#i do think another thing that makes the movie and comic versions feel so different despite being very similar on paper

[thankskenpenders]

At long last, the trailer for Sonic movie 3 is here, giving us our first look at Shadow! It looks like a fun time, though my excitement is probably more tempered than a lot of peoples' due to a few things I have mixed feelings on. Here are my off-the-cuff thoughts about it.

Shadow

Yes, it does seem like they've really nailed Shadow here. Fowler's attachment to the character clearly shows. The action looks cool and really sells Shadow as a serious threat. He's got his bike, he's doing Chaos Control all over the place, it's great. Keanu is very much just doing his regular voice, but it fits well enough. The backstory from SA2 seems to mostly be there, though I'm sure some details will be adjusted. Mostly I'm still just amazed that we're getting a major tentpole blockbuster movie this Christmas starring Shadow the fucking Hedgehog that treats him as a serious character worthy of respect. We've come such a long way...

I mean, just... what an image to see on the big screen.

I also really like the way they're setting Shadow up as a foil for movie Sonic, kind of his dark mirror image as a Mobian hedgehog whose family life on Earth ended in tragedy and turned him into a vengeful antagonist. It's pretty straightforward, but it works well.

Robotnik(s)

Welp. They put Jim Carrey in a fat suit. I suppose we knew this day would come eventually.

I guess a small part of me is glad that movie Eggman finally actually looks like Eggman in every way that matter, but they're completely playing it as a joke at his expense here. And, yeah, the Sonic franchise isn't immune to fat jokes, the early years of the franchise (particularly Western adaptations) gave Sonic tons and tons and tons of jabs about Eggman's weight. But I thought we'd moved past that. But here we are with a depressed movie Robotnik binge eating and gaining a lot of weight like Fat Thor and the other characters think he's so GROSS and look his clothes don't even fit him anymore, haha! There's so much of this crammed into the trailer. I can only pray they don't do this in every fucking scene he's in in the movie.

I do like the plot of Sonic reluctantly teaming up with Robotnik to try and stop Shadow, though. It's very different from SA2, but we knew it would be, and I think that gives the movie some potential for Sonic to have kind of a dark turn of his own that mirror's Shadow's. I have a feeling that Sonic will try to get back at Shadow for something he does - maybe hurting Tom or something like that - and in the end Sonic sympathizes with Shadow and decides they have to stop their cycle of revenge, teaming up to stop some final threat.

Oh, and, of course... Jim Carrey is also playing Professor Gerald. Who might still be alive? Or maybe it's a hallucination on Ivo's part? I don't know, but either way, I'm here for it. Everyone joked about them doing it and then they went and did it. Yes, it risks playing him as a joke character, but the shot of him and Shadow mourning Maria while surrounded by GUN soldiers makes me believe he won't be a total joke. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the true final antagonist of the film, which would diverge a lot from the games but would work as its own version of the story.

And again, WHAT an image to see on the big screen lmao

Everyone else

The human cast is VERY downplayed in this trailer, but let's not forget that they're still going to get a lot of screentime one way or another. The Sonic 2 trailer barely showed anything from Hawaii. Where oh where is my best friend Wade?

Speaking of the Wade show, Knuckles... frankly still seems to be mostly a comic relief character heavily influenced by MCU Thor here, getting some jokes in the trailer but immediately getting Worfed by Shadow when it comes time to fight. Tails seems to be flying the gang around in a real-ass helicopter, and his big pilot's helmet is funny, but otherwise he doesn't really do anything here aside from getting stomped by Shadow. I really hope they don't get sidelined too hard, but frankly I fully expect them to, Tails especially.

And, of course... I can't help but think about who isn't here. Namely: the girls. Yes, three movies and one streaming miniseries into this film franchise, exactly zero of the female (animal) characters from the games have made the jump to live action. Please allow me to bitch about this.

Despite her being both 1) a main character in the game this movie is loosely adapting and 2) my fave, I suppose I can understand why Rouge isn't here. Paramount took one look at that bat cleavage and went "nope," cowards that they are. There was some speculation that Kristen Ritter could be playing Rouge, but we now know she's just playing someone at GUN. But, again, I at least get why they'd be hesitant to include her.

But Amy... Amy is such a glaring omission at this point. There's no excuse. She's the female lead of the franchise. She's one of Sonic's closest friends. (Honestly, these days it's more accurate to say Team Sonic is Sonic, Tails, and Amy, not Knuckles, especially in the comics.) And she's also a key player in Shadow's arc in the game. Shadow has his change of heart because Amy reminds him of Maria! And yet, she's nowhere to be seen. It sucks.

(I know some fans are still holding out hope for Amy, but the toys for the movie already leaked and she didn't get anything, so I have to assume she's not in it.)

It's not like I really expected either of them to be in this movie, but that doesn't make it less disappointing that they set up the film franchise in a way that makes it logistically difficult to include 90% of the characters and conveniently managed to leave all of the girls in the "low priority" pile. Yes, I know everyone points to how much Tails was downplayed in the third act of Sonic 2 as evidence that it's just so impossible to introduce more than one new Mobian character in each movie and give them the focus they deserve. Yes, I know having to come up with a story excuse to bring more characters over to Earth is an obstacle, especially when they're gonna have to devote time to Shadow's backstory. But these are excuses. It's a writer's job to figure out solutions to problems like this. They could make it work if they really wanted to. I'd take Amy having a suboptimal amount of screentime over her not being in it at all. It's just not a priority for them. That's what disappoints me. You can justify these absences from a logical perspective, but I just care way more about Amy and Rouge as characters than I do about Shadow, so there's no way for this to not sting.

But, at the end of the day, for what the movie is actually trying to do, it seems to be pulling it off well. Aside from the fat jokes. I don't like the fat jokes. But the Shadow stuff is good. As always, this live action version of the franchise is never going to be my ideal version of Sonic, but it's turned out far better than it had any right to, and I'll probably have fun when I go see this in theaters and hear Live and Learn.

[descendant-of-truth]

That said, I do think that Shadow Generations being such a more carefully cultivated exploration of Shadow's past compared to what the original Generations was for Sonic is... not doing Sonic himself any favors

General audiences are already kind of under the impression that Sonic as a character is fundamentally not that deep or interesting, and Generations was written during a time that really, really wanted to prove that notion right. Sonic "being deep" was what, seemingly, caused so much critical backlash, so to counteract that, they gave us the blandest cutscenes Sonic has ever had the displeasure of being in.

But that's not really what Sega is trying to push for, now. Frontiers wanted to be more serious, with a mature, down-to-earth Sonic. The movies gave him an origin story that inherently makes him a lot more complicated than usual. Prime put the focus on his emotions and gave him a character arc that lasted the whole show. The IDW comics can get extremely serious, and we're treated to Sonic's inner monologue as he wrestles with difficult choices. They clearly want Sonic as a character to be interesting to people, not just a vehicle for action and quips.

But putting the old Sonic Generations in the same package as the new Shadow Generations is inherently portraying them as equivalent experiences. When Sonic explores his past, it's no big deal - just another day on the hero job! Absolutely nothing worth exploring on his end when it comes to meeting his past self and revisiting his memories! Nope! No need to use time travel as a way to explore his core values as a person who prefers to live in the moment and not be bound by his past, no siree!

Oh, but Shadow? Now that's the actually interesting character! Revisiting Shadow's past is such an exciting event that it requires the whole year to hype up, and Sonic's just so boring in comparison, isn't he? Who really cares about Sonic beyond his surface-level characteristics anyway, right? The Sonic Generations remaster is more of an accessory to what's essentially Shadow the Hedgehog 2 at this point, and that bothers me.

Sure, Sonic doesn't have "a backstory" like Shadow does. But the past that we explore in Sonic Generations isn't his literal origins, but all the adventures we went on with him. Imagine how much depth you could wring out of him if you just took those events as being legitimate parts of his life that he has feelings on! Feelings we could explore!

But because it's a remaster instead of a full-blown remake, all of this effort they're putting into Shadow's campaign is nowhere to be seen in Sonic's. Can you imagine how good of a package deal this would be if Sonic's character was given this much care and respect, too? Like, we have two Sonics, but Shadow is getting more than double the favoritism.

And the fact that this is only going to continue to push the idea that Sonic is just. incapable of being interesting, or even really affected by what happens around him is really frustrating. We already have the movies and Prime drastically changing his demeanor and core traits for the sake of making him "able" to have character development, and as much as I love those versions as characters, it's really doing a disservice to who Sonic is supposed to be.

The last thing we need is for Generations to come out again and make the Sonic from the games seem like the least interesting version of him. Bringing Shadow up should not involve dragging Sonic down - they're supposed to be equals. But this game doesn't seem to be showcasing that very well, on account of essentially being two games written by different people haphazardly mashed together.

People being introduced to the series through this game are going to have such a skewed perception of what Sonic is like as a person, as well as what he's like compared to Shadow, and that just. makes me kinda upset not gonna lie

[deadliestgalaxy]

SPOILERS FOR GOTG VOL. 3 - DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN’T WATCHED IT YET!

I have a feeling that everyone (who calls themselves fans) that didn't get the meaning of the ending in GOTG Vol. 3 has never read a single comic of them or is only a fan of some characters/relationships. Many complaints I've seen are about the end and Gamora and Peter’s romance, which sounds kind of childish. You don't need to agree with me, but I’d like to elaborate on that.

James Gunn's writing is always about the detail of things and he is not afraid to do something “bad” if it is the best for the STORYTELLING. This is what most of these people don't get: the most important part of these movies is the story they are telling. The characters help the movie tell the story, it's their story after all — but there's no protagonist or greater good that puts them above the narrative.

(This is different from Gamora’s death in IW btw. It was not the only way they had to make the story flow; they just wanted to “humanize” Thanos and by that, they chose to kill her character. It was an action ADDED not CRUCIAL to the story.)

Vol. 3 is about found-family and growing up; finishing cycles. They will always be family, as we will always be part of their story (that’s why we understand Groot now). However, life chapters end just like in real books, and these Guardians as a TEAM “chapter” has ended for them and for us.

This is very common in the comics. Most times they are all separated, doing solo missions, until something goes wrong and they reunite again. They never stop being friends, why would it be different in the movie universe?

But the end suggests they are not family anymore.

Did we see the same film? No, it doesn't. We can see that in James’ subtle writing: the way they all still respect each other, their understanding of one another, and how they all would die for themselves if needed. That won't change just because they are not physically together — just like when you finish school you won't ignore your best friends, even if you create new relationships (which you will).

But Gamora is not part of the family anymore.

Well, if you see it this way, I can't change your mind. What I can say is that the story IMPLIES that she still is, in fact. And the number one clue is that she (in 2 days) understands Groot. Remember, we also understand him because the fans are now part of the Guardians family — so understanding him and being family are correlated.

Anyhow, I know this is not enough for most people, so hear me out: Gamora’s arc is about respect and healing. She starts the movie skeptical about working with the guardians — she just wants the money— when in reality, she acts like this because she is AFRAID and feels PRESSURED to be around her “old” family.

Imagine: you died but then another version of you comes back without knowing anything of your present life. People will expect you to act in a certain way that maybe you started to act after you met them; they will expect you to like certain things you don't know of; people will EXPECT you to attend to their needs. It is a lot to swallow at once. You are afraid because you don't know them, you don't think you deserve all this love and commitment out of nowhere. So you run away. You run away to find things on your own, to grow out of this pressure you feel and discover the whole universe of possibilities you have ahead.

That's what Gamora did. But then, the mission went south and now she is stuck with her “old” team. The film shows us her character exploring the ship, listening to music... trying to understand them. At one point she even says to Rocket “You must be a very loyal pet for them to do all this for you” (or something similar). This is her way of putting into words how she visualizes the current scenario she was put in. Slowly she recognizes that they are a family, and by the way they act she finally gets how and why she also must have loved them in the past.

She goes from “I don't give a fuck”, not open to them, afraid and pressured to “I bet we were fun”, understanding and respecting them, even fighting for their family to survive.

(If she still didn't give a fuck she wouldn't have fought for them and with them when she could have just run away again.)

But she has already created new relations, so she goes back to those for now. It is what she is familiar with in this timeline. Does that mean she will never contact the guardians ever again? NO. Remember: James’s writing is about DETAILS, nuance. She is open to them again, and the final part of the movie shows this to us, especially her last interaction with Groot, Peter, and Nebula being friendly.

Oh, but Peter and Gamora will never be a couple again, their romance ended when she went back to the Ravengers.

… Again, if you see it this way I can’t change your mind. What I can confirm is that she doesn’t close herself to the team — especially to Peter — in the end.

When she says “I bet we were fun” it's the first time she acknowledges their former relationship without distancing herself from it. She could've said “I bet you were fun” or “I bet she was fun”, but instead she prefers to include herself with “we”. She pauses before letting go of Nowhere, stopping before entering her ship — what moves her forward is Nebula, who can see her sister’s changed attitude but still encourages her to take a step forward and go explore the galaxy, because she knows Gamora is not mature and ready yet for those feelings; just like she wasn't ready to be openly sentimental when Gamora joined the Guardians back in 2014.

And Peter is also not ready. Just like Gamora needs to find herself again and discover who she is, Peter needs too. He is lost without her after IW, we can see it during Holiday Special and in the beginning of Vol. 3 when he passes out because of alcohol abuse. Both don't know who they are in this new reality — and they will only find out with time. Time heals and reveals.

In the end, Peter doesn't have the same thought as in the begging: he doesn't want her to be who he once knew, he wants her as she is, this new version whom he still loves so much and wants to know more of. Although he wishes she could stay, he knows that she has her own time and while she learns about herself he will go do the same.

So yes, they’re not explicitly together as a couple in the final scene — neither they kiss nor make out, whatever you believe a relationship is made of — but they’ve changed and are open to one another. The last scene does not appear to me as an “I’ll never see you again”, but as a “Goodbye, see you soon”.

(Aside from all the small bits we had through the movie of a developing relationship between them; my favorite one being when Peter activates the auto-destruction code and Gamora smiles at him.)

Besides, you can't force anyone to fall in love in 48 hours!!

Yes, I also have some minor complaints about the story, but I can recognize that — with all the turbulence the characters and the production faced in the last few years — it was a satisfying end with a limited amount of time to a badass trilogy. The end is definitive but also open to future possibilities for all our favorite characters in their universe — some we might never see and it will only be to our imagination.

Again, you don't need to agree with me, but I had to do this, or else I would implode with thoughts. Thank you if read up here! My ask box is open if you want to talk more <3

[galactic-rhea]

The thing with Anakin TCW is that I try to reconcille both "versions" of Anakin, but because I keep in mind that at the end of the day, TCW is a serialized kids show, and he's also a general and in charge of a padawan so he must be really charismatic for that to work (long rambling ahead)

This show came in an era where shows ran long, with very random plots per episode and just very few that advanced "a plot", so characters that are new for the show get more development (since they were at zero), and Anakin with already three movies (technically 6 if we count the original trilogy), a mini series, and a bunch of books and comics, feels more flat for the very short narrative purposes.

The way i see it, TCW can be like seeing Anakin from someone's else eyes, like that's probably how Obi-Wan and Ahsoka and Rex saw him, cocky and sassy and fearless and daring and untouchable and cool and sometimes with anger coming from apparently nowhere, and the movies are the actual "omnipresent" look, we see how actually deeply fucked up and scared Anakin is!

TCW gives like a very pink tinted glasses view of him, a very standarized version of him, since the "otherness" that he has in the prequels was really hated (and with otherness i mean that he acts alienated and tormented, is because of the trauma, but also because he can be so easily read as neurodivergent and/or queer; movie Anakin looks like he might as well be a giant walking target for bullying, so to speak), so TCW Anakin looks like he totally would have never ever been bullied, he's the cool kid.

If I don't constantly keep on mind this is probably Ahsoka's POV, it can be a bit hard to connect, like the last episodes in TCW, when he sees Ahsoka, he's like 2 days before ROTS, and he looks so cheerful and normal and sassy, but then if you look at ROTS, he looks so tired and beaten up and just depressed after that battle. But Anakin, in AOTC and ROTS, in general, is a person that looks like doesn't even want to be there at all, he looks like he would rather turn invisible.

I don't have that many problems with Anakin in TCW except for certain arcs (looking at you clovis), because many things in the show do add to Anakin's narrative and character (or more like, pilling up even more trauma onto him for the big moment), but it's not a complete look because by the point we should see how he's dealing or coping with something the episode ends and the next episode is about something different. TCW is plot focused and there are very little "breathing" moments before the action, and is not very character focused. Which leaves the audience with the task of remembering that whatever happened in the show is another piece of the puzzle that may or may not fit perfectly with the character that was presented on the prequels.

"This episode very painfully reminds you that he was a slave, and he's angry about it, very angry...for one bit of the episode, let's go back to the fun action." It touches it, but it doesn't explore it, if you get what I mean? Like, we can only imagine if he had difficult weeks after that or how even was the conversation after all that whole mess, just as an example.

I agree that Anakin in TCW is a incomplete version of his character, because TCW focuses a lot on the Clones and Ahsoka and other little stories, however I also think it does add lots of stuff to explore, even if the show didn't explore it deeply, but touched on it.

And I understand too why it causes such a division, and why some may prefer the TCW version more, and why some may prefer only the movies version.

I mainly use the movies, and then take from TCW what I feel like it fits/makes sense for him, and shake TCW a little bit if i need to, although i still really love it : D

[batmanfruitloops]

Happy 1st Anniversary to the Batmanfruitloops!!! 🎉

Whoo! This is such an achievement, but also it's such a crazy thought that it's been a WHOLE YEAR??? It means a lot that so many other people like our au as much as we do, and even more that we've been able to make friends; we want to thank all of you new and old for joining us here to have fun and enjoy the journey of our au!

With that said, I'd like to share some old art that's "behind the scenes" stuff from out time since we started our au.

also if you've been here since these were the profile picture and banner, you're a real one;

Fun fact, I (Sarsee) don't like fruit loops, but it was the first thing I thought of to name the blog, plus it was memorable. The au name being "Batman: A New Gotham" came later! Double plus, the abbreviation is BANG and I find that coincidence just delightful.

One of favorite changes that happened out of nowhere was John's eyes changing from more round to almond. He used to look a lot more like the Telltale Joker, but I feel like his current eyes fit better with his personality in our au. This also isn't going to show up because it's file names, but I had originally wanted to call the Joker "Jbird" like Batman calls him in the Lego Batman movie. (for context, it's the scene where Joker is tied to a bunch of balloons - you know the one - and side note, I want to redraw a screenshot from that with our Joker eventually) I don't have any pictures with a "Jbird" design because I never got the idea to work, I just thought it could have been interesting considering Joker works with Batman in our au and that would put him on theme with the Batfam being flying mammals/avians.

Most of the other original designs aren't too drastic either - or at least it doesn't feel like it to me. Scarecrow and Riddler have changed a lot though. And I think the changes that came about with Fluffy joining on board were much needed (Scarecrow's costume was always done by Fluffy, but I designed him out of costume originally -I was originally making the au myself, but that didn't last long when we started yapping about ideas to one another and never stopped) She also couldn't understand how I stylized his hair, so it became puffy and unruly instead of curly and gelled back. Ed can still gel his hair if he wanted to, just for special occasions.

Some old sillies as well from Fluffy;

we find the contrast between Batman vs. Scarecrow and Joker vs. Riddler very funny because it's so drastically different. The Joker and Riddler never really try to hurt each other, they just like to play into the dramatics and vibe while still on their separate sides. Batman and Scarecrow want to tear one another's throats out and watch them suffer for it because they have no idea what's going on in their heads.

with the villain!joker timeline, there's an alternate version of the Goon squad (Dork Squad + Joker) where it's Harvey instead of the Joker. Or as well, there can be all five of them. Harvey is the only person who can scruff Jo like the gremlin he very much is and he'll just let it happen.

I don't know if this will show up in the comic anymore, but at one point the Joker was going to refer to Scarecrow and the Riddler as Samhain and a leprechaun because they're both partially Irish - couldn't really be that specific with voice claims, and they'd be offended

and lastly, Ed gets cranky when he's tired

Batman and Riddler are the only two to get digital references at the time and man, do I much prefer how streamlined the final ones look. I mean, what was the dingy brown I had behind Batman? For a split second, Ed's coat was almost purple, but thankfully, Fluffy convinced me otherwise and suggested his shoes be purple. This is also before his vest, and now there's an in story reason for why he doesn't have it in the beginning. Also look at how skinny and tall Ed looked!! (he was still short, he's not allowed to be tall in our au)

That's all I have for now, we'd love to hear any thoughts/memories/etc. in the comments!

Love, Sarsee and Fluffy, your batmanfruitloops creatures

[fabuloustrash05]

Some of My TMNT Hot Takes (PART 2) 🔥

Warning: More Opinions

Part 1 Here

I don’t like that in Mutant Mayhem Donnie is not a “science guy” but instead is more of an anime and pop culture geek. I’m not against him being an anime fan (I love anime too) but I wish we saw more of his science and being a tech genius side instead of him just liking stereotypical “nerdy stuff”. If that makes sense.

I don’t like the Punk Frogs (any version).

The 87 crossover episodes in the 2012 series (as much as I did enjoy them & are great episodes) should not have happened. They leave no real impact or development to 2012’s overarching story and just waste time. These episodes could’ve covered more important things that 202 was desperately lacking like like character exploration and character dynamic development. It was just nostalgic fanservice. The arc in S5 specifically would’ve work better as a movie instead of a 3-4 episode arc in the (most likely non canon) final season.

Shinigami being Mikey’s second love interests ruins her character a bit (for me personally). That was a pointless decision that did NOT need to happen. She would’ve been our first recurring female character to not be a love interest, but nope!

People are allowed to like/ship Donnie x April in ROTTMNT (this is coming from someone who’s not crazy about April being shipped with the Turtles).

I ship Yuichi with 2012 Leo more than Rise Leo (still ship Rise Leoichi, but I just think 2012 Leoichi is way more interesting, plus 2012 Leo deserves a good love interest).

The humans in Mutant Mayhem look ugly af (I know that was probably an intentional design choice but still. It looks bad.)

I hate Raph x Casey (any ver). I’ve stated in part one that I don’t like Raph (any version) being in a romantic relationship with human characters and yes, that meant him with Casey. Not only that but Raph and Casey being a couple ruins their whole dynamic and iconic friendship I love so much. I’m all for friends to lovers but they are a line that should not be crossed. Not every friendship needs to turn romantic.

2012 Karai’s hair looks bad.

Fans often over exaggerate Rise Donnie’s character and badly mischaracterize him in fanfics and fan comics to the point it makes him feel like he’s an entirely different character.

Shinigami should have been revealed to be a villain.

Rise Donnie was just as mean to his brother as fans claim 2012 Raph was to his. Yes, they both do love their families and I’m NOT saying either of them are abus!ce (they’re not), but fans praising Rise Donnie for doing similar things fans criticize/hate 2012 Raph for doing just makes them hypocrites.

Venus does NOT need to be in every iteration of TMNT. It gets kind of annoying when fans keep on saying that she should be in all the other iterations when in truth her presence would not make sense based on the already established canon story. The only (recent) version of TMNT where I think her being included would’ve fit the best and deserved to make her comeback in is ROTTMNT.

The side plot of 2012 Karai being mutated and later getting brainwashed by Shredder was a waste of time and the most boring arc in the series.

2012 April, Donnie and Casey being in a poly relationship does not fix anything with their problematic dynamic and massive flaws with one another. I'm not saying you can't ship all three of them together, you do you! Idc But in reality their relationship would be a train wreck, that's why I personally don't ship 2012 Capriltello.

Renet is probably one of the most powerful allies the Turtles have in the 2012 series.

Rise Donnie would NOT hate 2012 April. He’d go crazy over her psychic powers and want to study them to help her explore them more.

From what I've seen so far, Leo x Usagi seems like the only GOOD ship in the 2003 series (this hot take might change tho).

Raph had the best character arc and development in the 2012 series and changed the most out of the four brothers. Next would be Leo. With Mikey and Donnie have little development (or none at all sadly).

[kairiscorner]

(reblogs are greatly appreciated, it helps get my content out there! if you guys like what you see, please reblog it too <:D)

what would it be like to be miggy's sole friend? (aside from my bbg lyla)

imagine being one of my miguel's only friends in middle school. like he was a bullied kid in middle school (i think he was in middle school in the '92 comics, correct me if i'm wrong) and like, i think our miguel (movie miggy) wouldn't really give a shit if you were his only friend, he just wanted it to be you.

like if you asked him why he didn't try to make other friends if he knew you would be there to defend him if someone tried to mess with him, he'd just shrug and admit that he doesn't really want anyone else. and if you'd follow up that question with another why, he... he wouldn't know himself why. he just feels better and at peace knowing you're all he has to call as his 'friend'.

he wasn't shy nor anti-social either, he did talk to people and make connections, but he never really went to anyone else but you to talk about problems, unburden burdens you both never realized you were carrying, and just... be yourselves around each other.

like miggy has to put up fronts, he always did, he always does. even as an adult, if you chose to stay by his side, you would always see different sides of him, it was never just one or two versions, but a whole spectrum of miggy that you witnessed and grew up with.

and he appreciates how you understand him despite you not agreeing with him a lot, like that shit comforts him, how you have tried to see things his way. and despite them not working/being agreeable for you, he likes how you at least try, for him, to see how he sees it.

you also know how much he hates other people telling him what to do, that riles him up the most. he hates not having things in control because when things aren't in control, nobody, not even him, is in control of themselves. you don't encourage his no nonsense behavior, you want him to have fun, but most of all, you are the only person who successfully convinces him to take a damn break and relax for once.

he has joked to you before how many couples he knew lasted long because they knew each other since high school or college, since you knew each other way earlier than that... what would you do if he proposed to you right then and there? what if he said he wanted to marry you, spend the rest of his life with you, have you remind him taking breaks, waking up in his arms in the morning, and going home with his hand in yours, ensuring you'd be safe forever as long as he was there?

"i know i'm not... the most agreeable or friendly man on this planet, but... i want to be better. and to be better, i learn from you. and the more i learn from you... i realize how much i've loved you all this time, all this time i've wanted just you and only you, that... must've been when i started falling for you, ever single part of you, it all makes my heart beat a little faster, makes me want to be someone worth loving by someone so worth it. and that someone is... you. so, what do you say?"

a/n: WHAT DO I SAY, I SAY YES BBG AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

tags !! @miguelswifey04 (him to you fr <333)

[tikiki05]

Miles and Gwen’s relationships outside of being spider people really could’ve changed the tone of the movie but alas here we are. Now I don’t read many comics, but I can speak for the recent Spider-Man PlayStation games that Miles and Ganke’s relationship is way WAYYYYY different that what Across portrayed. I’m still pretty sure it’s like this in the comics I hope but Ganke was more excited to be involved with helping Miles when he became spider man (Ganke was the biggest Spider-man Miles fan I guarantee you). And not only that, I don’t know if you know but Itsv released scrapped scenes which showed a dynamic between Miles and Ganke where Ganke also played an active role in assisting Miles in figuring out how his powers functioned and who he could be. Sadly that idea got scrapped and fast forward to 2023 and we got a Ganke that takes a complete 180 from other versions of him. It’s kinda hard not to look back at Across and then start to wonder if they just so happened to change Ganke’s role in the story just for them to push this narrative that there’s only one singular person who can truly know Miles. And the same thing can be applied to Gwen. (I’ve never read her comics throughly to know how she balances friends who do and don’t know about her second life)

I’m probably on the minority side, but I have mixed feelings about Gwen blowing up at the Mary Jane’s in the opening scene. Granted, it’s not easy to open up about about being a spider woman much let alone about all of the other spider people you learned about that live worlds away. All I’m saying is that those girls were trying to understand why Gwen wasn’t being herself which is what good friends do despite not knowing the whole truth. And I could say more stuff but this all goes back to my main thing: the writers attempting to convince the audience that both Miles and Gwen HAVE to depend on one another and that they can truly know the other is just a huge, random stretch.

Now don’t get me wrong, Miles and Gwen go through certain things that only other spider people get , but the movie is trying to convince us that in a span of a few weeks these two are attached to the hip and can’t live without one another?? The sudden jump just doesn’t make sense.

Oddly enough it could be an interesting plot line in Beyond for Miles and Gwen: Miles learning that his infatuation with Gwen led to false expectations and he views her differently (not in a bad way, but more cautiously as they have to build trust back). Gwen coming to terms that she still isn’t properly healed from when she was close with Peter and lost him. And I think understanding that Miles clearly isn’t the same person he was a year and a half ago, he’s not that amature spider man anymore and he’s grown in his ideals and aspirations and he’s allowed to make his own calls about certain situations

Good morning and thank you for the lovely ask! This has been on my mind a lot since I reblogged that one tweet.

In terms of Ganke, as I keep saying, I think it’s great that they’re trying to do something that’s different from the comics, but it continuously gets harder to support that when I keep hearing about how the comics are better!!! Like yeah, be unique, but also be good and make sense please??

The Mary Janes scene is honestly frustrating when I think back on it. I understand how hard it can be to reach out for help, cause mental blocks can prevent you from doing things that are in reality very easy, I’ve been there. But I find it so hard to sympathize with Gwen when her friends were actively reaching out to her because they were worried about her, and she loses it at them. Did they come at her with some attitude? Yes, and maybe that was unnecessary, but Gwens problems were disrupting their band time, so their upset is understandable

Ahh, this is why spider-verse Gwen is so frustrating to me as a character! They somehow made a character with struggles I absolutely relate to and who I want to feel for, but simultaneously just make her (in my opinion) extremely unlikeable and unsympathetic??? Maybe that’s just a me problem but does anyone relate?

I just don’t even know what to expect from Beyond the Spider-Verse at this point, nor what I even want from it anymore. The anticipation is killing me and I want it out now now now BUT also want the animators to work at a reasonable pace that is most beneficial to them. Cause when the animators thrive, the movie genuinely will too.

I’ve said this before as well; the movie we got with ATSV was spectacular, but if the production side of things weren’t so bad, I think it could have been even better. And the characters deserve better! Because they are good characters, I just feel they’re not reaching their full potentials under the constraints and shitty directing (lookin’ at you, Phillip) (I guess he’s not the director but still you guys get it I hope lmao)

I really wish they would stay friends too, because I want to see strong powerful friendships more often in media, especially amongst opposite gender friends so that when it’s a guy and girl, they can show audiences it doesn’t always have to be about romance. But no, they can’t do that, because the spider-verse movies are about the “love story” between Miles and Gwen, for some reason. Even though it doesn’t make sense. And right now is just a one sided unhealthy attachment caused by refusing to seek help elsewhere when it’s readily available to her (this is Gwen I’m talking about Gwen 😐)

Ah this was a long one lol, thank you so so much for the ask! Idk where else it’s happening but I’m going to an Oktoberfest today, so, have a happy Oktoberfest i guess!! 💖✨

[camilledlc]

There are many things interesting about Wade Wilson. I think if you follow my blog, you may notice that I talk about him quite a bit. Yet there are still things I wanted to expand on that I never had the occasion too. So, this post is a bit of a mess, but dedicated to all things about Wade Wilson that deserve more attention and can be really good angst point (some may be a bit triggering) :

His brain is really messy. Like, really, really messy. To the point where he himself doesn't fully understand it. If he's this unpredictable to everyone, it's because he is unpredictable to himself. He often acts on a whim, and doesn't even know why he does the thing that he does.

Almost nothing his known about his parents. The movie says he had a difficult childhood and doesn't expand on that otherwise, and the comics are confusing about it. Multiple versions of what happened to his parents co-exist, and none of them can be considered true. He himself says different things to different people, and even admitted lying about some of them. I think that he's so affected by what happened that he doesn't even want to process it, and would rather just make up lies about his parents to not have to deal with the truth, which is kinda what Nicepool said ("unresolved childhood traumas", I think).

In correlation to that, Wade is a known liar. Whether it's on purpose or not, he is unreliable and his words can't be trusted. He has lied on purpose already multiple times. But it is also said that because of how unstable he is mentally, his words can't be trusted. That also pairs with the fact that he's unpredictable even to himself. He may lie instinctively and not know why, and then have to keep up with the lies to not sound unreliable or like he doesn't trust his friends. He may also just forget what the truth is, and tell whatever he believes to be true at the moment, or just make up stories to not sound crazy. The possibilities are endless.

Still on the mentally unstable path, it is said in the comics that he has very violent outbursts because of that. He can mistreat his friends, and be really dangerous. I think we don't really see this side of Wade in the movies other than when he is verbally mean to his friends, but his outbursts causing him to be physically abusive towards his loved ones could be an explanations as to why he tends to push the people he loves away. He puts them in danger constantly, and yet he selfishly wants to keep them close because he is scared of being alone.

And that's another point. His greatest fear is to be truly and utterly alone, which makes sense for a person like Wade. He doesn't get attached easily, only has a small group of people he truly cares about, etc. Besides, he knows he is often considered 'unlikable' because of his personality. He also knows that he is dangerous for them. So it makes sense for him to be scared that his friends will eventually realize that they are better off without him, and leave him alone. Like Vanessa in the third movie. It's especially sad to know that it is also said that he is hard to work with because he annoys his teammates too much.

Out of all the characters, he is probably the one who attempted suicide the most. We can see that during the second movie, of course, but also in the comics, where he even tried before his regenerating factor. I definitely thinks he finds this ironic that someone who wants to die as much as he does can't.

He can still feel pain. That one is talked about pretty often so I won't expand much on it, but it is worth mentioning that while he is invincible and has a high pain tolerance, he can still feel stuff.

In the comics, he often talks to himself through the 'boxes'. It's like narration boxes, where on is white and one is yellow, and the three of them often talks to each other. I might do an entire post about them, so I won't expand on it too much again.

Sorry, this post was a bit of a mess, but it’s mostly just interesting stuff about Wade that I think we should talk about more because he’s such a great and complex character.

[blue-devil-of-the-lord]

I wanna know your opinions on the differences between the movie nightcrawlers and the comic/cartoon nightcrawlers sooo bad!

The difference between charismatic, almost flirty comics Kurt and then both movie versions being more shy and clumsy(?) is so interesting to me! I love them all very much, but I think the difference in portrayals being very divided between live action/drawn is definitely telling somehow.

Ilysm!! ♡♡

That is a very good question, especially when remembering the fact how much I write about him. Before I start though, I've not read every comic, just a couple of them so I wouldn't necessarily call myself an expert but I am quite happy to answer anyway.

I'm starting with the Kodi's Kurt.

I've not seen these movies that much and therefore I don't really remember that much about it, but from what I remember Kurt is generally in all the movies rather quite or at least stays in the background? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't really have a big problem with it because he's a kid and just out of a fighting circle (especially in his first movie) so it's understandable that he's a bit withdrawn into himself. He also goes out with the others and tries to enjoy himself even though he doesn't know a lot so I think that speaks for him.

However especially the after thee first movie with him, I just really wished they would've shown him to be a bit more extroverted and flirty. It would've been nice to see his developement into coming to terms with himself and enjoying being himself, so that was a kinda missed opportunity there.

I don't really have a problem with this interpretation because he's still a kid (if I remember correctly he was an adult in the comics) but as the movies progress (even though he was just in two if I remember correctly) I just wish we wuld've seen more of him. On the other hand, he wasn't the "main focus" of the movies so I get why the directors didn't put much thought into it, even when I don't like it.

Now onto Alan's Kurt. At first you gotta know, that I prefer this version over Kodi's version and I love him in general so I'm really sorry if it comes off as biased.

We didn't have much screen time with this Kurt, especially since he only appeared in one movie which makes it kind of difficult and definetely more difficult than with Kodi's Kurt.

This Kurt was not forced to fight other mutants while other were betting on him, however he was controlled to kill the president so especially in the scene in the church he's probably still in shock, confused, hurt etc. However he's a bit more confident than Kodi's Kurt in my opinion.

With this Kurt they put the focus a lot on his faith and his religion (at least I think so) and the characters he usually had a lot of chemistry with were either not in the movie or in scenes with him or were srangers to him. You have to remember that this guy was just mind controlled into doing horrible things, so of course he's not suddenly going around flirting and being all charming but I think they tried a little bit of it with Storm in the plane scene.

In general he's still more reserved but more confident than Kodi's Kurt though not nearly as confident as comic/cartoon Kurt but I feel like this may have to do with the situation. While he's on screeen he's either hurt, trying to kill someone (not his choice), other try to kill him or rescuing kids from being killed. so, of course he's not that outgoing and flirty.

He has small moments where he's maybe a little bit cheeky e.g. offering to "take a closer look" to Rogue regarding Magneto etc. or when everybody is talking to the president and he's sitting there, waving as if he hasn't tried to kill that guy not even a week ago, but I think it has mostly to do with the setting of the movie.

In the newer movies Kurt was able to spend time with people his age, however Alan's Kurt didn't have that opportunity, due to being on the move constantly. Maybe if we had gotten another movie with him, he would've been more flirty or open but I'll guess we'll never know.

In general I don't have a big problem with him being more quiter [especially with Alan] all things considered, but I still wish they wouldn't have gone down that road completely, especially when talking about Kodi's Kurt. I also haven't read so many of the comics and X2 was the first time I even got to know Kurt so maybe I'm just used to that version, my "first version". I don't know.

This is just my opinion and everybody is allowed to have their own take on it, this is just mine.

[vdragon-creations]

TMayNT Day 13: Best Don

Day 13 of @tmaynt Prompt: Best Don!

Oh my sweet, how I've waited for this day! It should probably come as no surprise to anyone who fallows me or anyone who saw my Day 1 entry that Donnie is my favorite turtle! Hands down, no contest!

But here comes the hard part. Choosing my favorite! Gunna be honest, it's a very hard decision. Each Donnie has a quality to them that I just adore! Intelligence! I don't like to think of myself as that smart, at least not in the way Donnie is! And I love me some soft nerdy types! And when it comes to personality, it gets even harder to pick, because literally ALL of them are just precious.

87 is smart but a bit of a dork! 2003 is...goals. Sweet, kind, has a tiny bit of spice to him, and still has the skills to pay the bills! 2007, while not having much screen time, is a reliable man.

IDW, tbh, I've yet to read the comics in full, but from what I can see, he seems a lot like a mix of both 2003, 2007, and 87 Don. As in, while he's a little more softspoken then the others, he can still hold his own in a fight! And despite having been through some clearly otherworldly shit, he's a skeptic when it comes to magic. But I love the way they wrote him! (And his death scene still makes me cry! And seeing him still deal with pain from that incident is just *Chef's kiss*!)

2012....well...I don't have much to say about him. Frankly he's my least favorite out of the bunch, and all because the writers really wanted to play fanfic writer and they leaned whyyyyy too hard into the nerd stereotype. Resulting in making him borderline creepy to April. (Not that she's perfect either because goddess on a stick I'm not getting into that today.) The one thing I'll give him is that his sarcasm in this one made his very funny to hear in banter, and I apricate that they were trying to do more then just change the skin colors to make the boys stand out from one another. (But guys...really....the gap in the teeth was just not necessary..)

The Bayverse Donnie was one that had to grow on me a little, cause I'm part of the crowed that thought they looked a bit rough. But I agree that that's kinda the point, they're mutants. They more then likely would be a little rough looking irl. But after aa bit, he does start looking pretty cute anyway! And his voice is on par with 2003, in that he just sounds so sweet! I wanna hug him! (PLUS, THE FUCKER IS 6'8"! I'M 5'3"! And I do have a weakness for taller dudes. Bonus if they wear glasses! :3)

Now, for Rise. I was once part of the Cowaboomer crowed that thought that since RISE was so different from the other versions, it was there for ruined. I've since watched it, and the movie, and if anything, I've proven that I no longer think this way! RISE Donnie tho...he had to grow on me. At first I really didn't like him. His personality was such a stark contrast from all the other versions that it was almost like he was a whole new character! And with the art style of RISE being so different, his design was quite a jolt too. (The eyebrows are...a choice.) But after a while, that smug fucking smile had me feeling a type of way. The way he'd make me laugh was starting to become infectious! And the next thing I knew, I fell for this version too! Pretty hard I might say. And while 2003 Donnie is the sweetest bean to ever grace my screen, RISE became the living definition of the meme "I'm a luxury few can afford!"! And I love him!

After that, we had the batman cross over that brought us another Donnie! Once that I'm happy didn't lean too heavy on the other versions. He looked a little like 2012, but was like a gentle mix or 2003 and Bayverse! He also got a lot more lines and personality in that movie! (As well as a broken arm! RIP)

Then Mutant Mayhem showed up, and oh my god if he isn't the same insufferable anime fan I was when I was a teen! He made me laugh, and was still an adorable little dork!

And then we have Fortnite Donnie, who...i gotta be honest, I don't play Fortnite. So I'm not sure if he or the others get much of a personality or story outside of the same story of the turtles that we all know by now. So i can't judge him based on personality. But...I do like his design. Tho I will continue to say Fortnite had NO RIGHT to make him THAT damn fine!

In the end, I love all Donnies! Some more then others, but they all mean something to me! And it was hard to choose! but in the end, I chose the two that had the most influence on me!

[canmom]

What happened in the nimona movie?

I'm gonna assume you know the comic? Spoilers for both comic and movie follow!

I said in my Animation Night post that it broadly keeps the same premise and character dynamics, but actually on watching it they changed a lot of that too.

The movie is structured around a sort of Dishonored-like plot where Ballister, a commoner turned knight in a sci-fantasy kingdom, is framed for regicide and has to go on the run. Movie!Ballister is a very anxious and weak character who's constantly stumbling around in Nimona's wake. In contrast, Comic!Ballister comes across as older, an established 'villain'; he accepts Nimona as a sidekick almost immediately and falls into a protective, even parental role...

The movie's version of the setting has a walled city that lives in fear of monster attacks, when in fact the only 'monster' is Nimona, who was treated unjustly in the distant past. The movie's Institute are something like nobles, royal guards and would-be monster slayers. In the comic they're a much more overtly sinister organisation, some kind of shadowy state agency with a hand in weapons development. The whole walled city angle doesn't exist at all. Goldenloin is characterised not as a rube who is deceived, but someone who is willing to compromise with power...

There's also a lot more drama between Ballister and Ambrosius, with an inciting incident where Ambrosius lashed out an Ballister in a duel and removed his arm. Ballister ends up playing the villain due to this disability. The film does have Ambrosius cut off Ballister's arm for much less selfish motives and the arm matters less in general, it's played more for jokes.

Comic!Nimona for her part is still gung-ho for violence, but not quite so stuffed full of quippy movie dialogue. She is carefree, but you get more of a feeling that she is naive and overconfident, and less of a feeling of 'why does she need Blackheart again?' Also, while her principal conflict in the film is loneliness and ostracisation, the comic plays her a bit differently: she bristles at kindness and her big trauma has to do with people who make a show of trying to help her and let her down or try to exploit her.

The comic ends on a more bittersweet note. We do have Nimona turning into a big rampaging monster, but she doesn't get saved by Ballister making a big public gesture to reach out, nor does she carry out any sort of grandiose heroic sacrifice that changes the opinion of the public. Another contrast: in the comic, the Institute is discredited for being a bunch of shady evil science fuckers, and it's implied they are soon to be overthrown; in the movie, they remain in power even as the kingdom's founding myth is disproven; it seems that the Director was the only really bad one.

Indeed, in the comic, there's no convenient way for Nimona to prove herself to the hostile public. Ballister is the one that kills Nimona's monster form, choosing his moral code over their connection and, to one side of her, way replicating the pattern of betrayal that characterised her life - and though another part of Nimona survives, she moves on from Ballister. Nimona in the comic is able to be a much more ambiguous character in general. There's an interesting penultimate scene where she uses her shapechanging powers to probe what Ballister thought about her...

As an ending, it is a much less triumphant note than the movie's - and imo, much more effective for that. It fits the comic's general tone of weariness, hurts that can't so easily be healed. But I guess they decided that would be too upsetting for the kids!

The comic definitely is of its time, it's got a lot of the kind of 'whee! science' stuff that was really popular in webcomics of that era (think Dresden Codak, Girl Genius). I'll readily admit that the setting of the comic is kept very vague and some of the plot threads, like the whole jaderoot/poisoning thing, are really weak and I don't miss them. Even so... overall I thought the movie tells a much more conventional story, and ends up losing a lot of the characterisation and tone that made the comic compelling. Rereading the comic today, I'm struck by how many subtle ways it works better than the movie! In an adaptation it is inevitable that somethings will be lost or changed, but the movie feels hamstrung by the needs of being a 2010s American kids' movie, and even more so by being a 2010s movie released in 2023.

There are some touches in the movie I do like. The sci-fantasy setting with its mix of high tech and medieval is fun, and they got me with some of the jokes. On an animation level it's interesting: the way the characters move is very exaggerated, full of extreme poses and squash and stretch. It's something that historically CG films have struggled with, and a massive difference from the comic's very reserved, Hark! A Vagrant-like style. But it actually felt a bit grating and overacted, particularly in the first act... even so it does lead to some fun, kinetic action and musical sequences.

Still, I'm glad for Stevenson's sake that the movie finally got finished. And like, for all my frustrations with 'representation' as a paradigm, it is really a strange feeling to see an animated kids' movie like this wearing its gayness on its sleeve, in a way that would have been unthinkable just ten years ago. Nimona's trans allegory is laid on pretty thick in the movie, more so I think than the comic. It ends up feeling awkwardly didactic in the vein of Steven Universe, but still... hopefully what this represents is like a crude step towards something more interesting down the line. For now these mainstream movies are still stuck on 'look, gay' and 'don't do a prejudice', but maybe that lays the groundwork for more complex relationships.

Not sure what answer you were looking for with this question anon, but that's basically my thoughts on Nimona the movie ;p

[spiderpussinc]

I don’t think it’s very fair for you to try and knock others from reading Miguel’s OG run because truthfully that’s the only place you’re going to get his full character since every run after that is just “Let’s place him in different time scenarios to fix other people’s problems”. I’ve read ur reasonings and some of the issues I just don’t see and that’s coming from someone who’s ALSO half Hispanic and had similar family experiences. Idk I guess comic Miguel is rlly important and relatable to me and you shouldn’t turn others away from having that potential connection too. :/

NAH LOL it is *not* the only place to get his character truthfully -- his character is not consistent between runs, or between comic and movie! Not even Pdavid's runs have an unified version of Miguel since he just becomes an author self-insert after one point. The way Pdavid writes '92 Miguel - Gabriel is also shamelessly almost the same as he wrote Bruce Banner - Rick Jones. (another series where he ended up being pushed off the book after he started making really weird decisions; and notice these last two are white guys, which is how pdavid depicts Miguel all the time.)

I haven't even told people to not read them. In multiple posts i say 'read the first ones to see how it is, stop when you get annoyed, look up summaries, don't feel obligated to treat it as canon because it isn't.' If anyone feels threatened by this they should examine where that defensiveness is coming from.

I'm gonna be real with you that's like saying "the only way to REALLY understand Miles Morales is to read his ultimates run." You know, the one where his mother gets eaten alive by Venom, his dad thinks he's at fault for killing her and nearly beats him with a cane, where the closest thing he has to peter is a clone named jessica drew, and that eventually gets completely retconned in a universe explosion so main universe Miles can be rewritten. Do you remember seeing any of the things above in ITSV? Would you call them *the only real way to fundamentally understand Miles as a character?*

I keep seeing the rhetoric that 'real fans' have to subscribe to the very first script of these characters and that somehow enjoying their ATSV versions is fake-stanning and that is just... not true. That's not how comics work. Our most iconic, definitive, memorable traits for MANY of these superheroes have come from subsequent comic runs, rewrites, feats of adaptation and the interaction between fanwork-becoming-canon. Even uncle Ben's 'power and responsibility' schtick is NOT an original part of Peter's first draft. That came from re-imaginings and rewrites.

I'm really, truly not a fan of the argument that 'relating to parts of a character' completely absolves the text from criticism. It's not a good comic. It barely tries to be latino rep and frankly, I'm not going to praise it for just placing a label on him and doing nothing with it. I don't care for this white man's truth. It's racist and creepy and I should be paid reparations for having to read a storyline where the same girl gets paired up with two different brothers and then their father just to end up getting killed for a sexier token love interest. I am constantly frustrated by the argument that new fans should be forced to read it and potentially get turned away from comics forever; it's one of the worst offerings you could give them. 90's Marvel and DC are a public fandom joke and nearly led the market into bankruptcy!!!!! (Marvel filled for loss in 1996. IT WAS BAD. That's part of why the whole 2099 line went up in flames! The money was going down the drain.)

I've been a comic reader for a long time and I just can't give them blissful innocence passes like that. The current editor-in-chief at Marvel did yellowface and pretended to be a japanese man for years to write some shitty superhero weeb comics with no accountability whatsoever. He still has a job. RUNNING the company!

And here's the thing: I like Miguel too. I have a shitty family and I empathize with that but I KNOW he deserves much better than to be confined by white people's scripts and fetishes. I *want* him to have a chance, multiple chances even, to be completely rewritten and remolded by latine voices without the need for them to constantly refer or tie back into that white man's work; It is our right just as any other.

ATSV throws away most of Miguel's baggage, and straight up refuses to refer to the weird indepth sludge pdavid had going on; the artbook doesn't mention these first comics or most of his runs, they actually talk about other groundbreaking sci-fi concept work and the idea of basically rebuilding the landscape from scratch, and I am deeply thankful they do that. One of the biggest themes of the movie *is* that the idea of comic canon is fraught and full of holes, and that we should subvert it into joyful and honest expressions of these characters' cultures. These are movies that begin with the Comics Code Authority stamp, a censorship marker that among other things explicitly prohibited the positive depiction of pro-civil rights narratives and homosexual relationships, and actively turned their nose at protagonist black characters — & proceed to rip it to shreds. That's what we should be doing!

[ghostflowerhotpotch]

I watched ATSV again in theaters and noticed some interesting things:

Gwen's dad at the beginning wears a Vision Academy sweater. Not only that, he's in the gymnastics group. This means that Vision not only exists on Earth-65, George has entered it. Maybe it explains how Gwen knew how to blend in so well. And that she chose to take ballet lessons because of her father.

When Miguel's universe was falling apart, not only he but Peter B. and other spiders were there. It gives extra weight to the whole Society thing. It's not just a sad story a random guy told, it was a catastrophe witnessed by several of them. I don't blame them for believing so much.

Peter and Gwen have known each other since they were 4, assuming she's 16 and George's speech after his death says he's known Peter for 12 years.

A spider person having their Sense Triggered when someone they love is not themselves in danger is not new. Miles felt his father falling at the beginning of the film. Pav felt Gayatri on the bus. But what is abysmal is that Gwen's felt between dimensions. In all other cases, they were from people present in the same space and dimension. So that says a lot only about the love she feels for Miles (and also about her spider sense.)

Oh these are interesting!

I actually notice that shirt on my last viewing! I cannot believe it took me this long to realize.

Funnily enough, my first thought when I saw this is that Gwen was Vision's and this was a shirt in support of her. But considering how faded this looks, your explanation makes more sense since I really doubt Visions Academy has lower classes than middle school.

Though not gonna lie, I found funny the idea that the visions in Gwen's world may be just another run-of-the-mill school, just to appear in Miles's world and be like "why did he get the nice version?"

May keep that hc regardless.

Oh I knew Peter was there from the first viewing, what I didn't realize was about the different spiders!

Let's see who he can spot.

Julia Carpenter is here! I am not really familiar with her character (I don't read comics, for now at least,) but hey, nice to see they are bringing some classics.

I'm going to assume this is Peter B, but I don't think anyone can blame me for mixing this one up if it isn't the case.

Cowboy Spidey is here!

This one we are going to wait for the HD version of this movie because I had a hard time finding a frame where I could kind of see them let alone be clear who they are.

I still need to finish that analysis, but honestly the organization as a whole works in some ways that upon reflection, not only I am not surprised they believe it, I'm more than anything horrified how no one realized how nuts the place was getting.

Good eye! I haven't noticed this one myself, and again, I had seen this movie several times. In my defense, sometimes the audio is hard to catch and I had issues catching stuff at it is. I really need to get a good version of this movie with subtitles.

But this is cool! It really goes to show how important was Peter for Gwen, they really had known each other since forever and I can't imagine not just how much it hurt Gwen losing Peter, but her needing to get used to reality of not having around after doing so for so much of her life.

Goddammit when I thought Peter and Gwen's tragedy couldn't get worse-

This one y'all know how I feel, and if you don't, here.

I still hope we get a more in depth explanation, though I wouldn't be surprised if we don't. Regardless, is undeniable how much Miles matters to Gwen, and viceversa.

Thanks for telling me this!

[weebsinstash]

Ok good you've finally seen it. What gets me in atsv (at least the version I watched) Miguel isn't even stated as having and loosing a family BEFORE he just up and leaves for that other dimension. Like dude decided he wanted a different life and a family and went and took up someone else's, instead of starting his own.

I was thinking about this last night and I eventually went back and watched the scene and it's like. Yeah bro you're right they do in fact never specify if he even had a family before

In the comics, he loses his pregnant fiance, and I, assumedly with a bunch of other people, was just kind of assuming that he had the same backstory in ATSV and it was sometime after her death that he tried a second time around. I'm assuming the canon he broke by going to another universe was HIS OWN canon: as a Spider, you are apparently supposed to lose your first love/first crush and move on, but by him jumping ship into another universe, that was breaking the rules (*cough cough* "but what if Miguel realizes being with Reader in his own universe doesn't break canon and he goes apeshit with it" *cough cough*)

But GOD wouldn't it be fucked up if it really was as literal as the way he phrased it. "I found another universe where I was happy" not "I found a universe where my family survived" is kind of sus phrasing. Like yeah bro you technically uh stole the life of a completely different person and helped raise his daughter and presumedly fucked his wife

But one thing a few people have mentioned that kind of took a while to sink in was like. Him losing that second family was RECENT. He didn't form the Spider Society until sometime after Miles became Spiderman, which he's only been wearing the mask for about a year and a half. Peter B was in the flashback where Miguel lost his second family, so like. It's literally been less than two years since Miguel accidentally broke canon. This man has some piping hot FRESH TRAUMA like he's probably still in a stage of grief???

Like I understand he's an antagonist but I'll be legit angry if he becomes like monstrously evil and it becomes "oh no we gotta defeat miguel" in the third movie because his trauma and his actions are completely understandable, like he could be an antagonist but he better not be like Final Boss. Like yeah yeah "he's technically killing people by not letting people break canon" but I mean as far as he's concerned, for all that he knows, what the evidence shows and what he's lead to believe, saving one person could potentially kill an entire universe and destabilize others so like. YEAH it sucks but no one should have to explain the math. Like the man literally had a small child he was helping raise literally vanish in his own arms as she cried "dad help" and people are like "UGH MIGUEL IS EVIL" like bro at the WORST he is obsessed with making up for his sins, dude isn't DELIBERATELY tryna cause shit. Like when you really get into analysis mode you can completely understand why he's so angry at Miles, Miguel was literally chanting "no puedo mas" ie "I can't anymore" at the concept of another hole being torn in the multiverse, like he's literally shouting and throwing shit around because for him it's "oh great here we fucking go, tons and tons of people will die if I don't get this under control, when does it end, how do i fix this"

His line on top of the train really kind of cements it, where he's all "and I'm the only one who's been keeping everything together" because he's not saying that from some source of narcissism, he's BURDENED by this, he's TRAPPED by this, but he feels a responsibility and a duty to make up for what he did. The man is essentially using his role leading the Spider Society as a punishment for breaking canon.

"Miguel is selfish" "Miguel is evil" bro Miguel is literally just one really really bad accident away from straight up killing himself, like tearing his own hair out as he beats his head into a wall. Miguel is like when you're so extremely stressed out that when you dropped your fresh toast on the floor jelly-down you legit contemplated suicide "because why can't even one thing go right for me". This man is hanging on by a thread but like I'm convinced the third movie will have a happy ending because it just. Doesn't feel right if it doesn't? The entire first two movies were about finding your own identity and making your own expectations and I feel like the whole canon event narrative inherently challenges what the movies stand for, so, really interested in seeing how the third movie goes, waiting will fucking kill me, and also with all the articles coming out about ATSV having insane crunch, I have a good feeling Beyond The Spiderverse is gonna be delayed. I kinda like that though because like, idk, do you guys ever get sad when a show or series ends. It's like the journey is over and then you move on and kind of forget about everything. I'm enjoying these movies and these characters and I don't mind marinating with em a little while longer

[misterxsamsa]

Analyzing the whole Jhonen thing, denying that part of it is set on Johnny, got me thinking.

Jhonen is not fooling anyone. Of course he put a lot of himself into his work, both in Johnny and the other characters (Like Devi in IFS). I don't think he had a traumatic past or anything similar, but, perhaps, had opinions to put down on a piece of paper. And over time, he just didn't see himself reflected in Johnny like he did in the beginning. At least, that's the conclusion I came to. On the one hand, I would also feel ashamed that my 19 year old version is still being read by thousands of people, who feel identified with a “part of me”. The work is no longer mine, it's not personal, it is open to everyone to identify with. Jhonen never talked about how important it is for him to draw, but come on, JtHM and IFS the main focus of the protagonists is that they lost their creativity. That's a bit of a big deal for someone who draws full time. Not only that, he cosplayed Johnny, he has the original doughboys (And I think a reverend meat? if it's not just an edited image). I can see the mixed feelings, between feeling embarrassed at your work, but it's yours, you're not going to let just anyone call it a “joke.” Making a comic just for “the laughs”, but you put a lot of yourself anyway, and not just in book and movie choices, that's not just “jokes.” I don't think this way, Jv probably doesn't either, but it's an answer I can come to. I wouldn't consider it a *extremely* personal work, but a look at 19-year-old Jhonen.

This makes me think what actual comics would be like, or in some case a movie, or series (Pls Jv i swear). He's changed a lot, surely his hurmor will prevail as always, but I'm intrigued as to what his vision of his characters would be, now 40 yo, beyond a poster of Johnny full of blood (and his rp twitter account. ).

Sorry, I may be VERY wrong. I'm not cool enough to get into Jhonen's creative brain, but try to analyze it as someone familiar with this “creating something” thing.

I used to get worried about the possibilities involving a sequel to the original comics, largely because I feel capturing the spirit of the source material perfectly is impossible. He's not 19 anymore, and thus wouldn't write Johnny with the same priorities and intentions. However, enough years have passed where I think I'd be open to something different. There's so much left unresolved by Issue #7 that a new perspective on the characters, and concepts therin might be an advantage to any sequel media. Jhonen probably understands the nuanced flaws to Johnny's character better than when he was originally writing them, so I'd imagine that hindsight would give him a much more interesting way of approaching them. That's not even mentioning characters like Tess, Dillon, or Tenna who are fountains of untapped potential. Now, I fear that if Jhonen tried to scientifically recreate the percise energy and mindset behind the original comic run, it'd just fall into some bizzare narrative uncanny valley where it's not quite right.

I'm not Jhonen, so I couldn't say definitively what direction he'd go in with Johnny, but I think a lot of his wax-poeticizing would be eradicated from his character. I know Jhonen's expressed that should he rewrite the comics, in some form, he'd want to focus on Johnny being a slave to a Lovecraftian beast more than his angst. That worries me a bit, because I actually think Johnny as a portrayal of mental illness, and his interpersonal problems, are extremely compelling. However, I fear that comprises a lot of what makes Jhonen somewhat sheepish about him as a character nowadays. That, and Jhonen's said himself that he tends not to prioritize the same things about Johnny, and his source material, that a lot of its fans do. In that specific example, he was talking about the "Where the fuck is the Bactine?!" line that got cut in a re-write he did at some point or another. Still, at least we can all agree that the Lovecraftian consumption part of Johnny's character's progression deserved way more attention than what it got for how intruiging it was.