#i'm also old enough and with enough life experience to confirm
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discluded · 2 years ago
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I don't know how MA do it. They're the peaceful, respectful and loving people who repeatedly say their number 1 priority is make other people happy and spread positivity yet these couple months they had to endure so much drama and ill-intentioned attacks (fake rumors, cyberbullying, homoph*bic, classist attacks. etc) I feel so exhausted on their behalf cause I know they're aware of what it's been said. I know this one of downsides of fame and I trust their mature mindset to take this bs for what it is but I can't stop myself from feeling sad for them cause they don't deserve this treatment. Tss and antis are plague to this fandom I wish we could eradicate. Mile and Apo deserve so much better from their own fandom!!
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unproduciblesmackdown · 4 months ago
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also it's something (better) like, the exercise of deliberately [art imitates life imitates art] holding up Billions to My IRL Things Perspective and going like whaaat would i want for winston. first answer is you want any character to not have been within the scope of the show in the first place, and to exit it since they are. and you kind of get that in the accidental reward in banishing winston, since like in the end it's just that the show doesn't care about him existing at that point But like it's winston sitting there quietly as everyone leaves & turns out the lights & Then he can leave too; others have peaced out & nobody remembers he exists so Now he can go off & do whatever.
but like in true form i think they definitely accidentally baked in another divine reward for winston in that, like, the way he's kept around as fodder for these fun little [pov: enjoy abusing this guy] asides with him, where it Just So Happens that he's autistic as something they're unaware of but is completely relevant to the expectation we understand him to be inferior(tm), it Just So Happens that he's also ""bad"" at not ""causing"" abuse to be turned on him. he's ""bad"" at staying in line. like well yes Yes that's what i want for him. just like In Real Life it's like yeah Ideally i'd want people to be able to extricate themselves from where they're trapped in power structures & i'd want them to have the perspective about it of understanding they're not Inferior / i.e. they are as much a person as anyone else and they're not corrupting everything good / i.e. it wasn't them Bringing It Upon Themselves and it's not them being Destructive by toppling a jenga tower of a hierarchy that happened to be pressing down on them. and winston is the kind of [the ruinerrrrrr] who is Turned On exactly because he keeps acting like someone who's on the verge of breaking out of the [being in line] someone demands of him as autist, employee, whatever other supposed manifestations of [inferior]
like in the 5 second stretches in which winston's allowed to speak before retaliation, it's because he's like "matter of factly" delivering whatever Information that's useful for another plotline. then he Brings It Upon Himself by making people aware that he's Also existing in his own right as a person rather than what they think serves their own deal / what they want from him at all times, perhaps by expressing his personality (didn't appeal to them! so it was Wrong) or not b/c of anything in particular said or done at present, just b/c people have a constant / accumulating contempt for him so their being in the same room as him & able to see & hear him is already dangerous. the [we're just seeing Any Abusive Dynamic in action] continuing apace.
and it's like, well, right there. he's written as acting like someone who doesn't blame himself for how he's treated, which billions frames as being Rude & Mean, and so too does everyone's abusers lmfao like and that these are his moments that are written to be Bringing It Upon Himself. and it's like hell yeah he doesn't blame himself. hell yeah that his self-esteem can manifest as anger at all. hell yeah that he keeps expressing himself with personality & confidence & doesn't even disguise his having been hurt, & it's this [his ass is Not grey rocking] that billions frames as both him "causing" his abuse & making that abuse "successful" lol, wrow just like real life!! and when like speaking of real life yeah it's not "bad" that people Do engage in strategies to mitigate & survive, including things like blaming themselves or being too "boring" to be anything but a non dialogued background character b/c that's all that goes unpunished, it's bad b/c it's done to them at all, not [ohh they're doing it to themselvesss] and like i'm asking myself like Ideally. what do i want Ideally. and i'd want winston to know that it's being Done To Him & i'd want him to find as much room for his personhood & autonomy as possible. and that's basically how he's written anyways, and billions hates that like You See this is why he deserves it this is why he's doing it to himself. and i'm like my god if that's not Inspiration for like "so what if people don't find you Personally Likable" and not preemptively holding back all personality or anything that'd draw attention as if you exist as a person in your own right & not something that only either gets in the way of or serves their wants of a Real person (someone with more power) like hell yeah you have him out here doing it =']
another fun addendum is like, billions isn't getting into it much b/c it doesn't seem to care much about "what if some people were peers & seem to have a genuine, recipcrocal relationship?" but that it just so happened to be like "oh tuk as the next closest loser who deserves it might be nice to winston" while it's framing winston as the "worse" Loser as being....unconditionally supportive of tuk. while the one downside of billions Also giving bentuk as much as it is is that it also inevitably has that shadow of "but ben is Superior to tuk" and like that it's correct that everyone encourages tuk to Stop Bringing It Upon Himself and start being less of a loser; it's wrong for winston to be like hey let's go have a foursome. like yeah probably don't make a list of the women you work with you'd be dtf but it's not like i'm convinced "ah billions and it's strong anti misogyny stance like" roflmao and billions is Not reflecting on "the downsides of unconditional support?" there when winston was beaten up for criticising taylor earlier like we WILL take his ideas while looting his [beaten unconscious] body there but he WAS wrong to express them as though he's BETTER than taylor!!! mafee's beautiful show of loyalty in kicking his ass even when he might agree with the argument and then benefit when it's adopted by taylor anyways! so it's as usual actually purely based on hierarchy & who gets to be in charge of people. it's correct for ben to be in charge of tuk, unless he has to step aside for that bizarre dead-end subplot about how it's tuk's fault if he's treated badly, b/c it's really his own Failure to have Confidence to know he has good ideas [raising our voice to deliver this message over the sound of breaking desks and chairs and computer monitors over winston because he had the confidence to act like he deserved to talk to someone and because he knows his ideas efforts & results are good & valuable around there] like. and isn't it sooo fucked up to talk about who you're dtf in the episode that has it be neutral if your boss is dtf & lets you know but is nice about it (and you're already Correctly tending to their ego, which you're responsible for!) like hey no possible problem! it's not even so much of a problem for a boss man to have the sex they're entitled to & be rude about their leveraging their power in that acquisition that it Stays a problem into the next season. ew, winston is Known (Inferred) Dtf??? we'll use it to exploit His vulnerability, exacerbate it, & punish him further for good measure in another episode that just revels in abuse & violation with a sexual aspect once again, but like, hey tuk don't do that, winston's such a Bad Influence for being like, shrug, kneejerk intervening with the Good Friendship where the One In Charge leaps in & Tells tuk the Correct thing to do. obviously there's also the tragedy that billions will Never let winston push back against Real Winners like rian or taylor in A Way That Matters (actually gets in their way at all) lol like. one thing that would have really been fun, winston should've literal kneejerk started physically fighting wags in either pertinent scene in 7x03 for real 110%. i wouldn't be like Gasp Violence Is Never The Answer if he just hit someone to hit them b/c fuck you. or broke anything on his way out etc etc. billions would Never let him. which is the other side of the same coin of [why he should get to]
tl;dr how great that winston's being "out of line" means he's basically always noticeably flouting & rebelling against the [He Deserves Abuse] agenda lol. that IS what i want. his being "beyond hope" like ohhh he's sooo stupid he doesn't realize how much he has the bad tastes & wrong interests & annoying personality He Will Always Be This Way like hell yeah!!! billions like oh no winston's personhood will never stay tamped down & locked away such that some godawful person tolerates keeping him in their inventory :( ohhh the ABA will never work :( that's right!!!!!!!!!! although they're not sad about it because it's about relishing the promise there will always be True Inferiors you can enjoy abusing with your righteous power over, but like well you wrote him escaping anyways even while dragging other "better" characters into standing around to serve axe's need for more than 1.8 employees and [crickets, reverberating cough, sneaker scuff] like. another ""wrong"" thing for winston to do, another thing for him to not "deserve," which is itself godawful actually lol like lord what it "rewards" its Good, Deserving characters with, no thanks. meanwhile winston's punishment is that he's autistic and """bad""" at being abused like lmfao good for him, fantastic for him, just what i want
#winston billions#a series that did inadvertently power up the stances of someone who actually is Not a fan of ableism; abuse; authoritarianism; and cetera#real winston billions fans might also get written off the series into the ether....but hey. the power up#the ''i saw the autistic character. i saw the tour de force'' was there & it mattered#myself marked glad to be A Ruinerrrrr; to like be present where other people might be aware & even say & do things & [my personality]#throw it back to the last post like my experience going hahaha >:) but you made one mistake. decade old minivan in my name#enough to Get Outta There....but that naturally if it Wasn't that Would be an avenue of punishing / reeling people back in#hey you Stole this from me. hey winston that's Stolen Time and stolen data who give a shit. it's the principle of [we own winston]#my experience also indeed getting ''''worse'''' at being abused lmao i.e. more conflict & resentment as i was increasingly aware i didn't#deserve it. no thanks to much of anything i learned in; say; interacting with others as an autistic person lmao. hmm!#meanwhile even if exploring like Winston Having Fun Being Himself it's like one thing is just. never having the Site of that be like#first & foremost An Romance lol. like even if it's like sure someone could interpret this as romantic that's like; an extra thing#and it's not The Guideline like; not thinking that for winston to be okay he Needs to get on the soulmate track#(billions does think that lol) and like. while billions says winston Has dated (i do think they meant to imply Multiple Times in 5x05#i just think we see that they usually don't care oh so much abt continuity; certainly not across the board) & that he has a crush#like then uhh yeah sure it's like. well i can readily extrapolate then that he's had abusive dating relationships.#billions does Not put forth that someone treating winston Well is where he gets the bulletproof confidence or anything lol#just cursed like again i'm not. i'm not gonna accept [wild you dropped steph into our Visuals as like 1 Confirmed Winston Ex]#but it's also like well then any Depiction would be The Perspective....not like. the abuse currently happening & in any way that is meant#to be ''''obvious'''' & ''''convincing'''' to someone w/no idea what it looks like anyways. vs the mundane ordinary parts that speak to it#or just the ways that experience & concomitant perspective could manifest outside of it even with No look inside it#running into issues like [good thing riawin didn't even hook up or that'd be More vulnerability in an abusive relationship already]#but what if they did & Montage Of Malaise? well to even brush up against inevitable more ''blatant'' things would then either be like#well immediately move Away from that then. before or after but Exit the [current] situation. Or it'd be like. rian has to Reconsider#but a) the character absolutely does not & based on everything will not. & b) if she actually Does; e.g. in a fic. well it's about her now#but i can think of ''yeah maybe winstuk fic that is also framed with bentuk b/c it's not really about Romance & if it's like sure then why#Not presume winston has experiences w/abuse & violation aplenty b/c that's the full context for the character lol it's then still like#and here's little details in which that could Manifest that would just be [??] or unnoticed to others anyways. just like real life!!''
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confessedlyfannish · 1 year ago
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DP x DC Writing Prompt #9
"Are you sure about this?" J'onn asks, reading the discontent amongst the Kents. Clark and Lois each have a hand on their teenage son's shoulders, who several weeks prior was aged ten years old.
"We're sure," Clark says. He is not, nor is his wife. But his son is, who lays his hand on his mother's and squeezes. It is that surety that J'onn honors as he delves into the young (but not as young as he should be) man's mind.
The memories are hard to find but not gone, hidden behind what Jon can only see manifested as a glowing green wall. When he raises a tentative hand, the shield sparks green, but does no harm. Pushing through is like wading through the consistency of jello, which he finds an overall unpleasant experience. But he is unharmed as he passes through.
Before J'onn can sort through the memories he is all but sucked into the one at the forefront, where a Jon most similar in visage to the one recently returned perches on the edge of a building. Beside him lies a burger, partially unwrapped though uneaten, and a small soda.
As the memory builds out a sun sets on a small suburban town, and a muscled thigh knocks into Jon's, an older man with a shock of white hair and eyes the same light and color as the shield formed around these memories appearing. He's tall even sitting, likely about as tall as Superman, and looks to be in his thirties. A full body suit comprised of black and silver accents stretches across broad shoulders, a stylized D on his chest. He knocks his thigh into Jon's again.
"You said I couldn't go back," Jon says quietly.
"I lied," the man says lightly.
"You're lying now," Jon says, glaring at him. "I can hear your heart."
"Nice try, kiddo, I don't have a heart in this form," the man says, reaching a hand out, presumably to ruffle his hair. Jon dodges.
"I know you're lying. You would've told me. You would've helped me get home."
"Jon--"
"You're protecting Clockwork, aren't you?" Jon demands, eyes beginning to burn red. "That old coot decided it wasn't enough to play with you, he had to play with me too."
The man slaps a hand over Jon's eyes. "Breathe, like we practiced," he instructs firmly. Steam rises from where his palm meets Jon's eyes, but if it hurts he shows no indication. "In, 2, 3. Out, 2, 3."
Jon whimpers but heaves a breath, and the burst of red light dies down from between the man's fingers. His hand moves down to Jon's shoulder.
"I can't pretend to understand Clockwork's decisions," the man says, as tears begin to pool in Jon's eyes. "Frankly, I don't want to. I suspect they are hard decisions to make, sometimes."
"I don't get why you defend him," Jon says. "Dumbledore acting bastard."
"Language," the man says, lightly bopping him on the head. J'onn notes the boy actually winces, as if the blow hurts.
"I am upset with him, I hope you know that," the man continues. "But at the end of the day I'm also grateful. Because I got to meet you." He hooks an arm around Jon's shoulders, pulling him in. "And now you'll get to see your family again. And Sally, Arnold, and Damian!"
Jon sniffles, rubbing roughly at his face. He leans into the man's bicep. A trusted adult figure, then. One he's described his life to. A life, J'onn is sad to note, he appears to have lived for the past six years, as opposed to a sudden shift in appearance. Jon's next question all but confirm it: "Can I really go back? It's been so long. They'll be all grown up."
"Hey, of course you can," the man says, rubbing his shoulder. "I'm sure they've missed you so much. They'll be so happy to see you again."
Jon starts to smile. "I'm going home."
"You're going home!" The man laughs, shaking him.
"I can finally eat some decent barbecue again!"
"Hey!" the man protests, "The smoker blew up one time!"
Jon continues, beginning to get excited. "And Ma will make her jalapeño cornbread! I never could get it right, I can't wait for you to try it!"
J'onn notes the older man's smile fading, eyes growing sad.
"And Damian will definitely want to spar and oh, oh! With you on our side we can totally prank Batman! I bet Alfred will even help! And Mom gives the best hugs, Pops comes really close but Mom will be really excited to meet you, everyone will."
"Jon," The man says.
"I knew you'd be worried about it, but they'll want to meet you," Jon says, clocking his expression. "They'll be grateful. You, you helped me. You kept me safe and taught me how to be Superman. They'll love you, I promise."
"Jon, I can't go with you," the man says gently.
"I'm not saying you stay, but you can visit! I'm sure the Justice League can figure out a way to maintain a portal, they're super used to all that multiverse stuff. Once they have the coordinates, you can stop by whenever!"
"I can't go through the portal, Jon," the man says. "To other worlds, I'm a god. And gods can't interfere. The only reason I can continue to live here is because this is the world of my origin."
Jon gapes at him. "But--but,"
"You're going to see your Mom and Dad again," the man says. "And your brother, and grandparents."
"I can come here, then," Jon says desperately, pushing his way out of the man's arms. The man is already shaking his head. "I can!"
"You can't."
"Why, because Clockwork says so? He's a liar!"
"Because multiverse travel is never a good idea. If you got trapped here again--"
"I wouldn't,"
"You belong with your family,"
"You're my family!" Jon cries. The man freezes. "You, and Sam, and Jazz, and Tucker and Val and Ellie and Pops and Mads, you're all my family! I can't just leave you, I won't!"
"Oh kiddo," The man says, eyes wet. "I love you too. We all do."
"So I'll stay," Jon says decisively. "For all we know my world is a wasteland. Gramps wasn't exactly right in the head when I left. It's better to stay here."
J'onn notes a green vine unwinding from a nearby trellis. It slides down the eave towards the pair.
"You don't mean that," the man is saying.
"I'm sixteen. I can make my own decisions. I'm staying."
The man cups Jon's face. "Your parents did not have a choice in losing you. I'm willing to bet they're devastated. Because I'd be devastated, losing a kid as great as you."
"Maybe they're not even there," Jon says, but the words are half-hearted, and it clearly hurts him to say them.
"I know I seem like a pushover, but if I thought Clockwork was sending you back to anything less than your loving family, I'd destroy him first. And he knows that. They're going to be there, I promise."
"I don't want to go," Jon says. Behind him, the vine rises from the eave of its own will, poised like a cobra enchanted by a snark charmer.
"I know," the man says, eyes drifting to the vine. "I'm so sorry, Jon."
"For what?" Jon asks, as the vine attaches itself to the nape of his neck. His eyes roll back as he collapses into the man's arms. The man hugs him tighter than is strictly necessary.
J'onn expects the memory to now end, alongside Jon's consciousness. To his curiosity, it does not.
"For what it's worth," a young woman spits bitterly, vines supporting her weight as she slips over the side of the roof. "I still think this is horrible." Her eyes are red and miserable.
"Seriously, team punching Dumbledore in the face," A young black man says, appearing in the air supported by a woman almost identical in appearance to the man holding Jon, down to the suit colors. They land on the rooftop.
"Are you sure about this," the dark haired woman with powers over plants asks. "Because to be honest, Danny, I'm five seconds away from punching you in the face."
"Jazz won't speak to you for months," the girl, likely his sister, points out.
"Make it a year," the man says, crossing his arms.
The man, Danny, ignores them all. He cards a hand through Jon's hair. "He'll retain the experience, but not the memories?"
"Yes, he'll be a perfect little superhero, just as you taught him," the woman says, vines twisting agitatedly around her, wrapping around her thigh, wrists and neck almost punishingly.
"Sam," the man says. "He needs to go home. All of you know that."
"He doesn't have to forget us to do so!" the sister bursts, eyes flashing green.
"Remembering would be a torment," Danny says. "He'll know he was loved. That's enough."
"Danny," the plant woman says, sitting beside them both. She puts a gentle hand on his, both on Jon's back. "This is just a different torment."
"And if someone finds out?" Danny asks. He has been patient amidst their scorn, but now a tiny edge ekes into his voice. "A god's child, unprotected? Threatened? He would never stop looking for a way back, and being vocal about it could get him killed."
The others are silent.
"He'll be home. He'll be happy," Danny says. More powerful than a prayer. A directive. He raises his head past the child slumbering in his lap, past them all, face hardening, and says to J'onn: "And you will say nothing."
J'onn takes a step back, fear so thick he could choke on it flooding his very being. Thismanwillkillhim, thismanwillkillhim.
This man will reach through dimensions and kill him.
"Now, get the fuck out of my kid's head," Danny snarls. J'onn is pushed back with enough force he enters his own mind in a vicious whirl that leaves him physically on the floor, gasping.
"I'm sorry," he says as Superman rushes to lift him, and he's not sure who he's apologizing to. Green eyes will pierce his dreams. Vines will crush his throat in his nightmares, screaming silence, silence.
You will say nothing.
"I'm sorry," J'onn says, politely pushing Clark's hands away as he rises. He's already beginning to calm, because he understands. Those are consequences he will not face. He will do as directed. He looks at Jon Kent, bewildered but unharmed, clutching his mother's hand.
J'onn reaches down and dusts at his pants. "I'm sorry," he says evenly, ready to spin his tale. Perhaps the Kents will continue to seek their answers. Perhaps not. He will stay out of it either way. He has been warned.
You were loved by gods. And to keep you safe, they would quiet us all.
Part Two
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alessandra-14 · 3 months ago
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Quiet sister, concerned brothers
Dean and Sam Winchester x little sister!reader
Summery: Dean and Sam Winchester have a 15 year old half sister who often feels neglected and overlooked by her brothers. Her sadness and loneliness build up until she can no longer hide her feelings.
Trigger warning: way to much use of Y/N, emotional neglect
Word count: 1.5k words
A/N: I used a different perspective this time. Please please let me know which one you prefer so I know what to continue with! Thanks.
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The creaky old bunker was silent, a rare occurrence given the nature of it's inhabitants. Y/N sat on her bed, the flickering light from a nearby lamp casting long shadows on the walls. She hugged her knees tight to her chest, feeling the weight of another day spend in the background.
Sam and Dean, her older brothers, had been on a hunt all day. She texted them but unsurprisingly received no answer from any of them. They returned the next day around noon with stories about demons and near-death experiences, hardly acknowledging her presence as they recounted their tiring adventures.
Y/N was used to this. As long as she can remember, she had been the quiet, shy girl who stayed in the shadows while her brothers were always the center of attention.
She loved them dearly, of course she did. They have raised her, they gave her a family. Something she never new before them. But the constant feeling of being forgotten gnawed at her heart. She knew they didn't mean to emotionally neglect her, it was just how things were. Sam and Dean are hunters and she is just…. there
….
A week later they were on the road again, driving to a small town in Nebraska where strange disappearances had been reported. Y/N joined them this time. She felt as if she is going to suffocate if she stayed in that bunker for any longer.
She sat in the back of the Impala with her head resting against the cold window. The low rumble of the engine was almost comforting, a familiar sound in her otherwise tumultuous life.
Dean glanced at her in the rear-view mirror, a frown creasing his forehead. "You okay back there kid?"
Y/N forced a small smile. "Yeah, I'm fine."
Sam turned around in his seat, giving her a concerned look. "You sure? You've been pretty quiet lately. More than usual. You barely talk to us." "Yeah I'm fine, just tired", she lied, hoping they would drop the subject. She didn't want to burden them with her feelings. They had enough to worry about.
Dean just shrugged and turned up the music, and Sam went back to his research. Both of them just believing her lie for now. None of them had the energy to deal with it at the moment.
Y/N closed her eyes, trying to push away the sadness that threatened to overwhelm her.
The hunt went relatively well. Sure it could have gone way better but it's not the worst one they've had so far. Turns out the disappearances were caused by a little groupe of vampires. Fortunately for them it was easy to track them down to an abandoned warehouse. The killing part was a bit more tricky though.
Y/N helped out a lot this time. She was quite proud of herself for that. Thought that Sam and Dean would be impressed but did they even acknowledge her hard work? absolutely not.
"You did good kid but you could definitely improve your skills with the machete and you also need to work more on your stamina you are way to slow." Those are the first words she hear from Dean as they walk back to the car. Of course it hurts. She tried so hard to make them acknowledge her skills but apparently all they see is her weakness or simply nothing at all.
Sam doesn't confirm Dean's criticism but he also doesn't defend his sister in any way. The walk back to the car is just silent and tense. A feeling Y/N is simply sick of.
It doesn't get any better in the car so all she does is put her headphones in to listen to music to drown her loud bad thoughts and her brother's voices.
....
The next time they went on a hunt didn't go differently. Y/N was allowed to join again. She even tried to show of her great skills against the witch they had to fight but once again it went mostly unnoticed by the two brothers. The only thing that stuck with them was how slow she moved and how much she apparently hesitated when shooting the witch.
She kept quiet for the whole ride back to the bunker. What was she supposed to say anyway.
Back at the bunker Dean is the first one to break the silence between the siblings. "Hey kiddo remind me to teach you how to use a gun properly. You suck a little at that" He said as he went to grab a beer. His words were meant in a playful way but for Y/N it's enough to set her off completely.
"Can't you just stop with that?!" Sam and Dean both turn to look at her with a confused frown. "Stop with what?" Dean asks bewildered.
"With t-this! I just can't listen to you constantly telling me that I am not good enough. Every time I do something good you find something bad to say. Both of you just completely ignored the fact that I killed the witch on the hunt today all that was important to you was to tell me I suck at shooting! And when you don't criticize everything I do, you just don't talk to me. I simply get ignored. That's not fair!"
Y/N stopped once she ran out of breath but she was not anywhere near done letting everything out
"Y/N what-" Sam immediately gets interrupted by his sister. "No! I'm done. I'm done with hunting. I am done doing anything in my power to make you acknowledge my hard work for nothing and I am done with seeking your validation and attention at all times!"
None of the brothers get a chance to say anything because the second the girl is done she storms off to her room. Not that they knew what to say anyway.
The silence that follows is a tense one. Both brothers are at loss for words. Her speech was something none of them expected to hear. "Should we go check up on her? That was pretty intense"
But Sam shakes his head at Dean's suggestion. "No, we should let her cool off for a bit. I'll check up on her later"
....
Dean can't help but think about every interaction he had with his sister after every hunt and he unfortunately has to admit to himself that what Y/N said was true. The guilt is more than visible on his face it seems as if he is drowning in it. Sam isn't feeling any better. He is trying his best to no stand up and rush into his sisters bedroom and apologize for everything he and his brother said to her to make her feel as if she was not good enough.
He is holding that urge back fairly well but the moment he heard loud crying from her room he decides he is done with waiting and giving her space. He just needs to see if she is alright and fix this.
He walks up towards the door of your bedroom and softly knocks on it. "Hey...do you mind if we talk for a moment? I just want to make sure you're okay" Sam waits for a couple seconds which feels like minutes to him. But he receives no answer from the girl on the other side of the door. So he tries again but yet he gets no answer this time either.
Sam knows her silence is answer enough and turns around to leave. Not even two steps later he hears the door opening and his little sister's sad sniffles. He turns towards her and the mere sight of his sibling standing there with red rimmed eyes and a tired expression, was enough to break his heart into many pieces. Especially because he knows he is at fault.
"We can talk if you want" Her voice sounds raspy and her words come out quiet. A big indicator that she has been crying for a long time.
Sam simply nods and follows her into her room. Both sit down on the bed. Y/N looks towards her hands and keeps her gaze fixated on that.
"I wanted to apologize for making you feel as if you are not good enough. That was really not alright. You are great kid. You help us out so much. Doesn't matter if it's with research, or hunting or just helping around the bunker. Dean and I appreciate it. We appreciate you"
Y/N scoffs which slightly takes her older brother by surprise. "Well none of you know how to show that said appreciation"
Sam sighs since he knows she is right. "I know we don't but I really mean it when I say that we do care and do acknowledge your help and hard work. Even when we tell you about the thing you could improve. I also know how harsh Dean's words must have sounded to you and he feels bad. He really does."
The teenaged girl stays silent for a moment before finally nodding. "I forgive you. But I still want to take a little break from hunting. I'll help with research, sure but that's all. It's just too much right now" Sam agrees with you. "Sure that's fine. I understand, kid. And so will Dean"
Y/N looks up from her fidgeting fingers and turns her head towards her brother while wiping her tears. "Thank you Sam"
"Don't thank me, sweetheart. Please" Another silence follows after Sam's words. Yet this time it's not tense or heavy. It's comforting.
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adhdtsukasa · 5 months ago
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tsukasa tenma has ADHD!! except it's an actual analysis because 1. look at my url 2. i'm mentally unwell (and i started to love tsukasa mostly because i immediately recognized my ADHD traits in him). which is a thing i should probably leave for ADHD awareness month, HOWEVER!! it was my birthday yesterday and i wanted to spoil myself (i just kinda overlooked how much time writing it from scratch would take me, so i'm a bit late with it). and i reaaally don't wanna wait until november when i finally wrote it down because i'm so HYPED because i was preparing for it like what? two years? somewhere around it. and that's a LONG time.
please keep in mind that i'm no psychologist, psychiatrist nor a neurologist and while i do use some sources (cannot really confirm if they are true, though... because i forgot to write credits down... so i'm really sorry for that), most of this analysis was just based off on my personal experiences with the disorder (and i don't really have the full professional knowledge of what i struggle with i'm just a Boy). i mean, i am analyzing a character from a hatsune miku game. i think i'm already putting way too many effort than i should.
also the examples of tsukasa's behavior here are not all of the things, because i wrote down only the things i remember off from the top of my head. sorry, guys. my hyperactive ass is not sitting thru all the stories again just to get my crumbs, unfortunately.
anyways, with this a little bit unprofessional and messy introduction, let's get it started!
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1. THE MAIN PART OF THIS WHOLE THING, AKA HOW THE ADHD SYMPTOMS CORRESPOND TO TSUKASA'S BEHAVIOR
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i wanted to write it down in my own words, but i think the screen above has summed it up perfectly; there are some established symptoms of ADHD, but to be an ADHDer you don't have to experience them all. and this is going to explain why i'm gonna show a lot of these symptoms later, yet gonna connect only some of them with tsukasa. it's only these i have evidence for, and yet i think they're good enough to point at tsukasa and already say woah! an ADHDer!!
in short, there are three types of ADHD: hyperactive, inattentive (ADD) and combined. the combined one is the most common iirc, so that's also what i'm going to focus on today. especially since for a rep of the other types, i could say that shizuku's a rather great representation of ADD — but that's not the point of my ted talk today, so i'm not going to go into the detail about it. i'm sure some momojan or shizuku oshi would do better than me in this field, so i'm leaving it to the experts.
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these are the symptoms that i managed to gather — the first two screens being about the symptoms viewed in children, the last one being about the symptoms viewed in adults. "in which one of them tsukasa belongs to?" that's a good question, because i actually don't know. calling a high schooler a child doesn't sit quite right with me, yet a freshly turned 17/18-years-old is not exactly an adult, either (although most of the symptoms i'm analyzing come from these that are viewed in adults). and while i do think tsukasa has more of the symptoms viewed in adults, we're gonna analyse them all! because i'm putting my all into this.
FORGETFULNESS
i believe there's not much left to say, as this is the most obvious one and everyone already knows that. even though it's not touched that much anymore for some reason, tsukasa's forgetfulness is his very apparent trait. it varies in severity a lot of times: from him basically forgetting both his childhood and true feelings in the main story to him, for example, forgetting his own phone and lunch (in the same day!!) in hinamatsuri. even saki in the same event, while they were arguing, called him a "big, dumb forgetter" and assumed that he forgot what happened the day he brought her the hinamatsuri dolls to hospital. while forgetting basically half of your life is not exactly normal and can be a sign of something bigger, like dissociative amnesia, his forgetting of just the ordinary things and it happening a lot definitely still fits this trait.
EXCESSIVE TALKING/PHYSICAL MOVEMENT
while this is something that you'd rather connect to emu (and for a good reason), it's not like tsukasa is completely devoid of it either; he talks a lot. he moves a lot. it's not on emu's level of hyperactivity, but it's also not "a lot" that's taken as a social norm, based on how the people around him react. he's putting the 1 in oddball 1 2, after all.
in holy night or some side stories connected to it (it might be meiko's side story? but i'm not exactly sure) it was also said that tsukasa moves in his sleep a lot to this point that his parents have to leave his christmas presents under his door instead of next to his bed.
oh, and he also talks to himself a lot. even in class, which was confirmed in chapter 6 of dazzling (or maybe even earlier, it's just the one moment that i remember). (but i'll get to this moment later on)
he says his long monologues, he strikes his poses at every occasion — and while i don't think that's the first thing you think of when you have "excessive talking/movement" in mind, for me it sure does count as it.
LITTLE OR NO SENSE OF DANGER
this point can seem rather weird, because "isn't tsukasa always riddiculed at rui's weird inventions"? well, yeah, he is, that is not a thing to deny. but he also agrees to try out most of them, if not all, if it's for the sake of the show. he's aware of what can happen, but he also doesn't back away if it means that he'll be one step closer to achieving his dream of stardom.
does it count as "little sense of danger"? well, i'm actually not sure, for me it doesn't, but maybe for someone it does. i'd say that's a rather weak point, but i wanted to include the explanation for the counterpoint of it — that's why i even mentioned it in the first place. i don't have a lot to say about this tbh.
update: oh, actually no, wait, i just remembered. remember how tsukasa in phoenix decided to not eat anything for three days just to be able to resonate with rio, while also having to do straining exercise on top of that? you certainly cannot say that's a safe thing to do, but he still went along with that in order to get the role. it makes me come to a conclusion that tsukasa actually has a sense of danger, but sometimes chooses to willingly ignore it if only it makes him get closer to fulfilling his dream. i think it's coming close enough to the little/no sense of danger to be actually considered an ADHD trait.
DIFFICULTY KEEPING QUIET
while i'm not sure if what i'm going to talk about is a difficulty keeping quiet in a traditional sense of way, it definitely counts as it, somehow: tsukasa is loud. like, really loud. and that's another obvious fact both for us and for characters in-universe, especially when thinking of tsukasa shiho's first thought is that he's kinda noisy, which can be seen in the "a friend's brother" 1koma. (and probably a lot of other cases. free shiho.)
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tsukasa doesn't seem to realize that he's way louder than he should be and that him being loud is his first impression in most of the cases, though, or at least i don't remember any moment where it happens (and it's a possibility. then that's on me, i guess.). and yeah, i know what's the reason for it, obviously — he's supposed to be a comic relief character. because wansho's stories are mostly supposed to make you smile, as this is what wansho's aspiration is. however, as much as being intended to make the viewer laugh it wouldn't be, it still is a part of tsukasa's character, and a rather important one on top of that. his constant loudness is something that's definitely not considered normal by the society and could very well fit into this symptom.
and since i promised to elaborate on the mentioned before scene from dazzling chapter 6: when tsukasa talks to himself in class, it always ends up to be loud. and it already happened a few times.
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(tl by tsukasa's #3 fan on youtube because i don't have proseka on my phone wah)
if it's not a difficulty keeping quiet, then i don't know what is. bro can scream up to 120dB as measured by robonene for god's sake.
IRRITABILITY/QUICK TEMPER
again, this is something that was more apparent with early game tsukasa, maybe he just got medicated. idk man. but even if it happened three, almost four years ago, it still happened, i don't make the rules. back in the early game, tsukasa was really easily losing his temper and getting annoyed, mad even — i mean, that was the whole point of the main story argument: tsukasa's first response to nene accidentally messing up their show, which was not even her fault, was to shout at her. and while this was obviously very important thing to him and being upset at this is a rather understandable reaction, taking this as far as screaming at a poor girl for not being to face the audience because of her anxiety is not something a person who can control their anger would do.
it could be also easily seen by his reaction to emu and rui's antics back in the early game, which were often stained with irritation.
another example is his hinamatsuri argument with saki, where, despite loving her so much, he still got slightly mad at her for not liking the new dolls he bought her. he started to regret his harsh words and actions soon enough, obviously, but it doesn't change the fact that it was rather easy for him to get him across.
INABILITY TO DEAL WITH STRESS
if i'm not mistaken, tsukasa has once said something along the lines of "is it anxiety? there's no way a star like me would feel anxiety" — but i cannot recall for the love of my life in which story it appeared, so i don't want to take it as a face value when i don't have a solid proof for it.
other than this vague mention of "something that's in the story but i don't remember where", i'll admit, i don't really have anything backing me up for this tbf. i mean, i guess maybe tsukasa doing his best to appear strong as a child to not worry his parents could work? because the stress of saki being in the hospital definitely was also present here, although i just see this more as a coping mechanism for his situation than a reaction to stress, so that's not a solid evidence either.
so, yeah. take this one with a grain of salt, actually.
from the symptoms that weren't listed here, i remember reading something about people with ADHD enjoying to show off more, which is certainly what tsukasa does often — and while it actually applies to me too, it wasn't on an english site so i didn't screenshot it and i cannot really find it anywhere in english... so even though i treat it just like my whole argument for the inability to deal with stress, i thought it's just worth mentioning.
however, there is obviously one more thing...
HYPERFIXATION/SPECIAL INTEREST
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obviously, i'm talking about acting here: for tsukasa, acting aligns with all these criterias. it is his deep passion; it is something highly engaging for him; it is sometimes all-consuming for him; he tunes out the world around him when he thinks about how can he possibly improve his acting (see: the dazzling moment i showed earlier. yeah, i like to use it as a backing point a lot, as you can see.); and it is something that is his life-long interest.
is it his special interest or his hyperfixation, though? well, it's hard to tell...? because while according to screen two, spinterest revolves around a topic and hyperfixation revolves around an activity, so it would qualify what tsukasa feels towards acting as a hyperfixation, it's still kinda hard for me to call it so because of its length. yes, screen three clearly says that hyperfixation can last years, but they mostly revolve around shorter periods of time, after all (my longest hyperfixation was just a year long, for example). i think it's up to you to determine whether you'd call tsukasa's love for acting a hyperfixation or a special interest, but it's something from these two most certainly.
i'm also a big fan of the headcanon that tsukasa's other spinterest is kaito ww it's in no way a canon evidence (unfortunately!), but kaito's 1* side story, where tsukasa and emu are watching kaito's show and tsukasa is explaining to her why kaito's wearing a scarf somewhat implies that tsukasa knew a thing or two about kaito before the main story. and i'm all for it. colopale let tsukasa be a kaito fanboy pleaseee.
2. I REALLY LIKE ANALYZING SONGS, IF YOU CAN'T TELL
those who have already read a few of my things probably know what i love to do the most — analyzing songs!! so i wouldn't be myself if i just left tsukasa's commisions without analyzing them under the angle of neurodivergence, especially since the sole reason i became obsessed with the thought of ADHD tsukasa was that one sekahaji line (there's too much noise, so much noise and it keeps getting worse you will always be famous).
of course, remember that only the world hasn't even started yet should be taken as a canon value! producers are often given space to do whatever they want in the lyrics of the songs they are commissioned for, so they're not canonical in any way. i think it's still fun to look at their lyrics and ramble about them for a bit, though. i've already got too carried away anyways.
won't be posting photos of the lyrics since i'd hit the images limit, but you can check them yourself — all the translations i'm taking, as always, from the vocaloid lyrics wiki. (since filament fever has two tls on there, i want to clarify that i've only looked at and considered in my analysis the official english one, because it's, well, official.)
THE WORLD HASN'T EVEN STARTED YET
besides the mentioned earlier there's too much noise, so much noise and it keeps getting worse, which i think of as a representation of overstimulation (since i used to see people asking "oh but why tsukasa has something about there being too much noise in a song made out of his feelings when he's such a loud person himself". because he likes the noise he makes, not the overwhelming, overstimulating noise from the outside!!), sekahaji also has a rather good amount of quotes that could be read as something connected to neurodivergence (based on the fact that it's not supposed to be a song about this topic): the main theme of these are procrastination, which can be seen in let's cross the end of all of this, partying forever and the world hasn't even started yet line itself. the thought of the world not even starting implies that there's still a lot of time left to do something, while "partying forever" can refer to deciding to give up on doing the things you should do and going to drown in something that indulges only you and yourself for the rest of eternity. while procrastination is not counted as an official ADHD symptom, it's a trait that people with the disorder very often have (for reasons obvious).
other lines, which i couldn't entirely fit into a box of a certain symptom, are there's too much conflict, so much conflict and it keeps growing (a parallel line to the noise one, so it means something! right) and let's break the plans for a harmonious future. in my personal interpretation, they both can be viewed as your typical neurodivergent struggle in a neurotypical society — "too much conflict" refering to an internal struggle of not being completely normal, while the "harmonious future" that's going to get broken are just the social norms that are going to be broken because of an off-putting, neurodivergent behavior. something that some neurotypical people dooon't really like.
TONDEMO-WONDERZ
since i've just talked about breaking the social norms, "why?!" and "do it like this!!" aren't like you, huh? line from tondemo-wonderz is going to go first, because it revolves around the same topic. it's the same case: it's about (subconscious, not intentional) fighting what's accepted by the society by just being yourself — because you're neurodivergent, you're different.
from the other lines in tondemo-wonderz, i have only one and it's take an eraser to your memories?!, which is pretty much self explanatory. as always, a mention of forgetting something in tsukasa's commision. who would've thought.
88 SHOOTING STARS
another self explanatory line that i have written down as first: it's okay if you only remember a little part of it sometimes. another mention of tsukasa forgor™, and while it corresponds with what happened in dazzling, it's still a line mentioning forgetfulness — so it's worth mentioning.
aren't we just inevitably going around in circles? and it's okay if you take a rest for a little bit sometimes can be interpreted as another mention of procrastination and while it's not that apparent as it was with sekahaji, because going in circles can refer to something else and taking a rest sometimes is not a bad thing at all, i still wanted to mention them here. for the record.
you ought to slip and fall in panic in the final moment is connected to a symptom that i showed, yet didn't elaborate on it (because i didn't have anything to work with) — making careless mistakes. the same case, yet with another symptom goes with is this not enough yet again? is this not how it's supposed to be? couldn't we go even further than this?, which can be seen as a reflection of unability to listen to instructions. a bit of reaching with this one (like this whole part damn), but as i said earlier: for the record, i'm leaving it here. to show that i had some intense thoughts.
tbf, when i think about it now, maybe the mentioned earlier "why?!" and "do it like this!!" aren't like you [...] could very well fit this symptom too.
MR SHOWTIME
mr showtime you will always be famous, because this is a song that gave me a looot of things to work with. i was so flabbergasted when i read these lyrics for the first time. tsukasa tenma why are you like this. /aff
there are a lot of lines hinting being easily distracted, and these are basically the very first ones, too: you know what? i just can't make up my mind, it's so messed up that i can't put my thoughts together and a merry-go-round (my thought process) goes round and round are all about it. like you cannot deny it this time, if it's not about being unable to stay focused then i really don't know what is [insert the tsukasa don't look away stamp here because i love it and it's my biggest motivation to actually focus whenever i do something]. the more i mess around and waste time, the more i become hungry / and i can't handle it can be seen as about procrastination again, and even not "can be seen", it's literally being frustrated at yourself for wasting time, that's the sole outcome of a procrastination!! being bothered by feeling anxious, meanwhile, is resonating with the inability to deal with stress once again.
also jumping the gun. driving in a zigzag manner can actually connected with the little to no sense of danger. because, as far as i'm aware, driving in a zigzag manner is certainly not a safe activity. don't do it at home.
from the symptoms that i haven't yet mentioned to this point, am i taking a long way? am i making a fruitless effort? can be reflecting difficulty organizing tasks — since the poor planning of your activities can make you take a long way and can make you do a fruitless effort. then, where's the fun in taking shortcuts all the time? can be read along the lines of something coming close to extreme impatience and while a person that's extremely impatient would actually enjoy taking the shortcuts to get closer to their goal or destination, said impatience can be also connected with the desire for something interesting to happen. a task can make you impatient not because it's long, but because it's simply boring — avoiding shortcuts can make it less boring, even if it extends its duration. with this explanation, it makes the unexpectedness (unexpected program) is the best part of the show (my life) perfectly fit into this category, even though i wouldn't call this line a sign of impatience on its own.
i have some issues with i'm pathetic. i can't satisfy myself, because... at first i thought of connecting it with either mood swings or inability to deal with stress, however i'm not sure if that's really it. i'm pretty sure it connects to neurodivergence in some way, but i just can't put my finger on it, so... i'm just leaving it here for the record, once again.
oh, and there's also i got lost in the world (stage) and / the end credits rolled (the curtain fell), which also is pretty much summing up the experience of being neurodivergent in the neurotypical society. in the middle of trying to stay true to yourself and having to mask just to be accepted, it's easy to get lost — and once you do so, there's no going back. the curtain falls.
to end this part of the analysis, i'd show the lyrics from filament fever and sekai wo terasu tetrad here. i won't do this, however, and the reason for it is fairly simple — they don't give me much material to work with and i'm not really surprised, because mr showtime has succesfully sucked all of the neurodivergent coded lyrics into itself. there just won't be another song like mr showtime, i fear.
i can just say that in filament fever there is running away from the flow of time — which got me thinking of either procrastination and unability to stick to time-consuming tasks, with the former being more plausible as a potential interpretation... but that would be it.
3. NAKAYAMA IS A METAPHOR FOR NEURODIVERGENT MASKING AND IT'S THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER SAID BUT YOU HAVE TO HEAR ME OUT ON THIS
listen, i know how it sounds.
i'm not actually a fan of trying to fit every thing a character does into a box of a metaphor, symbol or allegory, i really am not. i think some things should just stay as simple as they are, but this thought has been bothering me ever since i've first seen spoilers of what's happening in a story where you're the star for the very first time. i'm in no way saying it has any canonical meaning, but i just thought it would be fun to include. because maaaybe someone sees my vision.
for those who haven't seen tsukasa4 yet or want to have a recap of what has happened in it: the whole event story revolves around tsukasa trying to grasp his role (as always). wxs got recommended to shunmei-za by shousuke and went there to practice their acting skills, immediately getting thrown onto the preparation for their next performance. tsukasa, however, is not a lead this time — he got the role of a supporting character and has got basically three lines to say on stage total. since tsukasa's used to playing lead roles, he obviously has issues with grasping the role — it's hard to use method acting in regards of a character that says three sentences total and nothing more. with help of bakuno reki, one of the actors in shunmei-za, and the rest of wxs, he manages to create a portrayal of nakayama that would make him "come to life" and "be a protagonist of his own story", something that would make it easier for him to get into role, however...
he gets a little bit too carried away with his acting during the actual performance.
and this is not something that would ruin the whole play, obviously, he's just a supporting character, the less invested audience would probably forgot about his impact on the story after five minutes of his last appearance — but he still made a slip-up. he still resonated with his role, but didn't achieve the utmost perfection. he still did well acting, after all, he managed to receive praise from the director in the end... but it's still a very apparent mistake that was made.
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(tl, once again, by the awesome tsukasa's #3 fan)
and that's where the nakayama masking metaphor theory (it's not even a theory but it sounds cooler this way) comes in.
nakayama is supposed to be just a man. from what we know about him, he's in his late twenties and works as an editor — and even though tsukasa makes up a whole backstory for him later on, he's still supposed to be ordinary. nothing special. he's coming nowhere near the other roles that tsukasa has played, he's not on the same level as miles, torpe and rio. and while you could possibly consider torpe and rio as rather ordinary, they still had something interesting to happen to them, the main reason why they were lead roles for their respective plays. in the tsukasa4 play, nakayama has nothing like that. he's literally just a guy, he's normal. and "normal" is a keyword here.
tsukasa did everything he could to fit into nakayama's role. he followed the script, he took the advice from a more talented and professional actor that is bakuno, he didn't do any mistakes during his preparations — and yet he still managed to mess up in the end. why?, besides of the fact that he just let himself become one with nakayama during the performance and it resulted in a supporting character outshining the lead?
if we take as a fact that tsukasa is, in fact, neurodivergent, it would make sense that he's having troubles with playing a normal person — because he's not exactly normal either. and this would very well work out as a metaphor of masking; even when you try your best, even when you mask yourself perfectly, you can still make slip-ups. you can still accidentally drop the act in middle of something that absolutely required it, or, similiar to what tsukasa did, can accidentally overdo it and end up perceived as even more weird than you'd be without masking. something something i got lost in the world and the end credits rolled. rings a bell?
and i'm not saying that tsukasa has a problem with masking, because he doesn't. he tries his best to pass as a normal member of society, but he also makes no effort in actively masking his weirdness (or else he wouldn't be a part of oddball one two). however, if you want to neurodivergent code your character, it would make sense to include a possibility of it in some way, right? especially since wxs stories' already had the theme of dealing with being perceived as weird (eg. rui's whole backstory, obviously). even if it's not affecting tsukasa directly, i think it would be cool to include something that indicates this issue's existence in his story and, in a way, his struggles.
however, as i said earlier, this is a very stupid thought and that's why i left it for the very end. i don't actually think that how tsukasa played nakayama was supposed to be a metaphor for masking, it's just a pure coincidence that it could be interpreted like that when you think about it too much.
aaand with this, we've finally come to an end!! (finally. i'm so exhausted.) i don't have anything more to say about this topic. maybe i'll retweet it with some more evidence in the future if we ever get more ADHDkasa content. for now, it would be all!
is tsukasa actually intentionally written as an ADHDer? Who Knows! there's a possibility that he is, but even if he's not, he's still one in my heart. regardless of the status of his possible neurodivergence, analyzing his behavior in this light was still very fun! and maybe i even converted someone into the ADHDkasa hell.
feel free to add something if you want to, and feel free to correct me if i got some things wrong! i still hope that even though of how messy this whole thing is written, i did tsukasa justice and didn't accidentally say too much nonsense lmao
...i hate ending analyses.
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skyeslittlecorner · 9 months ago
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Thoughts on Orias' event
I try to pretend that I have already cooled down and stopped howling with delight at the sight of the boys from Hades. Okay, I'm not very good at lying. They. are. gorgeous. So, ekhm. Some loose thoughts about what we know. No serious analysis this time, just my happy rambling.
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Spoilers under cut!
Devils can lie
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Earlier it was hinted between the lines, now we have official confirmation. Orias and Leviathan sure know how to lie.
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Here is a suggestion that Foras can do it too.
On the one hand, my and my biased heart are happy that he is special, on the other hand, I think I would rather not know what he went through to learn how to lie. On an unbiased note, it would be interesting if all the nobles of Hades could lie.
Nobles stick together
It's a little thing I noticed. In Avisos we are often mentioned that seeing more than one noble at a time is an unusual thing. Meanwhile in Hades…
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A large part of the event is from Foras' perspective, and how was I supposed to be calm?
We see that the boys often spend time together on patrols. Their relationship is also delightful. Foras doesn't like Glasyalabolas, and it's not mutual. Look.
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Glasyal you bully, I love you lmao
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Barbatos is gorgeous (even more so without clothes, but please, not on patrol).
Either way, it looks like they spend a lot of time together. They give so much siblings' energy.
AND THIS
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I died. I didn't know I needed Barbatos saying fuck, but now I need him for my life. So hot of him.
Orias age
We have information that Orias is older than Leviathan…
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…but this is information from biased, unconfirmed sources. Nobles only know rumors. I believe that Lucifer is the oldest. He's an angel, he makes sense. But when it comes to Orias, I would trust Leviathan more here.
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I want to draw attention to this one quote in particular:
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We know that devils get old. The stronger, the slower. But this suggests that Orias has been artificially aged.
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Especially since the angels also refer to him as a kid.
+ it is interesting that they were taken for the same experiment.
Don't know what to call it, just some sexy guys ahead
Enough with serious topics, time to get back to silly things!
We've seen Satan's anger spreads to his subordinates, we've also seen it with Mammon's greed, so it's no wonder Leviathan's jealousy has the same strength. However, Levi's second main thing, his punishment, doesn't seem to be going as well as he dreamed.
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They are terrible, I love them. No wonder the cavalry from Tartaros comes for us in Ch5, the guys from Gehenna would still shake hands with Hades. By the way, Hades and Genenna really seem to have the most similarities.
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Hot.
Also, their devotion is insanely sweet. Leviathan isn't even truly in danger and they've already summoned their coffins to protect him.
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But let's get to the cherry on the cake. You know what else is hot? We are in hell, it should be warm in here, but oh lord- I expected boiling lava, not a walking embodiment of perfection.
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I totally agree with Glasyalabolas and his fourth wall breaking. JUST LOOK.
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The smirk of this proud asshole. The fact that he is little known in heaven simply because he leaves no survivors to tell about him. And how much he smiles during this event. And how gently he treats Orias.
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This event shows his soft heart and that's why I'm here. I'm glad that we don't see this side of him right away, in the chapter, and he only shows true himself with someone he really knows and cares about. Even if he does it his own way. This event, his attacker comic and his selfie comic, how he behaves towards heaven farm survivor and his childhood friends.
Final thoughts
Let's end this here before I start fawning over him even more. Of course, there was much more here. Even out of chronicler's duty, I would like to mention:
While escaping, Leviathan made a pact with his monster
There are beads in the hearts of angels that, when eaten, keep Orias young
Orias himself, if he didn't eat angel hearts, would age into a mummy in a week
Barbatos is secretly Sailor Moon or Winx or other magical girlie
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This is how he dressed himself with his vines, prove me wrong.
Leviathan calls Glasyalabolas cute. Agree.
Orias calls Foras a child. It just sounds like a much older person addressing a younger colleague. And you know how much I agree
Astaroth mentioned (another point to the relationship between Hades and Gehenna)
Cherubs with their New Heaven are mentioned
That's all I remember for now. If you're curious about more things, @/thrones-of-buer collected here a lot of points from the event. I agree with a lot of them, and they're definitely interesting to check out. And here a whole report from the event from @/jazeswhbhaven so if you're hungry for more, head over there!
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Did I tell you about the time I accidentally tracked an injured pigeon from multiple city blocks away?
So just after the duck incident, I had this very fresh idea of exactly what rotting bird smells like. I thought I had finally gotten the smell out of the house, but smells to me linger like they get stuck in my sinuses or something...
Anyway so I think it's finally, like gone, gone... and I am out for a walk, and I catch a faint whiff of "rotting bird blood" and I'm like "no". No I refuse to believe this smell is still haunting me, or in my clothes or My hair or whatever. I got that smell out... But I am not just imagining it right? I'm not losing my mind?
I turned back and forth a couple times and the smell got stronger or weaker and I'm like "Okay, if I follow it, I can maybe confirm that smell isn't 'coming from inside the house' so to speak, yeah?" So I do.
Trying not to look like I am obviously sniffing the air and changing my mind about where to walk based on that and maybe pulling off looking more like a crow, or more like I am listening for something, I follow that fucking smell. I follow it long enough that I would be starting to think it's getting silly of me except the smell keeps getting stronger.
So finally I walk back and forth past some store fronts and determine that the smell is strongest right between the buildings. There's an alley there that's maybe 2 feet wide if you're generous about it. And I can hear pigeons cooing. So I stick myself into this little -too narrow to be an alley, you wouldn't want to walk down it really- and there's this pigeon with a fucked up wing. There's blood on the pavement near it, old and dried out. It's mate is there with it and bringing it food. It's tucked away out of they street and it has someone taking care of it, at least, even if that someone is other pigeons. It looks like a cat got at it's wing maybe, or it got clipped by a car. It doesn't want me coming near it.
So there's my answer. The 'rotting bird blood' smell I had just tracked through all the other smells downtown and past main street isn't some big massacred bird corpse stinking in the sun or 20 pigeons that were gunned down with pellets the way it smelled like... It's a living pigeon with an injured wing. The smell that was driving me nuts from blocks away because it was so strong to me and because I knew what the smell was enough to recognize it and be bothered I didn't know where it was coming from.
The fucking look I gave myself.
[Like good job buddy you found the smell! You tracked a little bird! Do you want a reward? Dumbass go back to your errands... Like before the store closes, and tell no one]
It felt so silly. It was silly. Probably, but I did learn something about myself and how human senses are that day.
The biggest obstacle to most people being able to pick up on really subtle smells is a combination of bothering to pay attention, being familiar enough with a smell to recognize it, and having an emotional reaction to it enough that it comes to your attention at all, instead of begin written off unconsciously as meaningless noise. Part of my good hearing and sense of smell might be thin nerve endings and sensitive nerves [connective tissue, hormones and autism], but part of it is also the autistic inability to turn off 'junk' sensory input, and just being an observant person prone to noticing patterns. Maybe I have a particularly strong memory for smells in particular for recognition type recall, even if my proactive/intentional recall is shit.
Real life human noses can just be like that too.
really I prommy.
And that's without conscious training! There are people who intentionally expose themselves to all the smells and "notes" they can to learn to identify things that way, like cigarette brands by scent, or wines, or whatever!
If you have a character who's a "nose" who has had training and lots of experiences or is a spy who was trained -knowing- they have super senses... I am not going to be impressed if they can only manage the kind of party tricks I can!
And that's why my biggest gripe about writers trying to write characters with a super-sense of smell is twofold:
What you have described isn't outside the range of things I can smell myself [okay I wouldn't say I am an unmutated human exactly like I do have genetic mutations, but you know what I mean]
You haven't given the character a -reason- to be familiar with what that smell even is! There is no inborn ledger of what smells are in the human psyche! They have to be familiar with the smell from a known source to know what it is! Stop forgetting that! Your character needs a reason to have noticed what these things smell like! They won't know what radiation damaged flesh smells like unless they've smelled that before! They won't know what liver cancer smells like unless they have smelled it before! The have to know what a person smells like and that the smell on something -was- from that person to begin with -for someone they haven't met- before they can notice their scent on the wind! Otherwise all they are getting is "a human who used hotel soap" or "something off".
It isn't hard to establish a background comparison they can make to what a smell must be. They spent time in hospitals or medical facilities or old age homes and talked to people enough to identify patterns in what smells are, or they worked at a gas station for a while and know the difference between different fuel smells, gasoline and diesel, leaded, unleaded, etc...
Maybe even they smell something and their brain instantly says "a helicopter was here" and they have to take a moment to be like "why the fuck do I know what a helicopter smells like [or what combo of smells registers as 'helicopter' like machine lubricant, the right fuel, the material of the seats, etc...], obviously there's something I am not remembering, because unconsciously I knew what that smell was when I shouldn't"
I have gotten entire memories back, as someone with amnesia and repressed memories -including of being in a car accident- because I unconsciously ordered what used to be my old coffee order and the smell and taste slammed me back 10 years deep into a memory... A lot of human memory is closely linked to smell and even the writers who -think- they are taking advantage of that aren't thinking big enough.
Yeah it's an experience that's hard to fake if it isn't how you live, but like... Try really testing out your own sense of smell sometime, consciously, [I mean if you smoke or keep exposing yourself to corona I can't help you]. Make a habit of picking out smells around you and taking note of what they are. Carry a notepad around and start to notice trends. Maybe ask a friend with a sensitive nose and sensory issues what their experiences are like.
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izzysillyhandsy · 1 year ago
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Ed-and-Izzy-related stuff that stood out for me in episodes 6 and 7:
Their quiet familiarity and mutual fondness
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The main thing I wanted from S2 regarding Ed and Izzy was at least a hint of a mutual, loving relationship between the two of them in the past. The way Izzy acted around Ed in S1 made no sense to me if there wasn't a strong, very old, tried and tested bond there. Equally, Ed's behaviour around Izzy, the familiar way he called him Iz, the exasperated way he reacted to Izzy's izzyness, showed (for me) a closeness of decades living together.
Izzy's "You know me better than anyone has ever known me, and I daresay the same is true for me about you" is the truth, in my opinion. It's about the little things, all the experiences they've had together, sharing a space, food, drink (how natural did it feel when Ed took Izzy's bottle?). Everyone who's had a close friend for decades knows how that feels.
Yes, there are aspects of Ed that Stede gets and Izzy doesn't. But I always had the feeling that Ed feels like home for Izzy and vice versa. This feeling was just very well hidden in S1 because of Izzy's confusion, jealousy and resentment.
(Of course, Izzy is also in love with Ed and Ed, as of S1, isn't. But the (platonic) love, friendship and fondness underlying everything is tangible.)
2. Together, they've got this "us against the world" vibe
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One of my favourite headcanons is young Ed and Iz mutinying together, or deciding to kill someone who made their lives hell (with Iz doing the actual killing, obviously). Both learning to fight and to survive in a cruel world together.
I'm not saying this was in any way confirmed or anything (flashback scene, I'm still waiting), but the scene above with Ed looking out at the sea, Izzy who can't take his eyes off him... they seem so attuned to each other. "Where you go, I'll follow."
I know this isn't the most coherent analysis, I'm struggling to describe the feeling I got when watching this scene.
It was like yes, they've fought their way up together. Even after everything that happened, put them next to each other on a ship and they just fit. If they wanted to, they could do anything.
(In a way, it's such a pity Ed doesn't want to be a pirate anymore, at least not a scary Blackbeardy one. Those two have a look going.)
3. Izzy and Ed both connect Izzy's love declaration to Ed shooting him
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"You know what he did when I told him I loved him?" "He shot me." "He shot you, yeah." "I know."
This is not 100% clear cut, but to me Izzy's delivery very strongly infers that Izzy didn't know Stede knew (and didn't tell him).
Which means that ED TOLD STEDE.
If that's the case, then
Izzy, at some point, realized that Ed shooting him wasn't (all) about him reminding Ed of Stede
Izzy has a better grasp on Ed's inner struggles than previously assumed
Izzy and Ed both see this declaration as important enough that Ed would permanently injure and eventually kill Izzy for it and Izzy and Stede are both like "yeah, figures"
Ed himself knows and admits that him shooting Izzy was about Izzy (still) loving him in that moment
I mean, I'm still shocked about that.
There were a lot of great metas about Ed's motivations after Ep2 came out, and some of them suggested exactly this: that Ed wanted to be an unloveable monster, that this was the only way he could deal with what he'd done, and Izzy's love was standing in the way of his grand self-destruction.
I wasn't prepared for Izzy, Stede and probably Ed being concious of that and kinda offhandedly acknowledging it in the show?
And even if it wasn't Ed but Izzy who told Stede (which I don't believe, but it's possible) - it's still crazy.
Izzy matter-of-factly telling Stede "Yeah, Ed shot me because I told him I loved him" and Stede being like "Yeah, of course, that's our Ed <3" is mind-blowing to me.
4. Izzy's love song
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The lyrics at this exact moment:
Il me l'a dit, l'a juré pour la vie. - He told me, he swore to me, for life.
He really means it. They're married. I rest my case.
5. The first kill's always a mindfuck
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So, I have this persistent obsession about Izzy being Ed's personal henchman, and Ed "outsourcing the big job" Teach resenting him for it.
In that respect, Ed's reaction to Stede's first kill was very interesting.
It probably wasn't like that in the beginning, but Ed seems to be a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to violence. Izzy is irrevocably tainted, but I think he wants to keep Stede "pure" (he didn't mind when Stede torched the ship, but that's the hypocrisy in action).
This is of course totally my headcanon, but I think Izzy's first kill was significant. I think Iz did it for Ed. And I think it was very difficult for him (either because Izzy-the-artsy-outsider was actually quite sensitive and nowhere near a bloodthirsty killer and/or because he cared about the person he killed). But Ed was so impressed, and so thankful, so he just carried on doing Ed's dirty work and it changed him forever :(
6. Ed's apology
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This whole scene.
Scowly face. Mopey twat. Oh, look, you're talking to me again.
The way they're saying it, Izzy's expressions, their body language - it feels so incredibly intimate. From this exchange alone I would bet they were lovers at some point.
Iz bringing the bottle as a cover and excuse and Ed understanding and playing along.
Ed's "Sorryboutyourleg" being the exact opposite of his public "apology".
I almost cried (like Iz) 😢
CONCLUSION: Why is there only one episode left I need more of this!!!
Also: IZZY LIVES <3
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m4rs-ex3 · 1 year ago
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people always make silly little lists of characters' crimes which i love but i'm gonna do smth a lillllll different
tdp character trauma log 🫶✨
callum
lost his father at a Baby age (the perfect age actually; young enough to be very emotional and impressionable but old enough to have to process it)
was thrown into a drastically different + high-key terrifying environment at Baby Age
lost his mother--his comfort person, his only connection to his og life (besides amaya), and also just an amazing individual--leaving him alone in said environment
was constantly belittled for being bad at the thing he never asked to be
lost his stepfather aka his only parent left and experienced an array of regret over what he didn't do while harrow was alive
almost watched his little brother down/freeze to death
was betrayed by his childhood friend
endured a severe dark magic sickness + traumatizing fever dream
almost choked to death
watched his whole world jump off of the highest point in the world
almost died plummeting off of the highest point in the world
was abandoned by Love of His Life for several depressed years
was literally fucking possessed
was taxed with the decision between becoming a vessel for the most dangerous individual in the world to destroy everything and hurt everyone he loves OR essentially ending his life (a conclusion he himself had to come to)
was under the impression that Love of His Life was dead (and he never got to tell her what he wanted to)
almost died pt 3
almost died pt 4-5
bound and brutally beaten + electrocuted (?)
watched the most important person in the world to him mercilessly tortured within an inch of her life
almost lost her AGAIN and had to destroy his entire moral compass in order to save her
tortured
almost died 6: choked pt 2
rayla
where do i begin
well first off grew up in the silvergrove and hey moonshadow elves i love ya but oh dear god -promotes "strength" and stoicism over discussing your feelings and admitting to your weaknesses -so bound (literally) by duty and oaths that faltering results in either being good as dead or dead as dead -ETC
equipped with a debilitating phobia of water--a fear most would see as bizarre and silly and exceptionally irrational--in a culture that as previously mentioned shuns fear to all hell
was left by her parents and (despite them having a perfectly good reason) never really healed
almost drowned which was not helped by the phobia
almost ravaged by an ancient vampire
an ASSASSIN who has to KILL PEOPLE but is a WHOLESOME SWEETHEART
haunted by her "constant" mistakes; her strengths get wholly overshadowed by her weaknesses
told by the father figure she revered that she is a stupid baby useless idiot (roughly)
was flatly told by Father Figure he expected to kill her (to which she's just like "fr prolly" good god girl you are fucked)
had to not only sit and listen to, but conform to horrid stereotypes she's been haunted by since she was a kid
nearly slowly lost a hand (and just straight up accepted like ik this isn't the point but i feel the need to address when she does some insanely broken shit)
saw a person wither to dust before her eyes i feel like we forget about this
almost died like pt 4 ish i literally cannot keep track what counts and whats too minor a near death experience and why do i have to ask these questions
watched the love of her life (shut up harry styles) suffocate in his sleep in her arms
almost died pt 5-8 ?
i once again don't even know where to begin this time with her ghosting. linking this post again but tldr she didn't do anything wrong, she believed she did, her society not only confirmed these suspicions but god they pinned her with so much more, and she was told that actually no and what the fuck is she supposed to do with that u just told her everything she knows is wrong and that she actually has worth and she is not keen on that mindset
almost died 9? i include this one bc soulfangs are terrifying
cooly came to the conclusion that she deserved to die for her parents mistakes (and fully intended on doing so)
almost died jumping off the highest point in the world
suffered from persistent nightmares
almost drowned (the phobia once again did not help)
was nearly killed by the dead former co-workers she feels responsible for killing
forced herself to leave behind Love of Her Life and if you don't think that was the hardest fucking thing in the world for her
spent two, miserable years alone, getting beaten down again and again (mentally and physically,) plagued by her vendetta, haunted by all she lost, never knowing comfort, never knowing love, and probably so much worse that we don't even know woohoo!
thought that, after years of painful wondering, the parents she desperately wanted back were killed right in front of her
almost died pt who even fucking knows
almost died
almost died
almost died
almost died
almost died
was absolutely fucking brutally tortured (within an inch of her life) 😚✌🌸✨✨
almost died horrendously (she rlly couldnt catch a break that day)
had to choose between pushing her trauma to the absolute limit or hating herself for not protecting her friends
almost died
ez
motherless
couldn't make friends (for a reason no one would believe)
that's why yo [daddy] dead. dead as hell. what shoes [he] got on what shoes [he] got on in [his] casket
almost drowned/froze
had the pressure of surviving as an orphan ANDD being a fucking king forced upon him at the same time
felt responsible for thousands of lives
was imprisoned
was almost motherfucking impaled by scary adult
all that? yea he was like 10
therefore
grew up weird like his brother and rayla
probably almost died a lot of times
imprisoned again & was threatened and bared witness to his brother + his closest friend tortured (+ almost murdered)
almost murdered by someone he once trusted
prolly a lot more idk i was gonna include soren n claudia but i am so fucking exhausted THESE KIDS ARE SO FUCKED OML 😭😭
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lovemybluebully · 2 months ago
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Masterlist
Thought maybe I oughta make one of these pinned posts so people can find my fics easier. 😁 They are all tickle fics btw so if you don't like that kind of thing then this is not the blog for you. lol They are of the SFW variety though.
Currently obsessed with Deadpool and Wolverine.
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Just gonna list my new DP/W fics here below the cut and then put a link to the page with all my other fics. 😎
Listing newest fics at the top here.
All Hail Queen Bea! - After a comment from Logan induces some ticklish consequences, Wade finally gets the confirmation about his friend that he suspected all along. Deadpool and Wolverine-verse M/M
Wakey Wakey - Wade gets Logan out of bed in the best way possible. 🤭 Deadpool and Wolverine-verse M/M
It's For Science - Wade gets it into his head that maybe not all humans have the same number of rib bones. His logic being that since Logan has a shorter body then he may be an exception. Unfortunately for Logan this is far too ticklish of an experiment for him to bear. A small bit of ticklish!deadpool at the end too. Deadpool and Wolverine-verse M/M
Over My Dead Body - Logan just wants to watch the game, but Wade can’t help but mess with him and discovers he’s ticklish in the process. Logan is pissed at first, but eventually comes to terms with the benefits and has a life altering epiphany. Deadpool and Wolverine-verse M/M
A Small Lapse of Judgement - Logan is adjusting to his new residence in Wade’s apartment. And that includes enduring his countless tickle attacks against him. But then Wolvie decides it’s time for a little payback. Deadpool and Wolverine-verse M/M
How To Pet a Wolverine - Wade makes an irresistible discovery about Logan during their brawl inside the van. Deadpool and Wolverine-verse M/M
Here's the drawing I did of Wade tickling Logan. 🤭 I have other tickle art I've posted on here if you look hard enough. lol
And the other one I did here of Wade giving Logan ticklish raspberries to his tummy. Heheh, he likes it. 😊
And below is the link to the rest of my fics. All SFW. Mind you some of them are around 10 years old and may not be written that great so proceed at your own risk. lol I mainly wrote for the cartoon/comic versions of X-men (99% being Wolverine lol I love him 🥰), Venom, Punisher and The Wolf Among Us. Got one random Overwatch story in there too.
Tickle Fics Here! All fluffy, SFW stuff.
I have a Deviantart account as well but warning that there is some NSFW stuff I've posted on there over the years. I am an adult woman and do find tickling to be a kink in very specific situations. 90% I don't though, and I just enjoy tickling as a cute, fun, bonding activity between friends and lovers. I'm not gonna link my DA here. If you're interested, I'm sure you'll be able to find it.
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shegeekery · 9 months ago
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Reparenting Loki
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I want to talk about a dynamic in the Loki/Mobius relationship (in the Loki TV-series) that I've seen touched on but not really discussed in depth.
Note to Lokius-lovers: nothing I say here in any way precludes a healthy romantic relationship. They're both consenting adults, after all, and this wasn't a formal therapist-client relationship.
There's a technique in therapy called "reparenting". The idea is that trauma and behaviors caused by bad parenting can be addressed to some extent if the therapist assumes the role of a "good parent".
I think we can all agree that the "All-Father" was crap as an actual father. Odin knew that Loki took after him even more than Thor did, but many of those shared traits were things that he tried to hide from everyone, while Thor better represented the image he wanted to project. The result was a cruel favoritism, which was picked up by Thor and the rest of the Asgardians. Frigga's love and support wasn't enough to counteract that cruelty, particularly in a strongly patriarchal society like Asgard.
Side note (because I'm that kind of geek): there were so many similarities between Odin and Loki (Odin's friend and blood-brother rather than his son) in the old Norse myths that some scholars have suggested that Loki was at one point simply an aspect of Odin. There's also evidence that the stories as they came down to us were manipulated by the Christians who committed them to writing to shoehorn Loki into something more like the Christian Devil.
Anyway, getting back to our guys... Within the context of the TVA, Mobius represented an authority figure to Loki, who had a long history of rebelling against (or betraying) authority for obvious reasons.
I think the first turning point in the relationship for Loki was:
Loki: I am smart!
Mobius: I know. Loki is rarely left speechless, but his only response to Mobius's simple affirmation was a very un-Loki-like "Okay..." He didn't know how to respond because he wasn't used to that kind of thing, particularly from someone who had power over him. It happened again with:
Loki: A villain.
Mobius: That's not how I see it.
The dynamic between these two people throughout Season 1 was like that. Mobius's genuine love (whether you read it as romantic, platonic, fatherly, brotherly, or a mix of any or all of these) for and non-judgmental acceptance of Loki was apparent from the start, but of course Loki's experiences during his very long lifetime made it nearly impossible for him to trust that until Mobius's actions convinced him that it was real. Learning to trust Mobius also allowed Loki to see himself in a new light.
For his part, Mobius consistently modeled what a good father would have been: loving and accepting, yes, but still able to apply "tough love" when that was warranted. Mobius didn't put Loki into the bad-memory loop to punish him because he was angry (though he was angry, or at least a bit hurt and disappointed). He was just trying to force Loki to acknowledge a truth about himself so that they could move forward — and it worked!
Mobius's instincts and experience as an actual father to two boys, one reasonably well-behaved and the other a mischievous troublemaker, served him well in this, even if he didn't consciously remember his life on the timeline.
Mobius all but confirmed this when he said:
Mobius:  I see a scared little boy, shivering in the cold... 
It's also significant that when Loki brought this up later, he called it "patronizing", which we usually use to mean "condescending", but can also mean "supporting" and has its root in the Latin word "pater" (father).
I see the hug in episode 1-5 as a sign that the reparenting had taken hold, and that Loki, while not completely healed (it would take a lot more than that!), was at least in a place where he could trust someone, accept love/friendship, and think beyond his own wants and needs.
By Season 2, the relationship between the two men was evolving into one of equals, but even then Loki still occasionally looked to Mobius for guidance. Mobius's approval had become important to him. When Loki witnessed the firm but compassionate way in which Don dealt with two boys who were so like himself and Thor (despite being a stressed-out single dad rather than a god-king with tremendous resources at his disposal), he had to have seen that this was at the core of who Mobius was. Moreover, Loki — and any viewers who had similarly survived a traumatic childhood full of emotional abuse and neglect — probably guessed that Don himself was a survivor who was determined to see to it that his boys would never have to deal with that. If that was the case, then Mobius didn't just see his own son in Loki. He saw himself and couldn't help but empathize.
Don wasn't perfect. His frustration with his younger son was very evident, but Loki, observing, could see the love that lay under it. He may even have thought of times when Odin was driven to anger by Loki's actions and realized that the anger didn't necessarily mean that Odin didn't really love him. Learning to forgive what can be forgiven is another aspect of recovering from childhood trauma.
It's worth remembering that Mobius knew Loki in much the same way we do. We got to see the things that Loki never let anybody see: the fear, the vulnerability, the pain, the longing, and the sadness. (Doesn't hurt that TH can turn a simple reaction shot into a freakin' soliloquy!) The difference is that, while we only get to see the highlights (and lowlights) of Loki's life, Mobius had access to all of it and he had centuries to study it.
Mobius literally knew Loki better than anyone else in (or out) of the multiverse. How could he not love him? And for Loki, knowing that somebody who knew him that well genuinely cared so much for him (same with Sylvie, who understood him in ways that only another Loki could and vice-versa) had to have shaken him to his core and made him rethink a lot of things. The fact that it was Mobius to whom Loki turned in episode 2.6 when he thought he might have to kill Sylvie shows how much he still looked up to Mobius in many ways.
This was a show about redemption, yes, but also about healing from childhood trauma. They did an amazing job with it.
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likeadevils · 2 years ago
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Speak Now Timeline
This is a very long post that puts all the songs on Speak Now in order of Taylor creating them. I’ve also added a few other songs she wrote while writing Speak Now and quotes from Taylor and her collaborators talking about her process.
If you don't want to read all that, check out this playlist of the album in order or this playlist of her entire discography.
Due to a surprising amount of digital decay and her life not being highly documented yet, exact dates are bit harder to come by then they are with following albums, but you can still find a few! I’ve added this color coded scale of how sure I am of the date: 
Confirmed: There is some type of official source for the date
Inferring: Nobody has officially said “This is when we wrote it,” but everything points to that date
Speculation: This date is based off pure vibes and guesswork and is highly likely to change.
Unknown: All that is known is the year (from the US Copyright Offices)
More notes: I will probably be editing it as information about vault songs and new details about old songs get come out, so it probably won’t be finished until July, so check back in with this post and/or follow me if you want updates. Most tweet dates come from crawling through the wayback machine, but if you want further sourcing, feel free me an ask/dm.
Without further ado...
Sparks Fly: Late 2006 (Inferring)
Taylor opened up for Jake Owen on October 31, 2006 In Portland, Oregon (the secret message for the song), and wrote Sparks Fly about the experience shortly after. I’ve seen a few second hand sources say she wrote it on the airplane ride back to Nashville later that same night, but I can’t find Taylor herself saying that, so it might just be an old fandom legend, or the source has been lost to digital decay, or I just haven’t looked hard enough. She first performs the song in May 29, 2007.
Haunted: 2009 (Unknown)
Taylor: "Haunted" is about the moment that you realize the person you're in love with is drifting and fading fast. And you don't know what to do, but in that period of time, in that phase of love, where it's fading out, time moves so slowly. Everything hinges on what that last text message said, and you're realizing that he's kind of falling out of love. That's a really heartbreaking and tragic thing to go through, because the whole time you're trying to tell yourself it's not happening. I went through this, and I ended up waking up in the middle of the night and writing this song about it.
February 17, 2009: Tweets "It's 3:58 am in London.. And I accidentally fell asleep at 6:30 pm, so now I'm wide awake and have no idea what to do. Write a song?"
It’s possible that this was what Taylor was referring to when she said she “ended up waking up in the middle of the night and writing [Haunted]”, but it’s also very possible that Taylor didn’t write a song on February 17, and waking up in the middle of the night and writing a song is not a rare occurrence in Taylor’s life, so one tweet doesn’t really prove anything.
March 13, 2009: Tweets "A day off in Sydney. Drove two hours out of the city and spent the day on the beach. Wrote a chorus you'll hear on the next record. :)"
Pure speculation, but I think she was working on Mr. Perfectly Fine. It was created in 2009, and in my opinion, of the possible songs it has the most notable chorus.
March 19, 2009: Posts on Myspace “I’m wiped out. I’ve been in the studio all day ( I know, I know.. We JUST put out a new album. I think I have a problem, I cannot stop writing songs.) It’s so much fun knowing that you can take your time, because you have like a year and a half to make something you’re really proud of. I love recording a few songs, waiting a few months, recording a few more.. Instead of devoting a few weeks to “record the album” and then it’s just done. I like dragging it out, that way you can be meticulous about every detail. Daydream about different ways to put the songs together, and then take them apart. I’m pretty obsessed with the whole process. So needless to say, it was good to be back in the studio with my redheaded producer who I missed terribly.”
If This Was A Movie: April 2009 (Inferring)
Taylor has literally never talked about this song, but April would be six months after and Joe Jonas broke up in late September/early October 2008.
April 24, 2009: Taylor plays in Jonesboro, Arkansas, and possibly writes a song: "I'd get my best ideas at 3:00 AM in Arkansas, and didn't have a co-writer around and I'd just finish it. And that would happen again in New York [likely Enchanted], that would happen again in Boston [likely Long Live], that would happen again in Nashville." (x)
May 23, 2009: Taylor records Half Of My Heart with John Mayer
On March 1, 2009: John Mayer tweeted: “Waking up to this song idea that won’t leave my head. 3 days straight now. That means it’s good enough to finish. It’s called Half of My Heart and I want to sing it with Taylor Swift. She would make a killer Stevie Nicks in contrast to my Tom Petty of a song.” On May 23, John Mayer tweeted "I couldn't get Taylor Swift on my record so I found the world's greatest impersonator, Laura Jacksheimer" with a picture of Taylor.
Superman: Spring 2009 (Speculation)
This could have been written any time in 2009, but due to it's general sound and the following quote, I’d guess it was written sometime in spring, when her and John Mayer first started working together. Taylor: “This was a guy that I was sort of enamored with, as usual. This song got its title by something that I just kinda said randomly in conversation. He walked out of the room, I looked over at one of my friends and said, ‘Man, It’s just like watching Superman fly away.’”
May 29, 2009: Posts on Myspace “Tomorrow, after the performance on the Today show, I’ll fly back to Nashville and record a lot of new songs I’ve written in the last few weeks. I’m really excited about that.” (She also posts "Tonight I went shopping at Top Shop in New York with the band. I got purple shoes. I’m really excited about the purple shoes, and I just needed to tell someone. I got purple shoes. Ok. That’s done." Which. If I had a nickel for everytime Taylor teased her new album by posting about shoe colors I'd have two nickels, which isnt a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.)
June 4, 2009: Posts on Facebook "In the studio. I don't know whose computer I'm using. Pssh.. Such a rebel right now.."
June 9, 2009: Tweets (about recording Thug Story) "If I said I was in the studio with T-Pain, would you believe me?"
Better Than Revenge and Let’s Go (Battle): June 2009 (Inferring)
These were probably written sometime between June 12, when the Jonas Brothers released “Much Better”, and July 1, when Taylor posted on Myspace: “What else is new.. Recording a bunch of new songs. Lots of new things to write about…..”
Last Kiss: 2009 (Unknown)
Taylor: "The song "Last Kiss" is sort of like a letter to somebody. You say all of these desperate, hopeless feelings that you have after a breakup. Going through a breakup you feel all of these different things. You feel anger, and you feel confusion, and frustration. Then there is the absolute sadness. The sadness of losing this person, losing all the memories, and the hopes you had for the future. There are times when you have this moment of truth where you just admit to yourself that you miss all these things. When I was in one of those moments I wrote this song."
July 22, 2009: Tweets "Hanging with my producer Nathan, discussing the next adventure" and then in a separate tweet "...album #3."
August 25, 2009: An interview with Nick Buda, Taylor's go-to drummer, is posted and he says: "Sitting here in Blackbird right now in the process of starting Taylor Swift's new record I guess. We've been here the last couple days and we're here today again." Throughout the interview, you can hear If This Was A Movie playing in the background. (Thank you to @taylor-on-your-dash for finding the interview!)
Never Grow Up: Fall 2009 (Speculation)
Lover Diary Nathan Chapman: "The song 'Never Grow Up' is just she singing and I on acoustic guitar. We recorded ourselves live. That song probably happened in two hours." This could’ve been written at any time in 2009, but I put it here because she bought her Nashville apartment sometime before October.
September 8, 2009: Tweeted "Last night in nash before heading out tomorrow for 4 shows, then VMA's. But right now I can't put the guitar down."
September 13, 2009: VMAs Incident
Enchanted: September 15, 2009 (Confirmed)
On September 15, Taylor attended an Owl City Concert in New York Taylor: "It was about this guy that I met in New York City, and I had talked to him on email or something before, but I had never met him. And meeting him, it was this overwhelming feeling of: I really hope that you're not in love with somebody. And the whole entire way home, I remember the glittery New York City buildings passing by, and then just sitting there thinking, am I ever going to talk to this person again? And that pining away for a romance that may never even happen, but all you have is this hope that it could, and the fear that it never will. I started writing that in the hotel room when I got back. Because it just was this positive, wistful feeling of: I hope you understand just how much I loved meeting you. I hope that you know that meeting you was not something that I took lightly, or just in passing. And I think my favorite part of that song is the part where, in the bridge, it goes to sort of a stream of consciousness of ‘Please don't be in love with someone else/Please don't have somebody waiting on you.' Because at that moment, that's exactly what my thoughts were. And it feels good to write exactly what your thoughts were in a certain moment.”
September 26, 2009: Taylor plays in Little Rock, Arkansas, and possibly writes a song: "I'd get my best ideas at 3:00 AM in Arkansas, and didn't have a co-writer around and I'd just finish it. And that would happen again in New York [Enchanted & Back To December], that would happen again in Boston [Long Live], that would happen again in Nashville." (x)
October 17, 2009: Tweets "Travis: you look so out of it. Me: I'm writing a song in my head. Travis: oh, I apologize. I didn't realize you were working."
November 19, 2009: Bob Lefsitz (the guy from Mean) publishes his impromptu interview with Taylor:
Taylor laughed.  Said she could handle being criticized for having a bad voice, for missing notes. But she couldn’t live with being criticized for being inauthentic. Those songs are written in real time. About real people. Her cowriters edit more than contribute. Her next album she’s not planning to write with anyone. Not now, anyway.
November 30, 2009: Tweets "If I had a dime for every time my producer and I blurt out the same thing at the same time, followed by an awkward, uncoordinated high five..."
Ours: December 6, 2009 (Inferring)
Myspace Post on December 6: “I just got back to Nashville this morning after being in LA all week. Today I was out and about and in the studio all day” Taylor: "I wrote this when I was about to turn 20. I was in a relationship I knew people wouldn't approve of, and it was just a matter of time before everyone found out. When you're first getting to know someone, it's a fragile time, and then you add newspapers and magazine covers and it can get kind of rough. I wanted to have this song to play for him when it got difficult. Singing it for him was one of the sweetest moments I can remember."
December 22, 2009: Tweets "I was writing a song and my pen fell into the piano. Still trying to figure out if I should do anything about this."
January 2010: Starts polishing up the demos made in 2009 into fully produced tracks
Billboard: "Swift and Chapman had begun recording new songs almost as soon as "Fearless" was released. The two cut demos in his basement studio and would only take those songs to larger facilities once they felt they had an emotional foundation in the basic tracks. Still, it wasn’t until early 2010 when the album truly began to coalesce." Nathan Chapman: "We stripped it down and made the demos first. Taylor came to my studio and I played all the instruments on the demos, and because I have a good vocal booth, her demo vocals ended up being the vocals you hear on the record. After finishing the demos, we went out to different studios, and tried different combinations of engineers and musicians to replace some of the elements of my demos, mostly the programmed drums, and to do additional overdubs. [...] A pop artist would probably release what we'd done after five hours, but country artists don't want to hear programmed drums, they don't want to hear fake stuff. So once we had recorded the demos, we would book whatever studio we wanted for each song, to replace the drums, in many cases the bass, and to add whatever overdubs we envisioned, like fiddle, keyboards, percussion and strings. After we got the demos right, we opened it up and allowed ourselves to spend money and cut a big record." Taylor tweets on January 11: "Studio-ness with all the same boys who played on Fearless" and on January 13: "More recording. So excited. So excited. So excited. See, I said that three times. Once for every album we've made in this studio."
January 13, 2010: Posts on Myspace “Thank you January. I have had this month off. I have walked on snow-covered grass and discovered new coffee shops and laughed hysterically with friends about things that probably weren’t technically funny. I’ve written songs on napkins and sat at a giant table with my whole family on my mother’s birthday, all of us in one place for the first time in too long. I’ve gotten to take what has happened to me and process it to my full capability, and celebrate it the way it deserved to be celebrated. I’ve made new music. I’ve gone over the memories and jumped up and down with my producer and floated around with nothing on my schedule other than just appreciating what my life has somehow turned into. [...] Getting back in the studio with the same guys I trust and know and love.. (right, the pointing one: my producer Nathan Chapman) (Left, the waving one: Bass extraorinaire, Tim Marks. Clearly marked on his road case.) [...] Nick Buddha is in charge of the drums.”
February 13, 2010: Writes in her diary "I’ve been obsessing over the new album. I always do that until it’s just right. I don’t know if I have the formula just right for this one yet. I know there are great songs. I just need to figure out the strands that bond them together into a great album. And I will obsess until it’s there. This album, any album, is the next 2 years of my life. It has to be more than amazing. It has to be great enough to keep my attention for 2 years."
February 22, 2010: Posts on Myspace "I’ve been writing lots of songs"
Mine: March 10-12 2010 (Inferring)
Taylor (above interview, at 5:17): "I wrote Mine somewhere on the road, I think in Texas, actually." Nathan Chapman: "The demo for 'Mine' apparently took less than five hours to record, and sounded, according to Chapman, "almost identical to the record. After that we worked on the track for another four months, off and on, and spent $30,000 to make sure it sounded perfect in the real world."" Taylor: "This song is the first single because it has this…there was this moment between Nathan and I, my producer, when I brought this song in and when we made this demo in one day in his basement and we just kinda looked at each other and we were like, "This is it. This is the one. All of the times that I've had "The Moment" with songs of "This is the one," it's been a good call, so I'm hoping for the best on this one. Wish me luck." Scott Borchetta: "Mine" was a turning point in the album’s development. Swift and Chapman had begun recording new songs almost as soon as "Fearless" was released. The two cut demos in his basement studio and would only take those songs to larger facilities once they felt they had an emotional foundation in the basic tracks. Still, it wasn’t until early 2010 when the album truly began to coalesce. Swift presented "Mine" to Borchetta in his office [...] "We probably played that song four or five times," Borchetta recalls. "I’m jumping around playing air guitar, she’s singing the song back to me, and it was just one of those crazy, fun, Taylor teen-age moments."
March 13, 2010: Taylor records Mine, brings it to Scott Borchetta, and says she’s done with TS3
Scott Borchetta: "I said, ‘Keep going,’ [...] She kind of looked at me like, ‘You’re challenging me.’ And I said, ‘Yeah. You’ve found true north here. Keep going.’ " Taylor: “During Speak Now, when I went to (label head) Scott Borchetta and said, 'The album’s finished,’ he said, 'No, it’s not – you need to keep writing.’” (Right after playing in Texas, Taylor leaves for a vacation in the Bahamas, meaning Taylor likely had about a day in Nashville between the two trips).
Innocent: Late March 2010 (Inferring)
Billboard: “It was some time in the period after that challenge — between February and June — that Swift wrote “Innocent,” her response to the Kanye West incident.​​” Taylor: “Some songs take 30 minutes to write, and some take six months, which was the case with “Innocent.” When things affect me intensely and really hit me hard, it can take a while to figure out what I think about it and what to say about it.” (March would be just over 6 months since the VMAs).
March 24, 2010: Taylor goes lunch with Taylor Lautner and both of their publicists, inspiring Back To December.
Taylor: Swift says she based the song on a conversation she had with the guy about whom she's singing. "It's not loosely based," she says. "It's almost word-for-word. It is a song and a conversation that needed to happen, because I don't want to hurt people. If you unintentionally do so, you've got to make that better."
Speak Now: Early April, 2010 (Inferring)
On April 3, Taylor attended the wedding of Josh Farro as Hayley Williams (who is Josh's ex) plus one. That day she also tweeted: ""Nathan you smell really good! Is that a new cologne?" "Thanks! Actually it's a two in one shampoo and soap. From Dial." My producer rules." implying she was in the studio. The conversation below could have happened any day after the VMA awards in September, when Hayley first reached out to Taylor, but I think Taylor probably wrote the song fairly close to naming the album after it. Taylor: "This song was inspired by one of my friends who was telling me about her childhood sweetheart, crush guy. They were kind of together in high school and went their separate ways, and it was kind of understood that they were gonna get back together. Then, she one day comes in and tells me he's getting married. He had met this girl who was just this mean person who made him completely stop talking to all of his friends, cut off his family, had him like so completely isolated. And I just, kind of randomly, was like, "So, you gonna speak now?" She was like, "What do you mean?" And I was like "Oh, you know, like storm the church, speak now or forever hold your peace? I'll go with you. I'll play guitar. It would be great." She was just kind of laughing, and later on I just was wrapping my mind around that idea of how tragic it would be if someone you loved was marrying somebody else. Later I had a dream about one of my ex-boyfriends getting married, and it just all came together that I needed to write this song about interrupting a wedding. For me, I like to think of it as good versus evil, and this girl is so completely painted as the evil one. So this is "Speak Now.""
April 13, 2010: Names TS3 Speak Now
Lover Diaries: "So I’ve been obsessing over the new record to the point where it’s all I can focus on. I’m majorly stressed and borderline losing it, with all these lists and chronic dissatisfaction. Perfectionist-ness. I keep growing tired of songs because I know I’ve raised the bar and I can beat half the songs. Scott and I had lunch the other day. We were talking about the record and I had this epiphany. I didn’t talk in interviews about how I felt about much of what has happened in the last 2 years. I’ve been silent about so much that I’m saying on this album. It’s time to Speak Now. Scott freaked out. He loved it. We have a title, ladies and gentlemen!" Scott Borchetta: ""At one point, the record was not called ‘Speak Now.’ It was called ‘Enchanted,’ [...] We were at lunch, and she had played me a bunch of the new songs. I looked at her and I’m like, ‘Taylor, this record isn’t about fairy tales and high school anymore. That’s not where you’re at. I don’t think the record should be called "Enchanted."’” Swift excused herself from the table at that point. By the time she came back, she had the "Speak Now" title"
Dear John: Spring 2010 (Speculation)
This was likely written sometime after February 2010 (Taylor implies she's single in her vlog and her diary). Beyond that, it could have been anytime between February and June 2010.
Brief Interruption: The next two songs (Back to December and Mean) are going to use quotes from this interview that @1989worldtour found. If you've already listened to the interview attached to the Mine section, then it's the same interview
Back To December: Early May, 2010 (Inferring)
Taylor (above interview, at 5:12): "Back to December was written in New York City. Taylor was in New York city from May 3-5, and May 12-15 2010. she was not photographed in New York any other time in early 2010, and given her busy touring schedule, I doubt she was in New York at another time. USA TODAY: “Swift says she based the song on a conversation she had with the guy about whom she's singing. "It's not loosely based," she says. "It's almost word-for-word. It is a song and a conversation that needed to happen, because I don't want to hurt people. If you unintentionally do so, you've got to make that better."”
Mean: May 29, 2010 (Speculation)
Taylor (above interview, about 6 minutes in): "I started this song called Mean on my, like sitting on my kitchen counter, just playing it, and then, you know, took a plane and flew to the venue where we were gonna play that night and finished it in the dressing room." Now, this may be a too literal interpretation of "took a plane and flew to the venue where we were gonna play that night," but if we want to theorize: the only tour date (that Taylor could've conceivably written Mean during) without another show right before or after it was in Baton Rogue on May 29, 2010.
Long Live: June 2010 (Confirmed)
Lover Diary She likely wrote this around June 5, when she ended the Fearless Tour at Gillette Stadium (Wikipedia counts two festivals as being part of the Fearless Tour but Taylor doesn't, so I'm going with her opinion), since she said that she wrote a song for Speak Now in Boston (which is the closest major city to Gillette)
The Story Of Us: June 9-16, 2010 (Confirmed)
Taylor attended the CMT Awards (Which goes on to be the secret message for The Story Of Us) on June 9 and was sat very close to John Mayer. Taylor: "The people closest to me are used to me deserting a conversation and bolting into some corner of the room with my phone out, hunched over, singing some melody or lyric or hook into my phone. I wrote “The Story of Us” about running into an ex at an awards show, and I came home and sat down at a kitchen table and told my mom, “I felt like I was standing alone in a crowded room.” She tried to console me, but I was gone at that point." Lover Diary: "So I’ve been a little studio rat since the tour ended [...] Ever since, I wake up to my cell phone alarm around 9:30 each morning. Throw on a sundress, skip make up, tie my hair in a messy side braid, and head out the door with no shoes on. Because the only walking outside I’ll be doing is from my house to my car, then from my car, three steps to Nathan’s basement studio. [...] I worked on a song for a few days, then basically finished it in the car on the way to Nathan’s this morning. It. Is. So. Good. And I can safely say I am DONE writing this record!! This song is up-tempo, and hooky and sort of torn-sounding … like this horrible stressed confusion that comes on when you knew the person you’re pining away for is in the room. And for some reason, there are these invisible walls keeping things from being ok. So you’re not fine. And they’re not fine. And I’m so happy I wrote that song!! Footage of Taylor working on TSOU
June 30, 2010: Taylor tweets “@amosjheller is SLAYING a bass part in the studio right now. http://twitpic.com/21am7t” 
Footage Nathan Chapman: “We tried several bassists until we had a bass part that worked, which was played by Amos Heller, of Taylor's live band. In Nashville, it's rare for a road musician to be on the record, but he earned his way into this record by kicking ass. In fact, all Taylor's road musicians played some parts on the album, which was important for me and her.”
July 15, 2010: The orchestra for Back To December and Haunted are recorded (footage here, same outfit as these candids)
Taylor (talking about Haunted): “I wanted the music and the orchestration to reflect the intensity of the emotion the song is about, so we recorded strings with Paul Buckmaster at Capitol Studios in Los Angeles. It was an amazing experience - recording this entire big, live string section that I think in the end really captured the intense, chaotic feeling of confusion I was looking for."
And that's all for this timeline! Check out my others:
TIMELINES: debut • fearless • speak now • red • 1989 • rep • lover • folklore • evermore • midnights PLAYLISTS: debut • fearless • speak now • red • 1989 • rep • lover • folklore • evermore • midnights • entire discography GENERAL: tag
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death-limes · 5 months ago
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Say, which characters in HB and HH do you hate the most character wise and then design wise
OHHH MAN i could write an entire video essay about this topic lmao, let me try to be as brief as possible
~~~
Hazbin - Worst Character: This one's hard, there are a few characters who probably suck but I just don't know that much about them. But based on what I know now, honestly…? Charlie. Coinsidering that… I think Faustisse?… confirmed that she's over 200 years old, the sheer level of naivete on her part is just annoying and unbelievable. She's over twice as old as Alastor, she should not be swayed so easily by him. As far as I'm aware she's not in a Disney Princess situation where she was shut inside the castle walls her entire life (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on that though) so there's no reason why she shouldn't be at least a little savvy to the ways of sinner demons. She should also have been able to see the VERY OBVIOUS SIGNS that Vaggie used to be an exorcist. Even Carmilla comments that it's super fuckin obvious; the Princess of Hell herself should be knowledgeable enough to pick up on hints that even the fandom picked up on when it was just the pilot. Overall, Charlie just comes across as kinda stupid imo. I don't find myself rooting for her at all.
Hazbin - Worst Design: Alastor. I know he may not necessarily look the worst, and I do in fact simp for him, but his design does absolutely NOTHING that a character design is supposed to do. Namely, it doesn't tell us anything about him & it doesn't help him stand out from the cast. Nothing about his design is uniquely 1930s (nobody wore their hair like that, pinstripe suits started in the 1800s and continue to be popular today, monocles were more of an 1800s thing and were considered old-fashioned by the 30s) or deer-esque (his ears really do not look like dear ears at all, and his "antlers" are just microscopic salad forks that don't even show up on his silhouette). The whole Voodoo thing, aside from being super disrespectful to a literal religion that is still actively practiced, is also so inconsequential to his character that it can be removed entirely and change NOTHING about him. Any of his traits that are in line with the Voodoo thing can still exist without it -- him being a trickster and a dealmaker, mostly. All the blacklight stuff doesn't match his aesthetic at all: in Princess and the Frog where everything was 1920s it gave a magic effect, but in Hazbin where all different time periods comingle it just gives a raver effect, which doesn't fit his anti-modern preferences at all. Also the living-shadow thing is yet another direct ripoff from Dr. Facilier (that might just be in the pilot though I'm not sure), I think the living microphone is a better route to take if you want him to have a spiritual companion type of thing; it's more relevant to his theming and more original. And of course none of this even touches on the "he's half-black" bullshit excuse that only came after V*v received backlash about the Voodoo thing. And it doesn't even solve the issue anyway. A mixed-race man from the 1930s would make for a very interesting character IF that unique experience/identity was actually integrated into his character in any noticeable way, but it's not. It was just slapped on at the last minute. Ugh. I could write an entire essay about Alastor alone tbh.
Helluva - Worst Character: Fizzarolli, but mostly when he was first introduced. Aesthetically he's the closest thing that I have to a "blorbo" in this show, but in the Ozzie's episode he just gave me the most rancid vibes ever. Definitely a "asexuality doesn't exist, you just haven't been with ME yet~" type of person. Admittedly that's more of a personal preference thing and less of a poor characterization; they're in the Lust ring, that type of attitude is kind of expected. What IS poor characterization, however, is his "development" later on when he and Ozzie basically get their own arc. His entire personality changes to be much softer and like…. idk, very obviously a trauma VICTIM and not so much of a potential trauma CAUSER? His character is not nearly as abrasive, but there's no corresponding event that would cause such a change. It just seems like now that he's supposed to be a sympathetic character, they changed his personality to be more appealing. He's not nearly as mean and rude as he used to be. Ozzie has a similar thing going on but it's not quiiiiite as severe, and he's saved from being the Worst by having a far more interesting and unique design. (If you had asked who I think has the BEST design in Helluva, I'd probably say Ozzie.)
Helluva - Worst Design: Beelzebub, no contest. A lot of people seemed to have a problem with her being bee-themed instead of fly-themed like the real Beelzebub in demonology, but that honestly doesn't bother me; I'm not expecting any Hellaverse stuff to be super accurate to The Real Lore so any tiny reference they can slip in (like with Ozzie's design) is just gravy. To me, bee and fly are close enough, I think it counts as a reference. Plus, the bee theme goes well with Gluttony ("nectar" is a common synonym for delicious food) and calling her Queen Bee is an easy way to make her name more appealing/sexy than, yknow. "Beelzebub." What DOES bother me is her canine aspect. Why is she a sparkledog? What is the logic behind that? Why isn't she huge-by-default like Ozzie and Mammon? (You'd think GLUTTONY of all sins would be a big character!) It really just feels like V*v wanted Ke$ha to have a cameo role as a major character and just arbitrarily picked one of the sins for her to be. So the character design has Ke$ha in mind faaaaar more than it has Beelzebub in mind. ***(Funny thing about Queen Bee: for a solid week after her episode came out, I was actually fooled by this page from an RP wiki: [https://hazbin-hotel-and-helluva-boss-rp.fandom.com/wiki/Beelzebub] The explanation that I'd gleaned for this version of her is that the picture shown is the REAL Beelzebub, and the one we see in the show is her daughter by the lord of Hellhounds, Cerberus, which explains her canine features. Queen Bee Jr. is the heiress to her mom's title in the same way Charlie is the heiress to Lucifer's title. The picture shown on that page is just SUCH a better design, and it looks like the show's style, and she seems to be a giant like Ozzie and Mammon…. can you blame me for being like "OH that makes sense!!" Cut to me a week later finding out this is just a fan RP wiki. Siiiigh.)
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mamuzzy · 6 months ago
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THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY OPPOSING KAL SKIRATA part 2.
HIS FAMILY FROM THE PAST - Continuation
I've got a couple of response from @mysticaltora8276 and I decided that Ilippi's and Kal's relationship deserves another round to talk about because that's what the original post was about.
What you will find here now: - Dissecting Kal's and Ilippi's relationship even more but now with quotes from the books. - Me confirming the existing misogyny integrated into Karen Traviss' mando lore (I never doubted. I just wanted to find my own answers in this debate instead of choosing existing sides). - No. I still don't hate Kal. You can still love a character while not agreeing with their actions.
More under the cut.
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One of my interesting observation about the antis and "critical thinkers" that while they think they are protecting the women of Repcomm with claw and blood, they are the ones who write them off as "cardboard characters with no soul and own will".
Starting from Ilippy. I thought I emphasised enough how badass was for her to divorce from Kal when she felt she can't adjust to this lifestyle, and wanted to protect her children from the warrior's life.
And it suddenly clicked.
Holy shit, it's 2024. Divorcing from your husband is not a big deal anymore!!!! CAN YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS??? O_____O
(this wasn't a sarcasm.)
Today, divorcing from your husband when you are abused, or neglected, you fear for your children, or bored or you realize after years of marriage that you just don't click is totally a normal thing today and doesn't come with social stigma anymore (in better places). You can even get an official distancing-order.
But people often forget that it wasn't always like this. And remember when these books were written. Hard Contact came out in 2004.
I can't talk about other countries, only the post-soviet ones, but in the 80's-90's, it was still considered shameful for women to initiate divorce from their husband, no matter whether she was treated bad, the whole neighbourhood knew she was treated bad, relatives very much aware that the wife was treated bad. They blamed women for not putting up the whims of the husband. Blamed by women and men as well.
Hungarian poetry is actually full of ballads, how the wives were forced to kill their husbands to save themselves from abusive relationships or forced marriage because divorce wasn't an option: it was, but then you were shamed by your whole community. Shamed by women and men as well.
One of the other thing, that really changed is the time when you get married. Today is also considered normal to marry and have a kid at age 30+, while couples of from my parents generation usually married at age 18-19. And Kal and Ilippi also married rather young, which is also the part of Karen Traviss's mandalorian culture, but can be a mirror about old generational couples of real life.
I looked up the definition of misogyny (my own experience is one thing but I'm not going to traumadump here):
Misogyny (/mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. It is a form of sexism that can keep women at a lower social status than men, thus maintaining the social roles of patriarchy. An example of misogyny is violence against women, which includes domestic violence and, in its most extreme forms, misogynist terrorism and femicide. Misogyny also often operates through sexual harassment, coercion, and psychological techniques aimed at controlling women, and by legally or socially excluding women from full citizenship. In some cases, misogyny rewards women for accepting an inferior status. (From wikipedia)
In this definition, IN OUR HUMAN EARTHLING STANDARDS keeping Ilippi in lower social status as a wife in a secluded place where she was expected to raise their children and wait for her husband without any other option (they lived in the middle of nowhere, no neighbours, no cities around for her to spend time or work or getting friends), yes, it is misogyny.
Only Ilippi had options: embracing the mandalorian culture and became a warriorwife, asking Kal to teach her, maybe joining him later.
ASSUMPTION HERE: I don't think Kal really knew how to handle a non-mando girl. I don't think they really talked about their future as a mando couple. Ilippi worked as a waitress and probably at that time it was a good idea to be a wife of a mercenary. Two young people met, fell in love, and later they realized, their expectations hadn't met. I don't think Ilippi was really interested becoming a fighterwife just as Kal wasn't interested leaving the mercenary life and his own culture behind. But also: here is the confimation of mando couples marrying young from Order 66. But also that Ilippi first found Kal and his profession attractive in her eyes.
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Their serious arguments started when the possibility came up that Kal wanted to bring the children along with him.
This is a snippet from True Colors when they talk about the responsibilties of a mandowife.
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Ordo is making a (rather sexist) joke, so how reilable this information can be is very much debatable. If he says it's nothing hard for a jedi, than it is probably very hard and tiresome for a civilian like Ilippi.
SPECULATION: I can imagine that sometimes Mandowife gets up, now it's her turn to go out and make some money and the husband stays home with the children. -> But because the conversation above it can be interpreted many ways, it's hard to say what exactly was their duty.
Before you kill me for using mandowife here mandoWIFE there instead of riduur...
One of my problem with Karen Traviss' Mandalorian lore, that the whole culture and social expectations were supposed to be completely gender neutral. Can you handle yourself as a warrior? You are a mando. That's it. But here, there are inbuilt gender expectations and roles. -> By the definition of the misogyny above, this is one, because mandalorian women are still bound by the stereotypes of the patriarchal role of a women in a heteronormative family.
Ok, back to Ilippi.
Now this is the first scene Ilippi first mentioned in Triple Zero. I fail to see how she was treated bad by the narrative or Kal or Jango.
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Ilippi decided this life is not for her. Ilippi didn't wanted the mandalorian life for her and for their children. She didn't want to assimiliate. She realized these people are wackos and she has to get out as soon as possible before Kal really take their children to war. And she did.
This is how their divorce went (Order 66)
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Ilippi was never deprived from choices. She literally took the kids when Kal was away and Kal returned to an empty home. If she was really held in lower social status, and her rights and feelings weren't respected at all, Kal could have go and forced her to come back without her consent. Or simply do honor-killing like many cultures and religions do in real life where misogyny isn't just making sexist jokes (like the Ordo conversation), but the whole family will actually hunt you down for leaving your husband.
Kal respected this choice. Does he deserve a praise for it? Probably not. This is how it should be: respecting others.
But also this confirms that Kal never stopped supporting financially his family.
And lastly I wanted to add this one because I really loved this conversation:
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Kamino was the point were Kal actually cut himself from his family entirely. Not before. Kal had a chance to reconnect with his biological children when he got the news from Jango (though it's debatable, my speculation is that Kal would have been killed if he had left Kamino before the contract's end). He choose the Nulls and the commandos under his care.
But this is also interesting that in the Mando culture when your wife is divorcing from you, you, the husband are to blame: a switched-mirror to the formerly mentioned real life example of how divorcing from your husband is shameful as a woman. If you fail as a parent, as a husband, you fail as a human being.
ABOUT THE CHILD SOLDIER DEBATE: if you need the author to spoonfeed you with the narrative that explicitly condems the existence of childsoldiers, the problem is not with the media, the problem is with you.
IN CONCLUSION: Ilippy is still a fucking badass. Kal loved his family. Kal respected Ilippy and her choice. Real life misogyny integrated into the mando culture spotted which is - obviously - affected Kal too.
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HOOOOooooooOOOooOoooOoly shit, that was a ride. Because I partially touched to topic about his sons, I think my next post will be about Tor, Ijaat and Ruusaan.
If you actually read through all this blurb, in one hand KUDOS TO YOU, on the other hand, you can expect something like this from me when I actually start to my blogging about the books.
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haunted-xander · 1 year ago
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Hsr age headcanons except I also explain my reasonings bc I read everyones lore to get it more accurate.
(Also, a few things to note that will be relevant to my explainations: Some of these I'm not 100% certain of the age groups I put them in here, so some might not be as specific. Blade will be considered his age prior to being mara-struck for the sake of this post. Imbibitor Lunae is a stand in for Dan Feng.)
Let's begin, shall we?
Child (6-12)
Hook: I believe she's around 7-8. She's very obviously a kid, but I don't think she's like, a toddler or anything. She's smart enought to pull the clever little tricks she does, and has enough awareness to understand some harder topics (like Fersman's declining health and the reality of her birth parent's deaths).
Clara: I originally figured she was around 14 or so, but since one of her stories claim she's of similar age to Hook, and one of Hook's stories has her note Clara is a few years older than her, I think I'd put her around 11-12. Maaaaaybe 10, but that feels a bit too young for her.
Early to mid teens (13-17)
Arlan: Probably around 17 or so. We know he's younger than Asta, who met him when he was a kid and offered him a job for her family, and she also mentions that she took him in during her companion mission. Herta also says in her voice line about him that he's probably one of the "exceptionally gifted" kids Asta gave money to.
Lynx: She's much younger than Gepard and Serval, obviously, but she's also probably around the same age as Pela (who is confirmed to be 16) given how close they are and how they interact. Her companion mission also largely revolves around her trying to escape her older siblings protectiveness, which I feel is relatable to a lot of teens lol.
Late teen (18-19)
Silver Wolf: Tbh I don't have any solid justification for this, mostly just vibes. She's definitely younger than Kafka, but other than that I don't really have much to go off of. Probably 19, but I could see her maybe being early 20s too.
Guinaifen: I'm not completely sure about this one tbh. She's definitely a teenager, she says she's close to but not yet an adult to Bailu after we chase her and the Heliobus possessing her. She's also very close friends with Sushang, (who is confirmed to be around 16-17) so it makes sense for Gui to be a similar age too. The thing that's tripping me up is that one of her stories says she spent all her teenage years on the planet she lived on prior to coming to the Luofu, which would make her 19 at minimum. It could also just be exaggerating, or not counting 18 & 19 as teen years (that one seems unlikely though).
Young adult (20+)
Trailblazer: Well, obviously, Trailblazer is actually like a few months old at most seeing as we start the game by being "born" but, ya know. They're treated as an adult by everyone around them, not to mention they're clearly meant to be around the same age as March and Dan Heng, who are also depicted as adults (Dan Heng has been seen drinking in official art, for example). I think maybe like, around 20-22 would fit.
March: There's what I mentioned previously of course (being close in age to Trailblazer and Dan Heng), but the whole "girls like me/my age all like this and this" thing is a very typical mindset of late teens & very young adults. The way she talks about taking pictures of food in one of her stories also sound very much like how a young adult would explain it lolol. Like Trailblazer, probably around 20-22. Tbh I'm not sure how to explain my reasoning when basing it off of her behaviour without it sounding like I'm saying all girls her age do this, I'm not 😅 but it is common enough I feel like it adds to her feeling that age, ya know?
Asta: As mentioned with Arlan, we know she's notably older than him. I would say her position on the space station means she has a decent amount of life experience for her to do it so well, but this is Hoyoverse and anyone can do anything regardless of age, so that doesn't really work lol. That said, she clearly has had the position for a long time, so even if she wasn't an adult when she started, she definitely should be now. Probably around 23-24.
Bronya: She's been in the Silvermane Guards for long enough to be well-known and trusted for her skills, and with how easily she took up the position of Supreme Guardian, she has a lot of public faith and trust as well. She needs to have been serving for a good amount of years, to get all that. That said, I do think she started young, so I'd put her at around early-to-mid 20s. probably around 23-24 like Asta.
Seele: Canonicly around the same age as Bronya, so probably about 23-24 again.
Luka: Not much concrete to go off of, but he's probably around the same age as Seele given their interactions. He's also obviously an adult, or Hook would've dropped the 'honourary' part and just make him a proper Mole lolol. Around 23-24 again.
Topaz: In her voice line about Bronya she says they're around the same age. March also notes that she's pretty young for an executive, and her character stories explain that she started working for the IPC at a VERY young age. Probably around 23-24 yet again.
Adult (30+)
Sampo: He's a notorious scammer who's being doing his work in Belobog for a long enough time to become notorious, so him being in his 30s seems likely. I don't have any other reasoning besides that, really. probably around mid 30s, like 35-36 or something.
Himeko: She had already finished college when she found the express, so she was already an adult then. It's been many years since then, so she's definitely not some young 20-something year old lolol. probably mid-to-late 30s, like 37-38 or the like.
Gepard: Mid-to-late 30s. He's younger than Serval, so he's below 40 (not that I really thought he was middle-aged anyway) and he's probably older than Bronya, as in one of her stories he comforts her after the first death to happen under her leadership, clearly having already gotten used to it. Also, apparently he has a bachelor's degree? (According to the fandom wiki's trivia section). Anyway. Around 37-38 probably.
Luocha: I couldn't really find anything that indicates anything in particular, so I'm just gonna say he's mid 30s based off of vibes alone. Like 35-36 or something.
Kafka: Her age is only ever stated as "unknown" and, like Luocha, I couldn't find anything that indicates anything in particular. So I'm just gonna say she's mid-to-late 30s like Himeko and call it a day. 37-38.
Argenti: His character stories show a variety of different scenes throughout his journey as a Kmight of Beauty, so he has experienced a great deal. Mid 30s, probably. Like 35-36. I don't have much else to go off of.
Middle aged and beyond (40+)
Herta: We know she's like, really old. Like really really old. I don't know exactly HOW old, but old. I think she's still within a human lifespan though, so maybe like 70-80 or something. Physically speaking though, she herself states that her current puppet body looks "70% like I did as a child" so. Yeah. Baby grandma.
Natasha: She raised Seele and was the main caretaker at the orphanage she grew up in, so she ain't exactly young (despite what hyvs aversion to portraying older people properly will tell you). Probably late 40s to early 50s. 49-50 maybe.
Serval: Canonicaly the same age as Cocolia, who raised Bronya for most of her life. Bronya also recognizes Serval as Cocolia's old friend from when she was a child. Mid-to-late 40 probably. 45-46 maybe.
Blade: Yingxing is refered to as 'middle-aged' in-game at around the time it all went down, and he's shown with visible aging and with grayed hair (that is, assuming Blade's current black hair is his natural haircolor?). Probably late 40s, like 48-49 or something.
Canon age
Pela: 16, as stated by Lynx in her & Lynx's companion mission. People have pointed out that this is a plot hole due to other information we have about Pela, but 1) the only thing that goes against this is the claim she was a founding member of Serval's band, which I can 100% believe is either a mistranslation or a case of a writer not cross-referencing properly. (also, I don't remember where this is ever claimed in-game, so if anyone can point me to it I'd appreciate it.) And 2) her being a teen makes more sense with how she's written, imo, so I don't really care if it's actually a plot hole.
Sushang: One of her stories says she's "around 16 to 17 years old". Obviously, this isn't her REAL age since she's a Xianzhou native, but it is the age she is equivalent to for a short-life species.
Welt: 80+. He arrived in the hsr universe at the time of APHO, which takes place in 2025. Since Welt was born in 1947, this would make him 78. While we don't know exactly how long he's been here, he seems to have been here a quite a while, so, 80+ it is.
Long-life species
(equivalent to) Child (6-12)
Bailu: She's been described as a child many, many times, including by herself (multiple times). Although she's probably older than she looks, as both she and several others remark that she has trouble growing bigger for some unknown reason. I'd say maybe around 10-11.
(equivalent to) Early to mid teen (13-17)
Qingque: She reads to me like a 14 year old being forced to take up a summer job by her parents because 'you need to get experience so you can get a job easier when you're older!'. Actually I think that's literally what's going on except summer jobs don't exist on the Luofu so now she has a full-time job at 14 years old. Yeah I don't actually have anything else to go off of other than the level of control her parents have over her life.
Yanqing: His character stories say he is 1) not yet of age (so below 18) and 2) a teenager. Very simple. Not sure why people are arguing about his age so much when it literally says right there in the game that he is a teenage boy. Probably 15.
Huohuo: Honestly not much to go off of. Probably around 14, based solely on vibes.
(equivalent to) Young adult (20+)
Dan Heng: Depicted as a young adult of similar age to Trailblazer and March, as mentioned previously. Pretty simple. That said, I do want to note that one of Blade's stories describe him as a teen. But, based on the way it's written, this seems to be Blade's first encounter with him, so it's probably not accurate to Dan Heng's current age.
Tingyun: Her stories describe her as pretty young, but the way she carried herself and the sort of businesses she did makes me think she was at least 20. Like 20-21 probably.
Fu Xuan: Once again, not much concrete to go off of. Her stories give me the impression she joined the divination comission rather young, and I think she's been the master diviner for quite a while now. Maybe early 20s, like 22-23 or something.
(equivalent to) Adult (30+)
Dan Feng: We don't really know how old Dan Feng was when everything went down other than that he was older than Dan Heng is currently. I'd put him in mid 30s, solely on vibes. I mean, he got engaged and quite literally made a child, so I'd say 30 fits. Ignoring the fact neither of those things have much to do with his age at all. 34-35 maybe.
Hanya: Honestly I have no clue and her stories just confused me. She has the vibes of a 30-something year old so I put her here. My view on her age will probably change once Xueyi is out if only bc I might be able to figure Xueyi's age out better and Hanya would then be somewhere under that.
(equivalent to) Middle aged and beyond (40+)
Jing Yuan: Listen. He's seen shit. He has lived a long ass time. And it's canon he basically raised Yanqing, he's a dad ya'll. probably early-to-mid 40s, like 44-45 maybe. I don't know.
Yukong: She's old. Like actually old. Technically much younger than Jing Yuan, but since foxians lifespans are shorter than other long-life species, she's equivalent to a lot older than he is. She's 249 and foxians live up to 300. She's OLD. I'd say she's like 70 or something.
Jingliu: Also old. She's like, 2000 years old or something, she's a grandma. Probably equivalent to up to 80-something. Except she looks 30 bc Mara. And also long-life species don't actually age past a certain point, so she physically is not capable of looking above 30.
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altocat · 11 months ago
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I have a question.
I think Genesis' parents were one of the best people in the game, they were rich people who decided to adopt a victim of child experimentation and falsified reports to shield Genesis from having ShinRa's interest, thus risking their lives. Also, Angeal said he didn't steal from them, not because he was afraid of them punishing them, but simply because he was a friend with their son. As far as I understand, all canon info about them is pointing to them being amazing people, though it's possible I missed something.
Why do you think people write/hc them as shitty people who deserve to die? What canon info says they're bad?
You often say Sephiroth is a horrible monster with absolutely no hope for redemption for killing people in Nibelheim, which is true.
Why do you think Genesis is a cute baby boy for killing everyone in Banora, including his parents, who earned his redemption with his virtuous acts? Were people in Banora all monsters?
Sorry if it's a weird question, but I keep wondering about it and curiosity got the best of me. Genesis and Sephiroth killed people when they were blind with their desire for revenge, but Sephiroth didn't kill his family. What makes it a redeeming act for Genesis?
It's very likely that Genesis' parents were fully aware of the experiments and were in on it the entire time. Genesis hints as much when he claims that they betrayed him, much in the way of how Shinra betrayed him. Additionally, they did not lie on behalf of their son WILLINGLY, only because Genesis threatened them. They probably would have readily given him up to Shinra, despite the fact that he's their son.
Add to this the very odd fact that Genesis keeps a collection of his childhood accomplishments OUTSIDE of his old home, as well as the fact that Hollander, Hojo, and Gillian were ALL in the know about the experiments, it's very, very likely that Genesis always felt disconnected from his parents and that they were very much in league with his abusers. If it happened with Angeal, then there's no way Genesis' parents didn't know. And I highly doubt they took him in out of the kindness of their hearts considering that he just enlisted in SOLDIER the second he came of age. Likely he was being groomed since childhood into joining Shinra's ranks.
I think that Genesis probably had a very good reason to be angry. And to feel betrayed by his parents. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can add extra details to this to polish up what I'm trying to say, but Genesis is just as much of a victim as both Angeal and Sephiroth. He was still being integrated into Shinra and there was no way they were ever going to let one of the top specimens of Project G live a normal life. Angeal's family was not rich because Gillian refused to let Shinra/Hollander compensate them. Who's to say that Genesis' parents weren't rich partially because they were high status allies to Shinra? Why else are they in Shinra's contact list?
And another thing to note:
When Genesis kills his parents (offscreen), he is suffering from the effects of the Degradation Process. He is literally performing an act as a result of mind-altering internal decay and possible brain damage. I'm not doing to pretend that killing one's parents is a cool and okay thing to do, but this is a scenario in which an effectively dying man being ravaged by sickness is killing his parents out of the perceived likelihood that they were in league with the people who did this to him. And probably had more than enough reasons to confirm that his suspicions were true.
Compare to Sephiroth, who killed other people's parents, who were completely innocent and had nothing at all to do with what Shinra did to him.
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