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aemiron-main · 10 months ago

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Who is Who? What is What? Doctor Martin Brenner and Henry Creel: What Does The Man Want? Why is Brenner Henry? Get That Man Out of The Boy's Head!

So, I already talked in this post about Brenner’s weird “no ONE but me," line, and "who is Henry Creel" and all of the weird “Brenner is somehow Henry but also not Henry” connections:

And then today, I wanted to expand on this post I made before seeing TFS about Richard Brenner vs Martin Brenner and Brenner Sr vs Brenner Jr, and I also wanted to expand on how 1959 TFS Brenner doesn’t have grey in his hair but in-show 1959 Brenner does-

-and I was going to expand by saying “oh, see, in 1979, 001 mentions ‘Dr MARTIN Brenner,’ while a clip of the guy with greying hair in 1959 plays, so clearly the guy with greying hair is MARTIN Brenner and the guy in TFS is likely Richard”

Which, I still think that could totally be true, but then something else hit me while rewatching that clip.

(continued under the cut)

So, considering that first post I linked, and considering those weird connections between Brenner and Henry in TFS, is it just me, or is it a REALLY weird choice to have this line:

Only play over HENRY’s face.

And then that line immediately ends/vanishes as soon as Brenner shows up, and is replaced by the “Papa” line:

Which, on the surface, this implies that a.) the dude walking up to the bed is Dr Martin Brenner and b.) that Dr Martin Brenner is Papa, but it gets a lot more convoluted when we look closer, especially with the context of posts like the posts James @henrysglock made that I can't find rn regarding the distinction between Brenner and Papa, and even the distinction between more than one Papa.

Like, to make what I’m saying extra clear- it’s a really REALLY weird production/editing/writing choice to have the line about “Dr Martin Brenner” only play over a shot of Henry’s face:

Like, if that screenshot was just a totally out of context still image with the caption “Dr Martin Brenner,” people would likely assume that the child in the bed is Dr Martin Brenner as a child, and that the man walking up to the bed is Papa:

And that Dr Martin Brenner and Papa are two separate people.

This would be odd on it’s own, but maybe not SUPER weird if we didn’t also ALSO have the context of this post & TFS conflating Brenner and Henry in weird ways.

Especially with how TFS Brenner refers to Brenner Sr as “my Papa,”- a line that is made EXTRA weird by the use of the word “my,” considering what I talked about in this post regarding “your Papa.” And THAT post gets even WEIRDER when when we consider the fact that in that post, the “your Papa,” line is specifically in the context of soteria- versus this post that I made about TFS Brenner specifically touching the soteria spot on his neck.

And then all of this gets EVEN WEIRDER when we jump over to this post about “you have to BE your dad,” versus the Brenner-Henry connection versus Victor Creel being Henry’s father versus TFS Brenner looking weirdly like in-show Victor Creel:

Like, why is Brenner Henry but also Henry’s dad/Victor in a play that has a line about “you have to BE your dad”?

Which, the whole “you have to BE your dad” line from Alan Munson to Hopper Jr gets even weirder when we consider the wording in that scene & how it ties to Brenner.

Alan says “you can’t play your dad, you have to BE your dad,” and Jim says “I don’t want to be my dad” (also smthn smthn Brenner saying to Henry that Henry ‘wants’ to kill):

And then Alan says “Okay, well, what does he want? What motivates the man?”

And if the line “what does he want” is familiar to you, it’s because when we go back to S2, Owens asks Will what the evil wanted:

And also, this is old news, but “the man” is used to refer to Brenner by Becky Ives in S1- but it’s also used to refer to Hopper in the police station AND Becky’s line is worded in a way that sort of has double meaning re: referring to both Hopper and Brenner as “the man,” which is really odd considering that this TFS line about “the man,” is also in relation to Hopper, but to Hopper Sr/Hopper’s father rather than Hopper Jr.

(and Karen also calls Brenner “that man,” and I just included that to demonstrate the continued connection between the word “man” and Brenner)

And then there’s ALSO the extra layer of the use of the word “what,” in Alan’s line “what does he wan? What motivates the man?“ versus the use of the word “what” when it comes to Henry and Brenner- such as Patty asking Henry “what are you, Henry Creel?”:

And Brenner interrogating Henry about the anomaly that derailed the procedure and saying “I wonder what’s changed?” and “what is it you want?”:

Which also ties back into Alan saying “what does he want?” to Jim:

And so going back to Alan’s line with the “what motivates the man,” bit, if we look at this through the lens of double-meaning/subtext, and take that as a STATEMENT rather than a question, a literal statement of “what motivates the man,” with “what” (whatever ‘what’ is) being the man’s motivation, then that seems to mean that the “what” that Brenner is referring to in his scene with Henry and the “what” that Patty is referring to in her scene with Henry is the thing that motivates Brenner.

And going back to that S2 Owens scene, the “what” in question is “to kill”:

So, if we combine all of that, then what motivates the man?

Killing does. Killing motivates the man. Killing is what. (at least in some sense- I also think there’s likely more meanings re: the word ‘what’/double meanings etc, but that’s for another time)

And it’s extra interesting to me that seemingly, killing is what motivates the man, but also, “the man,” gets conflated with “evil,” when Owens asks what the evil wanted- versus Wayne Munson saying that “the man”/“who” is “pure evil” (which, that fact that on the surface, Wayne is referring to Victor Creel makes all of this even WEIRDER considering what I talked about earlier re: TFS Brenner vs in-show Victor):

And the mention of “who,” brings us to our next section, because now that we’ve covered the what, there’s also the who, because in the next bit between Alan and Hopper Jr, it goes:

Jim: “Bourbon and Playboy?”

Alan: “Or- he’s just a single father who wants to raise his son, and he’s doing the best he can.”

And, of course, this ties to Stav @heroesbyler's post about how Brenner = “who.”

And, in that screenshot compilation from earlier about “the man,” there’s that screenshot from Wayne Munson (that I talked about in this post) where Wayne says “the man who,” which further ties the sue of “the man” in Alan’s line to the use of “who,” in Alan’s line, and then also ties that to Brenner again.

Also, when taken more literally/swapping out "who" for Brenner, we get "he's just a single father, Brenner wants to raise his son," which has me staring at all of the weird Brenner-Victor stuff and Brenner stealing Henry to raise him in the lab vs Victor technically being a single father after Virginia's death.

And this is getting into stretch territory, but the use of the word “Playboy,” stands out to me here when it comes to the phrasing of Alan’s previous line with how Hopper can’t “play” his dad- versus Brenner in S4 with his line about “play a game,”:

And then also all of the weird references to Brenner being Henry somehow PLUS things like what I talked about in this post re: Henry and “not a child” versus Hopper’s whole thing in S1 about going after “the wrong kid”- is Brenner pretending to a boy/pretending to be Henry?

Is Brenner literally “playing boy”/playboy? Is he pretending to be Henry in some context?

I know that James talked in this lovely post about the idea of Henry playing Brenner, but now I'm wondering if it's the other way around.

Especially with “Brenner’s” weird line to “Henry” about “you think this is a game?”:

Which, this would align perfectly with what I talked about in this post after TFS and this post pre-TFS about characters in TFS pretending to be other characters, and with how Murray pretends to be Yuri and vice versa in S4, and what I talked about in this post with how that ties to Henward and NINA (and now Brenner).

And it would also likely tie into what I talked about in this post re: Henward and TFS and “I could not pretend.”

Also, all of the “you have to BE your father,” things re: Brenner and Henry gets EXTRA weird when we consider Back to the Future and George McFly (Marty McFly’s father), and how a.) “George” was Henry’s codename for TFS, b.) Marty McFly almost accidentally became his own dad and almost erased himself from the timeline as a result (something that Steve and Robin specifically reference in S3), and c.) Marty McFly is pretty similar to Martin Brenner.

But like I said, it also seems like Brenner is somehow pretending to be Henry/playing as Henry. Like a puppet.

Which is especially interesting considering this line between Brenner and El, where Brenner says “Henry, who’s manipulated you line some puppet?”:

Which, if, like we did earlier with the “what motivates the man” line, we take that line and look at it subtext-wise/as a statement, then we get:

“Henry, who’s manipulated you like some puppet.”

And if we keep in mind that Brenner tends to = “who,” and so we swap out “who” for Brenner:

Then we get “Henry, Brenner’s manipulated you like some puppet.”

Which fits perfectly with Brenner pretending to be Henry/playing Henry and how that would be like Brenner puppeting Henry around- smthn smthn Pinnochio, smthn smthn “I’m a real boy,” smthn smthn “It’s not real. I’m normal. I’m Henry Creel.”

It’s all extremely weird. Why is everyone Brenner?

What the hell is going on here?

Who is who?

What is what?

#stranger things #the first shadow #martin brenner #henry creel #richard brenner

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chirpsythismorning · 2 years ago

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hi! i’ve been reading your analysis/theory posts and i love them all! i had a question about your will being twelve theory, i definitely see how he could be, the only thing i don’t really get is how he would be at the lab and have a life outside the lab? like mike said the first day of kindergarten will was on the swings by himself and they’ve been best friends ever since, and joyce talked about the crayons for his eigth birthday and how his friends all got him star wars toys, so we know he was friends with at least mike and lucas (i think dustin came in the 4th grade so it’s possible he was also friends with will at this point) and possibly other kids when he was younger, so how would he be able to have this whole life outside the lab while also being a kid at the lab?

Hey! I’m so glad you love reading them!! And also apologizes for taking so long to reply!

I don’t think, based on any fandom-wide consensus of the events on the show, as of now, that I'd be able to provide a definitive answer?

Like there has to be pieces missing, which have been left out for a reason, and those are the details that I think will be necessary to fully transcribe to this theory. Until then, there's too much missing for even me to believe it fully.

However, if twelvegate is real, or at least close to what’s going down, then even despite the entire audience missing it, I do think there are probably hints in the details connecting Will to Hawkins Lab, that were either missed or not pinpointed properly, which may or may not hold some answers.

I do have a of couple theories about where some pieces of the twelvegate puzzle might be hiding in earlier seasons. Although, I think beyond pointing them out and talking about them, it will only lead us to more questions!

TBH, most of this post will just be me trying to come up with some possibilities. While I don't fully believe all the observations I've came across are leading in every direction I speculate them to be, I do think the answers for the ending have to be in the show. There are only so many options to work with here... And so, whatever. I'm going for it.

To start things off, a wise man once said:

I always wondered if this could be a hint to the audience that the answers to some major questions are hidden in some sort of papers we've seen/heard of throughout the show? Newspapers, documents, drawings perhaps?

This then reminded me of the newspaper clipping(s) they showed at the end of s1 related to Will's disappearance:

Hawkins Lab Blocks Inquiry (left)

Coroner Arrested For Falsifying Autopsy (middle bottom)

More Heads Roll in Ongoing State Trooper Scandal (right)

The Boy Who Came Back To Life (middle)

The former missing child Will Byers has been found after a week of searching. He is presently in stable condition in Hawkins General Hospital. Byers' mother, Joyce Byers, alleges Will was the subject of a secret government program run by the Hawkins National Laboratory. The allegation comes amidst a massive investigation into the hidden organization and its elaborate experimentations in perusal of mind control. — The abuse detailed in the first report includes prolonged physical duress and psychological interrogation. This [gove]rnment sanctioned torture has [prov]oked outrage amongst the American . . . In a statement issued yesterday . . . Ives mentioned her "disgust" . . . the organization saying, "our own [Ame]rican people are being treated like . . . we should be directing our . . . to the real target, the Soviets, not . . . own daughters and sons." Under legal . . . Brenner has issued no comment on . . .

An article by that same title resurfaces in s2. However, it seems to have changed some of the details about what happened, in an update of sorts.

The Boy Who Came Back To Life (s2)

"In a recent statement, the state coroner's office has admitted to misidentifying the body recovered from the Sattler Quarry as twelve year old Will Byers. Will Byers had gone missing two days prior, inspiring the town of Hawkins to form a search party in the hopes of finding him. When a boy's body was recovered from Sattler Quarry, the case seemed solved. Six days later local police, lead by Chief Jim Hopper, found Byers alive in an abandoned cave a few miles outside of Hawkins."

Obviously, the update of this article had to do with the State coming in and covering things up.

I've read up on it, but all I can find from the ga's consensus back then, is there was some confusion over the fact that the article went from being about Will and his disappearance being connected to Hawkins lab and experimentation and mind control, only to switch in the next paragraph to Terry Ives report on Jane's abduction. A lot of people speculated that it was probably just a copy paste error, where like the Duffers were too lazy to put something relevant there, and so they slapped on a random paragraph and called it a day?

Now, to be real with you, even if the Duffers themselves said this was the case, that it was just an error on their part, I would not believe them...? Because rewatching that shot, you can tell it's important? Like what else is the point of it, if not to hint at something? And then why have it return in the following season (literally one episode later?), with an update, that clearly covers up most of the details, if there's no deeper reason behind it?

One thing from the s1 version that has me side eyeing is, 'our daughters and sons' (Willel s1 crumbs?).

I also find it interesting that they refer to the quarry as Sattler Quarry, twice? It doesn't seem that important on the surface, but from what I remember Sattler Quarry was really sort of sus in terms of what they were up to and the way they were talked about, in connection to Hawkins Lab and them scrambling to cover up Will's disappearance by planting a fake body there? Idk it just feels weird...

Which brings me to this next small detail I haven't heard anyone talk about before, but I have a feeling it could be part of this, or perhaps part of something that is still yet to be revealed.

The night they find Will's body, Karen and Ted are watching the news. We hear the reporter talking about Will's body being found at the quarry. Though the audio is loud enough to hear at the beginning, the newscast shifts to quiet background noice as Mike's parents begin talking.

White text is easy to hear/red text is a little difficult to hear:

"Byers' body was found in the water of this quarry by state police earlier this evening. He was discovered by state trooper David O'Bannon, just after dark. The state police are mounting an investigation to determine Byers' cause of death. But an initial inquiry... *few indistinct words* suggests that foul play was involved. Will Byers was a 7th grader at Hawkins Middle School. He was reported missing on Monday morning by his mother. Now, Byers isn't the first person to drown in Sattlers Quarry, if you'll recall, only 7 years ago--"

Now, I have tried and tried, but even still now, I cannot discern what was said after "But an initial inquiry...", because Ted interrupts and it muddles up his words with the reporter's, to the point where I can't discern it well enough. I think I hear the word media somewhere in there?

As far as I know, no one has talked about this, at least not enough for it to even be mentioned on the Stranger Things Wiki timeline.

I legit checked the timeline while making this post, hoping to find it, and hopefully anything else that might have occurred that year.

TW: byler

Okay. Cool. It appears, according to Wiki at least, nothing substantial happened in the year 1976, other than the fact that it was the year Mike and Will met on the swings in kindergarten. I assume that would've been in August/September of 1976? Then this drowning at Sattlers Quarry would've been on Nov. 7th, 1976, a few months later (and 7 years before Will's 'vanishing')?

I always thought it was interesting that they said kindergarten specifically. Like kindergarten? That's such a cliche in and of itself. But what if that was the point? To make it something we heard and then just went with, but in reality they're giving us a hint? (Will and Mike would've been five years old in 1976).

I do think that the mention of something happening, exactly 7 years prior, to the day...? Like that's really odd? Not only is it connected to Will because it's the day he went missing, but also... 'it was a seven'?

Though, I feel like if it had to do with Will specifically, they would have included that (which reminds me, if anyone can transcribe that indiscernible part of the newscast, LMK!)? Also if it was another child even, wouldn't they have mentioned that too? That seems like it would be an important detail?

But then the scene cuts off right there. Like the second the word 'ago' leaves the reporter's mouth, we're suddenly in Mike's basement (interesting...). And so, apparently they were willing to mention this anniversary like event, with the infamous number seven, only to cut it short without any further context for what actually happened 7 years prior?

I guess I would have to rewatch and pay attention to see if there are any other hints that could somehow relate to this occurrence that happened in 1976, but since like I said, no one's really talked about it (correct me if i'm wrong pls!), there isn't anywhere for me to really go from here in regards to that.

But it does make me wonder if this was one of the easter eggs David talked about being all the way back in s1, because like? I just really don't see a reason for it be there at all unless there was a reason?

Specifically in combination with Twelvegate it interests me because, Sattler Quarry was the place that Hawkins lab decided to put Will's fake body (why did they need to go all out in the first place in Will's case??).? Is it possible they were doing something there 7 years ago, related to the lab?

Like this does make me wonder about the whole Will created the upside down theory? I've read some crazy theories over the years about how a lot of what occurs with the supernatural happenings going on in Hawkins, aligns with Will and his emotions at times? For example, there's quite a few times Will sensed the mindflayer before/after something occurred, often related to Mike, and then we'd see Will touching his neck. But it wasn't always like that from what it seemed, and so I never really thought anything of it.

And then s4 happened, and this theory has sort of slowed down after it was 'confirmed' Henry got banished to the upside down by El after the massacre at Hawkins Lab, presumably encountering the mindflayer, before Will?

However, in combination with twelvegate and everything, what if Henry getting banished there also had to do with Will? Because I mean technically speaking, if Will is Twelve, that would mean he was right there in the rainbow room with El that day, only like a few feet away...

What if they were doing wonder-twin shit? Will creation powers combining with El's destruction powers?

It's still unknown why Henry would target Will in the first place, like could it be because it was all Will's creation to begin with?

This also reminded me of the constant imagery of Twelve playing with the red tower in the rainbow room. We see this repeatedly, like a lot. We even see El hung up a drawing of said tower in her room at the lab... Twelve building that red tower reminds me of Flayed Billy's 'we've been building it!'...

TBH I had no idea what the red tower in s4 could possibly mean up to this point. But in the context of Will being Twelve with creation powers, it makes a whole lot more sense. (Is the upside down stuck on the day Will entered it, because the creator showed up and now it's just stuck on create mode? LOL... Wait, but actually???).

I think the only way it would work, is if Will was a unique case, which obviously he would have to be if he created the upside down? Though I'm not so sure I think that Hawkins Lab knows this? Or maybe they do?

TBH I think it's a lot more likely Will has been able to predict some things, for example, Owens keeps talking about how this has been a long time coming, they've been preparing for this. And that took me back to s2 when Will was at Hawkins Lab talking about a storm...? Could that have been Will sensing what was still to come? And was Owens taking notes? Because in the past he had been able to predict some things based on what he saw/how he captures what he sees in his drawings?

I mean Owens was literally rewatching Will's tapes. And there are moments with him that just feel like there's something deeper going on there that we're missing. Quite frankly a lot of the scenes with Will at Hawkins Lab are missing answers, so that in and of itself is, very weird to brush off.

Eery to say the least.

These scenes also remind me of the onlookers El was met with when she arrived at Nina:

I've said recently that Owens and Brenner give off good cop/bad cop vibes, and I still feel that way. However, what I think at this point is that Owens is more focused on the 'cause' aka the US military having the upper-hand against the Soviets aka what he could get out of this monetarily/reputation wise, as like a patriot/war criminal. This would also parallel quite nicely with Paul Reiser's character in Aliens, which is a movie that's heavily inspired ST since the beginning.

Yeah, Owens would rather not hurt people if he doesn't have to, especially if he's not even getting any results out of it. But even still, I think Owens would choose to exploit anyone if it meant getting the results that he is expected to be getting, in the position that he is in.

In contrast to Owens, what Brenner gets out of it appears to be some weird father/daughter bond, manifested from raising El in the lab, which was also manifested by Brenner's weird familial bond with Henry as well.

Notice how Owens refers to Brenner as Martin, like, twice...? He even refers to them as an us? These dudes are colleagues, they are equals. The only difference is Brenner has this weird familial lens guiding his actions, whereas Owens actions are all keeping the goals for their cause in mind. And what even is their cause exactly?

We basically get Owens revealing that Brenner convinced him this was the ONLY way they could do this. Which means there were arguably other options, though this was the plan they went with because Brenner insisted it would work, and now they're having to stick to it.

El was a unique case compared to all the other kids presumably, who were brought there at some point in their childhood. From what I recall, Kali (008) for example, was discovered in London, then abducted and brought to Hawkins lab at a young age, but not infancy. Even in her case, she managed to escape Hawkins Lab before the massacre. And so, it's not like every scenario has to look identical El's in order for it to work, though in Will's case, it would definitely need to be explained in a way that fits with what they've told us so far. Which I agree, would be hard to do.

My guess as of now, is that they came across Will's powers via him being able to predict things with his drawings (rainbowshipgate), and that might have inspired part of Hawkins Labs efforts in the year 79. That scene with Ten and Brenner drawing felt very much like this was their first time doing this, and so it must have been a recent disovery at the time?... Hawkins lab wasn't always like that, even when El was a kid growing up there, like SUPER young, it was a little bit different than the numbers 1-19, shaved head, nightgown 24/7 vibes. That version of Hawkins lab required them gradually getting to that point over the last decade, making discoveries as they went. As far as I could tell, they used to be kind of accepting of letting families in there back in the day, because they came off as more lenient in those times, before they cracked down and started being a lot more secretive, resorting to covering things up almost entirely.

Although I think it's likely they're unaware Will made the upside down itself (if he even did), they know something... There's something about this scene with Brenner and Owens in particular, that's just so downright suspicious, to the point where I don't understand why it's not talked about more.

This scene is from 4x07, right after Owens bitched Brenner out for not getting them any results. And so, what is being alluded to here, is that EVERYTHING we saw in 4x07, essentially what was presumably being presented to us as the real truth, after 6 episodes of us watching everything from El's confused POV, isn't even the whole truth???

Also, notice the tapes. Brenner takes the tape labeled with the day of the massacre, Sept 8th, 1979. However, the shot makes a point to show him almost hesitating. We see like 4 tapes from the month of August, and like 7 tapes already for the month of September, with no more tapes to follow after the 8th (obvs bc the massacre). Apparently it was a busy September. What I find weird is that there were two tapes for the day before the massacre, Sept. 7th, 1979.? There's nothing else I find too suspicious about this shot, besides that, and so I am curious about what this could possibly mean.

"How much time did you skip?"

Why not let the audience see what was skipped? It's almost like whatever they skipped over would be a major spoiler to us? And combined with everything else, I would not be surprised if whatever they didn't let us see had something to do with Twelve aka Will...

I understand your doubt with this theory, because I too struggle with figuring out how exactly it would overlap with our understanding of the story and the presumed timeline that's been presented to us thus far.

However, again, I think that there has to be small details in the story, which are essential to un-cracking this, even despite what the overarching narrative has been leading us to believe and assume up to this point. I also think it requires us being misinformed about some things, because otherwise it would be too easy to figure everything out. I mean look at us rn? They don't want people getting too close to the truth and so they need those barriers in the way stopping people from getting to close to the surprise. They literally depend on us assuming they are stupid to achieve all of this.

And even still, the Duffer's themselves have said that the final season will circle back to s1 to answer things that were never answered, along with David saying there's easter eggs from s1 that will make the ending wonderful, and Noah himself saying the show started with Will and will end with Will... And so, there's gotta be something here.

And honestly, upon some casual rewatching since coming across twelvegate, I've noticed a lot of details that connect Will to Hawkins Lab...

One in particular, is the fact that it's established within the first 5 minutes of the series, that Will lives near Hawkins Lab:

So there are arguably places for this theory to build off of, which already exist in the show...

One explanation in particular that I've seen a lot of fans use as a possibility to explain all of this, is Lonnie.

In s1 he showed up after Will's body was recovered, and he made a remark about how Sattler Quarry had no warning signs around it, and that they should be held accountable. Joyce grew suspicious of his behavior and went through his stuff, discovering that Lonnie only came to sue Sattler to receive a big sum of money.

And so within the context of the show, right off the bat, they are saying that not only did Lonnie make homophobic remarks about Will, treat Joyce like she was crazy, but he also apparently only came back after Will was dead, so that he could get a bunch of money out of it...?

There's been theories about this for years, but this could fit into Will, and now even Henry potentially, being brought to the lab, on the front that it would be treatment for conversion therapy.

The parallels between Will and Henry could be entirely related to the upside down/powers, but I just think the wording of those parallels between them, being tied mostly to Will's queer-coding, makes me very skeptical there's nothing more to it?

And like I said, Hawkins Lab was looking for any excuse to not only find kids with natural powers, but to also exploit anyone that posed as an opportunity to them.

Terry Ives for example, wasn't one of the numbered kids in Hawkins Lab, but she was still involved with others who literally volunteered there, and were put on experimental drugs (also another way Lonnie could have been involved with the Lab), which led to El being abducted with the guise that she died during a miscarriage.

People forget that mind control is Hawkins Labs' specialty. And that they used it for more than just studies and experimentation...

The lab did everything they could to cover up what's happened over the years, when it came to El and Terry especially from what we saw. And so, why wouldn't this apply to other kids?

I remember in s2 when Brenner got replaced, Owens said the everyone involved with the lab previously, was gone, with him insisting he was one of the good ones, practically begging Joyce (and Hopper) to trust him... And yet not even a few episodes later he was telling Jonathan and Nancy that he would stop at nothing to keep the truth from spreading... Nothing.

Which then brings us to the most complex of it all. Memories.

I think that it's possible that memory stealing could be a thing that spans multiple characters, and with an organization that specializes in mind control, with us literally seeing that play with Terry Ives in earlier seasons, and also with El's repressed memories in s4 (with the lab having tapes to bring back those memories), I'm gonna presume it's not out of the realm of possibility that there's more to all of this.

Not saying that it's going to be memory stealing in the most generic way possible. Same with the whole time travel debacle. I don't think how we understand these concepts, based on what we've seen in other media, is going to apply exactly in every shape/form for ST. I think it's going to be a lot more complex and have to fit somehow into our understanding of things in this universe already. Do I think it will be easy? No. But the Duffers have surprised me before so I do think that they are capable of doing it again.

And even still, I only feel comfortable speculating about this, in the cases of the kids and the parents, aka Terry and El, Will (Jonathan?) and Joyce, Hopper and Sarah...

And that's about where my theory starts to get kind of stupid.

If you remember, there was a theory way back in s2, that El, Will and Sarah could have all possibly been connected to Hawkins lab. And it's because they all 3 had similar stuffed animals.

Hopper is also shown to be at Hawkins lab in his flashbacks around the time of his daughter's death in 78 (1 year before the massacre). We also get a parallel shot of this, with Sam Owens in s2 (s/out Sam Owens is evil truthers)

BONUS: Shot of El in s4, in this same staircase in the flashbacks of the lab massacre in 79.

Back in the day, there were theories Sarah's death could've been a cover up, and that perhaps she was targeted by the lab similar to other test subjects. It just so happened that for whatever reason, her case ended differently than the others? Or so we think...?

Now you might be wondering, what could have possibly connected Hopper to Hawkins Lab?

Vietnam.

This is another avenue I could totally see Hawkins Lab recruiting test subjects. I mean, it's not like it's one of the most well known tropes in comic books for a person whose encountered radiation to gain super powers or anything...

I also find it interesting that Hopper’s daughter died of cancer, after having an episode quite similar to Will's, which lead her to losing all her hair. And this happened at Hawkins lab (what we can presume based on the setting), a little bit before the labs whole weird shaved head, crayon drawing renovation..?.

Interesting...

In all honesty, Hopper himself has been keeping secrets. This is something that David Harbour has alluded to since s2, when there were boxes from Hoppers cabin shown, with the one El went through literally being labeled Hawkins Lab.

Not to mention, s4 finally explored and introduced to us how Vietnam affected him and his family, sort of building up this storyline, with flashbacks of Sarah, which we’ve been seeing for like season upon season now? They really like showing us these flashbacks with Sarah for some reason… and I can’t help but feel like that storyline isn’t over. So considering some of the evidence, it feels like there could be something going on there.

Not to mention, at the end of s1, we get this moment where Hopper goes in a government vehicle and what happened is only really alluded to. But why not let us see what they talked about?

It does beg to question, that if a lab managed to convince Hopper his daughter died of cancer... Anything is possible.

I also think Joyce being referred to as crazy/out of her mind by herself, Lonnie, Jonathan and like everyone in town in s1, does make me intrigued by the prospects of s2 sort of covering up whatever facts they gave to us back then, bc like.. idk. There's room there for something to have happened I guess. Like the fact that she even felt an urge to check to see what Lonnie was up to, and found out he was trying to get a bunch of money out of Will's death? Like, was history repeating?

I also love that you mentioned the crayons for Will's birthday, because I actually came across Twelvegate when I was reading about another theory, Rainbowshipgate.

If you haven't read it, RUN!

Basically what it boils down to is how the story about Will getting crayons on his eighth birthday, using those crayons to draw a rainbow spaceship, which Joyce then hung up at Melvald's, even going as far as to apparently show it to every person that came in, saying her son drew it... could have been a hint that connects Will to Hawkins Lab.

In fact, this is something several casual fans have observed and talked about on reddit since s2, comments about how ironic it was that Will drew a rainbow spaceship, when we all know there's another major significance to rainbows in the show, ie the rainbow room at Hawkins Lab...

So it's like, are these the easter eggs David was talking about, or??..

I shit you not, reading everything I could about rainbowshipgate, I got curious and decided to rewatch the Hawkins lab scenes from s4.

I was thinking like, hypothetically, if rainbowshipgate was on track in some way? Couldn't Will be a lab kid?

And so I literally went into rewatching those scenes, looking for a lab kid that could be Will-coded. And I was not disappointed. There Twelve was, giving off major Will Byers vibes, and that's when everything sort of clicked for me and I started posting about it.

Also, for those that don't know, there were theories back in the s3 era at least, where fans were already speculating that Will could be Twelve... Though those same theorists haven't returned to update their observations for s4 (meaning all their evidence predates s4 evidence).

However, what I now personally am leaning towards, is that they are connected.

Because if Will's birthday is March 22nd, then it's possible that anytime throughout that year, someone from Hawkins Lab could have stumbled into Melvald's, observed the drawing, and told other higher ups at the lab about it. Upon a little bit of digging, they discovered this kid lived right in their back fucking yard?? I would not be surprised what lengths they would go through to get that kid. Like come on man, that's too easy!

That's another thing, the Byers' home being like right next to Hawkins Lab is just weird in and of itself? So that could be an easy explanation for how Will attended the lab. It would have likely required it being a secret between Lonnie and maybe Jonathan who found out and had to stay quiet. It also could have played a role in their divorce? Who knows. I do think that they're consistent mention of Will's sexuality/queer-coding as the main topic to come up whenever they talk about Lonnie is really suspect. But that's just a theory for now.

Personally, despite all the evidence, because there is quite a lot, I'm still not entirely confident in regards to all this.

It does make me feel more intrigued by other theories though, like birthdaygate and will having powers. I am like 99% confident in those theories, and so there is this element of appeal in that I feel like stuff we've already speculated about in the fandom before, fits quite nicely into twelvegate.

What I'm honestly excited for is ST5 promotion to start rolling out. As early as production starts, we should start getting some crumbs, and it will only grow exponentially from there!

And that's when all us theorists will have more to work with. Because they'll definitely leave easter eggs and hidden messages within the major promotion they drop. And this time a lot of us will actually be paying attention!! Whatever they leave here and there could have the potential to prove/disapprove theories we've been compiling for months before all of this.

Thank you for the ask!! And sorry again for the delay!

#byler #stranger things #twelvegate #will byers #will byers has powers #will byers theory #stranger things theory #stranger things meta #stranger things 5 #st5 predictions #this is me just spitballing here more than anything...#AGAIN if anyone can manage to transcribe that part of the news report on the night of wills body being found PLEASE IM BEGGING HELP

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lesbianrobin · 2 years ago

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random question but one i can't stop thinking abt. what clips from the show would you choose for a vecna'd steve's "come on baby come on darling" happy memories montage

oh my god amazing question. one thing i will say before we go into this is i don't think steve's would necessarily all be Happy Memories so much as like. why he'd keep fighting. i think so much of steve is his drive to protect others and he would fight for them. so anyway in no particular order of importance:

steve and dustin on the train tracks in s2. one million percent that HAS to be in there.

along that same vein, dustin and steve in the car outside of the snow ball specifically dustin doing his dorky little purr thing.

him and robin singing/collapsing laughing on each other in the bathroom scene. like come on. duh. essential.

in s3 when robin is making another mark on the "you suck" board and she tells him to try being honest before being like "twelve o'clock!" to let him know that girls are coming up to the counter. i would not use that bit BUT the bit immediately after when steve throws his hat off and robin's like you're a whole new man and he does his little shimmy and she rolls her eyes fondly. this one isn't necessary i just love the little shimmy.

assuming all of s4 is fair game, i'd like to throw in him and eddie talking in the upside down, when eddie's telling him that dustin worships him and steve is all like 👉🏻👈🏻☺️

his and dustin's secret bestie handshake in s3.

steve and robin looking at each other like :0 when tammy walked out it's such a perfect demonstration of like their connection and they're both clearly thrilled out of their Minds.

this one is essential: him and robin tied back to back when they're laying in the floor and talking about how robin used to hate him. robin says she'd happily be slinging ice cream with some other schmuck and steve says he liked being her schmuck and it was fun while it lasted and they both smile despite being beaten and hopeless on the cold metal torture chamber floor.... yeah. need that. need those smiles.

steve handing el and max their ice cream cones in s3 when he asks if el is allowed to be there and the girls look at each other and giggle

now let's throw it back to s1. monster hunting trio. when all three of them are standing shoulder to shoulder on the byers' porch. i just want that little snip where jonathan says something and steve and nancy both look at him in perfect sync. the both of them are so important to steve but like i think that's the only onscreen moment that really like... shows how important they all are in each other's stories without the shadow of their relationship drama or other pain hanging over it. yknow? so yeah that bit.

maybe... MAYBE him and nancy flirting and smiling all cute at each other in s1 but only ONLY if this is in an au where stancy isn't even a remote possibility and they are strictly platonic at this point in the story. like i just said i think nancy is important to steve and i think he'll always love her in some way but i would only want to include that in the montage if it's a more platonic/familial love.

i rly would like to have something with erica in there but i can't think of any specific moments that aren't like. them fuckin breaking out of the russian bunker when steve is high out of his mind. so idk fkvjdjcj unfortunately nothing that happens with them together is very uplifting mostly it's stressful and upsetting.

and last but not least i really really want to have something from the lucas/max/dustin/steve/mike s2 tunnel squad. i think protecting his kids is always going to be steve's main priority (fuck you s4 complaints about being the babysitter he would not fucking say that sorry but he loves his children and the duffers can go fuck themselves). as such i think they'd just Have to be a big part of what keeps him fighting. i have a few ideas for this one: 1. them all down in the tunnels, steve looking back at the kids silently before he flicks his lighter and throws it to set them on fire. 2. him doing the Mom Thing in s2 like clapping his hands telling them no they are not going to go in the tunnels as they all complain. or 3. steve saving mike from that vine that wrapped around his ankle. the purpose of this would really be just to show like how much steve loves the kids and that he's fighting for Them when he's fighting for himself.

so yeah that's it i think!!! there may be too many suggestions here and they definitely aren't All necessary but these are just the scenes that i personally would really love to include because i think that putting them all together would really convey steve's priorities and the love he has for the people in his life and how that love motivates him and keeps him fighting.

#asks

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silvertsundere · 7 months ago

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Silver Talks AniManga (14/04/24)

suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper late post this week, not only cause I started a buncha new stuff but I was also traveling on the weekend which cut off a ton of my free time (imas could've been last week but subs were late for a whole week 😒) also GBC and BA might not be on the corresponding sunday post for the ep that aired that week cause of their sub situation. Should be fine for GBC, but I ain't putting up with terrible subs for BA so I'd rather wait a couple days for better ones (even if I could watch the bad ones and understand it no problem)

but anyway, lots of yappin this time around, next week should be a lot more chill

green - new series/new to me blue - finale/completed

Anime

Girls Band Cry Ep1-2

this one is quite the ride for me. when it first got announced I was gonna watch it cause nari is the character designer and I love their art and it's a cute girls show. then it was revealed it was gonna be cg and I changed my mind. then the ep came out and people were praising it so I was like, "ok maybe I could watch despite it being cg". but then I saw a clip where it looked really bad so I was like "oh ok I was right not to watch it nvm" BUT THEN I saw a different clip that looked super good so after some deliberation I decided to watch it anyway and it turns out it's actually REALLY GOOD? like if every cg show was this level of quality I wouldn't be such a hater the op and ed(s) were really good too but they better be when it's a show about a band lol. the real ed (the one from ep2) has all the art done by nari which is super cool ep 2 was really good too, ep 1 had already convinced me to watch all of it, but still nice to see 2 being good as well

The Idolmaster Shiny Colours Ep1-2

while I was watcing GBC I was thinking "man the cg being this good is gonna make SC look even worse" and sadly I was right. Now, it's not terrible mind you but just like the ML anime, coming in the heels of something like the U149 anime which not only was traditionally animated but also had incredible direction with the quality art to back it up, it feels very bland. Luckily for it, it has the imas spice and, repeat it after me, I Am Not Immune To Idols. It's amazing how they get my ass every damn time... It's a shame that my lantica girls already had their episode so early since they're my favourites of the launch units but I'm sure they'll get at least one more at some point, along with a little more screentime every now and then like the others did on ep2 but anyway Ep1 was basically teasing the different units while introducing mano and getting her together with the other two. While ep2 was mostly about lantica with some small bits with the other groups spliced in. After ep1 I thought they weren't going to follow the usual formula of dedicating 1 episode per girl and/or unit but after 2 I'm not sure anymore. There's only 12 eps so if they do 1 ep per unit, while having little bits for the other ones, that would take us up to ep 5/12. We already know that there's gonna be a s2 with straylight and noctchill so we know they're not gonna show up in this season. I guess they could do a wing episode for each of the units which would put us up to 9/12 leaving the remaining episodes for big group episodes with everyone but we'll see.. Also speaking of s2, there's still 2 more units that weren't confirmed for it and since this s1 has 4 units you think it'd make sense for s2 to have 4 units as well. However the 2 units that haven't been confirmed are related to each other, in a way, so I could totally see them doing a s3 with just those units, since I don't think they'll introduce another unit any time soon. But anyway I'm starting to ramble and talking too much about meta. TL;DR: show shouldn't be cg and bandai can damn well afford a traditional show but they're greedy. other than that it's good ofc. like I said with ML, if you like any of the imas anime you'll like this. if you like the game/girls you'll like it as well

Jellyfish Can't Swim in the Night Ep1-2

this got announced around the same time as GBC and I posted about it as well. I was going to watch it just because it was a dogakobo original and I like the studio and it seemed like a nice cute girls show. As the season came closer I wasn't sure about watching it anymore but was thinking of giving it the good ol 3 episode rule just out of respect to dogakobo. When it did start, something had happened that caused me to change my mind and decide that I wasn't going to watch it. I don't remember what it was anymore but anyway. However my buddy mega did watch it and said it was really good so I decided to give it a shot like originally planned and... it's really good too. The mains being takarie and mikku is a rare combo but very welcome and the show also has that characteristic dogakobo polish to it and the direction is very good as well. I also appreciate the yuri vibes but I'm me so yknow ep 2 was nice as well, both the op and ed are good, and kimura might be a little freak but she's fun. I guess the next episode will be dedicated to the vtuber girl but we'll see

Kaiju 8 Ep1

that was a solid first ep, there wasn't anything too impressive to show off so I guess we'll see how it goes in the next episode, but it looked good enough that I'm not too worried about it. shame it's only 1 cour but I'm sure they're planning on adapting it all since the manga is almost over too it'll be nice revisiting these early parts of the story, it wasn't that long ago that I caught up but it's been long enough because it's not weekly that I don't remember the early parts with that much clarity but yeah, ep was nice, good voices, good music, good art (for the most part I thought some shots of mina looked off) and the animation wasn't bad either. if they keep up this quality until the end it'll be a respectable adaptation but I hope they at least give us some sakuga crumbs during the big iconic scenes

Manga

Astro Royale Ch1

tokyo revengers' wakui ken as left kodansha to come to shueisha with this new series and you can really tell it's the work of a veteran author I didn't know what to expect since I never read/watched TR, outside of seeing some clips and caps here and there, but this was actually really good. the setting and the characters were all set up very well, along with the main trigger that sets off the story. really great use of spread pages as well I've been saying for ages that wsj needs a new hit with some of their biggest hitters ending soon and they seem to think so too since no recent series have really popped off (except kagurabachi [the power of memes]) so they decided to grab another veteran (there's a bunch more in the mag currently). We'll have to see the next handful of chaps but just from this debut I can see this series having the potential to be a hit for sure. I've been doing this long enough that I got a pretty good intuition for this kinda stuff, tho there's always exceptions like me thinking red hood would last and that nue would get axed but I'm usually right for the most part.. anyway the series seems like it'll be fun so looking forward to it, I know people complain that TR went downhill after a certain point but this isn't TR so no point comparing this to it on chapter 1. just trust that the author learned his lesson from whatever went wrong with TR and enjoy the series for what it is, not like it's a sequel or something

Two on Ice Ch28 (Finale)

well that's over and I don't really got much to say tbh I don't really care about skating so I wasn't interested in this from the beggining and the artist didn't do a great job showing it off either. it was informative but not engaging. there were a few good panels/pages but a lot of big spreads got wasted with tons of expostion instead of showing off the art. I also didn't care about the "villain" at all despite how much the artist loved and pushed him still not one of the worst things I've read on jump that's for sure, just not for me and not interesting enough for me to change my mind and care about. an opposite example of this would be blue box which is a romance series and I thought I wouldn't like it when I started catching up to it and ended up loving it cause it's a lot more engaging

#silver talks animanga

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mdhwrites · 1 year ago

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So I know you adore Amphibia, have flaws with Owl House, and only saw the first episode and three parter series finale for Gravity Falls, but ever see the other two of the big 5 story driven Disney cartoons with DuckTales 2017 and Star vs the Forces of Evil? Thoughts on them?

I don't think I've EVER seen an episode of Ducktales. It looks like a lot of fun from the clips I've seen, just never have happened into watching any or getting sat down to watch it. Also in general, I'm slow about watching television, even if I'm trying to get better about trying new media.

Star Vs. I believe went that I saw the first season with my brother, enjoyed it, was REALLY rooting for Marco and Jackie because I think their relationship was honestly really cute and I thought they had way better chemistry than Star and Marco, watched a little of S2 and then my busy life and depression made me drop off. Then my brother told me about the clusterfuck that show becomes and the BS ending to Marco and Jackie's relationship and any interest in picking it back up died there.

I don't really have any critical thoughts about Star Vs. It's a very good concept for what many would perceive as a reverse isekai, an other worldly being coming to us, with lots of charm and fun in the time I spent with it. I think the biggest issue I had with it was that while it was fun, I didn't ever really grab onto anyone besides Marco. Star is a little too brain dead at times, a lot of the side characters are either underutilized or kind of boring/annoying to me (I straight up did not like Pony Head because she's just not the sort of character I usually like as an example.) None of it was actually bad, a lot of it came down to personal taste and that's okay, kind of like how personal taste made me bounce off of Steven Universe pretty hard when I tried an episode of it.

I think, and this might not be comprehensive, that if you want a full list of shows I've seen in the past seven years, since there were a few years where I didn't watch anything, it would be: One Punch Man S1

My Hero Academia S1-3

Wednesday

The Owl House

Amphibia

The Ghost and Molly McGee S1

A good chunk of Komi Can't Communicate, at least S1

...And that might be it? When I moved out of my parent's place, I kind of just stopped watching most stuff. Part of that was being busy, part of that is that I tend to overthink stuff when I watch professionally scripted content so I prefer streams and Youtube. There's also stuff I've probably seen an episode or two of here and there, especially when I last lived with my parents for half a year, but nothing I stuck with too well. It's kind of why I want some recommendations for what to watch now that I've finished Amphibia, or what might be coming out soon because honestly I'd LOVE to join at the start of a fandom and hope that helps motivate me to get more writing done.

Sorry for the potentially disappointing answer admittedly. I'm trying to do more, get my brain to be okay with sitting for 20 minutes like that and chill, but it'll be a process after so long.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

And finally a Twitter you can follow too!

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wxtchpilot · 1 year ago

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[ Spent my time finishing this video ahaaaaa. Will upload to Youtube eventually since I might change some stuff but otherwise, pretty certain this is the final product.

Song: Am I Dreaming Artists: Metro Boomin, A$AP Rocky, Roisee

I probably should have started from the beginning of the song but it was nothing but instrumentals and I had a hard time figuring out what clips to use (since I wanted to primarily use S2 scenes in contrast to my other video being only S1 scenes, even if that was because S2 wasn't out yet).

Thought of what I COULD have done during those instrumental parts in the beginning but it probably would mess the whole groove up so dhnffj, choosing against it. I tried really hard to use specific scenes I thought that fit, didn't want to use subs at every point either. I made the transitions change depending on how the backing instrumentals were like but a part of me is like "man people probably will find this video a mess aha". I was just imagining too many things at once.

ANYWAY ENOUGH RAMBLING. Thanks if you take the time to look at it. ♥ ]

#OOC #[ I at least wanted to finish this today since I was so close #ramblings are under the cut so yeah aha. Thanks ^^ ]

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blocksruinedme · 2 years ago

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Something big is happening in Empires & Hermitcraft. Let's discuss! Specifically, Grian, Smallishbeans, LDshadowlady and Fwhip's episodes the week of October 9, 2022. I've clipped all the relevant scenes down below. I'm very interested in corrections and commentary!

[Note: They all ended their episodes at a portal with weird stuff happening, so if you're looking to check videos for rift lore, maybe skip to the ends.]

- October 9 - Grian finds a button in front of his Hermitcraft rift. It says "Begin?" Grumbot[1] gives him a message that says "Push the button". He tries not to, but eventually gives in. (This is typical Grian behavior.) (HC 9: Ep 23)

- October 11 - Lizzie finds a portal on Empires that bears some suspicious resemblance to Grian's rift. Hoping she might get crystals, she sends a fox named Gary through on a minecart to investigate, and bring back "lots of crystals, the shinier the better". They hit the portal, Gary goes through, the minecart doesn't. (Is Gary a modded villager? That's lizzie's thing?) (Empires s2, Ep 11)

- October 13

(1) Joel spies the portal from his bridge, having heard about it already. He says he'll send something through because Lizzie already did. He sends one of his Jimmy dolls - it's important to remember the doll is named "Smallishbeans's Head". There's no minecart, he just chucks it in. (Empires s2, ep 19) (2) Fwhip hears an explosion and finds the portal, decides to not engage with any of it. Later, Lizzie comes to Fwhip for help rescuing Gary, and they send Fwhip's creature, "Sniff, Explorer of the Deep", through the portal on a minecart to get Gary. I have no idea what kind of creature Sniff is. Some modded goblin horse I get. Snort's older brother. idk. (Empires S2 : Building a GOBLIN LAVA FORGE, because he can't be bothered to use episode numbers I guess?)

Maybe it's not Grian's rift, maybe Hermitcraft and Empires aren't connected, but that would be WILD. If you don't know, Grian is IRL friends with Lizzie and Joel, so them collaborating makes a lot of sense. Sausage is having big flashbacks to Empires s1 and Afterlife SMP. Gem and FalseSymmetry are in both Empires & Hermitcraft, and False's plot is about having woken up in a strange place. Pearl is in Hermitcraft, and was in Empires s1, and there's deep lore about her that I'm not caught up on, but she already exists between series, she sent Oli (theorionsound) from Afterlife SMP to Empires season 2, from her base in the sky. She's been Watching everything! She's a Saint? A Goddess? (I am going to catch up, I only finished emp1 this month.) And I'm told her afterlife/empires sky base is her hermitcraft s8 base.

The Jimmy toy looks like Jimmy and has Joel's name. Their Double Life soulmates are in Hermitcraft. I saw a comic once that had Tango finding a Jimmy doll and it feeling familiar. Thus, I am now insane and will be at least until empires s2 is over, probably forever.

Here's some videos and some transcripts, but I've been at this two hours and I'm not transcribing them all, sorry!

(I will hopefully keep updating as things develop, but no promises. Probably with less transcription. I'll tag them all #mcyt crossover, because who knows how deep this will go.)

youtube

Joel transcript, at 13:26 - Joel spies the portal. "and whilst we're here, look at that. that's lore right there. weird lore stuff's happening on the server guys. what is it? I don't know. But I saw that Lizzie put something in it, so we should go put something in it as well. So what better than this little toy man here? Well, the toy version of the toy man. Have fun little toy-- oh, it's missed. Let's try again." [toy name says "Smallishbeans's Head"] "Have fun little toy man! And just like that, he's gone. I hope he's okay, but if he's not okay, then that's fine as well to be honest.

Fwhip transcript

11:57 - Fwhip says Jimmy is toying with his heart. </3

12:00 - Fwhip hears an explosion. "What? Bridge? What is (x3) that? I'm sorry but this is brand new. How did this pop up here out of the wall? [confused goblin noises] You know what, if I've learned anything being underground in the goblin cavern it's don't dig where you're not supposed to be digging. I'm going to be leaving that as if I've never saw it [things about copper and cave safety] spooky things are happening".

15:30 - (too long to transcribe) Lizzie blows the emergency horn, says there's a situation with Gary, the greatest explorer who ever lived in Animalia. She's upset that Gary hasn't come back, Fwhip tells her that he heard an explosion earlier, Lizzie is more upset, wants a rescue mission. Fwhip says his empire's greatest explorer, "Sniff, Explorer of the Deep" has just returned home, [they laugh heartily]. Lizzie takes Fwhip and Sniff to the "crystal cave". Fwhip says maybe Gary did the explosion. Lizzie says Gary had a very specific mission (get crystals) and he'd never stray from the mission protocols. They tell Sniff to find and bring back Gary. Sniff spins around a lot, because he's excited for a job. They put him on a minecart, Lizzie makes a Harry Potter reference (which she and Joel do all the time), and the episode cuts right there, no outro.

Time stamped links to the original videos (give them a like!):

Joel https://youtu.be/rUmWjXaJGcw?t=805

Lizzie: https://youtu.be/bunhaERjxmE?t=533 Fwhip: https://youtu.be/jI3bYNJXuVs?t=717 (second part is at 15:30)

Grian: it's the whole episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onsbmy3r70g

[1] Grumbot is... in HC s7 Grian and Mumbo he made a robot son to help Mumbo win the mayoral election, then they lied to him and sai that he won, and put him in a (nice) box. Now there's a grumbot here and maybe he's from an AU and he says creepy things like "My Grian was sorry too" and I've only watched bits of all this.

#mcyt crossover #hermitcraft #hermitcraft s9 #grian #grian's rift #grumbot #ldshadowlady #fwhip #smallishbeans #empires s2 #empiresblr #empires fwhip #empires joel #empires lizzie #empires season 2 #empires smp #hermitblr

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freakygirlie · 4 years ago

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Would you mind telling us your favourite tinhat moment or your favourite tinhat theory, or both? Talking about J2 is my happy place <3

Talking about j2 is my happy place too anon! and ofcourse but lord there are so! many! I'll go with both moments and theories jsjhfjf and i'll mention a couple of faves: Favorite j2 tinhat moments: this hug at jib con will always always be a fave! Jensen wearing the AKF merch, and the way he just brings Jared towards him into a hug, GOD HIS EXPRESSION THE PROTECTIVENESS ON HIS FACE, the way Jared leans into it MY HEART. Also this con was very noteworthy in tinhat history because of how Jackles shaded G and Jared's marriage so kjdjfdjfjmccncm mmhm yeah.

THE RECENT SHIRTLESS BEARD UPDATE PANEL MOMENT!!! LIKE HELLO FIRST OFF U SEND BEARD UPDATES TO EACH OTHER WTFFFF SO CUTE!!! If my man don’t do the same i don’t want him <3 AND JENSEN IS SHIRTLESS, HE IS EFFING SHIRTLESS IN IT I CANNOT.

Them getting matching tattoos and brandishing them everywhere so proudly!!! Especially in Walker we can see that Jared has no reserves of hiding it. He shows it so much it makes my heart go BOOM.

Them having this little moment, God the feels here. I literally just talked about it in my previous ask but other than the finger touch, they’re looking so fondly at each other!!! Jared playing the guitar, Jensen singing HELPPP THE FEELS.

the heart eyes will always always always be a favorite of mine <3

and we really cannot forget this beautiful moment, this clip at a con of a very affectionate and cute hand touch between the j’s, this is not only the most prettiest, softest thing ever but BUT is also the iconic thing that! dun dun TURNED ME TINHAT!!!! That’s right! this little innocent thing was the one that convinced me and I’ve been here ever since!!!<3

(for some damned reason tumblr won’t let me attach the gif but here’s a sc tweet i recently made of it on twitter)

ANOTHER REALLY CUTE MOMENT:

ALL THESE MOMENTS ARE SO BEAUTIFUL TO ME AND I HAVE QUITE A FEW OTHERS. Another very very notable mentions is ALL THE TIMES JARED BROUGHT UP JENSEN IN HIS INTERVIEWS HE DID FOR WALKER LIKE???? BOY COULD NOT STOP. HELLO??? HE IS SMITTEN BEYOND COMPREHENSION.

now for theories! ok so there are A BUNCH OF THEM but i think one of my fav’s is the one regarding the relationship timeline: they fell in love in s1, sort of ish got together ish in s2 and really solidified their relationship in s3 when Jared’s breakdown happened. They went through a lot together and came out so united and with each other in the end my sweet heart GOD.

The mortgage theory IS CLASSIC AND SO INTERESTING AND SUS LIKE HOW MANY TIMES DID THEY CHANGE THIS NARRATIVE JBHDJJKDSLA

And this might not count as a theory thing but my favorite thing that I’ve heard/deduced/seen is how j2 helped each other evolve as people. Jensen was so shy in the beginning and Jared helped him come out of his shell and be more open and extroverted. Jensen helped Jared through his hard times, his mental health troubles and still continues to do so, he helped him accept/fight it and be open as well and it is just the sweetest most frigging adorable beautiful thing ever. I love these two so much <3

Another favorite theory(this is true idc idc)- All Our Own was written for Jared.

THANK YOU FOR THIS ASK ANON I HAD SO MUCH FUN ANSWERING IT<3

#anon ask #j2 tinhat #my fav things #<3

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thegeminisage · 4 years ago

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birthday meta for the birthday boy <3

[this version of the meta is behind a cut. if you’d prefer the no-cut version, it’s here.]

a fun little fanon from Ye Olde Days of spn (when seasons 1-5 were airing) was that sam always had the absolute worst birthdays. a big part of this is because sam’s birthday is in may. supernatural tends to align itself with “real time,” meaning that they like to use either the date the episode was filmed or the date it aired as the in-universe date, even when two canon dates conflict each other. (they’re so intent on doing this that they pretended the gap years between s5 & s6 and s7 & s8 right out of existence - season openers also usually tend to pick up right after season finales in-universe but still somehow be set several months later.) that means sam’s birthday tends to line up with the airdates on either season finales or episodes right before the finales, which means that every time sam gets a year old, shit hits the fan.

here’s a list of things that did happen or could have happened on some of sam's birthdays:

0-22: we don’t have much in the way as far as concrete dates go for preseries stuff, but it’s perfectly possible sam walked out all that bullshit the day he turned 18, even if i prefer to think he left at age 19 as that aligns rather tragically with some adam-related canon.

23: we don’t have any dates for the end of s1/opening of s2 either, but it’s likely that sam’s birthday took place between 1.20 (dead man’s blood) and 2.01 (in my time of dying). he could have been doing anything from hunting vampires to saving one of YED’s special children to almost shooting his possessed father to getting hit by a semi to using a ouija board to talk to his not-quite-dead brother.

24: here’s where the real fun starts >:) sam died in cold oak in 2.21 (all breaks loose pt 1) and in the episode he says he’s 23. but according to the lore (extra-canonical material), dean made the deal to bring him back on his 24th birthday...

25: ...which means that on his 25th birthday, he was forced to watch dean get dragged to hell...

25b: ...except that sam had TWO 25th birthdays, because mystery spot took place in february, and sam lived in an alternate timeline where dean stayed dead for 6 months, putting him well past may 2nd. which meant that the first time he turned 25, he was actually getting tortured by gabriel. while his brother was getting tortured (or torturing someone else) in hell.

26: 4.20 (the rapture) took place in very late april/very early may (the wiki says may 3, but that’s just a guess), and 4.21 (when the levee breaks) picks up immediately where it left off. so it’s not only plausible but EXTREMELY LIKELY that sam was locked up in the panic room suffering withdrawals when he turned 26, dude

26b: ...except that in 11.17 (safe house), bobby and rufus’s half of the episode presumably takes place at the same time during season 4, and he mentions sam and dean are in reno?? so you know they could have been doing that instead.

27: we have no hard and fast dates for the end of season 5, but it’s my personal headcanon that sam’s birthday took place during 5.22 (swan song), and he beat the devil and leapt into hell on the day he turned 27 - because at this point, why not. however, his birthday could also have taken place during either 5.20 (the devil you know) or 5.21 (two minutes to midnight), meaning he was reconfronting his old college pal who turned out to be a demon brady, or helping bobby and a human cas destroy the factory with the croatoan virus.

28: there’s a gap year between s5 and s6, so sam’s 28th birthday took place while he was soulless, hunting with the campbell family...

28b: ...except spn likes to say “a year passed” without adding one to the calendar, so sam ALSO had a 28th birthday during the airing of s6. there’s some conflicting information about s6′s timeline, so this could have happened anywhere from 6.18 (frontierland) to 6.21 (let it bleed). sam could have been doing anything from time traveling to fighting eve to grappling with cas going dark side to rescuing lisa and ben.

29: sam’s 29th birthday almost definitely took place during 7.20 (the girl with the dungeons and dragons tattoo), during which he met charlie. in case you’ve forgotten, that was actually a great day for him - in a moment of true little brother antics and justifiable homophobia, he got to laugh at dean gay flirting with the security guard.

30: there was another gap year between s7 and s8, which means that sam spent the big three-oh with amelia richardson while dean and cas were in purgatory. he got to have a picnic!

30b: ...but since spn ignores gap years, sam ALSO had a 30th birthday during s8 (a big season for him). there isn’t an exact date for the episodes leading up to the finale, which takes place in late may, after sam’s birthday, so his birthday could have taken place in either 8.21 (the great escapist), where he nearly died of his trial-induced fever and confessed to dean that he always felt unclean, or during 8.22 (clip show), where he met sarah blake again after nearly a decade, only to have her die right in front of him.

31: the s9 timeline is pretty vague, but the best guess for this one is 9.18 (meta fiction), in which sam finally gets to confront gadreel, the angel who possessed him and killed kevin with his hands

32: the s10 timeline is also short on dates, so sam’s birthday could have taken place anywhere between 10.16 (paint it black) and 10.21 (dark dynasty). a few possible things sam could have been doing: dealing with a hunt involving soulless people, helping cas and bobby break metatron out of heaven’s prison, catching up with charlie and giving rowena the book of the damned, battling the cursed werther house (don’t click that unless you’ve seen the episode, the twist is TOO good), reuniting claire with her mom, or building charlie’s pyre.

33: the last quarter or so of s11 happens really quickly sequentially, every episode picking up soon after the last one left off, which means that sam’s birthday either took place at the very end of the season or the beginning of s12. it’s most likely he turned 33 either the day dean saved the sun and sam himself got shot and kidnapped by toni bevell, or a few days later when he was being held captive and tortured in her basement.

34: unfortunately, sam’s 34th birthday almost definitely took place during 12.21 (there’s something about mary). i was really hoping it’d be 12.22 so he could be kicking the bmol’s asses, learning lucifer was back, and hugging mary, but no...instead he was mostly likely learning that ketch had had eileen killed.

35: because of some weird canon, the timeline for season 13 is actually batshit insane and makes no sense whatsoever, which means sam’s birthday is really early this season - either during 13.17 (the thing) where he rescues his brother from a frisky tentacle monster or 13.18 (bring ‘em back alive) where he hangs out with gabriel and cas in the bunker. since that’s garbage, you’d be forgiven for ignoring canon and pretending sam’s birthday fell on one of the following episodes - 13.19 (funeralia) is very touching, as he and rowena clash and then make up with each other; 13.21 (beat the devil) has sam capturing lucifer, then dying and getting revived and captured by him; 13.22 has sam getting a little revenge by leaving lucifer for dead; 13.23, of course, has lucifer finally dying for good.

36: there’s no dates whatsoever on the back half of s14, so theoretically sam’s birthday could take place in any episode after 14.13 (lebanon). the likeliest and COOLEST candidate is for sam to turn 36 during 14.20, in which he shoots god himself point blank. other admittedly inferior scenarios include his stint as justin the 50s househusband, mary’s death, or putting jack in the ma’lak box.

37: we saw this birthday happen onscreen during 15.14 (last holiday) at a party thrown by mrs. butters. unfortunately, not too long after that, she wound up torturing him by pulling out his fingernails.

38: that’s this year! because the timeline of s15 is also so weird and vague, partially fucked up by covid changing the shooting/airing times, and because sam’s birthday is SO early in s15, it’s possible that he has another one this season, right at the end, or maybe post-canon, which means............................................

...................................................that he’s spending it with dean and jack and the newly revived eileen and cas, in the bunker or somewhere else he feels safe and loved :)

happy birthday, sam winchester <3 after all the unhappy ones...u deserve it

[spn masterpost]

#sam winchester #supernatural #liz's meta #liz's spn stuff #long post #never in my life have i had to fight so hard to post a meta #tumblr tried to delete this TWO TIMES

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kaypeace21 · 4 years ago

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Possible theories about the teaser

#1 theory) it's a nightmare/ el ptsd flashback of what happened to the other numbers. And they died. In the s4 trailer brenner says to the other numbers "today i have very special plans for you." In s1 brenner tells el " today is a very special day. Because today we make contact (with the demogorgan/upsidedown)." And so the initial teaser for this trailer with the bloodbath could show it didn't go well. And that's why el was kept isolated from the other kids... there just were no other numbers left!!!!! In a s4 film hellraiser 2 the psychiatrist used patients to open a portal to another world which usually k*lled them so maybe el was locked away in her room for not obeying brenner like in the past- and just heard what happened with the door closed? .The last clip could be unrelated to the first scene of Brenner/the numbers- so el opening her eyes with a possible buzzcut & audio of brenner asking if she was listening/el hyperventilating could be from several diff eps of the present day and not even connected to one another.

audio of Brenner saying "eleven are you listening " could be a call back to how billy (when hurting someone) sensed El spying in the present day- and then el hyperventilates when billy sees her and acknowledges her presence. Sort of like the trailer.

In quite a few movies on the s4 list the m*rder victims had numbers carved on them- its possible they were dumped in Hawkins woods/quary years ago (aka lucas saying it wasn’t Will but another kid in the quary could be foreshadowing). And that causes all the paranoia/satanic panic in Hawkins. Because the catalyst for satanic panic of a small town-in one film was finding children dead in the woods and river (paradise lost).its possible someone comes across their bodies in Hawkins woods years after they were dumped/burried there?

El later probably tracks brenner down at penthurst with her tracking powers (after Kali asks her to) cause El may want to prevent another tragedy if she suspects he is starting up a new program . Kali even asked El in s2 for El to “face their father and heal their wounds together”. Pic Brenner’s actor (matthew modine) posted pre s3.

I think el has all her powers except telekinesis. El/kali team up and maybe sneak into pethurst facility (like in ace Ventura -people posing as siblings investigate a m*rder and one fakes being ‘crazy’ to sneak in to the psych facility and find a murderer) . In hellraiser 2 it was a real psych facility -but the basement was where the evil dr did his secret experiments unbeknownst to the other staff members. In ‘peanut butter solution’ 2 kids - 1 of them is goth/not american teams up with a girl to find a man named ‘senior ‘ who is kidnapping kids for their powers. That character snuck into the senior’s place to find their friend/sibling (maybe Will?? based off some foreshadowing/that bts pic of the noah look alike ...idk it’s possible). Also wtf is 12 if not maybe Will?

The one who sneaks in starts calling senior “dad” (like papa) to trick him into thinking they trust him. Kali already busted Dottie out of a psych hospital (so she may help El do the same) and lucas referenced El being at pethurst in s1 where she had never been - but the facility has been shown in s4 bts pics. Alexi in s3 even watches roadrunner- -in that “papa bear” throws him in a psych facility. So I think someone will be captured by Brenner (accidental or otherwise)- most likely el to save new experiments/ maybe Will.

Her appearing to have a buzzcut at the end of the trailer may be a shot from a diff episode when captured again-possibly in the upsidedown/void on Brenner’s request?

Other alternative possibilities/theories

#2 theory ) it could be something in the present day? but cut scenes/audio are once again meshed together to confuse us. This could be how s4 ends -on a ominous cliffhanger-with El and Will captured (and their futures undecided). And Brenner saying a line reminiscent to s1- which was what caused the portal to the upsidedown to open in the first place.

“TODAY we make contact...or maybe TOMORROW?” Could be a hint this scene in the s4 teaser is a cliffhanger ending . He says at the end of s4 “today is a very special day” cause of his plans to make contact again. But we have to wait for s5- to see them make contact again.There’s also only 2 teens who’s faces are obscured (everyone else is little kids). Like the older guy playing chess could be Will hard to say (it’s an older male teen - with an adam’s apple- and moles -similar to noah). And the only other teen is across from him and looks female. Will likes board games- and the older teen across from him could be el. in s4 bts people thought they saw millie (with her leg scar) and Noah at pethurst both wearing the lab gowns from the trailer. And the shot of the rooms 11 (and the room next to it - could be labeled 12 -since in another shot we saw a diff door from a diff hallway’s than El’s -say 10). If the door right next to her’s isn’t 10- well it may be 12. The other numbers could just be reused after the originals died/ escaped/ the hawkins lab program was forced to shut down (and brenner captured new kids in those 3 years El left -like starting from scratch back to 1-10 -and El and Will are 11 and 12 since they’re captured at the end). That could also explain why the rainbow room looks so different than the one in s2′s hawkins lab flashbacks-cause it’s at a new facility at pethurst. The real pethurst (from Pennsylvania) not the one in st/indianna was infamous for human rights ab*ses which is why it was shut down in the 80s. Not to mention how in s1/2 the lab was watching El/Will in the same way -and it was hinted Brenner suspected Will had powers.The Will ST comic- referenced ‘house of stairs’ (Will throws that book at the demogorgan) .It involved a gay male teen (in love with his childhood bff) and a gal with buzzcut -being kidnapped and thrown in the facility by an evil psychiatrist who is trying to make the teens into weapons for the government. And the “into the fire” st comic had a fire wielding character with mental health issues (cough Will the wise- having fire powers/ penthurst being a psych facility) . She was stuck in Brenner’s facility- and escapes using her fire powers. So I think it’s pretty likely it’s Will.And probably El too who go to Pethurst, where Brenner is.

#3) it's a flashback from Kali-like how el used her powers to see Terry and Billy's traumatic memories. However the way its shot is very crisp and clean. Terry's memories were blurry around the edges, or in parts of the void, or choppy memories blended together in a fast sequence. Billy's were also choppy/blended together in fast sequence and also in the upsidedown/void. But it could be a hint certain powers are getting stronger without her telekinesis? It could show how kali escaped - maybe an allusion of a bloodbath was used as a distraction? Kali said she escaped when el dissapeared from the rainbow room -and el appears to be isolated from the room.but idk since everyone has buzzcuts which kali didn't have in her 2 flashbacks (or heck in the comic the 3 other numbers-including the male/female teens who escaped had all their hair too)- what was the catalyst for the haircuts if not someone or multiple girls escaping? So would the teaser be post-kali’s escape? We may see kali flashbacks but that footage may not be from this teaser? I feel the theory of 1 or 2/a combo of 1 and 2 are the most likely. Kali may even try to rescue them with the help of others in s5/4

Personally, whatever happens, I still feel like we’ll see BOTH flashbacks of the lab- and El and Will captured by Brenner at Pethurst.

#el hopper #stranger things #kali prasad #will byers #martin brenner #stranger things theory

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flodaya · 3 years ago

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Not to kiss skam españa's ass, but i just can't avoid comparing how well they treated the "being ashamed of your queerness" compared to Druck s7. Lucas going from being ashamed of it, dressing like his friends in order to be "one of the boys", and the way his wardrobe changed during s2 when he came out and became himself. Meanwhile now, on episode 4, we are discovering that Ismail, who never showed any shame around it, is in fact ashamed and is a bully because he wants to be "one of the boys"

one good clip and i want to defend druck again

no but for real, lucas arc in s1-3 top tier, amazing story telling, and then eskam goes and uses him for one of my least favourite storylines in the entire skamverse in s4, cursed, the skamverse hates me

okay about druck, i totally get what you mean but i only partially agree here: it totally sucks that it's taken 4 episodes for us to know ismail's relationship to gender and their gender identity but i wouldn't say this completely goes against previous seasons? like i doubt ismail doesn't know he is queer so i would assume they think they are cis man who enjoys dressing feminine and wearing make-up etc. but they are now starting to realize they aren't a cis man? like that would make sense in the context of previous seasons and it could be a really good character arc, so the struggle might not come from the way they dress but rather they are starting to realize they are uncomfortable being pushed into the binary male gender and that this is what they are struggling with (don't know if i would call it shame yet tbh, so far he seemed sad and uncomfortable more than ashamed)

and as much as i get why you compare it to lucas, i just don't think the cis effeminate mlm and the non-binary/trans experience is the same

as for the bully thing, yeah, idk, not a big fan of that line either especially because ismail has been a bully just one year ago?? like the new writers completely ignore the fact that isi and continent posted those awful memes about the cashqueens last november. in general the apology, while an emotional scene on its own, in the context of everything else was weak and not efficient in the slightest

i hope this makes sense, i just want to believe that at least this storyline can be handled well at the end because there is so little nb rep out there (literally zero in the skamverse) and i just hope druck can do this somewhat decently

#ask #druck season 7 #my posts

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strangerthings4theories · 3 years ago

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Katabasis and Anabasis: Billy Is The God-King Who Dies and Lives Again, Pt. 1

I’ve already offered evidence that Billy is a Christ figure. Mythologically speaking, the story of Christ fits into a larger tradition - that of the god-king who dies and lives again. This is an ancient mytheme that occurs over and over in wildly disparate cultures. It just really speaks to us for some reason, no matter where we’re from. If you want to tell a story that packs a punch, you can’t go wrong by tapping into this ancient myth.

With Billy, the Duffers have done precisely that. (Intentionally, imo.)

Proving it will take some work, so I hope you’re ready. ;) In this post, I’ll explore the extensive king symbolism that Billy has already been given. In my second post, I’ll explore his extensive god symbolism. In the third, I’ll explain the concepts of katabasis and anabasis and show how they apply to Billy.

>>In S2, Billy is a king in the making.

Billy may be a scruffy street rat when we meet him, but he has grand ambitions. From the second he struts into S2, he’s shown as having one primary goal: replace Steve Harrington as “King of Hawkins High.” He constantly stabs Steve in the back, undermines his manhood, and claims superiority in everything from playing sports to bedding women. And he does so with startling intensity.

We need only a handful of scenes to see this dynamic in action.

In our first scene with Billy and Steve, Billy’s just beaten the school’s keg record. “We have a new Keg King!” proclaims Tommy, Steve’s former hype-man. As the crowd chants Billy’s name, Billy struts inside, where he catches sight of Steve across the room. He then approaches him, climbing up onto a symbolic royal dais to present himself as a challenger to the throne. “We have a new Keg King, Harrington,” Tommy crows, informing us that the record Billy broke was Steve’s.

Old King, meet the new King.

In their next scene, they’re playing basketball, literally competing with one another. Billy seizes the chance to taunt Steve. “Harrington, right? I heard you used to run this school. […] Then you turned bitch.” He punctuates his taunt by shoving Steve to the ground and scoring a basket.

Undermine Steve’s manhood? Check. Imply his days as king are over? Check. Show him you’re gonna take his place? Check.

As if to emphasize the point - that Billy’s after Steve’s crown - the Duffers give us another basketball scene, this time with “Push It To The Limit” as the soundtrack. Here Billy taunts Steve by asking, “What? You afraid the coach is gonna bench you now that I’m here?” Then he shoves Steve down again, scores another basket, and comes back with an outstretched hand, presumably to help Steve to his feet.

Not so. He just wants to undermine Steve further by suggesting he's incompetent.

“You were moving your feet,” he says. “Plant them next time. Draw a charge.” With that, he shoves Steve down a third time and walks away.

In the shower scene that follows, Billy offers a superficial olive branch, except it’s patronizing and dripping with disdain. “Don’t take it too hard, man,” he says of Steve’s breakup with Nancy. “Pretty boy like you’s got nothing to worry about. Plenty of bitches in the sea. Am I right?” Then he walks away with a parting shot: “I’ll be sure to leave you some.”

These scenes paint a picture of two alpha males vying for authority. The dialogue refers to kings and rulers, Steve and Billy literally compete at every turn, and Billy symbolically kills Steve by shoving him to the ground. By the time he offers his “olive branch,” Billy clearly believes he’s won. He’s King of Hawkins High now, with everything that entails. Steve’s once-loyal subjects are now his, and he gets first pick of the women. Steve has to make do with the leftovers.

>>By the beginning of S3, Billy has settled comfortably into his “kingship.”

Alas, poor Steve. While he’s been reduced to pauper status, dishing out ice cream for children and struggling to land a date, Billy has ascended to the symbolic throne of the Hawkins Community Pool. In his first scene, he emerges gloriously into the sun, with the perfectly coiffed hair of a spoiled monarch. Then he struts to the throne the lifeguard chair from which he will rule the citizens of Hawkins. Along the way, he spots a citizen breaking the law, and he lets his displeasure be known. Loudly.

“No running on my watch! I catch you running again, and you’ll be banned for life. You wanna be banned for life, lard-ass?”

Brutal. But Billy is king of the pool, and the king has total authority.

He even has a symbolic harem: the middle-aged women who wait at the pool every day, clamoring, “Pick me!” “No, me!” When Billy chooses Karen, he’s picking her out of the harem. She has won the favor of the king.

That night, as Billy drives his royal chariot Camaro to their meeting place, he’s smiling and laughing. He has everything he (supposedly) wanted in S2 - power, glory, sex. No one can dim his star.

Then the Mind Flayer strikes. Like an assassin, He waylays the king’s chariot Billy's Camaro on the road, then symbolically kills him by dragging him into the underworld the basement of the steel mill.

At the height of his powers, the king has been dragged off his throne. It’s a fuckin’ good twist, full of high drama and mythological meaning.

>>Even after he’s been “killed,” Billy’s kingly spirit shines through.

Yes, he’s the Mind Flayer’s puppet when El meets him. Still, their meeting is framed as the street rat visiting the prince or king in his castle. He’s presiding over a royal banquet for his subjects the Holloways, in a room decorated with gold and elegant chinoiserie. His hair is still beautifully coiffed, and he’s wearing a princely blue shirt.

(Here, have some graphics, because this is one of my favorite looks for him EVER)

In addition, lions are mentioned multiple times in Stranger Things. In S1, Nancy compares the Demogorgon to a lion: “And it seems to hunt at night, like a lion or coyote.” In S2, Steve tells Dustin you can pursue girls aggressively like a lion or stealthily like a ninja. (THIS IS AN IMPORTANT LINE OF DIALOGUE! I’ll make a post about it eventually.)

For several reasons, I’ve come to believe Billy is the lion of Stranger Things.

1) His coloring is similar.

2) The sound design of the Camaro incorporates the roar of a big cat. (So does the sound design of the Demogorgon. Just fyi.) Listen to the Camaro in the first few seconds of this clip. Hear the roar? :)

3) When El comes to him in the Void, he’s made up to look like a lion: dark shading around the eyes, a golden “mane,” tan skin.

4) The Void scene evokes the story of Daniel in the lion’s den. El is Daniel, trapped in a symbolic cave with Billy, the lion who just might eat her.

This is such common knowledge it hardly bears mentioning, but lions have long been regarded as regal, noble creatures. They’ve been called “king of the cats” and “king of the savanna.” Even Christ himself was called “the Lion of Judah.”

A lion is the perfect symbol for Billy. He’s fierce, lethal, but ultimately noble at heart. Piss him off, and he just might eat your face.

By showing us his kingly “lion” side in the Void, the Duffers are saying his star may have been dimmed for now... but it’s still hidden deep inside him, waiting for the chance to shine again.

In my next post, I’ll explore how Billy evokes not just general god symbolism, but three gods in particular - Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades, the three brother-gods of Greek mythology.

»»————-　✼　————-««

The “Billy Is Alive” Meta Series

For updates, follow the hashtag #billy is alive meta

#billy hargrove #billy hargrove is alive #billy hargrove meta #stranger things #stranger things theory #stranger things 2 #stranger things 3 #stranger things 4 #stranger things analysis #stranger things meta #mythology #billy is alive meta #el hopper #eleven hopper #steve harrington #karen wheeler #christ symbolism #christ figures #ohbillyboy

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mamisolohd · 3 years ago

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trailer thoughts 💭

Let’s keep in mind it's just a trailer so I'm not gonna be too judgy. The s1 trailer included mostly clips from episode 1-3 and then some from 5 and 6. This one probably also mostly includes scenes from the first two to four eps. The first season also had a pretty fast pace and a lot happened in the episodes, which might be the case this season too. Something I noticed was that the necklaces are nowhere to be seen in the trailer. They will appear later but tbh I'm starting to believe that maybe they only were a coincidence, but we'll see! Ana's health isn't mentioned either. Ana’s mom is there which is exciting, I really enjoyed the grandmas! Tere makes an appearance only in the teaser, and she's talking to JC and not Mariana, maybe they're on bad terms still. Ferrán is also introduced. Ana's and Mariana's relationship seems rocky, but then again it's only the trailer and they probably want to throw us off by showing them being interested in Ferrán.

Let's just start with Ferrán and get it over with lol. Seems like there's gonna be some sort of a love triangle between the three of them because he's flirting with both of them? I'm not sure how all that's gonna go down since they're all working together. There's one part in the script, at the dinner where he also is invited together with Mariana, and then another part where Pablo asks Mariana how her weekend with Ferrán went, and so does all this happen unbeknownst to Ana, while she also has a thing with him? Or are they going for polyamory? Like that one time Paulina commented that a polyamorous relationship could be a good idea under a pic of Ana and Mariana, and also mentioned it in on of the clips that recently came out. I mean can you imagine? "Madre Sólo Hay Dos....... + Ferrán". I just don’t see it. Idk what part of the audience that plot would please. I might be biased since I am very for Ana and Mariana only, but putting that aside, Idk how that would fit in this story in particular. I'm thinking there's a plot twist at the end regarding Ferrán. And a side note, Paulina barely posted anything about the s2 so I don’t think she’d randomly give a potential spoiler like that. I hope she’s trolling xd.

Regarding Juan Carlos, apparently him and Ana and are still going to therapy which ughhh I'm so over JC, I don't care about the man at all. I’m pretty sure they officially are separating and I get that it takes time but I'm over hiiiim. It's such a waste of time since they did it in s1 when they were on better terms and couldn't figure things out. It's a short season and I'd just like to see something other than JC :<.

A lot of the scenes in the trailer also feel like they're in the first episode. The scene where Ana, Romelia and the kids are eating and they ask about Mariana and JC could be the opening scene, which also could lead the kids inviting Mariana over and then Mariana does come over (before the trailer came out I was thinking Mariana was sleeping over at Ana's because I thought she was wearing pajamas, turns out she's not lolll). That could be Ana's and Mariana's first encounter. Ana sees Mariana in her house, gets angry and maybe they'll even have some intense conversations ;)... They're really milkning Mariana being confused so idk how far they'll take that. Ana will probably be in full denial-self defense mode for a while, which isn't surprising.

She'll possibly go back to her 1x01 characteristics and personality for a while, especially with Mariana. Ana's probably really going to get on Mariana's nerves, especially knowing Mariana is patient, causing things to build up until it eventually bursts for Mariana which probably happens when she walks out on Ana after they argue. That argument seems to be a little more serious than their normal bickering since even Ana seems affected by Mariana’s response. I think all of this will happen in maybe the first 2-4 eps, which makes my wonder what'll happen in the other half of the season…

I was thinking Ceci's grad might be at the end of the season but it probably isn't. And speaking of Ceci, I hope they develop her and Ana's relationship way more this season, I really do. They didn't get too much time last time so I hope they'll have some sweet moments together, regarding everything... I really like Ceci! Ceci probably wants Mariana at her graduation and so Ana maybe cools down a bit and realizes some things, hence the bathroom scene (which btw I'm totally assuming the bathrooms scene happens at the graduation, it could very well be another occasion). After that maybe they'll at least be friendly again, have a "let's forget what happened" bs moment etc., although they probably still will keep annoying each other, like in the office when Mariana calls Ana a control freak and Ana calls Mariana a confused hippie lol. But it maybe is on and off since there's also a scene where they're with the babies and seem civil and where Ana is talking about how Ferrán was flirting with her, so they probably leave whatever happened in the past... until they realize that they're more than partners... whenever that happens. That one sentence is my lifeline at this point like no joke whenever an obstacle appears, remember that last sentence in ep. 8. I'm gonna be let down so badly if that part ends up being nothing lmaooo but I've decided to trust the show at this point.

While I'm putting my trust in their hands I’m also trying to keep my hopes low just in case. I'm also very bad at predicting plots so idk. I usually expect the telenovela plots since I'm pretty scarred by them lol but I was expecting a telenovela-ish plot when I first watched the show but then got really surprised afterwards. I feel like this show has a telenovela vibe but without all the parts and plots I usually hate, which is great! The love triangle drama seems like a very telenovela-y plot so I hope they'll eventually remove Ferrán from the both of them. Again, I'm really trusting them here, might be a terrible choice but here we areeee. Our protagonists have also mentioned an alleged third season, so it's okay if MarYAna won't be endgame just yet, maybe they're saving that for the third one! :)

#madre solo hay dos #daughter from another mother #mshd #this is so long #text post #long post

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