#i wanted this game to get into GANON'S side of the story

[helmarok]

genuinely so angry about this. you gave us a red-maned man with a big ol nose in the botw tapestry only for it to just have been another little white boy? no ganon? no hero ganon? like i was really hoping he'd have been the chosen hero but demise's curse and all of his previous reincarnation history has doomed him into being seen as evil by the kingdom he saved, and his portrayal as a villain in TOTK would have been his rage after what the people he loved did to him. that would have made a very good story about fate and the harm hatred can do but no that isn't what we're getting. did i expect nintendo to go the classic "ganon is evil!" route? yes. am i happy that they did after 30+ years of "ganon is evil!" formula? no of fucking course. i want more insight on him as a person and his culture. i want more lore on how he feels as a gerudo male and how he feels being born into a curse or being born as someone history has always scorned. but we'll never get it and that kills me

[atlas7seo]

Hear me out: A Zelda Game where Link pulls the Master Sword and tells no one. And when I mean no one, I mean no one. So imagine this Link comes home with a funky sword wrapped in fabric, his family asks "what's that?" And he just shrugs. Like we can have actual family dynamics like Wind Waker. GUYS REAL PARENTS. Meanwhile everyone in the castle is freaking the f out because the master sword is gone. Did Ganon take it?! How did he manage to?! IT WAS SO WELL GUARDED!

And Link just kinda doesn't want to deal with the pomp and grand displays he knows he'll have to suffer through so he just kind of tells no one, but he's still the hero at heart and he knows he has to beat Ganon eventually so he kind of just goes around fixing random problems the entire game while waiting for Ganon to show up. And he gets like fun equipment from it. So a kid he helped find his parents gifts him a slingshot. A random soldier lends him a shield. The Zora he helped with directions gives him a helmet to breathe underwater. Stuff like that. And with more quests he unlocks more places where he can just fix more problems.

Like we can have the standard combat stuff and dungeons but he could also solve like mysteries or stuff all while trying to avoid Zelda and the royal family. So a game that's entirely a stealth mystery level. And along the way these random side quests he does actually ends up culminating in beating Ganondorf. Like these random gifts are useful tools. I know botw you can beat up Ganon with a mop and I feel like doing it again would be very funny. Like some nice lady just gave you a mop to clean her floors and she says to keep it and Link is just like "thanks ig but idk what I'll do with it," and proceeds to wack Ganon with it.

And not all the quests are required and there could be gimmicks like in Majora's Mask where two tasks happen at the same time so you can do one or the other so everyone will have a distinctly different playthrough. We could also have a day night cycle where different quests happen at night or in the day.

Also if people wanted we could bring back Sheik. Link doesn't know Sheik is Zelda and it'd be funny if Zelda didn't know Link was...Link ig and at the end it's like this really funny like "WAIT A MINUTE YOURE THE PRINCESS/HERO?" moment. Like obviously the audience will know but the dramatic irony yall. I live for dramatic irony.

I just want more story and interactions yall. I really enjoyed the concept where people knew Link was the hero already in BOTW so I think it'd be interesting to watch more heroes who just already knew before the critical incident. Most of the time Link is kind of just thrown into the plot and he trips into becoming the hero.

[scesketch]

My concept for a cozy Legend of Zelda game (details below)

I love Zelda games so so much, from Twilight Princess to Breath of the Wild, but here’s the thing: they always end before I can properly enjoy the comforts of Hyrule! I want to farm pumpkins and build a house and do side quests while not having to fight off bokoblins every thirty seconds. (I am bad at the fight things…)

So I propose a Zelda cozy game! Set after a traditional Ganon fight or apocalypse or what have you, this Link and Zelda actually get to live in a peaceful Hyrule. You still play as Link (or perhaps in a co op mode you could play Link and Zelda) but you get to build your home, farm crops and sell them, do fun side quests, and explore to your heart’s content. And maybe—just maybe—you can pet the dogs. Maybe even adopt some. 👀

And who knows? Maybe there’s companions who helped you in the battle who would love a visit from their friend. Or perhaps Zelda has work to do rebuilding and reconnecting the people of Hyrule, and Link is needed as her protector. There’s plenty of story available and plenty of good character relationships to build. But in between those beats, you can go home to your cottage, make a pot of pumpkin soup, and curl up in bed with your puppy. Sounds ideal, right?

Anyway, I’m just a little mad we don’t get to hang out in post-Calamity Hyrule in Breath of the Wild… So I came up with this to compensate. Thoughts?

[lucky-clover-gazette]

one thing i love about totk’s story is the sense of RESPECT the world has for link. like compared to botw, where he’s this kind of fabled failure of a hero (similar to zelda) who everyone thinks is dead, whose ultimate enemy (clammy ganon) is a beast devoid of personality who *can’t* feel any type of way about him.

but in totk, he is so respected and known for what he has done for the world in the past five years. even when npcs don’t recognize him AS himself, they speak of him highly. yiga clan members hate him so personally and use his actual name. they have fanart of him on the walls. zelda speaks of him SO highly in the past, convincing the sages who are total strangers to tell their descendants to assist him. the sages, in turn, assist him without question, especially the ones who were already his friends. zelda convinces rauru to put his absolute faith in link, and that’s how we get the most badass cutscene in the game: rauru imprisoning ganondorf.

because holy shit, that cutscene. the music is what elevates it, but what’s already there is so good. re: the music, rauru’s theme flowing into link’s triumphant theme during his speech about link beating ganondorf, then flowing back into the resigned resolution his own. goddamn. and then the lingering hyrule castle/gdorf theme fading as he’s imprisoned. goddamn.

and ganondorf (here’s the big point of the post) actually takes link seriously. like the whole “i look forward to meeting him” was partially aloof on his part, but this man was DETERMINED to insult link the second he woke up after this confrontation. he is pissed that people respect link and think he’s capable of stopping him. it feels so personal on his side of things, unlike even windwaker, where ganondorf had a lot of personal stakes and was a complex character, but saw link and zelda more as pawns then adversaries. and in oot he’s straight up just like “uh who’s this kid,” and in twilight princess link doesn’t even know ganondorf is the real villain until the end of the game.

ganondorf meets link in the opening of the game and takes his arm, his sense of normalcy, and best friend away from him. the entire game is link learning how the hell this happened in the past, seeing ganondorf’s arrogant personality and pure contempt for everything he stands for, and wanting very badly to not only save the world he loves, but also his best friend, who sacrificed herself so he may stop ganondorf.

what i’m saying is, that final confrontation feels SO earned. and it’s incredible—the way ganondorf taunts link during the fight, takes cheap shots at his arm, and then essentially kills his own personhood out of a refusal to admit defeat.

there were disappointing things about ganondorf in totk, but this was not one of them. both his and rauru’s characters entirely justified themselves over the course of the story. a month or so out, i am still so pleased with this game.

[smilesrobotlover]

Ok that’s it. I’m just gonna scream about echoes of wisdom:

First off, this game is amazing. Like I’m so impressed with it and had a blast with it. I’m very impressed with how fun the gameplay was. I was nervous that it wasn’t gonna be fun, but no it was actually tons of fun! It’s not perfect ofc. I wish you didn’t have to sit and scroll through hundreds of echoes, I wish they separated monsters and objects to make each one easier to grab, and the amount of times I pressed the sword button instead of the echo button was insane. Fighting enemies is also a pain since it takes so long, and I wished I could just directly fight them, and it’s super easy to soft lock yourself as well. But all those negatives don’t outweigh the positives, because regardless of those flaws, it was still VERY fun to play through. Once you get powerful monsters, fighting is kinda fun to watch. I loved placing like, 7 fire octos against one ice octo and just watch it get destroyed. I loved setting things on fire, I loved climbing on trees, and overall I just, loved finding ways to solve puzzles. Thinking outside the box was a lot of fun in this game. Now, in some places like the Faron temple, it wasn’t fun BUT, still. I loved it

And the story, omg. This is the first Zelda game that I’ve played since becoming a fan that has a new link and Zelda in a new Hyrule, and it was so refreshing to see! I’ve seen the same ones for years now since joining the fandom and I love seeing new ones! I love how Zelda doesn’t know Link at all, that he’s just some swordsman who saved her. I just love what they did with Link in general. He wasn’t reduced to a damsel in distress, he had his own adventure, we just didn’t see it. He was competent and was fighting In the rift before Null captured him. Fighting along side him was SO fun and the final dungeon was very unique and fun to go through. I also loved fighting as him in the very beginning. They gave him an interesting backstory and I almost wish we got to see his adventure! But oh well, this game is about Zelda anyways :)

And Zelda is fun too, I love all the characters that know her. They were all so competent and didn’t actually sit around like a bunch of idiots. I wish Zelda wasn’t a silent protagonist though, but idk how else they would’ve done it. Oh well.

And I didn’t like Tri in the beginning but they really grew on me towards the end. They were very bland but some personality came out as we progressed further into the story, and I laughed out loud at some of the things they said lol.

But let me talk about my fav part of the game: Null.

I cant tell you how much I love the concept of Null. The idea of some creature that is the embodiment of nothingness that has been there since before the creation of the world is SO FREAKING COOL. It’s nice having a story where Ganon isn’t the big bad, it’s this ancient being that is powerful and very dangerous. Far more dangerous than Demise. And it doesn’t contradict the established lore? Like this makes a lot of sense that Null was imprisoned in the world, but was creating rifts because they wanted to go back to nothingness. It’s spooky to think that they were there the whole time, just trying to escape.

Though it does make me wonder about the timeline. My guess is that this game takes place before or after botw/totk with hebra mountain existing and things generally being in the same spot (except death mountain, but volcanoes move anyways right?). And no one knows what the Triforce actually is, which is also very interesting. It’s an ancient power that’s not well known which is very cool, and I LOVED seeing it again! Having them discover the primal energy being the Triforce was so freaking cool, and the legend of the princess (or priestess) and the hero defeating evil was cool, but it does make me wonder where it is in time.

But yeah, all in all, I loved this game. It was incredible and so much fun with amazing characters and great lore that expanded on the universe. Very very neat.

But I’m giving it a 2/10 cuz Linebeck wasn’t in it

[vampire-wizard-solidarity]

i think the way totk references skyward sword only highlights the problems with totk and gets a little insulting at times.

this is mostly about ganondorf’s demon king form being highly reminiscent of demise. i get that it makes sense, since ganon’s power most likely comes from demise’s curse, so when it’s amplified it visually references that. that’s neat, and not an inherently bad idea, even a good one in some aspects.

however, all it does for me is highlight just how much of a non character ganondorf is. demise is, to an extent, also a non character: he isn’t deep nor extensively fleshed out, but the thing is, not all characters have to be. and him, he works. most of the game is spent with ghirahim, his much more expressive and motivated sidekick. he’s fun, intimidating when he has to be, and balances being silly and being an actual threat well. demise is the kicker, the final punch, when ghirahim spent the entire game building him up, we finally get to see him, he’s intimidating, he’s serious in contrast to ghirahim, he immediately shuts the villain we spent most of the game fighting up, and reduces him to an object to be used to fulfil his own goals. his boss fight is cool, and so is he.

demise is a god of destruction, he doesn’t have a motivation beyond the fact that he is a representation and wields power over evil. and that’s the point. skyward sword’s themes largely center humanity vs inhumanity, link spends a large portion of the game running around fulfilling a plan he doesn’t fully understand, being roped into this ordeal before he even finds out about it, not really comprehending what’s happening or why for a long time. so, it’s only natural the final force he has to face is an equally incomprehensible threat, and he defeats it not because he comprehends it more now, or understands the ancient conflict between gods or any of that. he does it because he wants to protect someone he loves, he does it because he forms a genuine bond with the robotic, originally emotionless guide who was made only for the purpose of aiding him in this godly plan. humanity triumphs over godhood. humanity triumphs over inhumanity.

in totk, however? there really isn’t much difference between ganondorf before and after he becomes the demon king. he has no particular motivation before or after, he is a king who wants to rule over hyrule with evil, and then he becomes a more powerful king who wants to rule over hyrule with evil. he looks more like the god of destruction now, but that signifies nothing other than he is more powerful now. ganon has always been associated with power, and the way power corrupts has always been a fitting theme for him. he could’ve had development throughout the game, and him becoming more like the literal godly representation of evil could’ve signified that development. maybe he was a king with an actual motivation, an actual in story reason to oppose hyrule, we could’ve been shown his human side, what he actually cares for and why he does the things he does, and then we could’ve seen that side of him dissolve as he taps more into his power, becomes more like a being of destruction that destroys simply because that’s what it has power over. him taking visual cues from demise could’ve actually meant something, could’ve been a visual representation of the way his power corrupts him. instead, we get nothing. there was no reason to bring ganondorf back, because he still acts like a motivationless monster, who is evil simply because he is. all talk of this being “his game” was a lie, considering he could easily be replaced by a generically evil monster and nothing would’ve changed.

ultimately, i still wouldn’t have been happy with this story because it would still lean heavily on the orientalist narratives still alive and present in zelda, but this would’ve been at least something. the way it is, the fact that he takes visual cues from demise pisses me off because it highlights just how one dimensional his character is, it makes me feel only cynicism because it makes it clear that ganondorf was only brought back because he’s a popular and iconic character and not because he had any purpose in the story or because the writers had anything interesting to do with him.

[muchmossymess]

GUYS okay hear me out majoras mask boat boys au

I love legend of zelda I love boat boys this is like the ultimate combination of my interests you cannot understand the brainrot. Idk what to call it yet tho... majoras minecraft? Anyway prepare for an essay

OKAY so we have the Hero of Time, Etho, who stopped ganons plans before they started, and would be stuck in a child's body if not for the fact I think that'd be a lil weird for the more shippy aspects of this au that all the running through time aged his soul and his body followed suit (he's still got a young appearance, and the mask doesn't make him look older like he thinks). Same reason he has the scar over his eye (from the ganon fight); no matter how much the body may heal or rewind the mind will not forget.

Then navi (maybe bdubs?) left him, and he went with epona (maybe bdubs instead? (eponas a horse iydk)) and he sets out on a journey aka the beginning of mm:

Wandering through the woods on epona, gets jumped by skull kid. For those unaware, there is skull kid, a lonely lil sweetheart, and he wears the mask, an entity on its own. He also has two fairies, siblings tael and tatl.

So I was a little unsure about this for a while, but I think I've decided on grian for the skull kid and Jimmy for tael, grian bc watchers and Jimmy bc skull kid is not very nice to tael (bc of the mask) and like a listeners reference or smth blah blah blah

TATL. that's who's interesting. At the beginning she gets separated from her friends and becomes your companion. So naturally for this au she is our favourite joel smallishbeans. It works so well. Tatl is mean but cares, and that's joels dynamic with the bad boys and with etho, guys it's literally perfect idc what you say

I think it doesn't change much throughout like the story of the game, but just taking dialogue tatl says to link and its so perfect for a sassy joel to a "can't believe I'm dealing with this shit again" etho. Uh one thing different though; in hylian form etho doesn't have an ocarina but instead a mini marimba. Just because. I think it's cool, and for potential things later on.

Now, fairies in this au are just tiny glowing people shaped things with wings. The glow around them is their magic, and depending on emotions/energy the brightness changes (thats why they look like flying balls of light). Some fairies have the ability to make projections of themselves, more hylian sized in nature. This can be intimidation or distraction or w/e, but they cant do it for long periods of time bc its exhausting. These forms aren't physical. Just sized up light projections of their actual bodies.

So for a lot of their journey, joel is just a cute pocket sized ball of rage and sarcasm, who helps with ethos aim for fighting. Bc that's a game mechanic and also ethos like half blind. But like when joel calms down imagine him crawling into ethos hat and just dozing off. He can fit in the palm of your hand like guys it's so cute. But he is also capable of being worse than a mozzie

Oh probably a good point to put in what I imagine etho looks like. So it's typical link green (maybe a bit dampened?), weird pointy hat, short hair (white ofc), his shirt is more of a jacket with a fluffy cold weather collar, it's a bit too big for him but he knows he'll grow into it, he's all knobbly and thin (underfed a lil, boy was never taught how to care for himself beyond basic survival). His injured eye is red bc of ganon, and often gives him phantom pains. It can't be healed.

Anyway, at some point in their journey together, etho and joel learn a song that let's fairies have a larger physical form, no wings, sorta like the great fairies (who they learnt it from prolly). It isn't permanent, slowly draining ethos magic meter, the spell ends when you run out of magic. This is because I want them to actually be able to stand side by side or maybe hug, and also bc its hard to block a blow with your body when ur tennis ball sized.

Aaaaand, this ties back in with with marimba. What if ethos injured, or unconscious, and he obviously can't defend himself, so joel panics and plays the marimba in what he hopes is the right order to give himself a body. I imagine that being that small, you could not play an ocarina. And hey maybe joel carries etho away after that, and when the spell ends he has barely any light emitting from himself because he spent nearly all his magic (what he is made of) saving etho.

But this song isn't used much, because of its draining nature, and you can't really do any other magic things while it's going. So it's mostly just in the final fight (over and over) or tough moments or maybe joel wants to experience something like hoe hylians do. It's obviously inferior to how he experiences things as a fairy, of course, he's just curious thats all. He totally doesn't want etho to do it more.

Okay I think ill sorta stop here, I am NOT done, I will probably post some art I've done for this later lol, and I want help with who everyone else is (mumbo is the moon. You cannot stop me nor change my mind) with mcyts to npcs

[rawliverandgoronspice]

Okay so this has been on my mind for awhile and I wanted to get my thoughts out there. Regarding the topic of Rauru and Ganons relationship, I feel like rauru has kinda been bashed? people seem think that rauru in memory 6 (I believe) had a bit of a god complex, and that he was disrespectful. I feel as if rauru kinda had a right to act the way he did.

Rauru had wanted to become Allie’s with the gerudo. Not necessarily because he wants them to serve him but more for resources. Or more likely knowing Ganon he was attacking hyrule. The reason why I suspect this is because during the molduga incident rauru and Sonia seem to be very familiar with theses types of attacks. So it’s likely Ganon had ordered monster attacks on them before. Likely the attacks were getting to much for rauru and Sonia to handle; on top of establishing hyrule, rauru sent out messages for Ganon to join the kingdom in order to stop the attacks. Or another reasoning is that the gerudo were likely suffering. Ganon has been shown to not always prioritize his people. And knowing from past games the gerudo desert doesn’t have much resources. We can kinda see this in Totk they seem to only have hydromelon and voltfruit (I highly doubt that the gerudo had men at the time bringing them food from hyrules fields). If you’ve talked to rauru on the sky islands you’ll know that rauru is actually a very sweet and sympathetic guy, so I believe this could be a possibility.

Moving forward to raurus attitude during their meeting.Now rauru wasn’t exactly the nicest during the meeting, but I don’t really blame him. Rauru probably annoyed that ganon has been ignoring his letters and putting his people in danger. Also Ganon was very sketchy during that entire meeting and was rude in his tone.

Why did Ganon bow? Ganon and rauru are not equal, yes they are both kings but rauru has massive amounts of power and has a much larger land mass. (and zonia are kinda gods) but I don’t think the reasoning for Ganon bowing is because he less than or non equal to rauru. More like he was apologizing and giving rauru respect for the countless times he’s ignored him or tried to kill him.

More of raurus tone in the meeting Again I think he was really fed up with Ganon and rauru seems very non confrontational (he apologizes in the sky islands that the constructs attack link, and ask link not to be angry because they can’t understand) rauru likely wanted it to get into ganons mind not to attack the kingdom again because rauru had a lot of Allie’s and power and will attack Ganon if he pulls a stunt.

Ganon vs the gerudo. This part is a little off topic but, lots believe rauru is low key kinda racist towards the gerudo. But if this was true why was gerudo sage working with rauru? I don’t think that the way rauru acts is how he acts to all gerudo. The sage of lighting very obviously doesn’t like Ganon. The reasoning  could be my first point. And later on after the imprisoning war the gerudo still stuck with hyrules side.

That’s all I have for right now, sorry if it’s all jumbled up I tried to make it coherent. Anyways I appreciate you for reading this :3

-🔺

Hi, thanks for the lengthy ask!! I'm sorry for the lengthy answer this beckoned, but I think this conversation is pretty important --even beyond Zelda and this specific case. We're talking themes and tropes and framing!!!!

I will try to reply to all of this in a way that kind of threads through several layers of why people have been bashing Rauru, me included. I will try my best to explain why I dislike this character, and try to parse out why I am this miffed by Tears of the Kingdom's storyline overall.

The long story short is: I don't dislike Rauru as a person (I mean, I also would tbh), I dislike him because of what he represents.

I think the waters did muddy a little in the "discourse" recently, and it's a good thing to take a step back and re-explain where I'm coming from (me personally, not going to speak for anyone but me here).

Also, before jumping in: this is not a condamnation on anyone who enjoys this story or these characters, nothing is unproblematic, it's fine, everybody does what they want, all of the things. I like the game and I keep playing the game in spite of being harshly critical of the ideas pushed forward. Also: it's fine to digest this and come back later (or not at all) if that feels like a lot, or if some of these ideas don't immediately click. But it's also partially why I think it's important: this game is aimed at a young audience, and one who might not have all of the keys to decipher what's going on, which is why I think it's quite irresponsible (which is the charitable interpretation) on Nintendo's part.

Anyway. Too many words underneath the cut.

The Story

So, first of all, I want to say that I believe you completely and fully read the situation as Nintendo intended it to be read. This is the text of the game (aka, the story taken at face value). You picked up on every single safeguard put into place to have Rauru and Sonia act in the most justifiable way possible, and have Ganondorf, on the other hand, act as a duplicitous, power-hungry and downright insane as they could have made him. In the reality of their universe, and only taking into account what is given to us through the narrative, trusting it comes from a neutral place and isn't influenced by anything, everything you said is 100% correct.

Rauru and Sonia WERE acting in self-defense, and were even kind not to turn their incommensurable power against the invading army.

The kingdom Rauru built as a demigod IS a paradise and they WERE very generous to invite neighboring nations to bask in their wealth and its technological and natural blessings (and the results of their extensive mining and why are there killer robots everywhere if this world was such a peaceful paradise uhh let's not ponder about this too much). That Ganondorf was too prideful and envious to accept IS a sin that rests solely with him.

Rauru IS a brave hero that sacrificed himself to seal the invader that killed his beloved wife.

Every single Sage IS extraordinarily devoted to protect both Rauru's lineage and their own lands, and gleefully pass down that duty to their ancestors --all thanks to Zelda, heir of that blessed royal line who returned to the past and made them promise to fight alongside Link to seal the Evil once more.

The gerudo WERE (apparently) oppressed, as they decided to fight under Rauru's authority freely (so against their own chief??) and, also, must make amends for having put Ganondorf in this world in the first place? ( I think we are already starting to see some contradictions --were you always victims or did you start this conflict in the first place? what is your place in all of this? why don't we ever get to know?)

This IS the story of Tears of the Kingdom. A story of a great sacrifice that happened in the golden mythical past (confirmed as unquestionable truth through the archeology motif), done by benevolent godly figures of royal blood and immense power they would never abuse, giving their everything to bring Light into a broken world corrupted by the degeneracy of Evil, echoed by the devotion of nations who swore fealty to that divine being and must now renew their vow in the present to defend their lands and Hyrule at any cost. Also, the impossible and magnificient suffering of the princess, whose tears lead to a trail of truth into the very land, informs the current population about why they're fighting now; she's at once a hero of the past and a martyr in the present, completely incapable of acting on her own, carrying with her the blade that will slay the crushing and violent sway of Evil for good and bring eternal peace into the land (Evil who uses her own appearance to cause chaos and violence against her own people --the blasphemy!!). The title of the game reflects this too: the Tears of the Kingdom are hers. Zelda is the kingdom here, and her pain/the pain of that mythical past is what is centered.

Also Ganondorf IS green so it's not racist okay let's stop right here and unpack all of this mess, because BOY oh boy oh boy oh boy.

oh boy.

The History

Now comes the time to point out the obvious, but that bears being repeated: this is a fictional story. It's a story crafted by a very powerful game company set in Japan. It's a story crafted by a huge number of people, who debated for years how to best tell it, why, and what for. Every single choice made in the narrative is purposeful, has been weighted against other options, and was picked over what could have been virtually anything else. Again, I want to state that I don't know if any single person took these decisions, probably not entirely, and it's even possible Nintendo didn't realize (I doubt it heavily tbh, but I'm sure there are people in the team that didn't get it or didn't see the issue), but a certain kind of story was crafted in the end, and it's the one we got.

One word that has been tossed around a lot as far as TotK's story goes is ✨ imperialism ✨, and I want to pause and take a second to analyse exactly what we mean by that and why I think it's painfully relevant here (and, honestly, I think another word would be very very relevant here also, but it's the kind of word you keep for after you're done with your argumentation not to scare off the unconvinced audience --but, to anyone who reads and might have picked it up already, yeah.)

In our real world of Earth 2023™, we have seen quite the number of extraordinarily powerful nations becoming gradually larger, engulfing neighbors, breaking apart, and leaving the buds of new future empires behind them. Hell, there's a number of them existing right now, even if they don't call themselves empires and don't have literal emperors at their head anymore (though Japan does, and it is important here). Of course, no nation, especially nations striving for expansion, worldwide legitimacy in culture and power, and their own understanding of "greatness", would ever call themselves anything but enlightened and justified. After all, the Roman Empire brings aqueducts and infrastructure to the lands they conquer, China unifies disparaging regions struggling under constant barbaric attacks, France and Spain converts local populations of the "New World" and save their souls from eternal damnation (wow thanks guysss), the British Empire brings industrial revolution uhhh everywhere please don't ask what was the cost, Africa sure loves everybody ripping their culture and lands apart and were so super glad to receive whatever "civilization" is supposed to mean when their literal people were being pillaged away to keep on building said empires using their blood as mortar, the URSS protects neighboring nations from the Evil Capital/West, fascists want to purge the world of anything they consider impure, the US brings freedom to the world and the whole world is grateful forever!!!

Everyone always has an excuse, and everyone is always kind of semi-mandated by God (in the largest possible sense; divine responsibility would perhaps be more appropriate, it's kind of the idea that with great power comes responsibility, while defining what responsibility means and inflicting their conclusions to conquered lands to squeeze even more value out of them) to do whatever the hell they want to others, claim their lands, their bodies, their minds, their culture --and demand gratefulness on top of it all to avoid having to feel bad.

There is a large body of fictional works that are dedicated to boister the image of the Empire. Every single empire has a number of them; their goal is often to mythologize, in some form or another, the story of their expansion. It often flattens every nuance, paints the actions of the empire as the natural order of the world and its opposition as morally malignant, their leaders are charismatic, benevolent, powerful and self-sacrificial. Often, it invokes previous empires to cast the current one as inheriting a grace that was tragically lost and must be restored through war, hard work, and healthy natality --I'll dip into the forbidden comparaison but Nazi Germany loved its greek myths of Sparta and Athens (and modern day fascists still do), or the Napoleon Wars so they could retell the story of their own empire by invoking a legacy of moral diligence and ethnical greatness being restored. But the pattern is often very similar: we used to be Great, a tragic event due to both external invasion and internal corruption precipitated our golden age into chaos and degeneracy, and now we must fight off current day corruption to restore the Glory of the old times we lost --all of this under the benevolent gaze of our leaders, whose mission is a direct or indirect intervention of divinity into mortal lives. It is righteous and glorious to fight/die for the nation (and its leaders) and protect it from the uncivilized, who are inhuman and exist solely to trick us, corrupt us, attack us and assimilate/destroy us.

Are we starting to notice some similarities here :) :) :)

The Narrative

There's two conversations running in parallel here.

The first one is the least important in my opinion, even though it's the one we tend to focus on a lot as theorists/enthusiasts/enjoyers of media: is Rauru oppressing the gerudos, and does that inform Ganondorf's actions?

Honestly? Textually? Probably not.

There are arguments to be made (and that deserve to be made) about the insane power imbalance, there are a lot of suspicious aspects that deserve to be picked apart like the address and deference of Ganondorf towards Rauru, the whole mining thing that I don't see being discussed much but could be a huge part of it --there are ancient mines in the gerudo region after all; since when? what's the history here?-- the strange masks the Sages are to wear when Zelda, as a direct descendant, isn't wearing any, etc etc. Lots of other posts have been made about the million tiny red flags that litter the game, but I think that if we take the game at face value, they barely matter. I would love them to have been placed with intent (and they maybe were as a desperate attempt by an employee trying to inject grayness back in the equation and if that's the case I SEE YOU random gamedev and I love you and you did the best you could <3), but to me that's more a case of wishful fan thinking (including mine tbh) that any concrete argument that the story is secretely about Rauru being imperialist and this costing him everything. There are some hints of a more nuanced world (the Horned God, the Bargainers, that some NPCs are invested in monsters are creatures worthy of study and awe --tho almost all of them ridiculed in some form), but these demand that you go out of your way to collect them and make the connection yourself. Can this even qualify as subtext? As in: the story under the story? As much as I wish this was the case, I don't think so. We can't make the case that it's a simple story for children that isn't trying to say anything grand while also demanding people to make insane mental gymnastics on their own, without any help on the game's part, for it not to be a blatant endorsement of imperialist thinking.

(especially not the kind of game that repeats 3 different times back to back that Sidon didn't talk to Yona because he was afraid to lose her like he lost Mipha --honestly what's up with this writing I don't get it, BotW didn't act like its players' brain was this unplugged, ANYWAY)

The story is about Ganondorf being duplicitous and monstrous and destroying the beautiful kingdom of the past, and us preserving our modern day kingdom from its corrupting influence by recruiting allies and friends in that fight. We are given a plethora of situations that paint him as inhumanely cruel and chaotic, and none that breath even the suggestion of a critique towards our heroes. He's evil: we must stop him.

Now comes the second conversation, and one I think is more important: is this entire storyline built off imperialist tropes that were created to oppress and exploit marginalized populations in real life while justifying the violence inflincted upon them?

In my opinion, yes. Undeniably so.

I am not so much invested in Rauru being racist towards Ganondorf; I am invested in the real life Nintendo videogame being racist towards the idea that Ganondorf represents: the scary foreigner that will lead to the fall of civilization if we let him in.

(and perhaps this was Rauru's hubris all along: to believe he could let a scary (male) foreigner in and then trust him to remain docile.... a little too much. And then he reaped what he sowed.

checkmate liberal.

This makes an uncomfortable amount of sense and I kinda hate having made the connection tbh)

This is especially true when it's the second time around that this exact storyline is represented, and I believe it to be much more insidious this time around --because now, gerudos are our friendssss and feel great shame and personal responsibility towards that aspect of them that once rebelled. Meanwhile in OoT, a majority of them were onboard with Ganondorf as their leader and explicitely did not want to be assimilated in the kindgom (Nabooru being specifically painted as one of the exceptions). I go more in depth about all of this in this pre-TotK post about gerudo culture. We had plenty of conversations about orientalism and islamophobic representation in videogames since; it was A Thing at the time, the turn of the century was particularly egregious in that regard. But It's not 1998 anymore, and I personally believe it's pretty inexcusable to rethread that same ground beat by beat without batting an eye at any of its implications (especially since they have done better since; even Twilight Princess, who gave him very little grace overall, dared to criticize hylians through Midna, Zelda and even Zant --and Wind Waker towed the line rather beautifully between the part of him that was human and the part that was monstrous, and the tragedy of these two cancelling each other out constantly). I was expecting much, much better than what we got --I didn't even dare to imagine they would just double-down on that aspect and make a worse version of Ocarina of Time to reintroduce the character.

This is also partially why I'm so uncomfortable with the green skin situation: can you imagine how this scene would have felt like, with the single brown-skinned guy having a central role in the game kneeling in front of a white old man with a droopy mustache (which was Rauru's first iteration in the series, and the one I always keep in mind when having these conversations) and his blonde wife, and Zelda being "hmmm he's evil for sure"? And then he 100% is, with no justification or reason beyond an urge to consume the entire world --even this, which is not uninteresting, remaining completely unexplored in a 150+ hour open-world game that decided to focus on everything under the sun EXCEPT Ganondorf's motivations and his relationship to his own people? Can you imagine how obvious of a racist caricature Ganondorf would have been just by keeping his skin a normal brown (not to pretend he's not already super coded as Foreign in every possible way)? The man is intimidating, uncomfortable to be around, he's greedy and power-hungry, he's insane, he comes for our lands and our women and oppresses his own and also corrupts everything through either infiltration or literal disease. Also he's uhhh the Devil, for good measure.

As much as we can rationalize and embrace these parts of who he is as fans, there's no ignoring how icky this entire situation really is.

So, to tie everything together.

There are three readings of this game competing in my head.

The first one is: the textual interpretation. Rauru is self-sacrificial and a victim, Zelda is deeply brave and an icon of the empire's longevity and deep-rooted history, Ganondorf is utterly inhuman and must be destroyed at all costs. What the game says it is --and what it is.

The second one is: the critical interpretation. That this story sounds awfully convenient for the prosperity of the Empire (here the empire being Hyrule), paints Zelda, the current leader, in a weird fanficky way by literally sending her back to the past with her super cool ancestors and allowing a military victory in the present while also being a martyr to the cause and being much more of a symbol than a person, and nobody even bats a fucking eye in the direction that Hyrule might have been questionable in any way --everyone is so happy to be a vassal, see? Let's not unpack why the king of the zoras prefered hiding himself than facing the consequences of what would happen if Zelda really did attack him out of the blue (this plot point is insane, but its potential is too good so therefore it's illegal and immediately dropped). Let's not unpack the absolute insane amount of abuse false Zelda gets away with by virtue of acting as the princess of a sacred bloodline (but she's nice, right? because that's how you want to make a sure a ruler won't hurt you: praying they will be nice). There are enough red flags to doubt this world, its reality, the complexity of these people's inner lives. The rejection of the notion that any sort of flaw or problem could exist within the system makes it borderline dystopian in my opinion (especially when compared with BotW's Hyrule, which had problems who led to its own downfall and were the fault of nobody but their own actions as Ganon is portrayed more as a natural event than an actual, malicious person), and this is the first reason why I don't like Rauru: the entire world revolves around this goat-kangaroo-furry man's chiseled navel. Everyone is, quite literally, a faceless tool in the glorious and tragic story of his lost empire (or they're women here to become sacrificial objects serving the fights of men; or they're Ganondorf, who's a non-person and an antagonistic object lacking any interiority or humanity, and the narrative being completely uninterested in that), and only his bloodline and his vision for the future really matters. Not that Rauru thinks like this --but the game does. And so, it's hard for me not to see him as either the most narcissistic person ever if we accept him as the narrator of this story, or a flat propaganda machine built for an even greater cause (Hyrule, the Empire).

And then, the third one: that Nintendo would put out a game that is so deeply embedded in imperialist and orientalist language and tropes, so invested in its traditional and patriarchal values, so uncurious about the Other and so critical of it while refusing to look inward, is not neutral (yes even if the game is super fun and has other great qualities, I do believe this game is a monumental achievement in game/level design and in optimization/tech art while also being a trainwreck in quest and narrative design). This rethoric is not neutral, especially when addressed at the West at large --especially right now, with such a global uptick in traditionalist values overall, and Japan not exactly being spared. I won't pretend to be knowledgeable enough about Japanese history and culture to pick up all the little nuances of what is going on here, but I know enough to recognize that such stories do play out a certain understanding of this country's history, its fears and its difficulties to reconcile with its own (very recent) past as a colonialist empire --both the terrors it unleashed on others and the terrors that were unleashed upon it as it was dismantled. Instead of exploring that subject, every potential for nuance and conversation and self-criticism is slammed shut immediately, often at the cost of their own characters and the depth of their quest design/writing. The unearthed past agrees with its current understanding of itself; there is nothing discovered that leads to being questioned and reconsidered. Everything wrong is the fault of a single, corrupting entity that can be identified as Foreign and Other. There is a literal Heaven (zonai and civilized, Rauru's) and Hell (monstrous and corroding, Ganon's). None of this is neutral. Especially when infused in a game targeted for a young audience lacking context.

So I hope this very verbose answer helped a little to parse out what is being criticized at which level! Thank you for giving your thoughts, and I hope mine were clarifying to a degree.

I understand it can get a little confusing; but a lot of the urge not to take this scene at face value is born from the knowledge that nothing is ever that simple in real life, that these sort of self-serving narratives often hide horrific amounts of systemic harm underneath its perfectly curated presentation, and that, well. Some Zelda fans, especially the older generations that were invested in these characters and their re-imagining, expected Nintendo to be less..... like this.

And the wake-up call stings a little more than we would have liked.

(again obligatory disclaimer that I'm not saying TotK is Bad or should be Cancelled or that you're Bad for liking it --but it's still important to explicitly talk about how themes like these are being utterly glossed over when I don't think they would have been if they'd come out of a new IP, and not with the huge nostalgia cloud that envelops The Legend of Zelda and has people being extremely uncomfortable at criticizing the ideas the series can sometimes champion --though the series never veered in that direction nearly as hard before in my opinion)

[sheeparuu]

I’ll call it Severed link au for now.

So I was always a sucker for a bad ending and I wanted to put out a few ideas cuz I thought it would be fun. Yes it started from Linked Universe since I’ve seen people make their own versions and I thought it would be cool to do it too. Also, English is not my first language.

Games I’ve finished:

1.  Sky: Inheriting a god’s power after defeating them is not something Link would have expected to happen after stopping Demise. Still, if the corruption of his mind and body is not enough proof of that, his old home falling out of the sky might be.

2. Twilight: Having a pointy chunk forcefully jammed in one’s brain is bad, using it to keep switching between hylian and beast form is worse, loosing their mind the more they shift is the worst. At least he might be able to get a position as Ganon’s lap dog.

3. Wind: One would be surprised how hard it is to kill a parasitic entity, especially when it takes over your body as a host. Still, after such a gruelling fight, it might remain inactive for a long time, licking its wounds at the bottom of the sea.

4. Spirit: When the hero fails saving his best friend and end up having to swear allegiance to the demon lord inhabiting her body, everything seems to be going to hell. But having that fight with the said demon awaken something from the sea might be just as bad.

5.Wild: Sometime even if a friendly goat amputates your arm, it might not completely remove the malice from your blood stream, or stop it going to your brain. It might just slow it down enough for you to realize that something is taking over you from inside out.

Games I haven’t played/ finished but I tried to research:

6. Losing your uncle, the girl of your dream and having the path to Lorule closed might give someone things to grieve about. Hoarding magical items and knowledge for the purpose of “keeping the people you love safe” is also bad. Being swayed by the dark magic to the point where turning people into stone to “protect them” is, you guessed it, bad.

7. Time: Once a certain evil entity realizes that the kid carrying godness power is a better target than a mere Skullkid it might just have to switch hosts. Maybe if the other masks the “hero” carried weren’t splitting his mind like hair ends he could have stood a chance.

8. Four: Sometime allaying with the wrong side, even if you plan to change sides once you get the upper hand, might lead to actions that you can never forgive yourself for. And sometimes the shame grows to the point you can’t even face the three other versions of yourself, even when they are fighting the big bad of your world. And sometimes when they lose, you might feel the most vulnerable you’ve ever been.

9.Warriors: Maybe if the portals Cia chose to open lead to worlds were the heroes won their adventures, the story would have been different. Maybe if she never realized that Link wouldn’t be hers, even by force, she wouldn’t have turned him into a puppet king. Maybe if his mind wasn’t completely aware of everything around him, while being completely disconnected from his body he wouldn’t have had to agonize like this.

10. Hyrule: Sometimes when a the kindness and heroism of a child is rejected by the entire world and the cult that’s following him takes a much more manipulative approach instead of trying to kill him, it might just end much worse for the common man.

Notes: I always liked the idea that heroes are not purely good and always getting the good ending, and that if their life had just enough differences they would have failed/turned to the dark side. I mostly thought it would be cool for the characters to have a “failed” version and in my head they could serve as a “self discovery journey” for the og heroes. Like having to compare yourself with your worst version would cause some major introspection.

P.S: Yes I added Spirit since I think he and Wind could have some really cool dynamics. Also if someone already did the idea before me I'd like to know.

[waroferas]

Cia HyWars is pure evil?

There is so much I could say about Cia . and i will ! you’re stuck with me now idiot !!!!! (speaking into an empty room)

i was going to skip this section bc if anybody reading this somehow didn’t know who Cia is then like . google is right there . but zeldadungeon actually has fuck all to say about cia’s backstory and i would never knowingly subject someone to the fandom wikis.

Cia was originally known as the Guardian of Time, a minor deity tasked with overlooking the checks and balances of the triforce across the past and future. She did this work alone, and her psyche was left vulnerable to a fragment of ganondorf’s soul. Her admiration and jealousy of the holder’s of the triforce was manipulated until she became physically fragmented, her “light half” being cast from her as she was fully corrupted.

That half goes on to become Lana, and what remains of Cia wants two things: Collect Link like barbie doll, and help Ganondorf restore his soul and gather the triforce so she can Collect Link like barbie doll. She’s the main antagonist of the game now.

why would she do this? is she stupid?

being lonely makes you crazy and i mean this very genuinely.

Hyrule Warriors is constantly hammering in that you need to rely on other people through gameplay And story beats. i would even say that friendship and teamwork is one of the strongest and most recognizable themes. In the very first stage there is an honestly comical back and forth that goes as follows: link runs in to fight volga. impa runs in to save link. link hops up last second and saves impa instead . and then they round out the stage with impa saving link and delivering the hero’s tunic to him. this has to be a joke? but it isn’t . they LOVE TEAMWORK !! not to mention the gameplay that forces you to run around and help your allies, or the massive story beat that revolves around Link running ahead to fight on his own, which i could dissect in its own post.

unrelated but related, in the first edition of this game Cia dies. she asks lana to make her pain make sense, reveals that she knew on some level she was doomed to fail, and admits that lana really is better than her. it’s a bitter ending with very little fanfare, as ganondorf swoops in quickly to kickstart the beginning of the end.

But in later versions, there’s additional content. Cia is found to be alive, struggling against Phantom Ganon’s forces with the last of her power. She becomes an ally and she gets to live at the end, finding a happy ending in resuming her duties now as one of two Guardians of Time with Lana.

Would it be such a stretch to assume that the root of her pain was her solitude? Her admiration of Link as the revered hero, her jealousy of Zelda as the damsel who is destined to always fight by his side, and her happy ending. she easily walks away from Link, Zelda, and the allure of the triforce because now she finally has company, and knows she is leaving them all as friends. Wouldn’t it make sense thematically that in the game about friendship, the main antagonist would be driven in part by a lack of it?

this doesn’t justify starting a war

yeag . the devs for the Dynasty Warriors hack and slash series should have made it Not a war (JOKE. PARODY. but see the first sentence or the previous section)

but what about the part where she is an irredeemable creep?

look me in the eyes . i cannot describe how much this train of thought kills me. i am trying not to point at anybody specific here but it actually scares me a little bit how common and Assumed To Be True this is considering the preexisting racism and misogyny surrounding Cia’s design and role within the game

Cia is creepy towards Link. it’s not normal to disregard a person’s autonomy because you want to “make him yours”, and it’s not normal to have just So Many pictures and statues of a guy. but i have to draw the line there because Genuinely that is where it ends.

Pet names? if you play her side campaign you find that she calls Literally everyone things like “lovelies” and “darling.” Her speech mannerisms are classically cartoonish villain and i am absolutely biased because i love this

Age difference? an important thing to note is that cia’s design is one of the things the most afflicted by the aforementioned racism and misogyny. considering she has no canonical age afaik it freaks me out that people treat her like a Textual Predator with the Everything in mind.

if she’s redeemable then they did a shit job at it.

no argument there . i think everyone forever should make something new up to make up for the fact that they did a Poor Redemption . at least have her say sorry or something idunno .

in my opinion they had a lot going on when cia joined the allies, so i like to imagine she ended up getting a proper redemption arc After phantom ganon is put to bed. it lives in my head and it’s just as convoluted and weird as the rest of the game 👍

Hyrule Warriors is just an extremely elaborate excuse to play dolls

and i LOVE my tuoys. come play with meeeee come have fun with me and ciaaaaaa

[unclekoopus]

The Legend of Zelda: The Moblin’s Secret

Idea: Breath of the Wild but Majora's Mask-ified, where the Bokoblin Mask and such lets you actually turn into a Bokoblin. And at the start of the game you turn into one/get turned into one. And a big portion of the story is involved with communicating and winning over the enemy encampments as much as doing quests for the Hylians and other races.

Not that it necessarily takes place in the same Hyrule as Breath of the Wild, as limiting it to that world's incarnations of the monsters may not be ideal, but it could be like Breath of the WIld in that the more factions you bring to your side the easier the final battle will be, but if you really want to Genocide Route it, you can go fight the entire monster army right after the first act, but it's insanely difficult. Bringing each race and group over to your side reduces Ganon's forces and gives you an advantage in numbers or in a group to sabotage Ganon's defenses.

Also: Ganon gets reincarnated as/turned into a Miniblin- he gets the nickname 'Ganondwarf'- this might be part of the reason Link turns into a Bokoblin in the first place. Recruiting more forces against him lets Ganon grow more powerful over time, but reduces or sabotages the army you face in the lead up to the face off.

At the beginning of the game:

Injured, a disarmed and helpless Bokoblin Link is saved by a tribe of Bokoblins and their Moblin leader, he is nursed back to health and given a view of their side of things. “Bad Green hurt Boko, kill Boko. No like Bad Green!" “Eat meat stew, tasty, yum! Strange Boko eat, strange Boko strong again." Why are you helping me? “Big Mob say strange Boko need help. Big Mob is boss. We help strange Boko, but we helps strange Boko anyway." Why? “Why? Is right. Is Boko rule. If Boko helps. Then strange Boko helps back." “Big Mob protect Boko. Then Boko protect Big Mob."

End of the first stretch of the game has you as Bokoblin Link just having gotten back on your feet, going into Big Mob's cave after Ganon mortally wounds the moblin after being outed for being a traitor. The leader Moblin is a rebel against Ganon, one of many of a secret and ancient order which is older even than the Sheikah. Their code phrase is “It’s a secret to everyone.”

You are expecting to see Big Mob acting surprised and betrayed and ordering bokoblins to come and attack, but he seems like he almost was expecting it. You purify and remove the Bokoblin mask at last and Big Mob sees that you are the hero that his order has been secretly aiding for so long.

“You look surprised that I am not surprised, or at least that I am not angry, Hero.”

He tells you the names of other monster bosses in the land (Lizalfos, Wizzrobes, Stalfos, Octoroks) that may be sympathetic to the cause if you can infiltrate their kind and convince them, and the name of a special very old Moblin in the mountains that is the leader of the order.

With his final breath he tearfully asks you to please spare his Bokoblins, they are only trying to survive.

“They are cannon fodder to the Dark Lord, he does not care. Nor did you. And your ancestors would think nothing of slaying the underlings of Evil… This is the way of things, it is understood. You were not to know... It was to be a Secret to Everybody.”

“But can you still do so, knowing them as you have come to? They are like you, they only wish to survive.”

And it's a Song of Healing scene where Big Mob dies and leaves you his spirit in the form of a mask, which you wear to become a Moblin.

[luimagines]

Hello Pinky I hope you missed me and my Lynel Farm!

I got an idea which would be hilarious! Reader is a Link! But not any Link no they are Wild and the Link from TotK! And they are a MENACE! Why?

Well, Reader can use glitches like Bullet-Time Bounce or clipping or Wacko-Boingo. They also wear the Tunic of Wild. But they came after TotK to the game and they can duplicate everything! And everything is maxed out of capacity they can't carry a single drop more. Their Purah Pad is about to explode! But then just imagine their meeting.

Legend: „Seriously does anyone know where the fuck we are?!“

Wind: „It looks like a forest.“

Reader used BTB and yeeted themself above the group with their shield on their feet just to shield surf the hill down with speed.

Sky: „What was that?“

„I want that too!!“ with that Wild shield surfed the hill down too.

Twilight: „I will go and get him...“

But the whole group follows as Reader is obviously someone who knows where to go. But as they see Wild and Reader standing there face to face. They are just stunned. They look the same! But Reader is missing an arm and has a mechanical arm instead. But these two seem to get along. This is how they learned that Reader is Wild practically but instead of doing all the Beast, gathering memories and the shrines to pull the sword. They instantly went after Ganon. They fought in their underwear and some Weapons they found on their way and sticks against the Calamity. They don't even know what a Master Sword is! They did the shrines after the Calamity.

But even if they are so bubbly and well wild. They don't talk about their journey and to Twilight. They felt betrayed by him. They needed him as they woke up in a shrine without any orientation or knowledge where they are and what happened. They just needed Wolfie by their side and to help them with their upcoming panic attack. They also don't trust the Chain immediately. They could be Yiga or puppets, sorry for Spoilers, like the Zelda which they chased after in the present. And if someone asks about their journey they only tell the stories of The Hero of Wild not the Hero of Ruins, who they are now. They turn cold and say with an icy tone „It's not your business!“

But Four should never see their weapons or he gets a heart attack. They got so many cursed weapons. But Reader is also freaking strong! Lifting a claymore is hard enough but a claymore fused with another claymore, that's heavy! They fused two Biggoron Swords together or two Dusk Claymores. They also hear the poes in the Depths and that's how they got the weapons. Thanks to the talking statues.

Reader also talks more to their horse and this one isn't small! Even Ganondorf's stallion is smaller than that. It's a giant white stallion and it stomps on everything that comes across their way! With the beautiful name "Thunder" because this thing has loud stomps! But since it's so tall it also takes great maintenance and that's Reader's therapy. When they take care of their giant, they don't feel the phantom pain of losing their arm or hear the whispers of the dead. Just the snorts of their horse and the brush. They also sleep with their horse but mostly on fields or caves as forests can have Evermeans and they want to sleep one time without an ambush from everything that wants their death!

Wild and Wild obviously are all around their giant horse. Four is all about their Lynel Sword collection, swords fused with lynel horns. Twilight tries to mend the bridge while they both are carrying about their horses. Legend and Hyrule ask about the sages and their abilities. Warriors and Time tries to get them comfortable enough so they share their journey. Sky teaches them about the Master Sword but they turn off as soon as he begins with Hylia. They are an atheist they don't believe in her.

The rings from Rauru as they lost their arm are built into the artificial arm as the sages gave them an oath of loyalty.

I feel like I understood about 50% of this because I know so little about Totk.

I know about the arm of course and the the cursed weapons! XD

Four would absolutely lose his mind about them. He freaked out when Wild broke his sword on a rock- just wait until that Reader attached a rock to their sword.

I don't know if they would even know who Wolfie is. If he was never there for them since BotW, then would they even know that Wolfie was someone who would have had to there anyway?

So it would be more like-

Wild: Wolfie was a great help to me when I needed him most the first time around. Reader: ...Who? Wild: The wolf... the wolf that followed me- us- you (?) around? Reader:.... Nope. I don't have a clue who you're talking about.

And another note, I do think that they wouldn't trust the chain off the bat though. You're right. They could be yiga in disguise. A new threat to the the land or to Zelda. There's just something off about them that Reader wouldn't have been able to tell what it was.

Especially since they might not even have all their memories anyway. If they did the shrines after Ganon, then who's to say they would have bothered with doing them all anyway? They coudl have just checked out a few, got bored and left it at that.

They might not have any of their memories and are perfectly fine that way.

[the-east-art]

:0 tears of the kingdom rant? I’m interested

Helllll yeah. Nothing that hasn't been said before but IM saying it this time.

The biggest thing for me I think it that I wanted the story to surprise me AT ALL. Zelda being the dragon was kinda surprising, but like, that's like one part. I keep thinking 'oh Ganon will be good' 'oh maybe Mineru will backstab her brother' 'oh what if by swallowing the secret stone to become immortal Zelda became evil?' (I initially thought the dragon part of immortal dragon was metaphorical). 'Oh the mask controlled Yunobo, maybe the Sage masks are bad too!' Literally for them to do anything surprising with the story. Instead it was all really straightforward.

Many people have mentioned, but the constantly repeated cutscenes are so boring, it makes each region and the characters in them feel so copy and pasted. A bunch of new side characters are revealed with their own character profiles, and so they are ALL underutilized. I talk a lot about the story specifically because that's what I care the most about. And totk was SO disappointing

(more elaboration under the cut)

I mean okay, skyward sword isn't perfect, but as it was the most recent zelda to botw it provides a lot of good stuff to contrast. Yes there are more characters technically in totk and botw, but the few side characters there are in ss mean that they ALL have such depth. No npcs in SS are without unique designs, personalities, and roles - whether that is wives to customers, part of the plot (kukiels dad) for a piece of it, save them briefly, engage in their night market, a bunch of options! The skipper, the two gorons, they all are memorable and do unique things. and Totk and botw just couldn't get there.

None of the dungeons feel even kind of tight - they all feel like you're just fucking around until you manage to get it to work. I never felt like I was finding the right answer - I always felt like I was bullshitting it. And that CAN be satisfying, but I definitely prefer the tighness of the older games.

I already talked a little bit about how the areas themselves are underutilized. EAsily the biggest issue with TOTK is the fact that the things you do, don't effect anything anywhere. When you learn where Zelda is it can't conflict with any of the other plots, so they just don't even try. Saving one region doesn't effect other regions. It's so disappointing.

AND THE SKY ISLANDS. God there should have been shit to do up there, or at least hints at like some of the other sky islands in previous games - whether the oocaa or skyward sword or the cloud people from minish cap. Like PLEASE. Put one giant pumpkin that's all it would have takennnnnn

Uhhh if you have any questions about how I feel about specific moments drop me an ask!

[blueskittlesart]

i would love to hear how youd want to do a botw manga

YEAAAAAAHHHHH ok ok ok so. i would have the manga follow largely the same structure as the game, beginning with link waking up on the great plateau. he would go through the opening segment almost the same as the game, but with a little more emphasis on the physical toll that the shrine has taken on him (notably i'd frame the old man's baked apple as his realization that he's HUNGRY, that his body feels physically weak and untrained after 100 years of sleep.) i would also place a lot of emphasis on the eeriness of the plateau and the fact that link feels he SHOULD remember these locations but doesn't. the plateau segment would otherwise be very game-compliant, including the shrines, tower, temple of time, and the old man's cabin as spotlighted locations. the key difference here would be that instead of the gameplay mechanic where shrines give link something physical that makes the game easier for the player, they would instead be framed as training exercises which, while lacking material reward, would help him retrain his body and regain the strength he lost in the 100 years he was asleep.

after leaving the plateau the general structure of the game would be loosely followed, (impa > purah > divine beasts & memories > ganon) with a few key pieces of worldbuilding/side quests spotlighted along the way. the first major event after leaving the plateau for link would be his discovery of the dueling peaks stable, the first real indication of human society he's seen since waking up. this would be an important introduction to the society of hyrule post-calamity, and link would also get his first horse here, finding that he's strangely good with horses and perhaps getting a quick flash of a warm feeling, almost like an old friend :)

The memories would still be initially revealed to link via images within the sheikah slate, but unlike gameplay i wouldn't have link specifically seek out memories, instead i would have him stumble upon familiar locations while exploring, which i think is closer to the original intent of that feature. he would find each memory in order and they would play out very similarly if not exactly as they do in canon. the divine beasts and their quests would also play out largely like canon, with the exception of me retconning the transphobia out of the gerudo quest line. I also might like to spend a little more time on the legacies of each champion and how their losses are felt in their respective communities. they all have very strong characterization already and i would love to take the time to expand upon it a bit more!! the same goes for the NEW champions (sidon, teba, yunobo, and riju) i'd like to take some more time to expand upon their characters as well!

the sword-claim is the one thing that i don't fully know how to deal with. i think logically, it either has to come before all of the divine beasts, or after all of them. if i put it in before all of the beasts, it would require some gratuitous shrine training montages to convey how much work it takes link to get to the point where he's able to handle the master sword, which would break up the flow of the story and imo isn't very true to the gameplay which usually just has you explore shrines as you find them during your journey. the only other option, though, is to put it in AFTER the divine beasts, which may lessen the impact it has on the story if the only time he ever ends up using it is to defeat ganon. it sort of makes it into a deus ex machina instead of a pervasive element of the story in the way it is in the game. the way that i think i would deal with this is to have link hear about the master sword's legend from npcs as early as that first stable, and have him stumble into the lost woods BEFORE he has trained enough to be able to handle the sword. he finds it, learns what it is and that it's waiting for him, but he isn't able to claim it in his current state. this gives him a tangible goal to work towards for the rest of the story--a reason to continue entering shrines and growing stronger while he's doing divine beast quests. it also allows the master sword to remain present and active in the narrative without forcing link to get too strong too fast. THEN, when he's finished all the divine beasts, he can have a moment like, "i think i'm strong enough now. i'm prepared" and he can go BACK to the lost woods and successfully pull the sword and then go straight to ganon.

aside from the main quest line there are a few really good side quests i want to include as well, notably the kakariko yiga shrine quest and the hylian homeowner/tarrey town side quests. the former i just think is a very impactful storyline and nicely sets up the yiga as villains later on in the gerudo quest, and the latter is imo thematically important as a physical example of link rebuilding his life and watching hyrule continue to grow and heal despite the wreckage of the calamity. ideally this would be the last thing link does before facing the calamity; the wedding scene would end with link deciding the time has finally come for him to face ganon again, having found hope and community, knowing that no matter what happens hyrule will never be broken beyond repair.

the final battle would go similarly to canon, with callbacks to pieces of training link would have received earlier in the story--perfect parries, aerial archery, shield surfing, and all of the champion abilities would be highlighted during the battle, which would come to a triumphant end with ganon finally defeated and link and zelda reunited.

sooo yeah! largely canon-compliant but with certain aspects adjusted for readability. botw has such a strong narrative that it would actually be super easy to adapt imo but that might just be my opinion because i never think about anything else lol

[snowstories]

Tentative ideas for a Marin and Link role reversal AU:

Hyrule takes the place of Koholint in this AU, obviously.

Marin is from the isolated island of Koholint, which she set sail from on a rickety boat because she desperately wanted to explore the world. She shiprecks on Hyrule's coast. She is not a hero, didn't have an adventure prior to this.

Hyrule is in a state of perpetual war and has been for some time. The forces of Ganon (the nightmares) invaded a while ago and it's been a fight ever since; a fight that Hyrule is losing. Ganon's nightmare vision of the world, the Dark World, has been bleeding through increasingly often. Soon there will be nothing left of Hyrule.

Link is still the hero of Hyrule; it's his job to keep the monsters at bay as much as possible. Because everyone else is either too scared/hopeless or taken over by the nightmares, he's functioning as a one-man army right now. It's going poorly.

Zelda takes the role of the Wind Fish; upon coming to the island Marin is told that the only way to stop the war is to wake the sleeping princess, but the castle she sleeps in is locked down tight; no-one can get in. Hyrule is, of course, Zelda's dream.

The story is not about fighting the nightmares; it's about bringing hope to the dream. Marin set out to sing to many people and bring them happiness and by god that's what she'll do. I'm thinking more magical girl show than action/adventure game.

Hyrule is a reflection of Zelda; the people's hopelessness and the increasing darkness of the world reflect her as well. Marin counters this by befriending the people of the dream, befriending them, singing to them, reminding them that there's still hope and happiness and something worth fighting for. As she does, she is healing wounds left in Zelda's psyche by extension, which slowly but surely unlocks the castle. Bit by bit she gets the different parts of the dream to join forces and fight Ganon.

Link represents the one part of Zelda that will always be willing to fight; however, he is tired and wants nothing more than peace.

Kinda playing with the idea of Link having a different Dark World form in this one as well, but reversed; he is a pink bunny rabbit in the Light World, and a human in the Dark World. His original form is that of the bunny, but when he needed to fight monsters he became the Hero. Marin wouldn't find out they're one and the same until very late. Not committed to it yet but I think it could be really cool.

Regardless, a pink bunny absolutely takes the role of the owl as Marin's guide, at least in the Light World.

Depending on whether I'm willing to move this story even further away from Link's Awakening, it could be really fun to have Ganon be a force from inside the dream, rather than outside nightmares. Since this story is more a battle for mental health than a dream adventure anyway it might be more interesting to just go full-throttle with it and have Zelda's greatest enemy be a part of herself she really doesn't like. Also has really funny climax potential with Marin singing Ganon down.

Again, depending on just how far I want to move from Link's Awakening, might be worthwhile to make Zelda more human, with her having lived through a war and having had this cause trauma that's reflectrd into the dream. She'd be more of a human who has achieved deity status in that case than a straight-up god.

Involving the Triforce seems a super obvious move but I'm still mulling over how best to use it. It'd probably be a representation of Zelda's heart though.

I think it'd be really fun if Link's ocarina is something he acquired over the course of the story and represents kind of a merging of two sides of himself, as choosing to help Marin and play the ocarina rather than draw his sword lets him act in peace while still in his capacity as the Hero.

Obviously the vibes are polar opposite to Link's Awakening in a lot of ways, because drawing from A Link to the Past here is inevitable. Still deciding how that'll affect Marin I think; I don't want this to be a unilaterally traumatic experience for her and I want her to ultimately come out of this with a net positive for her development. If nothing else, I imagine getting to help so many people via singing would be good for her.

Theming is also radically different from Link's Awakening, might be worth trying to balance that a little better.

Marin's Dark World form is a seagull :D

[skyloftsword]

Ranking Zelda stories because I am bored

Happy Easter and Trans Visibility Day! I'm bored and wanted to rank the stories of the 3D Zelda games. Spoilers of course. Ranked from favorite (top) to weakest (bottom). I also won't be including WInd Waker because I never beat it (not the game's fault, I bought HD during the Switch's lifecycle and got tired of the Wii U gamepad). A lot of my problems are just personal gripes and not really criticisms.

Tears of the Kingdom: Controversial placement, I know (I have been literally harassed SEVERAL times over this take, I am disappointed in humanity). It has its issues, but like, what thing DOESN'T have flaws? Everything is flawed, it came free with your entertainment. The plot beats for Tears of the Kingdom are absolutely insane. The Imprisoning War and the events leading up to it all felt connected and relevant to each other and the events in the present. Not to mention watching stuff like the Molduga memory and the Imprisoning War itself was extremely hype. Seeing the interactions between Sonia, Rauru, Zelda and Mineru got me really attached to these characters. The events in the present also feel meaningful and urgent. Your friends from the previous game are ACTUALLY in trouble in this game and not just being stalked by a giant robot that's doing nothing. The Sages also felt more connected than the Champions ever did. The camera not being locked behind a backtracking quest this time was cool too. Overall, this game's story hit the hardest, especially with the Dragon Tears quest.

Skyward Sword: Great story with a great cast. Backtracking is a bit of a pain and could have been handled better, but I love the events of the game. Groose's character development is truly excellent. Link and Zelda having a connection also assisted in making the adventure hitting harder.

Twilight Princess: As a former Twilight Princess hater, I would like to apologize to this game. I had a biased hatred against the game because I thought it was just TP fans that were toxic when in reality its just the Zelda fanbase as a whole that has a massive toxicity problem (not all Zelda fans are toxic). The whole beginning segment with Ordon Village and the Twili Realm sets up Link's quest perfectly. The story as a whole is really great until Ganondorf. Ganondorf in this game is genuinely really weak as a character, same with Zelda. They at least have the manga to help them but still...

Majora's Mask: I love the concept for this game's story and for the most part its really well done. Its just short and a lot of the interesting stuff is in the side quests. This is totally fine because it helps get me invested in the world, but most side quests are just... meh. Anju/Kafei, the grandma stories and the Romani Ranch quest lines (including the Ranch Race with the Gorman Brothers) are really great though.

Breath of the Wild: Man... This game's backstory is SO, SO, SO GOOD. Like wow is it good. I just HATE how its told. Stuff that would be cool to see is NEVER shown. Like why not show us Zelda and Link vs Calamity Ganon? Not to mention the Camera backtracking quest... I will say, at least it made the Champion's Tunic plot relevant. TotK should've made the Leathers important. Also the Divine Beast quests just don't sit right with me (outside of the Gerudo one, that one was really great). The Divine Beast fights are incredible though, they make up for the atrocious dungeon bosses.

Ocarina of Time: Too boring and unoriginal for me. Yes, TotK takes a lot from BotW's style of story, but it at least builds upon it and has unique aspects like Crisis at Hyrule Castle and Mineru's entire questline. I do like how Ganondorf mocks Link, especially in the Forest Temple, as it makes him more relevant. Ganondorf waiting until Zelda gave Link the Light Arrows just was incompetent though.

Alright, that's my ranking of each 3D Zelda story I have an opinion on. I very much expect disagreement (especially with TotK) and that's fine, just please do not attack me over this stuff. Its just opinions. I've been harassed way too much over my takes on TotK, its tiring.