#i can hate elriel without bringing up gwynriel

[captain-of-the-gwynriel-ship]

i love gwynriel and your answers are really convincing. but I'm confused why the hell Sarah put Azriel having some kind of involvement with Elain if gwyn and Az ended up together in the end. because we can't deny that there's something between Elain and Az, there's interest on both sides, even though it might not be simple, there's something lol. but I still don't know who Az will stay with? I don't have an opinion on that. sometimes I think Az and gwyn are endgame, other times I think they didn't get together and there might be someone else for him and someone else for gwyn, obviously. i find azriel so confusing, sarah doesn't give a lot of hints about him, it pisses me off because i love him so much. Also, I'm so sad that there is so much hate on gwyn and Elain because of the ships, if Sarah didn't put azriel with either of them, it would be a war 😂 Sarah is sharing opinions I'm scared of what she's going to do lol

This got a little long, sorry I just digressed 😅

Honestly, I was an e/riel until I read ACOSF (so I guess a total of like a week?) I thought that the whole breaking the bond to be with someone you loved thing was romantic. I thought their aestetic was cute, if not overplayed a hit. But honestly, SJM gives us a lot of clues in ACOSF to show Elain will not stay in the NC and ultimately won’t be with Az. I truly believe that ACOSF put the nail in the coffin for e/riel as endgame. However, it is important for both Az and Elain individually.

1) Az does NOT respect Elain or view her as an equal. She wanted to help with the dread trove and the moment she left the room he went against her decision. She wants to do more with her life, but the entire IC EXCEPT FOR HER MATE underestimates her.

2) Az confesses he has never thought of Elain past sexual fantasies. “He hadn’t gotten that far with his planning, certainly not beyond the fantasies he pleasured himself to.” This is again him just seeing her as a sexual object and not as an equal. 

3) throughout the bonus chapter, Azriel is CONSTANTLY saying how wrong his feelings for Elain are. The shadows tell him to go to bed because they knew Elain was waiting up for him. I’m sorry, but THAT IS NOT HEALTHY. Forbidden love is the WRONG trope for Azriel. There is a great post by @lunainfortuna linked here that goes into it with my commenting there. There is another great post by @acourtofthought that talks about the negative emotions in the BC here

4) Azriel would stifle Elain's growth in the guise of protection (as we have seen in ACOSF by not respecting her choice behind her back) and Elain will appease Azriel (as she does with her sisters) to keep the peace and allow him to do what Nesta did especially if she notes he gets upset whenever she wants to help even if it puts her at risk (call back to how he was overprotective with Mor to the point she feels guilty about making a decision on her own knowing it will upset him). That's not a couple that would compliment each other's growth or challenge each other. Neither will pull the other out of their shell and this is something I think both Azriel and Elain need because everyone around them is happy to let them be in their own head for too long.

5) Aesthetics and being nice to each other does not warrant a long-term stable and equal relationship when we actually look at them as characters and their personality and actions. Azriel, like Nesta, speaks for Elain even if he thought he was thinking in her best interests but those "best interests" are clouded by his desperation for a mate and his jealousy of Lucien and Rhys and Cassian. They weren't Elain's own words and she does have a voice to speak out on it instead of Azriel.

6) I still think ACOSF and the bonus chapter are big indicators that they don't work out as a couple. Sarah could've made them more appealing to the readers but she didn't. This was Nesta’s book, and she could have made Elain a larger part of Nesta’s recovery journey and had her spend more time with azriel. But she didn’t. You know who had the most page time in ACOSF? Nesta, cassian, gwyn, and azriel.

7) rhys is almost always right. The podcast BookTalkforBookTok consistently jokes that he is always telling the future. When he steers Azriel off of Elain before things escalate, he is truly looking out for Az’s best interest. Rhys has great intentions and poor execution. However, whenever rhys says something it’s true. If rhys thought they would be good for each other, then he wouldn’t interfere and would work something out with lucien.

8) cassian saying that Elain looks dreary in black is just SO ON THE NOSE and idk if SJM can make it any clearer. Black is the night court color, black is azriel’s color. @yazthebookish confronts this here and I couldn’t have said it better myself.

9) time and time again, SJM is asked about what the couples would do and EVERYTIME she talks about what Elain and lucien would do together. In her head, they are end game. When asked where they would go on vacation together, she said Paris. Then there was this beauty:

10) Az is still not over mor by solstice and he has a LOT of work to do before being in a relationship. He is using Elain as a distraction against his bigger issues with intimacy and belonging.

Ultimately, I have a theory that Elain tried to steer herself towards azriel and away from lucien for all the wrong reasons. Azriel, despite the wings, looks more or less human. He has rounded ears, is soft spoken, and she associates him with her human life. She meets lucien on the worst night of her life (mirroring how gwyn met Az on her worst night too just fyi), he has long hair, fae ears, a mechanical eye, and looks the part of the fae she grew up hating. HOWEVER, if she got to know the males the opposite is actually true. Despite his looks, azriel is incredibly male and fae. He follows his instincts, he growls/snarls, he is a fighter and a torturer. Lucien, on the other hand, has a very human soul. He currently even lives with Jurian and Vassa. She clings to Az because accepting lucien means accepting being fae and I think she is still in denial. I wouldn’t doubt there would be a point at the beginning of her book where she might want to jump at the opportunity to become human again. She lost the most out of the three sisters by becoming fae and she loves life. Accepting the bond means accepting being fae and this emotional and sexually charged relationship with Az is the bandaid on her gaping wound. It will only keep the bleeding at bay for so long.

Both azriel and Elain are using each other as distractions from their true trauma’s. Azriel latches onto women who are unable to give him the love he deserves. Elain is trying to keep the one human part of her she has left, the ability to choose her partner and not have it chosen for her by the cauldron.

TOG Spoiler:

After finishing TOG, I feel like chaol and azriel will be on similar love stories. Chaol had loved a girl prior to the events of throne of glass but found her in bed with Rolland, and I think this parallels to Az’s relationship to Mor. Then his next relationship was with Aelin. It was hinted at through all of TOG and before they got together in COM. Their relationship was short and brief and ended badly (I think they were officially together for like a week before shit hit the fan). This parallel’s Az and Elain. Both couples look good on paper, but lack the special spark that makes SJM couples endgame. They end up being worse for each other because of their personalities and they give into their insecurities with each other. This leads me to think that Azriel will go on a journey of introspection and emotional healing with the help of gwyn, just like chaol did with yrene. Just like yrene, gwyn has the power to heal with her invoking stones. I can go on but you get the point. When they all meet again in KOA, they are all happy for each other despite their rocky past just like I think the whole Elain/lucien/Az/gwyn group will be.

Ultimately SJM is gonna do what she is gonna do. But I for one will be incredibly disappointed if Elain and Az are endgame because I think they both deserve better. They are both good characters, but toxic together.

[freyjas-musings]

I try really hard not to say anything because I have a real life and this is my outlet to forget my stressful life for a bit ...clearly I was kidding myself if I thought this fandom is a way to relax and have a bit of fun ....

Now , after bullying a Minor aggressively over wanting to celebrate a character that belongs to Sarah J Maas that she as a fan loves.... lets clear a few things up ....

I am proud of this young girl who has been nothing but graceful and polite in the way she handled the bullying for wanting to celebrate a character she likes .... She has just as much say in wanting to celebrate a character as we all do ....

The first excuse for the outrage - that elain week was originally in April ... yes it was but it was the first week of April last year ... and nothing was announced even until the end of March this year and Gwyn week was only announced in the last week ... so unless people were planning to announce a pop up elain event with a days notice ... clearly there were no plans of having an elain week during the first week of April... that's a lie and an excuse ...

Gwyn week was announced in April since it is also a SA awareness month ... it is only fitting to appreciate a character thats been so popular and positive during that Month ... especially when her character brings comfort to so many survivors within the fandom....

The second excuse - that it was organised by a person who ships Elain and Lucien.... Now this is low and disgusting .... what makes you think these people are wrong wanting to see Elain with her mate ??? Clearly you all haven't gotten her POV ... so what makes you so sure that it is wrong ... the character probably has reservations I get that ... but its not like he has forced himself on her ... Canon suggests he has given her space and time ... and clearly you all are not writing the series... So your argument that its Wrong is silly ...

Also, Azriel literally smothered Elain and disrespected her choice to help with the scrying .... His thoughts in the POV bonus chapter were clearly misogynistic and disgusting.... I love him but he needs intense therapy ... He literally treated Elain like an object that he wants to taste once .... if anything shipping them and then calling the rest of us misogynistic is a joke and shameful ... get over yourselves... that pairing is just toxic for anyone who has basic reading comprehension... yet most people have never lashed out at that fandom group for being anti feminist..... and anti elain .... if u r allowed to ship them then eluciens are allowed to ship them just as much .... you have a problem?? Suck it up ... we all are ...

Third excuse for outrage .... Gwynriels are the reason elain gets hate, hence we are not allowed to celebrate the character??? Have you people lost it ??? Do you lack grey matter in your brains??? Elain getting hate has nothing to do with the Gwynriel pairing .... a character is not defined by which person she needs to end up with ... it might be a difficult concept for most of you to grasp but anti elriel is not anti elain ... but given how Gwyn's character has been butchered and continued to be butchered to make Elriel more palatable.... I am not surprised they think everyone's like them ... No ....

There are people who don't like Elains character... for multiple reasons of their own ... its as simple as them not participating... there are just as many who don't like Lucien or azriel ... stop gatekeeping characters as plot points to ships alone ... its silly and exhausting...

So the outrage was just a tantrum thrown by a bunch of adults who lack basic maturity ... now, you want to celebrate Elains week in September as well ... go for it ... have as many as you want ... who said there can only be one week ... people who want to participate will do so ... Elriels ... you guys could have still done that without throwing that ugly tantrum and no u cannot dictate who can and cannot participate....

You want it to be a closed event then call it a closed event exclusive for the elriels ... u can't say its Elains week but gwynriel and elucien shippers can't participate... although if you are saying that it speaks volumes about the quality of people on your side isn't it??

Same with Azriel week you guys want to have 2 weeks celebrating Azriel have 2 weeks ... participation is optional ... do what suits you but do it with dignity ... without stepping on anyone else's toes ...

Just find other ways to keep yourselves happy rather than by throwing childish tantrums and with performative outrage ... baseless and absolutely needless... None of this will confirm or manifest any ships ... what's sunk has sunk ... no amount of outrage and bullying can salvage the wreckage...

Please get a life everyone ....

[julemmaes]

singer of my heart - nightmares

prompt: Az singing to Gwyn when she has a nightmare and it is the only thing that calms her down

warnings: mentions of SA, death

A/N: hoping these won't be the usual warnings, here it comes the first one shot of Singer Of My Heart, my new collection of Gwynriel stories. Many of the people in my taglist might not be really fond of this ship, so if you only comment to say just how much you hate anything that's not Elriel, I ask you not to:D

Word count: 3,263

Gwyn instantly awoke to the dim light of the ever-burning candles in the kitchens of the Sangravah temple. The din hit her immediately afterwards. She could hear the screams of her priestess friends, felt the sharp metal of her enemies cutting through flesh and blocking out those heartbreaking cries. She could distinguish the voices of the people who had lived with her all her life. She knew what was happening. She had been in that place before, that same night, so few years before. They were coming.

She looked down, fixing her eyes on the bright, wide-open eyes of the little girl whose hand she was clutching. Her heart clenched even tighter in her chest and she tried to clear her thoughts before Hybern's soldiers reached them. If she hurried, maybe this time she would be able to get in with them. Maybe she could get to safety, escape the carnage.

She looked at the passage in the wall, where the last of the children had now entered, and let go of little Sankora's hand. The child wailed, shaking her head, but Gwyn had no time for such things, she had to make sure she was safe. They were coming, they were coming.

The footsteps and screams were getting closer by the second, louder and louder behind the large wooden door that separated them from what she knew was certain death. She pushed the little one through the trap door, ordering one of the older children to run as fast as they could down into the catacombs, hiding as best they knew until someone came for them.

Sankora had just disappeared behind the wall when Gwyn heard Hybern running towards her. They were coming.

Knowing what was about to happen, she let go of a throaty noise. She wanted to escape with the children, she knew she could, but her body didn't move until it was too late and she had only time to throw a rug over the trap door and place the table right in front of it so it was no longer visible.

She had just turned to face the opening when the door swung open, slamming into the wall with such force that the pots and pans hanging from the nails shook. Gwyn held her breath, her legs ready to finally run, following what her brain was begging her to do, but the commander saw her and his nostrils flared as he caught her scent.

A creepy smile appeared on the man's face and Gwyn felt the hairs on her arms rise.

She knew what was coming.

And from the looks the guards were giving her, it was as if they, too, had been there before. It was as if they were all actors, doomed to relive that night every time she closed her eyes.

Gwyn shifted her gaze to her sister, to the other priestesses, to return her eyes to the commander. She tried to stand straighter, not to let on.

When the man spoke, she felt her stomach churn so hard she was afraid she would vomit.

"Where are the little girls?" he asked, taking a step towards her. Gwyn took one back, her breath caught in her throat still. "Where are the girls?" he repeated, reaching a hand up to her face, smiling as he took a strand of her hair and curled it around one finger.

When rough fingertips brushed the skin of her cheek, Gwyn closed her eyes.

"They took the mountain road to go get help," she murmured, trying to sound more confident than she actually was.

The guards laughed behind the commander. He grinned, leaning towards her so far that she could smell his breath, felt the air penetrate her soul. She would never forget the alcohol-heavy scent of that beast. "You're lying." he whispered, cupping her face completely and tightening his grip on her head, crushing her ear. Gwyn whimpered, a sound between a sob and a cry of pain, and he laughed. "I can feel your fear," he continued in a louder voice, "you're lying and if you don't tell me the truth soon-" he clicked his tongue, violently pulling his hand away from her delicate face and jerking her forward as her hair got caught in his armour. Gwyn let out a scream of pain, but the sound was choked off when she heard someone else wailing. Catrin looked into her eyes, only pure anger and determination on her face.

Gwyn felt the wave of shock hit her in one breath and felt her knees giving way beneath her.

She knew what was coming.

She knew, as did her body.

She felt the commander ordering her to tell him the truth again. Threaten her. She heard him promise he would kill her sister if she did not speak. She heard the sound of the sword being drawn from its sheath. She heard the final warning and heard the screams as her sister's head rolled before her eyes.

But she did nothing.

It was useless.

She had tried so many times to change the outcome. She had tried so hard to save everyone.

She didn't move from her spot on the floor, her face wet with silent tears, when the commander moved Catrin's decapitated corpse with one foot and bent down to her level and without taking his stare from hers, said to his guards, "Go to work on them."

She heard the cries of her companions, but did not react. It was meaningless.

The smile the commander gave her made her brain scream to run, but it made no sense.

"That one is mine," he spat.

She felt something caress her neck, call her name. She turned her head slowly as the commander took her by force and two other guards pinned her against the table. She felt the same gentle caress on the exposed skin of her face and then all black as the shadows took over.

***

Gwyn woke up screaming, clawing at her chest so that air could flow directly into her lungs.

The figure of the commander she had come to appreciate and trust was too similar to that of her nightmare. The title both men bore was all too equal for Gwyn to realise that Cassian posed no real threat.

When Nesta tried to approach as well, she only screamed louder and the broken sound that came from her throat made her friends curse.

Gwyn tried to gasp for air, failing miserably between sobs and spasms, and it only got worse when Cassian knelt in front of her on the bed, placing one leg on the mattress and shifting the weight of his body towards her.

His outstretched hands to help her up, to see if she needed him, was just another trap in the eyes of the girl who still believed she was trapped in the nightmare.

Gwyn closed her eyes, clutching the blanket in her hands so tightly that the bones rattled in her fingers.

Get out. Get out. Get out-

And a moment later the mattress shifted beneath her once more and a low growl filled the room.

She let out a sigh of relief, of freedom, as she let herself fall back onto the pillows, opening her eyes now tired of struggling, knowing full well what the sound meant.

The Shadowsinger stood beside her bed breathing heavily as he held a sword and kept his gaze fixed on the pair before him as if he had never seen them before. As if they personified his worst nightmare.

Cassian remained lying on his back on the floor as he looked at his brother with wide, confused eyes. Nesta, crouched beside her mate, was shouting at Azriel.

What, Gwyn could not have known, for to her ears all sounds came muffled.

The only voice she heard clearly was that of the dark shadows dancing around her, asking her what had happened, if she was hurt.

Gwyn found the strength to turn her body towards the other wall, whimpering softly as the cold of the room hit her bare back. At that faint cry, another menacing growl made its way into the room, threatening anyone who would even touch Gwyn again that things would not end well for them.

She heard Nesta retort that if she heard her scream again, she would bring Ataraxia too and that he needed to calm the fuck down and stop growling at them.

And Gwyn wanted to tell them to stop. She wanted to shout at them that it wasn't necessary, that they were only scaring her more, that they should leave her alone.

Azriel's shadows danced around her and then shifted, and Gwyn only then realised how clear and sharp they were to her. She reached out a hand towards one of them and-

"Go away," said the Shadowsinger, "If she needs one of you, I will come for you. But now you must go."

It was Cassian who replied, "Az-"

"Please."

Gwyn hadn't even realized she'd spoken, but Nesta's gasp made her realize it.

"I'm fine. Go." she continued in a weak, husky voice.

No one said anything more, and the sound of the door closing behind her friends was the only sign that they had actually left.

But Gwyn knew he remained there.

She could hear his panting breath, could sense his uneasiness. She could feel his heartbeat through the shadow twirling around her fingers. As if they were trying to steady her with that continuos drumming.

Do you want him to leave too?

She held her breath for a second, before realising that the shadows had spoken to her.

"No." she whispered back, not knowing if they would hear her if she just thought the word.

Azriel turned to her, and Gwyn knew that he was just waiting for her to command him, that whatever she would order him to do, he would do.

"Azriel..." she didn't need to say anything else as he shifted and moments later he had crossed the room and was before her, crouched beside the bed with pleading eyes. Gwyn looked up at him and it was like the first time, when he had walked into that kitchen so long ago and saved her.

"I'm sorry," he said suddenly.

And the raw emotion, the bitter sorrow that bound each letter made her stomach clench. His eyes had never been so clear and he had certainly never looked at her like that. It was as if he was allowing her to see a small portion of what he actually felt every minute of his eternal days.

Before she could even answer him, he had gotten up and was heading for the door. Only then did she notice that he was wearing only a pair of light black silk trousers.

She spoke before she could repent, "Stay."

Azriel froze in his tracks and the shadows that had so far only looked calm and composed went mad, crawling everywhere on the walls and around his shoulders, over his head. The ones that had remained on her moved with more fierceness and Gwyn felt as if she could touch them, as if they were solid objects around her.

A second later, they were still again, swaying with that deadly calm that belonged only to darkness waiting for something, anything.

He turned slowly towards her, his lips pressed into a thin line, "Why?"

Gwyn blinked, "Stay."

And Az watched her for a few seconds, before placing his sword against the wall and making his way to the bed. He was about to lay down, touch her, but he stopped, holding his breath.

"May I?" he asked in that low tone of his, pointing to the bed.

Gwyn only nodded.

Her room wasn't really meant to house an Illyrian warrior, much less her bed to hold both her and him at the same time, but when Nesta had offered her a room in the House of Wind, neither of them had thought Azriel would be entering her private chambers.

Certainly not so soon.

He was looking at her like she was going to break down at any moment, but she'd stopped crying the second he'd appeared and had resumed breathing normally when Cassian and Nesta had finally left. Her heart was still beating wildly, but her brain couldn't tell if it was because of what she'd seen in her sleep or the presence of the male beside her.

She ran her gaze over his chest, over the intricate weave of ink that marked his skin. Nothing she hadn't seen yet during their training sessions, but this was different. She saw him shiver as her eyes traveled further down, over his sculpted abs, and when she saw the hair on his arms stand up, she went back to look at his face.

"Are you cold?" she heard herself ask.

He gave no sign that he had heard her and for a moment Gwyn thought she had only thought it, but then he looked away, sighing and leaning his head against the headboard. "I haven't felt cold in ages now."

She frowned, ready to ask questions, wondering why then his body was covered in what was obviously goosebumps, but he beat her to it.

"Do you want to talk about it?"

Gwyn shook her head, turning on her back and looking up at the ceiling.

"Do you need me to do something for you?"

She repeated the gesture and sighed. Even just his presence would be enough for her until dawn came.

He made a nod of assent, crossing his arms over his chest, and she had to force herself not to look at the way she knew his muscles were pulling on his perfect, solid forearms.

She thought she owed him something though, for coming to her rescue again, for staying.

"Thank you."

Azriel was silent again, and Gwyn thought she should teach him how to have a proper conversation one of these days, because she knew he'd respond in a matter of seconds, but those melodramatic pauses he made every time he had to say something gave her far too much time to admire him, distracting her from the topic.

Besides, how much willpower did you need to say a simple you're welcome-

"I felt you," he murmured. Gwyn's head snapped in his direction. He continued to keep his gaze fixed on the wall. He drew in a deep breath that made his chest heave and his arms move, but she didn't have time to admire the sight, too curious to know what he meant by those words. "I felt you, as you slept. The shadows, they..." he swallowed, "they warned me that you were suffering. That you were in pain."

He finally looked at her and Gwyn's breath caught.

"You were in pain."

She curled up on her side, facing him, "I'm sorry." she said, "I didn't mean to wake you."

Azriel shook his head, almost as if to say that she didn't understand, but Gwyn saw the way he gave up even voicing his doubts, and she had absolutely no mental strength to be able to go so far as to ask him what was flashing through his mind.

There was only one thing she could think of.

"Azriel?" she called to him, despite knowing she had his fullest attention, "A few weeks ago, you told me you sing."

He nodded, now even more on alert.

She managed to crack a small, weak smile and the surprise on his face was like lightning striking her in the chest. A second later it had vanished.

"Would you sing for me?"

He watched her a few moments and hope had already planted its seed in her stomach when he said, "I'm not in the right spirit right now, sorry."

Gwyn huffed softly, getting closer, just a few inches. Nothing that could escape the Shadowsinger, of course, but she noted with no small amount of satisfaction that he didn't move or pull away from her.

He might not have felt the cold for the last five hundred years, but Gwyn was freezing now that the adrenaline was completely gone and the blankets were blocked by his mighty legs.

An idea formed in her head.

"You asked if you could do something for me," she reminded him. Azriel seemed ready to retort that he would not sing right then and she raised a hand just enough to keep him silent. "I won't ask you to sing again. Not tonight, but..." she trailed off, eyeing him suspiciously, "could you hold me?"

He opened his eyes wide and Gwyn thought she had never seen so much emotion on the male's face in the span of so few minutes.

He began to shake his head, "I don't think that's a good idea."

"Please," she begged him, closing her eyes. "Just until I get back to sleep," she lied.

She wasn't going to tell him that she needed to feel his arms around her to know she was safe. To remember the way he'd held her when he'd rescued her that day.

She felt him shift on the mattress, looking for a more convenient position for his wings, and when his hand brushed against her shoulder, he gasped. Gwyn opened her eyes, meeting his, now closer than ever.

His breathing became ragged as he shifted his gaze to his hand and withdrew it.

Gwyn realised she had been wrong to ask him when she recognised the look in his eyes, the pure hatred for those hands she revered and considered her greatest salvation.

She sat up, pulling the sheets from under their legs and, covering herself up to her neck, turned to him, "Is that better? You think you can hold me, if you don't touch me directly?" she asked softly, trying to wipe that look of self-hatred off his face.

Azriel looked at her, blinking once, twice, and then gave a small nod.

She sighed, getting even closer, until one of his arms slipped under her head and she was careful not to touch his hand as the other wrapped around her from behind and pushed her against his chest.

Feeling brave, she put a hand on his pec, resting her head against his chest.

"Are you comfortable?" he asked once they were settled. She merely nodded. "Good."

Minutes passed, hours perhaps, and Azriel didn't move an inch as Gwyn sought sleep more than anything else in the world, mentally exhausted from everything that had happened.

It was only when light began to seep in behind the curtains that the hand over the blanket between them began to trace a path down her back. She smiled in her sleepy state and couldn't hold back her gasp of surprise when he began to hum a tune and it rumbled in his chest.

Gwyn moved her head slightly, pressing her ear against his chest and the arm around her tightened only imperceptibly, but the faint low singing did not stop until she closed her eyes again, finally finding the peace of sleep.

When she awoke hours later, the bed was empty and there was no sign of the male who had kept her company that night.

It wasn't until she pulled herself upright that she saw a shadow hovering in the opposite corner of the room. It seemed to watch her intently for a few seconds and then the uppermost end rolled in on itself, almost as if it were bowing, before sliding under the door and out of her room.

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[nikethestatue]

hey nike, this is one of the first anons i've sent you, and i'm a bit nervous. hope all is well and you are healthy!

i have a problem, and i'm hoping you can help! i'm a multishipper, and don't really feel at home in the acotar fandom. i feel like elriel would be amazing (and is most likely canon) but i struggle to fit in--online. i have pretty severe mental illness, and it can make my life difficult--what i ship often depends on my mindset.

being a multishipper (especially right now) means i'm ridiculed and given a hard time. i'm exhausted, and i wanted to know what you would do--if people were giving you a hard time. Gwynriels have been A LITTLE more welcoming, and i'm trying to find my home-but don't want it to be with a ship that confuses me/that i don't like.

i had a huge issue last winter where i was called out and ridiculed for not knowing what to ship after acosf. and the truth is the book really unsettled me--it was like sjm turned the ACOTAR world upside down. i hated what the stans and SJM did to nesta. she could have been amazing--and they turned her into little more than a hole for cassian to fill.

if I'm honest, i don't want to ship gwynriel. i don't think what azriel did for gwyn was romantic--think about what it would mean for azriel to have ONLY HELPED GWYN because she's beautiful and he saw her being used. this preoccupation with gwyn's trauma and using it as a romantic tool upsets me greatly (I'm a C$A/r*p* survivor). Anyway... all food for thought and I wish I could be friends with more elriels.

Gwyn does deserve a healing arc (as all r*p* survivors do) and she deserves love. But forcing her into a relationship especially (she's less than a few years post-trauma like GODDAMN let the girl breathe!!) so soon after everything--leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I wish I could have a rational conversation with gwynriels but I don't know what to do.

(I could also dive into Lucien's $A which no one seems to like to talk about. What if /he/ doesn't want Elain--especially after what Ianthe did to him--from what we're led to believe his $A was repeated over months) ANYWAY. yeah. I'm tired and I don't want the word rape bounced around my dash like it's a basketball--but there are some important things that need to be discussed. If I send another anon I'll sign it with a 🥀 emoji.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this ask. I'm exhausted.

So first of all, thank you for having the confidence to sent this. I am sure it wasn't easy.

I am a multi-shipper as well, and I absolutely understand. The fandom could be vicious. I personally don't understand why I have to hate Feyre to like Nesta, or hate Nesta to like Feyre, or like Elain and hate Nesta...you get the point. Yes, I will never be a Gwynriel, but beyond that, I like everyone and am able to appreciate all the characters' complexities, shortcomings and problems, without putting anyone down or hating on all of them.

Now, that aside, I think my general recommendation and that goes for everyone and for all social media--this is supposed to be FUN. Reading, discussing, shipping, whatever--it's not supposed to cause you anxiety, keep you up at night, make you feel inadequate in ANY shape or form, it should make you feel ashamed. Because realistically speaking, it's not real. All these little silly shipwars, arguments, pettiness--it's all over something that's fantasy, over made up characters.

That's why I am always rabidly against bringing up real life social issues into this sphere. Things like racism, any type of phobia, or whatever--doesn't belong here, because the characters live in a world that is not compatible with ours, so I don't waste my breath talking about hefty topics when it comes to these characters. Firstly, because it's nonsense, and second of all, you will inevitably hurt someone. I've been called every possible derogatory name and offensive stereotype, accused of absolutely insane things, by people who've never been in my shoes, yet feel that they have the authority to opine on things that they have no knowledge or experience with.

Now, I have thick skin and I don't typically care, because I have the presence of mind to understand that this is all fantasy. I've been in this fandom for a damn long time and I've only been truly upset once. Which is pretty good.

Now, what can I recommend? Honestly, you need to think of yourself, of your mental health. Some people remain lurkers forever, and never engage. And I understand the desire to engage, so I would say try to create content, maybe comment, but I wouldn't necessarily jump into attempting to be friends with people, until you are comfortable. Also, you ship what you ship. No one, other than you, cares. It's not serious, it's not life and death, and you'll never meet 99.9% of people that you come across on this or other platforms. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. You want to ship both Elriel and Gwynriel--do it! Who is gonna stop you? You dont have to answer to anyone, because again, this is supposed to be entertaining, fun, maybe inspiring to do something with art or writing. It shouldn't cause you heartache, sadness and distress. Also, I recommend blocking accounts that post things you dont like or find uncomfortable. And if you only follow 5 accounts, then so be it.

You should be #1 in your head--you are what matters. Not the opinions of strangers online. You have to make yourself happy with the content that you consume.

x

[duvetdaybooks]

Why Elaine and Azriel could have a child in the future!

It has to do with getting help from the Mother! The Mother is mentioned a lot in a court of silver flames alone. By name the Mother is mentioned 29 times (I have the ebook so could check this). And alluded to another few times as a presence that Nesta can feel. Now we know Nesta changed Feyres anatomy as well as her own so that they could give birth safely to winged babies. Well I think that if Elaine wants to have children with Azriel at some stage she can ask the mother herself or get Nesta to ask to change her anatomy.

Firstly to deal with the argument of why did Nesta not just ask for Elaine to be changed too it’s very simple Elaine has already been changed without her permission when she got thrown into the cauldron and Nesta would not want her to be changed without her permission again. It’s one thing to change Feyre who Nesta knows wants children and was on her death bed and will likely have more in the future with her mate. Elaine doesn’t exactly get along with her mate who doesn’t have wings anyway.

I think Nesta will be the one to help Elaine to ask the Mother for help and here is why:

It would bring Nesta and Elaine back together in a more solid way. They were always close and Nestas depression put a strain on that relationship this would help them to form a close bond again. Elaine has forgiven her at the end of acosf but this would be a nice way to become closer.

Nesta helped Feyre change why not help Elaine too. We know she can.

She is very supportive of the relationship between Azriel and Elaine so I know she would only be too willing to help them.

She has a special bond with the Mother.

Nesta still has some of her powers

As well as…

At the end of acosf Nesta can still feel that presence with her

We also got some foreshadowing at the end of acosf. When the sisters take Nyx to their fathers grave Feyre is holding the baby as they walk down the hill to give Nesta some alone time at the grave. When Nesta returns to her sisters Elaine is now holding baby Nyx. The fact that she is holding the baby might be foreshadowing for Elaine and her story involving her own pregnancy. The end of books are meant to set up future ones. But who knows!

One argument I have seen against an Elriel baby is that when Cassian and Azriel are talking about Feyre and Rhysand and the baby due that Azriel doesn’t say he wants to have children. Cassian actually asks thinking that Azriel is still pinning after Mor and mentions it as in Azriel and Mor having a baby together but we all know that isn’t going to happen. I read this scene as Azriel longing for one his response isn’t even an answer it’s just a way of deflecting. So I think he longs for one secretly.

Another thing about Gwen and her pliant bones is that I think it was included to explain how Gwen was so good at the balance excercises and caught up to Nesta who had been training for a while before Gwen joined her. Even Gwen says who cares about that! I never read it as Gwen could have a winged child. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion so I don’t mean to come across as dismissing any Gwynriel theories. I’ve no hate for Gwynriel fans I’m a ship who you wanna ship kinda person lol

[bookofmirth]

I really do believe that Elucien and Gwynriel will be endgame just from a logical perspective. We know there are two more books in the series (excluding novellas), and SJM has said that there will be a book from Elain’s perspective. The other book must be about Azriel because he’s the only “main character” left from the inner circle (excluding Mor and Amren, but I really think Amren’s story is done and as much as I would love it, I doubt SJM would write an entire wlw romance book for Mor). If the next book really is Elriel, that would mean the last book would be from Lucien or Gwyn’s perspective and tbh, I don’t think they can carry a whole book on their own with a new love interest. So that leaves Gwynriel and Elucien.

My only issue with this is - even though I am Elucien shipper - I don’t see how their romance could be written without retconning or some random event that pushes the two together. I feel like SJM kinda backed herself into a corner with the timeline, because it’s been 2 - 3 years since they’ve discovered they were mates and almost nothing has been done about it. We can see Elain growing a bit more comfortable around Lucien and I definitely don’t think she hates him by acosf, but their mating bond still hasn’t been acknowledged. She hasn’t rejected or accepted him - either romantically or platonically.

To remedy their relationship, maybe we would get to see more interactions between Lucien and Elain in their book prior to acosf (through flashbacks or if the book just starts at an earlier time). But even if this retconning is done, I think it would feel inconsistent with how the two are presented in acofas and acosf - especially with the Azriel bonus chapter. Because Elain still seems pretty indifferent to Lucien. The only other way I could think of the two coming together would be a random major event that forces them to interact and get to know each other better, sparking a romance. Because if Elain hasn’t taken any action towards Lucien in three years, I don’t see why she would - out of the blue - without some external reason.

Sorry this is long, I hope it makes sense! What are your thoughts? How do you think an Elucien romance would play out?

See, I don't think that there will need to be any retconning, or any going back in time (especially since sjm doesn't typically do that. She writes very linearly except for brief flashbacks like to when Aelin was a child. Or Rhys during the war, for some random ass reason, in acowar.)

I wouldn't say that Elain is indifferent towards Lucien. Otherwise, she would be able to converse with him as if he were anyone else. Instead, I think she is very, very conflicted.

The way that I see it, Lucien and Elain have had a lot of feelings - positive and negative - towards each other, brewing this whole time. They haven't talked about those feelings, or what to do with them. It's a perfect recipe for a blowup. There is a ton of tension between them, 2-3 years worth of things left unsaid and arguments and conversations they only had with each other in their heads.

The issue of even striking up a platonic conversation (if that's a thing?) is that they can't really do that. They talk, and the mating bond is there. They look at each other, and the mating bond is there. They sneeze, the mating bond is there. It's a lot of pressure, and that might prevent them from talking things out.

Imagine Elain and Lucien both knowing that once they finally talk to each other and get to know each other, it could change the rest of their lives. That's a huge pressure and no wonder they are avoiding it. (Well, he is. She has her own, more personal reasons for doing so.)

There could definitely be a plot thing that brings them together. Maybe it could be related to Autumn, or Spring? Elain seems ready to get out of Dodge. Maybe... something could happen with the fourth Dread Trove object, putting Elain in danger? Or, I know that a lot of people think that Elain will make a major mistake later on, in her attempts to become human or prove her autonomy. Perhaps someone could sit Elain down, Feyre probably, and ask what her intentions are?

There are lots of ways that they could end up together, either by forced proximity or because one (or both) of them can't take the tension and uncertainty anymore. I'm kinda glad that we don't know that yet.

However it happens, I think that when Elain and Lucien finally do talk, it's going to be angry and resentful. Why? Because they have those 2+ years of pent-up emotion and lack of communication and imaginary conversations. (This is my headcanon I guess, just because when I have something unresolved with someone I have conversations with that person in my head A LOT.) They will say all the things they've been wanting to say and will likely surprise each other. They probably have an idea of what the other person is like, and that perception will be challenged when they actually engage.

It's going to be great, tbh. Imagine the "well I feel this way," and the "did you even consider what I felt?" and the "Oh yes because it's all about you," and the "well I tried," "WHEN?" and then "do you think I wanted this?" "well I certainly didn't". "And when you thought about Jesminda..." "well you were thinking about Graysen" "I was in love" and then "well so was I". Finally they exhaust themselves and get everything out that they have been wanting to say. Then they collapse dramatically into their comfortable yet stylish armchairs.

And then maybe "so what now??" Then they take a break and take a sip of tea and feel so much relief that all of that is off their chests, and they realize that they have actually been experiencing a lot of the same emotions (fear, hope, resentment, curiosity, anxiety) and hadn't ever considered that the other was feeling the same way. And they realize that now they can move forward, and now they don't have anything to hide.

Also, feysand and nessian have made bargains pre-relationship, so I would be highly surprised if elucien doesn't make one as well. Maybe they already have. That could be a good way of tying them together, even if the bargain itself serves to drive them apart temporarily (as nessian's bargain did).

Wow this got long sorry!

[elriel-oblivion]

Okay here's the thing.. I respect everyone's opinions and they can ship whoever they want but like... For Elucien and Gwynriel... I literally cannot even see how. I would gladly ship them if someone gave me a valid reason. Elain avoids talking or even being in the same room as Lucien, and Azriel had one polite conversation with Gwyn. Az is just nice to her. As nice as he would be to any female. Elriel has foreshadowing & chemistry- The roses painted on her drawer and the rose necklace...👀

Strongly agree with all of this!! My main problem with anything that's not elriel is that a lot of anti-elriel shippers completely ignore or erase Elain. With these ships, it's always what benefits Elain does or doesn't bring. It's so misogynistic, people just ignore everything she's mentioned about her own heart and how she doesn't want a mate or the bond, she doesn't care for it, but oh Lucien's had such a hard life, he deserves his mate!!!!!

😒😒😒

Surely he deserves someone who wants him as much as he wants them, no?

Non-elriel-endgame with the canon we currently have would mean Elain's choices are stripped once again since she'd have to give up/lose the love she actually wants in favour of one she doesn't want that's attached to some cultural concept that means zilch to her and her human heart. I mean, sure sjm could spin it so Elain catches feelings for Lucien and they end up happily mated. But then what is the point of having Elain constantly avoid him for three books? That's not even setting up for a good relationship bc every time they interact/meet, the communication just gets worse.

While I can honestly see the potential of gwynriel bc platonic interactions can later become romantic, I still don't ship it bc it doesn't feel right the way elriel does to me. I can def see gwynriel becoming a strong healthy friendship, but if it's endgame then Elain ends up with Lucien, whom she visibly shrinks from and has been avoiding since acowar. She doesn't feel seen by him at all - as much as I love Lucien and truly do want him to have his own HEA, we can't deny that he's really just pursuing (I use pursuing in the loosest way since he's very respectful about it 😅) Elain bc of the bond. If we take that away, there's nothing between them imo and he probably wouldn't give Elain more than a passing glance for her beauty and that's it bc she's not the type of girl he's into.

But people don't wanna think about how that makes Elain feel. This girl who previously felt seen by only one person - who then rejected her bc of that bond itself - and craves someone to see who she truly is, is being courted by someone who doesn't actually like her for her, but just the idea of what a relationship with her would entail. He's only trying bc of some divine belief she doesn't share. That must suck like hell. It's almost objectfying, the bond. And again, I don't blame Lucien at all, not even for trying bc it is something that's important to him and his culture, but it's not a mutual thing. If it were important to Elain too and she just wasn't cooperating bc of some stupid shallow reason, then I'd be angry at her. But that's not the case at all.

But with Azriel, the first person to see her since Graysen, there's so much potential for growth - for both of them. They make each other feel seen. And for all that antis say neither has grown in the time they've known each other, how did Az pluck up the courage to almost kiss Elain after having not done anything with Mor for five centuries? How did Elain initiate that kiss - ie have the courage to follow her heart again after having it torn and shredded by Graysen? And anyway, weve never seen into Elain's head so we don't know what she feels has changed within her; we can only detect subtle changes from other povs, but there might be some huge changes in her learnt from Azriel, maybe about her outlook on life/strength, that she's just keeping hidden for the time (or that no one has bothered to see bc Elain is invisible 😭). Same with Azriel. One little chapter isn't gonna tell us everything he's been thinking the past two years.

But either way, we know now that they both have feelings for each other. Why is a mutual healthy relationship shut down so quickly, one where both partners' choices are taken heed of? If Elain had said no in that moment, Azriel would've stepped back instantly, no questions asked. He probably would've have some huge internal conflict about his own self worth but he wouldn't have gone further without Elain's consent. He's already shown he respects her, he said they've been sharing looks and touches, and these are things fandom eat up, so I don't understand why it's suddenly wrong or unwanted just bc Elain makes up half the ship.

And there's so much foreshadowing/symbolism that antis seem oblivious to, which, fair enough, interpret the text how you want. But even if somebody doesn't see the spark or blooming feelings between the pair throughout the books (how do they explain away all the stiffness whenever one of them is mentioned or is in the same room or something though? Genuinely curious here), there's a lot of plot foreshadowing. The Blood Duel has now been mentioned twice, as has the idea of breaking the bond, maybe more. There's the issue with Koschei and Elain not being able to see things related to him past mist and shadow. There's all this potential conflict that could arise between the Courts if elriel pursue their love, and conflict is the driving force of any novel.

If gwynriel were an IRL couple, I wouldn't care if there were never any conflict, but if I'm reading their story, I want more than just them falling in love and having internal conflict about whether they should kiss the other or not. Especially if the backdrop is a fantasy world on the brink of war with many players. I saw a gwynriel post mentioning Merrill once and while I do think she has the potential to be a running antagonist, I don't see her as anything but a subplot/crony for/associate with another stronger villain. I don't think she could carry a whole novel at the moment. So Gwyn is tied to nothing in the overarching plot. Same with Az. Not to mention all the theories about the Koschei/Swan Lake/firebird folklore that is potentially inspiring this new series in the acotar world. Of course, this could all change as we get more info about the next book/s and all, but compared to elriel certainly, I don't think there's as much conflict with gwynriel.

Ultimately, I don't claim knowledge of the next books' content, so I don't really care what people ship, but the main thing I take issue with is how they treat Elain in the midst. A lot of gwynriel arguments I've seen portray certain acts in a romantic/positive light for Gwyn but either completely ignore or erase any semblance of romance for Elain or tear her down. Like, we shouldn't push the narrative that Gwyn as an SA survivor can't have healthy meaningful sex in the future (yeah, of course I agree), yet some of the same people who say that are also people who judge and make fun of Elain and call her too vanilla for Az without having a clue what her bedroom habits/preferences are 🤯 This is just one of many. There are so many double standards I've seen for gwynriel against elriel and I'm just tired of it. And even if they're not doing any of that, they simply hate Elain and don't want her to be with Az and so ship gwynriel as the next best alternative. Like, can they not push down Elain in favour of Gwyn, please? That's so misogynistic 🤮

For all that this fandom flaunts the series being feminist with strong female characters, they sure do a good job in tearing down females who don't fit their definition of strong, despite even Feyre stating and acknowledging multiple times that Elain has a different kind of strength 😒

Gahhhhhhh. *exhales deeeeeeeeply* Sorry this is so damn LONG!! 😅😅😅😅😅 I did not expect to write a whole bloody essay lol but I hope it was fun/comforting to read at least 😅😆 I know I fall back on elriel posts when the ship war gets too intense bc I actually enjoy shipping elriel. They've become my otp, and I absolutely adore both characters of the ship; I think most of us elriels do. I haven't really seen any elriel stans who dislike/don't care for Elain and her welfare so it's nice being in this corner of the fandom where we can appreciate both Az and Elain equally. And of course, the other characters with their due respect. I truly do want Lucien to finally get his good life, but I don't think that's with Elain 😕

[musicallibrarian93]

Inside Azriel’s mind (moriel/elriel/gwynriel)

Okay so I know this is a hot topic atm, and tbh I can see it going either way. However, I think I’m more partial to Gwyn right now and like all the fics I’m writing atm are Gwynriel supporting, but like I said it could go either way. 

Anyway I kind of wanted to get into Azriel’s head a little bit, so here is my analysis. 

Azriel had an awful childhood, didn’t believe he was worth anything. Gets taken in by one of his mothers friends and slowly starts to build up some kind of family. 

He meets an extremely kind and beautiful girl (That’s Mor btw) and he’s besotted with her, as anyone who has met Morrigan would feel, and possibly around the time he was plucking up the courage to say something and perhaps start to feel like he was worth more. Mor decides that it’s Cassian who she wants to sleep with. 

Now, regardless if you think what Mor did was right or wrong (btw she’d entitled to do whatever she wants, and I personally think she chose Cassian more out of panic and wanting to get out of her predicament rather than to hurt Azriel) it still hurt him. He was bound to take it personally, no matter the intention behind it, and I think this is where a large part of his feeling of worthlessness comes from. 

We get told Azriel has been pining for Mor for 500 years. I think this is BS. I believe he loves her and she’s family to him but he’s more in love with the idea of family and relationship, which Mor and the rest of the IC represent to him. However, Azriel being Azriel and not confronting his feelings may just take it at face value and think he’s in love with her (Idk this is a grey area). 

In addition, Azriel is a freaking Shadowsinger, he knows to some extent that Mor is/ has been involved with females. He would respect her privacy and never out her, but he knows for sure that she’s attracted to females. Mor herself says in ACOWAR, that it confuses Azriel when she sleeps with males. Why would it confuse him if he thought she exclusively liked males?

In terms of Azriel’s pining for Mor, it’s split into two possible paths. 1) I think an element of Azriel’s self-loathing could be that Mor has kept this secret from him? Like maybe he feels like because Mor doesn’t want to share that with him yet, that she views there relationship in a different way than he does. Or 2) (which I find more likely) He’s protecting Mor’s secret from everyone else? So when he beats up Eris at the High Lord’s meeting, maybe that’s his way of saying, ‘I stand with you/ will support you no matter what’ - but it’s coming across as romantic feelings because apparently being territorial is the only way an Illyrian can show they care. 

Anyway, Elain comes along. We know she’s described as the most beautiful Archeron and we know that the two have numerous moments where they are fascinated by one another. That scene where he realises she’s a Seer. Gorgeous. When he gives her Truthteller. Stunning. Arguably there is some kind of connection between them. I believe during ACOWAR is when Azriel starts to see Elain in same way he's been seeing Mor, or at least thought he’d been seeing her. Here is this misunderstood, lost soul that he gets on with really well, and it’s the first time he saw a future with anyone. He’d been telling himself it was Mor but maybe this whole time it was supposed to be Elain? 

Az sees a very strange situation arising. Rhys and Feyre are mates. Nesta and Cassian are mates (You cannot tell me Azriel didn’t know about this way before ACOSF). But Elain is mated to Lucien. That doesn’t fit the pattern. He says himself that he doesn’t understand how that turned out. Thinks the Cauldron got it wrong. And I think a lot of his attraction for Elain stems from a ‘this is what was supposed to happen’.

Then we meet Gwyn. Glorious Gwyn. Their history is so interesting. We know that he’s the first one to show up at the temple and they talk about in ACOSF how Azriel just killed all the Hybern soldiers. Which was strange because he normally brings them back for questioning. I’ve already seen theories about this being the mating bond and I would not be surprised. We know that when Rhys’s parents met, his father misted the men who were handling her so it’s not unlikely. But Azriel at this point is a little lost. His brother has just returned after 49 years, he doesn’t know if war is coming, he’s apparently pining for Mor and everything is up in the air. So I think anything he might have felt (i.e. the pull of a mating bond) would have been pushed deep down. Rhys talks about how he’s seen Cassian throw up after killing someone but that it doesn’t seem to affect Az in the same way, therefore Azriel is good at pushing down his feelings. Shocking I know. So upon seeing Gwyn for the first time he doesn’t even register what she might mean to him. 

Fast forward to ACOSF and Gwyn sees Azriel in the training ring. Cassian notes that she stiffened, perhaps because it’s the first time in 2 years she’s seen the male who killed a room full of soldiers who were attacking and abusing her (this is more likely) or maybe she feels something too (I think it’s possible and I wouldn’t put it past SJM to be like -that was a clue- but it seems tacky and dismissive of her trauma) 

Azriel sees Gwyn grow and train. And I think there’s a part of him that’s like ‘damn this girl is cool’. And we all know what happens on solstice. With Elain and Azriel, I really would have loved it if we saw that kiss but I can’t shake the feeling that at this point they’re both just a little bit upset that all their friends are in relationships and they’re not. I know there’s more to their relationship than that and that Azriel can’t bear the scent of her mating bond but I think they’re both quite lonely at this point. 

Having said that I don’t think anyone acted wrongly on solstice. Regardless if Elain has strong feelings for Azriel she is well within her rights to kiss him and at this point Azriel isn’t flirting with Gwyn, his obsessive pining for Mor seems to have gone so he’s well within his rights too. And Azriel is damn hot. Good on them. Rhys also isn’t in the wrong, I made another Tumblr post explaining this :).

Azriel was hung up on Mor, Elain helped him see a different future. Or that a different future was possible so when Rhys forbids it, Azriel has found himself unattached, I guess, for the first time since he was 18. I don’t want to dismiss his feelings for Elain and say that he only used her but I think she was instrumental in making him realise what else he deserved. 

Azriel and Gwyn then flirt and Idk about you but that must have felt quite thrilling to him. Unashamedly flirting with someone, not worrying what someone else might think. Anyway the next morning Elain gives him back the necklace, whether she saying ‘I shouldn't be doing this’ or ‘I don’t want to do this’, it’s clear that for whatever reason she wants to forget what happened. And Azriel intends to return it but decides to give it to Gwyn. Now I know this is gonna cause tension somewhere but like I don’t completely hate him for this because he doesn't give it romantically, If anything him giving it to her triggers the romantic thoughts, and he gives it anonymously. 

We know that Gwyn and Azriel get closer after solstice, all the little. flirty bits with the ribbon. Ugh so cute. And we don’t know anything about Elain and Azriel’s relationship during those 3 months leading up to the Rite so for all we know they’re just getting on like they did before. But I think Azriel is enjoying flirting and being close to Gwyn. It’s a easy-going relationship so far without heavy demands and questions of fate, it’s just pretty normal. Yes they have a history to work through but we don’t know if they’ve confronted that between them. (BTW I would like to have a full version of ACOSF from Azriel’s perspective cool ) But I think regardless if Gwyn and Az are mates, they’ve found people they can just be themselves around and that’s kinda beautiful. 

In summation, Azriel is a complex individual. It might be that he doesn’t end up with either Elain or Gwyn, although I find it unlikely because the bonus chapter sets that up for some kind of love triangle. But I hope I made sense, I know it’s like word vomit but oh well :) I love Gwyn and Elain and I do not want them fighting over a male. That’s tacky and they’re both better than that. Personally I would love see Elain go on her own journey and heal and find her indepence. (I’m gonna make a post about this). But yeah I just want them all to be happy :) 

[whats-a-jarjar]

ACOTAR SHIPS

okay i don’t know if anyone will see this... probably not but i wanted to get it out and state my thoughts. these are just my opinions so please don’t be mad if you disagree with me! obviously we don’t know everything so most of it is up in the air clearly. but here we go...

⚠️Acosf spoilers obviously 🤪⚠️

OK obviously this is about Elain Gwyn and lucien and azriel and you know that whole discussion.

so let’s start with Elain. OK I liked Elain a lot in the first couple books and I actually did like Elriel. I shipped them pretty hard. but after reading a court of silver flames and the Azriel POV bonus chapter my thoughts have changed.

I don’t think Elain and Azriel are meant to be together anymore. I just don’t think they love each other.  I think they like each other and are infatuated with each other but most of all I think they like what the other one represents. 

for Azriel I think he struggles a lot with his self acceptance and belonging. like in the Azriel chapter I think that became clear when he was talking about how he was jealous of Cassian and rhys. all his life he’s been an outsider, with his brothers and his family and with the people of the night court like the citizens, and even in the inner circle. I don’t think the inner circle sees him as an outsider nor do the readers but I think honestly Azriel sees himself as an outsider even with the inner circle. as well as the fact that he’s never really accepted himself and accepted the things he’s been through over the past 500 years. he still struggles with who he is, what his shadows mean, and with love especially. I think for him to see his brothers end up with two of the archeron sisters, he already feels like an outsider and that made him feel even more so. I think he is hopeful that Elain could be his mate or that the cauldron was wrong because he desperately wants to feel that love and feel that belonging plus it doesn’t help that now Cassian and rhys are like actual brothers by law. for Azriel I think Elain represents that belonging and how they can all be one big happy family(in his mind bc to us they already are). and that’s what he so desperately wants and loves. Because in the Azriel chapter when he was talking about Elain or thinking about her he didn’t really seem to talk about her personally or her personality but rather sexual attraction and then what she represents (to Rhys). and along with the conversation with rhys I don’t think azriel believes he has a claim on elain or that he deserves her I just think he really wants to fit in. and although Azriel was looking at her gift of like the powder every night before bed Which don’t get me wrong is pretty cute I still think he’s doing that out of his need for love and belonging rather than love for Elain. 

now Elain. OK for her I’m not sure if she likes Azriel. I think she does but I don’t know if she loves him either. I think she also likes what he represents. For her Azriel is her own choice and her rebellion. Since going into the cauldron she’s lost all of that: her humanity her choice her control. I think she wants to be with Azriel because she can control it. I mean I think she is sexually attracted to azriel as he is to her but I don’t think there’s any love.

as for Elain and Lucien because it ties in as well, whether they end up together or not I think they could be good for each other. i saw this in another post but I think Elain connects lucien to her trauma with the cauldron. Especially with her lack of choice and control because the cauldron took away her humanity, it took away her life, her friends, all that she had in the human world and then right when she came out Lucien was like im your mate which  immediately took away her choice in relationships and her control with love. I want Elain to give Lucien a chance whether that’s romantically or just getting to know him because I think that could help her with her trauma and you know if she wants to reject mating bond for whatever reason I hope that she at least tries to get to know Lucien. but I also think elain‘s being a little cold to Lucien because he was just thrown in it the same way she was. He thought he found his mate already in jesminda and then Elain shows up and is his mate and he’s almost as opposed to the idea as she is. I just want her to give him a chance because I think he could help her overcome her trauma and he can be open to love again since i think he’s fearful of it negates of jesminda. I just think the pairing could be cool for both of them.🤷🏼‍♀️

okay here’s why i don’t think elriel are a good pairing (aside from love). OK Elain represents flowers light bright colors life. Azriel represents shadows dark colors the night death. they’re opposites. And while i’m all here for a forbidden love opposites attract story, I just don’t think it works with them. for instance azriels shadows disappear around Elain. While I thought that was cute at first and I was like “aww she’s the light in his life“ looking back now i think they shouldn’t disappear around his “person”. azriels shadows are a part of him and although obviously he didn’t want to go through what he went through and no one should have to, they still remain an extension of who he is. if he were to end up with elain he’d have to change who he is. he wouldn’t be able to be the spy master or the shadow singer or the introvert with the dark past which we all know and love as Azriel. I don’t think elain can be with that type of person either. Despite hearing about her getting her hands dirty referring to gardening I don’t think she can be with someone like Azriel who is a torturer and could be seen as merciless. (which is one of my favorite things about him which is slightly concerning for me but anyways...) Azriel would just have to change who he is to be with elain for his sake and for hers... which is really toxic so… as well it was mentioned by Cassian and Nesta that Elain looks terrible in black. Well they said she looked pretty but that it just didn’t suit her and like was pulling the life out of her. And nesta mentioned she’d be happy in the spring court as she likes gardening, she thrives on light and life. so I don’t think the night court is for her as well as azriel isn’t for her as he represents the dark and literally black and the night court. 

now i think it would be cool if she did end up with lucien and he either became the high Lord of the Springcourt or the day court (which I’m still really pissed that we’ve been through a whole other book without anyone telling Lucien helion is his father like hello he’s an important character... rude). it would just allow her to thrive as,in my option, we haven’t really seen her do so far. [Plus I think a possibility of an evil elain would be so cool. I don’t think she would actually go against her family with evil intentions, but if she made a bargain of some sort and ended up being an antagonist but not a villain I wouldn’t hate it. At the moment she’s a little boring, but then again we don’t really know her personality so I’m open to an awesome character arc]

OK now it’s Gwynriel time!! OK not to start any fights, but I’m not gonna lie, the few interactions we’ve had between Gwyn and Azriel has started a whole feud because it has so much more chemistry compared to the few Azriel and elain moments we’ve had over almost four whole books. but gwynriel. ok no matter who you ship, I think we can all agree that we love gwyn and gwyn is a great character.  Plus I think she’s perfect for az. now I know a lot of people don’t like the proof about azriels shadows, but I actually think that’s really important. like I mentioned earlier, azriels shadows are a part of who he is and extension of him.  now clearly they like Gwyn, they are the president of the Gwynriel fan club, and they ship them hard.  they interact a lot with her a lot. Now I think because of this Gwyn and however azriel will cope in his book will allow him to embrace his shadows and except himself. this is really important to his character in my opinion. I think, and I’m not sure how to be honest, but his shadows liking Gwyn and Gwyn seeking comfort in the dark ( which probably means she likes his shadows) will allow Azriel to see his shadows and his scars and his past as not some thing that will bring him down but rather something almost to be proud of since he went through so much. I think once Azriel learns to accept himself and all parts of him, he will better be able to see that his family accepts him, because no one is really able to see that they’re accepted unless they accept themselves. and I think he would finally feel that he belongs somewhere which is such a good story to me and I don’t know if that’s just because I personally connect or I just want Azriel to be happy with himself and his life and whoever is in it but I think that sounds awesome☺️

so there’s a lot of possibilities about what will happen in the next book which we still don’t even know who’s point of view it is because apparently it’s so “obvious” but actually sarah it’s not so please tell us!! I do think in Elains book her trial, whatever that may be, is going to happen at the prison because feyres happened under the mountain and nestas happened on ramiel and there’s an extra mountain and an extra sister so I feel like that could definitely be a thing that happens but who knows?? I don’t know but these are just my thoughts and I missing points obviously I’m not perfect spoiler alert, but yeah. 

if anyone has any opinions let me know!! I love discussing things especially books!

okay thanks for coming to my TED talk 🙂

[yazthebookish]

Hello there! I saw your post about the artist Dominique Wesson and I wanted to thank you for bringing that to everyone’s attention as I was unaware until I saw your post. Artists should NEVER be attacked or bullied for the characters they draw whether for fun or for commission.

One thing I do want to ask is that all sides be exposed when they present such awful behavior. I have heard that a lot of elriel stans are attacking gwynriel artists and supporters on twitter mostly and am disgusted by the posts I have seen. I have also seen that a lot of gwynriel stans are attacking elriel artists and supporters on Instagram and tiktok mostly (saying their art is terrible but could be redeemed if the artist redrew elain with red hair instead, death threats, etc). I’ve definitely seen a mix on tumblr but not to the magnitude of the other social media platforms.

As a whole I think elriel, gwynriel and elucien fans are passionate and kind readers but unfortunately there are disgusting, troubling and downright awful members of each fandom (people threatening to kidnap SJM’s son if she doesn’t make a certain ship endgame?? Excuse me??)

When I see posts that only call out one side of the toxic fandom I worry that it causes the trolls of the other fandoms to feel validated in their behavior. (For instance, if only the toxic gwynriel stans are called out, the toxic elriel stans will feel validated for continuing to attack gwynriel supporters because they think that fandom as a whole is as toxic as those extremists.) Obviously you are going to continue as you please and I support you no matter what as a fellow non-toxic SJM fan. But I do ask that if you speak on the toxicity of the fandom, you include all sides so as to target all of the trolls and not just the ones from the ship you happen to not support. I will do my best to do the same!

I hope this message comes across the way I intend-full of compassion and good-intent and no ill will at all. Thank you for supporting our artists and doing your part to put an end to this madness!

I'm not gonna sugar coat what some members of my own fandom do because I know and called out previosuly Gwynriels annoying Elriels on Tiktok. It's childish and just ruins the fun for everyone or those that send anon hate or comment under artists' work that are known to be Elriels.

Toxic behavior is not validated on both sides of the fandom. I'll do what I can but I can't keep up with everything because I'm not aware of it and for the sake of my own mental health. I've been particularly avoiding Elriels because we're all heated now and can't continue having a civil discussion without it turning into a vicious argument.

I don't even have much to add to this. It's an important message that I want to share with everyone. Thank you anon🤍

[bookofmirth]

Hi

I'm not up to date with all the drama in this fandom bc i tend to scroll past it. But being a reader of the books before I landed in these fandoms, I'm utterly shocked about how people treat eachother.

I'm very neutral on this stupid ship war going on. I tend to fall more for Elriel. But I understand everyone's opinion. I used to read all the book analysis, but now it just seems so exhausting. I get that people love books and ship different people. That's normal, everyone has different taste etc i'm just here trying to understand why we need to bring other human beings down in order to push our own narrative.

Since when is it okay to do that???? Can't we have a normal conversation without sending death treats?

I normally don't really respond to anything that involves drama. But these last couples of months have gotten me to dislike the books more and more solely because of these, may I call them blandly, horrible people.

And i'm very sad to have to admit that i'm also getting sick of the art of the multiple ships. Which that's horrible because I love what all these amazing artists create. But the hate they receive and the comments just make me hate it all more,this whole fandom with all these toxic people ruining it for me personally.

Can't we all just agree that we like these books, and respect eachother as human beings, no matter what everyone else thinks? And maybe wait and see what the author writes? In the end it are still her books and she will have the final say in everything.

I wish SJM would release the next book sooner so all this hate would stop, then again i don't know if it will stop. They will likely continue and probably bother SJM too...

Thank you for listening to me ranting, you always seem very nice to people with different opinions, so I thought i might as well rant a bit too.

Have a lovely day!!

Hello! Thank you for this message! I think it's really helpful for people to see because they can see the impact of the things they are doing and saying in the fandom. There are a lot of people who feel comfortable being vocal in the fandom, but I gotta say, if I were just joining now, I'm not sure that would be me. I wonder how many people walk in, take a look around, and walk the fuck back out. I probably would.

I got on my soap box a little bit because I was thinking about some of the things you've said!

I was just talking with some friends, some of whom I've been in the fandom with since 2017, some who are newer. And we all 1000% agree with you. It's so, so frustrating that the fandom has gotten so nasty to the point where we've become so separated from each other that we can't have a single civil conversation. Where people of color don't feel safe, and where a lot of the fandom doesn't even seem to care about that.

When I first joined the fandom, there were definitely people who shipped one way and people who shipped another, but we were still able to have conversations with each other. There would be these really, really long posts that were chains of people commenting on posts and reblogging, then someone adding on their thoughts, then op would respond, etc. Yeah, the posts were super long to scroll through, but there was so much engagement, ya know? And it was genuine, too. We could disagree or say "hey OP I like this point, but have you thought of X?" And it was great! (I even have a tag for it, #long post tag, because I once got an anon who was annoyed at how long my conversations with people would be 💀so I made that tag for people who wanted to block those posts.)

I'm not going to pretend it was perfect - there were definitely people I didn't get along with. But that wasn't a fandom thing, that was just a personality thing. And I never in a million years expected those people to fly off the handle and start attacking me anon, or to ss my posts to make fun of elsewhere. Now, that's a constant fear hanging over everyone's heads.

It has created an extreme echo chamber. I would genuinely like having those old fandom discussions where people would comment - in the open, on reblogs - and then we could all engage in that discussion in public. Now, all of that discussion happens in private, in groupchats and Discord. And don't get me wrong, Discord is super fun. But it also means that 1) people who aren't in those groups have no idea wtf is going on when we vague, although I try not to do that anyway, and 2) when people are in those groups they egg each other on to be worse and worse. Worse than they would have been if they were on their own and didn't feel like they had a group of people there to support their asshole behavior. tbh, I have to check myself sometimes and think, "would I do this if I hadn't just gotten into a rant conversation with friends on Discord?"

And what you said about fan art, it's so frustrating!!! Since when did fan art become a battle ground??? Since when did the appearance of fan art = a win for one ship or the other?? Why can't the comments of those arts ever just be nice and appreciative of the work someone has put into it? Honestly, it makes me paranoid to write fanfic, too! I mean, is that next???

I totally agree with you that we should be able to respect each other as people. We used to be able to do that. I hate to admit it, but I have so many people blocked now because I just don't trust them. I don't trust them to be civil, I don't trust them to be able to see my posts, I don't trust them to even read what I've written without misconstruing everything I've said.

I'm not sure if people realize that there is a big difference between this:

I don't like X ship

And this:

People who like X ship are delusional

The first one is okay! It's normal! Like you said, we all have feelings and interpretations and stuff we would prefer to see or not see!

The second one, not okay! Stop insulting people, people!!!!

The idea of engaging in a normal, healthy debate with a huge portion of the fandom is such a foreign concept to me at this point, and it never used to be. There could be a lot of reasons for this. And I always try to avoid pointing fingers because I know that not everyone is like that, though I'm sure I have slipped into that from time to time.

I think it would help if we stop seeing each other as a gwynriel or an elucien or an elriel, and start seeing each other as individuals. When acosf first came out, I started noticing a trend where people would send me asks and write them as if they were writing to every single person who ships elucien, or as if they were writing to every single person who holds a certain opinion about Azriel. It was really confusing at first, and I'm gonna request that the fandom stop doing that altogether, to everyone. If you want to engage with someone, engage with that person, not your idea of who they are and what they think.

I'm down for conversations where we talk about the series and what might come next as possibilities, because that's all this is, so far. Anyone who says that "X thing will never happen" is making some bold claims, and it's really off-putting to people who know that that's not why we are here. It's not a contest where we "win" canon. It's fandom, where we talk about what we like and what we don't like and what we want and cross our fingers and hope.

EDIT I wanted to add on one thing - a lot of this behavior is incredibly shocking and disgusting and I think that we, as a fandom, need to be better at 1) calling it out, and 2) not assuming that whoever did X horrible thing represents all people from that corner of the fandom.

I hope that you have a lovely day as well! And that the fandom doesn't get you too down. @heleencollier