#i like dean as a character he’s very interesting
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wellofdean · 3 days ago
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So, I read the response above which is so interesting, and I want to keep thinking about it, and then after that had these interesting tags in my feed from @bloodyentrails...
#i think that sam being compassionate towards certain people is kinda normal we tend to relate on a personal level#and him being queer-coded etc doesn't mean you have to care about him#just that that is a thing?#idk what kind of discourse i'm wandering into a lot of the time but relating to characters#and understanding they have been written in a certain way isn't the same thing#which is to say that i would love it if the writing had tackled that inconsistency#but i find that the show on the whole is inconsistent#and i think it's hard to maintain consistency over so many years with so many people working on it#i do think both of them are *trying* to be good people and they sometimes fail and also what constitutes a good person is kinda open#anyway#bear in mind i'm still only halfway through so#maybe i'll change my mind on all this#spn
It's a point worth considering that in the world of the show, Sam's sympathy for monsters seems principled and some how defies gravity, but that in the real world it wouldn't translate to anything real; that's likely true, and an interesting point. Having said that, I think Sam is pretty clearly not particularly"real world" compassionate, and I don't need monsters to make the argument that Sam is not the compassionate one because he shows a general lack of empathy towards PEOPLE, including but by no means limited to Dean, throughout the show. And, ok, he sometimes argues for a compassionate response to monsters and Dean doesn't always respond favourably, but that's because Sam fears he is one, and he needs to believe monsters are not all bad, which is not borne out of compassion, it's a rationalization that serves his psychological needs.
Basically, I think Sam is all surface. Sam is the urbane one, the smart one, the compassionate one, the one who talks nice to people, the broadly queer-coded one, the feminist, etc., but with Sam, all that is skin deep. He APPEARS as such! He's good at pretending, but he's nearly as savage as John is, Dean is much more sensitive to other people's needs, Dean is every bit as clever as he is, and intuitive to boot, Sam can ACT compassionate, but in fact he isn't really very empathetic to anyone, and he is able to just move on from all the things Dean just can't, Sam's not in fact queer, but Dean is queered to his fucking bones, and Sam's the one whose unconsciously replicated misogyny allows him to think any woman that would be into Dean is obviously a whore, and to keep his girlfriend in the dark about the truth of his life, while Dean is just talking a big game of cartoon misogyny TO SAM while treating the women he interacts with pretty fucking respectfully, actually.
Honestly, it's the same as the way Sam is supposedly the 'main character'. He's introduced as the one we should care about and identify with, but within, like, two episodes, he's really just a foil for Dean. Sam has BIG PLOTS, but it's Dean's feelings, reactions and relationships we really care about.
And, the fact is, Sam was pretty well-realized in the earlier eps. JarPad was giving it some effort, and he was charming then with his boyishness -- the way he seemed like he hadn't fully lived into his physical real estate -- but the thing is, he never could really hold a candle to Dean who was just magnetic. All the interesting character development was given to Dean and Jensen killed it by always making it seem like Dean had so much going on under the surface, and like, to the extent I care about Sam, it's because Dean loves him.
I kind of wonder what happened. Was Dean always meant to be the dark horse hero? Or was Dean just...played by a better, more compelling actor, and they started writing for him instead? There are so many much more interesting things they could have done with Sam, and they just...DIDN'T.
I dunno, I suppose it could just be me, but I feel like the way Sam just SEEMS, Dean IS.
maybe this is me being a dumb overly literal autist stemlord who simply does not understand literary theory or some shit equivalent but why should i care about someone being coded as [X] when i can just. care about someone who is [X]. why should i care more about the conventionally attractive white woman with a job and mortgage because she's metaphorically othered due to being a supernatural creature when i could care about the actually othered addicts that she used as a source of food. help me out here.
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latibulater · 3 days ago
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i love think tank honestly i think he would have been better than a one-episode arch like his design? first of all is so fun. love his hover chair! love having another huge-head character (i wonder if billy knows of him at all). he such an emotive guy
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he seems to really love teaching his non-interested students, and it's honestly very sweet imo how he reaches out to dean and suggests he avoid the tower during the time of his father's arch, and i mean you could interpret it as him saving his own reputation, but i think it's because he doesn't wish for dean to be harmed. and its funny and genuine to me the way he says to dean the essay is shit but he is one of the best students of the semester. ik when i went from home school to real school i struggled hard at first with writing papers, so i wonder if dean is the same like he's enjoying the class and is kind of grasping the concepts but he is plagiarizing by accident and has lots of run-on sentences (like this one). but it's sweet that nidaba still calls dean "one of the brightest" (even if you interpret this to be buttering up which i do not)
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and he seems to be a moriarty without a sherlock from this little scene where he deducts dean's home life from different clues. i like that he says "i interpret the data" because that's much less wishy-washy then bbc sherlock. he's so handsome here genuinely
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and his nietzsche quote "all great things must first wear terrifying and monstrous masks in order to inscribe themselves on the hearts of humanity." honestly is so relavent to the show and the way he is so exasperated no one knew that. professor dr. nidaba, i swear you just need a tumblr girlie in your class.
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the tank just goes up? the wall?
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imminent doom detected
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i love how he gestures with the tank...nozzle(?) like the machine is really an adapted living device. and literally he has this awesome killer entrance to set up some chess like he literally just wants a nice game night
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i feel so bad for him look
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sweetheart 😭 his whole plan for the evening just got blown up like that wall. i feel so bad for him his little "who are you calling" like he's gotten in trouble 😭😭😭
but brock will play!!!! he's so excited now
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and he can create a force field??? thats literally so cool. this scene with brocks arm is so funny like brock is acting a little unhinged but think tank is literally so bewildered
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and who else got flirty undertones from this
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and this was such a great scene him getting shot out the window while rusty's getting scammed by watch&ward. and then when warriana called think tank a "pompous son of a gorgon" a) love the insult b) their previous fights mustve been so funny think tank would use a lot of greek myth references and warriana would be like SHUT UPPPP *kicks him across the street*
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look brock had so much fun with this fight and nidaba, while annoyed by warriana busting in, i think enjoyed it too! also i like this pic of him with just the undersuit.
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i feel so bad for him he literally got his night fucked up by rusty's annoying silly ass and then got beat up by someone not even supposed to be there and now he's just trying to hail a cab bc his tank got trashed and then he gets WRECKED by a VAN. and what's this? stars n garters literally singing at nidaba's bedside?????
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i loved this scene so much its so silly and off-beat, i love knowing that think tank's colleague/arch-rival cares enough about him to lug a guitar down to the hospital while nidaba's unconscious. WHY COULDNT WE HAVE HAD THINK TANK IN COMA TOWN?!
anyways thats about it :^) i just think it's a shame hammer&publick didn't develop or bring back think tank he's such a great and underrated character. also he doesn't even have a first name like wtf!!! i'm naming him dr. nathan (not nate!) nidaba
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keen-eye · 2 months ago
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Hello, Dean 🫵
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fernhelm · 19 days ago
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people who are afraid of fem sirius are the weakest links in this fandom
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adreamoverlife · 11 months ago
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Is this a safe place to admit I don’t really like the way Castiel is often talked about in relation to destiel or will I be crucified for the second time
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sammygender · 7 months ago
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so many people can’t conceptualise emotional neglect as anything other than ‘my parents were cold and distant and never talked about feelings with me’, and this, while being just a general awful problem of course, is also what leads to so much john winchester mischaracterisation. in this essay i will
#like. it can also be#a parent who you’re close to who is actually extremely emotional and explosive and reactive#and via forcing you to look after their emotional needs and spilling their problems all over you also teaches you that your feelings qrs re#unimportant and that you’re unimportant. even if they dont necessarily mean to or they dont with their words!#anyway i’m sure john winchester was a mix of the two#but my point is like. God this applies to so much actually#there’s this incredibly pervasive idea that damaging parenting has to be like. i dunno. distant somehow#your parents don’t love you. you’re not close to your parents#and obviously that IS damaging but it’s not the only way a parental relationship can be damaging… far from it#and a lot of what makes john so interesting to me is he DOES love the boys. of course he does#and he isn’t some hyper repressed incredibly macho figure either like some people characterise him#he’s warm with the boys when we see him in s1. sure he turns all his emotions into anger but it’s always very clear he Has deep emotions.#everything he does is powered by ‘love���#(theoretically).#like. hes obviously close with dean. he even has strong ideals about parenting when he starts off (see 70s era john disgusted at how future#john actually raised them lol).#and he’s still extremely abusive and neglectful and damages sam and dean soooo much. like. all that can coexist#and it’s such a disservice to flatten his character and pretend it doesn’t#plus it just offends me. like come on.#idk i guess a lot of people like to project their own bad experiences onto john and it’s not like i’m saying they shouldn’t do that#but. characterisation wise#he’s awful in a very specific way#spn#john winchester#oliver talks
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flugame-mp3 · 8 months ago
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SEASON NINE FINALE WAS WILD. I HAVE MANY MANY THOUGHTS. WHAT JUST HAPPENED. A FUCKING ROLLER COASTER FOR SURE
#theo.txt#I DID NOT REALIZE DEMON DEAN WAS NOW#DESPITE KNOWING THAT YEAH HE LOOKS ABOUT THAT AGE OR WHATEVER IN THE SCREENCAPS IVE SEEN#WHEN I TELL YOU I CHEERED AT THE END WHEN I REALIZED WHAT WAS GOING ON!!!!! i love crowley pulling some bullshit at the last minute. classi#king of hell shit#and in the end scene where it's just mark sheppard's stellar monologue and the EYELID NOISE... chefs kiss that got me so hyped for s10#i do think this finale got me really interested to see what s10 brings generally#AND DOESNT ROWENA SHOW UP THIS SEASON?? WE LOVE TO SEE IT IM EXCITED#rip gadreel though he was an interesting character. sad he had to die just to prove a point and blow up a cell. but a fitting end ig?? :(#i also loved cas's plan at the end though with the angel radio thing. get his ass lol#but also god i felt so bad for him. can the narrative give him a fucking break. he is trying his god damn best#the curse of free will and the curse of loving. painful but you do it anyway. castiel when i get my hands on you#also if i am not mistaken... the shot parallels to sams first death with deans death... we cry#IS SAM JUST GONNA BE ALL ALONE NOW?? I ASSUME CROWLEY TAKES DEAN WITH HIM?#OH NO 😭😭😭 SAM BABY IM SO SORRY#not that he doesnt always have a rough time but he has a particularly excruciating season. someone give this man a hug#i feel for him very deeply#'i lied' 'ain't that a bitch?' got me. i hate them. SOOOO brothers.#anyway#AAAAAAAAUGH#also why was metatron the worlds number one destiel shipper at the end of the season here im DEAD. MULTIPLE pieces of dialogue hes like 'yo#did it all for HUMANITY... for your ONE HUMAN of CHOICE... the HUMAN who motivates you...' JUST CALL HIM A SLUR WHY DONT YOU#im dead#idk what the general community thoughts are on that episode but i did enjoy it. wild fucking ride from start to finish#s9 wasnt my favorite and definitely did not hook me in the second quarter for some reason. def was not as compelling as like s7 for me but#the points that i liked i really enjoyed#loved sam resorting to summoning crowley. he wants his ass dead SO bad. i think sam deserves the world after the shit he was put through#this season#anyway overall. i am gnawing on the walls and pacing around my room at incredible speeds. what is UP with this show.#man.
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incesthemes · 1 year ago
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ok what i really like about the family dynamics presented in spn is that dean, despite being a cocky, sarcastic, emotionally stunted bastard, is the mediator and the family man. honestly it reminds me a lot of my own family, so the seeming contradiction makes perfect sense because i'm so familiar with it. he has next to no emotional intelligence, but he's unwaveringly devoted to his family and will do anything to keep them safe, even going so far as to sacrifice himself emotionally and physically for john and sam. it's a very unique brand of selflessness that i don't see portrayed all that often because the "mediator" characters are usually the more emotional and kind-hearted characters (take, for example, piper in charmed)
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mybrainproblems · 2 years ago
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brain is just mii waiting room music as i consider where i've ended up in my supernatural fandom journey
#that is to say: a berenscrit dabbfan and glynn stan who considers s1-3 kripke and dabb era to be the best eras of spn#which means i'm sad bloodlines wasn't picked up as separate from spn and think it's a blessing in disguise that wayward wasn't greenlit#also i'm going to be watching an adaptation of a YA novel that i have zero interest in just bc glynn is the showrunner....#i wasn't in the fandom when wayward wasn't picked up but everything i've heard really sounds like it could've been a firefly s2 situation#i feel like the issues with kaia's character are well-understood at this point but killing off missouri to make her a spirit guide(???)#for patience is uh. questionable. and depending on how it was handled could have fallen badly into the magical negro trope#the shitty thing is that we all know it wasn't picked up bc execs thought an all-female cast with middle aged women as leads#wasn't marketable to a larger audience and that part is bullshit but i think maybe it was best it didn't go forward as it was planned#like unless they were intending to have a very diverse writers room i cannot imagine what berens might have come up with#the creation and treatment of kaia as a character says a lot and i think the blame falls more on him than dabb or other writers bc she was#created with the intention of being on the show he would be showrunner for so i think he had more independence/less oversight#dabb is complicit tho and so are the rest of the writers tbh since it doesn't seem like anyone saw any huge issues with it#also: davy perez wrote a better confession in stuck in the middle with you vs 15x18 and does not get nearly enough respect for it 🙄#tbh *none* of the other writers get enough respect like my god you're gonna stan berens and NOT ms meredith glynn????#thee all-rounder and Understander of late seasons and top 5 writers on the show *ever*?#glynn could do 05x04 the end but bedlund could never do regarding dean#hashtag Takes that would get you cancelled in 2021#spn
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idiosinkratico · 13 days ago
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back to hell (i been replaying fnv and have started Dead Money again)
#jk i actually FUCKING LOVE THIS DLC#I DON'T CARE IF THE GAMEPLAY IS TEDIOUS I LOVE IT UGH I LOVE IT SO MUCH LIKE I BEEN ACTUALLY WAITING TO PLAY IT#LIKE I THINK IS THE BEST DLC WRITTEN#i love it characters. i love its tropes so fucking much is insane#i love Elijah as a villain. like i love insane mad stubborn man AND even better if the man CANNOT be defended at all#i also cant stop thinking that hell if Elijah only wouldn't be so obssesed with this whole ahh slate thing he would be a real genius#like supposedly this man understood tecnology JUST by looking at it#and i think is very. very interesting that he was a scribe and somehow turned into an Elder#but yeah things didn't go well and stuff yknow what happened#then again i like to think about his relationship to Veronica. i mean in the way that like. Veronica def could be as smart as him if#they had a close relationship#but then christine happened#like. how would Veronica feel if she gets to know what Elijah did to Christine??? like damn it would hit since clearly she saw him as some#kind of elder figure#oh well i am basically rambling about how I LOVE how dead money and the main game interwines#like this of course doesnt only happen with dead money but theres something about the way dead money and the main game connects eachother#i just find it soo interesting and fascinating#also i fucking love the graffitis around Sierra Madre (i also love this name. very cool methinks)#these are the traces of the people there... and then also i think there was wayyy more planned about this but they cut it?#or i think they didnt presented fully like it was planned#also the suitcases that Dean left#ofc is mainly for the gameplay but man do i love when gameplay things are explained in lore#oh and also how literally everything about Sierra Madre is explained in the lore#the vending machines. the holograms. the ghost people. the cloud#i think thats cool as hell#also the lore is explained more in the terminals and i love reading terminals like yappieeee#also i love so much all the Pre-war story the post war and the present story#ALSO ALSO i love its themes soooo much#LETTING GO#AND HOW IT CONNECTS TO THE MAIN GAME OWN THEMES
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cassael · 11 months ago
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You know . I've mentioned this at some point on here before but I've heard jo was created as a character that's meant to be ThE fEmAlE dean and I really really don't see it.
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countingdots-tc · 11 months ago
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TEACHER/STUDENT BOOK RECS
*if you want me to add a forbidden romance list, let me know*
𓃠 This is a list with hyperlinks to books that have teacher/student, age gap, and experienced/less experienced themes that I have read! These are in order from most recommended to least recommended based on my opinion.
𓃠 This will be updated as I read more! Think something should be added to the list? then let me know!
𓃠 Happy reading!
⭐️= highly recommend/changed my life
😇= no smut
🌶️=contains smut
💦=read to really get your rocks off
highlighted=warning
PROFESSOR/COACH BOOK LIST
The Unrequited by Saffron A. Kent-⭐️😇
ProfessorxStudent & mental health themes
Cute little poet embarrassingly falls for her grumpy professor. Beautiful slow burn and perfectly describes what it feels like to want someone and not feel enough for them. She is such a realistic female lead and reminds me a lot of y’all 😂. This is THE teacher crush community book. If you don’t read anything, read this!!
The Professor by Invi Wright-⭐️🌶️
ProfessorxStudent
Cute romance by young, new, and self published author. Very relatable female lead. If you enjoyed The Unrequited, you will like this book for all of the same reasons. Quick and easy read, only 240. She isn’t perfect, she’s clumsy, and I wouldn’t even say she’s socially awkward, she’s just a normal college student in her early 20s. She’s a fun narrator. This author has a lot of potential and her writing will only get better.
Gabriel’s Inferno by Slyvain Reynard-⭐️😇
ProfessorxStudent
Such a good dark academia book. Beautifully written and actually has a movie adaptation. I would definitely recommend this if you want a realistic couple but a bit more serious. Characters have so much depth
Off Balance Series by Lucia Franco- 💦
CoachxStudent
Warning: female lead is age of consent NOT legal age.
If you want something really forbidden and fucked up, read this. If you want the MOST insane sex scenes, read this (MINORS STOP). I really don’t even want to add this series to this list but for the girls who wanna go there, have fun. I started this when I was still in high school, read the 3rd one as an adult, it’s not as easy to read now. Take that info as you please. With that being said, it’s one of the best writing and plots I’ve ever read. Lucia Franco’s other work is 😍
The Professor by Skye Warren-🌶️
ProfessorxStudent
Also an ex-boyfriend’s dad book! This book was amazing! Read it in a day and immediately pre ordered the second. The plot twist in this book made me throw my phone! Narrator/FMC is a bit less relatable for me. Has a secret society plot! Potentially brooding Professor
The 4th Degree by Nikki Castle- 💦
MMA CoachxStudent
Warning: parent death & parent w/ chronic illness
Coach is so broody but has a big heart, he just doesn’t like to show it. FMC has so much depth and is really mature for a 19 y.o. Coach is a quiet character with a dirty mouth. Doesn’t talk much but when he does??? The tension between them is chefs kiss. Not too much a a slow burn. “Will they, won’t they, will they, won’t they” vibes.
Lessons In Sin by Pam Goodwin-🌶️
TeacherxStudent with 18 Y.O female lead
Troubled rich girl gets sent off to a catholic boarding school and falls for the asshole Dean of the school. Smut is pretty good, plot works. I’m not going to say it’s bad, I think whether or not it’s enjoyable depends on the person. It wasn’t bad, I just wasn’t obsessed. If you’re just trying to live vicariously through her (aren’t we all), then it works!
Teach Me by L. L. Ash-🌶️
ProfessorxStudent
Really good start, and I do mean GREAT start… I just feel like the sex scene came too soon (Ch. 9/32) and it threw me off but I also like SUPER slow burns. It’s still a good book. I enjoyed the male love interest, Professor Harlo. They’re cute together. Grump and Sunshine.
Waking Olivia by Elizabeth O’Roark
CoachxCollege Athlete & mental health themes
Great concept! Rare that you see two moody & broody MCs… not my favorite execution of it. It’s not so bad that i think it’s objectively bad. I could see where someone else likes it. But I don’t. Why are they grumpily ogling each others bodies by the 3rd chapter? If you just need ur fix, it works. Has potential
Dark Notes by Pam Goodwin-
TeacherxStudent & themes of abuse
Probably DNF-ing
AGE GAP BOOK LIST
Something In The Way Series by Jessica Hawkins-⭐️😇
Sister’s Boyfriend/Husband & “I saw him first”
Most beautiful romance series I’ve ever read, best written books by Jessica Hawkins. I recommend all of her other books. Lake is 16 when she first meets Manning but nothing sexual happens between them for another 3 books until she’s in her 20s. Beautiful slow burn with characters full of depth.
Sinner by Sierra Simone- ⭐️💦
Brother’s Best Friend & religious themes
Amazing character creation and mapping. These characters feel real! This book is about “teaching” a girl about sex before she becomes a nun. It’s not just a bang bang, hump hump book. It has heart and it really good. If you enjoy religious themed romance, you may enjoy Priest by Sierra Simone too. I didn’t 💀
Birthday Girl by Penelope Douglas- 💦
Ex’s Dad
Most popular forbidden romance so whatever you’ve heard about it, dump it. This might be the most tame book on this list. Pacing is good, well written main character. Insane amounts of smut but it doesn’t drive the story forward so feel free to skip it if you get tired.
Love Unexpected by Q. B. Tyler- 💦
Ex Stepdad & parent death
This book is HOT! However after the first few scenes, I got a bit tired of the smut. Well written enough female lead with a rushed ending. However if you just need something to read and not despise it, it’s good enough.
Strictly Off Limits by Jessica Hawkins-🌶️
Dad’s Best Friend
Jessica is my favorite author so I’m a bit biased but she definitely isn’t a smut writer. This novella would’ve been better without smut however it isn’t super present and doesn’t really drive the story forward so don’t feel like you’re missing anything if you skip the smut!
The Doctor by Nikki Sloane- 💦
Ex’s Dad
personally didn’t care for this book, smut starts off way too quick and I’m more of a slow burn girl. It is a novella yet, it was still too quick. However! You may love it <3
𓃠 If I’m not reading fast enough for you and you want to see what I will be reading in the future here is my Amazon TBR, have at it!
𓃠 If you want to see a more organized bookshelf of what I’ve read, here is my Goodreads!
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wilcze-kudly · 5 months ago
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Hey so can we like stop with the "Zutara is for the girls and Kataang is for the boys" thing. It's silly and it's breakdancing just on the edge of gender essentialism.
The assumption that there is something inherent to Zutara that appeals predominantly to women and Kataang that appeals predominantly to men is dishonest because every ship can have appeal to all genders.
The discussion of the "female gaze" in Zutara and the "male gaze" in Kataang is also redundant. I enjoy dissecting the concept of "the gaze", however it is important to note that the "female gaze" doesn't have a set definition or grouping of conventions it adheres to. Lisa French,  Dean of RMIT University’s School of Media and Communication says:
“The female gaze is not homogeneous, singular or monolithic, and it will necessarily take many forms... The aesthetic approaches, experiences and films of women directors are as diverse as their individual life situations and the cultures in which they live. The "female' gaze” is not intended here'to denote a singular concept. There' are many gazes."
Now excuse me as I put on my pretentious humanistics student hat.
Kataang's appeal to women and the female gaze
Before I start, I want to note that the female gaze is still a developing concept
There are very few female film directors and writers, and most of them are white. The wants and desires of women of colour, the demographic Katara falls into, are still wildly underepresented. Additionally, the concept of the female gaze had many facets, due to it being more focused on emotional connections rather than physical appearance as the male gaze usually is. Which means that multiple male archetypes fall into the category of "for the female gaze".
The "female gaze" can be best described as a response to the "male gaze", which was first introduced by Laura Mulvey in her paper: "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema" , however the term "male gaze" itself was not used in the paper.
Mulvey brought up the concept of the female character and form as the passive, objectified subject to the active voyeuristic male gaze, which the audience is encouraged to identify, usually through the male character.
To quote her:
"In a world ordered by sexual imbalance', pleasure' in looking has been split between active'/male' and passive/female'. The determining male gaze' projects its fantasy onto the female' figure', which is styled accordingly."
Mulvey also brings up the concept of scopopfillia (the term being introduced by Freud), the concept of deriving sexual gratification from both looking and being looked at. This concept has strong overtones of voyeurism, exhibitionism and narcissism, placing forth the idea that these overtones are what keeps the male viewer invested. That he is able to project onto the male character, therefore being also able to possess the passive female love interest.
However, it's important to note that Mulvey's essay is very much a product of its times, focused on the white, heterosexual and cisgender cinema of her time. She also drew a lot of inspiration from Freud's questionable work, including ye ole penis envy. Mulvey's paper was groundbreaking at the time, but we can't ignore how it reinforces the gender binary and of course doesn't touch on the way POC, particularly women of colour are represented in film.
In her paper, Mulvey fails to consider anyone who isn't a white, cis, heterosexual man or woman. With how underrepresented voices of minorities already are both in media and everyday life, this is something that we need to remember and strive to correct.
Additionally Mulvey often falls into gender essentialism, which I previously mentioned at the beginning of this post. Funny how that keeps coming up
"Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema" started a very interesting and important conversation, and I will still be drawing from certain parts of it, however huge swathes of this text have already become near archaic, as our culture and relationship with media evolves at an incredible pace.
And as filmaking evolves, so does our definition of the male and female gaze. So let's see what contemporary filmakers say of it.
In 2016, in her speech during the Toronto International Film Festival , producer of the TV series Transparent, Jill Soloway says:
“Numero uno, I think the Female Gaze is a way of “feeling seeing”. It could be thought of as a subjective camera that attempts to get inside the protagonist, especially when the protagonist is not a Chismale. It uses the frame to share and evoke a feeling of being in feeling, rather than seeing – the characters. I take the camera and I say, hey, audience, I’m not just showing you this thing, I want you to really feel with me.
[Chismale is Soloway's nickname for cis males btw]
So the term "female gaze" is a bit of a misnomer, since it aims to focus on capturing the feelings of characters of all genders. It's becoming more of a new way of telling stories in film, rather than a way to cater to what white, cisgender, heterosexual women might find attractive in a man.
Now, Aang is the decided protagonist of the show, however, Atla having somewhat of an ensemble cast leads to the perspective shifting between different characters.
In the first episode of atla, we very much see Katara's perspective of Aang. She sees him trapped in the iceberg, and we immediately see her altruism and headstrong nature. After she frees Aang, we are very much first subjected to Katara's first impressions of him, as we are introduced to his character. We only see a sliver of Aang's perspective of her, Katara being the first thing he sees upon waking up.
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We see that she is intrigued and curious of him, and very excited about his presence. She is endeared and amused by his antics. She is rediscovering her childish side with his help. She is confiding in him about her own trauma surrounding the Fire Nation's genocide of the Southern Waterbenders. She is willing to go against her family and tribe ans leave them behind to go to the Northern Water Tribe with Aang. We also see her determination to save him when he is captured.
As the show moves on and the plot kicks into gear, we do shift more into Aang's perspective. We see his physical attraction to her, and while we don't see Katara's attraction quite as blatantly, there are hints of her interest in his appearance.
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This is where we get deeper into the concept of Aang and Katara's mutual interest and attraction for one another. While her perspective is more subtle than most would like, Katara is not purely an object of Aang's desire, no more than he is purely an object of her desire.
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When analysing this aspect of Katara and Aang's relationship, I couldn't help but be reminded of how Célene Sciamma's Portrait of a lady on fire (in my personal opinion, one of the best studies of the female gaze ever created) builds up its romance, and how it places a strong emphasis on the mutuality of the female gaze.
Portrait of a lady on fire's cinematography is very important to the film. We see the world through the perspective of our protagonist, a painter named Marianne. We also see her love interest, Héloïse, the woman whom she is hired to paint a portrait of, through Marianne's lense.
We see Marianne analyse Héloïse's appearance, her beauty. We look purely through Marianne's eyes at Héloïse for a good part of the movie, but then, something unexpected happens. Héloïse looks back. At Marianne, therefore, in some way, also at the audience. While Marianne was studying Héloïse, Héloïse was studying Marianne.
We never shift into Héloïse's perspective, but we see and understand that she is looking back at us. Not only through her words, when she for example comments on Marianne's mannerisms or behaviours, but also hugely through cinematography and acting of the two amazing leads. (Noémie Merlant as Marianne and Adèle Haenel as Héloïse. They truly went above and beyond with their performances.)
This is a huge aspect of the female gaze's implementation in the film. The camera focuses on facial expressions, eyes and body language, seeking to convey the characters' emotions and feelings. There's a focus on intense, longing and reciprocated eye contact (I have dubbed this the Female Gays Gaze.). The characters stand, sit or lay facing each other, and the camera rarely frames one of them as taller than the other, which would cause a sense of power imbalance.
The best way to describe this method of flimaking is wanting the audience to see the characters, rather than to simply look at them. Sciamma wants us to empathise, wants us to feel what they are feeling, rather than view them from a distance. They are to be people, characters, rather than objects.
Avatar, of course, doesn't display the stunning and thoughtful cinematography of Portrait of a Lady on Fire, and Katara and Aang's relationship, while incredibly important, is only a part of the story rather than the focus of it.
However, the 'Kataang moments' we are privy to often follow a similar convention to the ones between Marianne and Héloïse that I mentioned prior.
Theres a lot of shots of Katara and Aang facing each other, close ups on their faces, particularly eyes, as they gaze at one another.
Katara and Aang are often posited as on equal grounds, the camera not framing either of them as much taller and therefore more powerful or important than the other. Aang is actually physically shorter than Katara, which flies in the face in usual conventions of the male fantasy. (I will get to Aang under the male gaze later in this essay)
And even in scenes when Aang is physically shown as above Katara, particularly when he's in the Avatar state, Katara is the one to pull him down, maintaining their relationships as equals.
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Despite most of the show being portrayed through Aang's eyes, Katara is not a passive object for his gaze, and therefore our gaze, to rest upon. Katara is expressive, and animated. As an audience, we are made aware that Katara has her own perspective. We are invited to take part in it and try to understand it.
Not unlike to Portrait of a Lady on Fire, there is a lot of focus placed on mannerisms and body language, an obvious example being Katara often playing with her hair around Aang, telegraphing a shy or flustered state. We also see her express jealousy over Aang, her face becoming sour, brows furrowed. On one occasion she even blew a raspberry, very clearly showing us, the audience, her displeasure with the idea of Aang getting attention from other girls.
Once again, this proves that Katara is not a passive participant in her own relationship, we are very clealry shown her perspective of Aang. Most of the scenes that hint at her and Aang's focus on their shared emotions, rather than, for example, Katara's beauty.
Even when a scene does highlight her physical appearance, it is not devoid of her own thoughts and emotions. The best example of this being the scene before the party in Ba Sing Se where we see Katara's looking snazzy in her outfit. Aang compliments her and Katara doesn't react passively, we see the unabashed joy light up her face, we can tell what she thinks of Aang's comment.
In fact, the first moment between Katara and Aang sets this tone of mutual gaze almost perfectly. Aang opens his eyes, and looks at Katara. Katara looks back.
There is, once again, huge focus on their eyes in this scene, the movement of Aang's eyelids right before they open draws out attention to that part of his face. When the camera shows us Katara, is zooms in onto her expression as it changes, her blinking also drawing attention to her wide and expressive eyes.
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This will not be the first time emphasis is placed on Katara and Aang's mutual gaze during a pivotal moment in the show. Two examples off the top of my head would be the Ends of B2 and B3 respevtively. When Katara brings Aang back to life, paralleling the first time they laid eyes on one another. And at the end of the show, where their gaze has a different meaning behind it.
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We see Katara's emotions and her intent telegraphed clearly in these instances.
In Book 1, we see her worry for this strange bald boy who fell out of an iceberg, which melts away to relief and a hint of curiosity once she ascertains that he isn't dead.
In B2 we once again see worry, but this time it's more frantic. Her relationship with Aang is much dearer to her heart now, and he is in much worse shape. When we see the relief on her face this time, it manifests in a broad smile, rather than a small grin. We can clearly grasp that her feelings for Aang have evolved.
In B3, we step away from the rule because Aang isn't on the verge of death or unconsciousness for the first time. It is also the first time in a situation like this that Aang isn't seeing Katara from below, but they are on equal footing. I attribute this to symbolising change of pace for their relationship.
The biggest obstacle in the development of Katara and Aang's romance was the war, which endangered both their lives. Due to this, there was a hesitance to start their relationship. In previous scenes that focused this much on Aang and Katara's mutual gaze, Aang was always in a near dead, or at least 'dead adjacent' position. This is is a very harsh reminder that he may very well die in the war, and the reason Katara, who has already endured great loss, is hesitant to allow her love for him to be made... corporeal.
However, now Aang is standing, portraying that the possibily of Katara losing him has been reduced greatly with the coming of peace, the greatest obstacle has been removed, and Katara is the one to initiate this kiss.
Concurrently, Katara's expression here does not portray worry or relief at all, because she has no need to be worried or relieved. No, Katara is blushing, looking directly at Aang with an expression that can be described as a knowing smile. I'd argue that this description is accurate, because Katara knows that she is about to finally kiss the boy she loves.
Ultimately, Katara is the one who initiates the kiss that actually begins her and Aang's romantic relationship.
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Kataang's appeal to women is reflected in how Katara is almost always the one to initiate physical affection with Aang. With only 3 exceptions, one of which, the Ember Island kiss being immediately shown by the narrative as wrong, and another being a daydream due to Aang's sleep deptivation. The first moment of outwardly romantic affection between Aang and Katara is her kissing his cheek. And their last kiss in the show is also initiated by Katara.
I won't falsely state that Kataang is the perfect representation of the female gaze. Not only because the storyline has its imperfections, as every piece of media has. But also because I simply belive that the concept of the female gaze is too varied and nebulous to be fully expressed. With this essay, I simply wanted to prove that Kataang is most certainly not the embodiment of catering to the male gaze either. In fact it is quite far from that.
The aspects of Kataang that fall more towards embodying the female gaze don't just appeal to women. There's a reason a lot of vocal Kataang shippers you find are queer. The mutual emotional connection between Katara and Aang is something we don't have to identify with, but something we are still able to emphasise with. It's a profound mutual connection that we watch unfold from both perspectives that sort of tracends more physical, gendered aspects of many onscreen romances. You just need to see instead of simply look.
✨️Bonus round✨️
Aang under the gaze
This started off as a simple part of the previous essay, however I decided I wanted to give it it's own focus, due to the whole discourse around Aang being a wish-fullfilling self insert for Bryke or for men in genral. I always found this baffling considering how utterly... unappealing Aang is to the male gaze.
It may surprise some of you that men are also subjected to the male gaze. Now sadly, this has nothing to do with the male gaze of the male gays. No, when male characters, usually the male protagonist, are created to cater to the male gaze, they aren't portrayed as sexually desirable passive objects, but they embody the active/masculine aide of the binary Laura Mulvey spoke of in the quote I shared at the beginning of this essay.
The protagonist under the male gaze is not the object of desire but rather a character men and boys would desire to be.
They're usually the pinnacle of traditional, stereotypical masculinity.
Appearance wise: muscular but too broad, chiseled facial features, smouldering eyes, depending on the genre wearing something classy or some manner of armour.
Personalitywise they may vary from the cool, suave James Bond type, or a more hotblooded forceful "Alpha male" type. However these are minor differences in the grand scheme of things. The basis is that this protagonist embodies some manner of idealised man. He's strong, decisive, domineering, in control, intimidating... you get the gist. Watch nearly any action movie. There's also a strong focus placed on having sway or power over others. Often men for the male gaze are presented as wealthy, having power and status. Studies (that were proved to be flawed in the way the data was gathered, I believe) say that womem value resources in potential male partners, so it's not surprising that the ideal man has something many believe would attract "mates". [Ew I hated saying that].
Alright, now let's see how Aang holds up to these standards.
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Well... um...
Aang does have power, he is the Avatar. However, he is often actually ignored, blown off and otherwise dismissed, either due to his age or his personality and ideals being seen as unrealistic and foolish. Additionally, Aang, as a member of a culture lost a century ago, is also often posited as an outsider, singled out as weak, his beliefs touted as the reason his people died out and.
Physically, Aang doesn't look like the male protagonist archetype, either. He isn't your average late teens to brushing up against middle aged. Aang is very much a child and this is reflected in his soft round features, large eyes and short, less built body. This is not a build most men would aspire to. Now, he still has incredible physical prowess, due to his bending. But I'm not sure how many men are desperate to achieve the "pacifist 12 year old" build to attract women.
Hailing from a nation that had quite an egalitarian system, Aang wouldn't have conventional ideas surrounding leadership, even if he does step up into it later. He also has little in the way of possessions, by choice.
As for Aang's personality, well...
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I mean I wouldn't exactly call him your average James Bond or superhero. Aang is mainly characterised through his kindness, empathy, cheerful nature and occasional childishness (which slowly is drained as the trauma intesifies. yay.)
Aang is very unwilling to initiate violence, which sets him aside from many other male protagonists of his era, who were champing at the bit to kick some ass. He values nature, art, dance and fun. He's in tune with his emotions. He tries to desecalate situations before he starts a fight.
Some would say many of Aang's qualities could be classified as feminine. While the other main male characters, Zuko and Sokka try to embody their respective concepts of the ideal man (tied to their fathers), Aang seems content with how he presents and acts. He feels no need to perform masculinity as many men do, choosing to be true to his emotions and feelings.
These "feminine" qualities often attract ridicule from other within the show. He is emasculated or infantiliased as a form of mockery multiple times, the most notable examples being the Ember Island play and Ozai tauntingly referring to him as a "little boy". Hell, even certain Aang haters have participated in this, for example saying that he looks like a bald lesbian.
I'd even argue that, in his relationships with other characters, Aang often represents the passive/feminine. Especially towards Zuko, Aang takes on an almost objectified role of a trophy that can be used to purchase Ozai's love. [Zuko's dehumanisation of others needs to be discussed later, but it isn't surprising with how he was raised and a huge part of his arc is steerring away from that way of thinking.]
Aang and Zuko almost embody certain streotypes about relationships, the forceful, more masculine being a literal pursuer, and the gentler, more feminine being pusued.
We often see Aang framed from Zuko's perspective, creating something akin to the mutual gaze of Katara and Aang, hinting at the potential of Zuko and Aang becoming friends, a concept that is then voiced explicitly in The Blue Spirit.
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However, unlike Katara, Zuko is unable to empathise with Aang at first, still seeing Aang as more of an object than a person. We have here an interesting imbalance of Aang seeing Zuko but Zuko meerly looking at Aang.
There is a certain aspect of queer metaphor to Zuko's pursuit of Aang, but I fear I've gotten off topic.
Wrapping this long essay up, I want to reiterate that I'm not saying that Zutara isn't popular with women. Most Zutara shippers I've encountered are women. And most Kataang shippers I've encountered are... also women. Because fandom spaces are occupied predominantly by women.
I'm not exactly making a moral judgement on any shippers either, or to point at Kataang and go: "oh, look girls can like this too. Stop shipping Zutara and come ship this instead."
I want to point out that the juxtaposition of Zutara and Kataang as respectively appealing to the feminine and masculine, is a flawed endeavour because neither ship does this fully.
The concept of Kataang being a purely male fantasy is also flawed due to the points I've outlied in this post.
Are there going to be male Kataang shippers who self insert onto Aang and use it for wish fulfilment? Probably. Are there going to be male Zutara shippers who do the same? Also probably.
In the end, our interpretation of media, particularly visual mediums like film are heavily influenced by our own biases, interests, beliefs andmost importantly our... well, our gaze. The creators can try to steer us with meaningful shots and voiced thought, directing actors or animating a scene to be a certain way, but ultimately we all inevitably draw our own conclusions.
A fan of Zutara can argue that Kataang is the epitome of catering to the male gaze, while Zutara is the answer to women everywhere's wishes.
While I can just as easily argue the exact opposite.
It really is just a matter of interpretation. What is really interesting, is what our gaze says about us. What we can see of ourselves when the subject gazes back at us.
I may want to analyse how Zutara caters to the male gaze in some instances, if those of you who manage to slog through this essay enjoy the subject matter.
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wastemanjohn · 3 months ago
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i'm not at all bothered about people disliking john because entirely valid tbh and someone else's opinion changes nothing for me. i just think the militant anti john brigade - that is, those that make up textually unsupported and entirely leftfield reasons to dislike him - are really missing out.
the thing is, we've got an absolute buffet of an interesting and irreparably fucked up character here. we could debate the absolute Horrors of john winchester and his a+ parenting for days on end literally from the two seconds of screentime he had. because he does suck! it's totally fair to say that canon john is selfish, neglectful and at best emotionally abusive. now i'm defo no apologist (see username) - but he's also the furthest thing from a cardboard shitty abusive dad. there is serious context for the things he does and the way he thinks.
john's life was hell man. his own dad, for all he knew, abandoned him. he went to war young and almost certainly came back with ptsd. these things alone don't exactly make life easy but then your wife burns to death on a ceiling and you're left a widower and a single dad to a baby and a pre schooler before you're even thirty? then discover that it couldn't even be a plain old housefire but no - there is actual Evil out there and you and your children are not safe and never will be?
the desire for revenge is understandable. the desire to do stupid and paradoxically dangerous things to protect your children are understandable. right, good or healthy? no. but understandable. and that's what makes a good sympathetic character.
basically i think a lot of negative readings of john exaggerate the badness of his intentions and ignore his humanity. it's also understandable that john is not a beacon of emotional regulation. it's also understandable that he cant always balance being emotionally and physically there for his kids with Fighting The Horrors. pour alcohol misuse onto this dumpster fire and you're not getting a perfect person, or a perfect parent. you're getting a broken human who was focused only on keeping his kids safe, alive, protected, and able to protect themselves. sure, he had tunnel vision about it. he did it very badly. he controlled sam as the youngest and parentified dean as the oldest. he made sam feel misunderstood and smothered. he made dean feel completely responsible for the welfare of his brother and dependent on john's praise and approval as his second in command.
john fucked his kids up IMMEASURABLY. he thought he was doing the right thing.
also - remember young john? remember how he's softly spoken and loves his cars and adores his girlfriend and respects his fucking elders and, to quote mary, "believes in happy endings"? remember the doting dad we see for like a minute in the pilot? is that not meant to show us that, had his life not taken the turn it did - he would likely have been an entirely different person? how is the tragedy of that not also completely DELICIOUS??
so why homophobic john? why john who beat dean senseless regularly? why john who gave no shits and wanted his boys to be miserable? why these embellishments that make him someone else, someone with nothing good inside of him, when what canon gives us is so much better?
come on guys. the tragic messy sad angry selfish HUMAN john we got in the show is an absolute treat. why are we making him an irredeemable, unfeeling and uncomplicated asshole who doesn't give a shit about his boys. ya'll saw him spending a good 50% of his screen time crying about how much he loved them right? and sam and dean KNEW he loved them. they also knew, or in dean's case came to realise, that he was a terrible father in many ways. real life is messy and nuanced. families are messy and nuanced. and imo spn got this so right.
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quietwingsinthesky · 2 years ago
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zachariah is the best character on this show actually
#he's so funny!!!!#also supernatural always coming in with the 'character suddenly says something quiet and devastating and then moves on'#even for him#'Everybody's laughing at me!' (pause and then quieter) 'and they're right to do it.'#zach my man i will dig into your silly little psyche#i mean okay you don't really have to dig he lays it out right there#he was top dog and then failing to grab the winchesters knocked him down.#and like. we know what getting knocked down in heaven means. he knows what it means.#how much can he fail before they toss him right in the chair where he sent castiel once.#no. look. listen to me. i'm not crazy. he's fascinating to me okay.#naomi is fascinating in the later seasons for similar reasons but she has different-ish motives. on the whole she's here for the collective#and zach is certainly serving heaven's interests. zero doubt in that. but like. he is also definitely serving his own.#he wants to be top of the food chain. useful to michael. because that's one of the few positions in heaven that means you get power.#and he takes it out on the people under him! he says it himself! he's petty!#resorts to physical violence to get sam & dean to do what he wants like they are stress balls.#(stands in front of them and goes >:) im gonna fuck ur mom. who else is doing it like him.)#im getting distracted my point is like. zachariah is probably the angel the most aware of the position he's in.#different than his awareness of like. his role in the story like raphael or lucifer or michael. but his role in the system?#he understands that. he knows how to play that game very well to make himself the most powerful respected angel in the room.#heaven cult my beloved. zachariah would sell anyone out for a corn chip and a promotion.#because of course he would. why wouldn't he. him looking around at other angels thinking: well why wouldn't you. i have to get there first.#tl;dr he's so funny. literally smiling every time he's on screen im gonna miss him when he dies.#zachariah spn#spn#(no okay wait not done. all of that there. all his posturing and making sure he's in the top position.#and despite that. joshua walks on screen. says 'scram' and zach Knows he can't do shit about it and leaves. like!!!!#THAT'S IT! THESIS. DOESN'T MATTER HOW HIGH IN THE OFFICE HE IS. ONE SLAP FROM UP TOP AND HE HAS TO BACK OFF!!!#THERE IS NO WINNING THIS GAME! THERE IS ONLY PLAYING IT AS BEST YOU CAN UNTIL SOMEONE FLIPS THE FUCKING BOARD!!!)#now im done <3
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is he autistic?
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submit your own characters here to be featured!
reason: Firstly, he only eats like, two foods (burgers and pie and *occasionally* things adjacent to those) for the entire show, which is to say, he only eats like two foods for fifteen years straight. The fact that he's repulsed by certain foods (mostly vegetables) is something that is brought up multiple times, and while it's usually played off as a joke that he's picky or "childish" about his food, it's still canon.
Secondly, he is canonically very intense about his interests, to the point where they seem like special interests. Actual quote from season 14 episode 20, said by Sam: "You're always calling me a geek, but you know every word to every Led Zeppelin song backwards and forwards. You can discuss in detail every major rock drummer between '67 and '84."
Thirdly, he has very strange speech patterns, most notably his tendency to, in almost every conversation he has, make a reference to something pop-culture related, a movie he likes, pretty much anything he can make a reference to. Most people around him do not understand these references and/or find them annoying, but for whatever reason (autism), they are a consistent part of his lexicon.
I need you to know that this was originally over 400 words long. I had to omit some details to make it a reasonable length. That's how autistic this guy is.
submitted by @kubb-is-a-swedish-lawn-game
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