#im sure there are so so so many fandoms that have it worse

[ot3]

imo the place where fanfiction shines the most is for finding takes on characters that differ from your own but are still compelling and have merit. cut away anything else about fanfiction that's good and this is is the real core of the appeal. but the problem with ace attorney fanfiction specifically is that during my many years of being a person who reads fanfiction i have never come across a body of fanwork that is quite as self-cannibalizing and stale. and i think there's a good few reasons for that but at the end of the day they they don't really matter

[audioroleplayconfessions]

i dont want to reveal my identity (youll see why in a sec lol) so im saying this here rather than my main account cause im relatively well known in redacted tumblr (annnd im a pussy and this is sort of weighing on me a bit).

i dont know how to say it but there are these chats?? like mainly on discord and instagram and i think some other places too (idk i dont have twitter or x or whatever but i think theres one there too) where people have lists of these accounts they dont like and resolve to 'punish them'. im sure im explaining this terribly but i cant really say much without the people in these chats instantly knowing who i am and adding me to their insane hate pile puritan police bullshit.

i got added to one of the discord chats in august by a mutual from a redacted server i was in (not the main one like some fan one from tumblr) and genuinely? it is fucking insane. think genuine csi shit. like sorting people into who supports 'problematic ships' and 'supports problematic characters' or who are 'rape apologists' or even just 'icky' and genuinely allocating certain people to harass and threaten them. and i mean seriously organising. as in scheduling when to spam anons or making hate posts or trying to work out their real identities to 'drill the lesson in' (actual quote).

whats worse is that many bigger accounts in the fandom are in these chats. like people ive been friendly with for months (if not years) who i thought were cool, but then act completely different there. i wont name drop or anything, mainly to respect the rules of this blog and preserve my own identity (cause god knows they dont deserve that after some of the shit theyve said and done), but if youre in redacted tumblr, you defintely know at least some of them. 100% you do.

ive gone out of my way to warn some of these accounts ive seen on there frequently (so if you got an anon warning you about these chats hello!! its me!!) but i cannot understate how fucking crazy they are. not only do these supposed 'progressive accepting people' resort to misogyny, transphobia, homophobia and racism (esp this one, jesus the slurs) towards any account they dont like, they also genuinely view themselves as these insane moral authorities set on 'cleansing the fandom of the filth' (another actual quote from one of the discord chats. i genuinely had to take a lap after reading it bc it was so cringe and insane it physically hurt)

i swear im telling the truth with this btw, i know it sounds so stupid and unbelievable but i just needed to get it out of my system because ive been lurking in this chat and i feel kinda responsible for all the hate these poor people are getting, since im not standing up against them. so to anyone whos received heavy hate for 'problematic opinions' im really fucking sorry man. i shoulda tried to put a stop to it but there were so many big accounts there i was afraid of getting ostracised from the community or targeted myself.

anyway, point is. be careful. watch ur faves. and god, everyone in this moral brigade stop being so fucking demented. youre making this unfun for everyone.

(thank you for giving a space for me to speak about this btw bc i genuinely dont know how i wouldve told people widescale otherwise. i really appreciate the space you provide for us all <33 )

.

[coolestzed]

Alright, I’ve been holding this inside for years but I’m finally gonna say it.

Misako haters are actually fucking annoying at this point.

They always were to me, but now, they’re just OBJECTIVELY an annoyance. And they need to STOP.

They take literally ANY chance to slander her, even when it’s completely unwarranted. Like, I’d just look at a picture of her on Pinterest, and there’d be multiple comments going "the world’s worst mother". Or I’d see content about Koko and there’d always be comments comparing her and Misako and going like "Koko way better fuck Misako".

I’d even see a fucking meme and people would slander Misako. Like they couldn’t resist.

And that’s not even mentioning his people constantly make her seem way worse than she actually is. Im not gonna quote everything, but basically they act like she never does good things for Lloyd. That she doesn’t care about him at all! And it’s just- so WILDY out of character!! And it’s the same vice versa! I saw a funny Ninjago video the other day with a "your mom" joke and someone in the comments was like "jokes on you, Lloyd would never call Misako mom". I’m just?????? Yes he DOES????? ALL THE TIME???

People just act like their relationship is nonexistent! Like they don’t care about each other, or that Misako doesn’t care about Lloyd! Which is OBVIOUSLY not true!

People claim that she disappears every other season but the only seasons she was absent in are 12 and 13. Also, she has a job. She goes on expeditions. Obviously she’s not there 100% of the time. And she and Lloyd clearly spend time together off screen.

People don’t even acknowledge the reason why she left in the first place. They act like she dropped him off at a boarding school and dipped to take a vaycay. She was literally trying to stop her husband and son from having to fight to the death. You ever think about that? You ever think about how SHE felt in the situation? With her husband being consumed by evil and later being banished, and learning that he and their son would have to fight each other? She was HORRIFIED and GRIEVING! Ultimately she did it to save her family. It doesn’t make leaving Lloyd right but it’s understandable.

But apparently not to almost all of the fandom.

Most of y’all, completely ignore that, and everything else that came after season 2.

Misako constantly being worried about Lloyd in Tournament of Elements and Possession.

Both of them spending Day of the Departed together.

Her getting/building the Destiny’s Shadow as a birthday gift for Lloyd.

How she supported, fought beside, and risked her life for Lloyd in Hunted.

How she wanted to stay and fight with him during MoTO but only went inside because Lloyd urged her to protect the civilians.

Not to mention just their general interactions. THEY’RE ALWAYS HAPPY TO SEE EACH OTHER!!! Do you know how many times they hug?!

And this dialogue here:

"Aren’t you going to kiss your mother goodbye?"

"Mooom, we've-we've talked about this-"

WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED?!

Lloyd and Misako have a good, healthy and loving relationship. Misako has long since made up for her mistake and they’ve moved on.

Yet THE FANDOM REFUSES TO!!!

EVERYONE, TO THIS DAY, STILL TREATS HER LIKE THE FUCKING DEVIL!!!

I CAN’T EVEN COUNT THE NUMBER OF TIMES PEOPLE HAVE HAD OVERDRAMATIC TANTRUMS FROM HER JUST EXISTING.

IT MAKES ME SO UNREASONABLY ANGRY.

AND THE FACT THAT I’VE SOMEHOW BEEN SEEING EVEN MORE MISAKO HATE DURING AND AFTER MOTHERS DAY IS ACTUALLY APPALLING.

NOT EVEN FUCKING ENDEAVOR FROM MHA GETS THIS MUCH HATE AND HE’S DONE MUCH WORSE TO HIS FAMILY.

IT. HAS. BEEN. OVER. 16. SEASONS. AND. A. MOVIE.

GET. OVER. IT.

*deep breath*

Look, she’s not perfect. Obviously. She fucked up. But who in this series hasn’t? She came back, and she’s made sure to be a better mother to Lloyd. He forgave her, and they have a good relationship now. They’re close.

She wouldn’t be as hated if the writers didn’t do her dirty. Her introduction wasn’t handled the best, and having her and Lloyd have a more in depth discussion would’ve made the reunion and forgiveness feel less rushed and forced. That love triangle with Wu and Garmadon certainly didn’t do her any favors either. 😑

Regardless, her character’s gotten better over the seasons. Again, she and Lloyd and close and have a good relationship.

But hardly anyone acknowledges that, almost everyone in the fandom hyper fixates on that one mistake from years ago. They don’t pay attention to anything else. Like how she’s a better mother, or how she’s just a generally good person.

You aren’t supposed to judge characters or irl people solely on their past mistakes. Especially when they’ve already made up for them. Thats why the "Misako’s a horrible mother" statement is always bullshit to me.

Seriously, Misako’s been a part of Lloyd’s life longer than she’s been absent from it at this point.

The amount of passionate, unforgiving hate she gets is so undeserved and over the top. Too many people are projecting their own issues onto her. Or just being plain hateful. It’s not fair to define her entire character on a single mistake that she’s long made up for.

And it’s definitely not fair to people that actually like Misako. Often times on the few positive posts about her, there’d be Misako haters in the notes or reblogs complaining about her or insulting her, or just stating they hate her but love the content. And that is completely uncool and rude. It’s so unnecessary. You don’t do that, that’s so shitty. The again Misako haters have a habit of spouting unnecessary hate. Like it’s a terminal condition they have.

So, please, for the love of god, COOL IT. Stop and think, try to ACTUALLY look at her character without the veil of blind hatred.

If you still dislike or hate her, fine! But if you’re gonna detest her, at least hate her as she is and don’t make her worse than she actually is to justify hating her more.

And PLEASE stop bashing her at every turn, it’s annoying, upsetting, unwarranted, unnecessary, and just not good.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[reyesranch]

I feel like atp even if there were plans to make bvddie canon theyre gone now. if tim minear is even half as petty as I am he would see that reaction and go u know what fuck you u actually don't get what you want now cause ur acting so goddamn entitled. like when tarlos fans got mad about the deleted scenes instead of appreciating them being released and his reaction was to say "okay fine then I just won't release deleted scenes anymore" (like I'm sure it was mostly a marketing decision but part of me thinks they intentionally released a scene about bucktommy just to prove a point.) idk man it's just really upsetting as a bi man to see the absolutely vile shit bvddie stans are saying and even tho I love the ship I now never want it to go canon cause they've fuckin ruined it

hey anon, at first let me agree with the fact that i do in fact also love bvddie a lot and i still love reading fics for them, the edits of them are fantastic and the fanart is S tier. it’s a great pairing with a lot of potential there IF the writers decided to ever go there but…

huge answer below

yeah, i agree. i honestly think before tommy was introduced again in 7x03 and the kiss in 7x04 that in my brain, bvddie was the most logical endgame for buck until it wasn’t.

i came into the show shipping bvddie much like a lot of new fans to the show but instead of hopping onto the tommy anti express hate train i found myself falling in love with buck and tommy together. at first i was still on board with bvddie still being endgame but as each episode aired after 7x04 i became faced with the reality of the situation (at least the way i see it) that bvddie might always be fanon and that’s ok because fandom keeps ships alive whether they’re canon or not. some of the biggest ships EVER are non-canon (i mean, cmon spirk? one of the OG MM ships?) so it didn’t really deter me from enjoying bvddie to this day. what HAS deterred me from interacting with bvddie content is toxic bvddies. i don’t like using the lil nicknames, idc if other ppl do, whatever, but i prefer just referring to certain kinds as just toxic plain and simple.

toxic shippers have made it difficult for anyone who multiships to interact with bvddie content. while there are incredibly nice & welcoming bvddie endgamers out there, it doesn’t overshadow the hateful ones in my online experience at least. i’ve blocked so many ppl over this ship discourse, which ive never had to do with any other fandom before the extent i have with 911. everyday i still find new ppl to block, you go under almost any comment section on the 911 insta and its filled with nasty comments abt tommy and only caring abt whether bvddie will be canon in s8. people projecting their hatred of tommy/lou onto the cast/crew of the show when it’s be said and proven time and time again that it’s quite the opposite. now im certain there’s bad apples in the bucktommy side as well, but from what ive seen online so far it is not nearly to the caliber of the bvddie side. ive blocked maybe a handful of bucktommy’s for being hateful towards eddie or being toxic overall, but ive probably blocked over 100+ toxic bvddies. i can only imagine it’d be worse if i was active on 911 twt which i’m not (thank god) but i have ventured into the tags before on there and let me tell you, it’s fucking horrifying how gross ppl are over there. twt is a cesspool for fandom anyways tho, the fucking asshole of fandom, it’s a septic tank really.

now im my own opinion which could be completely untrue of course, but just basing my thoughts on what i’ve seen online and interviews and such, tim seems to be really happy about bucktommy and idk how ppl believe otherwise. tim has expressed he loves LFJ and wanted him back on the show. tim showed up on set for the kiss scene. tim posting an entire youtube vibe abt bucktommy being soulmates that touches on the invisible string theory and explains how they accidentally found buck’s perfect match. tim sharing the deleted tommy scene is also huge but im waiting to see if he releases more (because i remember seen somewhere that he said there’d be more?) and if he does then great but it’s also still pretty telling to me after the whole karaoke fiasco.

oliver has said nothing but praises towards buck’s queer storyline. he quite literally said if you dont like it then watch something else. despite ppl saying he’s never interacted with bucktommy content online, that’s a lie because he has liked fanart of them.

aisha, kenneth & tracie have all expressed how they like tommy/lou and love working with him.

jlh said she loved bvddie before but is excited to see where buck and tommy go and then on an insta live said she doesn’t think bvddie is happening and was bombarded by toxic fans to the point of ending the live early.

ppl think it’s all some ruse to make it seem like bvddie is never happening so when it does happen it’s a “surprise” ……..

the nasty hate comments are doing nothing but exposing these types of ppl for who they are and that honestly to them, 911 is just the bvddie show to them. the people who run these social media accs for 911 are looking at these comments and cringing, they aren’t running to tim and abc being like “we must give these crazies what they want!” they’re mostly likely being ignored or honestly, as you said, being looked at and just reinforcing their decision to most likely make tommy buck’s endgame so as long as his schedule is open for filming.

what gets me the most about the hate these types of shippers spew online is how they aren’t embarrassed because they are so sooo convinced they will be right one day and therefore their insane, nasty behavior online will be justified. oliver stark literally left twt because of fans like this, people act like he was joking around, that he was shooting the shit probably because “he’s british and british people just have that kind of humor” which yes to a certain extent but let me just add these posts to set an example to why if oliver were still on twt he absolutely would not be happy with the way toxic bvddies are acting right now.

oliver (and ryan&other cast too) being positive abt bvddie never meant it was going to be canon of become canon one day. they do not decide these things, whether they believe it should or not. a lot of bvddie shippers come from previous fandoms where queerbaiting was there, where they were made fun of by actors of their ships, by the creators of the show! so i understand the frustration but oliver is not queerbaiting and buck is not a queerbait character when he quite literally is now confirmed bisexual and in a relationship with a man.

he’s just not the “correct” queer to these people. despite headcanons (hell even i hc eddie as queer!!) eddie so far, in canon, is not queer. by the end s7 he is still shown to not be over shannon and ruins his relationship with his son over this. ryan has stated in interviews he sees eddie as heterosexual, possibly pushing this because of the influx of ship discourse, and he’s glad to see a vulnerable and deep friendship that buck and eddie can have as a straight man and a queer man and how important he thinks it is.

every single thing that points to bvddie never going canon is like they’re being shot point blank in the chest. i get it, your ship not becoming canon sucks, but again, that is what fandom is for! shipping has never been about how canon smth is, there is 20k fics out there for bvddie and they aren’t canon. they can turn that into 40k, 100k, 1M if they really wanted to! instead they use their time and energy posting death threats, wishing death upon a gay character, bullying ppl online for enjoying a ship.

meanwhile from what ive seen bucktommys are rolling with goofy ass spy tommy theories created by antis and making jokes for our own fun.

so yes, i agree overall. they truly don’t deserve what they think they do. we didn’t whine and scream for a deleted scene. they did. we got ours without even expecting it and are having fun.

maybe if they behaved better i wouldn’t be so petty abt it. it’s a shame because of how much potential it has, unfortunately it is just not going that way atm. and even if it does one day, it is not because they paraded online with hate, it is because that’s the story tim and the others wanted to write and abc approved it.

🫳🎤

[halfagone]

Heya halfa, just wanted to say I saw your post about you getting death threats over a fic??? Apparently???? That's wild, that's horrible, that's like unthinkable. Im glad you're taking steps to protect yourself but I just wanted to say I'm sorry you had to deal with that. No one should ever get hate just for writing and sharing fics. I hope you're getting some love from your regulars on AO3 and support here as well<3

Hey, moss! Thank you for the kind words ❤️ I will be blunt and say this threat was not nearly as graphic or direct as the last one I received, and I have no doubt that so many other creators have received far worse threats than anything I've gotten. I count myself thankful, knowing it could be far worse, but it came to a point where I had to protect myself and so I did.

And you're absolutely right--this was never something that should have happened. Not to me, not to any author or artist. So many other writers have spoken about this topic in words far wiser than I ever could, so maybe I'll leave the rest to someone with a better voice than me.

I've been on the outskirts of the fandom more recently, and it's been a joy to see the occasional, sporadic comments since I've been so busy. I try to reread old comments to remind me why I still do this. It's helped a lot so far, and I thank you, too, for reaching out when you didn't have to. ❤️

Please take care of yourself too. Fandom should spark joy. Enforce boundaries to make sure it stays that way. Step away when you have to.

Look out for yourselves, out there. ❤️

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 3

Propaganda Under Cut

Allura

Lots of people (myself included tbh) ship klance (Keith and Lance). In s8 the creators made Allura/Lance canon (but then they killed her off and left the ending ambiguous it was weird). Anyway the fandom treats her like she's the most terrible bitchy woman ever but all she wants to do is end the war and avenge her destroyed home planet. Yeah she wasn't always the nicest or always the best, but you could argue some other characters in the show aren't either and they aren't treated near as bad as allura. people really just hate her bc Lance liked her. I don't think allura/lance are good together, but I still liked her as a character and thought she was interesting and had a lot of growth during the show. she DEF is not evil like some people portray her as in fic or talk about her in captions on posts. I've seen people say that they HATE her and that she's the worst and I'm like ??? let her live (well sort of ig she is dead now). lots of fic writers use her as the villain which is so interesting to me bc the show literally has villains like use them. anyway allura so perfectly fits the bracket description she deserves better.

I hate to acknowledge my time in this fandom but I hate the way the fandom treated her more. Allura was treated like shit no matter what side of the Great Ship War you were on because she was always a threat to the biggest ships (klance and sheith). At best she got put into Background Lesbian or Consolation Prize Shallura (Space Mom-zoned) (She was not a motherly figure btw. She was just Black). At worst she was violently demonized for being ~racist~ (kinda not cool with the alien race that blew up her planet for a few episodes), complete with misogynistic language hurled at her (she got called a bitch sooo much). Allura was a good and cool character and the show did her dirty but the fandom was somehow worse.

i apologise for speaking the dark magicks, but amidst the voltron fandoms many, many transgressions, there were a particular subset of people who just hated this girl. the infamous klance wars of the 2010s kept this perfectly fine childrens cartoon character in the sights of shippers everywhere, and she (and her voice actress im sure) were subjected to years of petty squabble blown up to global perportions. ive seen hate, ive seen rants, ive seen fanfics that made her homophobic. girls been through the ringer, and even though voltron was never the show its fandom wanted it to be, i believe allura deserved better

Every Supernatural Woman

Supernatural is so mean to women and committed to queerbaiting but it still gives Sam and Dean lovers to kill. The writers kill and villainize them and the fans get the few that remain

wincest and destiel shippers cannot handle the idea of their blorbos having a Woman THREATENING their SHIPS god FORBID

It literally used to be a running joke that if a female character got introduced you knew she was going to die soon because fans would react so negatively to her "stealing" one of the boys away from the big ship, whether it be destiel or wincest

[oceanwithouthermoon]

Talking about Saiki and SA here a bit, btw, just a warning~

Thinking about how you said Saiki was a victim of SA and you’re literally so right. I feel like people sometimes just blow right past the fact that Kusuke is like that with his brother, but I think it can add a lot to interpretations of his character. But even if it only goes as far as what is shown in canon — which I almost doubt — it still remains the fact that Kusuke is doing all of that knowing fully well that his brother can hear him. It’s literally sexual harassment.

People point it out more often with Teruhashi and her brother (back to the reasons you said, people think it’s more serious if it happens to women). But the things he does, that’s all sexual harassment. And yet when Kusuke does similar things, it’s often brushed aside. Just,,, a bit crazy to me.

(And that’s not even mentioning when people completely disregard this part of Teruhashi’s story and act like she’s one-dimensional,,, but that’s another story)

But all this to say you’re literally so right. Anyways love you mwah =^•w•^=

THANK YOU SO MUCH. I NEEDD PEOPLE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MORE.

(heed the sa warning + abuse and incest warning before opening, i talk a LOT here.. im mostly just reiterating what happens directly in the manga though.. ALSO EXTREMELY LONG POST WARNING..)

I always viewed kokomi and makoto + kusuo and kusuke as like.. paralleling each other ? not sure if thats the right word, but IMMEDIATELY when i saw both of these dynamics i made the connection.. i guess since it was so clear to me, i assumed that it was so obvious and on purpose that everyone else knew too, but so many people just.. ignore it..

i think most people that read/watch saiki k have recognized the fact that most main characters are meant to parallel or relate to saiki in at least some way, (if anyone who doesnt know what im talking about is reading this, im sure at least someone on here has done a better breakdown on that, i just.. dont know where to find that..) but this particular connection is one i dont see often and i genuinely believe that its almost entirely because of the whole "sexual assault/harassment isnt as serious when it happens to men as when it happens to women" thing.. most of the fandom acknowledge that what makoto does is awful and kokomi is a victim, so why is it different when its kusuke and kusuo ??

its EXACTLY the same.. what we see on screen with the saikis is WORSE, actually.. and what WE see from these two relationships isnt the full extent of what the two victims experience off screen, and i strongly believe that its heavily implied that both kokomi and kusuo have been through much worse with their brothers than whats shown..

we have no idea what kusuke couldve done BEFORE moving away and creating the telepathy canceler (and dont say that he couldnt have done anything cuz they were kids, cocsa [child on child sa] is still a thing and still valid, ESPECIALLY since they were both kid geniuses and kusuke definitely KNEW better.. but yea, kusuo implies that hes been like that for a long time, way before we ever saw them, sooo..) and its highly likely that whatever happened that we didnt see, before or after the move, was WORSE than what he does ON screen (i honestly dont want to think about what a guy with an incestual obsession with his brother does with cameras everywhere in his brothers home..) and what we see him do is already insane..

literally using his brother to get off, manipulating him and forcing him to play the games that give him sexual pleasure.. actually, speaking of, ive seen some people say that what kusuke does isnt really incest because the only reason he uses kusuo is because hes a masochist and kusuo is the only person that can overpower him.. this is a total misfire LOL, his upbringing alongside kusuo and his relationship with him is the REASON that hes a masochist, the ENTIRE REASON why thats what he gets off to.. its not just CONVENIENT that kusuo is there to get him off, he SPECIFICALLY seeks kusuo out and forces him to do things that give him sexual pleasure.. he believes that kusuo is the only person in the world that can ever give him sexual pleasure, what about that doesnt sound incestuous?

and one of the worst parts of it is, kusuo BARELY acknowledges how weird it is.. in fact, he's COMPLACENT in a lot of the games, obedient even, being bribed into them the same way he does with simple things like bringing kuniharu to work.. this is the biggest reason why i believe the off-screen stuff is probably worse, because kusuo is obviously conditioned to think that letting your brother get off to you is just.. fine.. we hardly see him try to get away from this situation beyond simply calling him gross.. theres one moment during the cat tank situation where kusuke tries to get him to grab the limiter off of his crotch specifically so that he can see him in that position and kusuo looks terrified and cant do it, BUT its unclear whether the expression of fear was entirely his concentration because he didnt wanna break the limiter or because he didnt want to let his brother get off to that, and i think its mostly the former ? idk, i dont remember this part that well but im preeeetty sure..

he does acknowledge that MAKOTOS behavior is bad when he sees it, but he never thinks its a big enough deal that he needs to help her or anything, (except for maybe the okinawa situation) which i know is probably just for the sake of not letting the gag manga get too serious, BUT it can also be explained pretty easily by this whole thing.. the way kokomi is treated is literally the same way kusuo lives his life, even down to their incestuous brother being possessive to the point of berating their potential love interests.. (which in this case happened to be each other, kusuo and kokomi..)

so yeah, kusuo just. doesnt really know how bad it actually is ? or maybe he does, but doesnt acknowledge it because he doesnt WANT to.. him barely acknowledging it and being complacent is part of why some people dont really get that its sa and incest, but his complacency obviously plays a big part in how its effected him too, like thats purposeful.. like i said, hes been CONDITIONED not to acknowledge it..

to me, it looks like a classic situation in which kusuo doesn't acknowledge his trauma because he knows that if he did, it would change his outlook on his life, his family, and his childhood FOREVER. he would never be willing to tell anyone or ask for help on his own accord, and accepting that there was anything wrong in the first place means, to him, dealing with that issue by himself for the rest of his life.

why would he ever admit that anything was wrong if nothing would change either way? the only thing that WOULD change is HIM, and why would he want that? isnt it better to be blissfully unaware than to knowingly suffer in silence?

plus, he genuinely does love his brother and knows in the back of his mind that kusukes feelings toward him comes from their unhealthy upbringing and relationship and its more complex than just "hes an evil guy blah blah.." because he isnt really evil and kusuo KNOWS that.. actually, he might be the only person in the world who COULD understand..

so yeahhhh.. kokomi and kusuo are both CANONICALLY victims of sexual harassment.. (and incestual abuse at that..) and, by my interpretation, implied victims of sa as well !! (im not really sure where the line can be when it comes to this sometimes, like when your brother sniffs your bedsheets and rubs himself on them or gets off to you right in front of your face or tries to get you to grab something positioned over his crotch so he can see you in.. THAT position.. but i already said that its pretty likely that both brothers have gone farther than that off-screen..)

anywayyyy.. this is so important to me and i wish people would talk and write about it more instead of pretending it never happened and mischaracterizing every one of these characters, especially for the sake of a ship like i was talking about in my other post.. it sucks that people so often just cast kusuos canon issues aside..

[wilcze-kudly]

I really want to see your post about how Katara is forcefully matured by the fandom, please!

Ok, while I wasn't ready to make that post in earnest, and frankly never might be, here's some of my cursory thoughts on the topic. I'd gladly talk about it in detail more but also ✨️fear✨️

So, let's get the obvious out of the way. Katara is a 14 year old. A child, barely a teen. In fact, the entirety of the gaang is made up of children.

Now, I haven't been fully active in the atla fandom in quite some time, mostly lurking on the peripheries, because the fandom is a shitshow. One of the reasons being the fact that most fans cannot, for the life of them handle the Gaang's inherent childishness.

This isn't just a Katara problem. Other than her, Aang suffers the most for the egregious crime of being a 12 year old survivor of a genocide. Suki is, of course, mainly ignored. The interpretations of Toph can vary wildly, from her being horrifically matured to being dissmissed as a chaotic, rude child. Zuko and Sokka's immature moments are looked at more permissively, being an angsty boi™️ and a goofy goober respectively.

I do find it odd that Aang doesn't get the "boys will be boys" pass, but ok, we'll blame it on him being... bald? a nice boy? not concerned with his own masculinity?

As for Katara, her maturity is treated like... a given. She's the mom of the group, the proverbial love interest, the feminist icon, the badass fighter, the trailblazer filled with feminine rage. The trophy wife to Aang, the (Lore Olympus style) Persephone to Zuko's Hades.

And true, she is, or at least can be, a lot of these things.

However she is, first and foremost, a child. This fact is presented to us on a silver platter in the first episode, when her and Aang are penguin sledding.

Katara : I haven't done this since I was a kid!

Aang: You still are a kid!

Katara is a child forced to mature. Her circumstances forced her to try to fill her mother's place and to fight for those who couldn't do so themselves. The fandom brands her as a mom friend. Sees her purely as an icon of empowerment. Or worse, degrades her character to being a love interest.

(im talking about both sides of the kataang/zutara debate. I have my biases, but I'm sure there are kataangers who treat her like this as well. I simply have encountered very few of them.)

Her story, while yes, has many themes of female empowerment is in huge part, a tragedy. The tragedy of a young girl forced to grow up much too soon.

Sadly, this is rarely spoken about. It's not spoken about directly and therefore a lot of the fandom doesn't see this. (Or simply doesn't want to see it)

This is not to say that Katara's more mature aspects should be dismissed or buried. She displays a lot of maturity for her age, to the point of being able to go toe to toe both intellectually and physically with the (admittedly usually incompetent) adults of the show. Additionally, she evolves as a character through the durtation of the show.

But a huge chunk of her maturity being forced and therefore unhealthy is a key aspect of her character.

I think what upsets me the most is that while the critiquing the idea of Katara being treated as the mom of the group in fanon is becoming more and more common, the treatment of her as something akin to a YA protagonist is on the rise.

Both these interpretations are so insulting to the character of Katara, what is wrong with you people?

I'm currently rewatching atla with a focus on Katara as a character (while also trying to give zutara a chance I am doing my best guys) and her childishness is an integral part of her. It's sad to see her treated as an adult by the fandom. And honestly unsettling, especially with how much of like a child she acts.

I wanna finish my rewatch before I give my full ramble on the topic. I also wanna look more into the many different opinions people in the atla fandom have on Katara's treatment by the show. Though even trying to skim the surfce was like injecting lemon juice directly into my tear ducts. Also I really, really don't wanna get sent death threats again.

I want to give the topic of Katara my full attention. However I don't think I'll ever make this post, actually. The atla fandom is a rabid horrid pack of creatures and I'm not sure if I wanna engage with all that.The post would probably bash a lot of things considered key arguments for Zutara, since, looking at Zutara through a child's doesn't exactly scream 'romance' and do I really want that on my blog?

Katara's role as a child isn't valued as much as her role as a woman and I just don't want to deal with people calling me mean names for talking about a little girl being traumatised.

I'd be glad to have a discussion but I made this blog mainly to have fun and enjoy a piece of media I like. I met some truly amazing people whom I can have really great discussions with, even if we don't agree. I don't want to jeopardise that by being a pretentious dick on a soapbox.

Call this and the last few posts I made on Katara me testing the waters.

[therealtsk]

What Your Favorite Worm Ship Says About You

some people have found my crusty, old ass tumblr post on this very topic, so im making a new one with my updated opinions! Cause those are, in fact, allowed to change. Enjoy! Taylor x Lisa: you're into relationships that could be dysfunctional or healthy with one push in either direction. also something something sun lesbian moon lesbian. Taylor x Rachel: You love dogs, and you want a girlfriend who can kick your ass. You're also into bomber jackets. I respect you. Taylor x Alec: Sadly, you do exist, and you did make it weird. Go away! Taylor x Amy: You read altpowers on the daily and complain about canon worm being too grimdark. Solid odds on you having never read worm. To be clear, it's worse if you have. also something something FBI OPEN UP Taylor x Victoria: You like the vibes of Lisa and Taylor's dynamic, but you want them to be a little more heroic and a little less dysfunctional. But only a little. Taylor x Clockblocker: You're straight and liked that one joke that cropped up. I also haven't seen any of you in a hot minute, thank god. No offense but this ship is mad boring.

Taylor x Sophia: You've come to realize that Sophia is a great character who gets done extremely dirty by the rest of the fandom. Also, rivals to lovers. Taylor x Emma: This can go one of two ways. Either you adore childhood friends to lovers, or you love enemies to lovers. Either way, you're obsessed with hurt and/or comfort fics. Taylor x Theo: You actually read Worm and recognize that Theo is criminally underrated in the fandom. Now just stop shipping him with Taylor and you'll complete the next step on your journey to enlightenment.

Taylor x Simurgh: I can't say for sure you're a anime fan, but you're definitely at least a little bit of a monsterfucker. also something something inherent eroticism of being world-destroying power couple. Taylor x Greg. You read Worm SI's unironically and get really defensive when people say that Greg is an incel. Completely unrelated, you haven't spoken to a woman other then your mother in five years. Taylor x Cherie: I've been informed this is a ship. I've yet to be informed as of a reason why I should like it. Cherie likers stay mad!

Lisa x Rachel: I don't remember the last time I saw this ship that wasn't also tagged as a polycule with Taylor, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're an OT3 enjoyer.

Lisa x Victoria: You’re into the “enemies to lovers” trope, but more of the "Spiderman x Black Cat" type then the "you murdered my entire home town but i can't help but find you sexy" type. Also you have a thing for blondes

Lisa x Faultline: Your ideal relationship dynamic is bickering married couple. You're also into heist movies.

Lisa x Simurgh: You have a thing for smart girls... who hate you. Also, you really liked Part of the Whole.  Contessa x Alexandria: You're fucking based. Also something something inherent eroticism of girlbosses winning Contessa x Numberman: you're friends with Peri and enjoy memes about pants and math Numberman x Jack Slash: You think serial killers are hot and are starved for m/m ships. Danny x Eidolon: You're losersexual and are starved for m/m ships. Also you frequent r/wormemes Danny x Miss Militia: Honestly, i think you all died out. I couldn't be happier, this ship is fucking dumb. Amy x Literally Anyone Besides Taylor: listen, there's like a hundred different jokes i could make here, but all of them boil down to amy defenders always defending the rapist for some reason so let's just agree amy defenders are fucking cringe and move on Dragon x Defiant: You understand that this is unironically the only healthy relationship in worm with some of the best character growth and romance in the entire story, and a majority of all of it happens off screen. You're extremely bitter that so many fanfics do both of them so dirty they get beaten into different characters. Alec x Aisha: You like the idea of this ship, cause two pranksters making everyone miserable is the kinda vibe you enjoy, but constantly run into the issue that Alec is...well. Alec. That or you're into Alec's brand of shit, in which case, FBI OPEN UP Aisha x Missy: You read It's Cold Out There Every Day. I did too. Fuck, this fic is so good. I'm going to go cry about the ending again. Lily x Sabah: Yes, you know the age gap is a little problematic, you just want to be happy with your relatively healthy canon lesbians goddamn it Purity x Literally Anyone: You don't understand why people keep calling you racist. You're not! You're just weirdly defensive of the hot milf who murders people of color and seem to constantly bring up that Kaiser didn't actually believe the nazi propaganda he was peddling. You are racist btw Taylor x Brian: You...are Wildbow

[msbunnat]

thank you for your answer, in any case I was already very excited by your comic and I cannot wait to read more about it!

I honestly cannot understand the people hating on your work. I feel like fandoms has been invaded by a wave of purity/moral policy that shouldn't exist anymore. it's even more wild to me knowing you're working on a greek myth, and the greek myths are KNOWN to have many versions. that's the beauty of them in my opinion, the way these authors all wrote their own versions and they passed them to us. I love the fact you picked Ganimedes, and you decided to explore both Zeus and him. And the mystery you keep about your relationship really makes me wonder which take you will follow!

and speaking of take, I really enjoy yours on Zeus. Gods are complex beings, and sure they're problematic (like duh) and bad, and everything but it's funny how people will decide which pick for who. Like everybody love Poseidon but oh boy, he can be as bad as Zeus people. So yeah, I am actually excited to read the way you're gonna write him! I don't hate Zeus, sure he does seem one of the "worse" when reading most of the myths, but my favorite thing is the way you can love one god in one story, and hate him in another. they're immortal beings. they're not just black and white. so I happen to enjoy when authors write Zeus as more than just a big bad villain. But I also enjoy when they just don't make him a "sweet lovely daddy".

Oh by the way, I didn't know the version of Metis abusing him and I'll have to look into it! We had a more "feminist" vision of her myth in my class, so it's not something that was talked about hmm.

Also, my bad for saying he died. It was a sum up because of him turning into a constellation. I cannot say we studied this myth so unfortunately I don't have sources to help you on it! It's assumed he lives on forever young but the fact he turns into a constellation is why people think he died?

Thanks! I want to post soon, but I'm so tireeed ;w; I prefer to make people wait and do a good job tho.

About the hate... People re affraid (artists have to much power kkkkk) and we live in a time that you need to share your opnion to get validation. In my case, they need to say that Zeus is bad and hate on him and me so they know they re on the rigth side and have good morals. And even after all this, I think its a good thing they just warning people, that way I can get to my real target that can enjoy characters more complex that re not good or evil, but mess up beings (that includes Ganimedes). And even if people in the end critizied my aproach, its also fine, I dont claim to be perfect and just hope that even to the mad ones, they feel inspired to create their version as well. I think they forgot that, like, they can have their version and will be as valid as mine, dosent matter the story.

(I really enjoy everything about Ganymede, if people go and do their versions, its a plus to me! More about him is best for me heheh. I came across two versions of Ganymede on tumblr and I LOVE BOTH!! I really want to do a fanart of the second one, but I'm a lil afraid if they dont want to interact with me, which is fair, but I'm just judging by the dark aproach on the myth, as a horror story).

Thanks for liking my Zeus u.u I'm really more found of him, as I think about his past, but I'm trying not to focus to much on him! He steals the scene to much!!!

About Metis, its not a version, but a interpretation. I'm looking to see if I find a sourse, but anyway, its intresting, since they met when Zeus was still young. And there re some greek myths with female abusers, so... its something.

Oooh! I see. hm... I never see the constelation as a death, so its not clicking with me, but I understand. Any way, I kinda dont like the constelation, for some reason looks wrong to me, but its a valid version and Im totally using the aesthetic kkkk

[anonvkirkped]

Exposing @/Kirkped.

hello everyone, i will stay anon for this callout but you may know who i am, or know my story. I dont wish to cause anything but i just want people within the fandom to know what this person has done.

TW / CW for: grooming, arguing, suicide and suicide baiting, racism, slurs, splitting.

for background info, kirkped goes by multiple within this callout, timmy and xochi. Kirkped has mental illnesses which cause them to lash out and i understand that, yet over time this was just abuse, they claimed they were trying and attempting to get better, but often lied and only got worse. Continuing to blame mental illness when i feel it is no excuse, being mentally ill does not give a right to abuse.

i have attempted to blur out all names. And give proof.

————————

starting off with something important: The racism, timmy is kirkped and has been confirmed by kirkped themselves. They lied about being black when in reality being asian. Went on for around a while. Said the N word multiple times.

—————-

Next up just general abuse:

These screenshots are from when i posted a video of me and them playing roblox, friend saw it and brought it up. Friends talked about how they were abusive and i wont stop going back, yet xochi told me to tell them it was due to their mental illness.

kirkped getting upset im busy on my birthday party, i get they need the attention but i told them before i would be busy that day.

One of xochis friends, i had blocked xochi and they told them to contact me. I didnt want to talk anymore yet they wouldnt take no for an answer.

Suicide baiting, they did this 24/7. They copied and pasted this and sent it to a bunch of people. Made me lose my mind.

Them getting upset just recently after we sadly spoke again after months, i didnt want to talk anymore due to being triggered and they exploded on me.

—-

This is just insane.

and also

Them ignoring my triggers

———

this is the first callout ive ever made, xochi has caused great pain to me and others, their relationship has caused me to dissociate, have panic attacks so bad i shut down, and get triggered and cry every time i enter the basement: where they suicide baited and made me cry and scream over call while i his from my family, it was a painful night.

i have needed professional help to recover, im still shaken up. Im still so extremely traumatized to the point of abusing drugs to force myself to forget the past. This is only a chuck of everything but im not sure what else to add. Im scared, i dont understand why they keep coming back, they keep pretending theyre fine when they need help, i dont want to cancel them. I just want them to realize they hurt others and many wish them to stay away from the internet.

please understand. Its 3 am and im very scared. I am traumatized over kirkped. I wish no one else has to go through the same, please block. I am not the only one either, i just havent gotten other views yet.

-anon.

[wannaeatramyeon]

mooooom! i got a request for youuu~ 💌

-young reader learned taekwondo from hansu, but never got to meet his son. so, she only knew taehoon from hansu's stories and cute photos of him aaand that's how she developed a crush on taehoon. years later, she finally meets him... but her "cute" image of him immediately shattered the moment he opened his mouth; chaos ensues 💀

this scenario has been on my mind for a while now and it makes me giggle to an unhealthy degree that i want an entire fic of it 😭 also if it wasn't obvious, i thirst for hansu content 🥺🫶 tysm in advance 🤧

p.s. i really REALLY love your fics and your writing aaaaaa 🫠 ik i already told you before and but im saying it again hehe hope you have a great day! ilyy~~ 💖💖

My dear lovely baby Rie! I saw this and thought yes, let's drop everything INCLUDING Tears of The Kingdom and write this.

But... I'm sorry, there really isn't much Hansu in this, it's very very Taehoon centric.

One of the best things about fandom is bringing people together and I'm so happy to have met you!

Seong Taehoon x Reader: Strangers to... a Not-Crush

Follow up with Hansu and Taehoon here

You're pretty sure you're in love with this Taehoon.

The first time you heard his name was during your very first Taekwondo lessons, many many years ago

Schedules, circumstances, situtations; all the usual life happenings has stopped you both from actually meeting.

But Hansu waxes lyrical about his son. You must have heard for the hundredth time how he is a spinning prodigy, how he has surpassed Hansu at a similar age, how he will be one of the best. His name destined to be written in the history books.

As Hansu talks about his son with stars in his eyes, you can't help the shine rubbing off on you too.

.

.

"Y/N, this is Taehoon."

Your jaw drops. Sure, Hansu has shown you countless pictures. Compared to the real living thing though, the gap is so vast you might as well say he's the least photogenic person alive. That's really saying something, because Taehoon photographs well.

He's one of the prettiest boys you've ever seen.

With his lips and eyes and even his goddamn hair. Are those lashes even for real? And then you notice his stature and his muscles, his rock-solid chest and abs peeking through.

Maybe he's not pretty at all. He's fucking hot.

You jaw drops even further.

Why on earth hasn't Hansu ever shown you a full body picture, he could have at least prepared you. Like a cliche, you feel weak at the knees. You feel light-headed-

Then Taehoon opens his mouth and the illusion shatters. Splinters into a hundred million little pieces. With his next words, you've never felt more pissed off in your life.

"Keep looking pervert, and I'll pluck your eyes out,"

What the fuck is this guy's problem.

.

.

For once, the stars align, and you see each other constantly.

You curse the damn stars. You curse Hansu for passing your tutelage to Taehoon. Most of all, you curse Hansu for creating this.

The idea of Taehoon is much better than this... this fucking menace you have to see day in day out.

Taehoon makes you address him as Master. He hits you on the head for stepping out of line (you bite your tongue every goddamn time), he takes no prisoners during your spars together, makes you repeat exercises over and over until you're on all fours and trying not to throw up.

And infuriatingly, he touches you.

Little corrections with his hands, his elbows, his knees, his legs, his foot. "Your stance is shit," he tells you, "your technique is still off," as he taps the offending body parts, mere millimetres out of place. Your cheeks burn every time and your skin is on fire even hours later.

What's worse is your head swims every night with Taekwondo and Taehoon.

Lying in bed, all you can see is him. That antagonising smug smile on his lips. You want to wipe it off his stupidly handsome face.

See if he has any cutting words left when, not if, you beat him in a spar, and you gloat over him, straddling his hips, trapping him between your thighs and you can feel how aroused he is-

Oh.

Shit.

You hug your pillow tighter to your body.

This relevation is a fucking nightmare.

.

.

Taehoon reckons your skills are average at best. What he's most impressed with is your dedication and tenacity.

No matter how many times he kicks your ass, you still get back up for more. Regardless of all his nitpicking and corrections with your form, you take onboard his words and listen.

He hasn't missed that it's all through gritted teeth. Still.

He also hasn't missed you blushing and your breath catching in your throat when he touches you.

Nothing not out of necessity, all completely above board. But it's still funny. Messing with you.

Taehoon tells himself he is completely unaffected. People fawn over him all the time, you looking at him with hearts in your eyes is nothing new.

It's just amusing, that's all.

.

.

You don't know whether this is heaven or hell.

Taehoon piggybacks you all the way from the studio to the emergency room. You're so close you can almost taste him, see all his faint freckles, the vein in his temple from the exertion and concern.

All this proximity is doing nothing for your crush. Which you are determined to get over, by the way. Because this guy is a goddamn asshole and nothing else.

It was a silly accident, really. You went for an opening when there was none, causing Taehoon to mistime his kick. You collapsed like a sack of shit.

Worried hands check up on you even as his mouth runs.

"It's fine," you say, waving off his concern. When you tried to stand up, your ankle is in no mood to bear any weight.

You go down for a second time.

Taehoon's patience is unexpected. He waits with you until you are seen to.

Conversation is strained, and he doesn't talk much, just giving you wary glances every now and then.

But you fill the silence, telling him little anecdotes from your life and your day. Bridging the gap between Taekwondo and the little pieces that make up the rest of your life.

His lips quirk as you speak. The smiles aren't condescending.

Eventually, when the nurse tells you it's just a simple strain and will heal if you keep off it, Taehoon is the one that nods and asks follow up questions.

At the end of the day, after another piggyback this time to your home, you thank him for his time and he is surprised at your sincerity.

.

.

Taehoon doesn't miss you. Definitely not.

The only reason he is at your door with stew and kimchi is because his old man told him to check up on you.

You're not able to attend any lessons while you recover, and Hansu wanted to make sure you're ok. Not Taehoon. Taehoon could not care less. He also did not jump at the chance of seeing you again, so much so that even Hansu gives him a questioning look. Ridiculous.

Why is his palm sweaty? Must just be the heat. Taehoon wipes it on his jeans before knocking twice on your door.

"Come in," you call out, and Taehoon hasn't missed your voice. And he hasn't missed the sight of your face neither.

He doesn't greedily take in the colours of your bedroom, the pictures on your wall, the books on your shelf.

He doesn't memorise your handwriting when he walks past your desk, something that is so uniquely you, like a fingerprint.

And when you give him a shy smile and apologise for the mess, it doesn't affect him.

Nor when you take the proffered food and have a mouthful, Taehoon doesn't soften at this.

The ensuing silence is not comfortable. He doesn't want to stay longer. His fingers don't twitch in your presence, having grown used to casual touches with you.

.

.

This song and dance is continued for the next few weeks only because Taehoon is a good son, and an even better teacher.

He needs to check up on the welfare of his student.

And then finally, after too long, when you show up at the studio again, Taehoon's heart absolutely does not soar.

[ilikekidsshows]

About you being harassed by Marinette fans. I don't know if me doing this is weird, but you being open bout that makes me want to open up more too. I've send you 4 anons by now (u probably could already tell they were from one person) because I don't have a miraculous Blog anymore since the hiatus before Destruction because Marinette fans found one of my posts criticizing Marinette's treatment of Cat Noir and her leadership and they went after me for i think almost an entire week. I ended up deleting my blog in panic and fear of it getting worse the more traffic it got amongst Mari stans.

I followed the show and Fandom til now from afar to see if any of my Marinette problems were getting the fixes everyone screamed about season 5 would deliver but I can't say that happened. I wholeheartedly agree that with alot of other people that it only got worse with the doubling down and her gettin less heroic underneath the surface.

So I'm still here and upset that I was bullied out of this fandom for things I was apparently right about to degrees I didn't even knew back then how right I'd end up being....

I found a couple of blogs to follow that share my opinions and you guys have been interwoven alot now so I thought sending anons to dip my toe back into being part of the discourse is a good idea. I hope I didn't cause any Mari stans getting angry at you for it, I've been worried bout that ngl.

I would like to ask bout one of the topics Marinette fans cyberbullied me for but I still think I'm right for questioning:

How much value does Marinette see in being friends with her love interests?

Oc im not doubting that she sees at least some worth in it, but it feels very shallow. Fandom is working the lion's share to take what little canon gives and run with it til they think their fanon is real.

Marinette values friendship, sure, but Zoe is the only love interest of hers for whom that feels right to say

Marinette in Canon has said many times that for her being friends with the one she loves is the worst thing she could possibly imagine. E. g. Psycomedian. And she was rewarded with Adrien being her devoted and desperate prince for her doing probably the most friendship related thing she did in all season 4. She had a basic little convo with him about understanding to have problems and that's where it ended. Where did Marinette ever even try to be rlly Adrien's friend? She said 500x that she's finally gonna put her romance feelings aside for a bit to focus on her job (which I hoped would mean she'd work on her weaknesses in the platonic Ladynoir team dynamic too... Silly me... )

But that never goes anywhere? Weren't Adrien and Kagami the ones literally having been created out of the feeling love or to love someone in particular and even THEY could overwrite their senti programming better than Marinette ever could get over her normal ass feelings for a week? Adrien and Kagami value the friendship with the one they love deeply, is that the difference? That Marinette can't ever move one from loving someone because friendship feels like an awful downgrade and torture to her so she stays the same? What does that say bout her?

Or that Luka and Cat Noir never caused her stalker paranoia to break out that Derision claims she does to protect herself. Why does it only apply to Adrien? And not even Cat Noir, too? In my other anons I brought up how awful I think it is that Marinette seemingly has no interest in leaning anything rlly about the boy underneath Cat Noir's mask, now she barely acts like she remembers that he's real and that they'll one day reveal where he'll then find out how many times she deliberately deceived him with her civilian identity in very hurtful ways.

How does that correspond to her being in love and more important for my question, what does that level of refusal to treat someone like a real person say about her willingness to be Cat's friend? Cause I can't see friendship in Ladynoir anymore. Marinette was the one who killed that in season 4 and then season 5 didn't improve her in much. Friends don't treat each other the way Marinette so easily uses, hurts ignores, silences and deceives Cat Noir without batting an eye.

The only effort she really made was before Kwamis choice. When she thought he was still in love with her and expected that s4 magically caused no damage to his feelings for her. she seemingly thought she could just allow him to dedicate himself to her for an overall easy way to sweep everything under the rug and make him "happy" again without her ever having to really try and do better herself because that was the comfort she was seeking at that time (shoutout to Familyagrestefanblog and erisluna35. I've been paraphrasing them alot and wanted mention that too. Didn't get to write out my own opinion in a while and I agree with them x})

This refusal to face her hurtful actions of s4 quickly developed into her craving for him to give her his easy love and not wanting to take anything less than precisely the endless devotion she wanted from him now. No matter what the price. No matter how much it put him too in danger (what even meant Cat Blanc?), and yet, still no interest in him as a person.

Once she had to take the no, she left and then she never again made a genuine effort in Ladynoir. Any effort to better herself was romance related. Determination may have been the episode where she rlly noticed her changed feelings for him, but she did try earlier than that. But it fully stopped with his no as did her changed feelings vanish as quickly as they showed up. So what does that say about her and how she views their "friendship"?

Season 4 has her already show that she doesn't want Ladynoir to be an actual friendship since she treats him barely better than a magical pet she rarely ever thinks about, which caught her off guard over and over that she isn't being the kindest and adoring person of all time to him. She treats him so much worse than her actual friends and in s5 she isn't trying to build a real connection beyond wanting him to shower her in his devotion and love.

What season 5 shows bout Marinette's view of the Ladynoir friendship is in my most generous reading her not getting to hide behind any romantic feelings from either side that she doesn't know how to be his friend, after she had to learn in season 4 that she was a really really bad one. But even with that generous reading, it would still mean that Marinette then went on prioritizing not having to feel any further discomfort or having to owe up for her actual mistakes in their bond over her finally being the friend she SHOULD think Cat Noir deserves. A friend he desperately needed but never got cause she called it a day with her personal needs being met my having her best friend Alya with her.

Friends don't do that. Marinette denied him any genuine friendship he obviously truly needed as Cat Noir because she personally didn't need it from him anymore cause of Alya. And he rejected her desire to now be adored by him so there was no purpose left anymore for him to fulfill in her life besides the easy partner she made clear cant ask shit from her.

That is so unbelievably selfish... How on earth is that supposed to be FRIENDSHIP?

Srry, for this being long. Last point.

Luka of course needs to be mentioned too. Sure, the show says they are friends. But are they really? Their friendship is built on him being her platonic therapist back-up boyfriend who doesn't ask shit of her either. This is still the same pattern as with Catrien. Luka does all the emotional labor and Marinette just takes and takes and that's what makes her so comfortable around him but she isn't interested in him either beyond what she sees day to day in front of her.

That doesn't count as friendship in my book. For Adrigami you can still feel their friendship after their breakup. But Lukanette is Luka being a platonic therapist boyfriend and Marinette being just as disinterested in him as with Cat Noir while being just as comfortable getting showered in emotional labor that she's unwilling to work on giving back the way she should.

How is that friendship? What value has friendship for Marinette once any romantic feelings are involved from either side and it isn't Zoé (feels like a homophobic backhanded compliment lmao)

That was very long, I apologize. But thanks to writing in anon I started becoming more comfortable with the idea of joining the Fandom discourse again. I've got alot I wanna say after all that time in silence but I'm not sure yet if I should put myself out there again with a blog. With how season 5 ended Marinette stans are gonna be vicious beasts to any criticism they come across and I don't want that to happen again :(

---

I hope this isn't a case of speak of the devil and he shall appear but lately things have been really quiet on the Marinette stan front. The worst I’ve gotten was this really unhinged one, but they were so unpleasant they didn't have any friends so the harassment was very one-note and stopped pretty quickly since they had to run it alone. It could be that now that season 5 confirmed that season 4 wasn't an outlier, that the show’s writing has gotten incredibly sloppy and nasty, the critical side of the fandom has become unified and we add to each other’s posts and kind of back each other up. It's harder for Marinette stans to target us one by one, and their preferred tactic is dogpiling a single blog. A lot of the Marinette stans protesting my posts now shut up right quick when they see more people agreeing with me adding to the reblog chain.

As for the question, I agree with your assessment. It really does appear that Marinette hates the idea of being friends with a love interest. She whined about Adrien seeing her as just a friend all the way back in Riposte. Adrien sung her praises to Kagami, while she spied on them, and she had the gall to whine that the boy she “loves” thinks so highly of her because it wasn't the kind of thinking she wanted.

There was this one thing I said in a previous post that I think is accurate: Marinette part-times being Cat Noir's friend. Even the part of time she acts as his friend, she ignores his feelings, insults him, pushes him away, refuses to give him emotional support in any way and lies to him about anything she possibly can. She only approaches him as Marinette when she wants to complain about Adrien not coming to the date he didn't know was a date, when she thinks she can score a date with him or so that she can practice confessing to Adrien on him. Marinette's “friendship” with Cat Noir is all take with no give when she isn't outright ignoring his existence.

She also ignores boys who have feelings for her in her civilian life. Nathaniel is very suspicious of her in Reverser, having to be convinced that she wasn't planning to humiliate him, implying he isn't part of her friend group since he doesn't know her well enough to know she only humiliates people when they're in her way of getting at Adrien. (Alix makes it sound like she wouldn't do that period, but we know the truth by now.) She also refused to come to Juleka and Luka's shared birthday party if Luka was present after they broke up. I bet if you tried to tell Marinette, or her writers, that your romantic partner should also be your best friend to make a healthy relationship, they just wouldn't compute. 

I don't want to say Marinette doesn't hold friendship in high regard period, because the amount of exceptions she makes for Alya shows that she at least values Alya’s friendship. I think she just doesn't value friendship with boys. I feel like Marinette is the kind of person who doesn't think boys and girls can really be friends, which would explain why she thinks Adrien considering her a friend is worse than anything else. If boys can't really be friends with girls, Adrien using the word “friends” means they aren't even that.

Consider this: how often does Marinette hang out with her guy classmates when it isn't 1) a whole-class outing or 2) more likely that Marinette just wanted to hang out with his girlfriend? Like, in Animan, Marinette had no idea Nino had a crush on her, but she still acted like an outing with him at the zoo was the worst thing ever. I get that she was disappointed Adrien wasn't there, but Nino is one of Marinette’s oldest classmates, yet she doesn't want to spend time with him, unless she's planning to use him to get closer to Adrien, since he's Adrien’s best friend.

Of course, she doesn't really value the time with her other friends for its own sake outside of Alya either. It seems like the only times they hang out together is to plot or participate in her get Adrien quick schemes. The only times the girls do something not Marinette related is when Marinette hasn't called them together, like when they were going to the pool in Gorizilla, something Marinette completely forgot until Alya called her. Marinette has poor memory but, despite her knowing she has poor memory, she apparently gave herself no reminder to hang out with her friends. You bet I write down every occasion I’ve agreed to see my friends specifically because I have bad memory as well.

It seems like, unless you're Alya, Marinette only cares about you for how able and willing you are to help her catch Adrien's attention. I keep saying Marinette treats her Adrien romancing problems as the most important thing going on at any given moment, and it's true for all areas of her life. Maybe that's the reason we didn't see Socqueline for four seasons despite her supposedly being such an important friend to Marinette, and why she never joined the friend group proper; Socqueline couldn't help her get with Adrien so she wasn't worth Marinette’s time.

This is a yet another thing where Miraculous is actually pretty sexist; girls and boys can't ever just be friends and girls care more about getting guys than they do about their friends. Another thing of course is this idea that boys just don't have as in-depth feelings as girls or should bury their feelings and never ask for emotional support, which is why all of Marinette's love interests are her emotional support dispensers whose opinions on anything don’t matter when their job is to simply mindlessly worship Marinette while their feelings are devalued by the narrative every time they dare to try to ask Marinette for some support back. Luka gets Akumatized which convinces him to break up with Marinette when he had emotional needs she wasn't willing to fulfill. Meanwhile Adrien goes through the travesty that is Kuro Neko

“Power of love always so strong” but only when it's Marinette's toxic idea of love and when it isn't platonic love. Unless you're Alya, I guess.

[stanlunter]

i have an honest question for you. this is not meant to be a gotcha or accuse you of homophobia, just based on observing your post history of wlw vs wlm ships out of curiosity.

are there any wlw ships in cartoons that you actually do like the portrayal of?

Thanks for a question!

And yes, obviously. Actually, I posted a lot about them, so It's strange if you haven't seen it, but yeah. I understand where your answer is coming from since I do critic some wlw media and made a post about a wlw dynamic I don't like. Tbh, It's a problem for me too, bc I don't get enought of my "wlw ships type" in media and that's basically why Im complaining about it, bc every It's either bad-written or is so cliche that's it even boring. Also the problem is that I do love wlm ships as well and a lot of people say that "wlw is always better than wlm" even tho there are many good and bad examples of both of them and I think It's wrong to say smth is better just bc It's queer, even tho I am wlw myself. The "critic" wasn't towards wlw, but towards the most popular dynamic (sun x moon) that I don't like and the way people ignore others dynamics just for this one is sad to me, since bc of it I don't have enought representation of wlw ships I love, bc all of them either don't become a couple, or break up, or one of them dies (or all of these at the same time) and almost all ships that became canon have that dynamic I dislike. And at the same time it was also a joke bc It's actually true that like 80% of all wlw ships are basically the same, so It's funny to hear from their fans that all wlm ships are the same

"Are there any wlw ships in cartoons that you actually like the portray of?"

Do you mean canon or fanon?

As someone who generally in like 90% of the cases prefers fan ships over canon ones, regardless of if it's wlw, wlm or mlm, I obviously have much more fanon or half-canon favourite wlw ships, including those, where one of the characters is dead, there are some I like:

My favourite wlw ship and spop otp of all time is Scorptra. I absolutely adore everything about it and I really think they should have been stayed in Crimson waste. Some years ago I had a huge fixation on it and tbh, if I've discovered Tumbler to myself at that time, my acc would definitely be full of them and I would call myself "stanscorptra", lol. And the fact that they didn't become canon for the sake of the ship I hate - catradora, makes it even worse to me. (Scorpia x Catra from She-ra and the princess of power)

Yumihisu. That's my favourite ship from aot, Im actually glad It's popular in the fandom. I really love everything about them and the way they ended up is actually heart-breaking. In the finale of s2 I actually wanted to start killing people just bc Ymir decided to help Rainer and Berth instead od staying with Historia. And every time I rewatch it, I feel the same, bc they did have a chance to be happy together at least for some years.

It's basically canon and it was confirmed that they both love each other, but since Ymir died, I'm not sure if it is considered as actually canon since they werent actual dating (Ymir x Historia from Attack on titan)

Nanichiru, or whatever name they have, bc the fandom still hasnt decided it.

That was one of my first anime ships, I even thought It's canon and basically when I saw them together, I thought Nana is canon lesbian, which was so clear to me when I compare her with men and her with Michiru. Idk if they supposed to be "just friends", or wlw-coded, but I do consider them as a half canon anyways, bc, let's be real, if one of them was a guy, everyone would know It's canon. I absolutely love their dynamic and the way their relationship affected Nana and made her doubt her goal and actually understand that some of the people with talents are good people. Michiru changed everything for Nana and was her light in the dark, but ofc, how it always is, they didn't develop relationship and one of them died. (Nana x Michiru form Talentless Nana)

Mitsunoa. I am not obsessed with its depth, bc, ngl, they don't have such deep relationship as others, but I do love their dynamic and all of their interactions. Their homoerotic friendship and all the hints make me giggle and if we consider Mikayuu as "basically canon", than I will consider Mitsunoa as basically canon too (especially after the bath scene), bc these girls deserve the best things and they are the best things for each other. (Mitsuba and Shinoa from Seraph of the end)

Togachako. I still haven't finished the manga, so I'm not sure about what heppend with them in the end, I've only seen some spoilers. But I do love their enemies to lovers dynamic, which, unlike some other ships of this trope, isn't a romantization of abuse, but actual enemies to lovers. I doubt it has chances to actually become canon. But I still love the way their relationship was written. Uraraka is the only one who thinks Toga is cute and a pretty girl, not just a crazy monster. I absolutely love the line when she says Toga that she's the cutest girl in the whole world. I love that Toga says her feelings for Uraraka are real and that she made her happy. Toga sees her as basically a comfort person (??), someone who's love and appreciation she wants to get, someone who can save her from the hateness to herself and the world. I just want Toga to be happy with someone who can see her. Also, have you seen how mangaka draws them together?? He's either their biggest shipper, or a queerbaiter, Idk (Toga x Uraraka from My hero academy)

Also Ruby x Penny from Rwby, Webby x Lena from Duck Tales, Perfuma x Huntara from she-ra, Anne and Sasha from Amphibia, Sunset x Sci-Twi from Equestria girls, Sae-Byeok x Ji-Yeong form Squid game and others

As for canon ships, there are fewer ones, but yeah, I do have favourite wlw ships that are canon:

Menokari. Their relationship is really beautiful, It's actually similar to Nanichiru, but is gayer. I found it thanks to Talentless Nana as well, and Im glad I did. It may be seems too cliche for some people, but I think It's adorable, dramatic and well-writen. Definitely my favourite wlw anime (Menou x Akari from The Executor and her way of living)

Ellieriley. Unfortunately there are not enought scenes with them, but those we have is enought for me to love them. Riley was Ellie's first love and probably her lesbian awaking. I love their dynamic so much and I want to see more of them and I wanted them to live a happy life. I do like Ellie x Dina too, but I love her relationship with Riley much more. Riley's death has broken my heart. But at least I'm glad that they did have a kiss scene before it, that's why I do consider it as canon, unlike Yumihisu, since a lot of people for some reason are still arguing over it (Ellie x Riley from The last of us)

Spinetossa. Even tho this ship is far not the main one, I love it much more than the main canon ones. Netossa cares about her wife so much. They know each other for so long and still love each other so much. They're so cute and so sweet, that I was worrying for their relationship during s5 the most. And It's funny how Chaggie fans use "they're together for a long time" to justify the fact that Vivziepop has written them so poorly and that they look more like just friends, just bc of that, since these two exist and they actually do look like a married couple, not like just friends (Spinerella x Netossa from She-ra)

Harlivy

I ship these two in every universe. Even tho the Harley Quinn show has flaws, I still love their dynamic, yeah, even despite it being "one of those I have brought up in that post", I still ship them and think they're cute. I love that Harley has fully recovered from her relationship with Joker and that Ivy has found her true love, someone she can spend the rest of her life with (Harley x Ivy from Harley Quinn show and DC comics/cartoons)

Korrasami

I never was one of those people who say Korrasami was rushed. Yeah, the creators couldnt fully show them in the show, but they did in the comics and I haven't seen anyone who has read them and said they're bad-written. The comics show them so well, It's amazing, healthy and one of the best wlw representations I've seen! (Korra x Asami from The legend of Korra)

Obviously, that's not all of them, but those I love the most. Some of other canon wlw couples I love are: Bubblegum x Marcelin from Adventure time, Apple x Darling from Every after high, Haruka x Michiru from Sailor moon, Utena x Anthy from Revolutionary girl Utena, Kirari x Sayaka from Kakegurui, Ruby x Sapphire form Steven Universe, Vi x Caitlyn from Arcane, Sara x Nyssa from Arrow and Jennifer x Needy form Jennifer's body (I know the last two are not animated, but I still wanna include them)

So, yeah, there are a lot of wlw canon and popular ships I dislike or critic, which isn't because I hate wlw, but bc I love it and want it to be written better and be more various, than just "sun x moon", since there are a lot of so different wlm and mlm dynamics, while for wlw It's almost always either the same, or is just problematic, like Catradora. Tbh, as far as I remember, the only wlw ships I wrote bad things about were Lumity and Catradora, besides that post, so I don't know why exactly you thought it means I dislike all or most of the wlw ships, but I don't anyways

[museofthepyre]

do you know what everyones problem with elijah is? Im new to to fandom and im so genuinly confused as to why people seem to like think elijah is the worst (as in evil) character in the series. like i dont think people find him poorly written, they just, dont like him? which is fine yknow like who you like, but then people act like jedediah is a flawed but good character? which confused me a lot since I actually dislike jedediah more, as he just hurts in a more personal way it feels like. Elijah was sweeping Sydney in with promises of love that he hadnt gotten from jedediah, sydney only accepted that because of the way jedediah had been shunning him for years. It really bothers me that people forgive jedediah for his bad behavior, but then crucify elijah for behavior that while yes was very bad, had been hurting syndey way less for way shorter, and the only reason sydney was that vulnerable was because of jedidiah. Im asking because i am genuinly confused and I cant find anyone talking about the why of disliking elijah, i dont know if im missing something because of personal bias (jedidiahs mistakes that hurt sydney hit much closer to home than elijahs) sorry if this is a bit rambly, Im just very disenheartened to see so many people say they hate elijah when I just dont understand why, you dont need to answer this ask btw its mainly just curiousity

I think you kind of touched on the answer a bit already- imo it definitely comes down to what hits closer to home for any given listener. We all have unconscious biases. We all consume media through the lens of our own life experiences, and… ok ramble incoming

Elijah and Jedidiah both think/ behave in ways that are profoundly human, they represent very real concepts (see my whole Jedidiah= unhealthily distant, withdrawn and cold attachment style, and Elijah= unhealthily obsessive, suffocating and intense attachment style rant). These aren’t your typical innately evil villains, they’re just unhealthy people with warped ideas of love. That is an all too common thing to see irl. I think because of that… many of us can relate one or both of them to people we‘ve known in our own lives… alternatively, we can relate them to ourselves. I’ve heard some people say that Elijah’s actions hit a nerve because of past traumas with toxic relationships… aaand I’ve heard people say the exact same thing about Jedidiah! I think Elijah receives more scrutiny because his actions were… well they were actions. Visible, overt, right in front of you. You can point at them, pick a line from the transcript and say “that right there is bad”. Jedidiah’s wrongs often came in the form of neglect and abandonment, an absence of action, that’s so much harder to pinpoint. Maybe he’s slipping under people’s radars? Maybe more people see themselves in him and have a sense of understanding (which is valid, he embodies some very relatable neurodivergent struggles). Maybe it’s because he steps up and works on himself by the end and we don’t see that from Elijah (yet). Maybe people find Elijah “worse” because he reminds them of a more common negative experience, I’m not sure. One could speculate.

I’ll speak personally as an example of what I mean: I am wayyyyyyy more upset by Jedidiah’s actions. And that’s because of… you guessed it… my own personal experiences and how they influence my perception 🎉🎉🎉 I’ve got BPD, and I have an all consuming fear of abandonment. The idea of loving somebody and then having them suddenly withdraw, avoid you, and treat you coldly all the while providing NO EXPLAINATION WHATSOEVER… just leaving you to spiral and pick apart your own behaviours under a microscope, thinking you must be the problem— it’s a major trigger of mine. I’ve lived it!!! I grew up with it!!!!! It hits a huge sore spot for me and I admittedly struggle to overlook that sometimes when I see him.

Conversely, Elijah… I unfortunately connect with in a much deeper way. My own default attachment style is obsessive, intense, and often leaves me tunnel-visioned and unstable (…BPD), and he speaks a language I understand? If that makes sense. I see so much untreated, pre-awareness me in him. I know what it is to be involuntarily engulfed by an all-consuming obsession/ delusion. He doesn’t scare me, because I know what he’s made of- I see what’s beneath it all when I look in the mirror. Or at least that’s the lens through which I interpret him, I’m sure many disagree and yk what? Absolutely valid!!!!

There’s no one correct way to consume media, yada yada you get the idea, CHNT is unique because no character is intentionally malicious or evil (not counting Adam maybe… Lucille you’re on thin ice) and it’s fascinating how there’s such a dichotomy between the love and hate for these two. I may have swayed a bit off topic I just have many thoughts. I might come back with more later.

Ok rant over 🪱

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 1

Propaganda Under Cut

Allura

Lots of people (myself included tbh) ship klance (Keith and Lance). In s8 the creators made Allura/Lance canon (but then they killed her off and left the ending ambiguous it was weird). Anyway the fandom treats her like she's the most terrible bitchy woman ever but all she wants to do is end the war and avenge her destroyed home planet. Yeah she wasn't always the nicest or always the best, but you could argue some other characters in the show aren't either and they aren't treated near as bad as allura. people really just hate her bc Lance liked her. I don't think allura/lance are good together, but I still liked her as a character and thought she was interesting and had a lot of growth during the show. she DEF is not evil like some people portray her as in fic or talk about her in captions on posts. I've seen people say that they HATE her and that she's the worst and I'm like ??? let her live (well sort of ig she is dead now). lots of fic writers use her as the villain which is so interesting to me bc the show literally has villains like use them. anyway allura so perfectly fits the bracket description she deserves better.

I hate to acknowledge my time in this fandom but I hate the way the fandom treated her more. Allura was treated like shit no matter what side of the Great Ship War you were on because she was always a threat to the biggest ships (klance and sheith). At best she got put into Background Lesbian or Consolation Prize Shallura (Space Mom-zoned) (She was not a motherly figure btw. She was just Black). At worst she was violently demonized for being ~racist~ (kinda not cool with the alien race that blew up her planet for a few episodes), complete with misogynistic language hurled at her (she got called a bitch sooo much). Allura was a good and cool character and the show did her dirty but the fandom was somehow worse.

i apologise for speaking the dark magicks, but amidst the voltron fandoms many, many transgressions, there were a particular subset of people who just hated this girl. the infamous klance wars of the 2010s kept this perfectly fine childrens cartoon character in the sights of shippers everywhere, and she (and her voice actress im sure) were subjected to years of petty squabble blown up to global perportions. ive seen hate, ive seen rants, ive seen fanfics that made her homophobic. girls been through the ringer, and even though voltron was never the show its fandom wanted it to be, i believe allura deserved better

Kayano Kaede

shes genuinely a really tragic character who had potential for a really compelling, effective arc concerning grief, identity, healing, and finding trust again all while going through the inherent ordeal of being 15 years old….if she werent a female character in a shonen anime 😭😭 instead she gets sidelined during the show up until her big plot twist reveal after which shes immediately sidelined again. whatever i still love her and know her to be a character of all time who has suffered more than jesus. in my experience shes perhaps the female character who like. ive seen most *obsessively* hated due to her “getting in the way” of the ship b/w the male protagonist + deuteragonist (bc of her proximity to the both of them) u woild think shes the devil incarnate and not just. 15 and traumatised 

She had a crush on Nagisa and they kissed and a lot of fans ship him with Karma so theyre mad that Kaede is there. She is super silly and nice but the fandom hates her for standing in the way of karmagisa.

she's a sweet person that was an actor and loves her sister. she is the main love interest of the main character but doesn't interact with him more than most of the other characters for a majority of the story. Often I have seen them removed from the story only to become some homophobic jerk that's desperate for the main characters love instead of letting her keep the good friendship that her and the main character had before the romance.