#i literally just wanted to show that there is nothing definitive in the 'source material'

[menelaiad]

Agamemnon is explicitly stated to be hot/muscular. It's in the source material. Books 2 and 3 in particular. I highly doubt being compared to the Gods meant being "chubby" or super old. The ancient text obviously wouldn't say "ripped" because that wasn't in their vocabulary. But they refer to him as everything else that such a body would imply.

And Achilles was saying things in anger in Book 1. Everyone forgets how in Book 23, Achilles pretty much retracts everything he said and claims Agamemnon is the best natural warrior which he was.

tldr; im a petty bitch

y'all are SO PRESSED ON THIS LMAOOO I'M CRYING

'ripped' isn't in their vocabulary?? but 'hot' and 'muscular' are? really?

AGAIN about your last point, cause people who are so pressed about this just keep ignoring it: YOU CAN BE A WARRIOR. AND NOT BE CONVENTIONALLY 'RIPPED'. NOTHING ABOUT A HUMAN BEING - A HUMAN MAN HAVING A SLIGHT TUMMY WILL STOP HIM BEING ABLE TO RUN, FIGHT, KILL PEOPLE AND BE A WARRIOR. YOUR WEIGHT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC INDICATOR OF YOUR FITNESS LEVEL/ABILITIES.

that's y'alls prejudice about larger people coming through. this stupid belief that the ancient world represented 'the peak masculine alpha ideal' no????? this whole 'if man strong and can stab and have sex with woman then man must be muscley and ripped cause that make man sexy' like shut up.

it's baffling to me that you're all so heated on this. the mere thought of a human man having a tummy is sending you all west. you can't cope. a human man who consumed copious amounts of alcohol (because ancient greeks just did???) and probably had a very rich diet. having tummy??? NO. ILLEGAL.

im sorry but im cracking up over here. i couldnt care less whether people think aga has a 16-pack, that he's skinny as a twig, that he's fat, that he's not, that he's somewhere in between - idc. but your adamancy against 'slight tummy' aga. is just ..... fatphobic. and i never thought i'd type that word out being a fucking classics blog lmaooo.

i have shared so many DUMB opinions on this blog. from menelaus' teeth to odyssues' hairy feet and yet the thing that gets the most reaction from people - is agamemnon's weight.

that's what's pissing me off. everything else? whatever have your own opinion, you weird menelaus girl. but the sECOND i say why i think i character might be a lil chubby OOF ouTRAGE. IM A FOOL.

also your point is just so incredible. my issue isn't with you thinking aga was a ripped sex god crafted by aphrodite herself. it's your use of the word 'explicitly' cause aga's size (in regards to his weight) is NEVER explicitly stated ANYWHERE. so we're both just having our own opinions. but mine has got you so pressed????

i own a couple translations of the iliad. lets look at some. and see the descriptions of aga, shall we? cause i know exactly which sections you mean in book 2 and 3. contrary to your apparent belief, i have read the iliad.

we'll do book 2 first to make it all easier to follow:

PETER GREEN

“among them the lord Agamemnōn, in eyes and head like Zeus who delights in the thunderbolt, like Arēs in girth, and with the chest of Poseidōn. As one steer in a herd of cattle stands out, far above them all— the bull, distinguished among the cows assembled round it— such a one on that day Zeus rendered Atreus’s son, preeminent among many, of heroes the foremost.”

... again. nothing really? girthy??? eyes like zeus (nice)??? tall??? nothing about weight here babes.

CAROLINE ALEXANDER

there to go into combat, and with them was lord Agamemnon— his eyes and head like Zeus who hurls the thunderbolt, his girth like Ares, his chest like Poseidon’s. As when an ox stands out from all others in the herd, a bull who is preeminent among the gathered cattle, so did Zeus on that day render the son of Atreus conspicuous amid the multitude, outstanding among warriors.

pretty much the same?? gets called an 'ox' here though. ooooh

ROBERT FAGLES.

and there in the midst strode powerful Agamemnon, eyes and head like Zeus who loves the lightning, great in the girth like Ares, god of battles, broad through the chest like sea Lord Poseidon. Like a bull rising head and shoulders over the herds, a royal bull rearing over his flocks of driven cattle — so imposing was Atreus' son, so Zeus made him that day, towering over fighters, looming over armies.

just more girth stuff. that can mean his shoulders?? his chest?? his ass? bro we don't know. was aga just THICC. his cheeks always alerting the trojans???

ROBERT FITZGERALD.

Agamemnon's lordly mien was like the mien of Zeus whose joy is lightning; oalken-waisted as Ares, god of war, he seemed, and deep-chested as Lord Poseidon, and as a great bull in his majesty towers supreme amid a grazing herd, so on that dav Zeus made the son of Atreus tower over his host, supreme among them.

i like this one tbf. this one has got more meat on it. 'oaken waisted'. nice nice. again. i don't see oak trees are particullarly 'narrow' but hey. interpretation is what makes this field so great.

RICHARD LATTIMORE

“powerful Agamemnon, with eyes and head like Zeus who delights in thunder, like Ares for girth, and with the chest of Poseidon; like some ox of the herd pre-eminent among the others, a bull, who stands conspicuous in the huddling cattle; such was the son of Atreus as Zeus made him that day, conspicuous among men, and foremost among the fighters.”

STANLEY LOMBARDO

To enter battle, and Lord Agamemnon Moved among them like Zeus himself, The look in his eyes, the carriage of his head, With a torso like Ares', or like Poseidon's. Picture a bull that stands out from the herd Head and horns above the milling cattle— Zeus on that day made the son of Atreus A man who stood out from the crowd of heroes.

SEE this one we're not even talking about his LITERAL appearance but how he's holding himself. how he acts. his CONFIDENCE. cool take, stan. i like it.

STEPHEN MITCHELL

“and among them was Agamemnon, his splendid eyes and head like almighty Zeus’s, his thighs like the thighs of Ares, his chest like Poseidon’s. As a bull stands out in a herd above all the others, sovereign among the cows as they graze in a field: just so, on that day, did Lord Zeus make Agamemnon supreme over all the warriors massed before Troy.”

LOVE the thigh mention Mitchell. nice nice.

'The ancient text obviously wouldn't say "ripped" because that wasn't in their vocabulary. But they refer to him as everything else that such a body would imply.'

bro all i'm getting is the word 'girthy'?? if you want me to be a bitch about it, that's not a word i'd put with someone who is 'ripped'. if anything, they're implying he got junk in his trunk. i truly hand on heart. cannot see anything in the book 2 translations that imply or indicate to me that he does not have a tummy. that he is rocking a six pack. WHICH IS FINE. we can play with it and form our own opinions. but you're THIS IMPLIES .... is wrong??? it doesn't imply anything dude????

all we can infer from any of the book two stuff is that he's a man who is larger than the other men around him - literally? metaphorically? we dont know. (which is all horseshit anyway cause priam later goes on to say he's a short arse which is helpful). and that he shares qualities with the gods. again, literally? metaphorically? bit of both? we. don't. know.

TIME FOR BOOK 3. the priam and helen thirst.

PETER GREEN

“and to put a name for me to that huge warrior down there, that Achaian leader, of such stature and so strong: others there may be taller still by a head, and yet so fine a man have I never set eyes on, nor one so majestic in bearing—he looks to be of royal blood.” helen later calls him a 'strong spearman'

CAROLINE ALEXANDER

tell me the name of this gigantic man, who is this Achaean man, good and great? To be sure there are other men even greater in height, but I have never beheld with my eyes a man so handsome, nor so majestic; for he seems a kingly man. helen later calls him a 'powerful spear-warrior'

ROBERT FAGLES

“ tell me the name of that tremendous fighter. Look, who's that Achaean there, so stark and grand? Many others afield are much taller, true, but I have never yet set eyes on one so regal, so majestic . . . That man must be a king!” helen later calls him a 'strong spearman'

ROBERT FITZGERALD

Come, tell me who the big man is out there, who is that powerful figure? Other men are taller, but I never saw a soldier clean-cut as he, as royal in his bearing: he seems a kingly man. helen later calls his a 'formidable warrior'

RICHARD LATTIMORE

“You could tell me the name of this man who is so tremendous; who is this Achaian man of power and stature? Though in truth there are others taller by a head than he is, yet these eyes have never yet looked on a man so splendid nor so lordly as this: such a man might well be royal.” helen later calls him a 'strong spearfighter'

STANLEY LOMBARDO

Now tell me, who is that enormous man Towering over the Greek troops, handsome, Well-built? I've never laid eyes on such A fine figure of a man. He looks like a king. helen later calls him a 'strong warrior'

STEPHEN MITCHELL

“Tell me now, what is the name of that splendid man who is standing down there, so powerful and so tall. To be sure, there are other men who are even taller, but never before have I seen a man so majestic, so splendid in form and bearing. He must be a king.” helen later calls him a 'mighty soldier'

again. in all of these - nothing. all that's consistent is that he's not the tallest man at troy. which means ..... very little ASDFGHJK. there is Nothing concrete here. nothing that points us more one way than it does the other.

ultimately, dude, what we've got is.... nothing. nothing concrete. nothing definitive. i can't say you're wrong and you can't say i'm wrong.

i saw the phrase 'wine sack' and interpreted it my way and you saw it and interpreted it differently. but books 2 and 3 certainly don't back either of us up more definitively.

and in regards to his age. same thing. you can't say i'm wrong and i can't say you're wrong. but i've explained my reasonings for aga's age using sources HERE

idk man. if you're looking for an EXPLICITLY YOUNG CHISELED ABS LEGEND MALE CHARACTER. look elsewhere.

[theoddityherself]

TLOU HBO S2E4 REVIEW:

This has been my least favorite episode of the four and a lot of you might not like what I have to say but I do not care. I did not enjoy this episode as much as I hoped I would and I even considered giving up on the show after watching it because the direction of the writing legit pissed me off.

Dina and Ellie:

So many of you were confidently pulling out the term slowburn as an excuse for the writing when it came to Dina in episode 3. The writing completely went against that in episode 4. Not only was it not slowburn but everything that happened in that theater felt rushed and out of character. The fact that they turned a scene that was supposed to show relationship conflicts between Ellie and Dina, because not everything is perfect in their relationship, and is also supposed to show how Ellie is spiraling as she's trying to seek revenge for Joel's murder, the scene in the show did the complete opposite of that. They took the seriousness out of the scene by having Dina point a gun at Ellie just to turn around and reveal her pregnancy and then have sex in the theater.

Also I know a lot of people aren't going to want to hear this but show Dina and Ellie have no more development than game Dina and Ellie. A lot of you like to say that the show developed their relationship so much more than the game did. It didn't. Dina and Ellie kiss at the winter dance, they go on a patrol together, Joel dies and all we know is that Dina visits Ellie while she's in the hospital, they go to Seattle together and rate their kiss in a tent, Ellie sings to Dina, Ellie gets bit and Dina finds out she's a immune, Dina tells Ellie that she's pregnant for Jesse, they have sex. Where exactly is the development for their relationship?

You can definitely tell that a man is writing their romance...

Urgency:

And that brings me to the lack of urgency in this show. Ellie seems like she's in absolutely no rush to avenge Joel. She's doesn't even look like she's emotionally going through anything. Nothing about how they're writing Ellie in this show really reflects how much Joel's passing affects her aside from the bits and pieces they gave us in episode 3. Ellie looks like she doesn't have a care in the world. I feel like the show is doing a piss poor job of truly portraying somebody who's to get revenge, is suffering from the trauma of watching the most important person in their life be murdered and is truly losing it as she looks for Abby throughout Seattle.

Dina:

Can people stop saying that Dina is more fleshed out in this show than she is in the game? Dina is out of character in the show and what fleshing out she's had has been related to all the relationships she has with other people; Joel, Jesse and Ellie. Not one thing about Dina herself has really been dabbled into. They haven't talked about her religion, more about her mom, her sister or her life before she met Ellie. Even in episode 4 her character was still mainly focused on the relationship between her and Ellie. As of right now Dina's character still revolves around Ellie. She has not been expanded on whatsoever.

Also before anyone brings up the fact that this is an adaptation. I know, but HBO is quite literally known for not respecting the source material even when they have access to their creators, this is currently happening with House of the Dragon. It's very obvious to me that they could have easily adapted the second game into a show without making major changes to the characters, personality traits, core elements, etc., but they just didn't care enough to try and adapt this game with same love and care that they gave the first game and first season.

I'm also starting to feel like a lot of you have forgotten that the last of us is not a romance and that anger, grief and trauma that Ellie went through is very important. It's definitely not something that she should be written out or overshadowed.

[shanastoryteller]

Hi, long time reader. Thank you for your incredible brain and bringing your writing into the outside world. You might have answered it before but I don’t remember ever seeing it. How many times do you read/watch/refer to your source material? Like, do you decide to rewatch a series once every couple of years or do you watch it once, get inspired and then mostly focus on your own interpretation

hi! thank you! :)

answering publicly because it got kinda long and i thought other people might be interested

it depends! usually on how closely a fic is in conversation with the source material and if i've consumed it recently. like for my dead boy detective fic, i'd just watched it, i didn't need to review anything, and i'm often inspired to write after reading/watching

i haven't read harry potter since maybe high school, possibly middle school. i was 13 when deathly hallows came out and i remember being so underwhelmed by it, especially since i hadn't really liked half blood prince either, and i don't think really reread it after. for siat i just use sparknotes or google something something if i can't remember because for a long time it was in pretty close conversation with canon. i'd literally read the sparknotes for a couple chapters, think about how i wanted that to go in my fic, and update the outline. my other hp fic i'd just google something if i couldn't remember

while writing lynchpin, which was very in conversation with canon, i'd literally watch an episode, or to a certain point in the episode, then go and write until that point. i had stuff and arcs in mind, but that's how i kept pace and made sure i didn't miss anything on accident. however, i haven't watched untamed since completing lynchpin, which was my first untamed fic, but nothing else has been so closely in conversation with canon

i didn't consume any canon prior to writing my avengers fic because what good would it do me lol. speak of her is directly after infinity war pt 2 which i've never seen. i just knew that tony died and i thought it was bullshit

at the rind was while i was in the middle of a house rewatch, but anything after season 4/5 i probably googled because that's when i thought the show started to decline

pour herbel oil was definitely in pretty close conversation with the canon. i did with nirvana in fire kind of what i did with untamed, watching any scene with yujin and figuring out how i wanted to slide it a little to the left

supernatural is probably one where i'm most frequently checking the source material directly. this is partially because i first watched it a looooong time ago (like watched real time through most of season 4, although i really hated what they were doing with dean, then fully fell off when season 5 started because i hated the direction it was going so much) and because the boys and their relationship have gone through so many arcs and cycles that i want to make sure i'm hitting them both correctly for the time period they're in. see something say something i'd rewatch the episodes with cases i was including, but not much else, but that fic is probably in the least conversation with canon. back was a direct result of me rewatching when the levee breaks and hating it. no safe investments was just me being like, i think dean should have crashed out waaaay more about sam dying the first time. once i decided to expand the great puzzle i rewatched season 5 so i'd know what i'm working with and it was a SLOG at times, especially early season 5, because the way sam is treated just fills me with rage. but it's like, if i'm going to have the boys dig themselves out of this hole of bullshit, i need to know how deep it goes

so the broad answer is usually not at all, except with specific fics that are in such close conversation with canon that i have to make sure i'm hitting the timeline/references right. i have a pretty good memory so unless we're getting that specific, i don't feel the need to review source material that i haven't in a while

[artbyblastweave]

Okay, Time for that belated Shrinking Rae post-

In the comics, Shrinking Ray's "arc" (bearing in mind an extremely liberal definition of that term, they had exactly one scene showcasing this) was that he was implied to be developing an inferiority complex; he's not necessarily incompetent, but he's out of his niche, his clever shrinking-based plans kept getting upstaged by brute-force solutions from the more conventionally powerful heroes like Invincible. He's the scrawny, nerdy little guy with the joke powers, he never gets a win, and in most fights he literally isn't visible. In the fight with the Lizard League his death is framed as pathetic and ineffectual- there's one or two panels between "I'll make you pay!" and getting eaten alive by Komodo. All of this is doing a couple of things- it's emphasizing that again, this is in fact a story and setting where superheroes sometimes just die really badly with limited fanfare- a thing that IIRC hadn't happened since the original Guardians team wipe in issue 7. Second, it's an indicator that the new Guardians are structurally kind of on the ropes. They're heavily staffed by second stringers, they exact second they have to split their forces they suffer a 66 percent casualty rate, and that's with backing from two capes who aren't actually part of the team. Grim! Anyway, when they do the adaptation Shrinking Ray becomes Shrinking Rae, because they want to tweak the gender balance of the cast and the pun is too good to pass up. But I think that there was a reasonable reluctance to transfer the "arc" from the comics one-to-one, because to be blunt, "Ineffectual Nebbish Glasses-wearer who whines a lot and dies pathetically," paired with absolutely nothing else, is gonna read as misogynistic if the character is a woman now. So in the adaptation Rae is markedly more competent. We're introduced to her taking down a much larger opponent by fucking around inside his ear canal, which becomes a favored trick of hers. There are traces of the self-esteem thing- the visual gag where she physically shrinks about a foot when getting chewed out in the briefing- but the overall throughline isn't "look at this loser who somehow ended up on the guardians." In the Lizard League fight, she doesn't get eaten- she's deliberately trying to execute a Thanus maneuver and just fucks it up, seconds after successfully killing a different villain the same way. And there's a second where it looks like it might work, too, before hope is cruelly yanked away. Which makes for a markedly cooler death scene- but who died? What was actually going on with her? Anything? In some sense she's cooler, but it's kind of an undifferentiated cool. She had what, Six lines? Seven? On balance I think Rae is still doing her fundamental job in the story, which is to pad the Guardians roster for a while and have someone who actually dies and stays dead as a result of the Lizard League fight- but I think they definitely missed an opportunity to give her some more texture than her comic counterpart had. Part of me thinks that the show would have been a good place to go even harder on Shrinking Rae being in over her head, but in a considered way, to emphasize that the Guardians aren't well managed- maybe tie it into the tensions between Robot and Immortal regarding sustainable team management practices. Part of me thinks you should go the other way, that if you're gonna do away with the idea she's underwhelming you should blow up her role, have her actually say and do some things that affect the story or the team dynamic in any noticeable way, because as it stands she's kind of visibly siloed as the designated mauve shirt. I'm definitely of one mind that this showcases something I suspected was gonna bite the show in the ass, which is that they're (laudably) diversifying a secondary and tertiary cast whose main role in the source material is often to die badly or fade out of focus.

[katerinaaqu]

Heyyy on the topic of calypso- I saw someone say that “she was a narrative method of showing the position Odysseus put his war concubines in amid a tragic narrative and the consequences of immorality too” and wanted to know what you thought of that? Especially in connection to the post you made where you explained the nuance you can see the situation with his “prizes” in? Oh and if you have time I also wanted to ask about Hecuba who he was given apparently? Since many ppl say he 🍇 her

To be fair, dear Anon I am not even sure what this means, if I am completely honest. To my understanding is that this person interprets Odysseus's experience as reflecting the slaves that he potentially had after the war or something? I mean if yes, that is to say the very least an interesting perspective not gonna lie and it is possible that such connotations might have been made. Now whether Odysseus had the slaves or not seems easy to answer. I think he did at least from what Agamemnon says and I have answered an ask before in the past here:

There is no guarantee that he used his war prize for sex or not so this is left up for interpretation according to everyone's ideas on the character and since the use of slaves is kinda a gray zone in mythology this also is left for interpretation.

So the idea that Odysseus was supposed to be a "point the finger" character to reverse the concept of war prizes that their feelings are oftentimes (if not most of the time) overlooked or their desires being ignored as their purpose is now being concubines (see Cassandra or Briseis) or servants (Melantho, Euryclea etc) for the lord that bought or won them it is not completely impossible given how the concept of slavery with sexual connotations was touched by ancient sources before by having Heracles being sold as a slave to Omphale. What is more Heracles was dressed in female clothing doing female-related chores while Omphale was dressed in his lion mane and ordered him around. Now that case of course is more like an interesting erotic game material as opposed to the punch in the stomach Odysseus's case was. Interestingly of course his relationship with Calypso was interpreted with positive connotations even by other ancient Greek writers such as Hesiod instead. It could be of course another twist of interpretations in his case but that is another story. Either way as interpretation it is definitely interesting to think of and of course it is a clear show of Homer's part on power imbalance. Maybe he wanted to make this clear by placing Odysseus at the literal mercy of two goddesses just like plenty of women in mythology were placed in situations like this in which the power imbalance between themselves and their persecutor brought them to inability to react.

As for the consequences of immortality I had written a small thing a while ago:

Personally I saw the refusal of immortality by Odysseus as yet another mean Homer used to show how loyal Odysseus remained to his wife, similar to Penelope's refusal to marry any of the young and vigorous suitors despite the pressure, thus placing the two characters at an analogy with each other. However there are other interpretations of immortality for humans in ancient Greece which seems to be the opposite of happy; a sad existence like second death, people forgetting you even existed and you are bound for all eternity to the same spot or the same existence where you remember nothing of your past as a human being and no one else remembers about you.

I am not sure I fully align with this per se at least not as much as Homer is concerned given again the parallels between the one and the other at this case Odysseus and Penelope refusing apparently positive situations out of love and loyalty for each other. But if a "consequence" is the word I would use would be the positive consequence because as I mention to my post, I find it interesting how Odysseus was associated with Achilles in the passage of Nekya and how Achilles tells him and the viewer how terrible death is and how sad and pointless existence is down there so to me it seems indeed as more like the positivity of the life Calypso seems to be leading despite her lonely existence vs the darkness of death that would befall him. It seems that Odysseus would have "his problems fixed" if he accepted Calypso's gifts and yet he didn't. He refused her immortality and her beautiful island or her company to return to his home even if he knew death would come to him eventually or that he would find misery at his home he would have to deal with (as per the Curse of Polyphemus).

Now for Hecuba yes by general confession Hecuba was given to Odysseus as a war prize. Hecuba even laments her fate saying that she has the worst fate of all and berates Odysseus and how terrible man he is (in Euripides's "Trojan Women"). Euripides is also known for depicting Odysseus as a rather devious man as compared to Homer. Other sources like Ovid even tear Odysseus to pieces! In his work "Metamorphosis" mentions how Hecuba was pitifully crying among her dead sons embracing the urns or kissing the bones and Odysseus found her and violently tore her apart from them to claim his prize and took the bones of Hector away from her. Now there is no doubt that Hecuba had a very sad life and a sad end but I cannot find some specific reference to rape by Odysseus. Most sources especially the post-homeric ones that do not exactly paint Odysseus in the most positive way, speak on how Odysseus shows no compassion for her pleading to spare her daughter and basically tells her "not to challenge him or try to fight against him" specifically in the play "Hecuba" if I recall correctly or how as I said in works like Ovid where he mercilessly drags her away from the bodies of her loved ones but I cannot seem to find a reference that he sexually abused her. If anything it feels more like people on Internet speak on that or even some people who comment on it speak about sex is because he takes her as his war prize

I am not aware if there is some ancient scholia referring to Odysseus having sex with Hecuba at all. Most speak on his violent behavior towards her (and again many of the sources that do so already do depict Odysseus in a negative light anyways). I think it is because usually people see "war prize" and immediately think on a sex slave. But even in plays by Euripides is hinted that Odysseus was aiming to use her as a servant for his wife Penelope when he came home rather than use her for his pleasure. Besides Hecuba was considered an old woman so it is not that Odysseus would have a lack of options if he wanted to have sex with a slave in order to sleep with Hecuba much less rape her for it. I mean by Pausanias if I recall correctly, we know that Odysseus was one of those who actively demanded the stoning of Ajax because he raped Cassandra in the temple. I am not sure it is consistent to assume he would commit rape himself.

I hope that answers the question partially

[darkcircles4lyfe]

There's something that's been bothering me for a while now, in terms of bnha's ending and it's final canon pair. I had a hard time understanding the way people seen to interpret their "superiority" over other pairs because they are "pure, healthy and wholesome", adding in how strange the author's intentions came across, and just feeling even more confused.

Until i came across a NileRed video of all things. (It feels so bizarre bringing such a random video to this discussion but bear with me lmao) Where he attempted to make "the world's purest cookie" by creating it in a lab, basically. Using the purest form of every ingredient he was able to find because "well it's pure, so it must be better, right?". And it was very amusing watching a guy who never baked before struggle to make even something so basic, with a decent, easy recipe. Everyone was excited until it came time to taste it, and it ended up being the blandest thing he's ever tasted.

And then another youtuber, Ann Reardon, who's a professional baker, not only explained the wrong in the use of the ingredients showed in the video, but also tested the recipe he used normally, and the result was just a nice choc chip cookie. There was nothing wrong with it.

Nile's entire problem was that he didn't know a thing about the nuances of baking as a science of it's own, and only went by what he, a chemist with no experience in baking, thought would work the best.

To me, that is literally that pair's entire existence in physical form. People in favor of it use the first basis of how "pure and predictable" is good regardless, because they deemed it inherently healthy but didn't bother with actually analysing it further. The story had the recipe for a regular, typical shonen romance, but both use of it and ingredients were all totally wrong.

And the author, not having any experience with writing romance, did what he thought was best, (maybe because he liked them together and was attached), but fumbled tremendously when he realized he wouldn't be able to make them happen organically, because it was too late, it didn't fit anywhere else in the story, and there were too many things in the way as well. So he did what he could to side step them into a believable conclusion, but in doing so, he sacrificed his story's flavor and complexity for something that fell flat and became unpopular among true fans of the series.

"I think that my interpretation of purity was naive... Purity didn't have anything to do with flavor or smell or texture. Purity is its own thing, and if you want to achieve true purity, you must sacrifice everything. Everything that makes it worth it."

(fantastic quote from the NileRed NileBlue video)

Anon, you've really charmed me with this metaphor, and I think it works. The details get a little fuzzy once you know that the "pure" ingredients he got are actually made so you know exactly what's in them, not necessarily so that they are impurity-free. But he still applied an extreme level of hubris in using chemistry lab materials to make a "perfect" or "better" cookie, without understanding anything about the very different science that is baking. Like, he didn't know what baker's chocolate even is. Besides, what he sought was impossible, because chocolate practically cannot be made 100% without "bug parts" etc. And in the end, he made a really fucking terrible cookie anyway. I'm fascinated by the fact that it didn't even have a smell...

I'm definitely not one to judge ships against each other to say that one is inherently better, but when the other side keeps pushing this idea of purity, it does make me pause. Do they like it because it's bland? Because it ticks off all their morality requirements? Because it affirms their idea of normal? Honestly I'd have a lot more respect for them if they openly rejected what the source material has given them in favor of what their own imaginations can come up with. Some do, to be sure, but most still try to defend canon. Come on. Give them something to struggle with each other over and grow from. Anything but this constant unspoken blushing awkwardness.

I do want to put a small wrinkle in what you've said, though. I don't want to assume Horikoshi was doing what he thought was best with 431. Think about it this way. If he, much like many shonen mangaka like Oda for example, set out to write a story where romance is not the focus because he wasn't interested in writing those kinds of plots, but instead more interested in developing plots that are based in politics, friendship, family, sacrifice, and examining the dichotomy of "good" and "evil," why not maintain that priority through the end? Why would he spend dozens of pages systematically dismantling everything he cared about in the first place for the sake of something he clearly viewed as secondary? Like yeah, maybe he did think they were cute and was still attached to the idea of them ending up together, but I can't believe he thought they were worth this much compared to everything else he actually put effort into.

However, this "pure cookie" metaphor you've made fits quite well with how publishing can operate, where the rules of marketing are often erroneously applied to art of storytelling, like lab chemistry to baking. The things that give the story its uniqueness and flavor are refined and boiled down for the sake of making it predictable, benign, safe, easy to digest. So it can sell. So it can avoid controversy with conservative society. I'm honestly really sick of debating all the points of this ending as if they are definitely 100% only Horikoshi's vision or personal mistakes. We really don't know that and maybe we never will. I for one at least hope that we keep in mind that censorship is still a very real and current issue, and I'm not going to speak ill of the dead, as it were.

btw, I was largely inspired by this thread about Steven Universe on twitter, and tbh I include this reasoning not just for 431, but other things along the way, especially the last 10-15 chapters or so.

[ashesandhalefire]

despite how long this got, it is Not That Serious and also nothing other people haven’t already said, but i’m still so angry about the way the 8x06 breakup was handled because it really has irreparably damaged the way i’m able to engage with the source material. on any other show, it would have read like a breakdown in communication that could potentially be resolved. i know this not because i am Media Literate but because i am a child of the cw. i know characters come and go and sometimes you get a stupid breakup and that's it, and i know sometimes you get idiot plots and miscommunication and the couple gets back together. but as is the way of network television, both are equally possible. fuckass abby plot aside, 8x06 was two characters clumsily expressing a desire to be serious and long term with each other. that is not an insurmountable conflict, nor is it an altogether unexpected romance plot. but the journalists, and please rest assured i am using that title very loosely, that report on the show are so entrenched with some of the most vile factions of the fandom that the aftermath was such an explosion of celebratory gloating, biased interviews, and thoughtless sound bites from tptb that i genuinely felt physically repulsed by the thought of reengaging with the source material for several days. and it was barely even about the source material itself. "we made 8x05 like that so 8x06 would hurt more" in combination with "it's an exit interview" and "#letbuckfuck" was really just a lethal fucking combination of disrespect.

and now it's like five episodes later and those "the plot device is never coming back" exit interviewers look stupid as fuck and i should be able to enjoy it. i should be able to enjoy the setup of buck hooking up with tommy, tommy wanting to get back together with buck, both of them being idiots about it, and buck wanting to call tommy. i should be allowed to play with the dolls in the sandbox and enjoy it, but i can't because there's always this little voice in the back of my head telling me that i should wait for the other shoe to drop. and it's not even coming from the nasty portion of the fandom or the obnoxious reporters or the bumbling social media team that spends all day heaving fuel onto the fires. it’s just my own self-preservation instincts kicking in because in the stupidest and simplest terms, this show was very mean to me. it's a dog that bit me and i'm reluctant to stick my hand out and get bitten again. because even if i have moments where i'm sure the dog isn't going to bite me, i also definitely suspect that the dog wants to bite me and all the people watching me pet the dog are hoping i get bitten and if the dog does, somehow, end up biting me, it's going to be written about on the internet like of course the dumb bitch got bitten by a dog.

and i want to be able to watch the scene of buck with maddie and say to myself, "well, buck was baking before all of this eddie-adjacent loneliness, and he's baking after all of the eddie-adjacent loneliness, so, okay, a drunken hookup isn't a Good Reason(TM) to get back together with somebody in and of itself, but buck does have a good reason... and the reason is that he misses tommy and never wanted to break up in the first place and ultimately the catalyst for breaking up lies with tommy's complicated feelings about it whereas buck seems very clear on where his feelings lie. so this should be a good thing. this should make me optimistic about what we may get in coming episodes." and then this insidious little voice in my head starts going, "yeah, but what if you're actually just a dumb bitch that deserves to get bitten by a dog."

i just cannot stop the evil little voice from identifying every single thing that could be interpreted in the least fun way possible because it does not want to be blindsided like that again after committing the heinous crime of "being invested in the on-screen relationship" and it's not fair! like what the fuck! tommy "self sabotage" kinard i have never understood you more than i do in this post 8x06 world jesus fucking christ!! it's my turn to start biting!!!

[thingsthatbleedfic]

Not sure if I'm supposed to keep this to just asking questions, but I needed to gush and I'm not good at ao3 comment etiquette.

I stumbled across TTB on complete accident after seeing this meme and picked it up just for the heck of it, and BOY WAS I IN FOR A HECK OF A RIDE(R. haha, get it?) OR WHAT? But I felt a little out of place and like an outsider because

I entered the Phandom for the first time exactly 31 days ago and my only knowledge comes from the >5 episodes I watched before I got bored and dropped it years ago (and promptly ejected from my brain), and then fanfiction I have been VIOLENTLY AND CONSISTANTLY CONSUMING LIKE A RABID VACUUM for the last month when I got interested in it again.

I had literally never heard of Alex Rider before this fic.

I like SCP, but all my knowledge comes from a podcast I listen to but they're going numerically and they've only gotten up to SCP-123, oh and and Markiplier.

THAT BEING SAID, I didn't need to worry because this is one of the best fics I've ever read. It has LITERALLY been keeping me up at night staring at the ceiling because I couldn't freaking stop thinking about it.

It stands out in a crowd, and out of the all MANY crossovers I've read in my time, TTB is one of, like, four fics that I can confidently say feel like their own original fiction, one cohesive world that's well blended, each media and character perfectly meshed and interacting with eachother and the lore like they always belonged together.

Deadass, I sent the fic to my sibling immediately after I finished it because I needed someone to scream about it to even though they understand even less of the source material than I, and we've decided to watch the Alex Rider show together and they told me "I'm going to be sad when we watch this and Danny isn't canon".

Fantastic work, massive kudos for making one of the best feels-like-it's-not-a-crossover crossovers. I was hooked by the first few paragraphs, so suspenseful, on the edge of my seat the entire time, and I lost so much sleep and sanity to this masterpiece. Y'all rock.

This ask is SO kind and amazing we all wanted to reply!!! Hope you don't mind!

KEI: omg!!!! this ask was such a delight to get. Ive read this over and over, youre so SO kind. I'm glad youve been able to enjoy TTB even not knowing things about AR or SCP. That was always our goal--we've even had people that know nothing about any of the fandoms read it and enjoy it! Dude. My MOM reads it and was upset when she caught up. I hope you don't still feel like an outsider bc we are SO happy youre here and clearly, anyone is welcome no matter where they're coming from as far as fandom knowledge goes <3 Thank you for reading and giving our niche as fuck crossover a shot !

KKACHI: i'm so glad chance brought you to our little corner of the internet! we're very proud we managed to conceive a seamless blend of the various canons. being sad that danny isn't canon is definitely an emotion we've also felt. please make sure you get enough sleep and we hope you enjoy the next update!!!

FIN: wahhhh!!! thank you so so much. i gotta ditto what the others have said - i'm so glad you can enjoy the fic no matter what. i'm also glad that it's inspired you to also check out some of this funky media very near and dear to our hearts (because of course it is because why else would we be this crazy if it wasn't)

also, i'm always honored and proud to write the kinda fics people lose sleep over KJDGFKJGS cuz god knows i love losing sleep over fics too <3

[myfandomrealitea]

saw ur post about going incognito into spaces and stuff and i wanted to add my own thoughts about my experience of basically being stuck in places where proshippers r hated (not against wut ur saying! i definitely agree that theres no benefits and honestly its not that fun)

the fandom that im currently in is.. very toxic. someone got harassed to the point of having to delete their account bc they "supported" a proshipper (it was literally just them saying that u shouldnt harass this person just bc theyre proship-). a lot of my friends were very supportive of this person and agreed that ppl shouldnt be harassed over shit like that and many of them seem to have similar viewpoints as me (anti harassment and all that) but prefer to stay away from that stuff

the fandom is basically ran by antis. theres a small corner that some ppl have made where they talk about proship stuff freely (love those ppl so much theyre genuinely so nice) but overall its. not the best place to be if ur proship. which is interesting to me bc theres actually a shocking amount of proshippers that just... dont say anything. on my side blog ive had multiple ppl interact that i thought were anti (or at least just. not proship in some way) but would literally go and like all my posts about incest ships of the characters.

and sometimes i think about it and how theres actually a bunch of proshippers but we're so heavily harassed and silenced that we just- dont say anything. but the fandom is small and we cant exactly separate ourselves from it if we really like the show. and i feel especially bad for some of the bigger blogs that ppl love and adore bc i know wut would happen if somehow ppl found out and made some big post or wutever.

i dont pretend to be antiship but i dont outright say im proship unless i really trust that person

im currently trying to make my own lil space with some friends so at least if anything goes wrong i at least have a few ppl but its a bit scary to think about honestly-

Although it can be full of snot-nosed superiority complexes, I do recommend using the AO3 Subreddit in order to find likeminded people for your fandom. The very vast majority of the AO3 Subreddit is proship or at least proship neutral. Antis are generally eviscerated on sight whenever they try to poke their nose into it.

If you have any other fandoms that you are active in or have friends within, there's also no harm in introducing them to your small fandom.

From what I understand the Marvel fandom did kind of the same thing you're describing with the Starker shippers, but they flourished and supported each other anyway.

I know its easy for me to simply say 'do it anyway' as someone who generally could not give a fuck about anyone's opinion of me, but honestly. Do it anyway. Form your little collective. Support each other. Learn how to write and draw and make GIFs so you feed your own portion of the fandom. You physically do not need those people, it just unfortunately takes a bit of effort and means potentially a bit less content until you start really generating your own.

Fandom spaces do not start out from nothing. Promote the shit out of your fandom. Draw people in. Comb through the proship tags and send asks to blogs like mine asking other proshippers to check out the source material.

People in small fandoms are easy to bully because you're so enclosed into this circle of the exact same people. They happen to be the majority in the room and they're weaponising it.

Force them into a bigger room.

[louisirl]

A Real Living Fictional Character & Fictionkin

My personal experience as someone who identifies as a fictional character (fictionkin) is rooted in a deep connection to a singular fictional identity. While I acknowledge the canon of my source material, I interpret it subjectively—based on my own lived experience. This means that while I do honor the core of the character, I also recognize the flaws and contradictions in the portrayal that don’t align with my personal identity. I have a strong sense of my canonical identity, so when certain concepts conflict with that, they immediately stand out to me.

For example, I identify more strongly with the Vampire Chronicles book series and show, while distancing myself from the movie adaptations. I don’t see the movies as canonically accurate for several reasons and neither did the writer herself. Someone else who also identifies as Louis, however, may feel a stronger connection to the films than the TV series especially due to the changes in adaptation. In being an adaptation I acknowledge the many changes made throughout the show that subjects me to being arguably non-canonical to some, as well. That’s a debate for another day.

I experience profound dysphoria (and euphoria) and a strong desire to live out my fictional identity in reality. This means adopting my canon name in real life, living in the location associated with my source, and aligning my life with this identity in a way that feels authentic to who I am. It’s crucial to my happiness an I couldn’t ever live happily without expressing my fictional identity as it is literally who I am.

In light of this, I’ve been seeking a new term that is more specific to my experience as other fictionkin have expressed sharing similar experiences. While the term “fictionkin” is widely used, it often now focuses on the quantity of identities rather than the depth of connection to one’s already acknowledged or confirmed. Though I enjoy celebrating source material, it doesn’t fulfill me as I also celebrate other sources that I don’t identify from.

I want to clarify that this is not meant to invalidate others who identify with multiple fictional characters—this is simply not an experience I personally relate to. For me, my fictional identity is singular, and despite being alterhuman for nearly a decade and a half, I still feel like I’ve only touched the surface in fully understanding the depth of my connection to my fictionhood.

Though I see nothing wrong with the fictionkin label itself I just don’t feel the definition and community encompass very important aspects to my experience. (I.e. Identifying as a Fictional Character literally despite not being delusion-based, Desire to express that one identity in Real Life, etc.)

[tg-pilled]

Let's discuss: Queerness in Tokyo Ghoul!

To start off, I just want to mention that these are things I have noticed. Nothing is necessarily canon (or non canon) but it's something I'm very interested in. I've been learning a lot in the queer horror club I'm in and it's been really fun dissecting Tokyo Ghoul in the same way!

This will go character to character. It's not going to be a complete list as there's SO much to cover but...

Kaneki: Not to state the obvious but his friendship with Hide surpasses a Lot of what heteronormativity usually allows. I don't think he's even fully aware of his attraction until after he meets Touka. Because Hide had been such a permanent fixture in his life growing up, they never really had ever been apart. Their bond is deep and strong and definitely can be looked at from an extremely queer perspective. (I'm not trying to say that all men who show affection to one another are queer because that is simply not true.) Once he becomes a ghoul and he has that separation from Hide, I think that is when his sexuality is fully recognized. Especially in the manga, his bond with Hide runs deeper than with almost every other character. I'd say the exception to that rule is Touka in :re. In the manga during the death kiss, he didn't even know if Hide was real or not. He was in such a state of disorientation and confusion but Hide was still the one that he saw. Of course, Hide was actually there with him. But because Kaneki was in such a delirious state, surely he could have hallucinated the death kiss to be with Touka? Or anyone else? Why specifically did Hide come to mind during that time? Again, he was in a moment of crisis and Hide had always been that stability for him but it's just curious to think about...

Hide: I've seen and read so many different rumours about how Sui Ishida intended for Hide to be canonically bisexual. However, I can't find that interview or confession ANYWHERE in a way that makes it clear that Sui Ishida actually said that so we will disregard that for now. Setting that aside, Hide has a very intriguing point of view of Kaneki. His insight on Kaneki's life is the closest we get to an outside perspective of Kaneki's behaviour from an intimate view. Obviously we see other ghouls, CCG members, etc. studying the way Kaneki behaves but we never see it in the same way that we do with Hide. That boy has been taking notes on Kaneki since he first started acting odd. He caught onto Kaneki being a ghoul with ease (ofc this depends on the version as well. We are ignoring the live action version because it screws up the source material.) No matter how hard Kaneki tried, he could not get Hide to stop caring and stop observing. Hide went undercover in both the CCG and ghoul world to make sure Kaneki was okay. His life centred around Kaneki. That in itself is a confession of love and not in the platonic way.

Uta: Setting aside the way he looks at Renji for a moment, his entire being breaks the norms which is what queerness and queer history has always been. Uta quite literally makes masks so ghouls can create a whole other identity surrounding their otherness. His entire presence screams queer-coded.

Tsukiyama: I don't think I need to explain this one much tbh but his obsession with Kaneki cannot be overlooked. It is obviously super creepy in a lot of way and he crosses a TON of boundaries. However, that level of obsession is definitely not in a "you're my guy pal, let's go lift weights at the gym" (idk what cishet men do I'm sorry). His fascination with both the male and female ghouls feels very queer to me even though it is to an extreme that needs to be observed and dissected with caution.

Nico: He is the embodiment of a gay stereotype. Obviously not all rep is good rep but he definitely fits the mold and he is definitely queer, no doubt about it.

Mutsuki: Without a doubt, he is trans. Many people argue "oh he only transitioned so he could become a Quinx Squad member and change his identity better blah blah blah." HOWEVER. I raise you: once Urie found out his assigned gender at birth, why did he feel so deeply uncomfortable? Obviously, he was worried that Urie would tell everyone and their mom but even after Urie kept that a secret, he was still nervous. It's almost like he didn't want to be treated differently because of his assigned gender at birth and transition... There is a lot about Mutsuki that could have been handled better but I also think that him keeping his preferred name, pronouns, etc. is so important. Not once did Urie question it, he just wanted Mutsuki to keep doing his job well. Mutsuki is a very complex character and you can dissect his storyline from a million povs but I think first and foremost that he is trans and that there isn't really a question as to whether or not he wants to be referred to as a man or not

Overall, all these characters are only a small part of an even LARGER queer analogy! Tokyo Ghoul is about a man learning to grapple with being both ghoul AND human. Taking this into account, a ton of queer people have to be worried about being 'found out' or 'outed' because we live in a world where it is dangerous for queer people to exist still (much like it is dangerous for ghouls to exist). Kaneki is coming to terms with the fact that he might not be fully human (or the societal norm). Learning to deal with that, especially when you feel like you're the first EVER because you have no prior experience or relationships with other members of the LGBTQ+ community is terrifying! That feeling of 'otherness' or 'monstrosity' is unfortunately something a lot of queer folks have to go through. The CCG has a very religious/governmental parallel to it and could even be used as a metaphor for the hate that queer people receive from institutions that benefit from our suffering. However, Akira AND Amon both empathize with Takizawa eventually and are subject to abuse and rejection because they love and care about someone in the 'other' community. Haise's transition and morphing with Kaneki is a beautiful metaphor for how many queer people will try to be 'normal' or conform to society for protection but you always kind of know your identity is there. As mentioned earlier, Uta makes masks for other ghouls so they can create a separate identity to protect themselves when trying to exist. That feeling of two separate identities, two separate worlds that you think cannot combine is SO common in the queer community. Kaneki feeling like he isn't enough of ghoul OR human to fit into the world at all is often how queer people are treated too. Being told you're not enough of something and being rejected by communities who allegedly were there to protect you. To conclude, I'd like to say thank you for reading all this (if you did) and also feel free to add on, debate, or include things I'm missing! Also I wrote this very very sleep deprived so I'm sorry about my grammar. Okay goodnight oomfies

[aprofessionalwithoutstandards]

what i also find baffling about their take on the tf2 comics is how they don't get the "spirit" of the game??? not even expiration date is good enough for them apparantly??? im sorry but if everything was kept exactly the same as it was when the game first came out, with the characters remaining one dimensional stereotypes, it would obviously become stagnant and stale after a while and they probably would not be nearly as beloved as they are. At this point do you even like tf2 if nothing that came out 2013 onwards is good enough for you lmao

TBHHHH this is just a very like. "all old things are good and all new things are bad and change is bad and everything should stay the same way forever" take that is Extremely common among gamers (look at like. people who pretend like tfc is actually better than tf2 basically "because it's old" LMAOOO). I think it's an extremely boring and sad way to look at tf2 if you want it to remain how it was at launch forever and misses the "spirit" of it more than any fanfiction ever could. I think people kinda just refuse to realize that the extremely silly, extremely lighthearted nature of a lot of fan content is literally just the tone of the source material, and has been the tone of the source material for Ages. If you like wholeheartedly believe that the tf2 comic is representative of "bad media literacy" bc it's too historically inaccurate and makes the comedy hat men be too nice to each other, you genuinely don't actually like tf2 and like the version of tf2 that exists only within your head and in the competitive servers you play Anger Sniper on. There is a specific subgenre of poster on this website who rants about Le Cringe And Lame Fandomites With No Critical Thinking Skills while at the same time showing that their idea of "critical thinking" means "being negative" and that they don't actually understand or even LIKE the thing they're talking about. Like I'm sorry but if the mainline comic, the update comics, Expiration Date, the Meet the Team videos, like half of the cosmetic items, and a good portion of the canon voicelines that the characters say in the game aren't up to your standard of what "the spirit of tf2" is, you don't actually like or "get" tf2 at all. Tf2's willingness to not take itself seriously is what makes it stand out in a sea of like very Hardcore And Serious shooter games, it takes the trademark Valve touch of humor and runs with it as far as it can (it's Definitely more overtly "a comedy" than something like Portal or Left 4 Dead in my opinion) in ways that I KNOW will not be to everyone's taste, I know some people will just read it as "lul randuhm", but that's the nature of the source. That's the point of what tf2 is. You don't have to like it but at least don't pretend you do and that ur the only one on the planet to understand it properly LMAO

[oddygaul]

The Hunger Games Cinematic Universe

To preface, it does feel a little weird to critique these movies as if they sprung from nowhere. They’re all pretty faithful adaptations, which is relevant because many of my problems with this series are structural / worldbuilding issues, and so aren’t necessarily the fault of the adaptation as much as the source material itself. On the other hand, it’s pretty easy to rattle off some adaptations that took risks and made something fairly transformative - Jackson’s Lord of the Rings, or anything Masaaki Yuasa has adapted come to mind  - so fuck em, they’re fair game.

(I’d seen the first two movies a decade ago, and read the trilogy after that. Ballad and the Mockingjay films were new to me.)

The Hunger Games

Okay, so the original holds up as far as I’m concerned. What sets it apart from much of the post-apocalyptic or action YA that I’ve seen is ultimately how grounded it manages to keep its portrayal of all the kids. I think a lot of fiction with a similar premise tend to falls prey to Anime Syndrome: yes, all the characters are 16 or 17 or whatever, and the authors will make them do some classic teen angst things like get into stupid arguments and be deeply hormonal, but they fail to have the kids react to the horrifying situations they find themselves in convincingly. This is the plight of any battle shounen: the characters are literally fighting to the death against some manner of horrible supernatural monster, or even other human beings, yet will be written like a little devil-may-care badass, or even be stoked about getting to tEsT tHEiR LiMitS! If you’re going for a fun action show, that’s fine, but if you’re trying to sell it as a drama, you’ve already lost your biggest chip.

The Hunger Games (the first one, mind) never forgets that all its characters are young as hell. The absolute shaking terror of the cornucopia, the wide eyed panic as Katniss and Foxface come face-to-face and realize that neither of them wants to do harm, even Cato’s eleventh hour realization that his entire life and persona are ultimately meaningless*, all fill the story with a pathos that makes the movie work, despite some inherent YA cheese.

*Probably my favorite addition to the movie.

I really love the stupid-ass beard they gave this guy

Catching Fire

Yeah, this is where it starts to fall apart for me. The first act prior to the Games is pretty compelling; our look into Katniss’ PTSD, her and Peeta’s inability to reintegrate into society as if nothing happened, and the acute, sudden horror they’re slammed with upon realizing they’re being forced back into the games are all handled incredibly well. The first half hour of this movie feels like slowly waking up from a bad dream, only to realize you’re still asleep.

After that, though… eh.

I think what bothers me about the Games themselves in this one is that everyone taking part is an adult now. Part of what makes the concept of the Hunger Games so brutal is the age of the contestants - and not merely in a pearl-clutching, oh-jeez-it’s-so-horrible-to-see-this-violence-done-upon-the-youth sort of way. There’s just a special abhorrence tied to watching a bunch of children, who ought to have their whole lives ahead of them, slowly have the dawning realization that their whole world is now this mere microcosm, in which their only options are murder or death. Watching this emotional turmoil play out differently for each character is what makes the setup compelling; horrible, wrenching, but compelling.

So, having the idea for this one be that these grown-ass adults, each of whom has (by definition of being a victor) gone through this incredible trauma before, is willing to go back again and fight like it was the first time? I dunno, it feels goofy to me. And I’m not saying they have a choice to participate - I know it’s mandated - I mean that once they’re in the arena, half of them seem to go “oh well, here I go killin’ again!” like they’re clocking in for a job. It’s not like they’re sliding back into their old psychology by force once they’re in the arena, either - even in the training center, the careers are doing their usual sneering badass routine. You could make the argument that successful careers are the most likely to have child actor syndrome - that they stopped emotionally maturing after the Games and are stoked to be back in their element, Football Player That Peaked in High School style - but that feels so reductive.

I guess the fact that half of the tributes get in on the Secret Rebellion Plan kind of addresses this - they are working toward a goal in the background - but it still feels off. I wish the movie spent more time exploring the mindset of all the contestants before the games started to flesh out their motivations. As is, the Games here no longer feel like blood sport exploring the psychological response to trauma - they’re just blood sport.

Also, the violence feels very sanitized. Say what you will about the shakycam used in the first movie (it is undoubtedly excessive at times), but the confusion it provides combined with the blood makes the 74th Games feel absolutely terrifying. It gives the sense that no one is prepared for how primal things are becoming as the situation descends into a barbaric haze of violence. In Catching Fire, meanwhile, the bloodbath feels like it’s by-the-numbers for everybody - Katniss and friends group up and just start killin’ Bad Guys** right off the bat like it’s nothing, barely even watching their backs as they talk to each other. I read that the director of #2 and on made an intentional decision not to show blood, because he doesn’t like ‘glorifying violence’... I truly don’t understand how showing a bunch of characters cleanly and effortlessly killing other people like they’re in a Marvel movie is any better.

**This is just a symptom of my larger issues with the worldbuilding, but I really think the careers and their motivation get such short shrift in these movies. They explore it a bit in the first movie, but in Catching Fire they’re fully content to have the careers be easy Evil Bad Guys that the viewer isn’t supposed to feel bad for when they die. It’s another touch that betrays its YA roots, and reminds me of Harry Potter - “Welcome to Hogwarts! We’ve sorted you into the evil house for evil, no-good children, which exists because we need to have antagonists.”

This is also where the rebellion bits start popping up, but I’ll talk about those in a moment because…

Mockingjay I & II

…that’s what these entire movies are about and it’s so, so dicey.

Honestly, to me it feels like Collins had a great idea for a standalone book, but then, by dint of it being YA, was obligated to have the characters eventually band together to take down the big bad Capitol, and just didn’t have a great grasp on how the wider world worked or what a strong revolution story looks like. I think this story worked the best when it was only a small snapshot of the world, with all the periphery implied; the more it’s forced to get into the real nitty gritty of how the setting works, the more ramshackle and unbelievable everything feels, and Mockingjay is where it hits a breaking point. It’s not that there are plot holes, exactly, it’s that we see so little of the wider world that everything feels grossly oversimplified.

I think this is where these films’ dogged adherence to the source material really screws them over. While the books are also lacking in worldbuilding and context from the perspective of other characters, it makes sense there because the books are all first-person POV. Of course we don’t get cutaways to citizens in the Capitol ruminating on their role in all this, or seeing the inner workings of the Peacekeepers to give them any characterization whatsoever outside of being blank plastic suits, because Katniss doesn’t see that. Since the movies have fully done away with this conceit, though, the omission of these supporting scenes feels glaring - especially when the movies are trying so hard to push this theme that everyone has their own fight, and both sides have a reason for their actions.

So, on that note, thematically it’s a fucking mess. It dips its toes into a dozen different themes without really firmly exploring any of them, leaving it feeling indecisive and tonally inconsistent. For example, Mockingjay I spends its intro showing the effect Katniss’ PTSD is having on her, and challenging the idea that just because someone has gone through trauma, they’re a hero and ought to be set up as the mouthpiece of the revolution - how can you ethically put the responsibility of leadership on someone who gets the shakes every time they hear a bang? …but then, not to worry, show her a cool superhero outfit and she’s out there shooting down gunships with fuckin Hawkeye arrows by dinnertime.

And the wider revolution story has many similar issues. What’s your message? Dictators are bad? Wow, what a take. Both sides committed atrocities, so they’re both bad? Politics are hard and messy, and you just gotta keep your head down and hope you can retire to the country? Yeah, way to really take a hard stance on that one.

If I put all that aside, it generally works as a character piece - Katniss and Peeta’s development over the course of the story, in particular, is well done through and through, and it feels rare to see a broad appeal series like have the nerve to take its leads to such dark places. There’s also a lot of surprisingly great character acting throughout; my personal standouts are Hutcherson, Stanley Tucci, and (surprisingly) Woody Harrelson, but there’s honestly not a bad actor in the bunch, which is impressive. Still, with the subject material being so heavy, it’s hard for me just to take it at face value like that, and I wish they shored up the weaker elements a bit.

I’m just saying, if you spend that much of your screentime showing crowds of children being murdered by IEDs, I think you ought to be building towards a strong statement. 

The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes

Yeah, this one felt like a waste of a movie in a really weird way. The execution was incredibly well done - lots of solid acting, production design, etc, which is a huge waste because the basic premise of the movie is fucking worthless.

So, the whole point, I would say, of doing a prequel is to flesh out interesting parts of your universe that you didn’t have time for in the original work. Unanswered questions, a character’s past that you want to learn more about, a deeper dive into parts of the world or lore that weren’t touched on but caught people’s imagination. The Hunger Games series has plenty of gaps that need to be filled: I said above how incredibly small the world seems due to barely exploring any of the capitol, other districts, etc., so it was ripe for a prequel or spinoff! Let us spend some time in other districts, see how other people live and feel about the whole thing. Even if we’re not going post-war, and are going back to the era of the Games (which of course we would), there’s 75 years worth of questions to explore.

Instead of focusing on any of that, the premise of this movie (/book) is “Hey, you know the villain from the original story that seemed like a huge, irredeemable piece of shit? Let’s spend a two and a half hour runtime telling you his backstory, which will show you that actually… he’s always been a piece of shit”. Wow. Spellbinding.

Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a main character being a bad person. Particularly, if your character is charismatic, they don’t necessarily have to be right or good to be interesting to watch; there’s a certain magnetism to watching that for a lot of people. It’s never been my cup of tea, to be honest; whether pegged as comedy (Always Sunny) or drama (Breaking Bad), I get fed up really quickly when I hate everyone in a piece of fiction. But done correctly, it can still be interesting - showing how a character ended up where they are, showing you a rare good side of them you’d never seen, or showing that they used to be moral, but just happened to be tested one too many times and fell off the deep end.

Snow is none of these. He’s a piece of shit from the first time we see him, he consistently acts like a piece of shit to everyone around him, and then he ends up, in fact, being a piece of shit***. What’s interesting about that?

***I think the most generous interpretation I could give of his character is a piece of shit who briefly dabbles in transactional friendship after Lucy Gray saves him from the rubble, then shortly thereafter returns to being a piece of shit. Which I still do not find especially compelling.

Even outside of that, it’s one of those prequels that does nothing but make the world feel smaller - rather than expanding on any of the dozens of untouched ideas in the series, we spend a bunch more time in District 12, and show that, actually, it turns out Snow and his hangups are the only reason anything happened in this universe for nearly 100 years. From Katniss’ name to the Hanging Tree song she sings, turns out half the things we learned in The Hunger Games resulted from this one particular guy’s life story. In a series that already felt like the world was too small and was in desperate need of expansion, further narrowing the scope feels like such a misstep.

Why yes, I did need to know exactly what the Kessel Run was!

Odds & Ends

I mostly blocked out my memories of Mockingjay the book from the single time I read it back in the day, because I thought it was booty, but the one thing I remembered liking that they changed up was Finnick’s death. In the book, he’s just there one moment and gone the next, without any fanfare or time to grieve, which serves to make his death feel especially cruel. I suppose it was inevitable, but counter-intuitively, the Big Hollywood Death Scene they gave him here felt a lot less impactful.

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A point about the series in general: boy did the costume design bother me. It’s interesting, because all I remembered about it from when this series blew up was the gaudy Capitol style and how crazy the internet was about it. Watching these movies again, I feel like that success was a total fluke, because everything else is goofy as hell. The way that every district has their own bespoke fucking Civil War re-enactment outfits is wild - look, the ‘District 11 is just one big Southern plantation’ thing was always really obvious, but seeing each district dressed up like they're from competing historical re-enactment groups was wild.

The prequel turns this up to 11. I feel like someone on the team though they were real clever - this one’s set 60 years earlier, so let’s make all the outfits and design retro! What? People in flapper clothes, the lake scene with their 1940s swimsuits, even the logo and graphic design in the Hunger Games broadcasting room looking like it’s from the 50s - it doesn’t make any fucking sense. Yeah, they’re set decades before the original books - in the year, like, 2300. What, everyone just forgot how to do graphic design again after the war? Fashion is cyclical, but not like this…

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Also, movies 1 and 2 in particular definitely have some uncomfortable racial dynamics going on. I was already weirded out that a lot of the districts seem to be separated by ethnicity, but as you go on, it’s hard to ignore how nearly every Black person seems to exist solely to help Katniss along in her quest before dying horribly and usually on-camera. Rue, Thresh, Cinna, even that old man that flashes the salute in District 11… it’s remarkably consistent.

[iridescentdecays]

1, 3, 14 for the ask game!

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?*

for marvel, definitely steve/tony would have to be #1. i've hated it since 2012 when i was into an entirely different section of the mcu and i will hate it until my dying day! they're bland together and honestly they're both pretty bland apart -- i did used to have a huge Thing for tony back in the day (see: all the frostiron i wrote from june 2012 to january 2013, lmao) but i don't care for him anymore and i've never been overly fond of steve (except right after civil war came out i remember being very staunchly team cap, but anyway)

other fandoms i've been active in/enjoyed the source material: brienne/jaime, dean/cas, cas/meg, rey/ren. that last one is a BIG one and honestly prob should've listed it first before steve/tony even, but fuck it. i cannot stand that ship lmao. the rabid fans made me absolutely loathe it as time went on but like, even right after tfa came out i remember looking on tumblr and seeing that it was a Thing and being like uhh, what? bc adam driver and daisy ridley have zero chemistry and did Not play it like there was sexual tension, romantic tension, or any other kind of shippable tension. it just fucking baffles me beyond comprehension. it's like walking into a bakery and seeing that their top selling item is a fucking....... idk, fancy caviar spread

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?

omg ok i started out very tentatively saying yes to this bc i wasn't positive, but as i typed i remembered that it is a Definite Yes, lmao. i had to unfollow like, 98% of my friends when i was into supernatural bc they all hated lucifer and would reblog posts that talked shit abt him, or they would talk shit abt him in their tags, or they would talk shit abt his relationship with sam in the tags, and i just couldn't handle it haha. there prob have been others over the years but that's the biggest one i can think of off the top of my head

Unpopular opinion about your fandom?

oof. okay to save time let's just list the two i'm most active in lmao. for mcu....... well, idk if this is even an opinion so much as a fact, but i have zero interest in watching anything that's come out since civil war. in fact i haven't watched anything EXCEPT winter soldier in like..... close to a decade. i know a lot of my friends have seen the newer movies (endgame, antman, etc.) and are into the shows, but i just don't give a fuck. i stopped caring abt mcu for a longgggggg time and when i got back into it four years ago it was only for ws, and that's the way it's been ever since. i like the gritty political thriller and the realism of it all. it's like the dark knight for marvel. all the big flashy CGI battles and shit is just too much. i remember going to see dr. strange with my mom in the theater and literally being unable to follow the plot bc there was just so. fucking. much. cgi. and i know ppl who act like they have to keep up with the shows/movies/etc. and it's like no?? you really don't???? lmao. like, obv if you WANT to that's one thing, but you're not contractually obligated to or w/e

for the (secret, third) fandom which shall not be named here (not unlike voldemort!), my unpopular opinions are based on which part of the internet i'm on. if i'm on the subreddits about the case it's that fanworks related to one or both boys (fanfiction, fanart, etc.) are completely fine; there's nothing wrong with creative expression even of such a sensitive topic. there's also nothing wrong with romanticization/glorification/etc. it's all good. ppl's brains work differently and everyone looks at/understands different controversial shit in different ways

if i'm on tumblr my unpopular opinion is that adults are allowed to like the case AND be attracted to one or both boys; i don't agree with ppl who hold the opinion that the latter is wrong, but i can at least see where they're coming from with it; but for the former it's like the reylo thing. it just makes no sense to me. adults aren't allowed to have interests outside of their jobs? as soon as i turned eighteen i was supposed to magically quit liking dark, edgy shit? whoops, guess i rly fucked up on that front! /s. i've gotten more shit over both sets of unpopular opinions for the secret fandom than i've ever gotten for any other fandom i've ever been in. and i've always shipped the less popular/more controversial pairings. so that's been.............. a lot. but it's fine :,,,)

[castlebyersafterdark]

I mean, from what I gather and not knowing the play details toooo much, maybe that's true and it's similar to Mileven.

i've seen the play and patty and henry are nothing like mileven. patty and henry have genuine romantic feelings for each other and were very cute in the play acting all shy during their first kiss. henry tried to protect patty from brenner like his life depended on her and mike wanted to send eleven to pennhurst when he found her lmao

if any of the couples in the play are like mileven it's mikes parents, literally the fakest relationship i've ever seen. it gets pointed out in the play that karen thinks ted is stupid

Very interesting!! That's what I gathered from what I read before but seeing actors actually portraying something is a lot different than reading about it. I'll see what I think when mine own eyes watch (I'm not exactly pressed about spoilers btw since when the play initially come out I read a bunch of stuff, I just haven't entertained analyzing it because it's all secondary account at this point and I'd rather not conjecture without personal experience because everything is a personal interpretation of course without source material comparison!! Just me!)

Regardless, Henry in the tv show is definitely queer-coded in my opinion and the fact that he's paralleled to Will is enough for me to run with it all.

[frogsandfries]

Apparently, at least creatively, I had a way more productive day than I thought. I'm not breaking down my story chapter to chapter with the source material; I'm kind of just letting each chapter vibe, as long as it's ideally about a thousand words (like seven hundred will be fine, or seven thousand).

I got those pages archived into my digital notebook on my tablet for later rework.

I wish there was a cafe nearby that I could walk to...... I keep saying this. There is, in my opinion, a distinct lack of coffee in most places that are not Oregon (I didn't spend much time in WA, maybe a handful of hours). Like, the two major cities in Wisconsin, Madison and Milwaukee, are the coffee hubs, but still relatively barren. I mean, look, okay, my time in New Mexico was hardly spent indulging in the local coffee scene. I believe there was one purely local place, and then a bunch of like, diners that would show up because they had coffee on the menu, but mostly major chains. Like the green one 🙄😮‍💨

But at least I could leave my home at my leisure. Walk or take a bus, depending on how I felt. Bring my tablet or sketchbook or whatever, and go hang out somewhere that I didn't live.

And worse, right now, I can hardly breathe the cold air without falling into fits of gagging. So even going up the street to the library is out of the question. And my sister went out last night and tonight, like fucking good for her I guess. This place is going to fall apart while I'm out of state.

Speaking of being out of state, on the one hand, I don't know why I'm bitching. I'm getting on a plane and going to NM. I'm going for business, but hey, it'll be a chance to be out of the house, a chance to see my home again. I'm going to be the built in house sitter next year if my sister gets deployed. And then..........who knows..... Not to mention, moving is hard enough. Moving from one state to another is.......not really something I want to do again right away...... Even if Wisconsin does make me literally physically sick.

I kind of wish there was a way I could stay in NM for a few days or weeks, here and there. But air travel alone is like three or four hundred bucks, and then there's the stress and hassle of actually traveling. A cheap shitty room could be less than a hundred bucks a night, but at what cost? And I still have to eat while I'm there. Hhhhhhhhh too much. Too complicated. Too messy.

But........idk, a thousand bucks every six months, to go home for a few days? It could buy me a lot more time here, if need be.

Anyway, I can definitely think about and discuss my job issues later. I just miss my freedom, y'know? For a while there, I had all the freedom I wanted. I had more freedom than I've ever had in my entire life. And now I feel like I have the least freedom I've ever had in my life.

But the thought of completely packing up everything--🤢 nope, uh-uh, nope no.

I'm just being edgy because I'm sick and cooped up and frustrated. I'm seriously in a bad mood this week. Like, a really nasty fucking mood. I'm sick of taking care of the dogs, I'm sick of feeling like I'm doing everything around the house. I'm sick of being stuck in the house and if I want to like, go out and have lunch or chill at a shitty coffee shop, I'm not paying for it myself and my sister doesn't want to sit on the other side of the table staring at me working on whatever project. I'm sick of constantly needing a nap. It's pissing me off that there's next to nothing in the house to eat. I can't make bread, it causes me pain. I can't make pizza. Making the dough causes me pain. I could hardly make biscuits, which you're not supposed to knead very much.

And now I absolutely have to take a plane and I'm going to spend the longest number of nights ever away from my cats. And not just nights, days.

I want some fucking red meat. I want a fucking steak. I want something to gnaw on, but in a pleasurable, rewarding way. I'm so fucking sick of chicken and fucking legumes and spinach. How can anyone live this fucking way.

When I get back, some of the things I had to replace after losing my wallet should be in. I'm going to buy a fucking steak. Fuck everything. Steak and cold smoked salmon. I'm gonna make a motherfucking Ketchikan pizza.