#i like to discuss characters and their arcs

[phaeton-flier]

Vimes is the viewpoint character for most of the Guards books, with a few parts of some following other characters. Sybil Ramkin is a secondary character, but then so are other well fleshed out characters like Carrot or Angua. She's the biggest influence in his life, after Ventinari, and takes important roles in many of the plots.

I think the only bad thing you can say about her is that never has a character arc, the way Vimes or Angua or many of the other characters might, but then neither does Carrot or Vetinari, and they are well-beloved characters.

Vimes gets referenced more often because he is both a cop (and so gets picked up for any fantasy-police-violence discussions) and because he's the character appearing in the most books (this became a problem as the series went on—any plot taking place in Ankh-Morpork would logically have the Watch coming in to deal with all the Plot going on, meaning Pratchett had to get creative with characters to write a story that wasn't about the Watch)

I read the series in release order and found it fine, but many people suggest various reading orders and you can start with Guards, Guards! where both she and Vimes first appear.

I've started reading Discworld this year

[mareastrorum]

Been chewing more on how C3 wound up here. What’s throwing me is the strange shift from the cast’s unflinching “yes, and” game in C2 to a misplaced feeling that they need to choose correctly in C3.

I want to be clear here that this isn’t a criticism post because I genuinely don’t know what’s happening here. It’s just odd behaviors that seem to signal a problem, and I don’t know what solution would resolve it. I’m not going to be so presumptuous as to hypothesize about any cast member’s thoughts.

In the Cooldown for C3E118 (and offhandedly previously), Laura and Ashley expressed some nervousness about making big decisions because they’re worried about making the “wrong” choice. Without more, that attitude alone would explain much of the party’s indecisiveness about key campaign questions. After all, their characters are the two Ruidusborn of most interest to the campaign villains, and other characters (especially Orym, Laudna, and Ashton) have insisted that Imogen and Fearne take the lead on Predathos.

But this isn’t a story in a vacuum. C2 got completely derailed multiple times. The Mighty Nein decided to steal a pirate ship and leave the continent the campaign was set on; shortly after they returned, they decided to reopen a collapsed tunnel to go the opposite side of the continent; then Caleb returned the Luxon Beacon and made themselves heroes of an enemy nation instantly. That’s not even getting into the fact that Molly died before the Nein got to Shadycreek Run (which absolutely would have been all about his backstory) or that Twiggy left an incredible magical artifact that wasn’t supposed to be given to the Nein. Each time, Matt adjusted and made it work. Granted, C2 was more of a sandbox campaign, but Matt demonstrated his flexibility as a DM time and again.

Like, as a general rule of thumb, DMs shouldn’t offer options that would torpedo the campaign. It’s rational to avoid situations that have a genuine possibility of undercutting the game. Matt has been DMing for a long time; he’s done a very good job of finding ways to make the campaign work regardless of the decisions the players make. Even when players do something directly against the signals he threw out (like Ashton trying to absorb a second shard despite consistent, dire warnings that it would kill him), he works with the players to come to a reasonable solution (Ashton survived but the shard wouldn’t take, and he got some character moments out of the failure). We, the audience, know Matt is good at pivoting when he needs to.

In addition to taking the players’ curveballs like a champ, Matt also takes big swings for the sake of the story. In C1, Matt broke his biggest city with a dragon invasion, then made a new god leading an undead titan to go stomp out the world’s oldest civilization. In C2, he let the players go off the map whenever and still made the digression relevant to their character arcs every time. Not to be parasocial, but if we can figure out that that Matt can handle this sort of thing, the players certainly have a better feel for it than us.

So what is going on in C3? We know Matt isn’t scared of breaking Exandria or destroying the pantheon: he set that possibility in motion as the default ending if the players did nothing. CR literally did a mini series about the start of the end of the world with EXU Calamity. Laura and Ashley were also in Downfall and making big choices between the gods and mortals. Breaking stuff is what they do!

Where did this idea that there’s a “wrong” choice come from? That type of thinking kills a lot of great improv, and the whole point of the “yes, and” exercise is to shake it off. While it’s incredibly obvious to say not to think that way, the real issue is sorting out why that mentality has taken hold at all. That’s a problem no amount of fan discussion is going to resolve.

[thefirstknife]

I wasn't aware of the discussions around Eramis being that rancid, personally (although I tend not to look at online discussion around media in general, thanks to how skin-deep at best much of it tends to be).

But the way you've talked about it makes me wonder how much of the people complaining about Eramis's character development are coming at it from a dislike of the idea of that redemption being a thing at all- the perspective that Doing Bad Things makes someone A Bad Person who can no longer be A Good Person, essentially. Seems like that mentality has grown... if not more common, at least louder, over time.

(Although your comment about not seeing why they'd 'pull a shocking twist for the sake of pulling a shocking twist to spite the audience' is a little funny in a sad way, considering how many people seem to think "outwit the audience and surprise them" is more important than "tell a coherent story as well as possible", even changing things if a twist is leaked, even if whatever they change it to makes no damn sense.)

It's really bad out there and it's strange for the exact reason you listed, because the same communities have previously entertained redemption ideas about characters like Calus and even Clovis; characters who have never expressed any wish to change or any beliefs that they may be in the wrong, no regrets and no remorse for what they've done.

So I can't even figure out if this with Eramis is about not wanting redemption stories. I think it's more about Eramis herself; not only is she a female character, but she's very largely and easily misunderstood. A lot of people's interaction with Beyond Light was... not entirely invested (a lot of the community was at the time mad about vaulting and hated everything new on principle), and her other storylines are in seasonal content that's gone now and that was almost universally hated; she was brought back in Plunder and then reappeared briefly in Defiance. A lot of people approached her from the get-go as "just some villain we will kill in the campaign" and then that didn't happen and these people were confused because they never paid any attention to her story. And then by the end of it, it just kinda slipped them by.

I don't know honestly. I may be overthinking it, but I definitely think that a lack of understanding of her story plays a huge role. Whether that's because they missed her story or just didn't pay attention to it or just had no interest in it - and nobody online they interact with offered any insight into her character (lore youtube) - they just don't get what's the fuss and they don't care about her. Some might say this is because the game didn't make people want to care, but I simply disagree. While I enjoy Eliksni stories, they're by far not at the top of my list of favourite things in Destiny so I don't have any special attachment to Eliksni characters, I didn't know Eramis before BL and I was never a diehard fan of her, but I understood her story and what they wanted to do with her for the past 4 years.

And I was happy that she got her character arc completed as was intended. I saw where it was going and this solution is the only one that made sense to me. So I don't think the whole "the game didn't make me care enough because it was badly set up" really holds water. The game can't put thoughts into your brain, sometimes you have to actually think about characters for yourself. Like, we shouldn't have to be spoon-fed that hard. Her arc and the setup was clear and it was written into the game's story, a lot of it even outside of lore books ("It was just in the lore books!" is a major complaint a lot of the time, and one I personally find baffling. You're in the Lore Books The Game. If you don't like lore being in lore books, you're in the wrong place).

We could honestly discuss this to no end, and everyone who dislikes Eramis or the conclusion to her story would probably have a different reason for it, or there would at least be a couple of them, not wanting redemption included. Could also be a combination - not understanding her story will lead a lot of people to think that her being redeemed makes no sense and that it wasn't supposed to happen.

I think it's also a case of people having a really hard time understanding that a character can be our ally while still hating our guts. I've seen plenty of comments from people saying they're annoyed about Eramis constantly being antagonistic towards us. This is baffling to me, because again, it makes sense that she doesn't like us. And it would be bizarre if all Eliksni were now suddenly fans of humanity like a hivemind. Some will never like us. This is good. They will still help us because there's bigger fish to fry, but they don't have to like us.

Eramis was a delight this episode to me and she was a really interesting character. She wasn't a huge deal overall and some of her story was fairly on the sidelines, but she was a very unique "villain" and antagonist to us since she was introduced and I think that her character arc was very well done all things considered. This amount of resistance and dislike for her from the wider community is something I simply can't see as anything other than a lack of understanding of the story (personal reasons and stuff like "I get it, I just don't really care that much" not included).

[kirameitetegomen-mp3]

--reuploading this here because I panicked when I remade my tumblr accounts and was worried this was lost under an inaccessible read more (I had it saved in a google doc thank god)

Natori Shuuichi Character Analysis

Natori Shuuichi is one of the main supporting characters in Natsume Yuujinchou and probably the character who’s been the most polarizing in the fandom . As tends to happen with more polarizing characters, there’s been a lot of misconceptions and simplifications of his character. He’s the supporting character we have the most background info on and, like all the characters, is very complicated and fleshed out. His character arc and his dynamic with Natsume have gone through a lot of developments, from his cautionary tale type introduction to becoming one of Natsume’s most trusted friends. This essay will discuss his background and go into detail on many aspects of his character, as well as his dynamic with the protagonist.

General Background 

“Since I was little, I’ve been able to see things other people can’t. My grandfather and father became furious when I told them, and my mother looked sad. Our family apparently used to be exorcists, but the ability to ‘see’ died out. The family business folded. Ever since then, they’ve been afraid that one day the youkai will come for revenge. Then I was born, a new link to the youkai world. They started to think that I was the cause of the misfortunes that beset the family. Like my mother getting ill and dying and my grandfather becoming an invalid…”

Unlike Natsume, whose relatives didn’t know about the existence of youkai, Natori was born to a family of former exorcists. But instead of being grateful there was finally a new person in the family who could see, his family pinned the blame on him any time something bad happened to them, including the death of his own mother. He was seen as the source of tragedy in his family, and even told Hiiragi as a young child that if that were true, someone should have gotten rid of him before anything bad had happened. Because of what his relatives said, he believed as a young child that he was better off dead than alive.

In addition to this, a mysterious lizard-shaped youkai appeared on his skin one day when he was a child. This is what led him to begin studying all the exorcism resources in his family’s storehouse, but even into his early twenties has never found out what it is, other than realizing it never travels to his left leg. It’s revealed in special chapter 15/s5e8 that he feared it was some kind of curse and that it could hurt other people if they touched it.

Even aside from being hated for his youkai-seeing abilities, he was deemed worthless by his father who said he couldn’t do anything except scare the family to get attention. When he started prioritizing studying over eating, his father said if he had to skip dinner in order to get results, he was never good enough for anything in the first place.

It’s revealed late in the manga that his relatives stopped having children after him because they were scared of having another child who was like him. He desperately wanted a partner in his family to walk side by side with, but he saw through the disguise of his “younger cousin” and lost this as well. His aunt and uncle, his only relatives who didn’t resent him, left their estate, never to be seen.

Overall, his upbringing mainly involved being seen as a misfortune to others and too insufficient to amount to anything. By his teens, he had become avoidant of others, irritable and sensitive, very hard on himself, and developed an unstable sense of personal identity, with nothing in his life to tether himself to the world.

Joining the Exorcist Community

“I heard the rumors among youkai and exorcists. People still judged us harshly as a family, and this creepy, roving mark wasn’t helping. But at least when I was among people who could see them, I didn’t have to lie”.

Joining the exorcist community brought a mix of both positive and negative things into Natori’s life. 

On the positive end, it provided him with a source of stability he hadn’t had before, something he could anchor himself to. He found a purpose for himself, and a way to use his abilities to help others when before they had only been seen as something that brought harm. He could finally be around people who saw the same things he did.

On the negative end, he entered a community full of power hungry people who just wanted to use their abilities to gain power and status. The community held mindsets that youkai, and even humans, were tools to be acquired and used. Additionally, he quickly discovered that he was from a clan that was looked down upon and ridiculed by the rest of the community, and because of this, he isn’t treated well in the community.

At the beginning of his backstory chapter, we see he was very disconnected from others and the world around him. He was even disconnected from himself. His family avoided him at home and he avoided his peers at school. The thing he busied himself with most was spending time alone in the family storehouse, studying the exorcist resources left behind by his clan before they left the business. The exorcist community was the first source of stability and community he had in his life. It was a place where he could be away from his relatives who loathed him and where he could be surrounded by people with his sight. However, he immediately discovered upon going to his first exorcist meeting that even among people who could see, he was hated and scoffed at simply because of his family name. At home he was hated by his family because of his abilities, and at exorcist meetings he was hated by people who shared his abilities because of his family. They gossiped about him the same way his classmates gossiped about him at school. Despite this, he still felt content that he finally had found a purpose in his life, something to reach for and goals to achieve.

There were several main reasons driving him to pursue a career as an exorcist.

“If I keep going, I might find out how to get rid of this thing. Without it, I won’t have to feel so irritated. I might be able to be a nicer person. Even to my family…”

Finding a way to get rid of the lizard mark was a driving motivation that goes back all the way to his childhood. It’s what sparked his curiosity and determination to learn about youkai years before he even became an exorcist. 

The lizard is an unknown entity that lives and crawls around on his body -> this causes him to be constantly anxious because he doesn’t know what it is or if it’s hurting him and/or others and probably feels violated by it as well -> because he’s scared and anxious and uncomfortable all the time he’s always irritated -> because he’s always irritated he finds it difficult to be nice to people -> because he finds it difficult to be nice he avoids others and in general feels like he’s a bad person who hurts others. 

Therefore, when he goes back to the beginning of that sequence, he thinks the solution is to remove the lizard mark in order to become kind. His anxiety around the lizard mark is tied into his opinion of himself as someone who isn’t kind, and learning to become an exorcist becomes the apparent pathway to eventually be rid of his dilemma. 

“But maybe if I was able to exorcise this youkai, Mr. Takuma will accept me as one of them? Will I be able to prove myself to the other exorcists?”

Another is his longing for acceptance and belonging. He needs to be loved and needed by others, as this is something he never received in his childhood. He unfortunately doesn’t receive a lot of this upon entering the exorcist community. Even so, this doesn’t discourage him. He accepts that he needs to be patient and bide his time. If he can become strong enough, then he can become useful. He can “become somebody that somebody needs”. If he can defeat the youkai attacking exorcists, maybe Takuma will accept him as one. He thinks in order to be accepted by others, he needs to be of use to them, he needs to prove himself to others. He’s never been accepted just as he is, so he needs to make himself as strong and productive as possible so he can provide something for others, because he doesn’t think he’s worth anything by himself. 

“Dad… You’re worried about revenge because you used to be an exorcist. But what if… you helped people?”

The other big thing that drove him to become an exorcist is his general desire to help and protect others. Part of this is genuine altruism, but considering he grew up being told his presence was dangerous to others, it makes sense that he feels responsibility for keeping people safe. His abilities were always seen as a curse, but what if he could turn his abilities into a blessing? 

Sadly, the exorcism community doesn’t always contain the noble intentions and selfless desire to protect others and the accepting and understanding community that Natori had probably hoped for. It’s full of competition and sabotage between people who want to become famous and powerful and exorcise youkai at random just to test their powers and will even curse their colleagues just out of envy. This clashed with Natori’s ideals and goals, as he was more concerned with getting stronger in order to help people and become useful than he was with acquiring power and status for his own gain and reputation. He wanted to find a way to become kind, but entered a community full of unkind and petty people who try to undermine others. He wanted to be amongst people he wouldn’t have to lie to, but he ended up having to become an even better liar. Despite the positives it brought to his life it was also detrimental to enter a society like that at a time he was most vulnerable and unsure of himself and his identity.

Meeting Matoba and Takuma

“I’m not as good as the others, but I can see youkai better through glass. You know, It may be conceit, but I like to do what I can to protect people”. -Takuma

“You can’t protect anything if you’re not powerful, Shuuichi” -Matoba

Matoba and Takuma were the first two exorcists Natori met personally, and they appeared as two very different potential roles in his life, and represented different sets of ideals.

Takuma appears to Natori as a potential mentor or father figure. He is warm and kind to him and tells him he’s a nice kid, as opposed to how he’s been treated and seen by adults up until now. Takuma isn’t as strong as other exorcists, but he wants to do all he can to protect people and rid them of the fear and uncertainty they feel from youkai. This is what Natori also wants to achieve as an exorcist. He immediately latches onto Takuma’s kindness and desire to help people. However, even if Takuma is kind and cares for him, he keeps him at a distance and it doesn’t seem he ever became a true reliable mentor to him. This comes from a reasonable desire for Natori to stay out of trouble. He continuously tells him he needs to not come to exorcist meetings or take jobs, as it isn’t something for children to be involved in. While this may be true, Natori wasn’t going to back out of the exorcist community no matter how many times Takuma told him to. What he needed wasn’t for someone to tell him to stay away from danger when he wasn’t going to do that, he needed someone to look after him and guide him and teach him and to provide support in general. Additionally, Natori didn’t have anything else. His family was abusive and neglectful and he was uncomfortable and alone during school. He needed a community where he felt he could be himself and where he could have some kind of connection and be productive. Natori also doesn’t interpret Takuma’s pushing away as simply attempts to convince him to stay out of danger, but as a rejection because he isn’t strong enough. Throughout his first backstory, he thinks he needs to make himself stronger and more powerful. If he can do that, he’ll prove to Takuma that he belongs in the community, that he’s worthy of being an exorcist. 

Matoba is the first (and possibly only) peer close to his age Natori met who could see youkai. This would hopefully be a good thing, but the first thing he tells Natori is that he’s looking for allies he can “use”. This is the opposite of what Natori wants. He wants to be useful to others, but not used. Matoba is his first introduction to the kind of mindsets the exorcist community holds. The Matoba clan has maintained power since they started the community. When other weaker clans had fallen, they simply resigned to being absorbed into the head clan for protection. Natori’s clan is the one that refused to join and ended up leaving. Matoba wants to team up, but Natori immediately reads him as condescending and judgmental. From what we’ve learned about him and his clan, Matoba was raised to become the head of a powerful clan since he was young. It’s clearly seen in the way he talks and acts that he was taught his clan is at the top and the other clans are weak and foolish and stubborn. He’s been taught that you should use anyone and anything at your disposal who is useful. This worries Natori, who grew up being labeled as lazy and worthless. He has a very low view of himself and is desperate to prove that he is useful. But he doesn’t want to be useful as someone’s ally, he wants to be useful as an individual. This reflects the history of his clan’s history. The Natori clan wouldn’t work with the others and refused help to the very end, eventually giving up and leaving. We don’t know all of the details, but it’s likely this was out of pride as a very powerful clan. Like his ancestors, Natori also is resistant to Matoba’s help. However, this isn’t out of pride or thinking he’s too good for help, it’s because he thinks very poorly of himself and believes if he has to team up with someone stronger than him, then he isn’t good enough. He helps Matoba defeat the youkai they were hunting, but denies credit, giving it all to Matoba. Despite making a decent effort for his lack of experience, he thinks he failed completely. He wasn’t good enough to defeat it by himself, which means he failed. 

While it’s understandable that Natori felt uncomfortable around Matoba and avoided him, it isn’t fair to say Matoba was completely responsible for them not getting along, or that his only intentions were to make use of him and use him as an ally, or that he looked down on Natori. Matoba likes Natori, and he wants Natori to like him. He has a curious and enthusiastic nature, and takes genuine interest in others. Even if Natori is weaker than him, Matoba has respect for him and tries to provide helpful tips and compliments. He tells him things that could be helpful and compliments him when he succeeds at something (or at least makes an honest effort to). But unfortunately, despite his compliments being genuine, Matoba easily comes off as judgmental and superior and Natori is very sensitive to this. When someone your age or younger is obviously more experienced and stronger and talented than you are, when they try to be of help or compliment things that are much easier to them than they are to you, they are obviously reminding you of your weakness and inferiority and that you are too far behind to ever catch up. This is how Natori thinks, and it makes him very uncomfortable around Matoba. If he accepts his help, he accepts he isn’t strong enough to figure things out for himself. He can’t become his own person and follow his desired path if he gets stuck under someone with a clear and paved path.

More on Natori and Matoba’s Dilemma

Matoba and Natori’s situations are reversed in many ways. 

Matoba is from the head exorcist clan which has held power since the community started, and has been raised to be its leader. He would’ve grown up being praised and encouraged for his spiritual abilities. By his teens, he’s already grown into the role expected of him perfectly: he’s intelligent, cunning, ambitious, confidently seeks allies, has top-class spiritual abilities, and already knows the ins and outs of the industry. Natori is from a fallen exorcist clan. He grew up being loathed and ostracized and mistreated by his family members because of his abilities. He is intelligent, ambitious, and powerful despite his family’s expectations and views of him. Matoba has massive expectations and burdens from his family that he’s had to grow up with. Natori has no expectations on him or burdens to carry. Matoba has a narrow role assigned to him by others that he has to fit into, Natori has had to assign a role onto himself. 

Because Matoba has been given a clear and set path to follow with an entire clan backing him and guiding him, he is strong and unwavering, he knows who he is supposed to be and knows how to exist as that person. But because of this, his freedom is limited and he has very little space or opportunity to explore any options outside of what’s been given. He wasn’t given the choice on who he wants to be because it was already chosen for him. Because Natori was essentially discarded and cut off from his family at a young age (at least emotionally), he has never had a clear path ahead of him to follow and has had no one to back him up. He is shaky and uncertain about everything. He knows what kind of person he wants to be, but is unable to clearly see the kind of person he already is. However, the lack of expectations on him means he has the freedom to explore his options and think on what path he wants to create for himself, since there was never one given to him. 

They have natural gaps between each other that aren’t terribly big, but can never be crossed. Natori and Matoba are both powerful, but Natori will never see the beautiful chrysanthemums on the kimono. The two are close in age, but Natori will always be a year older than Matoba.

Despite their differences, they have more in common than Natori would like to accept. They are both very lonely, and they both crave closeness even if they deny it or put on fake ulterior motives.

Natori is lonely because he was isolated as something scary and unwanted, and his family kept him at a distance out of disgust and hatred. Matoba is lonely because he was isolated as a powerful asset for his clan, and may have been seen and raised as the future clan leader more than as just a normal human child.

In-between

We don’t know a lot about Natori between our two glimpses of him as a teenager and when we first meet him as an adult in the series. What we do know is that he had achieved his goal of becoming a powerful exorcist, acquired two servants (we still don’t know the story behind Sasago), and somewhere along the line became a charming up-and-coming movie star. His personality had also developed both for better and worse, you could argue. On one hand he had become a charming and more friendly person to be around, as opposed to his withdrawn and irritable teenage self. On the other hand, he had grown a lot more cold and cynical, and seemed to pick up a lot of behaviors and mindsets from the exorcist community (belief that youkai are either dangerous or they exist to be used as tools, manipulative behaviors, it’s better to take care of youkai before they pose a risk to humans, etc). 

Natori’s strengths: He is a charming and friendly person who’s kind and polite to his fans and coworkers. Even if he could be acting this way for appearances, he’s still learned to put aside his natural irritability and distrust of people in order to treat people he encounters politely (as opposed to the irritable and brusque way he interacted with his peers before). He is quick to recognize his mistakes and apologize for them, able to admit when he’s in the wrong (such as apologizing for the way he involved Natsume in his exorcism business). He is very concerned for others and it is his goal to help and protect others. He is determined and persevering and wants to search for his path in life.

Natori’s flaws: He has picked up deceptive and manipulative traits in order to thrive in his work community (such as omitting information or doing things in secret, acting charming to get what he wants or asking harsh questions to try and get Natsume to change his views). He is overprotective, and tends to use deceptive behavior in order to go about trying to keep people (Natsume in particular) safe. He is cold and cynical early on, often speaking harshly to Natsume when it comes to their disagreements about youkai (calling him naive and hypocritical, telling him he shouldn’t be soft to them, saying he needs to choose between youkai and humans).

Meeting Natsume

“I’m sorry, Natsume. I didn’t want to get you involved like this. You remind me of how I used to be. I just wanted to talk. I thought there were things I could tell you.”

After spending years being influenced and exposed to the exorcist community, Natori’s life was altered again after meeting our protagonist, Natsume. Exorcists exist at one end of a spectrum of youkai-seers: sympathizing with youkai is foolish and dangerous, youkai should be used as tools, you can’t protect people if you’re too soft; and Natsume is at the other end: being very sympathetic towards youkai, believing youkai are complex and have feelings and should be respected, you shouldn’t hurt them. 

Natori had many expectations in place when he first met Natsume: he was a young child who needed to be protected, he knew the same suffering and therefore must have responded accordingly (aka the same way Natori did), he’s very powerful and would prove to be a powerful assistant and exorcist, he needed someone older who could see the same things as him as a guide and mentor. What he got instead was a very headstrong kid who had become very sympathetic towards youkai, even to the point of being very against hurting them even in the case of urgent self defense. Natsume showed zero interest in helping with exorcism and continuously resisted Natori’s efforts to persuade him otherwise. 

Natori backed off on recruiting him for exorcism after seeing his reckless behavior, but still saw him as someone who needed to be guided and protected, and he still remained concerned at Natsume’s sympathy for youkai. 

Natsume and Youkai

“Don’t be naive. You have to have zero tolerance when they attack humans. [...] You see them, don’t you? Surely you of all people understand, after the suffering they’ve put you through. [...] You need to stay detached… or you’ll regret it someday.”

“It’s too late to be sorry after there’s an incident. You’re being a hypocrite. What if they lived near your beloved Fujiwaras? Would you still say it’s no big deal? [...] It’s about time you decided which is more important to you – humans or youkai.”

Natori has been in a community that only sees youkai as tools to be used, or dangerous creatures to get rid of. It’s a shock to him when Natsume yells at him for attacking a youkai in self defense, and later on when he jumps into a dangerous spell circle to protect one. Natsume shows as strong sympathy for youkai as he does for humans, something that Natori has never seen before. Youkai cause suffering to humans, especially humans who can see. Natsume has suffered because of youkai like Natori has, but yet he still cares for them as if they’re people. Natori early in the series sees Natsume as naive and foolish for this. He’ll regret getting emotionally attached to them, he’ll regret it if he doesn’t hurt a youkai who is dangerous. Natori has absorbed what the community taught him, what Matoba taught him. He needs to help Natsume realize how dangerous his mindset is. He chides Natsume for his softness, and he speaks very harshly and coldly to him during the situation with Kai. He ends up telling him he must make a choice between humans and youkai. If he really cares about humans, he should stop caring about youkai. But Natsume refuses to choose. He cares about both equally. Natori realizes he was too harsh and apologizes. 

He keeps his concern and caution, but he gradually begins to accept Natsume’s nature and his insistence at being connected to both worlds. 

Natsume and the Exorcist Community

“I’m sorry, Natsume… I brought you here so you’d see you weren’t alone. But maybe someone with your power shouldn’t make yourself known to others.”

“Now I’m sorry that I got you involved in this business in the first place… back then, I think I wanted to enlist you as an ally. Someone who could help me. That wasn’t fair to you. But now, I’m just happy to help you.”

It’s strange to me that the fandom often hated Natori for trying to involve Natsume in exorcism. It was very early on that he strongly regretted this, and he has spent most of the series trying to keep Natsume away from exorcists. The only two times he directly got Natsume involved in exorcism was when they first met (being very pushy about involving him even though Natsume was disinterested) and when he took him to the assembly (which Natsume actually did want to go to and help with). I don’t count the hot springs trip as he hadn’t expected it to turn into a big situation or intended to directly have Natsume help him. Every other time he’s either asked Natsume to leave (with Natsume choosing to stay or being unable to leave for some reason) or he’s let him tag along because he knew it would be safer than Natsume getting involved by himself. 

Keeping Natsume away from the exorcist business has been one of Natori’s primary motivations for most of the series. He knows it was wrong to involve him in such a dangerous world, and that Natsume should be able to grow up and try to live a normal life. This is what he wants for him. 

Natori especially grows concerned once Natsume gets involved with the Matoba clan, and he tries to interfere with them getting involved. The first time happened during the Kai arc. He specifically took the job from the Matoba clan to keep them away from where Natsume lives. He’s even unusually cold and harsh towards Natsume to try and dissuade him from being even remotely involved in the situation.

But then Natsume does get directly involved with Matoba very soon after this. It is especially the incident with Matoba’s letter that causes Natori to involve himself secretly. He finds out Natsume received a letter from Matoba, and decides to monitor the situation from a distance, using a paper doll to interfere when needed. He ultimately destroys the letter without Natsume’s knowledge. This is where we first see Natori’s desperate attempts to interfere in hopes of keeping Natsume safe. This then leads to the situation with the Book of Friends next time he shows up.

The Book of Friends

“Urihime. Natsume is carrying something that’s important to him. Find out what it is. Ginro made it sound like it’s something dangerous… that exorcists shouldn’t know about. Natsume is too nice and reckless. I wonder if it’s something he shouldn’t even have.”

“Such a dangerous thing… should be thrown into a fire.”

The situation with the Book of Friends is the other thing Natori has received a lot of hate for from the fandom. It was interpreted simply as a betrayal of trust and an action he took because he thought Natsume was too naive and innocent to be in possession of such an object. But was anyone considering the situation from Natori’s point of view?

Natori is an adult. Natsume is a child. Natsume is in possession of a dangerous forbidden object that attracts the attention of youkai, some of whom are hostile, and would attract the attention of most exorcists if they were to know about it. Natori is part of the community that both forbid the object, but which also contains many people who’d probably want it for themselves. Natori is understandably very protective of Natsume, and finding out about the Book of Friends was very troubling. It explains why he’s so involved with youkai, and it is a situation that puts him in danger quite often. 

Natori knew Natsume was hiding something after overhearing Ginro talk about the Book. And then later he saw how Natsume reacted to the matter of forbidden contracts. This gave him a pretty good idea as to what Natsume was secretly carrying. Natori knew he had to do something, even if it meant trying to find out about it behind Natsume’s back. In Natori’s mind and experience, it’s better to be deceptive and secretive than to wait until someone gets hurt.

Natori frankly is the only human who can protect Natsume from both youkai and the exorcist community. He also should take some responsibility for his safety, as he is an adult figure and also was the one who first dragged Natsume into the world of exorcism. 

It was arguably “wrong” to search for information on Natsume’s secret, but it also would be bad to just completely ignore his younger friend being in danger. It makes sense he felt it was very important to try and learn more about it.

Natori and Natsume

“Will you help me with my other job? Hmm… You’re speechless. I’m sorry. This must seem pretty sudden. I was just feeling happy. Do you get it now? You’re not alone. You and I are alike.”

“Natsume. Thank you. It made me happy… that you trusted me. For real. I want to be your friend. I want to help you. With all my heart. So… I… want you to keep this safe. I don’t think I could trust myself as much as you trusted me.”

Natori and Natsume’s relationship started off rough, but it’s probably gone through the most changes and growth out of all of the relationships in this series. In the beginning, Natori is harsh and cynical. He sees Natsume as being too naive and soft, and believes he needs to adopt Natori’s own ideas: that youkai are mostly bad and dangerous, and it’s best to take care of the particularly dangerous ones before they hurt people. He thinks if Natsume keeps his soft idealism, he’ll be in bad situations and have to regret it one day. 

But Natori continuously watches how kind and wonderful Natsume is, and he grows to deeply admire him for this. He still worries a lot about his safety and is skeptical of his relationship to youkai, but he’s nevertheless supportive, and would do anything to help him out. He quickly regrets how he got Natsume involved in a dangerous world, and is fiercely protective of him. Natsume grows very fond of Natori, and considers him a dear friend. 

In the beginning, Natori sees Natsume as someone who needs to be guided and changed and molded to fit his own ideas, but he gradually comes to see Natsume as a strong and kind person, and wants to be his equal and his friend. He also admires Natsume’s perseverance in staying connected to other people, something Natori gave up on. Natsume almost gave this all up after seeing Tanuma was hurt, and Natori is the one who told him he needs to hang on to these connections.

Despite how shaky their relationship started off, Natori has become a very kind and supportive friend who cares for Natsume deeply and is willing to help him no matter what. He has grown to respect him even though he didn’t understand him at first, and even admires him for his differences. Their friendship has become solid and reliable, and they have both started learning to be able to lean on each other for support.

Growth Between Natori and Matoba

“You’re quite right. But I like it my way. The Matoba clan has their ways… and I’m looking for my own way… the ideal I want to strive for. That’s my goal, even if I’m fighting in the dark.”

“I won’t pretend to know what it’s like… to bear the burden of the legacy you’ve had to shoulder. But I think… that these days, a person doesn’t have to bear it alone.”

Natori has shown a lot of growth in his recent interactions with Matoba.

Back when they fought a youkai together as teenagers, Natori thought he had failed. His spell barely worked, and Matoba was the one who killed the thing. When Matoba congratulated him for his help, Natori denied being of any use, saying Matoba was the one who took care of it. He couldn’t take care of things himself like he wanted, so he took that as a complete failure and denied any credit.

After getting locked in a room together as adults, Matoba once again thanks Natori for his help. Natori doesn’t deny it this time, and instead thanks Matoba for his help as well. He proceeds to tell him he thinks nowadays people don’t have to bear their burdens alone. This shows a lot of growth, compared to when he thought he failed for not being able to take care of a dangerous youkai by himself. Now he happily cooperates with people, both offering and accepting help. 

His interactions with Matoba as of late have also shown how patient he’s become. In the past, he responded to Matoba with frustration and irritability at anything that rubbed him the wrong way, even shoving him once. But then when Matoba chides him for having weak servants when they’re locked in the room, instead of getting angry, Natori calmly tells him he’s happy with how things are, and he’s still working on searching for the path he wants to follow. 

He’s still lost and unsure of things, but he’s accepted that he’s still working on himself, instead of wallowing in self-pity and feeling like a failure.

In the past, the two of them seemed to dance around each other, avoiding help and brushing off concern. Natori wanted to be far apart from him, while Matoba wanted a partner. Natori wanted to be of help, while Matoba brushed off the concern with a smile. In recent chapters, they have been working together efficiently, accepting and offering help. 

Natori is getting better at no longer stubbornly refusing help from others, and can accept that it’s better if people work on things together. 

Identity Issues

“I suppose there’s nothing riding on my shoulders. I wonder if… that’s why the world seems so unstable.”

Natori has an unstable sense of self. He’s unable to see himself clearly, struggling to see his virtues and strengths, being unsure of his personal values, and is very disconnected from both himself and others. 

He could also be interpreted as having alexithymia (inability to recognize or understand emotions in oneself, and also ties in to struggling to understand the emotions of others). He doesn't understand why he feels the way he does, and his emotions seem to have more of a physical reaction (saying he "feels sick") than being actually processed well. He seems to have a hard time understanding others' points of view and emotional responses as well.

Despite the identity disturbance, he does acquire strong goals. To become a powerful exorcist who doesn’t waver, and to be a kinder person who doesn’t hurt others. This is why discovering the exorcist community was such a pivotal moment in his life. He went from being driftless and detached to finding a strong purpose in life.

Natori faces a dilemma: he’s stubborn and doesn’t want to be shaped by someone else, but he also has a weak identity, leading him to be easily influenced by others. He wants to follow his own path, but still succumbs to some of the toxicity of the exorcist community. He describes his world as wavering. 

He doesn’t have any burdens like Matoba has. He has nothing tethering him to the world, and therefore he doesn’t know who he is, or who he’s supposed to be. He feels lost and disconnected. This is perhaps why the exorcist community is so enticing. It finally gives him a purpose in life, a goal to strive for. He now knows what he wants to be. But he still remains lost after this, and still struggles to figure out his path in life. 

However, in later chapters he seems to accept that he’s still searching for the path he wants to follow, and he’s determined to keep looking for it even if he makes mistakes along the way. He still struggles with his personal identity and his purpose in life, but he’s grown from his unsteadiness and fear he used to feel.

Deceptive Nature

“I’ve gotten too used to tricking people. You were having so much fun. I should have explained it to you. I’m sorry, Natsume. I’m really sorry.”

While he’s quick to admit he struggles with it, deceptive behavior is probably Natori’s most prominent and persistent flaw that still hasn’t completely gone away. He has a tendency to omit details, find out information in secret, or simply lie about things. This is also one of Natsume’s flaws, although they have some similar and different reasons for lying. 

Natsume’s reasons are generally for keeping his abilities and youkai a secret from others, which requires lying frequently. This is naturally something Natori also has to do. He and Natori both will come up with lies or stories in order to gather information. Natori will often find out information about people in secret, such as when he tried finding out about the Book of Friends behind Natsume’s back. He isn’t explicitly lying to Natsume, but he is being deceptive by intentionally gathering information about something important to Natsume without his knowledge. 

Something that Natori does that Natsume doesn’t is lying to get his own way. This mainly happened when he lied to Natsume about the situation with the hot springs, telling him he won the tickets in a contest and omitted the fact that he was actually going for an exorcism job. He also uses charm and wit to try and hide his true intentions at times. 

Natori, like Natsume, has had to learn to lie in order to survive in a society that won’t believe what he’s gone through. However, even though he found a community that sees what he can, he has to become a worse liar to survive there as well. It’s ironic, as Natori believed it would be a community where he wouldn’t have to lie. But sadly the exorcist community is full of back-stabbing and trickery, and Natori’s had to pick up these skills himself. 

Fortunately, he is well aware he’s struggled with these things and is working on unlearning them. He has been becoming a more sincere person for Natsume, and they’re both getting better at not hiding important things from each other anymore.

Relationship to People

“I’m not looking down on anyone. It’s just that… when your perceptions are different, conversations don’t mesh. And it makes me feel uncomfortable.”

Natori is asocial, and strongly avoids being close to other people. He doesn't seem to mind being around other people, but personal interactions are kept at a minimum. It seems he avoids actually mingling with any of his coworkers from either job, despite being friendly and charming to them. He lives alone and lacks close friends, only having professional or casual relationships. 

Natsume becomes the one exception. But the reason this happened is that Natsume was easy and safe. He’s young (young being something adults equate with being impressionable), he has similar trauma as Natori, he can see youkai, and he isn’t part of the exorcist community. Additionally, Natori didn’t originally approach Natsume as a friend (despite wanting this), but as a potential mentor to him. Natori presented himself as someone who could teach Natsume a lot about youkai, and how to protect himself and others. So Natori at first sees him as someone he can shape and guide. 

There are natural boundaries between Natsume and Natori that keep them at a safe distance. They are almost a decade apart in age, they live in different towns, Natsume is a student, Natori is an adult with two jobs. Natsume is someone he can be familiar with and fond of, while still maintaining a safe distance. Being friends with people his own age would have higher risk of them trying to form a closer, more emotionally intimate connection with less excuses to escape. Natsume is someone further in age he lives away from and only has a chance to see on occasion. He doesn’t risk having constant inescapable contact. Ironically, it’s because of all these boundaries that Natsume is easier to approach and form a bond with. 

Matoba is a different story. He’s a similar age, has an almost opposite background, wants to be the one to shape and guide Natori, and lives nearby and is part of the same community. He is also more skilled and experienced. This is troublesome for Natori. He doesn’t want to be close to him, and actively chooses to be apart from him. He doesn’t want to be shaped by someone else, the way he wanted to shape Natsume when they first met. The idea of being close to someone his own age who’s both so different and yet also similar is a terrifying prospect to him, so he stays away from Matoba. 

Natori faces a dilemma where he can't be close to people without sight, because he's too uncomfortable being with others who can't see the same world as him, but he also can't be with others like him due to his family being resented by his community. This again is why Natsume is the one safe person he feels kinship with. Someone who can see his world clearly, but who isn't a part of the community that looks down on him.

Natori is scared of being hurt and affected by others, but also scared of hurting others. So he waits until he finds the "perfect" person he thinks he can find a true kindred spirit in. But they still struggle to get along and Natori ends up being hurtful multiple times. This thankfully doesn't deter him, and instead he finally challenges himself to maintain and form a friendship despite the difficulties and despite making damaging mistakes. He remains determined and doesn't give up, and he always tries to make amends.

Famous Actor

Natori’s acting career ties into both his issues with his identity and his asociality. When you act, you get to wear someone else’s face. People see the character, not you. This works perfectly for Natori, and gives him the means of connecting with people without having to risk any intimacy or actual closeness. He receives love and attention and praise, but doesn’t have to lose anything by giving himself in return. He gets to be different faces on screen and be pretty and popular and beloved, but he can avoid having to get close to anyone. 

Again, Natori doesn’t mind being around people, it’s the actual closeness and conversations that make him uncomfortable. He’s happy to walk and talk with passing fans and receive congratulations from his movie coworkers, but he stays away from anything beyond that. He also is averse to being vulnerable. Acting is considered a vulnerable job, but the thing is, it's a safe vulnerability. The audience is watching the character, not you, even if you’re pouring yourself into the character.

Acting also provides a sort of temporary identity. You get to put a mask on and play out an imaginary scripted person. You can lean on your own experiences while being a completely different person. It's a safe and guarded way to explore human nature and personal identity. Perfect for someone who struggles to see themselves clearly.

Problems with the Fandom

“He’s always dragging Natsume into his exorcism business!”: I already went over this a lot. He got him involved a couple times and realized very early on this was wrong and apologized. He has spent most of the series trying to keep him from getting involved.

“He’s an asshole!”: He was mean several times and apologized each time. He’s mostly a kindhearted and gentle and supportive person.

“He’s a liar!”: So is Natsume.

“He wants to change Natsume and tries to push his views onto him!”: He did at first, but realized it was wrong and has come to deeply admire Natsume and respect his differences.

Conclusion

Natori is a very fleshed out and well-written character in Natsume Yuujinchou. He has a lot of flaws, but that just means he’s had even more positive growth as a character. He goes from being harsh and cynical to being a very kind and supportive friend to Natsume. His similarities and differences to Natsume make him an intriguing character in the series and his relationship with Natsume to me is one of the most interesting parts in the story. He’s sadly received a lot of hate and backlash from the fandom, mostly due to misinterpretations of his character. Thankfully it’s gotten a lot better, but I think it’s important in the fandom space to discuss these things in detail instead of misreading everything and jumping to conclusions. 

[needanaccount2readarcaneposts]

counterpoint: these relationships continue to perfectly serve as parallels to the conflict of the two cities, and i mean that in a derogatory way.

cait hits vi multiple times, abandons her to addiction and despair, and then speedruns an, "i'm sowwy," shallow 'redemption arc' by doing her one (1) favour and ignoring her carceral trauma, and it's all good and they kiss and make up and live happily ever after (in cait's 1%er mansion where vi drinks alone and sings to herself and cait holds all the power and withholds things from vi for her own good but it's fine! it's fine).

vi and jinx are at each other's throats until jinx feels sorry for vi and decides to help her out, and then they are forced to speedrun a reconciliation by a big scary monster that turned out to be the husk of an interesting character that existed in s1.

timebomb were once friends 🥺 but now they're enemies 😡 because of reasons we'll just brush under the rug this season 🤷‍♂️ and jinx has committed violence upon violence, inflicted loss upon loss upon ekko 👻, but you see ‼ ekko just has to see the Real Powder for who she is �� and he will forgive her 😭 because he understands they can build a better future together 🥰 and she will join forces with him 😻 and everyone will accept this 🤗 this will not involve them ever actually discussing any of their past hurts or problems or grievances onscreen.

jayce forgot that viktor was, like. dying of pollutionitis. viktor just needed to get over his personal problems and then he would have stopped wanting to change the system and would have just been chill.

see? perfect analogies for s2's handling of the relationship between piltover and zaun.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the problems in this season lies in the romantic relationships between the characters. I think it would have benefitted it more actually, if they had the time to explore said relationships.

What made season one of arcane so compelling is how these relationships (caitvi, vi and jinx, timebomb, jayvik etc.) are literal parallels to the plot: the conflict of the two cities.

[doodler16]

Sorry if this post feels a bit conjoined but it's a thought that's been on my mind for a minute.

Cw for abuse discussion.

Vivziepop has said before (not sure where specifically) that she's not afraid to kill off characters but what are those characters in question?

The only major character deaths in the hell verse I can think of is both Pen and adam. However the former gets reincarnated back to heaven and a ladder just dies despite being a human. It makes me wonder she says that because most of the characters are already dead in a sentence this is a story about the afterlife.

Then on the other side of the spectrum you get characters like stella, crimson, and valentino. A trio of characters who's entire character trait is to basically just be around to abuse their specific victims. This is despite the fact that many of the victimized characters have means to fight back or just straight up end their abusers life.

(more specifically stolas and the imps. I know Angel's under contract But if plot armor wasn't a factor I'd feel like he'd get Charlie's help.)

Honestly it makes me think back to the dire gentleman's video I watched again recently and it made me think

"why can't they simply take out their abusers, it's hell."

Tldr: where is the so-called fearlessness to kill characters and why isn't it done on the shitty abuser villains. You ain't Araki VP.

That’s the funny part. In Hazbin Hotel, Vivziepop has “killed” off Sir Pentious and Adam. In Helluva Boss, the writer Adam killed off Chaz. That’s literally it so far. I believe what Vivziepop means is she is not afraid to permanently kill off a character (I will see it when I believe it, at best a character gets mildly injured and that’s it).

My personal theory of why she hasn’t killed off the abusers because their “arcs” aren’t done and would be too easy. You mentioned Valentino, Stella, and Crimson. For example, Valentino there are still things we don’t know about (besides him being an artist and rapist), like his connection with Angel Dust, how they met, how did he meet Velvette and Vox, how did Valentino die as a human, etc.

For Crimson, I would live if Millie killed him off and he was a one off character. He is so forgettable, but I’m sure Vivziepop has plans for him. I’ve been seeing theories that he’s going to do something to Moxxie and Millie’s future/potential kid. This could lead to actual face off between Moxxie/Millie and Crimson. Getting closure, etc. Ozzie could get revenge on Crimson for kidnapping Fizzarolli.

And Stella! I don’t know what the future will look for her and it’s hard to tell what Vivziepop will do with her. I wouldn’t be surprised if Stella ended up homeless and kicked out of her mansion by Octavia or Stella somehow gets a restraining order from Stolas. Vivziepop mentioned in an interview that Stella has a Beatrice backstory for season 3.

[arcaneconfessions]

Seen discussion about racism in different sides of the fandom. Plenty of shitheads all around but honestly, the current winner of Shittiest Part Of Arcane Fandom is Caitvi stans who respond to Caitlyn criticism with memes of police brutality, including an image of Derek Chauvin killing George Floyd with Arcane characters edited in. Jesus Fucking Christ. What the fuck is wrong with some of you? This is Get Your Ass Beat IRL behavior. What in the actual fuck? Fucking psychopathic.

Caitvi shippers and Caitlyn fans in general, if you don't want to be seen as illiterate girlboss neo fascists, call this shit out. Get your house in order before you start acting like any criticism of your girl in lesbophobia or depriving you of representation. This isn't the 90s or early 2000s, you are not deprived of queer women in media, and I am saying that as a queer woman.

If you treat Caitlyn's story arc as a fascinating case study on how trauma impacts decision-making, and if you look at the various ways that police work morally compromised both Marcus, Grayson, and Caitlyn, you will realize that your "Caitlyn did nothing wrong" PR campaign is actually flattening the depth of the Season 2 writing for this character. Many Caitlyn stans are actually making a fascinating character boring with this bullshit.

.

[mumuscae]

SPOILERS!!! SPOILERS!!!

Rant on Storytaco's bad writing of dark skinned characters. Specifically Sirius.

I wanna start this out with saying, I do not hate Sirius as a character. He's one of my favorites and I feel like he had wasted potential being in the hands of Storytaco. I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying Sirius as a character either! I believe however that we can enjoy media, and look at it from a critical lense. There are good things about his character and I enjoy a lot of how he was written lore wise!!! Otherwise I wouldn't be so violently obsessed with him since the age of 15 lol. But again. There are a combination of things that I can't really see as a coincidence.

If you have anything to add, or disagree with any of my points, please do not be afraid to say so! I wanna have an actual discussion about this. please I do not bite. I stand pretty firm on my points at this very moment, but I'm entirely willing to listen and change.

Uh. Apologies if my points come across poorly or if my writing is incoherent. There's a reason why I did bad in school lol.

My criticisms are below here. Have fun

Anyways.

Fuck Storytaco?

Uh. This is 100% inspired by recent discussion on the fandoms treatment of Sirius. But I'd like to discuss why this treatment is actively perpetuated by the developers of Arcana Twilight. Which is much more disturbing to think about when you consider their games are often marketed towards minors.(There are other issues with storytaco marketing towards minors too. Uh, idk if those are relevant for this post though. Maybe later cuz it's high key disturbing!!! 😃)

Sirius was written very inconsiderately. Like I know he's a villainous/morally gray character. However I feel like there needs to be a lot more tact when your only dark skinned character is written to be not a good person. Especially in comparison to the light skinned characters. I feel like they just applied every negative trait on earth to him, then turned around and went "jk guys! He's not actually bad. Hes like this cuz he's an orphan." 😭 Like some of these traits would be fine in their own if balanced out with other things, but there's so many combined together that I can't help but feel suspicious of their intentions and bias.

He's the most provocative out of all the love interests. He's consistently initiating suggestive situations, is labeled the "sexyman", and is constantly making innuendos. The game has a lot of fan service in general (even though it's rated E), but Sirius is disproportionately portrayed this way and is just constantly going "hehe sex 😁" Which making him the provocative one is both an issue with him being queer coded and dark skinned..double whammy 😟

He's the dangerous, unpredictable and violent one. He SHOT!!! SHOT the mc within the first few floors. And like. There wasn't even a good reason behind why they decided to write that in other than to make us think he's violent/dangerous/untrustworthy. There are times when it's portrayed that he can't even be trusted alone in a room with the mc, even prior to the villain arc. 😐

He's a pretty much a domestic terrorist.... 😐

He was a wanted criminal for half of the story. Idk if I need to explain what's wrong with that either 😐

He's potentially the only one killed off at the ending depending on your interpretation.

In the clan equivalent of Americans (cough. Guns + eagles + the lazy unlikable rebellious group that just gets into trouble) which is just. Silly. 😭😒

Again he's the "untrustworthy one that nobody wants to be around." This is a point constantly driven in by the characters he's surrounded with. they drill that into the viewers head so so so much.

He's the "party animal" of the group??? Which isn't really portrayed beyond him drinking a lot but was definitely advertised as such.

He's 100% queer coded you cannot convince me otherwise. Which. Now we're falling into queer coded poc villain territory. Double whammy again! Disney is that you?

Going off the queer coded point, he's falling into "predatory gay man" territory. Hes shipped with basically every man in the game by storytaco for promotional and bait reasons. But it's always displayed as Sirius making the other party uncomfortable and getting in their personal space. Making unwanted advances. Like... Y'all don't got a do that

Ok this is possibly nitpicky but deadass why'd they make him a basketball player in the highschool au thingy. He's a theater kid. Nothing about him reads as liking sports. Please do not wear dangly earrings while playing sports??? It bothers me so much 💀

Okay so the sassy, violent, deranged, perverted terrorist... is the only romance-able dark skinned man in the game. ??? NONONO just think about that for a good moment

HE HAS OTHER THINGS IN HIS CHARACTER. THERE ARE GOOD PARTS ABOUT HIS CHARACTER!!! I LOVE SIRIUS SO MUCH. HES VERY COMPLEX AND INTERESTING.. but this is such a horrible combination of very specific negative tropes that it's hard to ignore. Especially when thinking about how this game is advertised to minors who, more often than not, are easily subjected to subconscious bias in media and are easily influenced due to our lack of ability to critically analyze media we're haphazardly consuming. (Sorry fellow minors. As a senior minor aka 17 yo it's the hard truth y'all gotta accept. we've all been there and we've been influenced by media whether we're aware of it or not. I'm not mad at y'all or belittling. Keep having ur funsies with ur silly star men I'm not stopping you lol? This is legitimate concern and criticism towards a company that is promoting weird stereotypes to us)

And I don't think Sirius is just a one off weirdly written dark skinned character from Storytaco. Thuban (WHO IS GREEEEEY. Big issue on its own 😰😭) is depicted as lazy and rude.???? Like he has a single redeeming moment but again. Just reads as "domineering rowdy black man." Especially when you look at the whole great hero trio .. he's supposed to fall within the fantasy "Fighter" archetype with his big ass mace. Compared to Polaris who is like a Cleric and the Wizard/Ranger Schedar.

Also shout out to storytacos other grey men.....???????? I was only able to find four dark skinned men (not just tanned a bit) including Sirius when I went thru Storytacos game catalogue. Two of them are grey. 😐

Anyways Sirius was a huge motivating factor in why I wanted to make Extraterrestrial... Fucked up potential of a character. There are 100% biases showing through how he was written. These were all conscious decisions made on the writers part and I don't think it can be kept behind "he's a morally gray character who's going thru it" because there were so many good ways to show that and his grief without going to every. single. extreme.

--

[1296-very-good-year]

Thank you! I've been waiting for dissent on this. And I won't even call you stupid :)

My opinion here was not kneejerk. This season has gotten more rotten the more I think about it (which has been A LOT)

No I think Season 2 did a lot of needless backflipping to avoid discussing class conflict - that was the heart of Season 1 - in exchange for magic is bad, and forgiveness... or whatever.

That Piltover's request for help was lopsided is not the problem. The problem was the onus to do the right thing was put on Zaun. NOT Piltover. There were zero apologies or repercussions for the martial law and oppression.

Viktor used the Hexcore to cure his terminal disease that was killing him. Not some nebulous "weakness" in himself or humanity.

Jayce's actions were either all part of a master plan he concocted offscreen with future Viktor, or a series of dumbass decisions that led directly to everything he was trying to prevent, and only Ekko coming in last second saved the day. There is no inbetween here. Whatever you want to think is right, is right, because the show works overtime to hide his thoughts from the audience for that nonsense mageViktor twist at the end.

I think you need to reread my point about Viktor saving baby Jayce. It is an UN ambiguous RETCON.

You can read a million other posts about Vi's lack of character arc. Who does she choose, between Cait and Jinx, by the way? Because the show takes that choice away from her by removing Jinx.

Vander's first death had infinitely more meaning than him coming back to life over and over.

Isha was not a character foil to Jinx. She had no character at all, aside from wanting Jinx to be a rebel. Why did she want Jinx to rebel? Who was she? Did she have a deep hatred for Piltover's oppression? Who knows.

Love you assuming that because I wanted Jinx to have an interesting, morally dubious character arc, that I hate mentally ill people recovering.

Caitlyn literally became leader under martial law. She was a dictator. That is not an interpretation. She lost an eye in a fight with Ambessa, not as a consequence for oppressing Zaun.

Viktor didn't need to tell Ambessa his plan. It was OBVIOUS. He was speaking through the voice boxes of all of his collapsed robot followers, saying they were "all one". Would YOU give someone like that everything they wanted? Hypocrisy is fine in a character, but did anyone call her out on it? Make her defend herself? Nah. If we don't bring it up, maybe the audience won't think about it.

Turning Silco and Vander's decisions to adopt Vi and Powder from previously clear, ideological CHARACTER DEFINING choices into them just fulfilling a promise to their dead mom, is lame as hell and not needed. Full stop disagree with you that Silco knew Vi in Season 1. He literally says he regrets that they "never had a chance to speak".

Explaining Mel's motivation does not address the criticism that it was rushed as hell, or that her magic is - for some reason - the only example of good, safe magic. Meanwhile Viktor and Jayce have to kill themselves to make up for inventing and using Hextech. Because they weren't BORN with it, so it's naturally bad.

Ekko didn't actually make up with Jinx in episode 7. He met Powder from an alternate universe. If the showrunners thought that would be a redundant, then maybe they shouldn't have wasted so much of Ekko's time in an alternate universe with a brand new character.

For ppl who liked Arcane season 2, is the honeymoon over yet?

Can we agree that S1 and S2 are completely different shows?

That none of the themes carried over between them?

That Piltover did nothing to earn Zaun coming to their rescue in the final battle?

That Viktor's "cure all weakness" shit came out of nowhere?

That understanding any of Jayce's actions post-talking to mageViktor requires a PhD in eyebrow twitches and nonsense?

That Viktor saving baby Jayce was an unambiguous retcon?

That Vi was just a cardboard cutout that Jinx and Caitlyn wrestled over?

That Vander lived and died at least 2 times too many?

That Isha was just a cute pet for Jinx to monologue at?

That Jinx turned from unhinged terrorist to a defanged, quirky jokester?

That Caitlyn's blink and you'll miss it dictator arc changed nothing and there were zero repercussions for it?

That Ambessa became a hypocritical moron whose anti-mage sentiment ate shit and died when she teamed up with robot mage Viktor, who didn't even PRETEND he wasnt going to hivemind her along with everyone else?

That Silco being close to Powder and Vi's mom, knowing them since they were born, only serves to weaken his relationship with Jinx?

That Mel went from a morally complex, savvy politician into a heroic battle mage, (in like 5 mins of screentime) while all other kinds of magic + Hextech were evil and corrupting and had to be destroyed?

That Ekko convinces Jinx that he went to an alternate reality and fell in love with her and she shouldnt kill herself and to become a revolutionary hero(?) OFF SCREEN?

IS THE HONEYMOON OVER YET?

[affableramen]

I’m sorry that I’m going to raise once again discussion on Pantalone. It’s not because he’s my favourite character apparently, but because I have thoughts on him

I think we can all agree that his wealth and economic movement (let’s speak bluntly) is built on people’s blood and bones. It’s pretty obvious and quite on the surface when he himself says ‘The Northland bank true currencies are blood and tears’ but for me, I never took this quote to notice until I started searching and learning his character. Yes, what he says pretty much depicts how his management and life-long decisions work out, and I may be telling ridiculously evident things now. But since 1, 2 or even 3 people are waiting for my consistent comments on him I’m ready to repeat things that someone already knows about.

It would be extremely realistic (but also ironic) if in the end he would be the one to have the taste of his poor, rotten even ideas of domineering and grasping wealth in his hands. I’d really want to see his world crumble in front of his eyes as it’s (for me) the only good way his story could end. Pretty much his character development or even a redeemable arc could be based upon him losing something he has been working on for 300+ years. But, let’s not forget (and forgive him) for horrible things he’s done, like trying to assassinate Tianshu who has done nothing to harm Pantalone personally and has never deserved what he did to him. I noticed that his anger and hatred spreads even to people who are not guilty before him and this is saddening. His hatred is very unhealthy which should be properly explained but never justified because the bad things he has done is enough. He’s not a good person whatsoever but a possibility of redemption arc is solid. It could either be about him losing his everything once obtained or a drastic measure that changes his personality all through – I can’t say either which one it will be since I have just as much information as you do.

In Chinese version of Arle’s voiceover on him there is a word “loathe” which I like very much, as it depicts his entire arrogant, self-centred personality, only interested in vengeance and cultivating those negative emotions and experiences he had. Sadly with Genshin unsatisfying writing right now I do not have hopes for his story to be extremely daunting or attractive even, but I just shared my thoughts on him, maybe some will feel strongly, or maybe not.

[survivalove]

Sorry i know you don't like getting asks about this topic but it's related to your last post responding to that dumbass zk but it's funny how they keep pushing this false narrative that aang is bryke's self insert, they're clearly projecting cos that's more evident with zuko. like bryan konietzko is on record for saying zuko is his fav character and he's similar to him. dante basco refers to himself as zuko all the time while pandering to those desperate zk shippers and even said in an interview one of the reasons he ships zk is cos he was "into" mae whitman (mind you, she was only 16 and he was 30 when atla began airing)

UGH! don’t get me started on the freak that is dante basco. very nasty that he’s the only cast member that is continuously employed by the creators after the way he’s spoken about teen girls, fictional (mai) and real (mae). lol no pun intended. also lines up with the zuko favoritism you’re talking about ;)

the atla fandom has a very serious problem with logic if you haven’t noticed. the show is allegedly sooooo deep yet all their takes are beyond superficial. exhibit a:

1. aang is a mike self-insert because he’s bald

besides the fact that bryan is the one who can draw and talks about aang’s appearance the most, they cling to this narrative because it’s the easiest to sell to people that don’t know any better. just show people a picture of mike and aang and BOOM! narrative set.

meanwhile, as you said, zuko is the actual character favored by one of the creators out of his own mouth. mike has even gone on to say he used his experiences to write korra alone just like how bryan says he puts himself in zuko’s shoes when he writes episodes.

bryan is the one who joked about mike and aang having two bald heads just to state that aang’s inspiration is based on (tibetan) buddhist monks

bryan is the one who compares aang to mike while comparing himself to zuko. mike has never compared himself to aang unprompted

because the truth is, aang is a survivor of colonialism and genocide, raised outside of western ideals of masculinity. bryke clearly did their research on all the different cultures as creators and that’s commendable and all but ppl acting like that means that erases their caucasian-american perspective is bonkers.

aang can never be a self-insert to them because they are closer to the oppressors than the oppressed and that’s just a fact

zuko, on the other hand, the boy raised in colonial ideals who had to unlearn his wrongs, who is given chance after chance by the narrative despite his direct and indirect participation in colonialism, who is redeemed at the expense of voices of the colonized that he hurt repeatedly on his path to goodness, who is still allowed to have an empire at the end because he saw the error in his ways???

that is the most american you can get on this show and it just shows how most americans that fail to see this never saw themselves as colonizers to begin with. they just want the rest of us to skip to their redemption arc. kinda like how zuko’s arc is discussed by his superglazers lol

but i honestly can’t even just blame americans because a lot of non-american poc in this fandom i see try to push this propaganda as well. like how most of this fandom actually thinks his racist colonizer jokes are funny… or how many fans have been unironically repeating the fire nation’s supremacy logic for DECADES

the second superficial take of course is the “if i was a fourteen year old girl i wouldn’t have even looked aang’s way” thing but that has already been discussed in tandem so i’ll stop typing now

[emo-nova]

Honestly, I have opinions about Nancy Wheeler. She is a good written female character and well written as a character. I put the distinction there because in most media they make their women for "diversity" rather than placing the story in first. And in Stranger Things they put the story forward and diversity is included in the story and dealt well as it linked into the character arcs and the story.

Nancy Wheeler in the first season of ST, kinda annoyed me. The reasoning is that as a girl close to her age, I was mortified when I found out that Jonathan had taken photos of Nancy during the pool party. And honestly, I was expecting a bigger reaction to that fact someone took a photo of her in a state of undress without any consent and when Steve as her boyfriend confronted Jon about it, Nancy had taken a bad reaction to it.

If I was her, yes I will be sorry for your missing brother Jonathan, but that doesn't give you the right to photograph me in that state. And if anything, I was expecting Nancy to act like this was a major invasion of privacy. But it wasn't. And it was treated like it wasn't that important.

I will concede points of arguments that Nancy was more worried about Barb in this time as she was missing at this point. Nancy was thinking more about her friend than about her privacy at that moment. But I find this a flimsy argument. However, i do understand the way Steve tackled the confrontation is deserving of her reaction as it's done at school, in front of people she isn't that close to and in a parking lot.

I am going to state that at this point about her being declared as smart when Nancy was out in the woods with Jonathan looking for Will, she willingly looks at a hole in a tree and decides to Alice in Wonderland that shit. She is the first to discover what the Upside-Down looks like on screen, this may help with identifying the Demogoron but it doesn't stop her from looking at the strange-looking organic hole in a tree and not testing it out with a stick at least. This non-testing method nearly got her killed by the Demogoron and by sheer luck and (in character) fast thinking was able to get out. However, there was a struggle of getting out Upside-Down hole/gate because she didn't test the give of this gate.

This is me being nitpicky about her character, but her handling Steve not leaving the house when waiting for the Demogoron is wild. For her character, someone usually needs time to process what's happening to make a plan, it kind of makes sense but pulling a gun on your boyfriend who was there to apologise is fucked up. Especially when he got worried about the fact you're injured and you tried to hide it from him.

First season wasn't a great foundation for me to like her character, as I slowly noticed she was supposed to be the badass female character. Yes, she is a good shot, but she pulled a gun on a person who was unaware of what was happening. Yes, she is on top of her class, but the simple scientific practice of testing out the theory.

I know that she is to represent a book-smart character in contrast to Jonathan's kinda street-smart edge. She does become that foil very well and I enjoy that.

In season 2, they change things up a tad. Nancy is still book-smart but she is learning the world of street-smarts, going out of her way to show that the government is shit and terrible at hiding a girl's death. I like this. Another thing I like about Nancy is the fallout of her dealing with Barb's death. Her being bitter is humanising and having that affect her relationships is brilliant story telling, connecting stories of Steve and Jonathan further into the story while also doing a fantastic job of giving Steve another call for the show.

Season two, in my opinion, handled Nancy Wheeler the best. Using her to have conflict, cause it and also deal with the aftereffects of the previous season. She is well-utilised as a character and more than just "a girl with a gun who is also smart" and I like that.

Season Three, I have mixed feeling about. She is a good character and a better character study of people's ideals and their thought processes regarding how things are not working out for them. Nancy is a foil to Jonathan's idea of why Nancy is disliked in her work environment. As Nancy comes from a well-off middle-class family which is a contrast to Jonathan's single mother's lower-income family life.

Nancy thinks the reasoning is the stigma in America on women working unlike England (where I am living now and know the history of) where women had already proved they are capable of working jobs even men can do and make the bombs for such. However, Jonathan thinks it's because her status as a well-off middle-class girl is making her more outspoken to the big bosses. Something that an INTERN wouldn't normally do. I agree the bosses are sexist but there is also a line of command in this business, and normally Nancy would give the story over to her mentor in this place. She doesn't do this.

I know there is a story to be told and this is the inciting incident to make Nancy engage with the plot. It's just slightly out of left field when she proceeds with speaking up to her bosses rather than her mentor, Nancy is careful with authority from her pedants to teachers to the cops. So I feel her talking to the bosses about the story going crazy is something she would have asked her mentor to ask them and have them let her engage with the plot, giving another example of good authority but also the workings of the board potentially being sexist by having this story brought up by Nancy or something. I don't know, I just think it could have been handled better.

Season 4, both volumes, are ones that I need to look at more carefully as I need to slim down her character's storyline and her interactions with others' storylines and arcs. So I won't be making too many comments about it.

In conclusion, I have opinions on Nancy Wheeler as a character and how she is written more as a diverse card in some aspects than actually a character to just further the plot and others arcs. She isn't my favourite, but she is one of my favoured as a writer and how I would tackle similar characters

[stellaclaw]

i can see your perspective, and to some extent i do agree. some of my favorite character in other fandoms are villains (something i have actually been attacked over lol).

when i say the books lack complexity, i dont mean the building blocks arent there. however, it needs to be heavily contextualized in that the writers often discard what they have- bonefall found an excellent basis the writers had set, but in crowfeathers trial, its often been noted that breezepelts edges are sanded down to make him more agreeable, and thus give an “easier” version to forgive- indeed, what we see of him in dovewings silence is very inconsistent from crowfeathers trial, and his arc is wrapped up rather abruptly and not even from his pov, when it really, truly should have been to give it a satisfying ending. furthermore, when crowfeather blames nightcloud for breezepelt hating him, we are to some extent supposed to accept that nightcloud was a problem. in the guide books shes described as jealous and bitter and coddling, and even on the official website she is assigned adjectives, and thus we are to assume her defending breezepaw from his father is bad and she had some hand in how he turned out.

the reason warriors is loved is because the pieces are there. but the writers continually neglect them, and in the end water down their own writing. breezepelt is one of the very few cases i mentioned where the set up is good enough that it can still shine while the landing was fumbled.

its why i have such trouble giving such leniency to appledusk. there is a trend in the books of such things, and so it is natural to become skeptical of the writers intentions, which im sure is something you can understand.

i can fully accept people wanting to see complexity in appledusk, and hes probably a character i would like in a “messy guy” sort of way, but there is a problem in parts of the fandom where people defend his cheating (usually by portraying mapleshade as a “buff scary woman” and depicting him as small and frail, and positioning reedshine, who he also deceived, as a therapist to him). maybe i can like him some day (i am number 1 frecklewish fan yes she did those bad things and it just adds flavor to her), but ive personally dealt with that sort of… gestures vaguely.

also dw about rambling lol i had no idea where i was going either. also didnt mean to assume, i spent a lot of time in the wcrp forums so my brain is just kind of attuned to read into things. that being said i responded calmly because i do not like to assume actual malice, doing so just makes a meaner fandom space and also prevents interesting discussions like this.

anyway if people are allowed to make excuses for bramblestar and fucking appledusk, I should also get to say that nightcloud did nothing wrong

[shinehalley]

"We need more complex female characters"

Well, what a odd thing to say when you are not even prepared to deal with Crystal Palace. Like, she's complex as hell, but her arcs are pretty easy to understand, and yet I still see people villainizing her. You want complex female characters, but you're not ready for them, especially if there's an m/m couple, canon or not, in the mix.

[mollysunder]

I have a problem with the idea of a Jinx redemption arc. It's not that I have any issue with the fact that Jinx will be viewed as a hero to the people of Zaun. It's pretty obvious Jinx would be admired, she did a thing the people of Zaun wanted en masse for a long time. The thing about Jinx being the savior of Zaun is that it isn't really a redemption arc, because that's still just Jinx being militantly opposed to Piltover, a thing she always has been.

My problem is that the insistence that Jinx NEEDS to have a redemption arc takes away from the larger complexity of Arcane's worldbuilding. What does Jinx have to apologize for in order to be redeemed? Why is there so much emphasis on Jinx's character specifically to rectify her wrongs? And the way the fandom often defines Jinx's wrongdoings centers around a vague discomfort in her acts of violence and general instability.

What does it look like for Jinx to be "good", when the actions of many well-intentioned characters that the audience has an easier time being morally-aligned with either generates very little benefit or actual harm? No one in the cast sans Jinx and Silco have taken the material steps (as controversial as they may be) to deal with the problem that is Piltover, and Piltover has always been THE problem for Zaun.

The concept of a redemption arc for Jinx is so backwards because it asks Jinx as an individual to do "better" when it should be demanded of Piltover instead. How do you live to a standard that makes you morally good when the environment around you necessitates violence as it's own form of capital?

Sidenote: This all leads to the one real worry I have about Jinx and Ekko's inevitable partnership. Ekko is the character the showrunners treat as a guiding light in Zaun, which unfortunately makes Ekko an agent of the showrunners' biases. Case in point, Ekko's friendship with Heimerdinger, the architect of Zaun's despair.

If Jinx and Ekko team up, there's a chance she'd up end up working with Heimerdinger too. And it's like, "C'mon, really????"

[himejoshiangels]

cass cain is so emotive and I hate that so many of yall fall straight into the stoic asian woman stereotype thing because like, the only reason cass wouldn't vocalize a feeling is when she would struggle to find the word for it because she literally wasn't taught how to speak. that's so fucking upsetting. She has such big beautiful emotions, she feels so deeply about the littlest things but everytime she has trouble putting it into words she's reminded that she was conceived not to. her abuser did not have her feelings or her pain in mind, only how well she could end a life. can you fucking imagine