emily rolls her eyes, “You two are no fun.”

She’s joking, goading you, but unfortunately for her you have a sleepy Spencer nuzzling against you which is a far more pressing matter to deal with.

“Come on Spence, let’s get you to bed,” You say, gently wiggling out from under him and offering him your hand.

He pouts at the momentary loss of contact. It’s subtle. You catch it though. He links his fingers through your own, holding your hand properly, and you try not to read into it too much. He’s tipsy. He’s tired.

Ignoring the deliberately obvious eyebrow-wiggling from Morgan, you make for the lift.

“You didn’t have to come to bed just for me,” Spencer says, “I feel bad for taking you away from the others. I’m not that drunk, I could get myself to bed.”

You shake your head, “I wanted to go to bed with you.”

His eyes snap to you, a grin playing on his lips.

“I mean, I wanted to go to bed. And we’re sharing a room. So I’m going to bed with you. As in we’re going to the place where bed is, together.”

He’s just enough tipsy to be confident enough to jest, “Sure.”

You roll your eyes, “You sound like Morgan.”

“What did Morgan say?”

“Don’t act like you don’t know exactly what Morgan always says whenever anybody goes off together.”

“That they’re having sex,” He giggles, tipsiness shining through again.

“Yes, Spence, that they’re having sex.”

“But we’re not.”

The elevator dings as you arrive at your floor, saving your brain from delving into the implications of what he’s just said. And whether that was a disappointed or netural tone.

He hasn’t let go of your hand. He walks to the door with you, still keeping your hand in his. It’s hard not to let yourself read into it now. How holding hands with him could be such a casual thing. Hard not to imagine walking through bookshops with him, one hand in yours and the other picking books off the shelf he thought you’d like. The domesticity of it sickens you.

Then he lets go to cross to the bed.

“Aren’t you gonna put your pyjama’s on?” You ask.

“I wasn’t gonna sleep yet,” he says, “I was gonna...”

He looks bashful, suddenly, self-consciously licking his lower lip, “I was gonna ask if maybe you wanted to watch something with me. You can pick. I always pick.”

“This an excuse to get me in bed with you again, Spence?” You tease, just past tipsy enough not to care that this is the first time you’ve even acknowledged that night.

"Yeah, the Pearl Harbour ruse doesn’t work twice,” he jokes.

You wish you could find the courage to tease him more. Unfortunately, the liquid courage seems to have run out, and the topic somehow feels too delicate to touch.. Instead, you change quickly into your pyjama’s. Together, you pick something to watch, settling down. You’re suddenly thankful for the single bed, the necessity to be cozied up against him as you watch. To feel his chest, every beat of his heart. You swear it’s beating fast. Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking.

***

Just like last time, you wake up huddled against Spencer. Unlike last time, there’s no Emily banging the door down to drag you to the police station. No, it’s quiet.

You can’t see what time it is because there’s a Spencer between you and the clock. Your phone is in your back pocket but it’s hard to find any motivation whatsoever to move when you’re like this: face pressed into his chest, his head resting atop of yours so a single curl of his hair tickles your nose, his hand on your hip holding you against him.

His eyelashes flutter, “Are you awake?”

“Yeah. I just woke up.”

He smiles, “Me too.”

“Looks like we did it again.”

“Looks like we did,” his voice is quiet.

“Do you want me to move? If I’m...I don’t want to make you uncomfortable.”

His free hand comes up to your chin, tipping it so you’re looking him directly in the eyes. His pupils are dilated. In the dim light it’s hard to place the look on his face exactly. But it’s soft.

"C-Can I kiss you?” the question spills quickly from his lips, like he’s afraid he’ll change his mind if he doesn’t get it out fast, “I just. I don’t know if that’s what you want too, I’ve just really-”

"Kiss me, Spence. Please kiss me.”

The smile on his face would have made you fall in love with him, if you weren’t already. And then he kisses you. Barely. Your lips are just grazing against one anothers. You tilt yourself upwards, towards him, giving him a better angle. Then he really kisses you, capturing your lips in his. It’s sweet, it’s soft, it’s...it’s everything. It’s everything, how his hands tangle themselves tentatively in your hair, how he kisses you so deeply, drinking you in.

His hand cups your cheek, then he’s pulling back, just a tiny bit, to mumble against your lips, “I’ve wanted to do this for so long.”

The only appropriate way you can think to verbalise your agreement, is closing the gap between your lips again. There’s an urgency to it this time. Your lips move quickly, passionately. He swipes his tongue across your lower lip and you let him in, your tongues delicately dancing together. He’s good. He’s good and you don’t even notice the morning breath or faint taste of rum, it’s just Spencer.

When you finally come apart, you’re out of breath.

“I didn’t think you’d ever do that,” you say, “I was worried I was reading this whole thing wrong.”

He frowns then, that little nose crinkle appearing again, “I thought I was too obvious.”

“So did I. Maybe it’s best if we don’t tell Hotch how bad we are at profiling each other. He might rethink his decision to take us on.”

He laughs, “Not being able to profile when somebody’s in love with you might be a cause for concern. There are several obvious phyical signs of love, including dilation of pupils when looking at the object of your affection, heart rate synchronisation.”

“How am I supposed to know if our heart rates have synchronised?”

He smiles. Pressing a finger to your lips, he dips his head in the small chasm between your two chests. In the silence, in the early morning quiet, in the absence of all distraction you can hear it. The steady thrum of your hearts, pounding away at identical paces. The sound that told you that some part of you had always known.

--------------

Tagslist: @takeyourleap-of-faith @sassiest-politician (let me know if you’d like to be added/removed from this list)

#spencer reid fanfic #spencer reid fanfiction #spencer reid x reader #imagine spencer reid #reid x reader #spencer reid #spencer reid fluff #imagine criminal minds #criminal minds imagine #criminal minds x you #bau!reader

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madeyoumyvillain · 4 years ago

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You were baited and fooled by Bardugo. How did she do that exactly? I want to hear the rant you probably have for it

There is no rant,I've gotten past it at this point. Shadow and Bone was marketed as an enemies to lovers story and we all know how that ended. If Leigh wanted us to NOT ship Darklina and root for the friends to lovers fighting for the greater good and defeating evil,I wouldn't have said anything. I don't think many people would ship Darklina if that was the case. But it's not. Yes,yk what,there is a rant.

And not just Leigh,many authors know that ETL arc is widely popular and loved so they start off their books or market them as ETL to grab the attention of the vast majority of its lovers,but it ends up being either friends to lovers or something entirely different. If she didn't want us to ship it,maybe she shouldn't have baited us? Why would you use "a dark heart,a pure soul,a love that will last forever" as a tag line when you plan on ending that ship and completely changing it? Maybe try promoting your actual hero and ship if you want the readers to NOT ship the wrong couple? Why would you talk about The Darkling and NOT about Malyen if he's the actual love interest,the good guy,the hero?

Leigh Bardugo hates The Darkling,hates us for liking him and has mentioned in KoS how we're a cult of crazy people for liking Aleksander. If she didn't want us to like him then maybe she shouldn't have written him as someone with ACTUAL motives while th good guys are fighting only because it's The Right Thing ™ to do while doing NOTHING about the actual problem and fucking off into the sunset to fulfill cottagecore dreams?

Picking sides in YOUR OWN fandom is the worst,most immature thing you can do. She recently opened up about how The Darkling embodies her abusive ex. Therefore,Darklina is abusive and we're abuse apologists for shipping it. Let me remind you that Bardugo herself forgets that Darklina isn't the main relationship,Malina is. And Malina is the exact kind of toxic relationship you find in real life. Malyen embodies toxic masculinity. So maybe while trying to make Darklina toxic,she forgot she was making Malina toxic too? It's not a competition for less or more,if you're abusive,you're abusive. Less or more doesn't matter,there's no better alternative of being abused. If she wanted us to believe that Alina is a strong,fierce and independent woman who makes her own decisions and doesn't need anyone, if she really wanted us young girls who are stupid and naive to never let a man hold us back then letting Alina end up alone would be the best thing she could do. Because neither of those men deserved Alina.

She has openly called Darkling stans disturbed and said that she wrote him as a lesson for younger girls to not excuse evil men just because they have slick hair and sharp jawline haha. I shouldn't be angry at her for shoving a FTL down my throat when she advertised a Light/Dark romance because she it did for ME so a hot and evil and charismatic man doesn't end up taking advantage of the stupid and naive girl I am. I should thank her for teaching me that I'm a young and dumb girl ready to be taken advantage of by evil, hot,dark, centuries old shadow summoners. Too bad I haven't found one yet:/

Look at these pictures and tell me where the fuck did she talk about her main,endgame ship and tell me if this isn't bait or not.

But no,I'm an absolute fool. A villain romanticizer. An abuse apologist. A pedophile and war criminal enabler in her eyes. I'm someone who hasn't been through anything traumatic in my entire life according to the antis when it's actually LB and them who can't differentiate between fiction and reality. It's LB who is one of the antis and shames fans of her own characters.

So yes,she is a baiter. She did fool us. And she keeps on dragging Aleksander's bloody corpse through the mud to milk money because she knows that alot of people in the GV fandom love him and expected a redemption arc for him. She uses him time and time again to hurt us. She's always treated Darkling Stans like shit. Always tried to make us feel wrong or morally corrupt for liking him. Tell me,how am I supposed to like this behaviour and why exactly should I respect someone who shames me for liking something that doesn't exist?

#shadow and bone #the darkling #ben barnes #the grishaverse #alina starkov #jessie mei li #darklina #aleksander morozova #general kirigan #anti leigh bardugo #grishaverse spoilers #shadow and bone spoilers #sab

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firelxdykatara · 4 years ago

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ppl love to forget that katara: 1. has her own taste, 2. developed around aang, he needed her for his development and vice versa, 3. ZUTARA IS SHIP BETWEEN AN OPPRESOR X OPPRESSED!!! Ignoring all of the development they had with their respective partners and the trauma Zuko caused Katara!!

In the infamous words of one Luke Skywalker: amazing. every word of what you just said was wrong.

It’s actually kind of ironic that you bring up Katara’s taste, since, throughout the show, we have examples of the guys she likes, to greater or lesser extents in canon--Jet (explicit romantic feelings on her part, word of god that jet was her first kiss--a kiss that would have been consensual, incidentally, something you should keep in mind for later) and Haru (she denies the crush, but that could just as easily have been because of the abomination he’d been growing on his lip rather than denying those feelings ever existed), both of whom have much more in common (in terms of both emotional and physical maturity, and physical appearance) with Zuko than either of them has with Aang.

Zuko’s book 3 hairstyle is almost exactly reminiscent of Jet’s, even, if not quite as floofy.

(This is probably in part because of Jet’s function as a foil of Zuko within the narrative, particularly given their book 2 encounters, which I think just further solidifies my point that, were it not for extenuating circumstances [like the fact that Zuko was introduced as an enemy and they had significant obstacles to hurdle before they could be friends], Zuko would have been exactly Katara’s type. Had they met under different circumstances, she could have been the girl he went on a date with in Ba Sing Se. Just something to think about.)

So, yes, we’ve established that Katara has her own taste. Her tastes seem to be boys with great hair who are taller than her, the same age or older, and of a similar maturity level.

Aang falls short (heh, short) on all counts. So it isn’t Katara’s taste in boys that led her to be interested in him. Hm!

Next, you claim that Katara ‘developed around Aang’--that she was necessary for his development, and that he was necessary for hers.

Let’s take a moment to examine that, shall we?

I will absolutely grant you that Katara was necessary for Aang’s development--only to a point, of course, but we’ll get to that later--but was he really necessary for Katara‘s growth? I suppose I could grant you this on a generous technicality--he did, after all, provide her with the means to finally leave the South Pole and find a waterbending master to teach her (although she wound up largely self-taught anyway). But that had nothing to do with his relationship to Katara and everything to do with the structure of the plot--Katara and Sokka find Aang (and he never would have gotten out of that iceberg without Katara’s own righteous anger, so even that leads back to her own power), and then they go on a quest to find teachers for the Chosen One and save the world.

The story could not have begun without first finding Aang and then providing means for the other main characters to travel with him (or, in Zuko’s case, chase him), but this has nothing at all to do with Aang’s relationship to Katara. Aang was not a mover in Katara’s developmental arc--if anything, he acted as an obstacle more often than not, his actions ranging from innocent but obnoxious (playing and flirting with girls rather than helping with chores like picking up vital supplies, leaving Katara to do all of the quite literal heavy lifting and keeping her stuck in the role of caretaker that she’d been thrust into following the death of her mother), to deliberate and harmful (hiding the map to Katara and Sokka’s father, a truly selfish action, regardless of his lack of malicious intent, and one for which he never actually apologized), to somewhere in between (”she didn’t really mean that” he says to the man refusing to train Katara because she’s a girl, when yes, she very much did mean that, and Aang was no help in finally getting the old codger to eat his words--Katara had to shove them down his throat her own damn self).

While Katara’s overall arc wasn’t exactly big and dynamic (like Zuko’s redemption arc), or in-your-face (like Sokka getting force-fed Respect Women Juice and his eventual growth into a tactician and leader), it was very much present and woven into her character--and Aang had almost no part in it. He provided her with the means to get to the North Pole, but left Katara alone to fight the patriarchy herself. He messed around while Katara took it on herself to do the chores and keep the Gaang alive, but he did almost nothing to decrease that burden so she could grow out of the caretaker role. (Contrary to popular shipper claims, Aang didn’t actually teach Katara to have fun. She already knew how to have fun. But she couldn’t indulge, because she had a responsibility to her family and her tribe, and later to her brother and Aang and Toph, and Aang goofing off and trying to get her to do the same only added to her burdens rather than subtracting from them.) He provided Katara with the necessary motive to learn to heal herself, but he certainly didn’t seem to learn from the experience of accidentally burning her, preferring instead to claim he was never going to firebend again, despite already knowing, at that point, that he was going to need to master fire along with the other elements to become a fully realized Avatar and defeat the Firelord.

He didn’t help Katara keep them alive during The Desert. (In fact, he ran off, leaving her to desperately try to keep Sokka and Toph from succumbing to the heat while worrying for his safety.) In The Painted Lady, Katara makes the decision to stall the Gaang and do what she can to help the Fire Nation villagers on her own--Aang agrees to help her when he finds out, but he wasn’t actually instrumental in her making that choice. The Puppetmaster was, again, Katara finding a master of her own, and having to deal with the fallout from that. And in The Southern Raiders, Aang was--perhaps unknowingly, if I’m being generous, because he is a child and could not reasonably be expected to fully understand the implications of what he was asking her to do or why it was impossible--actively impeding Katara’s development! She desperately needed closure, something he could not understand and actively belittled and dismissed. The only reason he relented in the end (but not without a condescending ‘I forgive you! Does that give you any ideas???’ parting shot lmao) was because Katara was planning to take Appa anyway, and letting her go (and hoping she’d just magically wind up doing things his way) was easier than trying to fight her on it.

While Aang’s existence was necessary for Katara to start down her own path, she needed neither his guidance nor his approval to follow it--and absolutely nothing would change about Katara’s arc if you removed their romantic relationship entirely.

Possibly because the only changes needed to do so would be to remove the two times Aang kissed Katara without her consent (which, hopefully, no one would actually miss), and the epilogue kiss (which was awkward and unnecessary to begin with, since ending the entire show on a romantic kiss as the final shot kind of missed the point of the story to begin with, but that’s another discussion). None of these kisses (which are the only moments in which Katara’s feelings for Aang are so much as addressed; do note that addressing them, or hinting that they needed to be, is not the same as saying she exhibited any sign of reciprocating them) altered anything about Katara’s behavior, her personal arc, or (and perhaps most critically) her relationship with Aang.

It’s that last point that is really damning, as far as ‘Katara obviously had feelings for Aang, she kissed him in the finale!’ goes. Because she didn’t ‘obviously’ have feelings for him. And the fact that he kissed her before the invasion and then she forgot about it (she literally had no idea what he was talking about during the play’s intermission until he reminded her that he’d kissed her) is pretty clear evidence that she didn’t actually have feelings for him. Not the kind he had for her.

I’ve been a teenage girl. I know what it’s like to be surprise!kissed by your crush. And I absolutely for a full fact know that I had not completely forgotten about that kiss three months later and had, in fact, spent most of my waking hours thinking about it and remembering it and trying to talk to him about it. Now, granted, I was not in the middle of a war, but even if I had been, I doubt I would have needed reminding about the fact that the boy I’ve supposedly been developing feelings for had kissed me and showed clearly that he had those feelings for me too.

At the very least, if Katara was harboring feelings that she was worried about approaching until after the war, her relationship dynamic with Aang should have shifted. But it didn’t. She acted the exact same way with him after the Day of Black Sun as she did before it--that is, as a mother figure and a caretaker, responsible for his wellbeing. (And it’s clear she never took him down off the pedestal she needed him to occupy, either--let it not be said that the unhealthy aspects of their relationship only went one way.)

And book 3 is, incidentally, where Katara went from being vital to Aang’s development to being detrimental to it--or, rather, Aang’s refusal to let go of his attachment to her (despite ostensibly having done as much at the end of book 2) was. Because despite having been told by, perhaps, the greatest authority left in the world on Air Nomad culture (even more than Aang, who had left his temple with a child’s understanding of his culture that was never able to mature because he got stuck in the ice berg while his people were wiped out) that he had to let go of his possessive attachment to this girl who never even expressed the possibility that she might harbor romantic feelings for him to begin with, after Azula killed him and Katara brought him back, he went right back into the mindset of Katara is mine, it’s just a matter of time.

And the narrative validated him for it.

Notice how, during Ember Island Players, Aang says the following (emphasis mine):

“We kissed at the invasion, and I thought we were gonna be together. But we’re not.”

First of all, if you go back and watch the scene, it’s clear it wasn’t a mutual kiss. Aang sprang a surprise kiss on Katara, which left her shocked and unhappy after he flew off. (The decision to have her looking away and frowning was a deliberate one on the part of Bryke, who wanted Katara’s feelings kept ambiguous. Heaven forbid you allow the animators to make it clear that this fourteen-year-old girl who was just kissed without her consent by someone she’d never once demonstrated romantic feelings toward might actually have some. Heaven forbid she have a little agency in her own romantic narrative. But whatever.)

Second, he says he thought they were gonna be together.

He thought.

He never once even asked Katara what she thought--or even how she felt. He just assumes. He assumes that if he kisses her, she’ll kiss him back and they’ll get together. He assumes that she must have feelings for him, even though her body language is closed off and she told him with her words that she did not want to talk or think about this right now, and kisses her regardless of those signals, upsetting her and leading her to storm off.

And the narrative rewards him, because despite the fact that they don’t have a single significant scene together after that second disastrous kiss, Katara just decides off-screen that she Does Love Him Really and walks onto the balcony to make out with him.

The upshot of all this being that, while Katara was indeed instrumental to a lot of Aang’s early growth and development, Aang was not necessary for her own arc, and their romantic relationship (such as it was) actively hampered Aang’s development in book 3, while removing it would change absolutely nothing for Katara (except saving her from some painfully embarrassing memories).

As far as your third point, I’m simply not going to get baited into explaining how reducing Zutara to an ‘oppressor/oppressed’ relationship is not only insulting to interracial couples irl (not to mention any other couple with a potentially unbalanced dynamic of societal power, since there are many more axis of oppression than just racial), but demeaning to Zuko and Katara, their personal arcs as well as their relationship development together.

However, I will point out that Zuko was not responsible for any of Katara’s trauma. She did not find violence and fighting in bending battles to be traumatic--in fact, she reveled in it. She enjoyed fighting against Zuko at multiple points (especially noticeable in their battle at the end of book 1), because she wanted to fight--she always had--and once she had the ability, she was ready to throw down with anyone who gave her the slightest reason. (Including, by the way, her own potential waterbending master.) Aang’s death at the end of book 2 was Azula’s doing, and while I think that contributed to Katara’s extreme reaction to Zuko joining the gaang, it was not something for which she actively blamed him, and it wasn’t something she believed would be repeated--she let him go off alone on a journey to find the original firebending masters with Aang well before she chose to forgive him. So she already trusted Zuko’s intentions and that Aang would be safe with him.

Finally, because this has gotten long enough already, I hope you now understand that Zuko and Katara getting together would not require ignoring any of their development with their canonical romantic partners. We’ve already established that Katara’s arc wouldn’t change in the slightest if all of Aang’s romantic advances were removed, and I haven’t even gotten into how Mai meant nothing in the grand scheme of Zuko’s development because I’m pretty sure that’s just self-evident. I mean, the video compilation put together by Nick showcasing Zuko’s journey throughout the series doesn’t include a single scene with Mai, though it does include several with Katara, and even Jin makes an appearance--because Katara, and even Jin, played key roles in Zuko’s personal journey, while his relationship with Mai happened entirely off-screen and her only real function was to showcase just how unhealthy trying to force himself back into the role of the Crown Prince was for him.

What development, exactly, is there between them to even ignore?

At any rate, I’ve gone on long enough--I hope you enjoy the fact that you activated my wordvomit trap card right when i was about to go to bed, anon, because I just spent two hours writing this instead. In case you’re interested in the TL;DR: at the end of the day, there was no meaningful, mutual development in Kataang’s romantic relationship, and those romantic feelings that did exist were largely one-sided and ultimately detrimental to Aang’s development in the final third of his overall arc. Meanwhile, Mai meant nothing to Zuko’s journey--rather like Aang’s romantic overtures, she could be removed from the show completely and nothing about his story would change--while Zuko and Katara were both vital to each other’s overall storylines, arcs and development. This, coupled with the fact that Zuko never actually traumatized Katara and, in fact, helped her achieve closure from the biggest source of her own trauma, means that Zuko and Katara have better and more believable build up that could potentially lead to a romantic relationship than either of them have with their canon romantic partners.

So no, anon, I didn’t forget anything--I think you may have, though. Perhaps a rewatch is in order? Make sure not to close your eyes for the back half of book 3 this time.

#atla #zutara #zuko #katara #aang salt #kataang salt #maiko salt #salt for ts #just trying to cover my bases #asked #Anonymous

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desidarling123 · 4 years ago

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FACT CHECK: Did JKR sue people for writing Wolfstar fanfiction? [FALSE] [with sources]

So, if you're at all active in the HP fandom, and ESPECIALLY if you're on TikTok, you've likely come across a post or video claiming the following:

JKR LITERALLY SUED PEOPLE OVER WOLFSTAR FANFICTION! AND THAT'S ALSO WHY SHE MADE REMADORA CANON -- TO SPITE THE SHIPPERS!

I'm not sure who first started this claim or how its various permutations grew, but it spread at the speed of light across social media. This widely-circulated meme summarizes it:

For the LONGEST time, I didn't know what to make of it. The claims were vague enough that they seemed like they could be true -- after all, JKR is a megacunt and a renowned TERF. You don't need to fact-check either of those things.

But then -- for the first time ever -- I came across a video on TikTok claiming that what was being said was NOT true, and that it was being used SPECIFICALLY to stir up drama. Which was... crazy, to say least.

And that led me, well, to do my own research & fact-check. I've taken the original video's structure and added some exposition as well.

So here's the truth:

That 2003 case the above meme refers to? Not even REMOTELY what the situation was about. Hell, not even CLOSE.

In 2003, JKR sent a cease-and-desist letter to an explicit adult HP fan fiction website, called "Restricted Section". Here's the letter:

As the above letter states, the site was sent a notice because of overarching concerns that minors would accidentally stumble onto the sexually explicit content the site hosted after searching up 'Harry Potter'.

The hand-wringing over minor safety probably seems dated now, but it was, in fact, standard practice in the early 2000s - sexually explicit fan content was being removed across the internet for those exact concerns. In fact, just the year before, in 2002, fanfiction.net was purged of NC-17 content (which would happen one more time, in 2012).

I feel ridiculous stating it, but just to be clear -- in the above letter and all my subsequent research, there's NO evidence she went after Wolfstar -- or any ship, for that matter -- directly.

In fact, the letter goes an extra mile to declare that "our clients (JKR) make no complaint about innocent fan fiction written by genuine Harry Potter fans", but that, "there is plainly a very real risk that impressionable children... will be directed... to your sexually explicit website".

But that leads in nicely to the next point -- the website DIDN'T shut down, as per the letter's request. Instead, they added password protection to ensure only members older than 17 were accessing it.

OK, but why did JKR and Warner Bros go after this site in the first place? Most believe it was because of a widely-publicized article in THE SCOTSMAN that talked about the website. But, once again, this article doesn't go after Wolfstar in particular -- it only goes after Harry x Draco and Harry x Snape. The inclusion of latter was arguably what generated the biggest controversy -- the pairing of Harry, a fictional minor, with an adult character, in slash stories largely written by adult heterosexual women, was not one that could be cast in a good light to the general public. It's hardly a surprise JKR's lawyers sought to do something before the controversy got out of hand and worried parents started to make calls.

What I said before still goes, though. The legal core of the issue was ALWAYS to do NOT with the ships, but the EXPLICIT NATURE of the work -- and the (very real) concerns that the series' then-mostly-under-18 readership could find said works with very little as far as guardrails were concerned. (I know, because I was one of those kids)

TLDR; JKR did NOT sue people over Wolfstar fanfiction, she sent a cease-and-desist notice to a website that was not taking adequate precautions to prevent minors from accessing the explicit adult content on the site.

To be clear -- this is not meant to be a statement on what to ENJOY in your fandom ships. You can ship Wolfstar, Remadora, both, neither -- it really doesn't matter. I think the fandom is critical enough of the author to have reclaimed her work on our own terms, and people should be allowed to just, idk enjoy things.

But propagating straight-up falsehoods is dangerous, especially when it comes at the expense of 1) a safe fandom environment (see: the current fandom ship wars between Remadora and Wolfstar, which are difficult to watch) and 2) serves as a distraction from the ACTUAL garbage JKR engages in (of which there is plenty -- no need to make it up lol).

Also, truth be told -- inter-fandom ship wars don't generally add anything productive to the necessary conversations that need to be had about her works. The thought that dashing fan ships was a key motivator in her writing rather than, I don't know, plot concerns, is ludicrous on face, and gives fans a level of control over the original writer that just... doesn't exist IRL? And certainly didn't back then?

And again -- the books would have been VERY different series, plot-wise, if Sirius Black HAD lived. Him being in a relationship with Remus, confirmed or implied, has no relation to that decision.

If we have talk Harry Potter, I'd rather talk about just about anything else -- the racism, the misogyny, the lack of any sort of organic queer rep and JKR's inability to just own up to the problems in her works. But the minutiae of ship wars -- and the inevitable stream of disinformation that comes with it, sans any kind of concrete evidence -- is one I'd prefer to pass on.

SOURCES:

Cease-and-Desist Letter Copy: http://archive.is/HTLsq

THE SCOTSMAN Article: http://archive.is/VdEaY

Restricted Section Updates Page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20030815233612/http://www.restrictedsection.org/news.php

BONUS: The original TikTok video I came across whose structure and sources I shamelessly stole to read and build out my argument. I copied a lot of their wording because it explained it better than I could, you just get some bonus snarky commentary from yours truly

#wolfstar #remadora #atyd #all the young dudes #jk rowling #harry potter #fandom meta #fandom fact check

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leportraitducadavre · 4 years ago

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On Itachi, his fandom, and moral standpoints

Once again I come back with a meta, unsurprisingly, of Naruto’s manga and, more specifically, about a character in particular, Uchiha Itachi, his fandom and what it entails and represents. My decision to make him the primary focus of this meta is just to bring light (open the door for more in depth debates) of a deeper, much more complicated problem that Itachi represents, but undoubtedly surpasses him and the Naruto manga as a whole.

Be warned, my take on Itachi’s fandom does not contemplate those fans who merely enjoy him but do not negate important parts of his character, if that’s your particular case, then be assured that I did not have you in my mind when writing this. This is about, let’s say, the hardcore fandom he possesses, that justifies (and to some extent, celebrates) his implications in the UCM and blindfold loyalty to Konoha and its system.

How can I even begin to introduce Itachi’s character? What he was supposed to be and what he surprisingly became? How to start to explain his fenomenon? Itachi was not supposed to be good, from his introduction he was a manipulative, dark character that tortured physically and mentally Sasuke and was a threat to Naruto’s (the protagonist) life. At no point during the first part of the manga were we able to see glimpses of a “good” Itachi that the narrative later on tried to establish, and yet, there were three (conected) factors of imperative importance to understand the raise of his character from the first part of the manga to the other.

The first one was, let’s call it, his intrinsecal persona's appeal (and everything it encompases).

Itachi’s not the first cryptic male character that gets favored by a large part of the fandom for that mere trait (look at any shönen or show and see how many characters whose sole trait is to be mysterious becomes the fandom’s favorite), added to the fact that he’s powerful enough to subdue men who’s status of geniuses are often highlighted in the manga (Orochimaru and Kakashi), and his... physical charm, you have a powerful combo to make readers incline more and more on his favor. Itachi had sparked their interest.

There are boxes to fill to attract the public interest to a character, and Itachi filled in all of them.

The Power-Mystery-Beauty triangle is not an unknown formula (Christian Gray, Edward Cullen, to name characters from mainstream, from other manga there is Light, now surprisingly, Dabi) and in every fiction work it has appeared, it worked to lure the (female) public towards it.

But is that enough? For some, yes, for most, Itachi represents something that they desired profoundly, and that’s entirely attached to Sasuke’s character.

Even back in the first part of the manga, Sasuke’s character was received mixedly, there were people who saw his personality as too abrasive (similar to Itachi’s but because Sasuke was supposed to be with the nice guys, this aspect of him clashed rather harshly with his position on the narrative) and considered him a mere emo who believed himself to be better than Naruto and Sakura (he was, but he also acknowledged this fact, which make some readers disapprove of him even more).

Itachi challenged that “so-called” superiority, additionally downgrading and humiliating him in a way readers felt he, to some extent, deserved. The dislike of part of the fandom of Sasuke’s character found a way of purchase inside the manga. Naruto wasn’t strong enough (and eventually cared too much) to subdue Sasuke, Sakura was too in awe with him to “stand up against him”, Kakashi saw his greatness and taught him powerful jutsus while paying zero attention to his other students. Until Itachi, no other character seemed to put Sasuke “in his place”, because even the villains of each arc seemed particularly obsessed with Sasuke and Sasuke only, elevating even more his importance and status and sidelining Naruto and (of course), Sakura, who were left with mere participations in what seemed a Sasuke-focused plot. Up at this point, Sasuke was far more important than the actual protagonist of the manga but Itachi, who was actually Sasuke’s goal, who was actually the person Sasuke aspired to surpass, abused him, manipulated him and -more importantly- seemed more focused on getting Naruto -hence, retribution: the only person Sasuke seemed to care about didn’t seem care about him at all.

Itachi’s coolness, strength and mature handsomeness (that Sasuke did not present until Shippuden, but Itachi was literally introduced with), plus the dislike of Sasuke’s character and the belief that he needed to be rectified, the reason of which will be brought up next, appealed the teenage fandom in a way strong enough to catapult him inside the popularity polls just right after his presentation.

The Self-inserts inside Itachi’s fandom

As I introduced, a large part of the fandom back in the first part already, and in Shippuden particularly, had a deep dislike of Sasuke’s character and wanted him to suffer -to be beaten, to be “owned”, Itachi’s character fulfilled that wish, which takes me to the second factor.

You can’t explain this point in particular without adding the “self-insert” and “reader-insert” notions that often gets attached to Itachi (Sakura, Naruto and Hinata) fans,

“Self-insertion is a practice by authors of writing themselves into their own stories, either explicitly or in thinly-disguised form; in a fannish context this most often means fan writers writing themselves into their favorite source material so that they can interact with canon or its characters” (X)

Whilst

“Reader-Insert is a type of fanfiction, almost always written in 2nd person Point of View; the protagonist is always the reader, and is usually paired with one of the canon characters. "Reader-insert" typically has a hyphen hyphen, but is also known as Canon X Reader (sometimes CanonXReader).” (X)

In this particular case, many readers had succumbed to something slightly in between. The manga doesn’t belong to them, so the only one in position to literally self-insert is Kishimoto (canonically), so they are left with the option of attaching themselves personally to a pre-existed character with whom they feel somewhat represented. If not, then at least they attach emotionally to a character because it represents what they desire (this can be more observed in the shipping part of the fandom). Meaning, they use a canon established character that is not literally the reader, but who clearly represents them or represents what they want in their significant (romantical) other.

Sakura was the only female lead who had a crush on the cool guy, readers (particular female ones) didn’t need much to feel a connection with her (during the first part, Kishimoto didn’t even give them much to do so, but they still attached to her with the prospect of what she might become), while Naruto was the dead last, it appealed to those who also felt that they weren’t popular or were mistreated by their peers.

But what the self-inserts of Sakura or even Naruto had to do with the increasing love for Itachi?

To explain this in a way that can be understandable: Sakura fans who believed Sasuke disrespected her when not acknowledging her feelings or when downgrading her skills often turned their attention to the man of similar physique and strength to fulfill their fantasies of reciprocation -because canonically, Itachi had neither rejected, nor downgraded her character. In the same fashion, Naruto fans who believe Sasuke is egotistical by not caring for/acknowledging Naruto in the same manner he does (hence, not deserving him), tend to also indulge in the same type of behavior previously mentioned.

Later on, when the narrative introduces the idea that Itachi stands alongside Konoha (Naruto and Sakura), thus, against Sasuke (from an idealistic standpoint), this particular practice deepens, grows. They feel validated on their idea that Itachi will treat their favorite character (them) better, while at the same time punishing Sasuke for rejecting them.

There are not many cases of Itachi self-inserts, I’m not denying their existence however because he did fulfilled a wish many readers had (against Sasuke), but Itachi’s self-insert part of the fandom seems to be more in terms of female character fans that desire their favorite kunoichi to be loved/desired/respected? by a powerful, handsome, mysterious character.

Sasuke’s importance in the narrative (and character growth)

Sasuke escaping Konoha to get to Orochimaru, train, and become strong enough to defeat Itachi and avenge his clan won’t hold up for the four hundred or so chapters Naruto Shippuden lasts. After Itachi’s defeat at his hands, Sasuke had no reason not to return to Konoha, more importantly, he had no reason to fight Naruto as it was the intention and ultimate and most important clash in the manga since the introduction of their rivalry.

Sasuke’s growth as a character (that I spoke more detailed in this post) was tied to the introduction of a deeper, more important problem: Konoha’s involvement in the UCM. It wasn’t new in Naruto to present the dichotomy and harsh truths of the shinobi system (Hyuga clan, Haku, Jinchurikis), and the intervention of Konoha’s government in the massacre of the Uchiha clan provided the narrative with a reason to have both Sasuke and Naruto fighting in different sides of the battlefield, but also presented a deeper problem: Itachi couldn’t be bad.

He couldn’t stand in the “bad” side of the field because both, that would put Naruto (the hero) in the same morally bad position, and Itachi's fandom (which was massive), was eager for redemption, they demanded it, and Naruto is not a manga that doesn’t get influenced by what its purchasers want. In consequence, they needed to justify Itachi’s actions. We can talk about how abysmally bad they did it, we can talk about how much better this problem could have been sorted out, but that is not the core of this post.

Kishimoto loved Sasuke, I have said this before, despite the fandom wishes, he stood his ground when it came to Sasuke and his revolutionary position until the very end. Maintaining that ideal as just, put Naruto (hence, Itachi) in the wrong. But because the narrative needed Naruto to be good and in the right, he ended up justifying genocide by justifying Itachi.

Consequently, and with the appeal he earned with his introduction and the Sasuke-hate (self-inserts), Itachi became a favorite character amongst favorite characters despite being a plot holes with legs. Readers eagerly consumed whatever panel proved that Itachi was not the bad guy he was previously believed to be. (proved or at least didn’t show, Itachi still commited genocide, but we don’t get to see such attrocities so its easier to forget he slaughtered innocent people, children amongst them). Readers who liked him were desperate for the narrative’s validation.

Core of the issue

Which brings me to the core of the post and in retrospection, I have already presented it: moral standpoints. This is not new, I’m not introducing any new idea, and this is hardly something that happens solely in the Naruto’s (and most specifically Itachi’s) fandom. Liking or not a character is tied to so many subjective variables that it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what makes a character desirable or despicable despite solid traits being commonly shared on particular troups. And yet, liking or not a character became a moral standpoint for which people judged each other on a personal level. It has happened since always, but the internet did nothing but make more accessible and public this type of clashes. Therefore, Redemption Arcs became the most precious gem inside fictional works and Naruto fell for it, and fell hard.

It’s almost mandatory to have the narrative’s validation in order to enjoy a character freely and Naruto provided it to Itachi’s fandom. His actions were justified by the manga and the most important (and beloved) characters stood by his side, even those who were victims of him forgave his actions because there was someone (with less appeal and more morally questionable actions under his belt) to blame further. Having the narrative’s moral validation is more important than actually being in the right.

Itachi was manipulated by the Will of Fire who he learned from Hiruzen who was passed to him by Tobirama who created it because he was raised during the Warring States Period, so his apprehension to the Uchiha was justified. It’s a train of justifications that ultimately holds no one responsible for the genocide of an entire clan/race which then becomes something bound to happen. So to save face, they use an escape goat: Danzo and the Curse of Hatred. They put the blame of the massacre to a single character and the actual victims because, well, they were genetically prone to disaster and killing them was the only way to ensure (temporary) peace.

Liking a character doesn’t automatically mean condoning its actions but because that subjective appeal became more and more the reflection of the reader’s ideals (for some reason I’m not here to trace), those two actions merged, which translated consequently into demanding the narrative’s validation of our tastes. There’s no denial of the pleasing sensation that comes with having the plot’s endorsement for liking a complex/morally gray or even dark character, but that approval turned to be the most important/valuable requirement, which, in turn, made readers justificate (supported by the narrative) despicable actions, such as genocide.

Let’s go back to the second bullet point, self- inserts, as to discern more in depth their reasons to look for a justification on Itachi’s character: Itachi (an Uchiha that was not affected by the Curse, as his peers were) who the narrative proclaims wanted his brother’s safety and happiness above all things, stands morally with Konoha (hence, the readers’ favorite character). Therefore, justifying his actions is justifying Sakura and Naruto’s actions against Sasuke (manipulation is alright because Itachi did it, trying to kill Sasuke because he didn’t want to bend to their will is alright because Itachi did it), it gives them reasons to believe that they are on the right side of the battlefield, it gives them moral superiority. They’re in the right, they are good people, Sasuke was too deep in his hatred to either see it or correspond their feelings and that’s why he needs to be saved, and who more appropriate to do so than the two characters that were mocked by him during the first part of the manga? Even in the end, Itachi still gives them the retribution they still feel deserve and that Sasuke -still- didn’t give.

#naruto #naruto meta #anti itachi uchiha #anti itachi #anti sakura #anti sakura haruno #anti sakura fandom #anti naruto uzumaki #anti naruto #anti naruto fandom #anti itachi fandom #sasuke uchiha #sasuke #pro sasuke #anti konoha #anti shinobi system #this will probably be edited

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