#if tywins method does not work..

[ilynpilled]

i wish jaime’s arc was never this heavily associated with the word redemption bc every single discussion about him revolves around that word and the baggage people have with it. i know george repeatedly used it when it concerns him, but i obv do not think that means his arc is as simple as going from bad to good. but it is about transformation imo. if it was just about a perspective shift/recontextualization then why would george make him lose the thing that defined him in every way and allowed him to detach himself from everything? it is also not an elaborate trick and a subversion of “redemption arcs”, that is also a reductive and cynical read of it to me. his nuances are never discussed beyond “bad guy is good guy now” or “guy is tricking u he is still stagnant.” imo his motivations evolve, his relationship with the self evolves, his relationship with abstract concepts he craves such as honor, love & knighthood evolves, he evolves: he is one of the characters that is in constant motion, he is always on a journey, he is rarely at a standstill after he leaves the dungeon in acok. it makes me so sad that nothing new is said about him atp other than fandom going in circles about this one word, especially bc i think he is at a key transitional point again right now. i think his arc is about tearing down the “brave golden knight” image in every way until you are left with nothing but harsh reality and a broken cripple. it is tearing apart facades & personas. and then it is the story of what one can make of oneself then. it is about grueling moral dilemmas and the making of choices. and then finally it is about the idea of confrontation for someone who has always been incredibly afraid of it and repeatedly chose to run away inside instead. george deliberately made it so he can no longer do that. that must lead somewhere.

[melrosing]

In ASOS and AFFC are we suppose to see jaime as a bundle of contradictions or something else? He saves Brienne from Loras and then has sex with Cersei in the sept by their dead son. He beheads a rapist and helps Pia but then threatens to kill and fling a baby. He doesn’t tell Blackfish about sansa or that Briene of Tarth is searching for her but ditches his army to run away with Brienne because she said she found sansa.

hmm so I don't know if this is coming in response to yesterday's ask about show!Jaime who I called a self-contradictory character, but contradictions and conflicts are not the same thing.

Jaime in the show is self-contradictory, because he tells himself he'd like to reclaim his honour and fill the White Book with good deeds, then shoves it off the table to fuck Cersei later in the same season and never thinks about it again. the notion of 'becoming a better person' sometimes seems to vaguely cross his mind at random moments, suggesting that as in early seasons, 'betterment' is an important theme for Jaime. but D&D do not want to commit to the theme, and so just wave it around impotently for the drama and to give Jaime's story the vaguest sense of a point, all whilst counterbalancing it with the entirely static relationship of the twins that they occasionally attempt to dismantle before deciding they can't commit to that and building it back up again, albeit unconvincingly

meanwhile, book Jaime also thinks that he wants to fill the White Book with good deeds, continues to mull over the meaning of carving a new legacy and pursuing honour and justice - all whilst struggling with the danger his family is in and the expectation that he should take up Tywin's mantle and methods in order to protect them. he does not abandon his hopes of reclaiming his honour when it suits him (as show Jaime often does) - rather, he clings to these hopes even when this actively works against him (see Genna's critique of Jaime as a leader and Jaime's methods as such). However, Jaime ultimately chooses personal honour in ADWD and does abandon his family - and this isn't contradictory, this is the character's decision in response to the many chapters struggling against the conflicting elements of his own storyline.

And likewise, Jaime's relationship with Cersei is also one of conflict, but not in the sense that it flip-flops - it moves in one direction. Jaime suspects the truth of Cersei, Jaime realises the truth of Cersei, Jaime distances himself from Cersei, Jaime abandons Cersei.

there are often times when Jaime's thoughts will contradict his words, and his words will contradict his actions, but his arc is not a contradictory one - it just encompasses conflicting elements, requiring the character concerned to sort through them in a way that is often drawn out and complicated. sometimes it induces conflicting emotions in him, sometimes it requires him to contradict his own hopes and wants. but it's cohesive and the vision is clear

[kirbybecomesastarwarrior]

Does arthur ever have problems due to his shoulders? Cause like, if Uther has burned his shoulders as punishment for a lot of times to the pint where they're now scared, then he'd probably have shoulder pains or aches. Then again, I'm not a doctor so idk

Great questions... there are a lot of layers to the answers

He's extremely sensitive to people touching his shoulders... it's the reason why he feels uncomfortable with his armor off. There are only four people he feels safe with his armor off; Celestine, Kit Cosomo, Nonsurat (eventually...), and Meta Knight.

Before he fell into madness... he was the equivalent of Tywin Lannister. He knew how to look like he cared & to talk his way out of the situation. He was coldhearted & cruel... but the man was no fool. He knew how to play the game... only appealed to the upper crusts of the galaxy, which allowed him to gain many powerful allies at the top.

Sir Uther was in a high position... this was the leader of GSA, and not many could oppose his word. He was the... strongest warrior in the galaxy (for his time); the Ancients & Absalom (the high priest of the Ancient- an OC I will present later) had appointed him. No one questioned him...

And yes, Arthur got the short end of the stick...

(I changed some things (originally he started as the strongest): but Arthur as a young cadet started out as the weakest... there was no clear winner, but it was clear that Arthur was the weakest.)

Sir Uther already had high expectations for Arthur because he possessed a very rare elemental magic (light magic)... And he was the weakest out of the three (what a waste of rare magic he thought).

He ended up being an example for the other two (Morgan & Nonsurat) "This is what happens when you fail me". The way Arthur's been burned, it's the equivalent of a brand mark... Uther had intentionally done this for control purposes... to put fear into the other two.

Morgan & Nonsurat weren't cruel to Arthur (perse) ... but they ignored him for being the weakest. Constantly leaving him out of their conversations & practice sessions together. (This behavior was taught to them by Uther...)

However, this motivated Arthur to train even harder... pushing himself to the limit (to a very unhealthy amount). In the sense of "Who needs them... I can train without... BETTER EVEN!" Mentally blocking out and ignoring the pain. All the venom came from Arthur... the other two just feed off of that.

When the day Arthur managed to tip the scale and become the strongest of the three... this changed everything. He (Arthur) exceeded Uther's expectations... And finally, Arthur managed to be praised by his mentor... even if it lasted a moment.

This was a high Arthur would be constantly chasing.... Uther saw this and used it to his advantage... he finally managed to produce his perfect soldier (Arthur)... who was willing to do anything for his affection & praise (Uther's scumbag).

But despite Nonsurat (now being the weakest of three), they still had each other... he was the one alone at the top now. He couldn't help but envy them... Like I said Arthur was already venomous towards them (for always leaving him out)...

Sir Uther saw the animosity between the three and took advantage of it... starting a whole new dynamic...

He no longer had to use his "old method intimidation" (he didn't have to lift a finger), he merely had to turn the three of them against each other... (I've touched up on this in Morgan's intro post).

Basically, Uther made the three strongest warriors in the GSA by constantly making them compete with each other (knives constantly sharpening one another). And it worked dangerously better...

There would always be a side comment (from Uther). "You see, this is why... you two, never be as good as Arthur..." turning all their hatred towards Arthur. And he'd watch in content as the mere words would cause them to spring back into action, trying to outdo Arthur ... He'd especially say these things to Morgan, seeing how effective it was as a motivator. Reminding her how close she was to... causing Morgan to foster her hatred of Arthur...

While Arthur's suffered more physical abuse... Nonsurat and Morgan were more emotional & mental... which was just as damaging... they were all scarred by just in different ways Uther...

Speaking of Arthur... he fed his paranoia that Morgan & Nonsurat were constantly out to get him and his spot. Reminding him, " You don't want to experience being at the bottom again..." And would merely touch the pauldron... and would trigger him to go back and work twice as hard.

Ignore all his aches... and pains... Which is why Arthur has such a high pain tolerance... He was never going back down... he didn't want to be discarded... he didn't want to feel worthless again. The burns on his arm are a reminder of those times...

Which is why it was especially painful for Arthur when he found Uther... Regarding this post (What Kind of Kings in My Blood)

I plan to explore more of this later please say tuned~

[captain29thegamer]

What is your favorite character in Game of Thrones (TV series)? Why are they your favorite?

Personally I quite loved:

Tywin Lannister.

Yup,he may be a villain and a hypocrite but it was Charles Dance’s flawless acting that really made this character work for me. Besides,while villainous,meaning antagonistic to the main characters and the Starks,Tywin was a sensible politican and a capable military leader. He wasn’t cruel without measure and even when cruel,there was a method to that madness. Always a reason. He seemed to dislike unnecesary cruelty. For example,while he did order the murder of Princess Ellia’s children,he didn’t want it to be so brutal. Killing the king’s children during a coup d’etat was horrible but sadly historically always seemed necessary,to extuingish the bloodline and discourage any supporters to rally around an heir that would present a problem to a new regime. I don’t recall him wanting Princess Ellia murdered. He probably understood it would mean issues with Dorne.

I remember after Ned Stark’s execution:

Tywin was pragmatic. He knew that Ned’s murder served no purpose. He didn’t have any love for Lord Stark but he still understood the political significance of such a decision. He also didn’t seem impressed that Cersei got rid of Ser Barristan Selmy,offending him in process.

Of course,when it came to Red Wedding,Tywin was merciless:

Again,cleverly done. He himself manages to dodge any blame for the act, using Bolton and Freys as pawns in this. But he didn’t lose any sleep over dead Northmen. Still what he does is always backed by some logic and reason,that in medieval politics does make sense.

I really grew to like his character during his interaction with Arya:

Some of the best acted scenes in the series. It made Tywin somewhat sympathetic.

One thing about Tywin that ultimately did cost him his head was his relationship with Tyrion. His hatred of Tyrion was a complicated matter. Was it just his dwarfism? Possibly. But I think it was also the fact that his beloved wife died during childbirth. Tyrion’s presence probably constantly reminded him of the wife he lost because of his birth,and whom he genunely loved.

That’s just my two cents.

[hukkelberg]

full ask kept getting an error message so i'm seeing if splitting it up works.

this is obnoxiously long bc i am coping w s3 by thinking about pen in asoiaf-verse esp in light of asoiaf always providing v complicated family dynamics that bridgerton glosses over even tho the material is right there❤️ i am also offering a preemptive apology for harping on the arya/tyrion and pen parallels but i just love the thread between those characters of being the parent's (cat for arya, tywin for tyrion, and portia for penelope) least favorite kid despite being the most similar to that parent. okay so actually the tyrell turf is the reach (highgarden more specifically) - they managed to get out of the war of the 5 kings virtually untouched (aside from loras' death) but cersei is fucking them over despite the fact that they are allies in the last book released - i think marg (who would probably be best substituted by someone like daphne) is still being held captive by main westerosi religion's army (that cersei just. let them have bc that woman is genuinely stupid. that whole shame meme came from that same army also imprisoning her. she literally did not even consider that being a problem even tho no westeros king has ever let religious leaders have armies for that reason specifically). i stopped watching the show in s4 bc dany is my girl and by that point the final season had dropped so i saw no reason to continue given how they massacred her. decently sure the tyrells end up completely or near completely killed off in show but it was one of the really weird show decisions everyone hated and grrm had no hand in so the asoiaf tyrell fate is v ??? still. esp now that marg's dad knows cersei had his daughter imprisoned on false charges and is heading to king's landing to deal w it in a v anthony challenging simon to a duel way - anthony would be having an excellent time. his problem solving methods are hilariously well-suited to this world. all of that does sound like the bridgertons could manage it tbh? also wrt benedict i think he would be killed like loras - sorry benedict. genuinely no clue how he would be spending his time in this world. maybe he lives somehow and is then pen's househusband? the tully turf is in the riverlands, which are completely fucked by the war. i actually thought a lot about pen having tully ancestry since she has tully coloring (the red hair and blue eyes) but i didn't like it bc the tully house has extremely mediocre sigil + words which would be annoying to me personally. i do think portia being from the riverlands and ending up w a northern husband like cat could work tho. pen's family could be somewhat influential in that case but still looked down on by southern westerosi bc of their different culture and distance from king's landing. the north is also v fucked by the war so it would still fit. my other thought was pen's family being a kind of mormont equivalent - jorah fucked them over by racking up debt and then resorting to selling ppl into slavery and then getting exiled. sounds kinda familiar for the featheringtons. issue w that is that the mormont girls are known for being trained to fight bc the ironborn constantly bother them and that's not the vibe to me for pen's family? idk tho - faceless men do also receive fight training so it would be helpful later on ig. (1/3)

oh friend dont get me started on season 3 we'll be here all day (they're never gonna go where we want them to are they? Thats the mark of a goodbad show)

okay!! i got it, i just didn't know the name i was thinking abt the riverlands bc i remember seeing someone say how their position in the centre of it all means every army trudges past them and i was like lmao the bridgertons cannot hold that territory. i think margaery = daphne is inspired what i wouldn't give for daphne to be half as cunning as margaery. a terror for high society tbh. Anthony's sense of honour is sometimes medieval (#commentary not approved by a historian, please refer to jacques le goff or whomever for confirmation) so i think it fits in a way. this world is laxer in some ways which i think would loosen anthony up a little, but in a way which mirrors the more outwardly violent way of westeros (his temper shall be fearsome).

hear me out wrt ben: willas tyrell (if that's his name), the older one with the bad leg. Anthony is still the head of the house, but ben was apprenticing with the kingsguard or whateve, and he got in an "accident" (everyone is envious of the bridgertons as usual but here they actually do something about it) i think it'd be wonderful if he went back disabled and everyone was bemoaning it and he was like "this ruins my chances of marriage but at least i don't have to kill anybody" meanwhile COLIN is loras--super well loved, athletic and handsome. i suppose he gets killed. pen would most definitely get a crush on him like that, in that way sansa used to dream of knights and then. Well. If we go the penben route, which i am always happy to entertain, i think it'd be very cute if they reunite after she comes back and he's got his bad leg and ruined future and is so confused about why she'd want him when she's so grand and powerful, and it'd be a lovely role reversal.

re: the featheringtons i agree about the tully colouring but i don't think portia has the tully character. I personally cannot picture any of the featheringtons as northerners whatsoever, not even the mormonts. i don't think they'd last a day past the vale (thats where lysa tully is right? I've not been googling anything I'll have you know sjjdjd). My take is they're affiliated with the lannisters. I think perhaps featherington is a vassal lannister house, which drew portia in on reputation and wealth, which featherington immediately squandered and was probably disposed of by tywin, if he could be bothered to deal with the minor flies. then the wars started and he just let the featherington house to rot or sacrificed them or something. probably took their house etc. you can use that to forge a connection with tyrion, even.

[a-libra-writes]

GoT Imagines - When You're Engaged to Someone Else

Woooo this is a doozy and I'm including new characters, mostly book ones! because i both love my followers and have lost my marbles.

In this preference, you'll be pining with: Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Sansa Stark, Jon Snow, Benjen Stark, Jory Cassel, Mance Rayder, Eddison Tollett, Pre-Reek!Theon, Yara Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy, Daenerys Targaryen, Jorah Mormont, Missandei, Grey Worm, Tywin Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Sandor Clegane, Bronn, Jaquen H’Ghar, Petyr Baelish, Robert Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Davos Seaworth, Margaery Tyrell, Brynden Tully, Edmure Tully, Brienne of Tarth, Ramsay Bolton, Roose Bolton, Oberyn Martell, Doran Martell, Arianne Martell, Tyene Sand

Ned Stark

He’s already an expert in suffering in silence, so this should be no different. Although he’s very surprised at the sudden arrangement, and while he isn’t a man to throw his rank around… He wonders if he can’t convince your family to reconsider. If it’s simply impossible, Ned would resign himself to having to stop the relationship. He’s too honorable to ever consider an affair and he’s not a man to start a duel or cause trouble, especially since it would negatively affect your reputation. The heavy combination of missing you, pining after you all over again and feeling like he didn’t do enough is hard. Some days he entertains the idea of still having a friendship, but it doesn’t seem like a good idea. He doesn’t trust himself.

Robb Stark

The young wolf tries to accept it, even if his feelings become more and more angry each day. Robb never threw his name around, but… he was going to be Lord Stark. Wasn't that good enough for your family? For you? He tries to be the bigger man, but if you're miserable with your spouse and they don't treat you well, he can't keep his temper in check. Expect him to have a sudden outburst at a feast and cause a scene. The only thinking keeping him from an outright duel are his parents and his worry about your reputation. But if he was pushed to it….

Sansa Stark

She should've known this would happen. It's the fate of all ladies, yet there's a bitterness that tugs at her when she hears the news. Sansa tries to bury her feelings around others, but she's never done that with you. She expresses her disappointment and sorrow, and swears she'll help if your spouse turns out to be awful. She doesn't want them to be, but she doesn't want you beginning to prefer their company, either. She wonders if her affection for you would wane if she just pined from afar and tried to keep her feelings to herself.

Jon Snow

Ah yes, once again his bastardry is hitting him straight in the gut. Jon knew it was going to happen eventually, he already felt like the relationship was on a timer, and now it’s finally ended. He’s convinced there’s no getting out of it, because even if you did - you’d never be able to be with him in the open. It makes Jon glad he’s going to the Wall; hopefully the distance and cold will dull his feelings. In spite of that, sometimes he’ll tell Sam about you, and he speaks so mournfully it makes Sam think that distance hasn’t done all that much to help Jon’s pining.

Benjen Stark

He should be the bigger person and accept that this is for the best. He’s sworn to the Wall, and you two shouldn’t have been sneaking around. He should be relieved neither of you were caught. None of these thoughts are comforting. Ben tries to cope by making not-so-joking jokes about you running off to the Wall too, or perhaps he should take Yoren’s job and find his way to your court once in a blue moon. Then there’s no joking, and it’s just bitterness. He removes himself from your life after that, not wanting to hurt you with his own negative thoughts. He’d rather you keep the happy memories.

Jory Cassel

He accepts it, not that it brings him any pleasure. Jory's always been proud of his service to the Starks, but he's long understood that his landed seat is not a valuable one. Whenever he married, if he did, it wouldn't be someone as lovely as you. The announcement still hits him in the gut and he dejectedly tries to break it off (though it's easier on him if you do it). If he was in charge of guarding you, he'd switch shifts immediately and begin avoiding you, thinking it'll make things easier.

Eddison Tollett

This relationship already seemed too good to be true, so it’s abrupt end is not surprising. He’s sworn to the Wall and you both were sneaking around to begin with, so this should have been expected, but… it just makes him feel even more tired and dumb. Sam and Jon notice how little he sleeps and that he’s begun to skip meals, and he doesn’t have to explain why. They can do the math. Edd at least doesn’t try to bury any sad feelings or memories. It’s too exhausting to actively try, and it’s something to keep him company while he works. Maybe the feelings will fade… eventually.

Mance Rayder

It's one more reason for him to leave the "South" and go past the Wall. He knew a proper relationship with you wasn't possible because of his vows, but watching you go through this sham of an arranged marriage is just depressing. He'll comfort you best he can until he has to go back to the Wall, though he won't make promises he can't keep. Having to separate from you weighs heavy on him for a long time, and is one of many reasons he abandons the Watch.

Theon Greyjoy

What the hell is this? Hearing the news ruins his whole day, worse if he wasn’t able to hear it directly from you. He’s the heir to the Iron Islands, and his interest in you was clear as day! No, he hadn’t proposed yet… but he was getting to it! Now some mainlander beat him to it? Theon is absolutely seething. He’d prefer to duel your spouse to teach them a lesson in front of everyone, but he’s open to more boring methods like reasoning with your family. If he wasn’t able to change the engagement, he’d be bitter, and more than willing to carry on an affair behind your spouse’s back. He ought to just go the Ironborn route and kidnap you for himself.

Asha (Yara) Greyjoy

When you give her the news and you’re clearly distraught about it, Yara considers carrying you off to her ship right there. If you’re non-Ironborn, you’ll be her saltwife -- and if you’re Ironborn, she wants to have a discussion with whoever the hell planned this when everyone KNOWS you belong with her. You hadn’t expected this possessive behavior, but now you know Yara’s willing to fight for you as soon as someone takes you. No surprise, she’s more than willing to sneak around with you behind your husband’s back - maybe she can goad him into a duel. That would certainly solve a problem, wouldn’t it?

Victarion Greyjoy

He doesn’t understand at first. Victarion had made it clear that you were his, hadn’t everyone known that? No, he never made any sort of formal marriage, but not because he didn’t care. He felt like there was no need, hadn’t everyone known? If your family and spouse are Ironborn, he’ll immediately sail to their keep and raise all seven hells, and marry you right there in front of them. If you were sent away to the green lands, it would take the combined power of Balon, Yara and Aeron to keep him from sailing off immediately and just kidnapping you - preferably after killing your spouse. Victarion is pissed. Someone is going to pay for this.

Daenerys Targaryen

She’s just as mad at you as she is with whoever arranged this ridiculous match. Daenerys doesn’t often entertain arrogant thoughts, but… How could anyone think to match you with someone else, knowing your relationship with her? She feels she ought to be offended, though Daenerys knows this is hard on you as well, and you didn’t ask for it. She’ll think of some clever way to get you out of the arrangement, no way is this person getting away from stealing from her. And yes, that might as well be what it is! While she’s working out what to do, if she so much as hears murmurs of the possibility of your spouse hurting you… all bets are off. She’s taking you back with her, alliance be damned.

Jorah Mormont

The announcement of your engagement is a punch to his gut and a shock to his system. Jorah knew he wasn’t the best husband material, but he was planning to ask for your hand himself - then this happened. What’s worse, he knows as far as practical marriage goes, he has little to offer. He goes into a bit of a panic as he tries to think of what to do. There’s sensible choices, like trying to talk to your family with you. Then there’s not so sensible ones… Maybe running off, maybe just continuing the relationship behind your new spouse’s back, maybe dueling them… While Jorah is in emotional turmoil, he’d do anything for you. Even if you wanted to break off the relationship… or had a plan for him to follow. He’s nothing if not hopelessly devoted.

Missandei

… Oh. Maybe she shouldn’t have expected you to stick around for so long. As close as she is to Daenerys, she really has no fancy titles or things to offer. She understood why your family chose the match, it was a good one, politically speaking… but that does little to soothe her. Quite the opposite, a strong, desolate feeling overcomes her, one she hasn’t felt in a long time. She isn’t sure what to do, if it’s her place to stop the process. Perhaps if you asked her, she could try to make plans. Daenerys would help as well, considering how fond she is of you two, and how much she despises women being forced into arrangements.

Grey Worm

The sudden news takes him off guard, and sends him into a bit of an existential crisis. He was starting to see himself as a person, with his own name and a path he chose to follow… then this arrangement happens, and he’s forced to face what the rest of the world sees him as. It’s not that Grey Worm has a sense of ownership over you, but for once he was allowing himself all these happy feelings and memories with you, and now it’s gone. Of course he wants you back, but he feels paralyzed. What if he makes it worse? Does this have to happen? He starts to become even more withdrawn and distant, worrying Missandei until she decides to help. Grey Worm finally returns to his old self when he has you in his arms again.

Tywin Lannister

His steady composure is hit with such a rage at the news, the servant delivering it goes into a panic. His interest in you was obvious, so anyone doing this was trying to spite him. He doesn’t take the insult well. Perhaps before you’re even able to tell him the news yourself, threats will be delivered to both the spouse’s family and your own - Tywin is especially furious towards them, and won’t forget this - and incidents will be arranged. He refuses to be a man who pines after someone or covets another one’s wife, nor will he allow some lesser lord to take what he perceives as ‘his’.

Tyrion Lannister

The angst hits him like a ton of bricks, and it’s even worse if this came out of left field. It hurts less if he hears it from you, but only just. He should have known your family wouldn’t have accept any proposal he made - and gods know he was ready to do it - it’s just one more log to fuel his self-loathing and bitterness toward this world. But if you knock some sense into him, he’ll snap out of that spiral and begin to plan with you. There’s plenty of choices before the two of you - scandal? Running off? - but rest assured, Tyrion is going to investigate the hell out of this person. He’d never forgive himself if you got stuck with a brute.

Jaime Lannister

The fact he knew this was inevitable doesn't help Jaime's irritation. He can't believe your family arranged for that person to marry you. Seriously? You'd better keep Jaime at a distance from your spouse, because he can't help himself from making snide remarks and sarcastic comments. If he riles up the guy into a duel, all the better. He'll do all sorts of reckless things to begin with, and it's only worse when he's upset. He's also very willing to have an affair behind your spouse's back - you were with him first. You’ll probably have to scold Jaime about you two almost getting caught, but he’s above reproach. His stubbornness and jealousy gets worse the closer you two are.

Cersei Lannister

She’s absolutely infuriated with your family. You were her handmaiden, someone whose been with her for years - and they have the nerve to go behind her back like this?! It smells like a scheme of Tyrion’s, or perhaps Varys, but she’ll deal with them in time. For now, she’ll work out what to do about your spouse. She’ll try to keep you around as much as possible, and her possessiveness comes out in full. You can’t possibly be interested in such a worthless man.

Sandor Clegane

When you tell Sandor, he’s quiet for a discerningly long time before the anger and arguments come out. And then the quiet bitterness. The thing is, he knew this was coming for a while. He knew your time together was limited, he shouldn’t have things like hopes and happiness because it’ll just get taken away. And it is. Even if you explain you’ll try to break off the arrangement, that there’s still a way to get out, he has trouble believing it. He’s seen enough ladies get chained to useless fucking lords, he’d rather not see it happen to someone he cares about, thanks. Sandor will push you away as much as he can, but you could still attempt to convince him to have an affair… or perhaps leave King’s Landing entirely.

Ser Bronn of the Blackwater

He’s only mildly annoyed at the inconvenience. It’ll be a lot harder for you both to sneak around now, and forget about it if you’re having to move somewhere far away. Guess that’s the end of that ‘relationship’ - he should’ve expected it. Bronn is way more willing to stay close if you remain in King’s Landing, and he expects you both to keep fooling around. Now, if he’s actually started to develop feelings about you… he’ll start to act differently. You don’t actually like your spouse, do you? Wasn’t that just some arranged bullshit? He’ll throw smirks and subtle insults your spouse’s way, as if trying to goad them into a fight. More then once you two will almost get caught because he decides waltzing up to your window is totally acceptable, or trying to have a quickie in the middle of the day. A surprisingly jealous side will come out and he’s in total denial about any feelings he might have.

Jacquen H’ghar

This isn’t alarming to Jacquen at first. He knew he could never have such a union with you, and since this Westerosi society is so insistent on marriage, it would happen eventually. Still, your pain hurts him as well. Jacquen would have a variety of plans … anywhere from easily disguising as a guard or servant so he’s always beside you, or perhaps whisking you away somewhere. This isn’t the end of your relationship for him - it’s just a challenge to overcome. He assumes you won’t send him away or break it off.

Petyr Baelish

You being someone else’s wife makes no difference to Petyr, though he’s surprised in himself. Usually he stays out of such affairs, it only causes trouble… But he’s been intrigued by you, and quite frankly, he’s offended that this Lord Whoever from Wherever didn’t take his interest into account. No matter. Petyr has plenty of plans to deal with this pest, though he’s annoyed at his own jealousy whenever he sees you together with your spouse, even if you’re miserable. While he doesn’t want you unhappy, it certainly makes starting an affair and/or disposing of your spouse much easier.

Robert Baratheon

He’s furious and everyone is going to know about it. Robert will complain endlessly to Ned and Lord Arryn about how he found you first, how that useless shit of a husband won’t know what to do with you. Since he does little to hide his disgust, rumors will spread all over court. Hell, he’ll probably say even stupider things when he’s drunk, or he’ll do something stupider, like actually try to aggravate the guy into a fight or a duel. If you’re actually able to get him under control, he has no qualms about having an affair with you… but he may not be subtle about it. So that’s another thing to keep in mind.

Stannis Baratheon

It’s depressingly impressive how willing Stannis is to bury and deny his feelings once he hears you’re promised to someone else. He’ll try to extinguish all the happiness he had with you, bottle up all the memories and feelings that went along with it. This will be fine. He’ll be fine. This iron resolve is easy to maintain if Stannis rarely sees you. If you both are forced to interact even semi-often, it chips away at him, and he can’t help himself from making biting remarks about your spouse when you both visit. He hates feeling this way, he’s never felt it before, and he carries a deep grudge against your spouse and family for making it happen. It’s easier if you write to him, but then Stannis starts keeping those letters and punishing himself by reading them over and over. Eventually he stops entirely, deeming it inappropriate, even if that feels like cutting off one of his limbs.

Davos Seaworth

The old knight is understandably saddened by news of your betrothal and marriage, but it makes sense. Politics-wise, Davos believes he isn’t much of a prize, even when he’s risen to Lord. He should’ve expected this would happen. He’d wish you genuine happiness… But if you were miserable, Davos would feel awful and powerless. If you truly wanted to continue the relationship behind your spouse’s back, his biggest worry would be the secret getting out and your reputation being ruined. He wouldn’t be able to resist forever, but he’d still try to talk you out of it and try to convince you to forget about him.

Margaery Tyrell

She seeks you out the moment she finds out - and that was quickly, because she often keeps tabs on you. Her grandmother warned her about getting so close to her favorite, but it still comes as a terrible shock. Margaery holds you close and promises she’ll make it better, somehow. Maybe she and her grandmother can reason with her family, perhaps you can marry into the Tyrell family, so you both can be together. She’ll fix it, she swears. The thought of someone else being with you is terrible enough, she’ll be even more worried if the person is abusive. Margaery won’t stand for it, and might take a few rare risks for your sake.

Brynden Tully

This stirs up a lot of complicated feelings in the old knight. He knew his relationship with you wouldn’t last forever, that you’d have to marry eventually, and he never wanted to marry…. But he feels like this is his fault, especially if you’re miserable. He could’ve prevented this. Brynden knows he ought to break off the relationship, and he won’t blame you if you do… but he’ll also consider the idea of continuing the relationship. And if you have to go somewhere far away, he’ll still appreciate you sending letters and having a correspondence. The relationship may not be the same long-distance, but he cares a lot about you, and it hurts having you cut from his life.

Edmure Tully

Woe and misery. How much wine is in Riverrun’s stores? He may end up drinking a dent in it by the time the month is out. He almost didn’t believe the news until he heard it from several people, or just you directly. How could this happen? Wasn’t he courting you properly, taking all the steps just the right way? Wasn’t his interest obvious to anyone with eyes? Edmure approaches your family with a bit of a hot head, almost demanding an answer for why they chose whoever over … whoever your spouse is. Edmure doesn’t even care who it is, he hates their guts immediately. More likely than not, he’ll do something foolish, like start a duel. If all else fails, he’ll make sad eyes at you at all the feasts and galas and go into a bit of a depression.

Brienne of Tarth

Brienne is immediately distraught, but also believes she deserves it somehow. This happy relationship just had to come to an end, didn’t it? Well, you two had to be discreet about it to begin with, which didn’t please her … but this alternative feels worse. Brienne switches between trying to stay frosty to make it easier for you two to part, and being unable to hold back her affection and sadness. The best solution she can think of is to stay as your sworn sword, independent of your new husband’s house guards. And gods know, she will come at him with a vengeance if he even dares upset you or lay an unwanted hand on you. That means the relationship could continue, but she dislikes the secrecy even more when you’re married. While she doesn’t like the idea of running away from problems, maybe in certain circumstances, she’d be open to the idea…

Ramsay Bolton

Ramsay is irate, to say the least. Even if you don’t actually know him, you’ve just caught his eye, he’ll become possessive. If you both were romantic before the engagement news, his anger and possessiveness would be even more dangerous. Woe to your spouse if he lives close to the Dreadfort - leave it to Ramsay to think up some “accident” for them to be involved in. And if he finds out they’re involved in some sort of treason or crime, that’s all the better, no matter how flimsy the “crime” is. If he’s feeling especially reckless, he’ll just arrange their murder and take you back right away. Ramsay is a terrible loser, doubly so if it involves one of the few things he actually cares about.

Roose Bolton

On the outside he doesn’t react to the news beyond a silent glare. On the inside, Roose is furious. He had plans for you, plans that may have taken quite a while to get to this point, and now it’s been ruined by someone whose actively working against him… or too stupid to realize what a massive mistake they just made. Roose thinks up various ways to circumvent this and have you to himself. In the meantime, he’ll gladly continue an affair behind your spouse’s back, but that won’t necessarily save them from death. You’ll notice him become increasingly possessive and jealous, even if you have zero interest in your spouse, and you can sense he’ll be holding a deep grudge against whoever arranged this in the first place.

Oberyn Martell

As soon as he hears about the news, Doran has to talk him down from dueling the man…Half his daughters support it, the other half suggest something more subtle. Overyn feels insulted, for one - your affection for each other was obvious, yet your family still made this arrangement. And if he doesn’t get his duel, he will spread all sorts of unsavory, salacious rumors about your spouse, in hopes of creating a scandal that makes your family break the union. Or better, lead to the man dueling Oberyn directly! Oberyn doesn’t even consider continuing your relationship with him an “affair”. You both were together first, and a farce of a marriage you didn’t agree to won’t change that. You just have to make sure he can be discreet.

Doran Martell

While the news of your engagement is depressing, it isn't surprising. He's quite aware of the politics of Westeros, even if his own family doesn't believe it, and he had wind of this engagement. He just thought he could stop it in time. He hides his disappointment, but his family can tell he's withdrawing. Oberyn argues with his brother to go get you and fight, but Doran is a man of silent plans. He'll still love to correspond with you, and you can tell by his letters that he seems hopeful. Maybe he's thought of a way to break it off …

Arianne Martell

Well, isn’t this irksome? Arianne loved having you in her palace and keeping you all to herself, but then this foolish arranged marriage happened… She doesn’t hide her disdain, and she’s annoyed at herself for not doing more to stop it. The princess will spend no small amount of time being angry at the unfairness of it. Once she’s calmed, she doesn’t see why you both can’t continue the relationship behind closed doors. You’re both used to sneaking around, anyway. And Arianne can’t resist ferreting around for some salacious rumors about your spouse… Wouldn’t it be a shame if she found out something that led you to your family cutting the betrothal off?

Tyene Sand

She’s beyond annoyed at this outcome. You were her favorite, in more ways than one, and while she didn’t delude herself into thinking you’d be together forever… well, couldn’t you both have spent your days in court in service to the Martells, or perhaps left forever on a boat to Essos? Why did this have to happen so soon? She’s despondent, much as she tries to hide it, even with her sisters trying to comfort her. She begins to think of plans, just little things … a rumor here, a scheme there. She’ll feel much better if you remain in the Sunspear court, so she can stay close and your relationship can continue.

[attonitos-gloria]

Thoughts on Larys Strong?

Ahhhh, friend. I adore him, and I feel very conflicted about it. Thank you for asking me that. I needed to vent about this.

I have to talk about Tyrion to explain why lol sorry I throw Tyrion in every conversation too. Also sorry to be HORRIBLY prolix, this is so long. (And spoilers for the books for those who care.)

I'm a simple girl, really. I see a cunning, clever, quiet, morally gray man moving the strings of the game, chances are that I'll like him a lot, and it's even better if he is a little sad; I think Tyrion being my favorite character is a reflection of that.

But Tyrion is a deconstruction of a certain trope - that is, the evil disabled advisor, who can not be trusted because they're ill-intentioned from go, they will inevitably betray and turn against the master they served, because they only serve their own interests... No. This is Tywin, and Otto, two very able-bodied men. But Tyrion is loyal to a fault to the Lannisters, even though they are horrible to him (he never bets against his family! Until the day he does!!) He is actually an excellent asset to them and works very, very hard for them. When he turns again them, he does it out of grief and not as a consummation of a long planned betrayal. It's sudden; it's utterly emotional. And it's not exactly a secret: it's loud, as most things Tyrion does. It's not behind the curtains! The betrayal of House Lannister against him was obvious, and his response to that was just as obvious. He killed Tywin and fled. That's the message. He has turned against the system and he wants it to ruin.

This is one of the reasons why I don't like the idea that Tyrion will (unexpectedly) betray Dany in the books; like, why bother to give this character so much nuance only to make him go down the same path of so many of the Disabled men occupying the role of Advisors before him? Everyone expects Tyrion to betray people, both in-universe and in fandom, even though he is, all things considered and relatively to other characters, a rather loyal man (as long as people are loyal to him). He is many horrible things! But unloyal is not one of them! I trust George; I think ADWD built things in a way that even if he does, indeed, end up betraying Dany, he was given enough nuance that we cannot put him in that category. It would make me very, very sad, I'm not going to lie to you. But I think characters, unlike real people, should be allowed to be evil, and Tyrion has so many reasons to be the worst person ever that whatever he does... We will get it. We are going to read it and be like, "oh, so this is one of the possible outcomes of years being abused and neglected by your family and the entire world! This is a thing a human being could do if they're deprived of love." That's the thing: Tyrion is a whole, entire, layered character. If he turns out to be, ultimately, a villain, we'll follow the thread, all the way from Joanna's womb, and indeed before her, to Tytos, to all the Lannisters before them that made his life and story what it is.

BUT LARYS. You asked me about Larys. Larys is such a perfect crystallization of this trope that it almost makes me cringe inside. Even in the books he is, like, this huge mystery. Why does Larys do the things he does? What is his game? No one knows, Larys is inscrutable. He's not morally gray; as far as we know he's straight up evil, but almost no one (but Alicent) seems to suspect it because he looks innocent, he looks harmless, keeping the company of women because he cannot hunt. He is deceitful: that's pretty much the core of his character. Intentionally misleading, and even more, using his disability to employ that falsehood. Behind that mask of being a loyal servant, he has manipulated basically everyone he's interacted so far, including Otto. He employs cruel methods, he is completely unscrupulous. He is ridiculously creepy and the show goes to great lengths to make that clear. He killed his family, and he showed no signs to hate them before, quite the contrary; he simply did it because... Love is a downfall! It's almost like the show is telling you that betrayal is in his nature [ableism red flag]. So obviously [spoiileeersss] he is going to betray Alicent after years in her service.

Oh, and also, people call him Larys Clubfoot, and he has a foot fetish....... like. Really? Why, WHY make him disabled, I ask?

And it's hard, because for one side, the mystery is part of the reason why he is such a fun character. Sometimes people are simply evil! Not every bad person has a traumatic family history; some people are just perverse. Larys seems to be one of those people; and why not? For the other side, when we deprive him of nuance and a history that could enlighten us as to how he became this horrible man....... He becomes a trope, and not the nicest one!!! Hence my conflict.

But at the end of the day, even though the way he is presented to us strings a problematic chord to me, I am obsessed with the portrayal Needham gave him. Obsessed. I read the terms and conditions, and I wish to proceed, I am so so sorry. I just support all his war crimes.

We still don't know why he did what he did to Alicent in the books, and I'm very curious to see how the show is going to explain or justify that. I think there's still time to be invested in Larys' character. I thought at some point in the first season that maybe they will go the Criston route? He is going to be disappointed because Alicent will reject him in some manner that will displease him, but he will do it in the delusional, creepy way, and not the incel-Cole way. Or maybe they'll just follow along and give him no reason whatsoever, because he is Larys? I don't know!!!

In the books, Larys asks to be buried without his twisted foot. When combined with the scene in the garden and the hunt, I think this throws an interesting light on his character. He's never found peace with his disability, he doesn't want to be tied to it for eternity beyond the grave; but he's found something useful - being invisible, looking harmless, observing people without being observed - and he turns this against the world. I like this villain origin story very much! I would like to see this being further explored.

I think they really grounded his character in Alicent, so far. His relationship with Alicent fascinates me, because it is so abusive. It's coded as courtly romance but it's ANYTHING but. This man is gaslighting her! He actually groomed her (politically if nothing else) when she was rather young and lonely! And she is using him! It's all horrible, and they remind me a lot of Petyr and Sansa in that regard, and I always hated the romanticization of Petyr/Sansa so I feel validated lol I mean. Let creepy ships be creepy.

Speaking of which, that's one of the reasons why I didn't hate the scene where they exchange information for sexual services. I liked it, because it was so horrible! Like, Alicent looks so uncomfortable that it was bordering on the non-consensual. You cannot romanticize that shit, lol (I mean, you can, but the romance is not there, that's my point). But the fact he has a foot fetish (and she takes her shoes off on her first dinner with him) reminded me of Shae calling Tyrion my giant and the court proceeding to ridicule him for it at his trial. I wish they hadn't done that to Larys. Nothing against kink. Nothing against finding sexual pleasure in what one perceives as a lack in one's life, be it a father or a mother, or a limb, or privacy; whatever! Kink is fine, and everyone does that. It can be empowering. But one of those days I would like to see disabled people in TV having different kinks? Or maybe... none? That would be nice, too, and I don't know what it is with making such a fuss about what disabled people like, or don't like, in the bedroom. Or maybe I do.

TL;DR: I think his characterization is problematic and I wish he were more nuanced. I still hope they will develop him further. But I cannot help but love him. Like. Top 3 favorite characters of HOTD for real.

I would really love to hear your thoughts on him.

[fedonciadale]

Sansa does not threaten patriarchy like Dany. Unlike Arya,Brienne &Asha, Sansa is a gender conformist. She does not navigate difficulties of ruling like Cersei and Arianne who are feminine yet have to rebel against the social structure imposed in Westeros . In short Sansa is the embodiment of non intersectional white femininism that preaches about "purity", "conformism" and lays out the check boxes that entails an ideal Westerosi woman .

Sorry, not sorry. Any woman in a position of power threatens patriarchy.

Any woman in a patriarch society faces the same disadvantage of being ridiculed, not taken seriously, overruled. No woman ‘wins’ in patriarchy, not even the feminine women who happen to fulfill some of the ideals men impose on them - and you can clearly see this in Sansa’s chapters. And if you think that Sansa’s experience - that she did all that is expected of a lady and yet it did not help her at all  - will not influence how she sees her role in the future, think again.

On the contrary, you could even argue that women who accept that the male coded virtues are ‘better’, women who are ‘not like other girls’, women who internalize misogyny like Cersei, these are the women who are more easily accepted within the male circles of power because they do not threaten the idea, that male behaviour is superior. They try to get power for themselves by ‘conforming’ to male coded behaviour. This is not the individualism ‘not like other girls’ type of women think it is.

By accepting women with ‘male behaviour’ as their almost social equal, men strengthen patriarchy. It’s an old method really. Allow some of the disadvantaged people to climb the ladder. They will all the more fiercely protect their own position. In my own career the person who was acting the most misogynistic towards me was a woman who had ‘made it’. Women will never get over that if they do not accept that the range of women is as colourful and diverse as that of men.

Sansa is feminine woman - which is not the same as a gender conformist, although there are overlaps. She is about to learn that there are different ways for women. She’s already met Mya Stone. She will find her own unique way of ruling without becoming “Aegon with tits” like Dany or “Tywin with tits” like Cersei. Sansa will be Sansa.

She might even become a feminist, in the sense that she’ll work for gender equality, but as things are now, she is not (as is no woman in the series - working to improve your own position is not feminism, even if you’re a woman. Nevertheless I am sure that she’ll go down into history of Westeros not as the woman with ‘manly virtues’ who ruled ‘as good as a man’, but that she will rule in her own style - and that might do more for women in charge than anything any of the other women did. I doubt that her reign will fall under the category of ‘purity’ or ‘conformism’.

It’s so ridiculous to me that you would claim that Sansa is a non intersectional white feminist when Dany  - who uses poc to raise herself, who thinks disdainful about anyone who is not a Targ or of the Blood of Valyria in her own PoV -  is right there. Sry, not sry, there is your ‘white ferminist’ (although she isn’t a feminist either, but white feminism is no real feminism, because feminism is about equality for all). The ‘mhysa’ raised on the backs of poc. It cannot be more clear than that.

No thanks for the ask, my dear confused Sansabut!

[hello-nichya-here]

Ok, so what in your opinion is the WORST mistake that the showrunners for Game of Thrones made in terms of content, either it's addition or redaction?

WARNING: Looooooong post ahead

Themes are for eighth-grade book reports

This absurd quote by one of the showrunners explains why exactly the show fell appart. They wanted to make a story... without themes. Anyone with a minimally functioning brain will tell that this is impossible because every story, even the simplest and least complicated story there ever, has a theme. Even a nihilistic story has a theme "Nothing matters". Every. Story. Has. A. Theme.

But Game Of Thrones didn't, at least not after the writers ran out of books to adapt and did their own thing. Everything every character did was no longer to build a narrative, but to essentially act as click-bait. The focus was to make people keep watching, not on making any content that was worth watching.

The first four seasons had it's problems, just like the books had it's problems, but Martin's writting was so brilliant that it managed to stay good even while being handled by absolute clowns. The moment season four ended was the moment the show stopped being an adaptation and became it's own thing - and like I explained before, said thing wasn't a story.

Shock

Both the show and the books had MANY shocking, heart-breaking and downright horrifying scenes: Daenerys being raped by Drogo; Bran being pushed out the window after accidentally seeing the queen fucking her brother; the whole deal with Craster and his daughters; the Dotrakhi destroying Mirri's village and her revenge against them and Daenerys; Ned's death; Melisandre giving birth to a shadow baby that killed Renly; The Red Wedding; Jeoffrey's death; Tyrion killing his father; Theon being tortured by Ramsay...

The difference is there were REASONS behind the shocking scenes Martin created. Even when you look at things like rape and torture scenes and threats of rape/torture - Martin used those scenes to remind us that the world he created is an EXTREMELY dangerous and downright vile place, and that the characters are never truly safe, and that there are WAY worse things than just being killed.

Dumb & Dumber on the other hand, gaves us scenes like an evil, former man of the night's watch evily making an evil speech to his fellow evil men, evily drinking whine from a human skull while nameless women were being raped in the background - but little does he know that Jon Snow, the hero, is about to wreck his shit. It takes something that could realistically happen (and that did happen in the books) and takes it up to eleven because the writers think shock is the same as quality and that the audience is SO STUPID that they need to practically make the actor jump out of the TV, grab us by the shoulders and scream "I'M EVIL! I'M THE BIG BAD! ROOT FOR THE HERO TO KILL ME!"

Pretty much every bad guy became a parody of Jeoffrey, ironically enough because the writers took Jeoffrey too seriously. He was a cruel, sadistic character, who had WAY too much power - but he was also a spoiled baby whose reply to Tyrion bitch-slapping him wasn't a threat, but "I'M TELLING MOM!" Jeoffrey worked because he was only allowed to do his thing whenever smarter, more competent characters like Tyrion and Tywin where not around, meaning his actions, while inhumane, never reached the point of no longer being believable.

The horrible things that happened to the characters no longer felt "right". For instance, Sansa had just been taken to the Eerie by Little Finger, who has a weird complex in which he sees her both as the daughter he never had with Catelyn AND as a replacement for Catelyn, and she was starting to truly be a player instead of a pawn... and then the writers realized "Oh shit, we should have not cut the Jeyne Pool/Fake Arya' plot, that was important" and forced it on Sansa, making Little Finger hand her on a silver plater to Ramsay and turning her into a victim AGAIN, this time to a man that dramatically fights his enemies without a shirt own, practically saying "come at me bro"

Compare this to Ned's beheading, or Catelyn and Rob being betrayed and killed by the Freys. These moments were shocking and downright depressing - but they were earned. The writting was on the wall for anyone to see: Ned was at the mercy of Jeoffrey, and the Starks had given the Freys, who are notoriously disloyal, a reason to resent them. These twists felt completely natural, were the only logical way for the situation the characters were in to play out, AND they had consequences to plot instead of just making the audience gasp and then being forgotten about.

Plot armor

It's kind of ironic and almost tragic that the show that became famous for killing characters later became the worst type of high-stakes series, putting the characters in situations they could NOT survive, not even if a goddamn miracle happened, and having them live anyway. What's even worse is that it happened repeatedly. If I had to see Jon Snow almost die and then survive anyway one more fucking time I was going to lose my mind.

There's no bigger proof that there were just no consequences for the "main" characters anymore than watching the second, third, and fourth episodes of season either. The first sets up that this battle against the night king and his army of undead is likely going to kill the majority of them, if they're lucky... and then in the third we see the plot armor in all of it's "glory", and then in the forth we find out that the Dotrakhi, who had ALL been killed, actually still have half the numbers they had the night before, somehow. Even red-shirts weren't dying anymore.

DORNE

This disaster needed it's own session because HOLY SHIT, it's a miracle/tragedy that everyone didn't go "Fuck it, I'm never watching another episode of this stupid show."

The Dorne plot in the books isn't perfect, but what the show did to it was so fucking bad that I'm pretty sure the writers didn't even read the Dorne chapters in the books, they just looked at a wiki, wrote down the names of a few characters and then did their own shitty thing.

In the books, Doran Martel is a clever, dangerous man, who pretends to be harmless so people will understimate him and step right into his trap. In the show, Doran Martel... died. That's it. I can't remember anything else that happened to him. Add him to the list of "Brilliant characters that became stupid due to shitty writing", I'm sure Tyrion, Varys and Little Finger will love making him company.

The sand-snakes, one of the main driving force of that plot, were all distinct characters in the books, with their personalities, goals, methods and motivations - basically they were created by a writer who knew what he is was doing. In the show they were all the same "character" who could be perfectly described by that horrible, cringy, PAINFUL line one of them (I can't even remember which) said to Bron "You want a good girl, but you need the bad pussy" (Seriously, if that actress ever kills the show-runners as revenge for having to say that, she'll be 100% justifyed in doing so)

And we cannot forget the driving force behind that unwatchable shit show: Ellaria Sand. In the books, the death of Oberyn made her believe that revenge only leads to more blood-shed. In the show, his death enraged to the point of wanting to avenge him and his family, and she did this... by killing his family. If that doesn't explain how insane and stupid this plot-line was, I don't know what will.

Hype = Character assassination

Many shows are based around the conflict between the bad guys and the good guys. Game Of Thrones is not one of these shows. Or at least it wasn't. As they ran out of ideas, the writers started mutilating every single character until they could be label as "Good" or "Bad", regardless of what felt right to the story and to the point that there was nothing left of said characters. Stannis's actor, Stephen Dillane, straight up said that the only thing he got from being on the show was money and that his character's motivations and decisions were nonsense - ironically enough, that kind of brutal honesty means that the writers had THE perfect actor play Stannis, and wasted his fucking time.

Here's a list of the characters that fell victims to this horrible fate: Catelyn Stark, Tyrion Lannister, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Jon Snow, Melisandre, Stannis, Jorah, Daenerys (bonus points for being mutilated into being both a generic, shitty "hero" and a generic, shitty "villain") Greyworm, Rhaegar Targaryen, Lyanna Stark...

Pretty much the only character who became more complex in the show than she was in the books was Cersei. While her book self was never just a "Generic Evil Queen", the show version of her was far more sympathetic, which made the stories she was part of interesting. Too bad the writers ran out of ideas of what to do with her after season six and just left her by the window drinking whine until Dany showed up to kill her. Which brings us to...

Why is this happening?

Cersei was seen as a threat in the last two seasons based on nothing but the things she HAD done. Her story just ended the very second season six did, but since she was still alive despite being one of the bad guys she had to die... I guess. She (and by extention Jaime) joined the list of characters that had nothing to do, but were still around: Davos, Theon, Yara, Melisandre, Bron, Sam, Gendry, Bran (the last one being SO unnecessary that he was cut from season five and no one noticed)

To combat that issue, the writers gave characters "motivations" that made no sense. For exemple: Sandor Clegane. His only reason to be in the show was so he could kill his brother. The problem was that Gregor was already dead. He was a walking corpse. There was nothing left of the abusive brother Sandor once knew, meaning he had no reason to fight him, and that, to keep Sandor around, the writers should have come up something new (like the redemption that book fans have been waiting for, and that has a lot of backing evidence). You might as well have had HIM be the one to randomly fly out of nowhere and kill the night king despite having no connection to him.

And since we're talking about the night king... Arya was the one to kill him. Why? Because the writers ruined Jaime's redemption arc, meaning that the only fitting ending for him was to die with Cersei, and so Arya could not kill Cersei despite wanting to, having the ability to do, AND having heard a prophecy that said she'd "Shutting brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes forever", the last one being the only one she had not done AND applying to Cersei. But Dumb & Dumber admitted they had no plan for this, so now that they were at the last season, they needed to do something with it, and they retconned it to mean Arya would kill the night king...

But Arya killing him meant Jon had nothing to do, so Dany had to go mad so he could kill her. To "hint" at that, they ignored all the not at all subtle foreshadowing the previous season had of Dany and Jon having a kid, and they even showed her getting jealous that he was technically the true heir... even though that made no sense since they were going to rule together anyway, and even after Dany went full "Mad Queen" she ASKED HIM TO RULE WITH HER. But anyways, he kills her and becomes king...

Except he doesn't actually become king and him being a secret Targaryen has no effect in the plot, because Bran needed to become king so there'd be a reason for him to be alive, because his magical powers turned into a plot-device. A plot-device that wasn't used at any goddamn point. Seriously, the only thing as bad as Bran becoming king was Euron's existence - dude was THE most useless villain ever AND the worst Jeoffrey parody.

A darker story (literally)

I could not end this rant without bitching about this. What is the point of spending an ungodly amount of money on sets, costumes, make-up, special effects... and then using such poor lighting that no one can see what the fucking is going on?

Anyway, this disaster of a series was so absurd it should be used as an exemple of what NOT to do.

[moonlitgleek]

Isn't Rhaegar absolved from his actions due to the fact that the prophecy is true and his son with Lyanna is the savior of the human race? Isn't Jaehaerys II absolved from his since the prophecy was true and TPTWP, in fact, is born of Aerys and Rhaella's line? I know we can mull over how Rhaegar could have done things differently to get his third child, but it seems that it was destiny. With Jaehaerys II, there wasn't even another option but to force the marriage to fulfill the prophecy.

Neither is absolved, no. Because the ends do not justify the means, and destiny is only what we make of it.

So many characters in this series act on the rationale that the greater good merits any number of sacrifices made in its name, which is also often used to justify and minimize blatant atrocities. Varys plays with people’s lives and maims children on the thought that King Aegon will right all the wrongs in Westeros. Mel argues that burning children alive is a necessary price for the survival of everyone else. Rhaegar treats the thousands of lives lost over the course of the rebellion as an acceptable collateral damage for a prophetic enterprise. Stannis is on the path to fall to that same viewpoint of a necessary sacrifice (”we do not choose our destinies” You do, Stannis. You do. You’re the only one who can choose). Robert’s council tries to frame Dany’s assassination attempt in the context of how ending two lives would spare thousands. Tywin tries to spin the Red Wedding as something that spares countless lives that would have fallen if the war continued. Mirri Maz Duur kills an unborn child on a crime he has not committed. Bloodraven may have honed Euron’s magical abilities on the notion that it would be worth it in the end, and he has a history of working on the basis of “the ends justify the means” during his tenure as Hand (e.g, killing Aenys Blackfyre in a breach of safe conduct, letting the Greyjoys pillage and reave as they please because he was too focused on the Blackfyres, etc). Though there is an obvious variance in the overall morality and sincerity between these character, all of them give the same rationale of a necessary evil done in the name of a greater good. If you have to sacrifice a few to save everyone else, if you have to sacrifice one person to save everyone else, it’s a no brainer, right? What is one life opposite everyone else?

The answer is “everything”

Human lives are worth so much more than being means to an end. Putting people on the chopping block for “the greater good” dehumanizes them by reducing them to sacrificial lambs in the name of a higher purpose. But ASOIAF has always advocated for the recognition of the value of life and respect for the sanctity of human life. Though the methods may vary, the text remains loud and clear in its refusal of dehumanizing ideologies, whether the source is human characters like Tywin Lannister, Robert Baratheon or Randyll Tarly, or supernatural creatures like the Others who are the literal embodiment of dehumanization. ASOIAF is about the fight for our common humanity, for recognizing that humanity regardless of things like class or race or which side of a magical wall you were born on. But you can not fight for our common humanity by devaluing people’s lives. You can not use the argument of “doing it for humanity” to disregard the humanity of those being sacrificed. That cold ruthless pragmatism is not the point of this series; the fight against it is. That’s been the point from the first prologue when Wymar Royce stared the abyss in the face and charged at it.

That’s why the support of the narrative lies with characters like Ned Stark and Davos Seaworth who refuse to give into the idea that the cruelty and dehumanization is necessary for the greater good. Through them, GRRM delivers the point that every single human life matters. That saving one person can mean everything. That it’s not naive to think that one life is worth everything. Protecting the one is not inherently inferior to protecting the many. The greater good can just as well lie in saving one person. Which it did in the case of Ned and Jon.

I think it’s pretty significant that Ned had no idea about the prophecy or what role Jon would play when he protected Jon, while Rhaegar who did know made everything exponentially harder. There’s a rather underappreciated irony in the fact that Rhaegar (and Jaehaerys) had little to do with fulfilling the prophecy; in fact, they jeopardized it. They may have orchestrated the circumstances under which Jon and Dany could be conceived, but a closer look shows that Jon and Dany were born mostly in spite of them and their actions. I mean, Jaehaerys married Rhaella off so young it impacted her health and her ability to bear living children. She almost died at Summerhall along with Rhaegar in an ill-fated attempt to hatch dragons, and while that’s mostly on Aegon V, I expect that Jaehaerys was fully on board as well considering the measures he took for the prophecy. Rhaegar impregnated a teenager and left her to give birth in less than ideal circumstances, and spurred a civil war thing that weakened the realm and put his entire family at risk and got a few of them killed. I can only describe their efforts as counterproductive.

But I find it extremely fitting that they ended up doing little and less for the War for the Dawn, because Rhaegar and Jaehaerys embraced the metaphorical cold in their quest to fight it. Jaehaerys reduced Rhaella to an incubator for a savior as if her humanity and her worth are narrowed down to her womb. Rhaegar was willing to see thousands of people die for his vision of what the prophecy required. They allowed themselves to decide people’s worth. Rhaella, Elia and Lyanna mattered only as much as the children they could bear, and those children mattered only as much as their prophetic roles. Rickard, Brandon, their entourage and the rest of the casualties of the rebellion mattered not at all. But that’s not how it works. Rhaegar and Jaehaerys don’t get to decide people’s worth. They don’t get to decide which lives matter more. They do not get to devalue other people’s lives because these lives are not theirs to decide what to do with. Individual lives matter, not because of a prophetic destiny but because of their humanity.

That’s why I don’t see the prophecy as Rhaegar and Jaehaerys’ absolution, but rather their hubris.I get the sense that they acted on the assumption that the prophecy would make everything alright in the end, especially Rhaegar, and so ended up missing the entire point. They got so entangled in their interpretations of the prophecy that they did everything wrong. Got a lot wrong too since Rhaegar wasn’t even trying to get the Prince that Was Promised from Lyanna; I doubt her was even aiming for a boy. Hatching dragons in Summerhall ended on a tragedy. And of course, no one ever accounted for Tyrion. But the prophecy, true as it may be, doesn’t make things go a certain way; people do.

Which brings me to what you say about how it was destiny that Rhaegar acted like he did instead of other alternatives available to him. This argument fundamentally misunderstands a rather significant theme of this series - that it’s our choices that define who we are. Through the political and magical plots alike, individual choice is held up as immensely important to the point where many characters’ existential victory lies in that choice, the clearest case of all is how the three heads of the dragon have to contend with some version of this dilemma.

It all goes back and back, Tyrion thought, to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance on in our steads.

Does Dany have “the taint” of madness? Is Jon’s decision to fight his or is it an inevitability orchestrated by prophecy and Rhaegar Targrayen? Can Tyrion break free of the toxic legacy left behind by Tywin? Do they get to define who they are on their own terms or are they beholden to their lineage and their ancestor’s legacy? That’s for them to decide.

“Yet soon or late in every man’s life comes a day when it is not easy, a day when he must choose.”

Maester Aemon lays down the bare bones of this recurring theme in Jon’s arc. Across multiple books, Jon faces the choice of keeping to his watch or leaving several times which only frames the significance of how his destiny as one of the saviors of Westeros lies in him making that choice. Jon’s “chosen one” status has always been linked to him taking control of his future and deciding for himself. It’s him choosing to stay in Castle Black despite his appalled discovery of the reality of the Watch and to take his vows despite his frustration with the appointment to the stewards. It’s him going with Qhorin Halfhand of his own accord. It’s him picking the Wall over deserting for Robb or Ygritte. It’s him making a conscious decision to be the leader of the fight at the Wall over Stannis’ offer of Winterfell. It’s him taking responsibility of the free folk and recognizing that the commonality of being human is what matters. Jon is on the forefront of the text’s central conflict by virtue of his choices.

Dany is also fighting for our common humanity over in Slaver’s Bay. Her arc is basically a hard fought battle for autonomy, whether hers or the slaves’. Dany fights for freedom, for people’s right to choose, for them to be recognized as people not things to be gifted and sold. “Have you asked them?”, she challenges when Xaro Xohan Daxos argues that slaves have no use for freedom because they were made to be used. But Xaro Xohan Daxos doesn’t get to decide others’ fates, neither do the slavers of Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen. They don’t get to deprive them of their right to choose. People’s lives do not belong to them to decide what to do with. They don’t get to strip them of their free will or dehumanize them by treating them as things to be used to their satisfaction.

Because that’s what the Others are doing. They are supernatural slavers coming with their ice cold chains and stealing every single choice from humanity, right to the choice of dying. You can’t even die. They will resurrect you and force you to be their undead puppet.Mankind can’t even choose death because they will rip death from your grasp and drag your corpse up to join their army. The real threat in this text is a supernatural embodiment of dehumanization and taking away people’s choice. The War for the Dawn is nothing if not a fight for freedom, for the right to choose and to be human.

So the idea of “destiny” controlling how things go? It goes against the very heart of the series. Destiny is nothing but a series of choices deliberately made by individuals to shape the future. There is no fixed inescapable narrative that they can’t deviate from, or some all powerful cosmic power dictating how they should act. Even in the presence of magical visions, it remains the characters’ choices that decide their future. They get the prophecies but what they do with it is on them because the prophecies do not decide who they are. For all the magical elements and prophetic visions in this narrative, it remains that one of the things that the story emphasizes again and again is that our choices matter. They have meaning and they have consequences. Nothing is inevitable unless we make it so.

And that needs to hold true for the story to have any kind of meaning. Acting as if there is some kind of predetermined destiny that compels people to act in a particular way means that literally no one is responsible for their actions. People were just always meant to do what they did. Everyone is bound with chains of magic, lineage and a mystical force that has free reign to manipulate them. Free will is only an illusion fed to pawns that have no control. And if that’s the case, you can no longer hold anyone accountable. How can you call a person good or evil if no one has the capacity to choose their path? How can you hold anyone responsible either for their heroics or their atrocities? And if there is no good and evil, if honor and corruption get tarred by the same brush, if you have no basis to distinguish between the true knights and the false ones, then the only choice is truly “you win or you die”. Which is bullshit. These are false binaries and are far, far from being the measure of triumph.

ASOIAF has never been a story about the futility of ideals but rather about the fight to hold onto those ideals. About how“the battle between good and evil is fought largely within the individual human heart, by the decisions that we make”.  It all comes down to a choice and to the accountability for that choice. This series is rife with people trying to sidestep responsibility for their decisions, from Tywin maintaining plausible deniability to Robert willfully closing his eyes to corruption and transferring blame onto the next convenient target to Roose cultivating “a peaceful land, a quiet people” to Littlefinger keeping “clean hands” to Barristan Selmy and Arys Oakheart hiding behind their vows to justify their inaction in the face of tyranny. But they don’t get to outrun their responsibility for their own decisions. No one gets off scot-free, not because of vows of obedience, not because of corrupt systems, and not because of some notion of an inescapable destiny. The narrative won’t let them.

You must make that choice yourself, and live with it all the rest of your days.

[renlyisright]

Season 7 Episode 7 - Hey, We Won at Scheming, Who Would Have Guessed

Welp, I finished the master’s thesis before I finished the show. I can’t exactly say that I have grown up with these characters because most of them have stopped growing up for death-related reasons. Well, there’s the Stark kids who are still alive, and their careers are all on up-swing.

In this final episode of the season, we visit the ruins of the dragon pit, and they make me wonder just how large it must have been when the dragons were still super large.

The truce meeting is about to start, but Daenerys has brought her army to stand near King’s Landing, just in case. Both the Unsullied and the Dothraki. Euron’s massive fleet is protecting the Blackwater, against Daenerys’ fleet of… five ships.

The negotiators are allowed entrance, and are brought to the third hill of King’s Landing, and the one tourist attraction we haven’t seen yet, the Dragon Pit. Which is a big place, but sadly a ruin. Being a large pile of already-cut stone right in the city with no current use never helps any historical building, those stones can be put to a much better use.

As this meeting includes almost everyone of any importance, and also some sidekicks, there’s more reunions. Tyrion says that he missed Bronn. Bronn seems to have his business in order, bringing Cersei’s enemies to her and thinking of retiring with his reward if the negotiation ends with heads on spikes. But if Daenerys wins in the end...

Everyone arrives to the arena, and the Hound begins the game by threatening the Mountain. There’s clearly a duel being set up between these two death-cheaters, but as at any time either of them can be killed by, well, anything, I’m not holding my breath for a super smackdown between them.

Daenerys arrives fashionably late, and brings her two dragons to the dragon pit, and… how big exactly this place must have been in the beginning? Drogon’s wings almost cover the middle of the arena by themselves.

As Daenerys, Jon and Tyrion predicted, their enemies just laugh about the matter before seeing the evidence. After that, they present a bit of theater, as Cersei later reveals. Euron proclaims that he’s moving his fleet to the Iron Islands, away from the Dead, and Cersei gives a practised speech of accepting the truce.

So did they have intel of the evidence, or did Cersei make plans for the low-odds-event that the thing she has ridiculed every time it has come up is actually true. If so, that’s remarkably good planning, from her.

The showing of the evidence was quite a show, Jon used the one wight they had in great detail for everyone to see. Qyburn was especially interested… well, he has practised getting one almost dead man up and running, so searching this body for any clues for advancing the scientific understanding of life and death must intrigue him… Let’s hope he doesn’t create a new White Walker in the middle of the Red Keep.

Cersei asks Jon to promise to go back to the North and stay there. Jon can’t promise that, so the negotiation ends, just like that. Tyrion and Daenerys say that Jon should have just lied and not been so Neddy. But just because others do something universally agreed to be bad, it doesn’t mean you should too. Anyway, Cersei walks out and Tyrion goes to speak to him alone, as he matters the least if he gets killed.

But he doesn’t, even after coaxing Cersei to kill him for what he did. Cersei is too shocked to give the word, and it could also be that she simply can’t give people what they ask from her, it’s completely unnatural to her. She blames Tyrion for killing Tywin, which opened them for their enemies and brought about the dead of the rest of the kids. The legacy of Tywin Lannister… you know, if the only thing keeping everyone from attacking your family is their fear of you, that does not a good legacy make. The legacy of Ned Stark was the North supporting first Robb and then Jon out of respect to him, the legacy of Tywin Lannister was everyone piling up on the Lannisters once he was out of the way.

The result of Cersei and Tyrion’s discussion is that Cersei proclaims to join them in the fight against the Dead, while expecting nothing good to come to herself for that decision. Yes, what did we speak about lying just now?

Speaking of Ned Stark’s legacy, Jon and Theon talk about it. Theon betrayed his memory, but, as Jon says, he was more of a father to Theon than Balon ever was. And so they can use that bond to reconcile, and Jon can encourage Theon to take charge and take the lead of Yara’s men.

Symbolism, Theon is starting to change his weaknesses into strengths. This is symbolised by allowing the Ironborn he is fighting to kick him to the nuts, to no effect. Yes, this is symbolism speaking.

The man says to Theon “Stay down, or I’ll kill you”. When Theon has the upper hand, he bashes his head in with a rock for that mercy. I would say that the Ironborn have a specifically violent way to solve disputes, but… nope. Not specifically, not at all. But Theon gets to be the leader of the pride, and gets to go against the Ramsay-placeholder enemy to confront his trauma. Someone should invent better therapy methods.

In Winterfell, the winter continues to fall from the sky. Littlefinger tries to chaos things up, but his time’s up. There’s no room for him anymore in this new magical and thriller-pace world.

I read A Dance With Dragons last winter, and while I liked most of it, like the writing style, the characters, seeing more of non-royals, and the new locales, the ending was a disappointment. Or rather, that there wasn’t an ending. There’s more books to go (and I hope to get to read them), but this one just… stopped when the page count went over 1000. It had the same problem as the fourth one, people spent a lot of time going from one place to another, so that when they arrived the book was almost over (or in Victarion’s case, it was over), and the end result was just a list of cliffhangers. Like, imagine ending A Clash of Kings just before Blackwater, or last season before the Battle of the Bastards. It felt like the arc of the book was incomplete, and I wasn’t given a reason to care about the new side plots, like which of them will actually matter and which just padded the book until it had to end early?

The funny thing of course is that this show has now the opposite problem of jumping from one set piece to another without build-up or showing of the journey. And when you can’t keep up with this new world, you lose the game of thrones.

Littlefinger schemes a wedge between Sansa and Arya. He doesn’t want a trained assassin in the same castle as he is, now that he has supported Sansa to ladyship and is perhaps looking for a way to make her a queen as well… that was his weakness, stick to just getting power and you’d have much easier job, but no, you have to include getting a specific woman into your plans and that’s when you make mistakes. But it doesn’t matter anymore what he schemes, as magic has entered Winterfell.

Bran can cheat. He can see the past, and apparently can see exactly where and when he wants. So he traced Littlefinger’s steps, and found out all his betrayals. Many of them Sansa already knew, so the rest mustn’t have come as a shock. So the Starks, who value honesty and honor, now can see if they are betrayed or lied to. Once Jon gets to Winterfell, Bran can tell him what Cersei said after they left. Political intrigue, a corner block and most of the wall of the show, has suddenly become useless. The Littlefingers of the world can’t scheme anymore against the Starks. They have Won At Scheming.

The dagger, the dagger, is revealed to be originally Petyr’s. As I said earlier, the only way the revelation could matter anymore would be if it was someone’s who is still living, or someone’s whom we’d never think to order Bran’s assassination. And here we are, it was the Chaos Man. I’m not sure if the dates add up, how did he know of Bran’s fall so that he could hire the assassin, when he was in King’s Landing at the time? Maybe he wasn’t? And why use his own expensive dagger and lie that it was Tyrion’s, when a simple Lannister knife would have worked much better?

In the book the answer was different. Tyrion figured out that it was Joffrey, who stole his father’s dagger and gave it to the assassin. He never confirmed it with anyone, and anyway Joffrey died moments later. I can fully well believe it from Joffrey. But it’s been so long since Joffrey died that at this point one more evil deed to his name wouldn’t mean much. So the culprit is now Littlefinger, and wow, listing all his schemes like that tells how without him the status quo would likely be just where it was in the beginning. He has a lot of blood on his hands. Daenerys and the Dead would still be wild cards, though.

And so the king of the ash heap, Petyr Baelish, dies in the dark main hall of Winterfell, in the middle of the mess he’s spent years to create, without achieving his goals, without any allies and with absolutely nobody going to miss him.

As I have said, for being such a dark and gritty show, the villains don’t get any better ends than those who try to do better, and their legacies are usually worse.

Speaking of both the villains and those who try to do better, Cersei informs Jaime that nope, we are not going anywhere, she used the neat trick called lying. Euron went to get mercenaries with elephants (ooh!) from Essos.

This is enough for Jaime, who storms away, after telling Cersei to have the Mountain kill him for it if she so desires. In the end, she doesn’t, even after threatening him with that. But after listening to her lie and cheat for years, Jaime just says “I don’t believe you” and leaves. See, consequences.

Poor Cersei, losing everyone’s trust and being entirely alone at the end of the episode. Only her massive armies to keep her on the throne. Which is a funny thing, now that I think about it. She has managed to antagonize everybody, but because she has killed everyone in King’s Landing who has criticized her, she gets to still rule, because there is no one else in the city to take the crown from her. She’s taking advantage of the fact that no new important characters are going to be introduced at this point. Euron was the last one, in the season 6 of 8, and even he feels like he exists only as a mid boss so Daenerys’ invasion isn’t too easy, to be killed once fleets don’t matter anymore.

Of course Cersei takes advantage of the fact that her enemies are scary. New Targaryen invasion, with the Dothraki and Unsullied. Nothing like the good old rulers we have here in Westeros, who may blow up the most holy building on the continent to escape a trial and kill the servants of the main religion, but are at least… from the same continent?

It’s still weird that the Seven is the main religion, when it has been the most useless one in actual action. Did they ever do anything? When the Old Gods were driven from the South, were the Seven doing anything to support their believers? Well, did the Old Gods? Does the Drowned God? Well, if Euron’s fleet’s speed is a boon from the Drowned God, that would explain a lot.

The winter comes to King’s Landing as well. Snow will be next season’s color. Along with darkness, but if the scenery gets any darker I won’t see anything on screen.

A song of fire: Sam arrives at Winterfell, safe and sound. He must have found out about his father and brother on the way, but it’s not mentioned. He meets with Bran, and by giving him a hint of where to look, Bran sees the wedding of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. So they were legally married, and their child, Jon, is not a bastard, but the legal heir to the Throne, Aegon Targaryen. Boom. And there’s him and Daenerys being all Targaryeny.

Bigger thing than the heir business, is that Rhaegar is no longer sullied by the rape, which is the main thing he is remembered for. “He was a noble and great knight from the stories, a great prince, and a rapist whose horribleness brought about the rebellion.” But was that lie better than the truth? Or did someone, last generation’s Littlefinger, spin the story for the worst so a proper war could get started?

Anyway, has Daenerys fought all her battles so that she can give the throne to the rightful heir, who is not her, the Breaker of Chains?

A song of ice: Sansa and Arya talk, and remember their father’s words of working together: The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Legacy.

In the Eastwatch-by-the-sea, bad things happen. A dragon is a nuke option, and the Night King uses it gladly. Its power seems to be enough to destroy the Wall and remove the spells as well. And so the dead march to the lands beyond the Wall, bringing a new night with them.

After all the hype of the Wall, it couldn’t even put up a fight when the dead finally arrived. Beric Dondarrion and Tormund try to run to safety, and I can’t see if they succeed. But I’d presume that there would be a clearer shot if they died. And, well, we are talking of Beric Dondarrion here. He could always play dead.

But guess who from the Night Watch survived the apocalyptic event of the onslaught of the dead and the destruction of the Wall? And did it just by not being where the attack happened? My favourite watchman, Dolorous Edd. How does he do it?

By the way, Night Watch, Long Night, Night King, connecting these took too long for me.

[ilynpilled]

Why does Jaime not fit as Tywin's heir, or it's not in his nature -- as you say. Very interesting stuff.

Jaime is a very romantic character. Tywin can be delusional too (not that this is synonymous with romantic), to absurd levels, trying to achieve an idealized legacy, but he is not an idealist in the way that Jaime is at all. They also have very distinct values and ways of looking and reacting to the world. Remember when he told Jaime this:

"You cannot eat love, nor buy a horse with it, nor warm your halls on a cold night," she heard him tell Jaime once, when her brother had been no older than Tommen.

It is such a deeply funny line to me. It is at the core of how Tywin seems to operate as an individual. And he is telling this to the character named J’aime. The character whose actions are always driven by some aspect of love: be it love that is destructive and prejudiced, or love that is beautiful and altruistic. Like one of his defining character thesis statements is: “The things I do for love.” The point is that Jaime was always a character with a romantic view of things, especially at the start. His feigned cynicism and nihilism cannot even hide this aspect of his character once we finally get into his disillusioned and blackpilled head. Even when you read the prose in his chapters his descriptions are laced with romantic language. Tywin is so caught up with the image of Jaime, the ideal masculine archetype, that he completely ignores the major issues present with Jaime’s nature and how incompatible it is with Tywin’s outlook on life. Jaime is absolutely not a good candidate to be his “cold ruthless and pragmatic with perfect authority” heir. This is why Jaime ends up giving it all away for the KG, and ruins all his plans. He does this for love. He also cares relatively little about being the head of his family and his main motivations are everything that does not fit with so much of Tywin’s outlook. Jaime is concerned more with abstract concepts like honor, chivalry, and love etc than power and politicking. It is also very apparent how distinct they are based on Jaime’s relationship to his siblings and the guilt he feels over Rhaegar’s children and how he reacts to the brutality and cruelty done to Hoat for example. He also keeps running from Tywin’s legacy. First, he gives it all up because he loves Cersei. Then, when he comes back handless, Tywin celebrates like fucking finally, and then Jaime is like nah I’ll stay KG actually, and gets disowned #epic style. Then, he frees his brother because of guilt and because he cared about him unlike Tywin. This is also an action that leads to Tywin’s death. All of his children keep dooming him because he tried to mold them into something that they are not. He wanted Cersei, a passionate, ambitious, and fiery individual to be a submissive tradwife political pawn. He wanted Tyrion to be hidden with no influence or real power, repressing the immense potential that Tyrion has. This is why they are all destined to destroy him and what he has built in some form. (also, I think this idea is also ever present in how Tywin tries to change the twin swords into pure crimson, and how they physically reject it: link, it speaks to Tywin’s failure to mold his legacy into what he wants it to be, as well as the inability to cover up the darkness (ripples of blood and night) with pretty crimson, but I think it also showcases how he fails to mold all his tools, be it Joff, Jaime, Tyrion, Cers) Even when Jaime seeks to emulate his father because he believes his strength is needed to offer protection to his family, he fails at it. There are numerous anti parallels all throughout AFfC and especially his ADwD chapter.

[joannalannister]

I'm feeling really frustrated with the fandom these days. The final season of the show, which I loathe with the ferocity of a thousand suns, is coming and is everywhere and is going to reveal the ending of the books, which frustrates me. There are shipping wars, which I loathe. The theories have dried up. People seem to be extra entitled about TWOW than usual and the people who make fun of it in a good natured are also frustrating me. I just feel disenchanted. What do I do?

I can only tell you what works for me. Idk if my methods would work for anybody else, and just to clarify, this is not me dictating what anyone else should do, this is just what I do. 

1) Block early and block often. I used to just mute people but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  As they say in ADWD, winter’s here babe and not all of us are makin’ it to spring. 

2) Blacklist like it’s 1947. I have three blacklists running simultaneously. Tumblr’s blacklist as a first line of defense, xKit’s blacklist for a “soft” hide because I also have xkit’s whitelist running, and Tumblr Savior for a hardcore blacklist without a whitelist. Blacklist everything. Politely (politely!!) ask people to tag a Thing for blacklisting if necessary. If that does not work, unfollow. Mute and/or block if necessary. I do not recommend using mobile. 

3) Focus on what you love. I’m here to enjoy ASOIAF content. I don’t talk about the characters I don’t like. I don’t hate-read. I don’t write hate meta. Some people define “fandom” as “hating things” and I avoid those people. The people who predominantly hate on things are currently drowning out the people who just want to enjoy things and we gotta turn the tide, we gotta be the change we want to see in the world. (By ASOIAF content, I mean Lannisters.) 

So ask yourself what you love about the books. What parts do you love? What’s your favorite passage? Favorite line? Go reread it. Go blog about it. Do it now, as if this were one of those writer memes. Talk about it or just quote it, but you need a reminder of what you love. Go. I’ll wait. We have time. 

4) Pace yourself. As you well know, this is a marathon, not a sprint. You gotta take breaks, or you’ll burn yourself out. Read other books and watch other tv shows. (I have recs if you need them!) And for the love of r’hllor, make sure you pick up a tactile hobby that doesn’t involve a screen. When I do other things and I enjoy other media, I come back to ASOIAF refreshed. I have new ideas. I look at certain passages with new eyes. So pace yourself. 

5) Brace yourself. This toxic storm is going to get worse before it gets better. I don’t just mean the trashfire that’s coming down the pipe over the next two months. I mean the years between TWOW and ADOS. TWOW is going to be a very dark book, where the Heroes make a lot of morally grey choices and do some terrible things that @ntis will hold up and scream, “see, they were the villain all along!!1!” Expect this with every pov character; batten down the hatches now (see #1 and #2).

6) Sow the seeds of kindness. I cannot change how toxic this fandom has become, but I can tend my small corner of it. I try to say at least one nice thing to someone every time I log on. Send a nice ask, comment on someone’s post, let people know how much you appreciate their hard work. Maybe if enough people did this, everyone together could turn the fandom tide. (Probably unlikely, but it never hurts to hope, or to dream.) 

7) Know your exits. Define precisely what will make you hit the eject button. This can be something(s) the fandom does, something GRRM does, something the show does, whatever, but I have my lines drawn in the sand and I know what will make me say, “I’m done.” I have my exit strategy planned, if necessary. 

8) Find a long term ASOIAF project. Write that looong fanfiction, draw that complicated thing, do that big analysis, whatever. I have more long term ASOIAF projects than I know what to do with, R’hllor help me, I need help with them. 

9) Be steadfast. Listen to me: the books are going to end with the Others defeated. No, I have not read ADOS, but I know this in my heart to be true. GRRM is a dreamer, not a nihilist. 

The show is also going to end with the Others defeated. (Permanently? I don’t know. But defeated? Yes.) The Others defeated - that is what I believe the “same ending” means in the books and the show. 

Everything else is up for grabs. I have sat in an auditorium with GRRM in 2018 and listened to him say – very forcefully – that characters who die on the show will live in the books, and vice versa. 

So when you say, the show “is going to reveal the ending of the books,” I have to disagree with you. I do not think that the endings are going to be entirely the same, aside from the fact that the Others are going to be defeated. I think the showrunners who tout the “same ending” are speaking very broadly, and they don’t care about anything except cool visuals and cold hard cash. 

That show could end with Jon and Dany sharing the Iron Throne with their ten children, and until GRRM says otherwise, I will maintain that the Iron Throne is gonna get melted, and that Jon and Dany will die in the books while saving the world. 

None of my ASOIAF predictions are changing until I have the books in my hands, or GRRM says something that disproves my theories. 

So my advice to you is: Be steadfast. The show is not the books.

The books are an emotional journey. It’s the journey that matters – it’s the range of emotions those words on every page inspire in you – it’s the journey, not the destination. 

I don’t know about you, but that tv show inspires no emotion in me. The books, on the other hand, inspire some of my highest highs and lowest lows. 

Even if everything else turns out to be the same, without that emotion, that is not the same ending. 

10) Theories. I can’t help you with theories, sorry, I hate 90% of ASOIAF theories, but can I interest you in some analysis? I want to talk about bath houses in ASOIAF, Jaime’s loss of faith, Roose and Fahrenheit 451, Jason Lannister, Tywin and remarriage… There’s still lots of things to talk about in ASOIAF. I’m just getting started. Maybe this is just me, but I can entertain myself on the current ASOIAF content for years, I’m mostly self-sufficient here. 

11) The show. It’s coming. We all know it’s coming. 

But that means it’s almost over. We’re almost there. It’s the final push. Our time of testing is almost over. We’re so close. This isn’t a time for despair; this is a time for rejoicing. 

[The peach] was so small she could almost hide it in her palm, and overripe too, but when she took the first bite, the flesh was so sweet she almost cried. She ate it slowly, savoring every mouthful, while Ser Jorah told her of the tree it had been plucked from, in a garden near the western wall.

“Fruit and water and shade,” Dany said, her cheeks sticky with peach juice. “The gods were good to bring us to this place.”

You wanna know what I love about ASOIAF? 

Vaes Tolorro. These past few weeks, I’ve seen it on the horizon, drawing nearer every day. 

So have faith. Be strong. Be steadfast. 

We’re gonna make it through. 

The Winds of Winter is waiting for us on the other side.

[wackygoofball]

Moodboard: Jaime x Brienne - Shadowhunters AU

Brienne of Tarth has been quite busy at the King’s Landing Institute. The Clave assigned the young Shadowhunter a new case to investigate. Mundanes were murdered in odd fashion, a mixture of signatures one would associate with demons, warlocks and the like. Brienne travels to the latest crime scene, surprised to see someone already examining it, the infamous Jaime Lannister, the only honorably discharged Shadowhunter. He killed the former head of the King’s Landing Institute, Aerys Targaryen, and as a result was thrown out.

“Go to hell, Lannister. You are not allowed anywhere near Clave operations.”

“Have already been there, don’t fancy revisiting it. Thanks a lot.”

“Why are you here anyway?”

“Interest? And I am of interest to you because I may happen to have some valuable information, though you will have to ask me for it, nicely, I may add.”

“I think I can handle on my own.”

“I’ll be here once you realize that you need me… what was your name again?”

“None of your business.”

“Odd name. Is it Braavosi?”

“None of you business.”

“You can call me Jaime, just Jaime.”

Brienne just leaves the man standing where he is to investigate for herself. However, to her great dismay, the latest victim does no give her any new clues. When she walks back she is not really surprised but still irritated by the fact that the Kingslayer still lurks around the crime scene, looking at her oh so smugly. Begrudgingly, she asks him for the information he claimed to have. If he has some valuable intel, it is her obligation to obtain it, after all. Her opinion of him should not stand in the way of that.

“There’s one trademark achingly absent from this, wouldn’t you agree?”

“… No Seelie signature.”

“Would seem odd to me that if someone were to pain all Downworlders as bad, that someone would conveniently leave out those nasty always-telling-the-truth-though-not-really Seelies.”

“And do you have anything to support your hypothesis?”

“I may.”

“And you won’t share?”

“I don’t think you have asked me nicely yet.”

“I am fairly sure I did not, because I had no intention to.”

“But you want that intel, don’t you?”

“If you can’t give it, I doubt you even have it, in which case you still remain a waste of my valuable time.”

“Is that a challenge?”

“An educated guess.”

Brienne remains irritated by the man, but against many, many odds, he apparently has some valuable information that may prove vital to the case, leading all the way back to Seelie King Jaqen H’ghar.

Dutifully, Brienne reports back to the ops, leaving a very disappointed Jaime behind as he was hoping she’d at least treat him a coffee for his troubles, but no such luck. Head of the Institute Ned Stark is pleased to hear about the progress on the case she’s made but shows little enthusiasm once she tells him about the unexpected help she received from the Kingslayer.

“He’s up to no good,” he warns her.

“I am aware, but he helped me find evidence I needed to put things together. And I honestly thinks we are on to something bigger than the involvement of the Seelies in the latest attacks.”

“If you know what’s good for you, you will stay away from him in the future, though. That man cannot be trusted, and he has any reason to have something against us, against the Clave. We don’t know what his motivation is.”

“I have any intention to stay clear of him, but if meeting the Kingslayer again serves the Law, I will do what it takes to uphold it, Sir.”

With that, Brienne leaves the office to continue putting her report into writing. She runs into Ned’s daughters Arya and Sansa.

They grey on her by now, and Brienne started to feel responsible for them after their father was gone for a long time, having left everyone, his children included, under the belief that he died like his wife and son and his son’s wife did. Warlock Petyr Baelish collaborated against Ned after Robert’s demise, and it was owed to Varys’s quick thinking and passing him off as dead that bought them the necessary time to get Ned out of the dangerzone and find the people behind the plot. Ever since, things have been strained between the last of the Starks, to say the least, as the girls did not take kindly to the loss of their father and his sudden, unexpected return. While he was gone, Arya in particular joined a dark path, ran away and spent far too much time with the Seelies instead of fellow Shadowhunters. Sansa barely speaks to her father and retreated into herself, focusing most of her attention on handling the administrative duties she was assigned. Brienne took care of the girls after Arya returned to the Institute, for reasons unknown, and while the girls struggle, they grew to have some trust the tall, mannish woman. However, as much as they may have grown to trust Brienne they learned to mistrust their father. Ned, ever since, failed to reconnect with his children. And the fact that he became head of the Institute does not necessarily help the matter as he has little time to spend with his family even though all are in desperate need for just that. Brienne continues to push him, but to no avail.

The man is even more stubborn than she is, and that surely means something.

The blonde Shadowhunter goes back to her usual routines thereafter, but strange occurrences drive her out of the office out into the streets sooner rather than later, as evidence keeps suggesting to her that there is an uprising that may connect to the Night King whom all thought was defeated during the last Long Night. However, that was such a long time ago that people only see it as legend now, though Brienne is afraid that this legend may come to haunt them again if they don’t do something.

And as much as she hates it, this is damn well close to what the Kingslayer suggested to her back when he offered some intel during the Seelie case. He was the only one she ran into until now who had a similar suspicion.

Not knowing where else to turn with her theories, as authorities remain indifferent to her suspicions, Brienne tracks down the Kingslayer. However, disappointment soon overtakes her surge of enthusiasm as she finds Jaime drunk and miserable about himself after a rough night of “memories, too many memories,” as he lulls at her. Brienne isn’t having it and tells the man to get himself together if he means to stay true what he told her, wanting to solve that mystery as much as she. Jaime sobers up somewhat once he realizes just how serious the woman is, not just bothering to track him down but now also expecting better of him.

He didn’t have people put faith in him in a long, long time, after all.

“We have a common goal and the Clave won’t give the orders to further investigate unless I bring the evidence needed. If what you and I came up with turns out to be true, even to the smallest degree, then we may have the second Long Night on our hands and we have to stop it. It may well be that there may be a new uprising of the living dead we banished beyond the Wall. And as much as I hate to admit, you got further down the road than I did with my methods.”

“So that means you trust me?”

“I am willing to have a truce with you.”

“A truce.”

“We both have a common goal, which is to figure out what is going on with the murders, what’s the reason behind it all,” she tells him. “A truce would allow us to work together for this case only.”

“A truce… it does have a nice ring to it.”

“If you think so, meet me tomorrow and sleep off your hangover because I am here for business, not to become your personal nanny.”

“Yes, ma’am.”

Jaime keeps true to his word and shows up at his most presentable the next day, quick to suggest to Brienne that if they want to get to the bottom of this, they have to reach beyond “familiar turfs and venture through the neighbors’ gardens,” which is his way of telling her that they should consult with Downworlders. Brienne is not particularly pleased about that as she was taught to stay clear of them the best she can but tags along anyway.

The Kingslayer brings her to the Dwarf Warlock of King’s Landing. It is only once she sees the two together that Brienne pieces together that this warlock is Tyrion and that Tyrion is Jaime’s brother. As they explain to her, Tyrion was abandoned after his warlock mark was discovered. Tywin had Jaime believe that Tyrion passed away from sickness but actually had him brought away to be with the warlocks instead.

“I am a thing of curiosity in all worlds there are. To the mundanes, I am a simple dwarf with a drinking problem. To my father and sister, I am a monster. To the Shadowhunters I am a warlock with dangerous abilities… and to the warlocks I am a danger all the same as I am the only warlock born from the union of two Shadowhunters, which is a thing of impossibility.”

“Which is why he started getting drunk to cope. I don’t think you’ve ever been sober since you came of age.”

“And I have no intention to start now.”

Jaime found him on a mission when he was younger and still a Shadowhunter out of the handbook when he was working a case. The two agreed to keep it a secret that they are brothers because they would not want to risk Tywin learning that Jaime and he got back together. After all, the man was willing to abandon Tyrion and tell Jaime that he died only just to know them apart.

“And Father won’t ever manage that again, we’ll see to that.”

After Jaime broke with the Clave, he spent most of his time doing nothing, waiting for the end of the Shadow World because he believes it is meant to go down, was always meant to be: “It started with Aerys and it ends with another bad guy. Fire or ice, all the same. In the end, the Shadow World is fucked and I am just here to watch the fireworks.”

Brienne calls him out on that because he came to the scene on his own. “Seems like you give a damn after all.”

“How daring of you to accuse me of caring for anyone but myself, wench.”

“An educated guess.”

Tyrion starts to take interest in not just the case his brother got himself into but also the female Shadowhunter who came to them for help. A little bit of digging around reveals some interesting information about her, namely that she is also known as the Kingslayer, a title both brothers thought was quite unique to Jaime’s case only.

When the leads keep them off the tracks and frustration starts to spread, Jaime and Brienne get into a heated argument, which soon ebbs into Jaime revealing Tyrion’s research about her and asking the really uncomfortable questions of why she is called that and why she never told him that they are “one and the same” after all.

“I am called Kingslayer still even though my case was cleared. We are not the same. I was accused of having murdered Renly Baratheon, but the charges were dropped because of a lack of evidence.”

“Which means they didn’t actually prove your innocence but just didn’t have enough against you to take your runes away.”

“I didn’t do it. Stannis did, but I don’t have the evidence to prove it and bring him to justice before the Law.”

Brienne always dreamed about becoming Renly's parabatai and hoped that he would choose her once it was time, but before Renly could even choose a partner of that sort, he was murdered. Her father wanted her to take over the Institute on Tarth as his successor, but she declined and instead went to King's Landing to stick to Cat after she helped her through the Renly trial and was supportive of her when no one else was. To repay the debt, Brienne felt all the more compelled to take care of Sansa and Arya when Catelyn passed away and they didn’t yet know that their father was still alive.

She wasn’t ready to become head of an Institute, and in Brienne’s mind, that moment won’t ever come as she doesn’t believe herself to be made of the stuff it takes to run an institute: “I don't have charisma, I don't know how to deliver great speeches to inspire people. I know how to fight. I know how to be a Shadowhunter. That is all I will ever be, and that is fine with me. That means I can devote myself to protecting the people I love.”

After that fight, the two feel a closer connection since ever as they now trust one another with their darkest secrets, even more so when Jaime reveals some of the circumstances behind his act of treason that got him dispelled.

And soon, feelings of distrust and misgiving become increasingly replaced by care and… something much stronger, something both actually gave up on long time ago, until they found it again – just with one another.

However, trouble is only ever just a step away as evidence keeps suggesting they are on the right track and they are running out of time to prevent the Long Night. Both have to face some inner demons as they have to confront their past and present, Jaime having to face up against Ned Stark and Brienne having to come to terms with the circumstances of Renly’s death.

When the two discover what has to be done in order to save not just their world but of all others, mundanes and Downworlders alike, and how much sacrifice that may mean not just for themselves but for them together, it puts not just their devotion to the cause to the test but also forces them into the tough choice of how far they are willing to go for duty, if love the price for it.

[janiedean]

I never understood in the books why Jaime took so long to go visit Tyrion. He literally didn't go until the last possible minute when he was helping Tyrion escape. It's not even that he thought Tyrion had killed Joffrey. Please help me understand

you mean in asos right? well, in order:

it’s relatively long if you think about it, in the sense that if you check the most accurate asoiaf timeline around we know that jaime got to KL after joffrey’s murder on day 8 of month 1 of the year and three days before tyrion’s trial starts. now, according to that timeline, the trial goes from day 11 of the first month of the year to day 15, which means it’s five days total including oberyn vs gregor, plus he sends brienne off with the sword on day 20, and tyrion gets freed around day 7 of month two though possibly even later, but let’s say that all in all since jaime got to KL until he frees tyrion roughly a month has passed which seems a lot, but you have to take into account what happened meanwhile;

as in: he comes back, brienne gets arrested, he has to take back his duties, he has the conversation with his father where he gets officially disinherited and refuses to give up the kingsguard, has to put the kg back together or tries to, has to face that his rship with cersei is going to shit, talks to loras, frees brienne, he also knew that jeyne p. wasn’t arya so he was present for her send-off too, refuses cersei in the tower when she asks him to kill tyrion, planned with varys to save his hide and so on, and most likely post-trial anyone would have stood outside the door and heard what they said regardless of how high the lord commander is in the king’s landing food chain;

like, I don’t think he didn’t want to, but with that situation it was extremely complicated to even talk to him without anyone being present, and that’s why he had to scheme with varys to free him and he most likely had to *plan* it and he couldn’t exactly go up to him and hint that he was about to do it.

also, that’s not specified in the text overtly so that’s my two cents, but I also think that the fact that he spilled the tea about tysha when he let tyrion go says a lot, in the sense that....

rewind: as established previously (sorry with the way I have the blog rn I can’t link you but if you try looking for janie writes meta under the tag something should come up still), jaime’s preferred to-go coping method to deal with his shit is not thinking about it, and guess what tysha comes up in his POVs twice exactly or not much more than that....... except that what is that he does when he thinks he might not see tyrion in his life ever again?

he spills the tea about that and my money is that until he lost the hand and so on he just didn’t think about it period because he hated that he did it (and ofc he has no way to process that it was abuse on tywin’s part concerning him too because again, while tyrion is 100% aware that both tywin and cersei are abusing the shit out of him jaime has no idea whatsoever and most likely would refuse to consider it if someone told him straight before he did the work himself) and he hated that it ruined tyrion’s life and he hated that he was part of it. but he doesn’t let himself consider it or think about it until he loses the hand and not even that much later, but what is the last thing he thinks in his last chapter before he shows up to free tyrion later?

that he can be whatever he chooses. and guess what, we have another two weeks we don’t know much of what happens in because we have no pov from either of them and what does he do the moment he frees him? ah, he tells him the truth. so my money is also that he knew that if he visited he’d end up spilling about tysha but he also didn’t want to face the consequences/wanted to postpone it until the last moment because he knew it would hurt their relationship badly and he didn’t want that to happen and he also most likely was working through it as much as he could. now, the conclusion is that being that he can be whatever he chooses, he chooses to be honest and own up to his mistakes and save tyrion’s life because he *knows* he didn’t kill joffrey and he loves him for better or worse and he doesn’t want the two of them to part with that lie in between them (because he hates himself for having partaken in it) and he doesn’t want tyrion to keep on thinking that tysha never loved him for who he was because I think he knows that it hurt tyrion so much he thinks no one could love him for who he is anymore. but like... I can see that if you add *that* to all of the above matters and if we take for granted (which i think we can) that jaime wouldn’t reach that conclusion in two hours but would need the full two-three weeks to work himself up to face that conversation, then he wouldn’t go see tyrion first regardless of how much he’d have wanted to.

that’s my two cents anyway but even if it wasn’t for the tysha matter... the practical problems posed by visiting your brother in the cells when he’s been condemned to death and your sister wanted you to kill him and you absolutely would never want to and you know he’s innocent *while* you’re realizing that your sister was an abusive asshole who treated *you* like shit as well for all of your life are enough that I think it explains it.

[evangelineartemiasamos]

do you mind elaborating on why you are anti bri/jame? no worries if you don't want to talk about it. i myself first read their riverlands arc as a redemption arc for J and an internal honor arc for both of them rather than a romantic one, then i saw that a lot of people shipped it. so i'm always interested in seeing why people have stronger opinions on the ship (both pro and anti) than i do. - maxine

Don’t worry, this is fine. Indeed, I’d like to talk about them, so thanks for asking.

Note that my opinions are based on when I read the books 7 years ago, so a) my memories are bound to be vague, and b) I never gave the show version of them a shipping chance.

My foremost reason why I don’t ship them is because Jaime treats Brienne like shit. He insults her aloud and in his head and I don’t abide this kind of bullying, least of all the concept of from bully to lover. No bullying victim deserves this, and I think only someone who wasn’t bullied can imagine not only to forgive a bully, but also to fall in love with them. But that’s just me. I don’t think a bullying victim can ever fully trust their bully (again) which is necessary for love. It’s hard for bullying victims to trust people in general, and Jaime cuts into the very same wounds Brienne already had to deal with for years. So it’s good that he changes, but that is only basic human decency, not romance. I mean, look at Tormund in the show. He admires Brienne from the start and supports her. I don’t remember for sure if his behaviour is always appropriate (ID, whether his behaviour borders on sexual harassment), but his affection is what I think someone like Brienne needs. So this is why I couldn’t see Jaime and Brienne in a romantic light from the start.

Another point, which is somewhat different to the first, is that I think their morals are incompatible. Their contrast is well-written and was a good idea for the story and character development, but I see it mostly as this: a plot device. I like how Jaime and Brienne display different aspects of chivalry to explore its meaning and, in my opinion, to undermine it. Jaime is seen as the perfect knight because he comes from the right family, has the right job, great fighting skills and looks good. But all of these traits are shallow and have nothing to with chivalry and moral behaviour or with Jaime as a person, who is indifferent, self-serving, biased, weak-willed, ruthless and living in an adulterous, incestuous (and traitorous) relationship. And while he is praised for his superficially “good” traits, he is reviled for the one thing he did out of convinction it was the morally right deed for the greater good - killing Aerys. I find him very interesting for this, because he embodies so well the main message of moral ambiguity in ASOIAF. Jaime follows his own opinions, but the problem is that he has so few. He could be willing to subvert Westerosi conventions if he cared enough and dared to act, but like everyone else, he is still bound by rules too. Or rather he lets himself be ruled and manipulated by Cersei and Tywin as he’s too coward to really go his own way and rather remains in toxic relationships. But as the story progresses, the image the reader can make of him is quite fluid because he has a lot of potential that is used in the story. And then, not only our image of him changes, but also Jaime himself.

Brienne, on the other hand, behaves according to the actual chivalric code and is willing to follow it no matter what. She doesn’t let herself be stopped by conventions saying no to her and for that, she faces a huge amount of backlash. Brienne is how a knight should be, but society doesn’t accept her because she doesn’t fit the perfect, superficial image like Jaime (for being female in a misogynistic world). You might think that is admirable, and in a way, I agree. But it also means that Brienne behaves in a very dogmatic way, refusing many ways act right from the start because she can’t unite them with her naive dream of ideal chivalry. It doesn’t exist, and so Brienne fails. Often. The world throws rocks at her again and again and she hardly thinks of changing and adapting.

Chivalry is the most important thing to Brienne but it is also what harms her as society has lost and forgotten the meaning of chivalry. I can understand that she holds on to it to keep going, but that doesn’t mean that I have to like that. In my opinion, Martin is trying to say that chivalry is dead because it’s lost its meaning, so people have to find their own ways to do the right thing instead of clinging to something outlived. That idea appeals to me a lot, I have to admit. Brienne isn’t willing to reform her concept of chivalry although it’d would help her to protect herself. This might be my petty streak, but I would’ve respected someone more who realizes the flaws fo their beliefs and yet finds a method to integrate them into a more prolific way of life. Brienne’s behaviours irks me.

I think the dynamic of Sansa and Sandor deals with similar fallible assumptions of knighthood, but displays more nuance in the way Sansa reacts to her fracturing beliefs and learns from that.

I believe an appeal of Brienne and Jaime’s dynamic lies in changing him and less her. In a way, Jaime slowly learns to care for a stranger he starts with being as indifferent to as to nearly everyone else. That is pretty big for Jaime amd sparking his further development, but not a future romance (losing his hand also plays a role here of course, as it means that he too loses his perfect knight image and has to reevaluate how to embody knighthood). Brienne works as a role model he needed to change, but this development is unequal. IDK, I think their characters arcs are more about finding themselves instead of the other. So far as the books go, this dynamic doesn’t evolve. They’re two people who came to respect one another, nothing more. I don’t see him and Brienne suddenly walking down the romantic route together because they’re going in different ways. Of course, you might say they are going in similar ways because Jaime takes Brienne’s chivalry to heart, but that doesn’t erase all the shit he has done. He’ll have to face the consequences without hiding behind his family and his image and I don’t believe Brienne will follow there. She might listen, but I rather see her as his (fair) judge than someone who falls for him despite everything.

And all in all, I hate the sheer heteronormativeness of the ship. “Oh, we have a woman and man going through a quest and many dangers together and while they quarrle and get to know and grow fond of each other, so surely it has to mean they’ll fall in love!!” Eww, no thanks. As I elaborated above, Jaime merely learns not to be an arrogant ass and to treat someone who isn’t part of his esteemed disgusting family with decency and respect. Furthermore, Jaime isn’t even ready to be in another romantic relationship because while he doesn’t know how he feels for Cersei, he does know that he still feels too close to her. When I read the books, I tried to ignore any hints there might be a romance between Brienne and Jaime, and that worked because their interaction is platonic and should be allowed to remain so. Being an anti is more about many in the fandom wanting to see them together while I can’t stand the idea.