#i guess janes was KIND of ok. the most ok out of all of them at least

[skenpiel]

the greatest thing homestuck ever did for us was invent tricksters, thus letting us all design cute candy themed outfits for any and all characters even though the actual canonical designs looked like complete total fucking garbage

[comingdownwithme]

Hi! I wanna know something about all the creeps. Do you all like hugs, or do they make you uncomfortable? What kind of physical affections do you all prefer if not hugs?

From Most to Least Comfortable with Physical Affection out of the Creepypastas I've Drawn so far, we have...

Nina is touch starved a big sucker for physical affection so I'd guess that she'd be pretty comfortable with and would be all too eager for a hug. Apart from that though, I think she'd be fine with other forms of physical affection too!

Toby wouldn't be uncomfortable with hugs since I personally see him as someone who's unconsciously touchy, though he doesn't actively seek hugs out like Nina. It really depends on what one's relationship is between him. Once he has identified someone as a non-threat, only then would Toby start being physically affectionate.

Jack doesn't mind hugs! In fact, Jack loves them! You should totally approach him! He won't take your kidney, trust! (He actually doesn't mind hugs though, and depending on one's relationship with him, he'd stop considering someone as prey/a meal)

Like Toby Jane's affection depends on her relationship with someone, though she's far more reserved and less casual with physical affection than Toby. So, uhh, not exactly uncomfortable with hugs per se, but she'd rather initiate it than be the one hugged.

Despite having a physical form, Ben is... still a ghost- Not saying he can't be hugged or held, but it's basically like hugging frigid air. He can, however, physically interact with his surroundings, so just because someone can't be physically affectionate with him doesn't mean he can't be physically affectionate with others, he just chooses not to lmao

Jeff wasn't raised in a physically affectionate household and he flip-flops between touch averse and touch starved like a metronome lmfao. You can count the amount of people who can touch him without pissing him off in one hand. He'd much prefer (or is at least used to) compliments and verbal affirmations (which he doesn't get much off anyways in the first place skdjsks)

Clockwork Doesn't like being touched for obvious reasons. She'd only be ok with physical affection if she's the one initiating it which is a rarity in and of itself. Like Jeff, non-physical affection like verbal affirmations or idk, gifts are fine

[keepmovinjunior]

as a continuation of my princess tier list, here is my disney heroine tier list. so i can talk abt MY GIRL and also give these ladies their deserved love! honestly, i was never a disney princess girl as a child in the face of these characters who, for the most part, i always vibed waaaay more with. (but obviously i love and appreciate the princesses too!)

honorable mentions to mulan and pocahontas, who i think belong in this tier list as well, but since they are officially part of the disney princess line up, they're not ranked here. also i'm including nala and the anthro animal ladies because, even though they are animals, they're also hard to place and i think enough of disney heroines to be here with the gals. they deserve it.

megara : obviously. do i even need to get into this. i ramble enough about her on here for you all to know why i love her. ok moving on

esmeralda : i almost tied her with meg, which should tell you something about how much i love her. and for a while she was my favorite, but ultimately, meg won out, and has just the tiniest fraction of an edge over her, simply because meg was the first one to hit a nerve with little me so i have more of the nostalgia for meg. however, i love them almost an equal amount yet for different reasons. esmeralda is such an amazing character. i understand disney's handling of her depiction / romani people in general is very problematic, and has not aged well, but this aside, esmeralda is just an amazing woman, and i can't help but love her. she is gorgeous! fierce! beautiful, inside and out! she doesn't take anyone's sh*t, and her wit is FIRE. and she's hot, and not ashamed of it! she doesn't feel pressured to act chaste, and yet she knows she owes men around her nothing despite how flirtatious she is. she's so kind too, and is one of the only characters in the film to have the bravery to stand up for another person in need, even though it truly could have cost her her life (and almost does). that humanitarian unyielding streak has me WEAK. she is such an icon and inspiration for me in general, and i only hope i can one day be as tough, brave, and just amazing as she is. also "i ask for nothing, i can get by, but i know so many less lucky than i?" wtf esme. i'm sold. you're a gem for the ages. truly a woman irreplacable.

captain amelia : from treasure planet. obviously. a ken duncan lady, just like meg, and you can tell by their cheeks <3 her design and all around characterization is just amazing and so much fun. she's hilarious, she goes head to head with all of the guys... she's so friendly, funny, and confident, and you just can't help but fall in love with her. god what a (cat)woman. she makes me very happy.

jane : when tarzan came out and jane was introduced, i was obsessed with her for a brief moment, because besides meg, i think she's probably the most relatable one to me. she's a scientist, interested in animals, but she's not logical to the point of insensitivity and she holds such an emotional intelligence and respect for nature; she's truly a beautiful person. and she is a damsel in distress, but it makes sense as to why she would be: she's a victorian woman who has never been in the elements / is limited by her society, so it's a truthful, not offensive depiction of one, imo. she is just so adorable and funny, ken duncan has such a way of making cute ladies look so in love. that face after tarzan kisses her? the best. also "you stay away from me, like a very good wild man" KILLS ME she's so funny!!!

alice : i loved her as a kid. she's so likable as a character, and, like jane, just has that lovable curiosity about everything around her. also her wit is fast af, i found her quite relatable as a child. more so than a lot of the princesses (just personally).

maid marian : honestly why is she not a princess. i guess because king richard is her uncle? anyway, like captain amelia, she's an anthro fox lady, and also like captain amelia, she's chatty, charming, adorable and so lovable. another lady with class and a ton of personality. she's underrated. she'd probably be higher on my list had i grown up with robin hood, but i didn't, so i didn't get to know her until later.

nala : queen, funny, sassy, strong as hell; she holds the film together and is such a hero for bringing simba home. we didn't get a lot of time with her, which is very sad, but i love how good of a friend she is to simba, and she's so brave, too. she also takes no one's sh*t. here for it. we stan a lion queen.

wendy : my spouse loves wendy the most so i love her a lot more for that reason. she really had a thankless role in keeping all of those boys alive for the whole film and everyone was so mean to her, wtf. the way she was about to walk off the plank though like a boss? girl bye. you're amazing. freakin' STAN wendy.

nani : another gal with a thankless job, and i absolutely loved her relationship with david. also the fact that lilo was such a difficult child and made nani's life so hard, but nani never blamed lilo for anything, and never showed her the side of her that was frustrated and blamed her. actual girlboss.

vanellope : she reminds me of a kid version of someone i know so i like her for that reason, and her story is quite tragic. i also really like her relationship with ralph. and it cracks me up when she's like stop crying TAFFETA, lmao.

mirabel : she was cute but i didn't love encanto. i liked that she had to jive with... not having a power, and also was the family misfit, but other than that i didn't feel very much about her.

kida : i've only seen atlantis one time and i barely remember anything about it. kida was pretty cool from what i remember, and an original idea for sure, but yeah, i don't really have any thoughts about her otherwise.

tinkerbell : sorry but i gotta put her down here for not being a girls girl. i get it, she's tragic and all, and i do feel for her by the end, but i can't deal w/ the internalized misogyny she has. but i appreciate why other people like her and find her fun!

[burningvelvet]

on percy shelley & human connection & coping through art

to set the mood of this post i must say i'm writing it really quickly on my phone over a bowl of pasta with bread & broccoli & some orange flavored sparkling water & im still dressed in my outdoor wintery clothes (all black, knee boots, wool, silver chains & rings, although i mostly prefer gold jewelry).

so anyway today i've been kind of sad over ppl not replying to my texts & my usual reaction is to say "ok, guess i'll kms, wah wah, cry cry" but this sort of passively cynical joking schtick has gotten old & i would rather occupy myself some other way instead of moping about failed connections or the difficulty of initiating contact with anyone or the struggles of modern socialization as a whole.

instead, i will read the works of percy shelley tonight, and think about how he struggled with all of this over 200 yrs ago. of how hard he struggled to make leigh hunt and lord byron collaborate with him on their journal the liberal, and how he struggled all his life to build a positive community even in spite of years of bullying, ostracization, and family strife - he often felt like giving up, and like human connection was impossible, but he never gave in to apathy and instead he continuously curated his ideal life by seeking out other like-minded people, even when he occasionally embarrassed himself in public or when others were decidely averse to him or lukewarm in their reception. john keats didn't entirely take to him when they met and some of keats' friends straight-up disliked percy for being weird, but percy (though scarcely knowing him) loved keats as a brother-poet nonetheless, was generous to him, wrote one of his masterpieces in his favor, and died with a copy of his poems in his pocket.

percy always reached out to others and was a loyal friend even when others disrespected him or ignored him or just simply didnt love him as much as he did them. his letters to lord byron show how reverent he was to his friend, and how his affection was never returned in quite the same gusto, but, while still trying to keep his self-respect, percy quelled his frustrations and continued his correspondence with byron regardless. percy acted as the mediator between byron and claire even when his stress was so high it weighed heavily on his health. he actively tried to choose to be positive even when the people around him were negative or miserable. like most writers back then, he sent his writing to his idols, and sought mentorship from people he admired, like william godwin and leigh hunt, and he continued to respect them even when they took advantage of him financially (moreso in godwin's case).

anyway what i mean to say is that whenever im feeling lonely or rejected or alienated or socially stupid or am just second-guessing my role in society or whatever whatever whatever, i cling to creativity/art/literature/etc. even harder than i regularly do, because thats what it exists for.

i knew a therapist (not one i saw as a patient, but someone i knew through mutual interests in media/the arts) who said that a certain musical performance we both loved probably saved way more lives than any single therapist ever has. - the performance in question was david bowie's tokyo 1990 live recording of rock n roll suicide, an anti-suicide song (its available on youtube, go watch it lol, he performs it with so much conviction).

any way even though at the end of his life shelley sometimes felt like he was failing to achieve his dream of building a utopian art commune - he actually did succeed in introducing several people to each other in ways that changed peoples lives. his friends jane williams and thomas jefferson hogg got married only through his mutual friendship. whole literary societies have been started in his honor - to this day there are conferences & whatnot that meet annually - his life & writing continues to inspire people and bring them comfort - & he would be extremely proud of that - any artist would. the main goal of any famous dead writer is basically to become the imaginary friend of their future readers & he accomplished that - even though all the time he was wracked with doubt/depression/suicidality/illness/chronic pain, etc. - as a political/philosophical radical, he realized that having hope is one of the most influential & radical things one can do - & i'm glad that, even though this is a person who died over 200 yrs ago, there is at least one person who really resonates with me - even though we're from different centuries, different continents, different sexes, etc. - it's helpful to have positive influences to look up to, especially when they've also struggled in similar ways as you. and although shelley was pretty privileged (rich englishman) he really did struggle a lot mentally & physically - his life was a chaotic mess - and he wasn't perfect at all - but i think he's still inspirational for my previously mentioned reasons - his ceaseless hope. the last poem he was working on was titled the triumph of life, even though he wrote it during a deep depression. the last poem he published in his lifetime was hellas, which he hoped would raise money for the cause of greek war of independence. from the poem:

"Life may change, but it may fly not;

Hope may vanish, but can die not;

Truth be veiled, but still it burneth;

Love repulsed, — but it returneth!"

[jimmy-johns-was-taken]

What I think of you based off your favorite creepypasta

Please keep in mind that this is just my opinion !

Jeff the Killer

Anger issues much? And is that hot topic merch? Definitely an emo, but your music taste is amazing! You don’t back down from anything and you defend your friends a lot. Your also very opinionated, nothing wrong with that I guess. You definitely had a major crush on him and read those fanfics about him coming to your room and taking you to live in the slender mansion. Are you ok, mentally? I believe you like spicy food (every JTF fan I’ve met likes spicy food, so it’s now a stereotype). Also, your loud.

BEN Drowned

Fun fact : you cant cut everyone off and then expect to be mentally ok. You play video games not only because you like them, but you use them as an escape from reality. You probably hate it here on earth most of the time, but believe that there’s some good and something worth staying here. You had a weird childhood (FNAF, creepypasta, etc.) and might have been bullied for it, but now your cool and still like all that stuff. Your music taste is also great, but stop running from your problems. Honestly, I feel like if your a BEN fan, then you’ve been a fan of him for a long time now.

Eyeless Jack

Similar to BEN, you can’t just cut everyone off. Also books are not a substitute for people, go outside. Your definitely some kind of “special” student (like you know those gifted classes? At my school we called them special classes but they were the gifted classes it think. Anyways you were in those) and your burnt out. You probably want to go into medicine, or something really complex like that. Also, you thirst over this man so much, it’s a little concerning. Take a break from everything, just chill. Your music taste is ok, but you’ve got great taste in men. You might be a mom or therapist friend.

Ticci Toby

ADHD? Autism? Your somewhere on scale. How are those sensory issues? You seem like the kind of person who was “special” or “gifted” and you sat alone at recess picking at grass. Your competitive and enjoy the party when it’s people you know, but if it’s people you don’t know your not cool at all. Your awkward, but it’s ok! You probably had some kind of emo phase and at one point you kin him (that’s saying you don’t right now). Your music taste is cool. Also stop feeding the raccoons on your back porch and trying to justify it, I know your trying to build an army and it won’t work.

Tim / Masky

Two words : Daddy Issues. Like bro, take a chill pill. Your anger is violent, you probably have a hole in your wall where you punched it, but your working on it. You possibly smoke, or think smoking is hot. Your definitely a Marble Hornets (SlenderVerse in general) fan and have been for awhile. Your also really into the trope where the proxies have the personalities of the Heathers and your Veronica. You also really like true crime, like to a scary amount. Your music taste is cool, could be better I guess. Also, stop trying to hide from your problems, it’s better to face them.

Brian / Hoodie :

Your quite, but really cool. Similar to Tim, a big Marble Hornets / SlenderVerse fan. You like photography and urban exploring, as well as ghosting hunting. I feel like you had a Sam and Colby and/or Buzzfeed Unsolved phase at some point. Another true crime fan, but you enjoy fictional stuff like slashers more than real stuff. Speaking of, stop trying to hide from reality. It’s better to face it, but your smart and I’m sure you can figure it out. You find yourself in holes a lot, but you manage to get yourself out of them. Great music taste, your the dad friend, and overall super cool.

Jane the Killer

Your either thirst over her or kin her or both. You have great taste in just about everything, music, fashion, anything. Your probably some kind of goth, but if not goth then metal head. You had an Evanescence phase and don’t even try to tell me you didn’t because I know you did. A lot of people fall for you, and you have so many people on a leash, but you sometimes find yourself using them for your gain. I think this is something you don’t mean to do, and when you do it you feel terrible. Your an over-thinker, but don’t worry, your cool and look great.

Nina the Killer

Was invader zim your favorite childhood show? Or was it the grim adventures of Billy and Mandy? Either way your emo and scene, and your very proud to be one! Your proud to be who you are, and that’s amazing! Sometimes you get insecure, but I promise you looked great. Honestly, you strike me as the kind of person who either looks emo and listens to emo music, or the kind of person to look cute and soft but like to like grindcore and black metal. You hide from your own problems but jump head first into small issues. Take some time to yourself and just settle down. Don’t let anyone fuck with you or your style either, I love you and nobody should diss on the scene Queen.

Horray! Post! Sorry it’s longer than my normal content, I felt like writing more. Can you tell who my favorites are?

Request are currently Open !!!

[child-of-the-danube]

Ok, I need to preface this with saying that I have not read any of the Doom Patrol comics so I have no idea how well or in what quantity the show follows the comics so I have no concpet of spoilers/certainty as to how it will all end after next episode.

This is gonna be a long ass post so buckle up motherfuckers.

I am thoroughly worried with how it will all be wrapped up in a single episode. They have not gotten their longevity back, Immortus is still out there now planning world domination, Rita's basically dead, the Buttpocalypse future is on their doorstep etc. Either it will be all to quickly concluded with a Deus-ex-machina solution to everything given that Laura in one episode said that the future they saw was only one possible version of it and in this episode future Vic seemed way too calm finding out that his past self is being helped with the time portal thingy and saying it'll work out OOOOR the future they saw is really it and it's all a lost cause. I'm going to focus on my thoughts about the other one.

I would kind of prefer the sadder ending cause it would be more, I guess, poetic that these people turned mutant-turned superheroes who more than once saved everyone around them, the world and eachother, could not, despite all their effort, save themselves this one last time. Well, except for Vic but depends in what version of it.

Digression: I am also 99% sure the Immortimas episode was the one where Michelle and April kissed (which they mentioned in their insta live) cause if you look closely at the "Best friends" scene when they're really close together but we see Michelle's face more, April has her lips pursed and only switches back to a smile when Michelle moves her head away and I am so very calm and normal about this, not wanting to rip my skin off and scream into the void at all. It's fine, it really is :))))))))))))

I'm skipping talking about Rita since she wasn't in this episode at all. I'm assuming that they will either find her dead or on her last breaths once they return from the time stream unless, again, some magical solution falls from the sky immediately.

LARRY: I think of all the characters, Larry seems to be the one who's most prepared for his death. I feel like he always knew, no matter the longevity, that his body would give up on him at some point and was kind of always ready to go. He worries way more about Keeg than he does about what end is awaiting him. I love that he got to experience fatherhood once again through Keeg and I get his frustration about the Negative spirit not wanting to take care of Keeg, but if his end is set in stone, I could see him embrace the fact that he becomes "a new Sun". His journey started in space and ending it there as a new star would be full circle. In a way by becoming a star, a permanent part of the sky, he'd always be, though in new form, there for Keeg to see and visit.

CLIFF: I was wondering when and if it would be explained how Niles broke his back and I have to say I absolutely hate that it was Cliff given that, especially this season, a lot of shit seems to be portrayed as purely Cliff's fault. Like anything he touches or is given the role to take care off goes to shit. He has always been unlucky in that regard but I feel like the last thing in the "how can we fuck Cliff's already declining mental health up some more" arsenal should have been the fact that the first thing he felt in years wasn't his grandson but the blood and insides of another being he just killed. Like, I truly think that was the tipping point to break him completely, the rest is overkill. I hope if the spirit loop Buttpocalypse future is the end that he at least got to see and feel Clara and Rory once before returning to the Doom Patrol and accepting his end.

JANE: Similar to Larry, I feel like Jane got her resolution this episode. She finally said it out loud and accepted what truly happened to her. She became, both literally and metaphorically one with her whole self and can now be at peace, however long that might be, with the people she loves. She got her clarity in a way.

VIC: Vic being alive, well and teaching kids in the version of the future that saved them from the time stream is giving me hope that it might not all be set up to end tragically. That he might find his purpose and happiness after all. Cause of what use is it for him to be the last man standing in the future when everyone he loves is gone or soon to be gone. It's just survival, not life.

LAURA: Oh, boy. Oh, Lord. Here we go. Bare with me.

It's no secret she's my absolute favourite character and the one I have the most feelings and thoughts about. First of all, hats off to Michelle Gomez and her acting once again. You could feel the difference in past and present Laura not just by the way they are dressed but the mannerism, the speech, the body language, everything. The fear in past Laura's eyes not due to being beaten but due to the fact that she HERSELF is saying, or better, admitting, that she's in fact not a good person no matter how much she tries to delude herself or others. I love this character so deeply and that's why I am losing my mind over her.

Present day Laura saying she hasn't changed broke my heart into a million of peaces cause in the same way past Laura deluded herself into believing she's good, present Laura kept that same self hatred and turned it into convincing herself that no matter how much she tries, she'll never be good, she'll never escape her past, making people weapons or fucking it all up for the ones she truly cares about. For my Doctor Who fans, are you all reliving Missy's plot and the pain her end brought as much as I am???? And the "WE'RE THE FUCKING WEAPON" part??!!?!? Holy fucking shit. Her whole life and career she was hiding her abilities for her own safety and partially for the sisterhood's safety, declaring others as weapons, sending them off to fight and die but it truly was her who was the weapon. When you fire a gun, yes, the bullets are what ends up doing the job but they're disposable, you always need new ones to reload. What remains is the gun itself, needed for further firing of shots. Well, Laura was the gun and all those she branded weapons were just the disposable bullets.

It pains me inexplicably to say it, but I simply don't see any kind of happy ending for her. She has no one else but these bumbling idiots she met only a little while ago, who I'm not entirely sure would YET go to the lenghts she does for them for her, and Rita who:

a. Still hasn't fully forgiven her (I mean shit she called her a monster like 2 episodes ago)

b. Is on her death bed

c. I doubt would use her last breaths to tell her she's forgiven or admit that Laura does mean a lot to her

Nobody knows where she's in the future and I have a crippling feeling that it might be caused by Rita's death. If you think about it, all of them love Rita and will be there to comfort eachother after she's gone/as they inevitabely each go. Laura isn't dying. She has whatever natural time is left there for her still to go. She does not share their fate. And, as I've already said, they have known eachother for decades. Laura is someone they've basically just met, learned to trust even later, and in their mind to some degree the one who caused the Immortus stuff. If Rita dies, I have a feeling she will either immediately distance herself from them (or be distanced) or she'll end up watching all of them but Vic die one by one and then leave or worse...

So unless by some miracle everything turns out fine or after they're all gone she encounters Shelley and the Sisterhood and they embrace her, I see no bright ending there

Anyways, I'm booking therapy in advance cause I'm going to need it after next week more than I already did...

[davekat-sucks]

I realized that in order for postcanon Rose to stay “in character” between the end of the Candy epilogues and the most recent Homestuck: Beyond Canon upd8, Rose would have to be lying to John about how happy she is at the end of the Candy epilogue as a way to manipulate John into something… maybe just being content with his life in this narrative irrelevant timeline or maybe to make John think everything is a-ok in RoseMary central and don’t snoop around.

Either way this headcanon retcons Candy Rose from housewife of a sapphic couple living her golden years to a husk of a woman who has had her life destroyed yet weaved by her seer powers, to be someone who only does actions out of inevitability or to her best advantage, like a white woman version of Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen.

Of course it’s not inherently wrong to explore or analyze Rose’s god powers and how they both advantage and reconstruct her, especially after the retcon when Rose’s powers weren’t inhibited by alcohol. However, like most things in postcanon this exploration of the concept is hardly explored and rather focus goes to the consequences of the new motivations from the post-timeskip characters. Of course fans can do the heavy lifting and cherrypick from canon what Rose did post retcon and conclude that yes, it is in character for her to do this and the writers have been working hard writing deep, complex, and human characters. Just like they did for Jade and Jane.

It’s also once again a means to flanderize Rose as this super serious cunning thinker who is always 3 steps ahead and always grim and cryptic and rebellious because some voice(s) that commune to her speak of the true route for her to take.

Rose was being very serious when she talked with John about the incoming meteors and definitely did not play along with any wordplay or inside jokes among her friendgroup, she was being very serious when she made a moustache from a w magnet, she was being very serious in every conversation with Dave and all that banter was actually super cereal planning and coordination to enter her sburb session and Dave’s tendency to trail off or act cool absolutely did not invite any irony to the conversation that enticed Rose to tease Dave about his façade of being cool. Rose was being VERY VERY serious when she adopted Casey and renamed her to Viceroy Von Bubbles, very serious business indeed,

I’m sorry for going off the rails, I miss the old Rose.

It's alright. But you got good points here. Guess it isn't enough for Vriska to knock the alcohol out of her hands. Fanon had really seen Rose as this serious but cool calm goth girl, just like how Kanaya had imagined her to be when she read her walkthrough. But in reality, she was just as silly as the rest of her friends. It's a different kind of silly compared to Jade's genki personality. Sucks that characters like them can't be silly for silly sake.

[literaticat]

Hi, Jenn. I know you don’t rep adult, but I have an adult MS that’s really personal to me… and also triggering. I can’t imagine doing promo for it. Doing interviews and everything… I don’t know how I could. Do I have to? How do I even talk about it?

Q2: Do you think adult books require less personal interviewing and publicity as opposed to commercial or even most kidlit? I feel like it would be way harder to interview and do pub for like My Dark Vanessa or Beartown than a really fun MG about witches.

There are two questions about... ??? adult book publicity ???... which like, idk, I don't rep adult books????

But OK. For Q:1, yes, you probably DO have to promote your own book. But there are different ways to promote books, it's not like it has to be a non-stop series of invasive interviews.

I'd suggest you think about different angles -- ways to talk about your book. What is important to you here? What do you hope readers learn or understand, what's the takeaway you want to leave with readers?

It's OK to have boundaries around things you really don't want to talk about -- so explore the things you ARE willing to talk about. Like how you got into the headspace to write such a book. Like what you hope that other people affected by this kind of experience might do to heal. Like what it is like to write _____ {an unreliable narrator, or an abuser, or whatever your "thing" is!}

Your publisher can help you figure out things to do when the time comes -- for example, maybe there is ONE interview with a particularly good publication that would have a lot of reach. Or perhaps you don't want to do any interviews about the topic itself but you have other topics. Or maybe you would rather pitch ARTICLES or ESSAYS to publications about topics related to the book (that also promote the book) rather than do interviews. Heck, maybe there's an essay in this very question -- "How Do You Promote a Book When You Can't Talk About the Book? -- an essay by Jane Q Writer for Esquire in which the author explores the messy business of book promotion in the TikTok Era" or something.

Q2: Caveat that I have barely heard of those books and certainly haven't read them. I DO know that, sadly, most large mainstream publications don't give a rat's patootie about kid's books and certainly wouldn't deign to interview an author who wrote a fun MG witch book -- so while an interview for a fun MG witch book would almost certainly be "easier" in the sense of "it's more fun to talk about witches and kids books than it is to talk about abuse or whatever" -- that interview would probably have far less reach, since most adults don't read or care about MG books, so most large non-children's outlets don't bother covering them at all.

I did a quick google of your examples, though, and there are loads of interviews and articles about and by both those adult authors -- so, I guess they figured it out!

(And for the Q1 person, you might actually give "MY DARK VANESSA interviews" a goog yourself -- the first thing I found was the authors note in which the author gives a message to readers, and there are several interviews basically about how the author has these certain boundaries, but that explore things she IS open to talking about. The book is about a young woman who is in a... complicated relationship with an older teacher -- the author says that the book was inspired by some things she went through, but doesn't get into details about her own personal experiences -- but DOES talk about how she wrote the book, how her thinking about the topic changed as she got older, etc. So looking at that -- and other "difficult" books and how the authors talk about them -- might be good for you to look at as you think about how to talk about YOUR difficult book!)

[jenneferofjengaberg]

I just finished reading Red, White & Royal Blue and then I watched the movie afterwards. I had actually bought the book a couple of years ago but never got around to reading it. Then the movie dropped, so I decided to finally hurry up and read it before I was spoiled for every single plot point. Turns out that wasn't totally necessary, but more on that later.

First the book. I really liked it. Not the best book I've ever read or anything, but it was really good. Very cute and enjoyable. I loved the characters, and I liked that we basically had a modern day epistolary novel. Henry and Alex's emails and texts were so lovely and the romance was really sweet. Also, can't put my finger on it, but the book gave me real Jane Austen vibes? It was completely contemporary, and yet? Old fashioned at the same time, in the best sense of that word.

I also really weirdly enjoyed the political background. It was kind of bittersweet, being immersed in a fictional world where the disaster of 2016 never happened and democracy wasn't like, on the verge of toppling at any second.

Ok, now the movie. Let me say that I think the actors they chose for Alex and Henry were fantastic, and they probably have the best on screen chemistry I've seen in any romantic movie in a very long time. They were terrific, no complaints whatsoever about any of their scenes. They were adorable and sexy, just perfect. Nicholas Galitzine was, in particular, very good at portraying Henry's fragility and vulnerability, the desire to be loved authentically in a life that's stifled by artifice.

Zahra was also perfect. Literally can't imagine anybody better to play her than Sarah Shahi. It's almost like the role was written for her.

And yet, I am slightly disappointed in the movie. Mainly because they cut so many characters, and the ones that were left kind of got blunted. I mean, they got rid of June entirely. A whole sister and they got rid of her. Nora was there but she was way less developed than in the book. Not sure I could even describe her as having a personality at all in the movie other than "Alex's bff". They cut out the whole Rafael Luna plot, and replaced it with that Miguel guy, turning a minorly interesting political intrigue into a "jilted lover gets revenge" plot, but like, the most boring version of that trope ever.

I get that it's a movie and some things have to be condensed or changed. I don't mind them having Alex's mom and dad still being together and excising the stepdad or changing the queen to a king (in order to be sensitive I guess). But I do feel they could have made the movie 20 minutes longer and at least kept Alex's sister, and maybe made the Miguel plot at least somewhat resemble the plot with Rafael Luna. It's kind of like they got the main pairing and plot right, but phoned everything else in, which makes for a regretfully uneven film.

[pocketofpencils]

Questions for Writers

10000 years late! thank you @calunalilly for tagging me

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

a very modest 19 lol

2. What's your total AO3 word count?

163,620

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Last Tango in Halifax

Happy Valley

Collateral

1 Vigil fic lol

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

1: The Equation of Mass. : Caroline/Jane christmas fic. My first ever loooooooong one.

2: I Want You To See Me: Caroline/Gillian. Glasses are annoying, lets kiss about it.

3: Welcome Home: Vigil fic lol First ever thing I published on the internet.. Only 412 o words, thought people would hate it but I still get kudos and bookmarks on it 3 years later lol

4: Brunhilde and the Bastard in the Barn: Catherine/Jane Current WIP/Pain in the arse lol. Getting ready to wrap it up :')

5: Pain and the Passing of time: Caroline/Gillian. First LTIH fic, in first person *gag*. Makes me cringe, but also surprises me that I wrote that!

5. Do you respond to comments?

I try really hard to! My inbox overwhelms me sometimes haha! But I appreciate and read every comment I get! So thank you to the like 2 people who are probably reading this haha.

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

It is yet to be written! But I do have a mildly angsty one in mind.. Not a not happy ending.. Just happyish lol

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

Equation of Mass I guess. Most Fluffiest

8. Do you get hate on fics?

No! Thankfully. I only write there for fun. Any hate (that isn't warranted of course call me out if I fuck up) would probably make me stop posting haha.

9. Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

Yes.. Im a much better smut reader than writer I can tell you that lmao.

10. Do you write crossovers? What’s the craziest one you’ve written?

I mean at this point I think we have just accepted Jane into the Happy Valley landscape, so much so that its sometimes hard to remember she's plucked straight (or gay ;)) from another show. So I guess almost all of my works are crossovers haha

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

lol hands off my garbage

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

Ive had to explain words to my American friends.. does that count?

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

I just did my first colab with @calunalilly! I think were going for another..or 1000 <.< lol

14. What’s your all time favorite ship?

All the pairings I write for are my faves. i also love Mirandy :')

15. What’s a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

Lmao well anything Ive started I always have doubts I will complete. I am (very very slowly) writing my first book...and I have doubts but I am working through them!

16. What are your writing strengths?

I dont really know.. I think jokes? Funny is most important!

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

lol Grammar, formatting, imposter syndrome, actually writing lol. All things that I am working on. I also need to plan better to stop writing plot holes lmao. remembering fic is just for fun!

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language in fic?

Do what you want bro lol

19. First fandom you wrote for?

Published: Vigil.. I also wrote some unpublished Killing Eve and Doctor Who fics that will never see the light of day as I wrote them by hand (lol) and lost the notebook I wrote them in. So I hope who ever found that notebook enjoyed them lmaoooo

20. Favorite fic you’ve written?

ahhhhhh I dont know. I think Year of the Dog was the first one I wrote and was like: "Ok I can do this writing thing".

Everyone I would tag, has already done it so... :)

[spacedhead]

homestuck reread #11: act 6 p2

aranea first appearance!!! shes so beautifullll hi girl

okay so i think i misremembered this specific comversation. in a previous conversation with roxy, roxy accidentally IMPLIED that jane might have feelings for him. but then jake was like yeah i already know that she has a thing for me but then since he knows roxy isnt supposed to talk about it he agrees to drop it. then here he is like hey jane do you like me? be honest. just come out and say it. do you? and she is like clearly not ready to be honest yet so shes like uh no i dont

so then hes like oh you dont well thats crazy i thought you did. but then hes like . are you sure? and she is like... haha i guess not... GAHHH THIS IS SO PAINFUL TO READ. but the problem im finding is that i feel like jake is in the wrong here but like i dont know i might do the same thing. if i suspected someone liked me and then got soft confirmation from their best friend i might also approach the situation by asking for confirmation rather than being like I KNOW YOU LIKE ME. but maybe the real thing i would do is wait for them to tell me... i honestly dont know what the right answer is... like what was his best option here because what he did felt so wrong. and jane. poor jane. she is suffering with the weight of liking this FREAK . its just hard cause i wanted her to be honest but i also get why she wasnt

i dont even want to show this next part but jake after this is telling jane about how he thinks dirk wants to date him (which he does) and jane is just. suffering . but she keeps telling him to like go for it? like why are you sabotaging yourself like this?? i get shes trying to be a good friend but like at what cost girl your sanity?? and how is he this socially unaware when he has proven that he can pick up on the hints that jane liked him even BEFORE roxy accidentally implied it?? but now he cant tell that jane is OBVIOUSLY not happy with the situation. i actually cant tell if hes being a cruel person and deliberately ignoring her feelings or if hes just suddenly unable to pick up on her feelings. i GUESS in his defense there has been this ongoing theme of his friends saying that he has a tendency to believe people at face value and believe IN people. get it. because hope. but that is dumb and in my opinion a weak defense

to be fair. he is glasses

what heaven looks like (without the dead cat)

AHHHHH JUMPSCARE

god damn you. tumut

this is really cool

me every time i get mad and my friends call me delusional

this section of dirk giving jake the Lore is cool. look at alpha dave he is so awesome

holy balls look at rose too

HELL YEAH

Sadge

DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT JANE HAS A THING FOR YOU....... WHAT IS HAPPENING

hee hee look at lil seb

this baller ass panel. hes so cool he has a fucking SWORD

look at him go!!!!

AHHH I LOVE THIS PANEL EVERYONE IS SO SILLY!!!!!!

me when im the dumbest boy in paradox space

wait this makes sense to me. the seer of mind can see brain ghost dirk. that is so cool

I AM CRESTFALLEN. (also jane and roxy just died so that is very sad too. but they have dreamselves.) shit is kind of hitting the fan when all the alpha kids are trying to enter. also calliope just got name and appearance revealed so... hey

this is funny

HUHHHHH

ok so i watched s dirk synhcronize. really good flash! some things i noticed. 1. there is that tumblr post that is like dirk just high fives meenah without even knowing who she is or what a troll is. that is wrong he DOES know what a troll is and had already briefly met her like right before the high five happened . 2 its crazy that he has no fear or hesitation when he puts his own head in the transportalizer. like bro really just was willing to kill himself for his friends. i know that he lives bc of his dreamself but still to have ZERO hesitation shows how much he loves them all. 3 in the beginning of homestuck john needed a sledge hammer to open his cruxtruder and throughout the comic most of the characters have needed to drop something heavy on the lid to pop it open but dirk just fucking kicks it open with little effort . actual baller

based hal

this goofy ass scene look at roxys face its so me

fuuuuuck i just watched caliborn enter... lord english destroyed the dream bubble with the john who died and a couple dead daves... (and a bunch of alternate trolls) man i fucking HATE that guy....

shes real or somefin

dude. not cool

i fuckin love his hashtags

LOOK AT THEM

gender envy

im out of image space but ........ to be continued. this is definitely... like... i feel like after cascade the comic came to an abrupt stop. and it is taking a while for things to get going again. maybe once they arrive at the new session

[sofiiel]

Dial Tone Ch.6 | Untitled

Chapter Theme | Previous | Masterlist | Next

"Harvey?" You called entering Thatcher's, "Oh hey, you found her." He called to Mick and Axel. "Just in time, too." Mick hummed.

Walking up to Harvey, you looked up at him with an urgent gaze, "I need to borrow one of the clunkers." You said quickly. Harvey arched a brow, "this about Eddie?" He asked. You shrugged your shoulders and smiled faintly, stating, "is it ever about anyone else?"

Harvey tilts his head to a small rusty sedan, "take that one, owner skipped town on me. It runs, just... you know, don't need it to go fast." he said.

"We just need transportation." said Axel.

"What's happened?" Harvey asked you in a whisper, so that his other workers could not snoop. "Jason Carver is on a mission. He nearly crushed Gareth's hand." You told him.

"Kid has his mother's temper." Harvey sighed, "dated her a year, pretty girl, crazy as a loon when she was pissed." He said. "Yeah, madness runs in my family too, if he keeps pushing, Jason will find out just how much." You murmured.

The sedan started up behind you, "eh, it's not bad for a rust bucket." Axel said from his place behind the wheel. "You ok with getting in a car with these people?" Harvey whispered to you. Glancing over your shoulder, you watch as Mick took the back seat.

"I don't have any other choice, they can hold their own, and I need all the help I can get." You tell Harvey. He gave a nod as one of his employee's called out for him for the fourth time. "I'm coming, keep your drawers on!" He shouted back.

Exhaling, you turn and head for the sedan. "You got any idea where to start looking?" Mick asked you. "I feel like I've looked everywhere as it is. But that's just been where I expect him to be." You explain.

"Well that's stupid. Nobody hides where you expect them too." said Axel.

"I was hoping he'd be waiting for me somewhere he'd know I'd find him." You confess, "thinking back, yeah it was a bit stupid." you said, getting into the passenger seat.

"Did you get any leads on Jane?" You asked, trying to fill the silence as Axel steered the sedan up the quiet streets. "Not yet," he said. "Funnily enough, We can't find this Dustin Henderson anywhere."

"Y-you can't?" you stammer, "I just talked to him yesterday?" Squinting, you search your thoughts, "or...was that the day before yesterday?" You whisper. "The brat's losing it already, you can't remember?" Axel asked.

"Forgive me if my mind is a little scrambled." You snapped. "He always like this?" You turn to ask Mick. "It's kind of his default most days. It's cool, it means he likes you." Mick laughed.

"The hell it does. I'm nice when I like you." Axel grumbled.

"Mmmhm, like running away bullies?" Mick asked him.

"Shut up." Axel shot. "Where are we headed?" He asked.

"I guess... maybe we can check the Star Court ruins?" You suggest. "They've been slow with demolition. It's not the safest place to hide for your own health but, no one would look there, that's for sure." You explain.

"You're going in alone, I'm not going to be flattened for this guy." Axel warned. "I'm used to doing things on my own at this point." You said. "We're going in, Axe." Mick said. "Says you." He said.

You frown, "I hope the Mini is ok. Hopefully he didn't get snatched up too, following Eddie's tracks." You find yourself thinking. The anxiety that had waned with Mick and Axel's banter, started to boil once more.

"These two don't know the town well, maybe they just didn't look around well enough." You tell yourself. You side glance, "Then again, maybe Dustin is simply avoiding Jason, maybe Lucas warned him." Yourmind wouldn't stop going.

At the Star Court ruins, you look up at the half demolished building, they'd taken down the most unsound section that the fire engulfed. You'd heard the stories, they were vague, as most tragedies in Hawkins seemed to be. You knew the city lost it's police chief and lifted his name like a hero.

"In this town, the only way you become worth their time is if you die." You murmured as you stepped inside with cautious feet. "Will Byers, Benny, Barb, Heather, Billy, that shit ton of people who died in this fire." You think, peering around.

The building gave off deep muted groans and the sound of shifting rubble was unsettling. "Eddie?" you called out to him, "if he even heard that." you sighed, but shouting wasn't the best idea. "You'll bring the whole place down."

A car that was once a real showstopper lay tossed and crumbled on it's side. You could remember gawking at it the few times you and Eddie visited the mall to wreak havoc upon the mall betties. "Was that because of the fire or the demolition?" You asked.

"Do you always talk to yourself?" Mick asked you.

You'd completely forgotten she was there. "Only when I'm stressed, and then, much more than anyone should." You sighed.

"Eddie? " You called out again.

"Eddie? It's me, it's Y/n! If you're in here, you can come out. It's safe," as you spoke dust sprinkled from the second level and onto your shoes, "well, safe-ish."

"I don't think he's in here. Nobody would want to linger in this dump. I don't know him, but I'd expect he'd be running for a chance not to have to hide here." Mick reasoned.

"Eddie doesn't always think clearly when he's scared." You said in a sigh, "Once, we thought a robber broke into my dad's house one Halloween. He'd asked to have a horror movie marathon, and well. He thought the robber was hiding from us." You chuckled quietly, "Eddie stuck the pizzas in the oven and burned them, whole place filled with smoke, "smoke him out!" he said, great idea that was. Smoked us out too, I got in so much trouble. The smell of burned pizza was stuck in everything permanently." You said.

Mick shook her head, "and, was there a robber?" She asked. "Yep," you said words soft and fond, "A mouse."

"Dude really is a dumbass, isn't he?" Axel's voice chimed.

Both you and Mick turn to look over your shoulders, but only you were glaring. "I thought you said you weren't coming in?" she asked him. "Shut up, dorsal head." You snapped.

"I got bored, and that sedan smells like seven months of spilled booze and french fry grease." Axel complained. "Maybe that's just you?" You asked, "because I didn't smell any of that in that car, it smells like rust and leaked oil."

More of the rubble shifted and a baseball size chunk of glass crashed from the ceiling, landing between the three of you.

"Time to leave?" Mick asked.

"Yep, sounds good, he's not here." You say quickly.

"Where to now?" Axel asked, "Let try and find Dustin. Make sure he's ok." You said. Though you didn't know that would be a task easier said than done.

You'd been all over town, "come on Henderson, you are not this sneaky." You breathe, the sun was setting quickly, Mick and Axel were clearly running out of motivation.

"My feet are killing me." Axel complained as he trailed behind you and Mick in the woods. "Why'd the kid be out here anyway?" He asked.

"Looking for Eddie, probably. This chunk of woods we haven't checked yet, and -"

"I see a light." Mick said.

You fall silent and followed Micks finger as she pointed through the ever darkening trees. A flashlight blazed in the distance. "Do you think it's either of them?" Axel asked. "Could be, though, I don't think Eddie would be shinning a light about." You murmured.

"You're the one who said he gets a little ditsy when he's scared." Axel reminded you. "Not that bad," You sighed, "The guy smoked out your house over a mouse." Axel said flatly. "Because he thought it was a robber. He was concerned for our safety - shut up, I'm the only one who can make fun of him." You grumbled.

"And the guys, and Wayne, the only ones" you repeated.

"So odds that it's this Dustin?" Mick asked, ignoring the mildly bickering pair. "There's an even enough chance." You replied.

The three of you press on through the trees to find a small cabin. "This old thing looks like it's been abandoned for years." Mick muttered. "Sounds like a good enough place to hide, maybe you actually stumbled upon something useful, Brat." Axel said to you.

"How long are you going to keep calling me that to my face?" You sighed.

Motion could be heard behind the cabin, "Where's Lucas?" Patrick's voice questioned. You froze in place, whispering "shit."

"What is it?" Mick questions quietly.

"Sherlock is probably looking for more clues." Andy snickered.

"Can you two focus? Find the freak." Jason ordered.

"ooooh, the pretty little douchebag." Axel sang. "This little parasite is everywhere, isn't he?" Axel asked. "He has a reason, devil's advocate, but... I'd be on a rampage too if I was in his shoes. Not like this, though." you whisper.

"We should get out of here, neither Eddie or Dustin would be out here if they heard Carver and his goons." You said.

"I need to get back home anyway. Check on Wayne, and see if maybe one of them tried to reach me." you sigh.

"So you are in contact with him?" Jason asked. Your body cringed at the sound of his voice as he and his team walked around to the front of the cabin. Mick and Axel were quick to get defensive.

"We going to have a problem?" Mick asked evenly. Jason sized her up and scoffed. "That depends," He said. "Really, the tough act won't work here." Axel said. A smooth smile slipped across Jason's face as he rose his hands into the air, "maybe we can help each other." he said, steadily inching closer.

"Look," Jason pressed his fingers against his chest, "I'm just using tough love to loosen some tongues." He said. "You hurt Gareth," You shot. "I got a little...overzealous. You understand right? Look, we really just want to talk to the freak. Ask him some questions." Jason said.

"Yeah, like why the hell he was with Jason's girl in the first place." Andy muttered. Jason's jaw clenched.

"Easy. Chrissy asked me to set up a deal between her and Eddie after breaking down in the bathroom. So I said yes because she looked like she needed it. That's why." you answered.

"Eddie's a dealer, but honestly he cares about his customers."

"Chrissy isn't a druggie." Jason strained through clenched teeth. You tilt your head, "you don't have to be one to try it. Word of mouth makes things sound real good. Stress, self-doubt, pressure, expectations, burdens, they mess you up. Nobody is immune to the need to have a moment where you don't feel any of it." You said.

"That's why I'm here for her. That's my job, Chrissy would have come to me!" Jason shouted, his voice echoing through the trees.

Your breath gets caught, and for a moment, your heart aches for him. "I've been telling myself the same thing. We don't get to know why they don't come to us. We only get to accept and deal with the fact it didn't happen. You fuck up, and you don't always get to fix it. But what you don't do, is become something they'd hate." You said, glancing at Mick and Axel.

"Chrissy trusted Eddie. Obviously right? I mean, unless you think she's stupid enough to get into the car with a guy who she's afraid of?"

"Maybe he made her, forced her to go with him." Jason said.

"Are we talking about the same metalhead? Eddie's loud, he likes to shock people sporadically. But regardless of what he'd admit to, he's the nerd in the background just trying to be seen. And Chrissy is queen of Hawkins high, you got to have spine for that role." You were struggling to stay civil with your tone as you spoke.

Axel gave a bored sigh, "Can I just knock him out, put him to sleep. We need to report back to Kali." he said. "It's not off the table." You muttered.

"You know what I think?" Jason asked, closing in on you. You tried to hold his gaze as he stood nearly nose to nose with you.

"I think you're hiding him. I think you're playing the whole town with the devastated girlfriend/boyfriend routine. I think you, and all the other freaks, know exactly where Eddie is. I think you're trailing us, to throw us off," Jason's voice turned into a low growl, "and I think you're all in on what happened to Chrissy, with that sick cult. I think you never left it, I think you're lying." He whispered.

"I think you've lost your mind" You speak calmly.

Jason flashed a scornful smile, "I hope when the police find him, that they dust off the chair and fry him. I hope you get to watch, so you know this feels." Jason whispered, seethed through cracked words.

Dragging the mucus up your throat, you spat a glob out at Jason's face. "Screw you Carver, you hateful son of a bitch!" You shout, lunging forward. Axel was quick to take your arm. "No, not worth it." He said quickly as Jason backed away with a chuckle.

"See?" Jason called back to his team.

"She/he had murder in her/his eyes! It doesn't take much. Loyal dog to the Leader!" Jason called out.

"You're insane, Carver, go get help!" You shout, allowing Axel to pull you away. "Come on, let's go, any more run-ins like this, and you'll be in hiding too." Mick said.

Sitting alone in your room, you hold your phone in your lap. There weren't any messages, and you'd been staring at it for the past hour, trying to will it to ring. "I should try calling, I don't know how he'd pull it off, but home would be the last place anyone expected him to be." You try to justify the aching need to call.

"Or I could leave a message, just in case if he isn't there, one day he might return. Remind him he can come to me." You pick up the receiver and hold it to your ear as you dial.

"Or maybe you just want to hear his voice anyway you can." your mind whispered.

"Yeah, I'm not here, you know what to do."

*BEEP*

You exhaled, your hopes weren't too high. But the lazily spoken voicemail prompt hit your ears like a salve against your soul. "Eddie? If you get this, I'm looking for you, I am on your side, and I'm here, always. I know we weren't talking, but. I just need to know you're ok. It's the end of day two and my nerves are shot. We might not be a thing anymore, but you still matter to me, you little-" you sigh "just...let me know, a sign or, or something. Bye, I guess..." You murmured, hanging up.

Looking to the doorway of your room, you find Wayne leaning against it, in his hands two trays of TV Dinners. "Chicken fried steak and the twilight zone?" He asked.

You look up at Wayne timidly, "Isn't that you and Eddie's thing?" You asked. "Yeah, but you're family, you can be his substitute for now." Wayne offered. You managed a smile, "sounds good." you said.

Wayne manage to coax a few laughs out of you while watching the twilight zone, sing "how dry I am" with the character in the storyline.

But when the time for sleep came around, the silence left you sick. The person you'd call to feel better was the cause and unreachable. "It's karma at it worst." You thought, biting your lip. The cord to your phone was stretched to sit on your bedside table.

You lay there watching it, reaching out, you pick it up and dial, one.

"Yeah, I'm not here, you know what to do."

You sigh at the sound of his voice, the tears well again. At the beep, you dial again, each time your finger hits the speed dial faster. You draw your teeth from your lip, breath shaking as the water rolling down the side of your cheeks.

Rolling over onto your back your eyes camp shut, the fear bubbles over, and it shakes your body, you stuff your wrist in your mouth to silence your sobs, muffled cries taken in by the recorder of the phone. At the 6th beep, it dawns on you, and you quickly hang up. Pawing the tears away from your face.

You hold your stomach as it feel sick and try to calm yourself once more.

"She/he did what?" Robin asked with an amused smile, "Yeah, Y/n's a bit..." Dustin lulled, "Protective." Lucas said. "They're like that with each other, Eddie wouldn't hurt a fly but-"

"Beg to differ," Steve muttered, "not gonna let that go huh?" Max asked. "Could have been my neck." Steve said.

"That and I've seen him swat a fly in gym class." Steve added.

"You know what I mean!" Dustin shouted in frustration, "But he kicked Theo Garcia in the nuts first semester, Theo was high and was flirting a little too aggressively." Dustin said.

"Oh, I remember people talking that! He like felt up their butt or something. I heard it was bad for Theo." Robin said.

"Yeah, his sister said he was walking funny for three days, Didn't know that was Y/n and Eddie." Steve said as he lowered his lamp.

"Jason and the team are going berserk. It's pretty bad." Lucas said.

"Y/n's on a mission herself, things could get hairy if they clash again." Dustin said. "We've heard stories, Eddie brags about each one. But, sometimes I don't think he sees it, Y/n's...."

"a little mental? Yeah, you should have heard Her/His mouth towards Nance when Barb went missing. Blamed her bad, Nancy was in tears for days." Steve muttered.

"Eventually she/he said sorry but, was a little wild." Steve said. "Nancy said Barb told her Y/n suffers from messed up shit her/his parents did or...suffered from or something." Steve said.

"Eh, Eddie called it abandonment issues." Dustin shrugged. "Either way, we need to fix things because the whole town goes crazy, and It gets to Max."

"Before what gets to Max?" Lucas asked cautiously.

Morning turned quickly, you don't remember when you got dressed or putting on your clothes, but you did it. With a vague memory of the breakfast Wayne left you in the microwave, you don't remember tasting it or smelling it.

You exit the library with two packs of printing paper worth of flyers Wayne helped you make. Tucking the heavy stack into a messenger bag, you exit the library with one in your hands.

"It's a good picture." You think to yourself as you absently head for your bike.

"Hey, long time, what are you doing?" A voice called you'd not heard since freshman year. Turning around from the bulletin board in the park, your eyes fall on an odd pair relaxing in the shade of a tree.

"Oh," You exhaled, eyeing the boy with short hair dyed a dirty vivid blonde, and a face full of makeup. "Huh, good use of blush, Pj." You murmur. Pj and Samantha glanced at each other and then back to you.

"What's that?" Asked Samantha, pointing to the flyer you'd stuck to the bulletin. "Ah, you know..." You murmured, "It's all over the news that Cunningham was killed at Eddie's house." said Pj. "Nobodies said anything about him, though." said Samantha.

Your breath comes out shakier than you'd hope for as you mumbled, "Because no one can find him." as you pass the pair a flyer. "It's been three days. No one's heard from him. No one's seen him. He hasn't even called Wayne." You explained.

"He didn't call is uncle?" Pj questioned with hints of worry.

You shake your head. "Well, that's stupid, someone could have him somewhere, or he could be-" Samantha swallowed her words as she watched your eyes become distraught.

"Sorry," Samantha whispered.

"Here, give us a few, we'll help you post 'em." Pj offered, holding out his hand. You glance between them, "Look, I know things soured after..." Pj sighed giving his head a shake, "Nevermind, but we're still your friends, I'm still your friend and I wouldn't be who I am if I didn't have Freak the first to tear down some walls so...give me some flyers." Pj said.

With a small smile and battling the urge to cry again, you pass Pj a stack of flyers. "strangelings need to stick together, right?" Samantha asked, taking half of the stack from Pj.

"Thank you." You said, "both of you."

"Yeah," said Samantha. With a bow of your head, you adjust your bag on your shoulder and hop back onto your bike. "You know we'll be here, right? If you every just....need somebody?" Pj asked.

"Thanks, but I'm sure I need the clarity." You call to him. Pj frowned, "I wasn't talking about the stuff, Y/n." He muttered. "Yeah, Pj's a year clean now." Samantha said with pride. You manage a small smile, "I'm sorry, that's great. Well done." You said.

Pj smirked, "yeah, so, you can call us." He offered again. You manage a nod and ride away.

Eddie chuckled to himself as he exited the bathroom of Reefer Rick's home, "You might be loosing it, when a whiff of soap gives you a feel good boost." He muttered to himself. "Y/n and you're Yardley must have." He thought, shaking his head.

"But it smells like her/him, so it smells like," Eddie's thoughts exhaled into a sigh, "safety." he muttered. Eddie glanced around, "what did I do with the knockoff of wannabe Michigan J Frog." He muttered.

"You should just have Dustin send her/him a note or something." Eddie thought to himself, "or you could send her/him a note," his mind went on. "Buuut that's probably a bad idea. No matter what you tell Y/n they'll still rush into bullshit nose first." Eddie thought.

Eddie flopped down on the small sofa in the messy living room, leaning his head back to watch the ceiling. "I just want to hear your voice, make that silly little laugh come out, and I'm good for days." Eddie muttered.

To remove his thoughts from the surrounding chaos, his mind had taken on the hobby of replying the break-up, and every time Eddie went over things in his head, he found the whole thing ridiculous. "We're both kind of stupid, aren't we?" He asked, cracking a derisive smile.

Eddie looked down towards the windows, where the blinds and curtains were pulled shut. "When all this is over with, we can fix this." a tiny smirk lingered briefly on his lips, "after all, if you're crying your pretty eyes out for me, you never wanted an end to us anyway." He whispered.

Eddie groaned, "too bad it only took us months to defeat Vecna the first time. Let's hope for many crit rolls this time around."

Previous | Masterlist | Next

[sl-newsie]

Spelled (Carlos de Vil x Sanderson Daughter)- Ch. 16: I'm In Love With A VK

“Rise and shine, Magica!”

Sunlight floods into my dorm and I yank my blanket over my eyes. “Tiffany, the reason weekends were invented was because people actually want to sleep in! Shut the drapes!” Also the fact that I was up at 5 a.m. doesn’t help.

She just waves it off and fetches a new set of clothes from my closet. “Come on now, sugar. The big game’s today! Show some Auradon spirit!”

“I will when I actually care,” I grunt.

“I made scones!” She drawls in a sing-song voice.

With new-found energy I hop up and start bustling around. “Why didn’t you say so?”

Once I’ve gotten dressed and Tiffany has paid me in delicious scones, we make our way to the lockers hallway to meet up with the other students. When Audrey rounds the corner, her preppy grin melts into a disgusted grimace.

“You’re still wearing that? It was a joke!”

I take off my new hat and dramatically examine it, holding it out for all to see. “Had a change of heart. Evie helped dress it up a little. I think it’s elegant.”

Rosaline sniffs. “Isn’t that the kind of hat witches wear?”

Even Jane starts to share their distaste. “Yeah, Magica. It’s a bit… goth.”

I let their snippy insults wash over me and I continue to walk with Tiffany, head held high. We meet up with Ben and Chad, and (of course) Audrey has to follow us.

“Ready to win, Brother Ben?” I give him a playful punch to the shoulder.

“I’m a bit nervous, actually.” The future king gives me a nervous smile.

Just as I’m about to suggest a positivity spell, Jay and Carlos walk past to join Evie and Mal at their lockers. Jay’s got a crowd of giggling girls following him, while Carlos looks as if he’s about to die of boredom.

“Ugh. How can they stand to fawn over that- that villain brute?” Audrey rolls her eyes.

“Better him than dim-wit Chad.” I point to the retard royal.

“Just give them a chance, Audrey-” Ben tries to reason.

“But did you hear about the spells Mal’s been using for those girls’ hair? Gateway magic, Ben! Soon everyone else will look good and then… where will I be?”

“On the same level as everyone else, sweet pea. It’s so humbling!” I cackle as I go to lean on the lockers next to Ben.

“By the way, nice new hat, Sparks!” Ben gives me a thumbs up.

“Evie can work wonders!” I laugh as I twirl the gorgeous hat in my hand.

Audrey just scoffs and plants a sappy-looking kiss on Ben’s cheek. “I will see you tonight after my dress-fitting for the coronation, ok Bennie Boo?”

“Bye,” Ben says with false anticipation.

When Audrey’s gone I give him a look. “Brother Ben, here’s my next piece of advice: get rid of her! At least find a girlfriend who’s tolerable-!”

“Hey Bennie Boo! I just made a batch of chocolate chip cookies, you want one?” Mal calls from her locker.

I shrug and look at Ben with raised eyebrows. “Better her than Audrey! I can see you’re needed elsewhere, my liege, so I will bid you adieu!”

But Ben just shakes his head and holds a hand up to Mal. “Oh, thanks Mal but I’ve gotta get to the tournament. Next time, next time!”

She tilts her head and, am I crazy, or is she really putting out the ‘I’m innocent’ look?

“I completely understand, be careful of treats offered by strangers, right?”

“No, no! I mean-” Ben holds his hands up.

“No, I get it! You’re cautious, that’s smart! Oh well, more for me I guess…”

I sigh. “Ben, it’s a cookie! The most you’ll get is a stomach ache.” I take a closer look and frown when I start to see a strange magic radiating off of them. Are these the cookies they made last night? “I will admit it’s a friendly gesture, but on second thought-”

Mal groans. “Oh great, Queen of the Killjoys. Guess nobody wants a cookie-”

“No, you know what-” Ben swipes a cookie and pops it into his mouth. “I’d love one! Here, Sparks!” Ben takes another cookie and shoves it into my mouth.

“Ben! Muphhh-!” I try to talk as I chew the pastry, but soon a new, warm feeling begins to melt through me and I start chewing slower.

“How are they?” Mal asks.

“They’re great! Y’know, they’re chewy, soft, warm… sweet… Mal, have you always had those little gold flecks in your eyes?”

Huh? I try to make sense of Ben’s new liking to Mal, but at the same time can’t stop looking at Carlos….

He’s standing by Jay, and when he sees me looking my instinct tells me to look away, but… this new feeling has me wanting to keep looking. It’s like every time I see his soft, brown eyes I get drunk on- what is it? Love? But that’s impossible… Witches aren’t supposed to fall in love. Villains never get a happy ending, yet all I can think about is how much I want to spend time with Carlos.

“Carlos… I know I’m staring, I’m sorry. It’s just… you have such cute freckles, and soft eyes…” I walk over and grab his hand. “And you’re always so nice to me.”

Carlos gives me an odd look, but when he sees the cookie crumbs on my face he looks over at Mal, horrified.

Carlos’ POV

“She ate a cookie? Why did you let her?” I ask frantically.

“What’s wrong, Carlos?” Magica speaks up and I freeze. “You’re too cute to look stressed.”

A blush spreads over me and I stare at my feet. “You don’t mean it, it’s just the cookie talking.”

She shakes her head. “Of course I do, silly. I wouldn’t say that if I didn’t mean it.”

God, this is a tough situation!

“Ben, we gotta go!” Chad calls. I never thought I’d be so grateful for him to interrupt.

“Um, ok… See you later, Mal! You’ll be at the game, right?” Ben says with a dopey smile.

Mal smirks. “Sure will be.”

“See you after the game, champ!” Magica kisses my cheek and skips off to join Ben and Chad.

But as much as I appreciate the kindness, I can’t accept her affection when I know it’s all fake.

“Carlos, it wasn’t my fault. Ben just shoved one in her mouth!��� Mal hisses.

“B- But I wanted her to love me without being spelled! How do you break it-? Wait, no! If she finds out she’ll hate me! What should I do?!”

Jay comes over and pats me on the back. “Enjoy it, bro. You just got yourself a girlfriend without trying.”

“What? No! I’m not gonna take advantage of her like that!”

“Would it help to know that she likes you back?” Evie tries to help.

“No, she doesn’t! She always flinches and shies away when I’m around and never once said anything about liking me.”

“That’s because she thought you’d never like her back, Carlos! Magica’s never even had a boyfriend!”

Wait- never? Evie’s words leave me wondering how on Earth a girl as beautiful as Magica hasn’t ever had a boyfriend. She should have boys crawling over each other just to look at her!

Magica’s POV

I feel like I’m walking on air! I don’t know why, but after eating that cookie it’s like someone ironed out all the wrinkles of worry in my brain! And Carlos… He’s like a drug! All I can think about is how happy he makes me… I knew I liked him, but now it’s like my love is magnified. I can’t put my finger on it, but I can tell something’s off-

“It’s time for the game to start!” Tiffany drags me to the bleachers, and if it weren’t for wanting to cheer Carlos on I wouldn't ever think about attending such a crowded, noisy event. When the game starts the announcer’s voice gets muffled out by the screaming students, but when I see Carlos start to sprint across the field the whole crowd gets drowned out.

Look at him… What is it about him that makes me feel so funny? I guess it all started when I- When I ate that cookie. It must have been a love potion of sorts. I was right! The VKs were planning something! But what…? A love potion isn’t exactly a big, evil scheme. If anything it helps Ben get rid of Audrey.

While I’m thinking of possible motives, Jay and Carlos are distracting the opposing team to let Ben through- and score the winning goal!

“And it’s the new guys, Jay and Carlos, who set up the prince for the win! What a victory!” The announcer shouts.

“Go Carlos, go! Great job, VKs!” I cheer while I pump my fist in the air. I expect the team to go off to celebrate once Ben’s been handed the trophy, but I’m proven wrong when the future king (still with a stupid smile on his face) gets up and takes the mic from the stand. He starts getting the crowd to chant Mal’s name, which has me puzzled. But then I see Carlos coming off the field and I blank out.

“Hey, Carlos!” I wave and climb down from the bleachers. “You were fantastic!”

The freckled VK lets out a big laugh and goes to hug me, but then freezes up and backs off.

“Thanks, Magica! I was so nervous about that last round, but I actually helped! Ben said if it weren’t for me then we never would’ve won!”

My smile turns into a frown. “Speaking of which, what is up with him? He’s acting all lovestruck-crazy for Mal. I’ve never seen him like this!”

Carlos gets slightly jittery and tries to avoid the topic. “Uh I dunno… Maybe he’s tired of Audrey?”

“If that’s the case, I’ll be so happy!” I roll my eyes. “That drama queen’s been driving me up the wall, and this’ll be one very painful thorn in her side.”

Just then we both turn to see Ben climbing up to Mal’s seat in the bleachers, with sweat still pouring down his face.

“I love you Mal!”

Mal, on the other hand, tries to look like she cares, but I can see in her eyes that it’s all a hoax. Everyone else is buying it though, because a very pissed-looking Audrey pushes through.

“Chad’s my boyfriend now!” She pulls the Charming moron over and hastily gives him a kiss. Done with one prince, onto the next.

It washes over Ben like nothing, and he looks back at Mal. “Mal! Will you go to the coronation with me?”

She pretends to be flustered and excitedly shouts into the mic: “Yes!”

“She said yes!” Ben cheers.

Ben hops off to join the rest of the tourney team’s celebration, and Carlos gives me one last goodbye wave before following him.

Evie’s face falls as Chad and Aurdey wander off, and I go over to give her hand a quick squeeze. “Like I said, a royal fool. It’s for the best, Evie. My advice is to never rely on anyone but yourself. The less people you have in your life, the less chance for disappointment.”

She attempts a sad smile, but still seems discouraged. Mal starts giving her a pep talk so I let them be and start back to the school. While I’m walking I keep thinking about those cookies. Why would the VKs want Ben to change relationships? Carlos sure is cute… Does Mal really like him, or is this a part of something bigger? Does Carlos know I took the love potion-?

“Ugh! Fight the potion and stop thinking about Carlos for two minutes!” I argue with myself when I get to my dorm. “You don’t even know if there was a love potion in that cookie!”

“What happened?” Binx asks from my bed.

“I… I… I think I took a love potion.”

Binx hops up. “What?! When? Who had it? Are you alright?” 

“No, I’m fine. Just… very hazy. All I can think about is Carlos. Mal gave some cookies to Ben, and he stuffed one in my mouth when I tried to warn him. Afterwards my mind went all fuzzy and I suspect it was drugged with a love potion. I- I think I have the right ingredients for an antidote, but it will take until midnight to properly brew.”

I stumble over to the dresser to dig mom’s spellbook out, and Binx jumps up on the shelf.

“Ok ok, calm down. The love potion’s making you drowsy, and you need to start mixing it now or else it’ll get stronger. What do you need?”

“Uhhhh,” I drone as I scan the shelves with droopy eyes. “Wiggentree twigs, castor oil, gurdyroot, and rose thorns. First I chop the gurdyroot and let it simmer, then add dried wiggentree twigs until it turns black. That is if I can stay alert for that long.”

“Don’t worry, I’ll keep you focused. Step by step, ok? First get the cutting board…” 

The next hour goes by in a slow blur and contains Binx batting my head every five minutes to keep me going while I drowsily prepare the antidote in my small cauldron. Once the gurdyroot and wiggentree twigs have boiled I then add the rest of the ingredients, allowing the brew to turn pitch-black and start smelling like black licorice.

“It even smells bad,” Binx says with a scrunched nose.

“Um… Do I really want to do this?” I ask with uncertainty as I ladle some into a goblet.

“What do you mean? Do you want to spend forever being on this manipulative potion, unable to think clearly?”

“But it lets me be with Carlos… It means I can be happy! Once I take this then I’ll go back to being distant, angry Magica, with my temper hanging on by a thread. Isn’t that dangerous?”

“Not as dangerous as letting your emotions be manipulated.” Binx puts a paw on my shoulder. “As much as you might think you’re better off with it, it’s best to take the antidote and take control again.”

Sadly, deep down I know he’s right.

“Well… here’s to feeling sad and lonely again.” I bring the cup to my lips and down the antidote in one quick gulp. After waiting a few moments I think I messed it up, but then I start to feel something. It’s like the warm feeling I’ve had the past few hours is draining out of me. I don’t feel sick or disturbed, and yet… I feel very alone. As if I will always be cursed to carry out life by myself. Like coming off of drugs or alcohol, love potions can manipulate the senses just as harshly.

“Did it work?” Binx asks anxiously.

I nod and look away, not wanting to tear up in front of my feline friend. “Yes. It worked. It was a love potion.” I look over at the leftover antidote in the cauldron and fetch a small vial. “I think I’ll save this just in case Mal’s plan for Ben gets too out of hand.”

“Why don’t you tell him?”

I wipe a small tear away. “Because maybe Ben and Mal will be good for each other. I’m not one to play matchmaker, but I’ll see what happens.”

Binx jumps down and struts away from the foul-smelling cauldron. “And what about Carlos?”

The past few hours come rushing back and I smack my forehead. “Dear God- How am I going to be able to face him? I made such a fool of myself! But… I think I really love him, without the potion. I’m in love with a VK…” My gaze drifts off to stare at the wall.”

Binx shrugs. “If he feels the same, he’ll show it. If he doesn’t say anything then just go along as if it never happened.”

Just disappear into the background, be normal… I guess that’s something you’ve had to do your whole life. Why change now?

[pesterloglog]

Harry Anderson Egbert, Vriska Serket, Vrissy Maryam-Lalonde, John Egbert, Tavros Crocker

Page 195-196

DO YOU LAND ON YOUR FEET ARE YOU TENSE WHEN YOU SENSE THERE'S A STORM IN THE AIR

HARRY: ok everyone, my dad's calling.

HARRY: if he finds out you're here then he will definitely put two and two together, so PLEASE just keep quiet and let me do the talking.

VRISKA: Sure thing.

HARRY: er,

HARRY: hi dad.

VRISKA: HI JOHN!!!!!!!!

VRISSY: Hi Mister Eg8ert!!!!!!!!!

HARRY: oh god dammit.

HARRY: um.

HARRY: so.

HARRY: i guess.

HARRY: first of all,

JOHN: HELLO SON!

JOHN: I AM

JOHN: SO

JOHN: VERY

JOHN: PROUD OF YOU!!!!!!!!

HARRY:

JOHN: PHEW, that felt good to say.

JOHN: or to yell, i guess. heheh.

JOHN: sorry about that, harry anderson.

JOHN: i just didn't think i'd be seeing your handiwork all over the news quite so soon!

HARRY: so...

HARRY: you know about it.

JOHN: yep! you think i wouldn't have recognized your school?

HARRY: right... and you're not like... mad? about the dead body and vriska and stuff?

JOHN: son,

JOHN: it looks like you tried to pull one of the biggest pranks i can think of.

JOHN: and it backfired!

HARRY: y... yeah.

JOHN: but that's ok!!!

JOHN: it could have happened to the best of us.

JOHN: ok, so maybe it wasn't the most original idea.

JOHN: and you should probably have steered clear of such a blatant nod to weekend at bernie's without seriously planning some of the logistics in advance.

JOHN: i know that they make it seem so easy in that movie, but it's important to remember that not everything on the big screen translates easily to real life.

JOHN: ESPECIALLY when dead bodies and clowns are concerned.

JOHN: but these are all mistakes that any amateur prank master has to make some time.

JOHN: and besides, you managed to keep quiet about it the whole time we were chatting earlier. i was completely fooled!

JOHN: but you had to get one up on the prankster's gambit against me someday. honestly, it feels like an early birthday present or something!

JOHN: so i guess what i'm saying is that... you should be proud of yourself.

HARRY: ok dad.

HARRY: um, thanks.

JOHN: so. you're still at your mother's house?

HARRY: yeah... i couldn't think where else to go.

HARRY: you obviously just heard, but both vriskas are here. tavros too.

HARRY: i think the girls are fighting? i don't really know. it's very confusing due to the fact that there are... well.

JOHN: two of them?

HARRY: yeah.

HARRY: i think two vriskas is more than enough for anybody.

JOHN: heh. two vriskas is NOTHING.

JOHN: when i was your age i lost count of all the vriskas i had to keep track of.

JOHN: it was probably some preposterous number.

HARRY: hahaha.

JOHN: and tavros? is he ok?

HARRY: i think so.

HARRY: he seems his, uh,, usual self,,,

JOHN: now, harry anderson, i know that you and tavros haven't always gotten along.

JOHN: but i am going to have to ask you to try and look out for him for the time being.

JOHN: your uncle jake and i... well, i'll explain later.

JOHN: let's just say that gamzee isn't the only family member jane is losing today.

HARRY: dad... if you wanted me to KILL tavros, you only had to ask.

TAVROS: (Um,,,)

HARRY: couldn't resist.

JOHN: can you see out of the window?

HARRY: yeah, i'm looking right now. the place is heaving with reporters.

JOHN: i thought so. the press didn't take long to come to the same conclusion i did. you're on the news already.

JOHN: and it's the same story here. people with cameras are crawling all over the yard.

JOHN: which means jane's secret police are there too. the drones won't be far behind.

HARRY: oh fuck.

HARRY: sorry, i mean. oh... farts.

JOHN: harry anderson egbert.

JOHN: the word "fuck" was invented for moments like this.

HARRY: haha?

JOHN: but anyway, you need to get out of there, fast.

JOHN: try to create some kind of distraction or something, and then head for the bell tower.

HARRY: you mean the one they hang the dirk strider memorial effigy from every year?

JOHN: yes, that's the place.

JOHN: i'll meet you guys up there.

HARRY: um,

HARRY: ok dad.

JOHN: oh, and harry?

JOHN: just some small pieces of advice.

JOHN: some guidelines that any budding prankster or newly fledged fugitive should know.

JOHN: don't panic,

JOHN: don't make a scene,

JOHN: and whatever you do...

JOHN: don't get caught!!

[writingmaidenwarrior]

Happy STS!

Here’s a weird one: Based on your current life/personality, what do you think some of your past lives would be if you lived in the world of Rebellious Souls? Would you be okay with following one of those specific paths?

For example: I’m pretty sure I was a chef in a past life because I have been told I have an excellent palate and I enjoy creating my own recipes. If I was told I had to become a professional chef, I think I’d be okay with it for the most part.

~ @tabswrites

Happy STS @tabswrites

Argh you wanna kill me with the asks for Rebellious Souls, admit it, but I love you for this.

Honestly, I don't know what a past life might have been. I am this weird jack of all trades, master of none kind of person. I guess, I would be one of those 80% who are just an average Joe/Jane who wouldn't be be asked to follow their past life's path.

If there was a past life that would make them come for me to make me follow it's path I might have the same kind of issue like Amren and Keir lol. With this I mean, that I might have been some sort of politician or something like this that would be needed considering how many times I got told how eloquent I can be if I want something, how I am able to confuse people with words ( I work in damn costumer service) and manipulate them into doing what I want if needed, and I can be pretty argumentative when I feel I was wronged or something isn't right. My sense of justice had been an issue many times.

If we take this as premise... I wouldn't be really ok with this because I know this would bring out a side of me I don't like.

(We just ignore the irony that exactly this is happening to my boys...)

[the-rewatch-rewind]

Long fun episode featuring my brother!

Transcript below the break

Hello and welcome back to The Rewatch Rewind! My name is Jane, and this is the podcast where I count down my top 40 most frequently rewatched movies in a 20-year period. Today I will be discussing number 20 on my list: Miramax, Jane Starz Productions, and Blessington Films Productions’ 2004 fantasy comedy Ella Enchanted, directed by Tommy O’Haver, written by Laurie Craig, Karen McCullah, Kirsten Smith, Jennifer Heath, and Michele J. Wolff, based on the book by Gail Carson Levine, and starring Anne Hathaway and Hugh Dancy.

Cursed with the “gift” of obedience in infancy, Ella (Anne Hathaway) becomes increasingly desperate to break free when her father remarries, and her step-mother and step-sisters (played by Joanna Lumley, Lucy Punch, and Jennifer Higham) take advantage of her forced compliance. Finally she runs away to find and confront the fairy who cursed her, and makes several friends along the way, including an elf named Slannen (Aiden McArdle), and, of course, a prince named Charmont (Hugh Dancy).

I didn’t see this movie in theaters, but I did see it the year it came out. I watched it once in 2004, seven times in 2005, once in 2006, once in 2008, once in 2009, once in 2012, once in 2013, twice in 2014, once in 2015, once in 2016, twice in 2019, and once in 2021. The vast majority of those viewings were with my brother Quinn, so I asked him to join me and help explain why we love this movie so much. We had a very long, very fun conversation that I hope you will enjoy.

Hi, Quinn!

Quinn

Hello!

Jane

Welcome to the Rewatch Rewind. 

Quinn 

How exciting to be here! I feel famous. 

Jane 

Yes, you've definitely been mentioned in many previous episodes. 

Quinn 

It's very fun for me as your sibling, having grown up with you and been in the background of a lot of these watches, I'm guessing, to hear some of your takes as as a grown person on on these movies. And just kind of revisiting, you know, it takes me back to a time and place as well hearing you talk about them. So this podcast is personally very fun for me. 

Jane 

Have there been any movies that you hadn’t seen? 

Quinn 

You know none that immediately come to mind. There's definitely movies I didn't watch nearly as much as you did. Like, I think there's a couple movies that I've heard your, your… you explaining on the podcast, your affinity for them is kind of the first time I've heard, like, your insights, and like all the, the nuances that you notice about each of the movies. But no, I'm pretty sure I've been familiar with all of the movies that you've talked about. Like Adam's Rib, like I maybe never watched it all the way from start to finish, but I've certainly seen the “like a sound part” and the the highlight parts of the movie that you noted in the podcast. 

Jane 

Yeah, cause I think Rosemary's told me there's a couple that she was not sure that she'd seen. 

Quinn 

OK, it was news to me that everyone hated Bringing up Baby. I think I probably did at some point know that, and then just like forgot overtime but…

Jane 

Yeah, I feel like the rest of the family would never watch it with us.

Quinn 

Well, no and I didn't… I I completely didn't realize that that I… it always stuck out to me as one of my favorite movies of that time and era, and I don't think that I was ever old enough when I watched it to really question the like logistics of it, or like the premise. So, but I always loved Bringing up Baby. I thought it was funny. And I think that it's funny that people were so irritated with Katharine Hepburn because I think she's hilarious in the whole thing. 

Jane 

Yeah, yeah, so I did remember, like I almost was like, oh, yeah, everyone I know hates this movie, I was like, oh no, Quinn likes this movie! 

Quinn 

Well, I'm glad to get the shout out. I really didn't realize it was a controversial stance that I had. 

Jane 

Yes, well, I know a lot of like old movie fans that I've met online were telling me, like, “Oh yeah, I love Bringing up Baby!” So it's not just us, but... 

Quinn 

Yeah, definitely. You talked about its reputation as being kind of like a standout screwball comedy. I think that definitely makes sense. I think that it doesn't get screwier than Bringing Up Baby.

Jane 

Yeah, it is, it is THE screwball comedy. Yeah, so as far as the movie we're talking about today though, I think…

Quinn 

Made many decades later. 

Jane 

Yes! I think that that's one that we definitely fell in love with together, that like a lot of the movies I've talked about so far are like specific to me watching and then you would kind of watch them with me. But I think with Ella Enchanted, we watched it together and grew to love it together, so that's why I wanted to have you on for this episode. 

Quinn 

Well, yeah, I definitely think that like looking at your list and like thinking about like oh what are some of the reasons why they ended up here? Like Ella Enchanted, I feel responsible for in ways that I might not feel responsible for other movies on this list. 

Jane 

Yes. Well, I think what's important for our listeners to understand is that when you were younger, like you're quite a bit younger than me. And when you were little, you really liked to, like, pick a movie and watch it a bunch, like, really close together. Is that fair? 

Quinn 

Oh yes, I had phase movies for sure. Like it was, I can think of particular movies that I would watch all the time and I could never tell you the reason why I stopped watching any of these movies. But there would be a period of time that I would just get really hot with a certain movie and that would be all I wanted to watch and then… I guess I would just get over it. 

Jane 

And I think that Ella Enchanted is the only one of those that has made it onto my list. 

Quinn 

Yes, I would say that's fair. And I, Ella Enchanted was for sure one of those movies, and I would actually say one of the things I for sure wanted to talk about today was the soundtrack for Ella Enchanted, I would say is has been a pillar of my music appreciation over the years and like that soundtrack is actually very good…

Jane 

It's very good. 

Quinn

…and I think introduced me to a lot of like older songs like classic songs that I otherwise wouldn't have known that I think was important in my developing a music taste as well. 

Jane 

Yeah, yeah. There's definitely a lot of covers of really famous songs. It's kind of weird that they chose to go that direction with, like, this fairy tale story like that they did more like rock songs. But it works really well. It was just kind of an odd choice when you, like, read the book, you don't necessarily think like, oh, this would be perfect to have like a Queen song. 

Quinn 

Well, yeah. And I was actually thinking about, you had mentioned fans of the book Ella Enchanted that the movie is adapted from tend to be pretty disappointed with this adaptation. And I agree that it's a pretty poor representation of the book, and I guess I've sort of reimagined the movie as more just like another like retelling of Cinderella and, and I guess, like kind of with Ella Enchanted flavor to it. Like there's a lot of the plot points that like kind of the core characterizations of some of the characters are borrowed from Ella Enchanted. But yeah, I mean, I think there's so many adaptations of fairy tales out there, and like I think that it's a very fun and ultimately like kind of visionary choice that they went with like sort of this like 70's rock theme for the soundtrack that sort of like didn't really have any other connection to the story, but just those were the songs that they went with. And I do know that like specifically with Somebody to Love, which I think is kind of the key musical moment in the movie that was really sort of driven from like, I guess Tommy O'Haver was working with Anne Hathaway on some kind of like more traditional, like folksy fairy tale song. And it didn't suit her voice as well as Somebody to Love. So I feel like it was also very driven by like who were the people making the movie and what their tastes were, which is, I also think probably why it works because it was driven from an organic place. 

Jane 

Yeah definitely. And I think that casting Anne Hathaway and then like using her, because like, at that point, she was mostly known for Princess Diaries, which I guess she still is known for Princess Diaries, but, like, kind of taking that sort of flavor of princess of, like, I guess it's not really like a modern story, Ella Enchanted, because it's sort of set in this…made-up fairy tale-ish place, but like definitely has, like modern sensibilities that I think that like putting… I mean, Anne Hathaway has also done period work that's been good. I mean, she won an Oscar, but like, I think that taking her like personality and more modern sensibilities and putting it into this fairy tale thing worked really well. And I think that if they had tried too hard, like again, like, recognizing that that song didn't fit her voice and tried too hard to push her in a different direction. I don't think the movie would have worked.

Quinn 

Oh yes, Anne Hathaway is very much allowed to be Anne Hathaway in this movie and it's fantastic. I think one of my biggest takeaways from this movie in watching it relatively recently in preparation for this conversation was just how essential I feel it is in the Anne Hathaway story. Because, I mean, you see her, I think debuting in a lot of people's eyes, I think she was in a movie or two before Princess Diaries. Or was that her debut? 

Jane 

I think it might have been her debut. 

Quinn 

And I feel like you have definitely a star is born moment with Princess Diaries and she really I think emerged as someone to watch and as a a star that could like hold their own with Julie Andrews and and sort of have this kind of fun, relatable charm. Like I do see sort of like the Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrences that come after really sort of taking something from the Anne Hathaway School of being a young it girl actress. And I feel like it was Ella Enchanted that really I think the singing particularly introduced this new layer to her talent, you know, circle and now all of a sudden, Anne Hathaway can be in musicals and she's very good at singing. And I just think that it was a very important stepping stone to her becoming a superstar. And I mean, she won the Oscar for a musical. So I think you know I can see, you know, maybe she would have ended up in Les Mis regardless of Ella Enchanted, but I do think this movie really put her on the map. And it's funny because I don't think it's a like particularly well regarded movie in any sort of circles, but I have to think that it had some really important impacts on Anne Hathaway's career following. 

Jane 

Oh yeah, definitely. So had you read the book before seeing the movie, do you remember? 

Quinn 

I actually I don't remember, but if I had to guess, I would say I saw the movie first, and I think you knew the book and so were able to like give some context when I would see it early. And then I did eventually read the book and like it. It has been a long time since I've read the book though, so I cannot really recall what is different about the movie in the books now. 

Jane 

Yeah, I haven't read the book in a long time. I had read the book definitely before I saw the movie, and it was kind of like, I feel like the book was different than this. But like the, I mean the basic premise is the same, but it's different to the point that I, like you said, I kind of consider them two different things, and I can definitely see why fans of the book would think that the movie was a bad adaptation, but at the same time it's like, it's fun. They did their own thing with it and…

Quinn 

Well, and Ella Enchanted is an adaptation too, which I think it for me is what makes it work. 

Jane 

Right. 

Quinn 

And like I have been thinking in a lot of like media that I've seen recently with elements of the Cinderella story in it of like, what are some of the things I like about each retelling? And like I I texted you out of the blue when I was watching Into the Wood randomly and I was like, I think the Cinderella in Into the Woods is my favorite all time Cinderella. So like I did also, when I watched it recently was kind of thinking about like what are my favorite interpretations of the Cinderella story like in Ella Enchanted and what are some of the things that I think work better in other retellings? It's a story that is just very familiar at this point. 

Jane 

Yeah, it's been told and retold time and time again, and I I know you haven't listened to the Enchanted episode yet, but we talked about Cinderella quite a bit in that episode, too, because it's sort of like the fairy tale. And I think it's so interesting in Ella Enchanted that they added this layer of her being cursed. And it's not just that she has a really mean stepmother and step sisters. But it's like, literally they could order her not to leave and she would not be able to leave. 

Quinn 

Yeah, the curse is awful. And I do think Cinderella in all tellings of the story is someone who is abused,

Jane 

Right. 

Quinn 

and I think that that is a very important  facet of the story, and I think you and I've talked a lot about how there's a lot of like dismissal of Cinderella as a character in many iterations of just like being this damsel, like this bad representation of, you know, femininity and you know, just waiting around for a man. But I think that the curse really illuminates just some of the cruelty that I think Cinderella in all versions of the story experiences. But it's they almost don't really emphasize the chores, and like the the working and the cinder part of Cinderella, and they even dropped that from her name. It's it's less about the labor that she's expected to do and more just that this curse really defines all aspects of her life and turns even people that are trying to help her against her. And yeah, it's a terrible, terrible curse. And I think that it's a very lighthearted movie, but it's very dark what she has to go through. 

Jane 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that it also… they do a good job of showing her sort of fighting the curse. And again, like you said, there's this perception that Cinderella is sort of a weaker, more passive character, but she really has always been, you know, very strong in being able to break away from her horrible situation. And I think they show Ella really doing everything she can to fight the curse and be like, OK, I'm gonna do what you told me, but I'm gonna do like, my own version of it. Like I'm gonna try and find loopholes in these orders so that I don't have to actually be under your thumb. And yeah, I I just, I think that's very well done. 

Quinn 

From a narrative perspective, it's a really powerful way to empower the character of of Ella and make her, I think, have people see more of themselves in her too, by giving her something to really fight against and be subversive against. And I think that that, I mean, it drives the plot of the movie. It's it's a good a good narrative tool. 

Jane 

Yeah and then there's the whole thing about that she's trying to fight for the rights of like elves and giants and other types of mystical beings who have been subjugated by the government. And I think that there's a little bit of an element of like sort of a savior complex in some of what she does, but I think that ultimately she feels a kinship with these people that are being forced to do things against their will because she's literally being forced to do things against her will all the time when people tell her to do stuff, she has to do it. And I think that that gives her a lot of empathy for, like giants being forced to do farm labor, and elves being forced to sing and dance. And I think they do a good job of showing that in the story. That like she feels like she kind of understands some of what they're going through and that's part of why she feels so strongly about trying to help them. 

Quinn 

Yeah, yeah, I think that it's also, I would love to see sort of the same premise of this story exist now and kind of retold now that we know a little bit more about how to be maybe a better ally or to sort of be a little bit more inclusive and less performative. Because I do think you know, in watching it recently, there were some things Ella said and did that I was like, ooh I don't know about that as you know, good activism. Like thinking specifically about how, when her and Prince Char returned to Lamia, which is where the palace is, you know where the Prince is there. He clearly has some kind of status and they're with an elf companion, their elf friend Slannen, and like they just he gets thrown out of the the palace and they stand there and don't seem to like, do anything to try to stop it. It's like, OK, well, we need to, like, act upon our convictions. So yeah, there's little things like that. And also like when Slannen the elf is trying to talk to Prince Charmont about working with his uncle to maybe allow elves to have other careers than being performers or entertainers cause he wants to be a lawyer and he's saying, “Well, can you petition your uncle the literal king for me to be a lawyer?” And he's just like, “I can't do that! That would be weird. It simply isn't done!” And so those are the types of things where the movie does let me down a little bit because I want to see, you know, some real advocacy and allyship. But I do think that you make such a good point about Ella feeling a kindred spirit to these marginalized peoples and really having that empathy and speaking up and saying something. I think that that is very clear throughout the movie and that is what allows her to be successful ultimately, is these relationships that she's built that she has built through empathy and through, you know, walking in people's shoes and hearing their stories and listening to them. So I think that there is a really beautiful message of of caring for the marginalized and advocating throughout the movie. 

Jane 

Yeah and I do think that there's they show that Prince Char, at least they show him as very like privileged and ignorant initially and that he, like again, he definitely could do more, but I'm thinking about like the scene when he listens to the giant leader and like, he's actually like, oh, wow, I didn't realize how bad things were. I'm going to try and make things better, and again, I don't know what he actually does, but he does become king, presumably at the end after his uncle dies. So hopefully he does…. 

Quinn 

He does sing Elton John. That we do know. 

Jane 

Yes, so I mean obviously there's only one step between sing Elton John and free the marginalized people, so… 

Quinn 

He's on the right path. 

Jane 

Yeah, yes. So again, yes, you're right, it definitely could do more, but I also think that they have some good points. There's some almost there moments, I think. 

Quinn 

Oh yeah, and in in thinking about the times, like, I think that those some of those interactions and conversations were like stepping stones to, I think more fruitful ways to interact in those spaces and in those conversations, but it definitely, you know I I think that's a very presentist mindset to even look at some of those conversations critically, because you know, at that time those were conversations that were the most tolerant things got. So, you know, it's definitely have to make allowances for differences in in time. And I do have to say, I think talking about Prince Charmont as a character, I think he is one of the better, more developed Prince characters that you get in one of these Ella Enchanted Cinderella retellings, and I think Hugh Dancy really played like, I think, all of the acting in this movie is really phenomenal. I think that's a headline for me is that it's a very well acted movie, even though it's probably objectively pretty bad. 

Jane 

The script left something to be desired, but the actors did the best they could with it. 

Quinn 

Well, yeah, OK, let's just dive into it because I think that there is no better argument for “there are no small parts” than this movie because every single one of the actors in this movie like nails - and I don't mean like this in a casual like - nails their role. Like every performance I can think of, like one of my favorites to just like think about is Minnie Driver and like as Mandy who is like the fairy kind of governess of Ella and like she's not a very powerful fairy, so she's not that helpful in terms of her magical skill abilities, but like, she's kind of an ally to Ella in her abusive home and like, plays a role throughout the story. Very minimal and like the character of Mandy, I think I remember being pretty important in the Ella Enchanted book, and like they really, I think the writers really stripped this character of, like any kind of, like, notable personality. But Minnie Driver was just like, “Nuh-uh! Not my part!” And she just like, finds these like perfect comedic moments, and it's like she has like one line in a scene, and just like is so in character the whole time and is just like hysterical., completely matches like the attitude of just being like a little, like, sassy, and over it. And I'm like, that's just like one of the very bit parts. Like you've got like the the, I don't remember her name, but the actress who plays Olive, who's just like deranged and like all the, like, kleptomaniac stuff. And she's just like, “Ooh hoo hoo!” like, the whole time completely in character. Joanna Lumley is there, like, serving evil stepmother. Like she is not letting a moment go by without just like commanding the scene. Vivica A. Fox like comes in and does her like flashy, sassy little, like unhelpful cutaway scenes that are, like, again, all of these roles are pretty insignificant, don't have a lot of screen time, don't have much to work with, terrible script and like these actresses are just like, “This is the best role I've ever played in my life!” It's so much fun. It's like you talked a couple of podcasts ago about your favorite movies to watch being like ones where the actors are clearly having a good time. And like, I just feel like, you know, Anne Hathaway gives a fantastic performance and is committed and plays all the emotional highs and lows. She has the most terrible lines to say and she just like, gets through it like a professional. Hugh Dancy is like also having a good time, and it's like appropriately, like, kind of like charming and aloof. And like Slannen is memorable. Like he's got that, like, you know, conviction. And he has some very, like, silly, like, physical comedy moments as well. And then you've got like Jim, who's on Downton Abbey? Like playing this like ogre, who like has these dramatic cutaways while he's trying to eat people like just great performances all around.

Jane 

Yeah, I agree. I think that you're right. That is a big part of why I enjoy this movie is that it's very apparent that everybody was just having fun. And you get that, especially with the big dance number at the end, which is just kind of random and like, why are they singing Don't Go Breaking My Heart at a wedding? Like…

Quinn 

Ohh my gosh, it's so. It's fun though.

Jane 

It's just, yes. 

Quinn 

Like I I've never questioned… Like it's a weird song choice, but I'm just, that is one of the most joyful, perfect finales to a movie that I've ever seen, like where everyone gets a little bit of something to do. You like, get that fun, like end credits. Here's everyone's final bow, and it's just like a ton of fun. 

Jane 

Yeah, it's just unfortunate that Lucy Punch. Is that her name? 

Quinn 

Oh yes. 

Jane 

She doesn't get to be in it because- 

Quinn 

Well, and I just realized I didn't mention her performance, but I feel like it deserves its own subsection. So Lucy Punch, who plays Hattie, the step sister of Ella, the mean stepsister, I…. that is my all time favorite interpretation of the evil stepsister character, because Hattie is just like, very impetuous, but she is dangerous and she, like, serves a role in the story that actually, you know, like her ratting out Ella is what leads to some of the highest stakes in the story eventually, s I do feel like so often the step sisters are really just like bit characters that don't really have much to do other than like be mean to Cinderella in like one or two scenes. And I feel like she both took that sort of like superfluous, frivolous quality that the step sisters have and like, did that, but also, like, they did find a way to work her way into the plot. She had a bit of menace and a bit of intelligence that she was able to use to try to achieve her own goals. And then I think has a great, like, humiliating downfall. And this is made all the better by the fact that Lucy Punch is like this was her dream role to play a step sister. And be this character and like she is a step sister in Into the Woods and in something else, I'm pretty sure. 

Jane 

I feel like she's played Cinderella's step sister at least four times. 

Quinn 

Yes. And like that was her dream role and this actress is just like having the best time being this character. Like it totally shows and I think that Hattie is like a standout character and performance throughout the entire thing as well. And it is a shame that she is not in the finale, but it's because of a deleted scene. And you can see the deleted scene if you get the DVD. 

Jane 

Yes, which I think is a good way to transition into why we have seen this movie so many times because yes, it is fun. And yes, we would watch it a bunch probably normally anyway, but the reason that we have watched it quite this many times is because we had the DVD and we discovered how delightful the audio commentary is. And I didn't keep track of how many times I watched it with or without commentary. But I would say that more than half of the times I watched it were with commentary. 

Quinn 

Yes, I mean, I think it became… you could have almost kept track of this movie two different ways, like watching it in its original form and watching it with commentary, because I think you we went to either at different times when we were looking for different things in a viewing experience. 

Jane 

Yeah, but I would, I think that…that even if I counted them separately, the commentary watching would be enough to be in my Top 40. 

Quinn 

You know, I I was gonna say I Jane mentioned this episode. You mentioned it to me. And I kept thinking you were going to schedule it and schedule it. And I'm like, wow, Ella Enchanted really made it far up this list because it's been several weeks now. It's pretty deep in the ranking. 

Jane 

Yeah, it's #20 so it's in the top half. 

Quinn 

Yeah. Top half. I'm stunned. 

Jane 

Yes, but yeah, so I don't remember how many times I'd seen it just normally before we discovered the commentary. But the commentary is just… it just adds a whole other level and like one of the things that you said earlier that made me think of it was when you were talking about Vivica A Fox being fabulous. And like, Anne Hathaway mentions in the commentary the scene when she's tied up to a tree and Lucinda shows up and she's like, oh, I'm going to help rescue you. And she's like, no, I want to be chained to this tree so I don't have to kill Char. And in the commentary, Anne Hathaway says that, like Vivica A Fox was so excited to do that scene. And she, Anne, was kind of like, “I don't know. I don't really like the lines” and Vivica’s like, “Oh, I'm not gonna say the lines. But we're gonna have fun!”

Quinn 

Yes, one of an Ella Enchanted moment that I think about probably most of any other, although there's so many, is like right after she sets her free, Vivica A. Fox, is just standing in this, like, fabulous pose and she's like, “Well, aren't I fabulous?” while Ella is just like, “This is terrible! This is not what I wanted!” It's just like a fabulous moment of just, like, completely not taking in any of your surroundings. You're the main character, the story is you, forget about everybody else, forget whose movie it. It's, it's Vivica A Fox. It's just, it's fabulous. But yes, the commentary which it features, Anne Hathaway and Hugh Dancy. So the two romantic leads of the movie and Tommy O’Haver, who is the director, he's like maybe the one you don't know, but if you don't know him you should. They just narrate the whole movie and it is absolutely hysterical, like the tone that these three have together is great. It's as if they're the best friends. They probably haven't spoken to each other in a decade now, which makes me sad because in my mind they hang out every day and commentate on things. Like they just have great chemistry. You can tell all three of them had a lot of fun making the movie and they're just like having a good time, and you can really you feel like you were there with them, like making this ridiculous movie that really wasn't that good, but damn it, they worked hard. 

Jane 

Yeah and it's like it's exactly what you would want from audio commentary, I think, which is like behind the scenes trivia because they have quite a bit of that. And then just like some like tea, like a little bit, not a lot of tea, but just like sort of like, oh, this didn't work very well or like, I was actually really miserable this day or something like that.

Quinn 

Well, they talk about like, little like spats they had with each other, but it's like, “Oh yeah, we got in a fight about that that day. I felt very this way” like it's it's all like it clearly happened like over a year ago. 

Jane 

Yeah, so there's that. But then just also like. Each one of them has a different thing that they kind of focus on more, which is nice that like they're not just kind of saying the same thing because like Hugh Dancy talks a lot about, like the stunt people. And like he was friends with them. And then Anne Hathaway- This is another thing, too, is like the commentary, like, really shows you how and how Anne Hathaway was like, set up to be super successful in Hollywood because she, like, remembers everybody's name, everybody who worked on this, like even like all the like, minor crew people and she's just like, yeah, this person did a great job and she, like, seems very like gracious. And like she actually cares, but is also very good at networking. And I think that that's exactly what you have to be to be like successful and someone that people like. 

Quinn 

Well, and you really get a sense of Anne Hathaway's work ethic, too. 

Jane 

Oh yeah. 

Quinn 

Which I think very much it comes through in the commentary where you just, like, get a sense of, like, all the things that she's thinking about. You hear a lot of the things that she's insecure about, and just like all of the the dynamics of being the Anne Hathaway of of this movie, being a movie star, being the the center of attention, both like in the internal world of the movie and in the external world of making the movie and in the even more external world of like marketing the movie and being the star.

Jane

Right.

Quinn

Like it's a very actually like I think nuanced character study of Anne Hathaway listening to the commentary while being very fun. 

Jane 

Yeah, yeah. And it's just like she never comes across as like, “Yes, I'm the star and I'm super famous and everyone should love me!” It's kind of like, “Yes, I'm putting in the work and I like really thought about this character and I really wanted to do a good job in this movie and I think everyone else worked really hard on it too.” And like definitely giving credit where credit is due and not really being super like... I mean obviously she talks about her own experiences, but not being super self-centered and like like everyone should be talking about me right now. 

Quinn 

And I think all three of the commentators really had that posture because Anne Hathaway does a great job of like mentioning like the lighting in this scene is beautiful and done by this person, that tailor was a tailor who works in Ireland. But I also think that like Hugh Dancy talks a lot about the stuntmen and like it's clear that he was like, legitimately really good friends with them, like during filming and would hang out with them. And like I think Tommy O’Haver also really like spotlights you know, actors and other people that worked on the movie. Like, I think you listen to it and it's like not like just them listing the credits, but it's like interesting seeing all of the different people that they each had to work with and spent time with. And like, how interesting it is just to put all these different people with all these different specialties in the same project together and just like stunt men interacting with movie stars and interacting with directors, interacting with lighting designers, interacting with other actors, it's all just very interesting to hear about the interactions that went into making the movie. 

Jane 

Yeah, it really highlights which I think I mean is probably true of pretty much every movie is that, like, just how interactive making a movie is, and just like what a collaborative effort it is. And it's not just like, oh, there's a few people involved and then there's, like, the background people that kind of help a little bit. It's like everybody really has to work together and like that's probably obvious to people who have made movies before. But I think when you're in the audience, you might not necessarily realize, I mean you see the long credits at the end, but just like how many people are involved in bringing this together and just how much they have to work together and trust each other to do their jobs. And I think that the Ella Enchanted commentary was kind of one of my first glimpses into just exactly what that looked like. And I think that that's part of what has like led me to be further interested in like, I'm not saying like I'm a filmmaker, but just sort of finding out a little bit more of the behind the scenes filmmaker stuff was really interesting to me without it feeling like, OK, now you're sitting down to a Filmmaking 101 class it it's all very fun the way they present it, but just like it gets you thinking of like, wow, there's so many people who work on movies that you never see who are really crucial to the process, and I really like that aspect of it and that they're definitely sure to give people as much credit as they can and not like you said, not listing the credits, just saying like, oh, this scene was really this person, like, really made it by doing their job kind of thing. And yeah, I really like that.

Quinn 

Yeah, and I think lots of DVD features have commentary on them, and so we've talked a lot about this commentary and it kind of leads to the question like what do you get from this commentary that like maybe you don't get in other movies with commentary? Cause I can't imagine there's another one on your list that like truly, you couldn't think of without the commentary which Ella Enchanted, I mean, it's inextricable from why you've watched this movie so many times. You wouldn't have watched this movie so many times without this commentary. I think it has all of these great things we've been talking about how deep it is, but it's also very funny.

Jane

Yes.

Quinn

And I feel like, you know, we quote and we've Mandela effected quotes from this commentary where like they don't actually say what we have ended up quoting years later, but like we quote this commentary so much to each other. Like probably the most quotable moment is like there's a point where Ella is supposed to in the movie like end up stopped in the middle of the road and there's like a horse drawn carriage that’s going to come and roll her over and she can't move because she's been ordered to stay because the Prince is going back to get the purse that she was carrying with her. And like they just describe how the line was originally, “MY SATCHEL!!!” when she realizes that she doesn't have it, and then the Prince is like, “Wait right there. I'll go get it.” And they're like, we had to cut that because we couldn't say it without laughing and they were like, then we I think we said, well, where's my satchel? We changed mine to where's my satchel and we still couldn't do it. S then in the movie is like, “Where's my purse?” is what she ends up saying. But like the “MY SATCHEL!” quote like, it's just the whole commentary is stuff like that. My other one of my other favorites, I can't even say things are above the other because it's all amazing. It's like, I guess all the sets had these different like almonds for Prince Char? 

Jane 

Yeah, all the, the castle sets had these dishes of candied almonds. 

Quinn 

Yeah, and it was just like this weird character study. And they're like, we want everyone in the Kingdom to enjoy my almonds! Like that Prince Char has his, like, favorite almonds. It's like this random detail that, like, you never would notice. There's just so many quotable moments, and like by all of them, all three of them really have great, hysterical little one liners. 

Jane 

Yeah, I was struggling to come up with a quote to use at the end of last episode because I was like all the good quotes are in the commentary. Yeah, cause the my satchel thing in particular, I feel like, I can't hear the word satchel without thinking of that, and sometimes I just think of it randomly. Just like “MY SATCHEL!!!”

Quinn 

Yeah and I also think one of the things that we have not yet talked about that I think the commentary does a good job of highlighting too, is that I love the costuming for that movie. I think that the costuming is perfect and they do a great job of talking about the different costumes, and you notice that characters have like signature colors, which I'm always, I don't know. I always really like that in movies when characters have signature colors. I think it's fun. And I I like that what that does visually is kind of like builds like a recognition for a certain character and seeing what color they're wearing, but like, I think it's cool. Like the characters have signature colors. I think the costumes are beautiful and well done, and the commentary does a good job of pointing out when that's the case. I think that Ella Enchanted is such a weird world and like you hear about all the different weird ways that this weird world was created together. But I do think it works surprisingly well like all told. You know, having these like kind of 70s-80s musical influences with kind of this like modern sensibility and the humor with like, costume, that kind of blended old and new with the signature colors, like something whimsical that pops like it all kind of like doesn't make sense in a way that makes sense. 

Jane 

Yeah, I think that the world is kind of similar to the world of Shrek in a way? Like, I think Shrek has a lot of those like… it's like sort of a medieval world, but also there's a lot of modern jokes. And I think that Hercules kind of does that too, of like being like set in the past, but also with these very modern jokes. And I think that was just like a really big thing in like the late 90s/early 2000s to kind of make that sort of world? And they really ran with it and Ella Enchanted. I think they really just leaned into, like, we're going to make this weird. And yeah, it works so much better than you would think it would on paper, if just like, yeah so it's like kind of medieval castle fairy tale but also modern, but also like from a few decades ago, and we're just going to throw all those things together. And yeah, it just really works. And I do agree that the costuming really helps with that because the costumes are, like sort of whimsical, but also like very focused on like the characters and like Ella’s are a lot more practical than like the step-sisters have, like the most ridiculous costumes, especially at the end. 

Quinn 

Shout out to Hattie’s ring in the ball scene. 

Jane 

It is like…her ring is like as big as her hand.

Quinn 

It is so ridiculous and so it's just perfect. 

Jane 

Giant orange. 

Quinn 

And I mean, I love the the fairies, like, especially like Lucinda, like has a very, I would say modern, like it's a very costumey, like think like, sexy fairy at Halloween outfit, but it's like Nope, it works. Let's go for it. And I think also having Heidi Klum in the movie helps with its fashion appeal. 

Jane 

Oh yeah. 

Quinn 

Heidi Klum is a giant. 

Jane 

I wonder if they consulted her, if like, she was a costume consultant too. 

Quinn 

I also have to say that we have not talked at all about Cary Elwes yet.

Jane

Oh yeah! Quinn

And I love his performance, talking about performances, he is clearly having a marvelous time. And I also love kind of the meta connection to Princess Bride because I do also think that there are some elements of, like it's like almost like a more modern frenetic world than Princess Bride is, but there's like, I think they serve as like similar kinds of movies, at least on paper. 

Jane 

Yeah, it does have kind of a similar tone to that. It doesn't have nearly as witty of dialogue as Princess Bride, but it definitely has like, a similar like world feel. Yeah, I definitely see what you’re saying. 

Quinn 

Like you could imagine, some of the characters interacting, so I think it's very… there's a fun parallel that like he's sort of in the story as more the Humperdinck character than, you know, being the romantic lead ultimately that he is in Princess Bride. 

Jane 

And he he was like just… He's so good, like, especially because like, as his character progresses. Like earlier in the movie, he's just sort of, like, vaguely menacing. And by the end, he's, like, completely like… maniacal laughing, just like going completely overboard with, like, I've just completely lost my mind! And he does that so well, like- 

Quinn 

And that's you can tell that's a choice that he made as an actor because you could have very easily played all of that very flat and probably not gotten the effect like you get that from his performance is what really gives you that story. 

Jane 

Yes. Oh my gosh I love the scene when he, after Hattie, has told him that Ella has to do whatever she's told, and he's, like, making her do the hokey pokey and all this stuff. But he's doing the most ridiculous dance in the background and it's like you're trying to make her look silly, but you look way sillier and it's so good. 

Quinn 

Yeah, like just the the gleeful evil of of it all. Yeah, it's it's really, it's fantastic acting. I'm telling- like, up, up, down, anywhere you look in this movie: well acted. 

Jane 

Yeah, 100% of the time. And then he has a snake sidekick. Which is very like reminiscent of a lot of Disney villains - which is part of why I always think this movie is Disney, but it's not Disney - but I think that they did a really good job with that snake. I guess originally they were going to have like an animatronic puppet and they just couldn't get it to work so they ended up-

Quinn 

Can you imagine how silly that would have looked? Like, I think them talking about their pathway to arriving at the conclusion that this snake had to be CGI is very funny in the commentary. 

Jane 

Yes, yes. Because it's like, um yeah, no, that wouldn't have worked. So they ended up with a CGI snake. And I think it looks good. 

Quinn 

It's very well done. It's fantastic and I think the the actor, I mean it's mostly a voice performance, but the acting is very good with Heston as well. 

Jane 

Yeah! Yeah , so I think that and that really adds to carry out was his character. What is his name? Edgar?

Quinn 

Edgar, who is the evil uncle. Sorry if we haven't said that. Yes, he is the king, who is the uncle of Prince Charmont, who is Hugh Dancy.

Jane 

And I think like the uncle killed the father? 

Quinn 

Yes. 

Jane 

It's like a little, little Hamlet moment. 

Quinn 

It’s kind of – a criticism: It's kind of thrown together. It's like, OK, I guess he killed the father. Like I want to see him killing the father. I wanna see the blood on his hands! 

Jane 

And then he's trying to kill Char also, I'm not exactly sure why… 

Quinn 

It's kind of Lion King action like… 

Jane 

Because Char was going to be coronated. Yes!

Quinn 

So I guess he was like kind of a Regent ruler because the dad had been killed and and the dad was much more, the king was much more tolerant of other life groups like ogres and elves, and then Edgar becoming the king, he made a lot of these like species segregationist policies so...

Jane

Yeah

Quinn

It's presumed that with Ella next to the throne and with Char being a much more morally upright person that with Edgar's passing and his coronation, things went right in Frell or Lamia or whatever the kingdom's name is, because Ella’s from Frell and Lamias where the castle is. I don't know what the whole common is called. Andalasia. 

Jane 

[laughs] Probably. It's also really interesting how they decided that, like the people from Lamia would have English accents, and the people from Frell would have American accents, and then they cast like mainly American people to be the Lamia people and mainly British people to be the Frell people. 

Quinn 

It was chaotic what was going on with the accents. 

Jane 

Yeah so people had to do different accents. I mean not entirely, cause like Hugh Dancy is actually English and had his normal accent. Anne Hathaway had her normal accent, but like, just like Minnie Driver had to do an American accent. 

Quinn 

And that one notable fairy who has that bit part does like a New York accent in in Lamia, but she was like Irish. 

Jane 

Yeah, well, yeah. And the person who plays Ella's mom was actually British or Irish or something, and…

Quinn 

[New York accent] Finding her would be something terrible.

Jane

[laughs] Yeah.

Quinn 

So many good lines! 

Jane 

There's some, there's some very strange accents going on, but it's fine. It works. 

Quinn 

Also Parminder Nagra is there.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Quinn

And she is honestly not one of the more memorable performances, but she does a really good job! 

Jane 

It's really upsetting, like, that's like one criticism that I have: I would really like to have seen another scene with Parminder Nagra's character at the end like… 

Quinn 

It's really stuck in there, like the resolution of that storyline with like like it- you can tell they like there was probably some scheduling problem of like her filming ER or something because like, it is weird. Like Areida is Ella's best friend. And and like they set up their characters and Ella actually like, really like screws her over because of the curse. 

Jane 

Yeah, it's a heartbreaking scene. 

Quinn 

It's a really sad scene and then I think that for whatever reason, they couldn't film any better resolution to that story other than like she just comes to the wedding and like, there's a cutaway scene where she's waving to the carriage and just goes, “Good luck, Ella!” 

Jane 

And you know she was waving at nothing. 

Quinn 

And yeah, like, there's no way those women were in the same room when that happened. 

Jane 

Yeah, I mean, she is in the room at the wedding, like with her, and they cause she's part of the Don't Go Breaking My Heart 

Quinn 

Yeah, but like I that could have been filmed in post too, that cutaway shot. 

Jane 

That is true. Um, yeah so I think they really needed a scene where Ella explained what had happened. 

Quinn 

And like you assume that they were, you know, they healed the friendship, and they were in a good place. But like, they never said that. 

Jane 

Yeah, it's like, I mean, I get that they put that in there to show just like how bad, because that kind of was what pushed Ella over the edge of like, I guess I just have to live with this curse to being like, no, I need to get rid of this because her stepmother made her tell her best friend, like, “I could never be friends with you, and you suck, go away” basically. 

Quinn 

And yeah, I really, I think if it was a better script or like a better story, like the movie version, I don't really remember like how it happened in the book, but for the movie world that was created, I think involving Areida in some of the machinations at the end to, like take down Edgar would have, really fixed a lot of the, like narrative hole that is left with that storyline, like just to have Areida like give her some marginal role even where like she's for some reason there and can like help them do one thing like in the sequence to take down Edgar. Like just plug her in somewhere. And I think that would have been really nice to like have like her helping the cause and like reestablishing their relationship and then like then maybe you don't really need a final scene between them. You can just kind of use what you have at the end and be like, yeah, they figured it out. 

Jane 

Yeah, I agree that definitely would have been a really good way to do it, but… 

Quinn 

I mean, they have Heidi Klum in the end part like... 

Jane 

Yeah, yeah. Because she and Slannen have a thing. 

Quinn 

Yeah, they get together, which is there's a lot of questions I have, but it's fine. 

Jane 

Yeah, but I think that that's really, I mean, no offense to the writers, but I think there were like 5 writers on this movie, and like I don't know that they had a cohesive idea of what they were going to do with it. I think it was kind of like, OK, there's this really popular book and this really popular actress that we can write a thing for. 

Quinn 

And doing movies like this is very popular. 

Jane 

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, this is the time to do this sort of modernized but not fairy tale type thing. And we're just going to throw it together and hope for the best. And I think that it does work a lot better than it had any right to on paper, based on the dialogue and the script. And they talk about that a little bit in the commentary. They're like, very gracious about it, but there's certain moments where they're like, “Yeah, I never really liked this line,” or, like, “I never really felt like I said this right.” 

Quinn 

I think they're pretty upfront with saying the lines that they had issues with saying. 

Jane 

Yeah, but they're not, they're not gonna, say like, “Oh this whole script was trash.” 

Quinn 

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, in fairness, there's a couple funny, like “My tongue itches” is funny. 

Jane 

That is true. Yeah, there's some good lines in the actual script, but I think overall that's really the weak point. And just like the fact that they were able to get these amazing actors and some of them are like super famous, others I like, haven't really seen in anything else. 

Quinn 

Eric Idle is in the movie also. 

Jane 

Oh, I forgot about him! 

Quinn 

See, like you just keep thinking of people. There's a lot of performances. 

Jane 

And I think that they all just showed up and were like, “We're gonna have fun. We're gonna make this movie.” And it just really comes together in a very entertaining way. 

Quinn 

I do think also what helps is that the characters they're playing are all kind of archetypes. What talented actors are able to do, they're able to take these archetypal characters and sort of have an interpretation of them kind of ready to go. And so I'm, I'm also kind of thinking like, that's these are just good professional actors that like these are not like tough characters. They're just like they're ones that you can really like sink into and, like, get- they're, they're like, really meaty roles that like a good actor, will know what to do with. 

Jane 

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, that's a good way of putting it. So yeah, so it's just it's just fun entertainment, but again, it just becomes like so much more fun and entertaining when you have the commentary on and you just hear them chatting with each other about their memories of making this movie and the good and the bad and the ugly. 

Quinn 

And if you like podcasts, I imagine you'll like the commentary because it it really does, I think feel like you're just sitting around the table with friends or sitting on the couch watching the movie with, you know, the friends or like people that were making the movie. Like it's a a really good aura that the commentary has. I feel like and again and thinking about like what does the commentary have that other commentaries don't? Like I think a lot of other commentaries are very cold and very like stale almost and like they come in for these very like discrete parts and they'll say, I did want to mention when we were watching this that this blah blah blah. And then they'll stop and they'll go back to the movie. Like, this is just this continual conversation that goes throughout the movie pretty much. 

Jane 

Yeah, I think a lot of times, especially when the commentary just has the director, they can get very technical with like just saying, like explaining how each shot was set up. And just like, I mean some of that is very interesting, but I think it almost feels like you're like going to film school or something or like you're sitting in a lecture and I definitely tend to prefer the ones that have multiple people and especially like, I mean, I don't want to say like we only care about the actors, but I think actors know how to perform better than directors do a lot of the time, and so they know how to be entertaining. I would say Ella Enchanted is like far and away my favorite, but there's a few others, like I talked about the Mary Poppins one. And I think that one is really fun for different reasons, because they're looking back with like 40 years of distance. But it's the same sort of thing of like they're interacting with each other and reminiscing together. And I think that's a lot more interesting than just hearing one person sort of give you a lecture about how this movie came together. 

Quinn 

Well, yeah, and what the actors do, and I mean that's what they are when you're watching the movie, they are the audiences perspective, like into the world of the movie and, and so I think that you you feel like, you know, actors in a way that you don't feel like you know directors or people that are not on camera. And so, yeah, I think they're very practiced at bringing that perspective to an audience and sort of serving as that messenger or the gateway that an audience has to a story. And then I think to Tommy O’Haver’s credit. I think he's very charismatic. And so you feel like you know him or you like, get to know him through the course of the commentary. There's many directors whose commentary I've seen that I didn't really get a sense of who they were as people, but I feel like you get to know Tommy O’Haver and you like him. 

Jane 

Yeah, I think that he, like, definitely takes his work seriously, but I think he doesn't think too highly of himself. I think a lot of directors have really big egos, which I think to a certain extent you have to for that job because you have to be in charge and you have to like get people to listen to you and so you have to think relatively highly of yourself. Otherwise you're gonna be like, “Well or- or not or whatever.” And you can't do that when you're a director. But I think that with Tommy O'Haver, he's like, he wants people to have fun on his sets, I think. And he's like, very proud of his work on this movie, clearly. But he's also, like, very gracious to the stars that he's talking to and like, very quick to point out when they did a good job, which I think they're more hesitant to do, like they don't want to toot their own horns as much. And so he's like, very much like, saying, “Wow, you guys were really great to work with and you did such a good job too.” And like that, they were exactly what he wanted for this movie. And I think that really helps make the commentary just seem a lot more fun, too, is that he's not being like, “I made this movie and I was so great.” It was like, “Thank you guys for doing such a good job.” and all of that, so I really like that. 

Quinn 

Yeah, he's he seems like- I would, I would be an actor or, like, work on a movie that he was the director for. I feel like he would be a good person to work with. And yeah, I do, it's interesting that you note that they the actors do I feel like have a hard time like tooting their own horn and like one of the main things that I feel like Anne Hathaway is comfortable like talking about is like her physical appearance. And like, she'll be like, “Oh, my extensions look so good at that point.” And I do feel like that's something that, like you think about, like the Harvey Weinstein of it all and like just a lot of some of the really, like, dark things about Hollywood and like, how sad that is that like, that's what she felt like, you know, those were some of the ways that she could, like, step into her own and, like, talk positively about herself. And then you think about like all other things that were going on like in the industry at large. I also think it's really great to hear like, a man complementing like the female star of the movie, who was like indisputably the star of the movie. And again, another good example of like female led projects like they're this idea that they're not as successful. It’s like here is another like- that's something I love about this movie, that it is a female led movie, that it's like, yeah, Anne Hathaway is perfectly capable of carrying a movie on her own shoulders. 

Jane 

Yeah, and it's interesting too that like the director doesn't at any point that I recall in the commentary. Maybe, he says, like… Because I do think like Anne Hathaway does complement her own appearance, she all is also very critical of it. 

Quinn 

Well, and and that's also true too. I mean just I think that's sort of where I was going, too and tying in like some of the larger cultural things, she is very critical of her appearance at times too. 

Jane 

One of my favorite parts though, is when she's like watching herself perform and she's, like, cringing. And they're like, “What are you..? And she's like, “Oh, it’s just a tooth thing.” 

Quinn 

Well, they're in the middle of complementing the lighting in the scene, and they're just like, “Oh, this lighting is so beautiful” and it is really beautiful. It's like flickering flames that of course, were, like, done digitally, but it looks very real and they're complimenting it and then and and Hathaway just goes, “Eugh!” And then then she's just like, “Sorry, it was a tooth thing.” 

Jane 

Yeah, but I think that what I was gonna say is I don't remember at any point, I don't think he ever really talks about her appearance other than to say, like, “Oh you look fine” when she's criticizing herself. I think that he's way more focused on her work and her her performance and like how dedicated she was and like she was in basically every scene and that she had to work really hard and he really gives her a lot of credit for that. And I think that's, like you were saying, a big problem in Hollywood is that a lot of actresses like you focus more on their appearance and what they're wearing and all this stuff. And I think it’s really great to see a male director recognizing that his female star really put in a lot of work and did a lot of stuff besides, just like looking pretty in this movie. And that's yeah, it's really great to hear that, especially on a movie that was produced by Harvey Weinstein. 

Quinn 

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's very true. And I just, I think. We've already spoken a little bit about this, but like, Anne Hathaway is just such a treasure, I think, like, and it's been very interesting, and like I I mentioned her in the same sentence with like Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Stone earlier in this conversation. And like, just thinking about, like, what Anne Hathaway's trajectory has been, and then what those actresses’ trajectories have been where I think there there was, you know, generally good favor around Anne Hathaway for a long time. And then, like all of a sudden kind of around the time of her Oscar win, people kind of soured on her and felt that she really was sort of distasteful. And then just like having her image kind of come back around from there and now I think she has a very like, you know, people have a lot of, like, nostalgic affection for her being in all these beloved classics like Princess Diaries and Devil Wears Prada and Ella Enchanted. But then she's also, you know, an Oscar winner and like, taken very seriously, like, I think she's kind of reached that, like, you know, prime part of her career where she's been through all of these things. And we've seen actresses like Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence kind of on a delayed timeline, go through some of these same things like, I just think that Anne Hathaway, I really have a lot of respect and appreciation for all of the things that she's weathered. Being a young woman in Hollywood and having to kind of- that she was in these beloved projects. She's had periods of being very well loved, periods of being kind of hated and has sort of weathered the storms and has continued to to work and deliver really phenomenal performances, I just- I think she's such a gift and I'm glad that she's still out there kicking ass and making amazing movies. Like I love Ocean's 8, that's fairly recent, and I think that she still has some very exciting career moves left. I'm- I can't wait to see her as she continues. 

Jane 

Yeah, and I think it's really interesting because she was getting a lot of hate for a while, for like no really good reason. Like, I don't feel like anyone could point to like something horrible that she said or did. Like maybe she like said something that was maybe a little bit questionable, but like, I think now people are coming around to being more like, you know, she was never actually terrible. People were just mad at her for being a successful woman like, cause, I mean, some people like they said something super racist or something or like that was interpreted in a bad way. But I don't even know that anyone's been able to point to something like that. 

Quinn 

I think probably the thing that I heard or that that's been on in the news cycle was the Witches movie that she was in and sort of depicting people with limb differences as like witches and, there was some backlash to the way that the witches were portrayed and how that looked similarly to people with limb differences and sort of othered people with limb differences, or at least this was some criticism of that movie. And I thought that Anne Hathaway had a really, um… I was impressed with the apology that she offered and she made, I thought, a really powerful, well thought out statement that just said, “I didn't really do my homework fully here and this is upsetting because I upset people that I did not want to upset” and it owned the mistake, and just you know, said that she would be more careful moving forward and you know, like, I just think that's something that I appreciate someone that can stand up and apologize when they did something not fully thought out. 

Jane 

Yeah. Well, and I don't remember hearing anything about that, but like the Witches was based on a novel by Raold Dahl, whose prejudices are well known at this point. 

Quinn 

Yeah, so I I think it's… I don't think that Anne Hathaway should be held accountable for like production decisions that were probably outside of her control, but she still did take accountability. And I thought in a way that- I appreciated the thoughtfulness of the statement I ended up reading. 

Jane 

Yeah, I think that she's always been very good about responding to things which, like, maybe she just has a really good PR team. But like, she definitely always knows how to, like, stand up for herself when she needs to, but then also, you know, not just double down when she makes mistakes. And I think that's really great. I know she was like a really big advocate for legalizing gay marriage and things like that. Like, she's really been somewhat of an activist in terms of issues that she really cares about, which I think is great. She's just a really… seems like a really good role model to be a movie star. I mean, obviously she's not perfect. I don't think that anyone has a right to expect her to be perfect, but I did really appreciate that, like when Ocean's 8 came out and everybody was like, “Wow, Anne Hathaway is like, the best part of this movie that is a great movie and has a lot of great parts.” And then some people were like, “Yeah, she's the best part of every movie she's in. Why has it taken you this long to notice?” Like people kind of coming back around to being like, “Yeah, she's always been good. Why did we hate her?” 

Quinn 

Well, and I think it's fabulous because in that movie she plays an actress who you kind of think is going to be like, obnoxious and not really that great. And then she ends up being, like, essential to the con and… 

Jane 

Yes, I love that. And like I kind of wish that they had done something like that in Ella Enchanted with Parminder Nagra's character. 

Quinn 

Right. 

Jane 

Like, that's what they needed to do is like bring her back and have her be like, “Yeah, OK, you really hurt me. But now I'm gonna help you” kind of thing. Yeah. 

Quinn 

Well, yeah. And I mean, I guess I do feel like you tend to have things for actors and actresses that are older. You know, I think of a lot of your actor obsessions being, you know, people from a bygone era that were dead before you were born. I feel like Anne Hathaway has been an actress that sort of we've grown up with that we've sort of seen come of age - we remember a time before Anne Hathaway and saw her rise - that you've really enjoyed. And I think have looked at as like I would say, I think you're a particular fan of Anne Hathaway. And like I I think that that's that's interesting, and I'm curious if… you've probably already described many of the things that maybe have drawn you to her more so than like other actors of her generation. 

Jane 

Yeah, I would definitely… I mean, I'm sure there's bigger Anne Hathaway fans than me, I'm not like her number one fan or anything, but definitely she's one of the actors that I've been more of a fan of. And like, she's less than 10 years older than me, so she’s like pretty close to my generation and I think that a lot of it is that, like, she's an Old Hollywood fan, like she has a lot of those sensibilities of, like, the Old Hollywood actors. And I think that that is something that I've picked up on even without like that consciously being why I like her. But I do think that that has helped. That like she is definitely very modern, but in a way that takes things I liked about the older Hollywood style. Like I think she probably would say that she's more of a method actor and a lot of the actors I like are kind of before that became the norm. But like, I think she's still very much the like, get up there, say the lines and think about that rather than just being like, “I'm going to fully embody this character!” which is something that kind of irritates me about actors sometimes as being like, “I'm just becoming this person now.” It's like, I think she she's got that sort of line between herself and her characters that a lot of the like, more like modern stars… I mean, I'm, I know there's modern actors who are great, but I think the like movie star leading role people kind of rub me the wrong way sometimes. But like I think that she has similarities to like the old Hollywood stars that I'm a fan of, and sort of bridges that gap into the modern era, if that makes any sense? I truly don't know if I’m explaining this- 

Quinn 

I think that's all really interesting and I think makes a lot of sense. I think that's a cool observation and I'm just thinking tying it back to Ella Enchanted, I was thinking the last time I watched it specifically, I was like, what is different about Ella from Princess Mia? Like where… where are the lines there? And in truth, I think that there's a lot that's similar about Princess Mia and about Ella. And like I think that, yeah, that makes a lot of sense because I know that you really love like Cary Grant, for example, who I think Cary Grant has range and has performances that it's very transformative between roles, but he does have a brand and he has a style and like a lot of movies, it's like here's like a specific character, like this one's a scientist, this one's a teacher, this one's a, a that and we're just going to do the Cary Grant version of like that profession or like that. Like we're going to give him a few boundaries to work with that are like character defining traits, but then he's going to bring the Cary Grant brand to it. And they feel like that's almost what the transition from Princess Mia to Ella Enchanted is, is it's like, we're going to change the the formation of these characters in a little bit of different ways, and like I I notice like the Princess Mia, Lily friendship is kind of flipped in Ella Enchanted, and like Arieda is much more like Mia, and Ella is much more like Lily in that dynamic and like that, the fact that they're activists and like going to, like protests and stuff, I feel like kind of mirrors each other. But it's very much Anne Hathaway bringing the Anne Hathaway brand to each of those characters, and like they're both very Anne Hathaway. Like, you get her as a star, you get the brand of her, you get the identity of her while she's in kind of just these different formations of like, that protagonist character that leads the movie one way or the other. 

Jane 

Yeah, I think it's like there's certain movie stars who, just like, always play the same character. And it's like, OK, that's that actor, that's that actor, that's that actor, and it gets a little bit redundant. And then there's other actors who are like very much blend into their roles, which if it's done well, I think that that's really good and I really appreciate that. Like, I like Meryl Streep, and like those kind of like… really good. But I think there's some actors who are like, “I'm just going to be completely different in this movie!” and it just, like, doesn't quite… gel with me, I guess? I don't know. But like, I think my favorite kind of actors tend to be the ones where, like you can always tell it's them, but they're doing different things and like they're very versatile within their wheelhouse, like it's not they're doing the same thing every time, but at the same time they they bring themselves to it. And I think that that that Anne Hathaway is very much like that. Because obviously like playing Fantine in Les Mis is very different from playing Ella in Ella Enchanted like they're completely different characters. And I'm not saying like, “Ohh yeah, but it was just Anne Hathaway doing that.” Like, she's a good actress. But I guess I just, I feel like I get her persona a little bit more and like I… I don't want to say it like I'm trying to like insult any actors, but I just think that I tend to resonate with the ones that are more in the style of the Old Hollywood people who were like themselves, like you were saying bringing Cary Grant brand to different characters and I think Anne Hathaway has a very strong star personality and I think that that really comes out in the Ella Enchanted commentary and I think that it's very telling that that was like so early in her career because it was only a few years after Princess Diaries. But she was already like, “This is me. This is who I am. I'm a fully formed person and I'm not going to let Hollywood mess me up too much,” I think, because I think a lot of people fame can really go to their head. And I think that, I mean, there's no way for it not to a little bit, but I feel like… at least the way she comes across, I'm not claiming to know her, but I feel like Anne Hathaway has- seems to have kept her integrity throughout the fame. And I really respect that and it's been really fun to see that like through the ups and downs of her career so far, and I'm sure there's much more to come from her, she's not that old, so I'm sure she'll be- 

Quinn 

Right. No, we're it's not… this is not a memorial of Anne Hathaway. But yeah, I think that makes sense. It's interesting to hear what's really attractive about her from your perspective. Because I I, I think that does make a lot of sense, and I really do kind of see her as someone in that that just kind of feels right, you know, in thinking about Anne Hathaway as someone who's sort of… is in the older school of, you know, being that type of star, and I really do think that that's some of her best strengths as an actor and that she's she's immediately someone familiar. Like she, we've grown up with her on screen in various roles and like I think that that is something that a lot of those older actors really bring to like a sense of familiarity, and that allows you to really get into the story because they have such potent brands and their brands are not necessarily like “I'm a completely different person in everything I'm in.” Like I'm almost like Meryl Streep is an actress who people talk about as being very transformative. I almost think like Nicole Kidman is kind of that actress. I'm just like, “Satine is the same person as Virginia Woolf?!” Like she's someone to me that I'm like, Nicole Kidman could be anybody, like… 

Jane 

Yeah, or like Daniel Day-Lewis. 

Quinn 

Yeah. Yeah, like additional people. 

Jane 

And like, no offense to them like, I think they're amazingly talented and I- 

Quinn 

I think what you're describing is like actors that maybe don't have the ability to be that transformed or just like are overcommitted to the process, to the point where it's just like an excuse to be mean to people. Like Jared Leno. 

Jane 

Oh yeah, everybody who's played the Joker has been like, “I'm going to use this to be mean to people.” So yeah, there are definitely actors who do that really well and like, all power to them, tons of respect. But I think that there's some actors that just try to do stuff throughout their career that I'm just sort of like, that's fine, but I don't really like love that as much. And I think that in the Princess Diaries 2 commentary Anne Hathaway talks quite a bit about old movies that she likes. And I think that that is sort of what has given me the impression of, like, oh, that's why I like her. Because she also is taking from these old movies. And I think that a lot of the more modern actors who I like have something in common with the Old Hollywood style of acting. 

Quinn 

Is this the first Anne Hathaway movie on the podcast? 

Jane 

I think so.

Quinn

Oh!

Jane

I think it's only this and Princess Diaries. 

Quinn 

OK. That makes sense that I haven't really heard your thoughts about Anne Hathaway on the podcast yet. Another comment that I wanted to make about Anne Hathaway's performance style: I actually see a lot of similarities to Ginger Rogers and like how you were describing Ginger Rogers was like, at least perceived by Katharine Hepburn at like the time of Stage Door. I can see some similarities in like how they came across, and I think Anne Hathaway is less known for her dancing, but just the, you know, the really like competent professional model that can deliver really versatile performances and kind of has a few like tricks. And it's not just the acting, it's also the singing, or also the dancing or both. I I see, I see there being something sort of similar between the two of them. 

Jane 

Yeah. And just like that, people wanted to work with them. Because I think that was part of Katherine Hepburn's issues earlier in her career is that she was very difficult to work with, which like I understand like- 

Quinn 

 [laughing] I can't imagine Katharine Hepburn being difficult. 

Jane 

I know, right? 

Quinn 

That's why she's the perfect Susan Vance! 

Jane 

She was like like, I mean, obviously I feel like even now women are not treated very well in Hollywood. And back then, it was very bad in a lot of ways. And so, like, I can't really fault her for like, standing up for herself, and that got you labeled as difficult, so I think some of it was that, but I think also just like I think Ginger Rogers would have been willing to be friends with her, and she was very much like, “No. We are not friends.” Based on Anne Hathaway’s commentary, like, it seems like she’s very gracious towards everybody she was working with and like, I mean, maybe there's people out there who've worked with Anne Hathaway who were like, “Oh, no, she was horrible.” But I don't think I've heard any stories about her actually being hard to work with, whereas like some stars like I just off the top of my head, Christian Bale comes to mind of like crew members being like, “He just always yells at us” and stuff like that, and I think that like easy to work with for actresses can be code for just like very compliant and never standing up for themselves. And I don't think that that's what Anne Hathaway is like. But I do think that, yeah, she's more of a Ginger Rogers than a Katharine Hepburn in terms of like people want to work with her. So yeah, I think that's a good, that's a good analogy to draw. We’ve talked a lot about Anne Hathaway, but I think she deserves it. 

Quinn 

Yeah, well, I'm… knowing that this is her debut on your countdown, I I feel like she's somebody that I think of as a modern interest of yours. Someone who's still alive that you like and follow to some extent. 

Jane 

Yeah, well, there's- when I keep track of the movies I watch, there are certain actors who I update every year when I update my spreadsheet of like how many movies I've seen of theirs and how many times, and like list out like which movies I've seen which number of times for each of them, and most of the actors I track are from Old Hollywood. There's a few more modern ones. Yeah, Anne Hathaway is definitely one of those. And I think that also like being introduced to her along with Julie Andrews, like I wasn't a huge Julie Andrews fan before Princess Diaries. And so I think that like that movie, which I will talk about later, but that really made me really like both of them. And so I kind of think of like, me being a fan of Anne, starting at the same time as Julie Andrews. And so they kind of, like, go together in my mind. And I think having this other movie that's kind of similar to Princess Diaries in that she's playing sort of a princessy type character, but different soon after that really helped fuel my interest in like, keep my interest in Anne Hathaway after Princess Diaries. 

Quinn 

Yeah, it's honestly beautiful in many ways to think about that pairing for Princess Diaries cause I think I'm sure you're not alone in some way in that story of being introduced to both of them at the same time, or reintroduced, I think a lot of people probably know the Sound of Music and Mary Poppins at least. But yeah, I mean, I think that it's very cool that like, what a great, you know, way to burst onto the Hollywood scene than with the Julie Andrews movie and yeah, I think it's cool to think of how a lot of people must have become fans of both of them at the same time and must kind of attach these two very talented women who have both dominated the entertainment industry for quite some time. I think it's, yeah, it's, it's cool to think about that that's where Anne Hathaway started in a lot of homes. 

Jane 

Yeah, you know, and Julie Andrews continues to have a career, but also is more known for being sort of at the end of the classic Hollywood era, and that she similarly burst onto the scene with a big role that made her an instant star because- 

Quinn 

And that was sort of a kids’ movie too. 

Jane 

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was a Disney movie. And so like to start as the star of a Disney movie and then just kind of go from there. And Julie Andrews has also had many ups and downs in her career with people loving her and then not liking her that much and like that has happened to her as well, which I think it happens to anybody if you're around long enough. But yeah. So I think that having that connection to Old Hollywood directly also seems more of my jam. And it was fun for me to see somebody closer to my age also talking about liking old movies and things like that. I'm like, OK, cool. I'm not alone in being interested in Old Hollywood, as a younger person who's still alive. And I'm sure that there's a lot of other actors who feel similarly also, like I think you kind of have to if you know your craft, you're going to have seen older movies. But yeah, I think she's been open about like, “Yeah, I I like Audrey Hepburn” and things like that, so… 

Quinn 

I was going to say she does give me a very Audrey Hepburn type vibe, but like almost like spunkier than Audrey Hepburn but Audrey Hepburn was pretty spunky too, so I wouldn't. I wouldn't take that away from her.

Jane

Yeah.

Quinn

To completely change the subject: amatonormativity. This movie is a love story. How do you feel about that? 

[both laugh]

Jane 

Yeah, it is definitely a love story. I do think that it's interesting that like, Ella does not at any point set out to find love. She does fall in love with Char definitely, but that's not her objective. Like it's an important part of this story, but ultimately like, that's not what the story's about. Like, I think it's much more about her curse and trying to break away from her having to be obedient. 

Quinn 

And really, her learning to use love as a tool to be the, you know, the most, like, actualized curse-liberated version of herself. I think that that's like important, too. Like she she realizes that love is something that she wants in her life, like a romantic love is something that she she wants and that that is sort of how she learns to use love as a way to break the curve. 

Jane 

Yeah and I feel like it's never really been an option for her up until that point, because I think that one of two things would happen. Either she would marry someone who would then, like, completely take advantage of her curse and just- 

Quinn 

Yes, that would be very scary for her. 

Jane 

Or she would end up really hurting her partner by having to do stuff because someone else told her to, and that kind of almost happens the second one. Because Char is very kind and understanding and like even there's certain moments in the movie when he like says something and she starts to do it and he's like “That wasn't an order. Like, I'm not trying to make you do stuff you don't want to do.” 

Quinn 

He's very taken aback by her in all ways because he's used to women throwing themselves at him and so he's very taken aback that Ella doesn't do that at the beginning. And then he's taken aback when she's like overly compliant on things that he meant as more like suggestions and just like interpersonal interactions. 

Jane 

Yeah. 

Quinn 

There's a lot of commands and casual conversation we learn through Ella Enchanted. 

Jane 

And I think they do a really good job with that and there's this great moment when he says, “You have to stay,” and she's like, “OK, I'll stay.” And he's like, “Well, no, you don't HAVE to stay.” And she's like, “OK” and she, like starts to leave. He's like, “But I would like you to stay.” And then she does. And I think that she really appreciates that he wants to give her her own agency when she's never been able to have that. But then of course, Edgar manipulates it and tries to get her to kill Char, and I think that that is part of why she was like, “it's not good that I'm in love with him” cause she knew something that could happen. I don't think she anticipated it happening quite like that or quite that soon. So I think it's very strong of her to allow herself to fall in love with Char and then to be able to overcome the curse, fully break it, rather than killing him, and… side note: another of my favorite parts of the commentary is when she says “I do love you, Char,” and then she raises the knife cause she's like being forced to. And in the commentary, the director goes, “I'm just not in love with you.” It's like, that's what you do. You kill them when you say that!

Quinn

It's iconic.

Jane It's great. But anyway, she is in love with him and so I think that again a lot of what I'm learning through this project is a lot of my favorite love stories are the ones where like falling in love is not the path that they were supposed to go on. Like with Sound of Music like she wants to be a nun. She's not supposed to fall in love with anyone. And then she does. And I think that often with amatonormativity the path is like you are going to fall in love and get married and have kids. And for Ella that's not her path at all initially. And so I think I really enjoy stories where people are forging their own path and not doing what society or other people around them tell them to do. Which is especially poignant in this movie because she literally has to do what everybody tells her to do for most of the story. And so I think that like, because there are all these things about like why, not only should she not end up with Char, she shouldn't end up with anybody. And so I think seeing like, but she wants to and she makes that happen for herself is more powerful than a lot of the like, typical romantic stories where it's like, maybe these two people are pulled apart by various forces, but like, they're going to find someone and marry someone. That's less interesting to me than stories like this. 

Quinn 

That's interesting. 

Jane 

But again, it's like there is the romantic element of it, but there's so much more going on and it's so much more about Ella finding herself and finding her own voice when she's being constantly talked over and drowned out. And I think that that's…that's what I like about this story. And like the love story is incidental. But I do think that it's good that Char is so much kinder to her than most of the other people she encounters besides Slannen I guess. 

Quinn 

Other than the romantic relationship, what are your favorite relationships in Ella Enchanted? 

Jane 

Ooh, that's a good question… ha, Edgar and his snake? 

Quinn 

You know that's a good one. I honestly think I might like the Ella and Mandy relationship.

Jane

Oh, yeah.

Quinn

I know it's not emphasized much, but you can just tell that they have a good rapport. I I guess I like Minnie Driver and Anne Hathaway in scenes together, they seem to really have a good chemistry, but yeah, I I like, I like that bond. I think that the step sister bond is funny and interesting. One of my least favorite relationships is the relationship between the father and Ella? Like he is so weird, like because he does- you get the sense he cares about her, and is like mildly intelligent. He's just, like, distant, like, absent, like always on on the road. So he can't be involved in the home situation, but like he's kind of a little weird. 

Jane 

Yeah, he- Well, he's very underdeveloped. And I also think it's very interesting how like, it takes him a really long time to notice that she's gone and you just see, like, this one random scene where he's, like, talking to the stepmother and “Where's Ella?” And she's just like, “Oh, she's off with Hattie and Olive, it's fine.” And it's like she's been gone for many days at this point. Like, did you just notice that she left? 

Quinn 

[stepmother impression] “She’s taking a tour of the castle.” 

Jane 

[continues stepmother impression] “With Hattie and Olive.” I mean, Joanna Lumley just is very, very funny. 

Quinn 

It's honestly the main performance of hers that I think of. I feel like this is very embarrassing. I know she's in lots of other things, but I mainly think of Joanna Lumley as an Ella Enchanted actress. 

Jane 

I mean, I feel like most of the people in this movie, there's like two different levels of people. It's like either, “Oh yeah, from Ella Enchanted!” or like, “They were in Ella Enchanted?!” 

Quinn 

Yeah, there are two choices. 

Jane 

Yeah, except for like Anne Hathaway, obviously it’s like, I know she's in Ella Enchanted, but I don't automatically think of Ella Enchanted. But like Hugh Dancy…

Quinn

He’s Prince Char!

Jane

He's just so ingrained in Ella Enchanted for me and I think that like, obviously, Anne Hathaway is the main star of this movie, but Hugh Dancy does a great job and I think he does a good job also of like stepping back and letting her be the lead of the movie. 

Quinn 

Yeah, he's really fantastic and I like the character of Char and it's all a yes for me on the Prince Char front. And I think like their relationship feels very earned throughout the movie. And I agree, you know, I think that it's like, ugh does every movie have to have a romance? Like there is a a quality of like, this probably didn't need to be there, but it is, but I think it's an earned relationship. I think you can see how they're both willing to be supportive of each other. I think you can see how they're helping each other grow. I think that Ella really does challenge Char’s complacency in his privilege. And I think that, I don't know what does Char really do for Ella? Um... 

Jane 

He saves her! 

Quinn 

Oh yes, he does save her from the ogres. I think that she does view the world in a really adversarial terms because she has to, to, like, protect herself, and I think that he kind of helps her bring down her walls a little bit. I think you see that throughout the course of the movie. So, yeah, I think they're both, like, really enriching each other's lives in a way that is nice, and they have good chemistry. I feel like I would watch the Hugh Dancy/Anne Hathaway rom com in the future, like I would see them paired up in another movie. 

Jane 

Yeah, I think that that one objection that I tend to have for a lot of especially rom coms, but romantic movies in general is that a lot of times I feel like the relationship between the leads is actually kind of toxic if you think about it and, like…

Quinn 

Yes, it's true. 

Jane 

…one of them is stalking the other, like something really creepy is happening that you're supposed to think is cute, and I don't feel like we get that with the Ella Enchanted one. I feel like they have a really good organic falling in love. And also like with a lot of Cinderella adaptations, I feel like the Prince is usually very underdeveloped as a character. 

Quinn 

And it's we talked about this when we watched all the Disney movies. Like it's probably one of the biggest flaws in the Disney Cinderella, which is sort of a standard classic interpretation of Cinderella. I think there's other versions of Cinderella that improve on it a little bit, but there's frankly many that follow in the same footsteps of having kind of an anonymous prince. 

Jane 

Yeah. And like on the one hand, that's fine, cause it's Cinderella's story. But on the other hand, I'm like, this is very much Ella’s story, but I feel like we understand who Char is and he's very well developed and their relationship is very well developed. Like we have many scenes together. At first, like she really doesn't like him. It's a trope that happens in many romantic films of like initially one of them is like, “Ugh, I hate you,” and then they get together eventually. But I think it's very gradual and just feels very organic and it makes sense. And so yeah, I I am in favor of their romance. Like I- 

Quinn 

Well, and he's also, not looking at Ella as a conquest, even though it's very clearly established when they meet that like she's not into him and he is sort of like allured by that because he's very used to like running from a screaming horde of fans. And so, like, you can tell that he's both like this is of interest to him that Ella has resistance to him because it's unusual, but it's not like- There's a very easy way to make that character very toxic then, and to say, like, oh, I'm going to conquest this, and I don't think that that's how he feels about her. And it's really they don't cross paths again until he's saving her life from the ogre. So there's like a very good, like, high stakes reason for him to intervene in her life at that time. Like, there's not, like, a creepy, like, I'm gonna get that girl who resisted me. 

Jane 

Well, and he doesn't know the full story of what she's doing because she's not allowed to tell anyone about the curse. But like he's willing to help her find her fairy godmother, like, basically no questions asked. And you don't ever get the impression that he's, like, doing it to like, because there's, you know, the whole friend zone of, like, “I was nice to her, and now she's not sleeping with me.” Like you don't get the impression that he's helping her to get in her pants or anything. Like he really wants to help her. 

Quinn 

Yeah, there's not really any like subversive stuff that you feel like subversive motivation that he has that you sense he has ever. 

Jane 

Yeah, yeah, I think they do a really good job of that of like, I think he would be OK with being her friend and advocate. 

Quinn 

Well, yeah, and you get the sense that he wants a peer to, like, talk to because he can't talk to any other young women because they're too busy, like screaming about him.

Jane

Yeah.

Quinn

Like, I don't… I can't imagine he's having, like, really deep conversations with a lot of the other people that are in the fan club that are just like, “Char’s naked in the shower?!” and like, just like screaming. Like literally screaming and like chasing him down. Like I think if there's anything that Ella Enchanted is a cutting analysis on stan culture because they really put the stans out there and say “You're blowing your shot by acting this way. It's not cute!” 

Jane 

Yeah, and I I think he also he's like tired of being overly sexualized. And so the fact that she sees him as a person is really like not just to turn on for him. Like obviously that's part of it. And like he falls in love with her partly because she is not screaming at him. But I think, like, just they're able to get to know each other, person to person, and that's really what you feel like their falling in love is is like now that I know you as a person, I really have this deep connection with you, and I think they have some great scenes together that really show that. So again, I like that the romance isn't the main part, but I also really like the way they do the romance in this movie. So I think it gets a pass from me of being like this is a good romance movie. 

Quinn 

The Jane Ace star. 

Jane 

Yes, exactly! You could be aroace and still appreciate the relationship that they have. 

Quinn 

The aroace sealed romance. 

Jane 

There you go. And, yeah, I do think that there's other good relationships. I really wish that the Ella/Areida relationship was better developed because I would really like to have that strong female friendship because again there’s… it is a female driven story, but the secondary characters that are more developed tend to be male characters like Slannen and the ogre Nish…

Quinn

Edgar.

Jane

Edgar, yeah. Whereas like you have, like, the stepmother and the step sisters who are great. And then... 

Quinn 

And and Minnie driver, you have Mandy. 

Jane 

Mandy, yeah, but I would love to see more from them. 

Quinn 

And Lucinda. 

Jane 

Yeah, but Lucinda is, I think every moment she has great. 

Quinn 

And there could be more diversity in the cast, too. That's also a critique. 

Jane 

Yeah, always. But at least they're not all white. 

Quinn 

It's true there is some diversity. 

Jane 

Minimal diversity, but yeah, yeah, absolutely. More diversity, would love to see a… like because everybody kind of, not everybody, but some of the other characters get paired up because you have that random like Slannen and Heidi Klum thing. It was like he could have found a man to be with. Like we could have some, queer pairings here. I mean it’s fine. I think that like I do enjoy this movie on its own. I don't feel like it would have made it into the Top 40 without the commentary. 

Quinn 

Well, yeah. And I think I think it's probably like a less polished version of, like, Mamma Mia in the sense of like, I imagine, like, you would watch this movie for similar reasons that you would watch something like Mamma, Mia and maybe Mamma Mia is just like a little bit sharper of a movie. Although it is also, I think in the same like it's kind of stupid at times and like embraces being stupid and yeah, it's like it's a random musical for no real reason. It's fun and so I feel like that's why it's also easy to watch the commentary because that just like makes it more fun. 

Jane 

Right, yeah. 

Quinn 

And so, you know, I think I agree, I don't know that this is like the best movie on its own. But I think the combination of it being a lot of fun, having fun commentary, sort of striking some of the same balance of like Mamma Mia and other movies that have ended up high in your countdown. That could be what it is. It's just it's just the right cocktail of all of those things. 

Jane 

Yeah. Well, I think it's very chaotic and eclectic, but ultimately, like everybody was making the same movie. And I think that really helps that like, yes, there's all these different pieces and all these different things going on. Which I guess is kind of what makes it feel a bit more old movie-ish that there's like this very convoluted plot of several different characters doing things. But yeah, everybody, I feel like everybody was on the same page. Everybody knew what movie they were making. They knew it was kind of silly and not really that amazing. And they were all just OK with that. And I think that really makes it work a lot better than it would have if people were like, yeah, this is whatever a trashy movie, we're just gonna get paid. And I feel like everybody was just like, we're gonna show up, we're gonna have a good time. And yeah, I think that that really comes across to the audience and that's what makes it an enjoyable movie, despite not being a great movie. 

Quinn 

Yeah. Sounds like the right recipe to end up on your countdown. 

Jane 

Yes, exactly. So thank you so much for being here with me and talking for a very long time about this movie that we both love. 

Quinn 

Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. I love discussing anything related to Ella Enchanted. 

Jane 

Yes, and I'm so glad that you were here to discuss it with me.

Thank you to Quinn for all of your insights and questions, and thank you listeners for sticking through my longest episode yet. I hope it was still fun and interesting for you – it certainly was for me. Now that we’re in the top half of the list, I feel like I’m going to have more to say about each movie, so they will probably start trending a bit longer, although I’m sure my solo episodes will still be much shorter than this. But before we get back to just me talking I have one more special guest episode lined up, so stay tuned for another long one next week, about a very different type of film. As always, I will leave you with a quote from that next movie: “She may be risking her life, but when it comes to being a lady, she doesn’t hold a candle to your wife, sir, sitting in Washington, playing bridge with three other ladies of great honor and virtue.”