#i used to identify as bi and while i was attracted to different genders in different ways

[focsle]

Do I still have to see people blanket defining bisexuality in a reductive and incorrect way in 2023? Do I?

[halfdeadfriedrice]

it's pride month so i'm promoting lgbtq+ learning at work! what does this mean? someone sent me a suggestion that the training we were promoting had inaccurate descriptions of bi/pan sexuality, I dipped my toe back into the discourse of how those are defined, remembered "it's the same fucking thing" and then changed nothing

[genderkoolaid]

Hello! Non binary here. I'm trying to genuinely understand how saying bi lesbians are a thing are not harmful to the trans, lesbian and bi community. I saw some of the bi lesbians history and this label seems to be something they used to say to identify that they felt mostly attraction to women but could eventually like a man / people that liked men in the past but now go as lesbians. On the first example, Isn't it just bisexuality with a preference to women? and in the second, lesbians with comphet. I understand the need to use those labels in the past, but now it seems harmful to use bi lesbian because lesbians are not attracted men and bisexuals are not lesbians. I have also seen that the use of bi lesbian was a reactionary push to the TERF movement of excluding men from queer spaces as in a way to "purify" women

While someone in either of the groups you described might identify as a bi lesbian, that is certainly not the extent of bi lesbianism.

I think the problem emerges for many people because they are viewing the definitions of queer terms as objective descriptions we discovered. From this perspective, people used to use lesbian in a more expansive sense essentially because they didn't know any better. But I dislike that; our foreparents were not identifying how they did because they didn't know better, their constructions of gender and sexuality are just as valid. And it's important to understand why those definitions formed instead of going “well it's different now so stop it.”

I'm not sure if you are saying you've heard TERFs came up with the term bi lesbian. I wouldn't be surprised, since it's a fairly common rumor. But it's very wrong. To give a very general history, “bi lesbian” came about to describe people who identified with lesbianism– in the sense that they identified with being queer, having some personal relationship with womanhood and loved or desired women– who also were multisexual in some way. “Lesbian” emphasized your love/desire for women as an important part of your identity, and “bisexual” gave nuance to that, creating visibility for bi people within the community. The outrage against bi lesbians came from the same source as the hatred for trans lesbians (of all kinds): radical feminist beliefs in political lesbianism, the insistence that being a lesbian is a political choice to end all personal relationships with men & manhood.

The idea that “lesbians, universally, aren't attracted to men” largely comes out of this shift. You cannot separate the idea that “bi lesbians” don't/shouldn't exist and the legacy of transphobic radical feminism which encourage black-and-white thinking and hostility towards Bad Queers who dared to love or desire men, be men, dress like men, or fuck like men (anything from BDSM to using a strap-on). This divide is artificial and we do not need to just accept it. Bi lesbians are not the source of harm, the ideology that insists on their exclusion is. On top of this, in many physical queer communities bi lesbians & other people with complicated identities are very easily accepted; the idea that it's somehow impossible for these identities to be safely normalized is just queer conservatism.

There are many reasons someone might enjoy the bi lesbian label: personally, I'm multigender and using a single sexuality label doesn't accurately express my sexuality. A lot of times I see people who counter reasons for bi lesbian identity by saying “but that's just being a lesbian/bisexual!” which is another product of this black-and-white thinking. The idea that someone else with a similar experience using a different label than you– or someone with a different experience using the same label– is somehow a threat to your identity is very reminiscent of the way radical feminism relies on patriarchal ideas that everyone in a gender group must self-police that group to ensure homogeneity. Someone with a totally “normal” bisexual experience may still identify as a bi lesbian, or use both bisexual and lesbian in varying contexts, because they feel it accurately expresses their personal sexuality & relationship to queer communities.

There's famously an Alison Bechdel strip about a character being a bi lesbian, but I think my favorite piece of bi lesbian art is this poem by Dajenya. It's a very defiant and wholehearted response to anti-bi-lesbian sentiment and how it harms people within the community far more than bi lesbian identity does. this site is a collection of primary resources on bi lesbianism, including a few interviews from bi lesbians which might be helpful for you.

[tizeline]

Happy pride month and all!

I figured now was a good time to ask, but do you have any thoughts about the sexuality of the characters in your Sep AU?

Sorry if you’ve been asked already, and the answer can definitely be no, I’m just curious :)

Happy pride!! ✨

Here's the thing about headcanons about queer identities, I personally prefer to not get too stuck on specific labels. While there are exceptions, I generally try to remain flexible if that makes sense? As in I like having multiple different interpritation about characters' identities so deciding on One Particular Label can feel limiting to me.

I mentioned it before, but I do plan on making Capril an established relationship in the AU sooner or later, so April and Casey are definitely sapphic. But more specific than that? Are they lesbian or bi or pan or whatever?? I dunno!! It's not really relevant to the story so I might as well leave that up to interpretation.

My approach to creating stories is that I'll usually only decide on specific labels if it is plot relevant, Schrödingers Identity if you will, lol, it can be anything if you don't decide on it beforehand. Again, there are exceptions, Leo is gay 100% like duh I can't interpret him any other way XD. Splinter is a Bi-Icon and I will STAND BY THAT!

Raph, Donnie and Mikey? Man who knows, canon Donnie seems to be into girls at least so it's the same in the AU, but more specific than that I dunno, I'm not planning on the story really focusing on romance (aside from a little capril because every story needs sapphics that's like the law)

Actually, you know what I find fun? World building! I honestly tend to be more interested in how queer identities are viewed and treated in a story's world as a whole as opposed to induvidual character's identities. Human society in rottmnt seems to be mostly the same as our IRL society, but what about Yōkai society!? With how diverse yōkai are I think it'd be fun if people in The Hidden City just... didn't care about who you loved or what you identified as. As a result of that, I don't think yōkai would care that much about terminology and labels, you just kinda loved whoever you loved.

It'd be honestly be kinda interesting if Donnie and April used terminology that related to queer stuff and Raph, Leo and Mikey are just really confused. Like for example, April is complaining about one of her classmates who's homophobic and the The Drax Bros are just like "Home-phobic??? They're afraid of homes??" cuz the concept of discriminating against someone based on which gender they're attracted to is completely foreign to them. Actually, Leo might be more knowledgable about human queer culture considering he's interested in human cultures in general. He calls himself gay at one point and Draxum is all like "you're happy? good for you?" and he'd just be wondering why Leo is using such an old-timey word considering Leo doesn't exactly have the most advanced vocabulary.

[arklayraven]

I can't sleep rn while this annoyed/pissed off. So time to remind people OM is canonly a queer game as hell and to tell the queerphobes and transphobes to FUCK OFF. (Seriously, why are you following me if you hate queer and trans people/characters? Get out of here.)

This is a official post by OM devs over the creation of OM and their MC. Read the left section well.

"OM isn't a queer game" many like to say.

The game, writers and characters beg to differ.

From someone kind who felt they knew all about the game and characters well, even tho they played it themselves.

Let's go back to that official post by Solmare about OM and this section specifically.

Hope you read that well, and the person(and many who think/believe this) learns how damn wrong they are.

Also...God don't bring up my Asmo and act like you know all about him. Another thing from that kind person.

Firstly, canonly none of the characters have set labels. But they are all in fact canonly queer. Whether you like to believe/accept this or not. It's fact, was fact from day one.

Asmodeus is the most openly proud queer boy in the series, and gender nonconforming too at that, even if he uses only he/him pronouns(but he's been shown to be fine being called princess, queen, etc. So he's clearly open to all gendered/less pronouns/labels I feel).

He drips of gender fluidity, and going against gender presentation norms(Babe has presented so fem and nonconforming for awhile now. Learn to look at him and appreciate him better). So take note of all of that, and never say again he's not queer, because that's a damn fucking lie.

Also I hate how bi is used as default for queerness as a whole for characters who are interested in more than one gender, and wish for the day people stop using it as so. (Use MSPEC or just queer if you wish to sound more inclusive of all possible labels/identities for a canon queer character with no canon label set.)

Second, back to what I said before, ALL THE CHARACTERS IN OM ARE QUEER. If you ship your MC or yourself with them, know that's a canon queer character you're pairing them/yourself up with. And you can't erase their queerness and identity. Especially if it makes you personally feel bothered or crap.

And before you say anything, dating them, as a straight woman, doesn't automatically make them straight now too. They are still queer, but are dating you, who happen to be a straight woman. (stop being damn queerphobic challenge.)

I'm already tired of this crap, so gonna end this now and fast.

OM is a canon queer game, and was made with a MC who is genderless to be inclusive of ALL PLAYERS. This opened the door quickly for men, nonbinary, etc players to enjoy the game too, and be part of the fandom as well. There's as much men and nonbinary players in the series like women are, but only difference is in the fandom mainly. Many people choose to see which fans or MCs are more accepted in the community, and which ones to show more love/attention too.

If you tried to expand your horizons more, you will surely quickly find people who identify as men, nonbinary, etc in the fandom as well. And learn how we're here, always been here, just greatly drowned out or ignored by a vast majority of people just because of who we are. (Lots of people with dislike for MCs who are men, or just plain damn queerphobia and transphobia in the works.)

The more people try to ignore the clear fact men and nonbinary people play OM too. The more easier it is for them say OM and its characters aren't canonly queer, and they can feel special/happy about playing the game. That they want to believe was just made to cater to women only. But in reality it was made to be catered to all players, no matter their gender identity or lack of, and same for romantic/sexual attraction.

Also another thing I forgot to add to put more facts that OM is a queer game to be inclusive of ALL PLAYERS.

Already, the undateables from day one are canonly queer too. If you need to be reminded and stated that as well.

That's pretty much it on this annoying tiring topic.

Enjoy playing OM, the canonly queer game made for ALL PLAYERS. <3

[rainbowsforbeginners]

Rainbow 101: 001

Today’s topic, as voted by you: What is LGBTQIA+?

Hello, class!

Welcome to Rainbow 101!

To start us off, today I’ll explain the acronym LGBTQIA+:

It stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning, Intersex, and A-spec - And the little “plus” at the end stands for any other queer labels that don’t fit neatly into the main acronym!

You may also see it shortened to LGBTQ+, LGBT+, LGBT, as well as a few others - But, they all refer to the same community!

Now, as this is a beginner-friendly lecture, I’ll also give a brief explanation of the main “flagship” identities - Though I highly encourage you do your own research of any terms you find interesting, as I will likely not be able to cover all nuance here!

Also, if anyone has any comments, questions, corrections, or kudos, please put them in the ask box after class!

Alright, let’s get started:

Lesbian:

Someone who is a lesbian is a women who is attracted to other women - Non-binary people can also use this label if they wish! The term Lesbian is also related to the terms WLW and Sapphic - Though I recommend finding sources who are more well-versed in those labels to understand the nuances/differences!

Gay:

The “proper” definition of gay is similar to lesbian, being a man who is attracted to other men - And non-binary folk can use this one, too! - However, you will also find many people use “gay” as a broad blanket term similar to “queer,” so context is useful here! Gay is also sometimes called MLM (men-loving-men, not multi-level-marketing :) )

Bisexual/Biromantic:

Someone who is bisexual/biromantic is attracted to multiple genders - Commonly interpreted as simply “likes both men and women.” But, as with many of these labels, there can be nuance that is different for every person; Such as having attraction for multiple, but preferring one over another. You’ll often see Bisexual/Biromantic shortened to Bi!

Transgender:

Someone who is transgender doesn’t fully identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. For example, someone who was born as a girl named Jane and later transitions to a man named John. (Something to note here: While many transgender people do fully identify with the “opposite” gender, and undergo various visual/biological transformations (ha!), there are many who don’t do either! Some people only change their pronouns, and some may not change anything!) Non-binary people are also under this umbrella term - though not everyone identifies with the label! You’ll often see Transgender shortened to Trans!

Queer/Questioning:

From what I’ve seen, “Queer” is a pretty broad label, often used as a collective term for all LGBTQIA+ people - But, I’ve also seen some people use it as a catch-all personal miscellaneous label, when they don’t care to explain or define the details! “Questioning” is pretty simple - It just means the person is figuring out some aspect of their identity, but hasn’t quite gotten there yet!

Intersex:

This one I don’t know as much about as I could, but my understanding is that an intersex person falls between or outside of the biological sex binary - And it can be as drastically obvious as physical organ differences, or more often, as subtle as having unusual chromosomes!

A-spec:

A-spec, or the A-spectrum, is a wide category for those who experience little, no, and/or specifically-parametrized attraction! Aromantic (or Aro, little-to-no romantic attraction) and Asexual (or Ace, little-to-no sexual attraction) are the more popular, “flagship” labels, but the A spectrum also includes Aplatonic, Agender, Afamilial, Asensual, and probably a few others I don’t know of! To oversimplify for the sake of comedy, the A-spec is for those of us who look at everyone else and go, “No thanks!” with varying degrees of intensity.

Plus (+):

And the + is for everyone else who might not fit within the above!

…And there you have it - That was a lot, and I’m glad you stuck around to the end!

I want to note here that many of these labels have more sub-labels nested under them, and/or have more nuance than we covered today - So, if any of you have questions or clarifications, or have a correction to make, please feel free to drop a note in my ask box!

Also, any ideas for future topics to cover would be much appreciated!

Batteries and Bars,

Neon

[verdemoun]

timewarp au going to pride:

jake adler has bi wife energy set to his ringtone. king of bead bracelets. he made them himself and hands them out with dangerous enthusiasm. will see somehow hitting on sadie (who is very thank you cutie but i'm married) and be like hello friend i also think my wife is beautiful stunning perfect human being have a bracelet. sadie is also dressed like a cliche tucked in plaid shirt cuffed jeans doc martens finger guns sweeping her husband off his feet and kissing him

bill has the tiniest pride flag but absolutely glared and intimidated his way to the front of the barriers and forgets to blink while watching the march. malfunctions when men actually flirt with him and has to sit down like his self-esteem is so low pls help him. gets called handsome and has to hold a water bottle to his head because world is spinning, does not know how to respond.

kieran and javier are taking turns annoying people with 'whats in your pants' memes intentionally put the weirdest things in their pockets like someone asks their gender and 'oh look three buttons a can of tuna and an opened pack of gum. who wants gum?' labels are too overwhelming they both identify as queer there is nothing cishet about either of them. crying over margaritas together why are we single when every single person in the world is so hot?

arthur and charles keep going on stranger missions to help find lost pins, escorting the youth to the <18 events and handing out water bottles. arthur does struggle with getting mistaken for a right-wing protestor because big scowl-y muscle tall white man with old timey cowboy hat and needs charles to rescue him from getting yelled at because he is too polite to interrupt people.

hosea and bessie were meant to be supervising dutch and bessie had way too much fun explaining this is my husband and my husband's boyfriend. hosea fumbling trying to explain he's not my boyfriend i love my wife. meanwhile dutch escapes and bessie and hosea both just sit down like oh no. this is. bad.

dutch is attracted to the sound of angry shouting like a moth to flame. micah (who does support the gays because his grand-nephew is gay (kai is not gay but is glad the misunderstanding has lead to micah being a better person)), isaac, jack and dutch all put aside their differences for one day and will get arrested for assault and 'infringing on the right to protest' while physically fighting bigots.

annabelle and susan are wearing their 'dutch van der linde made us lesbians' shirts while also holding 'we exist' banners and people think they assume they're referring to vintage lesbians but of course they mean lesbians throughout history including 19th century and long before they have always existed and always will go sapphos

abigail is going out of her way to break hearts she is calling people gorgeous and kissing their cheeks before running off like a manic pixie dream girl to continue the mission to fight whoever it was that gave john their number. john does not understand phone numbers he's being given scraps of paper with numbers on them wondering if it's some kind of encrypted treasure map. also he's genuinely afraid of furries. hiding behind his wife what the fuck are those.

[joy-crimes]

A while ago I came out as being bisexual, & while it does feel amazing and liberating can I still be attracted to nb people? I the definition of bisexuality is to be attracted to men & women only & while I technically fit into pansexuality I don't necessarily identify as it. The point is can I still be bisexual if what I am contradicts the definition? I figured somebody like you could help me.

Aww hey hey that's okay <3

I'll shed some light onto my thought process, as I'm a firm believer that bisexuality does NOT exclude nonbinary people.

So, everyone has their own way of defining their sexuality. It just so happens that bisexuality and pansexuality have a lot of overlap, but the distinction is still important to people, and that's okay

Personally I identify as bi/pan because the distinction between the two is largely negligible to me. I believe that the overlap on the venn diagram between the two is where my sexuality falls. I tend to just say I'm bisexual cuz like. it tends to be the aspect of my identity that gets erased the most, but it's important enough to me to where I like to assert it as much as I can to deny that erasure.

Some definitions i've heard for inclusivity's sake are as follows (but whether or not you want to follow these definitions is flexible to your own comfort level):

Bisexuality CAN be defined as attraction to both YOUR gender, and genders that differ from your own (hence the "bi" meaning 2). This is a little less rigid than saying that bisexuality is strictly an attraction to MEN and WOMEN, so some people tend to prefer it.

Pansexuality CAN be referred to as loving anyone REGARDLESS of gender, where gender doesn't actually come into consideration at all. This definition is good, but also, people who identify as bisexual COULD have largely the same thought process.

Do these sound similar?? yes! It's because they ARE similar, and they also aren't rigid definitions that everyone has to follow. The overlap is inherent for a very specific reason: comfort.

This is something that usually gets overlooked when the public consciousness talks about labels. There's a lot of arguments about specific definitions, and which labels are good or bad, which ones are inclusive, and which ones aren't, but I think these arguments leave out the central reason people use labels in the first place: Self Definition.

Labels, as they are, in reference to the LGBT community, are often used as a way to categorize and exclude other people (if you are a loser who's mean to people for identifying a certain way), but that is not their primary function. The reason we use labels (and this is true for everyone in the community), is because it helps us put words to our subjective experiences in a way that brings us the most comfort. Categorizing others is a waste of time, because the more people you meet throughout your life, the more you realize that peoples' ideas of gender and sexuality are all so varied and vast, much like the colors on a rainbow, that fitting them all into neat little boxes doesn't really work. There's no use trying to say that some labels are good and some labels are bad, because at the end of the day, the person you are observing DOES NOT identify as YOUR PERSONAL dictionary definition of their label. Rather, they have their own subjective experience, and they've chosen their own labels to define them (as rigidly or as loosely as they may).

Self-identifying is what it's always been: an individual's subjective reality put to words that make them comfortable.

It doesn't have to be any more specific than that <3

[whycaninotfindausername]

Rambling rant/vent about queer impostor syndrome and the difficulties of discovering your queerness later in life, skip if it's potentially triggering or you're just not interested

So I'm 28 and AMAB and been living as "cishet" pretty much my whole life. I've been passing as straight my entire life because in school everyone using "gay" or a slur as their default insult basically made me just not want to engage with queerness at all so I kind of shoved those feelings away, and then for most of my adult life I have been in a relationship a woman. I admitted to myself that I was bi a couple years ago, but I never really explored that part of my sexuality outside of private thoughts and fantasies.

Now, I'm recently single and wanting to experiment and explore my sexuality and gender but I feel so distant from other queer people. I know that I'm attracted to more than just women, and I spend way too much time looking at egg memes and secretly trying on girls' clothes and wanting to be cute and pretty to realistically keep identifying as a cis man in the long term, but because pretty much everyone perceives me as just another cishet guy, I don't know how to actively engage with queerness. It's especially disheartening when I'm around queer people and they make jokes about me being a "token straight" or someone will reference something like drag race or something that's part of "queer culture" that I'm unfamiliar with and just say I'm too straight to get it. It just makes me feel like maybe I can't be queer because I don't fit in, and while I know that that feeling isn't based in anything rational, I still feel it.

Also seeing younger queer people so confidently assert their identities in such an open and celebratory way is bittersweet for me. It brings me so much joy to see them exploring themselves and being out and open, but at the same time, I feel envious that I haven't been able to do the same yet. I know it's never too late to come out and everything, but I wish I would have been able to do it at a younger age, when it feels more comfortable to be experimenting and trying new things. When I was at university, I experimented a lot, I hung out with different groups of people, I explored new interests, learned new ways of thinking, and all this sort of stuff, but now everything in my life is so stable that the thought of going back to that experimental and developmental stage in my life is kind of scary.

I haven't really seen/heard people voice feelings like this much before, so idk if this is going to resonate with anyone at all (especially on what is probably one of the queerest spaces on the internet) but I just wanted to get these feelings out somewhere and I figured this was probably the best place I have to do it

[radmalenia]

Isn't it annoying to see people in tumblr tags they have absolutely no business being near. A small rant incoming, you've been warned!...

Did that set some alarm bells off in your head; do you think this isn't actually a woman and a lesbian? If "yes," you'd be right...

It's a goddamn man, larping as something he can't possibly ever understand or be a part of (neither womanhood, nor same sex attraction).

And it gets better - after the pinned bio virtue signaling about how his blog gushes about women, and how that will always inherently include "trans women" and "nbwlw aligned people" or whatever the fuck; and how "transphobia" isn't cool - he throws in the anime gif, and the "MEN DNI" 😭

Can't forget the convoluted, terrible definition of "lesbian" that already excludes the dude himself.

Um, buddy; YOU ARE THE CREEP.

I guess what dumbfounds me so much is how a human being can exist in such an enormously high level of cognitive dissonance, delusion, and denial of self. How does the brain maintain it? How has this male made an entire blog larping as something he is the absolute total opposite of, how does he write out things that inherently mean he isn't a part of it; how does he attempt to ward away others like himself while not realizing he's one of them (i.e, the creep comment.)

Yes, it does make you a creep to have sexual thoughts about women when you're a male and label them "lesbian" and try to force them and yourself into lesbian spaces. You can never understand gay/bi women's love and attraction for other women. It is so different from yours.

Anyway... I know there's a lot of these trans identified male "transbians" on here. I know it's nothing new. It just can't help but gross you out to see one in a lesbian tag projecting his fetishistic fantasies out as though they're coming from a gay woman. And the way so many people just smile and nod and let them get away with it relatively uncriticized. That's sad and nasty...such is the world in the age of gender ideology.

At least they make it easy for actual women to tell the larpers apart from us 🤦‍♀️rant over! Stay vigilant, ladies

[bilesproblems]

honestly the term mspec lesbian term is super new to me and i did read some of your posts which do make sense but at the same time not.. its like teaching me 1+2= -3 . however, even if i see someone using the terms bi lesbian or anything of the sort i really wont mind. I understand that we as a community, especially since im a lesbian and we fought to give you guys these rights, should stay together because in the end homophobes want us all deas and they wont cherry pick the ones who hate their own community.

ok coming back to my original idea, if they feel attractions to the sexes but only willingly date women or fem alligned etc etc why wont they just say lesbian? or sapphic (depending on their own gender)?

again, no offense! sorry if this is a constant question, or if i skipped over something that answered this (⁠*⁠´⁠ω⁠｀⁠*⁠) have a great day!

The reasons people identify with mspec lesbian instead of just lesbian if they feel attraction to all but only want to be with women is because they are both at the same time, and by using both labels they can explain their identity fully. That attraction might still be significant to their life, or they might just want to highlight that their experience as a lesbian may differ from someone else's experience as a lesbian because of their mspec attraction.

As for why not use sapphic, a lot of us also use sapphic, but "sapphic" is a super broad term that only denotes wlw and adjacent, while "mspec lesbian" can more specifically articulate the experience that someone has.

Hope that makes sense, thank you so much for looking around to educate yourself and for asking in good faith, and thank you for expressing your support even without understanding fully. You have a nice day too!

[nieves-de-sugui]

A Gay For You trope conversation

This is a thought that has come to me after reading the manga of Tokyo in April is...

First, I gotta say the show was a very good adaptation of the manga imo. There are some details that are different but overall the spirit of the story is the same, and I praise the makers of the show for it. Great job, folks 😎👍

Secondly, onto the topic of this post. I am definetly not the first to talk about this, @heretherebedork talks about it in this post. And @emotionallychargedtowel also touched upon this on another post. But I want use this post to gather both thoughts and expand on that conversation.

As I was reading the scene with Kazuma and Ryunosuke facing each other, a thought came to me. The manga really does go more into the Gay For You trope than the show does. When Kazuma says that he doesn't care about gender, that he's only interested in Ren, in the show there is still some possibility left for Kazuma to identify as some type of queer, however it goes a little differently in the manga.

read from right to left, from scanbean's scanlations

Both in the manga and the show Kazuma rejects any label and it could be said that he basically describes himself as "Ren-sexual". However, while in the show it's left more ambiguous (since being bi could still be a possibility) in the manga he rejects both the gay and bi labels. He does not confirm being heterosexual either, so it doesn't fall a 100% into the gay for you trope.

The Gay For You trope (for those who might not know it) is basically a straight main character being in a homosexual relationship while maintaining their heterosexuality. While this has been a trope widely used in Japan, it is true that recently it has been more of a "only attracted to you". So while they do not identify with any queer label they do not declare their heterosexuality as sternly as before. Even though this in a gay relationship but still straight most likely stems from homophobia, this recent shift in Japanese BL makes for an interesting conversation.

In the posts I mentioned above Heretherebedork describes this as some kind of demisexuality. And Emotionally Charged Towel ponders upon if this might be related to the early Shonen Ai idea of "pure" love.

I feel like Japan has a tendency to explore situations "out of the norm/societal expectations" without diving into the specifics. Scratching the surface of themes that step away from heteronormativity while not really diving deep into it either. There's a duality of characters that might or might not use western labels to understand themselves or their feelings. We can see this in how Koisenu futari talked about asexuality (very specifically) VS how Me, My Husband And My Husband's Boyfriend talked about polyamory (quite ambiguosly).

Personally, I wonder if there's something there to be said about how we understand romance and sexuality. Can sexuality and romance be separated succesfully without erasing the importance of one another? Are these characters that do not define themselves according to sexuality constructive in some way?

In the case of Tokyo is April is... Kazuma's mom refer to Kazuma and Ren's love as exceptional ("I have never experienced a love like that"). Kazuma's character in the show has never really considered his sexual tendencies. As highschoolers Ren asks Kazuma is he would want to have a girlfriend and have sex with her, to which Kazuma gives what would be "the expected answer" according to society. I personally believe that Kazuma's train of thought might have been something like: "Boys are supposed to like girls, and it is expected that they want to have sex with them, so probably yeah I would want to have sex with my potential girlfriend in the future". To me he does not seem to have made any kind of introspection of his own feelings or desires, as he has never thought of it he gives the probably expected answer. So who knows? He might not be straight, but he does not seem to have really given it any thought.

I like the idea of it being a sort of demisexuality.

It is intersting to consider if sexuality and romantic love can be explored separatedly. Could the use of this kind of ambiguity open the door to an new interpretation of romance? Much in the way of the yaoi concept of "pure love"?

This are the questions that have popped into my brain regarding the possibilities of the tropes. I hope it makes for an introduction or starting point to a more developed conversation of the topic.

I hope some of this stirs up thoughts on those that know a lot more than me about these topics, and are so much better at explaining them. I'd love to read whatever @bengiyo @waitmyturtles @wen-kexing-apologist @emotionallychargedtowel @heretherebedork and anyone else that sees this might have to say about it :) ...if there's anything to say at all

[genderkoolaid]

It’s weird because I love my non-binary and genderfucked siblings, I have two friends who have “weird” “cringe” genders and I love them and I think they do gender so well. But I’m scared that by “demolishing” the gender binary, I won’t get to be a binary man anymore. What does that mean? I want people to see me on the street and think “he/him”, I want people to think of me as heterosexual when I show affection to my girlfriend. I want to be a binary man, and I don’t know how to do that in non-binary world

Playing with gender and fucking with it is good and I fully support people doing that. But I do not want to be seen as anything other than Pure 100% man, I have been constantly called “they” as a way to undermine my masculinity and refusal to gender me properly by people who know my pronouns. I don’t want to be seen as anything other than a Man. I want to be associated fully with masculinity, I don’t want to seen as a lesbian, I don’t want to be seen as anything other than a heterosexual man. Not even that I don’t want to be seen as a lesbian, I don’t want to be associated with lesbians. I’m a trans man, I’m a MAN and my attraction to women is heterosexual, and I cannot accept ideas that tell me otherwise because that would cause me to misgender myself, and I’m tired of being seen like that When I say I’m a man I don’t mean “butch boy girl lesbian” etc etc, if someone wants to be that and fuck up everything, I appreciate it, but I feel uncomfortable with them saying they’re a trans man because when I say I’m a trans man I mean a MAN as in binary man

I think its very good that you started this by acknowledging that this is a product of fear and anxiety. Its important to understand that that is where this is coming from.

You are insecure about your manhood. That is not an insult. Its entirely understandable to feel that way, especially as a trans man. There was a post a little while ago where I talked about how trans men can fall into toxic masculinity, not because its a product of being a man, but because trans men more than cis men (solely in terms of gender) have their manhood scrutinized and devalued. Manhood is a rat race & trans men are fucked over from the start, so we have to try 10x harder to be seen as Proper Men. That leads to a constant pressure to perform "proper" masculinity to the fullest extent possible to try and avoid having your manhood discredited, which can be not only emotionally damaging but legitimately dangerous.

But you need to understand, and I say this with love: this is a you problem. It is not other people's responsibility to change how they identify to soothe your insecurity about your manhood. Other people's identity, in fact, means nothing about your own. Someone else using a label you use to represent a different experience does not mean you must also share that experience, or that you cannot use that label to describe your own.

You are, understandably, fearful that your manhood (which is already constantly being scrutinized and attacked), will be further devalued if "trans man" can also mean "lesbian". You share a community and a label with those men and as a result, their genderweirdness feels dangerous. They feel like a threat to your being. This is not dissimilar to how cishet men react to visibly queer men in their communities and families: "how will people think of me, as a man, if they associate me with a man like that? I need to stop him from being a man or make him be a man right in order to protect my own manhood." This is how the patriarchy functions; make every man constantly compete with each other, under the threat of violence if they fail. Its not your fault you feel this way- you are made to feel this way on purpose because of the patriachal panopticon that makes us self-regulate- but it is your responsibility to work on yourself and resist the urge to view other men as a threat to your manhood.

"Bi lesbians" existing does not mean that people will/should assume every lesbian is bisexual, and for men to use bi lesbians as an excuse to harass lesbians is lesbophobic but not the fault of bi lesbians. In the same way, "lesbian trans men" existing does not mean that people will/should assume every trans man is a lesbian, and people using lesbian trans men (or nonbinary people for that matter) as an excuse to misgender straight trans men is transphobic but not the fault of lesbian men. In both cases, lesbians who have felt pressured to be attracted to men and trans men who have felt pressured to be lesbians see this new fusion identity as a threat to their own as a traumatic response. That fear is valid, but we need to understand that its our own fear. Its not their fault that bigots tried to pressure you to be a certain way, and their identity does not mean that those bigots were justified in any way. Other queer people are not the enemy.

If you care about your genderweird friends- and I don't doubt that you do- its important that you recognize where this fear is coming from and take steps to confront & cope with it. I don't like when people use "fragile masculinity" as an insult; fragile masculinity is part of what keeps the patriarchy running, and men with fragile masculinity need the compassion that the patriarchy will not give them. So please know that when I say you are insecure about your masculinity, I'm not saying you are doing a Bad Thing. You have been made to have a fragile masculinity as a way of controlling you, and now you need to work on healing that in order to have productive and healthy relationships with other queer people (and people in general). You can't support other queer people while also viewing them as a threat to your own manhood, even unconsciously. It requires a process of strengthening your identity as a man and not letting anyone or anything make you feel like it can be taken away because you (or someone you are associated with) Did Manhood Wrong.

You might want to check out @gay-otlc. He's a straight trans man who's talked about the issues straight trans men face, while also being supportive of lesbian trans men, and his blog might help you out with dealing with these issues. In general when it comes to identity issues, I think its very important to see and interact with other people of your identity, especially those who are confident and able to confront/cope with bigotry in healthier ways. I wish you the best, anon.

[peridotglimmer]

I had a somewhat awkward but also quite wholesome conversation about sexuality with my grandmother last night.

(Slightest content warning for some archaic views on sex on a first date?)

For context, since leaving an abusive relationship nearly 5 months ago, I've been living with my 86-year-old grandfather ("Opa") and 87-year-old grandmother ("Oma"). I'm a woman, and my ex is female as well. I identified as a lesbian when I got sucked into that relationship 12 years ago. I no longer identify as such.

(I mainly use "queer", but since this post will get into specifics: I feel most comfortable calling myself 'demi' now, with an aesthetic preference for femme-presenting people.)

Last night, Opa had already gone to bed. I was setting the table for breakfast for the next morning while Oma was doing a jigsaw puzzle. Now, Oma is pretty much the Dutch version of a WASP. She attends church religiously, even wanted to study theology as a teen (she wasn't allowed to due to her gender, and became an educational needs teacher). However, two out of two of her grandchildren are queer, and she's fully accepting of that.

I was telling a story of how I had once been accused of dressing to seduce men when I was in my early twenties, and joked: "They really had the wrong woman in mind for that," since, as far as Oma knows, I'm a lesbian.

She replied: "Hm, back then, but how about now?"

I paused. I hadn't planned on ever telling her I was demi. Not because she couldn't know, but because she doesn't exactly understand the intricacies of all the different queer identities. She's intelligent, and eager to learn, but she's also 87. (She still accidentally makes the occasional tone-deaf comment about my trans brother-in-law. Not with malicious intent, but just because she didn't grow up with these terms.)

I also didn't want to lie to her.

So I answered: "Well...I think I'm attracted to men and women these days...but I don't experience attraction unless I have a strong friendship with someone first."

Oma: "Well, that's just healthy. So many people these days just jump into bed with anyone."

Me: "That's not exactly what I--"

Oma: "But I already thought you'd expanded to more than just women. That's good. More options."

Me: "It's not just the case of not wanting to sleep with someone immediately -- which, truthfully, I couldn't ever do -- but I just don't feel that...lust."

Oma: "So you're careful. That's good. When I was a teenager you couldn't do anything before marriage. And there was no birth control so we didn't -- you were too terrified you'd fall pregnant -- but I'm not sure that was good. If you weren't compatible physically you didn't find out until you were already married. But waiting a little while is good. Take your time. If someone doesn't want to go at your pace, they're not worthy of you."

Me: "I-- that's really lovely advice, thank you."

Oma: "Of course. I love you. And...I'm always right." *laughs* (Her joking catchphrase.)

I think in the end she thinks I'm just a bi girl with pious morals when it comes to sex, but I think that's the closest we're going to get to her actually understanding it completely. And it's close enough for me.

Heck, my brother (he/him) is agender, and when asked about that, these days she answers "he's a human".

Close enough.

At 87, nearly 88, deo volente, I think that's more than all I could ask for from her.

[a-frog-in-a-bog]

We were mutuals for a while and I did really like your blog, but I really can’t tolerate panphobia. I saw a post you reblogged about phrases (that aren’t really used in the pan community anymore because of new understandings of the gender spectrum and trans people) and how they’re inherently biphobic.

Posts like that, stereotypes like that are harmful and make me scared to identify as pan within the lgbtq+ community and I will often just say I’m queer and call it a day. Bi/pan people have more commonalities than they do differences. To me they’re inherently interchangeable and the only difference is what word you feel comfortable identifying as.

Panphobia from people within the community mirrors biphobia in and outside of the community. We experience the same injustices you do, it’s just a different term. I don’t tolerate biphobia, panphobia, aphobia, or any other kind of intercommunity hatred. I’m rooting for every sub-community that are overlooked or villainized. So I wish you and yours the best, but I cannot follow you when you’re reblogging harmful posts like that.

sorry for not answering sooner, for some reason tumblr decided not to show me your ask until today. anyway pansexuality is inherently biphobic and transphobic, the modern usage was literally coined by ppl who thought they were special for being attracted to all genders, even trans ppl, unlike bisexuals. of course bi and pan have more similarities than differences. they're the same fucking thing. the only difference is that bisexuality has always meant "experiences both same and different gender attraction" whereas pansexuality has begrudgingly changed definitions every time a group they offend says "um hey why do you consider trans women to be a different gender than women?" or "why do you feel the need to specify that your sexuality includes attraction to nonbinary people as if other sexualities don't?"

at this point bi and pan mean the same thing bc as pansexuals have begrudgingly cut off all the bigoted parts of their definition the only part that remains is the "attracted to all genders" part which is literally just another way of saying "attracted to same and different genders". y'all just took the long transphobic way and decided to throw bisexuals under the bus while you were at it. now the mainstream assumption is that pansexuality is a more inclusive version of bisexuality or that bisexual is an outdated term.

i see the "well i'm just more comfortable with pan" excuse a lot. but why? why are you (general) uncomfortable with bisexuality? you already admitted that pan is the same as bi so why are you more comfortable calling yourself one but not the other? why are you more comfortable aligning yourself with a sexuality that has transphobic and biphobic roots instead of just embracing a label that has meant attraction to all genders for over a century and has such a rich history? and finally, why do you consider someone calling out pansexuality's problematic rhetoric to be bigotry?

[helsex-moved]

Posted this as a thread on twitter because I got fed up with them so might as well put it here.

Why mspec lesbian hate/discourse is just the same old bigotry and terf-like exclusionary mentality in a new font:

Where the problem starts is making hard and fast 'rules' about any label, sexuality or gender. Like, lesbians can only be non-men attracted to non-men, or lesbians can only be attracted to someone feminine identifying.

That there's a 'point' to any sort of definition like that. Labels are not boxes not for the wider populace to smash you into, they're for you and only you.

We contain multitudes, humans are vastly complex, our feelings and identities cannot be explained by one label with one fixed definition and they shouldn't have to be. Reducing a label to a simple meaning for your own convenient understanding is foolishness. You don't have to understand the intricacies of everyone's identities, you just need to respect it.

But engaging with that argument on the terms that there are set limits of labels, this ignores HUNDREDS of years of queer history. People have been using 'conflicting labels' for centuries. If we say it can only be 'non-men' that asks us to define ourselves what qualifies as a 'non-man' which makes us no better than the republicans trying to ask people to define what a woman is.

Gender and sexuality are different to every single person and everyone will only be able to define their own view and experience with it.

But ignoring that nuance it still disregards people's gender identity.

There ARE transmasc and transmen lesbians, lesbians who fully identify as men but also as lesbians for various reasons that are all personal and valid.

There are genderfluid and sexuality fluid people as well as multigender people who one day are gay men or lesbian women or lesbian men and gay women!! Or all of those at once !! Gender and sexuality are messy and it's so wrong to go around and police it based on your arbitrary standards.

Hell butch lesbians are right there!!!! A lot of them identify in large part with, or even solely with, masculinity NOT femininity. I myself identify at butch and am transmasc with no connection to femininity or womanhood.

Before policing what identities people can have in this way it was policing whether or not trans women are valid lesbians. Or nonbinary people. Or even just cis lesbians who use he/him or other pronouns. These arguments are still used by TERFs. Do you really want to be on the same side of thinking as a terf?

It's all rooted in bigotry and feeling entitled to label someone, not respecting the label someone makes for themself, it's a tale as old as time but now we're labeling it as progressive.

All labels made up in the end. They're just vague social constructions and definitions we use to try and explain how we feel to others but can never fully explain our entirely nor should they be expected to.

Good faith identities do not hurt you. Good faith identities do not hurt the community.

Bigots hurt the community. Infighting hurts the community. By standing against rather than with people who are more similar to you than different you are perpetuating bigotry in new flavors and wasting energy infighting while there is a genocide waiting on our doorstep. By attacking what you don't understand you aren't any better than the bigots

To bi/pan/mspec lesbians who have been subject to seeing so much hate for them from the community that's supposed to be theirs, I love you <3 happy pride.