#i love protagonists who arent actually heroes :)

[organised-disaster]

Rumi is every kind of judging you and Sera is a little uwu babigrill. The girlies once again brought into visible existence by a picrew

[faelapis]

alright! we got one whole person interested, so here's my hot take:

the first "how to train your dragon" movie is WAY better than httyd 2.

i know everyone loves like, the cool warrior mom design, the romance and the "epic animation moments" in 2... but can we for a moment be honest and say the whole "hiccup becoming a leader / which dragon is the Good Alpha" plot was dumb as hell? also, the villain sucked?

the original httyd is pretty good about keeping the structural problem grounded in real societal fears. namely, fear of the unknown and of beasts. it makes sense for any ol' village dealing with such a problem. it was intelligently designed around a solid premise.

httyd 2 is like. actually, dragon taming is a big thing, even outside berk. and theres a Scary Foreign Man dragon tamer who is bad and just wants power. it's okay to other him. being a good guy is about being a protector instead of an evil, power-hungry guy... which hiccup never was anyway... so no real growth there. just be good instead of bad. wow. what a theme. very thought-provoking.

people act like httyd 3 being bad came out of nowhere, but httyd 2 was the original sin to me. it totally dropped the societal themes in favor of generic good vs evil fights and "worldbuilding" - despite having no more interesting stories to tell.

it also kind of ruined hiccup for the sake of developing him. like. his whole thing is that he can't fight, so he has to find other ways to contribute to society. he's the anti-macho hero. which ends up being important in convincing the village that dragons can be peaceful. he's empathetic to the other, because he's been othered.

meanwhile in httyd 2, hiccup's like. Cool Warrior Man, who needs to step up and be the hero king when his dad dies. he can fight just fine, because he has a cool dragon to fight with. so he's just like any warrior, but one who fights with weapons instead of brute strength. aka most fictional warriors who arent just "the heavy."

the first movie isn't beyond criticism, obviously. the animation was a little meh compared to httyd 2 - i get why visually its seen as an upgrade. plus, httyd 1 also did the thing of having like a last minute evil dragon to defeat... but that wasn't the point. the POINT was the village and its fears. the POINT was overcoming that.

whenever people list why they love httyd 2 and consider it superior, its like... lists of details. like, look at the upgraded character designs, the cool flying scenes, the affection between hiccup and astrid, or the clever way hiccup's prosthetic leg is designed.

but these are film *details*, not fundamentals.

if you told me the sequel to httyd was going to have a much more generic story, ignore the themes of the original and makes its deliberately lanky and weak protagonist into Handsome Hero Warrior Boy, i'd be like. that sounds kinda bad. but the Animation Details (tm) i guessssss

i know hiccup is still "himself" in 2 to some extent, btw. he's an inventor, he's intelligent, and he initially tries to talk to the villain. but none of that ends up mattering. its arguably looked down on by the movie, which really, really wants him to step up to be the warrior king like his dad. aka a generic Hero Strongman.

i'm not totally against evolving the themes of a work to fit new conflicts, btw. sequels should generally be different from the first movie. that's fine. that's expected.

but while the new conflict in httyd 2 IS born out of the results of the previous movie, that evolution feels very literal, not thematic.

namely, the evolution is "more people have dragons now." it builds the conflict from there. its based on worldbuilding, not on theme.

i don't think a very interesting evolution.

it kinda went from, in httyd 1: "the theme is fear of the unknown. how prejudice/ignorance manifests, educating oneself through compassion, the dangers of worshipping violent masculinity, and the importance of questioning what you're taught by society."

to, in httyd 2: "the theme is dragons. who has them? what they want with them? how can the Good Guy humans protect dragons from the Bad Guys? also, being a Good Leader means being a strong Hero Man who protects his friends," without asking any deeper questions related to the themes of the first movie.

and i'm like. guys. guys.

the theme shouldn't just be "dragons."

the theme of the first movie was NOT just "dragons." the first movie could've been about people being afraid of unicorns. or large birds. or unusually intelligent bears. it was not just about literal dragons, it was about societal fears and trying to overcome our base gut instincts.

i think this is what really plagues httyd 3: it builds on the themes of the second movie, not the first.

httyd 3 asks further questions that only really revolve around the literal relationship between humans and dragons. it does not understand any broader themes of what that relationship represents.

it clearly thinks its very intelligent for asking "what do the dragons themselves want?", but that question is not respected enough to be explored in any thematically coherent way.

the only real weight its given is the argument that there will always be "bad humans" out there, and so, dragons are safer in the wild. which sure is... an argument. but its a very "othering the problem" kind of argument.

it acts like its caring about the agency of dragons, but its not really. dragons were not actually portrayed as "oppressed" in berk society after the first movie, nor lacking agency. they were only at risk of "bad individuals", to which that solution is stupid. the racialized bad guy in httyd 2 didn't steal all his dragons from berk. he caught and subjugated them, mostly from the wild.

all while looking like... this, by the way. i feel like we don't talk about that enough. all the good guys are white nordics, while the only man of color is scary, domineering and cruel. in a series of movies that was once about having empathy for the other.

MAYBE if berk had been really oppressive towards dragons in httyd 2, we could've had a theme. maybe if they treated them like a dangerous commodity that must be tightly controlled despite their nominal acceptance and inclusion, we could've had a thematically tight 3-movie arc about like fear and oppression or whatever.

but that would require, yknow... making the movies be about broad societal problems, instead of just evil individuals. and only the first movie cares about making any real societal critique.

also, the solution in httyd 3 would've still sucked. these movies, in terms of writing, really decrease in maturity from 1, down to 2, to the plummeting depths of 3.

there is no relationship of oppression that is solved by completely segregating society and going our separate ways (httyd 3). just like there is no oppression that is solved just by defeating bad individuals (httyd 2). we have to learn to coexist as equals, to educate ourselves and be compassionate to the other. even if we're afraid.

that's the dream only the first movie kept in its heart.

[liquidorcard]

Lily can't keep her own "Sympathetic" Villains rules Straight: Anthony Gramuglia edition

See Crim's edition for the rules and outlines. Here we go.

Lily's Response to Ant:

Lily's probably going to get a significantly worse score on this one because me and Ant I think have similar media diets. We begin:

1. In the book, 100% he is THE villain. The movie not as much. Still though, I think movie Hammond more than fit's Lily's criteria. -1 life found a way

2. We already went over this (yes I am still writing p.3 of my Magneto post.) -1 Anthro cow delivering your children

3. Kyubey's keeping the universe from ending Lily. How could you get closer to having a point than that? -1 timeline

4. See Crim's post. He does fail #2. Again though, by Lily's original parameters this was a valid entry. But I have to give her the point. +1 spider gets it's legs ripped off

5. I bet she thought this was clever. -1 gate keeper.

6.N/A

7. I don't even know what she's talking about here. -1

8. Del Toro sends his regards. -1 Nerdy fish man.

9. LILY HASN'T SEEN THE BROADWAY SMASH HIT PLANET OF THE APES THE MUSICAL, STARRING TROY MCCLURE!? For shame! -1 (has anyone else watched that movie recently? I'm not saying it's aged poorly, but like, it is profoundly unintentionally hilarious, watching it in the modern day. I know this was like, the whole thing back then-- leading men who were too cool for school, but Taylor is such a fucking asshole. Cornelius is the real hero of the film, and everyone bullies him for not matching their lunatic energy. #justiceforCornelius #GeorgeTaylorisoverparty)

10. N/A (Trekkies don't try me.)

11. N/a

12. N/A (I mean I feel like I've probably seen the whole Mummy franchise just through memes at this point but. Lily's reasoning here is fucking asinine though-- as per usually Ant us uniquely getting her goat.)

13. This is actually the first example that breaks rule #3. Sorry fam I love Elfen Lied too, but it's a bit of a hot mess. +1 dead puppy

14. Scar is a dead ringer to Lily's criteria. She straight up just didn't have a pot to piss in, so she just wrote "no." -1 Dwarf in a flask

15. For the record, my boomer mom has seen Ghost in the Shell. The movie anyway. -1 body on loan

16. I watched this as a kid but can't really remember anything about it, so, I gotta put it as N/A.

17. This might actually be the first time I've seen anyone else memtion this movie . . . But still. -1 burnt wheelchair

18. Not plus ultra. -1 for all

19. Oh fuck off Lily. Glass houses. -1 jutsu

20. Sai, Crim and Ant spoke pretty extensively about this one. -1 angry hair raise

21. This one too. -1 demon pig

22. Yes she is. -1 dad

23. See Crim's list. -1 Prisoner 24601

24. N/A

25. Read ANY book, Lily. -1 absent godly parent.

26. I've only read the first one. N/A

27. Lily's reason here is bullshit but I haven't seen Columbo either. N/A

28. Why not Lily? -1 Jimbo

29. YES SHE FUCKING IS LILY. Just because in a modern context her story is a lot more tragic doesn't mean she isn't intended to be a villain. Lily made up the rule "has a point," but if they have an iron clad one she just declares them not a villain. -1 head

30. OBJECTION! NOW YOU REMEMBER VILLAIN AND ANTAGONIST ARENT TRUE SYNONYMS FOR EACH OTHER!? -1 Lily if you could just ONCE try to engage with a media discussion honestly.

31. N/A. I'll get around to watching it.

32. Not in Dracula Untold. -1 Damn Luke Evans looks like he was cloned from Orlando Bloom. I can't tell those two apart.

33. DIFFERENT DRACULAS. HOLY SHIT. -1 Lily this rational is so piss poor it's embarrassing. Even for you.

34. N/A

35. Isn't he in Kingdom Hearts? -1 Ah Ha Ha Ha

36. Another non-surprise. -1 traveler on his way home.

37. I haven't played enough Kurby to know why Meta Knight is a sympathetic villain. N/A

38. I've played enough to know Lily's right on this one. +1 Deddeddeedeeededededeeedede

39. A) several characters on both Crim and Ants' lists have been protagonists. B) IT'S FUCKING COMMON POPCULTURE KNOWLEDGE DONKEY KONG WAS THE ANTAGONIST IN THE FIRST APPEARANCE OF BOTH MARIO AND DK. -1 Lily I'm fucking shocked you don't know this. Genuinely. That's saying something, considering it's you.

40. Solid Lily continues to be the worst one. -1 LIQUIDDDDDDDD

41. Yes she is. Her point is the magic is what keeps her fucking family safe. -1 gift

42. You'd probably like this movie actually, Lily. Not the book, but. Or maybe not, there's no incest lesbians I guess. -1 sexy tree

43. I'm going to give Lily the point to maintain consistency that mind-manipulation doesn't count as "a point." Before he put on the crown he's not really even an antagonist, so. He IS an example of a sympathetic villain, however. +1

44. THERE ARE OTHER ANIMALS ON THIS LIST. Another one who's spot on, so she can't figure out how to even pretend to argue against it. -1 Beauty who killed the beast

45. GODZILLA ISN'T LITERALLY A NUKE. -1 pop culture jokes don't substitute proper media analysis

46. The Kaiju Lily. Her name is the title of the film. It's not Ant's fault You're too lazy to Google shit. -1 Viking Relic

(Biollante would have been my personal pick for sympathetic Kaiju. And her dad. She would have broken Lily's first rule since she's probably not aware of exactly what's happened to her, but. Her father at least fits Lily's criteria. A lot of the Kaiju are sympathetic though.)

47. This is a perfect example as to why Lily's rules are ridiculous. John Kramer is, in my opinion, outrageously unjustified in what he does. He follows her rules though. Having a bad point is still having a point. How "well written" he is wildly different depending on the movie, but because he's at least well written sometimes I'm counting him. -1 foot

48. You haven't read Paradise Lost Lily. I know you haven't. -1 Satan crying for everything he's lost

49. God Lily I wish you'd actually read something for once because this is an even better example as to why your rules are a joke. -1 Facist Worm King

50. This is a specific example. -1 tears, it's a waist of good suffering.

LILY'S FINAL SCORE: 19/50

38% - F

Got wrong: 24

Got right: 2

Removing the ones I haven't seen:

19/39

48% - F

Removing the ones Lily hasn't seen:

15/37

40% - F

Removing the ones we both haven't seen:

2/26

7% - F

[luxaofhesperides]

decided to make an actually useful pinned post so here we go:

i have a newsletter that goes out every so often with my thoughts on things, what i'm reading, and occasionally a look at my original wips. it's totally free bc this is just a little thing i do for fun. subscribe if u want! here's the link

all of my writing can be found under the 'my writing' tag. edits, usually book edits, are under 'my edit'.

my ao3 is aryelee and every fic i post in here is also posted over there so if youre having trouble finding something, that's where you should go!

all my random thoughts are tagged as 'rambles' and when i live blog the comics im reading, i use 'comic read' so block either of those if you don't want me clogging ur dash.

below the cut is a look at all of my wips at the tags i use for them

ORIGINAL WIPS

this darkness swallows us whole ; the very first wip i ever started when i first began writing. it's a hot mess with too many uncompleted first drafts, but i love it so much. demons, gray morality, and one mute girl ready to start throwing hands. - #camellia

every other face ; superhero wip! with a villain taking in a child and trying to live a normal life despite the hero, her main nemesis, constantly popping in to make sure the kid is safe and she hasn't decided to cause trouble. - #caerleon community

past the pages ; isekai wip focusing on the characters trying to figure out what went wrong when the 'villainess' goes missing, ruining the happy ending the protagonist was expecting

- no tag yet! will update once i post about the wip on here.

DC

these aren't wings, they're futures ; in which tim and damian travel back in time to when jason was robin, and try to make this new timeline better while avoiding being caught by the bats for the illegal things they're doing as very young children. - ao3 link - #these arent wings

medium!tim verse ; in which tim is a medium who helps ghosts. three timelines planned: canon, polaris, and civilian. - ao3 link - #medium tim verse

manako ; my dc oc, a very tired, no nonsense baker in gotham who doesn't want to deal with bats begging for snacks in the middle of the night. ocs everywhere, and a look into the community of gotham and the life of civilians. - ao3 link (to be made) - #manako

OTHER

ghostlights requests (dc x dp) ; fics made for danny fenton/duke thomas prompts sent in to me. currently not accepting prompts. - ao3 link - #prompt fill

those who serve (dc x dp) ; danny is taken in by alfred and works as his apprentice in wayne manor. - ao3 link - #alfred's apprentice au

the harmless series (dc x dp) ; danny is reincarnated as damian's older brother + the fallout of remembering - masterpost of all parts - #the harmless series

my askbox is always open if you want to know more about any of these!

(last edited: 7.21.24)

[ralexsol]

watching "Listen" from 12 and then directly afterwards "The Devil's Chord" from 15 was the wrong decision on my part. it only made the devil's chord that much more painful. like listen isn't like an insanely good episode or anything but it. actually feels like a sci-fi show. and it has a very touching ending with clara and kid doctor.

a better comparison would be with "Robot of Sherwood" from 12 vs. devil's chord. they're both the 2nd episode of their respective doctors, with the plot being the companion's "i've always wanted to go to-" dream. both are EXCELLENT companion dreams: robin hood and the beatles. both have INSANE levels of potential for shenanigans between people of legendary status and doctor + companion. but um. one is done incredibly and the other is. not.

Robot of Sherwood: start in the TARDIS with doctor & companion. wanna see robin hood, oh but robin hood is not real - and wow, an idea held by a character in the intro scene will actually play a key role in both the comedy AND emotional charge for the entire episode! for the rest of the episode, you have robin hood as the 3rd protagonist in TONS of scenes, with iconic characters as his merry men and the sheriff making appearances. and look, an actual sci-fi thing going on! the guards are robots and they're stealing gold for their spaceship! cool!! and then the emotion-based ending of the doctor and robin relating over being legendary heroes who will only be remembered as such.

The Devil's Chord: start in unknown location with piano guy and his student. that's fine, it's setting up the plot, sure. get some fun piano playing and holy shit okay the villain is right here and just immediately showing their entire hand and purpose?? okay so they're killing people because they want music to themself. okay, they seem cool enough, there must be some interesting thing about them that we'll learn later. switch to TARDIS, wanna see the beatles, let's go!, montage of them watching famous musicians be shit at EMI studios. oh hey it's george martin the producer of the beatles thats fun!! annnnnnd he has more lines than ringo and george combined and this is basically the last time we will see half of the beatles! um. okay. i am dead serious half the beatles have about 2-3 lines between them and they only speak in 1 fucking scene. there's a cool scene with paul & doctor and ruby & john, i really liked how they explained the disappearance of music and the inherent terror everyone seemed to feel of the maestro (the villain) coming to get them. the scene on the rooftop is cool! im a pianist and i love orchestral music so i really liked that. but i was so terrified she was going to start singing at any moment because i cannot handle any more cringe-worthy songs in this show i just can't. this is not a musical. anyway, the whole episode falls apart when you realize oh the beatles arent actually what this episode is about and oh the maestro is literally just the character that you saw in the intro scene and they have no twist motive and no emotional charge and yeah they're the toymaker's kid so they're a "force of nature" and not an alien with cool science and they just want allll the music. and then there's long "fight" scenes and then john and paul save the day without saying a single word in a 15-second long total shot. and then there's a fully fever-dream level dance and song montage.

i dont know too much about peoples' opinions on 15 so far cause ive had spoiler tags blocked for months, but from what i HAVE seen, it's been really positive. am i blind? am i stupid? am i bigoted????? why dont i like the vibes of this season?? maybe im just spiraling because ive been so hyped to watch the beatles episode as a beatles fan for MONTHS and just can't cope with ringo and george being written out. ive only seen 3 episodes w 15. i so hope it gets better. please let it be better. if they do another musical number i will kill something. i will spontaneously combust.

[tixdixl]

Hello, thank you for providing me with such honest and helpful feedback on my post about why I thought the Hunter was a villain. I created this series because I was confused about the Light Magic Trio. However, I haven't even seen the movie or played the game, so thank you very much for your criticism.

Hi there!!! Happy to see you engaging in media analysis, even if it's just with the information you do have. Trying to work with the knowledge you have and trying to draw potential conclusions based on the source material is a great exercise in literary analysis and critical thinking! And for what its worth, I think thats incredibly important and I'm delighted to see you doing so.

I will say, however, that it's incredibly important to familiarize yourself with the media and to even draw citations when possible directly from the source. Not only will this help deepen your understanding, but allow for your conclusions to be far stronger and allow for us, your audience, to understand your line of thought! That way, if you do disagree with a take, or if you do draw a very strong conclusion, you have the explanation to accompany it! And i think this is especially crucial when dealing with a media like Twisted Wonderland, where it is drawing upon multiple sources in order to create its story. And with that in mind, I DO genuinely hope that you'll continue to engage with the discussion, adjust your argument as new information is presented to you, and that you continue to evolve your thinking. Because honestly, thats where most of the fun comes from, and its so important to continue to learn and practice problem-solving in that way.

That said, I would like to offer you a potential adjustment to your framework and see if it helps you sort out your confusion regarding the Light Trio. This of course comes with the caveat that 1) this is merely a suggestion and you dont have to take it - in fact if you do disagree with it and you have in-game cited reasons for it? Thats awesome!! I'd love to hear it!! I love to see how people interpret things different based on evidence in the media!!! And 2) I encourage you to take this suggestion and research the source materials on your own, while drawing your own conclusions. Maybe you'll find my framework doesn't work, and that in it of itself is a wonderful exercise in critical thinking.

For the sake of time and space, I'm going to drop my suggestion under the cut.

I would like to suggest to you that the characters with Light Magic arent strictly defined by Hero or Villian, but rather Protagonistic or Antagonistic force.

If we take Kalim for example, he is speculated to be twisted from the Sultan- a character who is often manipulated and forced to do things against his will in order to assist the Villain- Jafar. By your framework, we might argue that the Sultan is a villain. But if we actually examine the story as presented in the Disney film? That doesn't quite feel right, does it? And that's because the Sultan actually wants to HELP Jasmine and Aladdin. He strives on his own to help our protagonists. By this logic, he may not be a hero- as he doesn't save the day, but he's not a villain either. He is merely a protagonistic force- a character who benefits the main characters. (We could go on a whole essay about this and diving deeper, but to respect your time and encourage you to do some digging on your own, I will summarize there.)

When we compare the Sultan to Kalim, and how Kalim acts in Book 4, we see an incredibly distinctive similarity in how Kalim acts and is treated. He on his own is certainly not the Villain without the influence of Jamil, but he doesnt exactly save the day either. He wants to help Yuu in every way he can. But he simply... can't. He's no hero either. Instead, we can view Kalim as a protagonistic force, one who wants to see the best outcome for everyone. He is, after all, Light.

We can also examine Silver by this same framework. We don't actually know of he is twisted from solely Aurora, solely Phillip, or a mix both, but let's use the framework to talk about Aurora- because we have strong evidence to support that Aurora is one of his inspirations. Aurora, by our understanding of a "Hero", isn't a hero either. She barely has any screen time in Sleeping Beauty, and she spends most of that time asleep. But we know that she's the princess. She can't possibly be a villain- that's Maleficient's job, right? But if we work from the perspective of antagonist vs protagonist, we fit snuggly into place. She is arguably THE protagonist of Sleeping Beauty.

Silver is a bit complicated, and I won't go into detail about the plot of Book 7 as it still unfolds, but we can largely deduce that he is one of the main protagonistic forces in the entire book.

And last, but certainly not least, we have Rook. Rook who largely as you said cannot really fall into place as a Hero. But he's not really a villain either- and the same is said of the Huntsman. What we can see from Rook though is his attempts to help the protagonists by stopping the murder attempt on Niege's life. By nature of his behavior in Book 5, Book 6, and Book 7, we see him continuously being a protagonistic force.

"But Seris," I hear you say - rhetorically of course - "this is a villain school. RSA is the hero school! By that logic, shouldn't the hero/villain dichotomy suffice????"

And to that I present to you my supporting counter-point. Che'Nya from RSA. We understand by the logic of Hero vs Villain that Che'Nya, despite going to the Hero School, doesn't fit into either category either. And furthermore, what evidence we do have of his magical capabilities does NOT support the idea that he can use Light Magic despite going to RSA. And my argument to that point is this: He's an antagonistic force. We see Che'Nya in book one REPEATEDLY picking on Riddle, and influencing him to go against his mother's demands. He influences Riddle to break the rules. Because of the values on display and the interactions we see with Ace, Deuce, Riddle, and Trey, we can deduce that Che'nya is an antogonist, even though he's not a villain.

Perhaps you find this helpful. Perhaps you find it contradictory. Regardless, I hope it gets you thinking on a path that helps you make more sense of the story and the mechanics of the game.

Happy analyzing, my friend!!!

[ravenkinnie]

ive been wondering whats the difference between morally gray morally ambiguous and morally corrupt & which does silco, jinx, and vi fit in??

these arent like set terms or tropes so there will be a lot of overlap and you can have characters with very complex messy morality always but the general ideas are

morally gray/ambiguous - this is kind of the same thing, it's just character's who are neither a hero nor a villain. they will often have their own motivations that don't depend on moral goals ie their goal won't be to save the world or amass power but it might be that they are an assassin that is trying to make a living and ends up helping a hero in some way despite not giving a fuck about saving the world. that means that their actions often depend on that motivation purely and less so on whether they think its a good or bad thing to do

vi across season 1 and 2 might fall into this category but a much better arcane example is actually mel - mel is always playing her own hand and her actions depend on what her interests are and those interests sometimes align with the hero motivations like when she votes to prevent the war between piltover and zaun but she doesn't necessarily vote FOR ZAUN, it's directly connected to her noxus storyline and personal motivations too. and she is a fantastic example of a morally ambiguous character because people hate her and love her for actions AND motivations and the purpose of this type of a character is to question the meaning of good and evil

in this category I often see people include characters who are villains with a reason for why they are villains but a reason does not unmake a villain. most villains will have their reasons even if the reason is that they fucking love being evil. in general motivations and wants and needs are where your story lives, every single character you create will have their own, its not the reason that necessarily defines morality of a character but more so their role in the story and their actions. my fave is when people call victor from vicious morally gray BITCH THE SEQUEL IS CALLED VILLAINS like if you read it with open eyes you'll be like yeah this is an evil man slay tho. interestingly, a lot of nonhuman characters might fall into this category because they operate on value systems that can't be judged by our moral standard which makes them somewhat ambiguous ethically

morally corrupt - these are just the evil bitches, the instigators, the degenerates. these will be characters who have fucked ethical backbones in their actions. this is kind of silco and jinx but I think the confusion here would be that it's not that silcos ideals are necessarily bad but the way he actually approaches people and zaun is not moral or good and he doesn't give a fuck about being any of that. hes so good at being manipulative that hes just tricking quarter of a fandom into thinking that starting an opioid epidemic is actually pretty reasonable. put it in contrast with someone like ekko who has the same ideals but is an absolutely morally good character in how he approaches other people and in his actions

BUT this is an important distinction - silco is an antagonist but he doesn't have to be a villain and not being a villain does not make you morally gray. hero/villain are distinctions based specifically on the good vs evil dichotomy but an antagonist is just somebody who works against a protagonist who in this case would be vi but the only real villain in arcane is class inequality. and maybe piltover itself

between all those you can also have characters without set morality - when you create a story a question that is better to ask yourself than 'what archetypes do these characters fit' is 'what is their purpose in the story, what is the function that their motivations and actions are meant to serve' because it will allow you to think of a story in a more dynamic way. this is what all those tumblr posts that are like when characters are wretched mirrors of each other or haunting the narrative or whatever actually get at, these are the functions that they serve in the story. for example, jinx is the twisted result of the piltover vs zaun divide, the absolute worst ruin and power that can come out of a place like this and because the crux of the story is this inequality, her actions and motivations end up causing like 80% of the plot jsjsksk

[pokemon-ash-aus]

U know, i feel like SM King would like those stories where the hero/protagonist saves someone that they care about that previously went on a dark path (the 'friends/family to enemies to friends/family again' sort of trope) given his situation with Spot and Berry

He loves the one where the villain is the good guy. And the good guys STAY good guys.

Anti-heros and the like.

But he doesnt like em cause of Spot and Berry.

King actually enjoys them because he sees himself in them. All his prior negative thoughts and relating to the villain who eventually gets a happy ending!

((There arent many books like that, so Ash takes the time to read Fan creations and indie writiers to mmpass it over to King. He's become quiet fond of the way people love their creations.))

[isthe-protag-cluelesstho]

As someone who is kinda just floating my way through life right now, I've kinda been thinking about what my favorite characters say about who I am and like, what I want,

I mean, I've fallen into the Trap of Webnovels, one of the biggest black holes of How Do We Fuck With The Trope and while I clearly am not alone in my love of Cale Hetinuse, Han Yoojin and Kim Dokja (and likely other blind lovable bastards I haven't found yet), what exactly is it that makes their loneliness so true?

This may of course be my stupid migraine talking, but one of the things I find so fascinating about Webnovels is how consistently they deal with themes of Being An Outsider. Fundamentally, even just a passing glance at the summaries or a roll through the current trending set of Most Popular Stories, shows the persisting theme of being Other in some way,

One of the biggest genres, not just in Webnovels but most Very Online media are Isekais in some form, or the protagonist is thrust suddenly into not simply the stress of life, but the stress of having to either hide your true nature or otherwise display what sets you apart, driving further into their separation from the rest of the characters.

A lot of them now even twist this further, showcasing protagonists who "arent supposed to be there" or who are the "wrong" person to step up into the story.

God, it's like we as a group of people living in the world have reckoned with how far our lives and hopes have strayed from the goal, and have poured all of it into characters who still feel as though they can never belong.

I am US American and thus am reading these stories through at least 3 layers of additional abstraction on top of the already dense nature of Webnovel Fan Culture. I am still learning how to glean the hidden themes from stories which have started to generate triple decker layers of nuance and in joke so ubiquitous, my only viable comparison is that old Tumblr post joking about how reading AO3 tags was it's own form of dialect incomprehensible to anyone not submerged in it

And yet still, I can tangibly feel the ache in some of these stories. Across far too much space, linked only by the light of our respective screens, I am admiring the skill of these stories to articulate the depth of my isolation.

The characters I love tend to be people who feel as though they cannot be accepted. That they must atone for whatever it was that brought them to their current place in the story. An empress who leans into her divorce because she believes she cannot be anything other than herself, and that that self is an undesirable burden. A man who cannot believe he is allowed a family, that his presence will inevitably end that family's peace so he should fulfill his "role" as a hapless, useless piece of trash. A man out of time, who sacrificed everything for his brother and yet believes he's worthless, willfully stubbornly blind to any injury he has cause that would mean admitting that he matters. And on, and on, and on,

I am mostly just talking in order to codify exactly what it is that draws me in, and I frankly think... It's cause I feel seen.

I have always loved lonely characters, Anne of Green Gables, Ender Wiggan, The Goose Girl. Characters who are lost until they settle finally with the people meant to care for them,

I think Webnovel protagonists are so compelling to me cause they highlight how even when you are tremendously lucky or powerful or intelligent, the world does not care. It's only through the Power Of Friendship (both ironically and unironically) that the heros find peace. I guess they soothe the part of me that wishes I could be healthier or richer or more satisfied with my life, they vent the stress of Living THrough Interesting Times and honest to god they remind me to think about my friends and my actual goals. To remove myself from the idea that Achieving The Win Condition would actually help with my loneliness. Cause really, the only way to stop being lonely is to build relationships you can trust to show up at the end of the world, or to bail you out of Time Prison or pick you up outside of Imperial Divorce Court

What's the point if it's not to strive towards connecting with the people you love?

[sillyxaly]

Alright alright

Its late and I wont sleep before i tell this to someone so yall gotta listen

This post (idk how to make it pretty on mobile and im not finding out at midnight) suddenly made me realize why im sticking around in MHA.

Like I knew but I didnt know. I have probably skipped whole Arcs of that show, because I simply do not care about the kids who are the main cast. Dont come at me. I dont care. Aside from a few minor exceptions I care little to not at all about the kids. I used to activly dislike Izuku at the beginning and it just clicked in my brain why. Izuku, at the start, embodied that boundless hope that superhero society was perfect and like his whole life would suddenly be amazing if he got to be one of them. Which is pretty accuratly the picture that society painted. The superheores are amazing and they are something you aspire to be. Going into that show with Izuku as the protagonist id go so far as say they were flawless. Absolutly amazing. I didnt hate Izuku as much as I hated that.

I watch MHA for the villians. Shigaraki most precisely. I love that man with a burning passion that no hate comment could ever dream of tearing from my soul so if you read this dont even try. And I love him for the flaws. He is the flaw that hero society always had. Its what he always pointed out, what all of the league of Villians point at. This perfectly flawless system is just a light so bright it blinds you so you wont see the enermous shadow.

We spent so much time watching those young kids try to be part of that light and finally we are where I always wanted to be. We are exploring the darkness. I was thriving through they few "My Villian Academia" episodes and I have been ever since, not only because I feel my little broken band of misfits are gettinf more screentime, but also because the other characters have slowly started to aknowledge them as people. My personal point for it and also the point where my emotions towards Izuku drastically changed were all but one. It only took Izuku to see Tenko Shimura and aknowledge him as the scared and lost child he was and still is. Something along the lines of "I dont want to ignore that boy" was said in last weeks episode I believe. That sentiment has been in Izuku since the last season and it was literally the only thing I needed to go from "You're at most bearable to me" to "Thank you. I like you."

For so long these kids who grew up in this society and even the actual adult heroes as it seemed have painted this world in black and white. Were the good guys. They arent. And finally they too are actively questioning how true that really is, something I have been doing since first seing Tomura Shigaraki in action.

I actually like MHA now because it was dragging for me to get here, but now I am and I am in love with it. I am in such desperate need for these villians to be seen by the protagonists because nobody else ever tried to help them (im not counting All for One hes a manipulative shitty little guy and it was never genuine help to begin with) and they need help and I have an issue with fixing people and I want them to get help! And its just... freeing for me to have our pratogonists actovely start to realize that

[wheelercore]

@thestrangestthing89

Sorry to put you on blast, i just want to make my point clearer.

Im not saying that theyre *literally* psychopaths (as we perceive it in the colloquial sense), of course they arent. Mike (and El) are well rounded characters who arent wholly good or wholly bad. But in a show like stranger things that sometimes goes of it way to humanize even the worst people (eg billy hargrove) (with exceptions), thats the point. Using others for your own gain is a trait that is often attributed to one dimensional evil "psychopath" villains in media, when normal everyday good people use others all the time when they are pressured to by society.

But yet in the biggest 80s horror movies we often see the villains are *checks notes* the child of divorced parents billy loomis, the physically disfigured jason vorheese, or even michael meyers, who is just evil to be evil for no reason since he was a child. Freddy Kreugar, who was abandoned as a child by his mother and adopted by his physically abusive father. These characters in a sense (with the exception of michael meyers i suppose) are the antithesis of the perfect nuclear family and being "normal". Its to say- having these experiences or simply being different makes you inherently evil so sucks to be you! These are all intentionally given references in ST: billy hargrove (rage over his divorced parents), jason carver (vorheeses motivation for going on his rampage was revenge for the killing of his mother- or in ST jason's case, his girlfriend chrissy), michael wheeler (meyer's first act in the movie was murdering his dissmissive older sister), and fred benson.

But yet there is a double standard right? Normal every day good people often set themselves apart from "bad people" or "the other" as if they are inheretly different from birth. Whoever this nebulous "bad person" is changes from decade to country to person. Nobody wakes up in the morning and goes "im going to use someone today!" Or "im going to be dissmissive of other peoples feelings!" etc etc. People often have a blindspot for the wrong in their own behavior while being oh so scared of the trauma victims who may have a personality disorder or be a DID system or have any number of "scary mental illnesses". Or someone who deals with their trauma in "weird ways" or a trauma victim who is very angry.

We call henry creel a "psychopath" because hes murderer and because its oh so creepy that he kidnapped will so hes probably a groomer! But yet mike uses this abused isolated girl who barely can even speak to DIY conversion therapy himself to fit in. milf karen pursues a high schooler for sex to fullfill her fantasies to the point of having his work schedule memorized, be the reason why he was out and got caught by the MF, went on to suffer and die horribly, and karen was never shown to give a fuck about billys death regardless because newsflash the 40 year old woman didnt actually love that teenager and was just using him to get her rocks off. Hopper can continuously murder russians for all of s3- uh for the greater good of course!, and eleven can also have a kill count count- but its okay when they do it!! Because theyre our good sympathetic protagonists and not evil and scary like angry abused antagonistic henry! Who just also happened to be born evil, which is mighty convenient!

My point isnt to say that our heroes are evil or that their actions are comparable to that of vecnas, but it is to say that good, normal, sympathetic people are often closer to the (completely meaningless term now) "psychopaths" than we like to think we are and its because we are always looks at ourselves with rose tinted glasses, overestimating our own goodness. We just like to project our own flaws onto shadowy monsters or killers that hide in the darkness like freddy kreuger or michael meyers, or demonic children as we see in horror movies from now and in the past.

This is most definitely intentional because the confirmed initial inspo for stranger things is a movie that also makes a point similar to this: Denis Villeneuve's Prisoners.

As you said, Mike and El use each other because they are insecure teenagers, thats true. Because societal pressures made them do so- they are not 100% bad people for this. But the hypocrisy comes in when we project these actions (ranging from "using others" to "murder") onto the scapegoated "scary" "other" demographic villainized by horror media instead of acknowledging our own capacity to do awful things to others when backed into a corner and given no choice.

Hence, Vecna/Henry "holds up the mirror".

It's funny when ppl are pro mil/even + anti by/ler or anti gay!mike because "it wouldnt be fair to el! This happening would mean mike only used this girl who had no life experience and barely knew how to speak and strung her along so he can appear straight/make himself straight!" Like have u considered that maybe that might be the point. That mike did use el in the show thats about how conformity forces otherwise "good" "normal" people (aka mike being queer but also being white, comfortably middle class, and able bodied) to act like "psychopaths" and use others for their own benefit? In the show in which the latest season antagonist very explicitly said his goal is to "hold up the mirror" to people? The show that tries to subvert this idea that there is this legion of shadowy born-evil monsterous "psychopaths" in our society that we need to eradicate, an idea that's ever so present in 80s horror often in the form of ableism against "scary" mental illnesses despite how supposedly progressive the 80s was?

[saintone]

So i have a new svsss theory.

First of all some context. Im a literature student. I read all those boring works aclamed by the critics that dont say nothing, but tell you everything at the same time. And I kinda get why we think the Uliles is a literature masterpiece or why Kafka was such a genius.

But hear me out. MXTX? Fucking brilliant.

MXTX is a great writter, but her work are also filled with deeper meanings to explore, and every single plot line can be connected, has a meaning, everything is there bc se wants it to and bc it contributes to the story.

And for me, more than a fictional funny story, SVSSS is a work with the quality to become an all time literature classic. So hear me out.

Shen Jiu was the protagonist.

He was the protagonist on the original sotry, on Shang Qinghua's original story. He was the fucking protagonist!

First of all, he had the looks. Natural elegance and otherwordly attractiveness. Sj was cononically a man whose appearence stuck out.

Second, he was powerful. Sj was "chosen one" level of powerful. He was a kid, showing signs of a promising cultivator's future, a kind of innate strengh that wasnt found in any other character of the story (ygy and lbh had to cultivate years, before they could show such phisical manifestation of their powers).

Third, his realtionship with Ygy. Like, that's some main character shit! "If theres something like loyalty on this life, i will give all of mine to tpu". Ygy going to look for him, dying under thousands of arrows? Greek tragedias pale in front of the lifes Qu Ge and Xiao Jiu, "big brother seven and little slave nunber nine".

Also, he was an orphan, and he was humble. The first atribute relates to the hero's construction in traditional fiction storys, the hero of unknown original who is actually a long lost son (*cought* Luo Binghe *cought*). But an orphan hero is a pretty common figure in fiction.

The second one gains more meaning in relation to MXTX's works and chinese culture. In her works, we commonly have characters from humble begginings who are judged by their upbringings. This is perfectly clear in MDZS, as Wei Wuxian is cursed and blamed for everything he dies,: but his worst sin is that he was a commoner. And the hatred he recieves contrasts heavily with the love the Jianghu holds for Zhan Lang. If you take the time to look for it, there ate many implicantions related to social class diferences in MXTX's works.

Shen jiu was hated by Liu Qingge for his "sketchy ways". And Sqq's ways were nothing but a reflection from his upbringing: a poor, homeless slave child.

It also isn't a coincidence that Shen Yuan was a rich kid. Like, just think about it! Some people think that Sy and Sqq were " the same souls with different lives and if Sqq life had been better he could have been like sy". But like, have u read Sy?

Shen Yuan was a rich kid who never worked in his life, and spent his family's money on online novels. Shen Jiu was a slave who was abused and fought with thooth and nail every day of his life to assure himself he wouldn't have to suffer ever again. A genious, who knew how to be safe on the streets even as an infant, with unbreakable morals, who protected the only one he loved even till the end (acá ygy). If it wasnt for ygy, shen jiu wouldn evem had gotten in trouble, in the first place.

Not to offend any Sy's fans but he is kinda selfish, and dumb (in a loving way oc). And he had zero, ZERO emotional responsability. Sy didnt gave SHIT about what anyone felt (bc to him, everyone were just "characters"). But he also was kinda emotionally constipated. His only priorities in SVSSS were being safe, and looking good and "elegant".

Like come on, the man was the living representation of that meme that says "everything's fine", whole the ropa is on fire.

So yeah, sy and sj arent the same soul (we can have two protagonist without reducing one into the other, but this is a convo for a other day i guess). Sy and Sj are actually opposites, and here the great MXTX gives us another wonderful jab. Bc Sy was believed to be kind, when everything he did was for his own safety, meamwhile Sj was truly kind, often risking himself to save others around him (aka Liu fucking Qingge), but he was always misunderstood.

And Sy was rich, had an easy life and didnt need to do any work (he was born in a good enviorment, in both worlds, having everything handled to him). Meanwhile Sj struggled all his life never attaining a true sence of safety.

This is why I say MXTX is true a genius. Sy and Sj are comppleate opposites for each others. If you analize her works deeper, you will start to find all these small connections that give meaning to every single action.

Now, back to the start.

Shen Jiu is our protagonist. But he fails. It's no one's fault, jut at the same time it's everyone's.

Yue QingYuan didn't come back. Shen Jiu waited for too long. Que Haitang didn't realize. Qiu Jianluo was a sick (rich) fuck. Wu Yanzi was there. Shen Jiu was human, and he made mistakes, and he was afraid.

Shen Jiu never gave up: he fought, he grew, he shone like the protagonist he was, unbreakeble, a 'protagonist halo' that protected him even as he went through hell.

But it didn't protect him psychologically.

And everyone around him didnt see what he really was. Instead of a protagonist, Sqq was tilted as the villan.

Now this is my personal theory, but the system couldnt allow a story with no main character. He has to replace Shen Jiu.

Enters: original Luo Binghe. Now lets analize Binghe. He was poor and humble at the beggining, but he had noble blood. Powerful blood. And a mother, a privilege young Sj didnt obtain.

Lbh becomes the protagonist, and here is when PIDW starts.

But Lbh also fails! Bc true heroes avoid darkness, dont fall into revenge. True heroes forgive, they become better people that their masters. Lbh is actually a worse versión of Sj, not a better one. If sj supoosedly preyed on women, lbh had a harem full of them. If sj hurt his martial brithers, lgh destroyed his sect. If sj was a menance to the Jianghu, Lbh literaly destroyed it.

And Lbh himself isnt even happy at the end, his Sjizhun dead, the world at his hands, a harem surrounding him and the deep, emptiness in his heart that cannot be fieled by anything.

Og! Lbh fails, and this is where Sy comes in.

Bc sj's presence on the story made such a mess, the system chooses someone who is his compleate opposite. Rich, selfish and dumb. And then it gets rid of Og! Shen Qingqiu

Sj dissapeares.

Did he die? We dont know. Is he in another world? Does he get his happy ending, does someone remember him?

We dont know.

We will never know.

Sj was rhe main character of this story, but now he is missing. And everyone else goes on without him. Everyone else becomes a person, something more than a character, as Sy realizes that he is in for this world and the people around him have hearts and feelings too.

Shen Jiu doest get that. He doesnt become a person, he doesnt get his arc. He is nothing more that a pitiful character.

This is why i think SVSSS is a masterpiece.

Shall we mourn forever the protagonist we lost. He didnt fit the narrative, thus he had to be taken down.

[liquidstar]

absolutely no one asked but im thinking about the “i love emilia” scene and how misunderstood it is by nerdboy fans that kind of miss the whole point of the series. subaru’s rejection of rem is narratively a rejection of the typical isekai power fantasy. 

when subaru was first summoned to lugnica, he instantly assumed he was getting his very own isekai power fantasy, he thought he would have the coolest magic powers and his own harem and whatnot. and well, those tropes are still somewhat there, but its a deconstruction so hes not really getting what he wants. not only is his return by death ability a very very isolating one but also a painful and traumatic one, and its not even a flashy cool superpower, its literally one that only works so well because hes weak enough to constantly die.

so by arc 3 subaru feels somewhat robbed. he always had a bit of a tendency to treat the people around him like characters (literally, he calls people NPCs) and he had a tendency to boil them down to tropes and sort of expect that they act a certain way, that things would go a certain way because hes The Protagonist. but things arent going according to his script. the final nail in the coffin is when he gets humbled by julius at the royal selection hearing, julius is literally the “knight of knights”, an ideal subaru will never have.

subaru claims he entered the royal selection hearing and fought julius for emilia, but emilia sees right through this and rightfully calls him out- she tells him he only did it for himself, that he doesnt really know her, that hes constantly projecting his own will onto her. shes right in every sense, subaru has placed her on a pedistal and can no longer treat her like a person, the “special treatment” he talks about isnt something she wants but he doesnt care what she wants. he only cares about what he thinks she wants, whatever works best for his fantasy. he’s literally objectifying her, its not subtle. so she packs her bags and leaves.

so subaru sulks in the capital while rem watches over him. and rem stays with him and supports him and comforts him despite his terrible fucking disposition- arc 3 subaru becomes borderline unlikable at times, especially when he decides that the witch cult attack on roswaal’s manor is a good thing because he can play the part of the hero and save emilia and force her into a princess role once again (remember shes running for KING). but eventually hes faced with the grim reality of the situation, like, its really fucking drilled into his head how messed up this is. 

and he realizes hes not a hero. he breaks down in front of rem and confesses what a pathetic loser he actually is, how stupid and lame hes been, how much he hates himself. and she tells him that she loves him and....

actually, let me go on a tangent here, im going to skip ahead to arc 4 because... arc 4 subaru actually perfectly mirrors arc 3 rem. so forgive this rambling for not being linear. anyway, in arc 4 subaru has overcome his feelings of entitlement, but he loses rem, the person who encouraged him, the person who he still did love very much (maybe not in the same way, but he did love her). and now he hates himself twice as much. he hates himself so much that hes actively suicidal. 

his most obvious parallel for suicidality is beatrice, yes, but the way in which he’s self-sacrificial parallels rem. rem, who literally calls subaru her “reason to die” and throwing herself into danger- thats the same shit subaru does in arc 4 to save everyone. subaru sees no value in his life in arc 4, neither does rem. for some reason people ignore rem’s inferiority complex, her lack of self confidence due to just being ram’s little sister. ram is LITERALLY the reincarnation of a god so we cant blame rem for feeling a bit... sidelined compared to her twin. her love for subaru is selfless, but selfless to a fault.

but subaru is also a fantasy for rem; one of the series biggest themes is “self recognition through the other”- essentially the way people see you vs the way you see yourself, and how in a sense both of those are equally real. rem literally sees subaru as her hero, she sees him the way that he expected himself to be seen when he came into this world, she sees him as the fantasy he wants to live out, and as her own fantasy as well. she literally tells him about the fantasy life she imagined for them in the future and everything. 

subaru initially offered her this fantasy in an attempt to run away from the events at the manor, he told her they could run away together and live out their lives. and rem rejected him, because her love is selfless, because she understands that this fantasy isnt right- she puts that over her desires. and she still confesses her love, to show them that hes worthy of it for who he is too. 

and through this its made even more clear that rem IS the fantasy, the girl that would stick by you no matter what, worship the ground you walk on, see you as a perfect power fantasy hero no matter how plain you are. but shes still a realistic character, she only works as a fantasy if you refuse to see her as one (like subaru used to) and ignore the fact that her love is also flawed, self-destructive, and co-dependent one. meanwhile emilia is the reality, the girl subaru cant force into a box, wont solely depend on him, and wont be projected upon- she demands to be her own person, with every fiber of her being, because we all know how much emilia hates being treated like someone shes not.

so... after some encouragement from rem, subaru chooses not to take the easy (slothful) route. he tells rem straight-out “i love emilia” and this time he means it in a true way.

and a million nerdboys who wanted to fuck rem cried their eyes out that night because they wanted to live the fantasy vicariously through him, missing the entire point of the series. subaru crushed the fantasy by choosing the reality. 

and the character development really reallt stuck- arc 4 subaru and emilia are frankly kind of adorable. not perfect given the horribly traumatic shit going on, but when emilia had her mental breakdown in the trial and started to act incredibly dependent on subaru, he was absolutely horrified to see her so traumatized because he knows she would never want this- he no longer wants her to depend on him especially at the cost of her on sanity. and subaru would later reference rem’s “i love you” speech to him by giving a similar one to emilia, giving her the same encouragement rem gave him. 

[garak]

raidens relationship to gender is so interesting because its so entrenched in the politics of mgs that trying to explain it makes me sound insane. like how do i phrase “raiden is the only main character to ever have a steady or loving relationship with a woman which is a point against the idea of him as a masculine character” without having to then explain the entire basis of how masculinity is constructed in mgs and how it both subverts and is deeply rooted in traditional gender roles especially the concepts of gender found in midcentury american action films. raiden is the pinnacle of how traditional western gender roles and weird mgs gender roles clash and end up creating this odd portrayal that is confusing looking at it either way. like obviously you have the fact that he was made as an agendered character, specifically designed to read as both man and woman, so the visual gendering is fucked. even after hes established as biologically male (which mgs2 goes weirdly out of its way to do) his portrayal in mgs4 is arguably even more feminine with the long stiletto nails and heels. his nigh-hysterical need for reassurance and attention in mgs4 also feels very gendered, but hes ditched the long hair and is now using the sword — swords and knives are hugely phallic symbols especially in relation to raiden. like its very blatant google mgs4 vamp vs raiden because that shit is textual. so his use of the blade from then on is masculinising, but he also carries that shit in his mouth at one point and his fights are so gay its preposterous, so it essentially cancels it out. ocelot’s guns can be a symbol of his masculinity despite being phallic symbols because he wasnt like, getting stabbed and spurting white (blood?) goo from the penetration point. raiden was and it was not good so obviously thats a point against his manliness. honestly, a lot of the things that are associated with masculinity are weirdly reversed in mgs otherwise, so besides blatant imagery everything else needs specific series context. like, its okay for men to show emotions but not normal for them to express any real love or affection towards women — snake snarkily hitting on women is just fine, but he can only express his genuine emotions to other men. by framing our ultra-masculine protagonist this way, it sets up raiden, who genuinely cares about his wife and child, as feminine by contrast since he is willing to form actually meaningful relationships with women. its a part of the lone wolf rugged hero thing kojima loves so much, but ultimately our heroes arent alone, they just only have deep connections to other men. whereas this kind of eternal bachelor uninterested in women thing would typically be feminizing, and raidens nuclear family breadwinner father white picket fence dream would be the traditionally masculine choice, these are reversed. i dont actually have a conclusion here i just think the way gender is portrayed in mgs especially in relation to family is very interesting and raiden is like the epitome of that

[taki118]

List of Reincarnated into the Villainess of an Otome/Romance Novel Series I Like

Soooooo I’ve gotten sucked into the very specific isekai subgenre?trope? Of girl gets reincarnated into an otome game or romance novel she loves but is the villainess. It’s kind funny how similar these all are but at the same time so different. Now these arent all the titles just the ones I’ve read for at least a volume and like. (if asked i might make a list of the ones that failed for me). I’m gonna separate by types. and if you know of any other titles please do tell me.

Received Past Memories during Childhood

(The story starts with the MC remembering her past life as a child and growing up with the knowledge)

I Reincarnated into an Otome Game as a Villainess With Only Destruction Flags...

So this one has a good deal of traction since it has an anime adaption currently running, but I’ll be honest it’s not one of favs. This series is primarily a harem comedy and most of the jokes deal with the MC’s expectations from the game not matching her new reality and not realizing why, which can be very fun, if one note. The characters are likeable which is why I keep reading but I think some other titles on this list use the concept far better.  There is also a spin off version where the MC doesnt get her old memories until later in life and has to deal with the actions of the game character, but it’s fairly the same you arent missing much if you dont read it. 

The Villainess Want to Marry a Commoner

So in this one the MC isn’t trying to avoid a bad end rather she’s very excited to be able to romance her favorite NPC whom she wished was romance-able. (which honestly mood) I’m not very far in but it really takes the whole this is a game the furthest as there are stat checks and the MC basically carried over all the items and skills acquired in her past playthroughs.

Survive as the Hero’s Wife

A web series, this one takes place in a book and the main pair are married as children and the MC plays double agent for the series antagonist to keep her and the LI safe. It’s fairly involved with a larger cast of characters but I’ll be honest this is one of the titles I feel would be stronger if it was just a straight fantasy series, the whole Isekai aspect feels like it’s there just to make the plot move quicker. But all around a good read. 

Fiancée’s Observation Log of the Self-proclaimed Villainess

Now this one has a fun twist on the formula in that it’s told from the perspective of the love interest. Some of the faults other titles are plague with are avoided here as the main character himself has no knowledge of the world being a game, his fiance does but while she’s happy to tell him she’ll be a great villainess and get him a happy ending with the heroine she never tells him why thats so important so he’s left in the dark and thereby so are we. I will give a warning there is  bit of fat shaming in this as the original games villainous was chubby  but this version is skinny, like its not awful but its not the best implication that bad is chubby and good is skinny.

The Evil Lady's Hero

Another webseries set in a novel while we dont see the MC in childhood (save for some flashbacks) it’s stated she’s had her old memories since then. What I really like about this series is the MC’s personality and set up. So she died well into her 20s  and as such she is a bit more mature and levelheaded than most MC’s, her plan was to avoid the main cast of the books as much as possible but ends up drunkenly sleeping with the male lead leading to them dating. Her thought being I’ll just enjoy this for now and let him break up with me when he meets the heroine, all good. The pair play well off each other and I’m curious to see where the story goes.

The Result of Being Reincarnated is Having a Master-Servant Relationship with the Yandere Love Interest

Now this one has a lot of fun with this concept as there are two other characters who were reincarnated like the MC. Because this game had only yandere love interests even the “good” endings arent that good, the MC also has limited knowledge as she didnt get to play all the way through so she feels less omnipotent than other protagonists, and along with not being the only person displaced it gives the series a nice refreshing feel.  

Received Past Memories as Young Adult (The story starts with the MC remembering her past life after/during the events of the game/book)

I’m a Villainous Daughter, so I’m going to keep the Last Boss

So I actually really love this series and wanna read the light novel version. The MC regains her memories during the beginning of the bad end for the villainess and thinking quickly saves face to run off and find the main antagonist of the  game the demon king who happens to be a secret route on the second play through. Its a very fun read but gets a little dark in later chapters I wont spoil cause its good but there is an attempted rape scene. 

Simply Good Sense for a Duke’s Daughter

This one kills me cause the world building and characters are so strong and dense it’s actually weakened by the fact that the MC was reincarnated is really just kinda brushed off most the time. As you get more and more invested the only real purpose her being reincarnated into an otome has is like some ideas for products to sell and how to make things that dont exist in this world yet. Like I wont say I don’t enjoy it but I think I’d enjoy it more if it was just a fantasy story. 

Beware the Villainess

God I love this webseries. The MC is just a delight as she decides she wont be evil but she wont be good either. What I like about this series is it kinda plays with the fact that the setting is a trashy romance novel cause as the MC learns more about the main characters of the novel she finds that the descriptions in the book dont match up because it’s very surface level. Example a merchant whos said to be very smart and savvy in the books is actually rather easy to outsmart, MC realizes it’s cause the writer only ever wrote he was smart never HOW he was smart. I would def give this one a read its a lot of fun. 

For Certain Reasons, The Villainess Noble Lady Will Live Her Post-Engagement Annulment Life Freely

This is again another series I think would be stronger if it was straight fantasy. The MC of this story actually has no idea the world is an otome game, she was  nurse in her past life and uses that knowledge for the betterment of the land, (though actually its hard to tell if she was really reincarnated or just has the memories of this person) The story could have moved just as well if the MC was given like a medical textbook from a mysterious other world. But the characters are fun so its not awful just not one of my favorites. 

Reincarnated but not as Villainess 

I Am Troubled That My Fiance Is a Villain

The MC is reincarnated into an otome game with her memories as a child but as a side character, she ends up endearing herself and becoming engaged to the games villain character. Its very cute because she doesnt have to worry about a bad end she doesnt try to interfere much just keep those around her safe. 

Seduce The Villain's Father

Web series MC gets reincarnated into a novel as a minor character, as the story takes place prior to the events of the book she changes things to keep her new sister safe and uses the opportunity to try and avoid more tragic events. Its not bad I’d say the idea itself is interesting though its a little uncomfortable she calls the male lead “father” 

A Villain Is A Good Match For A Tyrant

Ok so this web series is kinda hilarious and I do have to spoil a little cause the person reincarnated is NOT our lead, its our villain. So this person was actually the author of the story, she had written a novel about a girl being reincarnated into the bastard daughter of a lord who gets engaged to a tyrant and has to pretend to be evil to stay safe from his enemies, and the author is so PISSED she reincarnated into a random priestess. Its so weirdly meta. The MC is the lord’s bastards and the events play out just like story only she doesnt get her body taken over. This series is very fun, cant wait to see how it goes. 

Anyway this is my list if you have suggestions for me I’ll check them out. Will probably make another list later. 

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Cinderella Is Dead by Kalynn Bayron finished: 10.01.2021

Review: 3/5

Resume:

It's 200 years since Cinderella found her prince, but the fairytale is over. Sophia knows the story though, off by heart. Because every girl has to recite it daily, from when she's tiny until the night she's sent to the royal ball for choosing. And every girl knows that she has only one chance. For the lives of those not chosen by a man at the ball . are forfeit. But Sophia doesn't want to be chosen - she's in love with her best friend, Erin, and hates the idea of being traded like cattle. And when Sophia's night at the ball goes horribly wrong, she must run for her life. Alone and terrified, she finds herself hiding in Cinderella's tomb. And there she meets someone who will show her that she has the power to remake her world.

My Review

Oh, this one. I had so much to say about this one that I started doing book reviews just so I can talk about this one. Let’s divide this into writing, mystery plot, romance plot, and characters just so I can talk about everything properly.

Writing: I have so little to complain about in this area but I have to start talking about how slow was the beginning. It took 8 days o pick up the book again because the beginning was so slow. I see that she needed to build the world, give us a clear depiction of how terrible was Lille and the life of the women there, but it took almost 10 chapters for the book to pick up a pace. And the total absence of hope right from the start was agonizing. Yeah, Lille is awful, they were all subdued, but we as readers need some sparkle of hope, besides the fact that we know it has 200 other pages, to keep reading. It was tormenting slow in the beginning but once it started was so NICE. I felt completely submerged in the thoughts and life of Sophia. So much that I only let go of the book when I finished.

Mystery plot: It took a long while for the mystery to arrive but when it came was nice. It didn’t give me any head-splitting plot twist. I actually had figured out most of it by half of the book but it gave me that nice feeling of being smart by figuring it out, so it wasn’t boring. Since my last real plot twist was the one from Girl, Serpent, Thorn, this was kind of pale by comparison. It was big shoes to fill anyway (but I like Sophia much more than I liked Soraya, not gonna lie). It was still nice, and the whole thing abot the King being the villain and the stepmother being the hero was so good and I needed that.

Romance plot: Did I like Constance way more than I liked Erin? Yes. Does that make Sophia and Constance a well-developed couple? No. I do understand the pull here, Constance was everything Erin wasn’t for Sophia, Constance believed in her, supported her, she was by all standards the best choice. But Kalynn gave me chapter after chapter in the beginning about how Sophia was madly, desperately, in love with Erin. Kalynn built that. And then she hopes I just accept a romance with Constance because she is a better match? It’s really hard. I do think Sophia and Constance are amazing together but I wish the writer had given them more soft moments together or didn’t give them this “I will die for you” love at all. Honey, you are trying to deconstruct this toxic worldview on fairy tales and then give me a first glance kind of love? Don’t do me dirty like that. I want the yearning, the soft moments, the brush of knuckles. Give me everything or give me nothing, give me a well-constructed love, or don’t give me love at all.

Characters: And on that note, let me rage about the dirty she did on my Constance. This woman was fighting the fucking patriarchy all by her-FUCKING-self and you wanna tell me she didn’t have any fire in her anymore? That Sophia was what moved her? I do understand the protagonist element here, but please, give it a break. It was possible to make Sophia shine without making Constance pale by comparison. I liked Sophia so much from the very beginning (I love anarchists) but I also liked Constance. The characters were all so charismatic, but I will not support the dirty made on Erin and my beautiful ginger princess. Erin was the classic closeted gay, she was SUFFERING, Sophia was a bitch for trying to force her out of the closet. I understand them both on this stand, Sophia wanted someone who would face the world to love her, Erin just wanted to be safe in an unsafe life. When you villanize Erin like that you arent any better than the writer who made the stepsisters villains. That scene was unnecessary, Erin was used as an accessory to Constance and Sophia’s very poorly written love story and I will not stand for that.

All in all, it was a fun book to read after the whole slow pace at the beginning but there were too many flaws to make to the top of my shelf. I don’t regret reading it but I won’t be reading it again.