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lovecolibri · 3 years ago

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Is there a post where you’ve discussed why the former RNM showrunner reminds you of KR? If not, would you mind explaining?

I want to know how bad it could get. 🤔😬

I made this post that goes more in depth about some of the particulars of the show as related to the Michael/Buck gf breakup scenarios if you want to check that out as well for some more background on exactly how badly RNM screwed up their own narrative and that is just the tip of the iceberg. We don't have all day so I'm going to pick some highlights.

I'm also putting in a read more because this is going to mention some stuff about episode 2x06 of RNM which is a sensitive subject for many fans and because it discusses a bit what happened in that episode (a disabled gay man, abused by his homophobic father, in a threesome initiated with him by his female "best friend" in a situation where he was injured, traumatized, and had no easy access to leave) and the actress and showrunner's responses to that. This post will have the anti 2x06 tags as well, but if this is something upsetting that you want to skip, you won't have to scroll past it all. (Also, Tina, if you'd rather not read about it either, DM me and I'll give you the edited version) I also don’t know how much you or anyone else reading know about RNM (or the previous Roswell show) so this is going to get...long.

Basically the tl;dr is this: both woman have said some homophobic things, talk down to their fans, try to say they aren’t seeing the things on their screen they think they’re seeing, that the way they wrote a scene is being interpreted incorrectly by fans, and that fans need to let go of certain ideas about the show because THEY are the ones in charge, not the fans.

OKAY, SO.

Carina was the creator and showrunner for RNM for 2 seasons. She "left" for "reasons" (strong suspected she was asked to leave) and the show aired it's 3rd season in the fall.

The parallels me and several other dual RNM/911 fans have noticed is the attitude towards fans and the way both women talk down to fans, often claiming they are watching the show wrong, that fans are seeing things, and that fans are not interpreting the show the way THEY want it interpreted.

For KR it’s denying that Buddie has romantic undertones (which is just...categorically untrue and we have the videos to prove it), and telling fans they’re just seeing things, as well as pulling out the ��breath of fresh air” line about a budding m/f relationship that no one wanted and then getting pissy about it when people hated it.

For RNM where Malex, the mlm couple IS canon (Alex is gay, Michael is bi), Carina's comments were about Michael's choice to date one of the female characters who is Alex's best friend after a major trauma in Michael's life and how it was supposed to be a fun flirty grounding relationship for him or some other such nonsense. (As with KR I tried to avoid hearing anything she had to say but some of it inevitably made it's way to Tumblr.) But she also falls into the camp of pushing a love triangle NO ONE wanted (a decade-long love affair between two men, separated due to trauma, one of whom is an alien in a show with a heavy “true soulmates” theme just can’t compete with this One Cool Woman Who Is Just So Pretty And Badass And Mean To The Guy Because She’s A Strong Woman 🙄🙄🙄), and then got upset when fans hated it, especially after it drug out for a whole season and nearly totally assassinated Michael’s character by having him pick this woman over his soulmate over, and over, and over, and then never show him definitively picking him, because his gf is the one to break up with him while he begs her no to 🙃 It was also another instance of a relationship that people actually really enjoyed as a m/f friendship and could have been a really fun relationship to have on the show, but that would never work as a romance because she had no idea who he truly was, how to talk to him when he was upset and spiraling...do you see where I’m going with this? Carina was also a HUGE fan of telling fans they weren’t interpreting scenes how she wrote them, but like....as a showrunner it’s her JOB to make sure that the story she’s trying to tell is what makes it to the screen and if EVERYONE is seeing something other than what you intended to put out, maybe you need to rethink what you’re doing.

(Also there's something to be said for the actors Michael Vlaims and Oliver Stark doing as their jobs asked and hyping up the relationship (I believe Vlammy was the one with the “breath of fresh air” line that I can never hear again without getting angry) but after getting the backlash and realizing that's not what their fans wanted, they did what they needed to in order to save their own reputations with fans, reverting to radio silence in Oliver's case, and going full tilt HARD into the Malex relationship hype for Vlamis as his relationship was canon)

It’s also important to note, is that RNM starts 10 years after major events in these characters lives after which they went different ways. Michael and Alex were together before Alex left for the military (😳 see the end for some...inch resting comparison notes about these characters), and it's heavily implied that they kept up some kind of relationship and hookups during the intervening 10 years, and the woman Michael gets with was also Alex’s best friend and knew he had started something with a mysterious Museum Guy he met before he left and that he was still in love with that guy, and also she’s a psychic and always seen picking up on things except apparently how much both of them were still in love with and pining for each other which implies she’s dumb, or willfully ignorant, or actively manipulative, so there are some levels of deep betrayal involved in this story that the showrunner just...pretended didn’t exist because they are “adults” and her idea of their “adult” love triangle was that no one, not even the one person in the triangle NOT deeply traumatized and also possessing the knowledge that Alex was still in love with Michael and just...kept it to herself (oh wait, she outed Michael to another friend and then they shrugged it off because “you can’t help who you love”) did anything wrong, Alex was never allowed express that he was hurt or angry, and Michael was allowed to pick her over Alex over and over and over until she broke up with him.

I’m going to touch very briefly on 2x06 because that was the most egregious of the comments from Carina, and I will bless forever the person who leaked the post mortem interview with the actress about That Scene which gave everyone a heads up about it, and the person who leaked the episode early so people were able to screen it and save others from going into that moment blind or able to choose not to watch it at all. The sparknotes version is Alex and Maria talked about Alex’s previous relationships in HS with women (it was Bad, his dad was homophobic and abusive were attacked by a crazy man and Alex was stabbed, Michael came to help but was knocked unconscious at one point, and they all had to take Michael’s car back to his tiny airstream trailer. Alex gay, and is a below-the-knee amputee who was not only running on his leg but also was stabbed, and did not have his vehicle to leave the situation when they returned to Michael’s place, and also was very much still in love with Michael. Maria kisses Michael and Alex tries to leave and Maria says she doesn’t want him to and then kisses him. Sexy times ensue because apparently bleeding chest wounds and concussions are sexy (Michael also exhibits some confusion about the situation which isn’t clarified and could be attributed in part to his concussion). I also have a post with more in depth about the consent issues with that scene though I haven’t looked at it since I wrote it so if it sounds like I was shaking with rage and disgust when I wrote it, it’s because I was.

The argument for this being a trauma spiral for both Michael and Alex was made by fans as we have seen with the cheating arc for Buck, however as with the Buck situation the showrunner made it very clear that’s not the interpretation she was going for. In fact, the interview regarding the episode was no with the actor who plays a bi-man, nor was it with the bisexual actor who plays a gay man about the complexities of sexuality, it was with the actress and all about how it was a fun sexy time, it was her knowing Michael and Alex still had feelings for each other but she wanted Michael to pick her so she started this situation to see what would stick after it was over, and about her being the one to initiate and be in control of the situation. Which is all...awful on it’s own and some of it got walked back by the showrunner Carina that it wasn’t Maria being manipulative but like...the actress said she played it that way 🤷‍♀️ and she specifically stated she talked with Carina about the scene ahead of time so someone’s intentions weren’t made clear or someone is lying but either way, not a good look.

Then Carina doubled down at the backlash insisting this was a fun, fully and enthusiastically consenting sex scene and that no one did anything wrong, completely disregarding Alex and Michael’s C-PTSD from growing up in neglectful, abusive environments, their trauma responses (Michael falls back on sex as a coping mechanism, and specifically has a history of falling into bed with Alex instead of talking about their shared trauma, and falling in bed with random women because he is desperate for love and connection and isn’t sure how else to get it since people only ever want him for his body and what it can do for them. Where have we seen that before?), their past relationship history with each other, the fact that both of them were injured, that Alex couldn’t leave and even said he wanted to leave and was stopped, and...a host of other issues surrounding that scene. She to this day insists that backlash was unwarranted and was the result of the misogyny of crazy fans just hating female characters for absolutely no reason at all, instead of admitting she never stopped to contemplate how the background and backstories for these characters might affect a scene and that you can’t have a sex scene in a bubble, unaffected by current circumstances and past events. It’s pretty clear she went into creating this show from the very start with the idea of switching the original show (and book) paring of Michael and Maria with Michael and Alex, and making Michael bi so she could “pay homage” to the OG ship by having him date both, and so she could work in the threesome for some “groundbreaking” television. Then as the characters were fleshed out and backstories and histories with each other were decided on, she just...refused to change course or adapt to how the backstories would affect the characters in present day and their motivations, AND how the audience would perceive the characters leading up to that moment.

Now, 911 is typically better at the adult storytelling because it lets characters be flawed and make mistakes, but the thing 911 typically does, is have characters admit they made a mistake, talk things out, and learn from their actions and become better people through them. So with KR coming in and acting like this cheating thing is not only no big deal but also that it’s a normal, easy and fun lead up into a cute work flirtationship, on top of saying that Buck and Chim already talked things out (though he still wasn’t taking Bucks calls so like, when?! Did he call Buck after he left the message about knowing where Maddie was? Who knows! Not us that’s for damn sure), that The Will isn’t a big deal and won’t come up again, and how weirdly distant and OOC things have felt in 5a, it’s all just very “I’ve seen this film before, and I didn’t like the ending”.

I don’t know since Tim is technically still in charge and has some say over how things play out, and because the response to this new storyline has clearly been worse than they could have imagined or they wouldn’t have done it (though how anyone thought it was a good idea or that anyone in the year of our lord 2022 would accept a fan fave cheating with some rando we don’t even know and now will NEVER like, is beyond me), if that will change anything. 911 as a waaaay bigger budget and are still filming so they have time to somewhat course correct at this point if they choose to. And 911 has other people who can do press so they may just decide to not let her give anymore interviews which would be for the best. Carina was always popping off on Twitter apparently but again, I avoided anything from her like the plague. Plus with a wider, louder audience on a well-established, top rated show in it’s 5th season, the fan reaction carries a little more weight so we shall see! The important thing is, they both seem narcissistic and rude and obsessed with pointless relationship drama that they think is “fun” when it’s actually very gross, with talking down to fans, insisting they are right and everyone else is just seeing things, and making moves with their self-insert characters out of pettiness and to get back at fans.

This is probably....WAY more than you wanted or needed to know, and it’s very long and I’m too tired now to go back and edit this down but here you go!

And as an added bonus, enjoy these malex/buddie character parallels, contributed in part by @idealuk

Michael/Buck:

both are sandy-blond/curly-haired bi men

both are in love with brunet (gay) vets (speculation on both because nothing is canon confirmed for Buck or Eddie but like, it’s not far off the mark)

both used to rely on one-night stands/casual sex as a replacement for intimacy they are starved for but cut themselves off from

both can walk through fire

both were a type of savior baby

both light up around the man they love like they could power the sun

both have mommy AND daddy issues

both have pseudo dads who are alcoholics, see more than people think, and hit them with tough truths and tough love when they need to get their heads out of their asses

both believe their lives are worth less than the lives of the people around them and would rather be shot than have their love shot (Buck didn’t get the step between Eddie and the bullet but if the situation had been the same as with Malex, he would have stood between Eddie and the gun, no questions asked)

both have people who think they are acting cocky when it’s just a front to cover up their vulnerabilities

both have a man that loves them that sees to the truth of them that everyone else misses because they fall for the big, cocky front.

Alex/Eddie

both are brunets and written as half white/half native to the continent

both joined the military as a way to escape what was happening at home

both have difficult relationships with both of their parents

both were injured at war and sent home

both have PTSD from their tours and both have medals earned while overseas

both seem kind of quite but have a dry, biting sense of humor

both feel they have to shoulder all the responsibilities to keep everyone safe, leaving others behind to do so, or because they think it would be better for them, without really talking to them about it

both often sacrifice their own happiness to protect others or make others happy

both very much “I’ll hold all my emotions *right here* and then one day, I’ll die” kind of people because of their upbringing but are trying to do better

There are probably many more comparisons, but, I think you get the gist. The big difference here? The non-canon couple are raising a child together, soooo that’s fun 🙃

sorry not sorry this is a HUGE mess.

#my sweet not so anonymous friends #911 #911 spoilers #buddie #anti bucklucy #anti bluck #roswell nm #roswell nm my behated #anti 2x06 #2x06 mention #2x06 airstream scene #anti malexa #anti maria deluca

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magnus-the-maqnificent · 3 years ago

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Let's Analyze - Alec in CoFA

So, I’ve been seeing plenty of discourse on two of my mutual’s blogs about this topic… so I thought I’d sit down and write another analysis post about my beloved Alec Lightwood cause people are still giving him shit for a book that came out ten years ago 🤦‍♀️

This is gonna be in two parts, and I'm putting both under the cut:

PART 1 - ALEC’S INSECURITIES

So, the first part - how Alec’s insecurities drove him to saying stupid things in CoFA

A quick disclaimer - I’m NOT blaming Alec alone for his and Magnus’s break up. What happened was pretty complicated, and the blame cannot be put on one person alone.

That said, let’s start with Magnus and Alec’s early ‘official’ relationship, in trsom.

These scenes are taken from only the first part of the book, but I’m pretty sure they’re more than enough to get a sense of Alec’s insecurities and all the chinks in their relationship. Throughout the entirety of trsom, we see more bits and pieces of Alec’s insecurities about Magnus’s sexuality, and his past and all the people he might have known - and that’s okay! Insecurities happen, cause brains are stupid like that.

But all of Alec’s insecurities could’ve been laid to rest with a simple conversation. But the conversation never happens. Magnus tends to deflect and change the topic every single time his past is brought up. I understand Magnus’s reasons for hiding his past, of course, but it doesn’t help his relationship with Alec. Magnus hiding a good chunk of his past will inevitably lead to Alec questioning himself - why is he so secretive? Why is he not telling me anything? Does he not trust me? ...and so on.

And when Alec is already feeling insecure in this relationship, this happens - (sorry about the terrible cropping btw)

And then later, while Magnus is talking to Camille,

Now… when people are insecure about something, they get irked at the smallest of things. I’m saying this as an insecure person myself. So now, you've got Alec, who's insecure as fuck, and his vacation with the person he loves got cut short by his ex who refuses to talk to anyone but him, and when they get there, his lover and his lover's ex seem to have obvious chemistry, he gets hit with the reality that his lover has dated several, probably even hundreds of people before him; and he has to leave them alone in a room so they can talk, and then he hears the ex basically just list all his shortcomings - i.e, his mortality, his appearance is compared to some random dead guy (sorry, Will) whom your lover had a crush on, which is just weird, and when you've had enough and open the door, it's to see your lover and his ex, standing close as fuck, and he's! touching! her! face! and! looking! into! her! eyes!

*takes a sip of water* yeahhhh... Alec was straight up having a bad day.

And at this point, a) Alec is still in his first relationship. He didn't get to navigate romance when he was younger, and while there's nothing wrong with that, there weren't exactly cutesy presentations titled 'how to keep your relationships healthy' floating around the internet. Heck, he didn’t know the internet. He didn't know that he had to communicate with Magnus, and it doesn't help that boy avoids conversations about feelings like the plague. And b) at this point, Alec would be facing several negative emotions - insecurity, obviously. Hurt. Helplessness, because of his mortality. Fear, that he might not live up to Magnus’s past lovers. Jealousy at seeing Magnus and Camille so close.

Negative emotions like these often tend to show up as anger or sorrow... and in Alec’s case, that would be anger. Which leads us to THIS- (🙈)

*sighs in second-hand embarrassment*

*drinks more water*

*this is gonna be so hard aksjakak*

So. Alec dealt with his insecurities... by being a mean, mean bitch to Magnus :/

Let's break this scene down, slowly, bit by bit.

First, Alec cuts into a conversation between Magnus and Jordan, when Magnus mentions Woolsey Scott, followed the rest of that particular page. To Alec, he's just a figure from Magnus’s past, and a possible lover, though in Alec’s defense Woolsey Scott WAS Magnus’s lover. This is the first instance that we see in which Alec lashes out at Magnus. It seems like he's trying to make a point to Magnus - "I don't know anything about your past, and so I don't know who you've had romances with, but I want to know." Except he makes his point in the worst way possible and ends up slutshaming Magnus.

The "What's true?" line, in response to Jordan saying "so it's true what they say about warlocks, then?" is pretty obvious. Alec is clearly not liking the idea that this random werewolf might know about warlocks, and in particular, his Warlock boyfriend.

Next... ooh boy... Alec basically snaps and in the next few paragraphs accuses Magnus of wanting to flirt with others which... is not a good look on ya honey 😕. These lines are the ones that get him accused of being biphobic... but is he really? I'm gonna talk about that in part 2.

So, in the first paragraph, where Alec makes the comments about Jordan, I find his choice of words pretty... interesting, seeing as 'messy-haired', 'broad-shouldered' and 'chiseled-good-looks' are all used to describe Alec in the series. Not sure if its relevant, but definitely interesting.

And in the next one, where Alec says, "or there are plenty of pretty girls here, since apparently your taste goes both ways. Is there anything you aren't into?" The 'apparently' makes me curious. In rsom, Alec mentions that he's only recently heard of the term bisexual, and there's plenty of time between rsom and cofa, so Alec should be absolutely sure of atleast the basic meaning of bisexuality. But I'm pretty sure it's just inconsistency on cc's part, since if rsom didn't exist, this book would be the first time Alec learns about Magnus’s bisexuality. (Which is obvious when you look at the scene after Magnus reveals that Camille is his girlfriend.) And as for the second sentence, I feel like it's a fallback to earlier in the book when Magnus says (I'm just gonna write the dialogue from memory), "I've dated men, women, warlocks, faeries, vampires, werewolves and even a djinn or two." Here, Alec is angry, and he takes the knowledge that Magnus has dated a variety of people and once again, lashes out.

Looking at all of it together, Alec’s insecurities are definitely a factor in all of this. We know Alec has pretty low self esteem in tmi, and he keeps having irrational thoughts about someone else grabbing Magnus’s attention, like in the trsom scene I've posted above. And he ends up taking out his insecurities on Magnus.

Was it wrong of Alec to say all those things to Magnus? Yes, absolutely. But looking back through all his scenes in cofa, it's easy to see how he could've fallen into the pit trap of emotions.

And before anyone says "but it wasn't addressed in the later books", it was, in CoLS. I’ve hit the image limit, so I'm just gonna type it out -

"[Magnus] said it would be better if he didn’t come. Apparently him and the Seelie Queen have some kind of history."

Isabelle raised her eyebrows.

"Not that kind of history," Alec said irritably. "Some kind of feud. Though," he added, half under his breath, "the way he got around before me, I wouldn't be surprised."

"Alec!" Isabelle dropped back to talk to her brother....

So, there. Alec makes yet another slutshaming comment, Isabelle overhears and is clearly not happy about it, and it's clearly implied that she talks to Alec about it. And Alec doesn't make any more slutshaming comments since then. Boy now knows what he did was wrong, and makes sure not to repeat it again.

Although, I do wish we had more than this. I wish we had more of Magnus and Alec talking about this argument, heck, even about all their arguments and the reasons they broke up, but you can't get everything you want, apparently :(

And now onto the next part...

PART 2 - IS ALEC BIPHOBIC?

The short answer, uh, no, not really.

The long answer.... would be complicated.

So, back in the day, when this discourse was at an all time high, I remember reading a bisexual person's essay about this topic, and they said that this comment from Alec - "or there are plenty of pretty girls here, since apparently your taste goes both ways. Is there anything you aren't into?" - would be a biphobic microagression.

According to Google, a microagression is "a statement, action, or incident regarded as an instance of indirect, subtle, or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group such as a racial or ethnic minority".

And in Alec's case, IF his words were biphobic, they were completely unintentional. They were microagressive. Which is... still bad, of course, but it's more complicated than that.

If you look back on Alec's supposedly biphobic statements, they're more about Magnus’s hypersexuality and promiscuity than anything else. Yes, even the line i mentioned like two paragraphs ago. At first glance it may seem like a direct attack on Magnus’s sexuality, but think over the explanation I gave for the line and it will make sense. And a lot of people know that the whole 'bi people fuck around a lot and are cheaters' thing is a stereotype.

Now, it may seem like I'm going off topic here, but bear with me. I couple of days ago, I watched this video by chance. (Tw for the aids crisis and lots of biphobia, not from the narrator, if you wanna watch the video). Basically, back in the 1980s, bisexual men were scapegoated for spreading aids to the straight community and were vilified by popular media as being promiscuous scepters who would cheat on their wives with gay men and then give aids to their wives. (Yikes 😬). And since bisexuality was practically unheard of before all this (several bisexual activists have stated that all this shit, though unfortunate, pulled bisexuality out of the closet), it's safe to assume that this is how those stereotypes came to be - through 1980s propaganda.

But living with this propaganda is... a very limiting experience. The people who leaned and unlearned and fought against this propaganda are mostly US Americans who grew up with it, either the actual propaganda itself or passed down by their parents. But like I said, it's a very limiting experience. US is but one country out of many, and even for those living in the USA there's a chance that they grew up in a very hush-hush environment. People who grew up hearing all these stereotypes will see it as biphobia, while people who didn't - like Alec, and me, and several other people will not. A lot of people grow up with absolutely no knowledge of the queer community, and chances are that they'll be incredibly confused when a stereotype is pointed out to them, and they often get no more explanation than 'this is a harmful stereotype'. Queer experiences aren't the same for everyone, and while I respect the people who see this as biphobia, they should recognize that there are many people who won't see it that way.

I have seen bisexual people say that Alec's words were biphobic, and I've also seen bisexual people say that they weren't. Thus, there is no clear consensus about whether or not Alec was being biphobic. And like I said earlier, Alec grew up far, far away from mundane anti-queer bigotry. He was essentially a clean slate when it came to knowledge of eer microagressions of any kind, because microagressions and stereotypes are often incredibly specific, don't have anything to do with a person's race/sexuality/gender, etc. and will make zero sense unless you know the history behind them. To Magnus, who lived through the anti-bisexual scapegoating, the words would've definitely stung, but Alec didn't even know the implications he would be making with this words! Of course, the impact is greater than intention, and I imagine Magnus would sit Alec down one day and talk about all this history with him.

And idk if I can even blame cc cause the history of bisexual men is RARELY ever talked about, atleast on the internet.

Also, this scene in cofa is the only instance where he can be interpreted to be biphobic. Nowhere else in all of tmi, and even tec, do we see Alec express hatred or disgust or microagression towards bisexual people. If this was seen in a repeating pattern from Alec, one could argue that he's biphobic... but he isn't. Some might point to some of his internal thoughts in trsom to argue otherwise, but I believe that actions are superior than thoughts.

There's also the thing about unlearning prejudices, but in Alec's case there was hardly anything to be unlearned. The only prejudices he did pick up on were against himself, through vague homophobic comments from Robert.

P.S if you've read this far, I am legally entitled to compensation for thinking of cofa Alec for 48 hours. Put your favorite Alec moments in my askbox cause I wanna focus on his good side now. 😎

But yeah, the main thing here is that Alec has grown from his mistakes, apologized, and hasn't repeated this behavior at all.

And lastly, I just wanted to add - I don't think all this was unintentional on the author's part. She's grown up with the us American queer community, and has mentioned that she has bisexual friends, who have no doubt faced prejudices because of these stereotypes. I think she was trying to condemn making such statements, but a lot of people don't read between the lines and end up misinterpreting it and make both the character and her to be biphobic.

So... TLDR; was what Alec said biphobic? Maybe. It depends on who you're talking to. Is Alec, as a person, biphobic? Nope. Not at all. 😌

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barbara-gordons-glasses · 3 years ago

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Since I’m bored, I’m going to be making a long rant about bisexuality, biphobia, inaccurate representation of bisexuality in the media, and just overall how I don’t feel accepted in my own “community”. To start off with, I’m a bisexual fifteen year-old girl who has a preference for women. I still love men, just in case any of you felt the reason to say otherwise.

Biphobia is the dislike of or prejudice against bisexual people. As you may or may not know, biphobia is everywhere, in more places than most people talk about when dealing with issues in our community and the world outside social media. What may surprise some of you is that not only are a lot of straight people biphobic, but LGBT members are as well. There are LGBT members and straight people who refuse to date bi women/men simply for the stereotypes others have pressed onto us (ex. disloyal, greedy, selfish, etc.).

While some people aren’t aware that they’re being biphobic, there are some people who are perfectly aware of what they’re saying/doing, and that’s the worst part of it. Maybe not the worst to some, but it hurts to hear one of your most loved family members say or do something hurtful and not even realize it. Or maybe they did, and just didn’t care enough to correct themselves.

Inaccurate representation of bisexuality in the media is a subject that isn’t talked about enough, because most of us are too busy about flags and who can say what slurs. Other than that, however, I’d like to talk about Glee, and the few biphobic moments that no one paid attention to.

Kurt and Blaine were talking about when Blaine kissed Rachel the other night, and Kurt was confused when Blaine agreed to go on a date with her, claiming for him to be “leading” her on. Blaine then explains that he actually felt something when kissing her, and would like to see where it goes. Kurt waves him off when Blaine questions if he’s bi, saying “Bisexuality is a stage gay guys go through in high school to feel normal.”

Santana Lopez and her soon-to-be girlfriend played by Demi Lovato were chatting at a restaurant about Santana’s breakup with Brittany, her bisexual ex. “I had a girlfriend - she was bi.” Santana said, and the scene I watched on YouTube cut shortly to Santana and Demi’s character as girlfriends. Demi’s character had something along the lines of, “I think you deserve a 100% Sapphic goddess,” which you may not know, but is extremely offensive towards bisexual women. Santana agreed, and then happily explained, “I finally have a girlfriend who isn’t straying for penis all the time!”

(It’s my personal opinion, but if you still like Santana and Kurt as characters after reading this, knowing they hadn’t apologized for what they said, then you’re trash. I’m not sugarcoating anything. I don’t care if Kurt or Santana were the reasons you felt comfortable being who you are. They are terrible people who only have popularity because of how awful they are to bisexuals and people from the Glee club in general.)

Other than the blatant biphobia in some shows, other media likes to cover theirs up by bringing a bi character into the show, but immediately watering down their label (ex. “I swing both ways”, “Maybe I’ll hook up with a hot guy at the party tonight! Or a girl?”). I understand that while some people don’t prefer labels, there is no reason that every bi character doesn’t like labels. Eleanor Shellstrop, for example (The Good Place). Throughout the show, she had no problem with saying bi, lesbian, pan, and gay casually. But although it’s implied that she’s bisexual, the words had never left her mouth, confirming her sexuality. There are some bisexual members of our community that don’t mind, and are simply happy for the representation, but I cannot express how long I’ve had these problems on my mind, and feel like they need to be talked about more.

If you’re looking for positive bisexual validation on websites like Tik Tok, Snapchat, or Tumblr, don’t. There are so many instances of biphobia on those websites (especially Tik Tok) that everyone ignores. Some of it is just blatant (example that I saw in a post - “I just feel like “bi” women in a heterosexual relationship shouldn’t have an opinion on our community”), while others are a little covered up by adding other common features in front of the sexuality (ex. “Oh, there go the cis white bi alt girls again!”). Because of this, I haven’t felt accepted in the community. Not since I first searched up the word ‘bisexual’ on Tik Tok and Tumblr. But the moment you search up ‘biphobia’ on either of those sites, the first videos that pop up are lesbians making posts about how “not everything is biphobic.” and then tagging the video as ‘bi’, ‘biphobic’, etc. And when they’re lesbians speaking against biphobia, the videos always have more views than actual bisexual people talking about biphobia. It’s disgusting, and the reason I hardly ever talk about bisexuality in public.

You are all free to comment or say whatever you’d like, but it will always be my opinion that there is nothing all that great about being apart of the LGBT community these days. We’re all pinned against each other, discussing who can say what slurs, complaining about flags, generalizing and stereotyping certain sexualities, and just overall showing our true colors behind the screen of a computer. There are children and teens in other countries being raped because their parents or legal guardians think it will “turn them straight”, but we’re here in America or anywhere else you live talking about meaningless things like the reasons I’d listed above. Flags, slurs, generalizations. It’s what makes me embarrassed and ashamed to be apart of such a “family” that has no real love for each other.

#biphobia #bisexual #bisexuality #lgbt #pride month #pride #LGBT+#bisexual discourse #biphobes i actually want you to read this and understand why youre trash <3

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dgcatanisiri · 3 years ago

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Tried to make a brief summary of the issues of Mass Effect Andromeda’s handling of queer men and how it relates to why we’re (broad use here) upset with the Legendary Edition failing to provide better representation than the originals, and it kinda turned in to what amounts to an open letter for BioWare.

So, what the heck, here it is.

A little personal background. I spent my high school life completely in the closet. After graduating, I had a new computer and the opportunity to play a new game. The game chosen was BioWare’s Jade Empire. Still a fairly recent release, and I was a big fan of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, also by BioWare. So, being a young gay man, still uncomfortable and uncertain of who I was, I was very excited when I got to play this game that would allow me to play a gay romance, a romance that featured two men. I burned through two playthroughs of the game within less than a week, enjoying that rush of acknowledgement that yes, gay guys could be the hero. It was a massive affirmation for me at the time, something that said that my sexuality was not going to prevent me from being the hero, which legitimately was a message that I felt like most media was giving me to that point, because gay men barely appeared in anything other than guest roles for an episode or two on a TV show, but certainly not in video games. That game, that experience... I’ve said for years that it had cemented me as a BioWare fan for life.

If I say that now, it is a statement with a few caveats.

The history of the failure of Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 to provide any male/male romances is well documented. I was excited, very eager to romance Kaidan Alenko in Mass Effect 3. But even then, I noticed that there were things that were lacking in the romance. It was noticeable, for instance, that the basic dialogue between male Shepard and female Shepard was unchanged, if either was starting a new romance with Kaidan. The thing that always felt... WRONG about that was that if I’d had the option to begin a romance with him in the first game, I would have. Yet there’s not even a bit of dialogue that even references that inability, no comment of “I didn’t think you were available,” or anything of the sort, nothing to say that, say, Shepard was interested in Kaidan at the time, but didn’t believe he’d be receptive, didn’t want to damage their friendship, something of the sort. There was even a cut in the romance scene, where female Shepard will sit in Kaidan’s lap before being lifted up and carried to the bed, but with male Shepard and Kaidan, just fades to black. And then in the Citadel DLC, while all the other pairings walked in to the casino arm in arm, male Shepard and Kaidan are leaving plenty of room between them. There’s also the absence of any cuddling as they return to the Normandy.

To say nothing of the lack of Steve Cortez during the story segments of Citadel – he is not part of the big team entrance to the apartment, just spontaneously appears in the lounge room. He doesn’t participate in the briefings, and he is not a casino date, despite being part of the assembled team. Cortez also suffers from the fact that his romance spends so much time on how he needs to move on from the death of his husband, Shepard can come across as predatory towards him, trying to push him out of his grief and his pants. Due to the lateness of his arrival in the story, in game three, as opposed to game one or two, there is significantly less time to establish him as a person – beyond his past as a pilot and the death of his husband, we gain almost no concept of his personality or personal history.

I bring all of this up to help set the stage of what was expected when Mass Effect Andromeda was nearing release. Mass Effect had been full of problems of representation of queer men specifically (not that they were perfect on the count of female/female relationships either, because there’s plenty to talk about there, but as I’m not a lesbian or bisexual woman, I don’t feel comfortable talking about their experiences for them). While there were flaws, Dragon Age, what is often considered Mass Effect’s sister franchise, HAD managed to provide male/male romances in every iteration of that franchise.

In fact, considering that Dragon Age’s most recent installment, Dragon Age Inquisition, had been put out with a lot of fanfare about the first gay male companion, who was considered rather popular in the fandom, and the game itself receiving the Game of the Year award that year, indicating that, if there was any risk in the business sense of providing representation of queer men, it was negligible at most in the bottom line of that game, the attitude of a lot of gay men in the lead up to Andromeda’s release was some variation of “okay, Mass Effect has been flawed, but BioWare’s learned from their past mistakes, and they’re coming off the heels of a hugely successful game that had a gay character whose gayness was front and center in his storyline... We can expect that things will be fine, and we don’t have to worry.” That was the dominant attitude I found in a lot of my queer-oriented spaces.

But we started getting uncomfortable as the developers remained cagey about romance options in Andromeda – there were Twitter responses to “we’re concerned about Mass Effect’s history of gay representation, we would like to know about the options” that came out as “we checked and yep! They’re there!” These responses came across as flippant and even tone-deaf – the reason that the question was being asked was because of prior failures to be included, and not simply a desire to get all the details before launch.

As the trailers started coming out, the questions continued from the fans, and the response from the developers... continued to be uncomfortable. When asked directly for a listing of romances prior to release, the response was that the developers wanted players to learn as they played, that “the fun is in experiencing it!” This was a specific response when it was learned that the romance options could be flirted with regardless of orientation, but they would shut it down. Despite the fact that the trailers DID include content from certain romances – specifically, the male Ryder/Cora and male Ryder/Peebee romances.

This was uncomfortable for a lot of queer players like myself because it spoke to a lack of consideration of what it is like to be queer. In many places, it is a serious question of safety to even put yourself out there to find a partner, to flirt with someone openly unless you are already certain that there is a chance for a positive response. There are places where a queer person flirting with the wrong person can get them harassed, assaulted, even killed for doing so. Even in the safety of a virtual construct of video games, these are honed instincts that queer people have developed. And no matter how many times we would say this to the developers, no one seemed to understand. Likewise, the fact that the trailers felt free to show off heterosexual romances, but not queer ones felt... questionable.

Then, finally, firm details started coming out, and... There were problems. Early data-mining said that there was an even split of romances between orientations. But there was a bit of discomfort around the reveal that the gay characters, Suvi and Gil, were limited to the ship, rather than being companions who would accompany Ryder on missions. There is a history of companions being given more involved storylines and involvement than secondary characters. It also didn’t help the disappointment from queer people who’d been eager for Cora or Liam as romances, who were firmly established as straight (Cora herself had a popular lesbian following).

That discomfort increased when it came out further that, ACTUALLY, Jaal would not be available for Male Ryder. This caused a lot of upset. Now it was a case where there was NO M/M squadmate romance option. This on top of the group of fans who were uncomfortable with the idea that, in a sci-fi series, gay men couldn’t romance an alien, while this had become a staple of the series, considering Liara, the character from a species described as equivalent to Star Trek green-skinned Orion girls, had been available for straight men and lesbian/bi women from ME1, and straight women got in on the act with Garrus and Thane in ME2, on top of straight men also getting Tali.

This got worse when the achievement listing for the game was released and there was an achievement for “romancing three different characters.” Meaning that it was absolutely impossible for a gay man to play the game and get this achievement without playing a sexuality other than his own.

This is why I led with my experience with Jade Empire, why it was so affirming to me. Because to hear all this, ten years later, to see what had been so affirming to me a decade prior be functionally dismissed, be shown to take a secondary position at best... It hurt.

And the game proper did not help that feeling at all.

So first we meet Gil Brodie. Engineer of the Tempest. One of the first things we learn about him is that he has a close friendship with a woman named Jill. And then he immediately tells us that one) she is a fertility specialist, and two) she “says [he’s] part of the problem” because he won’t have kids the natural way. This is immediately setting off red flags to me – I can think of plenty of my friendships where we give one another grief for various things, but I would never think of introducing any of them to someone else with that fact. So my reflexive thought in this situation is “what kind of a friend is this really?”

And then, as the game goes on... This is the only thing that Gil’s conversations involve, the prospect of having kids. We do not learn much more about him, just have him talking about considering the idea. The lock-in for his romance requires Ryder to meet Jill, who Gil again says that she will talk his ear off about his “civic duty” to reproduce, a fact that makes those earlier red flags wave higher and more furiously, because who DOES that to a total stranger? And this is passed off as being “charming.” This leads to the culmination of the romance, where Gil says that Jill has decided she wants to get pregnant and she wants Gil to be the dad.

There’s... A LOT going on here, so let me work through this. First, one of the few things Gil says as a bit of establishing his character is that he is impulsive, that he joined the Andromeda Initiative, the journey from the Milky Way galaxy to the Andromeda galaxy without really thinking through what it would mean, that it was a one-way journey with no way to back out once he’d gotten there. So this is already saying to me that this is not a person who really SHOULD be a parent, at least at this point in his life.

We also get a couple of emails from him in-game that paint him as putting in thirty-six hour workdays into the engines on the Tempest, that he cares about and puts a lot of time into those engines. So when I think about him as a father, I see him having to give up something he’s deeply passionate about to do it, because the Tempest is certainly no place to raise a child – they can’t exactly put a playpen in the cargo hold, for example.

This would be one of the first things that I would think of as a discussion element, but... it’s not there. All that we get is a couple of casual comments about how Gil should know that bringing a child into the world is a big thing, something that shouldn’t be done lightly. But this is framed as Ryder questioning Gil’s fitness to be a parent at all, rather than questioning if he’s thinking this through and having considered this enough to be ready to take on this responsibility, or if it’s even something that he even wants.

Because that’s the other big thing here – this is not Gil’s idea. This is not something that he makes clear is his desire. No, it’s Jill who has decided that she wants to get pregnant and use Gil’s sperm. For all that he matters in this whole thing, he might as well be a turkey baster. He’s basically an accessory in his own story, because he goes in to this with all the passion of a math equation: “The Andromeda Initiative is a colonization effort. Therefore, the idea is to have babies. Therefore, I should find some way to reproduce.” This isn’t him having a passion or desire to have kids, just it being “something you do.”

This is, genuinely, a failure to understand the character who was being written. Gil’s writing reeks of having been written by someone who does not know what they are talking about. There is an element to the gay experience that is not innate but learned. When we realize that having children is not a thing that will just happen, that if we want this to happen, it will require a lot of additional steps, there are many who will simply say “this isn’t for me, this is more work than I’m willing to put in to for this.”

Now, Gil could have been someone who had decided it was worth it, but that butts up against the idea of him being impulsive, that he doesn’t think things through. There is no time given to focusing on the reason he decides this is the right choice for him, to the point that many players felt that this was not Gil’s decision but something that Jill was pushing, that she expected him to jump on her command. Because we have so little of Gil, as a character and an individual, but plenty of him talking up her, this “friendship” feels toxic to many.

Just about everyone I have ever spoken with about Gil is deeply uncomfortable that literally, the only way that he will not have a child at this point is if a romanced Ryder stops him – if I am playing a game where I don’t romance him, I actively just stop interacting with him at a certain point so that this never comes up, because this does not come across as happy. It comes across as forcing a gay man into a heteronormative experience to satisfy some traditional idea of “man and woman, raising kids.”

And, as the cherry on top, if you do tell Gil that you’re not comfortable having kids – a very real thing, whether gay or straight – then, unlike other romances, Gil and Ryder do not share a kiss at the finale of the game. And, during the last conversations on Meridian, the only thing Gil even brings up is Jill being pregnant, whether or not it’s his child.

This is what “representation of gay men” amounted to in Mass Effect Andromeda. A homophobic story that was about a gay experience written by someone who is not a part of this community and does not know or understand the experience personally, going through the motions of development when really, all that is cared about is the end result. To say that most of the gay men I know who have played this game find this homophobic is to undersell the point.

It doesn’t help that, of all the Tempest romances, Gil also clocks in with the least amount of romance exclusive material – a few flirts, the romance lock in and scene, and being able to stop Gil from having kids. Other than that, his friendship and his romance are virtually identical.

Speaking of, the romance scene consists of a make out session that fades to black, before coming back in with Ryder and Gil, shot from about shoulders up, briefly wrapping up their conversation that preceded the fade to black. This is noteworthy when the heterosexual romances between Ryder and their human love interests, as well as Peebee and Jaal, the former having a similar body model to naked human women, just blue, and Jaal, who is naked at other points in the game, have much more involved romance scenes – Cora’s in specific received special attention.

All of this, individually, may have just been reflective of time crunch and other external pressures – we all understand the realities of game development, that for all the ambitions that go in, when the deadlines are nearing, something has to give. But taken collectively... The kindest question is to ask why all of the “give” happened in regards to the gay man?

The end result with Gil honestly feels like he was written in response to the bad faith arguments that had come up in the period after the name for the game was revealed and it was made clear that the game would follow a colonization effort. There were a contingent of people who said that “there shouldn’t be gay people coming along, a colonization effort needs to reproduce.” This is a bad faith argument from homophobes, trying to justify why they don’t want gay people in “their” games. In answering their question, the question they only “ask” in order to explain why they don’t want to have gay people in the game without saying that, it comes across as catering the gay content for a heterosexual audience. It should go without saying that this is a bad position to take.

So, that’s Gil. What about Reyes? Well, Reyes himself is bound to a single planet, which, again, points to a minimizing of how much content he will even get, since his content can only be accessed on this single planet. Likewise, Reyes, as a character, is someone who falls in to several old, tired tropes with regards to bisexual men – he is a shady, untrustworthy character, in this instance literally a criminal, meant to be evocative of the “dashing rogue” archetype. This is a characterization that has often been BioWare’s go-to with regards to bisexual men, because we see this archetype drawn on in Jade Empire’s Sky, Dragon Age Origins’ Zevran, Dragon Age 2’s Anders, and even elements exist in Dragon Age Inquisition’s Dorian (even if he is a gay man). It’s a well that BioWare has frequently tapped when it comes to a romance option for queer men, to the point that it starts to feel like BioWare in general believes that this IS what queer men are.

There’s also the questionable portrayal of Reyes that leads to a description of the trope “the depraved bisexual,” an explicitly bisexual character who uses sex and sexuality as a manipulative tool, that they treat others as simply there to be their toys. Over in Dragon Age Inquisition, one of the romance options was specifically NOT made bisexual in order to avoid this trope, but Reyes himself seems to be a candidate for that trope all the same.

All this, and, again, the romance options for gay men were unequal to those for everyone else. This prompted the campaign #MakeJaalBi – Jaal was, notably, the character initially assumed to be the bisexual male companion, and on release, his romance was heterosexual exclusive. But datamining revealed that there was code for him to be romanced by male Ryder. Indeed, on release, it was noteworthy that Jaal could not even be flirted with by male Ryder. Liam had a distinct turndown for male Ryder, a couple of them, depending on when Ryder flirts with him. Jaal had no such turndown.

And this worked. BioWare released the patch for Andromeda that gave Jaal a bisexual romance. However, this was the only change that Mass Effect Andromeda received in regards to the issues of the romances before support for the game ended. While it was seen as an improvement, it was also questioned why this was the only change, when... Well, I spent the better part of two pages outlining the problems of Gil’s portrayal.

(I feel I would be remiss to not mention there was also a character, Hainley Abrams, who would, upon interacting with her, proceed to deadname herself to Ryder, as if that is the only way to establish that a transgender person is trans. This was also changed in a patch after the trans community complained, and, in conjunction with the above, led more than a few people to wonder if the Andromeda script had been looked over by any queer sensitivity readers, given the earlier issues with Gil. This does go out of the scope of everything else in this discussion, but it is worth mentioning.)

When Mac Walters says players will talk about how Shepard is each of theirs, that every individual player approaches Shepard as being “their” Shepard, he isn’t wrong. He says the characters, and the relationships we have with the characters is the heart and soul of the series, he isn’t wrong. And yet... When I play the trilogy, my heart and soul are being torn apart, because I do not get to see myself in the trilogy. I am not there in this story, at least for two thirds of the way. And in that third that I am there, I feel like I am cared about less than my counterparts who are heterosexual.

The idea that “making” characters available for same sex romance changes them is like saying that there is some inherent difference in a person because of their sexualities. While it’s true that the experiences of queer people does offer different perspectives on matters, it does not fundamentally alter the person, the individual that we are. It does not change our heart and soul. Restoring the bisexuality of characters like Jack, Jacob, Ashley, Thane, or Tali is not changing who they are. Making Kaidan bisexual in ME3 did not change who he was, and restoring a romance between him and male Shepard in ME1 would not change him either.

Every game has some cut content surrounding queer content specifically, and a great deal of that content is specifically for gay players like myself. I said at the beginning that I once thought of myself as a BioWare fan for life, but that now comes with caveats. The caveats are pretty simple – while the games produced by BioWare once felt affirming, now they feel like they’re only grudgingly allowing me to be there. That if I must be there, I should just take the scraps I’m given and be content with that, rather than being treated as an equal.

I like to think that this is not the message that the people at BioWare wish to impart to their players. I like to believe BioWare’s statements of wanting to be an inclusive and welcoming environment for their players, regardless of gender, race, sexuality, orientation, whatever identity and label one chooses. But based on the experience of the last four games, of the Legendary Edition perpetuating the homophobia of over a decade ago... I have a hard time believing that.

BioWare games once made me feel like I was equal to the straight heroes across my media. Unfortunately, I don’t feel that way about their games anymore. Not when, after having the opportunity to restore the bisexuality of Kaidan – of multiple characters, really – in the Legendary Edition, I am still being told that offering representation for people like me is something that only comes grudgingly.

And if that’s what I see now... What does it say about what the future of the franchise will offer? If every game in this series involves fighting for content that, in particular, heterosexual players will see offered as the rule, what motivates me to want to continue to be invested and involved in this franchise?

#bioware critical #dg rants #another angry queer rant #make mass effect inclusive #make mele inclusive #makemeleinclusive

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kaypeace21 · 4 years ago

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I literally cannot wait until season 4 so that mileven being endgame can prove ur crazy ass wrong 🙄

lmao... spoken like someone who hasn’t watched a single movie said to inspire S4 . I CAN’T WAIT FOR S4 XD

Mike saying on the phone “El, sorry not interested “ (IN S3) was foreshadowing. In s4 movies- ‘swingers’ the guy name mike hangs up on his ex who wants to get back together so he can talk to his new love interest (Will) -hangs up on his ex as she says “I love-“. Then in ‘splash’ he breaks up with his gf on the phone says “do I love you?well what about you?” To dodge the question (then yells at a family member ease dropping on the other line -Karen). And they break up on the phone. And he tells a friend later he never loved her.

In ‘altered states’ and ‘children of paradise’ the characters admit the people they dated were being used by them and the whole time they were pretending it was the Will character. In altered states they say “she’s crazy about him and he’s crazy.” The guy even has episodes and sees another world just like Will. The women even says “ no matter how much I pretended it was him I just felt empty cause it wasn’t . It’s crazy.”and the friend says “I think that’s how it’s supposed to be.” (in ‘twister’ and ‘it’s a wonderful life) the mother/aunt tells a childhood friend they other person is “crazy about” them not their current partner (we love Karen) . In ‘drop dead fred’ the guy named Mikey breaks up with his wife before the start of the film and gets with the “crazy” childhood friend he knew since he was 5. Also lmao in sky high . The future couple knew each other since the 1st grade. And she gushes about the character named Will. And her friend says “so that’s was the first grade... but when did you fall in love with him?” Her: “no... pfft. I don’t love Will... is it that obvious 😞?”

The exes constantly call him and are cray in the films (el stalking and never apologizing for spying. And mileven dancing to a song about stalking ‘every breath you take’ wasn’t a coincide). 2 movies the ex saying they’ll get back together and their new relationships are “just phases” etc ( waynes world, high fidelity, dumb and dumber). Saying they’re still together when they aren’t (wayne’s world). Loads of movies had the crazy ex sabotage, call constantly, and flirt despite the exes discomfort and repeatedly saying it’s over (despite not loving them and just be possessive ).2 movies (clueless and birdcage) had a girl (one being an ex) hitting on the gay guy, despite knowing he was gay . El gets over it once the supernatural plot kicks in -like s2, but yeah ...

In ‘fisher king’ a man and women who work at a video store tries to set up the 2 characters who no one expected to end up together. The girl who helps (Robin) says “stranger things have happened.” And the guy who was set up also hallucinated a mythical creature (like Will). In highschool musical Troy and gabriel say it’s like they known eachother since kindergarten- and their 2 friends sabotage it saying “we need to save them from themselves” (my guess Dustin and Lucas) .Also in ‘swingers’ the guy friends mocked mike for “being gay” (he wasn’t but they did - while trying to set him up with girls). In wet hot American summer the 2 guy friends try to set up their friend with girls and even say as a joke he’s “gay” for writing letters (cough to Will) instead of hitting on girls. And in that movie he was gay the whole time while they were trying to set him up with chicks. 2 guys at a dinner table (birdcage) hear homophobic comments and the Mike character spills water and tries to change the subject to football which he knows nothing about (s2 ref with Mike and his dad). (in wedding crashers) the painter guy is also called a “homo” and storms away upset from dinner. In ‘don’s plum’ one of the friends outs a his male friend on purpose as bi at dinner.

This is only a taste... lmao. There’s so many other byler hints and mileven burns.But I’m saving that for the full s4 analysis. Mileven is/will be dead as F*CK . I can’t wait for s4- the Duffers have been setting up these burns for a while. XD

#byler #byeler #anti mileven

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woogurl · 4 years ago

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i’ve been meaning to make this post a while ago, but i was uncertain if now was the right time to do it, it’s something that’s extremely controversial, but yes...

i decided to make a post regarding what i think woosan’s sexuality is, now i figured it was bad to just assume their sexuality but people assume all or at least most of the male/female kpop idols are straight anyway by default. which i don’t think is bad or illogical, seeing as most people are straight statistically.

not gonna lie, ateez is one of those groups that give me mad gay vibes tho. however, i won’t be analyzing the others as i don’t really watch much of their individual behavior or content, i think you should only make these when you’ve watched enough of their behavior.

as you know, i’m a woosan enthusiast, and a woo stan, but i’m not gonna just analyze their relationship, which i think is sufficient proof enough, but i’ve compiled everything that has led me to the conclusion that san is either bi(with male preference) or gay, and woo is bi.

lastly, i want to say just because someone is homophobic or really opposed to skinship with the same sex does not mean they’re automatically straight. sometimes it’s a coping mechanism, and just because they’re feminine, comfortable with their masculinity, support LGBT+, or okay with skinship with the same sex doesn’t mean their gay.

sometimes there really are NO signs.

just look at all of the idols people assumed were gay. momo/heechul, baekhyun/taeyeon, hani, kai(though mostly considered him to be bi). anyhow, my point is you just never know. lol

now, i’ll stop my rambling and get started. first let’s start with

S A N

now, i’ll be honest, i’ve always thought san was gay because how reserved he was and how shy and sweet he was around the members during their predebut days. i just felt like he was maybe shy because he hadn’t come to terms with he sexuality. i mean when i look at san during predebut, he literally was like a baby, and his mannerisms was so small and reserved. even his body was so tiny and fragile. however, this was because san was naturally skinny and it had always been a complex for him. in which he said he had a tough time gaining weight.

what we know about san’s former lifestyle is that he was a church boy, a farmer, a wannabe gamer and a freaking black belt in taekwondo and his dad was an owner of a taekwondo studio, he was one of the most popular kids, he had a pretty good relationship with his parents or at least now he does and his grandparents took good care of him when his parents didn’t.

but san still had low self-esteem. why? i really don’t know, but i would hazard a guess that it was because of his sexuality(this is just an assumption guys, not a fact). now remember san was part of the church, and he joined because a friend asked him too. they probably asked him because they figured he liked to sing and dance. although i think san was shy and self-conscious, i don’t that he was self-conscious about his abilities as you could see he did go to the church to sing and dance in front of a bunch of people. i think he had low-self esteem because of who he may have realized that he was.

here are some examples of what i mean.

there’s something that san continuously repeats and that is to learn to love himself, know his worth, and just simply love who he is. and i think that’s one of the reasons that san didn’t like church is because it went against who he was and is. if you watch videos of him in the church he really looks like he doesn’t want to be there. he looks so uncomfortable. he doesn’t just look like “ah, this is boring there’s nothing to do” but he looks more like he’s displaced. like he’s NOT supposed to be there. we learn later that san isn’t religious instead.

don’t you find it interesting that he made a direct correlation to his belief in god to his belief in himself. it was like he was saying, even though i don’t believe in god i believe in who i am. like i trust that who i am is correct.

another part of this video that i find interesting is the moment that they talk about how much they value each other(woo and san).

S: You’re cool and

S: I honestly

S: Now I can sincerely

S: To the people around me or my relatives

S: I can proudly say that my friend is Wooyoung!

S: You're that kind of friend

S: To that point where I'm not embarrassed

S: Or rather say you're my friend that's worth showing off!

S: I think this is more than enough!

a lot of people in the comments of this video said that they felt like this was a confession and i agree. i remember feeling odd at how san worded this, the first time his sexuality didn’t even cross my mind. i was just like oh, he’s probably embarrassed because woo’s so loud and shit. lol. but now it doesn’t make much since to me. the vibes here are very serious, and we all know that even though woo can be loud and noisy many atiny’s forget that he is also extremely mature. especially when he needs to be. not only that but san has said woo is very respecful to his elders, so i don’t think he would of been embarrassed by woo’s on camera behavior. i noticed before san said this he hesitated a bit, like should i say this or how should i word this. it was super sweet.

now, let’s talk about san describing his ideal type. in which he says the outside doesn’t matter and that he wants someone who is kind-hearted and warm. he wants someone who’s good to him.

there are a lot of moments translated where he used feminine pronouns, but others have clarified and said he did not mention any pronouns.

let’s also talk about that conversation he had with wooyoung where they talked about what kind of guys they liked. where woo was like, “i like cool guys” and san was like, “i like both cool and sweet guys” then there’s silence because they probably realize that it’s considered “weird”. then san says, “i’ll be quiet”. i honestly felt bad like ;c. he probably felt the need to stop talking about it because he realized that people would prob think that it was gay.

he also sang troye sivan my youth, but i honestly don’t think that it’s too relevant seeing as many kpop idols appreciate troye sivan. but it’s worth noting i suppose.

lastly, body language there’s just a lot of moments that can’t be explained. now i completely understand that korea is tote fine with males being close with one another but there are just some moments, that i believe, i don’t care how comfy you are with the same sex is questionable. lmfao.

mind you seconds before this san was just minding his own business but his expression completely changed when he saw woo seduc---i mean dancing in front of him. idc what anyone says, a straight man would never eye fuck another man like this. lmfao. there’s lust in those eyes and you can’t tell me there isn’t. san was literally checking him out.

san being completely comfortable with having his no-no on woo’s ass, these are both very intimate parts of the body. honestly, the simple fact that san likes spooning woo from behind all the time is suspect to me. lol. especially with the expressions he gives at times.

san’s reaction when woo gets too close to his face, he doesn’t flinch. he’s also clearly looking at woo’s lips. there’s also another moment like this where san becomes so flustered that he has to look away for a second. lmfao.

when i think two of the other members(i don’t remember who) had to do a couple dance. what they did was completely tame, but woosan over here took it up several notches and started dancing like they were at a gay bar. no one told them to do it, they just did.

next i want to point out how comfortable they are with the shipping. i already mentioned this in my woosan relationship post but they’re comfortable with the shipping, then i figured it was because they were comfortable with the relationship that they had. but now, i think they don’t mind it because they’re proud of who they are. it’s not just them being comfortable with woosan, but with their sexuality as well. so they’re like telling us we’re woosan but we’re also okay with our sexuality kind of thing.

lastly, i want to point out body language again for san, and this is honestly the ONLY reason why i believe he is somewhat bi and not completely gay. the way he interacts with fans. i know you’re all gonna say well, that’s his job. but, he seems to want to impress his fans or look good for them. san’s confidence has changed quite a bit and as yeosang once said, san’s kind of like a tough guy now, as mingi said he’s changed the most since debut. i think the reason satan--i mean san has become so powerful, and a sexy demon on stage is because he’s confident in who he is now and it really shows. i think san wanted to break those stereotypes of who he was and show people that he wasn’t weak or shy, but manly and sexy and the best in bed. but on stage he loves showing off his muscles and how flexible his hips are and even on vlive. most of the fans are women and i think to myself why would he do this if he was completely gay?

i just don’t think a completely gay man would not want to appeal to women all that much. then again it could possibly be because he enjoys getting those compliments and that’s what fuels his self esteem. it could be the compliments from the women and not the women themselves. i’m not completely sure, but the reason why he does this does matter. he likes receiving compliments not just from the fans but from anyone really. so i don’t know if the reason he shows off his manliness to fans is because he wants to appeal to women OR if he just wants to appeal to his self esteem. which is possible. you guys let me know what you think.

W O O Y O U N G

there really isn’t as much content for me to work with when it comes to woo because he refuses to post, but i’m so confident that this boy is bi that it’s not even funny. there’s not much predebut info, there’s not much info about his ideal type.

sighs

yo girl will work with what she’s got. now, woo has only playfully mentioned his ideal type. in which he usually automatically answers yunho. do i actually believe that? no. lmfao. i think woo was smart enough to have yunho as his default answer for this question really. instead of actually being attracted to yunho i think woo just admires yunho because he always answers yunho for a member he would switch bodies with as well. he always says yunho because he’s tall, fun, funny, handsome and has a nice figure.

but as you’ve all probably noticed he doesn’t really seem physically attracted to yunho, but you know(HAHA) who he is definitely physically attracted to?

seonghwa, without a doubt, i’m saying this with my whole fucking chest, okay? i have no doubt in my mind that woo is or at least was physically attracted to seonghwa.

that full post i made with woo trying to kiss seonghwa for the 100th time is all the evidence you need, but i’ll keep y’all entertained. i want you all to understand that seonghwa has said that woo kisses him so much off camera that he’s used to it, the fact that the members gasped so hard that they almost caught flies was mehmehable.

now you all will probably say that woo just loves kisses and that’s fine but he seems to want to kiss on the mouth too and that’s pretty gay. lol.

he literally looked at seonghwa’s mouth before he dived in for a kiss. cheek kisses and mouth kisses are two whole different vibes. not to mention he tried to kiss him again during this vlive and san. woo has literally tried kissing all of the members okay? lmfao. he’s just way too comfortable with it in my opinion.

woo has been hungry for seonghwa, and he knows it, we can also talk about how he has said twice that seonghwa has a pretty ass. which he isn’t wrong about. lmfao. we could also talk about that moment where woo literally looked down seonghwa’s shirt.

anyway, while i do think woo was physically attracted to him, i’m pretty sure he has some kind of intimate relationship with san now. i don’t wanna add those moments because it would just me repeated what i wrote for woosan relationship analyzes, woo has also shown a lot of interest in women during their america tour and he’s repeatedly gone to the same fancam of some women. it’s important to mention woo is naturally a flirt but he seems to flirt with the members as well, according to yeosang who said this during their christmas vlive. jongho has also said he wanted woo’s ability to flirt. so my best guess is that he probably flirted with the members in the past.

there’s also the clip of him telling a fanboy to go after the guy that he likes, and he was also surprised to hear that he had fanboys, and he seemed interested to know this information other than that i don’t have much evidence, but i think woo’s body language off camera with the members is plenty evidence really. lol. there’s just not many straight men i know who would be inclined to cling to another male as much as woo does.

anyway, i’m tired this was my woosan sexuality post. remember these aren’t facts just observations and opinions. ;)

#ateez #wooyoung #woosan #seonghwa #san #choi san

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mercuryonparklane · 4 years ago

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An attempt at objectivity on the topic of Tayliz/a summary: Part 2

(Kind of...)

I’ve been busy with irl stuff the last week, so I haven’t been posting much lately. I finally have a day where I have nothing else to do and I’ve been considering making a post about where I currently stand on Tayliz/Gaylor in general for a while, so I thought now would be a good time to do that.

Disclaimer: I don’t know any of these people personally and this is all my own interpretation of publicly available information. I apologize for the length of this post...

I’ve been a Taylor fan since 2006 and a Gaylor since at least early 2009 when I was posting fanfics on LiveJournal (I stopped writing rpf a long time ago, btw). I’ve been in and out of the Gaylor fandom since then. I’ve created and deleted multiple blogs/accounts in the past 12+ years. I was mostly active between 2009 and 2015, but I did a lot of lurking during that time and only engaged when I felt I had something to contribute. 2015/2016 was a crazy time and I was going through some of my own stuff, so I stopped following Gaylor as closely for a while. I listened to reputation and Lover, I read the Gaylor theories, made a couple comments, and moved along. When folklore was released it drew me back in.

I created this blog in September 2020, before I even had an inkling that Liz might be more than just another name that has been thrown into the potential exes list, along with Claire C. and Kellie (I don’t believe either of those two had anything beyond friendship with Taylor). I had never looked into it too much because it seemed like there was not as much information as there was for the main 3 (Emily, Dianna, and Karlie). Now, after researching Tayliz for 5 months, I believe there is at least as much, if not more, to go on as there is for the main 3.

As for Taymily, I believe that, at the very least, Taylor had a massive crush on Emily. I don’t like to get too in-depth about that because there is a very suspect age gap. I’m not saying that those things don’t happen, but I will reiterate my statement from an earlier post that I am not comfortable essentially accusing someone of committing a crime when all that can be deciphered is that Taylor seemed to really care about her. I do think there are multiple songs about Emily.

I also believe that Taylor did date Dianna and possibly had some kind of relationship with Karlie. I think both of these possible relationships are long over at this point. Taylor may have been looking back on those relationships (along with others) in her last few albums.

I still personally think it is possible that Taylor is a lesbian, but there are reasons to think she might be bi and I understand why people think that she is. I don’t really talk about the guys Taylor may have dated, but I will say that, to me, all of the boyfriends she had after high school seem like beards. I could be wrong, of course. There are way too many signs that she is queer for me to not think that she is at least bi.

There have always been sapphic themes in Taylor’s music, even in early songs like “Me And Britney” and “Angelina”. Her entire discography is littered with sapphic themes. In recent years, she has seemed to hint at being some form of queer in other ways as well. This has all been examined by others, so I won’t get into that in this post.

Anyway, on to Tayliz…

There is some compelling “circumstantial evidence” suggesting that there may have been something beyond friendship between Tayliz (a lot of this was covered in my first post and all of the information has been mentioned at some point on my blog):

They met multiple times between December 2006 and February 2009, when Liz first performed with Taylor, but it is hard to tell how well they knew each other at that time. Based on the information available, I actually think they might have even been close, or at least friendly, before Liz was hired, but I could be wrong.

The “official” story is that Liz met Taylor at a meet and greet in December 2006 and again in July 2007. She asked if she could sing for Taylor and Taylor gave her advice, including suggesting that she enter a talent contest and that she should move to Nashville. Some accounts say that Liz sang for Taylor in her dressing room, but I have never found a source for this part of the story.

Taylor wrote the following sentence about Liz in her blog on February 5, 2008, after performing on the competition show that Liz was a contestant on: “It sounds strange, but there was always something different about her that stuck out in my mind”. That is super suspect to me...

Taylor was the only musician to perform on the show, btw (although they did have the touring cast of HSM on the next week). Taylor allegedly said, during the interview portion of her appearance, that she knew Liz and that Liz had gone to “all” of her shows and meet and greets… whatever that means.

According to Liz, she moved to Nashville in June 2008 and sometime within the next 6 months she received a call to audition as a backup singer, but did not know for which artist she was auditioning. I feel like it would be an incredible coincidence that Taylor suggested she move to Nashville two years earlier, they met multiple times after that, and randomly Liz got a call to audition for Taylor without knowing it was for her within 6 months of moving there. I don’t know, maybe I’m being too skeptical, but it seems almost more of a reach to say that Taylor didn’t somehow have a hand in her getting that audition.

Liz already seemed very comfortable around Taylor in that picture with George Strait taken on the day of her first show with the band in February 2009.

At the one-off shows after Liz joined the band, there was a little skit between Taylor, Liz, and Grant during YBWM, where Grant played the love interest and Liz played the “Cheer Captain”. There was even a talking bit. During the Australia one-off shows, there was a talking bit before F&A where Taylor introduced Liz and they had a little conversation that ended similarly to the one Taylor has with the interviewer during the Fearless Tour. After this, they rarely interacted on stage.

Taylor seemed to allow Liz’s input during the auditions for the Fearless Tour dancers, two months after she joined the band, and Taylor ended up hiring two of her friends.

Liz went with Taylor to visit Abigail at her university in Kansas two months after joining the band.

Taylor took Liz with her to see Britney Spears’ Circus Tour show in Chicago right after the Kansas trip.

Taylor said in an interview for Oprah’s website, released in May 2009, that Australia and Lawrence, KS were her two favorite places to visit, which just so happen to be two of the places she had recently been with Liz.

The fact that they shared a hotel room in London a few months after Liz joined the band. Caitlin, who had been in the band for a while at that point, and her mom were both there for that trip. Maybe Taylor was just happy to be able to hang out with another woman around her age. It seems strange, but it could be a completely platonic situation.

Taylor and the band, including Liz, recorded a cover of “American Girl” by Tom Petty (one of Liz’s favorite artists) in front of the Rose Garden in Portland, Oregon in May 2009. The secret message for “Sparks Fly” is “Portland, Oregon” and she mentions the Rose Garden in “The Lucky One”.

Taylor mentions going to dinner with Liz, seemingly just the two of them, in her vlog from May 29, 2009, which was around Liz’s birthday (May 27).

The amount of Liz content in the vlogs. Plus, the choice to put the line “I like where you sleep, when you sleep next to me” right before showing Liz sleeping on a couch (this was the trip where they shared a hotel room, which does make that fact more suspect, imo) and including the song “She (For Liz)” in another vlog, in which she dedicates a whole section to Liz’s habit of falling asleep “All. The. Time.”

In fact, in both of those vlogs, which were posted a year apart from each other (May 2009 and April 2010), Taylor wears a black dot shirt, in clips that include only her and Liz, that is similar to the one she wore in the IKYWT mv.

Honestly, just go watch the video she made for Emily and then watch the vlogs after Liz joined the band… I just get a similar vibe in the clips she chose to include of both women.

They went to a Paramore concert together the weekend before Taylor hosted SNL in November 2009. At the concert, they were filmed by other attendees dancing next to each other on the balcony. One of the songs they were filmed dancing to is “That’s What You Get” and Taylor asked Hayley to perform that song with her (and the band, including Liz) at one of the Nashville shows on the SN Tour in 2011. In November 2019, Liz released her own song called “That’s What You Get” that sounds like it could be the opposite side of the relationship much of Red is about (and a couple other Taylor songs from other albums).

In Taylor’s Glamour interview published on 10/5/2010, she mentions that she designed the two guest rooms at her Nashville condo with Caitlin and Liz in mind.

After tweeting about attending the Katy P. concert in Dublin with Taylor (and Grant and Caitlin) someone asked Liz what her favorite KP song was and she responded “Thinking Of You”. This is suspect because at the time Liz did have a bf, but she may have just liked the song and didn’t necessarily relate to it personally.

There are tweets from people who are either not really well-known or aren’t in the industry at all that mention Taylor and Liz hanging out outside of touring. They are mentioned together in quite a few tweets actually. They seemed to have a good number of mutual friends during that time (spring/summer 2009-fall 2012). After Liz left the band, Taylor stopped hanging out with most of those people, while Liz continues to maintain some of those friendships to this day. This could be explained by the fact that Taylor began spending less time in Nashville.

One such friend is the photographer who Taylor hired for Red. She is actually a longtime friend of Liz. Supposedly she took some photos of Liz that Taylor saw and Taylor hired her after that. There are some pictures from Taylor’s Red photoshoot that are similar to Liz’s photos.

There are rumors that Liz was fired, but the “official” story is that she left to pursue her own music.

Liz did not wish Taylor a happy birthday on twitter in 2012, which she had done in previous years. She did not tweet @ or mention Taylor for almost a year. Taylor didn’t respond to any of her tweets or mention her until October 2014.

Some of the songs Liz released in late 2012/early 2013 have similar lyrics/themes to Taylor’s music and may be about Taylor.

The lyric video for Liz’s song STFU&HM includes polaroid pictures with the song’s lyrics written on them and neon signs, which is basically the 1989 aesthetic. The actual mv has some potential parallels to the IKYWT mv. (side note: Liz specified in an interview that the kind of “sour candy” she is singing about in the song is Watermelon Sour Patch, which Taylor mentioned in the June 2008 issue of Teen Vogue was something that she “couldn’t live without”)

The love interest wears a key necklace in the STFU&HM mv and Taylor wears one in the IKYWT mv.

The bridge of IKYWT is very similar to lyrics from a song by Patty Griffin called “Nobody’s Crying”. Liz once said that Patty is her favorite singer (this was when she was still in Taylor’s band) and has mentioned her and that particular song multiple times over the years. Side note: Taylor mentioned last year that another one of Patty’s songs was the inspiration for “betty”.

Liz played the other woman in the mv for TSOU and in the photoshoot for SN. At the end of the mv for her song “H8U”, Liz interrupts her love interest’s wedding and kisses his tall, blonde, curly haired bride.

This one could be a crazy coincidence, but Liz recorded the backing vocals on a song called “Dear John” that was written by the backup dancer who came out to Taylor during the Fearless Tour. Btw, by no means am I saying DJ is about Liz because that would make zero sense.

Liz’s birthday is on one of the board games in the “Lover” mv that reference “Cruel Summer”. Most people think CS is about Karlie and that makes sense, but it also seems to reference “Love Story”, which was potentially written sometime around when Taylor performed on the show Liz was a contestant on. I don’t know if LS is about Liz and I am not trying to claim that, but it is interesting. Even if it’s not, they performed that song together a lot and Liz helped out with the onstage costume change during that song. CS could be about her experiences with both Liz and Karlie. Or it could just be about Karlie and the date in the “Lover” mv has nothing to do with Liz’s birthday.

In “the 1” and “dorothea”, Taylor potentially references Liz’s song “Never Know” and by reference, I mean that she essentially uses the exact same lyrics: “I guess you never know, you never know” = “I guess you never know, never know” and “I guess I’ll never know” = literally just the same line. Not to mention in “dorothea” Taylor also sings “Do you ever stop and think about me?” and in NK Liz sings “I wonder if you think about me” right before the line “I guess I’ll never know”. I am not saying that either of those songs are about Liz, but it is interesting, especially since Liz tweeted about “the 1”, which was the thing that really sent me on my deep dive into Tayliz.

The “cardigan” looks like the cardigan she wears in the first vlog she included Liz in. It could be nothing, but it is interesting because I have a theory that Liz is the first woman she had a “relationship” with and that “cardigan” is about Liz, Dianna, Karlie, and possibly some other women she might have dated/been with.

These are just some of the highlights and are more focused on the facts as opposed to some of my more tinfoil hat, fun, crack theory stuff or just some of the things that are loosely related to Liz or might involve a little (or a lot of) reaching to connect them to her.

Everything I have mentioned could just be a series of strange coincidences, even though there appears to be quite a few of them. Whether anything ever happened between them or it was just one of those intense, romantic friendships that some women tend to have, I don’t really know. Based on what I have seen, I tend to think there was something going on there beyond friendship, but possibly it was never anything official.

Liz seemed to have a boyfriend most of the time that Tayliz were working together/hanging out, which is one of the main things that makes me question my own theory. Of course, it is always possible that she had something with Taylor, while she also had a boyfriend. There are many reasons for that (poly, closeted, etc.), so that does not exclude the idea that she may have actually been involved with two people at one time and one of those people could have been Taylor.

If they were together in some capacity, while Liz also had a boyfriend, it could explain the messy relationship that Taylor seemed to write about during that time. I think it is possible that Emily was just a crush and Liz was her first actual experience with another woman where the feelings were reciprocated to some degree. OR they could have just been really good friends and I am utterly, completely wrong.

Maybe Taylor is just a straight girl, who doesn’t realize that she’s been sending signals that she is queer for years. Whenever that thought crosses my mind, I think about all of the things she has said and done that imply she may not be straight and I just can’t help thinking that it is intentional. I don’t think she is queerbaiting or unintentionally signaling that she might be queer. I think she is queer and has dropped multiple hints to suggest that over the years.

Anyway… Liz has a bf right now and seems to be in a good place, so let’s let her be, please. I hope we get some more new music from her soon.

As far as researching Tayliz goes, I’ll probably keep looking into it when I have time, but at this point I think I have seen pretty much all there is to see (of the content available online currently). I’ll be waiting for the songs from Taylor’s “vault” to drop to see if there are any potential connections there (at least in the “vault” songs for Fearless, Speak Now, and Red).

In conclusion (TL;DR)...

My personal opinion is that there is enough “circumstantial evidence” to include Liz on the list of Taylor potential exes. For me the Gaylor timeline looks something like this:

(Fair Warning: this is all total speculation based on song lyrics and other information that is publicly available)

Summer 2006-December 2007: Taylor develops a crush on Emily. Emily possibly finds out somehow and it doesn’t go over well (OR it does). She is fired from the band AND maybe she is paid off to pursue other interests…

2008/2009- Spring (Summer? Fall?) 2012: Taylor has an on/off relationship with Liz, while Liz also dates men. The relationship may have even started developing as early as the first time they supposedly met back in December 2006, but Taylor definitely was feeling something by the time she posted that blog in February 2008. It’s complicated and non-exclusive. Maybe Taylor wanted more of a commitment and maybe there were promises made that things could/would change, but they never did. By the time she started hanging out with Dianna she was ready to move on. So, she ended things in March/April… but still met up with Liz a couple times after (possibly as friends).

Taylor may have also dated Julianne H. at some point in 2008/2009.

Spring 2012-Fall 2013 (?): Taylor has an on/off relationship with Dianna that may have ended, in part, due to interference from Taylor’s team. Maybe it is the one relationship with a woman that could have actually developed into something more concrete, but maybe that also scared Taylor a bit.

Winter 2013/Early 2014-Fall 2016: Taylor has an on/off relationship with Karlie, while Karlie is also involved with Josh (hence my comment about how CS could be about her experiences with both Liz and Karlie because they may have been similar circumstances, where sometimes they were single and other times they had a serious bf).

Fall 2016-Present: There are at least a couple potential girlfriends within this timeframe. I lean towards Tily being a thing from at least fall 2016-Summer 2019. I am open to Zaylor and I do find it interesting, but I’m not as sold on that one. I personally do not think Taylor is with Joe nor do I think that Joe is WB.

The straight explanation could be that Taylor gets into really, intensely close friendships with other women and eventually they grow apart and move on with their lives.

The funny thing is that I remember Taylor once saying something about how after a breakup, she completely cuts that person off. That fits with her relationships (whatever the nature) with Liz, Dianna, and Karlie. With each of these women, Taylor shared a friend group with them, but Taylor seemed most interested in them. She has had a few friendly/cordial interactions with them, but she seems to have completely separated her life from them after their “friendships” ended. In fact, she moved to entirely different cities on opposite sides of the country (and in one case a different country, with a whole ocean in between) after she stopped hanging out with them.

That’s where I stand and it’s not really much different from where I was back in October when I posted my first summary on Tayliz.

Although, I do have more information now than I did then that leads me to think something was going on. 70% of the time I am convinced they had a relationship beyond friendship and 30% of the time I think they were only ever friends. 99.9% of the time I think I am a clown.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am inclined to believe that Tayliz is more likely to have had some sort of relationship than Taymily and is slightly less likely to have happened than Swiftgron and Kaylor. Other Gaylors might think they were only coworkers or friends. I’m not out to convince anyone. I am just presenting the information I have found and I don’t mind a friendly discussion/debate if anyone wants to talk about it.

#tayliz #random tayliz thoughts #random gaylor thoughts

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surveys-at-your-service · 3 years ago

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Survey #371

“some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses”

What is one song you feel as though you sing particularly well, if any? Probably none, lol. What was the last lengthy task you completed? I love these unique questions I've had lately, but damn, are a lot of my answers "I don't know," lol. What type of photography do you enjoy looking at? Do you take any photos yourself, and if so, what types of things do you prefer to photograph? I love floral and wildlife photography. Landscapes, too, and I have a great fondness for boudoir for reasons I've mentioned in previous surveys. I like taking nature pictures, mainly. Have you ever gone out for the Black Friday shopping rush? Did you enjoy it, or not so much? Or, what’s the busiest shopping day you’ve ever experienced? Hell no, that's a hard pass. I'm sure the busiest shopping experience I've had was like at the mall or something around Christmas, idk. Do you enjoy reading diaries or stories you wrote from when you were younger, or does it embarrass you? If you’ve kept them, was there a particular reason for hanging on to them so long? NO. I DON'T. BECAUSE I CRINGE INTO ANOTHER DIMENSION. I keep a lot of it for memory's sake, but goddamn, is it always embarrassing. What would you say was your first true hobby? What about your most recently developed one? Um... the first thing I really remember is video games. I played Spyro like, a LOT, along with other childhood games. I was just really into gaming at a young age. Is there one thing that throws off your mood more than others, whether it be lack of sleep, lack of food, heat/cold, etc., and when was the last time you felt especially cranky? THE HEAT. I become so irritable. I was needlessly cranky a few days ago for whatever reason. What kinds of things are you likely to complain about? My legs hurting, more than anything. Also being hot. Do you like to put any extra effort into your food in terms of presentation, or do you prefer to just put it on a plate and eat it as it is, no frills? Ha, no. It's not gonna look fancy in my stomach, so whatever. Have you ever dated someone who had kids? No, and I very much doubt I ever would. Are there any candles in the room with you? No. Does the last person you kissed have tattoos? No, but I tell her all the time that dainty nature tattoos would be THE most beautiful on her. When was the last time someone called you pretty? I think when I last updated my Facebook profile picture. Do you like the color pink? It's my favorite! Does your cell phone have a case on it? What color? It came with this thin purple one. What was the last song you had on repeat? "Moon Baby" by Godsmack. Ever kissed someone your parents hated? No. Your most recent ex says he/she hates you, you say? I wouldn't *say* anything, I'd break down sobbing. Would you feel hurt if your last ex was in a relationship? No. Have you ever had to choose between two people? Yes: Jason and Juan. Juan and I dated for less than a day not all that long before Jason and I got together, and Juan was pretty upset. He was nooot a fan of Jason due to a shared ex-girlfriend. Jason, meanwhile, just didn't care. What is the saddest thing that has happened to you? What about the happiest? I think the saddest thing has to be my breakup, especially when you know just how madly in love I was with him and had endless trust that he would never leave, and then he was gone in a flash one night. The happiest is, in turn, my recovery from said split. I found strength in myself and felt hope for once as I learned coping mechanics and got a psychiatrist that was worth a shit in my partial hospitalization program. What was the last new drink you discovered that was delicious? *shrug* Do you have a YouTube channel? Yes. I don't make videos anymore, though. Were you happy as a teenager? God no, my depression was awful. What do you do for your mom on Mother’s Day? Sigh. Not enough. I just tell her happy Mother's Day, give her a hug, and try to be an extra good daughter. Do you know anyone who follows a raw vegan diet and lifestyle? No. Can you go see a doctor alone or do you like to take someone with you? I can do it alone (but only have once), but I like to bring my mom with me still. Would you have sex with someone of the same gender as you? I'm bi, so. Have you ever had a concussion? One or two, I can't remember. How many dresses do you own? Zero. Do you know anyone who has a pet gecko? Yeah, my friend Summer has a darling leopard gecko. I want oneeeeee. They look so damn derpy and adorable, and their chill demeanor is something I really like in pets. Would you ever go bear hunting? No. Absolutely never. Do you prefer drawing or painting? Any particular reason why? Drawing, for sure. At least you can erase stuff, and paint is just so messy. Do you like raisins? NO THANKS MAN. Do you remember your locker combinations from high school? Nope. Do you forget to flip the page of your calendar at the start of each month? I don't have a calendar. Are you racist to any race? Nope. Have you ever intentionally hurt an animal? I've given cats and dogs a small pop on the rear, but nothing more than that. I hate doing even that, but with the language barrier and all, sometimes it's the only way to get your point across. Do you own any autographed memorabilia? No. Have you ever dated a twin? No. Oreos or Chips Ahoy? Oreos. Have you ever considered being a cop? Yeah, no thank you. What’s your favorite superhero movie? Maybe Logan. I thought it was very emotional and just overall a good movie. Name somebody you know who deserves a better life than they have: MY MOM. Name something that you’re good at but don’t like: uhhhhhhhh Name something that you’re bad at but DO like: Dancing, maybe. Which is worse: Stale chips or flat soda? Stale chips, for sure. It's certainly not my preference, but I can drink flat soda. Who’s the hottest guy and hottest girl out there? M-Mark Fischbach. :') Girl... let's seeeeee... maybe Alissa White-Gluz from Arch Enemy. GodDAMN what a WOMAN. ❤_❤ Do you ever trip over your pets? Yes, because he just looooves to follow me at my feet. What’s your relationship like with your exes? Aaron, Juan, Jason, and Tyler: nonexistent. Sara and Girt: great. What was the last thing you turned down doing? Going to my nephew's t-ball game. I always feel bad when I say no when Mom asks if I wanna go... but at least the kids know I just don't handle the heat well. Are you a party animal? Faaaaar from it, my friend. Who are you the biggest fan of? m-m-m-mMARKIPLIER You’re DJ for the night - first track to get everyone going? Uhhhh maybe "Party Hard" by Andrew W.K.? Have you ever been hit on by a pushy person? I think Juan was kinda pushy, but not to an uncomfortable degree. He respected what I felt. What accent do you find attractive? Most attractive, British. But I also really like Scottish and Irish. Also French accents in women I tend to find very beautiful-sounding. Have you ever had feelings for a friend's partner? Yes. What’s your favorite thing to do that doesn’t cost much? Drive around take pictures, maybe? Let's, uh, ignore the whole gas crisis in this answer. When in danger are you more fight or flight? Flight. Do you feel self conscious about a certain body part? *gestures to entire body* Have you been accused of being manipulative? Yes. Have you ever considered violence to solve your problem? No. Are you romantic? I personally think so. If you are a smoker, how long does a pack typically last you? If you aren’t a smoker, does anybody you are close to smoke, & if so, are you against the fact that they’re a smoker? I don't smoke. To answer the next part, yes, like my dad and stepmom. I wish they would stop so badly, like it's literally going to kill them both. Do you have more subscribers or more people that you are subscribed to? On YouTube? I'm definitely subscribed to waaay more people. Is there anything that has been drilled into your brain since you were young & you finally decided to stop listening to? How did it feel once you decided to listen to yourself over what you were told? Yes: "finish your plate." Teaching your kid to eat beyond their comfort can be very destructive, and I'm glad I never stuck to that once Mom stopped enforcing it. If you are currently in a relationship, what is one thing that seems to be unique or different about your relationship with this person, compared to other relationships in general? If you are currently single, is this more of a choice or is it more just the way things are going, not really something you chose? If you are neither “single�� or officially in a relationship, what are your feelings on your current situation? I'm single, and it's just how it is. I know realistically I wouldn't tell what felt like the right person no, but it really is probably better that I stay single and keep figuring my shit out. Think of somebody famous that you have a lot of respect for. What is something that you really admire them for? To name just one thing I admire in Mark, his relentless "I'm going to do this no matter what" attitude is very inspirational to me. He lets like... n-o-t-h-i-n-g get in his way. If somebody were to leave a harsh comment on a survey you took, judging you on one of your opinions, how would you react? I'd get pretty self-conscious, just because I in general take judgment quite poorly. I obsess over "what if they're right, and you're just an idiot?". Are there any other sites you use to find surveys to take? What sites do you use? I mainly use Tumblr and LiveJournal, but in times of great desperation, I'll use Bzoink and just google surveys as well, haha. Have you sent or received any friend requests on Facebook lately? Not sent, but I got one from someone I had no mutual friends with the other day. Safe to say I declined it. Can you recall the last time you turned down an offer, of any kind? Uhhhhh no. Which fruit would you say you eat the most often? Apples. What was your pet’s last vet visit concerning? Roman has been to the vet once to get neutered (and I think shots?). I took Venus many years ago because I thought she had a respiratory infection. Thank god, she didn't. Which animals do you tend to go check out first at pet stores? The reptiles, snakes in particular. Have you ever been a victim of a house fire? No. What’s the longest you’ve ever had to wait before being seated at a restaurant? Like, over an hour. Have you ever had a cavity before? How about a root canal? A tooth pulled? Braces? Cavities and braces, yes. What is your favorite zoo animal that you would like to set free? Probably polar bears. Like especially here, it gets so hot in the summer, and the poor things sometimes only have a bit of snow in the shade. Like... they can't be very happy. Especially when you see those videos of them playing in snow, and then you think about situations like our zoo here... ugh. What kinds of artifacts fascinate you? I really think old figurines built with like clay and stuff are cool. But all artifacts I find to be very intriguing. It's so interesting to see that the desire to create has always been with us as a species. Is there anyone that you’ve visited in jail? No.

#survey #surveys #questions #lyrics: ''killing in the name of'' by rage against the machine

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sexedforbiguys · 4 years ago

Text

Internalized homophobia and biphobia: what are they? – Sex Ed for Bi Guys

Published August 27, 2020.

This is the SFW/censored version of this post. You can view the uncensored version on a sexually-explicit blog here on Pillowfort.

Content warning: examples of internalized homophobia and biphobia, homophobic slurs.

I’ve been wanting to write about our mental health for some time, and internalized homophobia and biphobia are a good starting point. Homophobia is negative attitudes and stereotypes towards people with same-sex attractions, same-sex romantic relationships, and sex stuff people of the same gender do: think of the ickiness some people feel seeing two guys kiss. On top of this, we also have to deal with bullshit that gay guys don’t face. Biphobia is similar to homophobia, but towards people who are attracted to multiple genders. It’s the old: “we’re just on our way to gay town”; “I’d never date a bi guy”; “you have to choose”; etc. Homophobia and biphobia become internalized when we start to believe what we’ve been hearing our whole lives, when the fear of people’s reactions takes root, and when self-doubt and self-hate rear their ugly heads.

Internalized homophobia and what it feels like

Internalized homophobia makes you wish you were straight. It can lead to denial. It makes you feel you don’t deserve the same things “normal” people get because of your desire or love for men. It can sound like that:

You wish you were “normal”, and you even started hating yourself. When the other guys started accusing Rob of looking at their d**ks in the showers, you called him a f*g – because you were looking at their d**ks too.

Things are better now, but you were walking downtown and you saw two guys kiss. It was so weird, even though you’ve been dreaming of kissing your best friend. You hooked up with a guy from Grindr, but you were clear: no kissing, no hugging, just sex. But the moment you blew your load, you wanted out. Your skin crawled as you walked home, and you felt hollow.

Now, the sex is good, but that’s all you want from guys – there’s no way you’d fall in love with one. Your profile says masc-for-masc; you’re not like those over-the-top, flamboyant guys. You wish they’d tone it down, they give everyone the wrong impression. Seriously, what’s the idea of making your entire life about being gay, with the rainbows and the parades? It’s making everyone uncomfortable.

Internalized biphobia and what it feels like

Internalized biphobia is even more insidious. It starts by feeding on the ignorance those around you have been cultivating about being bisexual, pansexual or polysexual.

All you know is gay or straight. Sure, you think of other guys, but fucking girls feels amazing! You couldn’t possibly be gay; you just wish you had this guy’s body.

Or you’ve always been into other guys, you can’t be having feelings for that woman you just met. Anyway, everyone says you have to choose, maybe it’s just a phase. Maybe watching the right kind of porn will help you “choose”.

And once you think you know the truth about yourself, it tells you that maybe you’re wrong, or that it’s not such an important part of you.

Just settle with your new wife and you don’t have to bother about liking guys anymore. Or just say you’re gay so you don’t get the weird comments from your gay friends. You’ve always preferred guys after all, and you don’t want to deal with what they would think of you if you got a girlfriend. For all you know, maybe you’re just faking being attracted to women.

Or you’ve always seen yourself with a wife and kids and a family; even if you have these sexual desires for guys, your sexuality is nobody’s business but your own. Anyhow, your wife would be right to be angry if you told her you’re bi: that’s not what she signed up for, and it’s normal she’d worry about you being gay if she saw your porn.

You talked, and it’s kinda okay? You’ve been thinking of coming out, but you’re not really into labels, and people all get the wrong ideas when they hear a guy’s bisexual. Yet you end up being one of the 12% of bi men who come out to most of the important people in their lives; you’re finally done with that shit. But lately, you haven’t really been thinking about women, just guys… Are you gay after all? Oh, that girl who walked by is hot; you’re good.

This cool gay guy and you have been flirting – you think? – but what if he thinks you aren’t gay enough, or that there’s something he could never give you? Hey, he’s bi too! Wait, what if he leaves you for a woman someday? You’re not too sure about that.

Now it’s been years, and you love being bi! But that pansexual friend you had in college just got married, she was probably straight after all… That singer just came out as bisexual, but you bet he’ll say he’s gay in a couple of years; all the celebrities end up doing that, it’s so disappointing. And being bi is trendy with young people today. You wish you had another friend who’s bi, but they’re all gay or straight. Oh wow, your friend that you’ve known for years just said he’s not just into women! You had no idea, how come he didn’t say something sooner? He’s known for a long time that you’re bi after all.

It’s not all of that for everyone

I hope you’re not thinking or feeling all of what I just wrote. For many of us, internalized homophobia and biphobia are subtle, and only a few of these thoughts poison us, especially when we’ve worked towards accepting ourselves. Also, some of these beliefs can be there for reasons other than internalized oppressions. For example, many people have valid reasons to not want to label themselves: maybe the words feel too limiting. Or some people are private and feel that aspects of a sexuality they haven’t touched in a long time, or only when they watch porn and masturbate, belongs to them.

But internalized homophobia and biphobia hide in our blind spots and in our subconscious – it’s their thing, that’s what they do. So do some introspection. What are ways you think the internalized oppressions are still impacting you? Healing starts with developing an awareness that these exist within you. Still, although many of us have overcome our internalized homophobia, I have yet to meet a bi, pan or polysexual person who doesn’t occasionally struggle with internalized biphobia – so it’s probably in there somewhere.

My next article will talk about overcoming internalized homophobia and biphobia, but I don’t want to leave you hanging after stirring that shit up. This article and this video offer helpful suggestions, like reading books with bi characters or learning not to second-guess your feelings. Another important way of taking care of yourself is to connect with other people like you. If you haven’t already, check out r/BisexualMen on Reddit and maybe join our Discord chat server. You might discover how much of a weight is off your shoulders when you talk about your sexuality with other bi, pan and polysexual guys like it’s the most normal thing in the world.

***

Tip me or become a monthly supporter on Ko-fi if this post has helped you and you can afford it! I am going to university full-time to become a better educator. Supporting Sex Ed for Bi Guys means I have time to work on the series and continue helping people online, instead of working a part-time job while I'm in school. Support the series if you think bisexual, pansexual, and polysexual men deserve support and quality sex ed!

Check out all Sex Ed for Bi Guys posts here, including articles such as “Am I bi?”, Dating men, women, and nonbinary folks, and Butt sex 101.

All images are borrowed from the internet and are in the post because I like them. If you are the copyright owner or a person in the image, contact me: I’ll gladly credit you, or remove the image at your request.

#sex ed for bi guys #internalized biphobia #internalized homophobia #mental health #bi men #bisexual #bisexuality #polysexual #pansexual #queer #sex education

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thecoleopterawithana · 5 years ago

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Hello, I'm the last anon you answered to. I'm sorry if I came out as defensive because it wasn't my intention. In fact I've always thought that John was bisexual until I started questioning everything. ( I'm a bisexual guy myself and I'm perfectly happy with the way I am ! ) It's just that I feel like Yoko would just say whatever she wants on John to suit her agenda. John's sexuality had always been an interesting topic and dropping something like that would gaib her publicity this is why I --

I question the authenticity of her claims. She could have lied about it just to attract attention… And I’d be disappointed because John was in fact my idol and he gave me the strength to come out as bi to my family. But there’s so many anecdotes about him being homophobic that it just makes me sad and this is why I hardly doubt that he was a bisexual man…As for the Cynthia quote I heard her say something like “ John was afraid of homosexuality just like everyone ) in a video on Youtube –

I am very conflicted because I’ve watched videos of John ( interviews etc ) and many comments said that he was very skilled at manipulating people and wasn’t as honest as he appeared to be, which is why I doubt. John had always been the rebellious type and I started thinking that he was using the bisexuality topic to shock and make people talk about it which is disappointing. Was he dropping hints that he was bi to piss off people and make publicity ? This is what I believe : (There is also -

Something he said to Alaister Taylor where he said that he was trying to spread the rumor that he was gay or bi just for fun and he told him that he would never shag a man because just the thought of it turned him off… Yet he also told him that he adored Brian so much that he would have done anything with him ( he contradict himself here. ) So yeah I didn’t want to be rude. I apologize. I think I need reassurance. Could you please analyse everything I said if u don’t mind please ? : (

Anon 2

At the very least all these years later isn’t it circumstantially suggested that John had very private gay encounters, and was uncomfortable making them public, yet wanted to hint at them so he could deal with this matter int he future? He was protecting his privacy and his ego, and perhaps wasn’t yet ready to reveal either his encounters or mixed feelings of bisexuality. His encounters have been protected by those with whom he was involved, people thameant a lot to him, no?

Anon 3

hey! by any chance, do you have knowledge of the quotes where john said “sex with girls felt like a performance after the first time” and “i was never sexually attracted to women before yoko”? i am SURE i’ve seen the first one somewhere on tumblr, though the second one is more of a quote of a quote so i’m not sure if it’s real or not dfkdjk thanks, anyway!

Anon 4

Hello! Is it true that John used to be very attracted to the drag scene in St Pauli ( I guess that was the town I read about ) and that basically the drag / gay scene made him feel comfortable and at home? Says a lot about him!

@tbhmarjj

I adore you, thank u for this blog and ur beautiful mind. i doubt johns bisexuality at times tbh considering he went to great lengths for publicity and he wanted to be an LGBT ally, be cool and outspoken and as he himself said it was trendy to be bi. but then again he was obsessed with Paul in so many ways and he was the embodiment of John’s ideal man. beautiful, talented, intellectual. I’ll be patiently awaiting ur posts exploring Paul’s views on johns sexuality.Thank u

Hello again, anon!

I want to begin by thanking you for getting back to me after I answered your ask and for clarifying where you were coming from when you wrote it. It really is quite hard to fully get the tone of a written message, especially one that is so short that you have no context to draw from to get the emotional meaning behind it. It really appeared to me when I read it that the concern was not who was saying it (Yoko) but about what was being said (John was bisexual). I can now see that was not the case and I appreciate that you’ve made that clear.

I also hope you don’t mind, but I’ve taken the opportunity to include in this answer all of the other asks I’ve been receiving regarding John’s sexuality. It’s clearly a topic of great interest in this community. So I’ll be attempting to address all the points raised here. Again, this is nothing definitive; only my personal readings of the situation as I find it at the moment.

Before I do answer, though, I’d just like everyone to take a deep breath and a step back. Let’s try to examine this topic a bit more objectively.

I understand that sex is kind of major in our society. Our notion of identity is tightly bound to our classified sexuality and gender. Sexual relationships (or amorous relationships) are seen as the epitome of human connection and the ideal everyone should be striving for. And people fundamentally want to be loved and not alone, so it makes sense that figuring out who is a potential companion (and if that companion is interested back) is such a big deal.

But despite these layers of meaning and societal pressures, we should keep in mind what sex represents, essentially, from an evolutionary point of view.

For social animals who derive pleasure from sexual stimulation, sexual intercourse is – like all the other kinds of affection – a way to build connections.

If you want to find examples in nature, just look at our ape cousins, the bonobos. The also called pygmy chimpanzee lives in a matriarchal society where sexual behaviour plays an essential role in strengthening social bonds, lowering tension and keeping the peace. Bonobos don’t discriminate between gender or age (except between mothers copulating with their own adult sons, so as to prevent cross-breeding). It’s the true “free love” society; evolution took “make love, not war” and ran with it.

Our own culture seems more similar to that of bonobos’ northern neighbours, the common chimp. Their patriarchy is more conservative regarding sexual intercourse, which is mainly used for reproduction purposes, and their power structure is based around intricate political games, where males form alliances and try to get public support in order to overthrow the ruling party.

I find it endlessly curious to look at these two species, whose physical separation by the Congo river made them diverge so starkly in their social organization, and compare them to the struggle between these same two natures that we find in our own society.

All this to say that, from a simply biological point of view, I have to agree with John and Yoko when they say that everyone must be bisexual. If sexual intercourse as a social behaviour is, inherently, all about establishing bonds and connections, the extent to which those connections are “allowed” to be built depends entirely on the hierarchal structure that same society is trying to preserve. In other words, what is classified as morally right or wrong is more reflective of the rules in place to keep that society working as it is, than it is of what is naturally present as a drive.

If your brain is primed to seek pleasure and sexual intercourse brings you pleasure independently of the partner’s gender, then the partner’s gender should be inconsequential.

But unlike bonobos, humans are kind of touchy about touching. So there are other levels of information influencing behaviour. The processes of socialization – of internalizing the norms and ideologies of society – and enculturation – by which people learn the dynamics of their surrounding culture and acquire values and norms appropriate or necessary in that culture and worldviews – are as determinant as the genetic factors influencing behaviour. In fact, this added education can be so effective in curbing your “primal instincts”, that one might forget they have them in the first place.

Thus, the concepts of gender identity and sexual orientation are a constantly shifting construct based on the various interactions between your genetic makeup and social influences.

I just think that, in order to have this discussion, it’s important to separate the various levels of it and be clear about which we are referring to.

There is the basic evolutionary drive to seek pleasure and form connections.

There is the social education about that same drive and how it is allowed to manifest itself.

And integrating all these different signals and information – various potentials which manifested as attraction – there finally is a behaviour, a choice.

And finally, there’s the external point of view of other members of society looking in and trying to discern other people’s drives and how they relate to their choices (that’s us now). The problem is, we often throw our own drives and choices into the mix, especially with regards to something as personally defining as sexual orientation.

So we have to make very clear in our minds what is the end goal here. Why are we interested in discussing this topic? Are we looking to discern as much of the truth as we can get it, objectively trying to understand these human beings? Or are we trying to confirm our own projections on them? And please, don’t take me wrong. All these are valid reasons to be interested in a subject. Often how it resonates with us, so personally, is vitally important to reaching a greater understanding about ourselves and learning how to communicate that to others.

But in the same way a piece of music can make you have a transformative emotional experience that the artist didn’t necessarily go through, it’s important to remember that our own inner-life might be affecting how we examine others. Better be mindful of what we project, lest we think are finally seeing inside another person when in fact we are only looking at our own reflection. (And honestly, I believe getting to truly know ourselves in this processes can be a hundred times more valuable than knowing the other. By learning to recognize ourselves we can better understand other people and vice-versa.)

So if it is important to you that John is bisexual, my honest opinion is that all the information can be read in a way that confirms it. We’ll hardly ever know for sure, and based on what we do know, that can certainly be the takeaway.

But if we want to objectively examine John’s sexuality, we shouldn’t bring in a confirmation bias. Meaning that we should be emotionally detached from the outcome, as long as it is as close to the truth as we can get. But this is only where I’m coming from, and I’m a bit of a scientist. It’s totally fair if you’re not in it for the same reasons. Though again, working under the assumption that you want to know my stance on it, let’s proceed.

I understand your reservations regarding Yoko as an unreliable narrator. To analyse Yoko’s motivations would be an interesting topic, but one which I will not go in at the moment as I don’t feel sufficiently informed about Yoko as a person to give an extensive examination.

But in my opinion, there is a whole lot of other information available from which to draw from other than Yoko’s statements.

I also get your and @tbhmarjj‘s concerns about John’s declarations during the 70s. But it’s the same question I posed in the previous post: Was the “bisexual chic” fad of the 1970s merely a publicity stunt for those involved? Even if it was, did it make the experimentations undertaken any less true? Were they just faking it for the press or were they finally allowed to try and be open about it?

Because I come from the biological background that places sex as a positive social interaction like any other, meaning that its purpose is to create bonds and the pleasure is our “reward” for doing it, I tend to believe that the behaviours were genuine. The drive there is real. As real as the internal constraints that would act on them as a result of societies shifting expectations and permissions. And this socialization is as determinant in the creation of sexual attraction as anything. So based on our definition of sexual orientation, all those bi rockstars of the 70s could have effectively stopped identifying as bi once the new social norm overrun their own internal drives and the previous less conservative status quo. That didn’t make them less bi when they were.

It’s funny, but in terms of gender and sexuality, nothing is real so everything is.

So yeah, I think that John could have been bisexual the second he felt he was. But because the social tide was likely to shift, it was better to also maintain a measure of deniability: it was just for show, it’s not serious, I was just taking the mickey out of you and you fell for it! Of course John was smart enough to leave space there to retract. He and Paul had mastered the art as communicators through song. They could claim them to mean everything and nothing as it suited them. As Anon 2 says, it’s a protective measure.

So I think that at some point in time, John genuinely identified as bisexual. Now whether he acted on it or not is another questioned entirely. As Anon 2 points out, there are various circumstantial accounts, but these are always tougher to verify.

I tend to believe Yoko when she says:

So did Lennon ever have sex with men?

“No, I don’t think so,” says Ono. “The beginning of the year he was killed, he said to me, ‘I could have done it, but I can’t because I just never found somebody that was that attractive.’ Both John and I were into attractiveness—you know—beauty.”

I ask what she makes of the people outside the building, the crowds still at Strawberry Fields.

Ono misunderstands, or mishears (or is simply focused on the last strand of our conversation), and continues to talk about sex.

“I don’t make anything out of it. When you’re not really interested in that sort of sex, you don’t think about it. Both John and I surprisingly were very passive people. Unless somebody made a thing out of it, if they made a move, I wouldn’t even think about it.”

— in Yoko Ono: I Still Fear John’s Killer by Tim Teeman for the Daily Beast (13 October 2015).

At least I believe he at least never “fully” did it, in the sense of full-blown anal sex. I think there might have been “milder” homosexual interactions, such as handjobs, that could be rationalized as not entirely gay (the thing with Brian in Spain being one of them.)

Regarding the drag scene in Hamburg Anon 4 was asking about, I agree that it also provides information about John. Though I think it’s mainly about his gender identity rather than his sexual orientation (though the two are invariably linked in the construct as well).

Here are some quotes about it:

With his four months’ greater experience, Sheridan was an ideal guide to the Reeperbahn’s more exotic diversions, like the Schwülen laden. Stu Sutcliffe later wrote home in amazement that the transvestites were ‘all harmless and very young’ and it was actually possible to speak to one ‘without shuddering’. Though raised amid the same homophobia as his companions, John seemed totally unshocked by St Pauli’s abundant drag scene; indeed, he often seemed actively to seek it out. ‘There was one particular club he used to like,’ Tony Sheridan remembers, ‘full of these big guys with hairy hands, deep voices—and breasts. But they used to make an effort to talk English. There was something about the place that seemed to make John feel at home.’

— In John Lennon: The Life by Philip Norman (2008).

And according to Horst Fascher (bouncer at the Indra Club and the Kaiserkeller):

It wasn’t just girls that were on offer to young english rockers. Monica’s Bar was Hamburg’s notorious transvestite club. For one or two English musicians, Monica’s was just another part of the Hamburg experience.

HORST FASCHER: One night Monica said, “Come, come and look. One of your boys is in the séparé.” “And who is it?” And she said, “One of the Beatles.” “Let me look”. She said, “Be careful. Look only sneaky-like.” But I did. I grabbed the curtain, pulled it aside and there was sitting John in… in a position with that girl, and you know. He felt really ashamed and I said, “John, don’t worry man. I did that all before.”

— In The Beatles Biggest Secrets. [Transcription is my own and I’m not too certain of it.]

Though there certainly might have been an aspect of sexual interest to it, I think John’s fascination with the drag scene was also the kinship with the queerness he felt inside himself; mainly in regards to him wanting to express his more sensitive side, which is coded as feminine in our society. So I think seeing men indulging in femininity and nonnormative behaviour resonated with him.

Also, I think it’s even more important to understand John’s relationship with sex in general, regardless of the partner.

To that end, the quote mentioned by Anon 3 is of special relevance:

When I was a kid, I wanted to shag every attractive woman I saw. I used to dream that it would be great if you could just click your fingers and they would strip off and be ready for me. I would spend most of my teenager years fantasising about having this kind of power over women. The weird thing is, when the fantasies came true they were not nearly so much fun. One of my most frequent dreams was seducing two girls together, or even a mother and a daughter. That happened in Hamburg a couple of times and the first time it was sensational. The second time it got to feel like I was giving a performance. You know how when you make love to a woman that the moment you come, you get a buzz of relief and just for a moment you don’t need anyone or anything. The more women I had, the more the buzz would turn into a horrible feeling of rejection and revulsion at what I’d been doing. As soon as I’d been with a woman, I wanted to get the hell out.

— John Lennon to Alistair Taylor (Brian Epstein’s assistant), 1965. In his autobiography With the Beatles: A Stunning Insight by The Man who was with the Band Every Step of the Way (2003).

And another important passage is in reference to Janov’s Primal Scream Therapy:

Well, his thing is to feel the pain that’s accumulated inside you ever since your childhood. […] The worst pain is that of not being wanted, of realising your parents do not need you in the way you need them. When I was a child I experienced moments of not wanting to see the ugliness, not wanting to see not being wanted. This lack of love went into my eyes and into my mind. […] Most people channel their pain into God or masturbation or some dream of making it. […] But for me at any rate it was all part of dissolving the Godtrip or father-figure trip. Facing up to reality instead of always looking for some kind of heaven.

— John Lennon, interviewed by Robin Blackburn and Tariq Ali for Red Mole (8-22 March 1971). [I really can’t stop pointing to this quote as one of the most important in order to understand John Lennon.]

As he reiterates in ‘I Found Out’ (1970): Some of you sitting there with yer cock in yer hand / Don’t get you nowhere don’t make you a man

To me, John’s pursuit of sex is, like most things in his life, essentially about filling this black-hole of emotional pain. He internalized the lack of love from his parents, which went into his eyes and mind, until he himself believed he was unlovable. This lack of self-esteem translates into a lot of pain and the need for an external solution for that pain.

The external solution is not wanting to feel so vulnerable any more. This can be achieved either by trying to seize control, by exerting it over others or having them look up to you (e.g. “fantasising about having this kind of power over women”; “some dream of making it”). Or it can be achieved by handing control over and being taken care of (e.g. “people channel their pain into God”, “I’ve seen religion from Jesus to Paul”.)

Sex as an activity can play into these various dynamics: it can be used to feel power over others, as John started out; it can be used as an escapist distraction, like a drug (e.g. “you get a buzz of relief and just for a moment you don’t need anyone or anything”); and it can be used as giving yourself over and being loved, looking to receive that which you can’t get from yourself.

As time passed and the first two solutions stopped working, I think John focused on the third: sex in the context of an emotionally close relationship as the ultimate intimacy and proof that he was loved. And because he wanted to absolve himself of responsibility, to be taken care of, his partner needed to be someone on the other end, someone who had control. In our culture, this reads as a masculine figure (e.g. “father-figure trip”).

This may be from a female, whose masculine qualities were what attracted John in the first place:

In this intense, intimate and revealing original cassette recording of a private conversation in 1969 between John Lennon and Yoko Ono, the couple speaks primarily about Yoko’s past relationships, her music and art, and their random views on sex, love, promiscuity, and homosexuality. […] [Lennon] adds that he had never met an attractive woman that had sexually aroused him to any great degree.

— Description of the 45-minute audiotape auctioned in 2009 by Alexander Autographs.

I used to say to him, ‘I think you’re a closet fag, you know.’ Because after we started to live together, John would say to me, ‘Do you know why I like you? Because you look like a bloke in drag. You’re like a mate.’

— Yoko Ono, interviewed for New York Magazine (25 May 1981).

Or the partner he was looking for could be found in the (often dominant) person he was most emotionally invested in his whole life.

All I want is you / Everything has got to be just like you want it to

And in a society that establishes that the closest two people can be, the greatest intimacy they can share, the ultimate declaration of love is to live in a monogamous amorous relationship, is it any wonder that John felt he could only believe in their relationship if they were together like that? Is it any wonder that he would doubt Paul’s affections because Paul apparently wasn’t willing to express them like that?

JOHN: It’s a plus, it’s not a minus. The plus is that your best friend, also, can hold you without… I mean, I’m not a homosexual, or we could have had a homosexual relationship and maybe that would have satisfied it, with working with other male artists. [faltering] An artist – it’s more – it’s much better to be working with another artist of the same energy, and that’s why there’s always been Beatles or Marx Brothers or men, together. Because it’s alright for them to work together or whatever it is. It’s the same except that we sleep together, you know? I mean, not counting love and all the things on the side, just as a working relationship with her, it has all the benefits of working with another male artist and all the joint inspiration, and then we can hold hands too, right?

SHEVEY: But Yoko is a very independent person. Isn’t it— [inaudible]

JOHN: Sure, and so were the men I worked with. The only difference is she’s female.

SHEVEY: But you didn’t find it difficult to make that transition?

JOHN: Oh yeah. I mean, it took me four years. I’m still not – I’m still only coming through it, you know.

— Interview with Sandra Shevey (June 1972).

I know I keep posting this quote, but I don’t think he can make it more obvious than that: it’s not about the sex. Or rather, the sex is not the primary thing.

He didn’t push all those years because he was uncontrollably horny for Paul. John just wants a physical manifestation, a more tangible “proof”, of his emotional connections. He wants to be able to hold hands, be held and perhaps also have sex with his best friend; he needs those proofs of love through the means of physical affection because he won’t believe Paul’s love for him is there otherwise (or that it’s as great as John’s).

Would society normalizing other kinds of relationships – such as friendships – to be as important or on the same level as amorous (romantic/sexual) ones, have helped John and Paul? Most likely.

Would society normalizing same-sex amorous relationships have helped John and Paul? Perhaps. (For this one we would have to look more closely at Paul’s needs and desires.)

All this to say that John’s idea of sexuality was extremely influenced by society, and in his case, the rule “amorous relationships are the normative ones” outweighed the “heterosexual relationships are the normative ones”.

The conflict occurred when from Paul’s perspective, the priority of the rules was the other way around. I think Paul was ready to ignore society’s norm and live his life with his friendship with John as the most important relationship. But he also wanted a heterosexual one. (But more on that on a post of its own.)

For now, I hope I have more or less managed to express my thoughts on the matter of John’s sexuality.

Thank you so much for reading through all that and for reaching out in the first place! I truly appreciate it!

#John Lennon #paul mccartney #yoko ono #the beatles #asks me why #I'm not a homosexual or we could have had a homosexual relationship #he could be a real soft sweetie #paul is a concept by which we measure our pain #touching is good #and when i touch you i feel happy inside #the person I actually picked as my partner #johnny #macca #alistair taylor #Brian Epstein #Tony Sheridan #Horst Fascher #meta #my stuff

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jlf23tumble · 5 years ago

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This one’s for @homosociallyyours and @silverfoxlouis, the former because she’s not going to listen and the latter because they’re listening as we speak! I saw a post earlier that low-key annoyed me because it either misrepresented today’s Stern interview or it skipped right over the fascinating bits, so here are the parts I enjoyed (I won’t waste my time on the shit I hated, lol):

Shrooms and the song-writing process are related to Harry’s anxiety about fucking shit up and needing to get out of his own head; related: coming from a band, if there's something you don't like, you can tell yourself that it wasn’t your choice.

The Rob Stringer talk made me SIDE EYE w/r/t the delay, like, okay, you’re a label boss who’s gonna drop a ton of money, but you’re cool with telling the artist to just relax and take all the time they need, you’ll just pick up the thread when hs2 is completely finished, lolz (I have my own theories about allllll of that, but okay!).

I love Stevie and her coven of nocturnal witches, too, but tell me more about how she hated Harry’s choice of first single (in my heart, she wanted “Golden”) and the song that she thought should have been on the album but isn’t, god, she’s such a yoda, and this entire bit was so much bigger than the coven.

I live in Harry’s soft, breathy “thank you” whenever Howard praises SOTT.

I feel like all the White Eskimo talk is a fic waiting to happen, the whole battle of the bands and them winning studio time and how Harry talks to maybe one of them and there’s a guy who IS STILL IN WHITE ESKIMO I GUESS???? WHAT?

Howard Stern hatesssssssssssss Simon Cowell, so his attempts to get Harry to talk shit were both wonderful and expertly dodged, lmao.

My only positive comment about the discussion around Harry “putting on some timber” during his bakery (cashier at a baker) years was how much it echoed Louis’s comment about “having extra timber” during one of his recent BTS specials.

Were the guys in One Direction REALLY saying that Matt Cardle was “so fucking good” back in the day? This junior statesman!

Ralph pointed this out when we were talking about the interview, but a lot of the time, Howard just makes statements (as per usual), and Harry says, “Right,” which is a great response because it isn’t really an answer, yet it’s still participatory.

Howard is obsessed with coronavirus, so it was hella interesting to hear Harry’s thoughts about it affecting his tour, when his tour is still so far away (yet another tour is so much closer and in the direct line of fire).

Howard (like me) was pleased that Harry’s band is a mix of women and men and not just dudes (I should take a drink every time Bowie is mentioned, like around Harry’s clothes, how Harry is starting his tour in Philadelphia, the entirety of that convo making me want to see Harry’s face as much as all the xarries want to).

One of the things I hated seeing earlier today was this notion that Howard “forced” Harry to talk about the robbery because he absolutely did not, Harry went into CRAZY levels of detail about it when Howard asked, “When did this happen to you?” (and the way Harry talked about it wasn’t full of trauma or sadness, it bordered on humorous in spots but still serious; it clearly shook him up, but he wasn’t about to let it change his life of feeling free to walk around at night).

I wanted to hear a lot more about all the musicians hanging out in the ‘70s and being competitive in terms of who was writing the best songs about a particular party vs. the competitiveness of banging out the best single today. Harry’s focus was that if you say you like a song, people think you should collaborate…if two musicians hang out, they're dating or recording (like with Adele, and case in point, Howard immediately asked if they were working on something).

I also loved the bit about acting and how nervous Harry used to be about EVERYTHING because he’s waiting three hours to do three minutes, and he focuses so much on his voice or hands shaking, but this last SNL really helped (in my heart, his “little tweaks” were on the Sara Lee sketch).

I live in the guffaw from Harry whenever Howard unexpectedly hit his funny bone (like Harry saying Anne gave him some money to buy clothes when he first moved to London, and Howard saying it was good return on investment for her, what with the house Harry eventually bought her, etc.).

I absolutely LOVED the entire bit about Ben Winston’s attic (and Ralph’s related takes on it), the fine line of the plausibility yet the doubling down; the word “cocaine” coming out of Harry’s mouth; the parts about dating and keeping your relationship normal/secret, etc., GOLD, ALL OF IT.

Harry, like Phoenix Mendoza, writes every day, which is part of why he wasn’t really into giving up his phone to muggers because that’s his writing zone of choice for lyrics and poems (the whole robbery clapback here: “for the purposes of not getting mugged again, no, they’re on a different device”).

MITCH SPEAKS!! He was into his Nick Drake phase when Harry met him, but apparently everyone is into the open D (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) chord, so he was a shoe-in. Also, Harry met Adam in 2010??? I’d like more information.

We move back into 1D territory with Zayn’s departure, which is still shittily handled but somewhat more maturedly discussed, and yet another attempt to get Harry to talk shit about Simon, which is getting us closer to what we want/need (Harry’s very real answer to Simon being pissed that Harry didn’t consult him about going solo: “I’m in a band since I was 16, there were five of us, we had a lot of managers, lots of people at the label, and all of these decisions affect your life in a massive way, every decision I made was a group call. I didn't know who I was as an adult,” and a lot of that is paraphrased in spite of the quote marks, but just know that I am screaming LIAM).

There’s a lot of weird downspeak to Sarah and Ny (Adam and Mitch were talked at earlier), but everyone’s very much into Sarah, and rightfully so. I loved the slip up where Howard is trying to figure out if there’s anything romantic going on between Harry and the female band members, and someone says, “Mitch!” so you can hear Howard process Harry and Mitch for a hot sec, cracking the Hitch dream, before we get clarification and Harry gleefully taking us into the story of their love. (Me as the speech Howard gives Sarah and Mitch about how dangerous it is to be in a band together and to have a relationship because if you fuck it up, it’ll be terrible.)

SLEDGEHAMMER NICE.

We get a bit into the “Adore You” video because Howard’s an animal softie, and he loves it (it’s downplayed, but Howard also mentions how fans have put a lot of “thoughts” into the fish), but then we get into talk about how this song is about the girl Harry’s banging (HIS SNICKER HERE) and how the common denominator in all of Harry’s failed relationships is him, huh. All of this relationship talk here makes me want to DIE with how much I love it.

Everyone focuses on the gross talk from Howard about Harry having a lady therapist (this is a long-standing Howard trope), but some good shit disappears between those cracks, like how Harry decided to go into therapy, how he’s keeping his LA therapist instead of having two in different countries, etc., and it’s actually Robin who asks Harry about seeming weak or vulnerable in front of a female therapist, but clearly, he’s not bothered.

I’m so interested in how the shrooms tongue-biting incident cured a speech impediment I wasn’t fully aware of but that is still so impossibly endearing.

Harry himself picks out his opening acts, which we already knew but is always nice to hear confirmed.

The drug convo in text from earlier today makes it sound like he doesn’t smoke cigs, but to me, it seems like he doesn’t like to smoke weed (an edible king, relatable).

Harry says, “you’ve said it all,” which just makes me think he’s a long-time (or recent) Stern listener, because that’s what Howard says when he’s done/interview’s over.

We think it’s all done but the shouting, and then Robin gets into Harry’s clothing, which is where it gets dicey. Howard (of course) mentions that Bowie wore a skirt and how he himself did full drag on TV (“legs shaved and everything, you should see how gorgeous I am as a woman”), but Harry keeps it very much in the realm of what he wears is what he wears because it’s fun for him, he’s not wearing a school uniform or trying to look cool for his friends, he’s a lot more comfortable with himself: “At shows, I tell people to be who they want to be, I plan on telling my kids that, so I don’t want to be a hypocrite, I’m not wearing it for shock value.”

Howard says people will assume he’s gay or bi (like Bowie, YEAH, SIGH), but Harry says it’s not performative. This whole bit is fascinating on so many levels, he touches (without saying) on the entire queer-baiting issue, and it’s cringe-y, with Howard saying “I’m not criticizing, wear what you want, I’m a big mess, etc.”

Anyway, they pivot out of that with Howard moving beyond into asking Harry who he wants to badmouth: “Simon?” Harry: “This has been great!” and this entire bit about how Howard wants to know if Harry considers Simon a friend, and Harry saying he doesn’t talk to him gives me life. There’s a lot of gross talk about who Harry has his eye on for his next girlfriend, but I will tell you that I never in my life expected to hear the words SUSAN BOYLE thrown into this convo.

The interview closes out with Harry getting progressively more silent about the women he should date, saying that he doesn’t talk in interviews about his love life, he talks in music (oh?????), so Taylor Swift comes up, and Harry says it’s flattering to think you’re in a Taylor song because she’s such a great songwriter, which, true, I guess?

Harry hasn’t used a dating app (duh), but Howard thinks he should create one, and…scene.

#recap #stern show

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mermaidvenom · 4 years ago

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you don't have to read this its more of I needed to vent

(even though its basically addressed to someone)

to the person who sent me that anon ask a long while back about me giving off bi vibes I'm starting think y’all where right like lockdown has recently been proving I very confusing time for me sexuality wise I have been questioning everything

like on one hand I've never dated a woman or had a crush on well I don't want to say I've never had a crush on a real woman because I've have a ton of crushes on actresses like Jessica alba and scarlet Johansson (they are the only two I can remember off the top of my head) what I mean is I've never actually had crushes on women I could realistically date so in my head I feel that doesn't really count but then on the other hand I haven't dated or had crushes on a lot of guys (I've had 2 boyfriends in my entire life time) and my list of female actress crushes is a lot longer than my male one I only fancy one male actor and that's tom Hiddleston

my list of female crushes has also gotten A lot longer granted some of them are fictional women which also makes me think I'm just being silly but then I looked at it from another perspective e.g. I'm going through what I'm going through now and questioning my sexuality except its flipped around I know for sure that I really am bisexual but have only dated 2 women but haven't dated any men but have a lot of male crushes and I just kind of think in that scenario that wouldn't make me any less bisexual because I still find men attractive even though I couldn't realistically date them because they are actors

then I also need to factor in that I've never really been what society would consider attractive men never even liked me so wouldn't surprise me if women didn't either and I cant talk even talk to the people I find attractive let alone flirt with them I relied on dating websites to get the only 2 boyfriends I have had and I didn't even start talking to them first.

then I think well I could always try taking a nice girl out on a date and see how that goes but then remember I've been put of the idea of dating period thanks to the fact the only relationships I have had where extremely toxic

and that's on me being extremely confused about my sexuality and how its easier to just say I'm straight because I'm honestly not sure what I am anymore

side note I've only posted this on here because I have no one to talk to about it to irl I cant tell my mam anything never have been able to

my sister tells my mam everything and my dad just tells me to go away all time because the football is more important so all I have are you guys on Tumblr

EDIT/UPDATE

I completely forgot I actually did develop a crush on a girl I could realistically date because they aren't an actress i saw them on tik tok because they had posted a video asking about what would a person do if they turned up to a date dressed like an elf and she was so cute I actually commented honestly id just be glad if she showed up

#confused about my sexuality #long ass rant #had to get it off my chest somehow #its been eating me up #still kind of is #needed to vent

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ashsilla · 5 years ago

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Losses (Part Four)

Book: Platinum

Ship: Raleigh Carrera (M) x MC (Suiko Hono) with hints of Avery (M) x MC

Rating: T

A/N: It’s the night of the Vinyls! Fiona gives Suiko some advice to lend her confidence. With Avery and Raleigh up for the same award, and the whole world watching, things might just boil over this time.

Tag List: @lunalixo @furiouscloddonutpeanut @lovedrakewalker @topsyturvy-dream @padfoot0415 @omgjasminesimone @parkerattano @cordoniasmost @poor-bi-choices @msjpuddleduck @mallorycortez @coffeebeandragon @lizeboredom @perriewinklenerdie @greek-elsa

Other Parts: PART ONE - PART TWO - PART THREE

EE! News exclusive! Examining Suiko Hono’s not-so-sweet persona.

When we first met the One In A Million winner, she was relatable, awkward, sweet -- everything you’d expect from a small town girl launched into the spotlight. However, since then, we’ve had a peek behind that innocent exterior to the conniving woman beneath.

We all swooned when she announced her relationship with seasoned heart-breaker Raleigh Carrera. The two were #goals in every picture we saw! (Click here for EE! News’ coverage of their first date) They seemed to balance each other so perfectly, even prompting Carrera to temporarily give up his rebellious ways. However, their relationship was put on hold when pictures surfaced of Carrera with another woman!

Yup, you already know: that was Leona Lastrum, Raleigh’s girlfriend of just over a year. The same week as the pictures surfaced, Hono was seen with none other than Avery Wilshere, our favorite Brit.

How has she snagged two major singers so early on in her career? Many fans are wondering exactly what her reasons are behind these romantic endeavors.

“When we were in high school, Suiko was always stringing along guys so they’d do what she wanted,” said an old classmate of Hono’s that reached out to EE! News. “My friend went to prom with her, only to find out that she’d asked a couple other guys and went with whichever one got her the most expensive corsage.”

You heard it here first! Suiko Hono, so-called sweetheart, is as calculating as a woman can be! The real question we’re all asking is this: when will Raleigh and Avery be free of her control?

Suiko felt tears pricking at her eyes as she read the article for what felt like the thousandth time. This was bad. So, so bad. Fiona insisted it was fine -- it would blow over soon, and her follower counts kept going up for whatever reason -- but it was torture. Still, the articles were never as bad as the comments sections. Even though she knew she wouldn’t like it, she clicked into the comments.

raleighstan290: liked suiko till now lol

averaleigh4ever: avery needs a nice girl not some slut whos talking to other guys, suiko hono needs to go get checked for some stds bc im sure shes crawling with them

honoalltheway: dude how do i change my username on here

Suiko snapped her laptop shut, resisting the urge to chuck it across the room. Nope, that would be bad. Computers were expensive.

How was she supposed to walk into the Vinyls confidently when all of this was hanging over her head? How was she supposed to feign happiness at the invite when all anyone wanted to see was her evilly using Raleigh and Avery?

“That high school interview is such bull,” Suiko told the empty bedroom. She’d gone to prom with Shane, and yes, he’d bought her a corsage, but his mom had picked it out. And they’d gone as friends anyways. No boy looked her way twice in high school. Whoever EE! News had interviewed was an enormous liar.

She felt shivery all over. What she wouldn’t give to be back in her old bedroom, making videos for PlayMe and listening to the radio...Shane only a block or two away...New York City and all of this an unattainable dream.

Was that an ungrateful thought?

Before she could deliberate too much on the issue, Fiona was striding into the bedroom. Suiko hadn’t heard her come in.

“Stop moping,” the woman said, all business, as usual. “You absolutely cannot be making that face at the Vinyls tonight.”

“I won’t.”

Fiona looked at her for a moment more, and then let out a frustrated breath. “Okay. Listen closely. If Ellis knew I was giving you this advice, I’m sure he would disapprove, but I think you’ve wasted enough time wallowing in comments online and self pity.” Suiko stared at her. She continued. “The world loves to tear a woman down. Even when the media thought Raleigh was the cheater, who was the guilty party? The woman who tempted him. Now they’re tearing into you because it’s easy, because they can. But you can lean into that. You don’t have to sit by and let them spin their own story of you. You can take everything they say, and you can become so much worse.”

Suiko’s breath caught. “Become...worse?”

A hint of a smile -- a real smile -- tugged at Fiona’s mouth. “Surprise them. Show up solo to the Vinyls tonight. Show them that you are your own woman, and you aren’t defined by who is or isn’t hanging on your arm. At the end of the day, you aren’t Raleigh’s girlfriend, or Avery’s girlfriend, or anybody’s woman except your own. Force them to accept you as Suiko Hono, and nobody else.”

Silence hung in the room. “Are you, Fiona Syed, giving me permission to not do what the label wants me to do?” Suiko finally said, flabbergasted.

Fiona merely shrugged. “I have no idea what you’re talking about. I was never here.”

Suiko’s dress for the Vinyls was incredible. Crimson chiffon fluttered around her collarbones, swirling into a bustle at her waist before flowing down into a charming tea length skirt. The red fabric matched her stained lips. All at once she was sweet and girlish, fierce and confident, approachable yet a force to be reckoned with.

She’d never loved a dress more.

Zadie seemed to know she’d outdone herself. A smug grin graced her lips as they climbed into the limo and shut the doors. Her stylist was dressed in a classy black dress paired with a string of pearls -- all old Hollywood and grace.

“I’m so honored to be your date tonight,” Zadie snarked. “I didn’t think it would ever be my turn.”

“Oh, shut up,” Suiko said, but she was grinning. Fiona’s words were still bouncing around in her head. You can take everything they say, and you can become so much worse.

Why should she let anything ruin this night for her? She was going to the Vinyls. This was a lifelong dream!

“Now, remember,” Zadie said, enunciating each word carefully. “Do not crease the dress. Do not stain the dress. Do not cry on it and get mascara in the chiffon.”

“Or you’ll kill me?”

Zadie grinned. “I knew I liked you.”

They were pulling up to the venue before long. Zadie wished her good luck as she climbed out of the back seat and onto the red carpet.

Solo.

Everyone noticed immediately. “Suiko! Suiko!” The reporters all pressed forwards, leaving Jaylen Riaz’s side ahead. The other singer caught her eye and pouted playfully. Suiko just lifted a shoulder, like you-know-how-it-is.

Jaylen did know how it was.

“Who’s your date tonight?”

Suiko smiled devilishly. “I didn’t bring one.”

All of the reporters seemed to make one collective gasp. “Did Raleigh finally call it quits?” one demanded, while another said, “Is Avery tired of your games?”

“I decided to come by myself, not because I couldn’t find a date, but because I didn’t want one,” she replied, lifting her chin. Suiko tried to channel her inner Fiona, and hoped it was working. “No more questions.”

She stalked down the carpet and caught up with Jaylen. “Look at you,” the other singer said. “Little miss headlines!”

“Terribly, I guess I deserve that right now.”

They both laughed, and then Jaylen reached down to touch the chiffon of Suiko’s skirt. “Who made your dress?”

“It’s another Zadie Choi original.”

“How much do I have to pay you to switch stylists?”

“We can share,” Suiko said.

Jaylen leaned in closer. “They’re probably wondering why we’re being so friendly,” she said softly.

“Let them!”

Suiko looked down the red carpet and caught sight of both Avery and Raleigh. They stood, separated only by Micah, who was flashing a toothy grin at the cameras. Neither of them had a date either. Let the press chew on that.

“Let’s go inside,” she suggested.

Avery and Raleigh were both nominated for song of the year. For Avery, it was ‘How to Start Again,’ and for Raleigh it was ‘Famous.’ Despite everything, Suiko still wanted Raleigh to win.

Her seat actually ended up being between Avery’s and Jaylen’s. It was probably an attempt to create drama, but there wouldn’t be any. The two women respected each other and understood each other.

Just as she was about to sit, a hand slipped around her elbow, stopping her. Suiko spun to see Avery, dressed in a pink suit, his eyebrows knit closely together.

Her mouth dried. “I...”

The blonde shook his head. “No need to say a thing. I understand that we were never a true option.” A rueful smile tugged at his lips. “But I value our friendship, and I want it to continue.”

“Me too,” she said gratefully, and slipped her hands into his. “You’re a good friend, Avery. I don’t want to lose that.”

He pulled her into a hug. She leaned gratefully into the embrace. “Nice suit, by the way,” she muttered into his ear. “Very Gatsby-esque.”

“It’s what I strive for,” he said, with an easy laugh, and they took their seats.

Chris Winters was hosting the Vinyls. He breezed easily through the show, cracking jokes at all the right times and grinning amicably at the camera crews. Suiko felt Avery tense next to her as the next words boomed through the crowd: “And now, the category you’ve all been waiting for: song of the year!”

She tore her eyes away from the stage and did what she hadn’t yet allowed herself to do -- look for Raleigh. He didn’t seem to be anywhere near her. Suiko’s heart sank. Ever since the cameras had caught them in the closet at the charity event, he’d been distant from her, not calling or texting or responding to any press comments.

It hurt.

“And the Vinyl goes to...” Chris called onstage, a bright smile on his face, “Raleigh Carrera, with ‘Famous!’“

The whole audience exploded into cheers as the song came pouring in from all directions.

Suiko turned to Avery, worried that he would be disappointed, but he was clapping and hollering with the rest of the crowd. Despite herself, she smiled at him.

And then there he was, emerging from the masses and making his way onstage. She hadn’t gotten a good look at him on the red carpet.

But now...

Her breath caught. Raleigh wore a suit of dark red velvet embroidered with golden patterns of roses. The double breasted jacket showed a peek of a cream silk shirt beneath, unbuttoned to show off his collarbones. His dark curls seemed to catch and fling the light around the room.

Chris handed him his award and Raleigh effortlessly took the microphone. “Thank you,” he said into it, voice smooth and sultry. “It means a lot to me that my music still matters to you all, after all this time.” He tapped the statue to his chest. “And I hope my new music can inspire a whole new generation of hell-raisers.”

Beside him, Chris Winters visibly winced.

“And now,” Raleigh said, his voice echoing through the sound system, “I’ll sing you all my new single.”

The crowd went wild. Suiko just stared up at him. He seemed so far away. And then he began singing.

But he wasn’t singing the new single of his she’d heard in the studio.

It was a new song, one that she’d never heard before.

She’s made of marble, or made of glass

If dropped she’ll shatter, or maybe outlast

Fashioned to what you want her to be

Time for all you fuckers to see --

Raleigh’s eyes locked with hers, and suddenly he wasn’t far away anymore; suddenly it was just the two of them, in the dark room, and the words were only for her ears. As his lips moved, he unbuttoned his jacket, flinging it from his shoulders and across the stage. Beneath it, his shirt clung to his torso, crossed with a pair of garnet suspenders.

She’s more than a plaything to me

What’s underneath is worth it all

But assholes like you can never see

She’d more than a plaything to me.

The track kept playing, but Raleigh stopped singing. He just stood as the music swelled behind him and stared at her. The crowd started murmuring -- had he forgotten the words? Was someone speaking into his earpiece?

Then he spoke.

“Leona Lastrum is a liar,” he said, his voice booming through the auditorium. Suiko saw people on the sides of the stage gesturing wildly to cut his mic. Whatever they were doing wasn’t enough, because he kept going.

“I had no idea who she was until she threw herself all over me at that club. What you didn’t see pictures of was me shoving her off.” His lip curled. “So I’ll only say this one time. The next person I see dragging Suiko Hono through the mud has it coming.”

Almost as if in a dream, Suiko felt herself standing. Raleigh gazed at her from the stage.

“Everything you’ve read about this girl...it’s all lies. You don’t know her, but I do. And I know that she’s kind, and thoughtful, and exactly the type of person that makes me want to be better. She’s like no one else. And if you believe, even for one second, any of those lies that are spreading about her, you don’t even deserve to speak her name. Because...” Raleigh swallowed, and a small, almost sheepish smile crept across his face. “Because I love her.”

“Go!” Jaylen was hissing, eyes bright with excitement, pushing her towards the stage. “Jesus, Suiko, go up there!”

The backing track to Raleigh’s song ended, and the venue was dead silent. She heard every one of her footsteps to the stage with complete clarity. As she got closer, Raleigh’s face grew more and more nervous. He didn’t know what she was going to say.

She wasn’t going to say anything.

Suiko ran the last distance across the stage and launched herself into Raleigh’s arms, pressing her lips against his, grasping his suspenders in her shaking fingers to draw him closer to her. His arms instantly wrapped around her, drawing her close, and relief poured into the kisses he pressed to her mouth, and the lights were so bright that she could see them through her shuttered eyelids, and the crowd was screaming around them. He was kissing her as if is sustained him -- kissing her in a way that was definitely not appropriate for the Vinyls, mouth wide open against hers.

“Do you really love me?” she whispered against his lips, opening her eyes a little.

Raleigh let out a laugh. “Yes.”

“Good. Because I love you too.”

Giddy, with the face of a boy who’d gotten everything he wanted for Christmas, Raleigh leaned in for another kiss and dipped her elegantly, to the delight of the audience.

If one could die of happiness, in that moment, she would.

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