#i am saying these things as someone who is also a victim of ramcoa

[somewhat-very-insane]

things that people seem to think are perfectly fine and socially acceptable, but that should not be punishments. and no, i don’t care what your kid did do «deserve it,» these are just wrong

starving or withholding food from your children

making your children destroy their comfort objects (or destroying the objects yourself)

feeding your children foods that they are allergic to

watching your children while they shower or bathe (when significantly past the age where any «help» bathing would be necessary)

hitting your children, manhandling your children, or otherwise utilizing aggressive physical contact against your children

making your children pick up broken glass (without teaching them how to safely do so) or walk on broken glass

withholding medical treatment from your children

threatening to do any of these things to your children

teaching your children ideas like «privacy is a privilege, not a right,»; «these items are in my house, so i am allowed to destroy them even if you paid for them»; and «people are allowed to hurt you if they feel like you did something wrong,» are so damaging to impressionable, fragile minds. you are setting your child up for a ruined, unstable future by doing these things.

* feel free to add on

[requiemsystem]

PROGRAMMING MISCONCEPTIONS

Trigger warning for discussions of programming and RAMCOA. CLOCKING Clocking is not a real thing. It's arguably one of the stupidest things I've heard of in this community. I don't blame people for believing it, paranoia is understandable, but I absolutely do blame the person who chose to spread that misinformation in the first place. It operates under the assumption that everyone comes from similar groups with similar hierarchies, which is just not true. There is no possible way for someone from a completely different group with a completely different structure to tell your rank or anything about your group just by looking at you. What is possible is identifying dissociative traits and trauma responses as well as potentially attire matching specific groups, if you are still involved with your group. Even this would take some level of practice and familiarity with the individual, you probably can't tell some random stranger in the grocery store is traumatized and dissociative just by looking at them, the same is true for anyone else. INTERNET PROGRAMMING You can't be programmed over the internet. You just can't. Programming requires someone in person torturing you and causing you to dissociate, this is not possible virtually. Programming takes a degree of control and torture that is just not possible over the internet. What is possible, and what is probably being mistaken for programming over the internet, is virtual manipulation and grooming. PROGRAMMING OUTSIDE OF A GROUP Programming is inherently organized because of the nature of the abuse, there need to be multiple people to reinforce the abuse. If only one person were involved it would fall apart from not enough reinforcement and exposure to cues. Even if there aren't many active abusers, there have to be people complicit in the abuse and allowing it to occur. Programming groups typically have multiple victims as well, it's very unlikely that they just suddenly decided to program only one child one day. What can happen outside of a group setting is conditioning, which is frequently mistaken for programming. For more details, see this post. SCRIPTING Scripts have to be implemented very early on, and it's very hard to implement a script. Most programming survivors will not have scripts. It's also unlikely to have multiple scripts, as they would get confused very easily. I also dislike the term "miniscript", as it's still a script even if it only affects one part of the system. What commonly gets confused for scripting is forced introjection, where alters are forcibly introjected as certain characters. Scripting involves molding the innerworld and programming around the media, forced introjection does not. PROGRAMMING AFTER THE AGE OF OSDDID FORMATION The entire purpose of programming is to create dissociative states in the individual, this cannot occur past the age of OSDDID formation. What can happen past the age of system formation is someone manipulating and abusing you, which can cause further splitting, but this would not be programming as it doesn't have to do with the formation of your system. To my knowledge, programming has to do with the actual creation of the system, not just causing someone to split. I am a bit uncertain about this, so correct me if I'm wrong. DEPROGRAMMING You cannot be deprogrammed without a lot of internal work. You have to put in a lot of work yourself and with a reputable therapist to effectively deprogram. It isn't something that happens overnight, and it's not something that can be done to you if you aren't ready, and you have to be in a safe and stable environment in order to effectively deprogram. PROGRAMMING ONLY OCCURRING A FEW TIMES In order for programming to be actually effective, it has to occur repeatedly on a regular basis. It cannot happen just a couple of times. This isn't to say it has to be constantly occurring, but it has to be semi-regular and reinforced via activation of cues. If it happened infrequently, it would be much less likely to cause dissociation. - C-004-2

[granulesofsand]

Violent Survivors

As I’m seeing more content about the Crowded Room, there are some things I want to say.

I do understand that DID (or any other CDD) systems get a lot of negative attention from media. These disorders have been demonized by horror creators who only see us as a fun moral exercise, and it isn’t fair that survivors are reframed as abusers or liabilities. Most systems aren’t violent, most trauma survivors are not violent.

However. Some systems do struggle with secondary issues. Depending on what had to be done internally to achieve survival and not victimization (death), folks can come out of their abusive environments with a variety of unhealthy coping skills.

Some of us did have to hurt people. Some of us had to emotionally cope with that. Some of us didn’t have a choice as to whether or not we perpetrate, because if one alter won’t we will be split until someone will. That doesn’t even include systems who end up with personality disorders or other adaptive survival skills that don’t work in a safe environment.

I, as an alter, have been hurt by people who didn’t actually have another option. I have been hurt by people who did have another option. And I wholeheartedly forgive them. I also was them. There are cycles that go on that don’t always have an off ramp, and I cannot overemphasize how lucky we were that we got out. Because it was just that. Luck.

I can respect the right of the people I’ve hurt to be angry, afraid, pained, or any other emotion they’re having about me. The rest of y’all are not those people. It takes so much to keep from drowning in shame about the things that I’ve done, the belief that I am unforgivable and inherently bad.

This isn’t helping. I did what I needed to do to survive. There are more layers to these things than meet the eye, and it is still okay for survivors to be upset at abusers. It just isn’t okay to go on about how impossible it is for a system to be violent.

It takes a lot to heal. Anger is a good emotion to grab onto, especially if you struggle with fawning. But I didn’t hurt you. Leave me out of it, leave my system out of it, leave everyone like us out of it. RAMCOA survivors did what we had to to survive, we don’t need to put ourselves in danger with this toxic shame. Take your anger to the producers.

[transmascpetewentz]

i saw whwre you said not to trust ramcoa carrds and i was wondering if the one called "explainingramcoa" and the resources on it look okay? i found it a while ago and havent been able to go tjrough it super well yet cuz im just learning abt it all

(Disclaimer: I am not a professional nor an expert, just some guy on Tumblr frustrated with misinformation trying to be helpful. Please do not take my word as fact and be critical of everything you read, especially about topics such as RAMCOA, where misinformation of the antisemitic variety specifically tends to run rampant.)

Rating: Decently Reliable (6/10)

Further explanation and analysis under the cut. Major trigger warning, this Carrd discusses instances of abuse in great detail that I will reference and pick apart.

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, I had a very long and exhausting shift today, and I wanted to make sure that I did my due diligence in checking this source out. This Carrd does things a lot better than I've seen other Carrds do. For one, it lists out a sources page. It also provides examples instead of just saying nebulous things such as "governments" and "a secret network of [Jewish] organizations." That said, this is still a Carrd made by someone who is not an expert, which means that it is not fully reliable, and there are some claims that the author makes that make me raise my eyebrow.

Overall, here's how I would rank this Carrd in terms of common issues that I see among RAMCOA resources:

With 0 being "this issue is not present here" and 10 being "holy shit this Carrd's helpfulness is completely overshadowed by this."

Antisemitism And Related Rhetoric:

Satanic Panic Rhetoric: 4/10

Literally uses a source from nineteen fucking ninety-one to prove their point, which includes a lot of satanic panic bullshit. I'm sorry, but this is just not okay in any universe. Also, this gem of a misleading quote, which is either intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting why the satanic panic was bullshit.

Known for its prevalence in the “Satanic panic” and sometimes even referred to as SRA (Satanic ritual abuse), ritual abuse is often seen as highly controversial. Victims are painted as unreliable or susceptible to their therapists’ suggestions, and their stories go unheard.

Like??? This person probably has no idea what the satanic panic even was. By omitting the crucial detail that it was an antisemitic and homophobic fearmongering tactic by the Christian conservative right, they're making it seem like any person trying to analyze the antisemitism of this crowd's rhetoric is inherently disrespectful to survivors. By trying to spread the narrative that it's disrespectful to survivors to be critical of fearmongering, it's harmful to way more people, including survivors.

"Shadow Government" Shit: 4/10

This Carrd contains a lot of references to the government or governments (though doesn't specify which government or where in the world) doing RAMCOA. While I do not doubt that some governments have indeed perpetrated this form of abuse, omitting the details of where this took place can be very harmful. Below is an example that the author of this Carrd provided of organized abuse.

A government, looking for ruthlessly loyal soldiers and assassins, allows children to be brought up as fighters against humanitarian law. The children are forced to do daily military drills, constantly exposed to violence from both sides, never allowed to show their emotions, etc. Some of these children are even given steroids and other drugs against their will with the hope of increasing their reflexes and strength.

I did a little google search about the use of child soldiers in modern times, and I specifically looked for instances of them being forced to use drugs. While it is true that this does happen, it happens very little, and it is mostly done by non-government military groups. Again, while this scenario does happen, putting it next to more common instances of child rape as if they're remotely the same in scale and frequency can be seen as misleading.

While the author doesn't make any false claims in this area per se, the way that they go about making their claims feels a bit iffy. I give this one a 4/10.

Jewish Stereotypes: 0/10

I didn't see any sort of stereotyping of Jewish people or anything like that, so this Carrd is pretty good on that end. Although, as a disclaimer, I'm not Jewish myself, so I do not have the final authority on this matter.

General Shit:

Medium Unreliability: 8/10

A score of 8/10 comes from the fact that it's a Carrd with no way to contact the author or even know who they are. They claim to be a survivor, but for all anyone knows, they could be lying about that. That does not mean that they are lying, and I understand that revealing that one is a survivor can put them at risk, but nonetheless it is difficult to trust a nameless, faceless person who claims to know about such a serious subject, and who has no professional qualifications or experience.

Bad Sources: 4/10

This Carrd uses a generally acceptable list of sources, but some are unreliable, and one is satanic panic bullshit.

Conclusion

Averaging out all of my ratings on various common problems, this Carrd gets a solid 6/10 (with 1 being the worst and 10 being the best) in terms of misinformation and harmful stereotypes. This makes it decently reliable with a few issues.

[the80srewinders]

this anon sent hella misinformation so I'm going to debunk all of it.

first off I never had an iPad? I hate apple, I only had an iPod touch bc it was someone else's old one and I didn't want it to go in the trash bc it's a collectors item. I don't even use it anymore.

and sure I hate the outdoors, but you don't need to go outside to have sense and be a decent person. people put too much emphasis on going outside and less emphasis on learning how to be a good person.

and most of my time indoors isn't social media time. I'm researching a lot of topics and learning a lot of skills that I can with my mental and physical disabilities. I want to be worth something and help people, so I learn how.

a lot of people with DID use social media because we're just like you? we deserve to have normalcy too. and social media hasn't done near the damage Hollywood has to us. ask any "real" did system.

npd and DID can be co morbid. in fact most people I've met with DID have npd. where did you get this opinion from, the narc abuse believers?

I never revealed too much about my trauma. I have kept much more secret than you know, the trauma I've shared is just the mildest or the safest to share. there is much more nobody will ever know.

my younger cousin wasn't my first abuser and you're acting like I said she was my only abuser. hell no if that was true I wouldn't have did because her abuse didn't happen in the DID development time frame. and you can be abused by people younger than you. what you said just erased elder abuse.

also two minors can't consent even if they think they do, it's not right for two innocent kids to fuck and it shows that the kids have been abused and need help.

and the fact I have disabilities makes what she did even more so abuse.

also, I never blamed a child for my disorders or all my trauma.

I never said I hated the ramcoa community. I said I didn't like how they make it seem like it's all cult abuse. there's other forms of ritual abuse besides cult abuse, and there's people who've been sex trafficked without RA or MC. there's survivors who are sensible and know that the ISSTD and dated stereotype that "ramcoa is mostly the most unimaginable cult abuse" is unrealistic and you'll find many of those. I just wish the ramcoa community focused less on cult abuse.

you can be trafficked in your own home. the person who sexually abused me first did so by making me their prostitute *and* they were being paid to do so with money they used to fuel their drug addiction. that, even if I was never "dramatically ripped from my mom's arms, sold and abused more horrifically than you can imagine" it legally counts as child sex trafficking because it's fucking prostitution of a child. and there are ramcoa survivors who have callback programming and feel worthless unless they're being abused. that's a fucking normal part of RAMCOA. that's what I have been expressing, that and invalidity caused by people in the "trauma survivor" community who say things like you.

also, abuse is not love. it might feel like it to a programmed system, but it is *not* love and I have alters who hate it and tell me how much they hate me for wanting abuse. these alters have made me cut and caused me to attempt suicide because we can't stand to be in the same brain with each other.

also, people with developmental disabilities, especially intellectual disability get abused more often. they're so naive that abusers use this.

and as far as hoping I get r@p3d again goes, I have been raped once again this year, and I've been sexually assaulted as recently as a few days ago. I felt hurt, scared and sad all of those times and thought "why did I want this to happen? maybe I deserve it. why am I not enjoying it like I thought I would?" don't fucking say shit like that because you don't know how much it can push a victim over the edge.

and I've been fighting suicidal thoughts like hell lately. I've came so close to attempting but haven't, I've self harmed a lot and go back and forth between planning suicide. reading that almost made me really do it.

also, I'm not Internet addicted? I rely on Internet to have a life because of how mentally and physically disabled I am. id love to put my phone and coloring books down and ice skate, ballet, hang out alone w friends irl, work, yk be a normal human and not a waste of space? unfortunately the Internet is the only place I can matter or be worth anything to anyone, I've tried making friends irl and have trauma with it bc all my irl friends left except one. I also put the "iPad" (that I never had LMAOOO) down and do other things, like paint, draw, make jewelry, write and therapy which you should get.

you've spent too much time on systemscringe. real systems are nothing like what systemscringe makes did/OSDD out to be. they spread misinformation just like ENDOS.

and no I ain't gonna kill myself, I wanna stay alive and spite all the haters.