#if you’re not jewish i don’t want to hear your takes on how antisemitic dog whistles aren’t antisemitic dog whistles

[sweetblsphmy]

i don’t know who needs to shut the fuck up more: frank iero or frank iero’s fans

[germiyahu]

Note how I still let the antizionists lead me away from my original point. That says a lot about me as well as them.

Because why, when I speculate as to why Westerners dismiss Jewish indigeneity, demonize the mere presence of Jews in Eretz Yisrael, demand the complete destruction of Jewish culture in the Levant, do people come out of the woodwork to say “You are a dog and you will lie with dogs for the rest of your shameful life, do you not hear the cries of Palestini-”

I was not talking about the current war. “This don’t start on October 7th!” And neither did antisemitism, not in the West nor in the Arab world. Shut up! Ugh I should not be this easy to bait, but it turns out I am. I’m taking about an overarching narrative, from young Left leaning Americans. This arguably goes back to the Second Intifada, because that coincided with 9/11 and the Islamophobic hysteria that followed in America and Europe. That’s the scope of my musings.

If you want to talk about trying to force American politicians into advocating for a ceasefire, that’s fine. We can talk about that in due time. But my interest in discussing antisemitism, the history and psychology and sociology of it, goes so far beyond the latest slap fight between Hamas and the IDF.

If you can’t accept that or just don’t grasp it, I’m not going to take you seriously. You can try to belittle me or shame me into only talking about antisemitism on your terms but I’m not buying what you’re selling.

[perfectlyvalid49]

You’re right actually. I didn’t read it because the fact that JVP kinda sucks is just one of those things that “everybody knows” and someone else had reblogged that link recently, and I was being lazy and just grabbed what was at hand. I apologize.

So, let’s go through it. To start – the founders and advisory board are demonstrably Jewish. The members and even some chapter founders are not necessarily Jewish (https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/ ). A few years ago there was a scandal when people found out that the person running their facebook page was located in Lebanon. There are about 40 Jews in Lebanon, all of them elderly and no one believes that they’re the ones running JVP’s socials https://unitedwithisrael.org/suspicions-mount-that-the-organization-is-a-front-for-arab-anti-israel-propaganda/

In addition, here’s a tumblr post with pictures from JVP’s socials about celebrating Chanukah. Note that in both pictures the Shamash is not lit (or even present). If a single Jew had been present, these pictures would not look like this (for anyone who isn’t Jewish: You light the Shamash first, use it to light the other candles, and then place it in the holder that’s a different height. It would be in the middle slot in the top picture, and the far left in the bottom one.) https://www.tumblr.com/hero-israel/731823517606297600/heres-how-jews-for-jesus-in-palestine-lights

So while their founders may be Jewish, whether or not any individual member is actually Jewish is questionable. And the people running their social media accounts, and therefore some of the louder voices that people outside the organization hear, don’t seem to be. It’s not “race-traitor bullshit,” it’s “there are non-Jews in an organization that claims to be Jewish, and that paired with some of their actions/stances is deeply sus.”

I can’t follow your link to Xitter – it wants me to make an account and I refuse. I googled the author and I didn’t see anything relating to the IDF, but I’ll take your word for it. Having seen what you’ve been posting for the last few weeks, I am curious what you define as pro-Israel disinformation though.

I don’t know why you can’t copy/paste and why the links don’t work. That does suck. Like I said, I apologize for not vetting the link I posted.

I don’t see where AMCHA lists “thinking about criticizing Israel” as antisemitic. I can see how *actually*  criticizing Israel could be considered antisemitic because when most people criticize Israel they either do it in an antisemitic way, or they are using criticism of Israel as a cover to being more broadly antisemitic. It’s also very probably that this list is generated by people involved reporting it to the website, which means that someone at each of these events was made to feel uncomfortable enough by the JVP presence that they felt the need to report it. That doesn’t make it an attack, but it does mean that it’s more than nothing.

The LGBTQ attack is probably not mentioned on the AMCHA website because that tracks events at colleges, which the parade was not. Also, you say that he makes it seem like it’s a pride event, but it says that it’s at the Celebrate Israel parade in the first sentence of the first paragraph in that section. It also specifically says “Celebrate Israel Parade” in 3 out of the four HEADLINES of the articles you and he linked. I know that this is the piss poor reading comprehension website, but I don’t think that you’re arguing in good faith here. Also, nothing said that the infiltrators were queer OR Jewish, just that they infiltrated LGBTQ groups, that those groups were deliberately targeted (said the Executive Director of JVP in the articles you linked) and that they scared members of the LGBTQ groups that they had infiltrated. Why target the queer groups specifically for infiltration if not to scare them too?

As for the blood libel and greedy Jew cartoons. They’re dog whistles. Just because you can’t hear them doesn’t mean that other people can’t.

There are a lot of Jews who love Israel. Many of them are people who fled ethnic cleansings or genocides themselves and found safety in Israel. Calling them “garbage people” for loving the only country that would take them in after their country of origin tried to kill them is pretty shitty. Having said that, I there is some historical truth on that shirt (not as much as you think, but if we get into that, you’ll block me for sure).

The “fabricated holidays” in question are probably Yom Hashoah (holocaust remembrance day), Yom Hazikaron (Israel’s Memorial Day) and Yom Haatzmaut (Israel’s Independence day). I can see why a person might think that represents an oppression to freedom story – IF THEY WEREN’T JEWISH AND DIDN’T KNOW HISTORY. Israel’s Independence day is when they signed their Declaration of Independence. Yom Hashoah is the anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. This post is just another example of JVP being shitty and ignorant – and by claiming that Jews are just using the holocaust as an excuse to be shitty, that is the first step down the road to holocaust denial (you’re using it as an excuse, you’re making it up, it wasn’t that bad, etc). If it isn’t holocaust denial outright, it’s DEFINITELY antisemitic.

The Mapping project was literally featured on a neo-nazi livestream: https://jweekly.com/2022/07/18/bds-groups-map-of-jewish-boston-shows-up-on-local-neo-nazis-livestream/ I can’t speak to the rest of his claims, but the fear of it being used by white supremacists to target Jews is not unfounded.

He does not say they’re equivalent. He’s saying that they’re spreading the same propaganda, which will have equivalent outcomes. I also find it very telling that if Stormfront isn’t the originator, then neo-nazis are pulling their memes from anti-zionist creators. It’s almost like they have some beliefs in common.

Jewish supremacy is another dog whistle. And he’s not saying that it makes them David Duke, he’s pointing out yet another way that JVP is walking the same paths as anti-semites. He may be a little overblown in his claims, but at the heart of it, he’s right. JVP routinely displays ignorance of history, of Jewish custom and uses antisemitic talking points in their quest to aid the people of Palestine. There are ways to advocate for them that don’t require that.

Anyway, here are a handful more links to stuff we didn’t even get to talk about

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I know you’re rabidly anti-zionist and liberal with the block button. If you decide to block me for this, so be it. But please know that there are ways to be anti-zionist without being antisemitic and I hope that you can figure that out for yourself. I’m happy to try to help if you don’t block me.

if you live in the us and have literally 2 minutes to spare go fill out the form here -- it will give you a script and also prompt a phone call that will patch you through the the office of your district's representative. specify that you will not consider voting for them again, or for any elected officials, if they don't call for an immediate ceasefire and end to us funding of genocide. jewish voice for peace has a lot of other action items, most of which can be done from home if you aren't able to attend a protest.

[whitehotharlots]

Previewing the 2024 Democrat Primary

Within a couple weeks of his being sworn in, just about every person on earth will wish Joe Biden was no longer president. Sure, the few surviving John B. Anderson voters will be thrilled to see 4 years of crushing austerity and half-assed attempts at Keynesian stimulus. But most people will begin dreaming about a brighter future.

Good news! The 2024 Democratic primary field is going to contain dozens of options. Bad news! They are all going to be disgusting piles of shit. 

The “top tier”

While it’s too early to do any handicapping, these are the candidates the media will treat as having the most realistic chances of securing the nomination. 

Kamala Harris

Kamala did not win a single primary delegate in 2020. This is because she dropped out before the first primary, and that was because no one likes her. She has no base beyond a few thousand of twitter’s most violent psychos. Her disingenuousness approaches John Edwards levels: any halfway incredulous person can see immediately beyond her bullshit. She has no principles whatsoever, and while that may be par for the course for Democrats, she lacks even the basic politician’s ability to intuit anything that might, hypothetically, constitute a principle. 

Even better: she is an awful public speaker. She sounds like how a talking dog would speak if he were just caught stealing people food off the kitchen table. She communicates in weird grunts and faux sassy squeaks, which is how she imagines real black women sound like, but something about her is unable to sell the bit. She begins her sentences in halfhearted AAVE, stops and panics halfway through as she realizes that maybe this sounds fake and offensive, and then reminds herself oh wait, no, this is okay since I’m black. This doesn’t happen once or twice per speech. This is how every single sentence sounds. 

Kamala is like Nancy Pelosi in that no sketch show will ever impersonate her correctly, because anything that came close to authenticity would be considered far too cruel. This might benefit her in the primaries, as she exists in the minds of Democrats as someone and something she absolutely is not in reality. Nominating her would be like allowing your child’s imaginary friend to attempt to drive you to the store. 

Andrew Cuomo

Easily one of the 50 worst people alive, Cuomo has a solid chance because Democrats, same as Republicans, are unable to differentiate between electability and self-serving ruthlessness. Cuomo used the deadliest public health crisis in American history as a pretext for cutting Medicaid and firing 5,000 MTA workers, and his approval rating increased. New York Dems are little piggies who love eating shit. If we assume that the political media will continue their habit of refusing to discuss the legislative history of right wing Democrats, Cuomo might well cruise to the nomination and then lose to literally any human being the GOP nominates by an historic margin. 

Joe Biden

The party loves him because he is a right wing racist. “Progressives” tolerate him because black primary voters over 40 supported him, and their opinion is supposedly a magic window into god’s truth. Everyone else can tell he is manifestly senile. I don’t put it above the DNC to pick a candidate who is in horrible health, dying, or even dead--whatever the financial sector wants, they’ll get. But I would be shocked if his approval rating is above 39% by mid-2023, and by that point deep fake technology will be advanced enough they’ll put out a very lifelike video in which the Max Headroom version of Joe explains he’s proud of his accomplishments--that budget’s almost balanced already--but, man, I gotta abd--I gotta abdica--, uhh, I gotta, I, uhh, I gotta move down, man. 

Wild Cards

These candidates would have all have a chance if they ran, but they could all much more easily retire to Little Saint James off of kickbacks they’ve gotten from Citibank and I.G. Farben. 

Rahm Emanuel

Rahm is going to receive some hugely influential post in the Biden administration. Let’s say he becomes Secretary of Education. His signature achievement will be replacing all elementary school teachers with Amazon’s Alexa, which saved the taxpayers so much money we were able to quadruple the number of armed police officers we put into high schools. This will give him several thousand positive profiles on network news programs and the near-universal support of the Silicon Valley vampires who will own 99% of the country by the time Biden’s term ends. They will use their fancy mind control devices to convince geriatic primary voters that Rahm’s the one who will bring Decency back to the white house. His candidacy will be the paragon of wokeness, as expressing concern toward the fact that he covered up the police murder of a black guy will get you called a racist. 

Rahm has a bonus in that Jewish men are now Schrodeniger’s PoC. When they are decent human beings, they are basic, cis white men who are stealing attention from disabled trans candidates of color. When they love austerity and apartheid, they become the most vulnerable people of color on earth and criticizing them in any way is genocide. No one will be able to mention a single thing Rahm has ever done or said without opening themselves to accusations of antisemitism, and that gives him a strong edge against the rest of the field. The good news is that an Emmanuel candidacy would result in over 50% of black voters choosing the GOP candidate--which, I guess that’s not really good but it would certainly be funny. 

Gavin Newsom

Newsom is every bit as feckless as Cuomo, but he doesn’t put off the same “bad guy in an early Steven Segal movie” vibes. He will mention climate change 50 times per speech and no one will bother to mention how he keeps signing fracking contracts even though his state is now on fire 11 months of the year. If anything, this will be spun into an argument about how he’s actually the candidate best suited to handle all the water refugees gathering on the southern border. Look for his plan to curb emissions by 10% by the year 2150 to get high marks from Sierra Club nerds. He’s also a celebate librarian’s idea of what constitutes a handsome man, so he’ll have some support from the type of women who claim to hate all men. 

Larry Summers

I mean, why not? Larry, like most members of the Obama administration, has politics that are eerily similar to those of Jordan Peterson. In normal circumstances, this makes a person a dangerous fascist who should not be platformed. But if that person has a D next to their name this makes them a realistic pragmatist who has what it takes to bring suburban bankers into our tent. If current trends in Woke Phrenology continue apace, Larry’s belief that women are inherently bad at STEM will be liberal orthodoxy by 2023, and his dedication to the Laffer Curve could see him rake in massive donations. Seriously, I’m not kidding: cultural liberalism is now fully dedicated to identity essentialism and balanced budgets. Larry is their ideal candidate. If he were black and/or a woman, I’d put him in the very top tier. 

Jay Inslee

Unlike Newsom, Inslee’s attempt to crown himself the King of Global Warming won’t be immediately derailed, since his state is only on fire because of protestors. This, however, poses a different problem. He’s going to be a good test case for the Democrat’s uneasy peace with the ever increasing share of the electorate who become catatonic upon hearing a pronoun. On the one hand, you need to take their votes for granted. On the other hand, they’re not like black people or regular gays: most voters actively, consciously despise wokies, and associating yourself with them will ruin a campaign even in deep blue areas. There’s still gonna be riots in a year. Biden’s gonna announce the sale of all our nation’s potable water to the good folks at Nestle and some trans freak named Sasha-Malia DeBalzac is going to use that as an opportunity to sell their new pamphlet about how it’s fascist to not burn down small businesses. No matter what Inslee does in response, it’ll end his career. 

AOC

I’m not one of those “AOC is a secret conservative” weirdos, but I am aware enough of basic reality to know she has zero chance of coming close to the nomination. The right and the center both regard her as a literal demon. The party is already blaming her for the fact that a handful of faceless Reagan acolytes failed to flip their suburban districts even though they ran on sensible pragmatic proposals like euthanizing the homeless. The recriminations will only get more unhinged when the Dems eat shit in the 2022 midterms. She will be a Russian, she will be white male, she will be a communist, she will be a homophobe: any insult or conspiracy theory you can name, MSNBC will spend hours discussing. Her house seat challenger will receive a record amount of support from the DNC in 2024 and it’ll be all she can do to remain in congress.

Larry Hogan

Don’t be dissuaded by the fact that he’s a Republican. Larry is the DNC’s ideal candidate: a physically repulsive conservative who owes his entire career to appealing to the most spiteful desires of suburban white people. He’s an open racist in a material sense--if you’re old-school enough to think racism is a matter of beliefs and actions, rather than the presence of cultural signifiers--but his is the beloved “never Trump��� style of racism that Dems covet. He’s also a Proven Leader who thinks the role of government should be to finance the construction of investment property and give police the resources they need to run successful drug trafficking operations. Few people embody the Democrat worldview more than Larry. 

The Losers Bracket

These people will have at least a small chance due solely to the fact that the Democrats love losing. They have lost in the past, and in the Democrat Mind that makes them especially qualified.

Joe Kennedy

The man looks like a mushroom-human hybrid from a JRPG. Trump proved that physical hideousness need not doom a presidential bid, but a candidate still needs some kind of charm or oratorical abilities or, god forbid, a decent platform. Joe aggressively lacks all of these things. A vanity campaign would be a good way to raise money and perhaps secure an MSNBC gig, so Joe might still run. 

Mayor Pete 

I am 100% convinced that Pete’s 2020 run was a CIA plot meant to prevent working class Americans from ever having a chance of living decent lives. I am also 100% aware that Democrats are dumb enough to enthusiastically support a CIA plot meant to prevent working class Americans from ever having a chance of living decent lives. If we have some sort of military or terror disaster between now and 2023 the Dems are sure to want a TROOP, and wait wait wait you’re telling me this one is a gay troop? Holy hell there’s no way that could lose!

Stacy Abrams

Never underestimate the power of white guilt. She lost the gubernatorial race to Gomer Pyle’s grandson, and her spiritual guidance of the Dems saw the party lose black voters in Georgia in 2020. Nonetheless, she is regarded as a magic font of fierceness within the DNC. She might stand a chance if she can establish herself as the most conservative non-white candidate in the field, but there’s going to be stiff competition for that honor.

Elizabeth Warren

Liz is probably angry that the party so shamelessly sold her out even after she was a good little girl and sabatoged Bernie’s campaign for them--yet another example of high ranking US government officials reneging on their promises to the Native American community. Smdh. The fact that this woman hasn’t been bankrupted a dozen times over by various Wallet Inspectors genuinely astounds me. So Liz is probably going to run again, and her campaign will be even sadder the second time around. 

It might surprise you to hear this if you don’t work at a college or NGO, but Liz diehards actually do exist. She’ll get even less support this time because there will be no viable leftist in the field for her to spoil, but she’ll still hang in long enough to make sure the very worst possible candidate beats out the second worst possible candidate. Maybe she’ll fabricate a rape accusation against Sherrod Brown. Maybe she’ll spend her entire allotted debate time doing a land acknowledgment. With Liz, anything is possible--so long as it ends in failure. 

Amy Klobuchar 

Amy was the most bloodthirsty of the 2020 also rans. She will double down on the unpopular failures of the Biden administration, explaining that if you weren’t such a selfish idiot you’d love the higher social security retirement age and oh my god are so such a moron you think you shouldn’t go bankrupt to get a COVID vaccine? There’s a non-unsubstantial segment of the Democratic base that’s self-hating enough to find this appealing, but it won’t be enough to make her viable. 

Martha Coakley

She lost Ted Kennedy’s senate seat to a retarded man who was pretending to be even more retarded than he actually was. Then she lost a gubernatorial race to a guy who openly promised Massachusetts voters that he would punish them for electing him. Her record of failure is unparalleled, making her perhaps the ideal Democrat standard bearer for the twenty twenties. 

[eldunea]

hear me out: lotor sincline as muggle studies professor and head of slytherin house.

would happen probably in his late 20s/early 30s after he designs the sincline mech and gets the wizarding space program up and running. at that point he’d probably hand off official control of his project to his mother honerva (though he’d still have some influence over it) and start focusing some of his energy on his decolonization project where he wants to bring back POC customs of wizards and muggles living side-by-side. to achieve this end. his aim as muggle studies professor is to get students used to the idea that wizards and muggles can and should coexist peacefully.

he has four main focuses in teaching his course: customs, history, philosophy and science. he tends to focus more on the last three than the first because those are more within his realm of knowledge. he also has more of an international focus rather than simply a european one when talking about history, philosophy and science--he could go on forever about how indigenous mesoamericans domesticated and bred 3,000 varieties of plants, or about the intricacies of lao tzu’s tao te ching, or about the hidden role of claudette colvin in america’s civil rights movement. and if there’s one thing that he nerds out about more than pre-contact histories of his parents’ peoples, it’s muggle jewish inventors. 

he has a special unit that he teaches to third years about 20th century atrocities and totalitarianism. he spends literally the entire second semester of third year talking about why dictatorships form, the tactics of corrupt leadership in controlling peoples’ lives, and how it’s every citizen’s duty to prevent this shit from happening again. he drives the message home by doing a comparative study of the rise of voldemort and the rise of hitler, and talking about how muggles’ racial biases toward POC have always influenced how wizards felt as well. one of the underlying themes of this unit is that wizards are more influenced by currents of muggle society than many would want to admit, and that’s why muggle studies is important.

one of his biggest messages as a professor other than the fact that wizards and muggles can live peacefully with each other is that muggles are the real wizards. literally when he starts class with third years he starts off with “wizards are fucking useless, i have the stats to prove it, we’ve technologically stagnated since the 1900s and we have the lowest proportion of inventors and scientists of any people in the world. muggles discovered the inner workings of nature through the likes of newton and einstein and hawking, and meanwhile in our corner we have bartholomew briggleby still pooping in the backyard and vanishing it like a dog because he’s never heard of a toilet.” he is vociferous about the notion that wizards are technologically lazy and complacent and it is imperative that the next generation starts being more like him and going out and inventing.

his domesticated foxes kugel and brisket have free run of the hogwarts grounds and all the students love them. occasionally a third fox--lotor himself--shows up with them. students, not knowing that it’s one of their teachers, have affectionately named it “blintzes.”

he’d also teach alchemy to the 6th and 7th years if there’s sufficient interest. the workload in the years where he has to do that is hellish but he pulls it off.

and some separate headcanons about lotor as head of slytherin house because HO BOY he’s about to start a revolution up in this bitch

he’s the first POC head of slytherin as well as its first jewish head. he goes to the chamber of secrets and takes a picture of himself leaning against the giant head of his house’s founder and writes a giant magical blogging post about how slytherin was antisemitic, how he said “jewish blood is just as dirty as muggle blood,” how he wanted to use the basilisk to purge the school of jewish students as well as muggle-born ones and how lotor literally became head of slytherin house out of PURE SPITE. he just.

“this isn’t your house anymore. it belongs to the people who live in it. it belongs to the ambition of the muggle-born who wants to show he’s just as good as any pureblood, or the romani child who wants to be the first in her family to graduate hogwarts. the cunning of the abuse survivor who has done everything in their power to survive. the leadership that young indigenous activists show when we fight to save the planet from the point of no return. the fraternity found in solidarity between jews, christians and muslims. I REFUSE to let hogwarts be a place where one house remains a bastion for prejudiced slander and hate, because if one house isn’t safe for the marginalized, the whole school isn’t safe either.”

half of his house hates him for that. if it’s not the conservative snob students calling for his removal, it’s their parents who most likely silently supported the death eaters while voldemort’s campaign was raging. but many of them learn very quickly not to mess with him for a reason stated below.

with all this feel-good talk, he seems more of a gryffindor or a hufflepuff. but to those students who break the rules or who try to make his life hell on the basis of his identity, he has steady reminders of how much of a slytherin he actually is. students who try to undermine him or others in sneaky ways are surprised to learn that he’s twice the filthy piece of shit that they all hope to be; no matter how clever they think they are he’s at least ten steps ahead, and it drives the lesson home when he manages to beat them at their own games. he sends the students off to detention with a smirk on his face, telling them “you can’t outfox a fox.” most of the time he takes absolutely no shit from troublemakers and isn’t afraid to teach them lessons the hard way. but if someone is looking to go after a known bully or something along those lines…he might look the other way.

he’s also damn good at keeping people in his house from going down the wrong path. he’s seen both sides of the coin--having been abused by white supremacists all his life and then experimenting with dark magic to get back at his abusers--so he knows real trouble when he sees it and he always puts a stop to it. 

this is where his persuasion comes in: he knows those kids won’t listen if he appeals to conventional morality, because he sure as hell didn’t listen either. so he appeals to their value systems instead. like if he catches someone with a hand of glory stealing stuff from other students who wants to be a master thief, he won’t blather on about why stealing is wrong, he’ll say “wow, i didn’t know your biggest dream in life was to be a petty felon. you’re a slytherin. where’s your ambition? don’t you want to be more than that?” or if someone wants to hurt someone via dark magic to achieve their ends, he’s like “well that’s not very clever of you. aren’t you smart enough to think of another way to get what you want?” of course, he always makes sure to walk them through the ethics of it later, but he knows he has to appeal to their self-interest, their ego and their childish still-developing emotions in order to hook them in. basically it takes a bastard to know a bastard and lotor is a supreme bastard so he can get inside their heads like nobody else.

one of the things he often has to do as a result of keeping kids out of trouble is confronting blood supremacist and otherwise bigoted parents when he talks their kids out of following their values. it’s fucking exhausting for him having to deal with their bullshit on a yearly basis but every time this happens he tells his students, “arguing is the jewish national sport. i was born for this” and goes right in.

if the parents get real bad, whether through hammering in bigoted ideologies or other forms of child abuse, lotor will straight up invite them to stay in hogwarts year-round. some of the nastier parents have straight up refused to let their kids go to hogwarts anymore and opt to send them to durmstrang, so this is their only option if they want to continue their education in a school that like, doesn’t teach the dark arts. he sometimes lives in the slytherin common room during the summer to keep an eye on the kids that stay there because they can’t go back home in one way or another and he’s more of a parent to them than some of their parents ever were.

[communistvashoth]

Look, i'm not saying i dont see the parallells between illuminati/reptilian conspiracies and historical antisemitism. But the idea of a shadowy, corrupt group controlling the government is a common thread in a lot of fringe theories, and calling it a reference to Jews throws me so far under the bus you wouldn't fucking believe it

I’ve decided to write a pretty long response to this, and i hope you’ll read the whole thing. I promise, I have no desire to throw you under any buses.

(pertaining to this)

I'm sorry you feel unfairly piled on; I dont know who you are, but I doubt you deserve that, most people don’t. it's sadly common in more progressive communities, and the internet in general, for people to respond to mistakes and miscommunications with rigid condemnation and some sort of "excommunication". if that's what you're going through, that probably is unfair, and you're justified in feeling frustrated. it also, just generally, really sucks to be told that something you did or said may have been insensitive or harmful. most people dont mean to do that sort of thing, and when we're told something we did was racist, sexist, anti-semitic, homophobic, etc. it often feels like we are being labeled a racist, a sexist, an anti-semite, a homophobe, etc. that feels really shitty, because those are shitty things to be, so being called that feels like being called a bad person. its vitally important, though, that we remember that those words are primarily adjectives. everybody does things that are racist, sexist, anti-semitic, homophobic, etc. sometimes, but that doesn’t mean that we are those things. 

we don’t become racists, sexists, anti-semites, homophobes, etc. until we are confronted with harm we caused accidentally and, instead of hearing that, addressing it, changing for the better, and moving on, we become defensive, double-down, and resent the people we’ve harmed for having the audacity to make us feel guilty. 

in this instance, i’m afraid there are more than just parallels, and the anti-semitism is more than historical. many of those fringe conspiracy theories don’t just share the concept of a secret, evil cabal running the world and destroying western culture/white people/free speech/whatever ridiculous thing, they share specifically the idea that there is a secret, evil cabal of jewish people running the world and destroying western culture/white people/free speech/whatever thing. they seem like ridiculous garbage that only nutcases believe in, but when actually investigated and dissected, many of those theories are based in the same bigotries as the blood libels going back as far as the 11th century. the fact of the matter is, most if not all of those such conspiracy theories are not similar to anti-semitism, they are anti-semitism, and they are not historical, they are happening now, and they are motivating anti-semitic violence now. I mean, just look at Qanon and the “white genocide” conspiracy theory. and if you’re not very familiar with those, then you should count yourself very, very lucky that they aren’t things that demand your attention. 

I am sorry for how you are feeling; i know from experience that it feels really shitty to be told you’ve harmed someone when you didnt mean to, and i know what it’s like to be subjected to overreactions about it, and how shitty that is. assuming you are the OP of the post i commented on, i don’t think you meant to harm anyone, you were just making a joke that was, admittedly, funny, and if anyone is saying you’re a raging anti-semite, or evil, or irredeemable, or anything like that, that’s definitely an out-of-proportion response to one post. I hope that you can recognise when people are overreacting or taking out their own unhappiness out on you, and i hope that you can fortify and feel some comfort in the knowledge that they are wrong, and you dont deserve to be treated like that. but i also hope that your feelings of being thrown under the bus don’t harden you to genuine criticism. i don’t doubt it hurts, and you are definitely justified in feeling that a lot of that hurt is unwarranted, but being told you’ve done something harmful will never be painless. counterintuitively, it’s actually a sort of a silver lining to all this; that bad feeling, that unpleasant niggle of guilt, it means that you care when you harm people by accident. but as much as those feelings suck, and as much as it super, super sucks to be dogpiled by internet assholes, we can’t use those bad feelings to insulate ourselves from our mistakes. 

it hurts, but it doesn’t justify ignoring the harm we do to others; being called a racist has never hurt a white person as much as racism harms people of colour. being told we’ve done something anti-semitic is hard, but trying to navigate through increasingly common murky double-speak and covert dog-whistles as a jewish person is harder. they don’t deserve that, but it’s an unavoidable part of their lives. if we care about them, if we want to help them, if we want to help lay the bricks for a new world where they won’t have to suffer that, we have to shoulder that burden with them. sometimes that means examining our language, learning about unpleasant history and its modern forms, and letting a joke go by the wayside when it sounds uncomfortably like a dog-whistle, even if that isn’t how we meant it.

if it helps at all, you’re not alone in this. you’re not alone in your feelings, and you’re not alone in this experience. in fact, if you’re still feeling shitty/frustrated/unheard, i’d be happy to chat with you off anon (altho maybe not immediately, it’s getting late). I’ve also done things that were anti-semitic without meaning to and had to confront that, and i struggle with all sorts of learned prejudices that i want to be better about. If you need to vent about this, if you need someone you can just word-vomit at without worrying about hurting someone’s feelings, i am here, and i am absolutely willing to listen. 

and even if none of this affects you -although i dont believe it to be the case, it’s totally possible you’re coming to this discussion in bad faith; anon means i dont even know for sure who you are, so i can’t exactly check- i hope you will read it, as long as it is. and even if you don’t, or do and dismiss it, maybe it will reach someone else.

i hope you, anon-who-might-be-OP, feel better; i hope you feel heard. i hope you find your way to peace and understanding with this.

i hope any jewish people who were affected by this situation feel better; i hope you feel heard. i hope you find your way to peace and healing with this.

[sophygurl]

WisCon 43 panel Learning to Hear the Dog Whistle

[Just wanted to say this was one of the panels I suggested and I’m so glad it went through and that I was able to make it to the panel. This is something so many of us need to work on, and I’ve made it a practice to point out when I think someone has unwittingly passed on a dog whistle-ish message, in large part because I hope/want for others to do the same for me when and if I do it, myself. Anyway, I learned a lot and this panel was really good.]

Political dog whistles are meant specifically to target one audience who agrees with you, and perhaps to trick others into agreeing with your subtle and covert language. It's important for us to be able to recognize these dog whistles, often used by racist, transphobic, and other bigoted groups. How do we learn to listen for and recognize these whistles when they are used specifically to dodge our ears?

Moderator: Heidi Waterhouse. Panelists: Seth Frost, Keffy R. M. Kehrli

Disclaimers: These are only the notes I was personally able to jot down on paper during the panel. I absolutely did not get everything, and may even have some things wrong. Corrections by panelists or other audience members always welcome. I name the mod and panelists because they are publicly listed, but will remove/change names if asked. I do not name audience members unless specifically asked by them to be named. If I mix up a pronouns or name spelling or anything else, please tell me and I’ll fix it! 

Notes:

Heidi started the panel off saying that the panel was obviously not full of all kinds of representation (example: the panelists were all white), so they were going to miss some stuff. The hope was that they could impart more generally how to recognize dog whistles. [They also had a lot of audience additions later on]

She also said that when we talked about racism and antisemitism, etc. - we’re talking about a set of behaviors vs. individual people. She suggests giving someone a chance to walk back a dog whistle you’ve just heard them use and asking them if they know what they’ve just said.

Seth said he knows more white supremacy dog whistles than even he’s comfortable with, and he points them out whenever he sees them.

Keffy doesn’t know as many as he’d like, but he lives on social media and finds it important to recognize them whenever possible.

Heidi took a moment to define dog whistles - intentionally coded language meant to be covertly used within a group or community. For example: “interested in ethnic heritage” ~might~ mean someone is really into their Scottish heritage and actually eats haggis on purpose, but it also might mean they’re a white supremacist. 

Seth used an example of a time the host of a TV show he was watching had a spider web tattoo on his elbow - without context he didn’t know if it meant the host just really thought spiders were cool or if he was a white supremacist. For context, Seth would have needed to see other tattoos, or what his political affiliations were, etc. Another example is Norse stuff, which can be totally innocuous, but is also something white supremacists are co-opting. 

Keffy brought up seeing the number 88 on people’s user names - it might mean they were born in the year 1988, or it could be a white supremacist signifier. 

Seth added that many Nazi’s are not smart. They use this “bullshit numerology” where 88 = HH = Hitler. However, 88 is also a lucky number in Chinese traditions, so that’s another example of something being used in multiple ways and not knowing without context how someone is using it.

Seth also talked about the 14 words - a white supremacist mission statement. So “14 words” or even just the number 14 can be a white supremacist dog whistle.

Heidi brought up the fact that we’re using dog whistle in it’s negative sense, but all in-group communities have their own language they use to recognize one another. 

One example Heidi noticed was a show Forged in Fire about blacksmiths. A lot of them wore Thor stuff due to that connection, but slowly over time less and less of them continued to wear Thor-themed things as they’d had it pointed out to them how white supremacists were using those symbols.

Keffy talked about one way to notice if something is being used as a dog whistle or not is to pay attention to who shows up when you see it. When, for example, TERFs swarm to a post using specific language, it’s time to look up the terms used and understand how they’re being used. 

Keffy explained what TERF meant, and used scare-quotes around “radical feminist” because he doesn’t see them as being particularly feminist or radical - especially not in the sense it was used in the 80′s. [yup]

Keffy also mentioned the use of pattern matching. If someone is using XX or XY in their bio - well, that’s not bad in and of itself, but if you take a moment to look at their page and you see them harassing a lot of trans people, then you have your answer.

Seth added that watching how they interact with others can be important. If you think they’ve used a dog whistle but aren’t sure, it’s okay to put some distance between you and them to just observe who they’re interacting with and how. 

Keffy said it can be important to have friends from many different groups, and if someone tells you that something is harmful to them - listen and believe them. We often learn by being told after accidentally reblogging or retweeting something, and that’s okay. You just have to believe that people know better about their own oppressions. 

Heidi talked about how bigots were using the triple parenthesis around names of Jewish people to mark them on twitter - some Jewish people and allies started to use the triple parenthesis for themselves intentionally as a sort of “I am Spartacus” protest. There was a big discussion about this in regards to reclaiming vs. causing harm due to generational trauma. It was important, in that instance, to listen to the Jewish people whose trauma was being triggered, and to believe them about not doing this.

Keffy added that he stopped retweeting as much from people who were using it because his followers had told him it was a trigger for them. 

Seth said, as a Jew and trans person, “If I ask you to stop using a hurtful thing, that’s a big show of trust”, so he thinks about that when people come to him in a similar manner. 

Heidi posed the question of having scripts for when we call out our friends, or when it’s time to ping an ally to help us out.

Keffy said he’s not that organized to have a script, but he does have some friends that he’s asked to take over. Gave an example of taking T and shifting pronouns, had a friend with a more masculine sounding voice call the pharmacy to ask about it first due to concerns about not being taken seriously.

Keffy also talked about the term calling in, rather than calling out, which is a more personal and quiet approach. He’ll usually DM someone or talk to them privately about these things - unless the discussion has already spiraled out in public.

Seth also said he doesn’t have a script for this, but in person he’ll usually just comment with something like “oh that’s gross” and if asked why, he’ll explain with as few words as possible. 

Heidi agreed, saying that person is probably freaking out internally, and won’t hear a lengthy response anyway.

Keffy said no matter how long he’s been working on social justice stuff, when he’s called out/in, he still feels shame or defensiveness or both. It can take time to work through that, so expecting a full discussion right away might not be realistic.

Keffy also advised that if you ask an ally to do this for you, make sure they’re actually getting the right point across.

Heidi shifted the conversation to how to support people being targeted. The first step is to believe them when they tell you something. The point of these dog whistles is to seem like they aren’t a big deal, when they are. 

Seth agreed, saying they throw just that much doubt about how they’re being used, so that people aren’t sure if it’s something bad or not. He advised defaulting to at least a base level of politeness when asked to stop using something - you can just stop. 

Keffy gave an example of “drinking the kool-aid” to refer to something being cult-like. Keffy gave some background on the phrase coming from what happened in Jonestown. The leader was very abusive and he did dry runs of giving his followers laced drinks. They were punished and even killed if they didn’t drink it, which made it safer for them to assume it was fake again and to just drink it. Knowing all of this, we can see that no one was really consenting to drinking the laced drinks. Hundreds of people died, and their family members and loved ones can be very triggered by the callous and casual use of this phrase popping up in what seems like otherwise-innocuous instances. 

Heidi gave another example - death marches. These kinds of phrases are used so commonly that we sometimes forget, or don’t even initially know, the history of them or the gravity of that history. 

Seth talked about the trouble with hearing dog whistles when other people don’t. It can be very isolating to have other people saying “no I don’t hear anything.”

Heidi said a panel like this could easily become a “you’re not aware/angry/anxious enough” discussion, but really the world expands more when we learn more about it. 

Seth talked about the main stream media often using antisemitic language that they may or may not be aware of, or mean. Examples: coastal elites, bankers. Keffy added that it’s gotten to the point where if he hears George Soros’s name brought up, he just stops listening. [RIGHT?!]

Heidi put it to the audience to give more dog whistle examples for us to be aware of.

One audience member talked about the “from (whichever city is nearest)” being code for black, poor, and violent. It was pointed out that Chicago is used as code for this nationwide. 

Another audience member talked about Reagan’s “welfare queen” mythology that was put together on purpose and is still ongoing today.

Someone else in the audience asked how to tell if someone is trying to recruit you as an ally or just accidentally passing on a dog whistle they weren’t aware of.

Heidi advised looking for other clues in their language and interactions. Keffy added that this is why dog whistles are so insidious. The welfare queen myth became a meme that people began to believe in. So if you explain the history and context of it’s origins and watch how people respond to it - bigots often respond to these sorts of things by telling on themselves. You can tell in the reaction how they meant it once it’s pointed out to them.

An audience member gave another example  - the peanut gallery. It has racist origins due to segregation - black people had to sit in the balconies and the myth was that they were unruly and tossing peanuts into the theater.

Another audience member talked about “urban” being used as code for black people in a negative sense. This audience member is a white teacher of mostly non-white students and urban can be used professionally as just a definition but she has to be careful about usage due to it’s other association.

Someone else in the audience talked about intelligence, but I missed most of what they said about it. 

Keffy added on to that, by adding that IQ is just racist, and if it’s not being used to be racist, well then it’s still ableist so it’s still wrong. [good points]

An audience member talked about how eugenics is used as a dog whistle for “less intelligent people shouldn’t breed.” 

Another audience member talked about gas stations and other places often owned by immigrants proudly displaying signs saying “American owned”. This is code for saying “this is the white gas station” for racists and xenophobes. 

Someone else in the audience brought up the issue of faux dog whistles, such as the ok symbol. Another audience member replied that the problem is that they become associated with the bigotry anyway. 

Seth added that everything is made up at some point or another. 

Keffy expanded on that by saying the problem with “just for lulz” dog whistles is that this is how white supremacists recruit a lot of teens and young adults. It might not initially mean what it comes to mean, but it draws people in, which is the point of it.

An audience member brought up the dog whistles of merit, merit-based, and meritocracy - a commentary on reverse racism and affirmative action. 

Keffy talked about commentary in science fiction genres about how there’s no more fun adventure stories because of all of these serious issues and social justice inclusion - codes for bigotry.

Heidi discussed ableism and how lots of times people just don’t know they’re using ableist language, but other times it’s done on purpose as gatekeeping. One example was putting “athletic” as what someone is looking for in a dating profile. Keffy added that you could do a whole panel on dog whistles in dating profiles.

Seth offered the example of people referencing Idiocracy as a dog whistle for eugenics. 

An audience member brought up people talking about dueling accommodations - which is a real thing - but it’s often used to say that we shouldn’t even bother trying to accommodate people. Also gatekeeping through issues like service animals, claiming people aren’t “disabled enough” to use them, etc.

Keffy complained about things like signs saying “be healthy, use the stairs”.

An audience member talked about people casually claiming they have OCD or ADHD when it’s not true.

Heidi asked the panelists and audience to consider some transphobic dog whistles and gave the example “real women.”. 

Seth said when people put “bio female” or “Webster’s dictionary defines womanhood as....” (which by the way isn’t even what Webster’s says but whatever). 

Heidi talked about cis women even being attacked for seeming trans - both sides of the political spectrum tend to do this one. 

Heidi also talked about fatphobia used in this way, such as making fat jokes about Trump - but that hurts all fat people. 

Keffy brought up people who claim that cis is a slur.

I raised my hand from the audience to bring up people claiming queer is a slur as a way of excluding lots of groups beyond gay and lesbian, like trans people and asexual people. Keffy added that this is an effective dog whistle because it sounds social justice-y. Keffy also talked about “get the L out” - lesbians wanting their own group outside of the queer community.

Seth added the phrase “gender critical” as another one that sounds on the surface like a good thing, but is used by TERFs. 

Keffy said they often tweak and claim terms that trans and non-binary people use to make fun of them or take power away from them.

An audience member brought up people using respect as a key-word to keep minorities from being angry and standing up for themselves.

Heidi brought up racist school dress codes, and asked people to add more dog whistles to the panel’s # -  #HearTheDogWhistle. It’s a process to learn these things.

Seth closed by saying if someone tells you a thing is problematic - stop. Do some research. Even if it turns out you disagree with them in the end, it doesn’t hurt to stop and find out more. Respect other people. 

[squiddoodle]

@lezzyharpy.....you blocked me but i’m going to reply cause your apprently 26..... And I can’t not address this cause fuck my brain.

-good fucking g-d how the fuck do you take “you cant claime to defend us while simultaneously mocking our beliefs” as a challenge. how are you misreading shit this badly - um well that’s not all of what you said. Like i’ve never heard an atheist say religious beliefs are children’s stories but I have heard them say they are fiction, comforting stories, fairytales/ myths... but anyone who thinks all religous stories are kiddish....really lets their kids read some violent stuff. And you claim believing that makes us antisemitic. Your saying not agreeing with you and thinking what your doing is a waste of time so personally want none of it , and not just you but all religion but “you do you” is insulting and mocking you!? You’re claiming that is being antisemic. There’s a huge diffrance between “ fine soccer a boring, pointless waste of my time and I have no interest in it and this is why but I can see you enjoy it and get fafillment out of it so go ahead i’ll cheer for you and be happy for you” vs “I hate everyone who plays soccer I think their the devil and we should ban soccer and beat up soccer fans. I think soccer is a illness. I think they are disgusting and not like us/ i’m going to sit back and let other people say and do that to soccer and soccer fans.” Also your acting like we think we’re better than you because we don’t belive in it.....largely....no... we are just AWARE we have unprovable things we like to belive that make us feel better and we know we could be wrong about everything we think we know, we are open to being proven wrong on facts and scientific proof would prove us wrong ..... that is litrally the soul diffrances. I don’t judge all my religious friends just one ones who think they are better than everyone else and are “at war” with everyone not as ““Enlighten as them” because of that religion. Your mocking atheist for acting like “Ohwiseones” and yet when I was religious and not the most mockly self righteous people I’ve known have all been religious. You mock us for acting like the  “o wise one Knowing better” and yet that is the bases of every damn religion! “you are the chosen none dilousional ones god has taught better than silly unbelieving fools” ....and you are litrally talking to me like your all knowing and i’m dumb filth....

( for the record what was acturlly said v)

- if we ask that you not mock our beliefs that is not….. even remotely the same thing as saying you must have the same beliefs as us-

  right it shouldn’t be but your making out it is. because apprently unless we act like you know better than us or likely that myth is equal to fact or agree that spending endless hour of your time and most your thought process worshipping a god that no one can prove exist and belive that this one specific book is full of wisdom truth and sense and agree that his rules are good and he is good you know just cause “he” says so in his book , unless we agree that that sounds like a good use of anyone’s time, and is the healthiest way to deal with life and nothing bad ever comes from it and none of it is asking you to belive some really bizarre unproven things and think that there couldn’t possibly be another way, or we’re just not honest about it and never express our view point ever about anything religious, then we’re antisemites ......that’s how the logic your putting here comes across.

-how are you this fucking dense -   ... litrally insulting me...  but ok: Or maybe apprently you don’t know what you’re implying?

are you really gonna ask how you were insulting while you compared us to dogs? - 

.......ok first off you know that’s a well known saying/metaphor right? If I said “you’re look a gift horse in the mouth” you haven’t litrally done that ether and your gift is not litrally a horse or being compared to one. Second I “compared” us both to dogs...and i’m not a Jew....I was also a dog in that situation!  ....or at least that’s how I was picturing it: one dog barking up the tree the other laying in the grass chilling watching out....a metaphor is not me acturlly saying we are dogs🤦‍♀️.....do you not understand sayings? ok without the saying, what I was saying is: from where I am stood I think your using a lot of time on effort on somthing that’s not real and to me it seems a bit silly but i respect that it makes sense to you, so long as no one really gets hurt, I’m not going to judge you or stop you, i’m just going to mind my own business but be ready to go after anyone who does judge you or try to stop you......so yeah that really wasn’t a insult but apprently you want to stretch for them so...

 - and yea i brought up jews specifically cuz im jewish you dipshit, and as for your “oh woe is me how could i have possibly known”…

your reading comprehension is fucking pathetic- 

ok first off  again the only one throwing insults here is you, the only one calling an actual person names is again you. The only one not trying to understand the other persons point of view or why they said somthing is you. Second you listed “Jews, Muslims and minority faiths” and then use “our”..... grammatically that means yeah you’re likely at least one of those, but it doesn’t specify which. Also I wasn’t ...“woe is me”...ing... i really don’t know where you got that level of drama and victim playing from. I just didn’t want to assume, I had figured you probally where Jew but you could just be a Muslim who cared more about Jews them themselves, or another majority faith, 🤷‍♀️ Hell you could even be a troll pretending to be a Jew, I litrally don’t know you  so I have no idea who you really are and have to take your word on stuff just like you do me. And you didn’t fully clarify so I didn’t just assume. And all i’m saying is funny how quickly your dropped your “defence” of Muslims and other faiths and how your not answering my questions about how you view other faiths and beliefs.

-take a fucking step back, reread the original post, and consider what it is about a jew asking that people not mock our beliefs while claiming to support us that made you feel so fucking targeted, and while youre at it, question why you think a call to not mock our beliefs is a call that everyone must hold our beliefs. if you wanna talk about projection youve got some serious fucking introspection to do first- 

here’s the thing, it wasn’t that part, alone, as you are declaring it now.  Cause by the rest of what you said i’m pretty sure your not talking about things like insulting charactures and stereotyping of Jews right? Your not talking about someone crashing a religous ceremony or mocking it, or laughing at /ripping off your religious clothing ,or Phyically trashing your book ,or visiting your temple and violating the rules or yelling their own views and how stupid everything is during the sermon, or telling you Jews are demons (or somthing not human and insulting) ,or Acturlly picking on you for being a Jew or any stuff like that? Cause yeah ok those are mocking and insulting, gross and deeply disrespectful,. That would be a horrific way to treat you and I’m not defending any of that, I would want to punch anyone who did those or alike to you. Heck I would even defend you if someone outwardly called you dumb just for believing in the possibly of a god because who fucking knows, nothing in life is 100% certain other than we here and we’ll die.

 But that’s not on the lines of the exarmples you have, which to me seem very dramatised and exsadrated anyway. But by the rest of what you said i’m betting you’re talking about people saying stuff like “ i’m not gonna lie I think it’s kind of daft that you think snakes could litrally talk but if that’s what you want to do ok” or “ok I think it’s kind of silly to waste your life trying to please someone you don’t even really know is there but it’s your life” and “ you know there’s a good chance you only belive what you do cause you where brought up to” ...and those aren’t mocking you they’re disagreeing with you and expressing a diffrent point of view. They might be hard to hear but that doesn’t make them insults, it doesn’t mean that person thinks less of you! over all i, and i’m pretty sure most on the left, would never really mock you only express our own point of view of things, we might mock and insult you back if you first mock us or try to convert us and won’t take our no and reasoning for an answer, cause your being really fucking rude then. But if you say your going to the temple most of us we’ll say” ok have a nice time” and mean it!  if you say you need to pray about somthing we’ll say “ok cool go ahead” and mean it!( though some might Be uncomfortable depending on context Ei if your just going to pray away cancer and not get treated),  if you ask us if you can pray for us or somthing most of us will be cool with that but we’ll be honest about how we view religion too and we’re not going to agree that everything in your religion is wise, super healthy and sensible, we not going to lie and tell you we think any of it is true . We don’t think religions are true, at best to us it is a heavily myth based self written history you want to belive in, but if it brings you a sense of fulfilment then we won’t judge you we’ll support your right to belive and practise that because we all have our things like that; so please tell me what is insulting, mocking and wrong with that?! Religous people often belive i’m ether a demon tricked fool or some rebelling monster who wants to sin and deny god so I can wallow in my evilness.....now those are pretty insulting, but when religous people just think what I belive is dumb and wrong 🤷‍♀️ Cool we deeply disagree but ok. It’s not insulting, sure I might agrue why I have that view ,but they just don’t agree on my view of things. and if you find that insulting or mocking then logically you just have a problem with anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with you 

-but you can do that introspection on your own, im not in the mood to continuously coddle you assholes while you stumble fecklessly through learning basic decency, so learn that shit behind a block- again the only one throwing insults or being “undecent” to anyone is you. The only one belittling here is you. And blocking helps nothing but ok i’m still going to write this reply cause your sense of logic bugs the crap out of me. Have fun thinking anyone who dosen’t think religion is truthful and pumped with wisdom is antisemic .....I really hope you get my point some day though cause thinking that way can’t feel good. i have litrally 0 hate or hosititly towards you,or any Jews for being active Jews, or your faith or your right to practise it in any land, so on, and that goes for all religions. but you can keep being mad at me cause you think people who think organised religions are largely a scam,or the old books are more myth than fact,  hates you or thinks less of you and has a problem with you or your faith existing .....really don’t but 🤷‍♀️ i’ll still help you stand for your rights against those who acturlly do hate you and are hostile towards you and your right to faith.