#i used to identify as bi and while i was attracted to different genders in different ways

[focsle]

Do I still have to see people blanket defining bisexuality in a reductive and incorrect way in 2023? Do I?

[halfdeadfriedrice]

it's pride month so i'm promoting lgbtq+ learning at work! what does this mean? someone sent me a suggestion that the training we were promoting had inaccurate descriptions of bi/pan sexuality, I dipped my toe back into the discourse of how those are defined, remembered "it's the same fucking thing" and then changed nothing

[olderthannetfic]

minor drama but i got called lesbophobic and biphobic and got told that i was 'contributing to bi erasure' for calling myself a lesbian while being an afab genderfluid nb who is dating a woman. i identify as a woman about 25% of the time and am exclusively romantically attracted to women

i am just 🧍about it bc like i always thought lesbian and bi were umbrella terms

im not even sure i count as bi since im the one changing genders- technically you could call that attraction to same and different genders as myself, which would make it bi, but i only like women

i am just so confused

--

You're at least woman-adjacent. You only date women. That makes lesbian a perfectly reasonable shorthand.

I don't know if I really see either term as an umbrella exactly, but the orientation boxes were set up for the majority who have a fairly banal binary experience of gender. Should we conceptualize this as 'lesbian' being a broad term or as you needing to retrofit a system for something it wasn't quite built for? Is the box bigger than people admit, or are you just choosing the least ill-fitting box? It's an interesting philosophical discussion.

Outside of the realm of academic navel gazing, however, on a practical level, this is a silly (and cruel) thing to gatekeep. We both know that randos will think "bi" means "dates men too", making it a less useful shorthand.

The people being assholes about this are seeing identity words as Truth™ rather than communication.

[tizeline]

Happy pride month and all!

I figured now was a good time to ask, but do you have any thoughts about the sexuality of the characters in your Sep AU?

Sorry if you’ve been asked already, and the answer can definitely be no, I’m just curious :)

Happy pride!! ✨

Here's the thing about headcanons about queer identities, I personally prefer to not get too stuck on specific labels. While there are exceptions, I generally try to remain flexible if that makes sense? As in I like having multiple different interpritation about characters' identities so deciding on One Particular Label can feel limiting to me.

I mentioned it before, but I do plan on making Capril an established relationship in the AU sooner or later, so April and Casey are definitely sapphic. But more specific than that? Are they lesbian or bi or pan or whatever?? I dunno!! It's not really relevant to the story so I might as well leave that up to interpretation.

My approach to creating stories is that I'll usually only decide on specific labels if it is plot relevant, Schrödingers Identity if you will, lol, it can be anything if you don't decide on it beforehand. Again, there are exceptions, Leo is gay 100% like duh I can't interpret him any other way XD. Splinter is a Bi-Icon and I will STAND BY THAT!

Raph, Donnie and Mikey? Man who knows, canon Donnie seems to be into girls at least so it's the same in the AU, but more specific than that I dunno, I'm not planning on the story really focusing on romance (aside from a little capril because every story needs sapphics that's like the law)

Actually, you know what I find fun? World building! I honestly tend to be more interested in how queer identities are viewed and treated in a story's world as a whole as opposed to induvidual character's identities. Human society in rottmnt seems to be mostly the same as our IRL society, but what about Yōkai society!? With how diverse yōkai are I think it'd be fun if people in The Hidden City just... didn't care about who you loved or what you identified as. As a result of that, I don't think yōkai would care that much about terminology and labels, you just kinda loved whoever you loved.

It'd be honestly be kinda interesting if Donnie and April used terminology that related to queer stuff and Raph, Leo and Mikey are just really confused. Like for example, April is complaining about one of her classmates who's homophobic and the The Drax Bros are just like "Home-phobic??? They're afraid of homes??" cuz the concept of discriminating against someone based on which gender they're attracted to is completely foreign to them. Actually, Leo might be more knowledgable about human queer culture considering he's interested in human cultures in general. He calls himself gay at one point and Draxum is all like "you're happy? good for you?" and he'd just be wondering why Leo is using such an old-timey word considering Leo doesn't exactly have the most advanced vocabulary.

[bloomshroomz]

I want to talk a little bit about the use of the word "preference" in bisexual (and broader m-spec) spaces. I think that the word is used in a lot of different ways to mean a lot of different things, and sometimes it unintentionally conveys the wrong thing.

Plenty of people who identify as bisexual, or omnisexual, or polysexual, etc. are attracted to certain genders more frequently or more intensely than others. They might also be attracted to different genders in different ways.

For example, if someone is attracted to many types of women, but only very specific types of men, they're attracted to men and women differently. This difference also probably results in them finding women attractive more often than they find men attractive.

A lot of people would describe this as a "preference" for women, but as a bisexual/omnisexual person who experiences attraction in this way, I don't thinks that's necessarily the right word for this. It might be for some people, but while my attraction trends towards women, I wouldn't say that I prefer my partners be women.

Because that's all it is for me: a trend in my attraction. Not a preference. It's much easier for me to find an attractive woman than an attractive man (according to my own tastes, of course), but at the end of the day, if I find you attractive, I find you attractive, regardless of your gender.

I wouldn't prefer that the men I'm attracted be women instead, because I don't prefer women; they just tend to be more attractive to me than men are. But there are some seriously cute guys out there, and my predominant attraction to women doesn't erase that, nor does it make my attraction to men feel less important than my attraction to women. It's just less frequent.

I noticed this problem with the word "preference" after I started dating my boyfriend, when he said "I'm not what you prefer."

It made me realize that... No, I don't have a "preference" for women. I wouldn't prefer that he be a woman, and I wouldn't prefer to date a woman over him. I'm attracted to women more frequently than men, but my attraction to him is not trumped or lessened by my general trend of attraction to women. I find him so fucking attractive.

You can also have a preference which goes in a different direction than the trends of your attraction. For some time, despite my attraction trending towards women, I preferred to date men. That's where my boyfriend is currently at as well. So, clearly, there is a distinction between the trends in one's attraction and the preferences one may hold.

Are there any other bi/m-spec people who feel this way about the use of "preference" in discussions of attraction?

[themostsanebug]

HEY CHAT! gonna just offer up my opinion on sexuality discourse as someone whos main special interest is identity labels specifically of the sexuality and gender variety! aka. me rambling about how certain labels can make sense and we should all just shut the fuck up and let people do what they feel comfy with.

MAIN ONE ON THIS LIST BEING THE TERM LESBOY!!!!! this one is SO massively shat on for. people thinking it is ONLY used by men who identify as lesbian. and while yes that is the case and some do use it as such! there are other ways this label is used in a way that can "make more sense" to those that are hesitant to accept these people. for example? transmasc or butch women. genderfluid lesbians who present mostly masc or feel masc. same with agender/nonbinary/etc folk. multigender people who just so happen to also be a man in some way. POINT IS! all of these are valid even if you dont think so! at the end of the day, someone using this label isnt HURTING anyone. no one is HURT when this label is used.

same with folks who are bi-lesbians, pan-lesbians, etc. the explanation for this one? two separate forms of attraction with two different sexualities needing to be attached. for example, maybe a bi-lesbian is bisexual with their sexual attraction and lesbian with their romantic attraction. i could be far off, i do tend to just reason these out in my head, but this DOES seem to make the most sense to myself.

this may be very jumbled and hard to understand but at the end of the day all this was meant to convey is that someones gender and sexuality is THEIR business and THEIR choice to choose what theyd like to identify with! as long as they arent hurting anyone they really dont owe anyone an explanation.

[rainbowsforbeginners]

Rainbow 101: 001

Today’s topic, as voted by you: What is LGBTQIA+?

Hello, class!

Welcome to Rainbow 101!

To start us off, today I’ll explain the acronym LGBTQIA+:

It stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning, Intersex, and A-spec - And the little “plus” at the end stands for any other queer labels that don’t fit neatly into the main acronym!

You may also see it shortened to LGBTQ+, LGBT+, LGBT, as well as a few others - But, they all refer to the same community!

Now, as this is a beginner-friendly lecture, I’ll also give a brief explanation of the main “flagship” identities - Though I highly encourage you do your own research of any terms you find interesting, as I will likely not be able to cover all nuance here!

Also, if anyone has any comments, questions, corrections, or kudos, please put them in the ask box after class!

Alright, let’s get started:

Lesbian:

Someone who is a lesbian is a women who is attracted to other women - Non-binary people can also use this label if they wish! The term Lesbian is also related to the terms WLW and Sapphic - Though I recommend finding sources who are more well-versed in those labels to understand the nuances/differences!

Gay:

The “proper” definition of gay is similar to lesbian, being a man who is attracted to other men - And non-binary folk can use this one, too! - However, you will also find many people use “gay” as a broad blanket term similar to “queer,” so context is useful here! Gay is also sometimes called MLM (men-loving-men, not multi-level-marketing :) )

Bisexual/Biromantic:

Someone who is bisexual/biromantic is attracted to multiple genders - Commonly interpreted as simply “likes both men and women.” But, as with many of these labels, there can be nuance that is different for every person; Such as having attraction for multiple, but preferring one over another. You’ll often see Bisexual/Biromantic shortened to Bi!

Transgender:

Someone who is transgender doesn’t fully identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. For example, someone who was born as a girl named Jane and later transitions to a man named John. (Something to note here: While many transgender people do fully identify with the “opposite” gender, and undergo various visual/biological transformations (ha!), there are many who don’t do either! Some people only change their pronouns, and some may not change anything!) Non-binary people are also under this umbrella term - though not everyone identifies with the label! You’ll often see Transgender shortened to Trans!

Queer/Questioning:

From what I’ve seen, “Queer” is a pretty broad label, often used as a collective term for all LGBTQIA+ people - But, I’ve also seen some people use it as a catch-all personal miscellaneous label, when they don’t care to explain or define the details! “Questioning” is pretty simple - It just means the person is figuring out some aspect of their identity, but hasn’t quite gotten there yet!

Intersex:

This one I don’t know as much about as I could, but my understanding is that an intersex person falls between or outside of the biological sex binary - And it can be as drastically obvious as physical organ differences, or more often, as subtle as having unusual chromosomes!

A-spec:

A-spec, or the A-spectrum, is a wide category for those who experience little, no, and/or specifically-parametrized attraction! Aromantic (or Aro, little-to-no romantic attraction) and Asexual (or Ace, little-to-no sexual attraction) are the more popular, “flagship” labels, but the A spectrum also includes Aplatonic, Agender, Afamilial, Asensual, and probably a few others I don’t know of! To oversimplify for the sake of comedy, the A-spec is for those of us who look at everyone else and go, “No thanks!” with varying degrees of intensity.

Plus (+):

And the + is for everyone else who might not fit within the above!

…And there you have it - That was a lot, and I’m glad you stuck around to the end!

I want to note here that many of these labels have more sub-labels nested under them, and/or have more nuance than we covered today - So, if any of you have questions or clarifications, or have a correction to make, please feel free to drop a note in my ask box!

Also, any ideas for future topics to cover would be much appreciated!

Batteries and Bars,

Neon

[verdemoun]

timewarp au going to pride:

jake adler has bi wife energy set to his ringtone. king of bead bracelets. he made them himself and hands them out with dangerous enthusiasm. will see somehow hitting on sadie (who is very thank you cutie but i'm married) and be like hello friend i also think my wife is beautiful stunning perfect human being have a bracelet. sadie is also dressed like a cliche tucked in plaid shirt cuffed jeans doc martens finger guns sweeping her husband off his feet and kissing him

bill has the tiniest pride flag but absolutely glared and intimidated his way to the front of the barriers and forgets to blink while watching the march. malfunctions when men actually flirt with him and has to sit down like his self-esteem is so low pls help him. gets called handsome and has to hold a water bottle to his head because world is spinning, does not know how to respond.

kieran and javier are taking turns annoying people with 'whats in your pants' memes intentionally put the weirdest things in their pockets like someone asks their gender and 'oh look three buttons a can of tuna and an opened pack of gum. who wants gum?' labels are too overwhelming they both identify as queer there is nothing cishet about either of them. crying over margaritas together why are we single when every single person in the world is so hot?

arthur and charles keep going on stranger missions to help find lost pins, escorting the youth to the <18 events and handing out water bottles. arthur does struggle with getting mistaken for a right-wing protestor because big scowl-y muscle tall white man with old timey cowboy hat and needs charles to rescue him from getting yelled at because he is too polite to interrupt people.

hosea and bessie were meant to be supervising dutch and bessie had way too much fun explaining this is my husband and my husband's boyfriend. hosea fumbling trying to explain he's not my boyfriend i love my wife. meanwhile dutch escapes and bessie and hosea both just sit down like oh no. this is. bad.

dutch is attracted to the sound of angry shouting like a moth to flame. micah (who does support the gays because his grand-nephew is gay (kai is not gay but is glad the misunderstanding has lead to micah being a better person)), isaac, jack and dutch all put aside their differences for one day and will get arrested for assault and 'infringing on the right to protest' while physically fighting bigots.

annabelle and susan are wearing their 'dutch van der linde made us lesbians' shirts while also holding 'we exist' banners and people think they assume they're referring to vintage lesbians but of course they mean lesbians throughout history including 19th century and long before they have always existed and always will go sapphos

abigail is going out of her way to break hearts she is calling people gorgeous and kissing their cheeks before running off like a manic pixie dream girl to continue the mission to fight whoever it was that gave john their number. john does not understand phone numbers he's being given scraps of paper with numbers on them wondering if it's some kind of encrypted treasure map. also he's genuinely afraid of furries. hiding behind his wife what the fuck are those.

[joy-crimes]

A while ago I came out as being bisexual, & while it does feel amazing and liberating can I still be attracted to nb people? I the definition of bisexuality is to be attracted to men & women only & while I technically fit into pansexuality I don't necessarily identify as it. The point is can I still be bisexual if what I am contradicts the definition? I figured somebody like you could help me.

Aww hey hey that's okay <3

I'll shed some light onto my thought process, as I'm a firm believer that bisexuality does NOT exclude nonbinary people.

So, everyone has their own way of defining their sexuality. It just so happens that bisexuality and pansexuality have a lot of overlap, but the distinction is still important to people, and that's okay

Personally I identify as bi/pan because the distinction between the two is largely negligible to me. I believe that the overlap on the venn diagram between the two is where my sexuality falls. I tend to just say I'm bisexual cuz like. it tends to be the aspect of my identity that gets erased the most, but it's important enough to me to where I like to assert it as much as I can to deny that erasure.

Some definitions i've heard for inclusivity's sake are as follows (but whether or not you want to follow these definitions is flexible to your own comfort level):

Bisexuality CAN be defined as attraction to both YOUR gender, and genders that differ from your own (hence the "bi" meaning 2). This is a little less rigid than saying that bisexuality is strictly an attraction to MEN and WOMEN, so some people tend to prefer it.

Pansexuality CAN be referred to as loving anyone REGARDLESS of gender, where gender doesn't actually come into consideration at all. This definition is good, but also, people who identify as bisexual COULD have largely the same thought process.

Do these sound similar?? yes! It's because they ARE similar, and they also aren't rigid definitions that everyone has to follow. The overlap is inherent for a very specific reason: comfort.

This is something that usually gets overlooked when the public consciousness talks about labels. There's a lot of arguments about specific definitions, and which labels are good or bad, which ones are inclusive, and which ones aren't, but I think these arguments leave out the central reason people use labels in the first place: Self Definition.

Labels, as they are, in reference to the LGBT community, are often used as a way to categorize and exclude other people (if you are a loser who's mean to people for identifying a certain way), but that is not their primary function. The reason we use labels (and this is true for everyone in the community), is because it helps us put words to our subjective experiences in a way that brings us the most comfort. Categorizing others is a waste of time, because the more people you meet throughout your life, the more you realize that peoples' ideas of gender and sexuality are all so varied and vast, much like the colors on a rainbow, that fitting them all into neat little boxes doesn't really work. There's no use trying to say that some labels are good and some labels are bad, because at the end of the day, the person you are observing DOES NOT identify as YOUR PERSONAL dictionary definition of their label. Rather, they have their own subjective experience, and they've chosen their own labels to define them (as rigidly or as loosely as they may).

Self-identifying is what it's always been: an individual's subjective reality put to words that make them comfortable.

It doesn't have to be any more specific than that <3

[whycaninotfindausername]

Rambling rant/vent about queer impostor syndrome and the difficulties of discovering your queerness later in life, skip if it's potentially triggering or you're just not interested

So I'm 28 and AMAB and been living as "cishet" pretty much my whole life. I've been passing as straight my entire life because in school everyone using "gay" or a slur as their default insult basically made me just not want to engage with queerness at all so I kind of shoved those feelings away, and then for most of my adult life I have been in a relationship a woman. I admitted to myself that I was bi a couple years ago, but I never really explored that part of my sexuality outside of private thoughts and fantasies.

Now, I'm recently single and wanting to experiment and explore my sexuality and gender but I feel so distant from other queer people. I know that I'm attracted to more than just women, and I spend way too much time looking at egg memes and secretly trying on girls' clothes and wanting to be cute and pretty to realistically keep identifying as a cis man in the long term, but because pretty much everyone perceives me as just another cishet guy, I don't know how to actively engage with queerness. It's especially disheartening when I'm around queer people and they make jokes about me being a "token straight" or someone will reference something like drag race or something that's part of "queer culture" that I'm unfamiliar with and just say I'm too straight to get it. It just makes me feel like maybe I can't be queer because I don't fit in, and while I know that that feeling isn't based in anything rational, I still feel it.

Also seeing younger queer people so confidently assert their identities in such an open and celebratory way is bittersweet for me. It brings me so much joy to see them exploring themselves and being out and open, but at the same time, I feel envious that I haven't been able to do the same yet. I know it's never too late to come out and everything, but I wish I would have been able to do it at a younger age, when it feels more comfortable to be experimenting and trying new things. When I was at university, I experimented a lot, I hung out with different groups of people, I explored new interests, learned new ways of thinking, and all this sort of stuff, but now everything in my life is so stable that the thought of going back to that experimental and developmental stage in my life is kind of scary.

I haven't really seen/heard people voice feelings like this much before, so idk if this is going to resonate with anyone at all (especially on what is probably one of the queerest spaces on the internet) but I just wanted to get these feelings out somewhere and I figured this was probably the best place I have to do it

[bilesproblems]

honestly the term mspec lesbian term is super new to me and i did read some of your posts which do make sense but at the same time not.. its like teaching me 1+2= -3 . however, even if i see someone using the terms bi lesbian or anything of the sort i really wont mind. I understand that we as a community, especially since im a lesbian and we fought to give you guys these rights, should stay together because in the end homophobes want us all deas and they wont cherry pick the ones who hate their own community.

ok coming back to my original idea, if they feel attractions to the sexes but only willingly date women or fem alligned etc etc why wont they just say lesbian? or sapphic (depending on their own gender)?

again, no offense! sorry if this is a constant question, or if i skipped over something that answered this (⁠*⁠´⁠ω⁠｀⁠*⁠) have a great day!

The reasons people identify with mspec lesbian instead of just lesbian if they feel attraction to all but only want to be with women is because they are both at the same time, and by using both labels they can explain their identity fully. That attraction might still be significant to their life, or they might just want to highlight that their experience as a lesbian may differ from someone else's experience as a lesbian because of their mspec attraction.

As for why not use sapphic, a lot of us also use sapphic, but "sapphic" is a super broad term that only denotes wlw and adjacent, while "mspec lesbian" can more specifically articulate the experience that someone has.

Hope that makes sense, thank you so much for looking around to educate yourself and for asking in good faith, and thank you for expressing your support even without understanding fully. You have a nice day too!

[nieves-de-sugui]

A Gay For You trope conversation

This is a thought that has come to me after reading the manga of Tokyo in April is...

First, I gotta say the show was a very good adaptation of the manga imo. There are some details that are different but overall the spirit of the story is the same, and I praise the makers of the show for it. Great job, folks 😎👍

Secondly, onto the topic of this post. I am definetly not the first to talk about this, @heretherebedork talks about it in this post. And @emotionallychargedtowel also touched upon this on another post. But I want use this post to gather both thoughts and expand on that conversation.

As I was reading the scene with Kazuma and Ryunosuke facing each other, a thought came to me. The manga really does go more into the Gay For You trope than the show does. When Kazuma says that he doesn't care about gender, that he's only interested in Ren, in the show there is still some possibility left for Kazuma to identify as some type of queer, however it goes a little differently in the manga.

read from right to left, from scanbean's scanlations

Both in the manga and the show Kazuma rejects any label and it could be said that he basically describes himself as "Ren-sexual". However, while in the show it's left more ambiguous (since being bi could still be a possibility) in the manga he rejects both the gay and bi labels. He does not confirm being heterosexual either, so it doesn't fall a 100% into the gay for you trope.

The Gay For You trope (for those who might not know it) is basically a straight main character being in a homosexual relationship while maintaining their heterosexuality. While this has been a trope widely used in Japan, it is true that recently it has been more of a "only attracted to you". So while they do not identify with any queer label they do not declare their heterosexuality as sternly as before. Even though this in a gay relationship but still straight most likely stems from homophobia, this recent shift in Japanese BL makes for an interesting conversation.

In the posts I mentioned above Heretherebedork describes this as some kind of demisexuality. And Emotionally Charged Towel ponders upon if this might be related to the early Shonen Ai idea of "pure" love.

I feel like Japan has a tendency to explore situations "out of the norm/societal expectations" without diving into the specifics. Scratching the surface of themes that step away from heteronormativity while not really diving deep into it either. There's a duality of characters that might or might not use western labels to understand themselves or their feelings. We can see this in how Koisenu futari talked about asexuality (very specifically) VS how Me, My Husband And My Husband's Boyfriend talked about polyamory (quite ambiguosly).

Personally, I wonder if there's something there to be said about how we understand romance and sexuality. Can sexuality and romance be separated succesfully without erasing the importance of one another? Are these characters that do not define themselves according to sexuality constructive in some way?

In the case of Tokyo is April is... Kazuma's mom refer to Kazuma and Ren's love as exceptional ("I have never experienced a love like that"). Kazuma's character in the show has never really considered his sexual tendencies. As highschoolers Ren asks Kazuma is he would want to have a girlfriend and have sex with her, to which Kazuma gives what would be "the expected answer" according to society. I personally believe that Kazuma's train of thought might have been something like: "Boys are supposed to like girls, and it is expected that they want to have sex with them, so probably yeah I would want to have sex with my potential girlfriend in the future". To me he does not seem to have made any kind of introspection of his own feelings or desires, as he has never thought of it he gives the probably expected answer. So who knows? He might not be straight, but he does not seem to have really given it any thought.

I like the idea of it being a sort of demisexuality.

It is intersting to consider if sexuality and romantic love can be explored separatedly. Could the use of this kind of ambiguity open the door to an new interpretation of romance? Much in the way of the yaoi concept of "pure love"?

This are the questions that have popped into my brain regarding the possibilities of the tropes. I hope it makes for an introduction or starting point to a more developed conversation of the topic.

I hope some of this stirs up thoughts on those that know a lot more than me about these topics, and are so much better at explaining them. I'd love to read whatever @bengiyo @waitmyturtles @wen-kexing-apologist @emotionallychargedtowel @heretherebedork and anyone else that sees this might have to say about it :) ...if there's anything to say at all

[peridotglimmer]

I had a somewhat awkward but also quite wholesome conversation about sexuality with my grandmother last night.

(Slightest content warning for some archaic views on sex on a first date?)

For context, since leaving an abusive relationship nearly 5 months ago, I've been living with my 86-year-old grandfather ("Opa") and 87-year-old grandmother ("Oma"). I'm a woman, and my ex is female as well. I identified as a lesbian when I got sucked into that relationship 12 years ago. I no longer identify as such.

(I mainly use "queer", but since this post will get into specifics: I feel most comfortable calling myself 'demi' now, with an aesthetic preference for femme-presenting people.)

Last night, Opa had already gone to bed. I was setting the table for breakfast for the next morning while Oma was doing a jigsaw puzzle. Now, Oma is pretty much the Dutch version of a WASP. She attends church religiously, even wanted to study theology as a teen (she wasn't allowed to due to her gender, and became an educational needs teacher). However, two out of two of her grandchildren are queer, and she's fully accepting of that.

I was telling a story of how I had once been accused of dressing to seduce men when I was in my early twenties, and joked: "They really had the wrong woman in mind for that," since, as far as Oma knows, I'm a lesbian.

She replied: "Hm, back then, but how about now?"

I paused. I hadn't planned on ever telling her I was demi. Not because she couldn't know, but because she doesn't exactly understand the intricacies of all the different queer identities. She's intelligent, and eager to learn, but she's also 87. (She still accidentally makes the occasional tone-deaf comment about my trans brother-in-law. Not with malicious intent, but just because she didn't grow up with these terms.)

I also didn't want to lie to her.

So I answered: "Well...I think I'm attracted to men and women these days...but I don't experience attraction unless I have a strong friendship with someone first."

Oma: "Well, that's just healthy. So many people these days just jump into bed with anyone."

Me: "That's not exactly what I--"

Oma: "But I already thought you'd expanded to more than just women. That's good. More options."

Me: "It's not just the case of not wanting to sleep with someone immediately -- which, truthfully, I couldn't ever do -- but I just don't feel that...lust."

Oma: "So you're careful. That's good. When I was a teenager you couldn't do anything before marriage. And there was no birth control so we didn't -- you were too terrified you'd fall pregnant -- but I'm not sure that was good. If you weren't compatible physically you didn't find out until you were already married. But waiting a little while is good. Take your time. If someone doesn't want to go at your pace, they're not worthy of you."

Me: "I-- that's really lovely advice, thank you."

Oma: "Of course. I love you. And...I'm always right." *laughs* (Her joking catchphrase.)

I think in the end she thinks I'm just a bi girl with pious morals when it comes to sex, but I think that's the closest we're going to get to her actually understanding it completely. And it's close enough for me.

Heck, my brother (he/him) is agender, and when asked about that, these days she answers "he's a human".

Close enough.

At 87, nearly 88, deo volente, I think that's more than all I could ask for from her.

[a-frog-in-a-bog]

We were mutuals for a while and I did really like your blog, but I really can’t tolerate panphobia. I saw a post you reblogged about phrases (that aren’t really used in the pan community anymore because of new understandings of the gender spectrum and trans people) and how they’re inherently biphobic.

Posts like that, stereotypes like that are harmful and make me scared to identify as pan within the lgbtq+ community and I will often just say I’m queer and call it a day. Bi/pan people have more commonalities than they do differences. To me they’re inherently interchangeable and the only difference is what word you feel comfortable identifying as.

Panphobia from people within the community mirrors biphobia in and outside of the community. We experience the same injustices you do, it’s just a different term. I don’t tolerate biphobia, panphobia, aphobia, or any other kind of intercommunity hatred. I’m rooting for every sub-community that are overlooked or villainized. So I wish you and yours the best, but I cannot follow you when you’re reblogging harmful posts like that.

sorry for not answering sooner, for some reason tumblr decided not to show me your ask until today. anyway pansexuality is inherently biphobic and transphobic, the modern usage was literally coined by ppl who thought they were special for being attracted to all genders, even trans ppl, unlike bisexuals. of course bi and pan have more similarities than differences. they're the same fucking thing. the only difference is that bisexuality has always meant "experiences both same and different gender attraction" whereas pansexuality has begrudgingly changed definitions every time a group they offend says "um hey why do you consider trans women to be a different gender than women?" or "why do you feel the need to specify that your sexuality includes attraction to nonbinary people as if other sexualities don't?"

at this point bi and pan mean the same thing bc as pansexuals have begrudgingly cut off all the bigoted parts of their definition the only part that remains is the "attracted to all genders" part which is literally just another way of saying "attracted to same and different genders". y'all just took the long transphobic way and decided to throw bisexuals under the bus while you were at it. now the mainstream assumption is that pansexuality is a more inclusive version of bisexuality or that bisexual is an outdated term.

i see the "well i'm just more comfortable with pan" excuse a lot. but why? why are you (general) uncomfortable with bisexuality? you already admitted that pan is the same as bi so why are you more comfortable calling yourself one but not the other? why are you more comfortable aligning yourself with a sexuality that has transphobic and biphobic roots instead of just embracing a label that has meant attraction to all genders for over a century and has such a rich history? and finally, why do you consider someone calling out pansexuality's problematic rhetoric to be bigotry?

[bloomshroomz]

I redesigned the polysexual flag.

I would love it if this got shared around!

Use it in art! Use it in merch! Use it on your pronouns.page! It's public domain! No credit needed!

Reasons for the redesign, flag meanings, additional flags, templates, silly stuff, and emojis below the cut.

As a polysexual person, I have mixed feelings about the original polysexual flag. The simplicity of the flag is good; it has three stripes and three colors. I also like the color choices in concept: pink for attraction to women, green for attraction to enbies, and blue for attraction to men. The contrast between the stripes is pretty good too, though the contrast between green and blue could use some improvement.

However, the hot pink clashes with the green, which can be displeasing to the eye, or even painful. This clashing isn't as bad on physical merch most of the time. I have some pins and bracelets where it looks just fine. But I think that it's important for the flag to be accessible online too, especially since many polysexual people can't show pride outside of online spaces.

There's also a problem with its similarity to the bisexual and pansexual flags. I know that this was done on purpose to show the identities being related, and I think that this is sorta fine. But...

It can be misleading, as I find that polysexuality is often fundamentally very different from the other "big four" multi-spec orientations, i.e. bi, pan, and omni. Polysexual people are not attracted to all genders, while bisexual people often are, and pansexual/omnisexual people always are. The lack of separation between the polysexual stripes implies that we're attracted to all genders as well, when we aren't.

It also makes it harder for us to stand out on our own. Polysexuality rarely gets its own spotlight independent from other identities. Most often, we just get a passing mention in a post about the broader multi-spec community, or get our flag shown in a post alongside several other flags, if we even get that at all. Our flag being so indistinct only furthers this invisibility.

Polysexuality, as a result, doesn't really get to be its own thing. We're just another tag, another flag, another passing mention of validity to tack onto a post that isn't really about us. This can feel really isolating, especially as many of us don't even strongly relate to the other identities that we're often grouped with.

I don't identify as bisexual, not even as an umbrella term, because I don't relate to common bisexual experiences. I am not attracted to binary men, and I'm not attracted to all genders. But "polysexual representation" is almost exclusively about common bisexual experiences, and it isn't ply-focused. The flag adds insult to injury.

So, I wanted to try to redesign the flag.

I like the colors that are already associated with polysexuality: pink, green, and blue. I want to keep these colors, and I'm also keeping their original meanings. The ply pride colors aren't changing if I have anything to say about it! As obscure as polysexuality is, this color combination is very recognizable and well established in our community, and if applied well, they look really nice together.

However, I've also added two thin white stripes to the flag. These stripes serve three purposes:

1. Visual appeal.

The white stripes prevent clashing between the pink and green, and also add some more contrast between the green and blue.

2. Separation between stripes.

The white stripes allow the colorful stripes to exist separately, since polysexual people are not attracted to all genders. For example, I am represented by pink and green, but not by blue, because I am not attracted to binary men. Another polysexual person might be represented only by green and blue, only by green, etc.

3. Distinction from other flags.

The white stripes create distinction from other m-spec flags. This flag distinction can represent the disconnect from m-spec spaces that some polysexuals experience, since m-spec spaces tend to revolve around attraction towards all genders, which is inapplicable to polysexual people unless varioriented or fluid. M-spec spaces also often revolve around attraction towards at least both binary genders, and many polysexual people, including myself, lack attraction towards at least one binary gender.

This flag distinction also calls attention to polysexuality as its own identity, which does not always need to be dependent on other terms, and can shine on its own. We are not just a tag, or just a flag, or just a label to put in posts that aren't about us. We are a community! We are individuals! We are people! We are experiences!

The flag is still somewhat similar to other m-spec flags in its color choices, so the solidarity with our m-spec siblings is still there! But now we get to have something that feels more like it's for us.

I hope that the difference in stripe size makes the flag more accessible to colorblind people as well, because I don't see many flags with a 2:1:2:1:2 stripe ratio, whereas there are a lot of flags with three evenly sized horizontal stripes.

This flag can be used by all ply people! Whether polysexual, polyromantic, polysensual, polyalterous, varioriented, fluid, questioning, etc... This is for all of us!

Additional flags, templates, silly stuff, and emojis:

[helsex-moved]

Posted this as a thread on twitter because I got fed up with them so might as well put it here.

Why mspec lesbian hate/discourse is just the same old bigotry and terf-like exclusionary mentality in a new font:

Where the problem starts is making hard and fast 'rules' about any label, sexuality or gender. Like, lesbians can only be non-men attracted to non-men, or lesbians can only be attracted to someone feminine identifying.

That there's a 'point' to any sort of definition like that. Labels are not boxes not for the wider populace to smash you into, they're for you and only you.

We contain multitudes, humans are vastly complex, our feelings and identities cannot be explained by one label with one fixed definition and they shouldn't have to be. Reducing a label to a simple meaning for your own convenient understanding is foolishness. You don't have to understand the intricacies of everyone's identities, you just need to respect it.

But engaging with that argument on the terms that there are set limits of labels, this ignores HUNDREDS of years of queer history. People have been using 'conflicting labels' for centuries. If we say it can only be 'non-men' that asks us to define ourselves what qualifies as a 'non-man' which makes us no better than the republicans trying to ask people to define what a woman is.

Gender and sexuality are different to every single person and everyone will only be able to define their own view and experience with it.

But ignoring that nuance it still disregards people's gender identity.

There ARE transmasc and transmen lesbians, lesbians who fully identify as men but also as lesbians for various reasons that are all personal and valid.

There are genderfluid and sexuality fluid people as well as multigender people who one day are gay men or lesbian women or lesbian men and gay women!! Or all of those at once !! Gender and sexuality are messy and it's so wrong to go around and police it based on your arbitrary standards.

Hell butch lesbians are right there!!!! A lot of them identify in large part with, or even solely with, masculinity NOT femininity. I myself identify at butch and am transmasc with no connection to femininity or womanhood.

Before policing what identities people can have in this way it was policing whether or not trans women are valid lesbians. Or nonbinary people. Or even just cis lesbians who use he/him or other pronouns. These arguments are still used by TERFs. Do you really want to be on the same side of thinking as a terf?

It's all rooted in bigotry and feeling entitled to label someone, not respecting the label someone makes for themself, it's a tale as old as time but now we're labeling it as progressive.

All labels made up in the end. They're just vague social constructions and definitions we use to try and explain how we feel to others but can never fully explain our entirely nor should they be expected to.

Good faith identities do not hurt you. Good faith identities do not hurt the community.

Bigots hurt the community. Infighting hurts the community. By standing against rather than with people who are more similar to you than different you are perpetuating bigotry in new flavors and wasting energy infighting while there is a genocide waiting on our doorstep. By attacking what you don't understand you aren't any better than the bigots

To bi/pan/mspec lesbians who have been subject to seeing so much hate for them from the community that's supposed to be theirs, I love you <3 happy pride.