#i just think that this storyline fits jonathan better and

[autismmydearwatson]

Unpopular opinion but the Renfield movie would be way better if it were about Jonathan

[pico-digital-studios]

Omniverse - Another crazy Spider-Verse crossover idea I had, this time based on Ben 10

Yep, I had this idea floating around in my head for quite a bit today, in part thanks to reading up plenty about Ben 10 on the TV Tropes wiki. It got me imagining; what if we had another Spider-Verse-esque crossover, but involving the universe of Ben 10 instead?

I mean, the premise of alternate realities and timelines has been explored quite a bit in the many iterations of the franchise (like Gwen getting the Omnitrix instead of Ben or Ben's other alternate counterparts), and it got me imagining a cast line-up for the concept. The ones I thought up for the story are as follows:

Omni-Gang

Miles Morales / Spider-Man II = Alt Alan Albright / Alan Fanon (harbouring on him being a fanon counterpart to the original)

Peter B. Parker / Spider-Man = Ben A. Tennyson / Ben 10

Gwen Stacy / Spider-Woman = Julie Yamamoto / Julie 30

Spider-Man Noir = Classic Cartoon Ben 10

Spider-Ham = Reboot Ben 10

Peni Parker and SP//dr = Anime Lucy Mann and Ship

Pavitr Prabhakr / Spider-Man India = India Jimmy Jones

Hobie Brown / Spider-Punk = Ultimate Ben 10,000

Margo Kess / Spider-Byte = Gwen 10

Mayday Parker = Toddler Ken Green-Tennyson

Villains (Into the Omniverse)

William "Kingpin" Fisk = Phil Billings

Aaron Davis / The Prowler = Manny Armstrong / Techadon Warrior

Olivia Octavius / Doc-Ock = Arshika Charlie Animo / Dr. Animo

Green Goblin = Sunder the Retriever

Tombstone = Fistrick

Scorpion = Vulkanus

Villains (Across/Beyond the Omniverse)

Adriano Tumino / Renaissance Vulture = Pastel Master Kundo

Jonathan Ohnn / The Spot = Albedo / Negative Ben 10

Armadillo = Ssserpent

Miles G. Morales = Alan K. Albright

Villains (Miscellaneous)

Doctor Crawdaddy = Tim Buktu (Ben 10 Reboot)

Pavitr's Hobgoblin = Trombipulor

Omni-Society

Miguel O'Hara / Spider-Man 2099 = Reboot Evil Ben 10/Alien X

Lyla = Alternate Glitch (in a Gwen form)

Jessica Drew / Spider-Woman = Molly Gunther

Ben Reilly / Scarlet Spider = Ben 23

Supporting Cast (Base Universe)

Jefferson Morales = Alt Pierce Wheels

Rio Morales = Alt Helen Wheels

Spider-Man I = Ben B. Tennyson / Ben 10

May Parker = Grandpa Max Tennyson

Mary-Jane Watson-Parker = Kai Green-Tennyson

Ganke Lee = JT

Supporting Cast (Ben A.'s universe)

Mary-Jane Watson = Kai Green

Supporting Cast (Julie's universe)

Peter Parker / The Lizard = Ben Tennyson / Zs'Skayr

Captain George Stacy = Victor Valadis

Supporting Cast (Jimmy's universe)

Gayatri Singh = Elena Valadis

Supporting Cast (Alan K.'s universe)

Rio Morales = Alt Helen Wheels

The Omnitrix is the swap-in for the radioactive spider here, and whoever finds it is the one (in)voluntarily assigned to help protect the universe from all sorts of threats, whether they wish to or not, sending their life from ordinary to extraordinary fast.

I picked Julie specifically for the role of Spider-Gwen, considering how she lost her overall touch in the series after Omniverse (and kinda because I personally shipped Ben and Julie as a kid, even with their rough spots), hence why I felt she and Alan would make a good fit for each other due to similar insecurities.

I had been thinking carefully about the roles to assign to each character I could. I originally intended Ben 23 to be the swap-in for Spider-Ham, but considering how full of himself he was before Omniverse Ben/Ben Prime came along (which is why he's in Reilly's place), I felt Reboot Ben 10, whose world is less serious than the others, could fit the role better, whilst also inheriting sympathetic traits like relating to losing someone close.

The Classic Cartoon Ben 10 isn't from the ORIGINAL storyline, but rather one based on classic cartoons from the 60s and 70s, just to avoid confusion there. Lucy Mann's genki girl approach, for one, made her a perfect fit for Peni's role here, too.

And considering Jimmy Jones is a big fan of Ben 10 in canon (and was respected for it in Ultimate Alien), I felt the naïve newcomer status could work for an alternate universe version of him from India. And as Ultimate Ben 10,000 is pretty much on top of his game (alongside being less likely to steer towards canon), he fits well for Hobie's role.

The evil reboot Ben 10, I felt, fits well for the role of Miguel, since he lost his Gwen and Max when they tried to save him, which led him down a darker path in life and required FIVE Omnitrix users to take him down. Likewise, I thought a Gwen variant of Glitch to go with him (which fits well with her sass in the series proper) fits Lyla's role as a digital assistant to a futuristic hero.

Since the four Plumbers' Helpers are of similar age, I felt that Pierce and Helen are Alan's legal guardians in Bellwood, alongside both assisting the Plumbers in protecting Earth. Manny, who has Aaron's role, is the most hot-headed of the four, but has a good heart deep down.

The reason for Alan having to inherit his Ben's role is through inheriting his Omnitrix after Ben gives him the responsibility to protect his world for him, and his compatibility with it came from the other dimension thanks to the experiments Phil's scientists were doing. As for the whole hair-sticking incident, Julie's hair was longer (as far down as her waist) before the accident, and at present, it's as long as in canon.

Max being the badass old man, no matter what universe, comes with the territory anyway, same with him being tech-savvy, which allows him to help Alan adjust to being the new hero. Kai is also commonly the girl Ben ultimately ends up marrying between universes, and JT being Alan's roomie contributes to him being the more chill between him and Cash (the glasses are a plus, too).

I also thought carefully about the rogues gallery between stories from throughout Ben 10's history, like having a female counterpart to Dr. Animo, or Ssserpent being the random villain Alan has to quickly deal with on his way back home with a cake, due to the villain's butt-monkey status in his first two appearances (he got better on the third).

Zs'Sakyr, I felt, was the best counterpart to represent The Lizard in Omniverse, since he's Ghostfreak's true self who tried possessing Ben and gaining full power over the Omnitrix. And I've kept up with the theme of altering art styles for the AU version of Master Kundo (like how Vulture was from the Renaissance, Green Impostor (Funkinverse) was from a sketchbook, and Snively (from my work, IAB!) was from a cell-shaded world).

Albedo, I thought, would be the best option available for a swap-in for Ohnn, as he became villainous through making a fake Omnitrix that made him a direct doppelganger of Ben (until a bioenergy feedback caused his appearance to shift), and since he fell into D-List villain territory, I felt he could have the biggest voyage to become an arch-enemy that Alan CAN'T ignore in general.

You guys are welcome to take all that as you will, and make up your own ideas on how things will turn out for them. See you later!

[wroteclassicaly]

Listen, I will defend/love Nancy with ALL OF MY HEART, but it doesn’t bode well if you excuse her sleeping with Jonathan and not even breaking up with Steve (he had to say the words), and also staying with him for nearly a year because she was (in her own words) ‘waiting’ for Jonathan to be with her.

You can love both sides, but you can also point out their wrongdoings! Steve was an asshole sometimes, who didn’t handle things very well, but Nance was too. Her trauma with Barb does NOT excuse what she did to Steve! But the point is here (besides them being fictional), is that they were both kids experiencing massive changes to their realities, threats to their lives, losing friends, lying to family, etc. They didn’t make the best decisions, but I just don’t see the point in fighting over who is worse.

Because neither character is bad. They changed, they grew, they fought, they loved. Nancy Wheeler and Steve Harrington are two of Stranger Things’ strongest characters! I care so much for them both, and I can respect different viewpoints on their stories, but also point out both faults, etc.

In the end, I don’t want them together because they just don’t fit (D Bros better not white picket fence Nancy when she said it was her literal nightmare), and I don’t want Steve to be a settled option. It’s a backtrack in the writing, forced nostalgia (in my opinion, everyone has a right to their own), and it seems lazy as hell (like they could not figure out how to write a solid storyline for Steve without a love triangle).

But yeah, I’m just rambling. I see everyone fighting about this today and I don’t think we need to fight, because it’s okay ❤️

[thestobingirlie]

You put it perfectly into words why Stranger Things gets weaker per season. I wish we could get longer season with spaced out plots and more focus on characters.

Like you're so right about the Russian storyline, I'll never not be annoyed with it. It would have been more satisfying if the Hawkins lab was behind it, especially bc it wouldn't make sense for Russians to be present in the US, I wish they would have cut it by s4.

But also the Jancy plotline in s2 felt like you said disingenuous. Like, I kinda loved the justice for Barb thing, but it did nothing for the overall plot. Jancy had the easy way out, like if they raised the stakes with Nancy being caught with the recorder and Jancy having a genuine discussion about Barb and grief, it would be better. Also, what they did was so dangerous, and tbh the consequences could have influenced the other groups. It would have also validated Steve's fear of the government if suddenly the lab goes around threatening people because of Jancy. Plus, we knew El was alive, Jancy didn't, why would they still want to go through after seeing the gate and vines. They put the entire town in danger, and the show should have addressed that. I mean, because they had 4 groups/storyline to tell the Duffers were shit on focusing really on each. They saw the ending before, so some stuff was just glossed over for convenience. And honestly, that bled through the following seasons as well. They have the end goal, but they miss the little details. We need longer seasons with more character development and less plot.

i wish i could say that i think longer seasons would save stranger things, but i honestly think the duffers would just shove in more useless plots. someone actually needs to stop them lmao

if they wanted to involve russians, it should’ve just been a lone spy, or a few at most. a whole ass invasion is just ludicrous. like, they seriously built a shopping mall with an entire bunker underneath and no one caught them??? season one has the government listening in on everyone’s phone calls, they make a fake body within a day! and they didn’t catch this whole team of russians apparently controlling local politics? even if the lab has moved, surely they’re keeping an eye on things. the duffers tried to retcon this by having owens fired for negligence, but it’s still dumb.

with jancy’s s2 plotline, i think it’s just not at all thought out. the justice for barb thing was absolutely just because of the unexpected audience reaction. so they shoved that plotline in… carelessly, i guess? they wanted it there, so they did it, even if it didn’t actually fit. nancy somehow doesn’t get caught with the recorder, and the local news picks up the story and the lab doesn’t just kill them all? and like you said, nancy and jonathan see the gate, see the way it’s growing and expanding, and don’t stop to think what the hell is gonna happen once the lab is gone? and i think jonathan especially shouldn’t have gone along with the plan, or at least resisted a little, because his little brother is getting treated in that lab!

i totally understand nancy needing justice, and wanting barb’s parents to know what happened to her, but the way it was written just didn’t work.

and i think you’re so right about the duffers having an ending first, and then just needing to get people there. no matter if it doesn’t make sense, or it’s bad writing. so long as they get those hero moments.

i will forever wish stranger things was character driven instead of plot driven, but this is the life we live <\3

[vickyvicarious]

i don't know what specific moment this reminds me of, BUT: everything goes on - porter robinson

"When you meet me in the daylight like we did before Then I felt you on my shoulder, and you weren't suffering anymore You said, "I'm sorry that you worry", but don't apologize I told you to forget me, but you stayed by my side" i can't quite put my finger on it but, despite the melody, this song's lyrics have SOME dracula vibe that i just don't know which set of characters to pin down on.

Oh, I know exactly which set of characters: Lucy and Arthur.

At least, those are the vibes I'm getting. You could make some of it work well for Jonathan and Mina too, but I think it fits these two near perfectly. There's a kind of sad, wistful resignation to the feel of the song which fits with Lucy knowing she's getting worse and perhaps won't make it to their wedding. Admittedly the singer is the same all throughout and the lyrics alternate a bit between who fits best as their POV.

The "don't try to make yourself remember" can be Lucy to herself in a way, about the horrors lurking just outside her reach. But it can also be something she wants to tell Arthur about her after her death, a kind of 'please find happiness without me' wish. The lines "well, you were staring at the window / and I said, "I wanna take you to the sea, / and when I'm better we'll do everything" / (I gotta stop making promises I can't keep" fit so well with Arthur not having been able to join them at Whitby, and Lucy trying to so hard in the early days in London to hide/ignore her own illness and wanting to go out and do things with him. "Someday I'll be overcast / but you won't have to cry / cause we'll do the grieving / while I'm by your side" is so sad because that's exactly what they didn't get to do! He didn't get to be by her side as she was dying, not right up until the very end when she was too weak to really speak. But a part of me imagines Lucy saying that to herself about the feeling that Arthur is with her when she's got his blood transfused in. She was feeling better afterwards but may still have been scared about the future, and comforting herself a little like this, I don't know...

The repeated "don't look for me, I'm just a story you've been told" alters to Lucy not wanting Arthur to have to face the truth of what she's become at the end - a vampire. It would kind of fit with her wanting Van Helsing to protect Arthur and a final sad match of trying to spare a loved one pain which has plagued her storyline throughout. "When we're gone / everything goes on" again for him moving on after her death...

After that point I feel like the lyrics shift to Arthur's POV for the next few lines. He's the one who sees her "tethered in your room", he's the one who would want to "bring the sea to you"... "Will you meet me in the daylight / like we did before? / then I felt you on my shoulder / and you weren't suffering anymore" becomes a really sad lyric about his thoughts after staking vampire!Lucy. But then it kind of shifts back to Lucy again apologizing for making him worry, she's the one telling him to forget her, he's the one remembering and wanting to pretend a little longer after she's dead, but everything goes on still and he has to carry on living without her...

[gigigle]

I'm bored so these are changes I would make to stranger things.

S1, honestly nothing, s1 is probably my favorite season. The most I would do is make Steve a more apparent a hole. And keep mlvn platonic.

S2, I would've leaned into the difference of the party more and their struggles. Also I wouldn't have had El live in the cabin. I would've preferred if she was hidden but not from the party and we get to see her adjust to not living in the lab anymore. I would've also preferred to see stancy be platonic and see Steve grow and try to learn to be friends with Nancy and Jonathan. Also more pushback against Steve from party members. Like he used make fun of Mike and Dustin or Smth and they don't like him also show his decline from popularity too.

I also would've leaned in to Lucas and Billy's story where it actually talks about racism and the micro aggressions Lucas faces living in a small town like Hawkins. I also would've had a storyline about the ableism Dustin receives andaybe that could set up the Steve and Dustin friendship where Steve defends him from Carol and tommy. Also have Dustin give Steve pushback from him messing with Dustin before. To actually give Steve more depth and development.

Also I think I would have gotten rid of the possession storyline and just had will dealing with the trauma and aftermath of the upside down and have a Lonnie storyline in there too. Where maybe he's trying to get custody so he can get some of the money that Joyce gets paid by the government. And we see more in depth how awful Lonnie really was to Jonathan and will. Also show Joyce's struggles being branded the town hysterical women and trying to fight her abusive ex husband while also trying to take care of will. It would also show Jonathans neglect/how he's kinda the glass child and how he takes more shift to help pay for stuff. I would still have jancy get together though at some point.

And mike I think show how his family is distant but not really go into it till s3. So s2 is just developing his relationships with El and will.

Keep max the same. And still have El run away to kalis grew.

For Nancy I think I wouldve had her still looking in to more of the stuff about barb and the ud and the government but I think I would get rid of Murray because I think In my changes he doesn't fit.

Also show hopper trying to figure out being a dad again.

S3, i would get rid of the mind flayer and all the Russian stuff. I would've kept vecna but slowly introduced him. Started developing jopper more and show El navigating real normal life and maybe have her go to school. And keep max and El.

Get rid of the mall and keep Robin but have her and Steve meet because she is friends with Nancy or Jonathan so that she is connected more. Or have her have friendships with them after she becomes better friends with Steve.

I would give Mike a storyline where he doesn't feel connected to his family at all. Like you show all the other family dynamics and introduce Erica to show how much more connected the other party's family are. Like have Mike jealous of will and Jonathan and Lucas and Erica because of how close they are but him and Nancy barely talk. It would've been interesting and added depth to his character and show his I love you problem.

I also would've shown more of Max's abusive home life and show how it affects her relationship with Lucas. Like max exhibits toxic behavior to Lucas because shes angry about billy and Neil and she lashes out at Lucas. It could've also had scene where Lucas establishes boundaries and tells her he's doesn't like how she treats him. And have her learn that it's wrong and apologize to Lucas.

I also think for Lucas we could have him join basketball this season and see the party reactions to it. I feel like it would've shown more depth in their friendships.

I think I would've pushed El getting kidnapped by the government this season and replace the hopper fake death with els kidnapping. And have billy be the first vecna victim as another cliff hanger.

I would've kept jancy the same and their argument about classism/poverty vs misogyny in the workplace. Because that argument was really good because they were both right and wrong.

Have El develop familial relationships with Joyce and will and Jonathan because maybe she lives with them for school or something.

I also would show will struggles with being gay and the ud more

S4, instead of Eddie blamed have it be the party because Neil tells the police it was them cause of DND. And have the season be the party on the run and hiding out in town to try and figure out what's going on. Also show max struggling with Billy's death and the mystery.

Have hopper and Joyce be the ones who go to rescue El from the lab. Have Steve Nancy Jonathan and Robin be the ones dealing with Hawkins.

I'm done now. But these are just off the top of my head and aren't explained the best.

[archandshri]

The Lionheart Brothers Bookcover (part - 2) from Shri - 01/03/24

Hi Archie

That sounds like exciting stuff! Absolutely loved seeing the Riso come together colour by colour!

Also, I'm super happy that you're letting your (comfort?) characters marine in your head for a while! There is nothing more fun and relaxing than just imagining your comfort characters interact/go through their story with no pressure of making it a 'good' story.

I constantly have my comfort characters go through self-indulgent story structures e.g. sickfic vibes or hurt/comfort storylines (have I imagined many of those sorts of scenes before? yes. Will I image it again? yes.

Anyway, getting into part 2 now.

When sketching these first few ideas, I was completely free and open, not limiting myself to any boundaries yet.

The only thing I was roughly keeping in mind was the visual cues and elements of the book. These included elements such as the Dove, Cutler (the bag guy), the brothers and the house. I was also really loosely thinking about composition, and how the dynamics of the story/character will affect the composition.

You can see me thinking about the relationship of the characters further here, playing around with this big dark shadowy figure taking up most of the page, Showing how this ominous creature is in control/power.

Elements I considered 

Brothers' closeness (showing that in their physical closeness to each other on the page and their body language)

peaceful with overshadowing danger (either with a shadow figure or maybe the dove being shot?)

Rusky (younger brother) follows/wants to be more like his older brother Jonathan

This is why in a lot of the images I drew I purposely put Rusky below Jonathan/or following him somewhere, this is to show how Rusky isn't where his brother is but is striving to get there. This was quite difficult to get as making them close yet having this relationship dynamic was had to capture.

This is where I had to now put on my critical hat and really ask what sketch serves the book better. Although I absolutely adore the cover with them on the horses and the one what them climbing the mountain together. They didn't quite convey the message/story the book had, so I went with the last one.

My notes I took at the time.

First Image (Brothers on horses)

I love this cover but it really doesn't tell us anything about the bother, except that they have a good relationship. 

Second image (climbing up a mountain)

I think the dynamic feel to the cover, again shows the brother's bravery

There are more journey vibes in this sketch (which might be better to fit with the beginning of the book?)

Third Image (facing of the bad guy with a creature in the back)

I think this is the best image in showing the conflict between the brothers and Tengil while also showing their bravery.

To push the brother's notice aspect in the story I'll need to tweak

I'm pushing the sketch further by simplifying it so I can figure out the overall shapes and silhouettes.

Notes at the time:

Poses of the brothers

Rusky runs behind to catch up with his brother

Rusky still holding hands but behind his brother looking back into the camera

This was to show how Rusky is still trying to catch up to his older brother both physically and metaphorically.

Though having them holding hands shows this closeness between them, so shows this dynamic relationship where Rusky (the younger brother) is trying to be as great as his older brother but also having a wholesome relationship.

I roughly put in the values.

At this point, this is where the trouble strikes.

The image above is just not sitting right. theoretically it makes sense but the whole image just feels weird

so I continued to play around with the existing image (see above), playing around with adding elements and text.

It just continued to not sit right. Although I did consider just colouring it in any way, I went back to the drawing board and relook at this cover.

Thought at the time:

Issues

Redline work looks like a psychological horror

The vibe of cover feels a bit too menacing/sentence for the sweet and quant feel of the book

Too much happening???

Here I'm just going ham and playing with more graphic/competition shapes to see if I feel like I can get anything else

Notes at the time

Likes 

Really like what the border brings, it brings room/space, something to play with (shapes) and it gives the tone of the book a more fairytale/old feel which was something really lacking before.

Dislikes

posing of brothers not really encapsulating abortions

Then I had a whole Slide just ranting about this project and why I can't seem to get the image to fit right.

I am very frustrated because the image is just not working. This is because I believe iced over complicated it and it doesn't have enough space to breathe with is something I appreciate in imagery

At this point, I am truly lost. So when you are in any sense lost in a project, you always go back to one point.

What are you trying to say?

I was to show Rusky's bravery and wanting to be like his brother. I want to show his bravery in helping liberate Wild Rose Village (they live in Cherry Village) and liberate Wild Rose Village.

Character at the bottom (to show weakness and powerless) but Vertical lines to show their energetic and rebellious motions. (Molly Bang)

The dictator guy needs to be at the top of the page because he has total control of Wild Rose Village (not Cherry Valley yet), However, he only has this power because of the horn that controls Cutla, otherwise, he's not that bad.

What do I want to convey:

Vie Text: Lionheart Brothers, Brave and Courageous bothers

Via Image:

I want to convey their wholesome relationship

Shorshadow Cutla 

Duve 

That rusky is becoming braver like his brother

I'll see you in the last part! (it gets better from here :))

Hope you have a lovely week

Shri

[jonathanbyersphd]

What made you start shipping jancy originially? Or byler?

Hi Jay,

I love this question & I'm going to answer for both. To like preface all of this I started watching ST a little bit after s2 (I saw the Steve Handclap edit I am only human and the irony is not lost on me)

So with Jancy, from the jump my interest was peaked bc wow Charlie & Nat have amazing chemistry (also bc my truth that sounds like a lie is that I've always been a stanky hater) I think for me it was that they seemed to fit together better than Nancy and Steve, and they made a good team, I liked their early Will they won't they dynamic as frustrating as it was, also their storyline was just more compelling to me. But I didn't actively ship them until episode 6 when he pulled her from the tree and then I watched the rest of s1 and desperately wanted them to get together. So imagine how pissed I was when they did not get together. Then I watched s2 like waiting and hoping for them to figure it out (the Halloween scene of him carrying her home was/is so important to me) and I was thankfully rewarded.

For Byler, the WILDEST thing is that I did not actively ship until I joined the ST fandom on Tumblr almost a year ago. Again, this is going to sound like a lie but I never really liked Milkvan & I ended up skipping a lot of their scenes in s3 bc I was so over it. I think I was ambivalent to them at best they were just kinda there for me. I will say the first time I watched s3 I def could tell something else was going on in the rain fight but I, like a lot of people I think, thought it was just that they were trying to tell us that Will is gay. Anyways, I don't remember if I read the masterdoc or finally just saw enough posts but eventually I started shipping Byler for a lot of the same reasons I ship Jancy: the chemistry, the fact that it's a more compelling ship for both characters, I LOVE a good friends to lovers and because I want Will Byers to be happy damnit

The tldr of it all is that I love what Jancy and Byler offer Jonathan & Nancy/ Will & Mike as characters

Thanks for the ask!

[blairwaldcrf]

out of curiosity, which gg pairings (canon or otherwise) do you think would have been the most likely to have a happy endgame, and why?

1. All of them need therapy first in my biased opinion (whether or not they'd actually do it.)

2. Dan ships genuinely depend on whether you choose to believe Dan is gossip girl

but! let's say past 6x01 is someone's filmed for tv crack!fic and go from there

canon

dair: just their compatibility and ability to communicate and talk through things is genuinely the greatest indicator of how they'd fair long term. they have that foundation of becoming best friends. I do think they'd be able to work through 5x23 with time.

serenate: foundation of friendship, deep love for each other, similar personalities, similar struggles with how they're viewed by society. They'd have some trust to rebuild, but definitely not as much as other couples. (they'd even be able to stay in the canon jobs they'd hate!)

Eric/Jonathan: enough said

jennate: while it's not my personal cup of tea, they do have that foundation of being good friends who confide in each other and communicate, and i can see that carrying them into happiness. @terrainofheartfelt has a beautiful fic of them as adults

natessa: as @strideofpride would say, Nate is literally a Boyfriend™ guy. they had a lot of happiness and were able to communicate through most of their issues. it wouldn't work if nate stayed in politics in my opinion, but that's also a product of me hating nate living the nepo baby life and projecting that onto vanessa.

rufly: when they worked, they WORKED. i don't remember enough of their storyline post mr. VDW leaving after being caught (I think because it got sadder and sadder and i blocked it out) but I think the love was there and they'll always be in each other's lives with how intertwined their children are anyways that I can see them winding up trying again. it's not like they haven't pulled each other back in after decades apart before to begin with lol

non-canon

serenessa: hear me out. they just have so much chemistry in the early seasons if nothing else, and i think they could work together in film/writing/directing so easily?? like... Brown and RISD are on the same campus. Secondly, they clearly have the same taste in boys and there's plenty of people who see Serena as the female equivalent of Nate with Vanessa to Dan. (mostly joking there but)

dan/nate: they have mutual respect for each other, even handled Serena's indecision together fairly well all things considered and i think that's pretty huge tbh. they have a foundation of friendship and communication and they complement each other. nate has a stillness to him that Serena doesn't and I can see him better fitting a life together with dan.

dairthaniel: i mean. I'm about one third of their tag on ao3, so.

[kurokoros]

As we are talking about Steve's character rn, I completely agree with anything you said so far. To add to the whole s3/s4 treatment, I just hate the whole "babygirlyfication" by the fandom because of how s3/s4 was written. Like if I hear the word babygirl one more time. I think what annoys me the most about it is that in Steve's case, babygirl=stupid himbo loser, and ughh, I just hate it so much. Yes he wore that dumb sailor outfit but he hated it every second he had to be in it, but the fandom overlooks that completely and decided yeah Steve loves to dress feminine and all (mostly to pair him up with other characters like Eddie and to subject him into weird ship dynamics where he's like the submissive partner). I swear, ever since s3 people think Steve is so helpless in everything, they also act like he's a super virgin who just can't get anyone, which contradicts s1/s2 Steve. I mean, okay, he could have had a funk in s3 bc of Nancy, but the show over exaggerated it to a point it was so ooc. I think the scene I hated the most in s3 is his last one, where he needed Robin to get him the job at FV because apparently he hadn't seen any movie prior to this day (despite being a huge Tom Cruise fan). It's so annoying really because they simplified him so much. He could be such a great character with depth, but nope. And the fandom perpetuates this by making him the dumb babygirl his entire personality. You're literally one of the few people trying to pick up after s2 and develop him in a way that makes more sense than what the show did.

Other characters the show did dirty after s2 are Hopper (bc what was up with him in s3 like it was actually scary), Joyce, Mike, Jonathan (well actually he got fucked over by being Nancy's accessory since s2) and partially Dustin esp in s4. The writers needed a department that overlooks character contingency because those are not the same ones we watched in s1/s2. I love Stranger Things, I do, but my god, the wasted character potential sometimes keeps me up at night. I'm not a talented writer, I try my best, but even I would have come up with better storylines or at least make sure they stay the same characters.

The whole "babygirl Steve" thing makes me want to eat glass. Like, I get mad when I think about how they went the himbo route with Steve instead of continuing the "jerk with a heart of gold" characterization they had going for two seasons, and to see the fandom just constantly make "babygirl Steve!" jokes irritates the hell out of me. I don't want to be that bitch who says you aren't allowed to headcanon characters certain ways, or you aren't allowed to project on characters, but damn some of the Steve stans genuinely make me question whether or not they actually like him in the first place. Like... Steve is a masculine guy! But people saw that he has a haircare routine and cares about hygiene and decided that makes him feminine to fit a queer stereotype so they can ship him with the two most mediocre white boys the show could offer.

And it really is super fucking weird that S3 "babygirl" Steve is portrayed as less intelligent and more pathetic than he was in S1/2. It's infantilizing. And the sailor suit makes it worse. If I could change one thing about ST I would get rid of that stupid fucking sailor suit. The show really did just make Steve seem pathetic in S3, and it was done in a way that I just don't understand why anyone who actually likes Steve would enjoy what they did.

Along with the "Steve can't get a job on his own" (which doesn't make sense if he was apparently a trained lifeguard. this man would have actual references aside from his mother if that was the case) thing, I have a bone to pick with the recurring gag of "Steve doesn't get pop culture references". Like??? Steve was a popular kid in school??? He would know movies (if only because movies are a super common date activity and there's a theater in Hawkins).

I refuse to acknowledge S3-4 as canon in any of my fics because of how much I despise the way canon botched most of the characters. There was so much potential there, and instead they just made Steve a loser with no charm. The Duffers for sure need someone in charge of characters. And plot. And worldbuilding. And overall consistency.

Basically, the Duffers need to hire actually good writers and just stick to directing.

[aggressiveviking]

jargyle for the ship ask game?

tbh for this one I'm not sure what to say about. perhaps i would have to say that i don’t actively ship it

Why don’t I ship it? Well its not for the reason you would assume! I actually think that perhaps they are a good fit together, more than a lot of other ships out there. And I would probably 100% ship it--- if i was interested in the characters. Sadly I'm not. I've had a dislike for Jonathan since season 1 and while my dislike might have melted away with time, it didn't tranfrom into me liking his character. I just don't really care for him, don't have an interest in him. For Argyle i would say that he looked like an intersting character but again he didn't really spark any interest in me the way other characters have. I guess a part of the reason I'm not particularly interested is because I'm not into weed culture. I understand it, sure, but my experiences with it were nothing special, leaning more to unpleasant. So I'm just not drawn to that and its not relatable to me. I just can't understand the characters (their motivations and though process, etc).

What would have made you like it? I'm not sure tbh. Its not because the characters were not at all relatable to me. There are some things I can relate to in Jonathan, and perhaps that is one of the reasons why I didn't like him. But i also think that just the characters storylines were boring to me. I was really not interested in anything they were doing and that perhaps is the main reason for my apathy toward them.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it? I think that Argyle is a very cute and sweet character with a unique look to him. I like his optimism and good heart and i really think that he is a good influence to Jonathan and would be a better fit for him than Nancy, who is more concerned with herself than with him. Deep inside i believe Jonathan is a sweet person, he is loyal and selfsacrificing. His ability to put his own needs second is in my opinion his downfall especially in his relationship with Nancy, because she uses that quality in him. While i believe that Argyle would probably help nurture more selflove in Jonathan if they were together as he is a supportive person who wouldn't allow Jonathan to sacriface himself for his sake and understand the importance of family to him. Those are just my casual thought on it. I have not focused too much on these characters and can't say that my perception of them is accurate

[popblank]

Year-end roundup of theater I saw in 2023:

I saw a lot this year (29 unique shows with a couple of repeats). Part of the reason is probably that I spent money on tickets more freely because I was working a lot more than usual.

Notes or links to separate posts below:

Mean Girls (tour; Pantages) – The strengths are in the original movie material and added character development, while the music is just enough to support the story. Fun, though not sure I'd call it good.

Topdog/Underdog (Broadway) – Fantastic performances from both Corey Hawkins and Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. Not particularly interested in con artist/gambler storylines but it fit the themes.

A Strange Loop (Broadway) – Amazing, totally get why it won Best Musical. Viewing experience was enhanced by a responsive audience. I'm excited to see it in LA and crossing my fingers that it gets a decent reception.

Kimberly Akimbo (Broadway) – Hadn't read much about it and was unprepared for how funny it was and how strong the cast was across the board. Favorite little absurdity was how the show choir kids are slowly drawn into Debra's scheme. The cast recording captures a decent part of the humor and was my most-played album in 2023.

Merrily We Roll Along (Off-Broadway) – Not sure I can imagine a better casting for Franklin Shepard than Jonathan Groff.

Wicked (Broadway) – Hadn't seen it in over a decade and felt like revisiting. It was fine; Elphaba and Fiyero seemed to have good chemistry.

Leopoldstadt (Broadway) – If I had the time and money I would just follow Caissie Levy and Brandon Uranowitz around to see whatever they are in. In a 2+ hour show with no intermission I never got bored.

Frozen (tour; Segerstrom) – Had previously seen this pre-pandemic so most of the cast had changed, though Caroline Bowman was still Elsa and was good. A number of the new cast seemed very young.

The Secret Garden (Ahmanson)

Kristina Wong, Sweatshop Overlord (Kirk Douglas)

The Lonely Few (2x) (Geffen Playhouse)

Sunday in the Park with George (Pasadena Playhouse) – First time I’ve ever seen this show (or listened to the music with any level of attention), and while I enjoyed it for the most part—particularly Act 1—I really struggled to care about modern George’s professional and personal difficulties in creating his art. I did like the music and can’t say I was ever bored, but in the end I was (to my surprise) thoroughly unmoved. One notable thing was that the sound in the theater was great. Everything was remarkably clear and I could understand all of the rapid-fire lyrics very well considering I was not very familiar with the music.

Twilight: Los Angeles 1992 (Mark Taper Forum) – Staged with multiple actors; unfortunately I don't remember much about it as I did not take any notes.

1776 (2x)

Kiss of the Spider Woman (A Noise Within) – The play, not the musical. Enjoyed it, thought Molina in particular was well performed.

Six (tour, Pantages) – Had listened to the studio cast recording and enjoyed it but the songs do tend to work better with the little bit of context provided by the show.

A Little Night Music (Pasadena Playhouse) – Another first-time Sondheim show for me; I liked the music (more so than Sunday in the Park With George), acting was strong, but I had difficulty caring much about the interpersonal drama.

A Soldier's Play (tour, Ahmanson) – Didn't take notes afterward; mostly I remember that Norm Lewis's speaking voice is startlingly resonant.

Tina (tour, Pantages) – Saw this only a few weeks after her death; the Playbill cover had been redesigned to acknowledge it and I think the cast and audience were still feeling that impact. It was pretty good for a straight-ahead biographical jukebox musical.

A Transparent Musical

Into the Woods

Beetlejuice

Les Misérables (tour, Pantages) – Heard the latest tour cast was really good, and it was; it hit the emotional beats well. Particularly liked Fantine (here's a local morning-show performance of "I Dreamed a Dream"), Javert, and Valjean, actually liked Gavroche for a change, and this production got rid of a character direction I absolutely hated (Grantaire's melodramatic wail after the "Little People" reprise).

Heroes of the Fourth Turning

Peter Pan Goes Wrong (Ahmanson) – Entertaining and funny though didn't quite hit my sense of humor dead on.

Here Lies Love (Broadway) – Was really glad to have the opportunity to see this because I missed the original production 10 years ago and regretted it. Sat in the front mezzanine which seemed just fine and provided an overall good view of the action in almost every direction. Particularly liked Conrad Ricamora (very charismatic) as Ninoy Aquino and Jose Llana as Marcos. Staging, audience participation, projections, etc. were essential to communicating the message of the show. I like the music and have the original cast recording but it would be very easy to misunderstand the tone from only listening to the recording.

The Sound Inside (Pasadena Playhouse) – Saw this in the middle of being swamped at work so my memory of this is a bit sparse. I remember being uncertain of how to react at the end of the show (same for the audience I was in) but thinking about it afterward the ideas and themes came together more clearly.

A Christmas Story (Ahmanson) – A pleasant and family-friendly show; lots of kids in the cast. Have never seen the movie. There were some high points (e.g. the big tap number featuring Miss Shields and a bunch of children singing "You'll Shoot Your Eye Out" as Prohibition-era gangsters and flappers) but I was bored for a good portion of the show. The portrayal of motherhood is very traditional.

MJ the Musical (tour; Pantages) – Was wondering how Lynn Nottage would handle the book. At first the "in rehearsal for the Dangerous tour" setup seemed like an interesting framing, but ultimately I don't think it went anywhere interesting dramatically or emotionally, or communicated much that wasn't already known even to non-Michael Jackson fans. The part from the Tony Awards performance is the high point of the show IMO.

[lunar-years]

I like Steve. He's gotten better at being nice. But I just have a feeling that he wouldn't have been helpful during the scene where Nancy gets fired in season 3. He just gives me a vibe where he tries to be comforting but it isn't comforting. It just makes Nancy feel like she's overreacting.

Hi! I find the fandom worship of Steve and the meme-ification of his storyline very irritating, but I do like Steve, too.

Obviously though, I don't think he and Nancy are a good fit. This is in large part because I don't think he really understands nor listens to her...so no, I don't think he'd have been what she needed in season 3 at all. For one thing, Steve trying and failing to comfort Nancy canonically contributes to their breakup in season 2. It's not like he's actively trying to be an asshole about her grief and trauma and shame re: Barb, but he doesn't understand her experience at all and is so caught up in himself and his own mindset that he doesn't put in much of an effort into listening to her to try and figure it out. He's grown since then, but even in season 4, after Nancy returns from being "vecna'ed" and is visibly extremely upset/emotional about just having witnessed a future where her entire family dies, Steve's reaction is "don't you think he's just trying to scare you though Nancy?" Like...what? That's not comforting. In fact, it's kind of grossly dismissive considering the circumstances and events going on up to that point (like where have you been Steve? lol), not to mention that he supposedly has feelings for her again??? To me, s4 Steve is only in love with the idea of Nancy while not actually knowing Nancy at all. He hasn't known her for years, and that's if he ever really knew her to begin with (which I think is questionable).

One of my favorite moments in season 3 is when Nancy's mom gets to be the person who ultimately comforts her post-firing. Karen's really the only one who can be there for Nancy in that moment, because she deeply understands where her daughter's frustrations and anger and hurt are stemming from. That scene is so lovely. And Jonathan and Nancy then make up once Jonathan has taken the time to reflect on what Nancy said to him--because he did listen to her--and recognize that he wasn't seeing or appreciating her perspective and its truths.

I have the possibly controversial(?) opinion of really liking the s3 jancy fight, because they're ultimately both right, they're just dealing with the very real and heavy ramifications of sexism and classism, respectively, and their lines are crossed; They're caught up in themselves, and they're unable to see each other's points of view, but they are able to come back to each other after Jonathan steps back and sees Nancy's side of things. (Now, the very major issue here is that Nancy never does the same -onscreen- for Jonathan, Jonathan doesn't get a scene where his mom or frankly anyone comforts him or validates that his perspective and fears on the situation were just as valid as Nancy's, and the resolution in the hospital elevator is super quick and sloppy with no follow-up. But this ask wasn't really about that, was it, so I'll shut up now--)

[beepboop358]

The Opera in the HNL Control Room Video Hints to S4

I don't know if this has been done before or not but I did this right after the tweets dropped, but I wasn't posting then so I'm posting it now LOL (better late than never right?)

On May 5th, 2021, one day before the May 6 release of the ""Eleven are you listening?" teaser (002/004), the Stranger writers tweeted this:

with the accompanying video:

The opera that's playing in the background is "Quand Le Bien-Aime Reviendra" which translates from French to English as "When The Beloved Will Return"

I’ve also seen it translated as "When My Sweetheart Returns To Me”. (any french speakers please correct me/google translate if it’s wrong)

Next I looked up what this opera's plot is about, because there has to be a reason they picked this specific thing to play in the background, nothing they do is random xD

At first when I saw father and daughter detail I thought of Hopper and El, but I reallllyyyy don't think it's referencing them. For one, El won't end up with Mike because he's gay and in love with Will, so El can't fulfill the "marrying her lover" part of this story. There's also no references to Hopper's death/reappearance in here if he is the father character.

It's the daughter's lover that disappears and returns after fighting his enemy, and the daughter goes "mad" thinking he has died. Germeuil (the lover) is "the beloved" the opera title refers too. The father is not a super important part of the picture here. This opera is more about a couple than a father/daughter or parent/child.

So that leave's us with two possibilities for who this opera could be referencing:

1. Joyce is Nina, and Hopper is Germeuil.

OR

2. Will is Nina, and Mike is Germeuil.

3. A third possibility is that the Opera references BOTH Jopper and Byler in s4, or just some aspects of the opera's storyline for each couple.

Possibility 1: The opera references Jopper

Germeuil (Hopper) fights his enemy and disappears:

Hopper has already disappeared in a fight with the enemy. He was fighting the Russians & the upside down during all of s3, and he disappears or during the final battle of s3, with Joyce literally watching the fight between Hopper and the Russian happen right as she's trying to close the gate.

Nina (Joyce) goes mad and forgets details of the traumatic event:

Just like I mentioned in my Victor Creel Theories post, there are several hints throughout the show to mental instability running in Joyce's family, and Nina is described as going "mad" when her lover (Germeuil/Hopper) disappears and she thinks he has died. Everyone thinks Hopper is dead, Joyce included. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that Hopper's death will send Joyce spiraling, and cause her to forget the details of the event due to psychological distress.

Possibility 2: The opera references Byler

Germeuil (Mike) fights his enemy and disappears:

Mike wasn’t seen in the recent st4 sneak peek teaser (but neither were Jonathan, Argyle, and Joyce (unknown if Will is the one in front of the burning car but I think it is), and Finn was the only person who posted a picture of the clock with the caption “In the upside down, meanwhile…” and not “Meanwhile, in the upside down…”, like all the other cast members and official ST accounts. He never fixed the caption, which leads me to believe it wasn’t a mistake, but rather a clue. I wonder what this means for Mike’s storyline this season - does he get stuck in the upside down somehow?

Germeuil (Mike) fighting the enemy probably refers to some upside down monster, and he gets taken to the upside down during a battle or something.

And Nina (Will) goes mad and forgets details of the traumatic event:

Nina is described as "forgetting aspects of the traumatic incident in a manner consistent with a diagnosis of psychogenic amnesia"

"Psychogenic amnesia or dissociative amnesia is a memory disorder characterized by sudden retrograde episodic memory loss, said to occur for a period of time ranging from hours to years. More recently, "dissociative amnesia" has been defined as a dissociative disorder" characterized by retrospectively reported memory gaps. These gaps involve an inability to recall personal information, usually of a traumatic or stressful nature"

There's a popular theory out there that Will has Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), and while DID is not the same thing as dissociative amnesia, there is the same dissociative aspect in both where the person represses/forgets memories that are traumatic to them. I recommend you read @kaypeace21's theory on this here and here.

If Mike was to disappear into the Upside down, it would certainly take a big toll on Will, which may cause him to go "Mad" (again hints of mental instability in Joyce's family, and Will is Joyce's son) This event may also bring out a more hardcore and powerful side of Will, and could trigger memories of his own life that he has forgotten. It could also be what makes Will face the lab/the monster this season.

Noah said this would be Will's darkest season, and my mind immediately goes "darker than getting possessed by an evil inter-dimensional monster who wants to kill everyone? How is that gonna work?"

But this theory is pretty dark, and it just might fit the description.

It also might fit in with the theory that Will may be one of the test subjects in the "Eleven are you listening?" teaser, which goes along with the theory that Will may have a connection to the lab beyond his relation to it in s2, which I discussed in my post about how Will, Sara, and El are all connected.

Anyways, this is all just speculation right now since nothing is confirmed, but it's interesting to think about how this opera might hint to s4 storylines.

[thestobingirlie]

i think it was an intentional writing choice to not have steve interact with hopper, will or el. it also sets him apart from jonathan when it comes to his relationships. steve is closer to dustin, max, erica and to an extent lucas; but he will never be portrayed as close to mike, el or will because jonathan is portrayed to be closer to will, el and mike (makes sense as will and el are basically his siblings and he's known mike longer since mike is will's best friend from kindergarten and he is also the person who is dating el). steve is portrayed as a jock (albeit a good guy who lost his popularity to an extent) and sportive, jonathan is portrayed as more of a artistic (his hobby being photographing), steve is portrayed as less oriented and just wants a family life, jonathan is portrayed as more goal oriented with dreams like following a career path related to his hobby, etc. they have similarities like steve taking care of other party members, but jonathan is genuinely parentified from an earlier age which seems to be connected to his traumatic life experience and family life due to lonnie's actions.

i completely disagree, considering hopper and jonathan haven’t had a conversation since s1.

i do not think the duffers have consciously gone into jonathan and steve’s relationships with the thought of trying to portray them as opposites. especially considering they’re actually pretty similar. like, steve and dustin wasn’t even really an intentional relationship, the duffers just shoved them together because they had no idea what else to do with them. it just happened to be a gold mine.

the reason mike is more with jonathan is because mike’s storylines revolve around will. and will is often part of the first main plot, whereas steve is normally secondary.

and honestly, this may just be my opinion, but as seasons have passed both jonathan and steve have lost more and more of their personality so they can better fit the roles they were shoved into.

steve had to become the dumb babysitter, and jonathan became nancy’s sidekick. which is why, i think, a lot of people had issue with the way jonathan was portrayed in s4, because the duffers honestly don’t know what to do with him without nancy.

like, for example, jonathan’s two choices are stay with his family, or go to college with nancy. not nyu, which has been jonathan’s dream since he was seven years old. his choices are brother, or nancy’s boyfriend. and it SUCKS.

and the same with steve, everything about his dreams revolves around relationships, he doesn’t seem to have hobbies anymore, we’re never even met his family. these characters have become nothing.

so, yeah. i don’t think the duffers planned to split the cast down the middle so that jonathan and steve don’t seem too similar. i don’t think they really care enough about them to think that much.

[marwritesgood]

Betty | J. Byers

Pairing: Jonathan x Reader

Timeframe: Season 2 AU

Summary: [Based on Betty - Taylor Swift] Back from summer break, Jonathan must face the consequences of his actions and try to win back Y/n.

masterlist

A/N: folklore and evermore have been played on repeat in my home ever since they were first dropped, so i have a few more fics lined up based on their songs :) 

betty was ofc the first song i wanted to write a fic about (bc the storyline is right there) and i felt jonathan was a perfect fit! 

hope you enjoy this one for now x

Hawkins High School was not known for throwing good proms. Quite the opposite. Their proms were rarely well-organised, typically overcrowded, and always overhyped. Most students only attended the event just to go to the after-party, which would be held at Tina’s place this year. 

This made prom appealing to a vast number of Hawkins High School students. Jonathan Byers was not one. However, against his better judgement, he reluctantly fished out the only suit he owned and made way into the Hawkins High School gymnasium, just to see Y/n one last time before she left to spend summer break with her grandmother in New York. 

“You made it,” Y/n chirped as she approached Jonathan at the gym’s entrance. She placed her hands on the lapels of his coat and kissed him softly on the cheek. Jonathan’s cheek turned red as a sheepish grin grew apparent on his face. 

Suddenly, he was no longer reluctant to stay at the prom but rather more than eager to oblige.

“C’mon, we gotta get our picture taken while there’s no line.” Y/n grabbed Jonathan’s shoulder and pulled him towards the photographer. 

They were only juniors, and Y/n had every intention of dragging Jonathan to the school gym again for their senior prom, but she still wanted the memorabilia. As the photographer finished setting their camera up, Y/n turned to her prom date and smiled.

“Thank you for coming,” she whispered to him. “I know you’re not really into these kinds of things... so I’m really glad you came.”

“I am too,” Jonathan whispered. 

His relationship with Y/n was one he had deemed to be filled with fear and uncertainty. While he was a social outcast, Y/n was a social butterfly. Jonathan thought it a pure miracle that their paths ever crossed in the first place. However, after Y/n held his hand, the night Will returned and continued to do so even after he tried to insist that he was ok, their stance as mere friends changed.

Their relationship progressed to something that neither of them had yet defined, but both were much enjoying. When they weren’t studying in the living room of his home, they were making out in his car, and Y/n was over at the Byers’ so frequently, Joyce bought an extra chair for their table just for her.

Y/n grinned before gripping Jonathan by his lapel and gently pulling him closer. He held his breath as she kissed him. Whether it was the way her vanilla chapstick tasted or the way she wrapped her arms around his neck, Jonathan loved the way Y/n kissed him.

The sound of the camera shuttering and the sight of its flash prompted the two to quickly pull apart. Y/n turned to the photographer before glancing back at Jonathan and smiling.

“All the photos are going to the yearbook club,” she explained. “Think you could put aside a copy of that of one for me?”

To answer her request, Jonathan smirked before leaning closer to her and kissing her softly. Y/n was beaming. She took hold of his hand, intertwined her fingers with his before heading towards the snack table. 

She spent the next hour standing with him in a secluded corner within the gym. While Y/n was dying to greet her friends and classmates as they came in, she knew Jonathan came specifically for her and didn’t want to leave him alone. However, she soon felt that seeing him loosen up despite hating events like prom was worth it.

As the crowd grew, Jonathan tried not to succumb to his instincts. He tried to focus his attention on Y/n and away from how much he would instead be spending his Friday night at home instead of his school’s gym.

For the most part, it was working. The way her eyes lit up as she told him about her day and about all the tedious tasks she had to singlehandedly carry out as the leader of the prom committee made him forget about all the things that gave him grief. 

However, their conversation was interrupted when a sophomore approached Y/n and whispered something about the lighting. Just as Jonathan feared, Y/n turned to him and frowned apologetically before explaining that she had to leave momentarily.

“I am so sorry,” she murmured. “I will be right back after. It should only take a minute.” 

Jonathan, unable to hold it against Y/n that she was a bloody committed committee leader, nodded before glancing down at his half-empty cup of fruit punch. Suddenly, it became harder for him to ignore how desperately out of place he felt. From the conversations he could hear, it seemed he wasn’t the only one aware of this.

“Can you believe she went from Tommy H to that dork?” He heard Carol say to Tina. The two of them stood a decent distance away from Jonathan, but with nothing else to distract him, he subconsciously focused his attention so he could hear better.

“Meh,” Tina scoffed, glancing over to Jonathan before turning back to Carol. “I give it another week before she dumps him too?”

It was the source of his biggest insecurity in their relationship. Y/n had several boyfriends before Jonathan, all significantly more popular than he could have hoped to be. Yet, for him, Y/n was the first girl who even came close to being his girlfriend. It was part of the reason he hesitated so much to actually call her his girlfriend- the thought that he didn’t mean as much to her as she did to him.

Perhaps they were temporary, Jonathan thought. Maybe it would only be a matter of time before she got tired of standing in the secluded corner of a room filled with people just to accommodate him. Maybe she would move on to someone closer to her social standing. Maybe Y/n would go back to Tommy H, or Miles, or Steve.

The thought was enough to make him want to give in and leave. However, just as Jonathan discarded his cup in the trash and turned to leave, Y/n had returned and tugged his arm gently, prompting him to turn back.

“Hey, I’m sorry about that,” she said. “But good news... I gave the band leader five bucks to play a slow song next, so... do you wanna dance?”

Jonathan panned his eyes across the room and noticed several students glance at the two of them. Some turned back to their dates and laughed while others turned around and grimaced. While the likelihood they were reacting to something completely different was high, Jonathan could not shake the feeling that they were laughing at him. He could not bear the thought of dancing amongst them.

“Uhh-” Jonathan spoke as he turned back to Y/n. “I think I’ll just stay here.”

Y/n frowned. She knew Jonathan hated the crowds, but she hoped he would withstand one measly dance for her. For the better part of their relationship, she went out of her way to do the things he wanted. Y/n opted for nights in with him as opposed to parties at her friends’ places. She learned to enjoy dates with him from the comfort of his home and, at other times, his car. It did not seem unreasonable to Y/n to be upset that he wouldn’t dance with her.

“This is my last night in Hawkins before I leave for 10 weeks,” she stated sadly. “... and you don’t even wanna dance with me?”

“C-Could we,” Jonathan stuttered. “Could we just leave for a bit? Just get some air outside and then come back?”

“No, Jonathan, I can’t just leave,” Y/n replied in annoyance. “I’m responsible if something goes wrong... I kinda have to stay here until prom’s over.”

“I-I think I’ll go then,” Jonathan whispered after a moment of deliberation. “I’ll just go get some fresh air.”

“You would rather take a lap around the building than dance with me?” Y/n was past hiding how hurt she was. 

Jonathan knew how hard she worked to organise their school’s prom and how excited she was to have him as her date. Not to mention, she had dropped more than enough overt hints that she wanted one dance with him, at the very least. 

“Fine,” Y/n scoffed, not wanting to start up an argument with Jonathan on what was supposed to be a good night for her. “I’m gonna go get some punch.”

“Y/n,” Jonathan said as he tried to reach for her hand to keep her from leaving. She moved away before he could do so and headed towards the punch bowl. 

He frowned before leaving. Perhaps the air outside would help him clear his head, he figured. Maybe being away from all his classmates’ faces will help him cast aside his doubts about his relationship with Y/n.

When Y/n reached the punch bowl, she poured out two cups, despite being upset with Jonathan. Once she returned to the secluded spot she and Jonathan initially stood at, her train of thought was quickly interrupted by Steve Harrington.

“What are you doing here?” he asked, surprised to see the over-enthusiastic prom committee leader standing alone and sad at her own event. “I thought by now you and Byers would be making out.”

“Funny,” Y/n stated sarcastically. Steve and she were not initially the closest of friends. However, after he dropped Tommy H and his posse, and after Nancy dumped his sorry ass, he became a decent guy. One that would eventually become Y/n’s closest friend. 

“I’m serious,” he insisted. “Isn’t this your favourite song?... Thought for sure you two would be sucking faces in the middle of the gym.”

Y/n laughed at Steve’s cluelessness. Their making out was strictly reserved for the front seat of Jonathan’s car. Not to mention, he was not the type of person who would do that, nor was she the type to make him do that. Her laughter was cut short, however, when she remembered what had happened.

“I asked him if he wanted to dance, and he said he wanted to get some air,” she explained sadly.

Steve frowned. While he and Jonathan were not on the best of terms, he appreciated how happy he made Y/n and subsequently went from hating the guy to feeling indifferent about him.

“He was probably just overwhelmed,” Steve reasoned, trying to give Jonathan the benefit of the doubt. “We both know this isn’t really his scene, so maybe that’s why he needed to get some air.”

Y/n was silent as she thought about it.

“He’ll be back,” Steve said reassuringly, just as the slow song ended and the band began to play a fast-paced one. He grinned at his best friend before taking her cups of punch and placing them on the nearest table. “But until then, I’m not gonna let you sit here and wallow.”

Before Y/n could protest, Steve grabbed her arm and pulled her towards the centre of the gym. As she turned back to return to where she stood, Steve began doing what Y/n could only assume was his best attempt at breakdancing. 

She broke into a fit of laughter before giving in and dancing alongside him, too distracted to notice Jonathan standing at the entrance. Without waiting another moment, he turned back around and headed outside. Jonathan had wandered around the halls before realising that he should not have left Y/n alone when she was clearly upset.

However, the sight of her laughing and dancing with Steve Harrington of all people was enough to prompt him to leave. This was it, he told himself. The moment he hoped would never come, where Y/n leaves him behind for someone else. 

Jonathan frowned at the broken cobblestones beneath his feet as his mind circled back to Y/n. He thought of how much he loved the taste of her chapstick. How much he loved it when she wore her favourite cardigan. How happy it made him when she came over for dinner early to help Will catch up on his school work and help his mom cook.

As he turned the corner and headed for his street, a familiar vehicle pulled up beside him. Jonathan was alarmed when he turned but quickly sighed in relief when he realised it was not a kidnapper or a murderer, but only Nancy Wheeler.

“Get in,” she ordered after rolling her window down. 

Jonathan thought for a moment. 

The last time he and Nancy talked, she had just broken up with Steve and confessed that she had feelings for Jonathan. It drove a wrench between her friendship with Y/n, who, though she would never admit it to Jonathan, had always felt insecure when it came to Nancy. Her confessing her feeling to Jonathan, despite knowing that he and Y/n saw each other, drove her to her breaking point.

Y/n no longer considered Nancy, a friend. 

However, for Jonathan, it was much more complicated. Nancy was someone he had harboured feelings for years, long before he even knew Y/n. Her confession took him by surprise. His affections had already absolved after he started seeing Y/n, but part of him oftentimes humoured the thought that perhaps things would be different if he had not been assigned Y/n as his biology partner.

He was also conflicted because Nancy was also there when Will came back. The three of them were inseparable when they tried to get to the bottom of Will’s disappearance, so Jonathan still felt he owed an outstanding debt to Nancy.

“Jonathan,” Nancy called out. “Get in.”

The image of Y/n dancing with Steve and having a better time at prom than she ever could have with Jonathan clouded his judgment. In his mind, they were as good as broken up. If it weren’t Steve, it would eventually be a guy from New York that Y/n would leave him for. Had she even realised he left? 

“Ok,” Jonathan whispered before opening Nancy’s car door.

***

The 10 weeks could not have passed by quickly enough. After not seeing or hearing from Jonathan since he left the school prom, Y/n was eager to get back to Hawkins and talk to him. Her being upset that he did not want to dance became merely water under the bridge.

Y/n arrived back in Hawkins on her first day back at school. Her mother dropped her off in the school parking lot. She scanned the vehicles in search of Jonathan’s car but to no avail. Not wanting to stand around in disappointment, Y/n opted to head inside and grab her books from her locker.

She greeted several of her classmates and teachers on her way in. Once she finally reached her locker, she began rummaging through it. 

It was a disorganised mess for the most part, but Y/n made an effort to keep her locker door neat and minimalistic. It was simply adorned with a few polaroids- some of her and her friends and plenty of her with Jonathan. 

When Y/n finally found her history textbook, she slammed her locker shut and immediately jumped at the sight of Tina standing by her locker with Carol at her side. 

“There you are, Y/n,” Tina murmured. Her tone was soft and empathetic, which was the very reason Y/n couldn’t trust it. “I’m so sorry to hear about you and Jonathan... Carol and I are here for you.”

“What are you talking about, Tina?” Y/n deadpanned. While they were technically friends, Y/n trusted Carol and Tina about as far she could either of throw them.

“Well after I heard what happened, I just assumed you had already broken up with him or vice versa,” Tina explained. She turned to Carol momentarily and smirked mockingly. “- I mean, that’s what any self-respecting person would do.”

As the two of them cackled, Y/n furrowed her brows and thought hard about what she could possibly be referring to. She looked across the hall and realised that most of her classmates were staring right back at her during their conversations. Was there something she missed while she was in New York?

“Oh,” Tina huffed when Y/n stood silent in confusion. “Honey, I’m sorry... I thought you knew already.”

“Knew what?” Y/n asked.

“Jonathan and Nancy,” Tina stated, and that was all Y/n needed to know. She was about to question how Tina knew, especially considering how infamous she was for spreading false rumours. However, Carol beat her to it.

“I saw them kissing in her car on my way to the prom afterparty,” she added.

Y/n was frozen for a moment as she tried to process what she had just learned. Once she was somewhat grounded again, she nodded curtly at Tina and Carol before storming back out of the school building. Just as she hoped, Jonathan had arrived in the school parking lot, prompting Y/n to march angrily towards him.

She was floating between anger and hurt. After dancing with Steve, Y/n insisted on standing around and waiting for Jonathan to come back. When he never did, she decided it was best not to bother him. The thought of him being too busy making out with Nancy to say goodbye to her before summer break left her feeling sick. Did she really mean so little to him?

“Hey,” Jonathan whispered, smiling unsuspectingly as Y/n approached him. When he realised she was glaring at him, his confusion grew.

“Don’t ‘hey’ me,” Y/n barked. “You and Nancy?... I had to hear from fucking Tina of all people.”

“Y/n-”

“You know, at first, I didn’t know what to think because who can believe a word she says?” Y/n bellowed, her eyebrows knitting tighter as she grew progressively angrier. “But it was all adding up... Me not hearing from you after you left the gym that night. Not even after I wrote to you from New York or stopped by your house before leaving for the summer. Because it was true... wasn’t it, Jonathan?”

“Yes,” he sighed regretfully. “... it’s true.”

Within an instant, Y/n scoffed loudly and began walking away from him in the opposite direction from the school building. Jonathan grabbed her elbow and gripped it just tightly enough to keep her from leaving.

“Y/n, let me explain,” he pleaded. She turned around and glared coldly at him.

“Gimme one reason why I shouldn’t key the side of your car right now.”

Jonathan huffed defeatedly. It was not like he did not deserve it, he thought. Ever since he kissed Nancy, the guilt slowly ate away at him for the entire duration of summer. 

“It was stupid, and I wasn’t thinking straight,” Jonathan explained rapidly, leading Y/n to roll her eyes. “-And I actually came back to the gym.”

“Oh, you came back?” Y/n repeated in a sarcastically enthusiastic tone. “Then why didn’t you stay? Why didn’t you look for me?”

“Because I saw you dancing with Steve,” Jonathan answered, matching Y/n’s volume. 

“Oh my god,” Y/n groaned. 

“And I saw how happy you looked, and I just,” Jonathan cried. “I just felt so intimidated and insecure because, before that, you had spent most of your night huddled in that corner just trying to keep me company-”

“- Because that was my choice,” Y/n argued. “Because I wanted to spend my night with you... And you know that Steve and I are only friends, so that doesn’t explain why you just left again without telling me.”

“I just got scared because I thought I was gonna get hurt, and I-” Jonathan responded honestly. He thought being truthful would help his case, but he only dug himself more in-depth into the hole he was in. “... I just thought maybe you meant more to me than I did to you.”

Y/n’s eyes darkened as she stepped back, taken by complete surprise. She could understand why he may have not been overjoyed at the sight of her and Steve dancing at prom, but she could not understand this. 

“You don’t think I care about you as much you care about me? Are you kidding me, Jonathan?” Y/n scrutinised, her voice lowered. Jonathan bowed his head sheepishly. “Ok, then you should know I was the one who asked Mr Anderson to assign you as my biology partner... because I thought you were cute, and I wanted to get to know you better.”

There went Jonathan’s initial theory that his crossing paths with Y/n were a miracle and with it any grounds he had for believing she was not invested in their relationship. He realised the irony in thinking she was the one who cared less.

“And I can’t count the number of times I was scared to death last winter when we fought against scientists and inter-dimensional monsters,” Y/n continued. “- but I knew how much you cared about your mom and about Will, and I cared about you, so I stuck by you.”

Any other sane person would have bolted at first sight of danger, Jonathan thought. But not Y/n. Even when her parents threatened to ground her for a year, she continued to help Jonathan get to the bottom of his brother’s disappearance.

“And I only started tutoring Will because I knew you had your hands full with your own schoolwork,” Y/n added. “- and because I knew it meant a lot to you that he felt comfortable around me, so it was also my attempt at getting to know him better.”

Jonathan initially helped Will catch up on his schoolwork, having been the only other person he really trusted and let his guard down around. However, after noticing the toll it was taking on his own grades, Y/n insisted on stepping in. It wasn’t long before Will opened up to her as well, and Jonathan loved watching the two of them laugh over his math homework.

He felt like an idiot for forgetting all she did for him and his family.

“Oh, and if it wasn’t already clear just how pathetically much I care about you... here.” 

Y/n reached into her bag and pulled out a small wrapped box before aggressively handing it to Jonathan. He cautiously unwrapped it and discovered the new camera Y/n had bought for him in New York with the money she saved from her part-time job. When Jonathan looked up again and went to apologise profusely to Y/n, she had already turned around and began walking.

“Where are you going?” he asked worriedly, following after her. Y/n turned around and narrowed her eyes at him.

“I’m kinda the laughing stock of Hawkins right now,” she stated bitterly. “So I’m gonna walk home.”

“Y/n, I’m so sorry-”

“Save it,” she hissed. “You know... You say you were scared of getting hurt by me. But I spent that night worried sick about whether or not you made it home ok, while you were out kissing another girl.”

Not just any girl, she thought to herself, Nancy Wheeler of all people. He had to have known how much that would have hurt, Y/n thought. Unfortunately, he did not. Jonathan realised just how little thought he actually gave towards Y/n and her feelings. If anything, all he thought about was how he could salvage his feelings if she broke up with him, which she did not. Nonetheless, that did not stop Y/n from getting one last word in.

“So go fuck yourself, Jonathan.”

***

Weeks had passed since Y/n and Jonathan last spoke. 

Since then, she switched her homeroom and biology classes to avoid having to sit in the same room as him. While he was desperate to talk to her and try to make things right between them, Jonathan also wanted to give Y/n space. However, this all came to an end when he caught wind of a party she was hosting at her house and decided to make one last attempt at making it up to her. That was the only thing he wanted to do.

With his hands in the pocket of his jeans, he paced across the patio of Y/n’s home. The party had just finished, and he waited down the street for the majority of his classmates to leave before he worked up the courage to approach her home. 

For weeks, he had exhausted every possible thing he could say to Y/n to try and apologise for what he had done. To try to express just how much he cared about her despite being so foolish. 

When he finally approached her front door, it finally began to sink in. He wondered how she would react to seeing him, especially after avoiding him for weeks. Would she trust him enough to give him a chance to explain himself? Or would she tell him to go fuck himself like she did last time? 

Before he could fall further down that sinkhole, Jonathan knocked three times on the wooden door and waited anxiously for Y/n to answer it. As he tried to keep himself calm, the door swung open.

“Jonathan?”

She was wearing a cardigan over a jean and a t-shirt. Her hair was slightly dishevelled from what Jonathan assumed was rapidly trying to clean up her home before her parent’s got back the next morning. 

“What are you doing here?” 

“Can- Uhm...” Jonathan coughed to clear his throat. “Can we talk?... Please?”

Y/n hesitated to respond. She had mustered up enough enthusiasm and energy to host a party. Talking to Jonathan threatened that. However, when she noticed how antsy Jonathan looked and weary-eyed he was, she sighed before nodding.

Closing the door behind her, Y/n walked Jonathan to the front corner of her home. They stood on the pavement just in front of her mother’s garden, away from the earshot of the few people still inside and illuminated only by the street light. Y/n waited in silent for Jonathan to speak.

“You have every right not to listen to me and not to forgive me, but,” Jonathan sighed. “But I don’t like Nancy... Not as anything more than a friend, and nowhere near as much as I like you.”

“Then why’d you kiss her?” Y/n asked.

She had spent the better part of the fast few weeks letting out all of the anger she felt. All she had now were questions. Whether or not it was merely for closure or to rationalise forgiving Jonathan, Y/n had yet to decide.

“I overheard Tina say that they thought it would only be a matter of time before you break up with me,” Jonathan explained. “And it just... just messed with my head because they weren’t the only ones who thought that. Everyone at school did... even me.”

Y/n frowned. She had never really given much thought to what others said about her relationship with Jonathan, mainly because she was used to being the topic of conversation at their high school. Perhaps she was oblivious to how new this must have been him.

“You’re the first girl I’ve ever really liked like this,” he admitted. “And I didn’t know anything about what to do when people were counting down the days before you dumped me. Or what to do when I felt scared because of how ridiculously amazing you are... or scared about how close you are with Steve or about anything.”

Jonathan sighed. While he hated that he felt the way he did, Jonathan knew that Y/n deserved the truth. She deserved to know what led him to do what he did, even if it was not something he was proud of.

“All I know is that I miss you,” Jonathan whispered. “And that I really messed up.” 

“I wish you had told me,” Y/n sniffled. “If you had told me how you felt, things could’ve gone differently, you know.”

He had, in fact, come to that realisation. Unfortunately, he did so too late. By the time Joyce pointed out the importance of communication in relationships to him, he had explained what happened between him and Y/n; it was too late to do anything. That was when Y/n became deadset on avoiding him, and understandably so, he believed.

“I know that Steve’s been a real jerk to you in the past, so I get why you felt scared that we’re best friends now,” Y/n said honestly. “And I know Tina and Carol can be a lot, so I also know how hard it is to not let them get inside your head.” 

Y/n had her fair share of moments where Tina’s rumours clouded her judgement and led her to make decisions she quickly regretted. She wasn’t angry that Jonathan fell subject to the same fate. She was hurt that he left her in the dark about it.

“I’ve missed you too,” she sighed admittedly. “And I’m happy you’re here... But it still really hurts that you trusted everyone else’s opinions more than you trusted me. You were never some temporary fix for me, Jonathan. I really liked you and really cared about you... I still do.”

Her last words made Jonathan’s heart skip a few beats. He was unsure what he did to get a girl like Y/n to care about him so much, even despite his mistakes. However, he was not going to continue to take it for granted.

“What I did to you was the worst thing I have ever done,” Jonathan stated. “And I am so sorry, Y/n. All I wanna do is make it up to you.”

Y/n stared at him intently. He seemed sincere, she thought. He was far different from the guys she dated before, which was part of the reason she first liked him. Despite everything he did, Y/n trusted he meant what he had said to her. After a moment’s deliberation, she sighed.

“You can start tonight,” Y/n replied, smiling as she watched Jonathan’s face light up. “If you stick around and help me clean up, we can eat the rest of the ice cream while you catch me up on what I’ve missed... I heard Will and the kids dressed up as the ghostbusters for Halloween.”

“Yeah,” Jonathan laughed before stopping in his tracks. “Uhm- actually, before we go inside... I wanna give you this.”

He handed her a small copy of their photo from prom. She smiled at the of them kissing, utterly unaware that the photographer was about to take their picture. For all the heartbreak that came afterwards, prom night started off on a really good foot.

“I didn’t know if you still wanted me to put aside the copy for you, but I figured I-”

Y/n cut Jonathan’s sentence off short when she leaned forwards and gently kissed the side of his cheek. Taken aback, he found himself speechless and smiling like a fool. Whatever it took, Jonathan thought; Whatever hoops he needed to jump through, he was going to do it all.

“C’mon,” Y/n grinned before taking hold of his hand.

Jonathan was still not sure how things would go for them. 

Would she trust him enough to go on an actual date with him? Would she eventually decide they were better off as friends? All of this remained uncertain to him. However, as Y/n guided Jonathan into her house and smiled as they spent the night disposing of red solo cups and watching dishes, one thing was clear. She was giving him another chance to make things right between them.

And that was more than he could have hoped for.