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#i think we all know in our hearts
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wavesoutbeingtossed · 2 months
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I know you don't like discussing the muses but i love your takes and perspectives and i had to ask you about this. after listening to ttpd, did you have the impression that she really loved matty more than any of her exes/previous relationships?. And listening to the whole album as a whole would you call it the ''matty album'' or do you think there are more prominent themes in there than their period together?. (hope this doesn't bother you, feel free to delete if you don't feel like answering it)
hey anon! You're right, I don't really like to get into the muses as I don't really think there's anything to add to the conversation at this point, and ultimately I don't think it matters.
That being said, and with the caveat that I am not Taylor and I do not know Taylor so I cannot speak to her thoughts and can only make relatively educated guesses based on being an avid consumer of her work and a student of the human condition (lol), no I do not think Taylor loved Matty more than anyone else. I think there was maybe a brief period in the thick of things where she *thought* she did because she was not thinking clearly and was in full-on denial, but to me the message that is loud and clear in the album (and more or less explicitly stated in the epilogue) is that it was not any kind of real love affair. It was certainly infatuation and lust and the promise of something more, and there may have been some love as well, but he was in no way the love of her life by any measure.
I would call it a "Matty album" insofar as they're about events in which he was present, sure. But I feel it much more as a Taylor album, if that makes sense, even though I know that's a cop out because every album is to a degree. I can't explain it well, but I don't see TTPD as a Matty (or Joe) album in the way that I would maybe say Red is a "Jake" album or 1989 may be a "Harry" album or even Lover being a "Joe" album whatever, because even if they don't figure in all the songs, that kind of heartbreak permeates so much of the material.
The thing about TTPD and the Matty situation is that the Matty situation is really a Joe situation (which in some ways is actually partially a Jake situation). I always say I hate treating Taylor like a character so I hate speaking about her and her work in this way, but you don't get the Matty situation without the Joe situation precipitating it. It's @taylortruther's now-infamous donut vs. hole analogy. The reason Taylor makes the choices she does with Matty is directly tied to what happened with Joe that made her feel she needed to. Which is not to say Taylor isn't responsible for her own actions or doesn't have agency in her own life, but I mean it in that the situation in which she found herself with Joe, and the pain it caused, is what made the alternative so comforting and perhaps even necessary in her mind. It's why it makes it so hard to "paternity test" the album, because the stories are inherently intertwined and you don't get the former without the latter.
The major "theme" of the album to me is the loss of a very specific, very personal dream, and the way in which she lost it, and the way in which grieving that loss drove her to make the choices she did. We're all talking very delicately about it because it's a sensitive topic, but it's late on Friday and few people are going to see this, so I'm going to say it: it's the give you my wild, give you a child of it all. The yearning she expresses both overtly and sub-textually for having a family in the album is palpable in a very iykyk kind of way, and it's the realization that those plans are not going to come to fruition in the way she had once imagined that drives a lot of the pain she experiences, and makes her jump at the chance to find that again with someone else.
I started a draft post about the theme of womanhood and motherhood on TTPD three months ago that I never finished because I ran out of time and ran out of steam, but it was the most striking thing to me on the album, not because I didn't know that she wanted those things because that's been obvious for years (definitely since Lover, and again, peace put it all on the table), but because the vulnerability she expressed about it on the album is incredibly moving, and it's so generous of her to trust listeners with those feelings and experiences.
Again, it's the thirtysomething of it all.
She is in relationship A which she at one point believes is forever, one which she at one point believes is going to lead to marriage and children. She is so committed to that dream that she either ignores or tries to fix serious issues that may otherwise lead others to think the two people in the relationship are incompatible, both because she loves the person deeply and because she feels that this is meant to be the way she achieves that dream. She gives it her everything, and it still dies a slow, painful, onerous death, and she feels like it may take her along with it. The dream of getting married and presumably having a family gets taken off the table: how we don't know and will likely never know because that is private between the parties involved. All that matters in the context of the album is that those plans never come to fruition and never would.
Then you have relationship B, an old flame who knows just enough buttons to push both to trigger and to flatter. A person who she presumably trusts with very sensitive, personal information as her life slowly crumbles, and this person is telling her all the things she wants to hear because he knows about what is happening in relationship A because she's told him. Person in relationship B doesn't get an "in" with her and sell her this dream unless what happens in relationship A precedes it. It's not a grand love affair for the ages, it's not a mutual decision on building their own dream together. It's Person B learning about what is happening with Person A and saying "I can do that!" even if he can't or doesn't. The dream he sells her is a rental car; it's not his own, he's just borrowing it from someone else and selling it back to her.
And the reason she falls for it is because it is what she aches for the most in her personal life, and she is grappling with it disintegrating, so she (unfortunately for her) falls for the easy way out, and in turn sells herself a story about how this must be fated, and this must be meant to be, because this person wants all the same things she does and she didn't even have to bargain for it! Well, yes, because she fed him the dream in the first place. (Like a mark falling for a sleeper cell spy.) It's too good to be true because it isn't true. IMO Person B doesn't come running out of the gate with the marriage/baby/dream life promises unless he knows that is what she most desires. But what's left unsaid out of all of it is that: those dreams were her dreams because they were her dreams with Person A. It was a whole life they had together, and a whole life they had planned for in some fashion, and a whole life that has to be dismantled in the aftermath.
So all this to say, yes, on the surface, Matty is a "main character" on the album, but truly he's a side character to Taylor as the narrator and person experiencing it and Joe as the ghost bit-player-who-haunts-every-scene. (Again, I hate referring to real people as characters, it gives me the absolute ick, but in this case it's the only way to answer the question.) I jokingly call it the Matty album for shorthand or when I want to say something out of pocket, but really, it's a disservice to the album to say that because it's not a muse album as in it's about the romance (like, say, Red often is), it's about a soul-crushing heartbreak that goes beyond it. The romance is the symptom, not the cause.
The loss of youth is tied in with all this: she's not 22 anymore. She isn't even 32 anymore. She had a very specific idea of what her life was going to look like at this point and had planned for that life, and it goes up in smoke. But again, to bring the womanhood into it all: there is, unfortunately, a deadline for these things. You're with someone for over half a decade you think is going to be your life partner and father of your children and and then he's not. You spent half a decade building this relationship for it to crumble, but now you're in your mid-30s and you don't necessarily have another half-decade to build that trust and faith in someone else before being ready to start a family. And maybe you're scared that anyone else who may become your partner will need that much time to build that trust and faith, because that's kind of all you've ever know in relationships. But lo and behold, someone comes into your life you once had feelings for and maybe now do again and is offering you everything you want and thought you'd have by this point in your life right now. It feels like an elixir that as we find out is actually poison.
That youth is not just the chance for motherhood, but it's also the hopes and idealism and belief in the future that often gradually erodes as we age. But for Taylor as well, it's also tied into the trauma of what she went through particularly in 2016, which kicks off a lot of things on the album as well (her retreat, her relationship with Joe, the pivoting in her career, etc.). That event caused a pretty clear before/after in her life (like a few other events, I suspect), and another major theme in the album is her finally grappling with the full weight of that. They're all different branches of the same tree of the story of TTPD and her life.
I could talk about this stuff forever, but I'm going to stop here because it's long enough and I should save stuff for one of the dozens of drafts I have half-baked lol. But this is just something I needed to get off my chest perhaps.
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I FORGOT TO THROW OUT AFTER THE EPISODE RELEASED NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
#hand jumper#webtoon#sayeon lee#heron#ig??? BRUH..................#these fireworks are going to SET ME ON FIRE!!!!#but that's alr i guess!!!!!!!!!#because charcoal grilled prawn literally solves all my problems#before thinking about killing people i need everyone to sit down and think of their favourite food#and manifest the version of them that has it!!!!!!!!#maybe then all compulsions and intrusions of the mind can just go away#what if we all just pictured better versions of ourselves and just did it!!!#if we all stretched out our hands and tried we can at least live in the world knowing we did try!!#and it's better than not trying!!!!! AND BEING USELESS PIECES OF ROTTING GARBAGE!!!!!!#idk i've had a shit three years man i don't think i can take this any longer#IGNORE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#AND INSTEAD NOW LET'S THINK OF THE GOODIES YOU'RE GONNA GET IN TWO WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#or now if you offer up your wallet to OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR sleepacross#and for the SMALL price of 5USD that's right 5USD!!!! this is to the people with credit/debit cards ofc#YOU CAN ACCESS THE GOATACROSS QNA BECAUSE IT IS PEAK!!!!!!#but just because the juninators[on here in case they aren't in the server] need to hear this so we can all sing happy birthday to her#INSTEAD OF MISSING IT FOR TWO YEARS#AND HAVING A WHOLE WINTER/CHRISTMAS COMPETITION IN DISCORD WITH MEMES AND ALL WITHOUT THIS CRUCIAL INFORMATION!!!!!!!#I THINK BECAUSE I KEEP THESE IN TAGS IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT HER BIRTHDAY IS DEC 24TH AND WE SHOULD ALL SAY HAPPY LATE/HAPPY EARLY BIRTHDAY#TO OUR BELOVED QUEEN JUNI CHANG#BECAUSE NOW I JUST SHAFTED A 40K WIP I NEVER FINISHED FOR LAST YEAR'S WINTER SEASON FOR THE CHRISTMAS EPISODE OF 2024 IN THE RECYCLE BIN!!#BUT NOW WE CAN GIVE HER QUINTICE THE AMOUNT OF GIFTS THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!! SO LET'S DO THAT INSTEAD!!!!#ONE FOR HER BIRTHDAY!!!! ONE FOR CHRISLER!!! ONE FOR CIVIL SERVICE APPRECIATION DAY!!!!!#ANOTHER FOR BEING PEAK MENTOR!!!!! AND ANOTHER ONE FOR BEING GOD'S SILLIEST SOLDIER!!!![in our hearts!!]#APOLOGIES AS ALWAYS IF YOU MADE IT THIS FAR HERE!!!! AND A GOOD EVENING TO YOU ALL!!!!
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angelnumber27 · 3 months
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It’s so embarrassing and heartbreaking being in so much pain over losing someone while knowing they don’t give a fuck if you live or die. Your favorite person becoming a stranger is a special kind of hell.
#I fucking hate having bpd#while I’m at it I don’t understand the fuckin audacity some people have to say they love you and do horrible things to you#I feel so stupid#I feel so stupid for believing all the lies#but I was so in love and put him on such a pedestal that I just allowed it all.#thinking about someone constantly and grieving over them and knowing they’re perfectly fine and to them you don’t exist#I’m still in such a state of grief and I don’t understand why time hasn’t healed#it honestly feels like it’s gotten worse w time#I just torture myself but I can’t help it my brain wants me dead#it’s so painful I feel so fucking stupid#being abandoned with no closure by someone who’s your entire world#for someone they were unfaithful to you with multiple times (I don’t even know how many and dony want to know) immediately#like that was the plan all along#he took our cat hundreds of miles away and I don’t even know if he still has her or if she’s still alive and I miss her every day#I never loved someone like that and it feels like the heartbreak is actually physically killing me#i spent 1/5 of my entire life with him#I was my prettiest and had the best body at the time and I wasted it on someone who didn’t appreciate me#not wasted. it wasn’t wasted. we had some incredible times together#I’ll never be that beautiful again#and now idk what do so bc i can’t decide which is worse: being alone and isolating or loving deeply and ending up horribly hurt all over#it’s all just so upsetting.#and I feel so stupid for allowing it all#he knows more about me than anyone and he made me feel like he loved me so much sometimes and then did horrid things and it’s so fucked up#nobody read this I’m so embarrassed and horribly broken#it traumatized me so much there was so much abuse and pain idk if I’ll ever recover#I deserved it but it still hurts my heart#I was so mentally ill and sick I know it had to have been miserable to be around me#there are so many things only he understands and knows about me and I need to talk about them I j wanna b able to b there 4 each other#but that girl is so beyond insecure and controlling so. if I want to talk to who fuckin gets me I’m just fucked#why lead someone on like that for years knowing you’re going to abandon them the second it’s convenient
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it’s very important to me how my therapist (attachment trauma specialist) who works with a lot of adoptees and ffy is also obsessed with supernatural. and agrees that jack is not adopted, and it’s important to his storyline that he isn’t. it’s so frustrating trying to explain to people that adoption isn’t about ‘what’s in their hearts’ or some other bullshit, because adoption isn’t about love, it’s a legal process that tfw don’t partake in. they never try to to erase his lineage or require it for there to be love. jack keeps his last name! jack has a picture of kelly at his bedside! jack gets the freedom to meet his first family, including lucifer! he gets to make his decisions about that even after he argues with cas about it! he is not adopted y’all just don’t know how else to describe their relationship because of the romanticization of adoption in ‘found family’ media and the fact that most non-adopted people have no idea what adoption actually is.
#also it’s not y’all’s fault that u don’t i really don’t want people to take offense to this#adoptees actually often face barriers when creating stories about adoption because people cannot handle the complexity lmao#like adoption has to go one of two ways and the options are perfect happy nuclear family or evil adoptive parents#who took someone’s baby/child and the mother has been looking for them for years#there’s hardly ever any in between#and now we have an influx of what i’ve seen coined the adoption adjacent trope#which is basically jack. serves all the emotional purposes of adoption with less complications bc#the first families are either dead or abusive and the ‘adoptee’ adjacent character#is old enough to have agency over their decisions#which alleviates some of the issues with consent that adoption has#and on top of that there’s no paperwork for whatever reason#it still serves the narrative purpose for adoption without actually telling an adoptees story#*adoptee’s#which is fascinating because we rarely get scenes like meeting first families and having complex relationships with our APs or first parent#and i genuinely think the only reason we get this with jack is BECAUSE he is not adopted#jack kline#anti adoptee jack kline#tfw2.0#dadstiel#adopted jack kline#adoptee jack kline#jack and his three dads#supernatural#dean winchester#castiel#sam winchester#also if i get any hate about this pls know im an adoptee and i will be loud abt ur hate. and if ur like whiskey why would u get hate???#bless ur fucking heart u have no idea what it’s like to be an adoptee who is anti adoption industry on the internet. i have genuinely gotten#more hate for being an adoptee than i have for being gay or trans. the things people say to us unwarranted r fucking abysmal
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fisherrprince · 1 year
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the problem is I’m such a staunch believer in the slow buildup, the earnest enjoyment of meandering through terrible story decisions and weird nothing subplots to build up into a conclusion that explodes out from all that as fantastic storytelling and intrigue based on all that buildup, such that it makes it necessary to get through all that or you’re missing something essential, that I’m also a terrible person to talk to about what makes a story good. I can tell you plenty of what actually makes something tight and well-written and all that technical speak but how could anyone take my advice when I so so so love excruciatingly long unnecessarily complex fumbling and weird nonsense that spirals into, inexplicably, weird nonsense that makes you cry your lungs sore
#kipspeak#my point being everyone is too mean about post arr. sure f’lhammin did not have to be our problem but everything after that was like#meandering. Thinking. building. unnerving. they were cooking and i RESPECT their dubious food#i love homestuck and long audio dramas and dnd podcasts and indecipherable fancomics and lego ninjas and khux and im starting to love ffxiv#all incredibly long and made with passion and kinda weird and hard to get into#said with THE MOST affection in my heart#I could structure a kids show and I know how to write for tv but in my heart of hearts#I just want to write an impossibly long absurdity epic that is weird and a little bad and also makes you feel shrimp emotions#ALSO I feel 0% bad for not respecting ur theory or opinion if you haven’t played khux/dr/recoded I don’t feel bad about it at all I’m right#understand what’s going on in them and I’ll respect your theories. it’s like comics enjoyers but less chaotic#don’t let me get into comics. superheroes never really catch my interest but if you let me get into comics I’d explode#��it gets really good’ is a genuine way to interest me#also don’t let me get into anime that do this. I already watched a thousand episodes of detective Conan—#maybe it’s a careful balance of weird and Good Storytelling Seeds. it has to have internal logic for one; and it has to have a structure#It has to be leading somewhere. and I want to see where it leads#we are GOING through the disney worlds. all of them. they are COOKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ctl-yuejie · 2 years
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ramblings on Li Ming (and Heart) and homosexuality
moonlight chicken has so many things to offer in terms of technical beauty and interesting themes but what i cannot stop thinking about is the different ways they approach homosexuality in the story.
we have Wen who has a rainbow flag on his desk and pictures of him and Alan on the wall. Wen, who openly flirts with Jim and has no qualms talking openly about his one night stand. Wen, whose step father knows about his sexuality and is close enough with him to discuss his love life.
Kaipa we don’t know too much about. But his mom knows and is supportive and some of the vendors and the chicken family seem to know. But if anyone was questioning in what reality this show is set with all the class discussion and corona featuring, his part of the story shows that homophobia exists and he is worried about how he fits in with his own family, the expectations of his mother and possible the awareness that he makes the family he has “different”.
Jim is arguably even more visibly gay than Wen in terms of what we see throughout the show. He opened the shop with his ex, they prayed at the temple together and even though he objected due to proprities sake eventually they loudly declared their love to each other and the whole neighbourhood knows. Wen somehow feels like he is living in the remnants of a bubble: his circle of friends seems very queer, his closest friend and the whole gym seem to be all part of that as well. This only might change now with him questioning his work and breaking up with Alan: some gatherings he won’t attend anymore apparently.
And finally, we have Li Ming. At school he doesn’t seem to open up to his classmates on most things and additionally is in the closet. While there wasn’t anything alluding to homophobic rethoric being spread at school we can see how the heteronormativity gets to him and feel that there must be good reason as to why no one knows. And it could just be how Li Ming is judging the situation based on vibes, we don’t know. His mother is or at least was homophobic but at the same time he is raised by his gay uncle who is surrounded by other gay people. And I love how it feels like this might have given him enough security to be comfortable with his own sexuality but how it also isn’t enough to shield him from the world at large.
With so many great shows coming out of Thailand and most of them getting more and more political it just feels so real and 2023 to me that Li Ming is part of a generation that knows who they are but still have to battle with the shadow that homophobia has cast way before they were born.
#moonlight chicken#i had this in my draft for a week now thinking if i'd get the time i could put this more leloquently but that was a lie as it turns out#might edit some stuff later#but for now i just have to write about how fantastic this show is for giving these varied realities of queer life#which are all influenced by their environment but also in the way the characters connect across generations#we don't know if him had a gay mentor who could've guided him#whereas li ming technically has him and his neighbourhood friends to reference#but li ming - understandibly so - seems more closeted than anyone else (minus Heart possigly)#in middle school everyone around me proclaimed how supportive they were of lgbt+ rights#but as soon as one guy came out he become the TALK of the school for weeks#he got reduced to his sexuality#and when he dated a girls some months after he got called attention seeking for coming out as gay before#and most people thought they were doing an open-minded thing#and despite knowing that i know that i am not the only queer kid who decided to not come out lest we'd become that talk of the whole school#and our dating lives scrutinized#even though all of us were super comfortable with who we are#and for me that was mostly the case because i had adult lesbian role models close to my family#so i knew i was good and that nothing strange was going on#but still - this othering made the school environment hostile enough to keep me in the closet#so yes - i am extremely delighted with how they depict this dynamic with li ming
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catzgam3rz · 1 year
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The only context you get for this is my uncle once forgot my grandma in his Tesla at an Olive Garden family dinner
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altschmerzes · 9 months
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it's just that sometimes you're so... impossibly happy and full of so much incredible joy that you gotta post about it on the internet otherwise you may get on the roof with a bullhorn yknow.
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thewinedarksea · 10 months
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we went to iceland!
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cuppatealove · 3 months
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fooltofancy · 29 days
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brief untethered post re: in from the cold 'cause i'm thinking abt autonomy again and about how ilya separates from himself under extreme duress already - serious problem after the banquet in arr and throughout hw, but culminating in sb specifically re: why and how he's so capable of real extreme acts of violence without really... settling to acknowledge them until much, much later. like he knows, but that knowledge hasn't ever settled physically in his body so if/when he feels that trauma he tends to feel it kind of all at once. anyway, forced very literally to come to terms with All That because zenos, the embodiment of all he's refusing to acknowledge inside of himself, understands him in a way he's never understood himself is so, so much.
and there's no real relief in succeeding, right, because that wasn't really the point, and he's just like. stuck in his body, this thing that begets nothing but violence and blood and hurt, and he's kinda just got to. live with that, lmao. despite everything it's still you ass moment.
so he goes home, because instead of actually dealing with all that all he can think about is fray, and ishgard, and the baffling black heart of him all wrapped up the first place he felt all the blood was worth something.
and it was worth something at all because of aymeric. like, he struggles to admit it but every time he ends up back there, almost always so far out of his way it'needing someone else who sees past all of the blood he's spilled to remind him of what else his body is for.
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luciolefire · 1 month
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I really do want to ask her out
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faaun · 1 month
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ok let's catch up quickly
#so i went on a few dates w this guy. long hair beautiful face kinda looked like a girl (good) said yes ma'am when i told him to do smth#(also good) film student great at photography including candids. made a sheath of leather for a sword pin i have . et cetera.#he asked to cuddle and i was like iggg and then i felt Nothing and i was like ohhh yh ok ok yep lesbian#like he meets almost all my criteria but. yeahhh no . also at the end of that date he had some weird takes. anyway broke up w him and told#him actually im p sure im a lesbian (again) and he was like yk thats the second time this has happened to me this week but its ok bc ive#fallen for this girl from berlin. and then we cooked together. anyway . met a beautiful butch lowk in love w her. weve been on (1) date.#have two exams in a few days havent studied enough going to like end it all basically. my research partner kicked me off our research#(expected(it was always skinda sketchy)) which was devastating + it happened in a lidl 15 hours into a journey from bordeaux#to go back to the UK. my friends were kinda busy paying for baguettes but also they heard this whole exchange and are kinda mad at him#my friend of 10+ years is coming over in a few days. my evil ex situationship person that i decided to stay friends w because i kept#insisting they are a good friend and not evil and also extremely beautiful? turns out shockingly enough they were evil. tried to fix them#and then i realised due to their entire friendship group being ppl like me (Every Single One of their friends are ppl they met on dating#apps then led on then dumped and proposed staying friends w) and are collectively extremely attracted to them and not over them they#keep validating the most diabolical shit they say/do to hace a chance w them. they broke up w their ex and the way they keep leading#this poor girl on and making her heartbeeak worse and saying that they want more power over her and want her to beg for them back etc...MY#JAW HAD DROPPED esp bc i didnt even know the ex was in the picture BECAUSE ME AND ONE OF OUR FRIENDS (that they also dated) HAD JUSR SLEPT#NAKED TOGETHER IN THEIR BED W THEM. GIRL. anyway that is the least of the diabolical stuff they said but no we are moving onnn#this was b4 the beautiful butch btw. anyways . i have a mitski concert tmrw i think?? idek anymore#i used to have a crush on this guy very briefly and then it disappeared and then i realised if he fundementally changed everything abt#himself then maybe id like him but ofc i didnt tell him that but i still think abt it sometimes but anyway thats irrelevant now bc 99% sure#even if he did id still not find him attractive (lesbianism). please recommend good overnight moisturisers btw i have super dry skin#right. the friend of 10 yrs. we had a hard convo abt why she essentially bullied me in year 8 and it made me highly bitter but i also love#her and ik things are diff now its been like . Many Years . and shes going to stay a while I HAVE TWO EXAMS I DONT HAVE TIME but i love her#its fine. i think i might just switch into medicine and do the whole become a neurosurgeon thing (which was my plan B) bc plan A is looking#kinda impossible rn. I WANNA TALK MORE ABT WHAT THE EX SITUATIONSHIP PERSON SAID but i wont bc i dont wanna be too mean but also . MY GOD#i had a conversation w a philosopher friend about whether i have a moral responsibility to try to fix them bc unleashing this on society#feels wrong and he said 'probably but...run' so yeah im not talking to them atm. second date w beautiful butch on monday btw IDK WHAT TO#WEAR. she said she likes fems. im just gonna wear the shortest ralph lauren skirt i have w the cute leg warmers and hope 4 the best#its 1:15 AM im abt to drink coffee and start studying bc what the FUCK man. also almost finished watching the boys its very good#one of my best friends is struggling rn it is breaking my heart i want to take the burden from her i miss her very much
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acerikus · 1 month
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Someone being extremely annoying in the replies of my flowey and clover gif and I'm running out of patience 😭
#'well I THINK theyd just kill everyone then never reset in neutral' 'WE decide who clover is at heart' can you not#like. this is a piece of fanart. did you really just reply to tell me you don't like my headcanons or what#like... at least mention the art of you're gonna go on a several reply stint of this...#and im sorry but mmmmh... bad takes. frisk is morally ambiguous and its impossible to know what they'd do without our influence at this tim#but its a. fucking HUGE plot point in yellow neutral that we know what clover does without influence. without us. without flowey.#they stay w toriel indefinitely...#there's wiggle room for why and that's interesting. but its very clear vengeance wouldnt normally be their driving force#and that in itself is interesting! do we make them give into their anger? warp their sense of justice?#are they just going through the motions of getting this done now that they've ended up on this path?#that's all way more interesting to discuss than what feels like just treating them as a nothing character to treat as an insert#they did say its bc they dont like considering vengeance canon but that stumps me even more#why do you think we mold them then????#and idk if the devs said anything about it being noncanon but i haven't heard so#(and the devs also said Clover's gender is 'up to interpretation' and that's stupid so i also just don't care I'm sorry)#I'd rather embrace all routes and consider what that can mean for the characters#vengeance being unrealistic for ut means nothing when NONE of uty is realistic for ut#it's just a cool what if kinda story
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acebytaemin · 9 months
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NYE fit (snoopy slippers included)
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