#i would love it if we got a batgirl origin story in one of these batman movies more screen time for babs!!!

[keemitthefeog]

ok but priah ferguson being a young barbara gordon in the batman(2022) -verse

[theflashjaygarrick]

One thing I keep thinking about is because superhero comics are simultaneously niche and cultural icons, the general public understanding of characters can be starkly different to the actual medium. Often this is harmless fun but it can be a problem considering arcs about female and minority characters often suffer in the realm of reprints and adaptations, and therefore never have the same impact on the public consciousness. And I think this explains the erasure of Oracle.

Yes, Killing Joke was misogynistic as hell and as a massive Barbara fan I have serious issues with it. But then what Kim Yale and John Ostrander did with Oracle in year one was moving, beautiful and undeniably feminist. I'm not disabled but I got serious chills reading the story and it is honestly one of my favourite comics. From there she grew to become a staple in the DC universe and helped launch the wildly successful Birds of Prey superhero team.

And she was a disabled hero who was psychologically complex and kickass in a fight. She also was seen as an attractive woman who had love interests like Dick Grayson. She got to train the next generation of Batgirls. As Oracle Babs thrived.

Not to mention according to Scott Peterson's article on DC women kicking ass, the creative team at the time were seeing an overwhelming positive response to Oracle from people who saw themselves on the pages of a superhero comic for the first time thanks to Babs:

"we were the ones getting the mail from disabled fans. We were the ones reading letters about how much Oracle meant to them, how much it meant to see someone in a situation so much like their own, someone who by then had been come such an important part of the DCU, treated with respect and admiration by not only Superman and Black Canary, but by the Batman, a guy who treated pretty much no one with respect." (Scott Peterson, 2011)

But if you look at the mainstream perception, her success is less obvious.

Batgirl has always struggled in adaptations, and Oracle even more so. The versions of Oracle that have been translated onto film and TV haven't caught in public imagination in the same way, to the point she was straight up cut out of the recent Birds of Prey film.

Not to mention Killing Joke is one of the most iconic Batman stories of all time that not only has been reprinted countless times but was one of the select few comic arcs to be adapted into animation. Contrarily, Oracle Year One was reprinted in English once after the original date: the Batgirl 50 years celebration. This collection is expensive and not something you would buy without considerable investment in the Batgirls. It certainly isn't one that would show up if you google 'best batman comics'.

If you see this you understand why people marginally invested in DC mythos considered her return to batgirl was seen by some as a feminist move, rather than an ableist one. Gone were her years of development, one of the most powerful information brokers in DC, and two other beloved Batgirls. And the real insult: killing joke was still canon. Yes, they kept the misogynistic violence and ditched the disability rep and the character growth. And that is despite the fact Killing Joke was made to be part of an else world, not main continuity.

[zahri-melitor]

New(ish) Comics:

Birds of Prey #13: That was a clever use of Cass to finish the storyline. Kelly Thompson's generated enough good will from me at this point that yeah, I'd consider her as one of the strongest Birds of Prey writers since Dixon and Simone, though Sean McKeever probably still edges her out (McKeever had a stronger lead in though to work from, and so many people barely distinguish his work from Simone's).

I'm interested to see where Thompson takes them from here. I certainly still have quibbles (I would love to see a commitment to using Barbara as Oracle only appear on page; I do think Thompson is having way too much fun trying to play with ALL the characters and needs to focus a bit more on the ones she has already), but I'm never disappointed by the title? I enjoy myself.

Batman #152: I've got to say, as someone who has also played around with Darkseid powers, I enjoyed that Bruce acknowledged on page that Omega Beams do weird shit on occasion, revolving around what Darkseid wants, and that Bruce would in fact be cautious of them in ways other people are not. I'm not sure as a story it accomplishes a lot as an an Absolute Power tie-in (mostly I think it's just keeping Bruce out of the way while other characters get focus in the main titles), but I did appreciate the use of the Batman #79 callback to the Beach Holiday Of Explicitly Taking Time For Ourselves While The Children Are Dealing With Drama, because Bruce and Selina and holidays at the beach and on cruises is a long running theme together and I never hate seeing it pop up.

Putting the Birds of Prey Absolute Power set up into the back of this made sense in terms of comics pricing and keeping the number of event comics contained, but also probably needed to be better signalled. Read this AFTER BOP #13.

The Boy Wonder #5: and Juni Ba caps his story off.

This was sweet! In the spectrum of non-canonical or dubiously-canonical retellings of origin stories, I think this straddled the line pretty well, particularly in how it was explicitly pitched as a story someone was telling. Some of the resolution in the final issue was a bit pat for me (in terms of we all moved forward and solved things), but the focus stayed where it needed to be (on Damian and Damian's connections), and plenty of the implications were significantly creepier than Smol Damian here realised.

This would sit happily beside the Demon Trilogy as a quasi-canonical Al Ghul story. I think Dennis O'Neil would have appreciated it.

DC's I Know What You Did Last Crisis #1:

Honestly my opening thought on this was 'why did anyone offer Dan DiDio a writing slot'? Because, I've read a bunch of DiDio's work, and part of the situation with him at DC has always been that he's a mediocre writer that wouldn't rate a title if he hadn't already been working in editorial/management. His credits don't actually contain any stories and titles that people are big fans of, and a lot of his work was done collaboratively with stronger writers (if you're writing with Keith Giffen, I suspect Giffen is handling a lot of the actual plotting work and charm).

Okay rant out of the way:

Batgirl-COIE story: I don't mind this, but I feel like if I were going to pitch a Barbara story at this point I'd want it more in communication with Barbara Randall Kesel's work. I'd have Barbara acknowledge the Krypto stuffed dog and maybe bond with the kid over "I had a teddy called Supergirl". Also, this is...very early for 'Waylon likes kids'. Like, decades too early. Croc's characterisation feels far later than when this story is set.

Dr Light-Millennium: It's not bad as a horror piece, but as a few other people have noted, I feel it wastes the aspect of 'the Manhunters are hidden among us' inherent in their portrayal in the event. Nice moment spent with a few characters who don't get much page time though.

Birds of Prey-Final Night: this very much feels like a missing tie in! Which we didn't get, because BOP had the Manhunt mini instead during that period. Ashley Allen has a good grasp on the time frame and events going on for this. My one quibble is having Dinah working in Gotham here, as Barbara still was focusing on world-roaming problems at this point over local ones, but otherwise, it slotted in very nicely.

JSA-Zero Hour: This is fine. I will say the quip about "the number of Bat-people" for Zero Hour feels a bit thin. You mean, Batman, Nightwing, Robin, ... Huntress and Spoiler? Steph has barely had her second ever storyline, the only person in Gotham who trusts Helena is Tim, JPV is busy dealing with having been insane, and Dick's been home for five minutes. They literally just finished a multi-year event about how Bruce didn't have the support he needed.

Nightwing-Infinite Crisis: it's just sad and pathetic that Dan DiDio remains so mad that his staff rebelled and wouldn't let him kill Dick Grayson. It was almost two decades ago. Why are you still having a tantrum about this publicly? It's not even worth addressing the characterisation, as it's just an attempted take-that that makes him look worse.

Scarecrow-Blackest Night: ...if you're going to set something at the Monarch Theatre maybe take 5 seconds to check the wiki about what was happening with the location around the time of the story. It was not a functioning movie theatre, folks, and we're just prior to The Carpenter's Tale. I dunno. This one felt like a waste of the setting.

Lex Luthor-Final Crisis: look I don't enjoy Final Crisis, but this is incredibly set during Final Crisis. This feels like pretty solid Lex characterisation and introspection, and I'm sure he hates that he's hallucinating a Superman to talk down to.

Midnighter-Flashpoint: I dunno, the characterisation feels off for both Pyg and Midnighter. It's fine, but I would have preferred another story that really felt like a missing backup from an event.

My general overarching opinion? Most of the writers could have used a bit closer attention to context for their stories, if you're playing "this is set during". That's something people can check.

The Warlord #66: I just checked and we are so close to halfway through volume 1 of the Warlord! They simply do not commission 133 issue runs plus annuals of random conspiracy titles anymore. Anyway this week in Skartaris Mongo Ironhand remains the worst. Also Mariah and Mikola finally get to talk to each other and Mariah tells her lost werewolf fencing instructor lover that she's actually now got the hots for an ex-gladiator with a spiked mace for a fist. (Oh, Skartaris)

There is tragically very little discussion of communism. Get back to preaching about the benefits of communism, Mariah!

Also we fight a demon (who transformed from the Gollum creature like...30 issues earlier), Mariah tricks him into stabbing himself in the eyesocket with a trick sword, Jennifer defeats him with magic, they throw the magic book the demon was using into a volcano vent to destroy it, and the men are largely all useless.

Thank you, that has been our back in pre-history LOTR rip off of the week.

[dailycass-cain]

I'm just as surprised as you are to find out Cass had an appearance in DC's How to Lose a Guy Gardner in 10 Days #1, and not in the way I was expecting.

Was it good or a pass?

Well...

Cass appears in "Date Night" in the anthology story which is more a Dick/Babs story about well the two of them going out on a date. Cass and Steph are basically on a mission checking out something Babs had an inkling things would be bad.

Things do end up being bad.

Alright, I'll just jump in about said bad.

Yeah, this is a supporting role for Cass (along with Steph) in the story. I don't really mind that. Dick/Babs are the leads in this and I'm okay with that.

What I'm not okay with is how the story treats the two Batgirls as amateurs.

Okay, I get the "Scarecrow got the drop on them" opening because neither knew Crane was behind this until fear gas canisters were being loaded.

So that I don't mind. Mainly it's the sections of panels like above saying, "Make sure you do things like Dick is doing."

I didn't like it when Batgirls pulled this off in #5 when Babs showed up and it wore out its welcome in #7-8 (and the Catwoman #45 tie-in).

I get Cass/Steph are younger compared to Dick/Babs but they aren't "rookies". The year is 2024 not 2002.

Just cut down the dialogue to the first sentence. Bam, gripe solved. It's simple word fixing that gets fans of said characters off-backs because it at least treats the characters as being experienced rather than not.

We do get one whole page of Cass/Steph busting the criminals introduced earlier looking to take advantage of Scarecrow's schemes (aka the B-protags taking out the B-antags).

In all honesty, I think the reverse should've occurred. Dick/Babs taking out the B-antags (as they were introduced via being a few tables from them) and well Scarecrow gets his comeuppance from Steph-- AGAIN (or them/Dick being him with Bruce/Helena/Kate in "Shadow of the Bat".

I'm done being nitpicky so I'm gonna talk about the positives aka that whole page and how artist Leonardo Rodrigues draws a nice old-school Cass. No white eyes and we even get the bat fins on her gloves.

NICE.

I think the one detail I loved most was the yellow stitching which does make Cass's mask more striking.

The one page is also a nice little touch showcasing Cass/Steph getting SOME measure of respect by owning the B-antags.

In the end, this is a harmless "fluff" tale that's not gonna be much looked at like Cass's entry from Beast World Tour: Gotham a few months back. Both are kind of forgettable save the latter's being the first mention of her old origin (Steph's story really stole that one-shot).

I'd be more frustrated if this was Cass's only showing this week (it isn't) and really it's because of THE OTHER comic that makes me less cross.

Stephanie fans?

Oh, they deserve to criticize MORE on this.

As for it being a Dick/Babs story?

It's alright.

Nothing memorable as to "why" they work as a couple. They were both paranoid enough to know their date night was gonna get ruined. But at least they're both Bat enough to have "plans within plans."

So yeah, this story is just "there". Doesn't give us adequate Cass/Steph (because it isn't their story), and Dick/Babs stuff is "middle of the road".

Given where both characters are at the moment, yeah "middle of the road" will do.

[igotthisaccountunderduress]

i loveee all the batfam content but I’ve only seen the Christian Bale movies! How do I go about meeting them?

I would be thrilled to introduce you! The Christian Bale movies are really good, so you've already got a good starting point. If you want to read the comics here's a list I previously made to help people get started:

ok, if you want origin stories, Batman: Year One, Robin: Year One, and Batgirl: Year One are a great place to start. Then read Nightwing: Year One and Oracle: Year One (Batman Chronicles issue #5) to follow Robin's and Batgirl's stories. Batman #408 onwards will introduce you to the famous Jason Todd.

If you want to be introduced to a lot of characters from all over DC, Injustice is a great series to read (it's in a parallel universe tho, so not all of it is canonical).

If you want to meet a lot of the batfamily all at once, read Batman: Eternal and Batman and Robin: Eternal.

If you want a badass girl squad, read Birds of Prey (1999-2009). And if you want more Nightwing, read Nightwing (1996-2009), there's a lot of crossovers with the aforementioned Birds of Prey.

If you want Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon content, read Batgirl (2009).

If you want just Batman, The Long Halloween and The Court of Owls are great.

You can find most, if not all, of these comics on the DC Infinite app or at your local library.

One last thing! The comics are split up into different eras, each marked by a universe-changing event. This means that they might contradict each other, since each era is technically its own parallel universe:

Pre-Crisis is from the beginning until 1985, when the Crisis on Infinite Earths series was released.

Post-Crisis is after that until 2011.

Then the New 52 universe began with Flashpoint.

Rebirth started after that with Convergence in 2016.

In 2021, DC Infinite Frontier became the new universe.

And in 2023, the Dark Crisis caused the Dawn of DC.

Ok, so if you don't want to read comics or just want to be less confused while reading, there's an intro to all the characters under the read more

Stop me if you already know this, but the basic premise is that Bruce keeps finding random kids and other vigilantes and they join him in his cause. And we call them a family but it's more like found family bc many of them aren't adopted/don't fit into a stereotypical family structure.

So these three you already know:

Bruce Wayne/Batman - his parents were killed so he became Batman to protect the city. uber rich, genius, martial artist. REALLY bad at feelings. he cares about people but doesn't know how to express it.

Alfred Pennyworth - Bruce's butler/father figure and really the only responsible one in the group. British. Everyone respects and loves him.

Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Bruce's frenemy? love interest? She's a cat-burglar, and altho he's an illegal vigilante he draws the line at stealing, so sometimes they're dating and sometimes he's trying to arrest her.

Next there's the kids:

Richard "Dick" Grayson/Robin/Nightwing - a big brother with eldest daughter syndrome. he grew up in a traveling circus, which visited Gotham and his parents were killed. Bruce happened to be in the audience, and took now-orphaned Dick home with him. Dick, whose stage name/nickname was Robin, joined Bruce in crimefighting and used his stage name as an alias. When Dick was about 19, they had a big fight and he left to become Nightwing (they've made up by now). Dick acts like a sunshine golden boy but he's got issues. so many issues.

Barbara Gordon/Batgirl/Oracle - my pfp and beloved. Commissioner Gordon's daughter, who wanted to join the police force but was forbidden by her dad. So she became a vigilante instead, and since Batman was the current legend in Gotham, she borrowed some street cred by becoming Batgirl. Bruce tried to shut her down, but she convinced him to train her instead. When Barbara was about 19, the Joker shot and paralyzed her from the waist down. So she became Oracle, an internet vigilante, myth among criminals, and the coordinator of both the Justice League and the Birds of Prey, two of the most powerful superhero teams on the planet (since then she's had surgery and implants and she's not 100% paralyzed anymore). Oh yeah, and she's a certified genius with an eidetic (photographic) memory. She's got anger issues (mostly due to the assault) and doesn't play nice with others, but is one of the most compassionate people you'll ever meet.

Jason Todd/Robin/Red Hood - the heartthrob of the fandom. He was living on the street when Bruce found him stealing the tires off the Batmobile. He became the second Robin, but a few months after Joker shot Barbara, he killed Jason. Not a good year for anybody. Jason got resurrected, but didn't quite come back right. Oh yeah, and he was angry bc Joker was still alive. So he became a crime lord, Red Hood, bc he recognized that nobody could ever rid Gotham of crime but he could control it. He's sarcastic; a literature nerd; has anger issues, daddy issues, and mommy issues galore; and also has a soft spot for kids.

Timothy Drake/Robin/Red Robin - he's Not Ok. Used to follow Batman and Robin around at night and take pictures. Figured out their identities and when Jason died, Batman started getting out of control. So little Tim stepped in and became Robin to save Bruce from himself. He eventually "graduated" from Robin to Red Robin. He's a genius, and he's probly got depression among other issues.

Cassandra Cain/Orphan/Batgirl - she was trained by her dad to be a living weapon, then Bruce found her and took her under his wing. Due to the abusive childhood, she never learned how to speak but is really good at reading people. She's been learning English since she joined the fam. Babs was training her for awhile and let her use the Batgirl name. She's arguably the best martial artist on earth, due to the "living weapon" thing, and she's scarily good at hiding in shadows. She's sweet, but don't let that fool you, she's just as unhinged as the rest.

Stephanie Brown/Spoiler/Batgirl - resident blonde of the group. They all tend to underestimate her, but she's brilliant, especially when it comes to logic puzzles/riddles. She's sometimes impulsive, but also great at improvising. Her dad is a villain and all-around jerk, so she became Spoiler to spoil his plans. One day Robin!Tim tried to unmask her and she hit him in the head with a brick, leading to Steph joining the Batfam as Robin. When Cass stepped down from Batgirl for awhile, she gave Steph the role, and Steph trained with Babs. Now Cass is back and Babs got surgery, so they're all Batgirl at the same time (which is really confusing).

Damian Wayne/Robin - nobody knew about Dami until Talia al Ghul (she was in The Dark Knight Rises) (don't believe the allegations about her they come from a sexist writer she's lovely) dropped him on Bruce's doorstep when he was ten. Dami is the only one of Bruce's "kids" that's his biological son. He's got issues from his upbringing, cuz he's been training with the League since he was born and that's a lot for a kid. He loves animals and tolerates people. He's also really obesessed with becoming Batman when Bruce steps down.

Duke Thomas/Signal - idk a lot about Duke, he's a relatively new addition. He has meta powers, which none of the others do. He started his own gang based off the idea of Robin, got noticed by the Batfam, and joined them as Signal.

Those are the main characters, but there's also:

Kate Kane/Batwoman - Bruce's cousin. Ex-military.

Talia al Ghul - mentioned above. Dami's mom. Ra's daughter. Bruce's sometimes love interest.

Harley Quinn - Used to be a brilliant psychologist. Met the Joker and kinda went insane. Dated him for awhile, but as you might expect he was abusive and awful so now she's single and sometimes a criminal, sometimes a vigilante.

And cuz I like talking about this and you opened a can of worms, here's the canonical ships within the family:

DickBabs - they date off and on. they've both had crushes on each other since they were kids. the ultimate friends to lovers. my otp.

TimSteph - They dated for a bit, I think they broke up around the time Steph became Batgirl.

BatCat - Bruce x Selina. Seems like they're either dating or frenemies. There was a whole thing with a wedding once that didn't really follow through.

BruTalia - Bruce x Talia. they were dating when they had Dami, but I don't think they are anymore? there's always romantic tension with both BatCat and BruTalia.

[ravenkinnie]

Do you have any thoughts on good/bad/worthwhile Cassandra Cain storylines? Her introduction/origin years ago was uhh not good (i.e., mega-racist even by Batbook standards), but I figure a bazillion lesbians can't be wholly wrong (except about TSwift and maybe The L Word).

here is the thing, if you wanna read about a character of color in comics you gotta accept it will be a little to very racist. I'm pretty sure being racist is just a requirement to be a comics writer, like they make you take a racial bias test and only hire people with highest scores. and hilariously I can't guess which introduction you mean because I realise that her og-og origin also falls under some racist stereotypes but new52 was just a full on massacre jsnsjsj

I need to caveat that the storylines in her solo will have art so racist it will make your eyes water sometimes, that's why it's so hard ro recommend it sjsjsjks but I genuinely think the first few arcs from it are great, even though it's funny as fuck that they realised cass not speaking at all was either a lil racist or not very good for carrying a solo and they magicked her the ability to speak but it DID lead to the shiva arc and that was fucking crazy amd i haven't seen a batfam mf go this hard since then. on the flipside some of the later arcs and the annuals are.... oh girl. apart from racism even, they are just choppy and messy and nothing was ever gonna go anywhere because dc hated my girl and wanted her gone so she's not allowed to have any meaningful storylines connected to batfam or yk. anything really

and its only worse from here, like the whole evil cass arc after that leading to batgirl redemption is straight up infamous because of how stupid it is. it's pointless and it brings nothing and was never gonna be resolved because every man at dc secretly imagines their wife is deathstroke when they fuck so it's not like cass will actually get her dues at the end of all that. it was literally her death and the maidens and that shit sucked even less somehow

and that was the good era <3 n52 outsiders was okay, not very preboot cass accurate and shiva wasn't that in character necessarily but its not physically painful to read. but her introduction was fucking batman and robin eternal and I think whoever thought of this panel in particular

needs to be in fucking prison for the irreperable damage this did to fanon. and also whoever came up with tim saying because she can't talk she must have the mind of a chuld - oh if I got my hands on tynion for this. oh bitch

rebirth doesn't even deserve a mention because it was just boring. now we have batgirls as her main comic and I hate that fucking thing with my entire heart like I would pay a turkish witch to curse everybody involved in making this. the way they said they wrote them to be about 14 I'm gonna have a fucking heart attack just remembering it. from newer stuff the only things I would say are worth attention is her story in the asian heritage month special - not crazy good but its okay - and spirit world but it's not that focused on her. still a fun read tho

also, preboot, there are some REALLY good one off issues with her that you would never think to read because they are buried in other runs. my faves are gotham knights #2, dc presents batgirl vs joker, gotham secret files and origins, and batgirl secret files

tldr: if you want to stan cass you have to accept you will suffer. there's no joy to be found here, even in the good arcs. thankfully, I'm delusional and love pain so the potential they never made her live up to is enough to drive me crazy for eternity and one day I will suck off a dc editor so good they will let me write a cass solo with full creative control and jh williams on art and I will have my revenge. and they will all be sorry

[theconstitutionisgayculture]

Sorry another zoomer anon about comics

Actually I was referring to new 52 about batgirl and Starfire. Did you know new 52 stated that Starfire don’t remember people names unless she had sex with them?

Obviously that was ignored and retcon to hell and back. But comic writers, there a difference between being a sexual liberating woman vs being a hentai slut

Also about a year ago iirc, the old head of DC Dan Didio (who responsible for the mess that was new 52 and 2010’s shit) said that comics lost a generation of heroes because mines wasn’t interested in superheroes…during the height of the MCU

Pssst Didio let me tell you something, there something called the internet so my generation can look up the history of dc and marvel comics.

We are not getting emotionally invested in comics who are handle by fuckers with the mentality of a ten year old

So we went to manga and hmm, what that popular shounen?

MY FUCKING HERO ACADEMIA! YOU DIDN’T LOSE A GENERATION OF READERS BECAUSE THEY WEREN’T INTERESTED IN SUPERHEROES! YOU LOST THEM BECAUSE WE CAN SMELL SHITTY COMICS LIKE HOW A BLOODHOUND SMELLS PISS!!

Ugh, how…out of touch these fuckers are?

Also you guys made it damn near impossible to get easy access to comics so manga is far easier to get. Obviously you can….but a comic shop is a huge luxury item

Sorry for this essay rant, and I only been into comics for ten fucking years

Pssst Didio let me tell you something, there something called the internet so my generation can look up the history of dc and marvel comics.

OMG YES. THIS. FUCK.

Sorry, about to hijack this ask to go on a rant but my God I fucking hate this idea that people can only ever be interested in things that they experience in real time. It's such bullshit. Do you know what I wasn't alive for? The original run of Spider-Man written by Stan Lee. You know what my favorite Spider-Man stories are? The original run of Spider-Man written by Stan Lee. I got into Spider-Man because of the 90s animated series on Fox Kids. From there, I got a few of the comics that were running at the time, and from there I found the Marvel Masterworks collections and absolutely devoured the older stories. And even for books I didn't really have much interest in like Captain America or Iron Man, I would get Marvel Encyclopedias and learn about the pasts and presents of all the comic characters, even some I'd never heard of. True fans will always seek out the past of the things they love. You think people who fell in love with the Lord of the Rings movies aren't devouring The Silmarillion? You think the kid whose first Star Wars experience is seeing The Mandalorian isn't going back and watching the original trilogy? You think someone whose only experience with Batman is the Nolan Trilogy isn't going to find and absolutely love Frank Miller's Batman Year One? Of course they are. True fans don't have blinders. True fans will educate themselves on the things they love.

You know who won't, though? You know who just consumes the things that are put in front of them and will never go beyond that, either through laziness or because they don't want to see anything that's "old" or "out of touch"?

Tourists.

Tourists are great during tourist season, but very few come back every year. And in the off-season, it's the locals who keep the place running. You can't always depend on tourists. They'll happily move onto the next big tourist destination at the drop of a hat. But the locals, the true fans? They'll always be there. They'll be buying books, buying merch, going to the movies, generating enthusiasm, organizing conventions, and everything else that comes along with being a true fan. The only things that will drive them away are when the people in charge of the things they love attack them personally or change the things they love into something unrecognizable. And even then, most will still love the thing as it used to be. The fans who hate Rings of Power didn't throw out their Lord of the Rings Extended Edition blu-ray collections. The fans who hate Disney Star Wars didn't smash their original VHS copies of the unaltered original trilogy. And true fans aren't just old fans or original fans. The thing about being a local is that anyone can move into town. And if they stay long enough and fit into the local culture, everyone else will embrace them.

So fuck Didio and everyone else who thinks tourists are the only group that matters. Fuck everyone who thinks that "modern audiences" can't love something from a different era with different stories and different characters from what everyone else is shitting out today. It's bullshit, and it always has been.

[nyhti]

Hello! If you don't mind it, do you have any favorite Pre-Crisis comics or issues you would consider required reading for that era? Thank you!

Ok ok ok. Lissen. I tried. I really did. The thing is that pre-crisis is a looooooooong era. It wasn't easy going through 47 years of bathistory and try and pick notable moments, especially because what counts as notable is very subjective. Also I just simply wouldn't consider myself a bathistorian. I mean, I only really care about the rogues, you know me. But! I tried! Here are some moments, that I think are noteworthy, or otherwise interesting. I wrote down why I think each issue is interesting, so you can decide for yourself if you think it's worth reading or not. I know I put things in here that other people might find filler stories and also left out things that some might consider really important (for example, you will find no Justice League here, as I just never cared about them.) It's my list, so it will have my biases. I hope I got all issue numbers and years correct. I was going to go through them one more time to check but........... I don't want to. Also, some of these I read literally years ago, so my memory of them might be hazy. Anyway, I hope you find at least a couple issues on this list you like :33 Golden Age (1938-1956) Detective Comics #27 (1939) ”The Case of the Chemical Syndicate” First Batman story Detective Comics #38 (1940) ”Robin the Boy Wonder” Dick's First appearance Batman #1 (1940) The first two Joker stories, the first Catwoman story and the second Hugo story. Really not a single skippable story in this one Batman #16 (1943) ”Here comes Alfred” Alfred's first appearance Detective Comics #83 (1944) ”Accidentally on Purpose” Alfred gets a makeover and starts looking like the Alfred we know and love today Batman #35 (1946) ”Dinosaur Island” Where the dinosaur in the Batcave came from World's Finest Comics #30 (1947) ”The Penny Plunderers” Where the giant penny is from Detective Comics #168 (1951) "The Man Behind the Red Hood" Joker's first origin story Superman #76 (1952) ”The Mightiest Team in the World” First Batman/Superman team up. They learn each other's identities. It's so fanfic-y. They actually have to share a room on a cruise, because there are too many people aboard. Only thing missing is if there was only one bed. Detective Comics #233 (1956) ”The Bat-Woman” First appearance of the original Batwoman Kathy Kane Silver Age (1956-1970)

World's Finest Comics #88 (1957) ”Superman and Batman's Greatest Foes!” First Joker/Lex Luthor team-up The Flash #123 (1961) ”Flash of two Earths” Not a Batman story, but quintessential to the lore as this is the introduction of the multiple earths Batman #164 (1964) ”Two-Way Gem Caper” Debut of the ”new look”. They refreshed the artstyle here. There are also other changes like the elevator to the batcave and a new batmobile among other things. This also starts my favorite era in bathistory, 1964 to 1970. Sooo many interesting things happened here. Detective Comics #327 (1964) ”The Mystery of the Menacing Masks” New look debut in Detective Comics Detective Comics #328 (1964) ”Gotham Gang Line-up” Alfred dies and we get aunt Harriet instead This story continues in: Detective Comics: #334, 336, 340 and 349 but if you want, you could just skip to: Detective Comics #356 (1966) ”The Inside Story of the Outsider” Alfred returns. Detective Comics #359 (1967) ”The Million Dollar Debut of Batgirl” Barbara's first appearance Detective Comics #387 (1969) ”The Cry of Night is – ”Sudden Death”” A modern re-telling of the first Batman story. Well, modern by 60s standards, but that's what I love about it so. Detective Comics #389 (1969) "Batman's evil eye" Here the writers are really longing back for the days of old when Batman was spooky and goffik. Also!! It's a Scarecrow story woooooooooo!!! My favorite Scarecrow story, in fact! Really the only villain you could've had in a story like this. Batman #217 (1969) ”One Bullet Too Many!” Dick leaves for Hudson university and Bruce and Alfred move to a penthouse in the city. Bronze Age (1970-1986) Batman #251 (1973) ”The Joker's Five-Way Revenge!” This is the issue where Joker starts murdering again Detective Comics #457 (1976) "There is No Hope in Crime Alley" Re-telling of Batman's origins. The first appearance of Leslie Thompkins my beloved. Just an all around good fucking story. Detective Comics #469-476 (1977-1978) Steve Englehart's run. Really a must read Batman #348 (1982) ”Shadow Play” Bruce, Dick and Alfred return to Wayne Manor. Also a Man-Bat story! Yippieeeeeee! Batman #357 (1983) ”Squid” Jason's first appearance (for one panel only, though) Detective Comics #525 (1983) ”Confrontation” First time Jason actually speaks Detective comics #526 (1983) ”All My Enemies Against Me!” Jason's parents die and he plays hero for the first time. Last issue of Gerry Conway's banger run. Also first time Jervis uses mind control (and it's on Jonathan!) Batman #365, Detective Comics #532, Batman #366 (1983) Jason dyes his hair and makes first apperance as Robin, but Bruce doesn't approve. A Joker story. Batman #368 (1984) ”A Revenge of Rainbows” Dick gives Jason his blessing and Jason finally becomes Robin officially. Detective Comics #566, Batman #400 (1986) Last issues of pre-crisis. Rip.

[seeminglyseph]

I know in recent years Marvel has delved into legacy identities way more, and I admit that I mostly know about it because I know about the MCU more than the comics universe and have had legacy heroes sold as either jumping on points, or as the MCU versions of certain characters/ways comics have adapted comic versions to be more similar to movie versions.

But part of me feels like, as someone who originally got interested and passionate about the superhero genre through DC Comics, where legacy heroes were a lot more common and a bigger deal (at least for the era I was reading, I do also remember the nu52 and the period immediately proceeding it involved a lot of like… reactionary un-legacying of a lot of characters which like… honestly resulted in me reading significantly fewer comics) the way for heroes taking up someone’s mantle was paved with like…

Flash, Green Lantern and Robin. And two of those I think we can point to Geoff Johns as to why they’ve stagnated a little. And I might get a lot of shit for that because he’s also created some really fascinating lore for the Green Lanterns, but he *needs* to let go of Hal. I know I personally dislike Hal with the power many would find hypocritical considering I adore Guy, but a character who knows he’s an asshole and everyone agrees is an asshole and a character who is an asshole and everyone is too busy tossing that salad to notice is entirely different and that’s the difference between Hal Jordan and Guy Gardner both being assholes. One is the author’s most favourite character ever and the other clearly sucks at emotional maturity and expression but does at the core have a good heart and intentions.

Barry Allen ruined the world. His sacrifice was great, the world moved on, a whole new generation of fans were attached to Wally and his story, then Geoff Johns continued undoing legacies and broke the whole world and brought back Barry Allen. There could have been potential with him as a man out of time in the timeline he didn’t fit in anymore and had been dead for years, but after Flashpoint he’s genuinely one of my least liked characters because of how much like… “no, it should be like when I was a kid” vibes he brought with him. While Hal’s revival just shook up the status quo of the Green Lantern corp and sucks a little for people who liked Kyle but since the Corp was big enough Kyle and Guy and John still got to have their stories… but Barry came back and not only did Wally get shelved, he stopped existing for a while. Same with Wally’s family like Linda Park-West and his kids Iris and Jai, Bart Allen didn’t exist for a while, a massive swathe of the Flash Family and legacy was completely wiped out. And I think they’ve brought some of them back lately? But I know I spent years with most of my favourite characters just not existing and it just made the idea of The Flash fully not interesting, despite the lore and legacy of the Flash being a favourite.

And Robin… well everyone’s afraid Robin’s too silly to touch let alone actually allow to live out into a legacy. The fact that it’s one of the most poignant that DC has is a shame, but they seem pretty terrified of it. And they keep erasing one or more of them from the lineup and they all served a purpose. You can’t just replace Tim with Damian. They serve entirely different purposes. Why there are canons that skip Tim baffle me. I swear it’s not just because he’s my favourite. I dislike but understand skipping Steph’s time as Robin due to the fumbling of the execution, but honestly I think the Batgirl legacy undo is more egregious for all I think her run as Batgirl was painfully toothless and removed a lot of her characterization. Babsgirl still pisses me off because Oracle was amazing and glorious and they backslid all of that and spit in people’s face while they did it. At least Steph and Cass exist now, they also spent an extended time in purgatory.

It’s hard to love legacy heroes. You never know when they end up on a shelf. Or they suddenly become the side character in someone else’s story after you gain an attachment. They get killed or stuffed into “not a character anymore” purgatory and yelled at at conventions if you ask about them.

And after all that they might end up reimagined in the worst light possible and that becomes the new cannon, because they had a spare character to offer up for a redo. And now you have to explain you liked them before they were made into the popular adaptation that most people think you’re talking about.

[crippledinafunway]

OKAY. I got Gotham Knights since the Steam Holiday Sale is still going on. And in a little over 3 hours it’s crashed straight to desktop twice.

Other than that, I think WB Montreal got so traumatized by the reception they got for Arkham Origins that they decided never to take a chance on anything, or to try being creative ever again.

The game is annoyingly competent, in that the fight mechanics work well and the rpg system makes sense, but it’s done so by the book that there’s no draw to the mechanics at all. They try to make it all about the story- which would be fine!

If they story so far wasn’t… bland.

Now don’t get me wrong; I get it. I see what they tried to do. But it all falls flat. And I think that’s mostly due to the writing.

Jason is the 2-dimensional ‘angry one’. The classic literature-loving, antique book-collecting, Shakespeare-obsessed nerd, is pigeon-holed as the unstable sibling. Having him as the Tanky character? That fits. He’s bigger than Bruce by a somewhat large margin if I’m remembering right. But to just butcher his character like that? No tank you.

Barbara is walking again, a decision the mainstream comics tried and then retconned because it sucked. Even ignoring the ableist discussion, why can’t we have Steph? Or Cass? They’re both SO underutilized it’s not even funny.

Batgirl is, direct from WB, the “closest” you can get to playing as Arkham Batman, since that’s what people were clamoring for. So roll with that! Go with the ONLY member of the Bat-Family that actually WANTS to be Batman after his death/retirement/whatever! Plus having a Batgirl, Hell, ANY superhero who primarily uses ASL and/or has issues with speech and the interpretation of language is a FANTASTIC opportunity!

Dick is white. No need to explain any more there.

Haven’t played as Tim yet because of the aforementioned crashing but I’m sure they’ll butcher him too.

I was letting myself get excited a little! The day one controversy was bull anyway, and once that was fixed I said ‘sure, why not?’. But oof. It’s just. Rough.

And yes I’ll be playing through the whole thing. Don’t look at me like that. I don’t like it either.

[citrinesparkles]

cat.

jason todd, eventually x gender neutral reader. 1,388 words. notes: this is part one of i don't even know how many and i cannot believe how wildly out of hand this got. this was a 500 word idea and it's gonna be at least three parts someone help (thanks to @angelz-dust for being so patient with me and encouraging on this!!! would never have made it out of the drafts without you <3) warnings: danger to kids, mention of a couple arguing, animal illness (spoiler alert: it'll be fine i Promise), a little (lot) different than my usual edit: part two here!

"let me be perfectly clear: if you even think about showing back up here, i will know, and i will make your life a living hell until i finally put you out of your misery. understood?"

"yes! yeah man i get it. understood."

"then i'd get going, if i were you." the man scrambled to his feet and bolted off across the playground, leaving jason to shout after him. "and warn any buddies you might have, too!"

he picked up the discarded knife and pocketed it. he then turned around slowly, hands visibly empty in a careful attempt not to scare the two kids behind him- well, careful not to make it worse, anyway. they, understandably, seemed a little shaken already.

"are you both alright?" he asked softly, slouching just a little to seem as harmless as possible.

probably would have been easier if they hadn't just watched him threaten someone.

the older kid- probably fifteen, if jason had to place a bet- nodded silently before glancing back at the little girl he was still hovering in front of protectively, who was just... staring.

she couldn't have been older than six.

"jazz?" the boy asked, voice tight. "are you hurt?"

he was ignored. "are you superman?"

the question, innocent and earnest and a little timid, made jason laugh. "not quite, kiddo."

she tilted her head like a curious puppy, furrowing her brow. "why are you wearing a jacket?"

jason glanced up at the boy, who seemed comforted by her mini interrogation. good.

talking was a good sign, too, so jason crouched down to meet her at eye level.

"because it gets cold out here!" he said, raising his hands up with a small wiggle of his fingers. "gloves, too."

"well, duh," jazz said with a giggle- a win, jason thought. "no fingerprints."

he nodded. "also helpful."

"and the hat to hide your face!" she said proudly, stepping forward a little to point at his helmet.

"wow, you've got the whole thing figured out, huh?"

"mhm! my friend ricky loves batman and his friends. he talks about batman and nightwing and spoiler and robin and red robin and red hood and batgirl all the time! they hide their faces like you, ricky thinks it's because of bad guys."

"they're kinda cool, huh?"

"nightwing's my favorite," she said firmly, as though it was something she had considered at great length and was fully prepared to defend.

"not red hood?" jason smacked a hand to his chest in mock hurt, shifting back dramatically. "i'm crushed, truly."

"no, ricky says red hood used to be an alien, but then got bored and now he annoys batman for fun instead. that sounds mean."

...well, okay, maybe he did annoy the big guy for fun a little. "that's an interesting theory, all right."

"ricky's got all kinds of theories. he thinks batman's a robot-" jason snorted- "and that nightwing was like pinochle."

"you mean pinocchio," the boy corrected quietly. "pinochle's what gramma plays."

"pinocchio!" she exlaimed, with a "ch" sound in the middle that made jason smile. "a doll that got turned human. that's how he does all the flips and stuff, he's got magic."

"hm, ricky seems like an interesting guy," jason said thoughtfully, making a big show of rubbing the chin of his helmet. "what do y-"

he was cut off by a loud, insistent meow, and jazz gasping even louder before taking off to the bushes.

"w- hey, don't rush off like that!" he said, shooting up off the ground as the boy sighed.

"there's this cat that she's been taking care of," he explained quietly. "the thing's got attitude for days but i think it's sick or something. jasmine's been bringing it little bits of tuna and chicken, but it's not like we can get it to a vet."

jason hummed. "why do you think it's sick?"

"it's thin, with its eyes all watery and sunk."

"might just be malnourished," he muttered.

"she's been trying to find it a home, y'know."

there was a wink-wink-nudge-nudge quality to the kid's voice that did not go unnoticed.

on one hand, it was good to hear something other than fear from him, but on the other... "what part of the tactical armor makes you think i'm an option?"

"the part where you just stuck around to check on us instead of running after that guy."

okay. maybe the quiet thing hadn't been so bad. the cocky 'amateur psychologist' thing was a little grating.

"you the real red hood?" the kid asked suddenly, shaking jason from his internal grumbling.

"what do you think?"

"i think you just saved our lives, and i wanna know who i'm thanking."

jason turned to him with a flourish. "red hood, baby saver extraordinaire. at your service."

"baby- dude, i'm seventeen!"

okay, so he would have lost his bet. "noted. still a baby, trust me."

"what are you under there, twenty something? whatever, grandpa."

jason chuckled, turning back to watch jasmine pet a small cat under one of the yellow lights littering the park. "you did well, looking out for her with that guy. you got a name?"

he scoffed. "would've been better if i'd kicked him between the legs right when he opened his mouth, instead of letting him get started on the whole 'what're you kids doing out so late?' bit," he muttered darkly, pausing for a moment before answering. "my name's jordan."

"well, jordan, what are you guys doing out so late?"

"mom works nights, and the neighbors were fighting. it was loud enough to wake jazz up, and it wasn't the kind of thing she needed to hear. i figured a trip to see her cat would be less awful than hearing them call each other things i wouldn't even call my friends." the breeze picked up, rustling the trees and catching on jason's jacket. "and then the asshole with the knife decided to make a bad night worse."

"is jazz your sister?"

"yeah, she's a good kid," jordan said, fond and warm. "sorry about the whole ricky thing, though. he's obsessed with those vigilante conspiracy videos and tells her all about them at school."

"no, no, it's fine. i can't wait to tell wing about his new origin story, he'll love that."

jasmine suddenly came bounding back towards them, grabbing their hands and yanking them to follow her. "c'mon, you need to meet cat!"

"you call it cat?"

jordan bristled subtly. "is there a problem with that, red?"

"no, no, it's an appropriate name. just making sure." jason waved his spare hand at his head. "helmet makes me hear things sometimes."

jordan opened his mouth, but his sister plowed right over whatever he was going to say, pulling on jason's hand again. "cat, meet... what's your name?"

"red hood."

"you can't be red hood!" she whirled around, indignantly putting her hands on her hips. "there's already a red hood in gotham. besides, you're not even wearing a hood, so it doesn't fit anyway."

jason turned his head to jordan, who was smiling- a good sign, but probably a bad omen for whatever he was about to say. "she's right, man. it's not a hood."

"tough crowd," jason muttered. "uh... then you can call me, uh-"

"bucket!" jasmine suggested happily, tapping his helmet. "because this looks like a bucket."

if there was one thing vigilantism had taught him, it was that sometimes you actually do need to pick your battles. this...

this was not worth fighting.

"sure, fine, whatever. hi, cat, i'm red bucket." he turned away from the kids- both of whom looked entirely too happy about the whole 'bucket' thing, he thought- and crouched down to finally look at the cat.

it did look a little sick, actually.

it was gray, and thin, and-

and now it was headbutting his knee like it was trying to push him over.

"cat likes you!" jazz cheered.

"sure does," jordan said pointedly. "isn't that interesting?"

jason opened his mouth, but his snarky comment died in his throat when the cat settled down right in front of him and blinked slowly up at him with a sweet tilt to its head.

...shit.

just- shit.

he sighed, standing up and looking back to jordan and his stupid, entirely-too-pleased-with-himself grin. "so, jazz," jason grumbled reluctantly, "where does cat live?"

[sohotthateveryonedied]

Hiii!! I really love your tumblr posts and I'm pretty new to the Batfam (meaning I have only read fics and textposts about them, no comics) and I wanted to ask about the year Bruce/Batman gets "lost in time". I know general things of what the kids have been doing–Dick became batman and fired Tim from robin, giving it to Damian, everyone thinking Tim was crazy for believing Bruce was alive, (don't really know what Jason was up to though, was he still murderous towards Tim? Does the pit still affect him? Also I have no idea about Cass and Duke, were they introduced at this point??) Anyways, my real question was why was Bruce lost in time, what villain put him there? And how did he get out? And how long was he "dead"? Was Bruce in another reality or like just asleep the whole time? Oh! And how soon did this happen after Damian got introduced to the family–a couple months?

I'm so sorry this is so long, but I hope you answer and thank you!!

(I’m going to try and cover all my bases here by going into how exactly Bruce “died,” what went down during the Battle For the Cowl, what the Batkids did while Bruce was gone, and how Bruce came back. Hopefully it all makes sense?? We’ll see how it goes lmao.)

Part 1 - What Happened to Bruce:

So there was this event called Final Crisis (which I won’t go completely into since it would make this post a million times longer than it already is), but the bottom line is that Darkseid wants to overthrow reality and release his Anti-Life Equation, which would overthrow the whole planet and turn everyone into slaves. (If you’re interested in knowing more about the storyline, here’s a Reddit thread that explains it WAY better than I could.) 

What I CAN tell you is that during his final confrontation with Darkseid, Bruce is hit by an Omega Beam and turned into a burnt chicken nugget killed. Poor guy.

Final Crisis #6

Clark and Diana bring the body back to the Batcave and break the news to the Batfamily. Batman #687 covers a good portion of the aftermath such as Bruce’s funeral, the Batfamily grieving, and Dick coming to terms with his new responsibility of becoming Batman.

Batman #687

Part 2 - Battle For the Cowl: 

Musical chairs time, fellas! After word gets out that Batman is gone, Gotham erupts into chaos. Dick doesn’t want to take over the mantle, Tim needs Dick to take over the mantle, and Jason says “fuck it” and takes over the mantle himself because somebody around here has to. He becomes this murderous psychopathic Batman and starts taking out criminals with deadly force because someone’s gotta do the job, so it might as well be him.

Batman: Battle For the Cowl #1

(Okay honestly, this series had some pretty bad characterization overall, which sucks since it’s such an important storyline. Jason is portrayed as this violent psychopath, which...okay, he was kind of insane after the Pit and all, but not to this degree. Personally, I choose to owe the bad characterization to Bruce’s death because as much as Jason resents Bruce for all he’s done, he does still love him and losing him would be devastating, which would exacerbate his already fragile mental health. As for Damian, this happens roughly three years after his first appearance, so we can assume it’s been a few months since he first joined the family. He’s still relatively new at this point, so nobody knows how to write him yet. He ends up being depicted as if his main two personality traits are Bratty and Assassin-Child and that’s it. It’s all just a mess.)

Anyway, Tim tells Dick to become Batman and stop Jason’s reign of terror. Dick says no, so Tim follows Jason’s lead by saying “fuck it” and putting on the cowl himself. He goes to confront Jason, which ends in Jason beating the crap out of him (again) and leaving him for dead after Tim declines his offer to become Jason’s Robin. Dick goes to save Tim and ends up fighting Jason. 

Battle For the Cowl #3

Dick wins, Jason disappears, Tim is fine, and Dick finally gets his head out of his ass and becomes Batman. 

Part 3 - What Happens to Each Batkid While Bruce is “Dead”?:

Dick: 

As I said, Dick becomes the new Batman a month after Bruce’s death. He’s got big shoes to fill, and it takes some time for him to get used to his new role. He and Damian end up flipping around the classic Batman and Robin dynamic, with Batman now as the fun counterpart to Robin’s edginess. Dick, Damian, and Alfred relocate to the penthouse above the Wayne Foundation building, operating out of a secret Bat-Bunker in the basement.

Batman #688

Jason: 

After Battle For the Cowl, Jason is still batshit insane and determined to make Dick’s already stressful life even harder by becoming a supervillain with an ugly costume and an even uglier hairstyle. (I know it’s just because the artist sucked, but still. Jason is horrifying to look at during this time.) He mostly just gets on Dick’s nerves by running around Gotham with his new sidekick Scarlet and killing criminals as Batman and Robin wannabes. Eventually, Dick has Jason committed to Arkham Asylum and he hangs out there until Bruce returns.

Batman and Robin (2009) #5

Tim: 

Tim...doesn’t do great after Bruce’s death, mentally. Dick makes Damian Robin, his reasoning being that Robin is more of a sidekick and he sees Tim as his equal. By making Damian Robin, Dick hopes that it will give him the stability he needs to keep him from straying back toward the “bad” side. (It’s the right move ultimately, although his execution was pretty messed up since he didn’t discuss it with Tim beforehand, but he’s allowed to make mistakes. Dick’s father just died and now he’s in charge of picking up the pieces of their broken family. It’s a lot to handle.) 

Long story short, Tim has a breakdown, realizes that Bruce is alive, dons the Red Robin identity, and cuts ties with his family to travel the world in search of proof. It’s a rough time. 

Red Robin #1

Damian: 

Our little guy becomes Robin! So proud of him! As I explained earlier, Dick makes Damian his Robin with the assumption that it will keep him out of trouble, and he’s right on that account. He mentors Damian, teaching him how to channel his violent instincts into something productive, and it works! Slowly but surely, Damian makes the transition from bratty assassin to actual hero!

Batman and Robin (2009) #22

Cass:

Duke sadly was not introduced at this point in time, so he missed out on all the pandemonium. Cass, however, has been Batgirl for years by now, but she got kind of pushed aside by the writers after Bruce’s death. Bruce disappears shortly after adopting Cass, but once he was “dead,” the writers sort of moved Cass around for a while, not quite knowing what to do with her. First she was with the Outsiders. Then they got disbanded and Cass tried forming a new network of heroes to take over for Batman if needed. Then she helped out in said network during Battle for the Cowl, taking care of a newly ravaged Gotham. Then Cass gave the Batgirl mantle to Stephanie Brown after she became disillusioned with the role, thanks to the loss of her father and mentor. Then Cass picked up and moved to Hong Kong to “follow Bruce’s plans” by continuing whatever work he had set up for her there. It was all very vague and confusing, and Cass more or less got swept under the rug during this time. Thanks, writers.

Batgirl (2009) #1

Part 4 - How Bruce Came Back: 

When the Blackest Night storyline happens, the Justice League realizes that the corpse buried under Bruce’s grave is apparently not the real one and that he’s actually alive out there somewhere! How wild is that! This is further proven by Dick after he places Bruce’s body in a Lazarus Pit to revive, which has the same result because it’s very clearly Not Bruce and they should have listened to Tim from the start.

Batman and Robin (2009) #9

Anyway, what actually happened is that the Omega Beams that Darkseid shot at Bruce didn’t kill him, but rather blasted him back through time to the prehistoric era with his memories wiped. The Omega Energy inside of Bruce ends up catapulting him through various time periods, which is all part of Darkseid’s plan. With each time-hop, Bruce builds up more Omega Energy in his body which, when he gets back to his original time period, will be unleashed and destroy everything.

Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #5

It’s been a little under two years since Final Crisis, though in-universe it’s uncertain exactly how long Bruce has been “dead.” We can assume it’s been a year, give or take. The way he comes back is too scientific and complicated for me to understand, so uhhhh the bottom line is that Tim and a few Leaguers save Bruce at the Vanishing Point and the day is saved! Hooray! 

Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne #6

(If you want to read about how it actually goes down, then I seriously recommend reading Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne. It’s only six issues, so it’s a quick read and it explains the situation far better than I ever could.)

Bruce eventually reunites with his family after spying on them for a period of time as Insider to see what has changed in his absence:

Bruce Wayne: The Road Home

After that, things quickly settle back into their new normal. Dick and Damian stay on as Batman and Robin. Bruce goes back to being Batman as well, with him handling Batman Incorporated business and Dick continuing as Gotham’s defender. Tim keeps the Red Robin outfit, Steph stays on as Batgirl, and Cass becomes Black Bat. Jason stays in Arkham for a while before filing an appeal to be moved to a regular prison. He kills 82 inmates in less than a week and gets transferred back to Arkham, which he promptly escapes from. It’s a ride, I tell ya.

Aaaaand that’s about it! I hope this answered all of your questions!

[zahri-melitor]

Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive.

Well, THAT was certainly an event. It’s odd. Part of it felt like it was dragging in places, but there was also a bunch of standout issues.

What worked for me? It rustled up a bunch of tensions inside the Bat family. It’s the first event since No Man’s Land that has Cass as a central part of the inner circle. It also spent some time balancing inner and outer circle concerns and concealing identities (though this wasn’t 100% effective - there were a couple of occasions you could completely read the situation as ‘Dinah knows’). People talked to each other (big proponent of this!).

We had some interesting team ups (Dick and Cass staging the break in together was the best of these; they were showing off very different detective skills of which both were needed).

It was also a MESSY event. It sort of slopped all over most of 2002, but there were essential parts that weren’t in listed books (why is Batman #604 not listed as part of the event? The final page is Bruce having his realisation “I am Bruce Wayne”!) and listed books that spent half the story continuing their own plot lines. (Also I didn’t care about the contaminated drugs storyline sorry)

Sasha Bordeaux’s sections were good but completely divorced from anything else happening. ‘Tec #775 was very necessary, though I’m going to chalk parts of it up to “Bruce is very good at lying/performing emotions in final moments” rather than his actual emotions.

Overall standout was Gotham Knights #26, due to it being the reactions of all those in the know about “did Bruce do it?”. Robin #99’s follow up was not quite as good but solid, as well as being hilarious in that anyone felt J. Devlin Davenport needed serious investigation as the culprit.

I also really loved Batgirl #29 and the crime reenactment. Just really clever, with specific payoffs once you know the solution to the mystery.

Batman #600 was also extremely cathartic as we all needed to yell at Bruce for being an idiot for the past, oh, year of comics since Officer Down. He’d totally been letting the rest of the family carry the burden since then and sulking on his own (Three events in a ROW where the investigation has been a Babs-Dick co-led investigation, Bruce. It’s like you’re not essential around here).

This was definitely an event that rewarded knowing all the idiots (affectionate) involved well. I would not recommend this as a starter storyline; while you get a lot of characterisation time about how various people feel about Bruce, it’s also got a lot of wider universe moving parts AND is hard to follow clearly (even in trades, from what I’ve read).

Also the three way Cain v Deadshot v Batman fight scene was epic in all the best ways for three highly trained men who have overlapping skillsets and EXTREMELY different priorities.

I do love the payoff that the only reason all this went down like it did was because the worst possible person was hired to do the frame job, and so the whole plot was the collision of two VERY different sets of priorities. Change one aspect (the original goal; who was hired; Bruce being the target) and it would have fallen out SO differently.

(Also I could write an epic about how Cass and David Cain’s communication and expression of love/family to each other is physical violence, but ah, I’m just going to happily sigh over ANOTHER scene where Cass just destroys her father and he lies there in defeat proud of her. It fucks me up inside every time)

[dailycass-cain]

The 5G Plan Pertaining to Cassandra Cain

I was reading Bleeding Cool’s “5G” (Five Generations) six-chapter columns on the original plan for the event. Pertaining to the Bat-Family was fascinating... 

So the first chapter dealt with the Batman side of things of what originally what co-publisher Dan DiDio wanted from James Tynion IV when he came onboard to write the Batman ongoing.

The curious things that gets me is the way the phrasing is structured. So at the time period early 2020, we had Batman: Pennyworth #1 (which was the fallout) written by Tynion and Pete Tomasi:

This is probably the closest we got to the 5G plan seen in plain sight. We see “the cracks” mentioned above forming between Bruce, “Ric”, Jason, Damian, and Babs with Alfred’s passing (Cass was making sure Gotham was safe for the night without them along with the others who didn’t mourn). 

Pertaining to Cass though got me thinking about Batman & the Outsiders (by Bryan Edward Hill and mostly Dexter Soy) of that time period. Shiva was clearly pinning for Duke and Cass to be students under her and strike out on their own (though in this issue (#13) the art was by Gleb Melnikov.

It’s got me thinking. 

We know “originally” Cass (and Steph) weren’t going to become Batgirls in “Batman: Joker War”. It was all last minute add-ons. As we know when artist for Batman ongoing (at that time) Jorge Jiménez posted his original pencils for #100:

So it’s got me thinking. I wonder if Cass and Duke at the end of B&O instead chose to go with Shiva? I mean if the story was going to be told as such if Cass found out she be TICKED Bruce disrespecting the bat-symbol as such (even if DC never allowed her). 

Though, as usual with DC it just feels like a “blur” what would become of Cass in 5G. I mean just look at her “history” in the revealed established DC for it (again revealed via Bleeding Cool):

So let’s focus on the Cass portion:

The curious thing about this timeline is Cass is Batgirl from Years 7 to Year 11 (or 12) probably. It’s a bit of a blur as Year 12 is when Babs becomes Batgirl again:

Though if you’re noticing SOMEONE is left out being Batgirl during this period, Stephanie Brown. Yeah, DC was going to sweep her time period of Batgirl under the rug (but keep her time as Robin). 

Coincidentally, we see this in February 2020 with the Robin 80th Anniversary #1 special which has a Steph profile (and story). But it’s noticeable because SOMETHING is left out of it in the profile:

So what becomes of Cass in this 5G event? That is the rub. 

Chapter Five suggests this:

I doubt Cass would be involved given this is DiDio-run DC at this point and he sure LOVED to bury the character. We sure as heck know what 5G wanted to do with Damian.

But we know what truly happens. Dan DiDio gets the ax later that month (ironically of the C2E2 convention weekend).Cass/Steph instead become Batgirls again in Batman: Joker War (we get that revelation in June as Jiménez revealed he drew the Batman #100 page of Cass as Orphan in May):

That and we got another funeral for Alfred in #100 with the “whole family” at that time period (which had Cass in the background this time actively mourning the loss). 

Not to mention probably the best push the character has gotten since Z(at least I feel)-- Batgirl Vol. 1 ongoing was running.

This whole thing is a puzzle and a mystery pertaining to Cass (akin to some of the other things I’ve tried digging for in the past). One I always love to figuring out the missing pieces and getting answers.

[dilfdoctordoom]

🔥 Babs Gordon :>

I think all of my Babs opinions are controversial so let's just go under the cut for a moment

We are absolutely at the point where support of certain titles is a massive indication of, at the very least, passive ableism and I don't think fandom has the right to be mad at disabled fans for being pissed about that. This is about Nightwing but it's also about every fucking Batgirl book we've had since the New 52 started

The way Young Justice adapted her story was shit. I understand wanting to give Babs more agency -- but we know there are ways to do that without sacrificing the character of an Asian woman

Actually, on stories that give Babs agency in becoming disabled -- I don't like it. Now I know that sounds bad, but let me explain: Babs lack of agency is part of her origin story as Oracle. And I think that the Oracle Code dealt with this the best, because Babs... isn't given much agency in how she became disabled, but it isn't the shitshow of TKJ. Like, IDK how to explain to able-bodied people that most of the time, disabled people don't have agency in how they become disabled... and that such a big part of Oracle was Barbara reclaiming her agency. Casting that aside means reevaluating what Oracle is and no writer has ever actually done that

I'm not excited for the Batgirl movie. I think it'll be a Batgirl: Year One adaptation, which is great! Year One is probably the best Babs Batgirl story, but... Officer Barbara Gordon. Racist directors. It being a Babs Batgirl movie, when it could've been about Cass instead (look, I don't like her BOP characterization, so let's give her a movie where she has an accurate personality/backstory/etc)

I think one of the worst 'fanon' aspect of Barbara Gordon is this steadfast belief that the Joker shot her because she was Batgirl/she was Batgirl at the time of TKJ. Like... I think the fact that Babs decided to stop being Batgirl is infinitely more compelling. It also makes her one of the most interesting Batfamily members -- because she gave it up. She gave it up and she didn't need a tragedy to do that and god, I wish people'd remember that

Ted Kord is probably one of her better love interests and thanks to modern comics, I genuinely prefer him to Dick Grayson

Babs is kind of a bitch and I think that should stay! It's a flaw that makes her an interesting, dynamic character

And continuing from that! People need to remember that Babs was never a perfect mentor for Cass or Steph or even Charlie. Barbara is a very flawed person and so are all those characters and seeing how their flaws mix together and contradict each other and how their strengths combine to make those duos significantly better and more interesting to read

Dick/Babs did more harm than good to both characters and has actually done irreparable damage to them (and Kory)

Batgirl should always be a part of Babs story... provided they keep it so that she quit before TKJ. Actually should stay either way. Like how Dick should always be Robin before Nightwing, Babs should always be Batgirl before Oracle. And neither should ever return to those roles.

If a competent writer took a stab at it, I think I would enjoy LukeBabs? Hm especially with Jace I think there's something there for them, in how they fit with their families, expectations, the hero life AND HOW IT IMPACTED THEIR FAMILY, like genuinely... these two are a duo with endless potential and it makes me kinda mad that we only got to see them together in Burnside (AKA Babs has no character time)

I'm not excited for Batgirls at all, even if I exclude the ableism and the ongoing character assassination of Cass and Steph. I just think there's this push to make the mantle of Batgirl more important to Babs than it actually is. That's not to say it's not important to her -- it certainly is -- but recent comics have kind of pushed this idea that it's the most important thing to her, rather than something from her past that she's cherished and moved past. I also think that this book would've been somewhat tolerable if it actually explored what Batgirl meant to all three characters -- and had it end with them all leaving the mantle behind. Maybe handing it over to Tiffany Fox/Nell Little?

Nissa and Babs had a really fun, underrated dynamic and honestly, it feels more like what fanon thinks Babs and Steph were like

Acting like Babs has more 'power' as Batgirl than she ever did as Oracle is just so blatantly incorrect and one of the most infuriating things to read

The Burnside design. It's kinda ugly. I'm sorry but it is like Babs... Babs what trashcan did you fish that out of oh my god just steal Bruce's credit card and fix this mess

Within the next ten years, we are going to get some form of media where Barbara is Damian Wayne's love interest. Will not elaborate.

Savannah Welch is one of the best comic book casting decisions ever and I actually hope we get to see her again, hopefully as Oracle

[takaraphoenix]

So I finished the original run of Bombshells and since I enjoyed this series a whole lot, I figured I’d give a kind of review before diving into Bombshells United! Obviously this is going to be full of spoilers.

Things I LOVED:

The ART! The art is so gorgeous in this comic!!

The costumes. These 30s/40s era costumes look so amazing, it’s such a visually beautiful comic, I mean holy shit!

Though the “we gotta go back to WWII to punch Nazis!” will be on list 2, I gotta hand it to this one that at least they actually center Jewish characters in this narrative. Kate Kane. Felicity Smoak being introduced as a Batgirl here. Mary as Shazam as an explicitely Jewish character. Putting a Jewish narrative onto this instead of just “Goyim American goes to punch Nazis to make white Americans feel good about themselves”. Seriously, this is a much more enjoyable take on this overdone Hollywood trope than the majority of others

A nearly exclusively female-led comic series! It’s so refreshing to see them front and center and to see many women front and center, at that, because even female-led properties usually have more men in them than women, so this team-up of famous female characters is amazing

The AMOUNT of wlw representation in this comic! There are so many wlw ships canon in this series, seriously if you want to see super-ladies loving ladies, you would be a fool to miss out on this comic!

Harley/Ivy is so adorable and amazing in this, it is definitely one of my favorite HarlIvy versions

Hawkgirl/Vixen? That’s not a ship I knew I needed in my life??

CONSTANTINE/ZATANNA!!! They’re one of my favorite DC m/f ships and they are not just canon here, they are so soft and they adopt Raven, that is an amazing family

I actually appreciate Steve Trevor’s arc of PTSD struggle and healing. Usually his war experiences are kind of... brushed aside after Diana is introduced to instead focus on her and though I love that most characters are women, I like that he, as one of the few men, actually got an arc and focus and not brushed aside

Kara and Courtney as sisters? Supergirl and Stargirl were so good together? I loved that so much?? Where can I get more of this?

MERA. MERA IS AMAZING!!! I’ve always ever only met her as “Arthur’s wife”, seriously most comics that featured her just shorthanded her as The GirlfriendTM and she did nothing more than be Arthur’s girlfriend. To see her as a powerful hero and queen and to have story focus on her is so great and I now love her greatly!

John Constantine can turn into a bunny in this. It’s silly but oh my gods he is a cute lil smoking bun-bun and I love him so much

Things I HATED:

Yet another “we gotta go back to WWII to go to Nazi Germany and punch Nazis!” narrative. Trying to cut the lengthy rant I have about this trope very short; it always seems incredibly tasteless to me considering this actually happened and real people died and suffered, but let’s play pretend where you, the American, are the great hero who saves them. Never mind how these power-hero-fantasies are never set in the US to deal with one of their own awful atrocities, they always gotta go somewhere else and play savior where someone else is The Bad Guy that they can punch. And this one, in particular, is such an overused American power-hero-fantasy

Vixen is so whitewashed like she is so whitewashed. Sure, I’m sure there are lighter skinned African people too. But this is not a real person, this is a fictional character and they made a choice when taking their African born heroine and making her so incredibly light-skinned. Even just compared to other iterations of Mari McCabe, she is incredibly light-skinned, and it really rubs me the wrong way because it sure is a choice

Lois/Kara is weird? In this comic it really just feels like “we make many wlw, we give Lois a Super! But a wlw Super!!!” when there is just zero build-up. They meet and go heart-eyes, when Maggie/Lois had much much more build-up (they have spent two years raising the Batgirls together??). Never mind the choice to make Lois fall for Kara and two pages later introduce Superman, to both Kara and Lois. Clark doesn’t ever get to be with someone else in a universe where Lois is as much as alive, they always gotta kill her off to justify why Clark would ever love another woman, but Lois can deadass just meet Kara and Clark the same moment and go “nah, this time I’ll take the blonde”, that’s so dumb

As a lover of Selina Kyle, it absolutely kills me to see Selina wear a Nazi arm band and switch sides left and right to the point that I don’t really know where her loyalty lies. Also, her kissing Kate felt, much like Lois/Kara, like they’re just replacing a Bat with a Bat

The ending I hate the ending I hate the ending so much. The “hero doesn’t kill uwu” thing is already really tired but “hero doesn’t kill uwu so instead we put the villain into a vague coma they absolutely will break out of and to put her into this coma three innocent people have to die”, I’m sorry but no, even one sacrifice would have been too much, but to go “we’ll actually kill three innocent people! to save this evil Überlord” is ridiculous - and it is made much more ridiculous by being Kara’s mom, Kara’s dad and the father of Kara’s sister, said sister being the only character in the entire series to die up to that point. It’s really “let’s hurt Kara” time, huh? And said sister also died in a heroic sacrifice. I’m sorry but how does this narrative teach that killing is bad and you are a good person for not killing because fucking kill that villain so your parents can live??? Your own parents? It’s not even just saving random strangers - and I’d argue that any hero should rather kill the villain than let an innocent die - but to make it your own entire family? What the fuck?