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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 10 days ago

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quick question- I was a bit confused in some dialogue during book 1 lol 😭😭 It’s during the later chapters when riddle has collared both ace and deuce after they’ve challenged him for his seat. More specifically, the part where yuu calls riddle out for his behavior (rightfully so) and he responds by insulting them and their parents I believe?

The confusion stems from aceyuu shippers (just wanted to clarify I’m not self shipping lmao) where they say ace ends up punching riddle because he’s explicitly defending yuu’s honor or whatever but i also see other people (non-shippers) who say ace punched riddle because he insulted ace and/or deuce’s parents? Im not quite sure which one it is and went back in the actual game to check but i feel like the wording of riddle’s insults is a bit vague? Idk, maybe im just being a bit of a dum dum and can’t properly comprehend the scene even though it’s quite simple. I feel like it’s also just because i see a lot of people saying different stuff and just wanted to hear your thoughts on it if that’s okay?

I just feel like you really understand both the story and characters in that regard haha

P.S. your posts r genuinely very informative and helpful especially for people like me who kinda have no media literacy (not in a negative way!!) pls keep up the good work you’re rlly great at it <333

Hmmm, I see 🤔

Before I get to responding to this question, I want to preface this with a few disclaimers! Firstly, I do not mean to invalidate or detract from Ace x Yuu shippers or anyone who may interpret their relationship as romantic. You should ship what you like and have fun doing it. My reply aims to be more objective, but that should NOT impede on your enjoyment or whatever it is you choose to ship. Secondly, for those who don’t ship Ace x Yuu, I will be discussing the pairing later on in this post, so please keep this in mind.

Let's first look at how the game and how it depicts the scene. This occurs in 1-22, shortly after Riddle collars Ace and Deuce in their duel for the dorm leader seat. With his victory secured, Riddle begins to gloat about how this is proof that he is "the most correct". At this point, Yuu/the player character is granted two dialogue options:

If you choose "But that's not right!", Riddle replies with, "I am the one who decides what is wrong and right! What sort of pitiful education have you received, that you cannot follow such simple rules?"

If you choose "You can't just use rules to do whatever you please!", then Riddle replies with, "If there were no penalties, no one would follow the rules. I have to wonder what sort of pitiful education left you unable to comprehend so simple a concept."

However, no matter which dialogue option you choose, Riddle continues on to say, "Clearly, you were born to parents with no great magical capability. And as a result... You lack even the basic education necessary to attend a school such as this. It's quite sad."

Deuce becomes upset after hearing this--but before he is able to act, Ace is already on his feet and manages to deck his dorm leader in the face.

Based on the fact that Riddle seems to react to something that Yuu says, the framing here implies that the "you" Riddle is using refers to them specifically. As you can see above, both Ace and Deuce take offense to what Riddle says, but it is Ace that acts preemptively and attacks Riddle for his rudeness. This is what Ace x Yuu shippers will point to as a defining moment in their relationship (though, to be clear, this scene can definitely also be interpreted as platonic!!).

… Buuut it’s not completely clear that Riddle is explicitly directing any and all insults towards Yuu and Yuu alone, even if Yuu was the one to prompt his tirade. Due to the visual novel style format of the game, we have limited assets to base our interpretations off of, so going by the game alone may not be entirely accurate to what is happening in this scene. For example, we don't know how the characters are oriented relative to one another. It's possible that Riddle responds to Yuu's dialogue and then turns away to berate Yuu, Ace, and Deuce for their stupidity, since all three of them are, in his eyes, rule-breakers. We simply cannot tell due to the constraints of a visual novel. Let’s consult the manga adaptation and see how that presents 1-22.

In the Episode of Heartslabyul, the framing of the panels centers Riddle and Adeuce; Yuuken is not involved whatsoever. (On a prior page, all Yuuken remarks on is how fast Riddle is able to cast his spell; Yuuken has no lines similar to game!Yuu’s earlierdialogue options.) Riddle stands imposing over his opponents and rants at Ace and Deuce about their lack of an education. You can see that it really strikes a nerve with Deuce (whom we learned used to be a delinquent prior to NRC). This still results in Yuu punching Riddle.

The manga seems to imply that Riddle is not insulting Yuu, but rather Adeuce. This makes sense to me, given that though all of them are rebels to Heartslabyul’s strict rules, Adeuce are the two who most directly challenge his authority.

You can see in a close-up panel that Deuce is gritting his teeth and trying to hold himself back from going at Riddle. The text in that panel involves the mention of parents who cannot use magic—which just so happens to be true of Deuce’s mother. The same mother that he worked so hard to make proud of, the mother he turned over a new leaf for. But again, it’s Ace that gets the hit in. Why is that?

Let’s check out our final source, the first volume of the light novel. On pages 319 and 320:

Riddle very clearly states “And as for you two.” This clearly refers to the fallen Ace and Deuce. He then unleashes his barrage of insults at them. Again, not at Yuu, but at Ace and Deuce. The text even goes on to remind us that Deuce would be especially rattled by Riddle’s words because of how he had come to NRC for the sake of his mom. In this version, we see our Yuu (Yuuya) being more involved by trying to keep Deuce from lashing out. Like in the game, however, Ace still gets in that punch on his dorm leader.

Okay, so… The game, manga, and light novels are different iterations of the same base story. Based on which you consume, you could walk away with an entirely different understanding of the scene in question. The game, being the most interactive medium with a self-insert main character, a gacha game which makes $$$ from endearing the characters to us, has the set-up which is most conducive for yumeshipping and thus making the player feel beloved and important in 1-22. This is obvious if you also consider that many fanservicey lines from other parts of the game (such as Ace wanting to sleep in Yuu’s room) being left out of the manga. It's also entirely possible that Riddle first reacts to what Yuu says, and THEN shifts his attention to address the group rather than just Yuu. The manga, with a more standoffish and level-headed Yuu, doesn’t speak up like game!Yuu does, so Riddle instead directly insults Ace and Deuce. The light novel, which features a timid and non-confrontational Yuu, is focused on deescalating the situation. And, like the manga, the light novel is NOT interactive and so it doesn’t need to concern itself with making the player feel special. Riddle isn’t mandated to acknowledge Yuu; he can instead be mad at Ace and Deuce all he likes.

If we were to combine information from across the game, manga, and light novel to decipher what is “truly” happening, here’s how I see it!

The light novel contains a scene exclusive to it on pages 176 and 177. As Ace is making himself comfortable at Ramshackle, he formally apologizes to Yuuya for being mean to him in the prologue. Ace explains that his meanness was because he thought that Yuuya had bullied his way to be admitted to NRC under special circumstances. “[…] the rest of us had to work our butts off to get in, and you just sorta walked in.” He proclaims that this was unfair, so it annoyed him.

This makes a lot of sense for Ace’s character. In book 7 of the main story, he expresses that he is insecure about being an ordinary mage and that he hadn’t even developed his UM yet. (Coincidentally, he has a Chat where he praises the Queen of Hearts for having no special magic but still being able to make it big—perhaps because her circumstances remind Ace of himself?) He calls himself lame and pathetic, someone who is always looking for an excuse to take the easy way out. This is in spite of the bravado he puts on and how he often brags about being better or smarter than Deuce (most notably in book 5). If we believe the light novel dialogue, Ace worked hard to get invited to NRC. He has pride in earning this, and he has something to prove while he is there. Recall that his older brother is an alumnus of the school, and that his own father is a magicless human. Ace canonically has a good relationship with both of these family members and often bonds with them through little things like card trick competitions. When Riddle insults Ace's background... he is also insulting Ace's brother and father. He is also insulting all the effort Ace put forth to get into NRC in the first place. Ace would of course lose it--especially when he has been the primary victim of Riddle's rage for most of book 1. He's the first to be collared, the one who had to apologize and attempted to make an apology tart (which got rejected). Bro's fed UP having to bend the knee to a tyrant and sick of watching everyone else do the same. The punch that comes out of it seems to me like the result of all Ace's pent-up frustrations, as well as his own fury at Riddle speaking ill of him and his family.

While Ace is unquestionably willing to ride or die for Yuu in books 4 (he takes a long public transit route from the Queendom to Sage's Island after receiving a SOS text from them) and 6 (he tries to protect his friends from Ferrymen)... I think book 1's a bit too early for him to be SO loyal to Yuu that he'd get this angry on their behalf and sock Riddle. (Book 1 takes place during the first week of school; Ace seems to have only known Yuu for a few days at this point + hasn't really hung out with them besides sleeping over at Ramshackle since he's not allowed back at Heartslabyul.) His punch definitely feels fueled by a bunch of other things rather than being extremely motivated to defend Yuu's honor. I think maybe a case could be made for the game specifically, since that's the only version where Yuu is potentially addressed rather than Ace and Deuce being addressed. However, this does take some extrapolation. You'd have to assume that Ace is actually very attached to Yuu this early on or pair it with the idea that Ace is sensitive about magicless humans in general being discriminated against because of his own father being magicless (ie Ace was insulted by proxy, even if Riddle might have aimed the comments at Yuu). Not sure if the latter argument holds up very well though, considering that Ace himself did discriminate against Yuu in the prologue because they lacked magic. Likewise, he doesn't get mad for Fellow and Gidel in Playful Land when they share about being looked down on for not being magically inclined. But hey, maybe that was just Ace being in denial and acting contrary in order to cope with his own complicated feelings on the topic. He’s been known to behave like this anyway, acting cocky despite having no UM and denying that Yuu would go home (even though we later find out he deeply does not wish for this to happen).

I definitely think that many of the game-exclusive lines and content are there as fanservice for the players, who are encouraged to project or to self-insert as Yuu. Ace in particular is one of the characters who gets a ton of this kind of yumejoshi bait-y stuff. Everyone has it to some extent, but Ace is one of the rare few who has several pretty overt instances in the main story (whereas most other characters have their fanservice content relegated to voice lines and maybe some events). On top of this scene (which could potentially read as "Ace defending Yuu's honor"), we have: multiple instances of Ace offering to share a room/bed with Yuu (once in book 1, again in book 3), he has shared his number with Yuu and invites them to call him if they "miss him", Ace's entire book 7 dream revolving around a reality in which Yuu is able to freely traverse between Twisted Wonderland and their original world (furthermore, he is the ONLY dreamer we have seen in which Yuu is involved in the dream), etc. Ace is also known to frequently tease Yuu, and, on top of having several voice lines inviting them to hang out, is actually shown hanging out with them and caring about them in various vignettes and events. For example, he has movie nights with Yuu (Idia's Labwear vignettes), asks for their opinion on whether or not he looks the part to woo the Ghost Bride, rides roller coasters with them in Playful Land while previously complaining that his ex-girlfriend wouldn’t, and worries for where Yuu might be (Endless Halloween Night). With this abundance of Ace and Yuu content, I can see why people that have the shipping goggles on--and even those who don't--might interpret early scenes as Ace acting out for Yuu's sake, be it romantically or platonically. More objectively speaking and when considering the manga + light novel though, I don't think I personally read 1-22 that way. I enjoy Ace as a character and I support Ace x Yuu shippers, but the evidence and context suggests that he's venting other frustrations to me.

Again though, this is just my interpretation. Feel free to use this information however you’d like and come to your own conclusion.

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yuri-is-online · 11 months ago

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A while ago you said in a post that Ace’s isolation seems to come from how he values Yuu and Deuce’s friendship more and I think you perfectly worded how I feel. I would like to hear more about it if you have more to say!

Like yeah he’s a very friendly and outgoing guy. He can easily make friends/acquaintances but there’s also a clear line between those friends and where Deuce Yuu and Grim stands.

He gets along really well with his seniors as seen by his relationships with the basketball club, Playful Land and hell I bet this new event will prove that too. But it gives me more of a vibe of a younger kid endearingly annoying his older classmates than friendship.

Among the first years, he doesn’t seem to be as close to them as Deuce is. Like Deuce and Epel have this whole bond going on because of Chapter 5, Deuce and Jack are in the same club etc. Ace is kind to his fellow first years and helps them out like in Fairy Gala If with Ortho but again there’s this divide. Everyone knows it’s Ace, Deuce, Yuu and Grim as the group.

Multiple people have mentioned how those 4 are constantly together and how it’s rare to see one without the other and I think that’s really important when you take into consideration on how Ace literally ditched his last girlfriend because they were too different in terms of taste (well there’s more to unpack with that but that’s not what I’m here to talk about). Quality time is hugely important with Ace in my opinion, he wouldn’t hang out with people he hates and seeing the amount of time he spends time with those three and how the game makes an active effort to make us pay attention to it tells us that yeah Ace definitely values his friendship with Deuce, Yuu and Grim more than the others and why Ace feels so separated from the other first years at times.

He also tends to keep people at arms length because of his inability to really express affection towards his friends so it just comes across as him being snarky and mean when that’s really not the case. This also does show with Deuce Yuu and Grim yet goes to help them whenever he gets the chance, buys gifts for them, spends time with them etc. Like bro his actions tell otherwise it’s so funny he’s like a tsundere.

I think his exterior kind of makes it hard to people to really get close to him and I think he purposely does that, so to see him have obvious bias towards a group of people is really important.

Gotta admire his loyalty, once you’ve proven yourself he’s sticking with you for the rest of his life. Sorry for rambling but uh yeah your response gave me thoughts.

I would like to thank the aceyuu community for their continued dedication to putting deeply insightful character analysis in my inbox. I love you all so very much. I also love your icon very much, Gen 5 best pokemon (˵ •̀ ᴗ - ˵ ) ✧

it gives me more of a vibe of a younger kid endearingly annoying his older classmates than friendship.

Yes very much this. Ace is the baby of his family, and there seems to be a decent age gap between him and his brother. He repeatedly talks about wanting to be like his seniors, and Jamil mentions at least once he is generally respectful towards them. His level up lines imply he wants to try challenging Riddle again, but it seems less because he disrespects him and wants to be dorm leader and more because he wants to prove he's gotten stronger.

Friend groups

So I have been thinking since the first and second time we talked about this trying to pick out who exactly Ace's friend group even is outside of Yuu and Deuce and ??? Deuce knew who Epel was before you properly met and he and Jack do seem to get along pretty well but Ace? I feel like maybe the intention might be to have him be closer to Ortho and Sebek, which sort of makes sense. They're all the youngest in their families and look up to their seniors to varying degrees but still. Ace specifically, like you said, is literally always around either Yuu or Deuce. In Idia's lab wear vignette Ace literally stays over alone with Yuu to watch horror movies and sends Grim to get the drinks alone 💀 like sir? Hello? And he implies he's done this more than once??? I like the idea of quality time being important to Ace, he says the most important thing for him in a partner is someone you have fun with and like being around so yeah. That makes sense for him.

I think back on how Ace initially interacted with Yuu and Deuce and, while at first I was a bit hesitant to say Ace keeps people at arms length, but you can literally see him doing that in the prologue. He's a brat towards people his own age, and while I imagine he has always been super popular to a degree I don't know if I can see him ever having had as deep of a friendship with anyone as he has Yuu and Deuce. I'm not sure if I would say he does it on purpose 100% of the time, but his Suitor Suit vignette does seem to imply he does it when he feels particularly embarrassed by something. He isn't just like a tsundere, he is one and honestly I was not expecting to like him as much as I do because tsundere isn't really one of my favorite tropes.

Gotta admire his loyalty, once you’ve proven yourself he’s sticking with you for the rest of his life. Sorry for rambling but uh yeah your response gave me thoughts.

Never apologize for rambling, it is the last thing I will ever take issue with and that goes for anyone in my inbox.

I hard agree. Ace's loyalty to Deuce, Yuu, and Grim should scare anyone trying to mess with them. I am waiting with baited breath for Grim overblot he is just going to pop off I JUST KNOW IT PLEASE YANA PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE

#<3 asks #twisted wonderland #aceyuu #ace trappola #i was deeply surprised to see you in my askbox after watching you go sicko modes in my notes #it made me very happy i am so glad i was able to give you some thoughts #i shall have to think of some happy aceyuu content to reward us all

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