#if veilguard was DA2 part 2

[liaragaming]

If Veilguard was DA2, Part 2

Can't get out of my mind how much I think Varric's final word should have been "Hawke." Can't get out of my mind how the devs threw around "bird names" for the DA4 protag before landing on Rook. Can't get out of my mind how DA Exodus has a cast of characters that "Solas doesn't know." So... here's a fun thought experiment:

Progtag = Hawke

Veilguard opens with rescue mission into the Fade to save whoever was trapped there in DAI. You play as your Inky to recover either Hawke or the Warden. This character is changed by their time in the Fade, and I think the physical world would be very jarring to return. The Lighhouse would be a happy medium of existence for them.

Crows = Zevran

Offers more nuance to Treviso. Zevran would want to bring the Crows down, but then who protects the people? How does Zevran balance those two sides? Does he favor one over the other? Does he struggle with the choice? How about the player?

Fade Expert = Anders

No Mourn Watch, sadly. But how has Anders and his relationship with Justice been doing since the rebellion? Does being in the Lighhouse/Fade, give Justice more control? Inky has found a way for Anders and Justice to separate via the Avvar - would Anders want that? Mirrors the question Lucanis faces over whether or not to separate from Spite.

Shadow Dragons = Fenris

Fenris is the founder of the Shadow Dragons. Would offer a slightly different perspective on things as he probably wouldn't harbor any love for Minrathous like many other Shadow Dragons. His journey could mirror Neve's in a sense where he has to decide if he's a protector of Minrathous or just a hunter of slavers.

Elven artifact tinkerer = Merrill

May or may not actually be part of the Veil Jumpers. But she would certainly want to know everything. The Archive spirit adds a similar conundrum for her from DA2. Is it worth all costs to preserve elven culture or are some things worth letting go? In what ways have her views changed over the years? In what ways have they stayed the same?

Grey Wardens = Alistair / Loghain / Stroud / Hawke Sibling

Hawke Sibling didn't end up in DAI, but I've seen arguments that it should of have been them instead of Stroud, so pick your favorite Warden. The First Warden probably doesn't like them much.

Isabella

Do we need a dragon expert? Even Taash says archdemons aren't dragons. Not sure we need the Lords of Fortune either. I've seen arguments that isabela's role in Veilguard makes no sense. So... free space. Rewrite her story.

Inquisition = Harding

No change!

[wild-magic-oops]

I'd much rather have 2 characters moving on from animosity to developing understanding for each other in the face of having to work together for a common cause, than 2 characters just hating each other and then the game not giving me even a slighty decent reason as to why they should keep inhabiting the same space, especially in a ""friend group"" (which is actually poor writing imo).

[sky-scribbles]

I'm going to say something controversial. I think there's something Veilguard does better than any other Dragon Age game. Namely: incorporating the companions into the plot.

Look, I love Origins as much as everyone. But to be frank: you could cut every companion except Alistair, Morrigan and Loghain and the plot could still work. Once you've finished the mission where you recruit a companion, there aren't other main quests that involve them in any way.

Oghren and Wynne could have stayed home after their recruitment missions for all the difference it would make to the main plot. Sten, Leliana and Zevran could vanish and nothing would change, because once they're on your team, they don't interact with the main plot at all. (There's the Temple of Sacred Ashes, I suppose - but even then, you'd be going on that quest whether Leliana and Wynne were there or not, and it's very telling that they can both die here and next to nothing in the rest of the game is impacted.)

Again: I love Origins. This doesn't detract from any of these characters being great, or from the story being great. It just means there's a layer of separation between the two. They're involved in the story, but they're not driving it, and you seldom get to see them have strong feelings about it.

DA2 is a huge step up. Your companions' personal stories are integral parts of the main plot. You can't do the Deep Roads expedition without witnessing Karl's death and its impact on Anders. You can't enter Act 2 without seeing Varric's brother betray him, or watching your sibling either die or begin a new path in life. Act 2's climax happens because of choices Isabela and Aveline have made. Act 3's endgame is all about Anders making one enormous decision. Even Fenris and Merrill, who have the fewest ties to the plot, have strong reasons to be invested in the Mage/Templar conflict.

And then Inquisition just... backslides. There are multiple companions you don't need to recruit at all, or can send away with zero alteration to the main plot. Your companions don't like Corypheus because he's bad, but no one - except maybe Varric - has any strong personal feelings about him. They have no personal stake in defeating him, not like Alistair has a personal stake in opposing Loghain, or Anders in opposing Meredith.

We go to the Winter Palace, and Vivienne is not made a part of that story. We have a whole subplot about the Wardens, and Blackwall only gets a couple of extra lines, if you even bring him. Their personal arcs could have been somehow impacted by these missions, and they're just... not. Sera is packed with internalised self-hatred that manifests as trying to distance herself from elven culture, to the point of sometimes lashing out at other elves. And despite all the missions you do where elven history features... Sera's growth past that flaw happens entirely offscreen between the base game and Trespasser?????

IMO, this is one of the biggest reasons why Corypheus is such a bland villain. He doesn't make anyone grow, except by starting a plot for them to be part of. He doesn't challenge them emotionally. No one is invested in him. Because no one interacts with the darn plot.

Veilguard, though? Veilguard keeps your companions interacting with the story the whole way through. The Treviso/Minrathous choice affects both Lucanis and Neve heavily, and impacts who they become for the rest of the game. These cities are personal to you, even if you're not a Crow or Shadow Dragon, because your companions love them.

The Siege of Weisshaupt is beyond personal to Davrin and Lucanis, both of whom are entrusted with major parts of the quest: trying to kill the archdemon and Ghilan'nain. Lucanis is affected by his failure to kill Ghilan'nain for ages afterward. Davrin is haunted by survivor's guilt; he should have died when he struck down the archdemon. He's alive. How can he live with that?

Whenever killing the gods becomes a possibility, Rook hands the lyrium dagger to Lucanis. When the squad go to fight the gods' dragons with the Wardens, Taash is the one to flush the first dragon out. When you infiltrate the Venatori, Neve tricks your way in, and everything that happens is especially weighty to Bellara, whose people have been abducted. On Tearstone Island, because of how Lucanis and Spite have grown, they strikes true.

Did you not hate Elgar'nan before that mission? Because you probably will after you watch him capture Bellara or Neve, and see his fellow god kill Harding or Davrin.

You know what's a great piece of writing? There's no reason Emmrich shouldn't have been an option to deal with the wards on Tearstone Island; he's one of the ideal options to take out more wards with the Veil Jumpers in the final mission. But you can't select him to do it. Because Emmrich has far less personal investment in the Elgar'nan battle than the other two. This is Neve's city. This is the monster who tries to call himself Bellara's god. The game makes sure the characters who take control of the Blight at the end are the ones with the greatest stakes in doing so.

One of your companions, not you, wrests command of the Blight from Elgar'nan. The final mission depends on how well you've come to know each companion's skills. They're just... always involved.

And they're invested, too. The companions all have serious personal reasons to hate the antagonists by the end. Lucanis and Neve have either seen their city burn, or know it happened at the cost of their friend's (and potential partner's) hometown. Davrin has seen his order devastated. These are Bellara's and Davrin's supposed gods, and instead of helping the elves reclaim their history and culture, they're trying to enslave the world. Harding learns that the Evanuris maimed and destroyed her Titan ancestors.

Emmrich and Taash have perhaps the smallest emotional tie - and sadly I do think Emmrich especially gets underutilized in the plot. But heck, Taash is still hella motivated by the way the gods are abusing dragons. And Emmrich is tied thematically to the main conflict. He's facing the question of immortality, while nigh-immortal beings are right in front of him, proving how that gift can be abused. The final choice of his personal arc is whether he's willing to embrace his personal, mortal attachments, at the cost of consequences that terrify him... you know, the same question that Solas faces at the end.

And don't even get me started on how everyone is emotionally tied to Solas. Harding and Neve watched him kill Varric in front of them. Everyone not dead or captured has to watch him drag Rook into the Fade. Just about every companion faces some kind of huge regret or failure at some point, in constant foreshadowing for Solas's prison of regret: both the literal one he sticks Rook in, and the mental one of his own making.

Veilguard has its problems, but it absolutely shines at keeping its characters involved and invested in the main story. It gives them things to do, it gives them reasons to care. For all the flaws this game has, this part is good writing.

[nadas-dirthalen]

Dragon Age: the Veilguard Was Packed with Lore — But Many of Us Overlooked It

— PART ONE — [ 2 ]

Welcome back, friends and travellers. If you've been here a while, you'll know that I wrote 30,000 words of predictions in the week and a half before DA:tV released. But here's the most surprising thing—I was right, for the most part.

I spent my first Veilguard playthrough grinning (and then sobbing) at all the lore reveals. And here's the thing: I think most of us missed a lot of them, including even me.

So let's begin with...

Titans: Dark and Light, Compassion and Rage, the Eternal Hymn and its Endless Listeners (1/2)

This is your warning: This post will contain spoilers for the entirety of Dragon Age: the Veilguard, and all Dragon Age content made before Veilguard.

Alright, pals. If you've been here a while, you know how this goes. I always start by listing what we're going to cover, like anyone who's never fully recovered from academia.

Today's Discussion:

What Veilguard (Re)Taught Us about the Titans

The Titans the first Shapers of the known world.

The Titans are beings of the Abyss.

The Titans are sleeping, dormant—but alive.

Dwarves are the Titans' children, created to tend them.

The Evanuris mined the Titans' bodies to create people.

The Titans—the Earth—fought back.

What Veilguard (Re)Taught Us about the Titans

The best thing about Dragon Age, as someone who loves the series to death, is that its worldbuilding is consistent, but also bears the unique quality that we, as players, are not aware of it all. Our protagonists in each game don't know everything; the people they learn from also don't know everything. We learn what we can through codices that are all biased and need an extra layer of decoding. This is a feature, not a bug.

It also means that we did not know how to understand the Titans before. Even my 30,000 words of theorycrafting, especially my piece all about the Titans, had elements of speculation. I had to check that speculation against other sources like the Chant of Light, which is a source that we REALLY did not know how to decode when it was revealed piece by piece in DAO, DA2, World of Thedas, and Inquisition.

Here, I'm going to break it all down, piece by piece.

The Titans were the first Shapers of the (known) world.

It is said in the Descent DLC that Titans are enormous beings whose singing shapes the world. Their existence predates much of Thedas, if not all of it. The Titans are called the first Shapers for this reason, and in Veilguard it is restated several times over that they did, indeed, shape the world—for instance, by Cole in Inquisition.

"Their ancient shapers were mountains drawn of all their wills, walking their memories into valleys of the world." —Cole dialogue.

Inquisition told us so much more about the Titans than just that, though. The Titans have a realm all their own, a counterpart to the Fade, mentioned over and again in the Chant of Light and referenced as a quest name in Inquisition.

Here lies the abyss: the well of all souls.

The Titans are beings of the Abyss.

Now, it's important that I mention right here that the Chant of Light has existed long before Inquisition. In fact, its tale is what opens DA:O as the game begins. Recently Eurogamer stated that BioWare has had a massive lore document for the 20+ years of its existence, and I believe that there is no truer example of this than in the Chant of Light itself.

The Abyss, for a long time, was a mystery to us. Inquisition cleared it up a lot—not only with its game content, but with World of Thedas' publication shortly thereafter.

Not only is the Abyss referred to in many elven codices, but we go there. The key locations of the Descent DLC—the Forgotten Caverns, Bastion of the Pure, and the Wellspring—are in a region called the Uncharted Abyss.

Now, with Harding, we go deeper into the Deep Roads than the average dweller. The same is true in that instance: venture down far enough, and we reach a Titan's heart.

We find a Titan's heart there. But the Titan does not wake—none have before DA:tV, and even then, they have not fully woken. Because, for as long as we have known...

The Titans are sleeping, dormant—but alive.

"It's singing. A they that's an it that's asleep, but still making music." — Cole dialogue.

There is so much Cole dialogue in Inquisition that speaks on the sleeping Titans, on their old songs that once sang the same, on how they will never wake up, that it would be folly to try and post every codex here. Suffice it to say: Cole knows of the Titans, knows of their songs, and knows they are asleep. He is one of the pathways to our knowledge of the Titans in Inquisition, and his words are peppered throughout the game.

The Chant of Light also makes reference to a mountainous Maker, who oft speaks about a forgotten mountain. When Andraste meets the Maker "in darkness unbroken," specifically, these words are used:

The Maker Appears to Andraste (7) Eyes sorrow-blinded, in darkness unbroken There 'pon the mountain, a voice answered my call. "Heart that is broken, beats still unceasing, An ocean of sorrow does nobody drown. — Andraste 1:7

Heart that is broken, beats still unceasing — a being who has been broken, but whose heart still beats. We can hear that, in the Descent DLC.

Veilguard confirms that both sources are true through Harding, her personal quest, and the codices for the Dwarven people.

Records that exist outside of Orzammar mention "great sleeping Titans" and "the First Ancestors." — Codex Entry: Harding's Notes: Orzammar and Titans

Harding's experiences in Veilguard, in this way, serve to prove Cole right. That is a deliberate narrative choice: BioWare's way of saying, Yes, this is true. Yes, you should take Cole's take on Titans as correct.

We also know, from Cole, that this state of being is permanent. Not only are the Titans asleep, but they don't know how to wake.

Songs screaming far away. It wants to wake up but can't remember how. No one should be here. — Cole dialogue.

This becomes crucial information in Veilguard, and central to the main plot. It serves as the backdrop for what actually matters most to the characters living in Thedas right now, which is...

Dwarves are the Titans' children, created to tend them.

By now, a lot of people have seen this reveal in the art book: the dwarves were created to tend to their Titan hosts/makers. But we knew this before—we just didn't know it in context, and therefore we did not believe it to be objectively true of Thedas.

In truth, we've known about the elves and the dwarves' origin since the Chant of Light came out in full with World of Thedas volume 2.

At last did the Maker From the living world Make men. Immutable, as the substance of the earth, With souls made of dream and idea, hope and fear, Endless possibilities. — Threnodies 5:5

I talk about it in more depth in my Chant of Light dissection, but what this verse says in context is that the dwarves (the Maker's second children) are beings crafted by the maker: bodies made of lyrium, souls made of the same "dream and idea, hope and fear" as the original spirits.

This concept has already been massively hinted toward with both Valta (who has become The Oracle in DA:tV) and Dagna, who both connect to isatunoll during Descent and Inquisition's base game, respectively.

We've known about the Evanuris' horrible crimes since before Inquisition, as well, for the same reason and from the same verses in the Chant of Light.

Until, at last, some of the firstborn said: "Our Father has abandoned us for these lesser things. We have power over heaven. Let us rule over earth as well And become greater gods than our Father." (8) The demons appeared to the children of earth in dreams And named themselves gods, demanding fealty. — Threnodies 5

With the context given to us by Trespasser and Veilguard, we know without a doubt that the Evanuris are those "jealous spirits" that comprise the Maker's first children.

And just like the Chant describes, they sought to conquer the earth: the realm of the Titans.

The Evanuris mined the Titans' bodies to create people.

Trespasser taught us so much of what we needed to know about the Evanuris' and Titans' conflicts. Its codices in the Deep Roads outline how it was Mythal, specifically, creating some of the first elves in the coffins found in that zone. The Temple of Solasan features coffins of the exact same kind.

Ir sa tel'nal Mythal las ma theneras Ir san'a emma Him solas evanuris Da'durgen'lin Banal malas elgara Bellanaris, bellanaris. — Codex: Torn Notebook in the Deep Roads, Section 3

My (updated) translation: Isatunoll Mythal gives you dreams Lyrium within Becomes Solas evanuris Little stone boy You give nothing to the Titan (anymore) Forever, forever.

Trespasser reveals that Mythal mined the bodies of slain titans and rendered their demesne unto the People: she conquered Titans and used their bodies for her own ends. The hints about these actions, however, are not exclusive to Trespasser, nor to Solasan. These seeds were planted all the way back at the Temple of Mythal.

Elgar'nan, Wrath and Thunder, Give us glory. Give us victory, over the Earth that shakes our cities. Strike the usurpers with your lightning. Burn the ground under your gaze. Bring Winged Death against those who throw down our work. Elgar'nan, help us tame the land.

This codex to Elgar'nan makes reference to Elgar'nan giving victory over the Earth (capital-E, the Titans). Trespasser would follow this up with much context—that it was Mythal who was first known to have slain Titans, "rendering their demesne unto the People."

I theorized that Mythal's mining of Titans for lyrium to make elvhen bodies was what angered the Titans, based on codices in Trespasser and the Temple of Solasan. (I go into much more depth there!) Veilguard confirms this theory in Solas' Memory #4: A Memory of Manifestation.

Solas: I have the Fade. Besides, this talk of taking on a solid form. When you took the glowing stone to build your body, did the earth not shake? Mythal: The lyrium gives us the strength we had when we were of the Fade. We are the best of physical and spirit.

Mythal's crime was what took the war with the Titans in a new, darker direction. It was what would set off the chain of events that would change the very nature of the world—and it was foreshadowed, back in Inquisition, by Cole.

The Titans—the Earth—fought back.

"They made bodies from the earth, and the earth was afraid. It fought back, but they made it forget." — Cole dialogue.

In this post, I theorized that it was Solas' creation itself that caused the first Titan to "go red." That is to say, to change its nature and fight back. I used codices from Trespasser and Solasan to get there, as well as one paragraph from World of Thedas and this codex on Fen'Harel that describe the Forgotten Ones as "beings of terror, malice, spite, and pestilence."

Thinking about those words, and specifically terror, I read the codex in the secret Deep Roads room in Trespasser with fresh perspective.

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.

Terror. The first of the turned Titans. The fire/plant/ice imagery also caught my eye, and when I went back to Solasan to check, there were many hints that this was, indeed, where Terror came into being. (For more, go look at the most recently linked post in this section!)

Huge implications for Solas aside, what this codex taught me is that Titans' natures could change. This was confirmed in Veilguard many times over, yes—but my point here is that Inquisition taught this to me, just a few days before I gained the context of Veilguard. This was never a retcon! However, this lore plays exactly to BioWare's rules: we did not have the full context, and so almost no one read that Deep Roads codex as it was meant to be interpreted—including me, the first few times I read it!

It was only when I'd seen the achievement icons before Veilguard's release that it all clicked for me. All of the lore of Inquisition and everything before it made sense. That was never a bug, never a retcon, but a genius twist on BioWare's behalf: one that almost no one guessed at for an entire decade.

One that changes everything.

Titans, we know for certain now, behave as spirits. Obscure hints in World of Thedas, Inquisition, and the previous games have been confirmed in Veilguard. This new understanding changes not just the Titans, not just the dwarves, but reframes everything we know about the entire history of Thedas and how its magic system works.

______

Thank you for reading! It means a lot when people engage with these. And don't worry: I'm not nearly through with them. It's taken me a while to compile everything, but with more of Veilguard added to the wiki every day, it's a lot easier to compile things for these posts!

(Immense thanks to the wiki staff, of course. <3)

Up Next: Titans and Spirits are far more similar than we think, and it means everything.

[trulycertain]

On Dragon Age & Accents

(My unhelpful tuppence, as an English player.)

One small thing I wish had come up in Veilguard from previous games: the accent worldbuilding. It wasn't always consistent - DA:O only seemed to care about country or race, anyone non-human being generically North American and anyone human being mostly RP English unless they were Antivan; for regional accents, they seemed to purely use them for effect or go with VAs' natural ones. (There are about two bandit NPCs who seem to have badly-done Midlands English accents purely because they're not meant to be very bright; thanks, love Canadians reinforcing that stereotype. Anders being Lancashire seems to be pure coincidence because of his voice actor - you rarely ever hear the accent in any consistent way in other NPCs, and it's completely ignored in his very Southern DA2 recast.)

But by DA2, there seemed to be definite trends: Free Marches could be RP English or North American depending where you came from; dwarves tended to sound North American but there were exceptions for some people raised on the surface; elves tended to be either Welsh or Irish, which matches the "very old culture with a linguistically completely different root from Trade/English". Starkhaven is most definitely Scots.

And then DAI! DAI, my love.

DAI kept DA2's trends, while finally giving us more complexity and regional accents, albeit limitedly (and still with some inconsistencies). Finally, we have a (vaguely Germanic) Nevarran accent! And Miranda Raison did such careful work constructing it! The Avvar, Ferelden's mountain folk, sound Northern English. I'd hazard a guess that several sound Yorkshire, actually - this matches the whole "the Orlesians got up there less" lore in real terms; Northern England and Scotland, particularly Yorkshire, was under Viking rule longer than the South, which became Norman-conquered earlier, and there are subtle dialectal differences to this day. (Similar thing happened with the Celts and Romans, and the Avvar are blatantly Celtic and Pictish). There's a reason that RP ("neutral posh") English is Southern, from the seats of power. Cullen's from Honnleath, somewhere smaller and less Orlesianified, and while it's softened by the character's travel and the VA's own posher bents, there are moments the Northern English accent gets leaned into, a little similarity with the Avvar. It's a coincidence but it works so well, lore-wise. Sera's VA sounds... Derbyshire? I think? which is Midlands/Northern border and sounds more than Northern enough to keep a consistent Fereldan sound. And in terms of NPCs? A lot of Fereldan NPCs suddenly start turning up Northern, albeit less broad in their accents! Have a listen round the Crossroads. I remember Gaider mentioning Dorian wasn't originally meant to be Indian, they sealed it for sure when they cast Ramon Tikaram, at which point everyone went, "Yup, let's run with it", cast his dad accordingly, and Gaider figured that Dorian was either part of a pretty big migrant population (which, other than the Dorian Gray reference, the fact his name roughly means "from across the sea" also makes sense), or quite a lot of Tevene folk natively were. Considering Tevinter started as essentially "mage Rome" and morphed into, even according to the writers themselves, "mage Byzantium" and it's very close to Seheron, which I feel is North Africa/Middle East influenced - Tevene folk being akin to folk of Turkish, Middle Eastern, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan and Bengali backgrounds makes a ton of sense.

It is... exceedingly rare to hear working-class British accents in fantasy series at all (unless Brits make them, and then we're still often peasants or generic NPC #2, a la Origins). It is even rarer to have a fantasy series bother to keep immigrant accents and show the moulding of them through the generations. And I can only think of one other video game that has consciously cast British Asian actors, that's how rare it is even in games that supposedly care about representation - despite the fact that Asian folk make up something like 30% of our population.

Now: would I like some more background on why some accents in the Marches sound British and some don't? Yup! Would I have liked to have more regions in the elves' Irish accents and the dwarves' NA? Yup! But do those really matter? Nope! They would have been lovely icing on the cake, but the underlying cake was great. The plot didn't need it. It didn't have to be perfect, and the filtering of British culture through Canadians, and strategic anachronism? Those are things I love about Dragon Age. I loved how much they seemed to be trying and how much they were thinking about the lore. And I loved hearing a "British accent" that finally made sense to me, not played into the long attempts by toffs to stamp out everything North of London or outside England.

And then Veilguard sort of... forgot about it most of it? Adored that we could play as a Geordie! I really, really love them continuing pointed casting of folk with British Asian ancestry for several Tevinters (*waves lovingly at elek and neve*). But then... uh... look! Working-class Tevene people with generic Mancunian accents! To show they're working-class! That's fantastic progress... for Origins. But lore-wise, by DATV we've already shown that Manchester and Northern English accents live... *points at Ferelden* somewhere over there. We're back to "Tevinters mostly sound like generically evil English folk", as in DAO and bits of 2, which, sure, Dorian doesn't contradict - but then why not have everyone sound Southern, like him? Or add a different tint to it? And no, I am not saying everyone should put on bad "ethnic" accents, and I do appreciate the number of American, English and Mediterranean accents in Tevinter showing a very Roman "you're a citizen of the Imperium but you might have been born in one of its several countries" - but…

Gideon Emery's slight Afrikaans tint made a ton of sense with Fenris and what part of Tevinter he was meant to be from, even if it was unintentional; Jennifer Hale's take on Krem was going for English but came out more Aussie to my ear. Something like those could have been really interesting. But that also means that, including Fenris, we've now had several slaves with an accent that reads... quite posh, to English ears. Same with Neve, who is supposedly proudly from the shithole part of Minrathous, but she and several others have very RP "posh" accents (while others like Tarquin and Elek are Mancunian). Now, not everyone picks up their local accent! I am one of those people! I ended up cursedly plummy for a long time! But... we had hints through the series that Tevinter class markers would be very different from Fereldans', but they're now the same, for some reason?

Add that to the fact that they didn't want to make even one VA suffer through doing the Nevarran accent... See, it makes total sense for Emmrich, who's a posh professor who's done a lot of international study and would probably have learned Common as a second language with a very generic, "neutral" accent; he also was very concerned about appearances with his class background and trained himself not to give much away. And I'm sure the Mourn Watch has international students. But no Nevarran NPCs sound pointedly Nevarran? Not a one? Kal Sharok has hints of something interesting going on but it's rare, and the Anderfels is just... full of sad English and American-sounding people. Rivain is supposedly Caribbean and there are a bunch of actors of Caribbean descent they could've cast, but we only have one NPC sound even slightly so? That's when it stops being "Trade is taught with a neutral accent and there are a lot of Fereldan immigrants and slaves in Tevinter" and starts feeling handwavey.

Basically: I wouldn't mind if we'd gone with most fantasy games' "Eh, we cast broadly based on sound, stereotype or none of the above"; I'm very happy to just go with it. However, DAI told me to pay vague attention because the accents meant something. Then DATV has heel-turned and is telling me "Nah, go with it" the way Origins did. My ears are... confused, to say the least. And we're back to "'working-class' has one accent, and characters with something to say who aren't cast as stereotypically plucky underdogs are all Southern and posh", which just... makes me really sad. I don't hear people who sound like me, my family, or my friends growing up, in Dragon Age anymore. I did hear they had a different voice director in DATV, so maybe it's that?

[rpgchoices]

The result of the DA romances survey (>2000 partecipants!) - Part 1

2273 people answered the survey, thank you so much! I truly did not expect such a big number and I am so humbled!

With all this data I wanted here to present the general results, and then work a bit more with correlations (ex. Zevran romancers... who did they prefer in next games?) in a part 2. So this part 1 will be a summary (with graphs) of the whole survey. The original survey was here on google form, I reopened it only to allow people to check how each question was written.

This first part is divided in:

General considerations on the sample size

General data

Dragon Age: origins (spoilers)

Dragon Age 2 (spoilers)

Dragon Age Inquisition (spoilers)

Dragon Age The Veilguard (no spoilers)

1. General considerations on the sample size

The survey was open from 16th November to 23rd November and 2273 people answered.

A consideration always must be done of the sample. In this case I wanted to underline that the places where I shared the survey and especially where it found track are well represented, while I definitely missed other portions of the fandom.

In general I shared the survey on tumblr (here), on twitter, on blue sky and on reddit. On twitter and blue sky I received a very small number of likes and retweet, while mainly the survey was shared on tumblr and it received comments here on reddit. Twitter, tumblr and bluesky are more correlated to a closer circle than places like reddit, so for completion sake: my rpgchoices tumblr is mainly about queer romances and videogames with queer content, my twitter is less DA-focused (actually only DA focused recently) and my bluesky is very very small.

Also keep in mind that people who have access to playing data will always have the correct data, because this sample size here reflects the online active fandom (mainly on reddit and tumblr) and not the general player base!

Another thing: I really regret not adding a question about age, gender and where you found the survey!

2. General data

The first question is, of course, which games did you play? People could choose multiple games at one:

I was quite surprised to see that Inquisition was the game most people played, but in general these was little difference between the three main games: DAI, DAO and DA2.

Veilguard (in violet) was divided between "Finished at least once" and "playing" and the sum of the two is 1998, which puts it just after Trespasser.

DAO DLCs are also the less played in general (with Darkspawn chronicles the least played), but with Awakening more played than DA2: Legacy and DA2: Mark of the Assassin.

Now, jumping into romances:

The majority of people seem to have a canon romance for each game (56%). 26% of people instead have different player characters for different romances (just like me!) while 15% of people mix it up!

Regarding the total characters that can be romanced in all the games (please ignore the colors, I messed the up... I am sorry):

For these graphs we can look right at the top and see that in both cases: Alistair is first. Alistair was the character that was romanced at least once and also multiple times the most. The order is the same for the first group of characters (in order): Alistair, Fenris, Zevran, Anders, Solas, Cullen, Dorian. The rest is relatively similar, with only some swaps.

For Veilguard (in violet) the numbers are smaller because the game is still new, so not many occasions to romance multiple characters. Lucanis in both cases was the most romanced in Veilguard and the one most romanced multiple times (126).

There was also another general question at the end, regarding other videogames with romances:

Congrats to the 5 people who played Hero-U rogue to redemption (it was adorable).

The question was framed with (for example) "Baldur's Gate games" so any game from 1 to 3. All these games have romances and are rpg, also if not all of them have queer romances.

Probably thanks to BG3 we have Baldur's Gate games in first place, with 1941 people (almost close to the full amount of the sample!) who played them, followed by the Mass Effect trilogy and Elder Scroll games.

If I can personally recommend games on the bottom half of the list: Pendula Swing (1920s urban fantasy, no combat, queer romances, female protagonist), Sorcery! (male or female protagonist, only 1 romance option who is a guy who tries to assassinate you, 4 games, text rpg, lots of choices, fantasy), Enderal (free pc mod for Skyrim with its own world, lore and story, one of the best game opening scenes ever if not the best, fully voiced, action rpg, queer romance, two tomance options) and Rogue Trader (isometric rpg in Warhammer universe, no knowlegde of the world or lore required, sci fi, turn based combat, multiple romances, queer romances, 1 d/s romance where you can choose to be dom or sub) are among my favorite games ever.

3. DRAGON AGE ORIGINS (spoilers from the game)

Alistair was the romance most favorited by people who answered the survey, with 38% of people choosing him, followed by Zevran (26%) and Morrigan (18%). A very small amount of people (3%) had no one as their favorite/canon romance.

Second fav romance was basically the same graph again!

Regarding the player character:

Female human Warden (Cousland) was the Warden that seems most played by the sample size, both for being considered the canon one (surpassing second place: female city elf, by almost double) and for being played at least once.

I also found it interesting that the order of female and male characters is the same. In general female Wardens are more popular (68%) but the order of popularity for origin being played at least once is still: human noble, city elf, dalish elf, elf mage, human mage, dwarf noble and dwarf commoner.

For what is considered canon, the order seems to change, with city elf male falling down the other elves, and human mage being even less popular.

There were also two questions about Morrigan and Alistair's destinies, but people let me know I missed some options, apologies! So take these with a grain of salt:

4. DRAGON AGE 2 (SPOILERS)

For favorite romance in DA2 we have Fenris taking even a bigger % of "fav romance" than Alistair in DAO (and keep in mind Alistair had less competitors!), followed by Anders (24%) and Isabela (15%).

Interesting for the second favorite romance it is the "No second favorite, only one favorite" that wins with 31%! This means that in DA2, a 31% of people just have a strong preference for one romance only.

Regarding the player character (Hawke):

(top graph) purple female Hawke seems to be the one that is preferred as canon Hawke, followed by purple male hawke. Red hawke (both genders) was the least chosen one.

(bottom graph) in general, Marian Hawke had a higher number of players (played at least once as) than Garrett Hawke, but the difference was not as big as we saw between female and male protagonists in DAO.

(pie graph) regarding the customization, the majority of people (51%) customized all of their Hawke, indipendently from gender and playthrough. A big number (33%) instead used the default Hawke, while others preferred a mix of the two (depending on gender or playthrough).

VARRIC!

39% of players would have romanced Varric in DA2 if he had been available! But interestingly this pie is divided in almost equal parts between yes, no and depending on how the romance actually was (which was the one I chose!).

5. DRAGON AGE INQUISITION

Solas was the most chosen romance (as favorite or canon) in DAI, with 25% of people choosing him. Dorian is second (18%) and Cullen third (15%). The no one (3%) is comparable to the same answer in the previous games.

Maybe unsurprisingly Sera was the least favorite romance among the companions (sigh... she is my canon one), with The Iron Bull also having very similar numbers to her (that surprised me, I admit it!). Josephine was the favorite female romance in DAI (11%).

As for DA2, when I asked about the second favorite romance there was a high number of "no second favorite" (19%), followed by Dorian, then Josephine. I think the fact that we do not have the same order as before (Solas, Dorian, Cullen) might mean that the Solas and Cullan romancer are very dedicated to their romance, especially Solas - who had only a 9% of people that chose him as a second favorite romance.

Regarding the Inquisitor:

Female elf (Lavellan) had an incredibly high number of people choosing her as their canon inquisitor, more than double second place (human female). The rest of the Inquisitors are not too different (a part from dwarves who again get the least amount).

For the question "which of these inquisitors did you play at least once" the order of the choices are pretty similar, with "female elf", "female human", "male elf" and "male human" (in this order) at the top.

Regarding the choice for Divine Victoria:

The majority (60%) chose Leliana as their Divine. In second place instead we had no canon Divine or a change based on playthrough. Vivienne (my Divine!!!) was the least chosen one (I am starting to feel some of my choices are very unpopular haha).

Now, for who did you leave in the fade:

It is pretty clear that (black and red graph, last on the right) Stroud was the easiest to leave in the fade.

(blue and red, first graph on the left) Hawke was also saved the most in games that had Loghain as the other option, with a similar percentage of people that chose to leave Loghain (82%) or Stroud (85%).

Surprisingly this flips (central graph, grey and red) when the choice was between Alistair and Hawke. Hawke in this case was the one left in the Fade, even if in less extreme % (67%), with Alistair being the one usually saved. Which checks out given Alistair was the most popular romance choice in DAO among the people who answered this survey.

6. DRAGON AGE VEILGUARD (NO SPOILERS)

And here the tentatively presented Veilguard results! I say tentatively because we are still very close to release, and a lot of people did not have the time to experience the full game or multiple romances.

In fact, only 11% of people completed multiple playthroughs. 46% completed the game at least once, while 31% are still playing it for the first time.

Regarding the player character, I only added questions regarding factions as they seem much more influential than elf/qunari/dwarf/human:

This was a multiple choice in case people tried different factions! Shadow Dragons, Mourn Watches and Grey Wardens have very similar numbers and are the top three. Surpringly, Veil Jumper was on the bottom (with Lord of Fortune being the least chosen).

Regarding the romances:

Before players started the game it seems like they had an idea among the characters who were romancable, with a lot of people being interested in the three male characters (Lucanis, Emmrich, Davrin) followed by Neve, Harding and Taash. Surprisingly, Bellara was even lower than "none/no spoilers".

In the first game, people followed more or less what they were interested in, with 28% of people going for the Lucanis romance, followed by Emmrich (19%) and then Davrin (16%). Following we have Neve, Harding and then Bellara, which this time surpassed Taash.

When we look at "who is your favorite romance" (graph on the left) we see that things changed based on expectation/who you tried to romance first.

Lucanis is not first anymore, but we actually have Emmrich (23%) as the favorite romance, followed by No one (19%) and only then Lucanis (15%). Davrin is in fourth place with 14%. The rest follows the same order as before, but all the female characters and the one non-binary characters are under "Multiple beloved equally" which is 9%.

Regarding the second favorite romance, maybe (because the game is so new) it is to be expected that the option that wins is "None/I only have one" with 36%, followed by Emmrich (16%) and then Davrin (13%). Interestingly, Lucanis fall to just a 7% under the "Multiple" (11%). I think (like we saw before for Solas and Cullen) it seems like the people who like Lucanis romance him and might not have a second favorite.

I hope you enjoyed this summary!! I cannot wait to make even more graphs and see what else is in this data!

[handsomeamoeba]

Dragon Age: The Veilguard as Text Posts [Part 4]

DAO: [ 1 | 2 | 3 ] DA2: [ 1 | 2 | 3 ] DAI: [ 1 | 2 | 3 ] DAV: [ 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 ]

[roguerambles]

Anyway, I love Dragon Age the Veilguard--

Don't get me wrong, it's not flawless. But I definitely think the people insisting its god awful are being way, way too harsh. And considering the troubled 10 year long production and the game being rebooted like what, 3 times? I'm happy with the end result.

I think once the dust has settled a bit Veilguard will benefit from the "Dragon Age 2" effect - a lot of people hated DA2 when it first came out for not being like Origins, but after a while looked back and appreciated the game's strengths more.

I love the companions, I love the environments, I love the Solas storyline (and this is coming from someone who was kinda meh on him in Inquisition) Act 3 ripped my heart out in the best way possible. I love how the game answers a lot of lore questions while also setting up some interesting new developments (the Blight? The Qunari? Those from Across the Sea? Very interested to see where that goes in the future)

Seeing some of the cut content I'm a little disappointed at some of what we lost along the way (although I'd wager that's more EA's interference than a choice on Bioware's part) and some of the present day lore could have been better explained (the explanation for the Antaam breaking away from the Qun should not have been regulated to a Codex entry) but overall I'm very excited to see what the future holds for Dragon Age.

Now excuse me, I'm off to begin another Veilguard playthrough--

[felassan]

GamesRadar: "It felt like we needed to do something": How Varric Tethras went from nearly being left out of Dragon Age: The Veilguard to becoming a foundational character

Interview | Exploring the role of Varric Tethras in Dragon Age: The Veilguard with BioWare's creative director, John Epler

Excerpts under cut due to spoilers.

John Epler: "Varric is such a fan favorite, and has been part of Dragon Age since Dragon Age 2 – it felt like we needed to do something. At the end of the game, it's very clear that a chapter of Dragon Age is being closed, even as a new one is being started, and having Varric involved in the ending and that final beat in the way that he was felt right to us."

""While it may have "felt right" for Varric to be in Dragon Age: The Veilguard and factor into its ending in this way, says Epler, it took some time for the team to come to that conclusion. With such a long development cycle, the loveable dwarf wasn't even part of the story at one stage. "It's interesting, because in some of our earliest versions of what we wanted to do for Dragon Age 4, Varric was not actually involved. Varric was doing his own thing as the Viscount of Kirkwall," Epler says. "But I think especially as we got to the version of Dragon Age: The Veilguard that shipped, it felt very strange to have a story about Solas not also include Varric. For us, having them [Solas and Varric] exist in contrast throughout the story - obviously, with Varric being something existing entirely in Rook's mind - provides different ways of looking at the core theme, which is regret." As Epler explains, Varric is "not someone who does a good job of confronting his regret", whether that be in Inquisition when it comes to his love interest and crossbow namesake, Bianca, or with his brother in DA2. Rook, on the other hand, is forced to confront them, while Solas's regrets "drive everything he does." He's a character that "refuses to be happy, refuses to feel joy, because he feels it'd be a betrayal of his people, of what he's done". But as Epler adds, having Varric "be the kind of linchpin" around which all the regrets hinge "felt powerful". Varric may not be good at confronting his own regrets, but his death and role eventually pushes Rook to face theirs, and in turn, you can try to help Solas get past his own if you so choose.""

"Without a mark on your hand like the Inquisitor in Dragon Age: Inquisition, or an army you can bring together like the Grey Warden in Dragon Age: Origins, Rook is "just a person with a team", as Epler puts it, so you have to make sure that they're as ready as possible to face what's to come. [...] Epler says Varric felt like a natural character to juxtapose Solas. Acting kind of like "the angel and the devil on your shoulder", Solas - while not actually a devil - is the one who's more focused on the mission and goal of stopping the gods, while Varric constantly reminds you that your team matters and you need to take care of them first and foremost. The decision to kill Varric early on was partly fueled by a worry that people would find Solas "a little too sympathetic in his goals". From past experience, Epler says the team saw a lot of that with The Trespasser DLC, where many really wanted to help Solas and believed he was right. But he is going to end the world, after all, and once you realize the twist about Tethras' true fate, Varric serves to demonstrate that "Solas will sacrifice almost anyone or anything in pursuit of what he sees as the greater good." But even if he is willing to go to extreme lengths, Solas does still regret what happens to his old friend. In fact, Epler explains that he even finds it comforting to think that Varric is still out there in some form. "Varric's a complex character," says Epler. "He runs away from his problems, he likes to shade the truth, even to the people that he's working with. The Varric that you see, the Varric that Rook experiences, [are] the best parts of Varric that Rook remembers. It's just this mentor figure that's always there for them. And I think even Solas finds some comfort in knowing that there's still a piece of him out there, even though he knows that it's manipulation, it's not the real Varric."

""DA2 starts with a character death about 45 minutes in, when your siblings dies. And the feedback we got, which was very fair feedback is, 'okay, but I don't care, because I've known this person for like, 45 minutes'. So having Varric die at the beginning, originally that was it. He was going to die, and it was going to be this big, shocking moment," Epler says. "But part of the problem with making a game 10 years after the last one, and needing to make it so existing players – but also new players – can get in and feel a lot of the same things, is you can't bank on two games worth of built up memories, built up attachment, to make the death land. For a lot of players it would have been like, 'okay, but I've only known this guy for 45 minutes. So why do we care?'" In order to still have the death at the beginning of the game, the team eventually landed on the idea of his not-so-real presence in the Lighthouse in order to give players more time with Varric. "And that's the beauty of game development," Epler adds, "something that you start off with as a way to solve a problem actually becomes so core to the identity game.""

"Varric Tethras was originally brought to life by Mary Kirby, a veteran developer who has worked on the Dragon Age series for many years at BioWare. Sadly, she was part of the layoffs last year, but as Epler fondly highlights, Kirby wrote the vast majority of the conversations you have with Varric. "She was one of the first people we told 'Hey, so we're talking about killing Varric, you're okay with this, right?' Because at that time, she wasn't even on the project," Epler says. "But Mary was fantastic to work with, she and I worked [together in the past]. I was Varric's cinematic designer for Inquisition and for DA2. There are a couple of things that came up towards the end of the project that I had an opportunity to write. And it was lovely to remind myself how Mary had always written Varric, and how that character came together.""

[source]

[rookamell]

I think I've boiled down all of my complaint about Veilguard to to things

1.) Lack of a companion dialogue wheel in the Lighthouse

I think whoever made this decision seriously misunderstood what the wheel is for. It's not for meaningless banter that you get out on missions anyway, or repetitive dialogue that doesn't add anything to the story, the dialogue wheel has been there since origins to tease out the companions' backstories and worldviews. How much Chantry lore would we have missed out on in Origins if not for Leliana? Or Crow lore if not for Zevran's talking about it? And also I wouldn't know the characters. And the companions are such important parts of the story in Dragon Age. I can't remember if da2 had dialogue wheels, but there were so many other oppertunities for Hawke to interact with the companions outside of that that I think they made up for it. It's also a way to centre Rook's bond with their companions, instead of the companions' bonds with each other. It irks me so much how they get to build such intense relationships with one another but I have to headcanon everything they feel about Rook. Let's face it, 90% of our Rooks' relationships with their companions is headcanon, and like... that's fine, I enjoy doing that and the game gives me enough that I can realistically do it without having to make up too much, but I've always thought like the companion relationships with each other I can headcanon off of banters from missions. Rook's relationship with them or whatever protagonist we're talking about has to be built and shown in game because me as the player should be the most important piece on the board. Sorry, that's just how videogame writing works. That's why Tav works in bg3 even though they're just as much of a 'nobody' as Rook is. I don't mind that Rook isn't all powerful or competent or whatever other critiques there are out there about Rook. I love Rook, they're probably my favourite da player character, but I want to feel that the companions love Rook too, or at least know them. I didn't feel like that with anyone other than Lucanis and Davrin.

Which brings me to

2.) The game isn't long enough.

I know people are going to argue with me on this one and that's perfectly fine, everyone has preferences about how long a game should be or not, but just bear with me for a second. The biggest part of this game is obviously 1.) the main questline, and 2.) the companoin quests. I actually like that there isn't too much other than that because I get completionist anxiety about sidequests but that's beside the point. My point is I don't really have an issue with the pacing of the main storyline, but if you are going to centre the companions in this game... finish their fucking storylines. I think Emmrich's quest is the most well-rounded out of all of them, and I still would have added at least two more quests to his. In fact, I would add at least two more quests to every single companion questline, and three more to Lucanis's. And do not get me started on the scenes with the companions. Though this could also be fine if they'd added the dialogue wheel. Because then we get bonding through that instead of having to put a whole cutscene in there. But anyway, yeah. Every single one of the questlines were rushed and it irks me SO MUCH because they could have been SO GOOD. Also the hardened character should have had alternate quests and cutscenes instead of just... not having any content. Neve got a few scenes, but Lucanis just... isn't a character if you harden him.

Tldr: the two main issues I have with Veilguard that could have basically fixed the game for me is 1.) a companion dialogue wheel at the lighthouse and 2.) a longer game.

[bunabi]

I am so ready for this game to get swept under the rug and forgotten. Like, I'm happy Veilguard is giving an extremely specific subset of Solavellans exactly what they asked for but it's diddly squat for everybody else. The romances? Tepid. Continuity? Where. Choices mattered? Not even in the room with us. I can't even say I had high expectations but the game and the fandom have managed to limbo under them like the bar was on fire.

I can't do that. Even though companions and plot and lore continuity are the backbone of DA I don't wanna throw out everyone's work just because those parts fell short*. For me, personally, imo, etc.

Honestly if we're serious about DA5 not having another identity crisis or another painful dev cycle it has to be remembered. The good and the bad. I don't want them to go through what happened with DA2:

Dragon Age 2 hung on the team like a shadow, haunting Laidlaw and other leads as they tried to figure out which gameplay mechanics would work best for Inquisition. Even after the PAX showing, they had trouble sticking to one vision. “There was insecurity, and I think that’s a function of coming out of a rough spell,” said Laidlaw. “Which of the things that were called out on Dragon Age 2 were a product of time and which were just a bad call? Which things should we reinvent because we have an opportunity moving into this? It leads to a ton of uncertainty.”

Accepting Veilguard for what it is will probably help the community too. We've gotta talk about it. It's definitely helping me to discuss it lol.

[honorofthedepths]

david gaider about top surgery scars [link]

[if you can't read the pictures for whatever reason:

David Gaider: "Apparently the usual suspects are upset at how “woke” the new Dragon Age is, an apparently sudden and unexpected development in the series. Fucking tourists."

user: "Ah yes, the fantasy game with real life elements such as top surgery scars (In a game with magic, really?) and Identity politics. Because representing real life social issues in a game isn't immersion breaking at all and is really necessary for a good game with a sense of escapism." "A character creator that only reaches body proportions a trans person could generally achieve because females such as myself with a D cup can't recreate the character that i look like."

David Gaider: "Did you follow me over here just to tell me all this? How sweet. 1) I suggest not taking character creation options you don't like. Poof! Problem solved. 2) What an obsessively weird lens to look at everything through. Have you tried being less weird?"

user: "How dense are you? You can shapeshift in dragon age Veilguard, there's magic in this world but can't change your gender without top scars? You are in fact looking through the lens of real world social issues in a video game by being politically correct and superficially virtue signaling."

David Gaider: "You want this to be about the top scars? OK, let's go.

1) There's no evidence that shapeshifting can selectively, and permanently, alter body parts. Even if it could, shapeshifters can only alter themselves. Morrigan cannot turn other people into spiders.

2) Even if other magic could alter body parts permanently, and there's no evidence this is the case, not everyone has access to it. One cannot walk into a Circle of Magi and go "remove boobs plz".

3) If your issue is "why not heal?", healing magic also does not do everything. Scars exist. Why does Cassandra have a scar on her chin? If anyone could go "heal scar plz", it'd be her. Recognize there's a difference between the way it works in gameplay and lore, with healing as many other things.

4) If your issue is "how surgery exist?", you're probably looking at our own medieval world. Thedas is, at best, quasi-medieval. There are SO MANY instances of things that, in our world, didn't exist until the Renaissance or even later. It's not our medieval world and never tried to be.

But it's not about the top scars, is it? You've been presented with new information and you just don't like it. You don't want it. Like anyone who balked at the qunari change in DA2. So you try to make it about inconsistency because you feel that's stronger than this just being about YOUR biases." /end]

[tonberrykins]

Alright, I've had some time to gather more of the Veilguard Thoughts(TM), so here's another peeve.

Varric apparently wasn't going to be included in the game (at the very least, wasn't originally supposed to be an integral part) and, like, that makes sense. Dude is Viscount of Kirkwall and Seneschal Bran WILL kill him if he keeps putting that shit off on him. I've met the guy, I've seen what he's lived through, he just wants to have time off to go see Serendipity at The Blooming Rose and maybe have a nice dinner at home more than once a month. He can't do that if Varric is fucking off Maker knows where doing Andraste knows what! So, yeah, Varric ought to be Viscounting.

Thing is, Varric is a fan favorite and I am no exception to that. 12 years I've been carrying a torch for that dwarf and I was huffing so much Copium up to Veilguard's release in the hopes that I would get to smooch him it was unhealthy. Then came The Fear, but that's besides the point. What matters is Varric being a fan fave and Harding was too and therein lies the problem. They were added in because popular, but they were not integral to the story whatsoever. They were used as set dressing and not even good ones; it was literally EA/Bioware banking on fans loving these two to drive numbers against the Unknown.

"But Tonberry!" you say. "What about the whole thing with the Titans? That's Harding's whole story!"

I would like to implore you, if that's your thought process, to examine that and see how that is Not Good. Because let's be real here, Harding herself was given barely anything beyond a cute, country, gal next door personality and "Legs." Where did this fascination with dwarven ancestry come from? She makes zero mention of any of that it's just like 'Well, she's a dwarf so of course she cares!' And I would like to point at Exhibit A, Varric Tethras, who would have been MUCH MORE COMPELLING in her shoes because he clearly has nothing but disdain for dwarven tradition because of how fucked up it made his family. Don't believe me? Replay DA2 and LISTEN. But they fridged him for Emotional Points just like they stupidly did to Shathann (but that's another rant for another day.)

So, if Harding has no logically presented reason for her story arc to be what it is and really was just there for appeasement, then who would have filled her shoes? Dagna is a FANTASTIC choice for one. She's into magic, studies it, so many people have it headcanoned that she made their Quizzy's prosthetic that it could have been easily adopted into canon and no one would have batted an eye. But you wanna know the BEST choice? And one we still could have had Harding around for bc they would have needed a bodyguard anyway?

MUH-FUCKIN' SANDAL FEDDIC!

It has been implied since Origins that he is a dwarf--THE ONLY DWARF--to be able to use magic. This continued into 2 where he also had a weird prophetic monologue before going back to "Enchantment!" because didn't want to scare his dad. And since he and Bodahn were clearly supposed to be in Celene's court in Inquisition we could have found out what happened and gotten him back for the storyline AND still let Harding have her time to shine because who better to help him through the Titans' anger than someone who'd been with him through these recent discoveries and had formed a bond? Too, it's that innate love of people and the world around her that could have helped him form that tether to others, too, or however you'd like to spin it but no.

So, yeah, I'm pissed that Harding turned into a Nothing Burger in the end and that Varric was weaponized against players, SPECIFICALLY ones like me who have loved him since his first appearance. Our hopes were used against us in this entire game and I am now Lot's wife with how salty I am over it.

[explodingchantry]

OK I found the source and, genuinely, what the fuck?

Varric is apparently an important character within veilguard but we don't get to express whether the inquisitor left his best friend to die in the fade?

The wardens are a big part of veilguard but we don't get to express what the inquisitor did with the southern wardens?

MORRIGAN is apparently an important character in veilguard and we don't get to express whether 1. We had her have Kieran and 2. If she drank from the well or not?? You know this important decision that was meant to impact the rest of the drinker's life, and was meant even more vital when inquisition revealed Flemerh was Mythal? I literally just replayed that quest and they genuinely make a huge point out of this decision being life altering. But it's not, is it, if both characters who could've drank show up in the next game but the effects of the well aren't present.

"northern thedas is a blank slate" is such a weird take. What happens in ferelden and orlais (and the free marchés if we bring da2 into it too) absolutely matters to the rest of thedas. These things ricochet upwards. You literally choose who leads orlais, one of (if not The) most powerful and influencial nations in all of thedas. You get to choose the fucking DIVINE. Yeah sure that might not matter in Tevinter, but it matters everywhere else?? The rest of northern thedas follows the chantry even if they might not be as horny for it as the south????

And that's only speaking of inquisition choices. I already made a post somewhere about how very few of the decision input on the keep mattered in dai and how filling the keep often felt pretty pointless because of that. But at least the gender of the hof and who they romanced came up, and the leader of ferelden came up however briefly and flawed.

Honestly dragon age was never actually good at bringing up and taking into account old choices. Da2 had a good excuse for it (set in a completely different country whilst the choices the hof made were central to ferelden only, and hawke being just Some Guy who wouldn't get involved in a lot of influencial stuff the hof had a hand in. And even THEN there's plenty of background dialogue about ferelden that does mention it.) Dai does have a lot of nods to a few things; the ruler of ferelden shows up in in hushed whispers, or if you kept Alistair/recruited loghain they show up for here lies the abyss and might even have a discussion with Morrigan with whom they had a CHILD with. If hof romanced leliana she mentions them quite a bit. Morrigan can show up with the full ass child she can have in Dao and that's probably one of the biggest differences the choices you made make. Some other decisions from Dao are referenced; like who rules Orzammar. And as for da2 it's very true that a lot of the decisions made are much harder to reference due to being more interpersonal, so it does make sense to an extent that the decisions are referenced there through simple dialogue (though that dialogue is flawed as hell.) If it doesn't like some of your past choices it'll retcon it, like if you killed leliana in Dao. Or like, for example, just a random example, you got one of the Dao endings where Cullen goes mad, kills mages and runs away. Never mentioned again that one. Weird.

Bioware loves to give you big influencial choices to make you feel important only to turn around the next game and kind of shrug their shoulders as they do the bare minimum with them. And now, don't get me wrong - some of these choices are really hard to integrate. We basically can never go back to Orzammar because its king changes everything. It's too much to take into account and would change what quests and storylines the player experiences.

But then don't fucking write it that way to begin with lol. At least with Dao you can give the benefit of the doubt with things being meant to be part of a single story - but by da2 they knew dragon age was a franchise and inquisition was written and made with the knowledge there would be another game afterwards. They could actually plan things out and figure out if maybe a choice you could make would require too many resources to implement in the next game, and thus just not actually give you the choice in inquisition. Because the divine, for example, makes a HUGE difference. I fully get that it would be extremely difficult to take all three choices into account - reference them but make them not so integral that the story of the game can only happen if one of those was made.

But then don't make us fucking able to choose who the divine is. I'd rather not have as many influencial choices in a game, but have them referenced and have them matter, than... This.

Who you romance. Whether you disbanded the inquisition. And what you think of Solas. Nothing from Dao, nothing from da2, and only this from dai. That's a fucking joke. It's a joke. A spit in the face.

Many of the fans will have replayed the series in anticipation for veilguard, carefully crafted their choices to be their main world state. Especially with the nice little sales you've had during veilguard's promotional period. And now, only now, after they will have done all of that, you spit in their faces and say that none of what they did in the past games mattered. So why should I finish my inquisition replay? Why should I care?

Meanwhile, plenty of events from the books and comics will not only be referenced but be integral for the story. Fuck you for playing the main games, you're stupid for thinking they mattered. Obviously the static stories of our external media is more important. Totally respectful of the fanbase to do that.

[kirkwallguy]

i agree with your takes on dragon age's relationship with queer content a lot. a straight female inquisitor (bonus point if elf) gets the most romance options, zevran and leliana's romance feels secondary *by narrative* compared to romances of characters who's a warden/king alistair and morrigan, sebastian being bisexual being a cut content*

* i just don't get it why the templar boys always got to be straight. like why can't men engage with their romances and experience this narrative when chantry and religion is so important for the story of these games? after all romance adds a different perspective for all characters.

here we have veilguard, the pansexual crew, and well... the romance content is the weakest in franchise

and i'm not saying queer romances were bad btw!! its just that i wish people who wants to play mlm or wlw get to see such perspectives in the story or these characters' stories too. like a male warden romancing alistair and all the juicy stuff that comes with it (the hurt or angst or the complications. are you sparing loghain? did you just marry the love of your life off to his sister-in-law for the future of your beloved country? did he become a drunkard visiting bars after bars because of the decisions you made even tough you were intimate?)

no exactly! i do tend to want to give them some slack given they're very Of Their Time (for a 2009 game even including bisexual options was scandalous, and dorian's bare bones coming out narrative was pretty standard for 2013 tv shows / rare in aaa games) but it annoys me when people act like they're these flawless beacons of queer rep that you can't criticise just because we should be happy with being given anything at all. even if you don't count seb, 1/2 of the games pretty much require you to play an f/m relationship in order to experience a narratively relevant relationship. i find dai more insidious tbh because like... sure, don't make solas bi for whatever reasons you want to give. but cass and blackwall? there's 0 reason for them to be straight lol. (especially the bait and switch where you're allowed to flirt with cass as a woman for AGES before she turns you down despite characters like cullen shutting you down on the first flirt. it's funny when you do it intentionally but just feels cruel otherwise?) at least leliana and zevran feel like they're doing the most they were allowed to do

a gay or bisexual chantry/templar character who struggles with their sexuality would be SO interesting. honestly it would require more introspection about thedas' attitude towards sexuality than da has ever done - i feel like they could have done a fun subplot with this in da2 honestly.

and the thing about the dav characters is... they went to great lengths to make sure they avoided the playersexual allegations, multiple characters had a past where they dated people of various genders, taash having a preference for women was mentioned (in the weirdest way possible) but i still... don't know how they feel about their sexuality at all? neve is a tevinter mage, did her liking women play a part in her seeing through the issues with the system? does bellara have any lingering feelings about irelin at all? did harding realise she didn't have to be straight when she joined the inquisition and met people outside of her small ferelden town? (potential extra dialogue for an f/f romancing inquisitor???) it doesn't need to be a big Thing, but just a one-off dialogue during romance (davrin m/m exclusive dialogue on your date: "the first time i brought a man to meet my uncle i was so nervous etc etc") or a comment during a banter. it just establishes a little bit more about the characters and stops them feeling so flat... then again ig that's an issue with the whole game LOL.