#i reread the adwd chapter

[ilynpilled]

i think what i ultimately came away with when it comes to jaime’s feast arc is that yeah it mainly focuses on jaime’s internal development and it was necessary in beginning to address all the huge flaws we are left with in asos (he wanted revenge, he wanted the golden hand, he is still stuck on perception and has a flawed #cope outlook on honor, he wants glory (tie to his family), he is still w cersei and the lannisters) so he is made to revisit his asos journey in a new context, with a new partner. it is not with the idealistic brienne, but ilyn, who is in some ways identical to jaime himself. his first journey is with what he used to be when he was a boy (naive idealist), and then he revisits that journey with the man he eventually became (an executioner of the lannister regime). and it is emphasized that what he is doing is not enough and that many of his pursuits are inherently flawed or a dead end. and he is aware deep down. u cant really make the vows, and whatever deeper and more abstract meaning they hold, compromise is what is in the conclusion of the subtext imo. adwd is so full of such contradictions. his choices in it keep unwittingly contradicting tywin’s dogma in every way. i think it puts him in the ideal place to be forced into confronting stoneheart and all the baggage that comes with that. that is what i really hope will happen. and then i want him to make a grueling effort in addressing things and pivoting. winds will not be easy, it will be 10x worse than feast: stoneheart and all his sins, potential brienne conflict, his children that he also doomed by choosing the oath, cersei, etc. it is all gonna be pretty brutal. i just think the set up is pretty clear atp

[visenyaism]

💥MY CHILD WAS TURNCLOAK OF THE MONTH AT CASTLE BLACK 300 AC💥

[mummersblade]

Jon (AGOT) and Arya (ASOS) doubting if Robb will take them as they are, a deserter of the Night's Watch and a young girl forced to kill to survive

Jon (AGOT) and Arya (ASOS) knowing they would be unconditionally accepted by one another

Jon (ADWD) and Arya (AFFC) seeing each other as home

[denmark-street]

What if both George R. R. Martin and Philip Pullman announce the release date of their next book during their Oxford conversation this summer...

What if The Winds of Winter is published on September 20th for GRRM's birthday...

What if it was also mine...

[mossflower]

btw i finished asoiaf. honestly they’re fucking bangers

[smallhatlogan]

guy who didn't finish their last ASOIAF reread because they kept procrastinating on ASoS Tyrion 11: "What if I reread ASOIAF from the start again?"

[weirwoodsugar]

i’m on the jon dies chapter of my adwd reread. two things 1) george why did you have the quentyn and jon death chapters back to back but the quentyn chapter is upsetting and disturbing and the jon chapter is extremely funny until the last like two scenes 💀

???? he is going to die in ten pages

what would the lord commander like us to do with his corpses 💀 💀 workplace comedy

2) it is such a jaw dropping power move to announce to an entire all-staff meeting that you’re deserting. i can’t wrap my head around it. such a moment. my man knows how to work a room!

[amuelia]

I've been rereading the series since hotd and Roose going "even here, in my happy house of Harrenhal" is goddamned hysterical. Most haunted, cursed castle ever and he's doing a cute little alliteration for it. Addams family vibes.

Nskfjdjs i love his little dialogue quirks...

It’s fun to compare scenes where he talks to people above him/in tense situations/in public (like scenes with king robb), with scenes of him talking in private to people that are beneath him or that he clearly has the upper hand against... He watches his words a lot in the former and comes across polite and cold/serious (in the very high stakes red wedding chapter he barely says anything), but when he talks to the latter (scenes with Jaime, Ramsay, Theon...) he gets somewhat of an attitude since he can afford to be himself more as there are less repercussions if the other person is offended (most clearly you can see it when he talks to Reek).

He definitely has a frequent sense of humor, though often the things he says are only funny to himself, since he usually jokes about serious situations or offensive/insulting things, and sometimes even about things the other person doesn’t know about yet

“Harrion Karstark was captive here when we took the castle, did you know? I gave him all the Karhold men still with me and sent him off with Glover. I do hope nothing ill befell him at Duskendale...” [he sent him out to die] - aSoS

“ ‘Tis scarcely chivalrous to threaten your host over his own cheese and olives,” the Lord of the Dreadfort scolded. “In the north, we hold the laws of hospitality sacred still.” [several chapters later the red wedding happens] - aSoS

"Forty wayns full of foodstuffs. Casks of wine and hippocras, barrels of fresh-caught lampreys, a herd of goats, a hundred pigs, crates of crabs and oysters, a monstrous codfish … Lord Wyman likes to eat. You may have noticed." - aDwD

That prospect did not appear to please Lord Ramsay. "I laid waste to Winterfell, or had you forgotten?"     -     "No, but it appears you have … the ironmen laid waste to Winterfell, and butchered all its people. Theon Turncloak."   - aDwD

"Smitten?" Bolton laughed. "Did he use that word? Why, the boy has a singer's soul …” [about his relation to Ramsay’s mother] - aDwD

"If truth be told, the [Ramsay’s mother] was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day.” - aDwD   

He’s also eloquent and has a very well-chosen way with words, fond of making sentences with words that have a nice rhythm/sound together (like the alliteration you sent); he also likes to impart “wisdoms” on people (statements about “how things are” or “should be done”), and it appears important to him that he comes across as witty and intelligent

"—my lord, when you should have said m'lord. Your tongue betrays your birth with every word you say. If you want to sound a proper peasant, say it as if you had mud in your mouth, or were too stupid to realize it was two words, not just one." - aDwD

“A peaceful land, a quiet people, that has always been my rule." [he actually says this twice in the chapter, so clearly it’s something he thinks is wise] - aDwD

"He should be. Fear is what keeps a man alive in this world of treachery and deceit.” - aDwD

“Boy lords are the bane of any House.” - aDwD

Also fun to see how much he starts dominating conversations when he really gets into it... He’s a very talkative guy especially when he gets to either tell a story from his perspective or impart some hypothesis (like his long explanation to Jaime about what he thinks Vargo Hoat’s motives are)

[istumpysk]

Hello! I’ve really been enjoying your chapter rereads. I’m a big fan of both Daenerys and Sansa (although unlike many Dany fans, I like her for her potential as a villain. I’ll be a fan of the character whether or not GRRM decides to follow through with her villain arc. There are things that she could do that would make me stop liking her but for now I hold the position that I like her, hero or villain).

Have you ever given much thought to potential anti-parallels between Dany and Sansa? They do share a lot of common experiences but with mostly different outcomes and I think their trajectories are clearly pretty different. I think there’s some really fertile ground for comparison.

1. Both are forced into marriages with much older men as political pawns. Both are traumatic experiences but as a result, Sansa ends up losing power whereas Dany gains it. 2. Sansa’s magical creature dies (RIP Lady) and Dany’s magical creatures are brought back from the dead. 3. Both are in a sort of exile as a result of the crimes of their fathers. Difference is that Ned didn’t actually really commit a crime and Aerys was a monster. 4. Both have a dark mentor who is also a spy, who makes unwanted advances and specifically force a kiss upon them. Both girls remind these men of another woman they loved. 5. Hair is somewhat significant. Sansa has distinctive Tully auburn, which she must dye. Dany has distinctive Valyrian silver, which is burned away. 6. Both have a dead older brother who incited great violence by having extramarital affairs (I guess Robb wasn’t married yet but I count it). 7. Both are romantics who love stories/songs and go through a sort of disillusionment. However, Sansa becomes more aware and realistic whereas Dany falls deeper into delusion. 8. Lemons. The house with the red door and the lemon tree vs lemon cakes.

Im still only like 30% through AFfC but know how it and ADwD differ from the show so idc about book spoilers. I’d really love to hear your input and if you can think of any other parallels or anti-parallels!

Hey anon, great list!

Admittedly, I suck at drawing direct parallels between characters, so I can only think of the contrasting aspects of their personalities, such as their leadership styles, their approaches to power, their notions of identity and self-perception, etc.

One thing that does stand out is how differently the author explores the themes of home and motherhood in both their POVs. A couple of people have written about it before, perhaps you'd like to read it.

Thanks for your message. :)

[1794]

I posted about this a while ago but dont think u saw soooo i was wondering what you think about theons twow sample chapter. I mean you know how i feel and ive decided to treat it as a milk of the poppy induced dream before he dies and goes to hell forever

LOL I actually haven't read any of the twow sample chapters outside of the barristan one that's included at the end of adwd -_- I know it's foolhardy but I'm still holding out hope of the book being released in the next couple years and as silly as it is I want to keep the "rereading" minimal. yk. but perhaps I'll look up this "theon chapter" you speak of and report back

[janiedean]

in regards to the Griffith and the lion mentioned in the prophecy they might be cersei and the red ronnet connington ( who may join up with each other) and he could tell her about brienne "the beauty" ( which may mess with cersei's head given that her prophecy said she would have everything taken from her by another younger more beautiful ) and how Jaime and red's last interaction went shaking her faith

ngl I 100% forgot about that one prophecy because as I never made a mystery of I forgot 95% of dany's adwd chapters so I absolutely have zero input to give you on this because I looked it up now and remembered it existed but I don't remember the context and I don't even remember when it happened and if it's about dany I'm in no way shape or form anyone you should ask meta opinions about because as stated I think she's ok but I'm not invested whatsoever, but like... put it like this it absolutely has merit and ngl I'd kind of be glad to see it happen, that said

i am still of the idea that younger and more beautiful is actually aegon and cers already has the marg red herring so idk how many times it can be done without it turning into a soap opera but maybe I'm wrong so who knows

I reread the prophecy and it's like... >> Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon << the kraken is obv euron, the dark flame I absolutely have no fucking clue (unless it happened already and I forgot again who tf remembers dany's adwd chapters not me), sun's son is obv quentyn and mummer's dragon is obv aegon but they're not coming in a pair, so... either you're right and it's cers + ronnett or it's tyrion + joncon, honestly if my dance rehash theory is right idt dany is even dealing with cers before aegon does so I have no idea but tldr I have zero stakes in that bit of story and I couldn't throw my two cents for sure but I like the idea that ronnet actually tells her jaime punched him in the teeth for brienne that would be lovely

[first-of-her-nxme]

I was rereading agot and I think that maybe Jaqen could have tried to kill Gregor? At the tourney where he is basically competing with Loras his horse is acting up. I remember from the chapter of Arya at the HoBaW with the poisons lesson and there is one used in animals too, to make them mad or something. He heard maybe how Ser Hugh was killed so he tried to use the tourney the same way to kill him. Idk it’s interesting to read the first book bc I feel like there are so many clues and esp when you read theories then everything starts to feel kind of insane thinking it’s actually something. Grrm we need the books please..😭😏

What a great question! You are very observant.

I must say I don't really subscribe to the horse theory because I think it takes a lot more to kill Gregor. Though maybe it was a warm up? :) You are right though: Jaqen's goal is to kill Gregor as well. Moreover, it has already been established in the books that he will kill him.

I suppose the original plan was that Oberyn would kill Gregor. Oberyn was older, at the time he must have been stronger than young Jaqen. Oberyn also had a history of beating the seemingly stronger opponents. And, as we know, he wanted the revenge badly.

Oberyn succeeded but he also got killed in the process. And Qyburn managed to revive what was left of Gregor and turned him into an even worse monster. And that monster will be eventually killed by "Jaqen". Perhaps, GRRM wanted both, Oberyn and "Jaqen", to have their revenge on the one who brutally murdered their sister/mother?

GRRM here makes a nod to the legend of Ragnar. When Ragnar was captured he promised that his sons would one day come and avenge his father:

How the little piggies will grunt when they hear how the old boar suffered.

The old boar is Ragnar and the piglets, his sons. They did avenge their father, killing the king who sentenced him to death.

Here is how GRRM incorporated it into ASOIAF:

Robert Baratheon was killed by a boar. The hunting scene looked similar to Robert's and Rhaegar's duel at the Trident. Robert seemed fatally wounded and about to fall but he still managed to kill the boar. So, the boar here stands for Rhaegar. Then, Rhaegar's son, Aegon/Jaqen, arrived in King's Landing with his plan of revenge. Aegon then went to Oldtown and assumed the identity of the "little pig" - Pate called Pate the Pig Boy. So, we have a killed boar, Rhaegar, and his son, the young pig boy, Aegon/Jaqen, and his revenge.

Robert was called strong. Now, when Qyburn revived Gregor, they called him Ser Robert Strong. So, he is not only Gregor, he is also symbolically Robert Baratheon. The pig boy will return to kill the murderer of his mother and also, symbolically, the killer of his father, Rhaegar "the old boar".

There is another reference to a duel between Jaqen and Ser Robert. It's in A Dance with Dragons, in Jon's POV, when Shireen meets the giant, Wun Weg Wun. It's tremendously important to remember that Shireen and Patchface are foils for Arya and Jaqen. And this little scene is loaded with foreshadowing for them, not for Shireen.

"Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun." The giant's voice rumbled like a boulder crashing down a mountainside. He sank to his knees before them. Even kneeling, he loomed over them. "Kneel queen. Little queen." Words that Leathers had taught him, no doubt.

Princess Shireen's eyes went wide as dinner plates. - ADWD

The giant calls Shireen little queen even though she is a princess. GRRM wrote it like that because the little queen title refers to Arya's future plot. Patchface here is dressed like a king so we have a royal couple in the room. The giant takes interest in Patches and it frightens "the king". Patchface is dancing but he eventually lands on his bottom. And we get this riddle from him:

"In the dark the dead are dancing." - Patchface, ADWD

This little scene is another hint at the duel between the giant, Ser Robert Strong, and the rightful king, Aegon/Jaqen.

Dancing stands in for fighting. The dead means that they are both assumed dead, Gregor was killed by Oberyn and Aegon was supposed to die in King's Landing. It might also mean that they both will die though not necessary both during that duel. Them dancing/fighting in the dark means that A/J will have to put his blind training to use. As you know, all faceless men learn to fight while blinded. Oberyn lost the fight when Gregor blinded him. I do hope that Ser Robert won't blind A/J. However, Ser Robert never opens his visor so perhaps there will be a demand for A/J to fight with his visor closed as well. The duel might take place in King's Landing during the trial by combat, so some authority might force their rules on the fighters.

I hope it sheds a little light on the events to come.

Thank you for dropping by, Anon!

[agentrouka-blog]

I never understood Brienne crashing the Vale Tourney. There is a lot of distance to cover and I bet Stoneheart is just going to let her go. At present I think her Winds Storyline will center around Stoneheart, Brotherhood, meeting Arya, knighted by Jaime I hope so etc. What are your predictions as to how her arc might shape in Winds?

I have no solid predictions, unfortunately!

I do agree that Brienne making it to the Vale seems an unlikely development, and I do agree that her focus in TWOW will be on the Lady Stoneheart plotline.

Of course, this plotline will be told out of chronological order with most of the Westerosi plot we've already been presented, essentially. 

Jaime disappears with Brienne - and stays disappeared - very soon after the surrender of Riverrun (which is before Sansa descends fron the Eyrie) and a not insignificant amount of time passes since then, including Cersei's entire imprisonment, part of which involves waiting for Kevan Lannister to make his way to KL from the other side of the continent, the Walk of Shame and the aftermath leading up to the ADWD Epilogue. Arianne's two TWOW sample chapters take place around that time, as well. As does Sansa's sample chapter. In theory, Brienne could well be on her way eastward again. We have no way of knowing, yet.

That said, the speculation I have developed so far (primarily with @istumpysk due to her excellent reread project) is that the Lady Stoneheart plotline could well lead up to a split in the Brotherhood. 

Whatever plan Brienne has formed in how to deal with the threat to Podrick and Hyle Hunt and Jaime, it's likely to receive help from within the Brotherhood as well. We have fully morally compromised members like Lady Stoneheart and Lem, and then we have ambiguous figures who regret the murderous turn from helping the smallfolk and conducting actual trials toward vengeful murder and mock trials.

Thoros is a prime candidate for turning on Lady Stoneheart and helping Brienne and her companions (perhaps even Jaime) escape, and the fact that he is a priest of R'hllor like Melisandre opens up many parallels to, say, the split in Stannis' camp between moderates and religious fanatics, which is also paralleled in the desire to kill a "guilty man" (Theon v. Jaime) and the threat to an innocent child (Shireen v. Podrick) and vengeance against usurping traitorous lords (Frey/Lannister v. Frey/Bolton).

The escape of Brienne and her companions may mirror the escape of Theon and Asha, and the fallout for the Brotherhood in their absence (yet more atrocities) may well mirror the lead-up to the burning of Shireen. At that later point, hopefully Arya would have made it back to Westeros to help tie up that plot with a turn toward something unexpected: mercy.

That said, I think - probably like Asha and Theon - Brienne and Jaime are likely to split paths before long. Hopefully their relationship will be crowned by a knighting (as suggested by the significant meeting place of Pennytree), and Brienne sets out to fulfill her promise to Catelyn while Jaime sets out toward his endgame: his children and his sister/wife, doing what Rhaegar failed to do and putting them before himself.

So, by the time the TWOW plot sets in, some of this may have already happened, actually. Brienne's path may be obscured from us until she shows up somewhere to meet/rescue one of the Stark sisters, be it Arya or Sansa.

I am starting to lean back toward it being Sansa, but I would still prefer it to be Arya, simply because of the juxtaposition of their different ways of being mortally dangerous female characters in a deeply sexist world. A true knight from the songs and a tiny assassin baby. Perhaps we'll get a mix of both and Brienne meets Arya without recognizing her, unknowlingly setting her on the path toward Lady Stoneheart while making her way north to trail Sansa.

If she does meet her there and begins to mirror her storyline with Catelyn (as suggested in the show) she may take up a role somewhat similar to Jonquil Darke for a while, until perhaps she is sent on another quest.

Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. There were only seven of them, and they wore white armor and had no wives or children, but lived only to serve the king. Bran knew all the stories. Their names were like music to him. (AGOT, Bran II)

Brienne, Jaime and Catelyn's stories are connected through children, his three bastards but also Sansa, Arya and Bran, so I think it would be nice if Bran finally got to meet a real knight like he had dreamed of: a true knight.

[smallhatlogan]

i wish grrm hadn’t gone so far in making Tyrion such an irredeemable scumbag in my eyes. Like, knowing more or less where his story is going, it’s going to be hard to enjoy some real plot important shit when a central heroic character is someone who at this point I want to see be killed by a woman in some ironic fashion. 

[weirwoodsugar]

another thing i have noticed while rereading adwd is that i have to take a nap after i read a theon chapter like im exhausted im EXHAUSTED !!! are theon chapters longer than other characters chapters? ive never checked the actual word count here but i swear to god every theon chapter is like a novella are they actually longer or do they feel longer because they make me want to die somewhat. i need to lie down. for a while.

i have more excerpts from theon chapters screencapped than any other character because any time he says something that makes me want to jump off a bridge i have to save it to send to @seppin so that they also want to jump off a bridge about it theon derangement is better when shared with a friend... spinning him around in my mind so fast he pops out the top of my skull like one of those pull string fairy toys. its 7:30 am i havent even gone to work yet but i need a nap

[megatron-moving-to-megatron]

i must reread theons adwd chapters tomorrow