#hunter is a grimwalker clone of phillip's brother

[episodeoftv]

Round 1 of 8, Group 3 of 8

propaganda and summaries are under the cut (May include spoilers)

Spongebob Squarepants: 2.15 The Secret Box/Band Geeks

Curiosity is killing Spongebob as he tries to invite out what is in the box that Patrick keeps with him: Squidward wants to form a marching band.

The Owl House: 2.16 Hollow Mind

tw abuse, genocide

A magical mishap transports Luz and Hunter into a new mindscape - and this one is a twisted nightmare.

Oh my god what an episode. Okay so this episode confirmed so many theories, presented so much lore and jumpstarted so many future developments in one swoop and I adore it so much for it.. I was expecting it to break me when I first saw the episode title and got to scream about it with friends and man did it deliver. First of all, it confirmed so much. It confirms the heavily implied fact that Belos is Phillip Wittebane, and also confirms the theory people had had for a while that Hunter is a Grimwalker. It introduced so much lore solely in the background, with portraits depicting the tragedy of the Wittebane brothers and highlighting Phillip/Belos's inability to stop being a crusty old hater. It confirms the fact that Belos has actively and consciously killed many, whether it's past Grimwalkers or just random witches who he tested sigils on and then left to die. It made the fact that there's still Belos apologists baffling. It gave a really close look at Belos in general, and made it so that even his mindscape was just a grand facade hiding his very bad crimes. It gave me what I consider peak character design (Belos's monster form) for the very first time. It also jumpstarted more than one arc, whether it's Hunter realizing that Belos sucks but also realizing that he could very easily be out to kill him now that he knows that Belos sucks, or Luz's feelings towards herself once she realize that she indirectly helped Belos get to where he is now, that being very close to being able to commit an actual genocide. It's just such an episode and I adore it

how do the owl house writers feel having written peak cinema. truly one of the most episodes of all time (perfect for this poll!). guy finds out literally everything he knew about his life was a lie and that he is a clone of his “uncle’s” brother whom he killed in cold blood, and has been making clones of and abusing and killing for the past four hundred years, and that he is about to commit genocide. girl finds out the man she innocently helped in exchange for helping her get home used her help to execute his plan and he would not have been able to get this close to genocide without her. aired on disney channel. the fandom did not fucking know what to do with themselves

[pandoratheprocrasticreator]

idk im glad they didn't give us any actual details about caleb and evelyn beyond belos's memories and like. fifty-sixth-hand information from masha's story so audience members not paying attention would at least know who they are.

whatever nitty gritty details the audience comes up with on their own for what happened to these two would be infinitely more satisfying to them than what the show would have been able to depict in a flashback. especially working within what's appropriate for children's television.

caleb the person isn't important to the story anymore. the MEMORY of caleb, which belos has never let himself get over in 400 years, is the important thing. and you don't need to know much about caleb for that to work. and while i loved the parallels between the wittebanes and hunter and luz, as well as the clawthornes being a descendent of evelyn, i'm glad they never confirmed it, and it remains situational irony purely for the audience.

hunter's only connection with caleb is his DNA, which also ties back to belos's feelings. him befriending luz is something they did of their own volition. it's not because hunter is fated to play out every beat of caleb's life by virtue of being his clone. similarly, while i love a good hunter clawthorne, dell taking hunter as an apprentice and eda showing care towards him in s2 are because eda is kind to children and hunter independently had passion for palisman carving. it's not because they found out they were related, because the whole show is about found family.

having flashbacks to the real caleb and evelyn wouldn't have contributed anything to the story aside from fanservice. what matters is how belos feels about them. belos's ego and the desperation to be acknowledged by his puritan community and God aside, the idea of caleb haunts his every action. not the actual ghost of caleb-i've already discussed here why the idea of caleb's ghost literally haunting belos would be a poor writing decision. belos knew the person his brother actually was, killed him, and imagined a perfect version of him that he chased after for the next 350 years.

the tragedy is that the perfect version of caleb is unattainable, and now belos can never get the real caleb back. he refuses to acknowledge that caleb may have been flawed before the influence of evelyn. to phillip, everything he thinks is wrong about caleb is because he was corrupted by the boiling isles, and that's part of the reason he starts on a quest to kill all the witches. it's also why he makes so many grimwalkers. he desperately misses that ideal version of caleb, so he makes copies of caleb and plays family with them.

and belos loathes the grimwalkers. he kills them because he hates the magic they were made with. because he hates being reminded of his brother and what happened to him. and of course, he hates the grimwalkers for not meeting his expectations of what his "ideal" caleb would have been like. it's a fluid expectation that belos, subconsciously or not, changes as he goes, all in order to take out his anger on innocent children. he seems to recognize his enjoyment of harming the grimwalkers, though it's unknown if he understands the reason-which is that the "perfect" caleb will never exist, and likely never did. phillip's brother is gone forever, and it's all his fault.

and idk maybe in the writers minds caleb was a perfect brother and baby phillip was just a possessive little shit. or maybe it's the opposite and caleb messed up a lot in communicating with phillip on his relationship with evelyn. maybe evelyn was a perfectly nice girl who was perfectly supportive of caleb and phillip's choices or maybe she hated phillip and the other humans and did convince caleb to leave it all behind. it's a fascinating piece of backstory and i love seeing fanworks that talk about it! but anything more about caleb and evelyn that the creators add in canon would give actual context to their situation that we don't need! their story has been over for 350 years and dont affect any of the other characters beyond how it affects phillip!

nothing more about these two can be said that will contribute more to belos's character that isn't already conveyed with the barebones material we got in the show. this story isn't about "forbidden love," this is about how phillip was confronted with the fact that his brother found happiness outside of him, and that someone he's been taught since childhood to hate may not be all bad. it's about how he plugged his fingers in his ears in response to this and went on a 350 year long killing spree to prove to himself that he can never be in the wrong.

basically, i wouldn't go so far as to call caleb and evelyn's backstory "purposefully unexplained," but i definitely think the story is a lot stronger as it is than it would be if they did explain it all. not every detail of a story needs to have a word of god answer as to how it all went down. sometimes adding in unnecessary detail for completionism's sake just distracts from the point you're actually trying to convey. while there are a lot of things that i wished the show could have explored in more detail had it not been shortened, caleb and evelyn's story is not one of them.

[httyddragonfox]

Caleb Wittebane and what the Hexsquad knows.

So...we didn't get further elaboration on Caleb, we didn't even get a shot of him in the finale. Everyone is saying no one really knows who Caleb was, or if he was evil or not. Of course, they may know more than we think. Let's break down the information the hexsquad has gathered about Caleb in comparison to what we have gathered about Caleb.

First indication for the audience: the grimwalker notes in Eclipse Lake. People looked up what an ortet is, and found out that 'bone of ortet' means bone of the original. The pictures in the book looked a lot like Hunter, we therefore deduced that Hunter is a clone. Before that we thought he was an artificial being meant to be in some ritual of some sort. Even after deducing he was a clone, we rationalized he the original had a purpose to serve which Hunter being a clone could accomplish.

The second indication: Yesterday's Lie. As Vee is walking around town, she passes a statue of someone who looks like Hunter. I'm not sure when people started theorizing that Belos was Phillip, but this made it stronger, so they believed that when Belos came to the isles he had a brother whom he missed and tried to bring back.

Later in the episode we get the FIRST indication of the main characters finding out about him: Jacob's research. "...tragedy struck! Two brothers met a witch and were lured into the Demon Realm, never to be seen again." The second brother is holding a glyph while the first brother has a cardinal on his shoulder, maybe a certain cardinal that Hunter has. This is where the audience learns, that if Belos is Phillip, he had a brother who he must have lost tragically (maybe at eclipse lake?) and he brought him back. The main characters would probably overlook this as a crazy conspiricist talking. So, while they learn about the fact, they probably don't remember it.

In Hunter's palisman observations, another audience tidbit, it is revealed the palisman's name is Flapjack, and Hunter does not know what that is, yet Belos does. Witches do not know flapjacks or pancakes, and Belos does. This hints that Belos is human, and so Hunter is a clone of that Human brother, and Flapjack was his palisman. Flapjack doesn't like talking about it, so he must have died tragically. Hunter knows nothing about Caleb about this point, but we know a good amount. For one, the brother must've been a friendly guy if he had a palisman, named after pancakes no less.

Elsewhere and Elsewhen: We find out that Belos is Phillip from 400 years ago. Hunter is definitely a clone of that brother, especially when Luz discovers a small drawing of him which Phillip won't talk about. We still assume he died at eclipse lake, and at the end of the episode he has all he needs to make a grimwalker. Luz was slightly curious about this other figure in the picture, as Phillip never mentioned a companion in his journal. Of course, she drops it when he claims it's private. Doesn't think about it for a while.

Any sport in a storm: we find out the symbol of Gravesfield is the sigil of the Golden guard. Belos came from there, and associates his grimwalker's allegiance to be there as well. Also Flapjack gives the name Caleb to Hunter, so we can guess that the brother's name was Caleb.

So far, the protagonists know nothing except small hints that don't focus on.

Now onto reveals for the cast, and heavy ones for us.

Hollow Mind: The memory portraits spoke for themselves, screaming about how amazing Caleb was and how Belos is a monster. Some people were not sure if they were related yet, as Belos called him an old friend. They were friends as children at least, Caleb being slightly older, them rejoicing the witch hunting and playing witch hunter. Then Caleb met the witch, happily, and ended up in the boiling ilses, eventually Phillip followed, and found Caleb had fallen in love, and started a family with a witch. Some people assumed they both went there at the same time, but got separated. Everyone just jumped on the wittewife is a clawthorne theory for how similar she looks to the clawthorne ladies. Not to mention the portal being right behind the clawthorne house. Anyways, Phillip was furious, and despite everything (including Caleb accepting his condition, willing to live peacefully with him) Phillip couldn't stand it. It's debated whether he wished to kill Caleb or Evelyn, but the brothers ended up fighting to the death. Wittewife was furious, and blasted magic at him. Phillip eventually turned into Belos, making TONS of grimwalkers. This went beyond what we originally thought, where Hunter was the only one. Oh no, Belos wanted his brother back so much, he made him several times over, "destroying them" whenever they "betray him." More hints that Caleb was a good person, as Belos is evil and they all betrayed him. He calls them all a singular "he," which he is trying to remake someone who "betrayed" him, someone whose betrayals "hurt him." Luz asks Belos what Hunter is supposed to be, and Belos says "he's a better version of an old friend." He also says Hunter "Looks the most like him."

So the audience was wrong about Hunter being an ingredient, just someone Belos wants around. Also, this isn't his first rodeo, not in a long shot. Belos made and killed his brother several times.

What can Luz and Hunter gather from this? They didn't look at the portraits, but the golden guards sounded like Hunter, Belos says they all betrayed him, Hunter looks the most like him, and he's a better version of an old friend. They know what this guy sounded like, what he looks like, that he was close with Belos, but they had a falling out.

That's a brass tacks summary of Caleb. They also learned Belos is a witch hunter. Hunter will process that in his own time, Luz is dealing with her guilt of helping the one that's alive.

In labyrinth runners, Hunter did his research on Grimwalkers while on the lamb. He knows he's probably the only one to exist at the moment, and probably learns how they're made. Bone of ortet, he learns therefore he is a clone, made from the original's bones.

Clouds on the Horizon: Hunter details to Luz what he knows about himself. He's not sure if he's witch or human, but he knows he's a copy of someone (who was human), and considering Belos killed all the other grimwalkers for betrayal he probably killed the original too for the same reason. Hunter probably just doesn't know how the betrayal happened.

King's Tide: When confronted by Belos, Belos sees Flapjack and screams out Caleb's name. This confirms for us that the brother's name was Caleb. Also confirms for us that Flapjack did in fact belong to him. Of course, in the chaos of the moment, they probably didn't register the name, it was very garbled. On the other hand, Gus got a peek into Belos' mind and worst memories, he sees the memory portraits. In Labyrinth runners, it shows his spells play the memories like videos, so Gus probably got the flashback episode we wanted. The memories he sees: Phillip going to attack the couple, the fight, Caleb being dead, and the creation of the first Grimwalker. He probably learned that Caleb was swell (not wanting to fight his brother and being married to a witch), and Phillip killed him due to his bigotry. Yet he loved his brother, so he made the grimwalkers. Gus would probably feel very sorry for Hunter, mainly because of the purpose of his existence piled onto his hard life under Belos. Gus may have caught the name, who knows?

Thanks to Them: This is the closest we get to Wittebane lore. Hunter tells Luz he believes his original was a witch hunter like Belos, who hunted witches with him. Hunter probably assumed the betrayal happened but they were both evil. Hunter does his research on the Witch Hunters to try to find out what he can about his original. He probably finds out Caleb's name and relation to Belos, but the book probably described them hunting witches. He sees Caleb in a reflection (not sure how that happened, maybe Caleb was checking up on him, maybe there was a drawing in the book?) We see him sad, forlorn, and gaunt. Maybe the struggle of living in old Gravesfield had a toll on him that Belos didn't choose to remember. Flapjack finds a box under the floorboards of the shack, which confirms for us that the Wittebanes lived there. Of course, they probably wouldn't put together how Flapjack knew it was there, and Flapjack won't tell Hunter anything. Gus and Willow see the statue that looks like Hunter, and Gus confirms later he knew that was the statue of his original. Later the kids hear the historical legend of the Wittebanes. Caleb was the older brother, they became witch hunters to fit in with the town. The older brother was spirited away by a witch, after being dazzled by magic and another world and journeying between the two worlds a few times, (Puppet drops his pitchfork), Phillip ran off to save him and kill the witch, but never returned. Masha summs it up as Caleb getting a hot witch girlfriend and Phillip getting upset about it. Hunter puts it together that the rebus they found belonged to Caleb and Evelyn, as "the code the guide mentioned, it's a rebus. We found one in the shack." Hunter may have also put together that while Caleb was a witch hunter, he gave it up when he met Evelyn; he went to live with her, and Belos saw that as a betrayal and killed him. So he probably knows now that Caleb is not terrible, but he was still a Witch hunter. When confronting Belos, Belos implaes Flapjack after calling him Evelyn, that and the cardinal in the puppet show, the group might put together that Flapjack knew that couple from hundreds of years ago. Yet, they were also in shock from what was happening, so they might have had trouble processing it.

Not much more lore is explored, except for showing us that he feels guilty about killing Caleb and the Grimwalkers but we already knew that.

So Gus probably knows the most out of the entire group, and they can assume that Caleb wasn't evil, and who Hunter is supposed to be a copy of. Yet it doesn't matter, as Hunter is Hunter.

TL;DR Based on everything gathered, the hexsquad do know about Caleb and the fallout between him and Belos. They only thing they don't know is much about Evelyn. Just upset we didn't get that in flashback form. Yet we already knew about it too.

[sergeantsporks]

I’m about 95% certain you know what The Arofam Au is (a reverse of feathers and mud)

And I just wanted to ask how would the gilded fam react to the arofam versions of Philip, Caleb, and Hunter

This goes for any Good Parent Phillip AU, but: There's a lot of grief/rage over the fact that it was so possible for Phillip to not hurt them the way he did, that there are versions out there who didn't hurt them like that, and they got stuck with. Well. This one. Caleb is equal parts "whoa! A brother who doesn't suck! Sweet!" and "Hm! What did I do so bad that ours is Like This while yours is Like That?"

Evelyn's giving Hunter and Caleb both a Big Huge Hug. No one's QUITE sure what to think of this Caleb who... is sort of like them? I mean, arofam Eda is a lot less Crazy Evil than Belos, and Caleb is the ancestor rather than the grimwalker, but this sort of "I was the right hand man of the Big Bad and helped with that" bond is now. There.

Evelyn, Caleb, and arofam Caleb are bonding and talking about coping with the grief of losing your kid and living without them. They ARE questioning how come their line started a whole empire and did the ding dang cloning in the arofam universe. C'mon, arofam Caleb.

Hunter is just... weird for them. I mean, they're grimwalkers, but it's just... weird. You have a Good Uncle Belos AND Caleb as a dad. It's. Yeah, it's weird. Jason would be able to get the closest, because 1) he's Jason, and tbh, arofam Hunter and Jason are. Pretty similar in some ways. And 2) he's been to the human realm, so they share some common ground

[deizuwu]

Season 2 is definitely my favorite season. I absolutely adore Lake and Jesse's relationship with each other (with Jesslake being my OTP from the show) along with their friendship with Alan Dracula and how their characters progress. One of the best moments in the show was Jesse standing up to Grace and Simon to save Jessee. Him standing by while someone he cared about was mistreated was what landed him on the train so its only fitting that not making the same mistake is what gets him off the train (love me some parallels in stories). Though season 3 was also great and I legit screamed over Simon's death because it was incredibly brutal and just shocked me!

I haven't given the AU too much thought/dedicated time but I do have a Huntlow x Infinity Train AU idea. Willow would be a passenger with her running into Hunter who'd be a combination of Hazel + his Grimwalker origin in which Phillip has been on the train constantly trying to/creating clones of his brother with him also taking over the train. Those are just the basic concepts I've thought of though.

Yessss 100% about Jesse and Lake. I like how they went from complete strangers, one of whom wanted to get rid of the other, to each other's best friends (+Alan Dracula) And it's not like it came out of nowhere for them! They actually went out of their way to help the other at times, and it's very clear that they both started to care deeply about each other

And I never really thought about it before, but you're totally right about Jesse's character development. You really feel like he's earned his way out of the train, rather than just doing some random good deeds here and there. He's really grown by the time the end of the season comes around. 10/10 writing, good job infinity train writers

Also yes Simon's death was,, incredibly brutal. He even died in front of Grace and the other kids. Imagine the trauma. I'm genuinely surprised Cartoon Network allowed the creators to show his death, ON SCREEN no less

Your Huntlow Infinity Train AU sounds super interesting, I don't think I've heard of anyone else with a similar idea. Would Phillip be somewhat like Amelia? He knows that the more numbers he gets, the "worse" of a person he is, but he just doesn't care. I feel he would definitely be covered head to toe with the numbers, like Simon after he pushed Grace off the train.

I'm interested in hearing more about your AU if you get around to tying down any more details!!

[thetombedspirit]

New OWL HOUSE Theory!

Now, the newest episode reveals a bit more lore to the series. It gave us Vee and the backstory of the Basilisks, it gave us the “In-Between” and an insight to the portal. It gave us Luz’s hometown, Gravesfield, and it gave us a little more backstory about Phillip Whittbane, more so about how he had a brother and that they both ended up stuck in the Demon Realm.

Now, these brothers are important. Not just to the story, but to Luz’s hometown, Gravesfield. According to the wiki, Gravesfield was a ‘peaceful’ colony in the 1600s, until the brothers ‘mysteriously disappeared’. I mean, they have a statue of themselves standing in town.

Now, I probably won’t be the first to tell you this, but the statue on the right looks like he could be Phillip Whittbane, the man who looked for a way out of the Demon Realm and documented it in his diary. 

The statue on the left, is his brother, who has yet to be named or touched upon (though I have a theory of what his name is;))

Now, the Phillip statue doesn’t just look like, well, Phillip. But he also looks eerily like someone else. Someone we already now a good bit.

Belos.

I bet if someone were to edit most of his hair and his boils out of the way, he would look a lot like the Phillip Statue.

And in terms of the brother, he also looks like someone we already know.

I mean, the statue basically looks like a Hunter in his early 30s at least. And that’s not all I want to talk about.

Now, theories have been blowing up about who Belos was and who the brothers are to the Demon Realm. And I’m not the first to speculate who Belos and Hunter are.

But in order to touch onto that, I need to draw back and dive into another theory I believe to be canon.

Ever since Eclipse Lake, everyone has been speculating that Hunter could be a Grimwalker.

Now, no-one is particularity sure what a Grimwalker is, but the common theory is that a Grimwalker is a sort of artificial clone that requires a few ingredients that we’ve already seen in season 2.

The Galdorstone = heart and power, Palistrom wood = keratin, Stonesleeper lungs = ?, Selkidomus scales = ?, Bone of ortet = ?

And not only that, but one key detail that the page shows is that the Grimwalker has pinkish-red eyes. Kinda like...

Yeah, like Hunter. And despite looking like a witch (pointed ears) he doesn’t have any magic, and needs a staff in order to perform magic. He struggled teleporting the first few tries when he started using Rascal as his staff, but soon got into the grove of it once his mind was on the fight. Who else can’t do magic without a staff?

Luz needed to use a staff (Owlbert) in order to activate the glyphs on the door without doing it manually like she usually does (tapping the glyph to activate)

Is it coincidence, or is there a reason Hunter can’t perform magic normally like Willow or Amity can?

So here’s the theory.

Belos is Phillip and Hunter is a Grimwalker clone of Phillip’s brother, who I suspect was also named Hunter.

When I first watched ‘Eclipse Lake’, I genuinely felt, through Belos’ gestures and expressions towards Hunter, that he genuinely cared about him and his safety. I was since disabused of this notion and reminded that Belos is an abusive man, through and through, but I do think he cares about Hunter.

But I think he cares more about controlling Hunter and his interests.

Let’s look back at the photo of the picture.

In possession of one brother, the one on the right, you can see that in his left hand he’s holding a piece of paper with a circle drawn in, much like glyphs and in another we can faintly see that he’s holding a weird looking staff. It doesn’t seem to have an animal on it like the typical witch’s staff.

Kinda like Belos and Hunter’s 1st staff.

Now, in ‘Yesterday’s Lie’, we learned that Belos is the experimentive type. I mean, he made the staffs in the first place, right? Claiming them to be pure magic. And he brought the Basilisks back from extinction in order to perform experiments. Mostly, how they draw out and consume magic.

Not only does this show that Belos is capable of creating artificial life, but that he’s also planning something that includes drawing out ones magic and consuming it.

Tell me, when Belos needs a recharge, what does he do?

He draws out and consumes the magic of the Palismen. Just like how Basilisks consume magic from witches.

While his methods are much to be desired, he appears to be a kind of inventor or scientist. I mean, just look at how he’s repairing the door.

Now, Phillip seems to be a philosopher. His writings and diary entries imply he’s a educated man, a thinker.

And now to his brother, who, from now on, I’m calling Hunter Sr.

Hunter Sr. is depicted shaking hands with someone who bares a faint likeness to Principle Bump (possibly a wild witch). This could indicate that he’s rather friendly with the natives of the Demon Realm.

But that’s not the interesting part for me. It’s what’s perched on his shoulder.

A bird. And that bird looks awful familiar.

Yep, Hunter’s Cardinal, Rascal. And remember, Rascal originally belonged to someone else, as he was once one of the many abandoned Palismen in the Bat Queen’s care, and it is implied that he has been with her for a long time.

Now, Hunter Sr is certainly older then the Hunter we know, and based on the body language of the statues, Hunter Sr seems to be more assertive, poised confidently and looking ready to lead, while Phillip seems to be more of a follower then a leader.

From what we’ve gathered here, Grimwalkers seem to be raised from infancy, and if Hunter is 16 like it has been said, then that could tie into why Palismen wood is so hard to come by. And it would make a bit of sense that Hunter couldn’t do magic without a staff if he was a copy of a human man. Human’s don’t have bile sacks like witches and most demons do. Hunter may look like a witch, but he’s not a witch. He’s a human that just looks witch-like.

And Belos hates wild magic with a passion. He won’t even let Hunter mention, despite what an advantage it would be to study Wild Magic would be (know thy enemy, ya know?)

Anyway, here is what I think happened to the brothers and how Phillip became Belos.

So they end up in the demon realm. Not sure how, not sure why. And they try to find a way back home, and as they do, they learn a lot about the demon realm and it’s diverse culture and methods, with Hunter Sr even making a Palismen with the help of a Wild Witch, whilst Phillip makes his own form of magic by studying the glyphs. This may cause the brothers to quarrel as Hunter Sr appears absolutely taken by this world while all Phillip wants to do is return home.

Eventually, they try to find Eclipse Lake, and something happens. Something involving Wild Magic, or maybe not involving it at all, but none the less, Hunter Sr looses his life as a result and maybe leaves Belos cursed. Belos blames wild magic (perhaps the witch betrayed them, perhaps not and Belos is just looking for someone to blame)

Eventually, Phillip rises to power and becomes Emperor Belos. He hasn’t given up his goal of returning to earth, but now he also plans his revenge by outlawing all wild magic and planning to eradicate it once and for all. He plans the Day of Unity, he creates the coven system and silences anyone who calls out his abusive rule.

Eventually, he successfully creates a Grimwalker of his deceased brother. And not only that, but now he has Hunter under his control, has him thinking that Wild Magic is dangerous and savage and can not be trusted. Not only does he have his brother back, so to speak, but he also has him coming around to his way of thinking.

Though that cycle may break, thanks to a return of an old friend, Hunter’s Palismen.

Anyway that’s all I got so far. Belos is Phillip, Hunter is a Grimwalker fashioned to look like Phillip’s deceased brother and Rascal is Hunter Sr’s old palismen. Anyway, let me know what you think.

[aspen-fall]

Now forgive me if I'm wrong but-

I think I'm right.

[jajanvm-imbi]

K so Jacob Hopkins is definitely a descendant of the Wittebane family and this definitely gonna be a plot point in ToH S3

I've seen other people mention this but I wanna add to it. (I'm not even joking I wrote this like 3 months ago and completely forgot about it)

First of all, Jacob was the one to introduce the idea of the Wittebros into the show in the first place. He's the one who gave us context.

He's also the conspiracy theory guy. He's basically the modern day witch hunter. He refers to the Demon Realm as a "realm of evil" and how he can "protect humanity" from this evil. Sound familiar?

Second of all, their appearance.

I think at this point we all understand that the ToH crew make decisions about visual elements very carefully. They choose everything they include for a reason, and that's the fun in watching this show lol.

The reason why were able to safely assume that Hunter is a clone/grimwalker of Caleb was because of their appearance. Even before we saw the paintings of what Caleb looked like, people were able to piece together how Hunter was a grimwalker of Caleb and how Belos was actually Phillip by their facial structure and their hair.

Observe:

Jacob's hair goes back in the same way Hunter and Caleb's does and has the same hairline as all three Wittebanes, but its brown like Phillip's hair. He also has the lil hair strand sticking out in the front like Caleb, Hunter, and Phillip do.

Jacob's nose is most like Hunter's and Caleb's, but it still goes out a little bit towards the tip like Phillip's.

Jacob has Hunter and Caleb's strong jawline and chin, but he also has his lil goatee which could be a nod to Phillip's beard in Elsewhere and Elsewhen.

Jacob has Caleb's eye shape and Phillip's eye color.

Their appearances are all too similar for it to be a coincidence. Like I said before, the ToH team loves to give these visual clues to help the audience piece together what's going to happen, at least with the Wittebane plotline, way before anything is confirmed within the universe of the show.

The fandom was right about Hunter being a grimwalker, being a grimwalker of Phillip's brother specifically, Phillip being Belos, and that Phillip's brother was named Caleb (well that one is all but explicitly stated but it's pretty much canon at this point). I'm positive the fandom is right about Caleb falling in love with a mystery witch and their family became the Clawthornes, and most of these theories were based in visual elements alone (the exception being Caleb's name)

While I feel like its very very likely that Jacob is a descendant of the Wittebanes, its obvious that he isn’t a descendant of Phillip or Caleb. The Wittebros both got stuck on the BI at the same time and never made it back. Its heavily implied that Caleb’s family became the Clawthornes, and its never indicated if Phillip ever had a family of his own or not, I think its unlikely. So what? A third Wittebane brother? A sister? A cousin? My guess is that ToH is gonna pull a Gravity Falls and reveal an additional sibling, (The Stan twins + Shirley who was later revealed to be the grandmother of the Pines twins which explained how Stan and Ford were both uncles in In a Tale of Two Stans) during the backstory episode that explains how Jacob could be related to the Wittebane family. 

Since Jacob is very similar to Phillip, and it’s implied in the season finale that Belos is still alive through the sludge gloop thing and got to the human relam via Hunter’s back, then its very likely that they would team up in the human realm to destroy the BI and “save humanity from evil”. 

The Hexsquad are also in the human realm, and they are undoubtedly going to do research on the Wittebanes to see how the Wittebros got to the Demon Realm in the first place so they can find a way back. This is certainly going to lead them to the Gravesfield Historical Society, where Jacob Hopkins works. And even though Luz doesn’t like and/or trust him for what he did to Vee, he obviously knows a lot on the subject, which could be very useful for their research. He might also be aware of his own ancestry, which would explain his obsession with them.  

Cue Jacob and the Hexsquad piecing together how Hunter looks exactly like Caleb, the Hexsquad finding out Jacob is a descendant of the Wittebanes (a family of witch hunters), Jacob finding out that everyone in the Hexsquad is a witch (except for Luz), Belos is also probably there like a devil on Jacob’s shoulder or something, and conflict ensues for the Hexsquad in the human realm. 

Anyway this is just my two cents on the matter, I am very excited to see how S3 will play out with the very little time they have to wrap up the story. What do ya’ll think? Feel free to add any other observations too!

[friend0f0wlsandtitans]

I want to talk about this promo art a little bit

First, Luz. Right away I can sense her keeping to herself, pushing everyone out. Holding herself close as if she feels too scared to open up to anyone in the fear that they will abandon her. I've noticed that the way Luz deals with traumatic events is by first blaming herself, getting emotional, and then she gets angry and very protective, and then (from what I've seen from promo shots and art) she seems to be numb. She's bottled up her feelings for so long that she can't feel them correctly anymore. She always brushes off her own feelings to help other people and all that is catching up to her. Almost like when you grab a hose and block the water from coming out. It starts building up but you keep on squeezing it because you don't want to let go and let all those emotions out, but eventually they all start building up and it gets to be so much that it just bursts. I think that is exactly what has happened to Luz. She has shoved aside her feelings so many times that it just built up for months, maybe even years. And now she is having to deal with all of them. And it seems like her way of dealing with them is by isolation, pushing everyone away. What she needs is just someone to be there for her (also a lot of therapy). I speak from experience when I say that if she has someone that doesn't let her push them away, someone that will stick by her side even when she may get angry at them or just angry at the world in general, she will eventually be able to let them in. It takes time, a lot of time. But Luz has so many people around her who love her and are willing to listen, she just has to have the realization that these people won't hate her, that she can be her true self around them, that she doesn't have to push them all away. Now for Hunter To me it seems like he's scared, like he's in denial of his entire existence. And this definitely has to do with the fact he is a grimwalker, a clone. He feels like he's not his own person, he's having a full on identity crisis. It doesn't help that he is cloned after his abusers dead brother, though he doesn't know that yet. From the Season Three intro we now know that Hunter has now seen Celeb, the person he was cloned after. After seeing that he immediately cut his hair to look less like him. He wants to be his own person but i think he is really struggling with that. I have a feeling he might see even more visions of Celeb, maybe even have flashbacks or nightmares. By him covering his ears in this art, it's saying as if he doesn't want to hear anymore things about being a grimwalker, a clone. He is overwhelmed by all this information he's almost trying to shield himself from it. I think that all this shit that the both of them are going through is almost bringing them together. Because Hunter is the only one that knows about Luz helping Phillip, and Luz is the only one that knows Hunter is a grimwalker (besides Belos of course) So in a way, they feel as if they can talk to each other about it, which i think will be very helpful for both parties. One way or another though, the gang will find out. I definitely don't think they will be in any way mad at Luz or Hunter like they both think they will be. They will be accepting and kind and understanding because that's just who they are. If anything they will just be disappointed that Luz and Hunter felt like they couldn't tell them and that if they did they would hate them. I want to see Luz just sob in her mom and friends arms, she deserves it. And same goes to Hunter. They need a really big long hug and to be told that it's okay and that they will always be loved. (and again, lots of therapy)

[riaria93]

Owl House 2x10: Yesterday’s Lie Spoilers

It’s theory time.

Okay, so we know now after the newest episode that Phillip had a brother that went with him to the Boiling Isles. One who looks very familiar.

And then Phillip’s statue is familiar.

And then there’s this book with a very familiar Cardinal on one of the brother’s shoulders.

Now, we theorize that Hunter is a grimwalker. Which explains why Little Rascal chose him.

And if Belos is Phillip’s grimwalker then Hunter is most likely a clone of this brother which makes Hunter calling him Uncle the truth. If that’s the truth maybe Belos did indeed lose his brother to wild magic…at Eclipse Lake where we know Phillip was the only one of his group to survive. We know spells bounce off the veins of the Titan, even decaying ones. What if a glyph or spell, some kind of wild magic was used and it killed Phillip’s brother. It’s that or the Fool’s Blood. Either way. I want to mention this scene.

“This is my grave.” Umm, yeah. What if that really is where the brother is buried? That scene was bad enough already but suddenly Little Rascal desperately pulling Hunter up takes on an even darker meaning.

[rolling-harbinger]

Here’s an idea:

In this book in Eclipse Lake it tells us what Grimwalkers are made of. One of the ingredients being Palistrom wood.

Belos consumes the magic of Palismen, which are made out of Palistrom wood.

Belos wanting to kill Hunter has been brought up time and time again these recent episodes. But wouldn’t it be crazy if the way Belos “kills” Hunter is through his methods of killing Palismen because Hunter is made of the same stuff as Palismen?

It would be very symbolic too. Hunter made his first friendship with a Palismen, and we have seen him develop greatly because of it. Due to this Hunter has become greatly afraid of not only his Palismen from dying at the hands of Belos, but other Palismen as well. He starts to feel guilt and regret for ever helping Belos with killing all of those Palismen. It would then be so symbolic for Hunter to “die”, somethings he’s always feared, in the same way his uncle has killed hundreds of Palismen.

Now I put quotations around “die” because I don’t think the show will ever truly permanently kill off Hunter. But I could see it happening temporarily because of how much the show has played around with the idea of Hunters death.

But how would he be brought back to life? Well if he was a normal witch he wouldn’t have been able to be brought back to life, but he was created. He is a magic being, a clone, a grimwalker. He was created through ingredients. Maybe the protagonists can find a way to use those same ingredients to bring him back to life.

Throughout season 2 the ingredients for Grimwalkers have been shown and or brought up. Now a lot of people have theorized that this has to do with Belos wanting to create a new Grimwalker, but I don’t buy that. The ingredients weren’t ever gained or collected by Belos, these ingredients were found by our protagonists. Yes, Belos wanted Hunter to kill a selkidomus, but Hunter never actually got the scales.

And unlike Belos who never was shown to have current access to these items throughout season 2, our protagonists have. Luz and Eda are friendly with the selkidomus so they can possibly get some scales, Gus knows where the galdorstones are and is friends with the protector of them, Eda and King have been shown to get Palistrom wood and have given it to Luz, and Luz and Lilith can have access to stonesleeper lungs because they know where they can find a dead stonesleeper from their adventures in the time pools. The bone of Ortet is theorized to be a bone of Phillips brothers body, who Hunter is supposed to be a clone of. That’s the only ingredient that hasn’t been explicitly shown, except for the possibly of this body in this image could be the brother:

To recap, my little idea for the future is that Hunter may “die” from Belos similar to the way he has killed Palismen, but he would be brought back to life with the help of the protagonists he has made a friendship with by using the same ingredients that created him.

Overall. This will probably never happen and I am probably reaching really far out right now, but I just thought it’d be a fun idea worth sharing.

[shera-princess-of-power]

so um, why was the collector in Eda’s dream of all places in Knock Knock Knockin’ and Hooty’s Door? They seemed to want to hunt her and/or the owl beast down. If he is after the owl beast then they must have somehow lost it to the sea or something like shown in the dream. The collector is all about moon symbolism and owls are known as THE night bird. Birds are a symbol of the Clawthorne family. Hunter has the same bird as Phillip’s brother probably because he is his grimwalker clone. The pregnant woman seen with Phillip’s brother looks a whole lot like a Clawthorne to me. Is this just more proof that Eda’s family is a lot more connected in this whole mess than she thinks? interesting. My brain hurts.

[3-frogs-in-a-trenchcoat]

guys after hunter managed to get rid of belos, he says “you dare stab me in the back, Caleb?!” that’s the SECOND time belos has called hunter Caleb

Hes become unable to differentiate between caleb and hunter. He created hunter to “bring back” his brother and have some form of post-portem control over him; he’s hopscoting between the stages of acceptance and serious denial. He knows he killed him for a righteous reason yet he treats him as if he’s alive at any opportunity he gets. He arguably never saw the grimwalkers as equals to Caleb yet kept trying to force them to be replacements. So once hunter left him WITH Caleb’s palisman, made for him by the person that for him turned his brother to the dark side, the two truly fused in his mind to become exactly one and the same. One could argue that the “Caleb!!” was meant to reference the reminder of flapjack but no it was directed at hunter; belos already saw Caleb standing before him, against him once more

And the actual question asked: you DARE stab me in the back? Hunter had long ago betrayed belos: if not forced to do it in hollow mind then absolutely in king’s tide. In hollow mind, Phillip is fully aware hunter did not want to leave but tries to kill him anyways, as he did the others, and in kings tide, seeing the unique factor in hunters betrayal, he begins to confuse the two and with it comes the same conviction that he can turn him back, even if possession is what it takes. The stabbing in the back, how belos killed his brother, is equal to hunter telling him he never wants to serve him again and he must be having flashbacks to Caleb telling him he wanted to stay on the boiling isles. But while hunter explicitly told him to fuck off, it’s doubtful caleb said something to that end. To the contrary, Caleb must have begged Philip to stay with him, like how hunter begged to stay with belos in hm. Both pleas were ignored and punished. So it takes hunter explicitly telling him what he wants to do with his future, carving palismen and leaving the emperors coven (which I’m sure is similar to what Caleb must have told his brother back then) for phillip to register a betrayal that equates to Caleb’s and that merits extreme measures.

And luz responding “you did it first”. Belos has no comeback to that. Again, he doesn’t give two fucks about anything he may be wrong about, and he’s aware there’s plenty. Furthermore, HOW does luz respond that. As far as I’m aware she and hunter, much less the others, have no way of knowing the wittebanes’ story, unless they were paying attention to the old portraits, which is the audience is informed of the backstory. They only enter the portraits having to do with belos’ deceit, none about his past. The rest of the time is dedicated to the grimwalker revelation and Caleb is only referred to as “him” (“you were the one that looked most like him”) and his name is first relevantly mentioned in kings tide. Hunter learned he is clone of someone through this research on grimwalkers and infers his original is someone close to Belos and therefore a witch hunter, which we know is not true. The first time the partial story is told to the characters is in the truck ride and everyone should have the same context and information to fill in the blanks and to be unaware of a brother in the situation. They know about belos, but not Caleb in anything but name. So either one of two things happened: luz heard the story and connected the brother in the legend to one of Phillip’s companions, the drawing in the journal, the person of which hunter is cloned and the name Caleb and, knowing belos was addressing hunter as is he was caleb, responded by saying he literally stabbed his brother in the back first OR took the “caleb” as referring to something else and meant he metaphorically stabbed hunter first by trying to kill him and pushing him away. or yknow both.

And I also wanna talk about the graveyard were the fight took place bc between the altar appearance and the sitio of the golden guard in the entrance arc, I’m betting so much it’s an unmarked grave to Caleb. Seeing as how the portal door was passed down though the clawthornes and ended up buried in their backyard, Caleb and Evelyn could have been the first to own it. Maybe Caleb had time to bury or hide it himself broke his brother came for him. The point is belos is just sick enough to go back before caleb was even dead and secretly build a grave to an idealized version of him in the human world, like some form of “the caleb I knew died already by not coming back with me”. the sigil then becomes not the symbol of the golden guard but the symbol of gravesfield turned into a brand that marks the golden guards, the grimwalkers of his brother, property of the human world, a tool to be used by belos to conquer witches in the name of humanity. Of course once caleb was dead, Phillip lost his access to go back and declare his death blamed on the witches, which he probably planned to do, instead looking for his own door and conquest of the boiling isles for himself. It doesn’t explain the stash of titans blood with an owl cap. Maybe Caleb put it there himself in case he was forcefully dragged out by Phillip and needed to go back, the hill was a significant place for them; Caleb buried his plan b there and Phillip unaware build the altar there.

[orangeypopsicle]

Philip had to have had some fucked up semblance of affection for his brother. Both from his reaction from being forced to revisit Caleb’s death and why he keeps the grimwalkers around.

He would have benefited from a pawn for his plans, but it didn’t need to have been a clone of Caleb specifically. He most certainly didn’t need to have made a repeated clone of Caleb that many times. If grimwalkers are born as a blank slate that lacked the memories of the original person, then Philip could’ve chosen to make a grimwalker from any dead person.

It might’ve been from the hatred of his brother for loving witches as well? As The Collector said, “I feel like you create those things just to destroy them”. Perhaps Philip wanted to recreate Caleb, but as a version that he can mold as he pleased? That’s probably why his first instinct at seeing that Hunter had Flapjack was to kill him. It was time to start all over again.

Was Phillip going to bring the new grimwalker to the Human Realm if he had succeeded? He implied he was going to make another after Hunter died. He wanted everything to return to how things were when he was a child with his loving older brother before getting sent to the Demon Realm so badly, like, holy shit.

[daisy-chains-gentle-rains]

!!Owl House Spoilers!!

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Okay- Hunter is a clone/grimwalker of Caleb Wittebane, aka Phillip/Belos' brother. Caleb fell in love with a witch and Phllip is a witch hunter.

Hunter loves Willow.

Willow is a witch.

Dana had a suspicious reaction to a fan's question about Huntlow.

Is something bad gonna happen to Willow?!?!

[littlemisssquiggles]

I’m starting to think that perhaps the reason why Belos is so hell-bent on ensuring Hunter’s death as opposed to simply creating another Grimwalker to replace him is due less in part to him making certain Hunter doesn’t blow his whole “witch-Hunter” true identity but more so because Belos simply cannot create more than one Grimwalker at a time.

Think about it. If Belos is capable of cloning someone via magical means then what’s stopped him from literally crafting a full army of Grimwalkers in the past?

So my hunch is that after he had killed his brother in the past as Phillip Wittebane, Belos harvested one of his brother’s bones and it’s that very same bone he’s been using over and over again to keep “resurrecting” him essentially. My theory is that once he’s realized his current Grimwalker is a failure, Belos simply kills him off and salvages his brother’s bone from said Walker which he then uses again to create another Grimwalker in the predecessor’s place.

That’s my small theory. Even if Belos plans on killing Hunter, he still needs him to harvest the original bone of the ortet he needs for another Grimwalker. That’s my thoughts on that. Of all the things that I personally took away from today’s new episode (the really messed up Why-Did-I-Get-Married toxic relationship of the Blight Couple, the Lumity first kiss and confirmation that they actually haven’t gone on their first date yet, that cute Huntlow crumb of Willow being the first person to take the initiative to go save Hunter when she thought he was kidnapped by Kikimora, more proof that Belos is manipulating the poor, poor Kid Collector and taking advantage of his loneliness and longing for freedom, etc), this is the one that caught my interest the most because I found it really interesting how Belos reacted to Kid Collector’s comment about creating another Grimwalker.

Kind of felt like the ToH team was answering all the theories about the prospect of Hunter potentially running into another “twin brother” Golden Guard down the line for S3. Just wanted to make this point.

~LittleMissSquiggles (2022)