#JVP still sucks

[perfectlyvalid49]

You’re right actually. I didn’t read it because the fact that JVP kinda sucks is just one of those things that “everybody knows” and someone else had reblogged that link recently, and I was being lazy and just grabbed what was at hand. I apologize.

So, let’s go through it. To start – the founders and advisory board are demonstrably Jewish. The members and even some chapter founders are not necessarily Jewish (https://www.commentary.org/articles/joshua-muravchik/not-so-jewish-not-for-peace/ ). A few years ago there was a scandal when people found out that the person running their facebook page was located in Lebanon. There are about 40 Jews in Lebanon, all of them elderly and no one believes that they’re the ones running JVP’s socials https://unitedwithisrael.org/suspicions-mount-that-the-organization-is-a-front-for-arab-anti-israel-propaganda/

In addition, here’s a tumblr post with pictures from JVP’s socials about celebrating Chanukah. Note that in both pictures the Shamash is not lit (or even present). If a single Jew had been present, these pictures would not look like this (for anyone who isn’t Jewish: You light the Shamash first, use it to light the other candles, and then place it in the holder that’s a different height. It would be in the middle slot in the top picture, and the far left in the bottom one.) https://www.tumblr.com/hero-israel/731823517606297600/heres-how-jews-for-jesus-in-palestine-lights

So while their founders may be Jewish, whether or not any individual member is actually Jewish is questionable. And the people running their social media accounts, and therefore some of the louder voices that people outside the organization hear, don’t seem to be. It’s not “race-traitor bullshit,” it’s “there are non-Jews in an organization that claims to be Jewish, and that paired with some of their actions/stances is deeply sus.”

I can’t follow your link to Xitter – it wants me to make an account and I refuse. I googled the author and I didn’t see anything relating to the IDF, but I’ll take your word for it. Having seen what you’ve been posting for the last few weeks, I am curious what you define as pro-Israel disinformation though.

I don’t know why you can’t copy/paste and why the links don’t work. That does suck. Like I said, I apologize for not vetting the link I posted.

I don’t see where AMCHA lists “thinking about criticizing Israel” as antisemitic. I can see how *actually*  criticizing Israel could be considered antisemitic because when most people criticize Israel they either do it in an antisemitic way, or they are using criticism of Israel as a cover to being more broadly antisemitic. It’s also very probably that this list is generated by people involved reporting it to the website, which means that someone at each of these events was made to feel uncomfortable enough by the JVP presence that they felt the need to report it. That doesn’t make it an attack, but it does mean that it’s more than nothing.

The LGBTQ attack is probably not mentioned on the AMCHA website because that tracks events at colleges, which the parade was not. Also, you say that he makes it seem like it’s a pride event, but it says that it’s at the Celebrate Israel parade in the first sentence of the first paragraph in that section. It also specifically says “Celebrate Israel Parade” in 3 out of the four HEADLINES of the articles you and he linked. I know that this is the piss poor reading comprehension website, but I don’t think that you’re arguing in good faith here. Also, nothing said that the infiltrators were queer OR Jewish, just that they infiltrated LGBTQ groups, that those groups were deliberately targeted (said the Executive Director of JVP in the articles you linked) and that they scared members of the LGBTQ groups that they had infiltrated. Why target the queer groups specifically for infiltration if not to scare them too?

As for the blood libel and greedy Jew cartoons. They’re dog whistles. Just because you can’t hear them doesn’t mean that other people can’t.

There are a lot of Jews who love Israel. Many of them are people who fled ethnic cleansings or genocides themselves and found safety in Israel. Calling them “garbage people” for loving the only country that would take them in after their country of origin tried to kill them is pretty shitty. Having said that, I there is some historical truth on that shirt (not as much as you think, but if we get into that, you’ll block me for sure).

The “fabricated holidays” in question are probably Yom Hashoah (holocaust remembrance day), Yom Hazikaron (Israel’s Memorial Day) and Yom Haatzmaut (Israel’s Independence day). I can see why a person might think that represents an oppression to freedom story – IF THEY WEREN’T JEWISH AND DIDN’T KNOW HISTORY. Israel’s Independence day is when they signed their Declaration of Independence. Yom Hashoah is the anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. This post is just another example of JVP being shitty and ignorant – and by claiming that Jews are just using the holocaust as an excuse to be shitty, that is the first step down the road to holocaust denial (you’re using it as an excuse, you’re making it up, it wasn’t that bad, etc). If it isn’t holocaust denial outright, it’s DEFINITELY antisemitic.

The Mapping project was literally featured on a neo-nazi livestream: https://jweekly.com/2022/07/18/bds-groups-map-of-jewish-boston-shows-up-on-local-neo-nazis-livestream/ I can’t speak to the rest of his claims, but the fear of it being used by white supremacists to target Jews is not unfounded.

He does not say they’re equivalent. He’s saying that they’re spreading the same propaganda, which will have equivalent outcomes. I also find it very telling that if Stormfront isn’t the originator, then neo-nazis are pulling their memes from anti-zionist creators. It’s almost like they have some beliefs in common.

Jewish supremacy is another dog whistle. And he’s not saying that it makes them David Duke, he’s pointing out yet another way that JVP is walking the same paths as anti-semites. He may be a little overblown in his claims, but at the heart of it, he’s right. JVP routinely displays ignorance of history, of Jewish custom and uses antisemitic talking points in their quest to aid the people of Palestine. There are ways to advocate for them that don’t require that.

Anyway, here are a handful more links to stuff we didn’t even get to talk about

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I know you’re rabidly anti-zionist and liberal with the block button. If you decide to block me for this, so be it. But please know that there are ways to be anti-zionist without being antisemitic and I hope that you can figure that out for yourself. I’m happy to try to help if you don’t block me.

if you live in the us and have literally 2 minutes to spare go fill out the form here -- it will give you a script and also prompt a phone call that will patch you through the the office of your district's representative. specify that you will not consider voting for them again, or for any elected officials, if they don't call for an immediate ceasefire and end to us funding of genocide. jewish voice for peace has a lot of other action items, most of which can be done from home if you aren't able to attend a protest.

[aguineapigcouldntdothis]

Hello! I don’t know if this has been asked before, but what is Hinenu: The Baltimore Justice Shtieb and why are they a shady organization? I’m genuinely asking because I’m a Jewish woman from MD and have never heard of this organization until I saw you mention it so I was wondering about why it’s bad.

theyre nothing special, just the typical JVP-supported congregation that tries to make themselves seem special by stating a thousand times how they're queer and POC supportive. which are great things, just not anything special when there's plenty of congregations in the area who share those values. basically they are more focused on being a congregation of leftists than a congregation of jews and in general any organization that is connected to JVP is bound to be weird

also as far as I've seen based on their site they've shown no support for the hostages, their families, families of oct 7th victims, Israel in general, or other causes that the majority of jews care about. Id guess that they are antizionist or nonzionist at least.

the reason I said they were shady is that they tend to be the landing place for jews that are heavily leftist and living in or near Baltimore. to the point that they cannot bear being in a congregation with a person who even cares a bit about israel. I would be suspicious of any congregation that seems to care more about targeting a certain audience than actually addressing genuine concerns jews have rn.

also, there are plenty of wonderful congregations in and near MD. if you're not in Baltimore, Annapolis, or DC, the drive is gonna suck ofc, but they're still there. as long as you're not desperate for a possibly antizionist and extremely leftist synagogue then you dont have to worry about them. im assuming you're not into that so I wouldn't worry too much about them :)

[somehwere-between]

I should be doing work but instead I’m kind of parallel-posting with a mutual about Judaism woes.

I was invited to Seder by one of my profs (who is anti-Zionist, but she can’t be vocal bc my college sucks) and the synagogue is pretty damn small— like 20 people tops— but I still feel awkward because I am so vocally pro-Palestine and I don’t really want to be told I’m not “Jew enough” again. But my prof has the exact same path I have (born & raised Christian in the South, started journey in college, etc etc) so she’s on my side, but still. I do have a local JVP chapter that has accepted me as I am and has some conversion classes since I wasn’t raised in it, buuuut I hate online courses + I’m half deaf so Zoom isn’t exactly my first option.

I’ll figure it out somehow because I’m stubborn but yeah this sucks wooo

[scientologisabethmoss]

went to a free palestine rally this afternoon in my city. it was really wonderful to see so many families with their young children out at the march, and it was also heartening to see JVP posters being held up in the crowd. it was not wonderful, however, to have the organizers start a chant of "settlers, settlers, go back home / palestine is ours alone" and have the crowd yell it back. idk man. it just really fucking sucks. israel is ethnically cleansing gaza right now, and that feels like the biggest, most pressing issue at the moment, so you can't help but feel like a dick when you want to stand, and are standing, in solidarity with palestinians, but then some young organizers decide to chant something antisemitic about israelis "going back home," and you can't help but want to back away, at least a little bit. i know it's supposed to be a quippy little protest chant, but it could have as easily, you know, NOT been included amongst all the other "free palestine / from river to sea" chants.

i hate having to hold my nose and tolerate at least some antisemitism in order to stand in solidarity with palestinians and take the moral stance against literal genocide, but that increasingly feels like the only option. people are being murdered, you don't want to center yourself right now amongst so much senseless bloodshed, but it's still exhausting nonetheless. it just feels very isolating to be an anti-zionist jew at the moment.

[it-was-me-zion]

i definitely don't know everything about mikveot or the rules surrounding them but just off the top of my head the like, One Big Thing about a mikveh even before we had stable cities or dedicated buildings - when we were "people on the move" as JVP so disgustingly put it - is that the water can't be stagnant. which is why

ok i went to actually look up rules for the construction of a mikveh and what counts as one and y'all they have rules for "what if someone left wine jugs out to dry in the rainy season and water got in them can we put that water in the mikveh" and the answer includes a provision for "how do we tell if they actually left the jugs out to dry in the rainy season, this is israel it simply doesn't rain in the dry season so why did they do this in the rainy season and if they did put the jugs out to catch water that's drawn water so it's not allowed."

also "what happens if one of the workers (YEAH I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU YESHUA FUCK OFF) left their bucket in the mikveh and then the water was let in and some of the water got into the bucket what's up with the water in the bucket (YESHUA IF YOU JUST TOOK CARE OF YOUR EQUIPMENT LIKE WE'VE TOLD YOU A THOUSAND TIMES WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS MESS-)"

anyways. a mikveh MUST be connected to a naturally occurring water source, and does not serve the function that the jvp clip seems to indicate (it is not about "connecting to the water" or even really about receiving blessings from the water itself). add in the fact that jvp is intensely disingenuous about pretty much every jewish tradition or event they've participated in over the past several months and i certainly don't blame the majority of jews from sneering at this shit.

now, something that comes up on the topic of accessibility and inclusivity - a big thing with mikvehs IS full immersion (a mikveh cannot be a mikveh if an adult person cannot fully submerge), which can be a problem as mentioned further up in the thread. it would probably be worth exploring another system for those that would like to participate - perhaps smaller tubs for those whose disabilities would make full submersion difficult, or a program that gives people access to portions of water from a mikveh or naturally occurring water (such as a spring, rainwater, etc) for them to engage in the mikveh in their home/private.

ok please explain why you all hate teacup mikveh so much

because the appeal of creative ritual seems pretty clear given mikvaot are some of the most inaccessible jewish spaces there are. i mean teacup mikveh specifically was created during the pandemic but even otherwise

unless it's for conversion, most mikvaot can't be accessed if you're read as a woman and unmarried (unless you lie), or if you have a visibly trans naked body. does that not describe most of jumblr?

[notaplaceofhonour]

JVP is an antisemitic hate group, it sucks, and I’ve spent plenty of time documenting and talking about how awful and antisemitic they are, including this post. I have an entire tag (#fuck JVP) devoted to it. But the claim that they weren’t started by Jews or don’t have Jewish leadership is just false.

Yes, many of its members are goys, and non-Jews have been caught #AsAJew-ing for them on multiple occasions.

But JVP was started by Julie Iny, Rachel Eisner, and Julia Caplan, all of whom are Jewish. It wasn’t Anti-Zionist back then, and while they still promoted some extreme, fringe rhetoric back then, their JVP wasn’t nearly as openly antisemitic as it has become since turning full Anti-Zionist.

Their current executive-director, Stephanie Fox, is also Jewish (as past directors have been) and their rabbinical council is listed on their website:

idk who most of them are, but of the ones I recognize, I know they’re Jews who broke off from their communities as they got radicalized.

While individual chapters may not have Jewish leadership, many do, and as an organization JVP definitely does.

JVP is like Autism Speaks in a lot of ways, such as claiming to speak for Jews while advancing fundamentally antisemitic talking points and positions, and tokenizing its Jewish members to speak over and silence the majority of the community. It is an antisemitic hate group.

The fact of the matter is that its leadership is an extreme fringe of Jews who have disconnected from broader Jewish community & been radicalized into stripping Judaism for parts to expropriate it to gentiles and sell out the rest of their people. They’re definitely antisemitic, and there may be an argument that they have become a separate, heretical sect of Judaism (much like early Christianity) that should be declared separate & antithetical from Judaism, but it’s very important to oppose their antisemitism without misrepresenting who they are.

This only bolsters their ability to radicalize Jews on the fringes by giving them ammunition to push the narrative that everyone is lying to them about JVP and that we’re just brainwashed by Zionist propaganda when they find that this isn’t the case.

I’m honestly not surprised. JVP, SJP, and BDS are all scummy, but the Columbia chapters are some of their most consistently, openly, publicly ghoulish