#i love the burton/selick movies

[black-ak9]

It's been a long time since I saw Coraline 🙂‍↕️🕸️

Sooooooo i made a WIP

[tnbc-thoughtsandheadcanons]

do you think Tnbc would’ve turned out any different if Tim Burton directed it instead of Henry Selick??

That's an interesting possibility to think about..!

At the time, Tim Burton approached Henry Selick for directing Nightmare since he didn't want to "deal with the painful process of stop motion". And from what I've heard, Henry had pushed the budget a few times, although it led to a beautiful-looking movie with amazing stopmo!

Would Burton have taken more shortcuts, since he'd have been preoccupied with his Batman movie at the time? Would he have been as concerned with the final product? I'm thinking we'd have gotten a different-looking movie if that was the case.

Also, Tim seemed to have some issues with the screenwriter, Caroline Thompson, at the time, who had a great grasp of the story and characters since she was hearing from and dating Danny Elfman at the time, but wasn't Tim's choice to write the script. I wonder, had he been directing the project, if he'd have been more adamant on finding a different replacement for Michael Mcdowell or not(or if he chose to keep him despite his...progress at the time?)

^ Building on that hypothetical, replacing Caroline Thompson would've DEFINITELY changed the movie as we know it. Probably little-to-no Sally in the plot, as my guess. And seeing as she gives the movie so much heart, we would be missing something for sure.

These are all hypothetical guesses, though, building on what we already know from Production. I would think the film would look and be different for sure, but I can't speak on behalf of what Tim *would* and *wouldn't* do.

All I know is I love the movie we ended up getting, in the hands of Henry Selick..! <3

[lesbianfakir]

While I’m on my horror kick (sorry it’s finals week and I need smth to obsess over) thinking about how I would LOVE to draw horror/macabre themed tutu art. I mean fucking hell if we assume the main characters of the prince and the raven are around mytho’s age, princess tutu is about a bunch of dead kids and the next group of children doomed to relive their fates!! Then you’ve got all the raven stuff + things going weird because of the heart shards. THEN you’ve got the horror of complete loss of autonomy (fakir physically being forced to write Duck’s death, duck being forced to dance). Idk I’m sleepy but there is a horror take on princess tutu out there and I want to see it.

[saw-bathroom]

My skin crawls every time someone puts Nightmare Before Christmas like a Tim Burton movie when is not!

[dontmindme2600]

I’M LOSING MY MIND??

I’M AT A LOSS FOR WORDS LIKE WHAT THE FUCK ACTUALLY BEETLEJUICE 2???

[randomrabbidramblings]

Warden of Autumn

People say Woodrow looks like he jumped out of a Burton/Selick movie. And it's true. This weird gangly Rabbid wouldn't look out of place among Halloween Town's citizens. To others he's the jinx, the evil eye, the iettatore, he brings bad luck with his poems. But never out of malice. He just does what he loves despite all he went through and the misfortune he may cause (mainly on himself, the poor thing).

[This drawing took me ages to make. It went throught four other tries starting this January because I wanted to mimick a scratchy inking style similar to Tim Burton's works. My slightly new way of sketching helped a lot as the lineart for this is literally a recolored sketch, lol. This is a true reminder to keep trying new things with art!]

[thenightling]

Addressing some old confusion about Nightmare before Christmas

Tim Burton is getting a lot of attention lately because of the new Beetlejuice sequel so a lot of his other work is being talked about. The Spooky season also leads to conversations about his work. And every year it's the same thing. Someone will list their favorite Tim Burton movies and someone will go "Umm... Actually, Henry Selick directed Nightmare before Christmas." Yes, he did. But I am willing to argue that three men deserve the bulk of the credit for Nightmare before Christmas. First we need to go backward to the early 1980s when a young Tim Burton was working for Disney as an animator, uncredited, for The Fox and the Hound. An unpleasant aspect of working for Disney is anything you create while working for Disney... belongs to Disney. While working for Disney Tim Burton doodled the characters that would become the main characters of Nightmare before Christmas. He also wrote a long-form story book / poem in the style of "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" by Dr. Seuss. It wasn't until the early 1990s that Disney finally agreed to allow this story to be adapted into a film, and also allowed the book, itself, to finally be published a mere few months before the 1993 release of the movie adaptation. In the early 90s there was a cinematic trend that the author of a Gothic book was in the movie title such as Bram Stoker's Dracula and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. But as Bram Stoker and Mary Shelley are long dead, no one mistook them as the director of their movies. The easy mistake may have been deliberate on Disney's part since Disney was preying on the (then) current rising success of Tim Burton's film directing career. (The 2004 Halmark mini-series of Frankenstein is closer to the Mary Shelley novel than the movie called Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, by the way.) Early in the production of the movie Tim Burton went to composer Danny Elfman's home and told him the story piece by piece. Danny Elfman immediately related to the protagonist Jack Skellington as he was in the middle of his own identity crisis as a the lead singer of New Wave rock band, Oingo Boingo. Danny Elfman had recently discovered his talent for and love for film and TV composing. Danny Elfman soon had eleven songs composed that made a full opera of the story Tim Burton told him. In fact, according to Danny Elfman, Tim Burton is uncredited but wrote some of the lyrics. Danny Elfman became so attached to Jack Skellington that he was also the character's singing voice for the movie. Danny Elfman's opera version of the story (just the songs without dialogue between them) became the basis for annual concerts that were performed as recently as last year at the Hollywood Bowl.

Henry Selick was the director of Nightmare before Christmas (the movie) and he had to deal with the tedious work of overseeing the entire stop motion process, probably the most painstaking part of the project. Caroline Thompson wrote the script for Nightmare before Christmas but only after the eleven songs were composed, the dialogue she wrote for the movie consisted of less than ten minutes of the movie's running time. So for the confused: The director of Nightmare before Christmas was Henry Selick. He had to oversee the entire stop motion animation process. The score, song lyrics, and Jack Skellington's singing voice was Danny Elfman, who wrote all eleven songs before there was a script and wrote them so well that they could stand without a script. (But he says Tim Burton wrote some of the lyrics but is uncredited). Tim Burton wrote the original short story / poem that was published the same year as the movie's release as an illustrated children's book. Tim Burton wrote some of the lyrics, chose the color pallets of the sets, and even was the one who decided Sally's socks would have to be striped when the puppet couldn't stand up right because her ankle were too small. Yes, Henry Selick should get credit as the director. But Tim Burton should also get credit for the original story, the character designs / concept art, and Danny Elfman needs the credit for all The scoring, most of the lyrics, and Jack Skellington's most passionate moments as he was the singing voice and Jack did a lot more singing than talking.

These three men, together, with their collective talents, are why we have Nightmare before Christmas.

[scarabjewels]

My Only Qualm With The Nightmare Before Christmas

We are all thinking it, so I'll say it out loud: Sally and Jack should have had better chemistry in the movie, other than Sally being down bad.

I know that this goofy spooky tale of a burnout artist rediscovering passion by committing a plethora of crimes yet turned out to be a beloved weirdo favourite character of all time is a beautiful movie, I just wish the side love story was BETTER.

I'll say it: Tim Burton should've had more say in that part of the story because Henry made it a little too...meh.

From what I have observed from Burton's work on love stories, he does know how to incorporate chemistry within his characters, even if they aren't in love stories. I only knew 3 movies of Selick and his work on how couples work isn't too bad but not so great either. This is purely opinionated, by the way, to take these words with a grain or maybe a teaspoon of salt. In James in the Giant Peach, the centipede and Miss Spider were given "already married" vibes. Their chemistry was good, but their journey was not fleshed out at all because it wasn't needed. The same goes for Coraline's parents. I don't think he clicks well with those kinds of stories. Otherwise, he is very good with epics or the classic "hero's journey." For Tim, he is actually quite the romantic. He did well with his previous works that I saw, like Corpse Bride, Edward Scissorhands, and even Dark Shadows. Before you say Wednesday, it was okay. I just didn't like Tyler, I was suspicious of him from the get- go, my sensors were going off the roof. Anyway, the point is it would have been a little different if Burton had directed it, but he loved Batman Returns a little more.

Now, to the important topic, Jack and Sally's love story.

The movie didn't really give them the chance to progress and build ACTUAL chemistry. We were literally introduced to Sally sneaking around to see or stalk Jack, which can be normal given the context that the townsfolk of Halloween Town is well Halloween-y, but we don't get much about them together. If the love story wasn't added but those scenes of them interact remain, I would've thought they were good friends with potential, and fanfictions would have written better plots for them to get together. Honestly, we know they did. They are good friends, and I can really see that, but they really missed the mark in the show and tell with their relationship.

Case 1: Sally is basically living her own tale already, yet had little interaction with Jack.

I understand that she is supposed to have a crush on her friend, the Pumpkin King, but she was doing quite well with her own arc! The movie showed her estranged relationship with her "creator," often sneaking out and would even go to lengths of poisoning just to have some agency for her life. That was already pretty good, yet the point of her character was supposed to be...Jack's rock?

Look, Sally as a stand alone character is so good but the lackluster of actual substance between her and Jack is just so empty and it's like there was no build up for their ending. The movies just gave us their similarities and differences, separate journeys as individuals, and how well they can actually work together. Yet we get a nom conversation scene of Sally sneaking out to help Jack with her potions and ideas, sewing Jack's Santa suit and Sally blushing when she gets saved by Jack. Hello? Where is the chemistry??? At least give me small cute interactions of "Hey Sally" "Hey Jack" every time they interact.

Case 2: Jack and Sally seemed to be friends and then out of no where, they become a couple?

I was young and stuff but I feel like I missed the build up of them falling in love?? Its like The movie convincing me that there was a ham on the table the whole time when I smelled no meat cooking? Gaslighting me much???

Sally has a crush on him. WE GET IT. How about Jack??? What he saves her then suddenly he realizes he liked her the whole time? HOW? It's frustrating to find no clues at all other than polite words of "I am trusting you with this important task, my dear friend!" With that showmanship gusto. What I'm just seeing is that Jack sees her as a good friend, like how he sees most of the citizens in Halloween Town. We didn't see an actual intimate status of how deep their friendship is. I mean, if a small conversation of them just happened when Sally gave her trinkets to help him on his midlife crisis (actually, I want to just call it a hyperfixation), they really could've done something more with that storyline. A HUGE MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

Case 3: The movie literally was gaslighting us with this "love story"

The whole time, we were LED to believe Sally's feelings were unrequited and that she was at least APPRECIATED by Jack. And then, Jack saves her and Santa, suddenly he realizes he likes her? HOW DID WE EVEN GET THERE??

I was losing my mind like, did I miss something? When did all of that happen? What kind of message is this movie sending?

"Hey kids! Remember, if you try hard enough, they just might like you back".

Look, Sally is quirky and as much as I adore her, I do not condone her stalking tendencies. I get that she was trying to help in her own way and in the context of Halloween Town, this kind of behaviour is probably either fine or normal. The citizens' job is to literally sneak and scare. But, it still could send a misguided message.

I was reminded of Dylan's (Dylan Matthews, Dylan is in Trouble) commentary on "The Devil Wears Prada" where he said that movies really have to be careful with sending messages, he was referring to how Andy was seeing success in her job but dropped a dress size. While a lot of people could interpret this as bad sacrifices for a career, some could misinterpreting it as success equals those types of sacrifices, which is a no-no. The point of that scene is that Andy was engaging in toxic behaviours to succeed in a career she didn't even like in the first place.

Now, with the Nightmare Before Christmas, they were a little careless with the messages of how the two characters' love story worked. It came across lacklustre and had terrible to NO progression at all. They really messed up with this. Lucky for them, people still loved those characters as their individualities were fleshed out well. Also, because the games and books fixed this problem a little bit.

To my point, there was no love story during the whole movie, just a lovestruck girlie pop and a burnt out artist. Then, a Houdini magic show somehow came into the picture and decided to have Jack and Sally kiss by the end.

But here is the thing, the video games gave us the chemistry that lacked in the movie.

Kingdom Hearts delivered what I was deprived of.

Also, I got this image from a subreddit post that didn't like Sally because she "never believed in him". And the replies were good: "because Jack has bad ideas" and a reply to that comment: "that's the exactly the point, the town always gets swept up by his ideas and Sally is level headed enough to see that it's not a great idea".

She really is though, Jack is a showman with either hit or miss ideas and Sally is essentially the woman behind the man, so I guess it kinda makes sense that she would be the town's Pumpkin Queen.

I have YET TO READ IT AND I HAVE THE PDF!!!

[davenweenie]

More Lab Rats HCs

-as much as Chase loves documentaries, his favourite movies are actually either Tim Burton/Henry Selick or Studio Ghibli films. He finds them very calming but also stimulating for his brain.

-Chase always struggles to find entertainment because he’s so smart. His mind is always working and doesn’t shut off. It’s very hard for him to find something that’s actually interesting to him. He already knows everything, so nothing can really take his interest that easily.

-when they they kids, Davenport struggled the most in raising Chase because he was always bored. Bored kids create chaos. And because Chase is so smart it creates worse situations because he knows how to do things most kids don’t. Example: he knew that if he mixed certain chemicals he could create small bombs. Also Davenport had a mental breakdown when Chase was tall enough to reach the cyber desk. After that Chase was not given the password to access it.

-if Chase was allistic he would be able to shut off his super senses (like allistics can block out certain noises whereas autistics can hear everything and almost be able to pick apart each noise. I hope this makes sense) and activate them when needed. But because he’s autistic he really struggles with blocking out things and can hear everything. This leads to a lot of sensory overloads.

-Leo taught Adam and Bree how to deal with Chase’s meltdowns or overloads correctly without making them worse. Davenport sees how they do this and eventually is able to help Chase once he learns how to.

-Davenport used to force Chase to listen to loud noises all the time as part of his training to teach him how to block out noises when he didn’t need to use his super senses. He later feels like the worst father alive when he realises why Chase can’t do this once they discover that Chase is autistic.

-when their secret was first revealed and they became famous, Chase was hunted down by paparazzi after school one day and had cameras shoved in his face as well as mics as hundreds of questions were yelled at him. That was the first time he accidentally sent out a distress signal through his chip. Bree had to super-speed him out. Chase hates the paparazzi now.

That is all for today. Trying to keep them as short as possible even though I have so many ideas.

[scientistservant]

I think Edward Scissorhands is the only Tim Burton movie I like (because lets face it, Nightmare Before Christmas isn't a Tim Burton movie, it's a Henry Selick & Danny Elfman movie). And I can't get over how the place Edward was made in looks a lot like Fink's lab, aesthetic-wise. It's so cool. I love that gothic laboratory look!

[elle-thinks]

Wendell and Wild Commentary - Tim Burton vs. Black People

About a month ago, I watched Wendell and Wild on Netflix. I know it's been a minute, but I had to sit on my thoughts for a while. You see clay-mation horror films contain a feeling of nostalgia for me, considering the popularity of classics like The Nightmare Before Christmas and Coraline. Wendell and Wild, being directed by the same master of clay animation, Henry Selick, seemed to purposefully contrast the image of Tim Burton's family horror genre in its capacity to include people of color. This purposeful and creative insertion of Black people, Black culture, and contemporary issues made me question the validity of my nostalgic memories and assess the messaging behind the film.

Tim Burton has occasionally alluded to Black people and characters not fitting the aesthetic of his films, when asked about his primarily White casting. That, folks, is a can of worms if I've ever seen one. Without getting into the psychology of his statements, they were very controversial remarks that served as a talking point within the Black community. Additionally, Selick's continued partnership with Burton gave Selick much creative freedom but resulted in primarily Burton's acclaim. Ultimately, Selick does not share the same views about Blackness in horror media, and he decided to reach out to the iconic Key and Peele with an idea for a new project.

Whether it was purposeful or not, (likely it was, due to Peele's progress in the Black horror genre) the trio would create a counterargument of a film to challenge the concerns of Burton. Though most would likely agree that style, artistic expression, and various aesthetics are raceless and genderless, a contemporary example is always helpful. In Wendell and Wild, we are presented with a Black, goth girl as our protagonist who certainly doesn't hold back when it comes to teenage angst and supernatural surprises. We are also shown a compassionate, transgender character who was pleasantly multi-dimensional in both the plot and in personality. The dialogue is filled with AAV, Afro-centric subliminal messages, and some hilarious, Black-inspired one-liners. There is also some educational commentary on the school-to-prison pipeline which largely affects Black and Latin demographics, and you can read more about it here.

The artistic style of the film and the animation quality was top tier. I would recommend watching the film just to see what an amazing production the film actually is for the eye. Additionally, there were interesting interpretations of various environments, like hell being an amusement park or a manifestation of consciousness being a neon green, internal landscape. There was a lot of creativity in this film, resulting in a whacky whimsicalness that children are sure to love. The new take also held my attention as an adult viewer, because I was curious about the world-building aspects.

While I personally enjoyed watching the film, I don't find it to be particularly memorable. Perhaps I cannot compare it to the emotions I felt while viewing the other aforementioned films because I no longer have the lens of a child. I worry the film did not gain the popularity it deserved in relation to other hits like Paranorman and Corpse Bride. Obviously, the Wendell and Wild is fundamentally different from the other films in many ways, but something about the tropes in the plot or the incorporation of progressive modernism grounded the fictional movie in too much reality. It felt very much as if I was watching a television special rather than a children's feature film. Though many new concepts were introduced, it was predictable enough to leave little room for imagination of the viewer.

Ultimately the film proves that Black writers, actors, characters, and other marginalized groups, are more than worthy of being in the horror animation space. As a Black viewer, I actually had a lot of joy watching the film and could relate well to some of the characters. Though I don't see the film establishing quite the same legacy as some of Selick's other works, I hope it serves as a pioneer for others to follow in its niche.

[tnbc-thoughtsandheadcanons]

this might be a little strange, but sometimes i feel a hint of guilt for buying tnbc merch because i wonder how much of that money goes to burton and if im supporting him in a way? he's done some real questionable stuff idk it just irks me a little bit (for the record i may have moral ocd) what are your thoughts on this

When you buy TNBC merchandise, you are also supporting Disney, a corrupt monopoly known for despicable practices. And if you want any sort of Nightmare-related entertainment, you have to visit Disneyland, which is directly funding the company. Because the movie is Disney, any (legal) consumpton of it inevitably gives money to them and Tim Burton. But there's nothing we can do about that. So try not to feel super guilty about indulging in your interests and just wanting a cool Oogie Boogie mug. We are all trapped under capitalism yadda yadda.

However, I also like to remember the entire crew that worked on this movie and poured their soul + love into it. Even though they see no profit from all of the merch, their work is still being seen and celebrated to this day. I think it's important to listen to their Podcasts and learn what they went through to make the movie we love. Henry Selick is a talented man - I see no reason why we SHOULDN'T give love to his movie.

Unfortunately, Tim Burton and Disney will see the majority of profit and be the ones responsible for sequel continuations and adaptations. It's just the way it's been and always will be. But we can give our thanks to all the animators and crew that worked hard to make TNBC. Tim Burton had little involvement in that process - he may own the licenses, but he wasn't a one-man-team behind the project.

[moroser]

do you have tips for developing an art style? yours is so pretty and you draw lilith perfectly!!! 🍄🪲🌷💝

thank you!! <3

i really, honestly, don't have anything concrete to say about this but i can try to explain how my own came to be.

i think my style is like an amalgam of other styles and art that i find very inspiring. like, when i was younger i really loved tim burton and henry selick's whole schtick and i feel like you can see the influence in my art. different movies and comics and other artists, just take things you like from art you love.

another really big thing for me is... learning anatomy and basics so you can sort of learn where and when and how to exaggerate the features. for example, learning the anatomy of a skull is great but ALSO the muscles of the face can help understand where features sit and how they can move. it sounds daunting to learn all of this but you can totally draw your fav characters or ocs as practice for these things. i spent a lot of the last year's time studying faces and watching some of my fav artists do livestreams and such!

i have so much to learn and i know my shit is just going to keep developing and i'll keep just drawing what comes to me. i don't think you should stress too hard about having a certain style. it'll come. your art will always be uniquely yours.

[charmanderxerneas]

Im SO FUCKING SICK AND ANGRY AND TIRED OF SHITTY LIVE ACTION REMAKES ESPECIALLY for shit like stop motion, which is an entire beautiful painstakingly time consuming artform in of in itself. and theyre remaking it just to earn some money. Gonna make it more bland and take away the charm just because its “a popular thing we own that’ll make money because idiots will watch anything”.

Live action remakes piss me off because it feels like they never truly understand the charm of whatever they were remaking, and then they fail to create anything close to it. Theres also the point that Often times, animated films are animated for a reason. Because the story is suited for animation, animation can help every frame look artistic and beautiful and contribute to the stories and themes, ect…. live action can be good but disney doesnt put in the effort to make their live action films artistic. Plus many of the effects and cgi will look very outdated in a decade when animated works still hold up over time due to the stylization and artistic nature. The live action remakes are also very forgettable- none of them have left as great an impact as the originals and I often forget which films have had remakes already.

First of all: The nightmare before christmas has a wonderfully stylized aesthetic, all the characters are sculpted in a stylized spooky way thats full of character, and the worlds are very well crafted and theres so much visual stylistic contrast between the halloween and christmas worlds (most of my praise is for henry selick and the animators rather than tim burton btw. Since tim burton came up with the idea and then fucked off and wasnt even involved in the film at all. Tangential comment but wanted to give credit when i can since i feel like he always gets the credit for this movie) Do you really fucking think disney is going to take the effort to replicate those aesthetics well in a live action film. Do You REALLY Think It Would Have As Much As A Visual Impact As The Stop Motion Film?

Second: Nightmare before christmas literally takes place in a world full of monsters 😭 meaning animation is one of the BEST mediums that could be suited for it because monsters arent real and animation is for creating worlds that can’t exist in real life. IF YOU DO IT IN LIVE ACTION ITS NOT GOING TO WORK. Practical effect monsters can look cool but its fucking disney and god knows its just gonna be all cgi because cgi animators aren’t currently unionized to my knowledge and they can fucking take advantage of them to make themselves more money. Im also sick of them doing mostly cgi animated shit and calling it live action like they did with the insulting lion king shit. (no disrespect to cgi or cgi animators, just doing their jobs. But god knows big movie companies do not respect the medium and do it as cheaply as they can)

Fuck Disney. Fuck Live Action Remakes. Fuck Lazy Corporate Cash Grabs. Please support original works, original creators, writers, animators, unions, support the people who make great films that we love and Dont support disneys lazy cash grabs for the love of god. grahhh sorry for ranting but this shit makes me livid

[dapperinsanity]

Last Saturday, I had the wonderful opportunity to see The Nightmare Before Christmas Live in Concert for the movies 30th Anniversary!

It featured Danny Elfman himself and it was amazing to see him perform on stage. He is an inspiration to me and is the reason why I wanted to learn piano. Ken Page was also there and it was amazing to see him as well. The conductor and the orchestra brought the movie to life on stage. It was so cool to witness them playing the entire film’s score. Unfortunately, I was only able to get tickets for Saturday and Catherine O’Hara was not performing that day. But! The woman who filled in for Sally’s role was very talented and she deserved the spotlight. I have some photos below!

Now onto a gush about “The Nightnare Before Christmas” below.

It was surreal to experience this as Nightmare has been my special interest for my entire life. It sounds cheesy but this movie means a lot to me. As a kid, the movie expressed feelings and emotions that I could not put into words. I went most of my life being undiagnosed and neurodivergent. I was the lonely outcasted weird kid who tried his best to fit in and learn how to act like my neurotypical peers. I was a walking character trope. The Nightmare Before Christmas has gotten me through tough and lonely times growing up and ironically enough, I went through a similar identity crisis that the movie touches on. The loneliness and depression Jack experiences in the movie just struck a chord with me. The story, the character, and the music helped me to process many things as a child. It’s a comfort and is also a place I can escape to in my daydreams.

This movie and Burton’s work also played a part in my artwork. The unique style had opened up new and creative pathways for me and helped me to embrace my own weirdness. Although, I don’t give him much credit when it comes to Nightmare, I admit his art style has played a part in my art. I give full credit to the people who worked on the movie as Henry Selick and his team as they deserve it.

Henry Selick is another artist that also inspired me as stopmotion in general, is a part of my special interest. When I was introduced to Rankin Bass movies, that’s where my fascination began. What really honed in my love for stopmotion was The Nightmare Before Christmas. The amount of work that was put in this movie was phenomenal. They were passionate about their work despite the long process and hard work. Since discovering Selick’s work, I’ve been a long time fan. Of course, I’d love to work on my own stopmotion project but that will need to wait for now until I find a stable career lol.

Overall this movie has always been meaningful and important to me in many different ways. Again, it’s cheesy but true. I’m glad to have celebrated its anniversary along with Halloween itself this year.

[lgbtlunaverse]

I know I've been guilty of this too so, like, stones and glass house or whatever, but i get SO frustrated when people only talk about goncharov in relation to Martin Scorsese, and Matteo is left COMPLETELY out of the conversation.

It's always "goncharov (1973) directed by martin scorsese" and YES he produced it and is a great director but he is NOT the one who wrote the film and not the only director. It's like when you watched the credits your eyes just glazed over after you read "Martin Scorsese" and don't even see the "Matteo JWHJ0715" RIGHT BELOW IT!

It's like coraline with Tim Burton all over again. Henry Selick both wrote and directed Coraline but the big bame gets all the credit. Or really, Coraline and Tim Burton was Goncharov and Scorsese all over again, since coraline came out over 30 years later. But at least in 1973 critics and media acknowledged both somewhat equally, though the bias for Scorsese was definitely already there. But only now that Martin Scorsese has gone down as one of the most famous filmmakers of all time and Matteo Jwhj0715 is no longer active in the industry, right as people rediscover his most famous work, they completely ignore his involvement in it!

And it's strange because tumblr is one of the platforms where people are most vocal about Henry Selick and the credit he deserves. (By the way, go watch wendell&wild, it's an amazing movie and if you love stop motion or animation in general even a little you owe it to yourself to experience it) and yet you are all COMPLETELY silent about Matteo JWHJ0715, and I won't stand for it!

Matteo is actualy FROM Naples, and Russian on his mother's side. Yes, Scorsese is italian-american and it's been widely documented how that has impacted his filmmaking. But the movie is set in Matteo's hometown. And the reason goncharov has been praised for its nuanced portrayal of russian characters in a time when they were mostly one dimensional villains in american cinema (remember, this film came out in the middle of the cold war) Is thanks to him! A lot of Katya's story, her strugle with missing her homeland yet not being able to let go of her new life, was inspired by his mother who illegally left the USSR to be live with her husband in Naples, and was never able to return.

That's why Katya has so much more humanity to her than is usual for Scorsese's female characters. (Look, he's a great director, but his track record with women in his movies is... not the best. Could be worse, but certsinly could be better) If you love Katya, that's because of Matteo JWHJ0715. And I'm sick of people erasing him.

Also if I hear one more of you say his name is "unpronounceable" because it's not americn enough for you i am going to commit homicide.