#i hate marineford

[capripatch]

Marineford isn’t real it can’t hurt you 😁👍 (I am coping. On ep.474)

[otaku553]

Thinking very hard about an AU idea of mine. Reluctant king Sabo AU!

In which Sabo isn’t saved by Dragon, but survives long enough to drift ashore and be saved by the doctors of Goa Kingdom, who do so only to ransom his medical bills from Sabo’s parents. Sabo’s parents take him back, thinking that his amnesia makes him a clean slate, but Sabo, young and stubborn and unsure of his entire identity, knows that everything is wrong and runs again, and again, and again.

Until at some point, he meets the Revolutionaries, and realizes that he can be useful to them, provide them information, make something good of an inescapable situation. From then on, he starts acting the noble that he was born as, in order to be a more useful informant to the Revolutionaries, until sunk cost fallacy hits and he believes that being a noble is the only way that he can be useful to the Revolutionaries. So at that point, why not take it all the way?

At 17, Sabo becomes one of Princess Sarie’s suitors, and at 17, he has doubts about using the princess for his own goals. Sarie is a romantic, and she wants a dramatic fairy tale of a romance, and she was already charmed, but the moment Sabo opens up to her about not wanting to use her to get to the throne, having lofty ambitions of helping the people (just not the people she thinks he’s talking about), Sabo becomes the one she simply must marry, because surely if she tries hard enough, she can make him love her back.

Soon after, the king and his son die. Sarie’s father and brother die. And while Sabo conveniently ascends to the throne, he also swiftly implicates his father, Outlook, in the assassination of all heirs to the throne, resulting in Outlook’s arrest and subsequent execution. And thus, at 18, Sabo becomes king, and begins to gradually institute great changes to Goa Kingdom.

Design-wise, Sabo wears an eyepatch because his damaged eye is considered a grotesque sight by nobles’ standards. Under the eyepatch, he wears heavy makeup to hide the burn scar. These are both at the behest of his birth parents, who spin a story about Sabo having been born half blind to hide the fact that Sabo had been shot by a Celestial Dragon and save face. To those who have seen his scar, they fabricate a second secret story that he was unfortunately kidnapped as a child. Sabo never does find out, until he regains his memories, where the burn scar is actually from.

[1000sunnygo]

IMO a lesser mentioned reason behind Luffy's overwhelming success as a protagonist is Oda's extreme overprotectiveness. Like he'd rather jump off a cliff than let Luffy be controversial.

Marineford is an easy example. An arc heavily featuring Luffy's low point, but Oda didn't make him responsible for Ace's death. In 1000+ chapters of screentime, I can't think of an instance where Luffy did something irredeemable in fandom eyes. Only controversial scene that comes to mind is picking a fight against Zoro in Whiskey peak? Maybe Oda had the luxury to let his guard down back then bc online discussions weren't a thing PFFT

It's not like Luffy doesn't make mistakes, but Oda makes sure Luffy is immediately called out by someone in the story so he stays grounded and can apologize if he has to.

And that's not all, Oda is vocally supportive of Luffy in the polls, he can't not include Luffy in magazine covers even when the editors press him to, he made the timskip 2years bc he wanted Luffy to stay a child during story's runtime, he doesn't let a single character outshine Luffy in an arc, he cushioned Luffy's past with TWO brothers and kept one alive after taking away one of them.. he's spoiling Luffy rotten and I love to see it bc that's the right kind of spoiling, that's what keeps Luffy the happy boy he needs to be, shonen authors should take some notes methinks

[petrichal]

Look, I really love KobyLu, but specifically KobyLu where Koby is a marine and Luffy is a pirate and nothing else, because I LOVE seeing how people handle Koby's inner conflict while also maintaining his dream in canon.

Lead this up with Luffy being himself; he's not fazed by what other people think of their relationship, doesn't give two shits about it, but he's emotionally intelligent-- he goes along with Koby's insistence that they talk away from prying eyes (and isn't it such a pirate thing to do, to duck and hide and whisper under the canopy of leaves, to steal away treasure under the dead of night? Luffy's selfish and possessive of those he loves, so he's gleeful that there's a world where he can see a side of Koby no one else can), and *absolutely no one* would think to ask Luffy about love or dating so it's all the more easier for him to not slip his secret, this back-and-forth meeting with a marine upstart, the first person he had met from when his journey had just begun.

And as time goes on, they both get stronger, monsters in their own right and maybe more distant. But Koby's a sap so every time he sees Luffy on the newspaper after a dangerous stunt, he thinks he's so reckless but he thinks it with such endless admiration and pride that he thinks his heart might just burst. (On the same stretch of ocean, Luffy sees news of Koby too, rising up in ranks after each new exploit and his excitement grows because Koby's gonna be an Admiral and one day, he's gonna have to chase Luffy too. and if he's going to replace one of those shitty Admirals in office, well, then that's a bonus as well.)

If anyone asks them why they keep looking at the newspapers, always staying at the same page and on the same picture, Koby would deflect. He's selfish in that way too; the longer he stayed with the Marines, the more he knew he had to act against the corruption within, and he wasn't about to ruin his career by claiming he's been seeing the future Pirate King in secret. There was also that promise he made to Luffy, something about "catching him eventually" that Koby should've probably thought about harder in hindsight but remembering Luffy's sunny grin made his admission all the more worth it.

(and Helmeppo would sigh, because he's been with this idiot for 2 years and while he can't see what the hell Koby's been seeing in Luffy, if he sees even a trace of that ratty straw hat on the front page of the news, he's gonna pass it to Koby.)

Luffy, though. Luffy is loud. To people close to him- his crew, his trusted allies- he'd yap their ears off about this shy marine guy with incredible tenacity and potential for power and everyone goes woah so you know him? he's a friend? he's your WHAT and he laughs because no one really asked him before and wow, this really is everyone's first time hearing about this, huh?

(and Law knows Koby- Koby the Hero, who was around during the Rocky port incident- and he turned towards the Strawhats with a questioning, alarmed stare only to be met by the same look. Secret brothers, and now a lover?, they'd mutter under their breaths. Zoro though, he looked like he was simply being told what the day was and raised an eyebrow as if it was no big deal. As if he knew already. what the fuck?)

So when Marine Captain Koby comes to visit (under the pretext of wanting to arrest Luffy), waving his hands like he was greeting a friend rather than an enemy, wide smile on his face to match Luffy's, the crew leans back and sighs, and let him chase their captain all around whatever island they'd be docked at at the time.

And, well, if they happen to settle by the shore after that, entangled limbs and hushed talks of dreams, the world, of what lies after holding hands and chaste kisses- that's Koby and Luffy's business entirely.

[pippin-pippout]

I just watched MelonTeee's video on Ace and Worth and man the internal debate I have with myself on whether I agree with the choice or not...

Her video explains the fandom's love for the character so well, as well as why the tragedy hit so hard. For me personally I have not been that affected by a character death in a LONG time.

And I understand it from a certain narrative perspective – mainly how Ace's past continues to feature in the story a decade later, and Whitebeard's line that someone would carry Ace's flame, because that clearly describing Luffy. He goes after the mera mera no mi and finishes what Ace started in Wano.

But there are two major narrative reasons given for Ace's death that I disagree with. And are largely why I think it shouldn't have happened, and also why the death has hit me so hard.

This is going to get long, but I would really love to hear everyone's thoughts on it if you choose to read!

To give Luffy the push he needed to be stronger: I am pretty confident this is Oda's stated reason (in addition to Oda wanting to prove he could kill characters which I guess he said at one point and which is bleh given the level of injury a character sustains seems to have nothing to do with whether they die or not lol it's just what the author wants to happen). Anyway. That push already happened on Sabaody when Luffy lost everyone to Duma. He was HELPLESS. More helpless than he was through most of marineford. And when Rayleigh convinces Luffy to do the 2 years training, Rayleigh only brings up their epic defeat on Sabaody. He does not bring up marineford or Ace's death as a reason Luffy needs to get stronger. Because Luffy did not need that reason. The only argument I can think of is that maybe once he landed on Amazon Lily, and he realized the strawhats were likely alive, the terror he felt on Sabaody abated slightly. And therefore maybe he needed a reminder of what "loss" truly is to re-motivate him. However, I don't think that is really fitting with his character or the story.

Ace's dream was fulfilled: Oda has talked about the reason he doesn't kill villains is because not having your dream fulfilled is a worse fate than death. I think part of the tragedy of Ace's death was that his dream wasn't fulfilled. Even for those who accept his last words - that he had only one regret which was not seeing Luffy accomplish his dream - the amount of time he got to live with that dream was literally the last moments of his life. But I don't think just because you die with no regrets, does not mean your dream is fulfilled. Especially when Ace never truly internalized what his dream was. His final choice to turn around showed HOW MUCH he still was that lonely, scared little kid he was at 10 despite his warm smile and his growing family. The most heartbreaking part of the flashback was not Sabo's death. It was watching Ace asking the question "do I deserve to exist?" and giving all his devotion to those who said yes. It was him making the exact same decision he would make 10 years later, to refuse to run, because he felt like if he ran he would lose everything and Luffy was standing behind him. Ace's final words do more than state he has no regrets. He also gives the answer to the question he'd asked Garp, and that Garp had said only his actions could decide. Ace died thanking Luffy and his family for loving him despite the "worthless" or "good for nothing" person he was. Ace was moved to tears to hear his family emphatically saying "YES. You do deserve to live! We want you to live!" But Ace never actually believed it. His last words were a reflection of gratitude for the love he was given that he didn't feel he deserved. And thus his final answer to the question "Do I deserve to exist?" was no.

That he was too "good" This is kind of the most upsetting one I've heard (thankfully not a lot) and also the one easiest to dismiss. Ace, being the actual son of the pirate king, being super powerful, growing in strength and reputation faster than Luffy (debatable), put him narratively in competition with Luffy. What I mean by that is it positions him as too much the golden character, the mary sue, the typical protagonist, when One Piece is about Luffy's story, not Ace's. I disagree with the premise of seeing Ace's character that way. But also even he was "that" character, it's pretty clear Ace's dream would have taken him to becoming Whitebeard's heir - whose dream it was to build a family - while Luffy is Gol D Roger's heir. So Ace's journey would have supported the main story of One Piece and also be narratively satisfying.

---

What Was Ace's Dream?

The dreams Ace stated out loud were more reflections of his actual, deeper dream. "I want to be the king of the pirates" - because he wanted to prove his existence and his worth to the world. Which switched to "I want to make whitebeard the king of the pirates" - because Whitebeard loved him despite his blood, and so even if that wasn't what Whitebeard wanted, it was how Ace understood he could repay Whitebeard.

Both of those stated dreams get back to this question he'd been asking his whole life - that of worth. Worth and Love, which, for Ace's character, are inseparable.

For Ace's dream to truly be fulfilled, it's not enough for him to accept he was loved – which he did on the scaffolds, crying from happiness – he had to believe he was worth that love. He had to love himself.

Ace died with that dream tragically unfulfilled.

---

The Purpose of One Piece

Of course the decision to kill Ace makes the story more realistic and of course it is heartbreaking, tragic, moving, and obviously inspires deeper discussion.

However, what rankled me from when I first learned about his death, which was way before I was even introduced to the character in Alabasta, was that he is the only character of the younger generation (outside of flashbacks) to die.

Honestly when I first heard Ace was one of the only characters to die, I was just worried it would make him seem weaker or stupider than every other character, which is a personal pet peeve of mine. Luckily for most fans, it didn't do that.

Instead, what wound up upsetting me was how it seemed to contradict the purpose of the story that is One Piece (at least what I think the purpose is). In doing so, it opposes the meaning that many fans find in this absurd, ridiculous, inspiring, heartfelt, heroic tale about a boy made of rubber.

One Piece is an escapist story about a boy named Luffy who inspires every good guy he meets to pursue and achieve their dream. It's also about Luffy beating up every bad guy who punishments are that they cannot fulfill their morally reprehensible dreams.

Because of Ace's premature death, he is the only good guy character in the main timeline who does not get to pursue his dream. And what's extra tragic is that he is also one of the most deserving of seeing his dream fulfilled.

[aimbutmiss]

The dialogue after Crocodile saves Ace is so funny to me:

Doffy: you're ditching me to team up with whitebeard? It's enough to make make a man jealous y'know...

Croc: I don't do team ups.

Sir "I don't do team ups" Crocodile, deciding to team up with a clown and a goth two years later...

If Doflamingo got jealous from something small like that (I believe he really meant it, at least a little, even if he said it jokingly) I wonder how he would react to Cross Guild (not well)

[moongothic]

(Frankenstein'd two asks together for the sake of previty)

I've been pretty torn between answering this ask and just doing a deep dive re-analysis post about Marineford as a whole (from Crocodile's perspective) because I feel like rereading it now as a Crocodad Truther, I could probably make a whole lot of new observations and/or read into things differently than I did last time I read it (when I was rereading for the purpose of studying the viability of Crocodad) Like there's so much to say about the whole arc and I'd include this line of thought in there anyways... But also, do I really feel like writing a giant essay like that........

I am going to start this by refering to this mini-essay I wrote like a month ago, about how Crocodile seems to have this attitude of "no crying over spilt milk". What's happened has happened, what's done is done, it's your own fault things turned out the way they did, there's no undoing any of it and you just have to continue on. And I do think that attitude would be key here to understanding Crocodile's actions in Marineford re:Crocodad

(Sidenote because this is not relevant to the rest of the post, but the reason this is about Crocodad and not CrocoUncle etc is because if Crocodile was only loosely related to Luffy it would not have the same kind of impact emotionally (for Crocodile; like there is a difference between a nephew and a son). Additionally a part of Crocodad is that it ties into Crocodile's connection with Ivankov in a really important way. If Crocodile was only loosely related to Luffy, him also being trans would kind of be like a random sidenote without being relevant to the two being family, but suddenly if Crocodile is Luffy's other biological parent, him being trans matters a lot more. Also if he's not Luffy's other dad then we'd be still stuck asking who the fuck birthed Luffy to begin with)

While Sengoku's announcement here would make for a horrific revelation to Crocodile in this situation (a revelation we never see his immidiate reaction to, which continues to be deeply sus), what would it change, really?

The little idiot child who Crocodile had attempted to murder multiple times was his own son. Sure, he might've insantly lost whatever grudge he might've held against Luffy, then what? That feeling would be one-sided, because at this point in the story Luffy hated Crocodile's guts and he knew that too. Luffy has no idea about them being related, and even if Crocodile literally walked up the kid right that second and told him the truth, what would it change? He'd still be the man who nearly nuked a million people off the face of the earth, took over a country and killed Luffy and his friends while laughing about it. Being Luffy's other dad wouldn't make him any less of a horrible asshole (if anything it might make it slightly worse 'cause you get to add shit like "child abandonment" onto his list of crimes).

Luffy came to Marineford to save Ace. Crocodile came to Marineford to kill Whitebeard. He had no reason to interfere with Luffy's quest, and with the help Luffy already was recieving from the prison escapees, the Newkama and the Whitebeard Pirates, what would Crocodile's assistance add to the mix? Would Luffy even welcome him in helping save his brother?

Luffy had his own life, a life Crocodile had not been a part of. He had no right to try to insert himself into it at this point, after all he had done to Luffy. There's no crying over spilled milk. What's done is done, you just have to move on. He should just focus on what he came to do; get his revenge and take Whitebeard's head, as planned.

Deep breaths

...Only to realize that Whitebeard is a dying old man and not worth even killing anymore, because he's not the same Primebeard whom once beat Crocodile and crushed all his dreams. Defeating Whitebeard would not give him the catharsis he came for.

And at that point, the fuck was Crocodile going to do? The revenge he wants isn't there anymore 'cause it went bad a few decades ago. And between the raging war and Doflamingo on his ass it's not like he could just sneak out without anybody noticing. He doesn't have allies (aside from Daz under him) to worry about. He only has his hatred to the World Government.

At that point, he might as well be a nuisance to the Government and assist Luffy. Even if the help wasn't welcomed, even if Luffy hated him and regardless if he knew the truth or not, helping Luffy right then and there would still be better than letting the Government have their way and kill his son right in front of him

[kacievvbbbb]

Ace & Luffy and Greek Tragedy

Ace and the Marineford summit war is essentially a retelling of the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice where Ace is somehow both Orpheus and Eurydice.

Like don't get me wrong Luffy is very Orpheus coded

Like of course Luffy was going to descend into Empel down, a place where no one is ever supposed to come back from, to save his brother just as Orpheus descended into Hades to save his lover (Empel down is also literally underground as well). Of course, his love for his brother is so strong and his cause so moving he can't help but rally the world; friend and foe alike, around him. And of course before the eyes of gods and men, he gets Ace back, of course he does! his love for his brother can and has shaken the world.

But Ace has a bit of his tragedy too.

Because just like Orpheus, no matter how much you yell at him to keep going or get frustrated with the perceived stupidity of the choice, Ace was always going to look back, of course he was! How could he not? everything he loved was behind him.

And they'll tell the story a million times a million different ways but no one can deny that love was there. Love was there, and it wasn't enough to save Eurydice then and it won't be enough to save Ace now but it was there and to them that was enough, this proof that they have loved and been loved in turn is enough.

Orpheus and Luffy will carry this love turned anger turned grief everywhere they go, to the ends of the world and back again, they will never outgrow it. But one day they might find poeace in it, one day it will be enough for them too, this knowledge that they loved and they loved well.

Love can not save any of these characters from their fates but i can offer them comfort there at the end and give them courage to face it.

And isn't that proof enough?

[beanghostprincess]

i have a whole analysis in mind as to why ace, robin and sanji's backstories are pretty much parallelisms and they have very similar trauma responses but i'm probably not writing shit because then i will have the biggest breakdown known to mankind

[alumirp]

Trafalgar D(azai) Water Law

a story about a Law who becomes very dark after Cora-san's death. Like, really dark. He lives with Wolf, still saves Bepo, Pen and Shachi, everything is exactly the same on Swallow Island. But. But he doesn't become a pirate. He doesn't create a crew with the boys. No, this Law is extremely depressed and unmotivated, he doesn't even have the desire to avenge Cora. Honestly, he simply wants to die and rejoin his family, friends, and benefactor. He turns to alcohol and becomes a little more 'lively' but starts to find the island boring. As such, he still leaves Swallow Island and becomes a wanderer, sleeping with people in exchange for a place to stay and sometimes offering his talents as a doctor. He wanders from island to island, from ship to ship and eventually finds himself on the Grandline. Where he inevitably runs into the Straw Hats. and Luffy immediately goes insane over this guy because omg he's super cool looking, has the coolest tattoos and is funny. Also, Law gets them out of trouble when he gets involved with them, proving himself to be very intelligent. and Luffy wants this weirdo on his crew. The Straw Hats are almost certain that this dark and clearly suicidal guy will say no and they are completely shocked when Law simply shrugs and accepts.

Now he's their problem. And soon they discover that this dark and seemingly grumpy guy is a…very active suicide. Jokes, songs and attempts, Law has little or no care for his life, simply living on the edge all the time, much to Luffy's admiration (bc Law would follow him into a volcano just to find out what it's like inside) and the crew's horror. , who is the one who has to keep this guy alive and on a leash, because he is a terrible influence on their already crazy captain

(hes also a man whore(bc if a man looks like Law he has a duty to be one) but that doesn't matter until Luffy gets angry with that fact)

((also, I feel like Law and Nami would be natural enemies lmao. Nami: giving orders and trying to debt/extort Law. Law, absolutely unimpressed and not at all inclined to respect Nami: try me bitch

There's only room for a petty bitch on this ship and they'll fight for the title)

[capripatch]

Ok. So I finished. Marineford. Everything is totally fine and I am totally ok!!!!!!

(Ignore that I forgot his leg bandages.. pls..)

[fowlfics]

Imagine you are witnessing the Marineford execution live-time. A pop-up appears in front of you; It says,

Anything you say in the replies, reblogs or tags may and very possibly will be used in a crack fic

The premise of which is based upon @taizi saying "ace saw at the end that he was loved but i wish he could see how much WE love him too" in a convo and me going "crack fic inspo"

[supermarine-silvally]

What was your inspiration for Yara? how did she come to be?

Oooh good question!! Yara, like the vast majority of my OCs, underwent a lot of tweaks and changes and development to the point I have her at right now, where I've got her story and personality and abilities and all that pretty tightly nailed down.

Her character concept started as Mihawk's daughter (I just thought he was EXTREMELY COOL the first time he showed up in the East Blue arc), since I have a thing with my OCs where they always end up being related to a canon character somehow (i.e. Circe Mackinnon (Soul Eater) being the half-sister of Franken Stein; Lilletz Lucilfer (HxH) being the younger sister of Chrollo; Haganezuka Minako (KnY) being the niece of Haganezuka Hotaru; Joey Armansky (Death Note) being the cousin of Mary Kenwood/Wedy; (Iryna Kovalenko (BnHA) fits this mould too but I haven't revealed who she's related to just yet heheh it's a bit of a doozy)). Funny enough, I initially envisioned her travelling with her father and perhaps encountering the Straw Hats at Baratie, so the whole abandonment plotline actually didn't come into play until later, when I decided to make her a Whitebeard Pirate after meeting Ace in the Alabasta arc and absolutely falling in love with him (which only grew as I learned more about him and the depth of his character).

Sometimes, the funny thing with OCs is that after a certain point, their stories just sort of begin to write themselves and all the pieces start to fit together in some really nice thematic ways. Yara and Ace's relationship developed as they found common ground with their resentment towards their fathers and both looking to Whitebeard as a surrogate father figure, which in turn developed Yara's internal struggles with her own identity (not knowing where she came from for the longest time and then even after finding out who her father is, dealing with the pain of being an unwanted and neglected child who grew up into an fiercely angry, yet profoundly lonely young woman). The more I thought about what Yara's early life must've been like, the more I could get a good grasp of who she is as a young adult, what her major plot beats are, and how those connect with the canon story.

Her relation to Wano and the Shimotsuki family (and Zoro, who became her second cousin on her mother's side) was a later addition, as I continued to learn more about the One Piece world and how she could potentially fit into each arc. Marineford and Wano were the two natural places where she would exist, so I've really tried to figure out her development in relation to those two arcs.

I hope that answers your question okay! I could really talk about Yara (or any of my OCs) all day heheh

[namisweatheria]

Can't wait for Garp's Marineford 2!: No One Cares This Time.

[spideyachilles]

luffy adventures!!! today in, helping out

[full comic image in link below, image ID in ALT!]

[hauntingblue]

I'm still scared in sabaody

This is crazy...

THS IS LIKE 300 CHAPTERS AWAY!!!!! THE SMILE... and mingo being the owner of the slave house for the tenryuubitos... OF COURSE

Look.... luffy enablers vs normal rational people

I was like yeah sure luffy was saying he wanted to become king of the pirates but rayleigh didn't explicitly say roger wanted to become pirate king just that people called him that so I am SURE shanks is saying luffy has the same dream we don't know about as Roger. Which lines up bc luffy said shanks knew of it and then in wano ace tells yamato and he says roger said the same thing and ace also knew of it!!! Which is crazy that it's set up this early but EVERYTHING is being set up here

I need to frame this btw.

Shakky the mother that stepped up.... also new conspiracy theory shakky is Hancock's mother bc she is a fan of luffy and hancock is too.... she was busy being a pirate to take care of hancock so she feels incredibly guilty about what happened to her so shakky either hasn't told her and hancock doesn't know or they have a difficult relationship. Yeah sure whatever. I dont care if rayleigh is her father or not bc as you know I believe in asexual reproduction in one piece thank you.

🧎🏻‍♀️🧎🏻‍♀️🧎🏻‍♀️what can I say

😳🫣

Here we fucking go again..... I can't do this

Incredible face sanji

SHE KNOWS!!!!!!

Luffy tearing up...... christ

Sanji getting away from his group with nami to save zoro will never get old like jesus christ look at this

CHOPPER 😭😭😭😭😭😭

CRAZYYYYYYY IM GOING CRAZYYYYY

LUFFYYYYYYY NOOOOO

NAMIIIIII NOOOOOOOOOO nami asking for help and luffy not being able to help her this time.... this is so sick and twisted

THE WAY THIS GETS WAY WORSE MAKES ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!! SICK!!!!!! TWISTED!!!!!!!!