#i like dean as a character he’s very interesting
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skarabrae-stone · 3 days ago
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Yeah, I think with Cattermole it's less class snobbery than like... suitability snobbery? Intelligence snobbery? I think Cattermole's class sounds similar to that of other students, but she's clearly not SUITED to academia, and therefore doesn't deserve to be there. Like, her mind isn't fit for it. And I think that fits in with the sense of bio-essentialism that I definitely get from Sayers-- Gaudy Night has a lot of discussions of women's nature vs man's nature, but there's also very much a sense of intelligence as an inherent quality that you either have or you don't, or that you only have a certain amount of. When Harriet is talking with the Dean about Mary Stokes/Attwood, the Dean says that Stokes "had a head like a day-old chick. Very precocious, but no staying power"-- as if Mary had a certain amount of intelligence that she basically used up and ran out of. I definitely agree that the "provincial university" statement is meant to be demeaning, and show that Cattermole isn't in her proper place.
I think the "one's proper job" is another aspect of combined classism/bio-essentialism, but I also think Sayers has a point if you don't carry it too far. I certainly don't hold with the idea that there's one job that a person is fitted for by birth/class/intelligence, and I also think the idea that you can't make a fundamental mistake about your "proper job" is foolishly simplistic. But I also think that there is merit in the idea that you can't force yourself into liking or being good at a role simply because you want to like it/be good at it, or because you think you ought to. Plenty of people make themselves unhappy by trying to be someone they're not (again, not in the class sense, but in the sense of trying to change who they are as a person in order to mold themselves to someone else's expectations)-- which obviously is not the whole of what Miss De Vine is getting at in that conversation, but it's the part I actually agree with. :D
The class thing is also interesting to me because at the same time that Sayers has a horror of social climbers, she also has Parker marry Lady Mary, which would definitely have been seen as social climbing by outsiders. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that police of that time were considered more working class-- and though Parker is Chief Inspector, I seem to remember that he worked his way up the ranks, rather than being appointed. I guess maybe it's different because we know that Parker is doing it for love rather than status?
And then there's Bunter, who is extremely important to Wimsey, but is of course still "just" the valet-- but he's obviously intelligent, and Harriet and Wimsey both clearly have a lot of respect for him. Wimsey seems like he doesn't care very much about class at all, and there are several times when he jokes about Bunter being the one who insists on the formalities due to their respective ranks. Gerald and Helen are much more precious about rank than Wimsey, and are portrayed as being unreasonable and snobbish. So it seems like there's a certain level where Sayers thinks the classes SHOULD mingle, and there's no problem with it-- but then obviously, the Annies of her stories aren't included in that.
I wonder if Sayers' background would lead her to see those of her own class as more or less equal with the higher ranks, whereas she might have seen those in the classes below hers as more markedly inferior. Or maybe she intended an anti-classist message through characters like Parker and Wimsey, but her own biases might have blinded her to the prejudices she was reproducing through the way she portrayed side characters.
Edit: I almost forgot Sayers' hatred of socialism/communism, which is more apparent in some of the other books (I think Clouds of Witness and Strong Poison)-- so that's another aspect of the whole "people should know their proper place/do their proper jobs" thing.
I just re-read Gaudy Night, and it's interesting how it feels very relevant and very dated at the same time. There's so much discussion about a woman's "place" and whether a woman can (or should) still have an intellectual life/job outside her husband if she's married, and it seems like many of the academic women in the story feel on some level that they have to choose one or the other. On the one hand, this debate, again, feels very dated in an era where most women do have jobs regardless of whether they're married or not. On the other hand, women still are frequently expected to put their families before their jobs, while men are usually not; and women are still frequently expected to sacrifice their own careers and interests for the sake of their families, while men are usually not.
The "question" of whether women belong in academia no longer seems to be a question in mainstream culture, but women in academia still don't get the same amount of respect or opportunities as men. And while British and American society no longer demands that unmarried women remain celibate, I think there is still a great deal of discomfort at the idea of women who choose to remain single, and with the idea of voluntary celibacy in general.
It's also interesting that the Senior Members of the college (all women) seem to more or less jump to the conclusion that the college "poltergeist" is expressing some kind of psycho-sexual frustration born of celibacy and academic isolation, when in fact it's someone seeking revenge. It seems like even though these women have been in academia/running the college for decades, they still harbor some insecurity over the legitimacy of their profession and lifestyle.
And then, of course, there are the casual mentions of eugenics and the one woman who thinks execution is wrong and that murderers should be used for scientific experiments instead (because that's more humane somehow??). There's also the instance where one of the porters (who is otherwise very likeable) says that Britain needs "a Hitler" who will put women in their proper place. Interesting times...
Idk, Gaudy Night fascinates me because there's SO MUCH going on in it that even on my second read, I think there's a lot that I'm probably missing. The various philosophical debates in it make me really curious about what Dorothy Sayers' own views were.
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keen-eye · 26 days ago
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Hello, Dean 🫵
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adreamoverlife · 10 months ago
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Is this a safe place to admit I don’t really like the way Castiel is often talked about in relation to destiel or will I be crucified for the second time
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sammygender · 5 months ago
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so many people can’t conceptualise emotional neglect as anything other than ‘my parents were cold and distant and never talked about feelings with me’, and this, while being just a general awful problem of course, is also what leads to so much john winchester mischaracterisation. in this essay i will
#like. it can also be#a parent who you’re close to who is actually extremely emotional and explosive and reactive#and via forcing you to look after their emotional needs and spilling their problems all over you also teaches you that your feelings qrs re#unimportant and that you’re unimportant. even if they dont necessarily mean to or they dont with their words!#anyway i’m sure john winchester was a mix of the two#but my point is like. God this applies to so much actually#there’s this incredibly pervasive idea that damaging parenting has to be like. i dunno. distant somehow#your parents don’t love you. you’re not close to your parents#and obviously that IS damaging but it’s not the only way a parental relationship can be damaging… far from it#and a lot of what makes john so interesting to me is he DOES love the boys. of course he does#and he isn’t some hyper repressed incredibly macho figure either like some people characterise him#he’s warm with the boys when we see him in s1. sure he turns all his emotions into anger but it’s always very clear he Has deep emotions.#everything he does is powered by ‘love’#(theoretically).#like. hes obviously close with dean. he even has strong ideals about parenting when he starts off (see 70s era john disgusted at how future#john actually raised them lol).#and he’s still extremely abusive and neglectful and damages sam and dean soooo much. like. all that can coexist#and it’s such a disservice to flatten his character and pretend it doesn’t#plus it just offends me. like come on.#idk i guess a lot of people like to project their own bad experiences onto john and it’s not like i’m saying they shouldn’t do that#but. characterisation wise#he’s awful in a very specific way#spn#john winchester#oliver talks
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flugame-mp3 · 7 months ago
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SEASON NINE FINALE WAS WILD. I HAVE MANY MANY THOUGHTS. WHAT JUST HAPPENED. A FUCKING ROLLER COASTER FOR SURE
#theo.txt#I DID NOT REALIZE DEMON DEAN WAS NOW#DESPITE KNOWING THAT YEAH HE LOOKS ABOUT THAT AGE OR WHATEVER IN THE SCREENCAPS IVE SEEN#WHEN I TELL YOU I CHEERED AT THE END WHEN I REALIZED WHAT WAS GOING ON!!!!! i love crowley pulling some bullshit at the last minute. classi#king of hell shit#and in the end scene where it's just mark sheppard's stellar monologue and the EYELID NOISE... chefs kiss that got me so hyped for s10#i do think this finale got me really interested to see what s10 brings generally#AND DOESNT ROWENA SHOW UP THIS SEASON?? WE LOVE TO SEE IT IM EXCITED#rip gadreel though he was an interesting character. sad he had to die just to prove a point and blow up a cell. but a fitting end ig?? :(#i also loved cas's plan at the end though with the angel radio thing. get his ass lol#but also god i felt so bad for him. can the narrative give him a fucking break. he is trying his god damn best#the curse of free will and the curse of loving. painful but you do it anyway. castiel when i get my hands on you#also if i am not mistaken... the shot parallels to sams first death with deans death... we cry#IS SAM JUST GONNA BE ALL ALONE NOW?? I ASSUME CROWLEY TAKES DEAN WITH HIM?#OH NO 😭😭😭 SAM BABY IM SO SORRY#not that he doesnt always have a rough time but he has a particularly excruciating season. someone give this man a hug#i feel for him very deeply#'i lied' 'ain't that a bitch?' got me. i hate them. SOOOO brothers.#anyway#AAAAAAAAUGH#also why was metatron the worlds number one destiel shipper at the end of the season here im DEAD. MULTIPLE pieces of dialogue hes like 'yo#did it all for HUMANITY... for your ONE HUMAN of CHOICE... the HUMAN who motivates you...' JUST CALL HIM A SLUR WHY DONT YOU#im dead#idk what the general community thoughts are on that episode but i did enjoy it. wild fucking ride from start to finish#s9 wasnt my favorite and definitely did not hook me in the second quarter for some reason. def was not as compelling as like s7 for me but#the points that i liked i really enjoyed#loved sam resorting to summoning crowley. he wants his ass dead SO bad. i think sam deserves the world after the shit he was put through#this season#anyway overall. i am gnawing on the walls and pacing around my room at incredible speeds. what is UP with this show.#man.
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incesthemes · 1 year ago
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ok what i really like about the family dynamics presented in spn is that dean, despite being a cocky, sarcastic, emotionally stunted bastard, is the mediator and the family man. honestly it reminds me a lot of my own family, so the seeming contradiction makes perfect sense because i'm so familiar with it. he has next to no emotional intelligence, but he's unwaveringly devoted to his family and will do anything to keep them safe, even going so far as to sacrifice himself emotionally and physically for john and sam. it's a very unique brand of selflessness that i don't see portrayed all that often because the "mediator" characters are usually the more emotional and kind-hearted characters (take, for example, piper in charmed)
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mybrainproblems · 2 years ago
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brain is just mii waiting room music as i consider where i've ended up in my supernatural fandom journey
#that is to say: a berenscrit dabbfan and glynn stan who considers s1-3 kripke and dabb era to be the best eras of spn#which means i'm sad bloodlines wasn't picked up as separate from spn and think it's a blessing in disguise that wayward wasn't greenlit#also i'm going to be watching an adaptation of a YA novel that i have zero interest in just bc glynn is the showrunner....#i wasn't in the fandom when wayward wasn't picked up but everything i've heard really sounds like it could've been a firefly s2 situation#i feel like the issues with kaia's character are well-understood at this point but killing off missouri to make her a spirit guide(???)#for patience is uh. questionable. and depending on how it was handled could have fallen badly into the magical negro trope#the shitty thing is that we all know it wasn't picked up bc execs thought an all-female cast with middle aged women as leads#wasn't marketable to a larger audience and that part is bullshit but i think maybe it was best it didn't go forward as it was planned#like unless they were intending to have a very diverse writers room i cannot imagine what berens might have come up with#the creation and treatment of kaia as a character says a lot and i think the blame falls more on him than dabb or other writers bc she was#created with the intention of being on the show he would be showrunner for so i think he had more independence/less oversight#dabb is complicit tho and so are the rest of the writers tbh since it doesn't seem like anyone saw any huge issues with it#also: davy perez wrote a better confession in stuck in the middle with you vs 15x18 and does not get nearly enough respect for it 🙄#tbh *none* of the other writers get enough respect like my god you're gonna stan berens and NOT ms meredith glynn????#thee all-rounder and Understander of late seasons and top 5 writers on the show *ever*?#glynn could do 05x04 the end but bedlund could never do regarding dean#hashtag Takes that would get you cancelled in 2021#spn
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cassael · 9 months ago
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You know . I've mentioned this at some point on here before but I've heard jo was created as a character that's meant to be ThE fEmAlE dean and I really really don't see it.
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wilcze-kudly · 3 months ago
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Hey so can we like stop with the "Zutara is for the girls and Kataang is for the boys" thing. It's silly and it's breakdancing just on the edge of gender essentialism.
The assumption that there is something inherent to Zutara that appeals predominantly to women and Kataang that appeals predominantly to men is dishonest because every ship can have appeal to all genders.
The discussion of the "female gaze" in Zutara and the "male gaze" in Kataang is also redundant. I enjoy dissecting the concept of "the gaze", however it is important to note that the "female gaze" doesn't have a set definition or grouping of conventions it adheres to. Lisa French,  Dean of RMIT University’s School of Media and Communication says:
“The female gaze is not homogeneous, singular or monolithic, and it will necessarily take many forms... The aesthetic approaches, experiences and films of women directors are as diverse as their individual life situations and the cultures in which they live. The "female' gaze” is not intended here'to denote a singular concept. There' are many gazes."
Now excuse me as I put on my pretentious humanistics student hat.
Kataang's appeal to women and the female gaze
Before I start, I want to note that the female gaze is still a developing concept
There are very few female film directors and writers, and most of them are white. The wants and desires of women of colour, the demographic Katara falls into, are still wildly underepresented. Additionally, the concept of the female gaze had many facets, due to it being more focused on emotional connections rather than physical appearance as the male gaze usually is. Which means that multiple male archetypes fall into the category of "for the female gaze".
The "female gaze" can be best described as a response to the "male gaze", which was first introduced by Laura Mulvey in her paper: "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema" , however the term "male gaze" itself was not used in the paper.
Mulvey brought up the concept of the female character and form as the passive, objectified subject to the active voyeuristic male gaze, which the audience is encouraged to identify, usually through the male character.
To quote her:
"In a world ordered by sexual imbalance', pleasure' in looking has been split between active'/male' and passive/female'. The determining male gaze' projects its fantasy onto the female' figure', which is styled accordingly."
Mulvey also brings up the concept of scopopfillia (the term being introduced by Freud), the concept of deriving sexual gratification from both looking and being looked at. This concept has strong overtones of voyeurism, exhibitionism and narcissism, placing forth the idea that these overtones are what keeps the male viewer invested. That he is able to project onto the male character, therefore being also able to possess the passive female love interest.
However, it's important to note that Mulvey's essay is very much a product of its times, focused on the white, heterosexual and cisgender cinema of her time. She also drew a lot of inspiration from Freud's questionable work, including ye ole penis envy. Mulvey's paper was groundbreaking at the time, but we can't ignore how it reinforces the gender binary and of course doesn't touch on the way POC, particularly women of colour are represented in film.
In her paper, Mulvey fails to consider anyone who isn't a white, cis, heterosexual man or woman. With how underrepresented voices of minorities already are both in media and everyday life, this is something that we need to remember and strive to correct.
Additionally Mulvey often falls into gender essentialism, which I previously mentioned at the beginning of this post. Funny how that keeps coming up
"Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema" started a very interesting and important conversation, and I will still be drawing from certain parts of it, however huge swathes of this text have already become near archaic, as our culture and relationship with media evolves at an incredible pace.
And as filmaking evolves, so does our definition of the male and female gaze. So let's see what contemporary filmakers say of it.
In 2016, in her speech during the Toronto International Film Festival , producer of the TV series Transparent, Jill Soloway says:
“Numero uno, I think the Female Gaze is a way of “feeling seeing”. It could be thought of as a subjective camera that attempts to get inside the protagonist, especially when the protagonist is not a Chismale. It uses the frame to share and evoke a feeling of being in feeling, rather than seeing �� the characters. I take the camera and I say, hey, audience, I’m not just showing you this thing, I want you to really feel with me.
[Chismale is Soloway's nickname for cis males btw]
So the term "female gaze" is a bit of a misnomer, since it aims to focus on capturing the feelings of characters of all genders. It's becoming more of a new way of telling stories in film, rather than a way to cater to what white, cisgender, heterosexual women might find attractive in a man.
Now, Aang is the decided protagonist of the show, however, Atla having somewhat of an ensemble cast leads to the perspective shifting between different characters.
In the first episode of atla, we very much see Katara's perspective of Aang. She sees him trapped in the iceberg, and we immediately see her altruism and headstrong nature. After she frees Aang, we are very much first subjected to Katara's first impressions of him, as we are introduced to his character. We only see a sliver of Aang's perspective of her, Katara being the first thing he sees upon waking up.
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We see that she is intrigued and curious of him, and very excited about his presence. She is endeared and amused by his antics. She is rediscovering her childish side with his help. She is confiding in him about her own trauma surrounding the Fire Nation's genocide of the Southern Waterbenders. She is willing to go against her family and tribe ans leave them behind to go to the Northern Water Tribe with Aang. We also see her determination to save him when he is captured.
As the show moves on and the plot kicks into gear, we do shift more into Aang's perspective. We see his physical attraction to her, and while we don't see Katara's attraction quite as blatantly, there are hints of her interest in his appearance.
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This is where we get deeper into the concept of Aang and Katara's mutual interest and attraction for one another. While her perspective is more subtle than most would like, Katara is not purely an object of Aang's desire, no more than he is purely an object of her desire.
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When analysing this aspect of Katara and Aang's relationship, I couldn't help but be reminded of how Célene Sciamma's Portrait of a lady on fire (in my personal opinion, one of the best studies of the female gaze ever created) builds up its romance, and how it places a strong emphasis on the mutuality of the female gaze.
Portrait of a lady on fire's cinematography is very important to the film. We see the world through the perspective of our protagonist, a painter named Marianne. We also see her love interest, Héloïse, the woman whom she is hired to paint a portrait of, through Marianne's lense.
We see Marianne analyse Héloïse's appearance, her beauty. We look purely through Marianne's eyes at Héloïse for a good part of the movie, but then, something unexpected happens. Héloïse looks back. At Marianne, therefore, in some way, also at the audience. While Marianne was studying Héloïse, Héloïse was studying Marianne.
We never shift into Héloïse's perspective, but we see and understand that she is looking back at us. Not only through her words, when she for example comments on Marianne's mannerisms or behaviours, but also hugely through cinematography and acting of the two amazing leads. (Noémie Merlant as Marianne and Adèle Haenel as Héloïse. They truly went above and beyond with their performances.)
This is a huge aspect of the female gaze's implementation in the film. The camera focuses on facial expressions, eyes and body language, seeking to convey the characters' emotions and feelings. There's a focus on intense, longing and reciprocated eye contact (I have dubbed this the Female Gays Gaze.). The characters stand, sit or lay facing each other, and the camera rarely frames one of them as taller than the other, which would cause a sense of power imbalance.
The best way to describe this method of flimaking is wanting the audience to see the characters, rather than to simply look at them. Sciamma wants us to empathise, wants us to feel what they are feeling, rather than view them from a distance. They are to be people, characters, rather than objects.
Avatar, of course, doesn't display the stunning and thoughtful cinematography of Portrait of a Lady on Fire, and Katara and Aang's relationship, while incredibly important, is only a part of the story rather than the focus of it.
However, the 'Kataang moments' we are privy to often follow a similar convention to the ones between Marianne and Héloïse that I mentioned prior.
Theres a lot of shots of Katara and Aang facing each other, close ups on their faces, particularly eyes, as they gaze at one another.
Katara and Aang are often posited as on equal grounds, the camera not framing either of them as much taller and therefore more powerful or important than the other. Aang is actually physically shorter than Katara, which flies in the face in usual conventions of the male fantasy. (I will get to Aang under the male gaze later in this essay)
And even in scenes when Aang is physically shown as above Katara, particularly when he's in the Avatar state, Katara is the one to pull him down, maintaining their relationships as equals.
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Despite most of the show being portrayed through Aang's eyes, Katara is not a passive object for his gaze, and therefore our gaze, to rest upon. Katara is expressive, and animated. As an audience, we are made aware that Katara has her own perspective. We are invited to take part in it and try to understand it.
Not unlike to Portrait of a Lady on Fire, there is a lot of focus placed on mannerisms and body language, an obvious example being Katara often playing with her hair around Aang, telegraphing a shy or flustered state. We also see her express jealousy over Aang, her face becoming sour, brows furrowed. On one occasion she even blew a raspberry, very clearly showing us, the audience, her displeasure with the idea of Aang getting attention from other girls.
Once again, this proves that Katara is not a passive participant in her own relationship, we are very clealry shown her perspective of Aang. Most of the scenes that hint at her and Aang's focus on their shared emotions, rather than, for example, Katara's beauty.
Even when a scene does highlight her physical appearance, it is not devoid of her own thoughts and emotions. The best example of this being the scene before the party in Ba Sing Se where we see Katara's looking snazzy in her outfit. Aang compliments her and Katara doesn't react passively, we see the unabashed joy light up her face, we can tell what she thinks of Aang's comment.
In fact, the first moment between Katara and Aang sets this tone of mutual gaze almost perfectly. Aang opens his eyes, and looks at Katara. Katara looks back.
There is, once again, huge focus on their eyes in this scene, the movement of Aang's eyelids right before they open draws out attention to that part of his face. When the camera shows us Katara, is zooms in onto her expression as it changes, her blinking also drawing attention to her wide and expressive eyes.
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This will not be the first time emphasis is placed on Katara and Aang's mutual gaze during a pivotal moment in the show. Two examples off the top of my head would be the Ends of B2 and B3 respevtively. When Katara brings Aang back to life, paralleling the first time they laid eyes on one another. And at the end of the show, where their gaze has a different meaning behind it.
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We see Katara's emotions and her intent telegraphed clearly in these instances.
In Book 1, we see her worry for this strange bald boy who fell out of an iceberg, which melts away to relief and a hint of curiosity once she ascertains that he isn't dead.
In B2 we once again see worry, but this time it's more frantic. Her relationship with Aang is much dearer to her heart now, and he is in much worse shape. When we see the relief on her face this time, it manifests in a broad smile, rather than a small grin. We can clearly grasp that her feelings for Aang have evolved.
In B3, we step away from the rule because Aang isn't on the verge of death or unconsciousness for the first time. It is also the first time in a situation like this that Aang isn't seeing Katara from below, but they are on equal footing. I attribute this to symbolising change of pace for their relationship.
The biggest obstacle in the development of Katara and Aang's romance was the war, which endangered both their lives. Due to this, there was a hesitance to start their relationship. In previous scenes that focused this much on Aang and Katara's mutual gaze, Aang was always in a near dead, or at least 'dead adjacent' position. This is is a very harsh reminder that he may very well die in the war, and the reason Katara, who has already endured great loss, is hesitant to allow her love for him to be made... corporeal.
However, now Aang is standing, portraying that the possibily of Katara losing him has been reduced greatly with the coming of peace, the greatest obstacle has been removed, and Katara is the one to initiate this kiss.
Concurrently, Katara's expression here does not portray worry or relief at all, because she has no need to be worried or relieved. No, Katara is blushing, looking directly at Aang with an expression that can be described as a knowing smile. I'd argue that this description is accurate, because Katara knows that she is about to finally kiss the boy she loves.
Ultimately, Katara is the one who initiates the kiss that actually begins her and Aang's romantic relationship.
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Kataang's appeal to women is reflected in how Katara is almost always the one to initiate physical affection with Aang. With only 3 exceptions, one of which, the Ember Island kiss being immediately shown by the narrative as wrong, and another being a daydream due to Aang's sleep deptivation. The first moment of outwardly romantic affection between Aang and Katara is her kissing his cheek. And their last kiss in the show is also initiated by Katara.
I won't falsely state that Kataang is the perfect representation of the female gaze. Not only because the storyline has its imperfections, as every piece of media has. But also because I simply belive that the concept of the female gaze is too varied and nebulous to be fully expressed. With this essay, I simply wanted to prove that Kataang is most certainly not the embodiment of catering to the male gaze either. In fact it is quite far from that.
The aspects of Kataang that fall more towards embodying the female gaze don't just appeal to women. There's a reason a lot of vocal Kataang shippers you find are queer. The mutual emotional connection between Katara and Aang is something we don't have to identify with, but something we are still able to emphasise with. It's a profound mutual connection that we watch unfold from both perspectives that sort of tracends more physical, gendered aspects of many onscreen romances. You just need to see instead of simply look.
✨️Bonus round✨️
Aang under the gaze
This started off as a simple part of the previous essay, however I decided I wanted to give it it's own focus, due to the whole discourse around Aang being a wish-fullfilling self insert for Bryke or for men in genral. I always found this baffling considering how utterly... unappealing Aang is to the male gaze.
It may surprise some of you that men are also subjected to the male gaze. Now sadly, this has nothing to do with the male gaze of the male gays. No, when male characters, usually the male protagonist, are created to cater to the male gaze, they aren't portrayed as sexually desirable passive objects, but they embody the active/masculine aide of the binary Laura Mulvey spoke of in the quote I shared at the beginning of this essay.
The protagonist under the male gaze is not the object of desire but rather a character men and boys would desire to be.
They're usually the pinnacle of traditional, stereotypical masculinity.
Appearance wise: muscular but too broad, chiseled facial features, smouldering eyes, depending on the genre wearing something classy or some manner of armour.
Personalitywise they may vary from the cool, suave James Bond type, or a more hotblooded forceful "Alpha male" type. However these are minor differences in the grand scheme of things. The basis is that this protagonist embodies some manner of idealised man. He's strong, decisive, domineering, in control, intimidating... you get the gist. Watch nearly any action movie. There's also a strong focus placed on having sway or power over others. Often men for the male gaze are presented as wealthy, having power and status. Studies (that were proved to be flawed in the way the data was gathered, I believe) say that womem value resources in potential male partners, so it's not surprising that the ideal man has something many believe would attract "mates". [Ew I hated saying that].
Alright, now let's see how Aang holds up to these standards.
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Well... um...
Aang does have power, he is the Avatar. However, he is often actually ignored, blown off and otherwise dismissed, either due to his age or his personality and ideals being seen as unrealistic and foolish. Additionally, Aang, as a member of a culture lost a century ago, is also often posited as an outsider, singled out as weak, his beliefs touted as the reason his people died out and.
Physically, Aang doesn't look like the male protagonist archetype, either. He isn't your average late teens to brushing up against middle aged. Aang is very much a child and this is reflected in his soft round features, large eyes and short, less built body. This is not a build most men would aspire to. Now, he still has incredible physical prowess, due to his bending. But I'm not sure how many men are desperate to achieve the "pacifist 12 year old" build to attract women.
Hailing from a nation that had quite an egalitarian system, Aang wouldn't have conventional ideas surrounding leadership, even if he does step up into it later. He also has little in the way of possessions, by choice.
As for Aang's personality, well...
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I mean I wouldn't exactly call him your average James Bond or superhero. Aang is mainly characterised through his kindness, empathy, cheerful nature and occasional childishness (which slowly is drained as the trauma intesifies. yay.)
Aang is very unwilling to initiate violence, which sets him aside from many other male protagonists of his era, who were champing at the bit to kick some ass. He values nature, art, dance and fun. He's in tune with his emotions. He tries to desecalate situations before he starts a fight.
Some would say many of Aang's qualities could be classified as feminine. While the other main male characters, Zuko and Sokka try to embody their respective concepts of the ideal man (tied to their fathers), Aang seems content with how he presents and acts. He feels no need to perform masculinity as many men do, choosing to be true to his emotions and feelings.
These "feminine" qualities often attract ridicule from other within the show. He is emasculated or infantiliased as a form of mockery multiple times, the most notable examples being the Ember Island play and Ozai tauntingly referring to him as a "little boy". Hell, even certain Aang haters have participated in this, for example saying that he looks like a bald lesbian.
I'd even argue that, in his relationships with other characters, Aang often represents the passive/feminine. Especially towards Zuko, Aang takes on an almost objectified role of a trophy that can be used to purchase Ozai's love. [Zuko's dehumanisation of others needs to be discussed later, but it isn't surprising with how he was raised and a huge part of his arc is steerring away from that way of thinking.]
Aang and Zuko almost embody certain streotypes about relationships, the forceful, more masculine being a literal pursuer, and the gentler, more feminine being pusued.
We often see Aang framed from Zuko's perspective, creating something akin to the mutual gaze of Katara and Aang, hinting at the potential of Zuko and Aang becoming friends, a concept that is then voiced explicitly in The Blue Spirit.
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However, unlike Katara, Zuko is unable to empathise with Aang at first, still seeing Aang as more of an object than a person. We have here an interesting imbalance of Aang seeing Zuko but Zuko meerly looking at Aang.
There is a certain aspect of queer metaphor to Zuko's pursuit of Aang, but I fear I've gotten off topic.
Wrapping this long essay up, I want to reiterate that I'm not saying that Zutara isn't popular with women. Most Zutara shippers I've encountered are women. And most Kataang shippers I've encountered are... also women. Because fandom spaces are occupied predominantly by women.
I'm not exactly making a moral judgement on any shippers either, or to point at Kataang and go: "oh, look girls can like this too. Stop shipping Zutara and come ship this instead."
I want to point out that the juxtaposition of Zutara and Kataang as respectively appealing to the feminine and masculine, is a flawed endeavour because neither ship does this fully.
The concept of Kataang being a purely male fantasy is also flawed due to the points I've outlied in this post.
Are there going to be male Kataang shippers who self insert onto Aang and use it for wish fulfilment? Probably. Are there going to be male Zutara shippers who do the same? Also probably.
In the end, our interpretation of media, particularly visual mediums like film are heavily influenced by our own biases, interests, beliefs andmost importantly our... well, our gaze. The creators can try to steer us with meaningful shots and voiced thought, directing actors or animating a scene to be a certain way, but ultimately we all inevitably draw our own conclusions.
A fan of Zutara can argue that Kataang is the epitome of catering to the male gaze, while Zutara is the answer to women everywhere's wishes.
While I can just as easily argue the exact opposite.
It really is just a matter of interpretation. What is really interesting, is what our gaze says about us. What we can see of ourselves when the subject gazes back at us.
I may want to analyse how Zutara caters to the male gaze in some instances, if those of you who manage to slog through this essay enjoy the subject matter.
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is he autistic?
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submit your own characters here to be featured!
reason: Firstly, he only eats like, two foods (burgers and pie and *occasionally* things adjacent to those) for the entire show, which is to say, he only eats like two foods for fifteen years straight. The fact that he's repulsed by certain foods (mostly vegetables) is something that is brought up multiple times, and while it's usually played off as a joke that he's picky or "childish" about his food, it's still canon.
Secondly, he is canonically very intense about his interests, to the point where they seem like special interests. Actual quote from season 14 episode 20, said by Sam: "You're always calling me a geek, but you know every word to every Led Zeppelin song backwards and forwards. You can discuss in detail every major rock drummer between '67 and '84."
Thirdly, he has very strange speech patterns, most notably his tendency to, in almost every conversation he has, make a reference to something pop-culture related, a movie he likes, pretty much anything he can make a reference to. Most people around him do not understand these references and/or find them annoying, but for whatever reason (autism), they are a consistent part of his lexicon.
I need you to know that this was originally over 400 words long. I had to omit some details to make it a reasonable length. That's how autistic this guy is.
submitted by @kubb-is-a-swedish-lawn-game
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multiverserift · 7 months ago
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An often overlooked aspect of character and relationship building is the question: "How do the characters adress each other?"
It's a surprisingly interesting facet of DS9. I think Worf not once calls Quark by his name, it's always "the Ferengi".
Rom calls him only "Quark", I think, once or twice in the whole run of DS9. Otherwise it's always "Brother" or "my Brother". While Quark uses "my Brother" mostly derogatively, but when things get ugly, he says "Rom!"
[For all people reading this not familiar with Star Trek, another example: When Dean Winchester says "Sammy" you know things are escalating horribly.]
If someone knows an instance where Worf calls Quark by his name, let me know. I am looking for this for years. Maybe I heard it in the german translation.
Sisko is always called "Ben" by colleagues, which looks like an intimate name. Until you realize that he is called "Benjamin" only by his most intimate familiar, Dax. And mockingly and twisted, by Dukat. His full name is his pet name, while the abbreviated version is his more distanced, regular used name. Awesome detail.
Odo even mocks Kira for being interested in Chief O'Brien. Excuse me, I mean "Miles" 😉 In my own comic (not Star Trek related, I'm not brave enough for that), I, as the time of writing this, have only three characters on screen. And I put a lot of thought into the question: How do they adress each other? And even made a bit of fun of it.
Why am I telling you all this? Because Garak and Bashir have a very interesting dynamic. Firstly, there is not one instance of Bashir calling Garak "Elim". Garak calls him "Doctor Bashir" or the classic "my dear Doctor".
Now when we imagine Garak telling Julian how he actually doesn't like him (at all!) and then he says "ok bye. Julian. wink wink 😉" I don't really know if it would feel out of character for Garak. Damn, somebody get Andrew Robinson on the phone and pay him to say it.
If Garak does it slowly with a thick, chocolady sarcastic tone and smirk, I think it would work. But it would also make him VERY vulnerable, no matter how he tries to overplay it. Which would be an interesting scene, to say the least. So it would have the need to feel earned.
It would also be an interesting callback to early twink Bashir, hopelessly in need of human(oid) connection. He forcefeeds Kira the "HEY KIRA I'M JULIAN CALL ME JULIAN! SAY IT!!! JUUUUUUUUULIAN!" stuff very early on. At the end of the Julian and the Federation Ambassadors-Episode, they respect him and call him Julian.
So Garak denying him that indulgence is an interesting trait. And if you're still reading this with me, maybe you agree on that. It's important to notice how our characters adress each other.
Garak denies Julian the un-formality of the first name (what Julian desperately craves), and would propably be shocked or even angry in return, if Julian himself called him "Elim".
What I'm saying it, it would be a big deal. Closing a speech with "Julian" could break that delicate balance and dynamic. Maybe it would work. Maybe it wouldn't.
I would love to hear what Siddig or Andrew think about the question. Or anyone other than the voices debating this in my head. Do you have other examples for this?
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mrcowboydeanwinchester · 1 year ago
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sam not being the main character wasn't really the point of this post. and i mean. learning about characters through their dialogue is an intrinsic part of storytelling and dean doing scenes with people such as charlie, bobby, benny, cas, donna means we learn about their story AND his. and usually in scenes with women, for example, the story is particularly focused on dean - think his violent arc with charlie during his moc era displaying his loss of control and guilt due to the mark, and his conversation with donna is s14 when he's building the ma'lak box, revolving around his emotional wellbeing - this means that he is the main character.
and then you list the characters that have scenes with sam - rowena, dean, jack, jody, etc - and that is not as long a list as the characters you associated with dean. one of those characters IS dean. and arguably sam's relationship with jody is less explored than dean's (dean using her as a maternal figure etc). so if we are measuring being the main character by the amount and depth of developed relationships with other characters, sam is much less so the main character than dean.
and that is what i am critising in my post! i am not being positive here about sam being seen as a side character! in fact, i would argue that sam being pushed to a supporting character rather than the main character understands his lackluster character development to be MORE unjust than saying he is the main character. recognising that dean becomes the main character over sam is recognising that sam's emotional story narratively becomes seen as less important... thus him appearing not to grieve cas. sam is not the silent hero he is the #silenced hero
i support your samgirling wholeheartedly but objectively dean is the main character. to the detriment of our best friend sam. which is the cause for criticism
the start of s13 is wild because it's so focused on dean's grief that sam just. doesn't get any. so maybe he thinks mary's still alive but his mother is still physically unreachable and he has no idea what has happened to her, which is arguably just as mentally draining and horrific a thing to go through. and cas was his closest friend and he's properly dead; sam was at his funeral. sam watched his best friend die but because cas is closer to dean sam cannot mourn him. and i know it's because dean is the Main Character and has the closest emotional ties with everyone and sam is trying to be the one that helps him and is prioritising dean's grief over his own but god. there's literally no room for his sadness he's hiding his grief in his own house
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quietwingsinthesky · 2 years ago
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zachariah is the best character on this show actually
#he's so funny!!!!#also supernatural always coming in with the 'character suddenly says something quiet and devastating and then moves on'#even for him#'Everybody's laughing at me!' (pause and then quieter) 'and they're right to do it.'#zach my man i will dig into your silly little psyche#i mean okay you don't really have to dig he lays it out right there#he was top dog and then failing to grab the winchesters knocked him down.#and like. we know what getting knocked down in heaven means. he knows what it means.#how much can he fail before they toss him right in the chair where he sent castiel once.#no. look. listen to me. i'm not crazy. he's fascinating to me okay.#naomi is fascinating in the later seasons for similar reasons but she has different-ish motives. on the whole she's here for the collective#and zach is certainly serving heaven's interests. zero doubt in that. but like. he is also definitely serving his own.#he wants to be top of the food chain. useful to michael. because that's one of the few positions in heaven that means you get power.#and he takes it out on the people under him! he says it himself! he's petty!#resorts to physical violence to get sam & dean to do what he wants like they are stress balls.#(stands in front of them and goes >:) im gonna fuck ur mom. who else is doing it like him.)#im getting distracted my point is like. zachariah is probably the angel the most aware of the position he's in.#different than his awareness of like. his role in the story like raphael or lucifer or michael. but his role in the system?#he understands that. he knows how to play that game very well to make himself the most powerful respected angel in the room.#heaven cult my beloved. zachariah would sell anyone out for a corn chip and a promotion.#because of course he would. why wouldn't he. him looking around at other angels thinking: well why wouldn't you. i have to get there first.#tl;dr he's so funny. literally smiling every time he's on screen im gonna miss him when he dies.#zachariah spn#spn#(no okay wait not done. all of that there. all his posturing and making sure he's in the top position.#and despite that. joshua walks on screen. says 'scram' and zach Knows he can't do shit about it and leaves. like!!!!#THAT'S IT! THESIS. DOESN'T MATTER HOW HIGH IN THE OFFICE HE IS. ONE SLAP FROM UP TOP AND HE HAS TO BACK OFF!!!#THERE IS NO WINNING THIS GAME! THERE IS ONLY PLAYING IT AS BEST YOU CAN UNTIL SOMEONE FLIPS THE FUCKING BOARD!!!)#now im done <3
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kaleldobrev · 10 months ago
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Dean Winchester Masterlist
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A rebloggable Dean Winchester Masterlist for your viewing and reading pleasure. All stories are Dean Winchester x F. Reader unless otherwise stated
Authors Note: Will update this as I post more stories
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Come on Tiger (823) | You convince Dean to come to bed
You’re Not Normal (College AU) (556) | The reader and Dean become friends in a weird way
Happy Father’s Day (1.2k) |It’s Father’s Day, and the reader has some news to tell Dean
One Day (1.2k) | The reader and Dean talk about their dream life away from hunting
You Don’t Mean That (Demon!Dean) (2.3k) | Sam and the reader finally find Dean and bring him back to the Bunker. Sam says not to talk to Dean before they cure him, but the reader has other plans.
I Love The Way You… (2.9k) | Dean wants to propose to you but isn’t really sure how, so he asks Sam, Jody, and Donna for help
Nightmare Cure (1.6k) | You struggle with nightmares. So Dean comes up with a way to help you.
Autumn Vibes (1.2k) | Dean creates a new recipe in honor of the fall season.
A Date with Dean: Lucky Strikes (5.8k) | Dean and you go bowling for this weeks date night. But decide to make it a little bit more interesting.
The Comforts of a Winchester (2.2k) | Having a nightmare sucks, but at least you have Dean to comfort you.
I Dream of You (1.7k) | Dean dreams of a life with you, but do you?
Pizza, Beer & Zeppelin IV (1.2k) | Dean is surprised to find out what your ideal first date is; and he’s more than happy to oblige
You Deserve Love (2k) | Sometimes Dean needs reassurance that you love him
A Small Part of You (2.3k) | Although Dean is gone, at least you’ll always have a part of him
I Love Her, That’s Why (2.2k) | Dean thought that he was doing a pretty good job at hiding his feelings for you…until Jack started asking questions.
You Make Me Happy (2.3k) | With you doing what he believes to be an incredibly reckless thing on a hunt, Dean finally realizes how much you really mean to him
Old Man (3.4k) | Dean never had a problem with the age gap between you two; not until now any way
Without Hesitation, Yes (2.6k) | After all these years, Dean finally asks you to marry him.
Spitting Image (2.8k) | You think Dean looks like one of your favorite characters. Dean on the other hand…doesn’t see the resemblance.
Come Back Home (4.5k) | After a relationship ending argument that caused you to leave the Bunker, you and Dean haven’t heard from/seen each other in over a year. Are there still sparks between you two? The better question is: Did they ever truly leave in the first place?
Daddy in a Different Way (2.5k) | A simple misunderstanding leads an older woman to believe that you and Jack are together, not you and Dean. But Dean does a “very good job” at clearing things up…But maybe not in the best way.
Pumpkin Muffins (930) | You and Dean decide to try new nicknames for each other
Days Like These (1.4k) | You and Dean decide to spend the day in while it’s raining outside.
Mutual Pining (4.3k) | Dean and you are in love with each other, and it’s obvious to everyone but the two of you
Please Don’t Leave (2k) | Dean’s lucky to have you in his life and honestly doesn’t know what he would ever do without you
New Record (1k) | Dean and you set a new record
Pillow Talk (1.2k) | A common theme of yours and Dean’s pillow talks happen to be about having that white picket fence and apple pie life
Happy Anniversary (Non-Hunters AU) (2k) | You and Dean celebrate your 18-year wedding anniversary
It’s Okay (1.8k) | Dean’s a little jealous that Sam still talks to you and not him
I Finally Get It (2.7k) | Dean thinks he looks like a character from one of your favorite slasher films. You on the other hand…don’t see the resemblance.
Genuinely Happy (506) | You and Dean enjoy a nice car ride together while you admire how genuinely happy he looks
Coming & Going (1.8k) | You want Dean to stay, but will he?
What Are We? (2.1k) | Dean and you do a lot of couple things together but yet…you’re not a couple, and you often wonder why.
Stupidest Person Alive (1.7k) | After a near death experience in which you almost lost Dean, you tell him that you can’t risk losing him again.
The Day Before (743) | Dean comforts you when you get a migraine
Once Mine (Michael!Dean) (1.3k) | Michael thinks him possessing Dean can be a win-win for the both of you
Knew You’d Come Around (Michael!Dean) (1.5k) | Michael’s happy you’ve finally come around
Comfortable? (516) | Falling asleep in Dean’s lap while he’s driving
Would You Like To… (978) | You and Dean have been dating for a few months, and now he’s trying to figure out how to ask you to move into his room
Midnight Confessions (1k) | You and Dean have a “heart-to-heart” conversation on the way to Stanford to pick up Sam
Hauled Up (1.5k) | Sam recruits you to try and convince Dean to stop hauling up in his room
When You’re Ready (1.8k) | A case hits you particularly hard and all you want to do is be alone
Never the Favorite (844) | You finally try and set the record straight
Screw Consciousness (410) | Taking a nap with Dean after a long drive
Things Overheard (2k) | Dean overhears a private conversation between you and Sam
I’ve Got Ya (162) | Dean trying to comfort you after a nightmare
Blush (389) | For the first time in your life, you can say you’ve made Dean Winchester blush
Taste (657) | Dean going down on you in the back of Baby
Under Control (2.3k) | Dean keeps reassuring you that he has everything under control in terms of the Mark. But does he really?
Just Right (1.9k) | Dean hates when you’re sick. Not only can he not kiss his best girl without the possibility of getting sick himself. But you also can’t make one of his favorite things to start off his day: his morning coffee.
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Not the Same (Endverse AU) (4.7k) | Part One | Part Two
Coffee Kisses (3.3k) | Part One | Part Two
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Old Man / Age Gap Universe
Shiny New Toy (Demon!Dean)
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Supernatural: Purgatory Masterlist | 3/? parts done
My Hero Masterlist | ¾ parts done
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Dean dressing up as a cowboy for a case and using Old West style pick-up lines
Introducing Dean to phone apps
Going to karaoke night with Dean at a bar
Pretending to be married to Dean for a case
Eating Halloween candy with Dean
Being one of the only witches Dean can stand
Getting Dean the perfect birthday present
Dean still worrying about you even though you’ve broken up
Dean still answering your calls even though you’ve broken up
Finding out you’re Dean’s soulmate from Apocalypse World Michael
Wanted Posters (Incorrect Quotes)
Dating Dean Poem/Moodboard
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theperfectquestion · 1 month ago
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TWENTY YEARS TO MIDNIGHT
The Venture Brothers starts out as a show that makes fun of the past, but lasted long enough to be one that truly understands it.
So I rewatched The Venture Brothers in one big splurge over the course of two weeks, from Turtle Bay to Baboon Heart.
One of the most charming things about the show is a product of its lengthy creation process and the fact that it was written almost entirely by just two people. The story nearly has a tight continuity, so if you take it at its word then all the events of the story take place over a period of two and a half years, while the actual show was made over a period of twenty years.
The outcome of this curious time dilation is that we follow the Venture Brothers, Hank and Dean, through those difficult years between 16 and 18, but we also follow the writers, Jackson Publick and Doc Hammer, through the difficult years between their twenties and their forties. The show begins irreverent, contrarian and cruel and changes, cell by cell, into something wiser and more profound.
The treatment of Rusty Venture, former boy adventurer and long-suffering heir to the poisonous Venture legacy, is a fascinating thread to follow. In the very first episode he steals his son's kidneys like a ghoul, and his various addictions and neuroses are firmly treated as quirky objects of pity. I don't know much about the personal lives of the writers, but I imagine a certain amount of tragedy would have found them over the course of twenty years. A certain empathy for Rusty's position kicks in around the second season and develops strongly throughout the years. By the time the writers have reached the age that Rusty is when he is introduced, there are delicate attempts to reach out to the poor man, to understand and maybe counteract some of his own personal tragedy, though careful not to smother the comedy that such a character brings to the table.
But the thread I enjoyed following the most was that trailing behind Action Johnny. If you have ever heard of The Venture Brothers, you already know that the show began as a parody and deconstruction of the 1960s Hanna Barbara cartoon Jonny Quest, which was itself an attempted relaunch of the Edisonade craze of the 1910s, riding on the coattails of the far more successful and popular Tintin and Uncle Scrooge comics.
Jonny Quest was the son of a world famous scientist and adventurer, Doctor Quest, who led an extraordinary jet setting life where he accompanied his father to exotic places to experience exciting, often racist, science-themed thrills instead of going to school. He was watched over by his lantern-jawed bodyguard, Race Bannon, and joined with his adopted brother, Hadji.
The Venture Brothers stole this set-up entirely, and Rusty's backstory is a carbon copy of Jonny's. We are first told that this is something more than a swipe early on in the first season of The Venture Brothers when Race Bannon appears, as himself, as a secret agent belonging to the same organisation as the Venture family bodyguard, Brock Samson. It's a clever shorthand for saying that boy adventurers are not singular in this world, they are a type, one which occupies a distinct social strata along with their bodyguards, enemies and other supporting cast members.
The way that we are told this fact, in the seventh episode of the first season, is peak 2004 adult swim: beloved cartoon character Rave Bannon drops out of the sky, lands in front of one of our characters, dies, then shits himself. This was vaguely subversive at the time, but twenty years of Robot Chicken and the like have rendered it a tired, hoary gag. Venture Brothers itself has proved that this moment is at least a wasted opportunity. There was undoubtedly more comedy and interest to be mined from having Race Bannon around as an older counterpart to Brock Samson. But there was fun to be had with squandering opportunities and biting the hand that feeds for writers in their twenties in 2004.
When Jonny Quest himself appears in 2006's season two episode, Twenty Years to Midnight, things aren't much different. Jonny is found haunting the bathyscaphe from the cartoon, injecting heroin, waving an antique pistol and ranting about his father. He has a teardrop tattoo and missing teeth. He is discovered by Rusty's brother, the overachieving but naïve Jonas Junior. It's a much better gag in execution than the Race Bannon one, despite being essentially the same beat, but there is some pathos thanks to Brendan Small's delivery. Jonny is left alive, unlike Race, but the capper to this scene is somehow more humilating and tragic than when Race's corpse shat himself: Jonny is brought on side by Jonas Junior who, pressed for time and not as accustomed to being threatened and menaced as Rusty is, is unable to apply superscience to this situation and simply offers Jonny a supply of heroin.
The entertainment industry's relationship to its back catalogue of intellectual property has changed a lot in the last two decades. Characters like Jonny and Race were embarrassing curios in Ted Turner's garage in 2006. Why not dust them off and kill them in a cartoon to make college kids giggle? Why not give them a crippling drug habit and have them collapse to their knees, bellowing, "I'm in real pain!" But within ten years the media behemoths realised they could spin their old straw into gold, and instead of selling sheink rays at a yard sale, so to speak, they were putting the Flintstones in ads for Halifax bank.
So the Venture Brothers show renamed their tragic, adult Jonny Quest to 'Action Johnny' and in doing so was forced to consider him as a character rather than a skit. And the colossal strength at the heart of the Venture Brothers is in taking ridiculous things like boy adventurers seriously. Jonny Quest was allowed to become a valuable (?) piece of IP, forever a child, forever innocent and marketable, while Action Johnny could live his life unfettered by the parent company's fears.
Action Johnny appears two years later in Season 3, sober but shaky, doing a favour to Rusty by running a seminar for his ill-fated summer camp. He undercuts the spirit of the event by warning the children of the long term effects of adventures on the psyche and unravels into rants about his father. It's a solid bit by itself, especially when contrasted with a neighbouring table from the Pirate Captain (who, despite being an important recurring character, the show refuses to give a name) about the joys of being part of the 'rubber mask set.' Though the world of the Venture Brothers is nominally organised through a bureaucracy of licenced 'protagonists' and 'antagonists,' the biggest tension on screen is between the characters who chose the life, like the Pirate Captain, and those who had the life forced upon them, like Action Johnny. It just so happens that the former tend to end up as tortured, resentful good guys and the latter wind up as joyful, carefree villains.
Bringing that point home in the same episode is the appearance of Doctor Z as the summer camp's headliner. Doctor Z is the final borrowed character Jonny Quest, and one who the writers clearly take the brightest shine to, probably because he has the funniest voice to imitate. Doctor Z also represents the goals of show's resplendent second half - having deconstructed the boy adventurer genre in the early seasons, the Venture Bros very carefully puts the pieces back together into something wholly new.
And so Doctor Zin, the generic yellow peril villain of Jonny Quest, becomes Doctor Z, the retired and contented former archfiend of the Venture Bros. Doctor Z is treated by the other characters as something like a national treasure, a beloved old star who made the game his own. The joke of Doctor Z is that he seems genuinely bemused that his lifetime of villainy seems to have had a lasting negative effect on people. When he appears at Rusty's summer camp, all theatre and terror, he is delighted to meet his old foe Action Johnny, while Johnny is thrown into a whirlwind of trauma at the sight of Z, one that will drag him down into further troubles.
Doctor Z will become more of a feature than Action Johnny over the following years as the show becomes more interested in its older cast members - the ones whose personalities shaped the world, and who have sunny memories of the days that were so painful to Rusty and Johnny. He is part of a larger rehabilitation arc on the meta level, where characters with reprehensible aspects to them are held up for the audience to inspect so that they may find some empathy with them. Sargent Hatred is the poster child of this era, who is a repentant paedophile who joins the main cast as the Venture Brothers' new bodyguard. He's a whole other topic, but Doctor Z has the same function as Hatred, but on a metatextual level. His ancestor, Doctor Zin, is a hideous racial stereotype of the sort that makes modern revivals of the adventure genre so unpalatable. In its first deconstructionist half, the Venture Brothers show would simply wave Doctor Z around as shock tactic - 'look how racist Jonny Quest was, and by extension the company that made it and, logically, its audience!' and then maybe give him a violent and undignified death to wash their hands of the whole matter. But the reconstructivist Venture Brothers show embraces Doctor Z, and takes him beyond his tawdry origins to become an integral part of its story.
In 2009, Action Johnny helps Rusty to articulate this in the episode 'Self-Medication' from Season 4. Johnny and Rusty are in the same therapy group for former boy adventurers, a premise that would later be stolen wholesale by the She-Hulk show. A trail of tenuous clues leads the group to Doctor Z's house in the middle of the night. Johnny forces a confrontation with Z, accusing him of murdering their therapist to perpetuate the spiral he has been in since he saw Z take the stage back at Rusty's day camp. Doctor Z immediately groks the situation and invites the former boy adventurers into his home for tea with his beloved wife, who proudly proclaims herself to be his beard. Doctor Z is proud of what he has done in life, and so has the ability to put the past behind him. Sat between Z and Johhny, who is unable to move on, Rusty realises that he has more in common with the antagonist in the room than the protagonist. Rusty has many such insights throughout the length of the show and they lead him to an interesting end point where he seizes the nettle and becomes a parental figure to the whole weird superscience community.
The final encounter between Action Johnny and Doctor Z takes place nine years (!) later in our timeline - 2018's 'The Terminus Mandate.' Doctor Z is retiring from active villany and, according to the ceremony-obsessed fraternity of organised supervillans, that means he must menace his archenemy one last time. Action Johnny's father is long gone, so Johnny inherits that dubious honour.
It's the first time that we see Doctor Z not being fully committed to the bit. Johnny is resident at a posh rehab clinic and Doctor Z is conflicted between genuinely wanting to see Johnny again but unsure of how to interact with him in a way that doesn't cause actual, lasting harm. Doctor Z even brings a prop from a Jonny Quest cartoon as a gift, in a sequence lovingly reanimated to translate Jonny Quest's vocabulary into the Venture Brothers' language. The sequence chosen is virulently racist, almost too racist to be believed: a mask of the god Anubis lands on top of Johnny's dog, and Doctor Z's Egyptian henchmen suddenly believe that the mask is a vengeful god come to punish them and so abandon the young Doctor, giving the advantage to Johnny's team. In the lobby of the rehab centre, in the late to evening, Doctor Z struggles to articulate why the Anubis mask means so much to him and Johnny cringes at the memory while enjoying the act of reminiscing. He offers to go and run and hide, so that Z can find him, and they both discover they are delighted by the idea.
It's a touching, uncomfortable and deeply weird scene that, to me, is the pinnacle of The Venture Brothers as a creative endeavour. Behind it is a group of people who have been mulling over the implications of Jonny Quest as a short-lived but impactful cultural phenomenon for most of their adult lives. They have been mining the absurdity, the legacy, the implications, the pathos and the bathos of those 26 half-hours of cartoon and found incredible treasures. It starts with finding a silly old thing in the attic that you want to ridicule and it ends, twenty years later, with you acknowledging the attachment one has formed to that silly old thing, and how it has informed your life, for better or worse, in ways you can't deny.
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wastemanjohn · 1 month ago
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i'm not at all bothered about people disliking john because entirely valid tbh and someone else's opinion changes nothing for me. i just think the militant anti john brigade - that is, those that make up textually unsupported and entirely leftfield reasons to dislike him - are really missing out.
the thing is, we've got an absolute buffet of an interesting and irreparably fucked up character here. we could debate the absolute Horrors of john winchester and his a+ parenting for days on end literally from the two seconds of screentime he had. because he does suck! it's totally fair to say that canon john is selfish, neglectful and at best emotionally abusive. now i'm defo no apologist (see username) - but he's also the furthest thing from a cardboard shitty abusive dad. there is serious context for the things he does and the way he thinks.
john's life was hell man. his own dad, for all he knew, abandoned him. he went to war young and almost certainly came back with ptsd. these things alone don't exactly make life easy but then your wife burns to death on a ceiling and you're left a widower and a single dad to a baby and a pre schooler before you're even thirty? then discover that it couldn't even be a plain old housefire but no - there is actual Evil out there and you and your children are not safe and never will be?
the desire for revenge is understandable. the desire to do stupid and paradoxically dangerous things to protect your children are understandable. right, good or healthy? no. but understandable. and that's what makes a good sympathetic character.
basically i think a lot of negative readings of john exaggerate the badness of his intentions and ignore his humanity. it's also understandable that john is not a beacon of emotional regulation. it's also understandable that he cant always balance being emotionally and physically there for his kids with Fighting The Horrors. pour alcohol misuse onto this dumpster fire and you're not getting a perfect person, or a perfect parent. you're getting a broken human who was focused only on keeping his kids safe, alive, protected, and able to protect themselves. sure, he had tunnel vision about it. he did it very badly. he controlled sam as the youngest and parentified dean as the oldest. he made sam feel misunderstood and smothered. he made dean feel completely responsible for the welfare of his brother and dependent on john's praise and approval as his second in command.
john fucked his kids up IMMEASURABLY. he thought he was doing the right thing.
also - remember young john? remember how he's softly spoken and loves his cars and adores his girlfriend and respects his fucking elders and, to quote mary, "believes in happy endings"? remember the doting dad we see for like a minute in the pilot? is that not meant to show us that, had his life not taken the turn it did - he would likely have been an entirely different person? how is the tragedy of that not also completely DELICIOUS??
so why homophobic john? why john who beat dean senseless regularly? why john who gave no shits and wanted his boys to be miserable? why these embellishments that make him someone else, someone with nothing good inside of him, when what canon gives us is so much better?
come on guys. the tragic messy sad angry selfish HUMAN john we got in the show is an absolute treat. why are we making him an irredeemable, unfeeling and uncomplicated asshole who doesn't give a shit about his boys. ya'll saw him spending a good 50% of his screen time crying about how much he loved them right? and sam and dean KNEW he loved them. they also knew, or in dean's case came to realise, that he was a terrible father in many ways. real life is messy and nuanced. families are messy and nuanced. and imo spn got this so right.
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