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“Everything you see will be something you’ve seen before” - GoT vs SPN

I bet you’re thinking, wtf, how do these two shows even relate? Bear with me a moment and I will show you how. I started this back in early December but damn a lot of searching the web went into it so that’s why it took so long. Plus, I just kept finding things to add.

These are two very different shows, different genres, different networks, one had source material and one didn’t, different casts and crews, different story lines, different tones, different universes, different demographics, etc. But it almost feels as if TPTB for the one show took notes from the other. Not in everything but in some things. (imagine my surprise when I came across that Dabb joked about that their finale would be worse than GoT on a panel - had I seen that back in 2019, I wouldn’t have watched the final season, not live anyway, after going through what we went through with GoT, but it is what it is and I’m glad I know now instead of being surprised with that instead)

Getting back to the list below, I compiled it because I remember when seeing how the last episodes of SPN was wrapping up that I began to feel deja vu and I wondered: am I going to see another shitty end to a series I love and have invested so much time in? Is that even possible? No, this show wouldn’t do that to me or any of the other fans...

I stayed optimistic and hoped for the best. Obviously, those of us that watched the SPN finale know how that ended. But basically, this list was born from that feeling of “I think I’ve been here and before and I am not liking it” or even better “I think I’ve seen this film before...”

Just a note, I put “Conspiracy” Theories as one of the categories - I put quotations like this because the shows themselves consider them to be conspiracy theories while I (& lbr, most of the fandom) do not consider them to be that.

Spoilers for both shows be below the cut

Show name: Game of Thrones

Genre: Fantasy

Created by: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss

Network: HBO

Amount of seasons: 8

Showrunners: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss

Source Material: Books 1-5 from George R.R. Martin, 6-8 none (except some planning with GRRM for certain plot points for the ending) - Adaptation

Telling quote from the show: “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

Ending expectations: “will be bittersweet” (x)

Show name: Supernatural

Genre: Horror, Fantasy

Created by: Eric Kripke

Network: first WB, then CW (when WB & UPN merged)

Amount of seasons: 15

Showrunners: Eric Kripke (1-5), Sera Gamble (6-7), Jeremy Carver (8-11), Andrew Dabb (12-15), Robert Singer was actively involved in co-showrunning in some seasons (i.e., 12-15)

Source Material: None - Original

Telling quote from the show: “What show have you been watching?”

Ending expectations: “fitting end to the show” (x)

(below, I put them side by side so to speak)

GoT Hero role: Jon Snow (though they played up Daenerys as the other supposed hero for a long time in the main narrative, being the other side of the same coin as Jon)

SPN Hero role: Dean & Sam Winchester

GoT Influences: LOTR (x) (this was already a confirmed influence for the source material but they did cite Peter Jackson’s films re: the Battle of Helm’s Deep scenes when comparing it to the 8x03 Battle of Winterfell episode - x)

SPN Influences: Star Wars (x) (Dean as Han Solo, Sam as Luke Skywalker - x)

Series Finales:

GoT Aired: May 19, 2019

SPN Aired: November 19, 2020

GoT Written by: D&D, showrunners

SPN Written by: Andrew Dabb, co-showrunner (and for those who continue to defend this man, blaming the network or Singer, please check out the links I’ve provided in this post, it’s possible some things he planned got thrown out in the end but you can’t argue with the man’s own words, he wanted a brothers only ending)

GoT Directed by: D&D, showrunners

SPN Directed by: Robert Singer, co-showrunner

GoT Red Flags before airing:

“Subvert expectations”

Main cast beforehand (with ensemble cast):

Emilia Clarke:

When she read the final season scripts, she was in a daze, grabbed her keys, left her apartment and went walking for a few hours (x)

“Best season ever!” (x)

Reactions to ending in facial expressions (x)

Kit Harington:

“Disappointing” (2:52 - x)

Peter Dinklage:

“You guys are in for it” in a monotone voice to the camera (2:38 - x)

Conleth Hill:

When asked if they were happy with the outcome of the show Conleth looks to Liam Cunningham with a little bit of a tiny smile & Liam starts laughing (0:23 - x)

Joe Dempsey:

“Well, that was totally what season 7 was all about, wasn’t it? Character development? Nah! Story! I really need to shut up, I know.” Jacob Anderson: “You’re really brave. Joe’s not going to be in Star Wars” (0:31 - x)

Showrunners beforehand:

D&D on Jimmy Kimmel - in their interview before last season aired, Benioff & Weiss joked that they were going to an “undisclosed location” with their wives and hiding until the last season was over - they then explained they were going on vacation & were going to turn their phones off until the finale was done airing -- case in point: they knew what was coming (8:45 - x)

BTS indications all might not be well beforehand:

D&D/show & GRRM tension/not agreeing on how the show should progress (x) (x) (x); D&D pushing to finish even though HBO tried to get them to do more seasons (link below)

SPN Red Flags:

“Will make sense for the boys’ journey, be a true ending”

Main cast beforehand:

Jensen Ackles:

(x) when Jensen was pitched the ending from Dabb & Singer, it didn’t sit right with him - he eventually spoke to Kripke about it who told him he was too close to Dean & he needed to see the ending from a “fan’s” perspective; Jensen also talked to Robert Singer about it who agreed this was the best way to move forward (x); when the ending was pitched, Jensen said it was very “take it or leave it” (1:02 - x) (x)

Jensen - “we’ve had to accommodate a pandemic” after he mentions that he & Jared are currently in quarantine in Vancouver to shoot the last 2 episodes & Misha doesn’t say much on this (3:24 - x)

Jared Padalecki:

Jared wants peace for the Winchesters at the end but also says that if the ending happens the way they talked about it with the writers, great, if it changes, “so be it” (x)

Misha Collins:

in The Long Road Home, the special airing before the finale:

Showrunners beforehand:

Dabb tweeted out a thank you to all including the fans hours before the finale aired -- case in point: he knew what was coming (x)

Dabb mentioning “true ending” (x) where it’s an end for good for the characters (end of their journeys) & also mentions Cas’ own separate arc from the brothers; he says it will end with the two brothers (x) - I could not find a link but he also said the finale would end with Dean & Sam with the found family they’ve built around them (if you find the link, feel free to add or enlighten me)

Dabb mentioning COVID affected who would be brought back for the finale (x)

Only 30% will “be really happy” & “if you thought Game of Thrones was bad, just wait” (x)

BTS indications all might not be well beforehand:

When Wayward Sisters failed to be picked up by the CW in 2018 & the network instead chose to go with Legacies & the Charmed reboot & in light of Mark Pedowitz’s statement, Andrew Dabb tweeted “After attempting to bring this show to air for the past two years...there are some fights you can win and some you can’t” (x); Jared mentioned somewhere that CW execs had tried to offer more $ & more seasons (?) to he & Jensen but they politely declined; Mark Pedowitz said jokingly he was open to more SPN if Jensen and Jared could be convinced to come back but did not see any spinoffs in the future since the last two “didn’t connect” and there were no more talks with Singer about them (x)

GoT Main character killed off in “shocking” way: Daenerys Targaryen (x)

SPN Main character killed off in “shocking” way: Dean Winchester (x) (x)

GoT Main character sent to “exile” (freedom gone, home [Winterfell] gone, family gone [in a manner of speaking])/bittersweet aka depressing ending: Jon Snow (x)

SPN Main character in “exile” (giving up hunting, home [Bunker] gone, family gone)/bittersweet aka depressing ending: Sam Winchester (x)

GoT “Shocking” twist: Dany goes dark, adds Queen Of the Ashes to her long list of titles, and Jon kills her to save those he loves most [8x06 script line] & the world by extension

SPN “Shocking” twist: Dean is pushed back into a rusty rebar while fighting clown-faced mime vamps, in order to save kids that have been taken (and that’s putting it very nicely) so he can die scared and go to Heaven, go for a 40 year drive since his Heaven is not complete until Sam gets there, his death forcing Sam to give up hunting, the bunker, and live a somewhat okay normal life though he misses Dean constantly until they’re reunited in Heaven

GoT Breaking the 4th wall moment: the conversation Tyrion and Jon have about Dany’s actions, with Tyrion as the writers’ mouthpiece & Jon as the audience’s mouthpiece (x) - Kit talks about why they felt it was needed (x)

SPN Breaking the 4th wall moment: I feel like maybe I shouldn’t even include this because they did wait until the credits rolled (& it was a nice thing for them to do) but at the same time I guess it can still be considered this type of moment - the cast & crew thank fans directly from the bridge Dean & Sam just had their last scene on, while Jensen and Jared are still in costume (x)

GoT Ending Issues: Character Development, Story Development, Rushed last season

foreshadowing, what’s that?

Jaime’s redemption arc

Bran is the King...okay then

Jon is banished to the Wall...again

Tyrion is the Hand...again

Bronn finally gets his castle...and a seat on the Council?

Arya has swapped Needle for a spyglass and a parrot & no face of some famous ship captain or pirate...okay

SPN Ending Issues: Character Development, Story Development, doesn’t fit in with the narrative of season 15 never mind the two previous seasons during Dabb’s era of co-showrunning with Singer

15 years of character building and story building, what are those?

Dean dies unexpectedly on a “milk run” hunt - his arc from season 15 and previous seasons is completely dropped - his ridiculous death being something that would have occurred had the show ended after the first episode of the first season

Sam gives up hunting & the bunker, marries Blurry Wife & has Dean 2.0 - something that would have occurred had the show ended after the first episode

Cas...Cas who?

Jack is on a Heavenly episode of Fixer Upper somewhere for 40 years where Cas’ cameo fresh from The Empty turns into staying for the whole thing as the other Property Brother -- neither show up to see Dean nor Sam in Heaven

Jody, Claire, Donna, Kevin, Charlie, the Alternate!hunters -- who are they?

GoT Fan/Viewer Reactions: Mostly outrage and disbelief across the board

Fans find out that D&D rushed it in order to make an original Star Wars trilogy for Disney that never ended up happening (watch this amazing video that breaks it down & what may have happened with D&D at the helm)

Fans find out that HBO had offered more $ and more seasons for show to end (x); that GRRM had said the show would need at least 13 seasons to end properly (link above)

“Conspiracy” Theories:

Daenerys’ monologue in 8x06 in the destroyed throne room when speaking to Jon - “what a thousand swords would look like for a little girl who couldn’t count past 20” -- it was suggested this was added in at some point to make Daenerys more sympathetic in this scene to the audience, possibly at the insistence of Emilia herself after finding out about the throne room scene (though I don’t think this has ever been proven/confirmed officially but it’s evident there was some reworking done behind the scenes for not only this scene but also for Jon’s hidden/absent narrative/arc)

SPN Fan/Viewer Reactions: Mixed - a lot of outrage and disbelief, but some like it (about 30% to be exact)

Fans blame Andrew Dabb, Robert Singer, SPN TPTB & the network -- as time passes and more comes to light, it becomes clear to many that the finale may have been the result of some network interference and they are to blame -- some still see it as a failure and/or interference of Dabb’s/Kripke’s/Singer’s as well -- Kripke makes it clear this his ending would have been much darker had he written it (confirming he did not write it, it was written by Dabb & pitched by both Dabb & Singer) but it’s the “right ending” (x) -- everyone keeps claiming COVID is to blame for such an empty episode, pardon the pun (x)

Fundraisers were created by fans in the name of characters: Castiel, Dean Winchester, Sam Winchester, Eileen Leahy, Jack Kline, Gabriel, Charlie Bradbury, & even Miracle

“Conspiracy” Theories:

15x18:

A scene of Dean looking more emotional to Cas’ confession was in the promo for 15x18 but never made it to air

Jensen said during a panel (I think it was) that he was surprised that a lot of his emotional reaction was cut when he first watched the full episode - he explained it away as the editing process, that the editors tend to “let the air out of a scene”

Y yo a ti, Cas - When spanish dub of 15x18 airs, it becomes clear that something is amiss with the ending of 15x18, the last two episodes, and the network -- the conspiracy theory is born but as time passes, it becomes clear to many that it’s not just a theory but there was some actual interference by the network that resulted in major story arcs and character development being dropped in the finale

Misha dubs the spanish dub ending as a “rogue translator” -- many that work in international dubbing dismiss this notion & explain the process in detail to showcase that translators do not go “rogue” -- translator confirms that director added the line in due to it matching the mouth movements better & that it made better sense for the story that was being told in previous episodes and for the scene

15x20:

the finale was 36 mins long, shorter than its usual 45-46 min window -- this is unheard of for a series finale, especially after a long running show like this (I will come back to add link to that post)

11 scenes are missing (I will come back to add link to that post)

a shot of something looking like the Empty was mistakenly included in a promo (I will come back to add link to that post)

a thank you shot to the fans from the cast (J2 & Jim) & crew is included at the end, breaking the fourth wall (though this happened after the ending shot of Sam & Dean), indicating a large gathering of people could happen without wearing masks (meaning other actors could have been there had they quarantined like J2 & Jim)

Heavy Walker promo happened during the finale’s airing

There was a different ending for Cas other than celestial architecture (x)

Network Interference:

Fans believe that the writers were sending a message through Chuck’s arc in season 15, that he was a stand-in for the network and his dialogue in certain scenes confirm this was the case (x) (x)

Due to the heavy promo of Walker during the last seven episodes’ airing & especially the finale, & the fact that all story development and character development for Dean & Sam individually and together are dropped, Cas, Jack & Eileen (three important characters for the boys) are never mentioned again, the focus on Sam throughout the episode and Sam’s shirtless scene, party wig montage -- it appears as if the network did run interference to keep its core audience from seasons 1-4 in order to drive them to Jared’s new show Walker -- this enrages fans (as it should)

Due to what happened with 15x18’s spanish dub & the lack of response to Cas’ confession by Dean in the narrative one way or the other, fans are upset that this plot point was dropped and that this part of Dean’s arc is never closed but left open to interpretation -- movements of #theysilencedyou #theysilencedthem #theysilencedhim #saysomething #theywillneversilenceus #haltthesilence pop up and trend soon after the spanish dub is circulated & it becomes obvious that this part of the story was very obviously dropped, kicked to the curb, and forgotten in order to prevent Dean from having to answer at all within the narrative

GoT Calls for redo: Petition to reshoot season 8 with better writers that over 1 million people signed (x), HBO refused (x)

SPN Calls for redo: Petition to reshoot the finale (x), CW: Supernatural, who’s she? (CW removed all Supernatural content from its YouTube channel)

GoT Cast Reactions:

Emilia Clarke - defends her character (she played the character for years & did not know they were planning for Dany to have that end, she was only given notes on how to play a scene, so she was caught off guard at the dark turn), also says it’s grief as to why Dany attacks KL & goes dark (x) (x) (x - I could not find the original video on YT but this article has it)

Kit Harington - feels Jon’s ending is right for the character (x)

Sophie Turner - satisfied with Sansa’s ending (x)

Peter Dinklage - loved the ending but says to the camera: “They should’ve seen it coming” (2:53 - x)

Charles Dance “I was confused” (x)

Conleth Hill: his expression at the end of the final table read & Lena grabs his hand sympathetically while Emilia looks on (to which he later confirmed that he was depressed at how his character was killed off & that he had been given no warning prior to reading the scripts)

Lena Headey: she confirms that she thought Cersei should have gone out in a fight with someone or some other way but eventually the more she talked with the showrunners about it, she agreed it was a fitting end for her & Jaime to go out together the same way they came into the world (x)

Cast is understandably protective of crew & how hard they worked for 8 seasons (9-10 years) & for what they created together

SPN Cast Reactions:

Jared Padalecki - likes the finale (x)

Misha Collins -

doesn’t really discuss the finale/series ending too much but likes Cas’ ending in 15x18; he thought Cas’ last scene/confession was going to be validating for fans (x); mentions that Cas’ ending pre-COVID had been different (link above)

Video (link above) -- after the spanish dub of 15x18 dropped and there was an outcry of foul by the network, he wanted to assure his followers that there was no conspiracy with the network and that he was “irked” that people were claiming there was -- he ultimately apologized and listened to those who messaged him about why people were really upset by Cas’ disappearance from the narrative as a whole, he had originally thought they were upset about what happened to Cas in 15x18 specifically which he thought woul dbe validating for fans

Jensen Ackles - silence except for one post on IG (posted a pic of him on set with “rusty nail” with a joking caption -- many viewed it as agreement that the finale bombed/his character’s end was ridiculous or him being salty or him trying to comfort fans through a funny post while also commiserating) (x)

Sebastian Roche - commented on Jensen’s instagram photo with the “rusty nail”, made a joke to Chad on Twitter about how the rusty nail would now be doing autographs, & tweets about it (link right above) (x) (x)

Samantha Ferris - confirms along with Chad Lindberg that she, Alona Tal, and Chad had not been asked back for the finale pre-COVID or after COVID hit and that she would have risked it had they been asked (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x)

Cast is understandably protective of crew & how hard they worked for 15 seasons/years & for what they created together

GoT Celeb Reactions:

Seth Rogen (x) - panned the finale & took fan questions at his own show’s final panel at Comic Con

Kevin Hart (1:20 - x) - “put my face on the petition”

SPN Celeb Reactions: (this has more to do with Dean’s manner of death & who should have been in the finale pre-COVID, I personally haven’t seen any other celeb reactions to the finale outside of the cast)

Sebastian Roche (links above)

Chad Lindberg (link above)

Samantha Ferris (links above)

GoT Showrunner Reactions:

D&D did not show up for Comic Con 2019

they give a semblance of an explanation at the 2019 Austin Film Festival where they admit they had no idea what they were doing as first time producers & that it was hard for them to let go of the show (meaning why no new showrunners or writers were brought in and why they didn’t become less involved in directing/writing as many episodes as they did) (x) (x)

SPN Showrunner Reactions:

silence

Singer talks about what they tried to accomplish (x)

GoT Open (a DIY Interpretation Style) Endings:

Jon is banished to the Wall for his crime, back in the Night’s Watch, after being allowed to say goodbye to his family one last time - the last we see of him: the gate being shut behind him as he leads the Wildlings back home in the North

Sansa is Queen In the North and she is alone in Winterfell but the Northerners are happy to have her -- the last we see of her: at her coronation, watching the Northerners shout out for her

Arya is traveling whatever’s west of Westeros

Bran assembles his new council and Tyrion is made Hand

Drogon flies off with Dany’s body across the sea

SPN Open (a DIY Interpretation Style) Endings:

If Dean and Sam see Cas or Jack again in Heaven

If Dean reciprocates Cas’ feelings or not

If Dean and Sam see anyone else outside of Bobby and each other in Heaven

If free will is actually a thing

Alternate! Charlie’s, Alternate!Bobby’s, Jody’s, Donna’s, Claire’s, Kaia’s, Patience’s, Alex’s, Kevin’s, Alternate!Hunter group’s fates

Eileen’s fate -- this just in: is she the blurry wife?

It’s implied that Jack got Cas out of the Empty (which originally it was stated that Chuck didn’t have power there, hence why they hid Jack there for the beginning of the season, but then he did in 15x19 to break Lucifer out?) but we don’t know how or when

GoT Nuked Character Endings:

Daenerys Targaryen -- while the writing was on the wall for a while of her going dark (I’d argue since season 2 at the very least, possibly even season 1 in that episode), they unfortunately rushed/botched it so it left viewers reeling & feeling as if she essentially underwent this massive transformation overnight -- they try to justify this sudden turn of events with Missandei’s murder (while going for shock value) & Rhaegal’s death and the final card to knock down the house was equal sides of Varys’ betrayal due to Sansa telling Tyrion who Jon was & Jon’s inability to show her the love she craves -- they chose shock value & “subverting expectations” over the story & characters

Jaime Lannister -- this was a man on a redemption arc, he starts off as the bad guy but turns into a redeemable person by the end, the same guy who killed the Mad King to keep him from burning King’s Landing with wildfire says in 8x05 that he never cared for the people or any of it and then rushes back into Cersei’s arms, the same woman/sister he had chosen to do the honorable thing over her in the previous season and started up a romance with another character only an episode previously -- his whole arc and character development thrown out the window for “subverting expectations”

Tyrion Lannister -- he was a fan favorite, someone who viewers always rooted for, his intellect & sharp wit was alway the emphasis and like Varys, he had seen some of the worst people in power, namely his family - he always saw through people, that was one of his strengths - in the end, he admits that he was in love with Daenerys and this is supposed to justify/contribute to his inability or unwillingness to see what she really was, until she torched KL & indirectly killed Jaime & Cersei, although he really saw it all along as is stated in dialogue throughout seasons 7 & 8 which proves he ignored it which is confirmed by dialogue with Varys in 8x05 -- they needed a way for Dany to come to Westeros & not attack KL right away so they could wrap up the White Walker/North arc & what better way to do that than to sacrifice a character without killing them (see Jon Snow’s blank stare since 7x03 for reference)

Cersei Lannister -- the badass villainous queen we all loved to hate but also secretly love - she was arguably one of the most powerful players on the board, even after she suffered a massive setback in season 5, she still got back up on top and even went further, right up to the Iron Throne itself - instead she is set up as the fakeout Mad Queen, provoking Dany into massacring KL by capturing Missandei & brutally executing her, using the innocent people of KL to keep Dany at bay (that’s rather in character for her), but underestimates Dany and sure enough, Dany wins (underestimating is not in character for Cersei, look back to 6x10) & kills everyone anyway, Cersei’s end came in Jaime’s arms & being crushed by big bad ceiling rubble -- this is arguably a laughable end for the enormity of this character - being set aflame by Drogon (not that I wish that on her of course, or anyone really) or stabbed by Arya or some sort of confrontation would have suited her character better but again “subverting expectations” & “shock value” (or lack thereof in this case)

Sansa Stark -- this one, while I’m glad she is still alive & in a better position, is really the only one besides Arya, Brienne, Sam & Davos whose ending you could feel satisfied with, yes she became Queen In the North in the end, was able to stay at in the North/at Winterfell but her family is not with her, she’s lost a lot of people she loved, and has an Elizabethian ending walk, how incredibly heartbreaking it was to see that crown with two wolves on her head, remembering her quote from season 7 “the lone wolf dies but the pack survives” (yes the pack survives but they have to stay together as a pack to do it, hence the beginning of that line & the meaning of the word “pack” and how it’s used here), her bro who isn’t really her bro anymore is down in KL ruling with her ex-husband as his advisor, her sis jumped ship literally, and her cousin is banished to the Wall for the rest of his life, Brienne and Podrick are in KL, Royce is back in the Vale with Robyn, everyone else is dead, if you know anything about Sansa’s character, you realize that this ending is indeed bittersweet, they actually got that right about hers -- basically House Stark survives, Sansa is safe, the North will be left alone, and the show is saying to “what more do you want?” a lot actually but after how this season turned out, we’re too afraid to ask and we’ll take it

Bran Stark -- this ending is one of the ones that confused me the most, no hate on Bran obviously, but for someone who “doesn’t really want anymore” and could never be “lord of anything”, that sure “subverted expectations” -- while this may be GRRM’s ending (I think it was confirmed it might be?), it’s obvious he’ll handle it way differently, the man believes in foreshadowing and seeing it through, not “shock value”, there needed to be some sort of lead up for crying out loud, especially since he has the advantage of seeing the future at times

SPN Nuked Character Endings:

Dean Winchester - what can I say about Dean’s nuked ending besides what we all already know at this point - not only did it give a very dangerous message “free will is an illusion, don’t try to change your story because it will end the same, death = peace/happiness” but it also nullified however many years of story telling the show had done and his arc was never complete, not the way it was supposed to be - for Dean Winchester who was meant to be the Han Solo in this journey, the hero, this was a depressing and very baffling end while also being somewhat laughable though mostly tear-inducing and enraging - vamp stunt guy #4 pushes Dean into a rusty nail in some rando barn, from an incomplete hunt that involved his deadbeat dad back in season 1 with some forgettable minor character becoming the ultimate Big Bad for all of 30 seconds that does Dean in

Sam Winchester - and for the Luke Skywalker of the story? We have the most laughable aging montage of all time with an even sillier Party City wig they had on clearance from three Halloweens ago, a rando blurry wife, and a bittersweet life of waiting to die to join Dean in Heaven - so Skywalker instead of maintaining his Jedi training & being the last Jedi (Winchester) standing, he just throws away his lightsaber, tucks in for a rerun of Golden Girls, and calls it a day? We started with Sam’s POV in season 1, in the pilot, and his story was foreshadowing him becoming a leader for other hunters, he was one of the best, not to mention his romance with Eileen is just ripped from the narrative into the Empty like Cas and Dean’s characterization was to make room for blurry wife, Dean 2.0, and crying jags in the Impala?

Castiel - I did not add Cas to this list out of respect that Misha appreciated his ending as did some Cas fans -- personally, I was not thrilled with him not coming back (or being rescued/wanted) or how he never got an answer from Dean one way or the other but his selfless sacrifice, him staying within character in that way, I did appreciate -- so to be respectful, I didn’t add him

Jack Kline - I didn’t add Jack to this list though I personally was not happy with his ending, for some of the same reasons listed above for Cas but also because he deserved a chance at a life imho and to be with his family, but some fans felt this was a decent ending for him when comparing him to other characters’ endings so I didn’t add him in

Eileen Leahy - where the hell did this woman go? She was present in the narrative even when her actress wasn’t, as illustrated by 15x18, something that affected Sam strongly when Chuck Thanos-snapped her, her dying again which Sam had been afraid of from what he says in dialogue in 15x17 to Dean, but once Jack becomes God and all people on Earth are restored, she never appears again? Sam doesn’t question where she is or try to contact her (something that could have been done without Shoshanna being on set fyi), he doesn’t ask Jack about her, or even realize she existed once upon an episode ago - by 15x19, she’s gone from the narrative completely, disappearing faster than Cas did - this character was a strong female character that was in the business, was perfect to be added to the found Winchester family and to the hunting network that Sam should have been leading, was a perfect complement to Sam which Dean even confirms in dialogue in 15x08, she had a disability that did not stop her from her badassery, she was basically Mary to Sam’s John (I cringe to make that parallel but you get the gist) -- and then suddenly, poof! Like she never existed. My $ is that she texted Sam at some point between 15x19 and 15x20 but he frowned looking at his phone and texted her back “new story arc who dis?”

GoT Loose/Dropped/Missing Plot Points:

Jaime Lannister’s redemption arc (I cannot stress this one enough)

Jon’s parentage reveal

Arya’s faceless training

Cersei setting out to destroy every one of her enemies (& her common sense suddenly missing along with her brilliant strategizing)

Cersei has mentioned Sansa for seasons, why was there no last scene they shared?

Littlefinger’s death - he was just never mentioned to Jon, or no one ever mentioned him again like Varys (even if his little birds had already told him)?

Why all the talk about the dragons being the only children Dany would have ever have? (I’m glad they didn’t go with a miracle baby but why all the mentions in the story line?)

Jon being the Prince Who Was Promised, and him going to be the one to face off with the Night King and kill him

Jon being foreshadowed/hinted at as a ruler in some capacity

SPN Loose/Dropped/Missing Plot Points:

Hunting -- did anyone else pick it up in other areas of the country? Since monsters obviously still exist post-God!Jack (& are there any more vampmimes? We’ll never know since they didn’t say anything...oh bad joke? So that was finale, but I digress)

Did Sam adopt Miracle? (okay I’m sort of joking, I assume he did because he left with Miracle) Was Miracle reunited with Dean in Heaven eventually? Is he at some pit stop before the next bridge? Will it take Dean another 40 years to get there?

What happened to the bunker and the legacy/MOL arc? Is it just gone? Did Sam really just leave all of Dean’s possessions there to be entombed until the next generation of legacies? Is this plot point suddenly dead in the water because Dean is?

What about the strong hinting/foreshadowing of a hunter network that Sam was going to be a leader of? Or Sam in a leadership role in this world?

What was the shot of a crossroads demon kidnapping the girl in 15x15 supposed to suggest? (even GA caught this one - x)

Do the boys just never ever speak to Rowena again? She’s technically dead and the Queen of Hell (and they’re in Heaven) but is that it? Does Sam really never see her again after Dean’s death?

Why did no one go to Dean’s funeral? (I get it, COVID, but um...could no one from the crew from the infamous bridge shot make it in costume as random hunters?)

Did Sam ever speak to Jody or Donna or Claire or anyone else ever again (assuming they all were restored by Jack)? Did he ever see Jack again while still alive?

Do Dean and Sam ever see Cas again period? Do they ever see Jack again, their “kid”?

What happened to Eileen? Why did she go bye-bye permanently? Why was she a romantic lead for Sam this season & he’s so devastated at losing her in 15x18 but he suddenly forgets about her in 15x19 & 15x20?

What about Dean’s desire for settling down, a happy ending, a romantic partner? -- if it was always meant to end this way (with him dying without any of that), why show that he wanted something different after his years of character development, why was that a focus this season & then dropped? What was the point of Miracle & the job application shots then?

What happened with the Empty & “you’ve made it loud”? Is anyone else awake there? Lucifer? Michael? Billie? The lost story development?

Cas - will he ever see the Winchesters again? Is he still an angel? (I know he’s in Heaven helping Jack so I assume he is but is his grace fully restored by Jack?) Is he no longer in danger of the Empty coming for him? Or will he still go back to the Empty once he dies since he’s still an angel? What was the point of showing that his grace was failing at all?

Will Sam and Dean see Mary or John ever again? (yes, I forced myself to type those words for neutral objectivity though it was damn hard) Are Bobby and John besties now? Is it awkward between Mary and Bobby because of Alternate!Bobby?

Where was Bobby’s wife? Why did he never mention her? Why did he mention Rufus and his wife but forgot her? And the boys lost a ton of people over the years, why only mention Rufus?

Do the Alternate!people go to Heaven as well once they die since their world is gone? Will there eventually be a who wore it best for Bobby’s hat?

What happened to Kevin? Is he just wandering the world forever? Did he finally lose his mind being in the veil and is wreaking havoc somewhere until someone stops him? Or is he in Heaven with his mom?

What happened to Charlie? What happened to Jess? Again, I know, COVID, but considering how important they were to both Dean and Sam, especially since Jess’ death started Sam back on the road with Dean hunting, they couldn’t get a mention? More “new story arc who’s dis?”

Jody & Donna eventually died so did they make it to Heaven, too? Did Claire get the happy ending Dean didn’t? Did Kaia or Alex get killed on a hunt? Did Patience become the new Missouri? I know Wayward Sisters got cancelled but we were still invested in these characters since Dean and Sam were

Both shows were vastly different and I think their finale fails ended up being somewhat different as well. Though I show the similarities in this list (again to show that deja vu feeling), the bottom line is this:

GoT was rushed in its last season, D&D wanted to be done with it & move onto other projects. So they crammed everything in they could think of while doing it (though tbf Dany’s dark turn had been foreshadowed earlier in the show, they just rushed it & mishandled it completely) with the perspective of shocking everyone & not giving them what they expected. The ol’ Operation: Shock and Awe duo. They patted themselves on the back for a job well done (so they thought, even though they knew how fans would react at 8x05′s events and then 8x06′s) & had Star Wars in their eyes.

SPN didn’t rush their last season -- they simply dropped it by the time the finale (15x20) rolled around. Whatever the reason, this is how Dabb & Singer saw the guys’ ends or network interference or COVID aka that bitch - everything went kaput and we circled completely back to the pilot, almost as if the last 15 years hadn’t happened at all. The only difference is the characters were older, Dean had a dog for 10 minutes, Sam (aka Skywalker) had to end for Walker to rise (sorry not sorry for that wordplay), and both had finally died by the last second of the series. That’s it.

If I’ve missed anything, please feel free to enlighten me. Otherwise, I’ll circle back with the links I’m missing to the posts I mentioned above. We all deserved better for these shows after investing so much time in both meaning, the endings should have made some goddamn sense (looking at you SPN) and some better sense (hello GoT, my old friend).

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yyh-revival · 6 years

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Ok so about hxh I don't dislike the show it's a good show. But the reason I prefer yyh is the set up makes more sense. It makes sense for a place like the demon world to have a fucked up tournament like the black tournament. The stuff that Koenma's dad pulled to fuck over demons given the system and that kind of character. You know what doesn't make sense? Giving known assasins and psychopaths more access and power. In HxH becoming a hunter means you get access to all sorts of locations pt.1

That regular civilians dont have access to and a liscence to kill without getting into trouble and all sorts of other shit. And they give that power to Hisoka who never tries to hide the fact he just likes killing people and randomly killed one of the examiners last time. And Illumi a assasin who freely admits that he wanted the liscence for a job. He says this to the people in charge of the exam. And he still gets his liscence what the fuck. Not to mention his family the secret pt2

oldeck family who the public doesnt know their faces have a house so famous that tour guide point it out while going through the city. Like it might have unbelievable security but why would you risk people knowing? Not that it’s a bad show or I dont enjoy it. I’m not that far into the series. But things like that kinda take out of it. It kinda takes me out of it. Especially when this world isnt like this world of chaos its actually kinda like our world. Or supposed to be Pt.3

Yes, I have to confess the setting didn’t sit right with me, either. I typically enjoy fantasy (in fact it’s my #1 favorite genre, and my preferred to write in, whether that’s high fantasy like LOTR or something like Fullmetal Alchemist, or even modern fantasies like stories about vampires, etc. All of my childhood favorites have fallen into this category… aaaand still do haha)

But the setting always did feel strange to me. I never understood who or what was in control of this Hunter licence, and why they were giving them out to children, or what the point of them even was.

More under the cut. Long analysis of character, slightly more productive than what I wrote yesterday, and some more dissing of HxH (I’m sorry) and its poor management of plot, setting, and character. Also, from now on, tagging all discussions and comparisons of HxH and YYH as HHD (for hunter hunter discussion) to keep it out of the hxh tag.

Once again, this is all just my opinion, my personal feelings, and are not meant to grade the merit of the show or insult anyone who enjoyed it!

See, I typically also like “secret clubs.” But I like them being fleshed out. In Mass Effect, we know what a Specter is. They have almost unlimited power, but 1) they answer to a council which can strip them of this power, and 2) they have a clear goal – serving the council and the interest of the council races.

For YYH, we have the same thing. Yusuke has more power than the average human, having the authority to kill and having access to knowledge most humans do not have. But he 1) answers to Koenma, 2) has a clear goal of protecting the innocent from evil demons and other psychic phenomena.

And that stuff is outlined the MOMENT our protagonists enter the secret club, in clear words, and it doesn’t take, you know, forever… But HxH, I have no idea what the whole Hunter organization even is? I looked it up and turns out I saw the whole 1st season, 31 episodes… and I have no idea what this hunter thing is.

So yes, I totally agree. For comparison, in YYH, we go through a rather good introduction to Spirit World all before episode 5, an intro to what Spirit Detectives are without learning all the details, but enough to understand, by what, episode 8ish? We learn how Spirit World can bend rules with Kurama and Hiei within the first few episodes, too. We learn Spirit World is a bureaucracy, that it has rulers and managers (Enma and Koenma), that it is occupied by mostly two species (ogres and Spirit World citizens, who are like spirits, neither alive nor dead), that they have prisons, that they take interest in human lives and society, that they have the power to revive the dead but that there are clear rules and procedures. We learn Spirit World citizens can inhabit human bodies made specifically for them. We learn Spirit World can unlock human’s innate spiritual awareness. We learn the Spirit Detective job is sorta a new and untested thing (sending a kid to fight 3 demons… Koenma seriously didn’t think the job through yet). We learn Spirit World houses powerful treasures like the 3 artifacts. We learn they have a freakin’ treasure room to start with. We learn you can break into Spirit World and its vaults. We learn that living creatures, even demons, can enter it. We learn spirits and living creatures can interact with each other as if both were on the same plane, tangible and all, while in Spirit World. We learn Spirit World watches and records events of interest in the Human World, sometimes flat out spying on humans like when they watch Keiko being chased or when the little girl (the investigator) stalks Keiko along with Yusuke and Botan. We learn ghosts aren’t allowed to stay forever in the human world. We learn that the spirit and the body have separate energies that converge together. We learn Spirit World uses actual technology, not just magic, like VHS types and pocket watches. We learn Spirit World citizens can live incredibly long lives and look like babies while being a couple hundred years old or more.

^^ See all that? That’s what I know about Spirit World from watching the first EIGHT episodes. Episode 9 Yusuke enters Genkai’s tournament… How insanely concise is that? Episode 8, and we know so much about just one aspect of this world.

Whereas HxH? episode 31… and I still have zero clue what hunters are, what their purpose is, what they can do, who they work for if anyone, what the qualifications for them are (just being able to fight?) We know nothing. 31 episodes!!

For another comparison, by episode 31, Yusuke is in the Dark Tournament, fighting Chuu. By this point, we had all four main characters go through the first cycle of their character arcs, we were introduced to most of the supporting cast, we had relationships established, we got backstory on some characters, we learned how spirit energy and psychics work more, we saw Yusuke begin his second cycle, we saw the introduction of a major villain… we had a lot. Whereas with HxH, all I remember is the damn big boat in the storm thing.

Speaking of character arcs… I wrote this in a response to something else, but I think it also makes my point here. I am incredibly fascinated with character arcs and character in general, even more than plot or setting or anything else. To me, character is all. So here’s my breakdown of some character growth within the first 8 episodes.

YYH never really feels like it drags, maybe only in those moments I mentioned before. But it had an incredibly strong opening. Excluding Hiei, within the first 7-8 episodes, we have two characters (kurama and Yusuke) go through full character arcs that affect them all the way down the line of the show. The other two join after episode 25, though we also get to see glimpses of character background and some development even earlier (Kuwabara’s sensitive side is shown with the kitty, his devotion to friends, his honor code – all before episode 8 as well, but that’s not really an arc. He doesn’t have one till about the Yukina Rescue arc concludes. Though his is a bit weak, mostly because Kuwabara was… pretty alright to start with? It’s hard to develop when there isn’t many places you can go. And out of all the 4 boys, Kuwabara had the least amount of baggage.)

For Yusuke, we have the theme of “caring/not caring.” Yusuke stars off believing no one loves him and that he’s better off not being in anyone’s life. The wake proves him wrong enough that he makes an effort to come back. Then when he thinks he’s missed his chance by throwing the egg, and sees his friends and family happily talking about him returning, he mourns because he knows he’s not coming back. 180 from “meh, ima stay a ghost it’s better I’m not in their lives.” So, he goes through a complete cycle just in that moment, from I don’t care, to I do care and I’m happy, to I do care and I am sad. Not just a simple arc, from point A to point B, but A to B to C. It’s a very well constructed growth of a character. Full arch, full growth, and that’s why it tugs at the heartstrings. Because the moment he started to care… he thought lost his chance.

That arc he goes through all before episode 5 cycles throughout the show, and makes us care because such a strong arc, such an emotional one, too, grabs the viewer’s heart by the balls and refuses to let go.

It cycles in the Suzaku fight – he experiences horrible pain to save people, but in order to really motive himself, he must see Keiko in danger. He’s getting there, to the point of caring about humanity, but not quite. Then in the Dark Tournament, the lives of multiple people hang on his victory. But they’re still mostly people he cares about, though now that has extended beyond Keiko into Shizuru, Kuwabara, Kurama, Hiei, Yukina, etc., all of those people. He’s getting there, increasing the circle of people he cares for.

It keeps going up, challenging Yusuke to care more. The hospital had Keiko and shizuru in it. But also the new psychics. Then Sensui threatening all of humanity. Then the 3 kings arc threatening all of the realms. Yusuke progressively gives more of a shit about more people with time and new challenges and as he earns more friends.

And all of that is outlined in he first Fucking 4 episodes!! We know what hsi arc is, we know where he is going, we know what sort of character he is, and we get to see him become truly fleshed out in just 4 episodes.

That’s just Yusuke, too. Kurama also has a complete arc within the span of like two or three episodes, and those themes cycle throughout the show. (guilt, suicide and redemption – think Ura Urishima fight, when Kurama projects his want to sacrifice himself for Shiori to make up for his deception, where he tells the guy that suicide has no honor or redemption in it, even though the guy didn’t care for that, his lie was about getting out of having to hurt people without causing harm to his grandmother, not about redeeming himself – family, lies, the better of two evils – to lie to shiori and stay with her so she has a son, or stop lying to her and punish self for stealing her “real son” away)

It’s consistent, mostly concise, cyclical, and oh so fucking satisfying to my literature loving senses….

And then hxh… where apparently nothing of substance happens in the first Twenty Freakin Episodes. I legit cannot tell you about any character growth in that time. Or plot? They take a test. For who knows how long. Uh… kurapika starts to like leorio when before he didn’t? So he gets friendlier?? Maybe?? Killua begins a friendship with gon instead of getting himself that therapist… they play a ball game together. That gets them to like each other so much Gon goes chasing after Killua when he goes missing at the end of the season. Uh…. they are faced with the horror of fighting people they had to cooperate with before I guess. *shrugs*

If you put a gun against my head, the only character growth or arc I could maybe try to name for the first 30 episodes is that Kurapika started to like Leorio and starts to address him with a bit more respect, cause they worked together, so uh… nope, nope, that’s not an arc in the slightest. Kurapika can simply be a person who doesn’t like others until he gets to know them… So yes, I’d get a bullet in the head.

And the fact that you need to skip the whole beginning of the show to even enjoy it, as @perpetuallyfrowning suggested … I can’t do that. I cannot enjoy any change in Gon if I don’t know where he was before. But I hate where he was before, and we’re stuck with that for so long… Even if you didn’t like Yusuke’s personality at first, you only have to deal with it for a bit because he changes so much so quickly.

So there it is, my rather lazy analysis of the beginning of YYH and HxH, looking at setting and character.

- Mod Lola

#ask #anon #analysis #meta #character analysis #setting analysis #hhd #yusuke #character arc #mod talk

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pandirpus · 6 years

Note

Top 5 characters who shouldn't have died in canon, Top 5 characters who SHOULD have died in canon (or alternately who's death you'd be chill with) and top 5 types of sushi?

Top 5 characters who shouldn’t have died in canon

1. All fictional moms, and love interests, and other fridged female characters. All the queers and PoCs who just died for drama or shock value. You know, these kinds of deaths that ruin my enjoyment of shows and movies.

2. Marlene and Tess, TLOU. Especially Marlene. Like, I get the impact it’s supposed to have and it is a strong story telling moment, but. She was an amazing WoC character in an apocalypse setting and I can’t accept that this was the only way to make that point. I enjoyed Marlene so much, I just cannot deal with her death. (TLOU, while a really good game in many other areas, has a problem with killing off all PoC characters… I honestly hope TLOU 2 will be better in that regard.)

3. Boromir, LotR. I really love Boromir, and I am forever cry that he couldn’t have made it with Aragorn and Co. to Rohan, heavily wounded, and then return home after recovering, and fight valiantly in the war to then help Aragorn rule Gondor?? I also have little love for redemption deaths for characters who didn’t even fuck up all that badly.

4. Jet, ATLA. Thing is, I personally didn’t mind back then, but then I realized later that it was rushed, unnecessary, and reeks of ‘if you rebel against oppressors, you end up just like them, and apparently only death can redeem you’. Why kill off the traumatized young dude just because he did not cope all that well.

5. Harry Potter deaths were so unnecessary and gratuitous, like did Harry really have to lose both father figures? And did Hedwig and Dobby have to die just to show things are now darker and Harry is maturing? And idc about Fred, but it was weird to have a family member of the Weasleys just die in the background like that. Too many deaths just to be DARK and SERIOUS.

I’m sure there were fictional deaths I was even more pissed at, but those fall under category 1 probably anyway, and I tend to try to erase them from my memory as fast as possible.

Top 5 characters who SHOULD have died in canon (or alternately who’s death you’d be chill with)

I’d probably be chill with a lot of deaths, especially if it’s not the only or one of the few female/PoC/queer characters the story has, and if the death has an impact on the plot and significance to the character’s arc.

I honestly can’t come up with a full list though, because I could potentially be chill or even really here for it with a lot of characters, but it depends on how it’s handled. I personally don’t mind fictional characters dying, not even my faves, if it’s satisfying with regard to their story. What I’m not here for is characters dying randomly, and I wouldn’t wish death on characters just because I personally don’t care much for them or because they did something wrong - I’d prefer better writing, development, etc.

I do love characters dying if it’s aesthetically nice, though, especially if they don’t really die or can come back etc. And there’s probably a lot of trash idiots I wouldn’t even feel the least bit sad about and where I’d love the drama and the self-destructiveness of it.

1. Seto Kaiba, YGO. The only example that comes to mind where I actually like the idea of the character dying in canon? It’s definitely a matter of debate whether he died, and I personally don’t think it’s actually canon, but tbh. Rip. I like all that this interpretation entails, too. But then again, I just really like unhealthy self-destructiveness in fictional characters.

2. Connor in Detroit Become Human. It’s a potential canon that he dies a lot, and it’s my fave for the aesthetic and for the fact that every Connor gets replaced by another Connor model and that is honestly the best part of the game because it explores the whole android thing in an interesting way for once.

3. Maybe Ford Pines, Gravity Falls? Not really in canon though, probably, because I’m not sure Stan would ever get over that. But I enjoy Ford dying in fan content a whole lot. It certainly is an aesthetic. :>

Top 5 Types of Sushi:

1. Special veggie roll (with any combination of kappa, kampyo, oshinko, tofu or tamago) feat. avocado wrapped in avocado.

2. Crunchy rolls.

3. Avocado maki. I just love avocado in sushi and this is peak perfection.

4. Special veggie rolls with cream cheese.

5. Tamago nigiri.

#ask meme #samcybercat

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dowagerintraining · 7 years

Text

Asking For Help

Hello everyone

I have posted this on facebook, but I am hoping that some of the people on Tumblr, even though we have never met, might have a little sympathy for my story, and may be willing to help me out. If you can’t, or don’t want to, I don’t blame you. After all, for all that I write #Banna fanfic and share silly memes and cat pictures, I am just a random bunch of pixels on the internet to most of you. Some of you know me from Tumblr, a handful of you know me in real life, and many of you known me from fanfiction.net, where I write under the same username. Some of you don’t know me at all. I am at my wits end right now. And frankly willing to try anything. Anything at all. So here’s the story. My husband and I have been trying to move to New Zealand for the past two years. I have an interview for a job there tomorrow, to start at the end of January. It might all be about to come together. And in those few moments, it all might be about to fall apart financially. I don’t know how to make this work any more, for him, for me, and for our beloved fur babies, our beautiful cats. I need to ask for help, and so this is what I’m doing. Here is the link to the GoFundMe that I have set up. But if you want the details, you can also access them under the cut.

https://www.gofundme.com/help-the-halls-get-to-new-zealand

I’m not truly believing that I am doing this. But I guess that nobody who starts a ‘GoFundMe’ ever imagines themselves in this position. It’s 1 o’clock in the morning and I can’t sleep, and can’t get my brain to switch off and wind down because I can’t see a way through this right now. So hello everyone. I am asking for your help. Many of you may already be aware that we, my husband Spike and I, have been investigating moving to New Zealand. We’ve been pursuing this for many reasons. We’ve been looking into this for two years now and this is absolutely the right thing for us to do, to secure our future prosperity, to guarantee our own going health and well-being and to give us the life that we need in order to be healthy and happy people.

And I need to ask for your help towards making this happen.

This is not a honeymoon. It’s not a wild dream holiday, trekking through beautiful middle earth wilderness. It is not the trip of a lifetime. It is a solid, well researched and absolutely necessary change to our lives.

1) we need a clean break from the UK, to leave our old lives behind and build a future. We both have so much baggage and we know that this is our best hope to make a firm and final break and get on with building our lives. My husband Spike has worked hard to overcome a rocky start in life. Those of you who know us personally know that he has fought a brave battle against mental health problems, and with support and encouragement he can defeat this and life a healthy and wonderful life. However, living here in the UK is like living in a personal haunted house, full of many of the worst memories and fears, and we need to move away in order for him to gain his emotional and mental freedom.

2) the brexit process and changes to FE funding means that funding for my job (English and Maths in adult education) may not be so plentiful or readily available as it has been before and I need to make sure I can work in a career to support my family. I have already had to change jobs every 1-2 years as companies can lose funding and go bust, or hand back contracts, with very little notice. Job stability does not exist in my sector, and after 7+ years of this, I am exhausted and not sure how much more I can take.

3) the education system in NZ is an excellent match for me. I didn’t choose NZ because LOTR was pretty, I chose it because I read their national curriculum and fell in love. I realised I had been teaching on the wrong side of the world. This isn’t speculation, I know this. I have already completed my NZ teaching course. I excelled at it. My professor told me that so far in my career I had been ‘a fish in the wrong ocean’ and I needed to ‘get out to NZ and start working there as soon as possible.’ I had a brilliant experience working at a NZ high school, far better than any other place/sector I have worked in while in the UK. I passed my course with flying colours, scoring ‘Highly Developed’ in two categories of criteria and ‘Well Developed’ in the third. This is where I am supposed to be.

4) NZ is an excellent match for us. A better work life balance, good future prospects, a healthcare system that works for our needs, and education system that works for my career.

Many of you knew this already, but it never hurts to write it down. And now I am going to ask for your help.

So why are you asking for help now? What’s changed?

Well, in short, I’m starting to get offered interviews for positions in New Zealand, and suddenly the clock is ticking awfully loudly.

I have one coming up tomorrow, and the chances of me being offered the job are looking EXTREMELY promising. There are another three schools who have asked for my references and been in touch about potential interviews. After two long years of trying, these people want me to go and work for them. The schools are looking for someone to start in late January 2018.

All of the hard work so far has paid off, and it has been a long two year slog. This stuff is long and complicated and costs so far have included:

1) Applying for passports for both of us (£145)

2) Applying for two different police certificates (approx. £100)

3) Assessing all of my qualifications to have them accepted by New Zealand’s Education Council (£370)

4) Enrolling on and completing the TERP (Teacher Education Refresher Programme). This included fees of £2000, Flights to NZ of £1200, living expenses for the month, including £400 rent, £400 food and £200 travel costs. I also had to cover our rent at home and Spike’s living costs for the month, which were the same again. All in all, completing the TERP has cost me more than £5500.

5) Applying for my registration as a teacher with the education council. (£150)

Due to the strict rules on exporting animals, we’ve had to start planning for Boomer and Athena to come with us months in advance. This has included Rabies vaccinations (£100) and blood tests to confirm the success of the vaccinations (£220).

This process, so far, has cost over £6000, and we are barely half way there.

Talk about what the support will mean to you

Sitting down tonight, knowing that I have an interview tomorrow, I am suddenly faced with the true facts of how much money we need to find in the next three months and I don’t know where we’re going to get it.

We had hoped that we were going to get some help financially relocating. But this support is not available to non-Kiwis.

I had been pursuing a legal case against an irresponsible lender, but after six months I have still not heard whether my case is going to be fully investigated, and even if it is, the outcome could take months more. One by one our avenues of income are closing off, and just as things are looking likely, my hopes for ways to pay for them are looking close to non-existent.

I am already working as hard as I can. I work full time, in a demanding job. I run my own tutoring business, offering private maths and English tuition. I have, at the moment, 13 clients on top of my full time job. I teach, on average, two people per day for intensive 1-to-1 support, on top of working full time, and three people have sessions with me each day on weekends, sometimes for two hours each. I don’t have days off unless someone cancels an appointment. I used all of my paid annual leave to go to New Zealand and work full time for my placement. On top of that, I took on a third job this year marking 720 GCSE examination scripts over the summer. At peak season, I worked from 7am until 10pm Monday to Friday, and 9am to 10pm Saturday and 9am to 6pm on Sunday. I felt guilty for taking Sunday night off, but I needed some time in the week to do my university coursework.

I wish that was an exaggeration. It is not.

I cannot physically squeeze any more pennies out of my time. Everything I have that is worth something, that I can physically bear to part with, has been sold. The car will be sold to cover the remaining finance owing on it before we go. We are in rented accommodation. Our furniture and fittings are second hand and falling apart, but will have to make the trip with us. We don’t have any more assets that can be liquidised.

Your support will mean that we can do this, that I can stop working myself into a state for hours at a time, unable to sleep in the small hours of the morning, on a hair trigger temper every time someone reminds me what all this is going to cost, frightened that this dream, this chance of a healthy and happy life, is going to slip through our hands and leave us stranded because I cannot make the numbers add up.

Describe who will benefit

In short … we will. Me, my husband Spike, and our two beloved cats.

Not only will this make our dream come true, it will:

· Offer my husband a genuine chance to overcome his past and secure his health for the future

· Keep our family together, preventing us from having to surrender the cats to a lifetime of rescue centre care. Athena is a three legged cat with complex future needs, Boomer is a black cat, and they are a bonded pair. Their chances of being adopted are statistically extremely low. And even leaving that aside, they are our family, and we cannot leave them behind. They belong with us.

· Allow me to make the move with my physical and mental health intact without driving myself down and through exhaustion and a possible physical breakdown, before arriving and going straight into the equivalent of an NQT year.

Detail what the funds will be used for

At present, this is the breakdown of what we need.

As soon as possible, we need to get our immigration medicals done. These are likely to be complicated and referred to New Zealand for second opinion, as Spike has both physical (diabetes) and mental (PTSD) health issues. I also have physical (asthma) and mental (anxiety) health histories which will need to be referred. The longer this takes, the tighter the deadlines get, and we are now up against a ticking clock.

They cost up to £400 each and can only be done by a specified list of consultants, in a limited number of locations. We need to raise £800 for this as soon as possible

Assuming that I can get an essential skills VISA, this will cost me approximately £200 to apply for. This also needs to be started the day I get a job offer, or as soon as possible after that.

We have received a quote for how much it will cost for us to take Boomer and Athena to New Zealand. The quote is £1700, via one of the very few companies who work with New Zealand’s department for dealing with importing live animals. On top of that, they both need to be in quarantine in Auckland, which needs to be booked and paid for before they can be booked on a flight out. We are looking at costs of up to £2000 to take our furry family members with us, not including going back to Auckland to collect them and transport them to wherever we end up.

Then there’s our own stuff. This is going to have to be (in the case of our outdoor gear) professionally cleaned (to meet rules on contamination prevention regarding organic matter), packed and shipped, and then transported by road to wherever we end up. Including insurance, cleaning and the packing/shipping/delivery, this is going to cost in the region of £2000.

Then, there are our flights. Current prices are looking at around £700 per one way ticket, and we are going to need two. This will enable us to fly economy to New Zealand, to one of the major airports, from Heathrow. For this, we need to budget approx. £1500 (which will include insurance for us both for the journey). We won’t be flying business or better – that would more than double the cost.

Finally, there’s the small matter of what we do when we get there. We need somewhere to live. You KNOW how expensive it is moving to a new house in this country. It’s the same abroad. You need agency fees, 2 weeks rent in advance and four weeks bond. Assuming we can get a place that is comparable in cost to where we currently live, we need to find £800 to pay up front, in advance, to secure somewhere for us to live, before our stuff arrives and before we go to collect our furry family members from quarantine. Our options are already reduced, as not everywhere allows pets, and we have effectively ruled ourselves out of shared accommodation with that clause. And so beggers might not be able to be choosers. We will have to take what we can get and not haggle.

This does not even cover some of the costs we will need to address once there. Such as getting a car, travelling from the airport to wherever we end up, finding a hotel room to sleep in when we land after a 30+ hour journey. I am hopeful that we can raise funds to cover that. We should be able to get (some of) the deposit back on the flat. I will have my final salary from my employer, and I should be entitled to some redundancy pay, but it won’t be much due to the caps introduced in 2017 and the fact that I am under 40. I am still pursuing the legal case, but the time frame on that has turned to jelly.

I am not giving up. I will keep working all of the hours that every God sends me. I will keep tutoring. I will keep scraping and saving. I will take the resit marking this winter if it is offered to me. But I am living in fear right now that this will not be enough.

Explain how soon you need the funds

I am currently interviewing for jobs to start in 2018 at the end of January. Ideally, we need to be in New Zealand by around the 20th of January. The cats can’t actually leave the country before that point, so they might have to follow us later, which is an additional headache to consider.

The thing is, everything needs to be done before then. Our medicals need to be done as soon as humanly possible. See above for reasons why.

Once that’s done, the VISA needs to be applied for, and they can take up to three months, so that also needs to be started the day I get a job offer.

The longer we wait, the more expensive and complicated things will become. We need to pay a 25% deposit for the cats’ international transfer 6-8 weeks before we leave, so by early December.

We need to contact a removal company for an accurate storage quote and pay a deposit to secure their services.

The longer we wait for the flights, the more expensive they will get. January is summer time in New Zealand, the flights are in peak season over there, as are all the accommodation options and internal transport options (car hire, bus, train, etc) to get us from the airport to wherever we end up staying.

In short we need to raise this money now. As soon as possible. Otherwise, the whole thing is potentially going to fall through.

Share how grateful you will be for help

I have absolutely no right to ask for any of this. I can’t promise that there is anything in it for any of you, beyond knowing that you have helped us to achieve this dream. Should you ever make it out to NZ and turn up on our doorstep, our welcome and hospitality is open to you. But that was already the case.

I’m really struggling for words to write this without sounding like a hackneyed X Factor contestant. This is our biggest shot at being happy and living a health life, rather than just surviving. This has been our every waking, breathing and speaking moment for the last two years. It will be until we get there. This will change our lives. And not in the sun-shiny Hollywood sense, but by giving us a shot at the future we want and need so dearly.

I have set the total for this to cover what we need to get out there. But in all honesty, if it raises anything at all, I will cry with gratitude, because it will mean that people are willing to help us and we don’t have to carry this on our own.

#help #request #gofundme #new zealand #moving #moving with cats #mental health #teaching

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wegotintoacoma · 7 years

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Tagged by @more-than-useless. Thank you for tagging me, Jo!

1. Which book has been on your shelves the longest?

I don’t even remember when I started buying books instead of just borrowing them from the library, but probably some of my first ones were Percy Jackson. Oh and my Bible. And Fox In Socks by Dr Seuss if you count books that technically weren’t mine/on my shelf to begin with, but have since migrated to my shelf cause it’s always been a favorite and my mom was gonna give it away

2. What is your current read, your last read and the book you’ll read next?

Well I just finished my book a few hours ago, so my last read was The Names They Gave Us by Emery Lord, but as of a few hours ago my last read was Lord Of Shadows by Cassandra Clare. And I have no idea what book I’m reading next

3. Which book does everyone like and you hated?

I don’t think I’ve read a book that fits this category???

4. Which book do you keep telling yourself you’ll read, but you probably won’t?

Oh boy. So many. Basically just a lot of stuff on my to-read list on goodreads. I mean I probably have some on my bookcase that I’ve had for a long while and am probably never going to read, but I still keep them in the hopes of one day reading them

5. Which book are you saving for “retirement?”

I haven’t really thought about this before.... Yeah I don’t think I really have an specific books

6. Last page: read it first or wait till the end?

Wait till the end

Unless I accidentally read some of it because I’m looking at how many pages are in the book

7. Acknowledgements: waste of ink and paper or interesting aside?

I don’t necessarily think they’re a waste, but I only skim them if I read them at all

8. Which book character would you switch places with?

So many books character have messed up lives and live in really messed up and dangerous worlds whyyyy. But also like one reason I’d want to switch places with a book character is just to meet all the other book characters in the book(s). Soooooo no idea

9. Do you have a book that reminds you of something specific in your life (a person, a place, a time)?

So the first one that comes to mind I haven’t actually read (LOTR), but I have a lot of friends (mostly gr friends) that talk about it, so I always think of them when I hear/see something related. Also Les Mis. But technically then they talk about the musical and not the book (I believe). Nothing else that stands out in my mind rn

10. Name a book you acquired in some interesting way.

Hm. I get most of my books at/from thrift stores/library book sales/book stores/books my sisters are giving away/gifts. I guess I haven’t really gotten any books in an interesting way. Possibly a white elephant/gift exchange

11. Have you ever given away a book for a special reason to a special person?

I’ve bought books for people before for their birthday or christmas. I’ve loaned books out too (some of which I got back slightly coming apart cause they were taken to the pool). Don’t think I’ve ever really given a book away for any special reason/to a special person

12. Which book has been with you to the most places?

Probably my Bible. Other than that I don’t really take my books places unless it’s just the one I’m reading at the moment and it goes with me wherever I end up going

13. Any “required reading” you hated in high school that wasn’t so bad ten years later?

Well I don’t think I’ve reread many books I’ve read in school, and if so they were either poetry books (which I’m pretty much indifferent about (but I like Edgar Allen Poe)) or books my mom read aloud to me and my sisters multiple times cause us younger siblings were going through a year that them older siblings had already gone through (and some I liked and some I’m indifferent towards). Maybe eventually I’ll reread some of the books I read and actually didn’t like

14. What is the strangest item you’ve ever found in a book?

I think once or twice I just found notes of some sort that someone had stuck in there. But I once put something in a books before I gave it away. So storytime folks: so you know in the Artemis Fowl series? And how they have stuff written in gnommish running across the bottom of all the pages? Well years ago when I got the first book, I started translating it. I never finished and I was cleaning out my books a few months ago and I decided to give the book away. So what I did was I stuck what I had translated in the book and wrote a little note on it and gave it away. I just hope that the papers actually stayed in the book for someone else to enjoy my translations

15. Used or brand new?

Okay so I like both, but I mostly get used. They each have their own pros so it’s hard to choose. And they both smell good in different ways so uuuuuugh

16. Stephen King: Literary genius or opiate of the masses?

Never read any of his books, possibly seen one or two (or parts of) the movies

17. Have you ever seen a movie you liked better than the book?

I feel like I have but I can’t remember what movie that was......

18. Conversely, which book should NEVER have been introduced to celluloid?

See the problem with that isn’t necessarily that they were introduced, it’s that they were executed poorly. aka PJO and ATLA. And of course there are always elements to book-to-movie films that people won’t like (I have few with some movies)

19. Have you ever read a book that’s made you hungry, cookbooks being excluded from this question?

Oh yes. Oh boy yes. I can’t remember what books specifically, but I know it’s happened. More than once

20. Who is the person whose book advice you’ll always take?

No one’s? Like, I am/can be very picky (in more than just books), so I only like half trust other people’s opinions when they recommend books to me

Okay so let’s tag @bananannabeth, @padmeadmidala, @elvendragonlord, @percytheslytherin, and anyone else who feels like it :)

#my post #tagged

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makumii · 8 years

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92 TRUTHS TAG

Rules: once you have been tagged you are supposed to write 92 truths about yourself. at the end, choose 25 people to tag! Tagged by @lizcantspell thanks <3 LAST… 1. drink: tea 2. phone call: my mom I guess? 3. text message: to a cloe friend 4. song you listened to: idk, something on the radio 5. time you cried: good question...last week? HAVE YOU EVER… 6. dated someone twice: no, but there’s a person I wouldn’t mind dating a second time 7. been cheated on: yup and I’m still not over it 8. kissed someone and regretted it: not really? 9. lost someone special: does my gramps count? 10. been depressed: depends on the definition of depressed 11. gotten drunk and thrown up: nope. LIST 3 FAVOURITE COLOURS: 12. Blue 13. Red 14. Purple

IN THE LAST YEAR HAVE YOU… 15. made new friends: Yup 16. fallen out of love: Sort of 17. laughed until you cried: Too often 18. found out someone was talking about you: Not that I know of. 19. met someone who changed you: Kinda 20. found out who your true friends are: More or less 21. kissed someone on your facebook list: Yap.. GENERAL… 22. How many of your facebook friends do you know in real life: About 80% 23. Do you have any pets: a cat 24. Do you want to change your name: Not rn. I learned to live with it. 25. What did you do for your last birthday: Had an english exam at school and ate cake with 2 friends. 26. What time did you wake up: 7:00 am 27. What were you doing at midnight last night: played Tales of Berseria 28. Name something you cannot wait for: getting an apprenticeship 29. When was the last time you saw your mother: about 6 hours ago 30. What is one thing you wish you could change about your life: Get rid of that thing where u put off things until it’s almost too late. Executive something. 31. What are you listening to right now: Netflix 32. Have you ever talked to a person named tom: Does it count as a nickname? If so, yes. 33. Something that is getting on your nerves: long distance and summer. 34. Most visited website: Tumblr and youtube. 35. Elementary: Living hell, at least the last 2 years 36. High school: Not fond of that time, but it wasn’t too bad 37. College: currently about to drop out, it was hell, except the 3 cool people and my awesome teachers 38. Hair colour: Dark brown and purple 39. Long or short hair: short c: 40. Do you have a crush on someone: Beside the typical fictioal characters and actors, actually yes. (I tend to crush very easily) 41. What do you like about yourself? my small wrists? Honestly idk. 42. Piercings: Nope. 43. Blood type: I don’t have a single clue. B I think?? 44. Nickname: Maku c: 45. Relationship status: Single for more than a year *sob*. 46. Zodiac sign: Scorpio 47. Pronouns: Don’t matter to me, but they/them would be nice (*didijustoutmyself?maybe*) 48. Fav tv show: Doctor Who, Avatar 49. Tattoos: I really want some. Still deciding on a design 50. Right or left handed: Right FIRST… 51. surgery: They removed the thing in my stomach that tends to inflame and is pretty much useless. What’s it called in english...... 52. piercing: Nope 53. best friend: Alina, from elementary. We’re still friends :D 54. sport: Basketball. I wasn’t even that bad, I just was unable to run fast 55. vacation: I remember was to that farm in carinthia, we’re still regulars there 56. pair of trainers: Who knows that?! RIGHT NOW… 57. eating: A sandwich 58. drinking: Water 59. i’m about to: eat lunch and draw clothes for my bjd 60. listening to: Netflix..wait wasn’t that question already in another category? 61. waiting for: Replys to my applications, my mom to decide if I can have the bjd I want 62. want: a frickin apprenticeship and a bjd. 63. get married: maybe if I find the right person? 64. career: actually english teacher, but more realistically would be working as an IT dude WHICH IS BETTER… 65. hugs or kisses: Hugs 66. lips or eyes: Eyes 67. shorter or taller: No preference 68. older or younger: no preference eighter, but shouldn’t be more than 5 years eighter direction 69. romantic or spontaneous: ??? 70. nice arms or nice stomach: Again, no preference 71. sensitive or loud: I can adapt do both so.. 72. hook up or relationship: Relationship 73. troublemaker or hesitant: Honestly I don’t know HAVE YOU EVER… 74. kissed a stranger? I’m a cosplayer. Comes with the hobby. (Not neccessairy) 75. drank hard liquor? Depends on the definition of ‘hard’ 76. lost glasses/contact lenses? More often than I’m willing to admit 77. turned someone down: Once or twice 78. sex on first date? No way 79. broken someone’s heart? Yep and I’m still sorry about that 80. had your own heart broken? More than once, that’s for sure 81. been arrested? Nope and I don’t intend to. 82. cried when someone died? Do movies count, then yes. 83. fallen for a friend: Daily buisness... DO YOU BELIEVE IN… 84. yourself? Not really 85. miracles? Sort of. 86. love at first sight? No way this exists 87. santa claus? Never did, since we have the Christkind here xD (but I stopped believing in that when I was, like, 4) 88. kiss on the first date? If the moment and person’s right, sure, why not. 89. angels? Kinda. OTHER… 90. current best friend: this pal: @rainmon 91. eye colour: Mine? Blue-grey-ish 92. favourite movie: Of all time? The Treasure Planet. Or the LotR/Hobbit movies. Or Moana. Or....u get the point? I have way too many

I tag: No one / everyone that wants to do this <33

#got tagged

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fdcpk2020 · 5 years

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Sam Allberry - Singleness in God’s family; day 2

Session 2

• Struggles of singleness - feeling lack of decency, Loneliness and isolation, sexual temptations, trying to stay holy • Invest in friendships while you’re single! (Or you’ll regret not doing so) • Choice between marriage and singleness shouldn’t be between marriage and loneliness • Biblical view of Intimacy • In our skewed world, Can’t view depth of friendships without thinking of sex/same sex relationships • You can have lots of sex without experiencing any intimacy • David felt more intimacy in friendship with Jonathan than with his many wives and concubines • Sex cannot create intimacy • Can have lots of intimacy without sex • Friendships • Modern view changed definition of friendship (Facebook anniversary of sharing access to profiles) • LOTR has lots of plot about friendship • You can’t be wise in Gods world without friends • Proverbs is like a twitter feed and each verse a tweet lol • Proverbs 18:24 • Distinguish friendship from companionship • Companion is a familiar acquaintance that comes and goes • Depth of friendships — Hopes, fears, dreams, anxieties (not just dumb stories) • Acquaintanceship • Friendship is for the rest of your life • Friendship is different than a family relationship • Friendship is voluntary and family is obligation • Friendship is Not merely people you hang out with or obligated to through blood • Proverbs is wisdom for real life • In any day, you need a little bits of wisdom for things you encounter in a day (not just dump all one topic per day...) • Proverbs 17:17 • Feature of family is constancy. Showing up in crisis • Friendship loves at all times, not just when there is emergency but In all seasons of life, downs and ups • Friends see the most rounded version of you since they see you at all times • Proverbs 19:4 • The real friend is there for you when you lost everything else • There are lots of fake friends around when you do really well • When you lose everything, the people that stick around are your real friends • Real friendship is not transactional (not just being friends because they see something of value from being friends with you) • Proverbs 27:9 • Sweetness of friend is from earnest counsel • Counsel of his soul, not just superficial advice, but talks to you about things from their heart and counsel you from depths of who they are, even if challenging you and correcting you • Soul to soul relationship • Knows your soul and deeply cares for it • Friend is one you trust secrets with • Proverbs view: • Friendship is someone that really does know what’s going on in your life and sticks around (intimacy) • Intimacy — deeply known and deeply loved at the same time • John 15:15 • Servant is Not the primary category that he places us • Jesus calls us as his friends for: letting someone in on what’s really going on. He’s shared everything he’s learned from father to us • He invited us in and the whole way and told us everything goin on — so that’s what make us friends with him • Who knows you well enough to know how you really are? ** • They don’t need to talk to you to have a sense how to pray for you because already knows what’s going on.... knows your soul that way... what keeps you up at night, what gets you out of bed, knows your worst sins • Married people need friends too (not just single people) • If you don’t have friends, your marriage will implode —> Trying to meet every emotional need they had with just the two of people... • there is depth of intimacy that unmarried won’t know • But as single of person there is breadth of intimacy that can experience and enjoy that married can’t (capacity, time, freedom to invest in those) • Range of friendships that can invest in (wide range of age, different life stages, etc) • Jesus is the ultimate friend • We are meant in local churches to be a intimate family • Word family — what we are meant to be to each other within fellowship of churches • Mark 10: 28-30 • Jesus is assuming people will leave things to follow him • Turning to Jesus means turning from other things (costly time follow him) • Most costly things to leave will be familial and relational • There are people that The moment they follow Christ, they lose their communities and families ((my great grandpa) • Jesus said that following him, Even in this life, it will be worth it, and will receive in this life a hundredfold • The blessings that Jesus promises — abundance of spiritual family • Psalm 68 • God sets the lowly in families • Those that when become disciples left their families, will be Grafted into a new people • We are meant to be fathers mothers sisters and brothers and lands to others — this is our Responsibility • Because then making Jesus out to be a liar if don’t... • Who outside your family has your house key, who calls your house home because of goodness of Jesus to them • Who are you linking arms with and doing life with? • There are “catch up with friends” vs “do life with friends” • We need to do life with friends... don’t need to catch up because already on track with each other • Who are you being spiritual son or daughter to? — be an encouragement to them and learn from them • Family — not just honorary, but real • Blood Jesus is thicker than blood of biology • Having more family as a single person than married person in Christ... if not true then church is making Jesus to be a liar • It can be okay if someone wants to be alone because personality difference, but No one should be lonely • Relationships with unbelievers draw people out of church community • How much of that drawing out is on us? Did we give that person an alternative to leaving the church? (Our responsibility when people leave the church/faith) • If only apparent options are no intimacy or intimacy through unbiblical form of relationship, then more likely to take illicit intimacy to no intimacy • Open homes and lives to one another • Share lives and draw people into your homes • Hospitality is opening lives to other people, not just entertaining **

Q&A

• Friendships that can be completely transparent • 1 John 1:7 if we walk in the light as he is in the light (spiritually honest with each other and confess sins to one another... not just have a cup of coffee with another... not just being superficial) • Friendships — Helping one another to receive grace • Wisdom issue - the particular people you sense it will be good to be open and honest with them • Try to be to others the kind of friendship that we are seeking from others • We need to take into stove ourselves and to serve other people and ask how they are doing • Two attitudes when walk into room “here i am, notice me and come to me” be “there you are, I’m here to serve you” • What makes you an interesting person = Be interested in other people • At church you have choice between being impressive and being known ** (can’t be both) • Being impressive — creating culture that makes others hard to confess sins (facade - culture where ok to be sinners) or be vulnerable • It is toxic for churches if never honest about what is going on in your lives ** • Church — relief and exhale that can be honest • Older and still single — How to protect self from bitterness • Singleness looks different in different stages of life • Needs and experience of those who never married vs have been married (divorced, bereavement, single parent) • Mucking — getting involved • Key = listen to people of what life is like for them • What’s it like being you and what can we do to be a blessing to you • New challenge and new joy in your late life stage • Whatever decade you’re in now, you’re not as dumb as you were in previous decade... (so don’t want to go back to that stage in life) • Culture wants us to resent age • Bible tells us to revere and seek wisdom • What matters most? fading beauty or getting wiser • How does one not give into sexual appetites? • Proverbs 5– don’t learn the hard way what it costs you to fall into sexual sin • Learn through obedience not through disobedience... if you learn from disobedience you’ll regret it • There are people who long term grieve (consequences and fall outs) even decades into the future • Sin feels attractive because of fleeting pleasures • Put off old self of sex ways by putting on new self of something more powerful • Find Christ more beautiful than sin • Best way to say no is to say yes • The explosive power of the new affection — Puritan sermon • Reading bible and praying not just to fulfill righteousness but because went to behold the beauty of God • And if eyes captivated by beauty of Christ, won’t be as tempted • OJ tastes like OJ except after brushing teeth • Your palate has changed • More we behold beauty and grace of Jesus, it changes our palate • Won’t be as good the more we get to know Jesus • Need to hear vividly promises and gospel of Jesus —- there is no condemnation if we come to Christ and repentant of our sins • There are still temporal consequences, but god doesn’t use that against us • As far as East from west removed transgressions from us • If God is looking at our sins then not looking to us... if looking at us then not our sins • East and west is infinite in distance • God begins to change your moral taste buds... and gods grace helps us to pursue holiness • Biblical friendship is not covenantal.. there is commitment but covenant is different • Covenantal exclusive, not sexual but kind of romantic kind of friendship —- mixing categories that are different (dangerous) • CS Lewis - friendship is glad to add another person; it’s not mutually exclusive • Marriage must be exclusive • Same not true in friendship • Friendship not deigned to be exclusive... nature of it is to be opened out and more people folded on • We get more out of friendship when it’s not exclusive (not running into sunset with just that best friend) • Unstable compound if try to make friendship covenantal • When others have different view of friendship, how to press into pursue intimacy in that friendship? • Galatians 3:28 - “no male and female” • Those categories don’t make a difference.. we are justified by faith alone... not the categories that we sort ourselves into in society • What person you are tempted to look down —- that distinction makes no difference in Gods sight (not that it’s not real or affects how we relate to each other) • “Have real intimate friendships spend time with once a week, but still feel lonely every night when go to sleep...” • loneliness — • Need friends to visit me as well, not just me visiting others • If they never come into my house and life... you’re a special guest in their house that day, but they’re not interested in stepping into my world... • Home feels like an isolation chamber... a place where you’re always alone • Home doesn’t feel lonely if there are people in it or fresh memories of people in it • Real relational traffic in your home • How can church more adequately minister to singles when majority of people in church are married? • Understand and listen to single people in the church, and spend time with them • Having a singles ministry can be isolating and make separation worse • Singles need to be integrated into the church family

Panel discussion

• Unsaid hierarchy in church and our own hearts • Thinking your life stage is more important than that of others • Church being primary family unit instead of nuclear family • Sharing weight of responsibilities of a family when living together of singles and married couples w/wo kids • Are you imposing into sacred spaces as single in married families? • Life doesn’t begin when you’re married... life is a gift even for singles • Loneliness is something of the heart and not of your marital status • Can be a lonely single person that can be a lonely married person • It is in the mundane things that real life happens • Enter into real life (with all the mess) and not instagram version of lives (highly filtered highlights) • Marriage is pointing to the thing that points us to Christ (because of disappointments that you find in marriage) • Beautiful picture of Jesus — actively seeking for someone to serve and how to do good for someone else (even when don’t deserve it) —- that’s friendship! • Mephiboshet in bible who was handicapped but welcomed into the family • Shared mission and understanding to be disciples of Christ to serve • Partnerships in biblical friendship and other staff and members (different type of partnership vs marriage) • Greater love has no one than this that he lay down his life for his friends • Posture of — sit back and wait for others to meet me in my terms if singleness vs go out and meeting others where they are • What can I do for others vs what they will do for me • Intergenerational friendship • Deeper intimacy with people not just naturally inclined to and similar age... • Church life will naturally introduce us to one another • Don’t separate people out into groups because then not encountering and getting to know each other • Points of contact to become natural • Everyone always wants to be with people around their life stage (always the bigger community groups) • If only interact with people only in your bound demographic, then complain about things from being only in that life stage • Be a collection of blended parts and not just thumbs • Being with older — wiser and who can speak into you... or you can do that for others younger • Community means sacrifice • (sacrifices of giving up some extra curricular to spend more time in church community) • Children need church family more than they need music lessons.... • Identity issue — being only around self identified primary identity things vs primary identity being in Christ and being family with others • More in common with other believers of different age/life stage/demographics than unbeliever of same demographics • Experiencing sin, disappointment and rejection when trying to be counter cultural and develop biblical friendships • Many people see singleness as a curse... • Hebrews 12 - cast aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely... see the joy set before you • Isaiah 26:3 — have perfect peace when hearts stayed on him • In those groans and unmet desires, the Lord can be using that • Reminder that We are not meant for this world and there is promise of restoration and reconciliation that is going to come that is going to be beautiful— but we’re not there yet • Continue to pray for it even though it’s not in front of you • Trust that the boundaries that God set is good • 2 Corinthians 4:11 • 2 Corinthians 4:16-18 • Luke 9:23-24 • Have to see ourselves as losing ourselves for the sake of Christ • When feel lonely and the burden and weight • Start most days with a psalm • Be honest and don’t be disillusioned • Cry out to God with the honesty of the pain and anxieties and suffering • Pour out the disillusionment out to God and remind self of truth of God • Philippians 4:11 - being content in all circumstances (not asking God to change your circumstances) • God is with you and for you regardless of your circumstances

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