#i. love. linguistics. (((:

[perfectlyripeclementine]

calling my lover "mine" but not in the way that my toothbrush or notebook are mine, mine in the way my neighborhood is mine, and also everybody else's, "mine" like mine to tend to, mine to care for, mine to love. "mine" not like possession but devotion.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

hope you feel better soon!

I am riddled with ailments, but I stay silly!

[mellpenscorner]

Modern Writing Advice: don't load your readers down with a bunch of different names! Keep things simple so they can remember what you're talking about.

JR²T Himself: And here are these three mountains. Now listen to Gimli wax poetic about them and their names and histories in three different languages, then refer to the Extra Educational Material at the end of your volume to see what he's talking about.

[scribefindegil]

As much as I adore conlangs, I really like how the Imperial Radch books handle language. The book is entirely in English but you're constantly aware that you're reading a "translation," both of the Radchaai language Breq speaks as default, and also the various other languages she encounters. We don't hear the words but we hear her fretting about terms of address (the beloathed gendering on Nilt) and concepts that do or don't translate (Awn switching out of Radchaai when she needs a language where "citizen," "civilized," and "Radchaai person" aren't all the same word) and noting people's registers and accents. The snatches of lyrics we hear don't scan or rhyme--even, and this is what sells it to me, the real-world songs with English lyrics, which get the same "literal translation" style as everything else--because we aren't hearing the actual words, we're hearing Breq's understanding of what they mean. I think it's a cool way to acknowledge linguistic complexity and some of the difficulties of multilingual/multicultural communication, which of course becomes a larger theme when we get to the plot with the Presgar Translators.

[brightlotusmoon]

[frenchiepal]

my camera roll from the last couple of months ⋆｡°✩

[splatoonpolls]

Scrumping means to steal fruit from someone else’s property.

Also! Reblog for a bigger audience

[burningfaith]

[lurkingteapot]

Every now and then I think about how subtitles (or dubs), and thus translation choices, shape our perception of the media we consume. It's so interesting. I'd wager anyone who speaks two (or more) languages knows the feeling of "yeah, that's what it literally translates to, but that's not what it means" or has answered a question like "how do you say _____ in (language)?" with "you don't, it's just … not a thing, we don't say that."

I've had my fair share of "[SHIP] are [married/soulmates/fated/FANCY TERM], it's text!" "[CHARACTER A] calls [CHARACTER B] [ENDEARMENT/NICKNAME], it's text!" and every time. Every time I'm just like. Do they though. Is it though. And a lot of the time, this means seeking out alternative translations, or translation meta from fluent or native speakers, or sometimes from language learners of the language the piece of media is originally in.

Why does it matter? Maybe it doesn't. To lots of people, it doesn't. People have different interests and priorities in fiction and the way they interact with it. It's great. It matters to me because back in the early 2000s, I had dial-up internet. Video or audio media that wasn't available through my local library very much wasn't available, but fanfiction was. So I started to read English language Gundam Wing fanfic before I ever had a chance to watch the show. When I did get around to watching Gundam Wing, it was the original Japanese dub. Some of the characters were almost unrecognisable to me, and first I doubted my Japanese language ability, then, after checking some bits with friends, I wondered why even my favourite writers, writers I knew to be consistent in other things, had made these characters seem so different … until I had the chance to watch the US-English dub a few years later. Going by that adaptation, the characterisation from all those stories suddenly made a lot more sense. And the thing is, that interpretation is also valid! They just took it a direction that was a larger leap for me to make.

Loose adaptations and very free translations have become less frequent since, or maybe my taste just hasn't led me their way, but the issue at the core is still a thing: Supernatural fandom got different nuances of endings for their show depending on the language they watched it in. CQL and MDZS fandom and the never-ending discussions about 知己 vs soulmate vs Other Options. A subset of VLD fans looking at a specific clip in all the different languages to see what was being said/implied in which dub, and how different translators interpreted the same English original line. The list is pretty much endless.

And that's … idk if it's fine, but it's what happens! A lot of the time, concepts -- expressed in language -- don't translate 1:1. The larger the cultural gap, the larger the gaps between the way concepts are expressed or understood also tend to be. Other times, there is a literal translation that works but isn't very idiomatic because there's a register mismatch or worse. And that's even before cultural assumptions come in. It's normal to have those. It's also important to remember that things like "thanks I hate it" as a sentiment of praise/affection, while the words translate literally quite easily, emphatically isn't easy to translate in the sense anglophone internet users the phrase.

Every translation is, at some level, a transformative work. Sometimes expressions or concepts or even single words simply don't have an exact equivalent in the target language and need to be interpreted at the translator's discretion, especially when going from a high-context/listener-responsible source language to a low-context/speaker-responsible target language (where high-context/listener responsible roughly means a large amount of contextual information can be omitted by the speaker because it's the listener's responsibility to infer it and ask for clarification if needed, and low-context/speaker-responsible roughly means a lot of information needs to be codified in speech, i.e. the speaker is responsible for providing sufficiently explicit context and will be blamed if it's lacking).

Is this a mouse or a rat? Guess based on context clues! High-context languages can and frequently do omit entire parts of speech that lower-context/speaker-responsible languages like English regard as essential, such as the grammatical subject of a sentence: the equivalent of "Go?" - "Go." does largely the same amount of heavy lifting as "is he/she/it/are you/they/we going?" - "yes, I am/he/she/it is/we/you/they are" in several listener-responsible languages, but tends to seem clumsy or incomplete in more speaker-responsible ones. This does NOT mean the listener-responsible language is clumsy. It's arguably more efficient! And reversely, saying "Are you going?" - "I am (going)" might seem unnecessarily convoluted and clumsy in a listener-responsible language. All depending on context.

This gets tricky both when the ambiguity of the missing subject of the sentence is clearly important (is speaker A asking "are you going" or "is she going"? wait until next chapter and find out!) AND when it's important that the translator assign an explicit subject in order for the sentence to make sense in the target language. For our example, depending on context, something like "are we all going?" - "yes" or "they going, too?" might work. Context!

As a consequence of this, sometimes, translation adds things – we gain things in translation, so to speak. Sometimes, it's because the target language needs the extra information (like the subject in the examples above), sometimes it's because the target language actually differentiates between mouse and rat even though the source language doesn't. However, because in most cases translators don't have access to the original authors, or even the original authors' agencies to ask for clarification (and in most cases wouldn't get paid for the time to put in this extra work even if they did), this kind of addition is almost always an interpretation. Sometimes made with a lot of certainty, sometimes it's more of a "fuck it, I've got to put something and hope it doesn't get proven wrong next episode/chapter/ten seasons down" (especially fun when you're working on a series that's in progress).

For the vast majority of cases, several translations are valid. Some may be more far-fetched than others, and there'll always be subjectivity to whether something was translated effectively, what "effectively" even means …

ANYWAY. I think my point is … how interesting, how cool is it that engaging with media in multiple languages will always yield multiple, often equally valid but just sliiiiightly different versions of that piece of media? And that I'd love more conversations about how, the second we (as folks who don't speak the material's original language) start picking the subtitle or dub wording apart for meta, we're basically working from a secondary source, and if we're doing due diligence, to which extent do we need to check there's nothing substantial being (literally) lost -- or added! -- in translation?

[saphig-iawn]

the feminine urge to skulk through the rain slicked streets of an african mega city in the wake of an invasion to solve a mystery that could turn the tide of a war unlike mankind has ever seen

[meirimerens]

oh? can you please tell me more about what line has the You>you slip up english only having a formal pronoun really fuck with some dynamics sometimes and im so curious now cause i cant read russian

yessiREE okay so in the russian version, at some point, conversation goes like this :

Бакалавр … чудовищные смеси из толчёных таблеток, да! Они их называют «порошочки». [...] Да… я слышал. Более того… я проверял. Так что и вы не смейтесь надо мной, коллега. Как вас там… эрдэм. >Ты проверял?.. То есть… вы проверяли? >Я не эрдэм. Эмшен скорей -- но так не слишком скромно. Хирурга у нас называют «яргачин», как мясника.

this exchange, if you choose the first option, is followed by Dankovsky's:

Можно и на ты. Да, проверял. [...]

or, translated (through deepl, because, well. i don't read russian either Thumbs up emoji) as it stands, is:

Bachelor : …monstrous mixtures of crushed pills, yes! They call them "[shmowders]". [...] Yes… I've heard that. In fact... I've tested it. So don't make fun of me either, colleague. What's your name... Erdem. >You(informal, singular form) checked?.. I mean, uh... You(formal, singular form) checked? >I'm not an Erdem. Emshen rather - - but that's not too modest. We call a surgeon "yargachin", like a butcher.

and followed by Dankovsky's:

You can use you(informal form). Yes, I checked.

In the english translation this sentence of Burakh's & Dankovsky's response go as follow:

B: Holy shit… Sorry, excuse my language. So you've checked, then? D: You don't have to watch your tongue with me. Yes, I've checked. [...]

as you can see, in the original version, Burakh slipped INTO the informal, friendlier, and maybe less respectful "ты" FROM the more formal, respectful "вы". Since the english language has no distinction between a formal and an informal singular you/You, the translator had to go around it, and make it about cursing instead of the pronoun switching. on one hand, #respect because translation is a hard annoying hair-pulling job. on the other hand, i feel like this strippppsssss the scene of its...... tension. slipping from вы to ты is a way to show that burakh started considering himself real buddy-buddy with dankovsky. or maybe lost some of the (potentially convention-mandated) respect in speech he held for dankovsky. it's a hint that he had started to, subconsciously, see dankovsky as less Above him, keeping the formality by convention. AND, dankovsky telling HIM he can use the informal form, and doesn't have to keep using the formal one, is a way to recontextualize, and to reshape their relationship. he's shedding the distance of respect and and formality that was between them, he's actively telling burakh to forgo it.

in the english translation, i feel like this shedding of distance and formality is more accomplished in dankovsky's response alone: You don't have to watch your tongue with me. It's an authorization to curse, on this one, yes, but also to more openly discuss painful, annoying things, even if you gotta slip a fuck(THE CURSE WORD) in there.

i'll always be so so sad about the lack of english's formal/informal singular you distinction. makes for a very neutered language. the inherent closeness of accidentally calling someone ты/toi instead of вы/vous and not being called out on it............

[lazylittledragon]

You actually CAN use different words to muffle emotional effects! we've been making euphemisms for death for as long as we've had language, that's why we say things like "passed away". even the word "die" was an old Norse euphemism for the old English word "sweltan", which itself is a euphemism for the even older word "diegan". (I really agree with your post, the origin of using "unalive" is incredibly dystopian and censorship is awful, I just wanted to infodump about linguistics)

that's actually really cool!!!! thank you for sharing!!!

also anon i'm in a linguistics fixation right now so we shall have a summer wedding

[respectthepetty]

I don't know how it is in Taiwanese Sign Language, but in American Sign Language, signs are distinguished by handshape, location, and movement, so when Zi Xiang did the sign for FLY, he had the correct handshape and movement.

But it was the wrong location.

And he has been shown to make the location error several times.

Therefore, I don't think he signed LANGUAGE

Handshape and movement are the same, but he did it closer to his lower face, like his chin.

While Shao Peng did it above his mouth.

Therefore, I think Zi Xiang actually signed something about being with Shao Peng rather than LANGUAGE (communicating with him), and that's why Shao Peng paused.

But maybe it's nothing, and I shall enjoy this sign in the meantime.

[2isted-chocol8-art]

hii!! Would you be cool with drawing maybe Hatch with Hal teasing eachother? (Hatch teasing about height, half teasing about the nickname?) Or whatever you want really,

Love your art!!!

I like to think about hatchy's childhood and how they probably spent most of their time with Hal- They'd be a double pack! Reminder that my requests are open ::) -> More Outer Wilds Art!

[uncanny-tranny]

If you need help practicing pronouns, try using the pronouns you struggle with on your pets!

Animals have very little understanding of pronouns and human gender. They won't care if you use he, it, she, xie, bun, literally whatever - they only care about you and their food. They'll be fine! However, your loved ones will appreciate your effort in using pronouns, and using them properly. It's a win-win situation!

[visualtaehyun]

I already spent way too much time watching and dissecting this episode so let's get right into it!

Disclaimer: not a native Thai speaker, still learning 🙏

Title

คลื่นกลางมหาสมุทร /khluen glaang mahasamut/ = waves/ripples amidst the ocean

-> "Echoes Across the Endless Blue" sounds super pretty and, most obviously, it seems to refer to Rak's panic attack underwater

Writer Tongrak

Love that Mut's shirt matches the tassel curtains in Rak's room lol

I copied down the entirety of the 4 articles Mut found but I don't have time right now to translate them so let's just breeze over the last two right now-

The articles mention two of Rak's novels (irl they're MAME's obviously): - "The Boy Next World คนละกาลเวลา" aka the new BossNoeul series - "Love Director วาดรักกํากับใจ" aka the novels Prapai's uncle Frost is from

ViMook

their pronoun use: มุก /Mook/ -> พี่(วี) /phi (Vi)/ and พี่ /phi/ -> มุก /Mook/

A->B is to be understood as I->you, meaning Mook calls herself by name and Vi does so vice versa, and, because Vi is the older one, they both refer to her as พี่ /phi/

The name of Vi's script is so on the nose omg

กลพรางนางมารร้าย /gon phraang naang maan raai/ "The Devil's Tricks"

-> นาง /naang/ specifically means a woman, นางมารร้าย /naang maan raai/ can mean villainess, evil woman, demoness, ...think femme fatale, too. For reference, "The Devil Wears Prada" is called นางมารสวมปราด้า /naang maan suam Prada/ in Thai.

-> as far as I can make out, the cover says 'written and directed by วรรณรัตน์ รัตนเดช' (no clue what it says below his name) - that's Love Sea's art director:

And because I just about lost it at Vi leaving her underwear out for Mook to clean, here's our dearest pearl holding Vi's lacy undies hehehe

I keep calling her pearl btw because that's what her name means- ไข่มุก /khai mook/ = pearl

รางวัลสำหรับเลขาคนเก่ง /raang-wan sam-rap leh-khaa khohn geng/

-> เก่ง /geng/ is the same compliment Mut gives Rak later:

...and what got fittingly translated as "Quite the biter":

กัดเก่งเลยน่ะ /gat geng loei na/

ชาติที่แล้วเป็นหมารึไง /chaat thee laaeo bpen maa reu ngai?/ = Were you a dog in your previous life or what?

More from and about Rak

This translation took me out, it's so fitting and funny:

เสร็จแล้ว ปล่อยแล้ว ก็กลับไปได้แล้ว /set laaeo, bplaawy laaeo - gaaw glap bpai dai laaeo/ = Finished/Came, released - then you can go back now.

ก็ใครจีบพี่สุดหล่อติดน่ะ /gaaw khrai jip phi soot laaw dtit na/ = Well, whoever's gonna succeed in pursuing that handsome Phi (Rak).

พาไปกินข้าวหน่อย /phaa bpai gin khaao naawy/ -> หน่อย /naawy/ softens the request which kinda surprised me after he came in so fiercely with the possessiveness (that he immediately denied lol)

She calls herself พี่ /phi/ as in Rak's literal older sister! The credits tell me her name is ของขวัญ /khaawng khwan/ = gift, present