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bananasofthorns · 4 months ago

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tell me about your worst guy

ok a summary of the campaign and what has happened so far, as quick as I can. the campaign is based on the life series started by Grian Minecraft (the irl guy) - tldr all the PCs plus a handful of NPCs are in a death game (kind of think the hunger games in terms of how much space they have. but add minecraft mechanics) and they each have a limited amount of lives; once they reach their last life (red), they get to/have to start killing people. last person standing is the winner. to make things more silly goofy, there is also the boogeyman mechanic, where at least one person per session is chosen to be the "boogeyman" and they have to kill another player or else lose all but their last life at the end of the session.

there are also these beings called the watchers. if you don't know what they are, think angels who love watching people Go Through It in these life games. Aphim is a watcher, but a disgraced one - this game is his last chance to redeem himself. so he NEEDS to win. additionally, he has been told that he has to kill Beau, an NPC who has been in the games previously, was formerly a watcher (which Aphim. dubiously knows in canon? I don't remember), and is currently trying to stop the games from continuing. also he and Aphim are uh. how do I say this. homosexual. Beau is trying to seduce Aphim away from the watchers and Aphim has no fucking clue how to feel about it because he has never been flirted with before. especially not by a hot man. anyway

something you need to know about Aphim is that his normal form, his watcher form, is nowhere near human. he is towering and winged and has far too many eyes and a few too many joints and when he does not need a contained physical form he does not really have one. imagine a desolate, snowy forest of birch. he is the trees and their eye-like knots and the blanket of snow and the spaces between and the void above and the distant stars. that is Who He Is. but for the game he has to be contained in a human form and he Hates It. there is nothing he loathes more. it's like gender dysphoria but for what kind of thing he is. the only thing he loathes nearly as much is the thought of losing his power and autonomy, which is what will happen if he fails the watchers.

and every time he fails to kill Beau, even though he's not red yet and so by the rules of the watchers' game can't yet kill Beau, the watchers threaten his wings. which he obviously is not a huge fan of. so even though he is very intrigued by Beau and what Beau's trying to tell him, the selfishness will always win out.

cut to the most recent session. boogeyman is rolled. the gang [Aphim, Beau, Orla (NPC), Carwyn (Mura's PC), and Apate (Laurie's PC) wakes up to find Synne (NPC who is someone from the real world isekaied into the game. funny as hell) gone. they go to look for Synne. Synne comes out of the bushes trying to attack Beau; Apate and Aphim (who, by the way, hate each other so bad - Apate has a lot of watcher trauma to work through and Aphim just finds her annoying) notice first. Apate (who has also latched onto Beau as a way out of her Literal Trauma Cycle) goes straight to trying to attack Synne. Aphim disarms Synne.

meanwhile, halfway across the map, Arsené (Ophelia's PC) and Achlys (Chrys's PC) both notice a Very Bad Vibe Shift in, like, the fabric of the universe. something is about to go so horribly wrong.

Synne lunges for Beau's throat but Orla blocks Synne; Beau briefly restrains Synne. the moment they touch, Aphim is hit with a wash of pain so bad his entire body just goes numb. it's the feeling he gets when the watchers summon him from the game to talk to him but far, far worse.

which is the bigger threat right now? Synne or Beau?

who is the subject every time the watchers summon him?

he attacks Beau.

obviously, Orla and Apate do not take kindly to this. in fact, they end up killing him about it LMAO (also, side note. all Beau did was push the axe further in. which was INSANE) (he didn't die; Arsené, Achlys, and their allies showed up and helped him). so he's on his second to last life right now

before he respawned, he had a vision where aforementioned Grian Minecraft (the character, this time) (he is also a former watcher) went hey bud. maybe think about what you really want. the watchers will fuck you up. and Aphim (digging his teeth into his monstrousness so hard it'll hurt) basically went hm. no 💛

and then he was also briefly back in the white space where the watchers summon him to talk. and all he felt was their towering presences and disappointment. and then he respawned. so obviously he is going to be so normal about all of this next session,

#oc tag aphim #campaign the reckoning begins #banana made a post #banana answers things #beauphim #so sorry about the long post LMAO (i am not)#is this post cohesive? probably not #i kept getting distracted #but uh. there you go! my guy of all time!#i have SO MANY THOUGHTS about aphim #there are so many stories about a monster finding humanity #and being saved or saving themself because of it #what about a monster who wants to stay a monster. what about a monster who is repulsed by even the thought of being human.#tldr aphim sucks and also he can be soooo aromanticism #like yes the watchers suck so bad. aphim is fucked no matter what he does. he cannot please them #but separate from that. if you take just aphim and who he is #distinctly separate from what would make him ''human'' and in fact he is repulsed and wants nothing to do with it?#yeah #i am thinking about him so much always

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gamerguy265 · 4 months ago

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Alright! With the ask now out of the way I’m gonna go ahead and dump my ideas into here to paint a better picture of what I meant in regards to “what does it mean to use an abstract concept as a superpower”. It’s going to be just a bit long, so here’s a heads up on that front! But I’m going to be covering quite a bit about how I feel regarding the Miraculous power system.

I didn’t want to completely bombard the ask since the question itself goes to the very CORE of how the Miraculous work and is as such a very loaded question and will take far more than a couple short paragraphs to explain. More than anything I wanted to gauge how you would feel if those theoretical powers I proposed could function for the Miraculous, and from the looks of things, the feelings seem to be rather positive! I didn’t really add all of the details in my thought process in the ask because I didn’t wanna flood it with info, so this post will cover my whole thought process and how such an idea could exist in canon and why I feel the current structure of how their magic system operates fails to live up to expectations.

But first and foremost before I really get into it, I want to thank you for the kind words about the ask! I know it was a bit wordy, but I’m glad that it’s gotten across and you enjoyed thinking about what the idea meant! Trying to promote thought and experimenting with what’s already been established is one of the things I want to do most when regarding and analyzing magic systems because not only does it showcase potential holes in the system, but also points of massive opportunity or potential loopholes to exploit.

Although I would say I disagree in terms of it what I proposed not falling under the “fix-it” category, I would say that it might be easier to more properly explain my full thought process to help better showcase how I came to this idea and how it can tie into canon quite easily. It does require just a little bit of a different way of thinking than what a lot of people seem to generally have in regards to how they feel they could better fix the Miraculous and how they operate though.

I don’t think I’ve seen a lot of people consider this angle that I’m trying to go for here, so that’s why I’m going to do my best here to explain it!

I with no doubt in my mind think that canon’s current magic system is undoubtedly a broken, mismanaged mess and full of double standards, contradictions, and just outright lying to the audience at points but I also wholly believe those theoretical powers I gave during the ask COULD technically exist in canon because under all of that rubble there is a gold mine of opportunity.

At least… that’s what I believe anyway.

So, how exactly does this proposed, sweeping overhaul idea of leaning MORE into the abstract concept idea while also having it tie into canon “fix” how the Miraculous function as a collective? That’s what this post will try to answer. At least in regards to the kwamis and the bloated size of the amount of heroes the show currently has.

(There’s a LOT of different systematic issues at play that make Miraculous’s power system and the management of those powers the mess that it is. This supposed “fix” is far from the only change that can be brought into play to fix the issues that permeate how the show functions.)

Let’s start at the beginning with how the Guardians choose Miraculous holders to begin with, and that is by looking for certain character traits that align and compliment with a concept.

Marinette is incredibly creative, a go-getter, and quick on her feet when it comes to making plans as she makes things happen through her own effort and with her own hands. As such, she is a good fit to hold Creation because of her ability to bring things into existence whether it be physical objects or helping open up opportunities.

Adrien on the other hand is compassionate and kind, as well as rather pacifistic in nature despite his dormant fighter tendencies that really only awaken to free himself or free others from oppression rather than to actively cause harm. As such, his overall gentle nature helps temper the volatile nature Destruction carries and as such makes him a good fit to wield it.

This right here serves as the basis of this “fix” I propose. By leaning heavily into the WHY of the reason they were chosen for that specific concept it can showcase a far greater bit of character and personality whenever they pair up with the kwami of that concept. It’s less about what the concept IS as a whole, but rather it’s what the concepts MEANS to the holder that’s most important.

What I’m basically saying is the superpowers given to Miraculous holders are expressions and reflections of the holder’s personality, intentions, beliefs, and values tying into the concept of the kwami they are paired with.

That is the grand “fix” idea I want to run with in regards to helping solve the wonky lore of the kwamis and help try and alleviate the bloated hero count, but I honestly just kind of feel that it’s something canon WANTS to try and say, but they admittedly just keep dropping the ball on this potential idea because they have never really tried to experiment with the notion of it in length.

Why do I believe canon WANTS to try and say something like this? Let’s look a little deeper and actually look into the suits they gain whenever they transform with a Miraculous.

This idea of utilizing things such as the holder’s personality, intent, beliefs, and values to shape aspects of them acting as a superhero actually already exists in canon through how the super suits of the Miraculous holders and the form that akuma victims take are actually born from how they want to look rather than it being determined for them by some force beyond their control.

The Miraculous holders shape their own identity and the form their suits take use both conscious and subconscious components of their being.

Whether it’s through their strong deliberate intent (Adrien and Alya becoming Chat Walker and Rena Furitive / Claw Noir’s costume change at the end of Miraculous Paris) or through a subconscious desire or perception of themselves playing a part in the formation of the suit (Chat Noir’s bell appearing on his costume being confirmed to be a statement on his desire for a stable, loving home life), every Miraculous holder and akuma’s identity is unique to them alone.

The shape a superhero/villain identity takes is therefore malleable due to this utilization of their unique livelihoods to influence it and can also adapt due to how they view the world, how they view themselves, how they view the duty the Miraculous holds, as well so many other factors that hold influence over their lives.

It’s all about how the Miraculous holders interpret their reality and what they imagine and visualize both for themselves and their capabilities that forms their super suit and as such wouldn’t the powers that can come with that very super suit also follow those exact same rules? Their suits already adapt based on who the holder is as a person and the weapons they carry also canonically adapt based on the timeframe they are active to match the technology of the time. Every other part of their transformation with a Miraculous adapts so the powers they are given should adapt too, right?

Miraculous at its heart is a show that places the characters above all else, and as such the superpowers that come with it and how they use those superpowers should help reflect what type of character they are, what they value in their lives, and how they grow as people with this concept at the forefront of their lives. The super suits already seem to reflect this, so it would only make sense that the powers they gain with that suit also follow that same pattern.

This mindset also lets allows other somewhat artsy and interpretive powers like the Goat, Rooster, or Dragon to actually make sense within the context of the concept they embody without it feeling like it’s out of place compared to the more literal and straightforward powers of the other Miraculous. It’s because of the fact that the powers are merely demonstrations of different ways of interpreting the concept they embody and then showcasing it rather than the power literally being the concept itself.

It can be as straightforward and easily graspable as Destruction being able to break things down or as interpretive as Derision being able to mess with other powers by making a mockery of them. So long as there’s a strong enough connection to the concept, that power can be performed.

Miraculous superpowers aren’t just powers like “Lucky Charm”. The Miraculous superpower is the concept the kwami embodies ITSELF. This is what I want to lean into with the “fix” and expand on it to help showcase character intent.

And to further back my point, from the looks of things canon actually AGREES with this line of thinking if Rena Rouge and Ladybug’s point-blank conversation about this very thing at the end of Monsieur Pigeon 72 is anything to go by.

Rena Rouge: “You've been so focused on your role as a guardian that you've forgotten you're still Ladybug!”

Ladybug: “You found something in the spellbook?”

Rena Rouge: “No, there was nothing to find! What if the rules in the spellbooks are not a finite set of existing rules, but only what the guardians had learned about the miraculous so far?”

Ladybug: “Which means if my power is the power of creation...”

Rena Rouge: “Yes, create. Your only limits are the ones you put on yourself.”

“Your only limits are the ones you put on yourself.” This is the reasoning for why I gave those proposed powers specifically in the ask. It’s because the power itself functions abstractly.

Those theoretical powers I gave in the ask would follow the same process of being awoken like the Miracle Charms. Because of Ladybug’s desire to create a bond or Chat Noir’s desire to destroy doubt, they can awaken a power that allows them to do as such in the same vein of how Ladybug could expand her horizons to make the Miracle Charms or Gabriel did with megakumas.

This ONE line of dialogue and the fact that this ability to birth new powers is something that is UNIVERSALLY CAPABLE across the Miraculous completely can reimagine the context to how the powers of the Miraculous function.

Not only that, it can give a reason as to why some Miraculous are able to start off with more than 1 superpower “innately” at the beginning of the series. I am, of course, talking about the Ladybug primarily with this statement, but the Butterfly is also just as guilty of it. We were told that each Miraculous has one kwami, who embodies one concept, and as such holds only one power.

But how can an abstract concept only be shown in one way? Why is it that the Ladybug can have more than one power to begin with? Is is just so special that it gets three right off the bat?

I say no. The Ladybug functions just like the rest and my reasoning is that it’s very well possible that because of Miraculous being able to awaken to new superpowers, each superpower that the kwamis come “paired” when given to a new holder is merely just past Miraculous holders having gone through the same steps Ladybug did to create the Miracle Charms and passing down the knowledge of the power’s existence and how to use it through the kwami and the Order.

The kwami are concepts, and concepts can have different interpretations and intent. They just are, and the “Lucky Charm” could just be the first means of humans visualizing, expressing, and demonstrating the concept of Creation. After it was discovered, it was passed down through Tikki and the Order to be taught to future generations of Miraculous holders. That is why Piao Chong is remembered within the Grimoire.

She’s the one who birthed the miracle that is the “Lucky Charm”.

Another Ladybug could have discovered the purifying light due to wanting to create a world that is free of taint and evil. Another Ladybug holder could then discover the miracle cure Miraculous Ladybug years later due to a desire to help rebuild their home. This way of interpreting the “power” of the Miraculous and the concept the kwami embody could open the door to so, SO many options and it can even work for small, mundane things like destroying stains off of a dirty robe or helping create or repair clothes by being able to stitch together fabric.

It’s all about a Miraculous holder’s intention, interpretation, visualization, and imagination that guide the superpowers. Some may awaken to new powers through the use of logically thinking through problems. Another can awaken to them out of sheer will and determination and letting their intuition and their emotion guide them.

Yet another could spend their whole time as a holder mastering a single aspect of the concept the kwami embodies and not take into account any other interpretation while another could become a jack of all trades when it comes to the concept and utilize a lot of different aspects that exist but never forge one of their own.

The capabilities of this idea alone are INCREDIBLE and it’s why I’m displeased with how they showcase it. They clearly have the groundwork to do so, so why aren’t they doing anything with it when it’s right there? (It's their inability to shift from status quo by the way.) They clearly built up this idea that the Miraculous adapt with who wield them and when they are wielded as seen by the ability of their suits and weapons being able to adapt. Their powers should too.

It’s that desire born from wanting to help another person or do the right thing that can create those small little bits of power that can be remembered for a lifetime. Sometimes you don’t need a grandiose display of strength or might or to save the world to be seen as a hero. Sometimes, all that needs to be done is to get to know someone a little and lend a helping hand in their time of need.

Who knows? You might just grow a bit from just opening your mind to new possibilities. The sky is the limit when it comes to human innovation— some miracles were born from man after all.

TLDR for those that didn’t read the explanation and just skipped to the bottom below!

A kwami’s associated abstract concept is the single superpower a Miraculous holder obtains. Abilites such as Lucky Charm and Cataclysm are merely aspects and demonstrations of that concept they embody, not the entirety of it. Each ability is born from a different interpretation of the concept the kwami embodies and is able to be awakened due to a Miraculous holder's unique livelihood and the things that influence them helping form it. As such, it opens the door for a potential myriad of new powers to be developed.

This door was actually opened for a moment during Monsieur Pigeon 72 with Ladybug's creation of the Miracle Charms. My supposed “fix” is really just heavily focusing on this aspect of the lore to help give more character driven moments and to better drive home the character heavy narrative Miraculous wants to say.

This is also the reason some Miraculous can come “paired” with more than one ability from the start. Each ability is a different demonstration of the concept and as such can be utilized. How those individualistic demonstrations and interpretations of the concept can also be taught to new Miraculous holders is that the knowledge of the ability can passed down through the kwami and the Order to future holders and those holders growing to understand it.

Miraculous are meant to assist humanity, but humanity itself is forever changing and evolving and innovating. If the Miraculous cannot evolve with them or adapt based on the times they find themselves active, then what is the point of even having them? The good news is that it actually is what they do. At least in regards to their suits and their weapons. Their powers, however, seem to stay rather stagnant but that most definitely is due to the writers really just not putting forth the effort to try and innovate with the concepts the heroes have and having this burning need to maintain the status quo within a show where change really SHOULD be happening.

If you can think it, you can do it. Not only a lesson that people can take into their own lives, but one that gives quite a bit of means of innovation, creativity, and funnily enough with how Miraculous likes to handle their status quo... change.

On the matter of the Miraculous as not just a magic tool but a jewel where “a magic being fuses with you and you become one”, what is your take on the powers the Miraculous give and how it plays into the whole abstract concept idea the kwamis personify? I’m a bit curious.

I know this may seem like an odd question, but really looking into the idea of “a human being is chosen by a mystic secret society because THEY in particular are the one who best embodies and upholds this concept at the forefront of their lives” as the basis of your magic system, it becomes apparent that Miraculous has a really barebones and literal approach to the idea.

One concept, one power (if you ignore the main heroine and villain lol) and it’s the most literal expression of the idea possible. Well, it is until it isn’t. I’m looking at you, ROOSTER. Dragon, you’re on thin ice because you’re technically able to spin the idea of your power being a play on the phrase “perfect storm” but I know that’s just wishful thinking on my part.

I understand why they chose to do it the way they did for their target audience (aka children). But I also find that using ABSTRACT concepts in the most literal and straight forward way possible is also a MASSIVE wasted opportunity from both a lore perspective and a storytelling one.

What about more symbolic or metaphorical means of showing those concepts and how they can play and be used in our everyday, mundane lives? What about using those concepts to help showcase their “moral lesson of the week” and letting it act as the lesson kids takes away from the episode because the show was made for kids?

Like for example, Marinette sees two friends get into an argument and are no longer on speaking terms. After hearing both of their stories however, she comes to learn that the argument stemmed from good but mishandled and misunderstood intention. From her desire to help those friends make up and reveal that good intention, she can use the power of Creation to create a magic bond between the two friends and connect their hearts to help them communicate more honestly and freely. Despite being a superpower, it acts as a lesson to show the need for mediation skills and promotes honest communication in friendships.

Another could be Adrien finding someone that is plagued with doubt and fear over wanting to do something they truly want to do but are too afraid to go through with it. Paralyzed by this fear, they choose to turn away from something they truly want to do and make themselves miserable due to it. Chat Noir then could use the power of Destruction to quash that fear holding them back and empower them, but also act as a lesson in the importance of encouraging others and the need for strong support networks in your life.

I absolutely love the idea of using those abstract concepts the kwamis embody to help guide the choices the Miraculous holders make and not only be used to showcase and promote growth in themselves but in others and the world itself. I think by leaning heavily into this idea, it could tremendously expand on the importance and gravity of the power of the kwami, the bond a Miraculous holder shares with their kwami, and just what wielding that Miraculous entails.

I know you’ve talked about how you feel as if the Black Cat should have the ability to purify and not the Ladybug because purification is the act of destroying or removing taint or corruption, so this ask is very much built off of this idea and I want to know how far you would willingly push this idea of what it means to wield the power of Creation, Destruction, Illusion, Transmission, and so forth.

Sorry for kinda the long ask, but I wanted to try and explain my question in the most easy to understand way possible lol.

I think I get what you're asking and it's an interesting idea. The first show I thought of after reading this was Winx club because that franchise does a lot of things with abstract concepts like belief and harmony leading to magic powers, but the concept is far from unique to Winx. A lot of magical girl shows lean into more abstract ways of granting magical powers because magical girl shows tend to lean hard on the whole Power of Friendship thing and friendship is an abstract concept, so it makes sense to pair it with other abstract things.

I personally wouldn't go this abstract route for Miraculous simply because it's such a massive deviation from canon and - when I'm coming up with ideas on here or writing fanfic - I do try to be as canon loyal as I can so that my stuff feels like an adaptation of canon and not a whole new show. Adaptation is an art, not a science, so there are no hard rules here, but my general approach is to try to make a bunch of little tweaks instead of big, massive shifts like you proposed. Those tweaks add up to massive shifts, but it's more of a gradual over time thing than a glaring, right from the start change. Or, at least, that's what I hope I'm doing!

That doesn't make your idea bad! Far from it. It would be a way to fix the wonky lore around the Kwamis because you are absolutely right to say that the powers they grant are often far too rigid for how abstract some of the associated concepts are. Perfection being a play on a perfect storm is one of the worst offenders in my book because sure it's fun and all, but when you try to match it with the very clear powers granted from concepts like Destruction it's feels weird and off. It's almost as if the writers are mixing a soft magic system with a hard magic system.

In case you don't know those terms, here's a real quick primer:

Soft magic systems are systems where the magic isn't clearly defined. They work best in stories where the specifics of how and why the magic works don't matter. Think Cinderella, where it doesn't really matter why the fairy godmother can do what she does because the magic is just an excuse to get Cinderella to the ball.

Hard magic systems are systems where the magic is clearly defined and basically works like a science. These types of systems work best in stories where the main characters are actively wielding magic and the way they wield that magic matters because it's how the writers establish narrative stakes. This is what Miraculous is theoretically doing with things like its five minute timers and single use powers. The problem is that the writers often ignore their established rules for the sake of plot and that's a terrible way to tell a story. It leads to all kinds of nonsense like the aforementioned mismatch between the kwamis and their associated Forces.

The way that I'd fix the Kwami issue is to just change what Force each Kwami is tied to. Abstract concepts are out, hard concepts are in and really always were because Creation and Destruction may have a broad range, but they work as hard concepts. I'd then do some relatively minor tweaks to the powers that each kwami grants in order to make everything align. (My peacock and dragon are arguably pretty different from canon, but generally speaking, my tweaks are more along the lines of the purification example you brought up in your ask).

But that's all about trying to fix canon and canon is a broken mess, so I don't blame you if you say, "Nah, I'd rather explore this fun idea I had to drastically overhaul the magic system and the way akuma fights work." And yes, this magic system change would also require making some pretty big changes to how fights work since akumas aren't well suited to the idea in their current form. You'd want to move away from the breaking the item path that canon favors and make it so that every akuma fight ended in a person rejecting their akuma. Which canon does do, but it's weird and I don't like it. When we first saw it, it was a big deal special event, but since then they've cheapened it by having way too many people be able to do it, so having it be the standard path instead of this overused deviation would be a good way to fix that. It would also allow for an easier lesson of the day if that's your kind of thing.

There's one other thing this could fix: the character bloat. You may have actually brought up one of the only ways to make a team of 18 heroes work. If we have each hero be chosen for their unique tie to an abstract force, then you can get some really niche problems that only they can solve. I'm not sure how well the abstract forces chosen by canon work for that idea, but the general concept is the core of plenty of successful properties.

I already mentioned Winx, but the 2010 version of My Little Pony also played with this idea by having each of the six main heroes be tied to an abstract concept (generosity, honesty, laughter, kindness, loyalty, magic). If you did something like that where the core team had broadly applicable powers while the side heroes had really niche ones, then I think the temp heroes could have actually been something great! Right now, most of their powers are too broadly applicable to the point where it's weird that they're not called on more and it would be nice to see that fixed. (Luka should be at every fight and you cannot change my mind on this. It's ridiculous that Marinette somehow magically knows which fights will have them fail and is able to always call him in at the right time, but that's a rant for another day.)

In summary, I like this idea and would watch a show with it/read a fic with it, but I think it's too deviant from canon to fall into the "fix-it" category. Feel free to (kindly) chime in if you disagree!

#ml salt #ml writing salt #lore discussion #ml writing critical #lore #scarlet lady uses this idea really well #go read scarlet lady if you haven’t before it’s really good #also go watch frieren #it’s the closest comparison i can make to this proposed idea #freiren is ALSO really good #I rewrote this like three times #i kept getting distracted #by other issues LOL #if you want to see those little tangents let me know!#i really like talking about the possibilites

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