#i love jc as a character but lwj hates his guts

[lanqin]

idk if i should even tag this as a headcanon bc it’s pretty obvious to me (and anyone with a lick of reading comprehension) that lwj would not get along with jc post canon. ever. not as is, at least. 

jc would have to come to cloud recesses on his knees and begging for forgiveness. not from him but from wwx. and we all know jc is way too proud to accept he was a dickhead and wrong because honestly?? he feels justified, he has a lot of reasons to feel wronged and defensive. he feels he’s justified in hurting wwx, and wwx accepts it because he feels guilty so of course lwj is angry for his husband. 

that’s kind of the point of having nuanced interpersonal conflicts in the story. just a thought.

[crossdressingdeath]

"Boys will be boys" logic is interesting since WWX himself basically uses that exact excuse in the book when he tells LWJ not to take JC's homophobic rant/assault seriously in the ancestral hall bc that's just how JC is, as if WWX himself wasn't furious when JC targeted LWJ in that scene. A lot of WWX's famed unreliable narration is rationalizing the crazy shit JC does but sometimes people tend to take it at face value.

Yes, exactly! That is such a huge thing. WWX spends so much time telling himself (and through himself the audience) that oh, it can’t be helped when JC mistreats him, JC is just like that, it’s totally fine, he doesn’t mind, and we see how that viewpoint was encouraged and strengthened by the people around him, especially JYL (sorry Shijie but it’s true). Hell, you could argue that this particular aspect of his character was entirely her doing, given YZY just thinks he should be subordinate to JC in all things and JFM mostly ignores JC’s behaviour; it’s just JYL going for the “oh boys will be boys, you’re strong and always smiling, you can take it” angle.

...Actually, let’s go into that a bit more because it very much gets buried under the “best sister” shit; I am prepared to argue that JYL consistently taking JC’s side did serious damage to WWX. Like, she was the only Jiang who consistently showed him affection and support and he convinced himself that it was unconditional! But the “unconditional” aspect was an illusion entirely based on his ability to consistently and convincingly pretend that JC wasn’t hurting him. WWX isn’t stupid, I don’t doubt for a second that he knew JYL would take JC’s side if it came down to it. She always takes JC’s side from day one. Literally; she hears WWX say he’ll take the blame for JC chasing him out of Lotus Pier and getting WWX’s leg broken while all JC did was come out looking for WWX personally (instead of doing the smart and more helpful thing and getting adults to help) because he was scared he’d get in trouble and he got a little scrape because he was running through the woods like an idiot because, again, he was too scared of getting in trouble to GET ACTUAL HELP THAT WASN’T A CHILD and she’s like “Yeah, that sounds reasonable and fair and not like a really, really bad precedent to set with a kid whose safety relies on my family liking him”. ...There’s also an aspect of “Sure, it can’t hurt to let the kid my mother very clearly hates take responsibility for something that he could be punished for by someone with a motive to take everything possible as a wrongdoing on WWX’s part”, but to be fair at this point she doesn’t know YZY will whip WWX for literally anything she can even slightly suggest is any sort of wrongdoing on WWX’s part. And let’s not pretend WWX wasn’t punished for JC getting hurt; come on, it’s YZY, she punishes him for sunbathing.

This is a running thing going forward in their dynamic, too! JC does something horrible, JYL immediately starts in on the “Oh, boys will be boys, A-Cheng might get upset if you call him out on his shit” shtick if WWX shows the slightest trace of dissatisfaction with being treated like garbage, WWX smiles and forgives JC for whatever he did without question, there’s a period of calm, the cycle repeats. JYL very much teaches WWX that he cannot EVER show any unhappiness with JC’s threats and insults. If he ever shows so much as a shred of anger or sadness or generally being upset at the way JC mistreats him JYL takes JC’s side. At most she’ll tell JC that maybe he should back off a little while basically telling WWX to grin and bear it because JC might be slightly upset if anyone ever calls him out on being horrible to literally everyone. And don’t even get me started on the whole “Oh you’re always smiling” bullshit, talk about teaching a mistreated orphan that he has literally no right to look sad about anything ever. Like, let me put it this way: WWX doesn’t even feel he can go to JYL about JC TRYING TO KILL HIM. That’s a lot? It’s a lot? And it never really gets discussed in any way? WWX doesn’t feel like he can tell his supposed sister who supposedly loves him unconditionally that her brother tried to murder him like three times and when the third time comes up JYL takes JC’s side because JC’s arm got broken in the process of the staged fight where JC stabbed WWX in the gut and that’s fine and healthy apparently. Stan WQ, the actual best sister (god I love WQ).

Anyway, now that I’m done enraging the fandom with my tangent about how much JYL sucks as a sister to WWX... Yeah, WWX insists that JC’s attitude can’t be helped because JC’s just like that even when he very clearly doesn’t buy that? He’s obviously pissed when JC goes after LWJ to the point of genuinely going after JC for it... but when they get away from JC he goes into the “Oh, he can’t help it, don’t get mad at him”. And in this particular case part of it is him panicking because JC’s homophobic ranting (and LWJ’s clear anger at it) left him questioning his and LWJ’s feelings and the mutuality thereof, but it also... really does throw every other time he insists JC’s behaviour is fine into question. Like, we know he’s not buying his own line in this scene! He was furious at JC! He’s still furious and upset! But he feels the need to cover for JC. Even after he’s realized that JC’s behaviour wasn’t okay, he still feels like he has to protect him from anyone else getting angry at him. WWX knows JC’s behaviour isn’t okay and that it’s not fair that JC treats him the way he does and I’d argue (especially at this point in the story) that he deserves better than JC’s treatment... but he still insists that JC is just like that and it’s fine.

That throws every single time WWX smiles through JC’s mistreatment into question, I’d say; we know he’ll react this way even when he knows that JC’s behaviour isn’t okay, so who’s to say he ever isn’t aware that JC’s behaviour isn’t okay? In CQL XZ does an excellent job of showing that at least in that continuity he is extremely done with JC’s shit even from when they’re fifteen; the novel is as far as I remember a little less clear, but it’s still pretty obvious that he’s not enjoying the way JC treats him. He knows that the way JC treats him is hurtful and upsetting and sometimes even frightening (think of the times JC threatens him with dogs and he’s clearly scared, which is a whole other thing because either he’s so scared of dogs that even the threat terrifies him or he has zero doubt that JC for sure would set dogs on him, which is a big thing either way and also I’m still not over how CQL JYL laughs when JC threatens WWX with dogs even though WWX is clearly scared and she totally would’ve laughed if that happened in the novel too but showing it so blatantly and then never actually getting into how messed up it is is just unnecessary), but he feels like he has to smile through it and cover for JC, just like when they were nine.

Anyway yeah, for a fandom so obsessed with WWX being an unreliable narrator the MDZS/CQL fandom sure does miss a lot of times where WWX is actually being unreliable, huh.

[vrishchikawrites]

Novel quotes that were sitting in my drafts and my thoughts 

It is canon that JC’s own people are afraid of approaching him with their concerns. The people of his territory don’t approach the Jiangs for help unless the matter is deadly. This is supported by novel text. This is the state of YungmengJiang after it is one of the remaining three great sects, an economic, political, and martial powerhouse.

Ch 92 - Longing Part 3 (Exiled Rebels translation)

The owner, “That I’m not so sure about. Anyways, the temple’s quite popular. In Yunping City, no matter what someone runs into, we’d all go there and pray for the Guanyin’s protection. I sometimes go there and light a few sticks of incense too.”

Wei WuXian asked, “Then why don’t you go find the cultivational sect that’s in charge of this region?”

He only remembered after he asked. Wasn’t the cultivational sect in charge of this region precisely the YunmengJiang Sect?

Yet, the owner curled her lips, “Go find them? How dare we?”

Wei WuXian, “Oh? Why not?”

The owner, “Young Masters, you’re not from Yunping City so you don’t know. The Jiang Sect is responsible for all of us along the Yunmeng area. The Sect Leader’s got quite a bad temper. It’s almost frightening. His subordinate’s said so a long time ago. Only one sect is in charge of such a large area. Each day, there are almost a hundred cases of small ghosts or other creatures pulling pranks on the living and all that. If every single small thing had to be dealt with immediately, would there be enough time and energy? Those that don’t kill anyone aren’t malign spirits, and we’re not supposed to disturb them with trivial matters that aren’t malign spirits.” She complained, “What is this supposed to mean? Wouldn’t it be too late if we waited until somebody’s died to find them?!

No way would WWX let a his sect be actively feared by people they are supposed to protect.

There are a few other examples that I can’t really spend time to find. There was no lack of economic resources at this point. I don’t think there was any sort of disadvantage even after the SSC, because they would’ve gotten back their money after it and divided Wen assets among themselves. Yungmeng would have gotten a fair share of the plunder because it was one of the main sects active in the war.

JC had every opportunity at this point to say, ‘look we owe these particular Wens a life debt.’ That’s all he has to say to have honor on his side. They don’t need to risk anything because even JGS wouldn’t be able to say anything against a debt of honor. NMJ and LXC would both support him. 

JGS was only able to get so far because JC played right into his hands. There are several scenes with JC letting his anger and envy get the best of him. One in particular, where some cultivators gossip that people only joined YunmengJiang because of WWX and his power. JC refused to speak up as a direct response to that.

(WWX has already proven he doesn’t forget about debts)

That very same conversation indicates that by the time Pheonix Mountain situation happened, YunmengJiang was already in a good position. JGS didn’t take advantage of YMJ’s economic and martial weakness (the text indicates that they were sufficiently recovered by this point if i’m not mistaken). In fact, YMJ received a big influx of seasoned cultivators just after this incident and before WWX’s defection. He took advantage of JC’s insecurities and his willingness to cast WWX aside if it benefited his sect.

Jin GuangShan, “Sect Leader Jiang, Wei Ying is your right-hand man. You value him a lot. All of us know this. However, on the other hand, it’s hard to tell whether or not he actually respects you. In any case, I’ve been a sect leader for so many years and I’ve never seen the servant of any sect dare be so arrogant, so proud. Have you heard what they say outside? Things like how during the Sunshot Campaign the victories of the YunmengJiang Sect were all because of Wei WuXian alone—what nonsense!”

Going further back, my original point was - there was a foreshadowing of their ideological differences way back in the Dusk-Creek mountain incident.

Ch 52 - Courage Part 2 (Exiled Rebels translation)

Wei WuXian, “It’s alright if he hates me—I don’t hate him. I’ll get him onto my back the second I get hold of him. Could he possibly choke me to death while on my back?”

Jiang Cheng warned, “We aren’t even able to care for ourselves; how do we have the time to care about the trivialities of others?”

Wei WuXian, “First, this isn’t a triviality. Second, things like this, somebody will have to care about them, sooner or later!”

WWX’s first instinct is to help people. JC’s first instinct is to protect themselves. This keeps on happening again and again.

When they returned to the Lotus Pier, JC scolded WWX for trying to play the hero and was scolded by his own father to reconsider the words. (This wasn’t favoritism, this was a dad telling his son that scolding someone for saving people’s lives isn’t the right thing to do and he should consider his words)

Both of these incidences are just few of the many examples scattered throughout the novel. These are possibly the earliest indications of their ideologies being materially different. WWX would be an excellent second hand but he’s no Wen Zhuliu. If his leader doesn’t live up to his expectations of morality and righteousness, he isn’t going to stay. He may linger for a long while but eventually he’ll start to feel complicit and would want to take a different path. He fell in love with LWJ because LWJ was righteous and morally superior to others in the novel, after all.

So to conclude - JC actually didn’t want to help the Wens, text clearly states he hated them. This man planned and lead a siege even after seeing a small child at the BM.

YMJ wasn’t actually in that bad a state. It was recovering but so were the Jins. They didn’t get away from the war unscathed. YMJ had money and several new, trained cultivators.

Bear in mind, during their staged fight, JC gutted WWX while WWX broke his arm. As in, his intestines legit fell out. The fact that he recovered quickly doesn’t matter. It was a near fatal wound and WWX has very few resources at his disposal. He was living in near poverty. That trip to the BM is a grace that JC could give without spending too much effort.

idk if I have expressed my point properly. But it covers as many points as I can recall off the top of my head. Unless JC’s character changed in some significant ways, I still think they would eventually have a falling out. The are examples littered throughout the novel about their core ideals, their very character clashing in significant ways. 

[pocketfulofrecs]

This week’s Author Spotlight is on hauntedotamatone! This is an author who really knows the characters, and cares about them. Their post-canon fics are incredible with their take on wangxian. There is so much to admire in their fics. They don't just write well, they introduce something unique to every story. Very worthwhile.

They have written 52k words in 11 works, and can be found @hauntotamatone here on tumblr.

Their fics:

wayside - [explicit | 5.2k | wwx gets hurt and lwj takes care of him]

open the yawning grave - [mature | 3.2k | horror where WWX sees devastated version of himself]

wayside redux (our post) - [mature | 3.2k | same as wayside, without the pee]

keeping score (our post) - [teen | 6.7k | wwx and jc duel, post canon]

bellflowers (our post) - [explicit | 1.9k | rule 63 pwp]

glittering, red and gold - [mature | 3.1k | wangxian get revenge on jgs]

wind and rain - [explicit | 4.2k | wip | dragonji]

in this lifetime (our post) - [mature | 2.5k | lwj has vivid nightmares]

bound - [mature | 1.3k | wangxian are captured by wen chao]

Two Phrases You’ll Say - [mature | 19k | wwx is attacked in the burial mounds]

thin red smile - [teen | 799 words | post Guanyin temple, lwj cares for wwx]

Dee’s favourite: Honestly, it is very difficult to pick a favourite. I love keeping score. It is one of the first fics we recced on our blog. I like thin red smile because I love LWJ taking care of WWX. In this lifetime is so gut wrenching but also soft. Bellflowers is *sigh* lesbian Wangxian for the win. Don't ask me to choose.

Ju’s favourite: I’m like Dee on this one. So. Hard. To. Choose. keeping score never fails to put a smile on my face, every time I reread it. Bellflowers has amazing lesbian wangxian, and yeah! But wayside (or wayside redux)??? I absolutely loved established relationship LWJ taking care of WWX, and WWX knowing and trusting LWJ with that care and love.

The interview:

Q. When did you start writing fics? Did you have fandoms before this one?

A. I started writing fic without really knowing what fic was. I was about 10 or 11 and started writing my own endings for books I read that were tragic or had killed off my favourite characters. I never really participated in fandom before this, but I used to lurk on the edges of a few and read fic for them.

Q. What made you start writing for MDZS?

A. I fell in love with the characters and themes of the novel and just wanted to explore everything more! I could read another thousand pages of Wangxian just doing their thing post-canon and by now I think I might have done just that.

It was a really pleasant change from a lot of what I had been reading at the time which was mostly grimdark, bleak sci-fi/fantasy. I know most people wouldn’t point to MDZS as a typically happy story, but to me, the concepts presented are done in a way that leaves room for optimism and a hope for a better future with the next generation, as well as protagonists that do what they can in their own corner of the world to improve the lives of others.

Q. What’s your favourite fic you’ve written?

A. I think that keeping score is my favourite so far. It was the first fic I wrote where I had something I really wanted to say with it. Sizhui is an important character to me and even though there will never be true justice for him, he said what he had to say and he has people in his corner that will stand with him. I didn’t think there would be a positive response at all and was braced for a bunch of hate, so it was really surprising to me that a lot of people actually agreed with the ideas presented there.

Q. What’s your favourite type of fics to read?

A. It really depends on the day. Sometimes I want angst and tragedy and others (most of the time) I just want to roll around in fluff and love. I am a sucker for fics involving Wangxian and the juniors, as well as those that focus on the relationship between Wen Qing, Wen Ning and Wei Wuxian.

Q. What’s your favourite comment? Or type of comment?

A. I enjoy all comments! Even if I type out a reply and forget to send it :x I think my absolute favourites are those that share an emotional response, there’s nothing like the feeling of knowing your writing has reached someone.

Q. Who’s your favorite author?

A. I have so many! Narrowing it down to one would be pretty difficult, but the ones who really shaped the way I think about writing and whose works I’ll always go back to would be: Ursula K. Le Guin, Terry Pratchett, Madeline Miller, Toni Morrison, Haruki Murakami and now MXTX.

Q. Do you have any advice for new authors?

A. Write what you want to read and as much of it as you care to. It’s so much easier and smoother as a process when you write something you want to see and writing as often as you can will build up your skill and confidence in your own work.

Q. What do you think is the most important element in writing? Plot, characterization, relationship?

A. I think these are all vital, but characterization is the foundation of all the rest. It informs everything else, how the characters react to the events of the plot and how they react to each other.

~

Check out their stories on ao3 and remember…

Comments and kudos feed the author’s soul.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

[1/?] Sorry for venting. I just saw some bad takes that gave me a lot of feelings. Personally, JC stresses me out every time he comes on screen, but I don't mind it when JC fans say fan-typical things like how they like JC because he wears purple, or is grumpy, or they think he's hot, or that they ship x*ch*ng because the cql actors have nice jawlines. They're harmless, fun takes, and while I don't agree with some of them, I see where they're coming from

Hello there anon, vent away as that is what my blog is open for as I love/hate on Jiang Cheng as he is in the plot, as well as all of my beef with what has been done to him for the EN side of the fanbase! I am more than fine listening and engaging with the unsavory "unpopular" discussions of his canon behavior and this goes for anyone of course that needs an open play area. I'll try to engage with what you have sent point by point as succinctly as I can.

[2/?] (some of these are obviously crack, and I am a fan of a few problematic faves). But then there are stans that just have to put other characters down to make JC look good. Like, I think some fans take their freedom of interpretation for granted because most of these takes aren't even labeled 'headcanon,' 'ooc,' or 'crack' anymore. Stans feel that their interpretations are valid, and while they are, valid =/= canon, and they're treating these takes as canon, which becomes popular fanon.

I enjoy Jiang Cheng for what he is, however as I had said it took me another reread to get to my stance of him being the negative mirror to Lan Wangji's positive and my comfort with that for the story once I realized what purpose he served. He is only insofar tragic in regards to his circumstances, but it does not absolve him for what he is at his core (no pun, but I can make a very nice metaphor that even with a piece of Wei Wuxian in him he is still forever unable and unwilling to stand by him equally all while stagnating where as Lan Wangji is able to flourish, grow and mature with nothing of import left from Wei Wuxian in a technical sense). As for ships, I am a little dirty Xicheng whore for fun and can say there is a sense of entertainment for me making it work with two people where one is wildly ignorant and the other wildly rabid. But that is outside of what is established as canon in the work and I always try to keep the two strictly separate due to the skew fanon perpetuates.

3/?] And now, it's not clear what part of the fanon references canon JC or the canon events of mdzs. JC is an asshole; I don't like him as a person, but I do think that he's a complex character motivated by many issues (sup, YeeZY), which makes him fascinating to explore. Unfortunately, erasing his culpability also removes his agency. JC should be allowed to be an asshole character who makes his own decisions even if they're the wrong ones. He has made his own tragedy by constantly casting Wei Wuxian as the villain of his life.

Now thanks to you I will be using YeeZY to forever and now to acknowledge Madam Yu (this is your fault for the new tag). From a standing from storytelling I agree that he is complex in the Jianghu for MDZS. Where in the usual political intrigue of Wuxia, he would be the mustache twirling villain that is outright unforgivable in narration, it is by favor of Wei Wuxian's narration that has an early steeping of empathy for him. And he is not meant to be seen as ultimately sympathetic, the work builds up his hate against Wei Wuxian who tries to rationalize it all several times until he is finally unable to. Jiang Cheng is the antithesis to Lan Wangji and the false bait to get attached to in Wei Wuxian's first life. I will make the note their meeting in Yiling is lukewarm between both as they exchange nothing really in terms of conversation and all pleasantries are left in terms of Jiang Yanli for Wei Wuxian. By this point Wei Wuxian has already switched his yearnings of platonically wanting a part of Jiang Cheng's life, to subconscious romantic inclinations about Lan Wangji and the perceived loss of being in the other's life.

The very point of Jiang Cheng as the deconstruction, is that he has no passion in life despite his apparent exploits because he put a shadow to hang over himself as an excuse to say others think he is not good enough. He has no deeper motivations than pure selfishness by the end of the work and is pure frivolity that he has built up losing the meaning of his sect as a tradition. He had his agency (more than anyone I might add in the work due to his social position) that he used to build his reputation as a passive rich sect leader that has little to do with civilian problems.

4/?] And I think a JC, somehow, that realizes that he did something wrong and is working hard to change for the better and gain self-actualization to become that UWU best jiujiu the stans want him to be, who is ready to talk (not yell at) with WWX, apologize to him, and create a better, healthier relationship with him is a much more powerful reconciliation and happy ending than 'everyone is wrong and mean and they all apologize to JC, which magically gets rid of all his issues'.

He is forced out of culpability in reconciliation because simply put, his audience do not like the reality that relationships fray and dissolve with no further resolution other than we as adults both need to move on for safety and good health. It is not acceptable in real life and fiction is allowed to place that also in it's thematic relationships. He has a small, small spark of recognition at the end of the main story, however he himself seems to choose to ignore it, as change is hard and he has never taken to that well as was foreshadowed with his dogs and the idea of sharing a space with Wei Wuxian. To write this is an awful lot of work into his psyche which is not a nice place, he is a terrible being and downplaying that to make a sugar sweet person does not work instantaneously. He is the one responsible for the entire fallout with Wei Wuxian and he hysterically realizes that even as he tries to continue to blame Wei Wuxian.

The issue that I have with his current stan culture, is that they already view him as something he is not. They play at bicycle with all of the other protagonists that have positive traits that they strip as they see fit; Good affirming loving to children adult Lan Wangji, Self-sacrificing ultimately did it all for love and care Wei Wuxian, Hard exterior but softened to who they consider an annoyance Wen Qing, Loyal as partners in their exploits on the field and always have each others back Wen Ning. They even take Jin Guangyao's persona of playing damsel and using that as a positive to soften up Jiang Cheng into something he has never been for anyone for ships.

[5/5] Also, making WWX/WN/LWJ apologize just makes them look better than JC. Like, stans supposedly love JC, so they ahouldn't be lazy and work hard to give him actual character development. Again, I'm sorry for spamming your ask. It just really baffles me about where they get these 'hot' takes (All I'm going to say is that JC was ungrateful, and WN had a reason verbally dismantle him).

They see this, but, they will spin it in any way to excuse Jiang Cheng due to the story itself showing that he was in the wrong to everyone he flung accusations at and his hate. No one but him is at fault for his spite as he had gotten his revenge on the ones that had ruined Lotus Pier and killed his parents. His own resentment pitted him against good and well meaning people that he refused to help as he mimicked his mother's words about raising their heads higher out of goodness instead of keeping low and staying self-centered. There is the underlying criticism of taking individual arrogance as self-care at the cost of others. Each point that Wen Ning makes is exactly what Jiang Cheng himself knows as he hated Wei Wuxian for being something he could not be or even wanted to be. Jiang Cheng wants kindness but does not understand that kindness to others needs to be selfless and accept the hurt that can come with that in life. He encompasses the fall from the path of buddhist lifestyle, "The Three Poisons" to Wangxian's "Without Envy" at the stories end.

[6/5] P.S. I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it. I think it would be interesting to see what force of nature would push him through a character development because throwing a therapist at him would result in a murder.

"I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it."

They do not think he has to work for it, they say his tragedy is enough, while heaping accusations against Wei Wuxian and saying his own are not enough to absolve him. Something Wei Wuxian has never denied and told all present they are allowed to forever hate him for what he had done in the past, but that they need to find a way to live in a life that is always moving on. He learned that grudges do nothing once they are absolved and it leaves you with hate with nothing else to do with it once that object is gone. In terms of reconciliation, I do not ever think that either want anything other than a distant peaceful out of each other's life set up. Jiang Cheng does not need Wei Wuxian in his life to be satisfied and never has since he used him as the handicap to hide behind to stay angry and miserable. Being without that fallback opens the world far more for him to change than him ever interacting like an old friend with Wei Wuxian ever again, if he ever had the guts to do that.

[inessencedevided]

The Untamed, episode 15 - watching notes

Here we go!💃🕺💃🕺

Wow, that was a cold open. So the Yao clan was attacked. I don't think there's any major character who's from that clan so far, right?

Clan leader Jiang is such a genuinely decent person, but still, I feel like all the clsn leaders (apart from the wen clan leader obviously) should have st least tried to come up with some kind of strategy. Especially, since it was only a matter of time until the wen clan attacked them

Oh no, please don't tell me that this is is how clan leader Jiang will die :(

Oh God, I'm genuinely tearing up at the image of jiang Cheng and wei Wuxian side by side, being instructed by their father/uncle. Just ugh ... I hate it when brothers turn against each other!

Shiiit, it's the petunia-lady

Wait, is she actually... nice? Is this her begrudging "i lost a sister" moment?

I have the definite feeling that the Jiang clan leader will die now, and I'm genuinely crying now :((

Oh wait, maybe that was a grave oversight of mine, but I never realised that the Wen Cksn needed Wen Qing formedical purposes specifically, since apparently, whatever dark form of cultivation the sect leader is practicing has a negative effect on his health!

It's kind of humanising to see Wen chao actually care for his father

Still a dick though

I miss lwj btw, he hasn't appeared since mid-last episode :(

Nice sneaky time laps! Just indicated by a "they've been away for 10 days"

Shiiiit! No! The wen clan is there 😳

Huh, is this going to be a fight between lady Yu and the ... wen lady whose name I forgot? I mean, I dislike them both, but I'm still intrigued :D

This while scene is just wild. The dialogue is amazing! Exactly the kind of deceptive accusations you would expect from a skilled manipulator.

Also l, it's strange to suddenly root for madam Yu

Okay, I take it back

Don't you fcking dare touch Wei Ying!!!

Jiang Cheng!!! 😭

This is going to be one of those story lines, isn't it? It's just pain from here on

Shitshitshitshit

I couldn't type during half of this because I didn't want to stop the stream but just FCK I know where this is going

He's going to sacrifice his hand right? And it's STILL not going to be enough for this woman. Why do I have a feeling that it has always been like this. Little Wei Wuxian, as a child, getting punished by her and thinking that maybe, it might be enough some day. But no, it isn't. She resents him for his very existence, so nothing he does and no punishment will ever be enough. And so he commits to it. If all she sees him is a nuisance and a troublemaker, than troublemaker he'll be. (Maybe I'm wildly off the mark here, but this thought just punched me in the gut and I needed to share)

"If I can bring peace back, one hand is worthwhile"

What? Supervisory office?

Okay, so madam Yu just values her own skin and prodebefore anything else. That's not a nice characteristic, but ar least its predictable

It's interesting how she still says "we yu clan". Honestly, as much as I don't like her, she's getting more and more fascinating

Hooooly shiiiiit

her maids are something else

"Purple spider"? Now that's a fitting title

Now, that's one fight scene! I'm fascinated! I love that there aren't any swords involved for a change and while, sometimes,slowmotion in fight scenes can be overdone, that's definitely not the case here

Every time Madam Yu talks to wei Wuxian I just want to take him in my arms and hold him forever

Again  I couldn't type for a while... I have tears streaming down my face right now

It's just so GODDAMN UNFAIR!

The fact that she can't get over her goddamn hurt ego and see that wwx is just a lost, hurt child without a parent to call his own and that he loves his brother and would never subvert him. How spiteful and bitter can someone be? And I KNOW, this scene showed that she has her reasons and that, in her selfish way, she loves her son, but shit, the way she first cradled Jiang Cheng and then put down Wei Wuxian even further broke my heart in so many ways ... I'm honestly not okay

And I know, i just KNOW that JC's and wwx's falling pit will tear my heart to pieces, now! I already sobbed right now! How will I survive??

Also, all the awards to wwx's and jiang Cheng's actors!!!

.... breath sophie ...

I'm pressing play again

Ahhhrrggg!!!

It's not getting any better 😭😭😭😭

You don't understand, the episode is over and I'm genuinely sobbing!!!

This dysfunctional, (mostly) loving family full of idiots got me HARD!!!

And that goodbye!!! 😭

And just .... again (while clan leader Jiang was gentler than his wife), ALL he had to say to wei Wuxian was "watch out for Cheng and Li"!!! No "don't cry" like with his children. CAN SOMEONE JUST TELL THIS CHILD THAT HE IS LOVED JUST FOR HIMSELF, UNCONDITIONALLY!

Please.

Seriously, get your shit together Lan Zhan!

What is this show doing to me? I'm not okay 😭😭😭

@sweetlittlevampire @fandom-glazed @elenirlachlagos @allhailthedramallama @luckymoony (I'm blaming some of you personally for my suffering, btw!)

[yiling]

Untamed rewatch Episode 20

Wei Wuxian is back, and would like Jiang Cheng and Lan Zhan to know that he’s completely, totally fine, and not torturing people to death to cope or something

-my mom says wen chao is really good at looking crazy lmao

-I GASPED WHEN WWX SHOWED UP WITH THE FLUTE HE’S SO HOT

-god I love this music it’s so eerie and evocative

-the way it’s shown that jiaojiao and wen chao are being tormented by the spirits of people whose deaths they were responsible for...that’s so spicy. shout out to wei wuxian and his deeply twisted, horrific, but powerful sense of justice lmao.

-the scene where lwj and jc investigate all the dead wen cultivators is nice and spooky. I love the horror aspects of this show

-my sister pointed out that when someone tells jc that a woman hanged herself inside the office, he might’ve reacted as he did because he thought it was wen qing :(

-my mom complained about Netflix not translating the seal script on the talismans but my understanding is that it’s not language, as such

-oh I forgot about jiang cheng’s conversation with wen qing here. this is gonna hurt.

-“you have saved me after all” she has more than you know, jiang cheng

-hearing her very deliberately call him sect leader jiang is such a punch in the gut, both cause it’s a reminder of the fact that this man’s whole family is dead now, and because she’s drawing attention to the political situation that means he can’t reasonably help her. I think at this time in his life, jiang cheng really might’ve done everything in his power to protect her and her family, but that’s a narrow window of time, defined by the unstable situation of sunshot, his inexperience as sect leader, and the fact that he’s lost so much. once wei wuxian comes back, I think jiang cheng steps more fully into his role as sect leader, until the idea of protecting the wens is unthinkable.

-“you can save me but you can’t save them all” fuck this hurts so bad looking forward. another way jiang cheng is shown up by his brother - wei wuxian did manage to save wen qing’s family. but it didn’t and couldn’t last, just as she predicted. 

-“he bled from all the holes of his head” is such a cool and gross thing to say lol

-okay again wen zhuliu is funnier on a rewatch. he hates this so much.

-the problem with the soundtrack here is that you sometimes can’t tell whether the flute is meant to be diegetic or not

-god the slowly ratcheting tension of wwx’s entrance... *chef’s kiss*

-when he starts playing, the background fades into the burial mounds for a few moments, and wei wuxian just smiiiiiles...fucking superb you funky little necromancer.

-love this random ghost lady we never see again

-oh boy. oh man. the first time I watched this show I spent episodes 14-19 yelling variations on HUG YOUR SIBLING GODDAMN IT, so when we got The Hug I broke. I think I may have actually cried.

-oh god, an arrangement of the lotus pier theme plays during The Hug

-just as wwx reaches up (slowly, uncertainly) to return the embrace, jiang cheng pulls away

-“how could I have been in the burial mounds? no one can survive that place” that’s as close as you’re going to get to a cry for help huh

-wei wuxian is so much...stiffer, less relaxed. his movements are more controlled, his gestures less expansive than they were pre-burial mounds. he does a little bit of the brat act when lwj talks to him but it looks artificial. he smiles earnestly when jiang cheng talks to him, but it doesn’t last long.

-“as for my temperament, I’m in control of my own mind” famous last words, my dude

-this argument is. oof.

-I’m not clear that it would’ve helped, I don’t think wwx trusted him enough, but if lwj could have just said “I care about you and I want you to be okay, I don’t think you’re in a good place” in so many words...Mm. But he would have to be a very different character. lan zhan is so defined by what he can’t say, what he doesn’t know how to say, and what he does say that gets misinterpreted because he’s expressing himself through the prism of the inflexible rules he was taught. concern on lan wangji looks too much like disapproval for poor neurotic wei wuxian to take it gracefully, and they both suffer for it!

-like, what’s happening here is that to lan zhan, wei wuxian is visibly Not Okay and is using resentful energy, which is fucked up, and jiang cheng is too thrilled over having his shixiong back to really notice. so he points out that resentful energy is really dangerous for the person who uses it, because he’s afraid for wei wuxian. and wei wuxian, on a hair trigger because he just barely survived three months of torture and sensitized to anything that even looks like disapproval by his shitty adoptive parents, interprets this as an insult - how dare you think I can’t handle this? how dare you see I can’t handle this, how dare you see that I’m suffering? and so he gets nasty and cutting, and lan zhan, who i’m absolutely sure doesn’t understand why wei wuxian is angry with him, gets angry right back. and wei wuxian says the most cruel thing he can: “this is an internal measure of yunmeng jiang, it’s none of your concern.” or, the way he’s intending it: i don’t care about your opinion and i don’t care about you. 

-and lan zhan, unable to deal with it anymore, walks out, which we know he does when he’s angry, to go turn the words over in his head. this...honestly gives me autistic lwj feels. he’s trying so, so hard to reach out to wwx when that’s a really hard thing for him to do! he has a hard time relating to people! and he gets rebuffed in a way that makes it clear he’s failed to be a friend like he was trying to be and he doesn’t even know why. (which is not just on him, wwx is Not being forthcoming) and that sure is..an experience. which i have had.

-(i’m also imagining he picked up this method of handling his anger from xichen, personally. just walk away, wangji. don’t fight, no matter how much someone hurts you, no matter how wrong it feels :’)

-lwj’s expression when he listens to them killing wen chao reminds me of the rain scene ._. 

-yanli as a medic feels kind of stereotypical but she’d be good at it

-the way yanli’s face changes when she hears wwx’s voice...i kind of haven’t liked her performance (mostly, i think, because she’s been given so little to do) but this little moment...wow

-my mom really wants to know what happened in the burial mounds! we had a conversation about dizi (wwx’s flute) vs xiao (lxc’s flute) also because. i looked it up lol. I might make a meta post since there’s some interesting details

[razberryyum]

With the past arc coming to an end this week, resulting in most of our collective hearts being ripped out of our chests, I wanted to take this opportunity to pay tribute to our two dear big sisters of The Untamed/MDZS, Jiang Yanli and Wen Qing.

(novel and ep 32 spoilers below the cut)

Jiang Yanli (Shijie)

I took an immediate liking to Shijie the first moment we met her on the show since with her sweet smile and gentle eyes, she was so obviously a loving person and a caring big sister to her two unruly little brothers, there was almost no way I wouldn’t like her. She felt like the gentle type who would not harm a fly, and as we got to know her even more, I only loved her more. I’ve already talked about her kick-ass moment on Phoenix Mountain which perfectly encapsulated her greatness as a person, so I will look at other aspects of her life instead.  Considering the fact that she grew up with parents who loved her in a well-respected cultivation sect, she really could have easily been a spoiled princess type of character since I doubt she was ever left wanting. And then, when her father brought home Wei Wuxian, she also could have easily either ignored the kid or worse yet treat him like crap, especially with the rumors about Wei Wuxian being her dad’s bastard son, which I’m sure she would have gotten a whiff of. Even if she had mistreated WWX, she probably would have gotten the full backing of her mom in doing so. But instead, because she is really just the most generous soul on earth, she instantly accepted him as part of the family and loved him as she did her own brother, even making sure that Jiang Cheng would accept him and treat him right as well. In fact, it is abundantly clear that Shijie had to act as more of a mother to WWX since Madame Yu most definitely had no intention of filling that role.  Her attitude actually reminded me of Catelyn Stark and Jon Snow in Game of Thrones: like Catelyn Stark, she simply couldn’t forgive her husband’s infidelity and therefore could never like the child her husband brought back since she saw the boy as a daily reminder of his unfaithfulness. As much as I love Madame Yu, because she is awesome and fierce AF, it could NOT have been easy growing up in her household when one’s mere existence and presence triggered her ire. So really, thank God for Shijie, for being there and providing WWX with the motherly love and warmth that he probably sorely needed since Jiang Fengmian probably couldn’t always be around to take care of him.

As a result, I totally understand why WWX would have such bitter feelings towards someone like Jin Zixuan, since I felt the same way for a long time. Actually it wasn’t until JZX’s last moments did I finally like him as a person. Despite the fact that the live action has given us more time with him to redeem his character and make him more likable, I still held out all the way until the bitter end because, honestly, how can I ever forgive someone who had made Shijie cry like this:

But since he was also the one to make her smile and enjoy the happiest moments of her life, I could also never really hate JZX either. Mostly I’m just Shijie got to be with the man she obviously was in love with and I really appreciated the fact that the live action made him earn her forgiveness a little more. Even though she had to sneak out to let WWX see her in her beautiful bridal gown, I do believe that she had JZX’s blessing to do so because he knew how important WWX was to her, and how sad she probably already felt that he wasn’t allowed to attend her wedding. I wish the siblings’ reunion in Yiling was the last moment they could have shared together, instead of the gut-wrenching one in Nightless City.

When JZX was killed, my heart hurt so much because I instantly thought of how much his death would hurt Shijie, especially when she learned of it and more importantly, who killed him...they didn’t even have to show us her reaction since my imagination had already conjured up the worse scenario possible. I am certain WWX was thinking the same exact thoughts and conjuring up the same image, hence the pain on his face was so understandable and completely heart-wrenching.

Yet, despite being told her beloved A-Xian was the one who killed her beloved husband, that moment when she saw him at her home, she didn’t even hesitate to call out to him, using the same affectionate nickname she has always used. There was not an ounce of hatred or anger or blame on her face, only something akin to joy that she could see her brother again. Knowing he was in trouble as a result of visiting her, she then actually rushed right into the midst of battle to reunite with him again. I mean, just think about that for a second. Here she was, still in mourning for her husband, the love of her life, holding her only one month old child, but upon realizing her little brother was nearby, she dropped everything to rush after him, to see him, probably because she just could not believe he would ever do anything to hurt her like that. All the nasty things people have been saying about WWX, including how he commanded Wen Ning to murder her husband, she probably couldn’t believe because that was simply not the Xian Xian she knew and loved. In the past, every time Jiang Cheng would talk smack about WWX misbehaving or up to no good, she would always come to his defense. And even though in this particular case she had full reason to not defend him for once, she still believed in the good of WWX to go after him. Her love and faith in her A-Xian was so strong that when great danger was to befall him and she saw the sword strike heading for him, she completely forgot that she was a mother now with a child that still needed her, and just took that fatal hit for him because she just loved her brother so damn much that the only thing she was probably thinking about was A-Xian's in danger, must protect!. One might say she acted purely on instinct, without really thinking about the negative consequences of taking such a hit would have on her, but I believe that even if Shijie had one more minute to think about the situation, she would still make the same decision. Because that’s the type of selfless person she was: the caring big sister she was, the loving mother figure to WWX she will always be, the amazing mother she would have been to Jin Ling.

Even though Jin Ling grew up to be the spoiled princess instead, at least his basic nature is still good, and I’d like to think that that is what he got from his mom (while the spoiled part from his flowery peacock of a dad, lol) since God knows grumpy uncle JC and “doting” uncle Jin Guangyao probably weren’t much help in nurturing that sweet side of him, and not to mention we know he’s mostly friendless because of his disposition. Regardless of the sincerity behind JGY’s gestures when it came to his nephew, I am still utterly grateful that he gave him Fairy the floofiest doggo in the entire universe so that at least Jin Ling didn’t feel so alone when his peers mostly ignored him (even if it was kinda his own doing). I hope that wherever Shijie is, she can smile and be happy that her son grew up healthy and well and somewhat loved, and now, having finally reunited with the uncle he never knew but whom she probably would have always wanted him to meet, he could become an even better person who would make her even more proud.

Wen Qing

I owe Wen Qing a big apology. Before I started watching The Untamed, I had read rumors that they were going to change the love story between WWX and Lan Wangji to a love story between WWX and most likely Wen Qing, and therefore, I started the show with a lot of misgivings about her character. Personally, I hate when perfectly good love stories are altered due to no other reason than bigotry, so even though the character of Wen Qing is really the innocent bystander caught in the line of fire in this case (it’s not her fault if the writers had changed her character in that way), every time she shared a scene with WWX in those beginning episodes, I would actually grimace a little because I thought I knew where things were heading.  Suffice it to say, I’m glad things worked out in favor of WangXian and I’m sorry I had any negative feelings towards her at all, because after WWX, she really is the most tragic character in The Untamed/MDZS.

Here's the thing, even though she didn’t turn out to be the love interest that would come between WWX and LWJ, I DO firmly believe that Wen Qing was in love with WWX, based on the way the actress played her and some of the moments we’ve seen (her reaction to having her wrist held by WWX, the way she asks about him when Jiang Chang rescues her from the Wen dungeon, the way she looks at WWX sometimes). Some might say she’s just being a big sister to him, which I would wholeheartedly agree with in terms of her novel counterpart, but on the show, that wasn’t my read of her character at all. However, I actually find it utterly reasonable that she would be in love with WWX because...hell, who wouldn’t be in that situation? Putting aside the fact that he’s her age, charming, smart, handsome, funny, kind-hearted, and talented, he’s also the savior of her treasured little brother and her clan. I would actually find it more shocking if she wasn’t in love with him. I know Wen Qing in the novel was not written that way at all, but she also didn’t appear much either despite having a pretty significant impact on certain key plot elements.  Here’s the thing though, I actually think her feelings for WWX is what makes her character even more sympathetic because it’s a love unfulfilled, could never be fulfilled, not just because of her shortened lifespan, but also because during their time at the Burial Mound, it was made abundantly clear that WWX’s heart was elsewhere the entire time.  Her disappointment at seeing the invitation from LWJ to his sister’s baby shower perfectly captured her understanding of that fact.

She believes WWX is staying with them only out of a sense of obligation, and one can imagine how guilt-ridden she felt since she believes her family is what has been keeping him from the people he actually loves. Even though her time at the Burial Mound is probably the happiest she‘s ever been in her short life, especially after Wen Ning woke up, she was still not afforded complete happiness because of her own sense of guilt in addition to her ever-present fear that their simple, happy days would eventually come to an end at the hands of the unforgiving world surrounding them.

Just thinking about Wen Qing’s life in general is enough to make my heart ache on her behalf. It could not have been easy growing up as basically a hostage of the Wen Sect, constantly living in fear of what Wen Ruohan would do to her little brother or her family if she didn’t do as she was told. Thank God she was blessed with the gift of being a talented physician and therefore useful to WRH, but it is also because of her talent that she acquired the unsavory reputation of being a ruthless, vicious medicine woman of the Wen sect, according to WWX when they first spoke to each other in the back hills of the Cloud Recesses. Nie Minghue’s words about her not being guiltless because she never once tried stopping WRH from doing his horrible deeds actually got to me since there is some truth to them: I mean, isn’t someone who is a part of the Nazis guilty by association, regardless of why they had to join in the first place? When she wasn’t worried about what the Wens would do to Wen Qing, Wen Qing was probably plagued with guilt since she undoubtedly witnessed the horrible things the Wens did and yet could do nothing to stop them. As someone who saved lives as a profession, seeing the Wens carelessly take lives could not have been easy on her conscience. But there was little she could have done since she had her own people to protect.  It had to have been a stifling existence. And then, when the Wens were defeated, instead of being granted the freedom she probably wished for her whole life, the good guys turned around and basically imprisoned/tortured her people and even killed her beloved A-Ning whom she had lived her life for all this time. Her life went from bad to worse in a blink of an eye.

But then thanks to WWX, her little bro was miraculously brought back to life and even more miraculously retained all the sweet qualities that made him lovable so that she could at least enjoy one short year with him. Unfortunately, the semi-joyous days came to an abrupt end in the worst way possible. I can only imagine how heartbroken she was when she made the decision with Wen Ning to surrender themselves to the Jins, but I also believe that in knowing what fate would befall her brother as a result, there was no way she would be able to live with herself after that, so that’s why she chose to go to her death with him.

And honestly, her death is what haunts me and will continue to haunt me, because if memory serves, we were never really given details of how she died in the novel, nor did we get much in the show. We know she was just reduced to dust, so she was never even afforded a proper burial, but that still pales in comparison to the notion of what torture probably awaited her in the hands of that particular Jin father and son duo. There is no way Wen Qing’s death could have been pleasant. The only consolation I have is that at least she died quickly, relatively speaking, at least compared to poor Wen Ning, whom they kept around for a much, much longer period of time to experiment on. Seriously, just thinking about it now is making me sick to my stomach. For someone who probably never hurt anyone in her life, Wen Qing didn’t deserve that kind of ending. I’m glad she got to meet Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian and through them, experience friendship and maybe love like any normal girl would, but it was still too small and quick an interlude in her otherwise difficult life. Personally I wish they developed her relationship with JC a little more since I actually thought the two of them had a lot of chemistry, but I doubt that would have afforded her a happy ending either since, as she pointed out, JC wouldn’t have been able to let go of his responsibilities and status as sect leader to save her and her family as WWX was willing to do. It would have still been a doomed romance in a sadly doomed life.

Before I end this tribute, I wanted to also applaud the two actresses who so wonderfully brought our two beautiful big sisters to life: Xuan Lu as Shijie and Meng Zi Yi as Wen Qing. Their performances greatly contributed to the affection I feel for these two characters and I am so glad they were chosen to embody them.  

So to our dear Shijie and Wen Qing, the two fine, brave ladies of The Untamed/MDZS, I salute you, and I hope that wherever you are, you are finally at peace and happy.

[crossdressingdeath]

sorry for barrelling into your inbox to complain about jiang cheng again but it's genuinely so annoying how many people treat his constant verbal abuse towards wwx as a fun quirk or Just JC Being JC. i know siblings can be vitriolic, but jc blaming wwx for his family's deaths, knowing full well it isn't true and wwx already hates himself for it? jc calling wwx a selfish brat who doesn't face consequences after knowing what wwx suffered? not cute. no reason why wwx should let that disrespect fly

like will he get angry, will he flip out because I have done this commendable courageous thing? Oh no, I should find a way to praise him for taking a long hike in the woods too like it's the same thing so he doesn't feel left out. The contrast with other brother pairs is glaring (like I can picture cases when they separate for the public image of the sect, but there still would be no bad blood between them and they'll get assistance) I'm fully converted to your JC is a bad brother agenda, 2/5

even though frankly I don't think that JC ever saw WWX as his brother. Brother like subordinate, yeah, but his brother, nah, WWX isn't adopted and JC never calls him anything approaching brother or even martial brother. Now I have to ask for your top 3 worst scene where JC lets someone down! Can also be a top 5, top 10 or a full ranking lol :p  For real, I was mostly meuh about JC but followed a stan a while back and realized that the whole process of writing meta about JC is literally just 3/5

about trying to justify, explain away or dismiss his actions because during the *entirety* of the story, he didn't do or say a single thing that could be seen in a good light... Not without mellowing his character without canon support, giving him the moral skills of a toddler (ongoing genocide or my feelings, what is most important?) or whataboutisms about other people or situations - like even his fans aren't proud of his actions.  That or trying to shift blame on WWX by making his golden 4/5

core sacrifice a wrongdoing or an imposition on JC that WWX should be grateful that JC accepts or ever deigns to forgive him about because JC would have be 100% ok on his own... He would not, he was letting himself die of hunger and lack of sleep in enemy territory, and his incapacity of letting go of things trumps that of LWJ or even WWX who lost 3 families and was turned on by everyone in the cultivation world lol. He can be angry about if of, but not seeing it as a sacrifice on WWX part ?!5/5

So much of JC meta (from what I’ve seen on my dash, I don’t go looking for it because fuck that) is fixated on “He saved WWX from the Wens that one time! It was a huge sacrifice! Everything else he did doesn’t matter because he did a good thing this one time!” ...Okay, I’m exaggerating, but it is like... that is one of two good things JC does. He asks his mother not to whip WWX and cut his hand off (which, wow, what a fucking saint, we should give him a fucking medal for not wanting his brother to be mutilated) and he gets the Wens away from WWX. And, guess what? After he gets the Wens away from WWX and faces serious consequences for doing so, he never goes out of his way to help WWX again. In fact, he makes the situation worse for WWX more often than not. I genuinely think that JC realized helping WWX could hurt him in this new life they’d found themselves in and immediately decided he wasn’t worth the effort.

And yeah, WWX spent most of his childhood having to flinch away from any impressive feat he performed, downplay his genius and cultivation talent (or play it up to ludicrous levels so it could be passed off as a joke), out of fear for how YZY and JC would react. Thinking about it, I wonder if that’s why his reaction to LWJ praising him in a way he can’t laugh off or wave away is so... dramatic. He clearly took pride in how good he was at pretty much everything, and rightly so, but I imagine it was always soured slightly by how JC would complain about it, as if it was WWX’s fault that he was in fact brilliant and JC was... not. WWX’s always effusive in praise for JC because if he isn’t, if he doesn’t act like their actions are equal, JC will throw even more of a tantrum about it. And he’ll still throw a tantrum because he doesn’t want to be pitied, except if WWX doesn’t give him that “pity” he’ll be in even more trouble for “showing off”, and... WWX can never win with JC.

And the whole thing with the golden core! It is such bullshit. “He didn’t get consent!” And how, exactly, was he supposed to do that when JC was openly letting himself die and refusing to speak to him?! WWX had to trick him because it was the only way to get JC to so much as listen to him. And, let’s face it, even if WWX had managed to actually discuss it with JC the result would’ve been the same. JC would’ve yelled and screamed about how it was all WWX’s fault that the Jiangs died and that JC lost his golden core and WWX would’ve still given his golden core to JC except with a side order of nonstop guilting over “letting” this whole situation unfold. At most discussing the matter with JC beforehand would mean JC wouldn’t get pissy about WWX not training the disciples (he’d find something else to be a dick about instead! And probably get pissy about him not teaching the disciples demonic cultivation). ...Also there’s a good chance they’d both get immediately captured by the Wens because they were hanging out at the foot of the mountain and JC wouldn’t be able to fight them off, but that’s not the point right now. Also, acting like it’s an imposition that JC got an insanely powerful golden core for free is just... ugh. Oh, pity him, pity him, he’s now got one of the strongest cores of his generation because his brother loved him enough to sacrifice his own! So sad, so hard for the poor boy! I mean, it’s not like JC cares that WWX lost everything so that JC could have a golden core. If he cared about that sort of thing he wouldn’t have stabbed WWX in the gut and called him a traitor to the sects when WWX suggested they stage a fight. I know the whole getting captured by the Wens and having his core removed business must have... sucked. A lot. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to feel bad for him for getting WWX’s golden core.

(On a related note, people acting like JC not telling WWX he got captured leading the Wens away from WWX is some sort of great deed is kinda... Well. Yeah, on this one, singular occasion JC didn’t guilt his brother over something that wasn’t at all his fault! What a great guy!)

Anyway, the only part of the golden core transfer that JC seems at all upset about is that now he’s conflicted about leading an army to slaughter WWX and the innocent civilians under his protection, which really he should’ve already been conflicted about at the very least, so I really don’t see why people act like he’s the victim in the whole situation.

[llycaons]

well, it was both great and awful in new and interesting ways. I compare to my prediction post

no presence for jyl :( rip I’m also used to XL who looks quite a bit older, and the donghua version of jyl looks very young bro donghua jyl just straight up had no presence at all it was devastating I wanted miss xuan lu so badly. she was so stupid and so spacey and none of her relationships or personality traits felt real

wwx and lwj are like, kind of mean to each other? not in a bad way particularly but I heard their relationship is a lot different than the show. naturally im very fond of the show so idk how I’ll feel about this they're a little rough around the edges but by the end they're...fine. as I've said i think the way the romance was implemented at the end was very well-excecuted and I liked their chemistry even if I didn't like them individually

WEN BLOOD CAVE SCENE THOUGH YEAHH BOYYYYY

extremely sexy ravens? green smoke? red eyes? yllz aesthetic looks incredible true but the cgi for the birds sucked and unfortunately I didn't like the yllz aesthetic as I found it too surreal and fantastical and silly-looking

backgrounds look gorgeous THEY WERE. also the op and ed animation

the music is apparently amazing it was whatever

the robes look different I think wwx wears gray with red detailing yep

wen qing hardcore!!! she sounds really cool in the donghua hardcore yes, but cool she was not. we got four scenes with her and she was really mean for most of them. no relationship development to speak of with either wwx or wen ning. her death scene hit, but only because it was well-done. I did not care for her

I have heard wwx in the donghua steers close to the hated gremlin man xD trope. we shall see in the CR arc DEFINITELY yes. he's capable of sounding normal but in his CR days and his higher-energy days as an adult he is such a fucking annoying obnoxious asshole he pisses me off

lwj has some cool moments like w the guan in the finale but overall I hear he’s very stiff and weird and intense and angry funny story. donghua lwj is at times stiff, emotionless, uncommunicative, passive when people he apparently cares about are in danger or distress, willing to kidnap someone he claims to love, and generally a shitty dude. other times he's gentle, communicative, honest, mature, honorable, and has a lovely smile. in general s1 and s2 are worse and s3 is best. still haven't quite forgiven him for the kidnapping and shitty reunion scene and the drunk ribbon thing but he's also impressed me with his expressiveness, actions, and willingness to work with people he dislikes

speaking of lwj please hold me in the light as I bear witness to those character designs for…oh god. 17 hours. I don’t want to see him like this dear followers, it was bad. but I did get used to it

so I’m going to try to approach it as its own thing because I see those characters and im like ‘I do not know these people this was impossible. I was at all times comparing it to the novel and to the drama

the setting and clothing designs and hairstyles all look SO different so it won’t be hard to keep them distinct in my head I think it does have a distictive vibe. it made its mark on the fanbase and it's a significant adaptation with a lot of good points that puts its own twist on the story while mostly remaining loyal in essentials

I hope the romantic subtext comes through but I haven’t seen much to inspire hope abt that…I am glad not to worry about the dafan mtn kiss and ch 96 stuff tho obvs not at all in s1 and s2, butto my very great and pleased surprise, the romance came through rather wonderfully in the finale episodes of s3

jc donghua ending sounds really good I look forward to that it was offscreen but it was something different

wonky pacing? but the flashbacks were concise? that’s good bc this show is short the pacing was up and down. sometimes snappy, sometimes slow. 'concise' is a kinder term than I would use for the gutted post-sunshot plot

so I’m really looking forward to a cool Aesthetic for the show and for a plot closer to the novel and maybe these characters will charm me! but looking like that, I somewhat doubt it in fact, it is for none of those things that I enjoyed this show. I did not like any of the characters overall, just brief moments of affection that pass quickly. jin ling is fine. wwx is okay. wen ning isn't really a strong presence, but he's sweet. lxc fucking sucks. jgy is fine. jyl is like nonexistent she has zero personality

this show wasn't bad