#descendants critical

[lexishoney]

sometimes i just sit and think about that how good descendants story could be. how it could be about that not everything is black or white, that there are multiple shades of grey when it comes to morality. but then, i'm getting hit by the fact that descendants is just another classist story

[princess-ibri]

Okay, so since we’re talking about Descendants, I really need to get this off my chest, it’s gonna be a bit long 😅

First of all, I have to say that I LOVE how creative you are with your stories, characters and designs!! Like, you pour so much soul into them and it’s unfortunately something that’s been very lacking lately at Disney! You did the Descendants thing so much better than they could!

There was so much that Disney could have done with the idea of a Fairytale Crossover to make this franchise stand apart from previous works that also went with it! Like, instead of having ALL the Disney characters exist at the exact same time and place, they could have existed on the same fictional continent or in the same fictional world but at different places and times so that all of their stories would have happened as they do in the animated movies. And instead of being their children, the protagonists could have been the grandchildren, great-grandchildren or distant relatives of SOME of them, because I truly don’t think that Maleficent, the Evil Queen, Cruella or Ursula would ever want to have children, but Disney went with that because they needed to sell fashion dolls with as many aesthetics as possible (which is ironic because their outfits are soulless, atrocious and pretty much all look the same compared to the ones in Ever After High)!

Had it been only some of the Disney characters having distant relatives, it would have made more sense and they could have come up with an interesting story to explain why the descendants of specific Disney characters have been brought together at this magical school (which should have been much more grand and Hogwarts-like if you ask me)! Could have been a prophecy? A spell? A curse cast by Yen-Sid? The Evil Queen? Maleficent? Or maybe something that was caused a long time ago by multiple Disney Villains? Have these characters been brought here to undo something? Unleash something?

It reminds me of the Grimrose Girls book series by Laura Pohl, which gets often compared to Descendants but is actually more comparable to Ever After High because of this idea of a fate that the characters can’t escape. It’s set in a boarding school, where the protagonists find out that they, as well as the rest of the students, are doomed to repeat the gruesome endings of various fairytales, like the ones who came before them and have to find a way to break the curse before it reaches them too. Disney could have done something similar (not with the gruesome-endings stuff but rather with the setting and idea of a curse)!

Or they could have done something similar to Kingdom Hearts and have all these Disney characters exist in different universes and time periods but have some of their descendants be brought together to the dimension of Auradon for a specific reason! Doing all of this would have allowed for the Descendants franchise to stand apart from Ever After High, but instead they decided to be lazy and rip it off! They really needed to be more creative! Imagine the interesting world-building, the lore and the unique, whimsical designs and outfits that we could have had instead of… Leather and headphones. Disney fumbled really hard!

Right??? Yeah allll of this ☝️ You came up with like three different cool ideas right off the bat, and yet the giant corporation with swimming pools of money--nothing :p

What a waste

[qiqi-media]

besides you disliking chad all your opinions are A1

I've found that while thinking about how to answer this a lot of my opinions on the AKs may seem negative but I think it's because the Vks were the main characters so they didn't give them any thought to be fleshed out. One word I've thought about multiple characters is shallow and I'm realizing it was just the poor writing because they'll justify, humanize and explain horrible actions the Vks did but made the Aks all completely shallow so that's something to keep in mind.

Chad- I don't actually dislike Chad with a burning passion or anything. He was a handsome teenage boy who knew it and used it to his advantage and I don't see him as a villain within in the whole him and Evie thing, her intentions weren't pure either yet, he takes the brute. Then in D2 and 3 I just kind of felt sorry for him because he was used as comedic relief with no real background anymore.

Doug- Overly hated in my opinion, he was a simple guy, people do way too much about him being quote on quote stalker. I don't care about him and I think he's boring but overall he's the character that made me realize that Aks are held to this unreachable standard while Vks are given grace for everything in the fandom. I've seen people call him abusive because he pretended not to wake up after Evie kissed him it's ridiculous.

Jane- Shallow and insecure. My unpopular opinion about her stands, she got off easy compared to Audrey and would've ditched any of her friends for the winning team. In hindsight that's not the worst thing an insecure teenage girl can do, of course she wants to be popular. My problem was Audrey was villainized and isolated and blamed for actions Jane took part in and Jane pretty much felt no remorse on seeing her old friend fade.

Lonnie- Same thing shallow and wished they didn't make her do certain things. She was happy and supportive seeing Audrey get publicly dumped just because Mal fixed her bob. Then when Uma did the same thing ditched Ben who she knew way longer than Mal in favor of Mal just because he brought another girl after Mal broke up with him. Her D2 plot was stupid, she was way more pissed about a school sport than her friend being kidnapped.

Audrey- My second favorite character out of the whole series, she was treated poorly and deserved better. While saying that I can acknowledge all of her wrong doings and how the plot could've been different had she taken a different path in D3 than trying to destroy Auradon. But she was never a villain, she never bullied the Vks and she did her job like she was supposed to and got her life ruined and was kicked while she was down by her own family. I wish she was the main character and we got to see a good story play out for her after being mistreated so.

Ben- my ultimate favorite Descendants character. I like Ben because he's everything I'm not basically. He annoys me as a figure of authority because his kind nature quickly becomes a weakness and makes him look like he has no backbone but he's Ben so I can forgive him. He had potential to be a good King but ultimately he was not a good King to me looking back. His willingness to forgive others, think of others was commendable and he made his mistakes but ultimately when I see Ben I see a respectable person but not king. He would be a friend to rival all others but if anybody advocated for his King status to be postponed or removed I'd be the first to agree.

[artianaiolanthe]

Descendants trying to draw people back in with China Anne McClain and then making the premise of their next movie "a dark skinned black girl bullied another character so bad that she became evil" is definitely. Something.

[strawberryluckcake]

You're so right. And we also can't forget, the "aro-coded characters are often also heartless, villains, and black" trope🙄

Wait a minute, why is the only aspec-coded character in Descendants the villain who doesn't change. Sure, everyone is queer-coded, but why is Uma the only aspec-coded one.

I absolutely love Uma, especially because she's aro-coded, but I'm so sick of the "all aros are heartless and villains" trope.

[captainsparklefingers]

Until explicitly stated otherwise, I'm gonna choose to believe that Trist's children made it out. Traumatized, hurt, lost, but alive. Purvan did his job, and the dawn didn't fade, and they saved what they could and survived.

And a generation or two later, their descendants will be Dust, Stone, and Clay, returning the favor to another Champion.

[sukibenders]

Me, whenever I see poc, especially dark-skinned, characters in fantasy and/or historical period dramas depicted with dignity and respect and just simply given opportunities to have happy storylines that aren't solely fueled by trauma on the aspects of their race: Someone cooked here.

[writer-room]

Obsessed with Lloyd never mentioning his grandfather is the First Spinjitsu Master, apparently to the point even Arin didn't seem to know, because "eh, it never came up". Cause like, yeah, sure, my grandfather is God, what of it? Normal day for me. Shit happens. My dad is also evil, you wanna talk about that? I sure don't.

It's also funny from a character arc perspective. Here's itty bitty baby first season Lloyd, loudly proclaiming he's the son of Garmadon, and probably also making sure everyone knows he's God part 3 electric boogaloo. And then one Tomorrow's Tea and a few more years later and he's doing everything physically possible to NOT care about his heritage. In fact he'd probably rather his parentage was literally anyone else. Dude could care so less he forgets about it most of the time. King behavior.

[annymation]

Oh for crying out loud Disney 🙄

Making Descendants just to spite Mattel wasn’t enough? Y’all are blatantly copying them now???

Have some shame.

[gloriousmonsters]

seriously just. nothing gets me fuming about the sheer... uninventive cowardice of ToTK's storyline than thinking about how despite their flaws, the OoT/TP/WW trio were all about complicating Ganondorf in an interesting way. OoT was like ok, this guy is fucked up but he's cool, he's a hero to a lot of his people and oh yeah, the band of thieves you've heard of is actually a tribe of people, his people, and if you look you can see how a world like this made a man like him. WW was like and maybe he's more human than you thought. maybe he was a little in love with the land he conquered. maybe if he lived longer, he'd be capable of regret, of some amount of self-reflection, of showing mercy to the enemies he swore to destroy in the past. TP was like and what if stopping him before he conquered Hyrule wasn't the happy ending? what if it made everything worse? what if we've done bad things, and Ganondorf's return is part of our actions coming back to haunt us, his execution wound impossible to ignore, the sword he wields the one meant to kill a monster, one that failed when the gods seemingly signaled they weren't totally on our side? and, both of them agree on, his death isn't a joyful triumph. It's sobering, unnerving, tragic.

then totk's like. well what if he was... an evil guy. just a VERY evil guy. because he's evil. and mean. what if we retold OoT but worse and more simplistic and also the power Ganondorf takes isn't divine so we dodge all those awkward questions about if he's really Basically The Devil or if he has a more complicated part in the whole. and, hear us out, what if he was evil and wanted to bring... DARKNESS. because he's bad

[kerryweaverlesbian]

Cas stitching up his trench coat in one of the motel chairs while Sam and Dean are asleep and quietly talking to Jack about how to him the coat feels as part of himself now as his blade is. That it reminds him that he wasn't always aware of just how deeply humans could feel. How deeply angels could feel. How putting care into something can make it meaningful. The stars were mere pricks of light before humans decided to name them. The more he cares for his coat, the more of his perspective and memory gets sewn into it. The more it becomes his.

"And the pockets," he confides with a deep wink, "Are good for keeping snacks in."

Later, when Dean is asleep again, drooling over an open book of research in the bunker, Jack watches as Cas tucks his coat over Dean's shoulders and sees how he hesitates for a moment before brushing his hand softly through Dean's hair. Dean is transformed, through Cas’s careful attention, from the man who was the gatekeeper of acceptance and goodness to just a man, vulnerable and in need of care.

Jack wonders whether Castiel cares for everyone like they are a precious object. And he wonders what Castiel would transform him into, if he had to be repaired. Jack isn't sure that he likes the idea. He already has a hard time understanding his own morality, how can he also be expected live up to the idea of himself in Castiel's head? The object that Castiel loves? Does he need to be changed in order to become his?

"I could get him my pillow?" Jack suggests, swallowing against the cold mass in his throat when Cas smiles gently at that. He does like it, then, when Jack acts against his own interest.

"That might wake him. We should let him rest."

"He's precious to you."

"He is." Castiel reaches out and puts a hand on Jack's sleeve, expression sincere, "And so are you."

"Right," Jack says, then, "thanks," and holds his smile until Cas wanders back to sit perpendicular to Dean, to watch him until just before he stirred. Castiel and Jack, both, were good at pretending not to feel what they felt.

Watching the angel watch the man, Jack feels like a star. Immense and powerful but also distant, removed. Not special until a real person decides that he is. He is between angel and human. Person and object. Precious and disregarded. He is the blade and the coat, and Jack doesn't know which is worse.

[myheartticks]

I’ve been thinking about about how Evie sort of exhibits the darker side of the team mom personality trope. 

I agree. Evie is treated like garbage by Mal and is still expected to drop everything and be there for the person who traumatized, bullied, assaulted, and attempted to physically torture and curse her. Evie and her story show how easy it is for characters (especially women of color) who are shoved into the “mom friend” category to have unrealistic expectations forced upon them (both in canon and by the fandom), and thus be exploited by an (often racist) narrative to cater to their psuedo “child” (usually the white protagonist).

Everyone thinks she’s a Mrs Weasley. But sometimes she can come off more like a well intentioned mother gothel. 

I KNOW you did not just compare Evie to Mother freaking Gothel- a woman who kidnapped and imprisoned an infant and went on to emotionally manipulate that child to completely control her in order to further her selfish goal of staying young and beautiful forever. On what plane of existence are you living on my guy??? (And, no, adding “can come off more like” and “well-intentioned” does not negate that you just compared an emotionally abused, traumatized teenager who did not choose or ask to be Mal’s emotional support punching bag, to an emotionally manipulative, neglectful, narcissistic full-grown woman who both chose to raise a child and used that child for her own selfish gain. To clarify, Evie is not any of these things, nor has she ever done anything on par with the crimes Mother Gothel has committed.)

And Mal suffers from it most often. 

How??? Where??? When does Mal suffer by Evie’s hand in the series at a point where the real issue was not caused by external factors, or by Mal herself? Evie does the best that she can. She is not a therapist, nor is she actually Mal’s mother, and she cannot possibly solve every single one of Mal’s problems. However, that does not stop her from trying. The fact that Evie does so much and gets no credit from Mal stans simply because she cannot stop Mal from having negative emotions really frustrates me. Even from a story-telling standpoint, the only possible way for Evie to save Mal from any pain whatsoever was if she was more powerful than Mal and/or she was the main protagonist instead of her. And I’m pretty sure that neither you nor other Mal fans would like that too much.

But a lot of the fandom have their bloody shipping goggles on so they think Evie being Mal’s beloved smother is romantic chemistry instead of fully unhealthy. 

YES ^^^^^ THIS!!!!!! I fully agree with everything you just said here. Hit the nail right on the head, my friend.

At least once in each movie she doesn’t really think of what Mal herself wants before she acts.

Oh. My. Goodness. You. Are so right. Evie doesn’t put Mal's needs over everything in her own life, or considers the needs/safety of a group over the emotional needs of an individual (Mal) at least once in every movie. I don't know how I didn't see it before, she's a horrible friend. -_- /sar dude seriously what are you on? (can i get some???) 

Film one. Tried to put make up on her when she’s plotting

Okay, I usually hate it when people say this, but in this case: I don’t think it’s that deep. (with all due respect, sounds like you pulled this one straight out of your ass). The VKs are all obviously on edge, and I think Evie is just trying to calm herself down by doing something that’s familiar to her as well as comfort Mal in a way that isn’t explicitly touchy-feely, seeing as that isn’t really allowed on the Isle. We see that Mal was simply glowering off into space before Evie does this, something that is very characteristic that Mal would do all the time. Maybe Evie could have been a bit more considerate of Mal’s personal space, but it’s not like she knew that Mal was “plotting”. I think she was genuinely trying to help/make the situation better, and that this really doesn’t count as a “failure in friendship” on her part. 

Film two. The entirety of their talk after she pulled her away from Ben after the paps got thrown out

Again, I truly don’t think that Evie had selfish intentions. We know that Mal tried to spell Ben with no reservations, hesitations, etc later in the movie, so I assume that she has done so consistently before. Therefore, I believe that Evie pulling Mal away from Ben was genuine concern for him on her part, as she could see that Mal was stressed and might have been about to cast a spell, likely on Ben. As for what you will agree with me about, Evie knows that Mal is stressed, and she’s stressed too. Evie probably hopes that knocking at least one thing off the list as soon as possible will help both of them.

As for their “talk”: While Mal seems a bit more vulnerable in this scene rather than the one with Carlos, mainly she's just whining to Evie about how she doesn't like being a "princess" (something that she inflicted upon herself, by the way). What Evie basically says is, "You should take responsibility, stop using magic, and appreciate what you have. All you have to do is read, it's not that hard." From Evie's reaction to Mal using the spell book, it’s easy to tell that Mal has used magic before, probably a lot. Many people try to argue that Evie was controlling and dismissive of Mal's problems in this scene, but it's pretty clear that she and Mal have been through this before. They only show us the one time that Evie is tired of listening to Mal's bullshit and trying to be empathetic. With all that said, none of it negates the fact that Evie was still coddling Mal. Their whole conversation was still framed to make Mal the victim and undeserving of the consequences of her actions. Everything Evie says in the scene is phrased so that Mal doesn’t have to take any blame for her actions. Evie says the line, “Haven't you and Ben had enough secrets between you?”, implying that both Mal and Ben have been mutually keeping secrets, when the truth is the only one who ever has been deceitful in their relationship is Mal. (Not to mention that she is continuing to deceive him.) After Evie doesn’t immediately give Mal validation of her victim mindset and assure her that she's completely in the right, she uses Evie’s trauma from the Isle against her. She "asks" Evie about being evil again after Evie confronts her about using magic. Evie experienced so much trauma at the hands of “being evil,” a lot of it inflicted by Mal herself. Using this against Evie to avoid blame is beyond cruel, and I don't care how overwhelmed or upset she was, it wasn’t okay.

Film three. Accidental guilt trip after she got manipulated by the in laws.

Oh no no no no no don’t you EVEN GO THERE. FIRST of all, FIRST of all, Mal was not manipulated by anyone. She made the decision to close the barrier completely on her own and in fact had to corner Ben into agreeing with her. She did that all by choice and with no prompting or even external suggestion from anyone else. SECONDLY, what Evie did was not a “guilt trip”. Evie was genuinely worried for the safety and well-being of CHILDREN on the Isle that Mal was threatening (not that Evie knew that part, since Mal went on to LIE ABOUT IT TO HER FACE). 

I love Evie. She’s my seventh favorite after Mal and before their cousin. 

Not to be rude, but it doesn’t actually sound like you like her all that much.

But the fact remains. She isn’t as in tune with other people’s feelings as many would like to believe. It’s not a bad thing. It’s a very realistic flaw given who her mother is. 

I agree. However, I think that she is held to unrealistic expectations, despite many aspects of her character that would make it even more impossible for her to meet those expectations. So, yes, this is a realistic “flaw” for Evie to have, but I think that even in this context, that “flaw” is being blown out of proportion simply because it does some minor disservice to Mal.

However, treating her like the ultimate example of a care bear isn’t really doing her justice. 

^^^ Yes, absolutely.

Because like I keep pointing out. If you don’t acknowledge the flaws of the characters you like then you’re not liking every aspect of them.

You make some good points about how harmful it is to reduce Evie to nothing but the “mom friend.” It's demeaning to her very complex character and forces her (a character of color) to be nothing but an accessory and a “make-friend-happy machine” to the main white protagonist. However: you seem to think that the reason Evie shouldn’t be reduced to “mom friend” is because she's bad at it. And that she’s bad at it specifically with Mal. First of all: she’s a teenager. She shouldn’t have to be good at parenting anyone, especially not her friends who are her age and (should be at her) general level of maturity. Second: what has she done wrong? Especially in her relationship with Mal? She’s always there for Mal no matter how much trauma/distress that it causes for her during the entire series. Even just being around Mal probably stirs up trauma for Evie, who was exiled for ten years because of, and then ruthlessly tormented, harassed, and even physically assaulted by Mal. The fact that she is still Mal’s friend is most likely due to fear on Evie’s part (fear of Mal hurting her again, fear of losing other friends by cutting off Mal, etc). Although that’s obviously not healthy for either of them, it’s disproportionately worse for Evie, who is basically trapped in endless uncomfortable situations where she is forced to interact with, constantly cater to the emotions of, and coddle her abuser. Basically, Mal has never made amends or even bothered to stop emotionally abusing/using Evie, at least not in any substantial way. The reason that Evie is sometimes subpar at her very, very demanding role in this toxic, abusive relationship that she was forced into is not her fault in any way shape or form, nor is it due to any character or personality “flaw” of hers. Evie is not comfortable around Mal, and probably never will be. Mal does not treat Evie as an equal or a friend, she treats her like a mother or a servant. They have never had a healthy relationship, and they probably never will, and that is not due to any mistakes or shortcomings on Evie’s part. It is due to the fact that Mal was a bully to Evie only to eventually force her into a toxic friendship from which she benefits and Evie suffers.

Unpopular Evie opinion

I’ve been thinking about about how Evie sort of exhibits the darker side of the team mom personality trope. Everyone thinks she’s a Mrs Weasley. But sometimes she can come off more like a well intentioned mother gothel. And Mal suffers from it most often. But a lot of the fandom have their bloody shipping goggles on so they think Evie being Mal’s beloved smother is romantic chemistry instead of fully unhealthy. At least once in each movie she doesn’t really think of what Mal herself wants before she acts.

Film one. Tried to put make up on her when she’s plotting

Film two. The entirety of their talk after she pulled her away from Ben after the paps got thrown out

Film three. Accidental guilt trip after she got manipulated by the in laws.

I love Evie. She’s my seventh favourite after Mal and before their cousin. But the fact remains. She isn’t as in tune with other people’s feelings as many would like to believe. It’s not a bad thing. It’s a very realistic flaw given who her mother is. However. Treating her like the ultimate example of a care bear isn’t really doing her justice. Because like I keep pointing out. If you don’t acknowledge the flaws of the characters you like then you’re not liking every aspect of them.

[qiqi-media]

I was rewatching D2 and saw that Evie had said none of the C4 was too popular on the Isle and it just leads to more confusion on how they even ended up becoming the saviors of the Isle in D3. I would've loved to see how the OG Isle that hated them for turning their backs on evil would've reacted to them being okay at the end of D3 (right before the engagement party) with Mal closing the barrier forever and really only seemed mad because she had lied to them about it.

[danwhobrowses]

Well Critters it's Bells Hells Live Show Day! That snuck up on us quickly didn't it? Felt almost like a few weeks ago that they announced it!

Alas, being across the pond (also tomorrow's Father's Day in the UK) I will have to wait for the VOD, sitting here with my usual Thursday night doses of anticipation, imagination and anxiety, but I hope all that are attending have a great night. So much can happen, so much stuff I want to happen too but ofc some things are long shots - anyone who looks at my feed can tell what I want to happen let's be honest, and there'll be dress up and whatever beyond extra entrance Sam has planned to make his anticipated and grandiose return.

So sing the intro loud, tag your live spoilers just in case, do creepy whispers if Laudna performs a Sending, tell them to stop it if they sneeze, and most of all enjoy the show!

[caliburn-the-sword]

The School for Good and Evil (Somain Chainani) to Ever After High to Descendants to The Land of Stories (Chris Colfer) to Once Upon a Time pipeline is REAL and needs to be talked about more

[hippityhoppityyourenowmyproperty]

Wow, so cool how Vivziepop's "female lead" show ended with another man swooping in to save the day because his daughter was too weak to pull it off herself.