#im so so deeply interested in the whole culture of it and i have ! considered ! many times getting into it

[transgaysex]

i should go to gay bars

[pestorik]

you said something about some ships in the AT au, so now you're being interrogated. What ships do you like/what ships are canon for the AT au besides epeljack?

people are allowed to ignore whatever ships they want or see them as platonic but the ones i see as canon in the au:

treycater: they are exes but i imagine them eventually getting back together after a lot of character and plot development on both their parts, they have a lot of growing to do individually. there would be lots of antics in which they are forced to spend time together and Talk It Out.

jamikali: this one has a lot of flexibility in terms of whether you want to see them platonically or romantically, i actually enjoy the potential for both. i think kalim would set jamil free like at the beginning of the very last season and throughout that season we woud see what their lives are like without the other and they would both realize they want to be together (jamil ideally stops wanting to subjugate the human race). it would be heavily implied that they are dating in the last episode.

epeljack: at the series finale, when jacks curse is broken (or maybe he comes to peace with being a wolf), they travel the world together. definitely wouldnt happen until after the end of the show tho

rookvil: they are kind of a joke ship bc i think vil mostly sees rook as an annoying pawn (im deeply attached to vil remaining cartoonishly evil for the whole show sry) but maybe he eventually agrees to ONE date and they have a fun night ruining peoples lives. after epel leaves vil probably allows rook to stay over more often bc hes no longer used to living alone. so they are kind of in a relationship in which vil is more tolerant of (perhaps even enjoys, sometimes returns) rooks deranged love. rook is a huge masochist and 100% believes he has found his sadist soulmate in vil (he's right)

silbek: you can take or leave this one but regardless they are definitely life partners, platonic or otherwise. the dragon kingdom is very ancient and isolated, they have little contact with other cultures bc of their location in the mountains (it's hard to get to if youre not a dragon). silver and sebek would gradually start leaving the kingdom more often throughout the show and show more interest in the outside world. in the final episodes malleus and lilia give them their blessing to leave the kingdom and travel the world (ofc they are always welcome back). having learned of his own origins, silver wants to search for surviving humans, sebek agrees to stay by his side (protect the squishy human).

leovil: im honestly not even a huge shipper of this and dont really consider it canon to this au but i just LOVE a dynamic in which they act like a divorced couple that hate each other. maybe they have romantic history, maybe they dont, but they hate each other ❤️

jeiazu: they are sweethearts in crime, forever evil. notes from original post: their version of a happy ending is just them being evil together and constantly making up and breaking up for eternity. I'm very into that kind of dynamic lol where they are constantly bickering but are both so fucked up that no one else could ever understand them so they always come back to each other.

adeuce: nobody can tell if they are dating or not bc they are both so stupid, and i think it will remain that way for their entire lives.

not canon but i like to think about it as a little treat: mallekei (maybe they go on a feeew dates, trey is NOT upset about it), azurid, mallerid, idiazu, deurid, leoruggie, idikei, lilidia

[motohagios]

forgot to really analyze this scene, it's the very first one in the ova. i like keiko's decision to introduce natsu e with the duel, i think the duel in general encapsulates so much of the tragedy that even two best friends are now in such a violent state of mind and willing to kill each other. all this for ledania... but im yaoipilled and when i get to the actual duel part im going to give a really gay analysis of it i fear. don't worry about it

BUT i just wanted to point out the dialogue changes here

in the manga, lind mocks jacques for saying this line, making fun of him for being too superstitious/illogical. and i want to analyze their dynamic in a single post one day, just focusing on them (and character analyses for everyone because i am so normal), but lind already talks to jacques like this even when they are friends, it's just playful bantering. during the duel, there's a new tension to it though, considering jacques switched up on him and renounced their friendship over ledania. and they're both JUST freshly grieving their friend who JUST killed himself. mind you jacques was already slapping the fuck out of lind and challenging him to a duel WITH CLAUDES CORPSE STILL UNDER THE BLANKET RIGHT BY THEM

anyway. the dialogue in the ova is interesting to me because it's not as tense as the manga. lind's little casual response "yeah no hard feelings if you die" and jacques's offended "WHAT?" is so funny to me. the dialogue alone has a comedic feel to it despite the really morbid circumstances, but also, it doesn't feel that far removed from the kind of dynamic we see them having as friends - lind delivers a playful insult and pre-duel jacques would answer back with a insult. but now jacques just gets mad. even so it captures their dynamic really well but with a more blatant undertone of playfulness/bantering/flirting even though the situation is still tense.

i think it's interesting for lind's characterization, because he only talks to jacques like this. he's much more passive aggressive when he actually wants to hurt/upset someone, which we see with how he treats marion after the sara reveal. he's a lot more cold, cruel, etc. but with jacques, it's a whole different dynamic. might be a reach but i don't get the impression he's ever truly aiming to hurt jacques's feelings. even the "son of a carpenter" line he delivers when jacques challenges him is just a repeat of a line he said earlier in a teasing, friendly, playful context.... just a little less fun now. so my reach is.... especially combined with how nervous lind looks during the duel compared to jacques who is more resolute in his decision, i do think lind never deeply resented or disliked jacques and did NOT want him to actually die. but things like status, culture, etc cornered him to accept the duel in response to jacques's public declaration. lind values status and image, so i think that's the main reason he accepted the duel against his own wishes. i don't know what he feared more - dying or killing his bestie!!

[macncherries]

Full grown white man typing an essay over why he's not racist. Jesus Christ

You are white. You are not a person of color. Please listen to brown and black people instead of talking over them.

Hello again! I assume this is the same Anon as before (i apologize if not.) Sorry for any confusion, i was not writing "an essay" on why i was not racist. I was outlining the new and old terminology i have used for clarification purposes! I thought you had made an innocent mistake. I understand that There is an answer under the cut. I do not feel it fair to subject my followers to an Anon consistently clinging to my ask-box, on a concept they do not care to understand, in motivation purely to perpetuate irrelevant, melodramatic conversations.

For everyone else, thank you for sticking around! I know its been mostly text posts from me lately >_< theres more Labru art on the way!! Im also planning on doing kinktober for Labru!!! please stay tuned!

I actually did not even know you were even attempting to call me racist. I thought you were confused on the difference between "race science" and anthropology. I assume you are young, or uneducated about more niche sciences (which is okay) but i dont think its right to call someone racist for having a special interest in something you do not understand. And for something you likely did not fully read. It is not appropriate for you to lightly throw around accusations like that. Especially without proper commitment, research, or evidence Considering youre calling it "an essay" at a measly 544 words, i can safely assume you also did not bother to read the full thread(s) of reblogs your comment originates from. 544 words is not even considered an essay in college. Im required to write that much for a discussion post. Regardless, I can also assume this to be the case because the person who originates that thread (whom i outwardly agreed with, amplified, and was newly informed by) is POC. I dont feel comfortable depending on that aspect any further though, because i dont know OP personally, and wouldnt feel comfortable roping them into anything.

And i am white, im not hiding that fact, so im not sure why youre using it as a "gotcha" moment. I am a person who cares deeply about ethnically accurate features, cultural implications, skeletal anatomy, and anthropology. I care about being accurate to characters ethnic backgrounds, whether canon or implied. White people can do that. Its better for white people to do that, rather than be racially ignorant.

And, by extension, I am listening to people of all ethnicities. Especially POC. I am not speaking over anyone, and am only adding my own commentary. More importantly; no one else, not white, not POC, has spoken against it. So i physically am unable to speak over anyone.

More importantly though, i have talked to, and received input from POC already. Thank you for your concern. I have received input that what information i put out there did help people. People from everywhere. It was so very beautiful to hear. I saw multiple people both here and elsewhere appreciate the research i did. That was so heartening. And so despite this whole text post, i also want to thank anyone who contributed, reblogged, liked, just appreciated, or talked to me in reference to those original posts.

All contributions to the reblog thread had an overarching theme, and since you didnt read it all, i dont blame you for not knowing. That is; assessing the best, most accurate, possible way to portray Kabru and Thistles ethnic ambiguity. I go very much in depth as to how achieve that, as well as where i specifically find Kabru to most likely originate from in comparison to our own worlds culture and geography. I use anthropological and facial-anatomical evidence to support that. The evidence i use is not related to "race science" or anything similarly grotesque. The implication that "race science" is at all similar to anthropology is a disservice to everyone who studies it, professionally or otherwise. Anthropology inherently acknowledges that each ethnicity is different, and that those differences should be demystified and honoured. For the purpose of integration, ethnic appreciation, and antidiscrimination.

You are of the opinion that commemoration and study of different ethnicities is racism. Why you believe that is beyond me, but nonetheless, what you are insinuating is the equivalent of saying "i dont see race". I hope i do not have to point out the issue there...

You will also likely not read the entirety of this, either. It is unfortunately 820 words, which is beyond your limit. That is okay. Im here to tell everyone else that your background and culture is deeply appreciated. If it were within my capabilities, i would love to speak to every one of you and represent you within someone you hold dearly. That is my goal. I hope to continue upholding that with my art. I hope to continue doing thorough research to help aid peoples solidarity and interest in characters.

[disawakenings]

Rules & General Guide (mobile)

      this may be updated as needed; excluding when i just nitpick the wording/fix typos etc, i will announce the changes. thank you for reading through.

NOTE:

THE MUN AND THE MUSE ARE BOTH OVER THE AGE OF 21, AND REQUIRE THAT ONLY MUNS OF THE SAME MINIMUM AGE INTERACT. This rp blog will heavily pertain to darker themes, and may not be for the squeamish.

The Basics

Canons from fandoms and OCs are both welcome. I will be selective in following back, especially with highly active multimuse blogs. If I don’t follow back you’re more than free to send asks and respond to opens IC. I might continue our threads, but mutuals will be prioritized and threads with non-mutuals will be shorter.

Feel free to post starters or IC banter at me, toss something in my askbox, etc. whenever you like. Inform me if you do so just in case I miss it; and yes, by all means plot OOC with me! No need to ask permission or apologise to drop in my IMs, the door is open my friend.

I don’t expect people to match my post length. It can range from a sentence or two to a novella. If you’ve a preference in length, be it short or long, do let me know.

Courtesy, OOC Conflict, Etc.

If I decline something you suggest to me (such as a plot or a meme you send in, a relationship dynamic) and you nag me to change my mind or anything similar, I will not appreciate you for it. If you worry I’ve forgotten or lost interest in a thread, be kind and ask me. If it’s not fault of memory it is likely a simple lack of muse, or motivation.

Don’t godmod, don’t metagame, blah blah blah. Common courtesy and all that shit. No hostility or passive aggression, no drama. Be straightforward with me. If I’ve done something to upset you or you have genuine criticisms, I want to hear them crystal clear.

I will avoid engaging in callouts though will observe the situation for my own. I do not condone purity culture and consider it extremist. If you have any grievance with me, please just communicate with me. Be straightforward and actually talk with me through the problem. I’m tired.

Romance, N.S.F.W. Content

I am open to shipping, but I ask we discuss it OOC beforehand and write out the development IC. And know ahead of time that Revelation is not in a state of mind or circumstance to be a good/healthy partner. It will be a drag if you’re here for instant cuddles and steamy times. I like writing relationships that are complicated if not outright toxic, but I’m also soft for warm and fluffy romance as well. Variety is what makes the soup taste good. And patience.

Intimate relations will be awkward on Revelation’s end. Do not expect my explicit writing to be highly graphic, or to solely focus on said graphic content. I will still focus highly on the behaviour, psychology, and chemistry of/between muses.

Mun Activity, Disclaimers, Etc.

I will not always be active, due to IRL matters, chronic disabilities, and sometimes I’m just not in the mood for a certain muse or even rping in general. Feel free to remind me about our threads etc. but again please don’t pester or guilt me. It will not spark the muse back alight.

 I welcome constructive criticism and advice, and am more than happy to offer my own if asked. To learn and to teach is a wonderful thing. Let’s tend one another’s creative gardens.

I am comfortable writing most any kind of serious/heavy concepts, any and all of which I try to approach with tact. I understand that you may have different limits and boundaries in this matter.

Note that any scenarios, and character mindset/beliefs/actions/etc. are meant (if meant for anything significant) to inquire and speculate the nature of humanity and the universe as a whole. I explore this far more deeply in my personal writing than roleplay because it is easier that way to be avoided by those who do not want to consume such stories. It may be delved into to some degree here of course, so again I warn that this muse may not be for hearts that feel the hurt strongly.

That’s a lot of serious blather, I swear on my LIFE that I love love love lighthearted scenarios and comedy as well! In fact I kind of thrive on blanketing all the doom and gloom with hilarity. Revelation might not be aware it’s comedy though.

Common Tags for TS ( will be “#[word] tw” i.e. “#bunnies tw”):

If you need anything not listed above tagged, please let me know. The list will be added to as needed. Bolded are topics that will be delved heavily into regardless of how often, italics mean it will/may be frequent. Both means Beware! Look Out, Oh Shit It’s Everywhere!!

Anonymous Asks

As with my feelings on conflict between muns please be courteous. If you are upset, angry, or hurt by anything I have done or said, I want to meet on equal ground, no weapons of the word needed from either party.

I do not want to turn off anon. I understand the fear of backlash without that privacy. If it is repeatedly proven that it cannot be used in a reasonable and peaceful manner, I will revoke that privilege. Please, I implore all, be communicative, not combative. We can be better at building than breaking.

     If you have any questions, want to establish a plot or IC connections, my askbox and messages are open. 💙

I don’t require you send me like a cryptically-specific message to prove you read the rules, I trust you to locate and read through either the desktop or mobile version of this.

                                              But you Should send me spiders.

                                                                                                      For good luck.

[crunchyharold]

harold fetishizes leshawna pretty much from the get go, their first interaction is him saying that he’s never seen someone “like her” before and that she’s “big and loud” which is. gross. he also gets a massive borderline obsessive crush on her while barely even knowing her b/c they were on different teams and sends love notes that are, according to chef, “spicy”. it’s heavily implied that he’s only so interested in her because she’s black, esp the way he refers to her he mentions her butt a lot.

and im fairly sure leshawna knows this?? because after they have their whole moment on the dock when he’s eliminated she tells him that they are not dating and will not be dating. but it’s complicated. she does still say stuff from time to time to suggest she likes him (”i think that’s just the way with men- not you harold <3″ in her song about alejandro) but is still generally apathetic to his approaches. im fairly sure she admits to liking him but not wanting to date him in an aftermath show?? which seems to me that she genuinely likes him, but knows that he doesn’t like her for the right reasons and therefore doesn’t want to indulge him

which is sad.

so canon lesharold is deeply flawed and very Not Great, but i think it can be fixed fairly simply just by having them Have An Actual Honest Conversation. harold calls chris out on cultural appropriation in wt so i honestly think that he could see the error of his ways and work on his deeply ingrained racism once it’s pointed out to him. but considering how they are in canon i completely get why people dislike the ship and anything to do with it because like, i get it.

lesheather is an entirely different thing. but really depends how much u wanna deviate from canon imo.

https://www.tumblr.com/real-total-drama-takes/721621638790217728/is-lesharold-redeemable-please-discuss-same-goes

Genuine question - what makes lesharold irredeemable? haven’t rewatched the show in a hot minute, so I’m genuinely asking bc I can’t remember any of their interactions besides Harold being whipped. i do get why lesheather is debatable though.

.

[reallifesultanas]

Homosexuality in the Ottoman Empire

So I got several asks about homosexuality in the Ottoman Empire on Tellonyme. There is one, to which i gave the fullest answer I know: “Do you have sources which are about Homosexuality in the Ottoman Empire? I mean for example when the Sultans had male slaves and sexual intercourse with them and how the Ottoman Empire in general treated homosexuality and if it was respected and accepted?”

First of all there is two very good works about the topic, which I trul recommend to someone who is deeply interested in this. One of them is article about it by Stephen O. Murray - Homosexuality in the Ottoman Empire. Its 17 pages long so not that much, if you are interested, read it. Secondly  there is a whole doctoral thesis about the topic which I was not able to get yet, but here is the author and title maybe you can find it: Sodomy and human difference: Nailya Shamgunova- Sodomy and human difference: Anglophone conceptualisations of Ottoman male same-sex activity, c.1590-1700. (PS I requested the full-text pds but didnt get any access to it yet :( If anyone has it please share, Im curious how it is.)

But I will write a conclusion here also, so people who are not that deeply interested can find some information here. 

We have to separate pederasty and normal homosexual relationships. The first article I suggested is mostly about pederasty because that's what was common. But what is pederasty?  Pederasty or paederasty is a sexual relationship between an adult man and a pubescent or adolescent boy.  The meaning in a more general term is young boys (not officially kids but something like 12-20) + adult men (old men actually or high class officer) having sexual relationship. They based in on the ancient Roman and Greek traditions: One man can only find intellectual partner in anoher man (woman were only good for making babies....) and it went so far that "some poets maintained that only with a boy, one could have the best sexual experience." In ancient Greece it was totally common and normal among politicians and soldiers and then it became accepted in the Ottoman Empire too, especially after the conquest of Constantinapole. Ottomans took some of the Greek culture for example pederasty. Pederasty was was common among pashas/nobles/high class men and slave boys. They followed the ideology of ancient Romans: Homosexual behaviors at Rome were acceptable only within an inherently unequal relationship; male Roman citizens retained their masculinity as long as they took the active, penetrating role, and the appropriate male sexual partner was a prostitute or slave, who would nearly always be non-Roman.

Here is an example for pederasty among pashas: Nevşehirli Damat İbrahim Paşa was dedicated a very homoerotic poem by the poet Ahmed Nedim, one of the greatest of the Tulip Era. Nedim had very influential patrons from Ahmed III himself to İbrahim Paşa and the Lord High Admiral. This Nedim usually valued the beards of beloveds in poets. So even though Turkish (even modern and back then Ottoman Turkish) doesn't have female and male form for words - sometimes its hard to decide reading a poem as if its for same-sex or not - sometimes its crystal clear that they are talking about men. I mean probably they did not wrote poems of women’s beard. Here is one quote from Nedim: "compared to a beard, the eyelashes and waist of the beloved, as thin as a hair, have no value" and "only his beard has captured me." Sprouting a beard has typically been the point at which young males cease to be attractive in Muslim as in other pederastic poetic traditions. The beard is a sex-linked attribute. Similarly, given the total depilation practiced by Turkish women, Nedim's ardent exclamation in another poem "from hair to hair, 1 consider every part of your body kissable" can only be directed at an adult male.

And we even know cases when a Damat (husband of sultan’s daughter) was gay: There were simply homosexual people also, there are known cases when in the harem girls became lovers (maybe they were just lonely though not lesbians) and there are pashas who were well knownly gay like the first husband of Fatma Sultan (Süleyman I's sister). We all know the story about it, but if you don’t here it is: Yavuz Selim I married Fatma Sultan in 1516 to the governor of Antalya, Mustafa Pasha. The marriage was not happy at all. Fatma begged her father in a letter to let her return home because “I have fallen into the hands of someone who treats me worse than a dog. Since coming here, I have not had a single hour of happiness, I have donned none of my robes. I have risen from the dead like a widow…. My sultan, dear father, let me wear cloth of coarse wool instead of the cloth of rudeness, let me eat barley bread, just let me live in your shadow". As it turned out, Fatma’s husband was homosexual and showed more interest into men and boys than into Fatma, so of course no child was born out of the marriage. In any case, they eventually divorced. Anyway, homosexuality of the pasha was so normal that Selim I didn’t bet an eye to the pasha’s behavior and while he let Fatma to divorce him (or maybe she only could divorce when Süleyman asceded it’s not clear), the pasha kept his position and title. 

And pederasty was common in the Janissaries as well... Among the Janissaries it was something like back in the days in Sparta: young boys became men if they became lover of older soldiers.

And what about Sultans? Even Mehmed II kept the young son of Greek/Byzantine noble, Lucas Notaras in his palace for sex. Lukas Notaras was executed after the conquest along his son-in-laws, uncles, male cousins and his sons. Only his 14 years old handsome son, Jakob was spared and taken to the palace of Mehmed. He stayed there until 1460 when he managed to escape and left to Italy. In Italy he was reunited with his sisters who left Contantinapole before the conquest. It is also said that Mehmed was in love with a Romanian noble (Radu). A Byzantine chronicler, Laonikos Chalkokondyles, said that Mehmed and Radu III the Beautiful (brother of Vlad the Impaler) were lovers and spent “days and nights together”. According to him, Mehmed once tried to kiss him against his will so Radu wounded his thigh and climbed up on a tree to hide from the sultan’s wrath. We don’t know what happened next but the chronicler recorded that the prince was again high in favour. Very possibly Mehmed II was both gay and using pederasty especially knowing his relationship with his female consorts. 

And were there any other sultans to be gay or perform pederasty beside Mehmed II? There is a story of Evliya about Murad IV. The point of Evliya’s story is that they talked to the sultan about a beautiful person, Handan, who the sultan loves and who Evliya says is really charming also. According to the story, the sultan asked Handan to take a rose from his/her hair and give it to Evliya to cheer up the grumpy Evliya. There would be basically nothing special about the story if it all happened in a Western empire. However, knowing the customs of the Ottoman Empire, it becomes clear to us that Handan could not have been a woman, since a harem concubine could not be in the company of foreign men, especially not with uncovered hair. It also makes it difficult to accurately recognize Handan that the name ‘Handan’ is a unisex name and that there is no male or female gender in the Ottoman language so we cannot know if Evliya talks about a he or a she. Because of this, many people think that Handan was a eunuch or a young man. Also Murad IV: For example, in his description of his life at the palace page school, Evliya Çelebi wrote of his experience of replacing Musa Çelebi, according to Evliya a favourite of Murad IV, who was murdered by the sultan’s former tutor. The sultan composed several poems, varsağı, about his beloved Musa, including the following, which he subsequently regretted and banned from being performed in the sultan’s presence. The sultan wrote of Musa: “The mouth of the beloved hints at the hidden mystery. / When he begins to speak, he hints at the magic of eloquence.” In Evliya’s account the sultan refers to Musa as dilber and mahbub, words often interchangeably used to describe a male beloved. Evliya wrote directly that he was there to ‘replace’ Musa. Evliya pointedly never refers to himself as a dilber. Even if the relationship between the sultan and Musa was not sexual and if Evliya’s role at court did not go beyond that of a boon companion, this episode still shows Evliya’s unease at even hinting at being in the position of a ‘beloved’. 

In the brothels there were feminine gay prostitutes also they were called köçek and were not simple prostitutes but more than that. A köçek would begin training around the age of seven or eight and would be considered accomplished after about six years of study and practice. A dancer's career would last as long as he was beardless and retained his youthful appearance. They were recruited from among the ranks of the non-Muslim subject nations of the empire, such as Jews, Romani, Greeks.  They performed to a particular genre of music known as köçekçe, which was performed in the form of suites in a given melody and so the boy danced. These boys often wearing heavy makeup, would curl their hair and wear it in long tresses under a small black or red velvet hat decorated with coins, jewels and gold. Their usual garb consisted of a tiny red embroidered velvet jacket with a gold-embroidered silk shirt, shalvar (baggy trousers), a long skirt and a gilt belt, knotted at the back. They were said to be "sensuous, attractive, effeminate", and their dancing "sexually provocative". Dancers minced and gyrated their hips in slow vertical and horizontal figure eights, rhythmically snapping their fingers and making suggestive gestures. Often acrobatics, tumbling and mock wrestling were part of the act. The köçeks were sexually exploited, often by the highest bidder.  Some of these dancing boys became extremely famous and were the cause of many jealous fights, especially among Janissaries in the taverns. When they boys lost their looks and their beards began to grow they abandoned their dancing and became drummers and trainers to the dancing boys... A group of these dancing boys was attached to the Palace. 

Did pederasty thing changed with time? Yes it did, and here I wan’t to go back tö köçeks. When the köçeks danced, men would go wild, breaking their glasses, shouting themselves voiceless, or fighting and sometimes killing each other vying for the opportunity to rape, molest, or otherwise force the children into sexual servitude. In 1805, there were approximately 600 köçek dancers working in the taverns of the Turkish capital and these situations with wild men went to general. They were outlawed in 1837 due to fighting among audience members over the dancers. With the suppression of harem culture under Sultan Abdulaziz (1861–1876) and Sultan Abdul Hamid II (1876–1908), köçek dance and music lost the support of its imperial patrons and gradually disappeared.

After the law? Everything changed? Kinda yes. In a much-quoted document submitted to Abdülhamid II, sultan from 1876 to 1909, the historian and statesman Ahmed Cevdet Pasha wrote:Woman-lovers have increased in number, while boy-beloveds have decreased. It is as if the People of Lot have been swallowed by the earth. The love and affinity that were, in Istanbul, notoriously and customarily directed towards young men have now been redirected towards girls, in accordance with the state of nature. The decline in pederasty was, of course, salutary. However, the change also heralded the advent of Western-influenced heteronormativity in Ottoman society, and of the repression it inevitably entails.

So all in all its hard to separate pederasty, prostitutes and normal homosexual relationships from each other as sometimes the border was very thin. In general it seems like that people did not really care about normal homosexuality it was a private thing. “[...]This does not mean that adult homosexual and homoerotic relationships were unheard-of or even that they were universally condemned. However, they were part of the private life of individuals and, like sexual relations with one's spouse, were not appropriate subjects for art or polite public conversation.”

[pumpkinpaix]

this is gonna sound so harsh but im legit tired of chinese diaspora people who think that bc they are of chinese descent and they have pleco they can act like voices of authority in the fandom. if modao is the 1st chinese book you have read pieces of with a dictionary, if you have never interacted with the actual chinese fandom, you are not part of the intended audience and your biased opinion is not the One And Only Valid Truth 🍵

strongly agree | agree | neutral | disagree | strongly disagree | this is really hard for me to express in terms of an agree/disagree axis lol

genuinely cannot tell if you’re trying to shade me here anon lmao 😂

this got long and rambly (of course) asldkjfslj. i would love to make the excuse that it’s bc i’ve got a migraine and had No Sleep but. let’s be real i’m always like this.

ok i’ll start with where i agree: i don’t think anyone has the right to act like an ultimate voice of authority in fandom. i think different people with different backgrounds have varying realms of expertise and they should be respected when they share that knowledge, but that the instant someone starts to use that kind of power as a weapon against people they personally don’t like, i think they forfeit that privilege. no one has the one and only valid truth about a piece of media because that’s fundamentally impossible. i have definitely interacted with diaspo who behave like their heritage gives them some kind of incontrovertible authority over everyone else, and they’re fucking insufferable and often rather cruel, even/especially towards other diaspo. meet me in the denny’s parking lot and fight me for real. i’ll kick ur ass. >:c

however, I also think it’s true that there’s a lot of dismissal of heritage fans in this fandom, if that makes sense, from both sides of the equation: non-Chinese fans ignore our cultural hangups because they’re inconvenient, and non-diaspora disdain us for being not Chinese enough. that puts a lot of us in a position of feeling disrespected just for being who we are, or having our very real knowledge and unique experience as individuals devalued because of it.

regardless of my identity, I have formally studied a lot of things: literary translation, media analysis, the politics of oppression, film critique, religious studies, philosophy, four foreign languages etc. and that is all knowledge that I had to work for, and work hard for. I do have a certain measure of authority on all of these subjects over a layperson (to varying degrees), and there are going to be times when i will be more correct than someone who disagrees with me -- but I’ve also absolutely experienced people talking over that specialized knowledge because of who I am, which is, to be clear. extremely infuriating and hurtful. like, i have cried so much about it in the last 18 months. people see my racial and cultural identity before they see anything else, which is understandable to a degree, but upsetting when it becomes the basis for how my work is judged, whether positive or negative. i don’t want you to trust me blindly because i’m abc. I want to you to trust me because you have examined my work critically and judged it to be trustworthy!

so i guess this is getting into the strongly disagree part of the answer: i’ve been speaking a lot with other diaspora fans lately, and it’s been simultaneously hugely relieving and also really saddening. relieving because oh thank god someone else Gets It, and saddening because pretty much all of us, no matter what kind of diaspo we are (north american, european, SEA, taiwanese etc), we’ve all experienced a lot of pressure in this fandom, from non-Chinese, Chinese, and other diaspora fans alike. we’re all acutely aware that we are not modao’s intended audience because being diaspora vs being “from the mainland” or whatever, are actually quite different things, but modao still feels close to home. even if it was not written FOR us it is still familiar to us.

and, because so many of us are multilingual and multicultural, we end up being the bridge between the “actual” chinese fandom and the english-speaking fandom, which is largely made up of non-chinese. (sidenote: I hate it when people say things about being “actually” any identity because it’s almost always for the exact reason you brought up: to use heritage as street cred. it’s like damn, being “actually” chinese doesn’t make ur opinions any less rank. sure you might be “actually” chinese, but do you have basic reading comprehension and literary criticism skills? no? ok then sit your ass back down) many of us are most comfortable in english! so we produce our content in english! but we also DO often have a somewhat privileged access to the culture that underlies mdzs and can explain it in a language that other non-Chinese fans can understand. so it’s not surprising that people flock to us for answers to their cultural questions. and like. if we think we know the answer, it’s natural for us to try and help. this is fandom! we’re here to have fun and find community! and it is definitely a little bit nice to have my culture treated as something desirable for once instead of just like. a weird exotic curiosity that no one really cares too deeply about. and, since a lot of us are able to do things that non-Chinese fans can’t (research in chinese, for example. ask family members for help and more information etc.) we end up just having more information to share.

I think this sometimes results in a tendency for fandom at large to put heritage/diaspo fans on pedestals and tout them as authorities (or use our conflicting viewpoints as ammunition in fandom drama) when the diaspo in question have repeatedly stated that they should not be taken as authorities on something -- and then, once you reach critical mass, your reputation starts to precede you, and I think there’s a lot of misconceptions of how a lot of diaspo act in this fandom simply because of that phenomenon. most of us know that we’re not ultimate arbiters of some kind of cultural gateway, and it can be very tiring both to be treated as such when we insist we are not, and then punished by other people who assume that we acted like we were.

i don’t think there’s a benefit in trying to keep en fandom and cn fandom totally separate, and I also think it’s unfair to consider the cn fandom the “real” fandom. i think that way lies deeper misunderstandings, gatekeeping, etc. i think we can definitely acknowledge the differences between them, but i think trying to make meaningful connections between fandom circles is really valuable! i don’t think i’ve ever made it a secret that modao is my first cmedia fandom? so it’s also the first time i’ve had reason to interact with chinese fandom, which has been super enlightening and interesting! i’ve made some super cool friends and learned a lot about how fandom works in china, how it’s similar and how it differs from the fandom i’m familiar with.

and then, kind of circling back around, there’s also a bit of a sense like, okay, so if diaspo don’t belong in the CN fandom, but we can’t talk about our own culture with some degree of confidence in EN fandom, then like..... where do we go...? if we see EN fandom doing something that contradicts our cultural knowledge, do we just. not say anything? do we not count unless we’ve already ingratiated ourselves to CN fandom? that’s probably where the core of my strong disagreement comes from, because criticism of diaspora fans as like, acting above their station so to speak, feels just like a tired continuation of the same shit we’ve had to deal with for our whole lives, being told we’re not good enough for anywhere and that we should just be quiet and keep our heads down and get over it. that our opinions, despite coming from a unique perspective with a unique relationship to the subject in question, are less valid or real than “actual” chinese people, you know? and sometimes i see that and im like lmfao just sneer at me for being jook-sing and leave then if you’re so eager to think of me as lesser.

so yeah, basically im of a few minds: true! diaspora fans don’t get to throw their weight around just because they’re diaspo. they don’t get carte blanche to act like bullies or try to shape the fandom to their own personal liking and crusade against people who disagree with them. they don’t get to pretend their heritage makes them superior to everyone else, and i think western diaspora especially need to be careful when asserting any kind of moral lens over the text to acknowledge that we have our own biases to interrogate. i am not immune.meme etc. on the other hand, this vein of criticism tends to put all diaspo in a bit of a double-bind, and also, however unintentionally, plays into the general, continuous trend of dismissing diaspora for being diaspora, and i’m really not about that. i don’t think that’s the motivation behind opinions like this, but i do think that when the basis for the argument hinges on the idea that diaspora are not “real” chinese, no matter how much I too have beef with certain diaspora fans, the argument needs to be revisited. 

(ko-fi)

🍵 ((un)popular) opinions meme

[plounce]

I think I said this in the tags if my reblog but it still makes me so happy and is oddly validating that I got Oddball/Repressed on your quiz considering two of the examples are some of my favorite pairings, in my mind Ive always just referred to it as Autistic 4 Autistic

back when i was still internally debating over What Was Up With Me i just called the whole thing The Brainweird since "neurodivergent" felt so clinical to me (not that it doesn't feel good for others, it's just my subjective experience) (ive since grown comfortable with being a fairly introverted inattentive-type-adhd-haver who loves to perform, but the label of 'autistic' has comforted me greatly over the last five years, and i give a lot of thanks to my cousins in the autism community, because the overlap between adhd and autism traits allows for a lot of commiserating, and i have Tinges that make me go like Autism ♥ to myself).

(paragraph break bc i rambled) it's the brainweirdiest archetype imo and allows for a lot of examination of like... social constructions. both in terms of cisheterosexuality and in brainweird and even just other cultural mores. and making one of the characters autistic (or autism-coded) (the oddball) allows for like... an easier way to crack open how silly social rules are. like that whole thing about how yeah it IS significant that many autistic people have dabbled in Gender/No Gender because the social rules just don't MATTER and don't MAKE SENSE and that's what a lot of gender is! so i think autistic characters are great for exploring a lot of themes that i find super interesting. and the thing about the repressed one is that i always really enjoy the like... detangling of repression that can ensue.

like with rictor/shatterstar i really enjoy when people explore the theme of deeply closeted rictor accidentally teaching star internalized homophobia due to star observing how rictor acts, and the realization that he is hurting star through this helping him heal himself? this fic knocks me on my ass. btw shatterstar is the most autistic character of all time

i am not even sure if i am actually answering your question. tl;dr im glad you liked my quiz and im glad that archetype spoke to you!!!! we need to advocate for the efficacy of autistic people in love stories!!!!!!

[not-equippedforthis]

yeah, what?

star trek at its core, at its premise (and yes this does include tos) is left-wing. in tos this can be quite hamfisted at times, its not perfect and it does have its fair share of issues, but the key messages are very much not?? right-wing?? the whole show is based on finding and making contact with new communities. its the 'leave your bigotry in your quarters, theres no room for it on the bridge.' its the ''a woman?' 'a crewman.'' its the 'go slow and make sure shes interested all the way', its the entire pro-choice allegory episode (yeah, very....right wing?? what), its the several episodes that are dedicated to 'war and fascism and eugenics is awful and our greatest hope for change is to leave them behind and work for peace and community between cultures,' which yeah, no shit, but its a 1960s show that the cold war era influenced so much and the anti-war stance is at the core of it because of that. for the time period, the messages were hamfisted and at times contradictory but the intent was there. the show is about peace and optimism for a better future, at its core. looking at that and analysing it is crucial.

also, telling people not to engage in a piece of media anymore because it was progressive at the time but is now problematic is...the opposite of media literacy? finding nuance in old media and understanding why things are problematic and what impact that media had is. the whole point of media literacy. also, prime example: classic literature?? there are so many literary works that have deeply problematic elements that we still celebrate as good books because we're able to acknowledge both the good and the bad, and the important part IS to acknowledge it. you cant just shove that under a rug. looking at tos from the 60s and watching it and, whilst enjoying it, analysing why its now problematic is key!! you have to be able to look at that to learn from it!! people can do both!! you cant just shove that shit under a rug and tell people not to watch it at all omd

yes, tos is problematic: its a show from the 60s, it has its fair share of sexism and racism and there are a few episodes (looking at you turnabout intruder) that whilst having good elements are also...really bad as a concept. the whole implication of women being wrong and unfit for demanding equal power rights? yuckk. it was progressive for the 60s in parts but doesnt hold up now anymore. but, many things like having lots of female characters in STEM and the mini skirts were considered liberating at the time! the entire pro-contraception allegory, not to mention said by kirk, the main character of the show, a man! hamfisted, yes, but the whole point is to look at that and analyse the intent, and how weve moved on from that. you can still...enjoy the show. pretending like its not there isnt gonna solve anything. saying 'dont watch it cause its bad end of' is not. media literacy.

also people like it cause. listen. a lot of it plot-wise is bad. not in a problematic way, but just bad in the way that a 60s show with no budget is bad. its entertaining as fuck. the stupid little boots?? the fight scenes?? the crazy ass noncensical plots and editing?? bless. the colourful sets, the really stupid episodes (that whole really usa patriotic episode (the omega glory) was fucking awful but goddamn was it Something to watch. sobbing). but, it is a good show. it has good episodes. the character writing and dynamics are actually insanely well written sometimes (i could talk about that for houurss). people like it for a reason!! also yeahhh people are mean to spock i wont contradict that 😭 (but then they break 9 federation laws and hijack and blow up a ship just to get him back from the dead. and then kirk says not doing so would be 'at the cost of his soul'. and then in the original script mccoy sobs his heart out at his funeral. so. shit man)

also also, im not surprised tos is still hugely popular cause it did kickstart modern fandom. looking at how this show developed so many communities and made such a massive cultural impact is really interesting.

youre allowed to dislike tos btw. there are several reasons why youd be entirely correct to do so. hell, its important for any fan of it even to recognise the bad parts of it and why they're bad. but its the 'you people have no media literacy you cant watch this show' thats flooring me.

also. amok time is a Thing. i think that speaks for itself, tumblr wise

tldr: tos is problematic, yes, but the entire message its trying to convey is very left-wing and telling people to plain-old not watch it is not. media literacy.

The fact that people like TOS more than any of the other Star Trek series is proof that the general population has no media literacy, and that nostalgia is one of the biggest driving forces of the media we consume.

TOS is sexist, racist, and just plain bad. I grew up on it, but watching it as an adult has been genuinely terrible. The women wear less and less clothing each episode and the men constantly dismiss and interrupt the women. The plots are just... nonsensical, to say the least. People promised me subtle gay chemistry between Spock and Kirk, but everyone is just mean to Spock! It's painful to watch!! It's genuinely not a fucking shock that this show got cancelled! It sucks!

The only good things about the show are the unique music, the adorable sets, and vaguely anti-religious themes (except those few times the crew of the Enterprise is explicitly Christian). There are no other redeeming qualities.

I don't want to shame people for liking TOS... but come on, people! This is Tumblr! Why do people like this show!? It's such a right-wing show!!

Moral of the post: Stop watching TOS, go watch Enterprise. The 1st episode sucks, but the rest of it is some of the best fiction I've ever seen. Don't believe me? Watch season 2 episode 23.

[creampievampire]

Could you go into the difference between the subtext and queerbaiting in it, I'm still kind of -well it's obviously gay but nothing was really ever said or shown that says that expect for people talking about it- Like are the characters and their relationship just queer-coded (positivly ofc lol) but the baitiness comes from them sort of confirming it off the show?

of course! im assuming by ‘it’ you mean merlin, but rather than explaining the reasons why i think bbc merlin is a matter of subtext (or queer coding) and not queerbaiting, i think it would be easier and more productive to explain the difference between the two in general. they are very similar - which is why i think a lot of people are unable to tell the difference between them - but they have important differences

just a warning, this is going to be a LONG post lmao ive bolded exactly what each term means below, after which i go into more detail on the whole issue. this is something im passionate about so,,, ♥

queerbaiting specifically refers to a marketing technique in which creators hint at but dont actually depict a queer character or relationship. They do this in order to attract a queer audience with the suggestion of a character or relationship they can relate to, while also avoiding alienating their queerphobic audiences

queer coding is the subtextual coding of a character as queer through the use of things like metaphor, allegory, hinting, recognisable traits/stereotypes/experiences, etc. This is done to build believable characters and create more complex plot lines, and it is also regularly used by people who want to tell queer stories but are unable to do so explicitly. it CAN be used negatively to enforce damaging stereotypes, but that is just a small part of its usage

both of these things utilise subtext in order to work. subtext is not only a crucial part of the creation of any piece of media, but is impossible to avoid.

an example of the most basic types of subtext is when a character tells someone that everything is going to be okay, but you can tell they dont believe it. or when youre watching a story unfold and you suddenly connect the dots and realise whats going to happen before its explicitly stated - you used subtext and the hidden meanings and hints to figure it out!

the people involved w a piece of media create their story with a specific purpose or meaning in mind, and they construct the subtext of the story to reflect that purpose/meaning. HOWEVER, the viewers dont always see things the same!

your experiences and personality shape the way you view and interpret every piece of media you consume. if you hate cops youll see the insidious undertones in cop shows - if you grew up with an abusive parent youll see the biting implications in a characters dialogue that others find innocent - if youre queer you will search for and fine queer characters everywhere, regardless of the creators intentions

now, both queerbaiting and queer coding use subtext to function, right? so how do you know which is being used and whether or not its a bad thing? its all about intention

to give a specific explanation of the difference im going to use two examples that are (arguably) very similar in the way their queer characters became canon

example 1: adventure time featured the characters marceline and princess bubblegum, who have been forever depicted as a couple in fan content. their interactions in the show were read into and latched onto bc we saw ourselves in them and we saw it as positive queer rep. but their relationship was never explicitly discussed during the course of the show and was only confirmed at the end of the final episode.

that makes 10 seasons in which their relationship existed only in subtext, and when it did finally exist in canon it was only for a few minutes, if that.

example 2: supernatural featured the characters dean and castiel (lol) who have been depicted as a queer couple pretty much since the first episode cas appeared in. i personally hung on their every interaction, analysed every glance between them, bc i interpreted deans character as a parallel to my own childhood trauma.

cas joined the show in season 4, so that makes 11 seasons in which him being gay existed only in subtext, and when it was confirmed he was immediately cut out of the show. the exact nature of dean and castiels relationship still remains in subtext.

so why is it that adventure time is widely considered perfectly fine but supernatural is dunked on as being the poster boy for queerbaiting?

its bc adventure time involved queer creators and was an earnest representation of queer characters, but they were boxed in by their publisher, Cartoon Network and thus the only way for the relationship to exist in the show was through subtext.

supernatural, however, consistently neglected their queer character and employed transparent tropes and stereotypes - bringing him in just sparingly enough to keep queer audiences interested while never being gay enough to alienate their macho manly man queerphobe audiences. they would have dean and cas stare into each other eyes for a full 30 seconds and then almost immediately follow it up with an episode about dean banging a disposable female character.

so imho adventure time falls under queer subtext, and supernatural falls under queerbaiting

when it comes to a show like bbc merlin i see a lot of debate about whether or not its queer coding or queerbaiting, and my intention is not to convince you of either. merlin was very much a product of its time, and i have argued the same about seasons 4-6 of supernatural as well, before the queerbaiting escalated and became exhausting to me

the purpose of this post is to start giving you the information you need to analyse any piece of media and come to your OWN opinion as to whether or not its queerbaiting or whatever else

people will ALWAYS have differing opinions about this shit yall. i have debated so many times w so many people about where the line is and whats okay and what should be ‘cancelled’ and if consuming something deemed problematic makes you a bad person or not

and my conclusion?

if youre capable of acknowledging the flaws and issues w a piece of media without trying to defend it as a shining beacon of purity simply bc you like it, then you do you. enjoy whatever you want to enjoy - if i think its reprehensible i simply will never interact with you lol

at some point everyone has to stop regurgitating these generic woke speak cancel culture speeches and buzzwords and formulate their own opinions

my advice to anyone reading this is to learn how to do close reading (ill provide a link to a wonderful short guide on it in a reblog bc tumblr hates links) and start really considering where you draw the lines with all types of content. decide for yourself whether merlin or supernatural or adventure time crosses the line into content you cant stomach, but respect other people whose interpretations differ from yours

i know a HUGE amount of people think supernaturals confession scene was homophobic and toxic - a slap in the face - but when i watched it i saw myself reflected in dean. a repressed bisexual whose emotions had been stunted by lifelong trauma, who wasnt ready to face his feelings for cas but quickly realising that his chronic avoidance and fear was about to tear them apart possibly forever. to me it was tragic and beautiful, and i loved it

i also think merlin is a tragic and beautiful love story, and to me its a pivotal piece of queer media that changed the way i viewed love and made me believe that it was a possibility for me bc i related so deeply to arthur

i hope that you can draw a satisfying answer from this, anon, and i apologise for this post being a full essay lol but i believe it needed to be said  - i dont think there is a right or wrong answer here

[letteredlettered]

hi! ive been following your writing for a few years now and i drop by periodically to check if you have anything new posted, and im really surprised that you seem to be enjoying the untamed? im curious what you think about the show - its story and characters, the acting, the production, etc. idk if you know, but the untamed is the most successful example of a current trend in chinese entertainment, where popular online novels centered around a gay romance is adapted into a 'safe' drama.

continued:

due to the many explicit and implicit restrictions imposed on creative media in china, many crucial plot points have to be changed (often badly) or removed, including the nature of the relationship between the main characters. the untamed is considered the most loyal adaptation so far, but like all other works in the genre, it received criticism for weak acting and queerbaiting. that's why im really curious about what you think of the show as it is, as itself, free from its context.

if you're interested, you could also check out guardian! it features much better performance and chemistry by the leads imo, but the story was heavily botched bc the original incorporates and reinvents a lot of classic chinese folklore beautifully and stuff like that is considered disrespectful and not-pc. i think it's really sad how so many great pieces of writing with complex world-building and plotlines are simplified into... idek what to call them, but just, less than what they are.

im sorry this turned into a rant. as a mainland chinese person with oh so many frustrations about our current society, it's hard to comprehensively describe my feelings about the untamed's popularity. it's the first mainland chinese show/movie to gain this much organic interest abroad so i should be glad? but, but. anyway, yes, im sorry.

There’s no need to apologize for ranting, but I admit to some confusion as to whether you want your question addressed or the rant. Because I’m me and tend to be thorough, I’ll address everything, in reverse order.

First of all, I’m sorry that this show is sad to you. I’m sorry that the popularity of it is difficult. I’m also deeply sympathetic to your frustrations about your society, as I too am deeply frustrated by my own.

Secondly, yes, I’m aware of the context of The Untamed. I’m aware that the book it’s based on is a BL novel, and that, in order to align with Chinese politics, overt queerness was erased from the adaptation. I’m aware of the censure laws of gay media in China. I’m also aware that some aspects of necromancy and morality were adjusted to make the show more palatable for general audiences, but I’m fuzzier on those details. Lastly, I’m aware that the popularity of the show calls attention to certain things, such as fanfic, and that attention results in more censorship,

The fact of this erasure and this censure provokes a lot of questions: by consuming this product, which contains erasure and censure, do we engage in the erasure and censure? By posting gifs and writing fanfic and talking about this product, do we increase its popularity, thereby encouraging additional erasure and censure? By increasing the popularity of this product, do we diminish the popularity of the original gay morally gray canon, thereby decreasing representation? Do we discourage other authors in China from writing explicitly gay morally gray material? In short, are we allowed to enjoy this media?

I don’t know the answer to these questions. However, I do know that boycott is a very effective tool when it can inflict economic pain on the producer, or when it can exert pressure on an entity to change. That said, I feel like a lot of the calls to boycott certain media these days are a lot like telling people to stop driving their cars to stop climate change: it’s suggesting that individuals can solve the problem, which presupposes individuals are the problem, and therefore fails to address the scope of the problem, or present the possibility of a real solution. Not watching The Untamed isn’t going to change laws about portrayals of homosexuality onscreen in China, partly because the laws in China are a much bigger problem.

The other part of it is that The Untamed is coded queer, so if you run a successful boycott against it, you end up with . . . less queer TV. I know a whole lot less about China than I do about the Hays Code, but if you had told gay people during the Golden Age of Hollywood that they couldn’t enjoy movies that were coded queer because they weren’t explicitly queer, they’d have said you were crazy. In fact, many people will tell you that media that was coded queer was a big reason we got more explicit queer stuff later. And as I’m sure you’re aware, the US is still fighting that battle . . . partly because it wants to sell movies to China.

So then there’s a question about whether me, an American in the US, liking something coded queer from China but not explicitly queer--does that encourage Chinese censorship? Should I only support texts that are explicitly queer? But the answer is the same--it’s not addressing the scope of the problem, and by supporting texts that are coded queer, you could be paving the way in the future for something brighter.

But you weren’t talking about boycott! You were talking about your discomfort with the popularity with this show, which I accept. I understand feeling uncomfortable. I can only hope it makes you a bit more comfortable to know that plenty of fans are deeply aware of the context and do wrestle with the question of what liking this show means in the context of a society that would never allow aspects of the original to be portrayed onscreen.

Thirdly, I’m not against trying Guardian at some point, but by comparing the acting and chemistry of the leads to The Untamed, I feel like you prove our tastes are very different in these regards. I love the acting of the leads in The Untamed; I found their chemistry off the charts. It’s okay you don’t feel the same.

Lastly, you asked my opinion of The Untamed: its story and characters, the acting, the production, sans context of the canon upon which its based and censorship laws in China.

a. I love the overall story, but the plot has deep plot holes. Quite a few segments do not actually make sense to me, because the plot is so haywire. However, I’ve never cared that much about plot, except when it gets in the way of characters and themes, and for the most part, this plot serves its characters and themes, except when the parts they leave out are so confusing that I cannot follow the story. As for the story, it feels like it’s built for me, because ultimately it’s about moral decisions and how to make them; it’s about guilt and paying for mistakes; it’s about learning, changing your mind, and remaking yourself. Really, I’m not sure there are many stories I love more--except they killed my favorite character, and I almost quit. So, that certainly put a damper on things.

b. I love the characters most of all, although the villains are really two-dimensional. However, large parts of the plot are not Hero vs Villain, they’re Hero vs Society, and then some Hero vs Himself in a way that suggests the Hero is no longer a hero. I could talk about the characters forever, but suffice it to say I think they’re really strong. Also, the relationships are really exquisite, particularly when it comes to family dynamics. Unfortunately, they killed my favorite character off. Also unfortunately, there are six women in this show, only two of them are main characters, and every single one of them dies. It disgusts me.

c. I think the two leads are exceptional, in particular Xiao Zhan . . . when he’s not being too broad, which he is quite a bit. However, I do wonder how much of this is direction and production style, because in many instances, he’s quite subtle, and the choices he makes are astounding. Then there are times where it’s like they needed more footage, or wanted to drive home a point, and he turns on the extra, and it’s awful. It could just be him, but I actually feel it’s the case with most of the actors, which does make me think it’s a directing issue. Meng Ziyi never really has that problem though, because she is the most perfect of all. But then take He Peng, who I actually thought could be incredible, but every scene was just SO BROAD that I began to feel sorry for the poor dude having to act that part. But there is nothing to be said for Wang Zhuo Cheng, who really is just terrible, which is sad, because it’s a great part.

d. Production-wise, it’s really hit and miss. So much of the locations are truly beautiful. A lot of the costumes are too, unless the shot is too close. I actually don’t mind the wigs; I love the long hair. The CGI is terrible. And then while a lot of the shots are beautiful, some of them are awkward, and the pacing is really difficult, imo. It really seems like they wanted to drag it out, and there are so, so many scenes where I’m sort of embarrassed that we’re in the same scene or that we’re still looking at someone’s face, or that everyone is just standing there waiting for the shot to finally end.

I will say that film is a language that does differ from culture to culture. It could be that both the broadness of the acting and the awkwardness of the editing are my cultural lens based on American and a lot of western film. When I watched older Hollywood films, the acting is a lot more broad and maybe a little less “true” feeling, but I understand that it’s not the case everyone in the past was a bad actor. It was just a different style, so I’m not sure I’m equipped with the cultural knowledge of Chinese acting, cinematography, and editing to be able to really judge the value of these things.

I do know how I feel, which is that the editing is the biggest hurdle for me while watching the show. However, I feel that the beauty of it makes up for a lot, and the strength of the characters and themes really carries it.

I hope I addressed your points adequately, and I wish you well.

[urmomsstuntdouble]

If ur still doing the 100 followers thing, well I challenge YOU with deciphering Lithuania.

ok anon thank you so much for asking this question because i have in fact recently fallen in love with lithuania, because they are such an interesting character! (also hhhh im so sorry for how late this is) 

Gender

As you may have noticed, I usually use they/them pronouns to refer to Lithuania. I hc them as being nonbinary and using he/they pronouns, though I personally prefer to use they rather than he in that case because. Idk what pronouns you use. But in my experience it’s really hard to get people to call you ‘they’ when you go by ‘he/they’ or ‘she/they’ or smth like that. Though I don't imagine any of the nations are very attached to their “birth gender” (are nations born???), lithuania is one of those who is a bit less attached. They’re just sort of there, in terms of gender. In my headcanons i also think this has something to do with religion, as lithuania was one of the last european countries to convert to Christianity- just because so much of gender as we know it comes from christianity and what people in the 16th and 17th centuries considered a ‘good’ christian. Thats not to say that there are no gender roles in other religions, but that the way westerners typically conceptualize gender has quite a lot to do with the religious conflicts occurring within christianity. Like you can trace the ideas behind the nuclear family archetype back to the protestant reformation. Additionally, I hc them as being Jewish, which further distances them from the western christian gender roles (though that’s not why i hc them as jewish! More on that later). Finally, i just like myself some trans/nb characters. There’s so few popular trans hcs and that makes me kinda sad ya know? Welcome to the trans agenda its just me projecting onto all my faves

Mental Health

Okay, so, i think it’s pretty well known that lithuania’s mental health is wack. They’re often characterised as being a very anxious person, but i think the ways in which they’re anxious is super interesting. For one, they are extremely conflict averse and like to avoid it by being a sort of people pleaser. It’s a sort of defense mechanism, because nobody can hate you if you do whatever they say. Like, if you let people be shitty to you, they won’t hate you for your personality. This is clearly flawed logic because then people are still going to be shitty to you, but. It makes sense to liet. In their mind, it’s okay to let people hurt if your reason is sound enough- Because if they’re not super emotionally engaged in a relationship that’s unhealthy for them, then they can’t get hurt, right? Of course, they can. A good example of this is their relationship with Russia. I think tolvydas sees compliance as necessary there, in order to avoid being hurt. The thing is…compliance is also hurting them, even if they see it as ‘worth it.’ To them, behaving in a submissive way is a survival tactic. A really bad one, but a survival tactic nonetheless. 

This also plays into their tendency to be self-martyring. I think Tolvydas is very good at fighting, and all around a really awesome warrior (strong aragorn energy), which makes them think that they need to be the one to save everyone. Hero complex, sort of. This, coupled with their almost maternal care for Latvia and Estonia, makes them feel like they have a sort of weight-of-the-world on their shoulders. Though Estonia and Latvia do look up to them a lot, Tolvydas can sometimes fail to realise that they are also their own people and can fight their own battles. He feels a sort of obligation to protect them due to their shared culture and languages as The Baltic Trio, though it doesn’t go much further than a sense of obligation. They spent most of their youth fighting, to the extent that that’s most of what Tolvydas personally knows as ‘life,’ but they never actually got to know the other two Baltics very well until the modern day. They have to protect, have to be a caregiver, but they don’t actually know super well the things they’re trying to protect. It’s both a sense of obligation to protect as well as the sense that this is all they’re good at and as long as they’re fighting for a morally just cause, that’ll do. 

I think something that would expose this flaw would be when they were first taken over by the Russian Empire in the 1790s, they were pretty miserable about a lot of things- Like the loss of all their territory and the sudden statelessness of their people- but a big one would’ve been the loss of Poland. This isn’t meant to be super shippy, but you know. They were united into one kingdom, and they had been for centuries, so i don’t imagine it was an easy separation. Though this is more up for debate where real people are concerned, these characters were essentially a big part of each other, ya know? Regardless of how much Lithuania actually likes Poland, they’re still a part of each other and that separation will undoubtedly be painful. Anyway, all that is to say that this separation was at the forefront of their mind during the beginning of the 19th century, and they let it sort of prevent them from taking care of the other Baltics. The issue with that is that they still considered themself to be protecting Estonia and Latvia, even though, in reality, nobody was. Also in reality, Lithuania was making themself out to be the worst off, and were generally sort of annoying to be around at this point in time. Their whole woe-is-me attitude wasn’t fun, and they were hypocritical in that they saw themself as being a better friend than they actually were. They still see themself as being a great friend, and though it’s improved in recent years, they’re still sort of. Flighty, i guess, where friendship is concerned. There was also a lot of annoyance by the other baltics about them being so self-martyring- Tolvydas was Ivan’s favorite, after all (that’s not necessarily a good thing, but. He was softer on them in certain ways). Anyway, I guess the big takeaway of this paragraph is that Liet often lets their self perception cloud the way they act in relationships. 

Much of the stuff I’ve mentioned so far is a result of them having quite a lot of PTSD. I think Lithuania’s character tends to be explored through a few common lenses, those being the medieval vibes of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and through being oppressed by the Russian Empire/Soviet Union. Not to say that there’s not a lot of other content about them, but this is what I see most often. I think that all the nations have some form of PTSD, but with Lithuania it’s very pronounced, and it’s made clear that a lot of their tendencies are a result of past trauma- Like the need to take care of others. This is likely originating with their childhood, as they grew up in a very violent environment where their survival was never guaranteed (survivor’s guilt much?) and violence was just the way of things. This is where the need to protect comes from. There used to be several more Baltic nations, though you could argue that now there’s only two- Lithuania and Latvia, as Estonia does not speak a Baltic language and would really like to be considered Nordic. 

Finally, Lithuania is also an interesting character where forgiveness is concerned. I think their sense of morality is very black and white, so some people (Feliks) will be easily forgiven where others (Ivan) will not. In reality, I think it would definitely be valid for Tolvydas to hate both of them, yet they don't- Because they decided that Feliks was a friend and Ivan was not. Both Feliks and Ivan care very deeply about them, but neither treats Tolvydas in a very good way. Of course, I’m aware that the situation in the Russian Empire/USSR and the Commonwealth were very different, but I’m talking about these three dudes and their relationships with each other beyond the lens of politics. Because Feliks tried to be their friend in a way that didn’t hurt them tremendously, and because. Look at them, Feliks isn’t 5’4 and can’t hurt you. They’re not an intimidating person and they’re not incredibly powerful like Ivan is. Though that’s not all of it- Feliks’ feelings for Tolvydas are definitely a purer, more selfless type of love than what Ivan feels for them- it makes it harder for Tolvydas to hold a grudge against them. Whereas for Ivan, their relationship was about control. He needed to control them as a way of expressing how he felt about them. He represents a lot of what Tolvydas fought against in their youth, so of course they hate him. Of course, I don’t think they like holding grudges. They want to be able to care for everyone, because they know that everyone deserves to be treated well and cared for and all that. You can't exactly do that if you hold a grudge against someone, so it actually kind of sucks for them when they see someone they hate suffering. It’s a sort of conflict of interest- The caregiving instincts vs the hatred for this person- and they often don’t know what to do in that situation. Usually they wind up helping but not happy about it. They just don’t want to see others suffer, despite the fact that they dislike this person (Russia is of course the exception. They don’t want to help him at all anymore). 

Relationship with family

So, this is a bit of an interesting topic. I think the Baltics consider themselves family just because of what they’ve been through together, but they’re not actually blood related. Though they share similar cultures, and languages, they’re just not related. Maybe Lithuania and Latvia are cousins, but yeah. Lithuania sees themself as the head of their little family, as they have the oldest surviving European culture and language. They sometimes get in their head about that, and can act like both a mom friend and a mom who is bad at mom-ing. It’s a sort of self appointed thing, and can be really annoying to the other two. They don’t pay the utmost attention to their fellow Baltics, and are more concerned with physical well being than emotional well being, so, despite establishing themself as a caretaker, do not wind up actually caring for the other Baltics in the ways they need to be cared for. 

Fighting style

So, as I’ve mentioned, Lithuania is a talented fighter. They go hard as shit, and can very much kick your ass. I think they prefer to be very technical about how they fight, with something boring like a broadsword as their weapon of choice, but are not afraid to fight dirty. Like rip off an ear with their teeth kind of playing dirty. I think they take fighting very seriously. Though Lithuania as we know it is only about 800 years old, I think Tolvydas is much older. The definition of a nation (a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory, according to the oxford dictionary) does not require there to be a central governing body, so I think it’s quite possible for Lithuania to be well over 2000. Anyway, all that is to say that they didn’t grow up in medieval times, so by the time they’re like. Achieving dominance in Eastern Europe, they’re already very old and well versed in many different styles of fighting. In the modern day, I think they’ve learned more different fighting styles from other parts of the world, but will always fall back on the way they learned how to fight in ancient times. 

Religion

So as I mentioned earlier, Lithuania is Jewish in my headcanons (orthodox, specifically. I think they're kinda traditional). I have a couple reasons for this- There has been a historical presence of Ashkenazi Jews in Lithuania, going back to the 13th or 14th century, and this is due to certain legal protections granted to Jewish people under pre-Commonwealth law. They were legally on similar footing to the average free people of Lithuania, and were able to create a slightly more prosperous community than Jews in other areas of Europe. This was also affected by the Black Plague of the 1340s. Orthodox Jews tend to put a high value on cleanliness, and often have two sinks in their houses (my childhood home, for example, had two sinks, and i lived in a majority jewish area). They also happened to be concentrated in Eastern Europe, due to the protections. Because of this, Eastern European Jews have some of the highest sruvival rates for the Black Plague and actually brought up the survival rates of the region as a whole- Though this also resulted in some intense antisemitism, as many Christians blamed Jewish people for the plague even happening, due to their higher survival rates. Despite various expulsions  and the loss of legal rights, the Jewish population remained relatively steady up until world war 2. Jewish people made up about 10% of the total population of Lithuania in 1941, and 45% of the total population of Vilnius. (To put this in perspective, the entire world population is only about 0.2% Jewish). Anyway, all this is to say that it’s not out of the question for Lithuania to be Jewish. 

Extras/Fun stuff

Lithuania loves reading, especially the fantasy/fairy tale genre. It makes them nostalgic without the trauma of reading historical fiction. 

They’re also very musically gifted, and can play the piano, bass, ukelele, and flute. 

They wear docs.

They love hot chocolate. 

They remind me of both Aragorn from lotr and Hozier. They’re such a sweet lad. 

Bicon who has like 5 people thirsting for them at a given moment but is either oblivious or not looking for a relationship right now. 

Here are my fics with lithuania as a main character!

My previous character analyses of lithuania (sorry they’re mostly in shipping contexts, rip) and another good analysis someone else did

My playlist for them

and i think thats it! of course i could always talk more about them, but those are my thoughts for now! thank you so much for the ask, i hope i was able to meet your challenge! 

writing requests

[bittercoldbrew]

PLEASE tell me about the alien plant girls im so gay for anthropomorphic fem plants

omg thank you SO MUCH for asking and i apologize in advance for the infodump because i have been thinking about these alien plant people for literal years now, i love them so much. I first started thinking about these guys a little after TFA, because of an oc i was working on for a lil star wars fic that i have mostly abandoned by now--so sorry to the like 3 people who were reading my sidon ithano fic but tlj/tros really killed whatever passion i had for the franchise for a good long time :/ but Mando is great so i've been thinking about them'st again...

anyway i am sticking this under a cut because a) im very attached to these characters and if someone steals my shit i will kermit and b) sweet jesus this got so long, i am so sorry

in the SW universe at least, these plant people (that i still for the life of me cannot settle on an actual name for) were the primary inhabitants of a dwarf planet way out in wild space; they had a pretty symbiotic relationship with a race of sentient insectoid people (basically human-sized bees) who could travel between the planet and their home on one of its three moons (affectionately called the Honey Moon). what the plants didn’t know was that the bees were also able to travel to different planets, and had been doing so for a couple centuries before everything went to shit--but we’ll get to that in a bit.

the plant people weren’t particularly interested in the galaxy around them--they had a decent understanding of astronomy and cosmology, but little cultural interest in journeying to the stars. since the planet was pretty small and distant from the galactic core, it was pretty rare that a visiting ship would even pass them by, and scanners didn’t register them as genuine life-forms separate from the natural flora, so even if someone happened to end up out there it’s not the sort of place anyone would really choose to land. on rare occasions, a pirate or smuggler would try to hide out on what they thought to be an unoccupied planet, and would return to the Outer Rim with tales of mobile, sentient trees and bizarre, organic cities found on some uncharted world; likewise, occasionally a plant person would turn up at the local bar with tales of crashed space-ships and strange aliens that seemed almost like people. neither would ever be taken seriously.

the plants aren’t a particularly verbal people. they understand spoken language (a somewhat-modified Basic, at least, which is what the bees speak hmm i wonder where they picked that up from) and many can talk, but most don’t really bother learning to do so. mostly they rely on an ESP-like combo of pheromones and body language, highly attuned to the point that it’s essentially a kind of telepathy. i think i mentioned in the tags on that post that my character Antheia is sorta kinda a jedi? for these people, force sensitivity tends to manifest as an extra-extra-sensory-perception that causes you to be hyperaware of every living thing in your environment, not just the other sentient ones.

this made her uhhh extremely off-putting as a youth, easily distractable and often disinterested in the other people in the small community she grew up in, where she was already pretty disliked to begin with. there’s quite a lot of diversity among the plant people (a wide variety of skin tones/textures and body types, though few if any secondary sex characteristics; four limbs are most common, though occasionally some have two or more sets of arms; different types of leaves/vines/blossoms/etc in lieu of hair), and though they have a barter-based economy there’s still a lot of classism that’s mostly based around lineage (and thus evinced by one’s appearance and the traits one manifests). to protect (or attempt to bolster) those lineages, prospective parents can apply for a spot in a nursery, where their offspring are propagated and tended--mostly just through infancy before going to live with parents, though sometimes longer, and the very high class have private nurseries that will do all the rearing so they don’t have to.

But, on very rare occasions, certain wild plants will spontaneously develop sentience, and even more rarely will survive on their own long enough to find their way to a community. Hundreds of years ago (or “before the bees could speak”, which is their version of “once upon a time”), these spontaneous growths were revered and cherished, and whoever was first to encounter one would see it as a great honor to be responsible for their care and upbringing. now, with a much more striated society, these “weeds” (derogatory) are considered inferior, feral, dangerous. fortunately for Antheia, the man who found her, tangled in marsh reeds under the light of the Honey Moon, didn’t buy into any of that bullshit. he was a really sweet dad, very attentive and doting on his increasingly-strange adopted daughter; they were very close. but the older she got, the more her unusual ability developed, and the more he realized he was well out of his depth to help her understand that part of herself. eventually, she’s sent away to a kind of temple/convent for other people like her, where she’s trained to hone and control her extra senses, rather than be overwhelmed by them.

many years later, the sudden appearance of several large starships in their atmosphere turns their society on its head. it turns out, the bee-people have been traveling to other planets, forging alliances, brokering deals; they claim they just want to facilitate inter-planetary trade. Antheia is among the first to mistrust these invading aliens and their fleet of well-armed droids who seem hell-bent on mining their planet (which is, apparently, rich with cortosis, which--thank you wookiepedia--is apparently capable of repelling lightsabers and blasterfire alike). She flees her convent, joins up with an underground network of resistance fighters, discovers that her hyperawareness makes her a truly formidable force on the battlefield, and helps lead her people in defending the sovereignty of their home. And then things take a turn for the worse...but we don’t need to get into that right now.

ANYWAY.

my other oc, Shoal, is from the same planet but not even remotely star-warsy; either from a different time period well before the droid incursion, or just like an AU of my own stuff, idk. but she’s great, i love her deeply even though i dont really know what i even want to do with her yet. i mostly just was thinking about what a normal, average person in this world would be like, but then i got too attached. she’s also one of the spontaneous “weeds”, a semi-aquatic plant girl that washed up on a sandbar that occasionally connects a small island with the mainland when the tide is out. she was sort of “found” by multiple people at the same time, since they were making their way across to go trade goods at the mainland market, so to avoid the confusion of who should be responsible for her, she’s just sort of raised by the village as a whole. they name her Shoal, since that’s where they found her (it started as a joke, but then no one could agree on anything else to call her so it just sort of...stuck).

she grows up without realizing that it’s a pretty unusual upbringing. as a teen, she gains the reputation for the island’s best fisher (it helps that she can breathe as well underwater as above, and she’s always been a good swimmer). one thing that’s pretty consistent among all the plant people are their teeth--they all have long, sharp incisors and canines because sexy and also as more of a defense mechanism than a dietary one. they don’t eat much, typically absorbing nutrients from the sun/water/air/soil (mud baths are such a beloved experience, like for the most part they are very dignified people but find them some good mud and they will wallow for days) but when they do it’s pretty meat-heavy. they don’t really enjoy the process of eating very much, especially because they don’t have much gut bacteria so they typically have to swallow some stones to break up their food and nobody wants to do all that. but, at least in the coastal towns near where Shoal grew up, fresh-caught fish is considered a delicacy, and they can trade for quite a lot in return.

as she gets older, though, she starts getting restless. she loves her village, but it’s all she’s ever really known. also, it is so hard to even consider dating when literally everyone your age is practically your sibling, i mean, yeesh. so one day she just packs her bags and says her goodbyes and waits for low tide, then sets off to find her own way in the great wide world. she stops wherever she can, sees everything she can, but eventually settles down working at a tavern in a medium-sized town that’s mostly acclaimed for being a crossroads between bigger and better places. she likes it there, likes getting to know lots of new people and hearing about someone else’s travels more than she actually liked traveling herself. after a few years, the tavern-keeper retires and decides to leave the place to her, and she finds she’s become a permanent fixture in this new community. that’s really all i have for her so far, and i have no idea whether i’ll ever actually do anything with this character lol, but still she is very precious to me so i hope i find a story she’d be a good match for sometime soon.

[untamedunrestrained]

The Untamed and Mo Dao Zu Shi

These past eight days have been surreal.

I have drowned so fully in this story that it feels like I am just surfacing.

On Valentine’s Day, fandom on tumblr reblogged this fanart of WangXian by qulfeeh and I was intrigued. The reblog was tagged with two important key words ‘Wangxian’ and ‘The Untamed’. In the brush of a few keystrokes I came across the Wikipedia page for a show known as the Untamed that was available on Netflix. The thing that stood out was that it was based on a BL novel and that both the very male protagonists were described as each other’s soulmates and somehow that was enough. So, I opened Netflix and after like a second of hesitation I started watching the show and I didn’t stop. I started at eight in the evening and I watched nine episodes in a row which basically meant I was up till five in the morning. What followed seems like a record for me. I finished all fifty episodes of the Untamed in under seventy-two hours.

I put hardly five minutes of thought into my decision to watch this story and ended up dedicating the past eight days straight. The first three days to the live action drama and the past five to reading the novel.

If it isn’t obvious this story is that good.

The Untamed

The Untamed is a first for me on so many levels. I have never watched a Chinese show before ever and that seemed extremely significant to me because China is actually a neighbouring country yet as far as my mind is concerned it might as well be on another planet. Which seems particularly odd considering shows from English speaking countries like the UK and the US are a staple for me which makes these countries feel so much closer though they are geographically on the other side of the planet. Of course, a major factor is the language barrier but another is the political scenario between our two countries and amazingly this show made me realise how much of an impact perceiving different cultures can have on your perception of their people. It has literally opened up a whole new world for me that I have just realised I have never taken the moment to discover. Well, considering this is me we are talking about, how appropriate, that it would be a drama based on a BL novel that unlocked this whole new world for me.

I have tried reading a Danmei novel before which was awful and it completely turned me off the genre but it did have a side effect of educating we about elements of a wuxia novel which made this xianxia world seem a little familiar but even if it hadn’t, I would have still been hooked.

It didn’t take long for The Untamed to find a new fan and I have been obsessing over it ever since.

The Untamed is an amazing drama which revolves around the love Lan WangJi and Wei WuXian have for each other and the plot is so intriguing that you wouldn’t be able to stop even if you tried (I didn’t because that thought didn’t even manage to enter my mind).

It’s a love story and that is undisputable for me, they don’t say it, it isn’t mentioned but there is this palpable force influencing events and you know they love each other. I have somehow really disregarded how much a show can show you stuff without ever explicitly stating it but The Untamed set me straight in that regard. I doubt anyone who watches the show would mistake it for anything but the love story it is.

Wei WuXian was an instant hit for me. He is a lovable, gregarious character always up to mischief but is someone who always wants to be on the side of justice and I have a weak spot for characters with a hard on for justice. He is just such a lively character who keeps smiling all the time that it’s just hard not to fall for him in minutes. His antics and his demeanour are so charming that you’re hooked. He would have easily been my most favourite character in any other drama that doesn’t have a Lan WangJi.

Lan WangJi is an amazing character. In a world, which has become increasing about everyone voicing their opinions (like I’m doing at present) it is hard to believe that people like Lan WangJi exist. People who are quiet, who don’t speak unless absolutely necessary. He is literally the embodiment of tranquillity and more important he is Wei WuXian’s hero. Like literally he protects him like he’s protecting his life which on second thought he definitely is.

I literally had second-hand embarrassment from how obviously romantic these two are.

Hands down the best thing I have watched in 2020 by far! The characters are amazing, the plot is intricate and it is so, so interesting. I watched almost fourty hours of this series non-stop and I don’t remember a single point where I felt like the story became boring for a second which now that I think about it is, is… astonishing. How can such a large drama be so engrossing? This isn’t binge-worthy there is literally no other way to watch the show!!!

Mo Dao Zu Shi

But after coming down from the high of the first seventy-two hours of being submerged in this world, I was reluctant to leave this world so much so that I didn’t even contemplate it. I had a wide variety of media to choose from. The story is based on a web series by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu that was made into a manhua, followed by an donghua, followed by an audio drama followed by The Untamed. It must speak to the universality of the story that the people are willing to read the same story in so many different formats, I know I’m not done.

But, high up on my list was the source material, one of the articles described the show as being extremely faithful to the novel, which made me want to jump on that wagon posthaste, and I agree whole-heartedly. I read the translation by Exiled Rebels Scanlations and what struck me was how the show and the novel were tonally the same. I had switched mediums but it didn’t feel like a different story or like I was reading different characters which is shocking because that’s literally how good the show was at translating words into video.

Differences

One of the startling things about the book is that it really ties up the plot neatly. There are tons of plot points that aren’t as completely resolved on the show as they are on the novel which I only ever realised after reading the novel. A lot of this had to do with how certain details of the plot are different. A classic example that the reason behind the scars on Lan Zhan’s back is different in the two. In the novel, LWJ whisks WWX away from the Nightless City after he massacres and pretty much beats-to-a-pulp the entire alliance of sects. LWJ then has to tend to WWX so they remain in hiding for three days. When cultivators from the GusuLan Sect finally discover the two, LWJ has to defeat all of them to keep WWX safe and that’s why he is given one whipping for every cultivator he defeated. Of course, since WWX dies on the battlefield in the show this couldn’t be the reason behind the scars so they have LWJ defend Burial Mounds which wasn’t all that fruitful considereing the LanlingJin Clan does end up with a lot of WWX’s artifacts, there was no point in defending Burial Mounds as he couldn’t have kept it up in the long run but him going to Burial Mounds after the massacre at Nightless City is important to ensure they story can credibly reveal Lan ShiZui to be A-Yuan. So, yeah differences, the show focuses on the Wen Clan and the Yin Iron while the novel doesn’t have the Yin Iron at all and focuses on Jin GuangYao. But, despite the differences the story still feels coherent between the two mediums mainly because the relationship between LWJ and WWX that is at the core of both remains central to the plot at all times.

The plot of the novel though is extremely intricate and the author does an amazing job of deconstructing it which makes it easier to understand what’s happening while the show in hindsight does get away with sweeping up certain loose ends.

Of course, the kisses and the sex are gone but I will gladly take that cliff scene in exchange. I was actually shocked that the novel actually doesn’t dwell on WWX’s first death at all. Like, we don’t even know how exactly he died in the novel and this was hsocking given how pivotal that cliff scene is in the show.

Characters

Surprisingly though a lot of the roles of side characters were expanded for the show, the novel seems to have delivered a better understanding of these characters. The biggest example for me being Jiang Yanli.

She has an elaborately expanded role in the show which does highlight how deep her bind with her brothers particularly WWX is but somehow she seems like a timid character among a bunch of very strong characters. What the novel does is that it gives you a very realistic picture of her, she might not seem like a significant influence on the story but her impact is far-reaching. The novel doesn’t showcase much of her character but the scenes that feature her in the book are some of the most poignant ones and incidentally those are the same ones that stand out in the show. I feel like novel did a better job of showing off her strength. While, in the show I couldn’t look beneath her timid demeanour the novel manages to showcase the strength of her love. She cares deeply and loves deeply and the novel manages to show you the courage it takes to love someone so deeply. I definitely admire her character more and in fact I’m kind of in awe that someone who appears so traditional was so awesome. It felt easy to dismiss her character but reading the author’s words made me realise that I would be very, very wrong in doing so.

Wei WuXian might be the luckiest guy in the world to have a shijie like her followed by a husband like LWJ who both seem very determined to spoil the hell out of him. I might be experiencing some jealousy right now.

The author somehow manages to imbue her characters with qualities that makes them real and unique. Like WWX forgetting everybody’s face which is a real world problem that I have never seen anybody suffer from in a novel but just the fact that WWX doesn’t immediately bring his old hang-ups in his subsequent meetings with side characters didn’t only have hilarious consequences but made everything that much more intriguing and credible.

This author also does an amazing job of flipping characters. There are very few villains who are black and white in this story. WWX himself is a character caught in the gray of it all, universally reviled for standing up for the right reasons. This is a theme throughout the show and the novel where bad characters might be good and good might be bad but the author endeavours to show us all sides to a character. While this most definitely applies to Jin GuangYao, I’m surprised with how it resonates with Xue Yang who’s relationship with Xiao Xinchen can only be characterized with the words “It’s Complicated”. I don’t actually know what to think of these two Xiao Xingchen was definitely betrayed but can we ignore the fact that he found himself a companion in Xue Yang his sworn enemy and Xue Yang’s feelings for Xiao Xingchen are enough to drive me crazy. This guy has no idea how frustrating he is, that piece of candy clenched in his fist will drive me crazy for the rest of my life. The entire Yi City Arc is a big mess of grey there are no whites and blacks and the show underscores that with this quote –

Once upon a time, there was a little child who liked sweets very much. But because he had no parents nor money, he could never have such things. So he’d been dreaming if only someone could give him a candy every day.

Don’t even get me started on the music that plays in the background when this quote is being narrated.

There are just so many amazing things about the show and the novel. I mean the show might have actually worked harder to make things more romantic and one scene that I’m surprised isn’t from the book is the lantern scene with both of them making pledges like that particular scene neatly underlined who WWX is and would become. The hand-fastening scene is also not from the book but then there are other scenes and other delights to be found in the novels.

This story is definitely worth reading and watching for years to come. If anyone has any apprehensions about the novel I will be glad to clarify but the everything about “The Untamed” and “Mo Dao Zu Shi” stand in the same breath.

[gogysglasses-archive]

Ramble anon here back at it again with a long one!! So, as anyone in the mcyt fandom can pretty much agree, the internet can be a really great place for making friends. We see this in the ccs we watch but also in the fandom community itself!! I really admire the dream team friendship especially because it reminds me a lot of what friendships I myself have been able to make online because of minecraft. I used to play on a smaller server from early 2017 up until late 2020 and met a lot of people who have changed my life that im still in contact with now while playing!! (ive even traveled across the country to meet one of them!) I just think the dream team is a great example of how real friendships online can be. (Idk how common the mindset of “people you meet on the internet can’t be your friends” is anymore, but when I was first starting to connect online that’s what my parents were preaching, this mindset may have changed more within the past half decade or so) also, the fact that Sapnap and Dream met each other when they were preteens is also really interesting/cool to me! a friendship that lasts that long is sure to last a lifetime, and I’m really happy for them all, George included!! Speaking of George, I sympathize heavily with him not being able to go visit his friends. I was in a relationship for almost two years with one of my online friends and I only got to see them twice irl during that time, the first time having to wait til during our 8th month anniversary! I can’t imagine knowing people you consider to be your best friends for almost 5 years and not being able to see them irl because of a pandemic :(( I’m just so glad that they’ve chosen to share their friendship with us all because it really is something truly special. What we see is only a small snippet of their interactions as a whole but we can still tell that they all love and care deeply about each other and want to see each other succeed. When the restrictions lessen, I am excited to see them all (responsibly) meet up and complete the dream team trio irl !! (And also get Sapnap and George to finally stop bickering about their height. though, the shorter will probably find a way to accuse the eventually-proven taller one of the two to be rigging the measurement or something /lh)

hello ramble anon! prepare for a ramble response!

that is SO cool that you’ve made such good friends online, i’m very jealous. Traveling to meet your online friend must have been such a cool experience. I have a similar experience of when i was younger, like i remember having entire assemblies in elementary school about online safety and not talking to strangers. (which is important don’t get me wrong) but no one ever talks about the benefit of meeting people online! I’ve met a few people here and there online but it’s nothing compared to what the dteam has. it’s kinda weird cuz i’ve always been involved in fandom culture on the sidelines but this is the first fandom i have actively participated in, and like talked to people in haha. I’m stilling figuring out how to make fandom friends (where tf are you guys finding servers to join that aren’t full of small children?) but it’s so cool to see how many people have met because of mcyt!!

I’m in such awe of the dream team and their friendship, i think that’s why so many people are invested in them is because we love their friendship so much! Sapnap and Dream meeting when they were 12/13 online and now they’re living together has got to be the coolest fucking thing ever and it makes me so so so happy for them. You’re right, it does break my heart that george can’t live with them yet but he will one day. For now we just have to live with the angst of george being sad he can’t be with his best friends :’( what they have is really cool and i agree with you, i’m so glad they’ve shared even just a snippet of it with us. Once the pandemic is over they’re gonna have so much fun, and i’m so excited for them to go and do things and vlog it and just be best friends it’ll be amazing. also, i have a feeling george and sapnap will be almost exactly the same height, and they will never shut up about it. it’ll be about who’s hair is bigger or who is wearing what shoes that day. and dream will tower over both of them.